Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Drummond on July 27, 2010, 11:58:44 PM
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From Grauniad.co.uk
Liverpool agree fee of £2.5m for Aston Villa's Luke Young
Liverpool have made a surprise move for the Aston Villa full-back Luke Young. Roy Hodgson, the Liverpool manager, tried to sign Young earlier this year when he was in charge of Fulham and he has now rekindled his interest in the former England international. Liverpool have agreed a £2.5m fee for a player who has been told he is surplus to requirements at Villa Park.
Although Hodgson's pursuit of Young might raise a few eyebrows among Liverpool supporters, the 31-year-old is able to operate in both full-back positions and was asked to represent England as recently as last November, when Fabio Capello failed to persuade the defender to reverse the decision he made earlier that year to retire from international football with seven caps to his name. He would also increase Liverpool's quota of homegrown players to comply with the new Premier League rule.
Liverpool are also short of options in the full-back positions because Emiliano Insúa is set to join Fiorentina and Fábio Aurélio has left the club on a free transfer. Philipp Degen, the Switzerland right-back, has also been told that he can look for another club after meeting with Hodgson last week.
Villa have been keen to offload Young as he is one of the club's higher earners and has three years remaining on his contract. Sunderland had also expressed an interest in signing Young this summer but were unable to match his personal terms.
Villa's decision to make Young available for transfer came as a disappointment to many of the club's supporters. Having joined Villa from Middlesbrough in a £5.5m deal two years ago, Young performed well in his first season but his start to the following campaign was curtailed through a combination of injury and personal tragedy, when Andre, his 17-year-old half-brother, was found dead on holiday.
Young eventually came back into the Villa side but made only 14 Premier League starts and was ultimately unable to dislodge Carlos Cuéllar, an orthodox central defender, from the right-back position. He remained a popular figure among the Villa supporters, however, and was given a standing ovation when he appeared as a substitute against Blackburn Rovers in the final match of the season.
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http://www.heroesandvillains.info/discuss/viewtopic.php?t=37505&start=7305
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Hi chaps, as we did last summer, we've decided that if there's a transfer story that looks like it has a bit more substance to it, we'll have a seperate thread rather than losing them in the general madness of the transfer nonsense thread.
(Anything in the Daily Sodding Mirror can stay in the big thread though!)
So, Luke Young to Liverpool then.....
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Good Luck Luke, another casualty of Martins tactical madness.
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As many have said before; good player, performed well on the pitch for us at rb & lb, will be sad to see him leave but can't blame him for wanting a move.
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What I find odd about this is Mon's comments that they are leaving it up to Young to decide what he wants to do.
Now I have often wondered about Young and his motivation, especially following his brothers tragic death, but here he is sitting at a club whose manager, despite his protestations, refuses to play him , seemingly no longer gets on with him and a club, who have the likes of Gerrard, Torres and now Cole, who are desperately short of full backs, with the Manager of the Year in charge wants him.
Seems a no brainer to me.
We've even agreed the loss on him seemingly fee wise. Why's he hanging around ?
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Dont get this at all, best right back at the club and amongst the best in the Premiership imo. Really want to trust in MO'N but just dont understand why we're selling him.
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Nuts that we are letting him to go.
Liverpool get a better right-back than they currently have and a better left-back than they currently have all for the price of one player.
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Another personality clash ?
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Good player and want him to stay, but I share the feeling that something hasn't been quite right since his brother's death.
Although I rate him I don't think he's so good that we can't buy a younger version, so I'll judge if it's right or wrong once we see who the replacement is.
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Stupid stupid decision Villa!
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Lukes on decent wages here so I suppose he will want similar before joining Liverpool, he lost his place long before his brothers death, shortly after moaning to the press about his dislike of playing left back- that's more likely why mon dropped him.
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TBF he is a better right back than Cuellar, I can understand why he was peeved about being dropped from his favoured position for someone not as good at it.
MON must have the wrong lenses in his glasses, because he just cannot see what others can.
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Good player and want him to stay, but I share the feeling that something hasn't been quite right since his brother's death.
Although I rate him I don't think he's so good that we can't buy a younger version, so I'll judge if it's right or wrong once we see who the replacement is.
Yes, I would agree with this. Hopefully his replacement isnt Carlos Cuellar who does a fine job when occasionally called upon but not a regular fixture there please.
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Good, solid professional.
Not the sort of player we ideally want to find ourselves having to replace if it can be avoided. Still, fall out with MON, and this is where you end up.
That's the manager's prerogative, though, and if he wants to run things that way, that's his shout.
So long as his grudges don't end up costing us, because if they do, we'll know where to point the finger
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He's a steady player. He's not going to go up there and replace Johnson, he's going up there as cover, swapping one bench for another.
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I'm getting so sick of MON and his grudges and favorites.
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I can only assume that Onuha or maybe Micah Richards is being sounded out as a replacement as part of a Milner deal.
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Alan Hutton.
Nowt to back that up mind, just a hunch.
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Alan Hutton.
Nowt to back that up mind, just a hunch.
I've mentioned him on another couple of threads.
If he can stay fit then he'd be decent, Levy would rip us off though.
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We are Aston Villa... we don't need full-backs!
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Alan Hutton.
Nowt to back that up mind, just a hunch.
I've mentioned him on another couple of threads.
If he can stay fit then he'd be decent, Levy would rip us off though.
Totally disagree as I've already said elsewhere. He had a run of good games for Rangers a few years back which just happened to be televised in most cases, his value shot up, Spurs fell for it as they always do, and he has been terrible ever since. I wouldn't go anywhere near him...
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Alan Hutton.
Nowt to back that up mind, just a hunch.
I've mentioned him on another couple of threads.
If he can stay fit then he'd be decent, Levy would rip us off though.
Just makes sense, doesn't it?
Moved for a high fee a few years ago, lost his way a bit so MON can go all Brian Clough and try to salvage his career. Played in Scotland too. Bonus.
Did OK at Sunderland last year, so there's your Prem experience as well.
Had a reputation in Scotland as a pacy attacking fullback. But then Stan had a reputation as an all action goalscoring midfielder. The league is that poor it's hard to get a true gauge on a players ability. Some of the Mackems who have been floating around today might be in a better position to give us the lowdown.
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Best full back at the club. If I was being left out of the team because of a standard centre-half playing my position I think I'd be off. Good luck to him.
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Good luck to him. A good player who always did his best.
We just need to find a younger version of him to come in. If we don't the manager has dropped a monumental bollock.
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Just another bollock to add to the rest mons
dropped I'm afraid.
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With all the Europa games, League Cup games etc he'll probably start 30 odd times for Liverpool next season.
Still, not good enough for us. ;-) hahaha
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Wank... good fullback who couldnt really get a game... A MON fook up....
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I see a lot of people are saying we're better off without him and so on we need someone younger etc etc.
I agree Luke Young is not all that and that we could use a younger player but such is the scarcity of good right backs he is still one of the better ones around. I also see very little agreement from anyone on the right man to replace him.
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A good player but just a full-back. That's the football equivalent of being a bass player. The way some are talking on here you'd think he was Bobby Moore (who, for all the pedants, I am aware was a centre back).
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A good player but just a full-back. That's the football equivalent of being a bass player.
Hehehe. Love it.
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A good player but just a full-back. That's the football equivalent of being a bass player.
Bad analogy.
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Bands need good bass players though not as much as guitarists, lead singers and drummers.
You only notice the bass player if he's shit.
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Ridiculous decision by O'Niell once again.
One of the best right backs in the Premier League, but not good enough for us.
Another season of Kick-it-out Carlos beckons......
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Nuts that we are letting him to go.
Liverpool get a better right-back than they currently have and a better left-back than they currently have all for the price of one player.
He can only play in one place at any one time though ;)
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I see a lot of people are saying we're better off without him and so on we need someone younger etc etc.
I agree Luke Young is not all that and that we could use a younger player but such is the scarcity of good right backs he is still one of the better ones around. I also see very little agreement from anyone on the right man to replace him.
Has anyone said that? All I see is comments that he's not irreplacable.
I'd target Mich Richards as his replacement, Milner deal or not!
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I see a lot of people are saying we're better off without him and so on we need someone younger etc etc.
I agree Luke Young is not all that and that we could use a younger player but such is the scarcity of good right backs he is still one of the better ones around. I also see very little agreement from anyone on the right man to replace him.
Has anyone said that? All I see is comments that he's not irreplacable.
I'd target Mich Richards as his replacement, Milner deal or not!
Yes one or two people have said we are better off with a younger player in there hence better off without them. I may even have been one of them.
As I've just said on the transfer thread Richards would be my choice but his poorer form in the last two years would be a concern that said I think with an injection of confidence he'll be great.
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Bands need good bass players though not as much as guitarists, lead singers and drummers.
You only notice the bass player if he's shit.
Not when he's Lemmy.
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I've always thought Richards would be absolutely ideal for us. Not because he's the best right back around, just that he's the right age and the right sort of character to thrive amongst our players.
He's potentially a fantastic player too.
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I've always thought Richards would be absolutely ideal for us. Not because he's the best right back around, just that he's the right age and the right sort of character to thrive amongst our players.
He's potentially a fantastic player too.
I can't see City parting with him unfortunately.
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I've always thought Richards would be absolutely ideal for us. Not because he's the best right back around, just that he's the right age and the right sort of character to thrive amongst our players.
He's potentially a fantastic player too.
I can't see City parting with him unfortunately.
Yes, although I find that odd. They've replaced every other position with expensive signings. Sometimes twice. I'd be suprised if he stayed their right back for very long.
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Good player and want him to stay, but I share the feeling that something hasn't been quite right since his brother's death.
Although I rate him I don't think he's so good that we can't buy a younger version, so I'll judge if it's right or wrong once we see who the replacement is.
Yes, I would agree with this. Hopefully his replacement isnt Carlos Cuellar who does a fine job when occasionally called upon but not a regular fixture there please.
My view also.
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Bands need good bass players though not as much as guitarists, lead singers and drummers.
You only notice the bass player if he's shit.
Full back is the hardest working player on the pitch and is becoming increasingly important with every season that passes.
Very poor decision to let him go and a huge disappointment.
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I've always thought Richards would be absolutely ideal for us. Not because he's the best right back around, just that he's the right age and the right sort of character to thrive amongst our players.
He's potentially a fantastic player too.
I can't see City parting with him unfortunately.
Yes, although I find that odd. They've replaced every other position with expensive signings. Sometimes twice. I'd be suprised if he stayed their right back for very long.
He's also been linked with Spurs this summer. I think he might be available.
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Good player but life goes on. I just hope we can get someone decent in to replace him
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Good player but life goes on. I just hope we can get someone decent in to replace him
We have King Carlos
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A lot of people assuming he will be replaced, but currently Cuellar is our 1st choice right back and our back up is a seasoned international on about £40k a week, we also have Lichaj. I don't see how replacing Young with someone like Richards helps reduce our wage bill when he will cost more in terms of a fee and wages. Specialist full backs are not a priority for M'ON and I would only expect a right back to come in if Beye were to go too, but I can't see anyone taking him on his wages. Luke had turned into more of a back up left back to Warnock than anything else by the end anyhow.
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A lot of people assuming he will be replaced, but currently Cuellar is our 1st choice right back and our back up is a seasoned international on about £40k a week, we also have Lichaj. I don't see how replacing Young with someone like Richards helps reduce our wage bill when he will cost more in terms of a fee and wages. Specialist full backs are not a priority for M'ON and I would only expect a right back to come in if Beye were to go too, but I can't see anyone taking him on his wages. Luke had turned into more of a back up left back to Warnock than anything else by the end anyhow.
Well said Pedro........and the money should be spent on a quality goal scorer
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Good luck Young. A very good fullback.
However, I'm not convinced that this is a case of MON with his favourites/ holding a grudge.
Cuellar came in at right back when Collins and Dunne came in, which was around the time of Young losing his brother.
The defence put in some solid performances, and got clean sheet after clean sheet after clean sheet. Why change the defence? It was doing its job.
Then when he did change it, we get hammered 7-1 by Chelsea. Not just down to Luke Young I know, the whole teams performance was disappointing, but you can see MON thinking surely? I do recall afterwards O'Neill coming in for a bit of criticism because he brought Young in for the Chelsea game when Cuellar is better defensively (I can't remember whether it was on this forum, but I think it was).
Young offers more going forwards, but is he better defensively than Cuellar? I personally don't think so. Young is a good player with a good attitude, and I understand if he wants to move on. O'Neill stuck with Cuellar, who was putting in solid defensive displays (which first and foremost is what you want from your defenders.) Young wants to play regular football presumably, which he's not getting at Villa so he's moving on. I wouldn't have thought that Liverpool is the best destination to get 1st team football, but there you go, that's Young's choice.
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Be sad to see him go but mon as made up his mind on this one.
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I see a lot of people are saying we're better off without him and so on we need someone younger etc etc.
I agree Luke Young is not all that and that we could use a younger player but such is the scarcity of good right backs he is still one of the better ones around. I also see very little agreement from anyone on the right man to replace him.
I personally feel he defended slightly better at left back.
As you say a full back who can play both positions relatively well isn't that easy to find nowadays.
I think this is an error particularly if we lose a couple of our defenders to injuries.
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well done martin,sell the best r/b at the club to one of your rivals .you fucking idiot!
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Lets let him go to Liverpool as long as they will take Heskey off us for exchange for Torres....
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He'll play less games next season than he did last if he moves there.
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well done martin,sell the best r/b at the club to one of your rivals .you fucking idiot!
Or, well done Martin, sell an average r/b to one of your rivals to help us exploit their weaknesses when we play them...you fucking genius!
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They don't have a left back at the club currently.
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well done martin,sell the best r/b at the club to one of your rivals .you fucking idiot!
Or, well done Martin, sell an average r/b to one of your rivals to help us exploit their weaknesses when we play them...you fucking genius!
or well done Martin thats left us with ZERO experienced specialist right backs........
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well done martin,sell the best r/b at the club to one of your rivals .you fucking idiot!
Or, well done Martin, sell an average r/b to one of your rivals to help us exploit their weaknesses when we play them...you fucking genius!
Didnt Wigan say the same thing, when we signed a certain player off them...
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Just another part of a somewhat depressing summer as a Villa fan thus far.
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I think its a good move for all concerned. Luke has a chance to get into the Liverpool squad, and play games. Not good enough to get into our team, which is better than Liverpool, so lets sell him, take the money and cut the wage bill and invest elsewhere
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He'll play less games next season than he did last if he moves there.
I see Mr Nostradamus has returned and hacked into your account Chris. (winky)
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He'll play less games next season than he did last if he moves there.
I see Mr Nostradamus has returned and hacked into your account Chris. (winky)
Thing is Chris, that might well be true. But I'm pretty sure he'll play more games there next season than he would at Villa next season.
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I think its a good move for all concerned. Luke has a chance to get into the Liverpool squad, and play games. Not good enough to get into our team, which is better than Liverpool, so lets sell him, take the money and cut the wage bill and invest elsewhere
Love your enthusiasm Moet.
How can you see MON 'investing' a paltry £2.5 million in a better right back than Luke Young ?
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He'll play less games next season than he did last if he moves there.
I see Mr Nostradamus has returned and hacked into your account Chris. (winky)
Touché, I deserved that - although I don't see him displacing Glen Johnson.
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He'll play less games next season than he did last if he moves there.
You complained about me getting ahead of myself last week with my predictions. I'm not saying he's guaranteed to start but for all we know Glen Johnson could break his leg 1st September.
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I think its a good move for all concerned. Luke has a chance to get into the Liverpool squad, and play games. Not good enough to get into our team, which is better than Liverpool, so lets sell him, take the money and cut the wage bill and invest elsewhere
Love your enthusiasm Moet.
How can you see MON 'investing' a paltry £2.5 million in a better right back than Luke Young ?
It's the wages though and the 25 man squad that is more pertinent I'd have thought.
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He'll play less games next season than he did last if he moves there.
You complained about me getting ahead of myself last week with my predictions. I'm not saying he's guaranteed to start but for all we know Glen Johnson could break his leg 1st September.
He could, but I'm sure that sure that Hodgson is only signing him as cover.
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He'll play less games next season than he did last if he moves there.
You complained about me getting ahead of myself last week with my predictions. I'm not saying he's guaranteed to start but for all we know Glen Johnson could break his leg 1st September.
He could, but I'm sure that sure that Hodgson is only signing him as cover.
Possibly. Or maybe he thinks that Luke Young's superior defending makes him a more balanced right back than Johnson. Who knows.
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He'll play less games next season than he did last if he moves there.
You complained about me getting ahead of myself last week with my predictions. I'm not saying he's guaranteed to start but for all we know Glen Johnson could break his leg 1st September.
He could, but I'm sure that sure that Hodgson is only signing him as cover.
Possibly. Or maybe he thinks that Luke Young's superior defending makes him a more balanced right back than Johnson. Who knows.
If I was Hodgson, i'd play Luke at right back and stick Johnson on the right wing.
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As far as the 25 man squad rules we dont have a issue as we have 14 homegrown U/21's to choose from........Its the wages and the fact that MON wants rid of him
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He'll play less games next season than he did last if he moves there.
You complained about me getting ahead of myself last week with my predictions. I'm not saying he's guaranteed to start but for all we know Glen Johnson could break his leg 1st September.
He could, but I'm sure that sure that Hodgson is only signing him as cover.
Possibly. Or maybe he thinks that Luke Young's superior defending makes him a more balanced right back than Johnson. Who knows.
He's a better defender than Johnson that's for sure but then that's no great accolade in itself.
I'm not that fussed about his departure, in all truthfulness, it's been on the cards for most of last season and If it helps us get the wage bill down all well and good.
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As far as the 25 man squad rules we dont have a issue as we have 14 homegrown U/21's to choose from........Its the wages and the fact that MON wants rid of him
You don't need to include U21s in the 25 so I'm not sure what relevance that has. In any case it's the squad on 1st of September that is the issue not 28th July.
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He'll play less games next season than he did last if he moves there.
You complained about me getting ahead of myself last week with my predictions. I'm not saying he's guaranteed to start but for all we know Glen Johnson could break his leg 1st September.
He could, but I'm sure that sure that Hodgson is only signing him as cover.
Possibly. Or maybe he thinks that Luke Young's superior defending makes him a more balanced right back than Johnson. Who knows.
If I was Hodgson, i'd play Luke at right back and stick Johnson on the right wing.
He'll play left back for them i reckon.
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BTW. I can only see sense in getting rid because of wages if he doesn't deserve to be in the first team. He does deserve to, so he should stay. It should be Young, Cuellar or Collins, Dunne and Warnock as the back 4 next season. I can understand getting rid of Beye if this Lichaj is as good as made out to be though. The only thing that i can think re Young being sold is that the rumour about him trying to lead some sort of revolt against MON after the Moscow debacle is true. I suppose MON has to lay down the law and show who is in charge from that respect (if true).
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If I was Woy, I would seriously consider moving Johnson into midfield. Its only his pace that makes up for the fact that he is an average defender at best. So why not play him as a winger, and then overlap with Young? Watching Johnson at Liverpool and for England makes me think someone told him he is the equivalent of Ashley Cole on the otherside. He is way short of that. If Liverpool play to the strengths of their squad they should be able to cement seventh next year.
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As far as the 25 man squad rules we dont have a issue as we have 14 homegrown U/21's to choose from........Its the wages and the fact that MON wants rid of him
You don't need to include U21s in the 25 so I'm not sure what relevance that has. In any case it's the squad on 1st of September that is the issue not 28th July.
Sorry my mistake, mis-read the Daily Mail, we have 14 home grown over 21's to choose from and you need to have 8 at least, Liverpool only have 5 currently
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I disagree with your earlier post moet- luke is good enough to get into out team- it's the manager whose not good enough to see it!
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Looks like this has gone through
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Looks like this has gone through
Where Juan?
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East19, we have to disagree on this then. I think that Cuellar plays better in that position defensively, and helps the shape of the team better. We look more solid on set pieces. Cuellar doesnt attack or pass with the same skill I fully agree, he can have you crying with rage sometimes, but we have less cover in our midfield than some teams, so need more grit in our full backs. If I was the manager, I would be equally as hated as MON on this decision, as I think he has it right. The politics of who lies who aside, Im making my choice on purely what I have seen
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Will i be happy or sad, next season when Ashley Young is running at Luke Young?...........................very happy tbh.
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Surely something will come out in the future that the two had a bust up over something. It is worrying that Martin froze him out over a personalitiy clash as he's always been a consistant performer.
I do feel sorry for Carlos sometimes as its not his natural position,and we were starting to see the best of him when he was playing centre back,but fullbacks get alot of the ball in the attacking postions nowadays and 9 times out of 10 its a waste passing it to Carlos in those positions as it usually gets spooned or over hit.What makes its so much more frustrating is that we have a quality player in Young not playing.
Good luck to him if it does go through.
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Fair enough moet, I just like my full backs to be able to defend first and foremost but also to be capable of overlapping and getting in decent crosses , carlos in my team would be at centre half but I agree he has improved at right back from when he first went there.
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If I was Woy, I would seriously consider moving Johnson into midfield. Its only his pace that makes up for the fact that he is an average defender at best. So why not play him as a winger, and then overlap with Young? Watching Johnson at Liverpool and for England makes me think someone told him he is the equivalent of Ashley Cole on the otherside. He is way short of that. If Liverpool play to the strengths of their squad they should be able to cement seventh next year.
I've been saying the same thing for a while. Due to the paucity of options for the right wing (Ash and Downing have the left sorted) I reckon Johnson will show enough to be England's first choice in the role due to the skill set he has.
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Will i be happy or sad, next season when Ashley Young is running at Luke Young?...........................very happy tbh.
I'd rather see him running at Glen Johnson.
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Will i be happy or sad, next season when Ashley Young is running at Luke Young?...........................very happy tbh.
I'd rather see him running at Glen Johnson.
CORRECTION: Running at the vast area of free unmarked space left by Glen Johnson's diabolical positioning.
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Will i be happy or sad, next season when Ashley Young is running at Luke Young?...........................very happy tbh.
I'd rather see him running at Glen Johnson.
CORRECTION: Running at the vast area of free unmarked space left by Glen Johnson's diabolical positioning.
Ha ha, very good. And very true, too.
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If Martin O'Neill sells Luke Young to Liverpool - which looks increasingly likely - he's sticking two fingers up at the fans. Fuck the stupid, not up to the job twat.
Yes, I'm angry.
Randy, put us out of our misery... :(
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If Martin O'Neill sells Luke Young to Liverpool - which looks increasingly likely - he's sticking two fingers up at the fans. Fuck the stupid, not up to the job twat.
Yes, I'm angry.
Randy, put us out of our misery... :(
Yeah,we only went to Wembley twice last year,got closer to fourth,the selfish wanker.
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Yep.
Martin O'Neills Nearly Men Army!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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If Martin O'Neill sells Luke Young to Liverpool - which looks increasingly likely - he's sticking two fingers up at the fans. Fuck the stupid, not up to the job twat.
Yes, I'm angry.
Randy, put us out of our misery... :(
Yeah,we only went to Wembley twice last year,got closer to fourth,the selfish wanker.
What did we win? Where did we finish? Have we strengthened when our rivals have?
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East19, we have to disagree on this then. I think that Cuellar plays better in that position defensively, and helps the shape of the team better. We look more solid on set pieces. Cuellar doesnt attack or pass with the same skill I fully agree, he can have you crying with rage sometimes, but we have less cover in our midfield than some teams, so need more grit in our full backs. If I was the manager, I would be equally as hated as MON on this decision, as I think he has it right. The politics of who lies who aside, Im making my choice on purely what I have seen
Which other side in the top 6 plays a strapping central defender out of position at right back just for a bit of extra height at set pieces, at the expense of any sort of decent distribution? If it's such a good idea, why isn't Davies starting at left back?
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If Martin O'Neill sells Luke Young to Liverpool - which looks increasingly likely - he's sticking two fingers up at the fans. Fuck the stupid, not up to the job twat.
Yes, I'm angry.
Randy, put us out of our misery... :(
Yeah,we only went to Wembley twice last year,got closer to fourth,the selfish wanker.
What did we win? Where did we finish? Have we strengthened when our rivals have?
A place in the Europa league? He always leaves it late in the market,this is nothing new,and the teams who finish above us can and will always outspend us.
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I'm amazed that some people can argue that Cuellar playing at right back is a good idea. Wake up, for fuck sake.
The only time I can see your point is when were playing against a really tall, physical team and we have to not concede for our lives. A semi final or even a final.
Not while playing at home to teams like fucking Wolves.
I'm really pissed off about this situation. It's also pissing me off that we haven't been linked with any right backs.
If Carlos starts. There against west ham
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I dunno, we are pretty open as it is.
I'd say the general balance of our side isn't right, especially our midfield. But Milner isn't disciplined, Ashley is a hardworker but tends to hug the touchline and Downing does little defensively.
I think when we line up 4-4-2 Carlos is vital at right back, even if his distribution is very poor. Personally I think we should be playing 4-5-1 with attacking fullbacks, and Nige and Stan sitting, but that's just me.
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By letting him go is he pinning his hopes on Lichaj coming good?? Does he look like he could become a regular?
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Our first aim is not to lose, so we have a strong defence. If our first aim was to win, I could see the point of playing Luke.
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I just think that we have more chance of winning if we play players in the natural positions. Therefore a natural right back at right back.
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I just think that we have more chance of winning if we play players in the natural positions. Therefore a natural right back at right back.
A bit like England!
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I just think that we have more chance of winning if we play players in the natural positions. Therefore a natural right back at right back.
Theoretically you're right, PTV. The other point that shouldn't be ignored is the lack of defensive cover on the right by Downing. If by having a strong defensive full back allows Downing to concentrate more on his attacking duties, it does make some sense to play Carlos.
The fact that Downing was largely a waste of space last season shouldn't be ignored either. In an ideal world, I'd have Luke and Albrighton on the right. Albrighton, very much like Milner, is fantastic at supporting his full back.
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I also think Ashley Young is very good at defensive work for a small guy.
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Spot on mark, o neills teams are built not to lose rather than to go for the win- he is a negative manager and his substitutions reflect that.
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how do we know its 'highly' likely that he'l be going to Liverpool ?
or will this turn into another 30 pager, with no outcome
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Spot on mark, o neills teams are built not to lose rather than to go for the win- he is a negative manager and his substitutions reflect that.
What is a substitution?
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how do we know its 'highly' likely that he'l be going to Liverpool ?
or will this turn into another 30 pager, with no outcome
Because the manager has said outright that we've accepted a bid?
That has not been the case thus far for Milner, Sidwell or Heskey.
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how do we know its 'highly' likely that he'l be going to Liverpool ?
or will this turn into another 30 pager, with no outcome
Because the manager has said outright that we've accepted a bid?
That has not been the case thus far for Milner, Sidwell or Heskey.
ok. thanks for that,
i've not been able to keep up as i'm on holiday, just keep poping on to see if anythings changed while the kids are in the bath
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That said it's not a 'done deal' as Luke still has to agree to go.
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I'm amazed that some people can argue that Cuellar playing at right back is a good idea. Wake up, for fuck sake.
The only time I can see your point is when were playing against a really tall, physical team and we have to not concede for our lives. A semi final or even a final.
Not while playing at home to teams like fucking Wolves.
I'm really pissed off about this situation. It's also pissing me off that we haven't been linked with any right backs.
If Carlos starts. There against west ham
There is no excuse for playing Carlos at RB if we have specialists available. None at all, and it became embarrassing last season to see us look so fecking clueless down the right hand side. The excuse for playing Carlos at RB to add height in defence is pitiful - he should be playing in the centre anyway and rotating with Collins.
If MON thinks that it's going to be a good idea to persist with CC at RB then I'll give up.
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Young on his way to Portugal - so he's not going anywhere, yet.
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You just said he was going to Portugal.
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I'll set 'em up...
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Spot on mark, o neills teams are built not to lose rather than to go for the win- he is a negative manager and his substitutions reflect that.
What is a substitution?
Carew off husky on
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Bands need good bass players though not as much as guitarists, lead singers and drummers.
You only notice the bass player if he's shit.
Full back is the hardest working player on the pitch and is becoming increasingly important with every season that passes.
Very poor decision to let him go and a huge disappointment.
amen.
Time was you could get any jobbing player to play there, just hold the fort don't be too adventurous and keep it sensible.
Now it's one of the key positions in modern football. A good rightback needs to be defensively sound, possess good positional sense and read the game well. In modern formations, he will also have to overlap with the winger to give the attacking side a 2 on 1 advantage. Or in somecases, he'll be the only one providing width.
Luke -good though he is- is more from the old school. But still well worthy of a starting berth. Particularly if the competition is Cuellar or Beye.
I dunno what the solution is but I'm pretty certain Richards aint it. Tall and quick, but no positional sense to speak of. You could argue that with the right coaching that will come in time, but I'm not so sure. It's a pretty fundamental thing to be lacking this far into his career. I don't think we're the type of organised outfit that will work long hours on that type of thing either. I think MON and his staff just like good players to slot in and get on with it.
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Luke Young has risked the wrath of Aston Villa boss Martin O'Neill by stalling on a move to Liverpool as he wants a pay-off.
Liverpool have agreed a fee of £2.5million with Villa for the unsettled versatile defender, who earns currently around £40,000-a-week.
But Young is insisting on a 'golden goodbye' from Villa Park before leaving as he would have to take a drop in wages at Liverpool.
Right-back Young, 31, joined Villa in August 2008 from Middlesbrough on a bumper contract.
And his tough stance means his relationship with O'Neill is set to plummet to a new all-time low.
Young has been unhappy for months after being played left-back before losing his right-back berth to central defender Carlos Cuellar.
And O'Neill now needs to generate funds for transfers after being ordered to sell-to-buy this summer.
O'Neill has been told to cut the club's annual £70m wage bill before owner Randy Lerner sanctions any new additions.
And the Villa boss has warned Young he may not be included in their official 25-man Premier League squad if he rejects the chance to go.
"We will see how that develops," said O'Neill, who has omitted Young from Villa's squad for this weekend's Guadiana Cup in Portugal.
"He is having a think about it. If he chooses to go that's it, if he chooses to stay then he needs to start playing because with the new rules I have to name a 25-man squad for the Premier League."
Read more: http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Liverpool-transfer-news-Young-s-Anfield-move-in-doubt-over-Aston-Villa-pay-off-Exclusive-article539215.html#ixzz0v1MGIqI4
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Is James Nursey physically capable of stringing together a sentence not including the phrase "sell to buy"?
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I know the Mirror love their rubbish, almost-libellous stories, but why do they have to focus on us? It's irksome, that's the word for it, irksome.
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Everyones looking for a handout, he wants money off Villa because Liverpool will only pay him what he's worth. How old is he 31, he is lucky Liverpool even want him. I like him as a player but they all live in fantasy land. Wish it would all come tumbling down around them.
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Agreed! The ludicrous wages being paid and the sheer greed in football is killing our game.
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I know he's not necessarily looking to move out but FFS, he's just spent a year earning probably about £2m for doing sweet fuck all.
I know that's not necessarily his fault but still, come on.
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He'll be off somewhere else.
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I know he's not necessarily looking to move out but FFS, he's just spent a year earning probably about £2m for doing sweet fuck all.
I know that's not necessarily his fault but still, come on.
This all just shows the folly of treating people like O'Neill does.
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No, it just shows what greedy bastards people are at times.
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No, it just shows what greedy bastards people are at times.
Sorry LeeB it should be 'professional footballers' not people
people inhabit the real world and do real world things
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If this deal does collapse, then Luke Young is an idiot. He couldn't ask for a better move (although it feels dirty saying that about Liverpool) and he's clearly not wanted at Villa, unfortunately.
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No, it just shows what greedy bastards people are at times.
Sorry LeeB it should be 'professional footballers' not people
people inhabit the real world and do real world things
Correct. I apologise for tarring normal folk with the same brush.
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Call his bluff. Tell him he can either accept the move to Liverpool or spend the rest of his contract without a squad number and without any chance of first team football.
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Fair play Luke, Fuck over MON as much as he did you last season!
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How long's he got left on his contract, two years?
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Call his bluff. Tell him he can either accept the move to Liverpool or spend the rest of his contract without a squad number and without any chance of first team football.
I think he knows that's not going to be an option for O'Neill.
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Fair play Luke, Fuck over MON as much as he did you last season!
Fucking over MON means fucking over Villa.
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How long's he got left on his contract, two years?
I think so. I thought it was normal practice for players to get paid the difference on their contract if they didn't request a contract. I assumed we'd also have to come to some agreement with Heskey, should he leave.
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Fair play Luke, Fuck over MON as much as he did you last season!
Jesus, it comes to something when somebody claiming to be a Villa fan wants a player we are selling to screw us.
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If they can afford to pay Joe Cole £90k a week, they can afford Luke's wages!!
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Everyones looking for a handout, he wants money off Villa because Liverpool will only pay him what he's worth. How old is he 31, he is lucky Liverpool even want him. I like him as a player but they all live in fantasy land. Wish it would all come tumbling down around them.
He's not looking for a handout though. He's looking for what he's legally entitled to - ie compensation for termination of his contract.
Sounds to me that it's the Villa management team who are living in fantasy land if they expect to offload the higher wage earners on the cheap.
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Call his bluff. Tell him he can either accept the move to Liverpool or spend the rest of his contract without a squad number and without any chance of first team football.
I think he knows that's not going to be an option for O'Neill.
How do you think the prospect of two years training either alone or with the youth would sit with Mr Young? With no chance of any competitive football unless for the reserve team? And substantial fines unless he plays it exactly by the book. How long do you think he would last?
No wonder he couldn't get in the side last year if that's his attitude.
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Fair play Luke, Fuck over MON as much as he did you last season!
Jesus, it comes to something when somebody claiming to be a Villa fan wants a player we are selling to screw us.
I want him to get the money he is entitled to, that will be covered by the sale at an amount we accepted.
Put yourself in his position: youve spent a year sat on the bench watching someone who doesn't even play your position take your place, you'd feel a bit miffed, and then your finally leaving and you realise you legally should be paid a leaving fee. Then you have EVERY right to want it.
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Fair play Luke, Fuck over MON as much as he did you last season!
Jesus, it comes to something when somebody claiming to be a Villa fan wants a player we are selling to screw us.
I want him to get the money he is entitled to, that will be covered by the sale at an amount we accepted.
Put yourself in his position: youve spent a year sat on the bench watching someone who doesn't even play your position take your place, you'd feel a bit miffed, and then your finally leaving and you realise you legally should be paid a leaving fee. Then you have EVERY right to want it.
By refusing to travel to Ireland so he could sort out a move he was saying that he didn't want to play for us again. That's as good as asking for a transfer, we're perfectly right to stand our ground on this.
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I would suggest if he had been a better player, he wouldnt have sat on the bench.
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Everyones looking for a handout, he wants money off Villa because Liverpool will only pay him what he's worth. How old is he 31, he is lucky Liverpool even want him. I like him as a player but they all live in fantasy land. Wish it would all come tumbling down around them.
He's not looking for a handout though. He's looking for what he's legally entitled to - ie compensation for termination of his contract.
Sounds to me that it's the Villa management team who are living in fantasy land if they expect to offload the higher wage earners on the cheap.
This. Its martins choice to offload, not Lukes!
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Fair play Luke, Fuck over MON as much as he did you last season!
Jesus, it comes to something when somebody claiming to be a Villa fan wants a player we are selling to screw us.
I want him to get the money he is entitled to, that will be covered by the sale at an amount we accepted.
Put yourself in his position: youve spent a year sat on the bench watching someone who doesn't even play your position take your place, you'd feel a bit miffed, and then your finally leaving and you realise you legally should be paid a leaving fee. Then you have EVERY right to want it.
Maybe if Young put in the required effort and level of performance that cemented the position his rather than feeling miffed about how hard done by he was then he might not have found himself in this position. That effort and level of performance is something that MON, the club and it's supporters have every right to insist on.
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Fair play Luke, Fuck over MON as much as he did you last season!
Jesus, it comes to something when somebody claiming to be a Villa fan wants a player we are selling to screw us.
A "fan" that refused to celebrate any goal that Heskey was involved in. Not that he had much of a chance to show this pathetic behaviour.
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Put yourself in his position: youve spent a year sat on the bench watching someone who doesn't even play your position take your place, you'd feel a bit miffed, and then your finally leaving and you realise you legally should be paid a leaving fee. Then you have EVERY right to want it.
Put yourself in the position of being a Villa fan and realise that every £1m we give to one of today's greedy players to get rid of him is another £1m we can't spend on improving our side, the one YOU support!
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I would suggest if he had been a better player, he wouldnt have sat on the bench.
He wasn't on the bench because he wasn't good enough.
He was on the bench because O'Neill thinks he can act like Brian Clough and treat players how he wants. Shame O'Neill isn't half the manager Clough was.
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A "fan" that refused to celebrate any goal that Heskey was involved in.
if you like us having one less player on the pitch than the opposition then thats your choice.
Not that he had much of a chance to show this pathetic behaviour.
I didnt have much chance, as he never scores, and therefore i am correct to want the useless donkey out of our club. Thanks for at the same time lambasting me and then backing it up with the reasoning why i am right.
Some of us want us to compete, to do that you need to score "goals"
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I would suggest if he had been a better player, he wouldnt have sat on the bench.
He wasn't on the bench because he wasn't good enough.
He was on the bench because O'Neill thinks he can act like Brian Clough and treat players how he wants. Shame O'Neill isn't half the manager Clough was.
He was on the bench because in his absence we had the best defence in the league. He now seems prepared to go to Liverpool to sit on their bench as long as we'll pay him to go.
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I would suggest if he had been a better player, he wouldnt have sat on the bench.
He wasn't on the bench because he wasn't good enough.
He was on the bench because O'Neill thinks he can act like Brian Clough and treat players how he wants. Shame O'Neill isn't half the manager Clough was.
He was on the bench because the manager decided he didn't fit into the team. That's his job. What the feck has Brian Clough got to do with it?
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What's all this about how MON has treated Luke Young? Has there been some inside scoop on what went on behind closed doors then?
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He asked to him to play left-back which as we all know is an infringement of his human rights.
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I would suggest if he had been a better player, he wouldnt have sat on the bench.
He wasn't on the bench because he wasn't good enough.
He was on the bench because O'Neill thinks he can act like Brian Clough and treat players how he wants. Shame O'Neill isn't half the manager Clough was.
He was on the bench because in his absence we had the best defence in the league. He now seems prepared to go to Liverpool to sit on their bench as long as we'll pay him to go.
I agree that Young should have played more, but it is a good point that with a back 4 defending so well, when and how do you tell one of them they're dropped?
I think the error of Martin's in this regard is his genreral reluctance to change the side and make better use of the squad, than it is anything specifiic to Cuellar and Luke Young.
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A "fan" that refused to celebrate any goal that Heskey was involved in.
if you like us having one less player on the pitch than the opposition then thats your choice.
Not that he had much of a chance to show this pathetic behaviour.
I didnt have much chance, as he never scores, and therefore i am correct to want the useless donkey out of our club. Thanks for at the same time lambasting me and then backing it up with the reasoning why i am right.
Some of us want us to compete, to do that you need to score "goals"
I want Heskey out of here on the next Stage, but not cheering a goal he was involved with? Are you 12 years old?
I dont believe you anyway.
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By refusing to travel to Ireland so he could sort out a move he was saying that he didn't want to play for us again. That's as good as asking for a transfer, we're perfectly right to stand our ground on this.
That's stretching reason even for you.
I'm sure no one knows for certain he 'refused' to travel, seems RL wanted him to stay to finish helping negotiate his move to Liverpool, is all. One of the problems with these high flying contracts for players you don't play, when you upset them they can stick to the letter of the law and screw you back. Seems Mon no longer has that worry if what he said yesterday was true, but Villa still have the worry of sorting his past errors, like Luke.
Has Harewood gone yet, Salifou, Shorey, Sidwell, Davies, Reo Coker? No wonder RL has been over here recently plenty to sort out.
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What's all this about how MON has treated Luke Young? Has there been some inside scoop on what went on behind closed doors then?
I can only assume that MON has written personally to PaultheVillan outlining his harsh 'Victorian Dad' style of management.
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What's all this about how MON has treated Luke Young? Has there been some inside scoop on what went on behind closed doors then?
I can only assume that MON has written personally to PaultheVillan outlining his harsh 'Victorian Dad' style of management.
Correct.
:)
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A "fan" that refused to celebrate any goal that Heskey was involved in.
if you like us having one less player on the pitch than the opposition then thats your choice.
Not that he had much of a chance to show this pathetic behaviour.
I didnt have much chance, as he never scores, and therefore i am correct to want the useless donkey out of our club. Thanks for at the same time lambasting me and then backing it up with the reasoning why i am right.
Some of us want us to compete, to do that you need to score "goals"
I want Heskey out of here on the next Stage, but not cheering a goal he was involved with? Are you 12 years old?
I dont believe you anyway.
Dont believe me? Hah. one poster on Villa Views / villatalk i used to say bye to when he came on.
Im not 12 i just cant see the point of wasting my time watching him. its like cheering a blind kid at a claypidgeon shooting contest when hes facing expert marksmen. Pointless.
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A "fan" that refused to celebrate any goal that Heskey was involved in.
if you like us having one less player on the pitch than the opposition then thats your choice.
Not that he had much of a chance to show this pathetic behaviour.
I didnt have much chance, as he never scores, and therefore i am correct to want the useless donkey out of our club. Thanks for at the same time lambasting me and then backing it up with the reasoning why i am right.
Some of us want us to compete, to do that you need to score "goals"
I also want us to sell Heskey. But I celebrated his goals as much as I celebrated goals scored by Gabby and Carew. Just like you did really, but thought you'd quite like attention on a Villa message board by acting like a child.
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Haha.
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Fair play Luke, Fuck over MON as much as he did you last season!
Jesus, it comes to something when somebody claiming to be a Villa fan wants a player we are selling to screw us.
I want him to get the money he is entitled to, that will be covered by the sale at an amount we accepted.
Put yourself in his position: youve spent a year sat on the bench watching someone who doesn't even play your position take your place, you'd feel a bit miffed, and then your finally leaving and you realise you legally should be paid a leaving fee. Then you have EVERY right to want it.
By refusing to travel to Ireland so he could sort out a move he was saying that he didn't want to play for us again. That's as good as asking for a transfer, we're perfectly right to stand our ground on this.
How do you know he refused to travel? The club had accepted an offer for him so he wouldn't have been taken anyway. He stayed behind to negotiate with Liverpool.
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A "fan" that refused to celebrate any goal that Heskey was involved in.
if you like us having one less player on the pitch than the opposition then thats your choice.
Not that he had much of a chance to show this pathetic behaviour.
I didnt have much chance, as he never scores, and therefore i am correct to want the useless donkey out of our club. Thanks for at the same time lambasting me and then backing it up with the reasoning why i am right.
Some of us want us to compete, to do that you need to score "goals"
I also want us to sell Heskey. But I celebrated his goals as much as I celebrated goals scored by Gabby and Carew. Just like you did really, but thought you'd quite like attention on a Villa message board by acting like a child.
you honestly dont know how wrong you are.
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By refusing to travel to Ireland so he could sort out a move he was saying that he didn't want to play for us again. That's as good as asking for a transfer, we're perfectly right to stand our ground on this.
That's stretching reason even for you.
I'm sure no one knows for certain he 'refused' to travel, seems RL wanted him to stay to finish helping negotiate his move to Liverpool, is all. One of the problems with these high flying contracts for players you don't play, when you upset them they can stick to the letter of the law and screw you back. Seems Mon no longer has that worry if what he said yesterday was true, but Villa still have the worry of sorting his past errors, like Luke.
Has Harewood gone yet, Salifou, Shorey, Sidwell, Davies, Reo Coker? No wonder RL has been over here recently plenty to sort out.
The Ireland trip was a week ago, the Liverpool bid only came out on Tuesday so that makes no sense.
If he has given any indication that he wanst to leave rather than honour his contract then we are entitled to question his eligibility to get a pay off. I'd love to have to negotiate with you or Stevenjos, you'd be such pushovers.
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its like cheering a blind kid at a claypidgeon shooting contest when hes facing expert marksmen. Pointless.
Not really. Its like cheering somebody who has just improved the fortunes of the football team you're supposed to support.
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A "fan" that refused to celebrate any goal that Heskey was involved in.
if you like us having one less player on the pitch than the opposition then thats your choice.
Not that he had much of a chance to show this pathetic behaviour.
I didnt have much chance, as he never scores, and therefore i am correct to want the useless donkey out of our club. Thanks for at the same time lambasting me and then backing it up with the reasoning why i am right.
Some of us want us to compete, to do that you need to score "goals"
I also want us to sell Heskey. But I celebrated his goals as much as I celebrated goals scored by Gabby and Carew. Just like you did really, but thought you'd quite like attention on a Villa message board by acting like a child.
you honestly dont know how wrong you are.
Haha.
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Fair play Luke, Fuck over MON as much as he did you last season!
Jesus, it comes to something when somebody claiming to be a Villa fan wants a player we are selling to screw us.
I want him to get the money he is entitled to, that will be covered by the sale at an amount we accepted.
Put yourself in his position: youve spent a year sat on the bench watching someone who doesn't even play your position take your place, you'd feel a bit miffed, and then your finally leaving and you realise you legally should be paid a leaving fee. Then you have EVERY right to want it.
By refusing to travel to Ireland so he could sort out a move he was saying that he didn't want to play for us again. That's as good as asking for a transfer, we're perfectly right to stand our ground on this.
How do you know he refused to travel? The club had accepted an offer for him so he wouldn't have been taken anyway. He stayed behind to negotiate with Liverpool.
I'm not aware of any offer being accepted last week. I am aware of the quote from the club that he chose to stay behind.
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Who cares?
They bid, we accepted, they talked, it fell through.
He'll go somewhere else.
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its like cheering a blind kid at a claypidgeon shooting contest when hes facing expert marksmen. Pointless.
Not really. Its clike heering somebody who has just improved the fortunes of the football team you're supposed to support.
How the F**K has a tw*t who cant run, doesnt get in the box, doesnt score and slows down our play improved us? my god you are actually insane if you think he's improved our fortunes? He's held us back. He stopped our top scorer playing for half the season!
from now on you are MADrim.
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its like cheering a blind kid at a claypidgeon shooting contest when hes facing expert marksmen. Pointless.
Not really. Its clike heering somebody who has just improved the fortunes of the football team you're supposed to support.
How the F**K has a tw*t who cant run, doesnt get in the box, doesnt score and slows down our play improved us? my god you are actually insane if you think he's improved our fortunes? He's held us back. He stopped our top scorer playing for half the season!
from now on you are MADrim.
Errm, because he'd have just scored.
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When someone at work isn't say, a whizz at Excel, or maybe a better mechanic than others, do they automatically become useless twats etc. etc etc?
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its like cheering a blind kid at a claypidgeon shooting contest when hes facing expert marksmen. Pointless.
Not really. Its clike heering somebody who has just improved the fortunes of the football team you're supposed to support.
How the F**K has a tw*t who cant run, doesnt get in the box, doesnt score and slows down our play improved us? my god you are actually insane if you think he's improved our fortunes? He's held us back. He stopped our top scorer playing for half the season!
from now on you are MADrim.
Errm, because he'd have just scored.
dont be silly. Heskey doesnt score.
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dont be silly. Heskey doesnt score.
Yeah, I remember that goalless draw at Portsmouth on his debut.
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You don't get a whole lot right, do you steven?
These used to be reserved for the very special thoughts of gregnash but you're on a whole new level so...
(http://demotivatorsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/1108845-godzilla_facepalm_godzilla_facepalm_face_palm_epic_fail_demotivational_poster_1245384435_super.jpg)
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dont be silly. Heskey doesnt score.
Yeah, I remember that goalless draw at Portsmouth on his debut.
I wonder if he cheered the goal that night?
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dont be silly. Heskey doesnt score.
Yeah, I remember that goalless draw at Portsmouth on his debut.
I wonder if he cheered the goal that night?
I heard he started a petition that we should hand the 3 points back.
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dont be silly. Heskey doesnt score.
Yeah, I remember that goalless draw at Portsmouth on his debut.
I wonder if he cheered the goal that night?
I heard he started a petition that we should hand the 3 points back.
id prefer to start a petition for the 35 games he's wasted our time and done fuck all, than mention one of the 5 games he did his job.
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dont be silly. Heskey doesnt score.
Yeah, I remember that goalless draw at Portsmouth on his debut.
I wonder if he cheered the goal that night?
I heard he started a petition that we should hand the 3 points back.
id prefer to start a petition for the 35 games he's wasted our time and done fuck all, than mention one of the 5 games he did his job.
I'd sign it, but that doesn't mean I won't he happy when he does score.
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I think Steven may have been in the same train carriage as me en route to the Carling Cup final. There was a bloke loudly going on about not cheering heskey scoring, and he said that he was at loggerheads with the users of an entire internet messageboard because of it.
It was all very odd.
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Let's leave it there please.
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why would somebody not cheer when we score?
i hate heskey with a passion and think he is one fo the single most useless donkey jism leaks going, but if he scores, then we have a goal, and i am cheering that...
unfortunately, he doesnt do it very often, along with being shit at everything else other than falling over, but a goal for the villa, is a goal for the villa..
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How long's he got left on his contract, two years?
I think so. I thought it was normal practice for players to get paid the difference on their contract if they didn't request a contract. I assumed we'd also have to come to some agreement with Heskey, should he leave.
I've got a tax rebate coming my way, i'm prepared to chip in.
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I won a bit of money on the World Cup, I'll contribute.
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I've just been in the park sitting near Harry Redknapp and he got up and left a brown paper bag behind. Count me in for a few grand.
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I think Luke Young is worth a place in the squad at least, don't get this move, other than to raise that all important cash we seem to be struggling to find.
Yes Cullar had a much improved season last time out, but long term I don't see him as a full back.
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I don't think it's a very good idea.
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I like Luke Young and would be a bit unhappy not to play if I was him. However, the prospect of a clean break at a club like Liverpool is far too good to ignore.
He's entitled to a pay off but he's just being foolish to argue over it and scupper such a move.
However, is it not concerning that Liverpool are unwilling to pay the wages we pay to someone who is to all intents and purposes a squad player here?
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How long's he got left on his contract, two years?
I think so. I thought it was normal practice for players to get paid the difference on their contract if they didn't request a contract. I assumed we'd also have to come to some agreement with Heskey, should he leave.
I've got a tax rebate coming my way, i'm prepared to chip in.
I have 6p on my desk. I'll make a contribution.
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However, is it not concerning that Liverpool are unwilling to pay the wages we pay to someone who is to all intents and purposes a squad player here?
The wages he was brought in on were those of a 1st choice, which he was and unfortunately isn't anymore.
If they're paying Joe Cole £90k a week, I'd hazard a guess they can pay him what he wants should they wish. Maybe they feel our eagerness to reduce our wagebill means we'll give him the golden handshake? I feel the oily hand of an agent at work here!!
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However, is it not concerning that Liverpool are unwilling to pay the wages we pay to someone who is to all intents and purposes a squad player here?
The wages he was brought in on were those of a 1st choice, which he was and unfortunately isn't anymore.
If they're paying Joe Cole £90k a week, I'd hazard a guess they can pay him what he wants should they wish. Maybe they feel our eagerness to reduce our wagebill means we'll give him the golden handshake? I feel the oily hand of an agent at work here!!
Probably true.
I have very little sympathy with the player or agent in the case anyway. It's not like he or Luke will need the money and it is a good move for the player.
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Yes, but notwithstanding whether the player needs the money, it's fairly standard now that if a player is sold and has not requested the transfer, he'll be compensated in some way. It's contractual. Same as managers who are sacked, they're compensated.
It's why very very few players actually hand in proper transfer requests these days, and why very few managers resign - they wait until pushed.
I don't Luke's asking for anything out of the ordinary in this instance, if true.
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It's why very very few players actually hand in proper transfer requests these days, and why very few managers resign - they wait until pushed.
It's one of my biggest gripes with modern football - they'll say they want to go and instruct their agent to make sure the move happens, but not do it officially so they can pocket an extra few hundred grand from their present club. See G. Barry 2 years ago and most likely J. Milner right now!
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I don't blame Young, Let's hope MON realises that treating players like shit does not do him any favours.
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I don't blame Young, Let's hope MON realises that treating players like shit does not do him any favours.
He hasn't been treated like shit, what a silly thing to say.
The manager picks the team, that's his job and he prefered Cuellar to him and our defensive record last season justifies that choice.
Let's hope that the other players realise that bleating to the press when you're replaceable doesn't do you any favours.
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When did he bleat to the press?
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I don't blame Young, Let's hope MON realises that treating players like shit does not do him any favours.
Neither does pampering to their egos and giving them everything they want all the time. That does not benefit manager or club!
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When did he bleat to the press?
Here (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/astonvilla/7758903/Luke-Young-set-for-Aston-Villa-exit-following-fall-out-with-Martin-ONeill.html)
He also openly criticised the Moscow decision. And having to play left back.
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I don't blame Young, Let's hope MON realises that treating players like shit does not do him any favours.
Neither does pampering to their egos and giving them everything they want all the time. That does not benefit manager or club!
Like he does, with Ashley Young, Petrov, and Heskey you mean.
Since when does spending fortunes on players to never play them, mostly because they have upset him one way or another benefited the club either ?
The O'Neill is God bubble burst some time ago, catch up
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I don't blame Young, Let's hope MON realises that treating players like shit does not do him any favours.
Neither does pampering to their egos and giving them everything they want all the time. That does not benefit manager or club!
Like he does, with Ashley Young, Petrov, and Heskey you mean.
Since when does spending fortunes on players to never play them, mostly because they have upset him one way or another benefited the club either ?
The O'Neill is God bubble burst some time ago, catch up
No, I won't even attempt to 'catch up' as I simply don't agree with you. Deal with it.
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When did he bleat to the press?
Here (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/astonvilla/7758903/Luke-Young-set-for-Aston-Villa-exit-following-fall-out-with-Martin-ONeill.html)
He also openly criticised the Moscow decision. And having to play left back.
there you are he's not only a good footballer he speaks the truth too.
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No, I won't even attempt to 'catch up' as I simply don't agree with you. Deal with it.
Nah
I never argue with an idiot. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
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Hard to be dragged down when you're already on the bottom rung of the ladder.
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The manager picks the team, that's his job and he prefered Cuellar to him and our defensive record last season justifies that choice.
Let's hope that the other players realise that bleating to the press when you're replaceable doesn't do you any favours.
Let's hope that the manager realises that he's not Brian Clough or Alex Ferguson, and that more and more players seem to be getting the hump with him.
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When did he bleat to the press?
Here (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/astonvilla/7758903/Luke-Young-set-for-Aston-Villa-exit-following-fall-out-with-Martin-ONeill.html)
He also openly criticised the Moscow decision. And having to play left back.
there you are he's not only a good footballer he speaks the truth too.
still cant believe MON brought him back for the cheski game... when we need an attacking fullback againt the like of wolves and west hams at home, he played defensive Cullar and then when we played free scoring chelski, he drops cuellar for Young...Strange decision
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Tensions are running high in here chaps, I find john m usually puts a fairly balanced view of things , unlike some people who just agree with everything o neill says and does , I do agree though that o neill hasn't really given luke a fair crack at right back and I feel we are at best now standing still under his management.
I do not see mr o neill lasting much longer but I respect the views of people who do.
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Yet again - pack in the personal stuff. Naughty step for the next transgressor.
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I can't believe all this myth that MON thinks he's Clough. You can admire someone without wanting to be him.
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I don't think that, but I do think there will be elements of Clough's management style he has picked up and/or will try to emulate. Don't think you can play for someone like that without them having an influence on you.
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It's when he walks out in an old green sweater we need to start worrying.
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Or when he starts punching the fans. I can think of a few candidates he'd probably like to get his hands on.....
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I don't think that would solely be limited to him or even the most positive percentiles on this site.
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I don't blame Young, Let's hope MON realises that treating players like shit does not do him any favours.
He hasn't been treated like shit, what a silly thing to say.
The manager picks the team, that's his job and he prefered Cuellar to him and our defensive record last season justifies that choice.
Let's hope that the other players realise that bleating to the press when you're replaceable doesn't do you any favours.
Its my belief that he was Chris and please don't call me silly.
He did absolutely nothing wrong, He tried to get back in the team and was ignored. He even said so. The mighty mon turned round and said those that were up for sale had themselves to blame. It looks like he's going to be going anyway so its not that important now. He isn't the only one treated badly by mon, Ask Beye, Shorey, Sidwell NRC, Luke Moore, Maloney and there are more to add to that list and probably will be more in the future.
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Sky Sports:
Skysports.com understands Fulham are leading the race to sign Aston Villa defender Luke Young.
Liverpool appeared to be favourites to land the versatile defender after agreeing a deal with Villa, but it understood the move has collapsed as the player does not want to move his family north.
The former Tottenham and Charlton man is believed to be holding out for a move back to the capital as he seeks a switch away from Villa.
Villa are ready to offload Young after he dropped well down the pecking order in Martin O'Neill's plans.
A number of clubs including Sunderland and Fulham are believed to have expressed an interest in the 31-year-old, but Fulham are favourites for his signature.
Fulham have held a long-term interest in Young and incoming boss Mark Hughes is believed to be ready to push through a deal for the former England international as he looks to bolster the squad at Craven Cottage.
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Can't imagine fulham will find it easier to afford his wages than liverpool, unless we pay him off. that said i'd prefer to sell our best right-back to a team not challenging for the top 4.
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Move to Liverpool in doubt because Luke Young wants a pay off from us due to lower wage offered by Lpool.
Greedy f*cker. Should pay back some money for being a complete arse last season.
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Is using "understands"trademarked by Sky Sports? It really is their own personal licence to state or print bullshit.
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He's clearly going, so I'd rather he just left and we got him off the wage bill.
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Can't imagine fulham will find it easier to afford his wages than liverpool, unless we pay him off. that said i'd prefer to sell our best right-back to a team not challenging for the top 4.
Yes but Greg. That story about his pay off was from Nursey in the Mirror which makes it less reliable than the story I just made up that we are set to sign Wesley Sneijder. It could be quite possible that the version of events stated here that he wouldn't want to move North is correct.
That said it ignores the fact we signed him from the well known London club Middlesborough
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Is using "understands"trademarked by Sky Sports? It really is their own personal licence to state or print bullshit.
They read other journalists tweets on twitter and then use them.
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'BBC Sport understands' is used to.
'BBC Sport understands Martin O'Neill won't be making any signings this transfer window.'
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Can't imagine fulham will find it easier to afford his wages than liverpool, unless we pay him off. that said i'd prefer to sell our best right-back to a team not challenging for the top 4.
Yes but Greg. That story about his pay off was from Nursey in the Mirror which makes it less reliable than the story I just made up that we are set to sign Wesley Sneijder. It could be quite possible that the version of events stated here that he wouldn't want to move North is correct.
That said it ignores the fact we signed him from the well known London club Middlesborough
I'd agree he's not money motivated, but then again i wouldn't say he has no ambition even at 31. - after all he wants to leave cos MON won't play him.. I mean Liverpool or Fulham, who would you choose when he could catch a flight to London in an hour from liverpool?
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Not that easy Greg, training most days, he could batch it up there and go home on Sundays. The wives have a big say i reckon.
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Greg may have hit upon something there. Maybe he just wants to play.
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Dunno. i wouild say Liverpool would be too hard to turn down even at Young's age. If its true.
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He didn't want to feature in England squads just to spend long stints sitting on the bench. Despite Capello asking him personally to reconsider.
So first team football at Fulham or another southern club might appeal more.
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Liverpool aren't quite the force they were. I'd say they're in a similar position to ourselves - playing catch-up to City and Spurs. It would be a sideways move in almost every respect: mainly a squad player, same position in the league, only actually paid less. I imagine at Fulham he'd play every week, he's better than Pantsil or Konchesky.
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Liverpool aren't quite the force they were. I'd say they're in a similar position to ourselves - playing catch-up to City and Spurs. It would be a sideways move in almost every respect: mainly a squad player, same position in the league, only actually paid less. I imagine at Fulham he'd play every week, he's better than Pantsil or Konchesky.
He's a better right back than what liverpool have - at defending anyway. I'd back him to play often with a manager who rates him.
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He is a better defensive right back than Glen Johnson, but he's a worse defensive right back than Carlos Cuellar, and though he's better at attacking than the latter he's worse at attacking than the former. Bit of a no-win situation for him at either club.
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Hughes has just been confirmed as Fulham manager, so we will see if the Sidwell and Young moves are going to happen.
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Personally i don't rate johnson at all. He got flogged by mourinho quick enough and he knows defenders. to me i'd play young every time.
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Liverpool aren't quite the force they were. I'd say they're in a similar position to ourselves - playing catch-up to City and Spurs. It would be a sideways move in almost every respect: mainly a squad player, same position in the league, only actually paid less. I imagine at Fulham he'd play every week, he's better than Pantsil or Konchesky.
One difference is that they rarely go more than two or three years without winning a trophy.
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Liverpool aren't quite the force they were. I'd say they're in a similar position to ourselves - playing catch-up to City and Spurs. It would be a sideways move in almost every respect: mainly a squad player, same position in the league, only actually paid less. I imagine at Fulham he'd play every week, he's better than Pantsil or Konchesky.
One difference is that they rarely go more than two or three years without winning a trophy.
Except that their spells between winning trophies have significantly increased since the late 80s. Right this second, they're a club with a huge debt crisis and in the middle of a drastic reconstruction of both their team and their expectations.
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Except that their spells between winning trophies have significantly increased since the late 80s. Right this second, they're a club with a huge debt crisis and in the middle of a drastic reconstruction of both their team and their expectations.
Six in the last ten years (Eight if you count the Super Cup).
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What you said was years between winning trophies, and they won half of those six in a single year. On numbers, sure, it's been a good decade, but they've won as much as us since MON took over here, and right now they're a club who've seriously downgraded.
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What you said was years between winning trophies, and they won half of those six in a single year. On numbers, sure, it's been a good decade, but they've won as much as us since MON took over here, and right now they're a club who've seriously downgraded.
It makes no odds how many were won in a single year and how you claim they've downgraded, the fact is that Liverpool, in what for them is a poor spell, constantly win more than we do and will be a better bet for further honours.
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I'm not denying that, Dave, I merely meant that I don't feel Liverpool are enough of a better bet than us for further honours for Luke to be happy on their bench. Man Utd, fine, but Liverpool? Not right now.
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I'm not denying that, Dave, I merely meant that I don't feel Liverpool are enough of a better bet than us for further honours for Luke to be happy on their bench. Man Utd, fine, but Liverpool? Not right now.
I wish, but I always get the feeling that even in a bad year Liverpool can put in enough good results in the right games to win something.
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They've got the individuals, or rather the individual (Torres), who they can rely on to win games through a moment of brilliance (maybe we can also include Joe Cole here - Gerrard's seriously waning with age). Ash aside, we don't really have that, but I do think we've got a more solid all-round team.
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I do like listening to people that talk sense. Thank you both.
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One things for sure , Liverpool will win a trophy long before we do under mon!
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They've got the individuals, or rather the individual (Torres), who they can rely on to win games through a moment of brilliance (maybe we can also include Joe Cole here - Gerrard's seriously waning with age). Ash aside, we don't really have that, but I do think we've got a more solid all-round team.
Our lack of big game players has been an obsession of mine almost as long as our lack of running off the ball.
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I mind more about the running off the ball thing, to be honest. We've got the talent who, if utilised more properly, would be the big names we all want.
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I mind more about the running off the ball thing, to be honest. We've got the talent who, if utilised more properly, would be the big names we all want.
Or more to the point they will become the big names Manchester city will want.
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I mind more about the running off the ball thing, to be honest. We've got the talent who, if utilised more properly, would be the big names we all want.
Or more to the point they will become the big names Manchester city will want.
Indeed! But it shows how erroneous the Galacticos policy of 'big-name signings' is, because the type of team understanding that, say, Barca have cannot be bought in a summer - it must be worked on for a decade.
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To do that you've got to win a trophy. It would totally change the mind-set of the players to pick up a cup.
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Vicious circle.
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Perhaps he just isn't willing to fight for his place in a better than average team.
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I'm not denying that, Dave, I merely meant that I don't feel Liverpool are enough of a better bet than us for further honours for Luke to be happy on their bench. Man Utd, fine, but Liverpool? Not right now.
I wish, but I always get the feeling that even in a bad year Liverpool can put in enough good results in the right games to win something.
agree and hodgson is no idiot, i woulld be much more confident about our future if we had him as our manager
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Speaking with regards to the future of Liverpool and Hodgson, I think they’ve chosen a safe pair of hands to keep the seat warm for two or three seasons until they get taken over.
Which gives us a limited window of opportunity, before you’ve got four clubs in the top four, with more money than the last lot.
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I'm not denying that, Dave, I merely meant that I don't feel Liverpool are enough of a better bet than us for further honours for Luke to be happy on their bench. Man Utd, fine, but Liverpool? Not right now.
I wish, but I always get the feeling that even in a bad year Liverpool can put in enough good results in the right games to win something.
agree and hodgson is no idiot, i woulld be much more confident about our future if we had him as our manager
I remember a while back I was discussing this with a fellow poster and we were thinking what it would be like on here if we went out and signed a thirty odd year old Danny Murphy and spent £12million on Andy Johnson.
He's still a damn good manager though but he's still (slightly like MoN) merely a safe pair of hands rather than an outright genius.
My dad met him once when he was manager of Bristol City.
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He was linked with us in 2002 when Gregory left. If we'd had him then there woud have been outrage. Now he's the most popular and one of the most respected managers in the country.
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He was linked with us in 2002 when Gregory left. If we'd had him then there woud have been outrage. Now he's the most popular and one of the most respected managers in the country.
he looked out of his depth at Bburn but it was a difficult act to follow, you cant buy experience
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He was linked with us in 2002 when Gregory left. If we'd had him then there woud have been outrage. Now he's the most popular and one of the most respected managers in the country.
he looked out of his depth at Bburn but it was a difficult act to follow, you cant buy experience
Blackburn also had off the field problems at the time, although he did get them sixth.
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I know very few will agree with me on this, but Liverpool's managers since Evans have generally been very good and knowledgable. Their downfall has been that they have not been able to manage expectations. Hodgson is probably smart enough to realize this.
The difference between O'Neill and Hodgson is not very big, but Hodgson seems to have more technical expertise, ie is better to organize a team defensively and making them consistently difficult to break down.
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I know very few will agree with me on this, but Liverpool's managers since Evans have generally been very good and knowledgable. Their downfall has been that they have not been able to manage expectations. Hodgson is probably smart enough to realize this.
The difference between O'Neill and Hodgson is not very big, but Hodgson seems to have more technical expertise, ie is better to organize a team defensively and making them consistently difficult to break down.
He's a horses for courses type man. He is lucky that it will be very difficult to repeat last seasons poor showing whatever he does and will probably have more success, however limited, than his talents probably deserve.
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Looks like the deal has collapsed. Can't believe we want to sell him. Once again 4 years on we haven't got the correct cover at full-back, Shorey will leave soon. Wish I hadn't bothered with a seasion ticket - can't stand another season with Cuellar at right back - the amount of times he gives the ball away is crazy.
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agree and hodgson is no idiot, i woulld be much more confident about our future if we had him as our manager
Yet one of his last acts and Fulham manager was to try and sign Sidwell, a player who most would use as an example of MON's inability. And one of his first as Liverpool boss was to go after Petrov, who again the manager gets flack for not dropping.
The grass isn't always greener......
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The difference between O'Neill and Hodgson is not very big, but Hodgson seems to have more technical expertise, ie is better to organize a team defensively and making them consistently difficult to break down.
I can't see how you can say that given our defensive record last year?
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The difference between O'Neill and Hodgson is not very big, but Hodgson seems to have more technical expertise, ie is better to organize a team defensively and making them consistently difficult to break down.
I can't see how you can say that given our defensive record last year?
Fulham's entire defence probably cost less than Curtis Davies or Stephen Warnock.
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Wouldn't doubt Hodgson's ability to spot a bargain in the transfer market, put the point was about organizing a defence, which even you must admit MON got right last year?
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Wouldn't doubt Hodgson's ability to spot a bargain in the transfer market, put the point was about organizing a defence, which even you must admit MON got right last year?
Yes, but given the resources available to him, you could argue that Hodgson did even better.
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Wouldn't doubt Hodgson's ability to spot a bargain in the transfer market, put the point was about organizing a defence, which even you must admit MON got right last year?
Yes, but given the resources available to him, you could argue that Hodgson did even better.
On balance, yes you could argue that. But with the simple issue of organising the players you have into a solid unit, Martin did very well so I don't agree Hodgson's ability to do this should be used as an example of why he's a better manager.
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The difference between O'Neill and Hodgson is not very big, but Hodgson seems to have more technical expertise, ie is better to organize a team defensively and making them consistently difficult to break down.
I can't see how you can say that given our defensive record last year?
My opinion is that our defensive record last year, which was a vast improvement on the previous two seasons at least, were largely due to better defenders and a more defensive mindset in the team -- not necessarily better organization.
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On balance, yes you could argue that. But with the simple issue of organising the players you have into a solid unit, Martin did very well so I don't agree Hodgson's ability to do this should be used as an example of why he's a better manager.
Perhaps last year Mon got lucky. Perhaps the more defensive mindset in the team helped, perhaps having spent the money he did on the defence he needed to' His success with the defensive organisation in previous years wasn't too good and I still remember several poor games defensively, Chelsea springs to mind.
Hodgson made Manager of the Year, others came close and Mon was not one of them. Hodgson is well travelled and respected throughout Europe, Mon@s one call to fame was he did average at Celtic and even Strachan did better on far less spend, I doubt most teams even know of his existence.
Mon was touted as favourite for the Liverpool Job Hodgson has it.
Listen to Hodgson talk football, discuss his knowledge of players world wide and compare that with listening to Mon on similar topics and you'll soon appreciate the better manager, as most sensible people do.
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My opinion is that our defensive record last year, which was a vast improvement on the previous two seasons at least, were largely due to better defenders and a more defensive mindset in the team -- not necessarily better organization.
I think the two go hand in hand - organisation and ability - to create a solid defense. I do agree though that team as a whole had a more defensive mindset.
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On balance, yes you could argue that. But with the simple issue of organising the players you have into a solid unit, Martin did very well so I don't agree Hodgson's ability to do this should be used as an example of why he's a better manager.
Perhaps last year Mon got lucky. Perhaps the more defensive mindset in the team helped, perhaps having spent the money he did on the defence he needed to' His success with the defensive organisation in previous years wasn't too good and I still remember several poor games defensively, Chelsea springs to mind.
Hodgson made Manager of the Year, others came close and Mon was not one of them. Hodgson is well travelled and respected throughout Europe, Mon@s one call to fame was he did average at Celtic and even Strachan did better on far less spend, I doubt most teams even know of his existence.
Mon was touted as favourite for the Liverpool Job Hodgson has it.
Listen to Hodgson talk football, discuss his knowledge of players world wide and compare that with listening to Mon on similar topics and you'll soon appreciate the better manager, as most sensible people do.
Am I missing a point here ?
Hodgson finished below O'Neill in the league in 3(?) seasons on the bounce.
A league cup final and a semi-final appearance for O'Neill last season
Woy got to one final.
I know who I would rather have in charge of my club.
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Am I missing a point here ?
Hodgson finished below O'Neill in the league in 3(?) seasons on the bounce.
A league cup final and a semi-final appearance for O'Neill last season
Woy got to one final.
I know who I would rather have in charge of my club.
With the resources available at both clubs, I know who I'd rather have as well.
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is that Fulham or Liverpool Dave ?
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Hodgson took a team from certain relegation to the UEFA cup final with little spend.
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is that Fulham or Liverpool Dave ?
Fulham, but also all three.
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Hodgson took a team from certain relegation to the UEFA cup final with little spend.
Sorry for harping on, but this is correct, and he started this by getting their defence organized -- ensuring that the number of goals conceded were radically reduced. I doubt that O'Neill could have done the same -- not to the same extent, at least.
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Hodgson took a team from certain relegation to the UEFA cup final with little spend.
O'Neill took over a team certain for relegation to a series of top 6 finishes and two trips to Wembley in the last 4 seasons.
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With the resources available at both clubs, I know who I'd rather have as well.
I think you have to say that with everything taken into account, sort of a pounds=points criteria, Hodgson was doing better at Fulham than MON is here. However, it's not uncommon for managers lower down the gravy train to be unable to emulate that success at bigger clubs. For instance, using the same criteria Mark Hughes did better at Blackburn than Man City, Pulis did better at WBA than Celtic and there are other examples.
Now, that's not to say Hodgson WILL do the same at Liverpool, but I think we need a bit of the 'wait and see' mentality before deciding.
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Hodgson took a team from certain relegation to the UEFA cup final with little spend.
O'Neill took over a team certain for relegation to a series of top 6 finishes and two trips to Wembley in the last 4 seasons.
Can we please stop using "two trips to Wembley" as though it's some major achievement? One of them should have been at Old Trafford.
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Hodgson took a team from certain relegation to the UEFA cup final with little spend.
O'Neill took over a team certain for relegation to a series of top 6 finishes and two trips to Wembley in the last 4 seasons.
Can we please stop using "two trips to Wembley" as though it's some major achievement? One of them should have been at Old Trafford.
I've been saying that for months. The fact that the FA want to fleece fans to pay for the stadium is the only reason semis are at Wembley. As you say, "A trip to Wembley and one to Old Trafford" doesn't sound quite as good.
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Hodgson took a team from certain relegation to the UEFA cup final with little spend.
O'Neill took over a team certain for relegation to a series of top 6 finishes and two trips to Wembley in the last 4 seasons.
Can we please stop using "two trips to Wembley" as though it's some major achievement? One of them should have been at Old Trafford.
Sorry, just stating a fact and you are absolutely right one of them should of been at Old Trafford.
UTV
The Doc
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Hodgson took a team from certain relegation to the UEFA cup final with little spend.
Sorry for harping on, but this is correct, and he started this by getting their defence organized -- ensuring that the number of goals conceded were radically reduced. I doubt that O'Neill could have done the same -- not to the same extent, at least.
The season before Martin took over we let in 55, which was the 6 worst record in the league. His first season we let in 41, which was the 6th best. And we didn't sign any defenders that season.
What year did Hodgson take the Fulham job? It would be intersting to compare the two differences.
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Hodgson took a team from certain relegation to the UEFA cup final with little spend.
O'Neill took over a team certain for relegation to a series of top 6 finishes and two trips to Wembley in the last 4 seasons.
Can we please stop using "two trips to Wembley" as though it's some major achievement? One of them should have been at Old Trafford.
well said Dave, excellent point well made..............................
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The season before Martin took over we let in 55n, which was the 6 worst record in the league. His first season we let in 41, which was the 6th best. And we didn't sign any defenders that season.
We did get Martin Laursen for almost half a season, though.
Played in 14 league games, in which we only conceded 11 goals.
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Hodgson took a team from certain relegation to the UEFA cup final with little spend.
O'Neill took over a team certain for relegation to a series of top 6 finishes and two trips to Wembley in the last 4 seasons.
Can we please stop using "two trips to Wembley" as though it's some major achievement? One of them should have been at Old Trafford.
well said Dave, excellent point well made..............................
wouldn't it have been played at the Emirates?
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Hodgson took a team from certain relegation to the UEFA cup final with little spend.
Sorry for harping on, but this is correct, and he started this by getting their defence organized -- ensuring that the number of goals conceded were radically reduced. I doubt that O'Neill could have done the same -- not to the same extent, at least.
The season before Martin took over we let in 55, which was the 6 worst record in the league. His first season we let in 41, which was the 6th best. And we didn't sign any defenders that season.
What year did Hodgson take the Fulham job? It would be intersting to compare the two differences.
That's a little bit simplistic though. O'Neill obviously had a positive effect, but in O'Leary's last season, Laursen played one game and Mellberg 27. In O'Neill's first season, Mellberg was an ever present and Laursen played a third of the games.
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Hodgson took a team from certain relegation to the UEFA cup final with little spend.
Sorry for harping on, but this is correct, and he started this by getting their defence organized -- ensuring that the number of goals conceded were radically reduced. I doubt that O'Neill could have done the same -- not to the same extent, at least.
The season before Martin took over we let in 55, which was the 6 worst record in the league. His first season we let in 41, which was the 6th best. And we didn't sign any defenders that season.
What year did Hodgson take the Fulham job? It would be intersting to compare the two differences.
Hodgson took the Fulham job in the middle of the 2007-08 season. That season Fulham conceded 60 (and finished 17th). The following season they conceded 34 (and finished 7th).
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I know which I'd rather have in charge as well and he doesn't wear the number 31!
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The season before Martin took over we let in 55n, which was the 6 worst record in the league. His first season we let in 41, which was the 6th best. And we didn't sign any defenders that season.
We did get Martin Laursen for almost half a season, though.
Played in 14 league games, in which we only conceded 11 goals.
OK, that means we conceded 30 in the other 26 games, which is 1.15 a game. The 55 in 05/06 equates to 1.45, so 0.3 a game improvement, which is 11 or 12 goals over a 38 game season.
So, was it 2008 when Hodgson took over Fulham? If we're going to say Martin couldn't do what he did then we need to compare the two records.
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Our defence improved last season at the expense of our attack, we looked woeful as an attacking force at times and put too much emphasis on not getting beaten rather than trying to win- negative .
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Hodgson took a team from certain relegation to the UEFA cup final with little spend.
O'Neill took over a team certain for relegation to a series of top 6 finishes and two trips to Wembley in the last 4 seasons.
Can we please stop using "two trips to Wembley" as though it's some major achievement? One of them should have been at Old Trafford.
I agree mainly but it is fact though. For a team with such a poor recent FA Cup record, getting to the semi final was an achievement and they happen to be at Wembley now. It was only our 4th semi final (I think) since we won it in 1957.
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Hodgson took the Fulham job in the middle of the 2007-08 season. That season Fulham conceded 60 (and finished 17th). The following season they conceded 34 (and finished 7th).
Fair enough, looks like he did better job on the defence then.
Not trying to get out of the argument, but was there an immediate impact defensively or did it wait until the following year? As in was the improvement he managed a matter of organization solely, or did he also need to bring his own players into the mix?
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Fulham did very well last season in getting to the Europa League final, but they also finished quite a way down the table and have'nt qualified for Europe this season. Would this have been acceptable for us?
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Our defence improved last season at the expense of our attack, we looked woeful as an attacking force at times and put too much emphasis on not getting beaten rather than trying to win- negative .
We only scored 2 less goals in 09/10 than we did in 08/09, which is a reasonable trade off for the defence being so tight. And when you consider we didn't have Laursen's ability as set pieces, maybe the extra defending didn't actually cost us anything?
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Our defence improved last season at the expense of our attack, we looked woeful as an attacking force at times and put too much emphasis on not getting beaten rather than trying to win- negative .
We only scored 2 less goals in 09/10 than we did in 08/09, which is a reasonable trade off for the defence being so tight. And when you consider we didn't have Laursen's ability as set pieces, maybe the extra defending didn't actually cost us anything?
At the end of the day though, it didn't do anything to improve our league position. We've been crying out for a new striker for ages, and this simply has not been addressed by O'Neill.
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Our defence improved last season at the expense of our attack, we looked woeful as an attacking force at times and put too much emphasis on not getting beaten rather than trying to win- negative .
We only scored 2 less goals in 09/10 than we did in 08/09, which is a reasonable trade off for the defence being so tight. And when you consider we didn't have Laursen's ability as set pieces, maybe the extra defending didn't actually cost us anything?
At the end of the day though, it didn't do anything to improve our league position. We've been crying out for a new striker for ages, and this simply has not been addressed by O'Neill.
Wouldn't argue with that.
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Hope Luke Young gets his bonding back with the players in Portugal and MON has a chat and re-considers his formation and keeps him at the club ........
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The season before Martin took over we let in 55n, which was the 6 worst record in the league. His first season we let in 41, which was the 6th best. And we didn't sign any defenders that season.
We did get Martin Laursen for almost half a season, though.
Played in 14 league games, in which we only conceded 11 goals.
OK, that means we conceded 30 in the other 26 games, which is 1.15 a game. The 55 in 05/06 equates to 1.45, so 0.3 a game improvement, which is 11 or 12 goals over a 38 game season.
So, was it 2008 when Hodgson took over Fulham? If we're going to say Martin couldn't do what he did then we need to compare the two records.
I've no idea what you're talking about with regard to Woy, John.
I'm just pointing out that whilst you're right, we didn't sign any defenders that season, we did get one of the best defenders we've had in ages back in the team, and the goals conceded improved as a result.
Although it is 30 in the other 24 games, not 26.
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Hodgson took the Fulham job in the middle of the 2007-08 season. That season Fulham conceded 60 (and finished 17th). The following season they conceded 34 (and finished 7th).
Fair enough, looks like he did better job on the defence then.
Not trying to get out of the argument, but was there an immediate impact defensively or did it wait until the following year? As in was the improvement he managed a matter of organization solely, or did he also need to bring his own players into the mix?
In the 2007-08 season, Fulham conceded 35 goals in 20 matches (avg 1.75) before Hodgson took the job, and 25 goals in the remaining 18 games (avg 1.39). So there seems to have been an immediate impact. However, it is also possible to argue that it takes time to teach a team defensive organization!
By the way, my opinion that Hodgson is more knowledgeable about defensive organization than O'Neill is to larger extent based on how the teams (ie Fulham and Villa) have played the last couple of seasons than on their defensive records. For example, Fulham seemed to concede a lot of goals at the end of last season because they were focused on the Europa League.
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Hodgson took a team from certain relegation to the UEFA cup final with little spend.
O'Neill took over a team certain for relegation to a series of top 6 finishes and two trips to Wembley in the last 4 seasons.
Can we please stop using "two trips to Wembley" as though it's some major achievement? One of them should have been at Old Trafford.
Perhaps we should simply state that we reached the FA Cup Semi-Final and League Cup Final.
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By the way, my opinion that Hodgson is more knowledgeable about defensive organization than O'Neill is to larger extent based on how the teams (ie Fulham and Villa) have played the last couple of seasons than on their defensive records. For example, Fulham seemed to concede a lot of goals at the end of last season because they were focused on the Europa League.
You might well be right, but I'd also say that Fulham's defensive record is a lot to do with how the whole team is set up and there's an imbalance towards this in detriment to their attack. I can't see him being able to get away with that an Anfield!
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You might well be right, but I'd also say that Fulham's defensive record is a lot to do with how the whole team is set up and there's an imbalance towards this in detriment to their attack. I can't see him being able to get away with that an Anfield!
I don't know about that. Rafa Benitez was often critisised for his overly cautious approach. Hodgson would merely be continuuing where he left off.
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Hodgson took a team from certain relegation to the UEFA cup final with little spend.
O'Neill took over a team certain for relegation to a series of top 6 finishes and two trips to Wembley in the last 4 seasons.
Can we please stop using "two trips to Wembley" as though it's some major achievement? One of them should have been at Old Trafford.
Sadly those two trips have allowed large cracks to be papered over.
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I agree mainly but it is fact though. For a team with such a poor recent FA Cup record, getting to the semi final was an achievement and they happen to be at Wembley now. It was only our 4th semi final (I think) since we won it in 1957.
An achievement yes, on the back of several summers of consistently high spend.
Compared to winning the League, League Cup and of course European Cup with little comparative spend its shite as any sort of achievement.
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Who compared it to winning a cup?
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By the way, my opinion that Hodgson is more knowledgeable about defensive organization than O'Neill is to larger extent based on how the teams (ie Fulham and Villa) have played the last couple of seasons than on their defensive records. For example, Fulham seemed to concede a lot of goals at the end of last season because they were focused on the Europa League.
You might well be right, but I'd also say that Fulham's defensive record is a lot to do with how the whole team is set up and there's an imbalance towards this in detriment to their attack. I can't see him being able to get away with that an Anfield!
Maybe. I just want to point out that all I said was that I don't think the difference between Hodgson and O'Neill is big, but that the former seems to have more technical expertise/tactical knowledge. If given (approximately) the same amount of resources I would expect Hodgson's teams (on average) to perform slightly better.
Also, rather than trying to "prove" that Hodgson's teams are better defensively, I really wanted to say that I think we probably overvalue Hodgson and underestimate MON. Roy was manager of the year last season and everybody's cup of tea, and maybe we are fearing that he (at least to some degree) will transform a Liverpool side that appeared to be on the slide.
MON, on the other hand, is old news. Sixth seems to be some sort of glass ceiling, making us suspect that he doesn't have the ability to take us further.
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Sorry but is this the "Luke Young to Liverpool" thread?
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Maybe it should be renamed "Luke Young going to Fulham" anyway.
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Maybe it should be renamed "Luke Young going to Fulham" anyway.
Is that the latest ?
It is looking like he's offski.
Do hope MON has a shopping basket ready to checkout with - and I hope it's not an Aldi one.
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Nah.
Martin shops at the farmers market. Overpriced and locally grown.
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Nah.
Martin shops at the farmers market. Overpriced and locally grown.
Nice.
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Liverpool have re-signed Fabio Aurelio, that may end their interest in Luke. He was a free agent and I suspect he will be paid a lot less than they were gonna pay Luke