Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: dave.woodhall on June 02, 2010, 06:04:51 PM
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Been asked to give this a plug by some we've helped out before...
"Myself and a colleague are carrying out an anonymous survey on fans' views towards gay players. This is in response to the Premier League dropping a campaign on this issue and Max Clifford claiming that 'football is steeped in homophobia'. We want to assess how fans feel about this. Our pilot data was published in The Observer on Sunday and discussed again on The Nolan show on Radio 5Live on Sunday evening. The address is: www.topfan.co.uk and the site is being managed by Staffordshire University (where I am employed).
Thanks."
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Done. Straightforward questions-only took a couple of minutes.
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Duly completed.
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done
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Completed. Interesting survey, will the next results be published in The Observer?
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Completed.
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Done, it really is very quick and easy. I'm really glad they are doing the survey as well.
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Done.
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Done also. An interesting survey.
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Done. although i did used to sing upson takes it up the ar**. sorry. now i feel bad.
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Done.
It's a great debate as well, for my part I reckon society has moved on since Justin Fashanu and after a short period of pisstaking the first openly gay footballers would be accepted. Or at least I hope they would, it would be a big step though.
The first openly gay professional rugby player came out recently, he seems to be doing okay although I do realise that football fans are generally worse than rugby fans of course.
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I put something along the lines of: most football fans would be accepting of it, although there will be a small minority who won't initially. It probably needs a 'big name' to come out to have any real impact. I can understand why said 'big name' wouldn't want to though.
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Completed. Interesting survey, will the next results be published in The Observer?
I would think the FT would be more appropiate.
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Done it.
Sadly, it would take a very brave footballer to come out. More likely it will be someone near the end of the career who has boozed / gambled / just wasted all his money and is persuaded to sell his story.... a bit like Justin Fashanu.
Like Dave Cooper, I think fans would get used to it fairly quickly. Fans have evolved since the days of throwing bananas at black players, to such an extent that England fans now take a deserved pride in defending their multi-racial team / support against the attacks of countries where such attitudes are still acceptable. I hope British fans in general would, likewise, take pride in being mature enough not to abuse gay players.
God help the first Iranian / Nigerian / Jamaican to come out though.
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Also filled it out- interesting questions.
Of course everybody's sexuality should be irrelevant to anyone outside of his/her private life. Sad if football is really lagging so far behind in this.
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Wondered why there was no question about the media reaction?
Remember Greavsie making homophobic comments about Shirtlif (sp?) during Saint and Greavsie years back?
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Also filled it out- interesting questions.
Of course everybody's sexuality should be irrelevant to anyone outside of his/her private life. Sad if football is really lagging so far behind in this.
Unfortunately, for a minority of people in football, it probably is.
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It's a private issue and should remain that way.
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A persons sexuality has absolutely nothing to do with anybody else.
What does it matter to anybody else.
This is the 21st Century.
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A persons sexuality has absolutely nothing to do with anybody else.
What does it matter to anybody else.
This is the 21st Century.
Exactly. Spot on.
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It's a private issue and should remain that way.
What if they don't want it to be a private issue? What if they wanted to be able to eat in a restaurant, go to the pub or go on holiday with their partner like any other couple?
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A persons sexuality has absolutely nothing to do with anybody else.
What does it matter to anybody else.
This is the 21st Century.
Is the correct answer, a person's sexuality is their choice.
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I meant for the disclosure from them personally.
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A persons sexuality has absolutely nothing to do with anybody else.
What does it matter to anybody else.
This is the 21st Century.
Is the correct answer, a person's sexuality is their choice.
Agree totally. But, playing devil's advocate, what if they felt that making it public knowledge would go someway towards tackling the problem of homophobia in football?
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Done.
Cristiano Ronaldo should not be scared of what he is.
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There's the proof right there, Mazrim: Ronaldo is a cheating, preening, arrogant greedy puffed-up little shit REGARDLESS OF HIS SEXUALITY!!!
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A persons sexuality has absolutely nothing to do with anybody else.
What does it matter to anybody else.
This is the 21st Century.
Is the correct answer, a person's sexuality is their choice.
Agree totally. But, playing devil's advocate, what if they felt that making it public knowledge would go someway towards tackling the problem of homophobia in football?
I would be delighted if a gay footballer were to do that. I cannot understand peoples homophobia. I really can't.
A players sexuality doesn't affect the way he plays football and the way a player plays is the most important thing.
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I may well regret posting this, dependent upon subsequent posts. It was recently Idaho Day -
http://www.dayagainsthomophobia.org/spip.php?page=sommaire&id_rubrique=41
Sadly, for some people it's the kind of thing that can bring out 'shirt lifter' type comments and accusations of political correctness.
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Completed with pleasure. too much bloody prejudice in society never mind footie.
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Done.
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Done.
I fear that football crowds will be some of the last people in society to abandon their homophobia, but even here I think attitudes are changing, slowly.
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Done.
I fear that football crowds will be some of the last people in society to abandon their homophobia, but even here I think attitudes are changing, slowly.
I agree about the football crowds and hope you're right in that attitudes are changing. If attitudes worsened, it would be a very sad day indeed.
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Dunne
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The fact that we've had three pages of (mostly) intelligent debate shows how attitudes are changing.
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Myself and a colleague...
Dave: I'll do the survey because I think it's a subject worth discussing, but could you do me a favour and forward the following to whoever sent it you: LINK (http://www.humbleapostrophe.com/me-myself.html).
It's a nice little website I found that offers a simple explanation as to how and when to use reflexive pronouns (i.e. myself and yourself) and that they're not simply interchangeable with I / me and you for occasions when you want to sound intelligent. And really don't. Thanks!
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The fact that we've had three pages of (mostly) intelligent debate shows how attitudes are changing.
Just out of interest, which parts of the discussion wouldn't you class as intelligent debate?
Edit: Or did I read it wrong and you meant that most of the posts are intelligent debate and some are simple posts for example, people just saying they'd completed it? Not necessarily that any of the posts were not intelligent?
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The members of this site have always been excellent at stomping on prejudice, to their great credit, with perhaps the one exception of that shown towards other football fans.
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The members of this site have always been excellent at stomping on prejudice, to their great credit, with perhaps the one exception of that shown towards other football fans.
There's a very interesting debate to be had on that subject, although this isn't the thread for it.
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I'm not sure that any perceived reaction from the crowd is reason enough for footballers not to come out.
The decision probably has far more to do with the reaction amongst team mates and management, particularly the old school types.
Look at the dog's abuse Beckham has received over the years, about his wife, his sexuality and everything else. Yet it hasn't affected his contribution on the field.
Footballer's like positive acclaim, but truth be told, I don't think they give a shite about what supporters sing. If it's positive then great, if negative it's generally just a shrug of the shoulders and a "I'm above all this" type pout.
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Done. Will be interested to hear the results - will you ensure they're posted up on here, Dave?
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Done.
I fear that football crowds will be some of the last people in society to abandon their homophobia, but even here I think attitudes are changing, slowly.
I agree about the football crowds and hope you're right in that attitudes are changing. If attitudes worsened, it would be a very sad day indeed.
Agreed.
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I used to play for Silhill and there was a gay gentleman in the team. Everybody knew, nobody really cared or said owt aside from some gentle fun (bothways).
Then again there weren't thousands of fans coming to see us every week. Shouting things.
To me this is just another stage in cultural evolution. In time it will be no more remarked upon than women voting. A sportsmans sexual preference will be no more important than what car he drives.
I think we're nearly there on this issue and the idiots will just have to catch up.
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Done
Interesting survey and perhaps a sign that attitudes may be changing given that surveys like this are taking place among genuine football fans. Would be interesting to see results broken down to football clubs - e.g would Millwall or SHA views differ significantly to more sophisticated clubs like us!
I certainly think things have moved on since Robbie Fowler's taunting of Graeme le Saux (about 10 years ago?)
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Done
Interesting survey and perhaps a sign that attitudes may be changing given that surveys like this are taking place among genuine football fans. Would be interesting to see results broken down to football clubs - e.g would Millwall or SHA views differ significantly to more sophisticated clubs like us!
I certainly think things have moved on since Robbie Fowler's taunting of Graeme le Saux (about 10 years ago?)
Fowler = prime dickhead and all-round piece of shit.
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Also filled it out
Filled IN, James! Your Engli...oh hang on..
Form filled in here too, good questions, would hope the feedback can be linked to from here when complete.
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The only thing that annoys me about these kind of surveys is the implication that the majority of football fans are racist/homophobic/sexist.Why are football fans always targeted, i bet their is more of a problem with this kind of attitude in Rugby for example.
This survey is well balanced, and gives the opportunity for you to explain your points, but for me football is neither no place for homosexuals, or full of homophobes, and yet according to this survey, it is one or the other.
Apart from Upson, i can't remember the last time i heard a taunt at an opposition player about his sexuality.
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The only thing that annoys me about these kind of surveys is the implication that the majority of football fans are racist/homophobic/sexist.Why are football fans always targeted, i bet their is more of a problem with this kind of attitude in Rugby for example.
I don't think there is any implication that the majority of football fans are homophobic, but I can bet you that there are more homophobic chants and less tolerance of gay people in a football crowd than there is in any other crowd watching sport in this country.
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The only thing that annoys me about these kind of surveys is the implication that the majority of football fans are racist/homophobic/sexist.Why are football fans always targeted, i bet their is more of a problem with this kind of attitude in Rugby for example.
This survey is well balanced, and gives the opportunity for you to explain your points, but for me football is neither no place for homosexuals, or full of homophobes, and yet according to this survey, it is one or the other.
Apart from Upson, i can't remember the last time i heard a taunt at an opposition player about his sexuality.
Or, looked at another way, you haven't heard an opposition player taunted about his sexuality until, errm, the last time an opposition player rumoured to be gay played against us.
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I got as far as the first question.
Do you think gay players should come out? Yes / No
There is no blanket answer to that - surely it is up to the players themselves to make decisions according to whichever way they want to live their lives?
Shouldn't the question be "Do you think gay players should be able to come out, if they so wish?".
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The only thing that annoys me about these kind of surveys is the implication that the majority of football fans are racist/homophobic/sexist.Why are football fans always targeted, i bet their is more of a problem with this kind of attitude in Rugby for example.
This survey is well balanced, and gives the opportunity for you to explain your points, but for me football is neither no place for homosexuals, or full of homophobes, and yet according to this survey, it is one or the other.
Apart from Upson, i can't remember the last time i heard a taunt at an opposition player about his sexuality.
Or, looked at another way, you haven't heard an opposition player taunted about his sexuality until, errm, the last time an opposition player rumoured to be gay played against us.
And to emphasise that, if any single one of the players who had played against us since then had rumours surrounding his sexuality, do you think Upson is the last one that you would remember? Or do you think that every one of those potential players would be subjected to the same moronic chants?
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I got as far as the first question.
Do you think gay players should come out? Yes / No
There is no blanket answer to that - surely it is up to the players themselves to make decisions according to whichever way they want to live their lives?
Shouldn't the question be "Do you think gay players should be able to come out, if they so wish?".
I think it has been worded badly.
I particularly disliked the amount of questions revolving around the lowlife that is Max Clifford.
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I just had this discussion with my female colleagues at work and it sparked a 30 minute debate. We finally came to the conclusion that they dont need a gay player to stand up and be shot down. They need lots of high profile players, gay and straight, to get behind the campaign. Plus, if every team had a gay player (and statistically they probably do) they couldnt all be abused.
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I just had this discussion with my female colleagues at work and it sparked a 30 minute debate. We finally came to the conclusion that they dont need a gay player to stand up and be shot down. They need lots of high profile players, gay and straight, to get behind the campaign. Plus, if every team had a gay player (and statistically they probably do) they couldnt all be abused.
Maybe Platini will introduce this in nest seasons Europa League?
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First of all may I add that I do believe that it should be easier for homosexuals to be openly gay at any times during their lives. it is incredible that peopleare still persecuted, however that may take its form, in todays supposedly 'free' world.
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I heard some interesting comments on this when Ricky Martin came out. It was a dutch lesbian who was saying that when you 'come out' , it's not really a one-off event, you find that you have 'come out' to everytime you meet someone new and that in itself is a barrier for some people.
It was something I'd never really considered before.
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The thing with the survey, as you find with most surveys, is that only the intellectual people tend to fill them in.
The people who shout abuse stand out more than the tolerant people, and these are the idiots who probably don't even know how to use a computer to express their views in surveys, thus giving the surveys a false result.
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A persons sexuality has absolutely nothing to do with anybody else.
What does it matter to anybody else.
This is the 21st Century.
I agree with you entirely.
I think the reason that football is backward in this way is that (Fashanu) excepted none of the players have come out as gay. Let's be realistic here in a league of 92 clubs you are going to have some gay players.
In other parts of public life people have come out as gay without losing their careers (Martina Navratilova was the first I rember, also of course Elton John).
Unfortunately what some folks fail to realise is that gay people are the same as hetrosexuals apart from one thing: their sexual preference.
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The thing with the survey, as you find with most surveys, is that only the intellectual people tend to fill them in.
Just to prove you wrong, I filled one in.
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Did they let you use crayons?
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Just the really chubby ones which are useless for colouring in and writing with but I can't be trusted not to eat the slimmer ones.