Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: shaef on August 13, 2010, 12:41:05 AM
-
There is a protocol usually observed whenever a manager is sacked or resigns, whereby his heartbroken former players weep openly about their sad loss.
Clearly nobody has pointed this out to Barry Bannan.
The Aston Villa midfielder was far from distraught when word reached him that Martin O’Neill had elected to leave the Midlands club and had little problem with anyone knowing how he felt, somewhat euphemestically admitting that he had felt “a little bit happy”.
It had become apparent to Bannan that while O’Neill remained in charge there was little chance of him ever making the breakthrough at Villa. Although still just 20 and surrounded by a squad full of internationalists, the Scotland under-21 player felt he had earned the right to feature more often.
After spending last season on loan at Blackpool, it was O’Neill’s intention that Bannan returned there for the start of the new campaign but that move is on hold for now while Villa continue their search for a new manager. The player now hopes it was the lucky break he was holding out for.
“The gaffer has left now so it will be a fresh start for everyone at the club,” he said. “I was stalling [on his future] as I didn’t think I was going to ever get my chance with him in charge. I wouldn’t say I was joyful that he left as I got on well with him to speak to but I got never got my chance so, yeah, you could say I was a little bit happy.
“I was on the touchline watching the under-21 boys train when I started getting lots of text messages through on my phone. I was shocked in a way but, looking back, in our pre-season games he wasn’t as hands-on as normal. He was sitting back and hardly got out of his seat to say anything to the players.
“If you add that all up, he was acting a bit differently. He wasn’t the Martin O’Neill that we knew, but we still didn’t think he would walk out like that. He was close to going at the end of last season to Liverpool and either it fell through or he sorted out his differences [with the Villa board] so we thought he was going to stay.”
Promisingly for Bannan, the new caretaker manager is Kevin McDonald, a fellow Scot formerly in charge of the Villa reserve side in which Bannan once shone. McDonald has already turned down an approach from Blackpool to take Bannan back for another loan spell – a promising sign, the player hopes.
“Blackpool came back in for me and he [McDonald] told them ‘no’ which is a good thing as if I wasn’t going to feature in his plans he would have let me go. That’s a positive thing at the minute.
“Kevin knows me better than the gaffer did. He tried to tell the gaffer before to give me a chance but he [O’Neill] is his own man and shrewd. But under [McDonald] I should get a better chance as he knows my game inside out from all those years with the reserve team.
“I’m thinking really positively as I got on really well with him. He’s going to take the next couple of games until we get a new manager, and when the new man comes in I will look to impress him.”
Bannan is fiercely determined to establish himself at Villa Park but would rather go out on loan again if he is likely to be stuck on the fringes once more. “We’ve got a small squad at the moment and you have to register 25 players for the new season and I think I’ll be among that 25.
“If they sell the likes of James Milner then that would enhance my chances. If I was going to be on the bench and coming on, then fine. But if I was sitting on the bench and not getting a sniff then I’d rather go and play 90 minutes at another club, even if it were back in the Championship.
“To go back to Villa and just sit on the bench, get 15 minutes here and there, and play in reserve games would be hard.”
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/english-football/scotland-youngster-barry-bannan-is-shedding-few-tears-over-martin-o-neill-s-aston-villa-exit-1.1047987
-
oh larf. even the players knew he'd set his heart on going to liverpool
-
I hope Bannan gets a chance or two. Think he good be good.
I don't understand though why he was "watching the under-21s train" - assume he means Scotland under-21s... why wasn't he taking part in training? And why is he allowed to have his phone on during training, I thought that was a big no-no at most clubs?
-
It really is all starting to come out now. And it is only three days since he went.
-
Pretty damning, is't it?
Particularly with the reports that the Liverpool interest was all one way, him coveting them rather than the other way round.
-
I had no idea he was actually close to going to Dipperville.
-
He wasn't.
But he wanted to go.
-
He wanted to go to a club with tight financial constraints?
Erm...
-
I had no idea he was actually close to going to Dipperville.
As i hinted at the time, my ITK told me Dalglish wanted him. spoke to him, dotted the i's, but then the yanks said "hell no". would explain the "i don't know if i'll be here" statements at the end of the season and then the about turn. Him taking the villa job was all about getting a better job basically
-
I had no idea he was actually close to going to Dipperville.
As i hinted at the time, my ITK told me Dalglish wanted him. spoke to him, dotted the i's, but then the yanks said "hell no". would explain the "i don't know if i'll be here" statements at the end of the season and then the about turn. Him taking the villa job was all about getting a better job basically
On reflection, I think MON losing out on the Liverpool job is when he lost his enthusiasm for Villa.
On further reflection, I wish he'd got that Liverpool job.
-
Then we could have got Hodgson.
-
In fairness to greg he did say MON wanted to go to Liverpool.
The way things have ended up, I wish he had.
-
I dunno if that was the case originally Greg -us being a stepping stone and all that.
His stock was exceptionally high at the time he joined us, he was regularly being linked with all the top jobs and being put forward as a possible successor to Fergie.
For us to get him at the time was a major coup, and he perhaps thought he could achieve most of his ambitions here -with more control than he'd get at the very elite clubs. There is a quote from him long before he pitched up here (back in 1991 IIRC) that someone on this site had as their tagline. Can't remember exactly how it goes, but it suggests he held the club in high regard. At least at some point in the distant past.
But maybe it dawned on him last year that he wasn't going to crack it at Villa (not to say that another manager couldn't) and he wanted one of the elite clubs on his CV. He's not getting any younger, afterall. None of the others would have been daft enough to go for him, lets face it. But Liverpool were in a bind, that was his 'in.'
Even they steered clear though. Shame.
I wonder how long it would have taken for him to start making sly digs at the support from the magnificent Kop, and I wonder whether his monkey mates on MOTD would have still defended him to the hilt.
-
Dunno, maybe my opinion is coloured by subsequent events.. his head was definetely turned this summer though. My ITK is related to a member of the famous ex-boot room staff and he really, really didn't want MON, so he had no reason to make it up. MON has always struck me as ruthlessly ambitious and mebbe he saw this as his last chance especially if he'd been told to cut back on spending. Cant help feeling Lerner's been taken for a ride
-
*Cloughie stereotype alert* Could be that he viewed us as a somewhat bigger Nottingham Forest and the challenge was to upset the natural order. And for the first 18 months-2 years that was motivation enough.
Agree with your latter point though.
-
Barring Celtic, I don't think MON will get to manage as big a club as us ever again. Serves the stubborn sod right.
-
They really are coming out of the woodwork. Shorey has his say too..
NICKY SHOREY'S MARTIN O'NEILL HELL AT ASTON VILLA
NICKY SHOREY is delighted to have escaped the silent treatment from Martin O’Neill and jumped the sinking ship at Aston Villa. Shorey, 29, was frozen out by former Villa manager O’Neill – but says he was never given an explanation why.
The new Albion left-back won’t shed any tears about his old boss being out of work and does not know if he’d shake his hand if he saw him again. O’Neill spent £5m to sign Shorey from Reading in 2008 – but after a handful of games last season he booted him out of the starting line-up. And Shorey knew the writing was on the wall before Villa splashed out £8m on Stephen Warnock as his replacement.
“I didn’t get an explanation from the manager but I knew what the score was,” he said. “I had high hopes when I went to Villa, but sometimes things don’t work out. At the start of last season I was enjoying it and playing well. I felt fit. The manager makes his decisions. That’s life.”
Ex-skipper Curtis Davies, who was transfer-listed by O’Neill, has accused the Ulsterman, who quit the club on Monday, of favouritism. And Shorey said: “That says it all. I just want to forget about Villa now. I’d rather keep my opinions to myself and look to the future.” Shorey was loaned to Fulham and Nottingham Forest last season and was slapped on the transfer list in the summer. He couldn’t wait to get away from the club before O’Neill, 58, announced his shock resignation.
“I was glad to play for England and I’d like to do it again,” he said. “I want to concentrate on playing for West Brom and hopefully it’ll be a successful season. It was fine being up for sale. I wasn’t playing so I had no qualms whatsoever. I wanted to be playing and enjoy my football. I wanted to be somewhere where I had the chance to be playing every week. That’s all I’m looking for, a fair crack of the whip.”
-
The more that things come out, the more I'm beginning to really dislike this petulant, childish, spiteful, thin-skinned and devious little man. I'm beginning to think that the only difference between him and DOL is that MON was a little more intelligent, although perhaps not quite as intelligent as he'd like to think. Both were self-serving egotistical phonies with very little regard for our club. And the way he left us means that MON just edges it as the least palatable. I really hope more people come out of the woodwork, show him up for what he really is, and go some way to destroying the self-engineered MON myth.
-
I think most of us who saw him would feel that Shorey lacked the quality to be our regular left back. He always struck me as a good player on the ball but did not possess the positional sense (being beaten by balls played inside him) or attitude that he would take 5 stitches and get hurt to stop a goal, which is one thing I loved about Mark Delaney. And I saw his petulance at being subbed away at Fulham in May 2009 when he was very poor and would have happily battered him for that. If choosing Warnock over Shorey is favouritism I'm glad MON had that. I would criticise the initial purchase of Shorey, not the fact he chose to replace him.
I think Davies and Laursen were a good pairing and I would like Davies to stay at the Villa - he is a decent young-ish player and can still improve. I rarely remember him letting us down big-style, though as Percy has pointed out on here, he is not the ball playing centre half people somehow believe him to be. None of us last season were clamouring for Davies to replace Dunne / Collins / Cuellar because they were so poor.
As for Bannan, we don't see too much Championship football here in Shanghai so I can't comment on his ability. My single memory of him was away in Moscow and that is an unfair basis for judgement.
So three players who were not regular first teamers criticise the manager. In my eyes it's not exactly proof he had lost the dressing room. I'm more upset at the comment in the article that Shorey "jumped the sinking ship at Aston Villa". Now that does upset me.
-
I've said before about MON not being a people person and after all the talk of him being a man motivator was clearly bollocks.
Just makes me even more happy he's gone
-
I've said before about MON not being a people person and after all the talk of him being a man motivator was clearly bollocks.
Just makes me even more happy he's gone
This is what Bannan said about him: I wouldn’t say I was joyful that he left as I got on well with him to speak to but I got never got my chance so, yeah, you could say I was a little bit happy.
He "got on well with him to speak to". Coupled with that, he sent him out to get experience and sounds as though MON was looking to do the same again at least at the start of this season. If he'd come back from 3 months there and was then integrated into the team, I'd have said MON had done a pretty good job motivating him.
There's an awful lot of revisionism going on, in my humble opinion.
EDIT: Or what Pat McMahon said. I'd have happily kicked Shorey's useless arse off the pitch at Fulham. That's why you were dropped and ignored, you useless tw*t. I'm just disappointed it wasn't him that MON allegedly throttled.
-
"Out of favour players hold grudge/ think they should be in the team "shock"........."
MON's results speak for themselves, the best consecutive three year league results of any Villa post ww2 manager.
I do accept though that the evidenceis mounting that MON would have done everyone a favour by resigning at the end of last season - rather than the beginning of this.
-
I'm more upset at the comment in the article that Shorey "jumped the sinking ship at Aston Villa". Now that does upset me.
It's from the Daily Star so I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it!
-
I don't think the fact that 3 players who MON didnt play because they weren't good enough having a go at him now means a whole lot.
And how would Barry Bannan, who was at loan at Blackpool, know how close he was or wasn't to joining Liverpool?
-
Take your point, Jonzy but if someone on here said that they were ITK due to knowing a current player, would you trust that source? I think I would.
-
Bless little Barry Bannan. hope hes gets a look in at some point.
-
i think Liverpool were very interested in MON, but were a bit taken aback with the out cry from Liverpool fans,
they were swamping the radio stations and forums with stuff about 'long ball' and shit football, saying they wouldnt put up with it.
i think Liverpool thought better of it and changed to Hodgson,
i wonder if the same thing will happen with the Bob Bradley thing happening at the moment
-
I don't think the fact that 3 players who MON didnt play because they weren't good enough having a go at him now means a whole lot.
And how would Barry Bannan, who was at loan at Blackpool, know how close he was or wasn't to joining Liverpool?
Because players talk.
Also, Barry wouldn't have been out of touch - he was still a Villa player.
Change was required, but MON will be remembered as the Manager who left us in the lurch 5 days before this season starts.
Enigatic Martin will not Manage ManUre now I don't think ( his dream job) ..... they look for more stickability - either that or sheer Managerial talent based on trophies in the cabinet.
-
Shorey can go fuck himself, he's just joined the Albion for fucks sake, the first case of a rat joining a sinking ship.
-
If Bannan is under 21 why would he expect to be named in our 25? The squad rules state 25 players 8 of whom have to be home grown PLUS UNLIMITED UNDER 21S now, either I'm thick and have misunderstood this or he falls into the latter category. Which is it please?
-
A heady mix of naivety and refreshing honesty from the young lad.
-
I don't think it was any secret that certain players like Davies and Shorey, who had been frozen out, had little regard for O'Neill and understanably so if the bit of ITK that I was privy to over the last few seasons is anything to go by. And I've been saying on here for quite some time that I didn't buy the myth of the "witty, urbane, intelligent" Martin O'Neill, I always saw a snide, condescending, over sensitive egotist beneath the surface. It's not revisionism, it's just his true colours finally being revealed.
-
I don't think it was any secret that certain players like Davies and Shorey, who had been frozen out, had little regard for O'Neill and understanably so if the bit of ITK that I was privy to over the last few seasons is anything to go by. And I've been saying on here for quite some time that I didn't buy the myth of the "witty, urbane, intelligent" Martin O'Neill, I always saw a snide, condescending, over sensitive egotist beneath the surface. It's not revisionism, it's just his true colours finally being revealed.
WORD
-
I don't think it was any secret that certain players like Davies and Shorey, who had been frozen out, had little regard for O'Neill and understanably so if the bit of ITK that I was privy to over the last few seasons is anything to go by. And I've been saying on here for quite some time that I didn't buy the myth of the "witty, urbane, intelligent" Martin O'Neill, I always saw a snide, condescending, over sensitive egotist beneath the surface. It's not revisionism, it's just his true colours finally being revealed.
It's usual to the point of predictability that players who were not playing under a manager wouldn't be liking him all that much and are happy he's gone. Should similar comments be made by the likes of Ash or Petrov, players who were playing, then that shows a problem existed.
-
In fairness to greg he did say MON wanted to go to Liverpool.
The way things have ended up, I wish he had.
I was saying at the time I was hoping he'd go and we could then perhaps get Hodgson in. Didn't think it would turn out this badly if he stayed (for the time being), though.
-
i think Liverpool were very interested in MON, but were a bit taken aback with the out cry from Liverpool fans,
they were swamping the radio stations and forums with stuff about 'long ball' and shit football, saying they wouldnt put up with it.
Was that the long ball shite we used at their place last season when we had an easy win?
-
Let's be honest here. I have heard a few ITK snippets that suggest that MON threw himself at Liverpool like a French tart at a German soldier.
I think he was very surprised not to get that job. I hadn't heard of any contact from Dalglish mind.
-
As much as I hate(d) O'Neill, Bannan is dreaming if he thinks he'll become a regular in The Villa team, or any other Premier team for that matter.
-
It's usual to the point of predictability that players who were not playing under a manager wouldn't be liking him all that much and are happy he's gone. Should similar comments be made by the likes of Ash or Petrov, players who were playing, then that shows a problem existed.
It does, and it's no surprise to hear these players talking. But I think it's symptomatic of the growing problem with O'Neill that six players, all of whom he signed and paid decent money for, very quickly found themselves all but frozen out of the picture. Not just out of the starting X1, out of the squad or deployed as token subs. I think he was struggling with a lot of his players.
Bannan? I can't see him having a starring role but he might be useful as an option wide left as a sub or less important games; I'd rather we used him a little more than chased McGeady for £10m, anyway.
-
Talk about being taken out of context. The guy has just said the situation literally from his point of view. No doubt a newspaper will print it with the headline "Jock Starlet In O'Neill Blast".
I'm a Bannan fan footballing-wise, he just needs to get his head sorted out. That going clubbing with a broken toe at Blackpool last year did him absolutely no favours whatsoever, but hopefully he can take this new opportunity. Something tells me MON's obsession with the physicality of the league was holding him back, showing up again that perhaps he wasn't as tactically mindful as he should be.
-
I don't think the fact that 3 players who MON didnt play because they weren't good enough having a go at him now means a whole lot.
And how would Barry Bannan, who was at loan at Blackpool, know how close he was or wasn't to joining Liverpool?
Yep, I can understand these players are frustrated but I don't think they should've got much more football than they did last season.
Shorey - dropped after a string of poor performances and replaced after Warnock was signed.
Davies - still potentially a good footballer, but our defence performed solidly all season making it difficult to justify putting him in the team. Perhaps should've got a chance when the team began to tire towards the end of the season.
Bannan - Could be a good prospect but he couldn't really have expected much more than the odd substitute appearance last season. Would expect to see more of him this season though.
-
A prob
I don't think it was any secret that certain players like Davies and Shorey, who had been frozen out, had little regard for O'Neill and understanably so if the bit of ITK that I was privy to over the last few seasons is anything to go by. And I've been saying on here for quite some time that I didn't buy the myth of the "witty, urbane, intelligent" Martin O'Neill, I always saw a snide, condescending, over sensitive egotist beneath the surface. It's not revisionism, it's just his true colours finally being revealed.
It's usual to the point of predictability that players who were not playing under a manager wouldn't be liking him all that much and are happy he's gone. Should similar comments be made by the likes of Ash or Petrov, players who were playing, then that shows a problem existed.
l
Problems existed alright. Those who were guaranteed starters even if comatose are hardly likely to complain about it though are they.
-
It's funny looking at the difference to the reactions when the likes of Sorenson and Berger spoke out after they left, to the various not good enough players who are in the press now.
-
Shorey can go fuck himself, he's just joined the Albion for fucks sake, the first case of a rat joining a sinking ship.
If we're a "sinking ship", then this poor man's Alan Wright is jumping off the Titanic straight onto the Mary fucking Celeste.
-
*Cloughie stereotype alert* Could be that he viewed us as a somewhat bigger Nottingham Forest and the challenge was to upset the natural order. And for the first 18 months-2 years that was motivation enough.
Agree with your latter point though.
I believed this was his motivation, and why I felt he would see the job through if it broke him.
I was wrong, and he can fuck off as far as I'm concerned.
-
As much as I hate(d) O'Neill, Bannan is dreaming if he thinks he'll become a regular in The Villa team, or any other Premier team for that matter.
Our kids were being given a chance to come through the ranks. That is one thing you cannot level at MON for not encouraging. Honesty is great, but when you are 20 and just coming through the academy, you need to keep you mouth shut and head down. Not everyone makes it, and being bitter isn't going to improve your stock. The next manager who comes in may see that also and he'll be back in the same boat.
-
I'm still inclined to believe Martin Laursen ahead of anything an arsehole like Shorey says, he reckoned that some liked him others didn't and I think you'd get the same at any club in the country.
Fleetwood Mac wrote a song about it, the line is "Players only love you when they're playing".
-
Laursen left a year back. He wouldn't know really
-
I agree Chris. Eleven of the squad probably liked him.
-
Laursen left a year back. He wouldn't know really
Unbelievable, you think you know beter than our ex-captain. This has taken your delusion to a whole new level.
-
I like Chris's Fleetwood Mac link it sums it up perfectly.
In any case, it's not a question of being liked it's about respect and I think all the squad did even if all of them didn't like him.
-
Laursen left a year back. He wouldn't know really
Unbelievable, you think you know beter than our ex-captain. This has taken your delusion to a whole new level.
Riiiiight... So a full year after you've left a job, you're still in touch with exactly whats going on behind the scenes there? Best you'll know is what you've heard from a few people you keep in touch with.
-
Riiiiight... So a full year after you've left a job, you're still in touch with exactly whats going on behind the scenes there? Best you'll know is what you've heard from a few people you keep in touch with.
Gnasher, are you saying that Laursen knows very little and is spouting bollocks?
-
I'm still inclined to believe Martin Laursen ahead of anything an arsehole like Shorey says, he reckoned that some liked him others didn't and I think you'd get the same at any club in the country.
Fleetwood Mac wrote a song about it, the line is "Players only love you when they're playing".
Laursen said he was difficult to work with, even though he liked him.
-
I'm still inclined to believe Martin Laursen ahead of anything an arsehole like Shorey says, he reckoned that some liked him others didn't and I think you'd get the same at any club in the country.
Fleetwood Mac wrote a song about it, the line is "Players only love you when they're playing".
Laursen said he was difficult to work with, even though he liked him.
He also said if a player was out of his plans he wouldn't speak to them.