Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: andrew08 on August 12, 2010, 07:24:56 AM
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3) What role if any does our club President Doug Ellis play during this time ? I would suggest that he at the very least represents continuity during an unforeseen time of upheaval. Bearing in mind he probably has more experience than anybody else in British football as to appointing a new manager. Would he be consulted as to the process to seek out candidates ?
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Is there a speechless emoticon for this ?
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I see no harm in asking Doug his opinion on managers. He has signed a few good ones after all.
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I see no harm in asking Doug his opinion on managers. He has signed a few good ones after all.
Yeah right...he also sacked most of`em, which suggests his judgement was not quite right in the first place. Furthermore his judgement may have further diminshed with the onset of age - however ...Franz Beckenbaur (sp?) anybody?
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If Doug advised the next Taylor, Atkinson or Little I'd be quite happy.
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If Doug advised the next Taylor, Atkinson or Little I'd be quite happy.
On the other hand...DOL and Dr Jo. Mind you HDE did recruit MON
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I am not suggesting Doug is involved in drawing up a list of candidates or making the decision. What I am saying is that he has vast experience in the process of appointing a manager, and I see no harm in him being consulted and drawing on that experience.
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I see no harm in asking Doug his opinion on managers. He has signed a few good ones after all.
Yeah right...he also sacked most of`em, which suggests his judgement was not quite right in the first place. Furthermore his judgement may have further diminshed with the onset of age - however ...Franz Beckenbaur (sp?) anybody?
All managers have a shelf life, big fat ron was great so was Brian Little (sir alex excluded)but they cant keep the majic
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The answer to the original question is 'none'.
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Lerner's never picked a football manager in his life. He knows less about football than most people on here ( although there are a few exceptions, reading some people's suggestions for our next manager). He's obviously got to speak to someone who has experience in hiring new managers. Who should he consult?
Even if he speaks to Ellis and does the exact opposite of what Doug suggests, he would be a fool not to at least seek his advice.
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Exactly Chico. I made that very point to Dave last night.
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I think it's wrong to assume Randy doesnt know much about football. He chose us for starters!
Even if he needs to ask advice on appointments, he'll know the right people to ask.
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I'd prefer , if he needed advice from somebody previously associated with the Club, that he'd speak to Steve Stride.
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Bloody hell. Cut the wages, sell to buy, can't compete with the big clubs, Doug picking the manager. Let's do the time warp again...
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Doug Ellis would be the ideal bloke to give advice on appointment of a new manager as he could help with preparation of the subsequent exit strategy (sacking) as well.
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Lerner's never picked a football manager in his life. He knows less about football than most people on here ( although there are a few exceptions, reading some people's suggestions for our next manager). He's obviously got to speak to someone who has experience in hiring new managers. Who should he consult?
Even if he speaks to Ellis and does the exact opposite of what Doug suggests, he would be a fool not to at least seek his advice.
I agree Chico. What Doug does have is superb contacts through friendships and associations over many years in the football world.That does not mean that he should make the choice.It does mean that he may get some "whispers", both about "unexpected availability" and those wh have applied who should be avoided.
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Doug Ellis would be the ideal bloke to give advice on appointment of a new manager as he could help with preparation of the subsequent exit strategy (sacking) as well.
ouch
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Bloody hell. Cut the wages, sell to buy, can't compete with the big clubs, Doug picking the manager. Let's do the time warp again...
Made me chuckle Chris...nice one.
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If Doug advised the next Taylor, Atkinson or Little I'd be quite happy.
On the other hand...DOL and Dr Jo. Mind you HDE did recruit MON
He also appointed Ron Saunders. Gregory looked an inspired choice for a couple of years. A few mistakes but he probably had more successes to be fair. And appointing Dr Jo was years ahead of its time - it didnt work but then it may not have had enough time.
If the Chief Exec doesnt know enough about the game to be able to appoint a suitable manager, or to seek appropriate external advice, then something is wrong.
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I dont think I could stand Doug banging on about how he helped choose another Villa manger.
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I don't understand why hiring a football manager should be beyond the capability of Randy and his team. It's very simplistic to assume that just because he hasn't (directly) done it before then he should not be able to do it now.
Randy is a top level operator and will know exactly how to proceed in this situation. While the ultimate decision may be his, I am certain that he will have done due diligence on the next appointee and will know exactly what he's getting.
As for Doug, he may have some useful input and Randy may ask his opinion out of respect but I can't see that he would add much that Randy would not be aware of. Managing Villa is a top job, and any worthwhile candidates that would be interested would certainly make their interest known to the club, whether available or not.
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I don't understand why hiring a football manager should be beyond the capability of Randy and his team.
Ask the Cleveland Browns fans - as I understand it he doesn't have a great track record with his selection of coaches there, and I would guess he knows a lot more about that sport than proper Football. I like Randy a lot but this is a doubt I have about him.
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I'm sure I read somewhere that Sir Graham Taylor had offered his services in offering Randy any advice when it comes to the appointment of a new manager, or any other footballing matter. (This was around the time it was rumoured MoN was quitting back in March).
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I think the man he appoints will tell us a lot about his vision for the future and where we can expect to be in a few years time.
Bob Bradley - cheap option and keeps us afloat with a reasonable amount of cash. A sign future investment will be restricted and that Martin may have been right to leave. Expect mid table mediocrity.
Sven (and maybe Martin Jol as well) - wants to keep things pretty much as they are amd will keep building the club. We'll aim for Europe each season and have an outside chance of 4th. Pretty much as we are now.
An unexpected top manager - he won't be coming in to do anything other than reach the CL. Expect continued investment in the squad and would show MON to be a prat for leaving.
As it goes, I expect someone on the Sven/Jol level.
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I don't get why Randy's experience in picking a new football manager should have a bearing. There are lots of chairman with tons more so called "experience" who fuck up the picking manager process every time they do it. It is naive to think Randy is going into this blindly. He's had a hand in selecting numerous coaches and executives for thr Browns so he'll have an idea on what's required with us. I'm sure he picks up the paper, browses the web, and watches Sky like the rest of us and will be able to get a decent impression of what's good or bad in conjunction with the adivice he may be getting from around him.
As for Doug's role, off course he should be consulted. Like I said above, he's got tons of experience, and he's made some great choices in that time along with some really poor ones.
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it's a strange one this-reading the quote they seem to be pertaining to not being familiar with the accepted procedure.
Ringing around other clubs asking "is your manager frustrated with the new financial constraints of football?"
"can we ask him to come here to be just as frustrated?" may not work too well.
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you'd imagine doug would stick his oar in anyway, whether randy asked him for advice or not!
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I see no harm in asking Doug his opinion on managers. He has signed a few good ones after all.
Yeah right...he also sacked most of`em, which suggests his judgement was not quite right in the first place.
when it came time to sack them he had probably forgotten that he hired them
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Lerner's never picked a football manager in his life. He knows less about football than most people on here
I think people really underestimate two things concerning Lerners football knowledge.
Firstly he has watched and supported the game at all sorts of levels for some years, he didn't start watching it when he took over Villa.
Secondly he moves in circles where he can have contact, and I'm sure does have contact with people who really know more about football than most anyone on this site and most anywhere else.
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SFX
Firstly he has watched and supported the game at all sorts of levels for some years, he didn't start watching it when he took over Villa.
Satrted following Villa in 1982 or thereabouts? Dunno about you, but I reckon I know more about Villa and football than Randy. He obviously nows more about the business of Villa than me and you though
SFX
Secondly he moves in circles where he can have contact, and I'm sure does have contact with people who really know more about football than most anyone on this site and most anywhere else.
People like Ellis, for example?
I'm not having a go at him at all, just suggesting - as you seem to be doing - that he takes advice when it's offered.
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We got Sir Graham on a tip-off from a retired shopkeeper. It would be daft to ignore pertinent advice from any quarter.
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Bloody hell. Cut the wages, sell to buy, can't compete with the big clubs, Doug picking the manager. Let's do the time warp again...
your not very happy any more are you
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SFX
Firstly he has watched and supported the game at all sorts of levels for some years, he didn't start watching it when he took over Villa.
Satrted following Villa in 1982 or thereabouts? Dunno about you, but I reckon I know more about Villa and football than Randy. He obviously nows more about the business of Villa than me and you though
But I gather he watched 'soccer' well before he started supporting Villa
SFX
Secondly he moves in circles where he can have contact, and I'm sure does have contact with people who really know more about football than most anyone on this site and most anywhere else.
People like Ellis, for example?
I'm not having a go at him at all, just suggesting - as you seem to be doing - that he takes advice when it's offered.
Ellis, that's a good one. RL's a paid up member of the PL owners club, a mate of ex footballers, a top whack businessman who before Villa had a passing interest in another PL club and yes quite rightly I was suggesting he is the sort to take advice, and has probably been doing so for some time.
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Malcolm, I not sure from your reply whether you're agreeing with me or arguing with me.....
Although I'll stick to my guns and claim that I know more about Villa than Randy, purely because I've been watching them for much longer and have a decent (ish) knowledge of the club and our history.
I'll take him on in a Villa quiz any day of the week, chap
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I see no harm in asking Doug his opinion on managers. He has signed a few good ones after all.
Neither do I.
I just see the harm in actually listening to that opinion.
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Randy should get Sir Graham Taylor, Brian Little and Ron Atkinson together and come up with a short list and do the interview together.
Doug Ellis can play a part to identify which one to avoid.
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Bloody hell. Cut the wages, sell to buy, can't compete with the big clubs, Doug picking the manager. Let's do the time warp again...
your not very happy any more are you
It was only a matter of time before his GP cut off his repeat prescription for Prozac.
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We got Sir Graham on a tip-off from a retired shopkeeper. It would be daft to ignore pertinent advice from any quarter.
Never knew this, can you tell us more please?
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Bloody hell. Cut the wages, sell to buy, can't compete with the big clubs, Doug picking the manager. Let's do the time warp again...
your not very happy any more are you
As Larry, twas merely a joke as Mr VCTM noted.
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We got Sir Graham on a tip-off from a retired shopkeeper. It would be daft to ignore pertinent advice from any quarter.
Never knew this, can you tell us more please?
Was it a Jewish Shopkeeper?
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We got Sir Graham on a tip-off from a retired shopkeeper. It would be daft to ignore pertinent advice from any quarter.
Never knew this, can you tell us more please?
Was it a Jewish Shopkeeper?
Was it a corner shop ?
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We got Sir Graham on a tip-off from a retired shopkeeper. It would be daft to ignore pertinent advice from any quarter.
Never knew this, can you tell us more please?
Was it a Jewish Shopkeeper?
Was it a corner shop ?
did nurse Gladys Emmanuel live opposite the shop ?
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Chris is one hundred percent so right. Dragging Herbert back into the limelight - which he would adore is utterly absurd. He is a very old man (like me) and naturally inflexible and set in his views and opinions. He would almost certainly propose a shortlist of Glen Hoddle, Ray Graydon and Trevor Francis.
Leave the old boy out of it. Let him make funny teeth out of orange peel and chase his grandson round the tomato patch.
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We got Sir Graham on a tip-off from a retired shopkeeper. It would be daft to ignore pertinent advice from any quarter.
Never knew this, can you tell us more please?
Dick Taylor, former Villa manager, kept a sports shop on Witton Lane. He was an old friend of Sir Graham's family, and was told he fancied a move from Watford, tipped off Doug and we struck lucky.
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General Krulak here:
I do not see Doug Ellis playing an active role in the Club at this time. As I have indicated before, we do have a good deal of "football expertise" in and around the Villa and the Board. We have many "advisors" who will be providing input as we move forward.
This should calm the people who went into panic at the mention of Doug Ellis and new manager in the same topic.
I still say that seeking his advice can do no harm, and that is in no way a reflection of Randys perceived inexperience or otherwise.
I would have thought when you have a big decision to make you seek out every bit of input and help from people who are on your side.
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Ok then, if he cant help pick the new manager how about another idea?
(http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/birmmail/jan2010/1/9/image-5-for-doug-ellis-life-in-pictures-gallery-995769653.jpg)
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Chris is one hundred percent so right. Dragging Herbert back into the limelight - which he would adore is utterly absurd. He is a very old man (like me) and naturally inflexible and set in his views and opinions. He would almost certainly propose a shortlist of Glen Hoddle, Ray Graydon and Trevor Francis.
Leave the old boy out of it. Let him make funny teeth out of orange peel and chase his grandson round the tomato patch.
So eloquently put sir...
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Ok then, if he cant help pick the new manager how about another idea?
(http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/birmmail/jan2010/1/9/image-5-for-doug-ellis-life-in-pictures-gallery-995769653.jpg)
He loved thinking he was the sportsman. Anyone remember this quite frankly nauseating pictures he hung up in the Trinity. You'd have Gordon Cowans one side, Mortimer the other and then these:
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j48/stevenjoes/DougEgo1.jpg)
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j48/stevenjoes/DougEgo2.jpg)
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j48/stevenjoes/DougEgo3.jpg)
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I give you :
HDE - "Welcome to Villa Park everbody - I am pleased to announce and introduce you to our new manager......Graham Taylor !!"
Hushed aside - " It`s Graham Turner, Mr Ellis"
HDE - "Is it? - who is he ?"
Aside - " Former Manager of Hereford Utd, sir"
HDE (thinks) - Oh shit...... "Mr Taylor, couldn`t be here today ladies and gentlemen so Mr Turner has agreed to fill in for him untill he can get here"
Members of the press (muted giggles and laughter).
Yes folks lets ask (a now much older ) HDE who we should be approaching to be our new manager.