Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: lovejoy on May 26, 2010, 09:53:25 PM
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: lovejoy on May 26, 2010, 09:53:25 PM
Off to Bursaspor for two years rather than Burnley or Sheff Utd apparently. They just pipped Fenerbache to win the Turkish league.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: TheSandman on May 26, 2010, 09:58:12 PM
Best of luck Marlinho you were never Villa quality but you always tried your hardest.
It's good that he has decided to try his luck in a strange place.
There seems to be a lot of limited players moving there. One or two SPL players have gone and Boyd is looking likely to move to Kaiserspor. Makes Vasseline a trailblazer!
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 26, 2010, 10:03:28 PM
Good luck Marlon. Chose the option to compete in the Champions League rather than take the money he could've made in America or an Arab country.
Hope he does well.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: TheSandman on May 26, 2010, 10:06:22 PM
Mirror Linky (http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Transfer-news-Aston-Villa-star-Marlon-Harewood-set-for-Bursaspor-move-article431187.html)
Quote
Marlon Harewood has been offered a lucrative two-year deal by the new Turkish champions Bursaspor.
The 30-year-old is out of contract at Villa Park after joining in July 2007 from West Ham in a £4million deal and is available on a Bosman free.
Villa have not offered the forward a new contract as they want his £27,500-a-week salary off their wage bill.
But he is attracting plenty of interest from Championship sides and has received firm offers from Bursaspor and DC United.
Bursaspor have just beaten Fenerbahce to the Turkish title and will be playing in the Champions League next season. MLS side DC United, meanwhile, are in a position to offer Harewood a decent salary.
We paid him WHAT per week?
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: eamonn on May 26, 2010, 10:10:01 PM
Wonder if he'll get the same type of welcoming ceremony/burning chicken ritual that poor Darius ''enjoyed''.
Actually, the adventures of Marlon and Vass in Turkey is really something that HBO should be picking up.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Legion on May 26, 2010, 10:12:24 PM
£27,500 a WEEK? Good luck, Marlon F. Harewood. I genuinely wish you well.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Mark H on May 26, 2010, 10:26:52 PM
I thought we where paying him more than that to be honest - good luck Marlon
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: placeforparks on May 26, 2010, 11:14:57 PM
GOOD RIDDANCE.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: The Man With A Stick on May 26, 2010, 11:22:03 PM
Good luck to him.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on May 27, 2010, 12:22:08 AM
Good luck to him, he's going to need it.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Ross on May 27, 2010, 12:29:14 AM
He truly was the T-Rex of our hearts
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: KevinGage on May 27, 2010, 12:32:46 AM
One of the few Champions League- quality players we had and we let him go? Talk about lack of ambition (winky effort).
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: PeterWithe on May 27, 2010, 01:23:49 AM
He was a complete waste of money and the wages he was on are ridiculous.
Paying players of that kind of talent, those kind of wages will lead to ruin.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Toronto Villa on May 27, 2010, 04:23:09 AM
No need to be bitter. Never said a bad word about the club. Gave his all when he played. Just didn't have the quality or consistency required at a club of our level. Would have been perfectly adequate for a club in the lower half of the PL. I hope he does well at his new team.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: PaulTheVillan on May 27, 2010, 07:59:35 AM
Fair play to the bloke.
Wonder if he'll have anything to say on his way out?
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: VillaZogmariner on May 27, 2010, 08:23:07 AM
Quote from: "placeforparks"
GOOD RIDDANCE.
That's a bit harsh.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Phil from the upper holte on May 27, 2010, 08:44:36 AM
Quote from: "Legion"
£27,500 a WEEK? Good luck, Marlon F. Harewood. I genuinely wish you well.
We've paid him £5,184000 in wages plus £4m signing =£9,184000 absolutely shocking and we got 6 goals out of him thats cracking business.
Well done Martin
EDIT. I do wish the guy well, good luck and I think he'll score over there
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Concrete John on May 27, 2010, 09:06:05 AM
Quote from: "PeterWithe"
He was a complete waste of money and the wages he was on are ridiculous.
Paying players of that kind of talent, those kind of wages will lead to ruin.
I won't try and argue that he was value for money, but £27,500 a week is only an average wage for a PL player these days.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: JUAN PABLO on May 27, 2010, 09:34:16 AM
DP
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: JUAN PABLO on May 27, 2010, 09:34:16 AM
what a complete waste of money.. Should never have bought him, still cant believe we did..
no its not his fault , just the managers....
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Chris Smith on May 27, 2010, 09:38:22 AM
Quote from: "JUAN PABLO"
what a complete waste of money.. Should never have bought him, still cant believe we did..
no its not his fault , just the managers....
If only we had one of those other managers who have a 100% success rate with every signing they make.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: JUAN PABLO on May 27, 2010, 09:42:47 AM
Quote from: "Chris Smith"
Quote from: "JUAN PABLO"
what a complete waste of money.. Should never have bought him, still cant believe we did..
no its not his fault , just the managers....
If only we had one of those other managers who have a 100% success rate with every signing they make.
sorry Chris, but you didnt not need to be no expert to know that he was going to be a bad signing. Was you over the moon when we signed him?, I was ill for 2 mths...
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Concrete John on May 27, 2010, 09:49:08 AM
I've said this before and I'll say it again - he was a decent short term signing. The problem is that we couldn't shift once his usefulness ran out, which was a year to 18 months after we signed him. If we had, we'd be looking at a lot less wages and probably the majority of his transfer value back. He would then be viewed in the same category as Zat Knight, which for me is 'useful stepping stone'.
All-in-all not a success and will always be used to bash MON over the head with.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: JUAN PABLO on May 27, 2010, 09:53:42 AM
Quote from: "John M"
I've said this before and I'll say it again - he was a decent short term signing. The problem is that we couldn't shift once his usefulness ran out, which was a year to 18 months after we signed him. If we had, we'd be looking at a lot less wages and probably the majority of his transfer value back. He would then be viewed in the same category as Zat Knight, which for me is 'useful stepping stone'.
All-in-all not a success and will always be used to bash MON over the head with.
and I wonder why we couldnt shift.... he was useless and on obscene wages
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Chris Smith on May 27, 2010, 09:59:20 AM
Quote from: "JUAN PABLO"
Quote from: "Chris Smith"
Quote from: "JUAN PABLO"
what a complete waste of money.. Should never have bought him, still cant believe we did..
no its not his fault , just the managers....
If only we had one of those other managers who have a 100% success rate with every signing they make.
sorry Chris, but you didnt not need to be no expert to know that he was going to be a bad signing. Was you over the moon when we signed him?, I was ill for 2 mths...
He was signed as back up to Carew. Did an OK job as a sub but as we got better there was no place for him. Just one of those things, all managers have them.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Concrete John on May 27, 2010, 10:25:43 AM
Quote from: "JUAN PABLO"
Quote from: "John M"
I've said this before and I'll say it again - he was a decent short term signing. The problem is that we couldn't shift once his usefulness ran out, which was a year to 18 months after we signed him. If we had, we'd be looking at a lot less wages and probably the majority of his transfer value back. He would then be viewed in the same category as Zat Knight, which for me is 'useful stepping stone'.
All-in-all not a success and will always be used to bash MON over the head with.
and I wonder why we couldnt shift.... he was useless and on obscene wages
To be honest, at the end of his first season with us I would have thought his super-sub performances would have meant his star was quite high and make him an attractive signing for a promoted/bottom half club. The longer he stayed the more that waned. Maybe there were offers, but he wanted to stay and fight for his place?
And I wouldn't call his wages obscene in comparative terms.
Again, not trying to make him out to be a good signing, just voicing my view that the issue wasn't signing him - it was not shifting him out sooner!
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Chris Harte on May 27, 2010, 10:29:36 AM
Quote from: "eamonn"
Wonder if he'll get the same type of welcoming ceremony/burning chicken ritual that poor Darius ''enjoyed''.
Actually, the adventures of Marlon and Vass in Turkey is really something that HBO should be picking up.
I remember when Dalian Atkinson went to Turkey. Apparently, on the way to a game they stopped the team bus on the motorway, all got off, then slaughtered a goat on the hard shoulder. They then dabbed some of the goat's blood onto Atkinson's forehead for luck.
The story goes that Atkinson promtly fainted!
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Dave Cooper please on May 27, 2010, 10:47:46 AM
Quote from: "John M"
I won't try and argue that he was value for money, but £27,500 a week is only an average wage for a PL player these days.
Depressing isn't it?
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: placeforparks on May 27, 2010, 11:41:20 AM
Quote from: "VillaSubmariner"
Quote from: "placeforparks"
GOOD RIDDANCE.
That's a bit harsh.
some people might be happy to throw about their money and praise to sustain the harewoods and sidwells through some blind sense of loyalty, but i'm not one of them.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Concrete John on May 27, 2010, 11:49:51 AM
Quote from: "placeforparks"
Quote from: "VillaSubmariner"
Quote from: "placeforparks"
GOOD RIDDANCE.
That's a bit harsh.
some people might be happy to throw about their money and praise to sustain the harewoods and sidwells through some blind sense of loyalty, but i'm not one of them.
There's a huge differnece between that and saying 'good riddance' to a player that has always tried hard when selected and not done anything to upset/piss off the fans or club.
Good bloke, but a poor footballer. I wish him the best where as I wouldn't with someone like Barry, who was a good player and fantastic value, but turned out to be an utter git.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Herman on May 27, 2010, 11:51:00 AM
Pity he didnt go 18 months ago, rather than be happy to sit on his arse raking in that kind of money. No wonder he didnt complain.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: VillaZogmariner on May 27, 2010, 12:07:31 PM
Quote from: "Chris Harte"
Quote from: "eamonn"
Wonder if he'll get the same type of welcoming ceremony/burning chicken ritual that poor Darius ''enjoyed''.
Actually, the adventures of Marlon and Vass in Turkey is really something that HBO should be picking up.
I remember when Dalian Atkinson went to Turkey. Apparently, on the way to a game they stopped the team bus on the motorway, all got off, then slaughtered a goat on the hard shoulder. They then dabbed some of the goat's blood onto Atkinson's forehead for luck.
The story goes that Atkinson promtly fainted!
I thought that was Deano?
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Greg N'Ash on May 27, 2010, 12:13:30 PM
Can't be annoyed at MFH really. Seemed a nice bloke and if some idiot offered you 27k a week to do a job you're not qualified to do, you'd take the money wouldn't you? Good luck to him and well done to his Agent. You sir, are a genius.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: London Villan on May 27, 2010, 12:30:51 PM
Ok so...
Harewood £27k Shorey £20k Young £30k
That's our first quality signing wages paid for... get them in!
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Chris Jameson on May 27, 2010, 12:39:16 PM
He's obviously done his research and spotted a gap in the market but i'm not sure they'll go for pasties, pies and sausage rolls over there.
I assume he's going it alone and Greggs aren't opening a branch in Turkey. Brave move Marlon, he'll back doing the early shift in Doncaster within 6 months I reckon.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Chris Harte on May 27, 2010, 01:00:26 PM
Quote from: "VillaSubmariner"
I thought that was Deano?
I'm fair certain it was Dalian, but I could be wrong.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Merv on May 27, 2010, 02:03:30 PM
Quote from: "gregnash"
Can't be annoyed at MFH really.
Me neither, Greg. I actually thought he was fairly productive for us when he was given time on the pitch. The team moved on and left him behind but at least he contributed when he was called upon.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: eamonn on May 27, 2010, 02:41:30 PM
Quote from: "John M"
I've said this before and I'll say it again - he was a decent short term signing. The problem is that we couldn't shift once his usefulness ran out, which was a year to 18 months after we signed him. If we had, we'd be looking at a lot less wages and probably the majority of his transfer value back. He would then be viewed in the same category as Zat Knight, which for me is 'useful stepping stone'.
All-in-all not a success and will always be used to bash MON over the head with.
I'd argue and did argue at the time, (along with many others), that he wasn't even a decent short term signing. I remember a security guard in HMV in Dublin saw me wearing a Villa shirt the day our interest in the Hare first became known and said he too was a Villa fan. He then, rather embarassedly, told me to look at the story he was reading on his Blackberry. We were both in disbelief.
We should have been signing better back-up strikers than Harewood three years ago. He never even made a Premiership start - no wonder Carew was out boning any nice looking young woman he could find rather than worrying about his place in the team.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Concrete John on May 27, 2010, 02:56:41 PM
Quote from: "eamonn"
Quote from: "John M"
I've said this before and I'll say it again - he was a decent short term signing. The problem is that we couldn't shift once his usefulness ran out, which was a year to 18 months after we signed him. If we had, we'd be looking at a lot less wages and probably the majority of his transfer value back. He would then be viewed in the same category as Zat Knight, which for me is 'useful stepping stone'.
All-in-all not a success and will always be used to bash MON over the head with.
I'd argue and did argue at the time, (along with many others), that he wasn't even a decent short term signing. I remember a security guard in HMV in Dublin saw me wearing a Villa shirt the day our interest in the Hare first became known and said he too was a Villa fan. He then, rather embarassedly, told me to look at the story he was reading on his Blackberry. We were both in disbelief.
We should have been signing better back-up strikers than Harewood three years ago. He never even made a Premiership start - no wonder Carew was out boning any nice looking young woman he could find rather than worrying about his place in the team.
I didn't want him either, but I can put that aside and judge him on his contribution, which as an inpact player off the bench was decent enough in 07/08. It's easy to say we should have been looking for better, but as a team that had just finished 11th who esle could we have got to sit on our bench?
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: eamonn on May 27, 2010, 03:06:18 PM
Kevin Phillips or Juan Pablo Angel! Seriously, we'd have been better off hanging on to either of those. Angel made a decent contribution in O'Neill's first season.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Villa'Zawg on May 27, 2010, 03:11:28 PM
He came to us after scoring 42 goals in the previous 3 seasons for West Ham. He was bought as a backup to Gabby and Carew and managed to score 5 goals in only approx 500 mins on the pitch during the season when he was used, which isn't bad at all.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Concrete John on May 27, 2010, 03:12:33 PM
Quote from: "eamonn"
Kevin Phillips or Juan Pablo Angel! Seriously, we'd have been better off hanging on to either of those. Angel made a decent contribution in O'Neill's first season.
I think both players had had their time at Villa and it was right to move them on. I do agree both are better strikers than Marlon, though!
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Concrete John on May 27, 2010, 03:33:22 PM
Quote from: "Villadawg"
He came to us after scoring 42 goals in the previous 3 seasons for West Ham. He was bought as a backup to Gabby and Carew and managed to score 5 goals in only approx 500 mins on the pitch during the season when he was used, which isn't bad at all.
That'll just change the argument from 'Why did he buy him' to 'He should have given him more of a chance'
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Villa'Zawg on May 27, 2010, 03:37:15 PM
Quote from: "John M"
Quote from: "Villadawg"
He came to us after scoring 42 goals in the previous 3 seasons for West Ham. He was bought as a backup to Gabby and Carew and managed to score 5 goals in only approx 500 mins on the pitch during the season when he was used, which isn't bad at all.
That'll just change the argument from 'Why did he buy him' to 'He should have given him more of a chance'
I was hoping to confuse them.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: MoetVillan on May 27, 2010, 03:41:01 PM
I didnt like him, blazing over the bar at point blank range during the FA Cup when Wetspam could have done Liverpool was unforgiveable. That said, God likes a trier,and I have never before or since see someone celebrate every goal he scores in warm ups with such conviction. Good luck Marlon (if that is your real name, and not Goomba)
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Concrete John on May 27, 2010, 03:43:51 PM
Quote from: "Villadawg"
Quote from: "John M"
Quote from: "Villadawg"
He came to us after scoring 42 goals in the previous 3 seasons for West Ham. He was bought as a backup to Gabby and Carew and managed to score 5 goals in only approx 500 mins on the pitch during the season when he was used, which isn't bad at all.
That'll just change the argument from 'Why did he buy him' to 'He should have given him more of a chance'
I was hoping to confuse them.
In that case you should've gone with an argument about us playing it to feet more whenever Marlon was in the side!
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Dave Cooper please on May 27, 2010, 06:23:54 PM
He was utterly average and the odd cameo apart, a total waste of wages. Just as some of us said he would be when he was signed.
Pisspoor and pointless.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on May 27, 2010, 06:41:08 PM
Strange time Harewood had with us. As I recall his performance for us was something like this....Slow start grinding to a standstill, got another chance having a couple of stinkers and you thought he was finished,then he suddenly seemed to get a new lease of life and became mr popular, i was thinking he was going to become a cult hero, then it just seemed to fade away again. As others have said, he never bad mouthed us and I say good luck to him.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: hilts_coolerking on May 27, 2010, 06:44:08 PM
Poor judgment from Martin.
Most people knew Marlon was shite and so he proved to be.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 27, 2010, 07:01:39 PM
Good luck to him, wasn't good enough for us but always tried and never complained.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Risso on May 27, 2010, 07:05:12 PM
He started one league game. One of the worst signings ever.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: KevinGage on May 27, 2010, 07:31:05 PM
You can make a case for not being able to sign better than the likes of Knight, Harewood et al back in 2007 after our previous campaign.
Personally I don't buy it, as we were able to attract far better players than that during far darker times for the club.
They were always a level or two below the standard of player a club this size could realistically attract, particularly with the money we had available. As indeed indicated by the competition we fought off to sign them, B-lose/ Wigan et.c.
A far more likely reason for their signing would be the idea that such journeymen would be grateful to play for a club like Aston Villa (and perhaps more importantly MON) . There is a pretty consistent theme to most of MON's purchases, either promising young players or old, low maintenance pros who hopefully won't rock the boat. It's probably why we won't see any genuinely top drawer players pitch up at VP. One ego at the club is enough.
Those players who did the unexpected, perhaps knew their worth and voiced their opinions were given short shrift and effectively ostracised.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Chris Smith on May 27, 2010, 07:34:56 PM
Quote from: "KevinGage"
You can make a case for not being able to sign better than the likes of Knight, Harewood et al back in 2007 after our previous campaign.
Personally I don't buy it, as we were able to attract far better players than that during far darker times for the club.
They were always a level or two below the standard of player a club this size could realistically attract, particularly with the money we had available. As indeed indicated by the competition we fought off to sign them, B-lose/ Wigan et.c.
A far more likely reason for their signing would be the idea that such journeymen would be grateful to play for a club like Aston Villa (and perhaps more importantly MON) . There is a pretty consistent theme to most of MON's purchases, either promising young players or old, low maintenance pros who hopefully won't rock the boat. It's probably why we won't see any genuinely top drawer players pitch up at VP. One ego at the club is enough.
Those players who did the unexpected, perhaps knew their worth and voiced their opinions were given short shrift and effectively ostracised.
You're over thinking it again, he was bought as a backup striker, another big man to cover Carew. He accepted his role without complaint.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: eamonn on May 27, 2010, 07:38:49 PM
Spot on Gagey. We signed Carew and Young in Jan 07. To regress to signing the likes of Harewood and Knight the following summer was very disappointing. If they were never intended to be first team regulars (though ultimately Knight got a fair old whack in the first team) I'd have rathered we blooded our own young players instead.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Chris Smith on May 27, 2010, 07:39:53 PM
Quote from: "eamonn"
Spot on Gagey. We signed Carew and Young in Jan 07. To regress to signing the likes of Harewood and Knight the following summer was very disappointing. If they were never intended to be first team regulars (though ultimately Knight got a fair old whack in the first team) I'd have rathered we blooded our own young players instead.
Which young striker did you want us to blood in 2007?
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: eamonn on May 27, 2010, 07:42:48 PM
But surely when building a squad you buy players as much for competition as for cover, Chris? Harewood should have been told that he'd be given a chance and if he took it he'd stay in the team. Maybe MON did tell him this. Sub appearances but no starts would suggest that O'Neill realised pretty quickly he'd made a mistake.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Chris Smith on May 27, 2010, 07:48:09 PM
Quote from: "eamonn"
But surely when building a squad you buy players as much for competition as for cover, Chris? Harewood should have been told that he'd be given a chance and if he took it he'd stay in the team. Maybe MON did tell him this. Sub appearances but no starts would suggest that O'Neill realised pretty quickly he'd made a mistake.
I always thought he was signed to be backup or a player to bring on to make a late impact and it worked to a certain extent for a while. He just wasn't able to progress beyond that and we outgrew him. Not the greatest signing ever but as I said earlier all clubs have them from time to time and I'm not sure why we're making such a big deal. It's not like he was a Francis Jeffers scale of waste.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: eamonn on May 27, 2010, 07:58:17 PM
Quote from: "Chris Smith"
Quote from: "eamonn"
Spot on Gagey. We signed Carew and Young in Jan 07. To regress to signing the likes of Harewood and Knight the following summer was very disappointing. If they were never intended to be first team regulars (though ultimately Knight got a fair old whack in the first team) I'd have rathered we blooded our own young players instead.
Which young striker did you want us to blood in 2007?
I wanted Luke Moore to get more games. Fair enough he's not exactly proved me wrong since we let him go but the kid had talent as he had shown the previous season. Harewood's impact amounted to a fantastic equaliser at Anfield and a goal at Reading which you could argue proved to be the winner (it put us 2-0 up before Nicky feckin' Shorey scored a free-kick right at the death for them which Scott handsfree Carson should have saved). On the debit side, he gave away a penalty at Spurs in the infamous 4-4 game. I think there was no way back for him after that. His other goals were ones that didn't matter as we were already hamering the opposition (Blackbun, Bolton, Derby). As contributions go, he barely broke even. Do you think he was a good signing?
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: eamonn on May 27, 2010, 07:59:10 PM
Just seen your last post. Fair enough.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: john e on May 27, 2010, 08:28:13 PM
he wasnt a good signing,
and for all the talk of him being signed as a back up striker, he was very rarely used there, MON was very loathe to use him even when the game was crying out for a 'back up striker' because he knew he wasnt good enough. he made a mistake, and was vertualy admitting it by not playing him
i remember when we signed him i was gobsmacked, just couldnt beleive it, and for the first time started to lose a bit of confidence in the manager
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Chris Jameson on May 27, 2010, 08:35:06 PM
Quote from: "Chris Smith"
You're over thinking it again, he was bought as a backup striker, another big man to cover Carew. He accepted his role without complaint.
I bet he also allowed himself a little chuckle each time he looked at his bank account as well.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: SoccerHQ on May 27, 2010, 08:37:08 PM
For all his ineptness I still raise a smile thinking about watching us v Liverpool in the SU bar and that half second of silence when people were working out who had actually just scored that overhead kick goal! Shame Heskey hasn't contributed anything as memorable at least.
Good luck Marlon.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: garyshawsknee on May 27, 2010, 08:59:07 PM
Didnt we pip Wigan to sign him?? That was an early worrying sign. Good luck to him though,least he never caused any unreast in the dressing room.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on May 27, 2010, 09:38:59 PM
I shall remember him for two fantastic moments:
His goal and Anfield and his celebration at Wrexham when he scored against them in the League Cup !!!
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Risso on May 27, 2010, 09:45:37 PM
Quote from: "Chris Smith"
You're over thinking it again, he was bought as a backup striker, another big man to cover Carew. He accepted his role without complaint.
When O'Neill bought him he said he wanted to get Harewood back to the form when he scored 16 goals in a season for West Ham. A huge, very costly failure all round. The best part of £10m of Randy's money pissed up the wall.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: hawkeye on May 27, 2010, 10:41:54 PM
Harewood is just one in the long list of our Martins transfer fuck ups in fact you can put a team together from them Carson Beye Knight Davies Shorey Sidwell Downing Routledge Salifou Harewood Heskey now that is a relegation team, even worse than DOL put out-
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Ads on May 27, 2010, 10:44:30 PM
I think you’re labouring your point.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Concrete John on May 28, 2010, 10:26:43 AM
Quote from: "KevinGage"
You can make a case for not being able to sign better than the likes of Knight, Harewood et al back in 2007 after our previous campaign.
Personally I don't buy it, as we were able to attract far better players than that during far darker times for the club.
Go on then - name them!
EDIT: only one I can think of is Savo, signed the summer after we nearly went down in 1995. I'll give you him.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: JUAN PABLO on May 28, 2010, 10:59:55 AM
Harewood was the first signing when I first realised MON was not the dogs bollocks after all..
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: KevinGage on May 28, 2010, 02:22:21 PM
Quote from: "John M"
Quote from: "KevinGage"
You can make a case for not being able to sign better than the likes of Knight, Harewood et al back in 2007 after our previous campaign.
Personally I don't buy it, as we were able to attract far better players than that during far darker times for the club.
Go on then - name them!
EDIT: only one I can think of is Savo, signed the summer after we nearly went down in 1995. I'll give you him.
OK John! No Problem!!!
Rambo, Keown and Elliott signed at a time when we looked well and truly on a downward spiral. Platt and Chris Price soon after relegation in '87.
McGrath Adrian Heath (even though he was pants for us) and Nielsen soon after avoiding the drop on our return to the top flight in 89.
Staunton, Richardson, Atkinson signed soon after relegation in 1991.
Draper, Southgate and Savo soon after beating the drop in 1995.
Sorenson after GT's nightmare return in 2003.
And Petrov in 2006, on the back of a particularly grim season under DOL.
Odd that you think only Savo would qualify. Not a dig John, but when did you start following the club? If it was mid 90's or soon after then fair enough.
Point remains, after finishing a respectable 11th in 2007 with money in the bank and at a time just before wealthy owners became de rigueur, a club the size of Aston Villa could have done far better than signing the likes of Knight and Harewood.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Chris Smith on May 28, 2010, 02:33:23 PM
Quote from: "Risso"
Quote from: "Chris Smith"
You're over thinking it again, he was bought as a backup striker, another big man to cover Carew. He accepted his role without complaint.
When O'Neill bought him he said he wanted to get Harewood back to the form when he scored 16 goals in a season for West Ham. A huge, very costly failure all round. The best part of £10m of Randy's money pissed up the wall.
Well he's hardly going to say "I bought him as cover" is he?
This self-flagellation over a signing that didn't turn out brilliantly really bemuses me.
Those with a track record of wanting to turn every thread into an anti MON just see it as another opportunity.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Brend'Watkins on May 28, 2010, 03:09:54 PM
Quote from: "hawkeye"
Harewood is just one in the long list of our Martins transfer fuck ups in fact you can put a team together from them Carson Beye Knight Davies Shorey Sidwell Downing Routledge Salifou Harewood Heskey now that is a relegation team, even worse than DOL put out-
When did he ever play this team?
The answer is never.
I will allow you Salifou and Routledge as players that haven't really worked out but hardly cost a kings ransom did they? It's too early to write off Downing and the rest who are still on the books we will get something back for our outlay should we decide to sell.
But hey, why bother putting some balance to MON's acquisitions when you can take only the negative and use it as this week's stick to beat him with.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Dave Cooper please on May 28, 2010, 03:16:51 PM
Quote from: "Chris Smith"
This self-flagellation over a signing that didn't turn out brilliantly really bemuses me.
Almost as bemusing as those trying vainly to justify such an arse signing.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Toronto Villa on May 28, 2010, 03:24:08 PM
Quote from: "Chris Smith"
Quote from: "Risso"
Quote from: "Chris Smith"
You're over thinking it again, he was bought as a backup striker, another big man to cover Carew. He accepted his role without complaint.
When O'Neill bought him he said he wanted to get Harewood back to the form when he scored 16 goals in a season for West Ham. A huge, very costly failure all round. The best part of £10m of Randy's money pissed up the wall.
Well he's hardly going to say "I bought him as cover" is he?
This self-flagellation over a signing that didn't turn out brilliantly really bemuses me.
Those with a track record of wanting to turn every thread into an anti MON just see it as another opportunity.
That's exactlly what is happening. It doesn't seem to matter that even the greatest managers on earth have had transfer failures. Much, much worse or embarassing than this purchase will ever be. Yet, some people have decided to concentrate all their efforts on a player that was purchased for a small sum in PL terms. He made a minor contribution in the grand scheme of things, but he is what he is, an average PL player. There's absolutely no need whatsover to turn yet another thread into a MON witch hunt. It's completely ridiculous.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: KevinGage on May 28, 2010, 03:37:29 PM
How is exactly is confirming the blindingly obvious (namely Harewood looked a crap signing at the time and still does) a witchhunt exactly?
Has it got to the stage now that even MON's obvious errors are to be shied away from, not up for discussion? Is that how it works?
I suppose it would be convenient for some, namely those who seem to get offended on his behalf.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Toronto Villa on May 28, 2010, 03:57:03 PM
Quote from: "KevinGage"
How is exactly is confirming the blindingly obvious (namely Harewood looked a crap signing at the time and still does) a witchhunt exactly?
Has it got to the stage now that even MON's obvious errors are to be shied away from, not up for discussion? Is that how it works?
I suppose it would be convenient for some, namely those who seem to get offended on his behalf.
Because the thread started out as information that the player maybe joining another team. It has within a couple of pages turned into people using it as an opportunity to criticise the manager.
I've posted a number of times quite recently that I don't know anymore if MON is the man to take us forward. But I certainly am not going to criticise everything he does like some people take the opportunity to do. With every manager, there are things that work out, and things that don't.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Brend'Watkins on May 28, 2010, 04:00:19 PM
I don't think anyone is getting offended but I for one am getting a bit pissed off with the continual knocking of the manager when he's doing a decent job.
Yes, he's made mistakes and I include the signing of Harewood as one of his major mistakes but then every manager has signed duffers and MON will undoubtedly sign another one too, it happens. If we were shite and in a relegation battle then the constant berating by the same protagonists might well be justified. But we're far from that and still all the anti MON brigade can do is slag the manager.
It's totally unjustified and getting tedious.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: KevinGage on May 28, 2010, 04:01:48 PM
Quote from: "toronto villa"
Because the thread started out as information that the player maybe joining another team. It has within a couple of pages turned into people using it as an opportunity to criticise the manager.
I've posted a number of times quite recently that I don't know anymore if MON is the man to take us forward. But I certainly am not going to criticise everything he does like some people take the opportunity to do. With every manager, there are things that work out, and things that don't.
No.
It started out as a fair few wishing Marlon well despite being crap for us and turned into an opportunity for the usual suspects to defend the manager.
Defenders of the Faith: "Harewood wasn't that bad a signing really." Started one game in three years, scored five goals.
Defenders of the Faith:"Well, we couldn't really be expected to sign better in 2007 after where we finished the previous year."
We've signed far better players than that after far more difficult seasons and with far less resources in years gone by.
Defenders of the Faith: "I...er, well... Oh this is just a witchhunt, that what it is! Any excuse to have a go at MON."
And so on.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Toronto Villa on May 28, 2010, 04:07:34 PM
The way some people go on about every little thing, you would honestly think we'd just finished 16th or something. I'll grant you that things weren't perfect last year, but a lot of fans would take our failures all day long. We have lots we can improve on, but you'd honestly never know from some of the posts that we finished 6th, a cup final and semi-final, and are back in Europe.
MON infuriates me with a lot of things he does. But I simply won't criticise him for everything because it is completely unwarranted. I don't even think Harewood was such a disaster. Had we paid £10 million for him, or as Man U did spending £30m of Berbatov, or what they spent on Veron a few years back, that would be worth talking about. But we didn't and it really is such small time droning on about a £4m transfer for a squad player. We didn't spend our entire transfer budget on him.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: KevinGage on May 28, 2010, 04:18:46 PM
There might be a degree of logic to some of that.
MON, like most managers will always make mistakes. But I think it's the attempt to justify even the most obvious of errors that grates.
You look at the start of this thread and there was little mention of the manager. It was only when Chris and John perceived that criticism of Marlon could be viewed as a slight on MON that his name gets more of a mention.
If you make a far from convincing argument -as they did- others will respond and pick holes in it.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Dave Cooper please on May 28, 2010, 04:50:26 PM
Quote from: "toronto villa"
Because the thread started out as information that the player maybe joining another team. It has within a couple of pages turned into people using it as an opportunity to criticise the manager.
Any thread about a player leaving will inevitably go down the path of whether he was a good player or not and whether he was a good or bad buy. In this case it's prettty obvious that all but a very small handful of people, and by no means are all of that majority the "usual MON bashers", think that Harewood was an abysmal piece of business.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: cheltenhamlion on May 28, 2010, 04:55:08 PM
£4 million quid and £5 million in wages for 3 years and 1 league start.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: MoetVillan on May 28, 2010, 05:01:43 PM
Makes Bosco Balaban look expensive.
Oh right.
Its not a witchhunt, just 606 listeners venting their rage on another so poor decision by their manager. Even Hodgson was getting stick early on in the season for sticking with Zamora, and we had to listen to Marcotti complaing about Jose managing "anti-football" teams. Load of tut.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Villa'Zawg on May 28, 2010, 05:31:33 PM
Quote from: "Dave Cooper"
Quote from: "toronto villa"
Because the thread started out as information that the player maybe joining another team. It has within a couple of pages turned into people using it as an opportunity to criticise the manager.
Any thread about a player leaving will inevitably go down the path of whether he was a good player or not and whether he was a good or bad buy. In this case it's prettty obvious that all but a very small handful of people, and by no means are all of that majority the "usual MON bashers", think that Harewood was an abysmal piece of business.
If the player in question is considered a poor player, O'Neill is crap for buying him. If the player in question is considered a good player, O'Neill is crap for letting him leave.
So any thread about a player leaving will inevitably go down the path of O'Neill is crap. It is the only thing some posters post about.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Dave Cooper please on May 28, 2010, 06:18:31 PM
I find it very difficult to debate with people who are paranoid.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: achilles on May 28, 2010, 06:26:07 PM
Personally I liked the guy and his enthusiasm; we have made far worse signings!
Wish him all the best!
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: john e on May 28, 2010, 06:35:23 PM
Quote from: "achilles"
Personally I liked the guy and his enthusiasm; we have made far worse signings!
Wish him all the best!
i liked the guy, but not when he was on the pitch, because he wernt very good.
i also wish him all the best, but be glad when he has gone,
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: JUAN PABLO on May 28, 2010, 06:51:21 PM
Yes managers will make mistakes , I except that.
I look at the Sidwell signing, I thought he would be an ok signing and I understand why MON signed him and dont blame MON for that signing .
Sidwell was a mistake but its different to the Harewood one, what the fook was MON thinking?
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Risso on May 28, 2010, 08:25:40 PM
Quote from: "Chris Smith"
Quote from: "Risso"
Quote from: "Chris Smith"
You're over thinking it again, he was bought as a backup striker, another big man to cover Carew. He accepted his role without complaint.
When O'Neill bought him he said he wanted to get Harewood back to the form when he scored 16 goals in a season for West Ham. A huge, very costly failure all round. The best part of £10m of Randy's money pissed up the wall.
Well he's hardly going to say "I bought him as cover" is he?
This self-flagellation over a signing that didn't turn out brilliantly really bemuses me.
Those with a track record of wanting to turn every thread into an anti MON just see it as another opportunity.
"Didn't turn out brilliantly".
I'll say again. He started ONE league game. He's cost us the best part of £10m all in. It's an almost legendary waste of money.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Legion on May 28, 2010, 08:27:46 PM
At the end of which match did Harewood and Young/Gabby (?) fall out somewhat when the latter would not pass to the former when running in on goal?
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: JJ-AV on May 28, 2010, 08:29:33 PM
Liked Marlon but he was absolutely shit and no doubt a disasterous signing.
Yes he scored a few important goals, but so has Emile Heskey. Take away Marlon's rampant beating of the chest whenever he won a corner and he'd be on similar levels of hate as Big Ivanhoe.
Atrocious piece of business and, as nice a bloke he was, the quicker he's gone and vacates the number 9 shirt the better.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: TheSandman on May 28, 2010, 08:47:45 PM
Quote from: "Legion"
At the end of which match did Harewood and Young/Gabby (?) fall out somewhat when the latter would not pass to the former when running in on goal?
I thought that was Gabs and NRC?
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Legion on May 28, 2010, 08:48:30 PM
I'm sure it was Marlon F. Harewood.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Risso on May 28, 2010, 08:50:15 PM
Quote from: "Legion"
I'm sure it was Marlon F. Harewood.
It was.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: hawkeye on May 28, 2010, 09:10:24 PM
Quote from: "Bren_d"
Quote from: "hawkeye"
Harewood is just one in the long list of our Martins transfer fuck ups in fact you can put a team together from them Carson Beye Knight Davies Shorey Sidwell Downing Routledge Salifou Harewood Heskey now that is a relegation team, even worse than DOL put out-
When did he ever play this team?
The answer is never.
I will allow you Salifou and Routledge as players that haven't really worked out but hardly cost a kings ransom did they? It's too early to write off Downing and the rest who are still on the books we will get something back for our outlay should we decide to sell.
But hey, why bother putting some balance to MON's acquisitions when you can take only the negative and use it as this week's stick to beat him with.
And how many are in the first team now? Downing who thats all and he shouldnt be based on his 30 performances, i think there are 11 sticks to beat him with here 11 signings in 4 years that are not good enough according to the manager that bought them, this is some transfer history
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: eamonn on May 28, 2010, 10:39:10 PM
Quote from: "Legion"
At the end of which match did Harewood and Young/Gabby (?) fall out somewhat when the latter would not pass to the former when running in on goal?
It was Gabby and I'm pretty sure it was the 2-0 win over Everton at VP in Sep 2007.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Greg N'Ash on May 28, 2010, 11:20:54 PM
There's this myth that he was a back up striker. You don't spend 5m and 27k a week on a back-up. Salifou is back-up, Kevin Phillips was back up, MFH was brought in to challenge the first teamers and failed miserably
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: tommy_boy on May 29, 2010, 12:08:52 AM
Quote from: "hawkeye"
Harewood is just one in the long list of our Martins transfer fuck ups in fact you can put a team together from them Carson Beye Knight Davies Shorey Sidwell Downing Routledge Salifou Harewood Heskey now that is a relegation team, even worse than DOL put out-
Davies was a success, but lost his place when he got injured.
Downing hasnt had yet a full season with Villa, he missed preseason.
Heskey is going to S Africa, we bought him for 3.5m, how bad a signing can he be? And many clubs are interested in him.
Knight had some decent performances and was sold for almost 5m.
Salifou, Routledge and Carson didnt cost us anything.
And we will probably get our money back for Shorey.
That leaves us with Beye, Sidwell and Harewood. Now that's not a long list..
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Dave on May 29, 2010, 12:11:16 AM
Quote from: "tommy_boy"
Salifou, Routledge and Carson didnt cost us anything.
Depressingly, those three cost us over £3m in transfer fees alone, before you even start on wages.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: tommy_boy on May 29, 2010, 12:16:58 AM
routledge cost us 1.25m and was sold for 600k to qpr. salifou's wages our like 5k per week. and carson was on loan.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: JJ-AV on May 29, 2010, 12:17:08 AM
Knight was a good signing, he was pretty solid overall, happy to sit on the bench, scored some important goals and had some 'big' performances and we made a profit on him.
He was one of us too, he was always given unfair stick because he was seen as one of the reasons Cahill left and was immediatly placed in the MFH bracket. Decent player.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Dave on May 29, 2010, 12:22:34 AM
Quote from: "tommy_boy"
routledge cost us 1.25m and was sold for 600k to qpr. salifou's wages our like 5k per week. and carson was on loan.
Carson was a loan which cost us a loan fee of £2m.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: PaulWinch again on May 29, 2010, 12:38:17 AM
We spent a horrible fee and wages on Marlon. We never should have, but in his defence he always gave his best and never complained. M'ON was just completely wrong and I don't think anyone can argue with that.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: hawkeye on May 29, 2010, 01:02:30 AM
Quote from: "tommy_boy"
Quote from: "hawkeye"
Harewood is just one in the long list of our Martins transfer fuck ups in fact you can put a team together from them Carson Beye Knight Davies Shorey Sidwell Downing Routledge Salifou Harewood Heskey now that is a relegation team, even worse than DOL put out-
Davies was a success, but lost his place when he got injured. You call £9mil for him a success Downing hasnt had yet a full season with Villa, he missed preseason. This arguement is a bit tired, he played 30 games, he did nothing at boro the previous 2 seasons £12mil, marvelous
Heskey is going to S Africa, we bought him for 3.5m, how bad a signing can he be? And many clubs are interested in him. Says who, 3 goals
Knight had some decent performances and was sold for almost 5m.
Salifou, Routledge and Carson didnt cost us anything. They did £2mil on Carson
And we will probably get our money back for Shorey. Probably what about his wages?
That leaves us with Beye, Sidwell and Harewood. Now that's not a long list..
yes keep trying to justify his transfers, MON can do no wrong zzzzz
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: usav on May 29, 2010, 01:05:49 AM
Quote from: "TheSandman"
Quote from: "Legion"
At the end of which match did Harewood and Young/Gabby (?) fall out somewhat when the latter would not pass to the former when running in on goal?
I thought that was Gabs and NRC?
I thought so too - on more than one occasion.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: tommy_boy on May 29, 2010, 01:56:20 AM
Quote from: "hawkeye"
Quote from: "tommy_boy"
Quote from: "hawkeye"
Harewood is just one in the long list of our Martins transfer fuck ups in fact you can put a team together from them Carson Beye Knight Davies Shorey Sidwell Downing Routledge Salifou Harewood Heskey now that is a relegation team, even worse than DOL put out-
Davies was a success, but lost his place when he got injured. You call £9mil for him a success Downing hasnt had yet a full season with Villa, he missed preseason. This arguement is a bit tired, he played 30 games, he did nothing at boro the previous 2 seasons £12mil, marvelous
Heskey is going to S Africa, we bought him for 3.5m, how bad a signing can he be? And many clubs are interested in him. Says who, 3 goals
Knight had some decent performances and was sold for almost 5m.
Salifou, Routledge and Carson didnt cost us anything. They did £2mil on Carson
And we will probably get our money back for Shorey. Probably what about his wages?
That leaves us with Beye, Sidwell and Harewood. Now that's not a long list..
yes keep trying to justify his transfers, MON can do no wrong zzzzz
i am not trying to say that MON is always right. I just disagree with you that Knight, Davies, Downing, Heskey, Salifou were "fuck ups".
Yes Davies cost 9m, but he was a success. He lost his place due to injury, and we will get 7m from him back. He has a bright future, unfortunately we cannot have 4 centre back, so we have to sell him to get a striker or a right back.
Downing lost the whole preseason. He came in a new team. Its early to judge him. Stats for 2007–08, 38 appearances, 9 goals. Not bad.
Heskey is in the England squad--If you are an expert, how do you explain that..Scoring is not his main role. How is that a "fuck up", for only 3,5m.
Stan Collymore from Liverpool for 7m(1997) is a "fuck up". Salifou is not. Did you get my point? Rafa Benitez, yes, he made some very bad transfers.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Percy McCarthy on May 29, 2010, 02:02:57 AM
You're wasting your time tommy boy, hawkeye is convinced that Martin O'Neill is in fact the anti-Christ.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: JUAN PABLO on May 29, 2010, 04:00:43 AM
Quote from: tommy_boy
.
Heskey is going to S Africa, we bought him for 3.5m, how bad a signing can he be? And many clubs are interested in him.
..[/quote
fooking really bad....
clubs.... 0
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: JUAN PABLO on May 29, 2010, 04:03:46 AM
Quote from: "tommy_boy"
Quote from: "hawkeye"
Quote from: "tommy_boy"
Quote from: "hawkeye"
Harewood is just one in the long list of our Martins transfer fuck ups in fact you can put a team together from them Carson Beye Knight Davies Shorey Sidwell Downing Routledge Salifou Harewood Heskey now that is a relegation team, even worse than DOL put out-
Davies was a success, but lost his place when he got injured. You call £9mil for him a success Downing hasnt had yet a full season with Villa, he missed preseason. This arguement is a bit tired, he played 30 games, he did nothing at boro the previous 2 seasons £12mil, marvelous
Heskey is going to S Africa, we bought him for 3.5m, how bad a signing can he be? And many clubs are interested in him. Says who, 3 goals
Knight had some decent performances and was sold for almost 5m.
Salifou, Routledge and Carson didnt cost us anything. They did £2mil on Carson
And we will probably get our money back for Shorey. Probably what about his wages?
That leaves us with Beye, Sidwell and Harewood. Now that's not a long list..
yes keep trying to justify his transfers, MON can do no wrong zzzzz
i am not trying to say that MON is always right. I just disagree with you that Knight, Davies, Downing, Heskey, Salifou were "fuck ups".
Yes Davies cost 9m, but he was a success. He lost his place due to injury, and we will get 7m from him back. He has a bright future, unfortunately we cannot have 4 centre back, so we have to sell him to get a striker or a right back.
Downing lost the whole preseason. He came in a new team. Its early to judge him. Stats for 2007–08, 38 appearances, 9 goals. Not bad.
Heskey is in the England squad--If you are an expert, how do you explain that..Scoring is not his main role. How is that a "fuck up", for only 3,5m.
Stan Collymore from Liverpool for 7m(1997) is a "fuck up". Salifou is not. Did you get my point? Rafa Benitez, yes, he made some very bad transfers.
you just keep convincing yourself
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Chris Smith on May 29, 2010, 07:39:54 AM
Quote from: "KevinGage"
Quote from: "toronto villa"
Because the thread started out as information that the player maybe joining another team. It has within a couple of pages turned into people using it as an opportunity to criticise the manager.
I've posted a number of times quite recently that I don't know anymore if MON is the man to take us forward. But I certainly am not going to criticise everything he does like some people take the opportunity to do. With every manager, there are things that work out, and things that don't.
No.
It started out as a fair few wishing Marlon well despite being crap for us and turned into an opportunity for the usual suspects to defend the manager.
Defenders of the Faith: "Harewood wasn't that bad a signing really." Started one game in three years, scored five goals.
Defenders of the Faith:"Well, we couldn't really be expected to sign better in 2007 after where we finished the previous year."
We've signed far better players than that after far more difficult seasons and with far less resources in years gone by.
Defenders of the Faith: "I...er, well... Oh this is just a witchhunt, that what it is! Any excuse to have a go at MON."
And so on.
Thts isn't what happened though but why let the facts get in the way.
Within a few posts we had people saying stuff like "cracking business. Well done Martin " and "not his fault , just the managers". My reply was "If only we had one of those other managers who have a 100% success rate with every signing they make."
Almost every single thread these days follows the same predictable route.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Risso on May 29, 2010, 10:10:24 AM
Quote from: "Chris Smith"
Almost every single thread these days follows the same predictable route.
Why don't you give it a rest then? The signing of Harewood has been a complete and utter disaster, and no amount of your moaning about other posters is going to change that.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Chris Smith on May 29, 2010, 10:20:44 AM
Quote from: "Risso"
Quote from: "Chris Smith"
Almost every single thread these days follows the same predictable route.
Why don't you give it a rest then? The signing of Harewood has been a complete and utter disaster, and no amount of your moaning about other posters is going to change that.
I didn't like the tone of Kevin;s post about 'defenders of the faith' so wanted to point out to him that he'd got it wrong.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Risso on May 29, 2010, 10:27:39 AM
Quote from: "Chris Smith"
I didn't like the tone of Kevin;s post about 'defenders of the faith' so wanted to point out to him that he'd got it wrong.
Given the tone of your post that said:
Quote
This self-flagellation over a signing that didn't turn out brilliantly really bemuses me.
Those with a track record of wanting to turn every thread into an anti MON just see it as another opportunity.
I'd say it's just another case of you not realising that you're just as bad.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: tommy_boy on May 29, 2010, 11:37:50 AM
i totally agree that harewood, sidwell were bad signings. but i 100% disagree that knight, davies, heskey, downing and many others were aboslute disasters. get serious
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Risso on May 29, 2010, 11:42:30 AM
Quote from: "tommy_boy"
i totally agree that harewood, sidwell were bad signings. but i 100% disagree that knight, davies, heskey, downing and many others were aboslute disasters. get serious
At least having signed a dud in Harewood, O'Neill realised his mistake and didn't play him. With Heskey, he signed a dud AND continued to let him infest the first team.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: KevinGage on May 29, 2010, 01:49:15 PM
Quote from: "Chris Smith"
Quote from: "Risso"
Quote from: "Chris Smith"
Almost every single thread these days follows the same predictable route.
Why don't you give it a rest then? The signing of Harewood has been a complete and utter disaster, and no amount of your moaning about other posters is going to change that.
I didn't like the tone of Kevin;s post about 'defenders of the faith' so wanted to point out to him that he'd got it wrong.
Had I got it wrong you'd be perfectly entitled to point it out.
But I didn't, so (as usual) your argument has no merit whatsoever.
It's admirable that you persist in defending even the most blatant of MON's fcuk ups, to the point that these type of threads soon resemble the internet equivalent of the Battle of Rorke's Drift. But you haven't actually got to the stage where you've started to believe what you write, have you?
I credit you with more intelligence than that. Taking an otherwise neutral, moderate thread and throwing in a few incendiary remarks just for sport, now that I can believe.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Villa'Zawg on May 29, 2010, 02:31:49 PM
Quote from: "Risso"
Quote from: "tommy_boy"
i totally agree that harewood, sidwell were bad signings. but i 100% disagree that knight, davies, heskey, downing and many others were aboslute disasters. get serious
At least having signed a dud in Harewood, O'Neill realised his mistake and didn't play him. With Heskey, he signed a dud AND continued to let him infest the first team.
Harewood wasn't anything like the cataclysmic failure that you portray him as. He was brought in as a £4m back up striker behind Agbonlahor and Carew and he did an OK job when called upon as sub in his first season. He wasn't able to force his way into the team ahead of two of the top 10 strikers in the country, there's no shame in that. Not a good signing but these things happen to all managers and often they're an awful lot more expensive than Harewood.
I know our midfield still doesn't scored enough goals but they did score about twice as many whilst Heskey was on the pitch compared to when Carew was on the pitch. That's what all the professionals say about him isn't it, he brings others into the game. It would seem that "people in the game" recognise and value that trait more than you do.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Risso on May 29, 2010, 02:36:25 PM
Quote from: "Villadawg"
Quote from: "Risso"
Quote from: "tommy_boy"
i totally agree that harewood, sidwell were bad signings. but i 100% disagree that knight, davies, heskey, downing and many others were aboslute disasters. get serious
At least having signed a dud in Harewood, O'Neill realised his mistake and didn't play him. With Heskey, he signed a dud AND continued to let him infest the first team.
Harewood wasn't anything like the cataclysmic failure that you portray him as. He was brought in as a £4m back up striker behind Agbonlahor and Carew and he did an OK job when called upon as sub in his first season. He wasn't able to force his way into the team ahead of two of the top 10 strikers in the country, there's no shame in that. Not a good signing but these things happen to all managers and often they're an awful lot more expensive than Harewood.
I know our midfield still doesn't scored enough goals but they did score about twice as many whilst Heskey was on the pitch compared to when Carew was on the pitch. That's what all the professionals say about him isn't it, he brings others into the game. It would seem that "people in the game" recognise and value that trait more than you do.
I hope we can fend off the inevitable bids for Heskey from messrs Ferguson, Wenger, Redknapp et al this summer then. A striker so prized by "people in the game" surely should be playing Champions League football.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Chris Smith on May 29, 2010, 02:43:19 PM
Quote from: "KevinGage"
Quote from: "Chris Smith"
Quote from: "Risso"
Quote from: "Chris Smith"
Almost every single thread these days follows the same predictable route.
Why don't you give it a rest then? The signing of Harewood has been a complete and utter disaster, and no amount of your moaning about other posters is going to change that.
I didn't like the tone of Kevin;s post about 'defenders of the faith' so wanted to point out to him that he'd got it wrong.
Had I got it wrong you'd be perfectly entitled to point it out.
But I didn't, so (as usual) your argument has no merit whatsoever.
It's admirable that you persist in defending even the most blatant of MON's fcuk ups, to the point that these type of threads soon resemble the internet equivalent of the Battle of Rorke's Drift. But you haven't actually got to the stage where you've started to believe what you write, have you?
I credit you with more intelligence than that. Taking an otherwise neutral, moderate thread and throwing in a few incendiary remarks just for sport, now that I can believe.
You did get it wrong, but then you almost always do and invariably use twice as many words as you need to. I've even shown you the remarks that turned this into yet another put the boot into MON thread.
There isn't anyone trying to claim it was a great signing, what is being said is that he was bought as a backup to Carew and did an adequate job for a short period until we outgrew him. I'd much rather us have signed a better player but he's not up there with the Jeffers and Balaban level of fuck ups however much you try to pretend it is.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: pauliewalnuts on May 29, 2010, 02:48:39 PM
Harewood not a cataclysmic failure?
3 years, started 1 league game. 5 league goals.
4m transfer fee plus, say, 30k a week for three years which works out at 4.8 million pounds
So, that's just under nine million pounds total, or just under 1.8 million pounds per league goal.
It is beyond belief that anyone can say - with a straight face - that Harewood was anything like a decent signing.
Maybe if Randy is thinking of reining in the spending, it will be precisely that kind of casual approach to spending that makes me think he's got a point.
And, yes, I do realise all managers make bad signings. There are two diferences here, though.
Firstly, I don't really care about other managers, I care about the Aston Villa manager.
Secondly, a blind man on a galloping horse could have spotted Harewood's main fault (the fact that he's shit) when we snatched him away from Wigan Athletic three years ago, so god knows why MON didn't.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Chris Smith on May 29, 2010, 03:02:03 PM
Quote from: "pauliewalnuts"
And, yes, I do realise all managers make bad signings. There are two diferences here, though.
Firstly, I don't really care about other managers, I care about the Aston Villa manager.
Secondly, a blind man on a galloping horse could have spotted Harewood's main fault (the fact that he's shit) when we snatched him away from Wigan Athletic three years ago, so god knows why MON didn't.
I take it then that we won't be seeing you ever compare MON to other managers again. It is relavant because it demonstrates that signing players is not an exact science. Some come off, some don't. I still say that for the job he was signed to, backup to Carew, do he did OK for a season but as soon as our aspirations grew he wasn't up to the job and he should have been moved on.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Villa'Zawg on May 29, 2010, 03:05:57 PM
Quote from: "pauliewalnuts"
Harewood not a cataclysmic failure?
3 years, started 1 league game. 5 league goals.
4m transfer fee plus, say, 30k a week for three years which works out at 4.8 million pounds
So, that's just under nine million pounds total, or just under 1.8 million pounds per league goal.
It is beyond belief that anyone can say - with a straight face - that Harewood was anything like a decent signing.
Maybe if Randy is thinking of reining in the spending, it will be precisely that kind of casual approach to spending that makes me think he's got a point.
And, yes, I do realise all managers make bad signings. There are two diferences here, though.
Firstly, I don't really care about other managers, I care about the Aston Villa manager.
Secondly, a blind man on a galloping horse could have spotted Harewood's main fault (the fact that he's shit) when we snatched him away from Wigan Athletic three years ago, so god knows why MON didn't.
Fair enough, you'll be able to identify mistakes, declare Harewood is catyclysmic failure and O'Neill is rubbish because he made that mistake. Just don't expect to be taken seriously by people who also have signings like Hargreaves and Aquilani in their terms of reference.
I'm pretty sure Lerner understands enough about running clubs by now to know that some signings don't come off. I think you probably do as well but you're not going to let that get in the way of a bit of O'Neill bashing.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: pauliewalnuts on May 29, 2010, 03:12:40 PM
You're going off on an irrelevant tangent, Chris.
I know it isn't an exact science, I said all managers make mistakes. I know not all signings come off. I specifically said that, because I knew you'd focus on that point rather than face the facts with Harewood.
I also disagree he did a decent job as back up for Carew.
For example, after he came on and gave away the penalty at Spurs, the manager himself didn't let him on the pitch for just short of two months. In that time he was only on the bench once. What kind of good job was he doing then?
As you said, he should have been moved on. He wasn't though, and now here we are with his contract ended, so no resale money, and he's cost us the sharp end of 9 million pounds.
That is, by any definition, a pretty terrible piece of transfer business.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: pauliewalnuts on May 29, 2010, 03:17:46 PM
Quote from: "Villadawg"
Quote from: "pauliewalnuts"
Harewood not a cataclysmic failure?
3 years, started 1 league game. 5 league goals.
4m transfer fee plus, say, 30k a week for three years which works out at 4.8 million pounds
So, that's just under nine million pounds total, or just under 1.8 million pounds per league goal.
It is beyond belief that anyone can say - with a straight face - that Harewood was anything like a decent signing.
Maybe if Randy is thinking of reining in the spending, it will be precisely that kind of casual approach to spending that makes me think he's got a point.
And, yes, I do realise all managers make bad signings. There are two diferences here, though.
Firstly, I don't really care about other managers, I care about the Aston Villa manager.
Secondly, a blind man on a galloping horse could have spotted Harewood's main fault (the fact that he's shit) when we snatched him away from Wigan Athletic three years ago, so god knows why MON didn't.
Fair enough, you'll be able to identify mistakes, declare Harewood is catyclysmic failure and O'Neill is rubbish because he made that mistake. Just don't expect to be taken seriously by people who also have signings like Hargreaves and Aquilani in their terms of reference.
I'm pretty sure Lerner understands enough about running clubs by now to know that some signings don't come off. I think you probably do as well but you're not going to let that get in the way of a bit of O'Neill bashing.
That's a frankly pathetic post.
I didn't say MON is rubbish because he made that mistake. I said it was a mistake.
I really don't get your point with Hargreaves and Acquilani, unless you've decided to miss the bit where i specifically said I realise other managers make mistakes. Read it again.
Your last paragraph - again, did you actually read my post? And do you find it outrageous that I care about our mistakes in particular?
Nine million pounds wasted on a player is poor. That's not MON bashing, that's a fact.
Incidentally, before you go with that ridiculous MON bashing bullshit, you might want to check out the various threads slagging the signing of Downing, where I'm firmly on the side of those who believe he'll turn out to be a good signing.
Maybe, just maybe I'm saying Harewood was a poor signing because, well, I actually believe it, rather than pushing some kind of agenda, and maybe you could do me the honour of taking me at my word rather than acting so pompously?
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Villa'Zawg on May 29, 2010, 05:47:17 PM
Quote from: "pauliewalnuts"
Quote from: "Villadawg"
Quote from: "pauliewalnuts"
Harewood not a cataclysmic failure?
3 years, started 1 league game. 5 league goals.
4m transfer fee plus, say, 30k a week for three years which works out at 4.8 million pounds
So, that's just under nine million pounds total, or just under 1.8 million pounds per league goal.
It is beyond belief that anyone can say - with a straight face - that Harewood was anything like a decent signing.
Maybe if Randy is thinking of reining in the spending, it will be precisely that kind of casual approach to spending that makes me think he's got a point.
And, yes, I do realise all managers make bad signings. There are two diferences here, though.
Firstly, I don't really care about other managers, I care about the Aston Villa manager.
Secondly, a blind man on a galloping horse could have spotted Harewood's main fault (the fact that he's shit) when we snatched him away from Wigan Athletic three years ago, so god knows why MON didn't.
Fair enough, you'll be able to identify mistakes, declare Harewood is catyclysmic failure and O'Neill is rubbish because he made that mistake. Just don't expect to be taken seriously by people who also have signings like Hargreaves and Aquilani in their terms of reference.
I'm pretty sure Lerner understands enough about running clubs by now to know that some signings don't come off. I think you probably do as well but you're not going to let that get in the way of a bit of O'Neill bashing.
That's a frankly pathetic post.
I didn't say MON is rubbish because he made that mistake. I said it was a mistake.
I really don't get your point with Hargreaves and Acquilani, unless you've decided to miss the bit where i specifically said I realise other managers make mistakes. Read it again.
Your last paragraph - again, did you actually read my post? And do you find it outrageous that I care about our mistakes in particular?
Nine million pounds wasted on a player is poor. That's not MON bashing, that's a fact.
Incidentally, before you go with that ridiculous MON bashing bullshit, you might want to check out the various threads slagging the signing of Downing, where I'm firmly on the side of those who believe he'll turn out to be a good signing.
Maybe, just maybe I'm saying Harewood was a poor signing because, well, I actually believe it, rather than pushing some kind of agenda, and maybe you could do me the honour of taking me at my word rather than acting so pompously?
I'm not interested in your semantic, nitpicking bullshit.
You do your Tonto act to Risso's Lone Ranger on thread after thread, with the same tired old O'Neill bashing.
And no, I don't think I will take you at your word just because you've decided to have a hissy fit.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: AsTallAsLions on May 29, 2010, 05:49:19 PM
Quote from: "Villadawg"
Quote from: "pauliewalnuts"
Quote from: "Villadawg"
Quote from: "pauliewalnuts"
Harewood not a cataclysmic failure?
3 years, started 1 league game. 5 league goals.
4m transfer fee plus, say, 30k a week for three years which works out at 4.8 million pounds
So, that's just under nine million pounds total, or just under 1.8 million pounds per league goal.
It is beyond belief that anyone can say - with a straight face - that Harewood was anything like a decent signing.
Maybe if Randy is thinking of reining in the spending, it will be precisely that kind of casual approach to spending that makes me think he's got a point.
And, yes, I do realise all managers make bad signings. There are two diferences here, though.
Firstly, I don't really care about other managers, I care about the Aston Villa manager.
Secondly, a blind man on a galloping horse could have spotted Harewood's main fault (the fact that he's shit) when we snatched him away from Wigan Athletic three years ago, so god knows why MON didn't.
Fair enough, you'll be able to identify mistakes, declare Harewood is catyclysmic failure and O'Neill is rubbish because he made that mistake. Just don't expect to be taken seriously by people who also have signings like Hargreaves and Aquilani in their terms of reference.
I'm pretty sure Lerner understands enough about running clubs by now to know that some signings don't come off. I think you probably do as well but you're not going to let that get in the way of a bit of O'Neill bashing.
That's a frankly pathetic post.
I didn't say MON is rubbish because he made that mistake. I said it was a mistake.
I really don't get your point with Hargreaves and Acquilani, unless you've decided to miss the bit where i specifically said I realise other managers make mistakes. Read it again.
Your last paragraph - again, did you actually read my post? And do you find it outrageous that I care about our mistakes in particular?
Nine million pounds wasted on a player is poor. That's not MON bashing, that's a fact.
Incidentally, before you go with that ridiculous MON bashing bullshit, you might want to check out the various threads slagging the signing of Downing, where I'm firmly on the side of those who believe he'll turn out to be a good signing.
Maybe, just maybe I'm saying Harewood was a poor signing because, well, I actually believe it, rather than pushing some kind of agenda, and maybe you could do me the honour of taking me at my word rather than acting so pompously?
I'm not interested in your semantic, nitpicking bullshit.
You do your Tonto act to Risso's Lone Ranger on thread after thread, with the same tired old O'Neill bashing.
And no, I don't think I will take you at your word just because you've decided to have a hissy fit.
Haha, you guys should do a double act.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Legion on May 29, 2010, 05:50:48 PM
Time to calm down a little bit.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Risso on May 29, 2010, 07:11:37 PM
Quote from: "Villadawg"
I'm not interested in your semantic, nitpicking bullshit.
You do your Tonto act to Risso's Lone Ranger on thread after thread, with the same tired old O'Neill bashing.
And no, I don't think I will take you at your word just because you've decided to have a hissy fit.
Sorry, I must have missed the part where I insulted you.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Rip Van We Go Again on May 30, 2010, 09:17:16 AM
Quote from: "Risso"
Quote from: "Villadawg"
I'm not interested in your semantic, nitpicking bullshit.
You do your Tonto act to Risso's Lone Ranger on thread after thread, with the same tired old O'Neill bashing.
And no, I don't think I will take you at your word just because you've decided to have a hissy fit.
Sorry, I must have missed the part where I insulted you.
Sorry Villadawg, you're getting a ted sensitive. Check the facts, only 1.3599228% of Risso's posts have involved any agression towards you. Paulie's is even lower at 1.0000373%
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Villa'Zawg on May 30, 2010, 11:13:11 AM
Quote from: "Mark Fletcher"
Quote from: "Risso"
Quote from: "Villadawg"
I'm not interested in your semantic, nitpicking bullshit.
You do your Tonto act to Risso's Lone Ranger on thread after thread, with the same tired old O'Neill bashing.
And no, I don't think I will take you at your word just because you've decided to have a hissy fit.
Sorry, I must have missed the part where I insulted you.
Sorry Villadawg, you're getting a ted sensitive. Check the facts, only 1.3599228% of Risso's posts have involved any agression towards you. Paulie's is even lower at 1.0000373%
Yeah, you’re right. I have had time to reflect on the facts that my original accusation of O’Neill bashing was without foundation and fully warranted the entirely reasonable “pathetic post…bullshit…acting so pompously” response from Paulie.
I can now see that my over the top response of “semantic nitpicking bullshit….hissy fit” and reference to Risso and Paulie as an O’Neill bashing double act was entirely without foundation or justification.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: adrenachrome on May 30, 2010, 11:16:23 AM
Hi-yo, Silver, away!
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: VillaZogmariner on May 30, 2010, 11:50:20 AM
Sorry to take this off topic, but...
Good luck to Marlon wherever he ends up. He will never be classed as the greatest player to pull on a Villa shirt, but his heart was in it. More than can be said about some players.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Lucky Eddie on May 30, 2010, 12:41:10 PM
That kid ran his socks off for Aston Villa whenever he got the chance to pull the shirt on - he deserves your respect for that. If Baros had Marlons application . . . . . . . . . .. . . .
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Chris Jameson on May 30, 2010, 02:36:31 PM
Quote from: "Lucky Eddie"
That kid ran his socks off for Aston Villa whenever he got the chance to pull the shirt on - he deserves your respect for that. If Baros had Marlons application . . . . . . . . . .. . . .
Even if he is only 8 years old it doesn't alter the fact he is bloody rubbish.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: LeeB on May 30, 2010, 03:21:21 PM
Quote from: "Lucky Eddie"
That kid ran his socks off for Aston Villa whenever he got the chance to pull the shirt on - he deserves your respect for that. If Baros had Marlons application . . . . . . . . . .. . . .
If Carew had Marlon's heart he'd be the best centre-forward in the world.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: villa for life on May 30, 2010, 04:34:23 PM
but Marlon did better than Bosko, didn't he?
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: pauliewalnuts on May 30, 2010, 04:52:29 PM
Quote from: "Villadawg"
Quote from: "Mark Fletcher"
Quote from: "Risso"
Quote from: "Villadawg"
I'm not interested in your semantic, nitpicking bullshit.
You do your Tonto act to Risso's Lone Ranger on thread after thread, with the same tired old O'Neill bashing.
And no, I don't think I will take you at your word just because you've decided to have a hissy fit.
Sorry, I must have missed the part where I insulted you.
Sorry Villadawg, you're getting a ted sensitive. Check the facts, only 1.3599228% of Risso's posts have involved any agression towards you. Paulie's is even lower at 1.0000373%
Yeah, you’re right. I have had time to reflect on the facts that my original accusation of O’Neill bashing was without foundation and fully warranted the entirely reasonable “pathetic post…bullshit…acting so pompously” response from Paulie.
I can now see that my over the top response of “semantic nitpicking bullshit….hissy fit” and reference to Risso and Paulie as an O’Neill bashing double act was entirely without foundation or justification.
What I don't get is why you refuse to accept that I'm judging the Harewood signing the way I see it? I'm not demanding you agree with me, I'm suggesting (seemingly pointlessly) that you at least give me the respect to accept I actually believe what I'm saying.
I can point out loads of instances where he's handled situations very well - Barry, for example, and situations - such as Downing - where I think people are quick to judge. If I had some kind of agenda, I wouldn't even give him that praise.
Also, it's not "semantics". It is me disagreeing with you and pointing out where I think you're being unfair.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: ozzjim on May 30, 2010, 05:01:53 PM
I am amazed that the signing of Harewood is being likened to Hargreaves - who has only failed only due to injury and Aquilani who was injured for a long time and then hardly played. When the latter is given a solid run in their side he can be judged, as for the former, I wish he was fit enough to be at the World Cup, as he is the best holding mid in England. Comparison to Marlon.... get out.
O'Neill has spent a lot of money and wages on dross, and then not played them, while moaning about a small squad. Doesn't wash, and defending it is futile as it is backed up with facts!
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Concrete John on May 30, 2010, 06:25:05 PM
Quote from: "KevinGage"
Quote from: "John M"
Quote from: "KevinGage"
You can make a case for not being able to sign better than the likes of Knight, Harewood et al back in 2007 after our previous campaign.
Personally I don't buy it, as we were able to attract far better players than that during far darker times for the club.
Go on then - name them!
EDIT: only one I can think of is Savo, signed the summer after we nearly went down in 1995. I'll give you him.
OK John! No Problem!!!
Rambo, Keown and Elliott signed at a time when we looked well and truly on a downward spiral. Platt and Chris Price soon after relegation in '87.
McGrath Adrian Heath (even though he was pants for us) and Nielsen soon after avoiding the drop on our return to the top flight in 89.
Staunton, Richardson, Atkinson signed soon after relegation in 1991.
Draper, Southgate and Savo soon after beating the drop in 1995.
Sorenson after GT's nightmare return in 2003.
And Petrov in 2006, on the back of a particularly grim season under DOL.
Odd that you think only Savo would qualify. Not a dig John, but when did you start following the club? If it was mid 90's or soon after then fair enough.
Point remains, after finishing a respectable 11th in 2007 with money in the bank and at a time just before wealthy owners became de rigueur, a club the size of Aston Villa could have done far better than signing the likes of Knight and Harewood.
1992, so you're not far wrong!
You bring up some good players, but I do think it's difficult to meaningfully compare present PL conditions with players signed in the 80s. For instance, McGrath had 'certain issues' that were why Fergie was getting shot and Platt was a then unknown from Crewe. Southgate came from as an average looking midfielder from a relegated Palace side.
Better than the Hare? Well yes, of course they are. Proof that we could have got better to be a reserve striker for the 11th placed PL side? Not for me!
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: hilts_coolerking on May 30, 2010, 06:32:31 PM
Quote from: "John M"
Better than the Hare? Well yes, of course they are. Proof that we could have got better to be a reserve striker for the 11th placed PL side? Not for me!
Are you saying John that you believe there is no-one we could have signed instead of Harewood who would have returned better figures than those paulie quoted earlier, i.e. 3 years, started 1 league game, 5 league goals. Not to mention the costs involved.
I know you like to stick up for Martin but it's stretching credulity to breaking point to suggest we couldn't possibly have done better than that.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Concrete John on May 30, 2010, 06:42:14 PM
Quote from: "hilts_coolerking"
Quote from: "John M"
Better than the Hare? Well yes, of course they are. Proof that we could have got better to be a reserve striker for the 11th placed PL side? Not for me!
Are you saying John that you believe there is no-one we could have signed instead of Harewood who would have returned better figures than those paulie quoted earlier, i.e. 3 years, started 1 league game, 5 league goals. Not to mention the costs involved.
I know you like to stick up for Martin but it's stretching credulity to breaking point to suggest we couldn't possibly have done better than that.
I'm saying that of those strikers available at the time I don't think anyone better would have come to sit on our bench.
The three years is the thing that was the issue - we should have moved him on sooner!
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: hilts_coolerking on May 30, 2010, 06:50:38 PM
Quote from: "John M"
I'm saying that of those strikers available at the time I don't think anyone better would have come to sit on our bench.
The three years is the thing that was the issue - we should have moved him on sooner!
Of all the available strikers in world football, the best we could possibly have signed for that money was Marlon Harewood? I'm sorry but I just don't buy that.
Quite obviously we should never have signed him the first place. He had a reputation as a donkey long before we signed him. But given that the error was made, I agree we should have moved him on as soon as it became apparent to Martin (as opposed to pretty much everyone else) how poor he was.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Concrete John on May 30, 2010, 06:55:23 PM
Quote from: "hilts_coolerking"
Quote from: "John M"
I'm saying that of those strikers available at the time I don't think anyone better would have come to sit on our bench.
The three years is the thing that was the issue - we should have moved him on sooner!
Of all the available strikers in world football, the best we could possibly have signed for that money was Marlon Harewood? I'm sorry but I just don't buy that.
Quite obviously we should never have signed him the first place. He had a reputation as a donkey long before we signed him. But given that the error was made, I agree we should have moved him on as soon as it became apparent to Martin (as opposed to pretty much everyone else) how poor he was.
He had scored 16 PL goals not long before we signed him and that was what Martin was after. I didn't want him either and never rated him, but that doesn't mean I can't step back and understand the reasoning and I don't let what happened since change my view of the decision he made at the time.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Woofles The Wonder Dog on May 30, 2010, 08:02:53 PM
I know a few West Ham fans. All of them quite independently at the time said that Marlon had done well for them but that he was a confidence player - one who needed to keep his spirits up or he'd be rubbish.
Given that he was brought here as a squad player it seemed an unlikely ploy by Martin. However, as none of the West Ham fans I spoke to were qualified Premiership Managers, their opinions must have been wrong. Or just lucky.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Dave on May 30, 2010, 08:03:34 PM
Quote from: "John M"
Quote from: "hilts_coolerking"
Quote from: "John M"
Better than the Hare? Well yes, of course they are. Proof that we could have got better to be a reserve striker for the 11th placed PL side? Not for me!
Are you saying John that you believe there is no-one we could have signed instead of Harewood who would have returned better figures than those paulie quoted earlier, i.e. 3 years, started 1 league game, 5 league goals. Not to mention the costs involved.
I know you like to stick up for Martin but it's stretching credulity to breaking point to suggest we couldn't possibly have done better than that.
I'm saying that of those strikers available at the time I don't think anyone better would have come to sit on our bench
Why did we have to sign someone to sit on our bench?
Why not sign someone who would be able to push Carew to the bench?
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Concrete John on May 30, 2010, 08:42:42 PM
Quote from: "Dave"
Why did we have to sign someone to sit on our bench?
Why not sign someone who would be able to push Carew to the bench?
If you think that Gabby and Carew are a starting partnership for a top 6 club now, who could we have got?
I think we were lucky to get Carew in when we did and have Gabby emerging. The strikeforce was the first part of his top 6 side Martin put together and now the first part he needs to rebuild to get u to be a top 4 side!
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Villa'Zawg on May 30, 2010, 09:39:25 PM
Quote from: "pauliewalnuts"
Quote from: "Villadawg"
Quote from: "Mark Fletcher"
Quote from: "Risso"
Quote from: "Villadawg"
I'm not interested in your semantic, nitpicking bullshit.
You do your Tonto act to Risso's Lone Ranger on thread after thread, with the same tired old O'Neill bashing.
And no, I don't think I will take you at your word just because you've decided to have a hissy fit.
Sorry, I must have missed the part where I insulted you.
Sorry Villadawg, you're getting a ted sensitive. Check the facts, only 1.3599228% of Risso's posts have involved any agression towards you. Paulie's is even lower at 1.0000373%
Yeah, you’re right. I have had time to reflect on the facts that my original accusation of O’Neill bashing was without foundation and fully warranted the entirely reasonable “pathetic post…bullshit…acting so pompously” response from Paulie.
I can now see that my over the top response of “semantic nitpicking bullshit….hissy fit” and reference to Risso and Paulie as an O’Neill bashing double act was entirely without foundation or justification.
What I don't get is why you refuse to accept that I'm judging the Harewood signing the way I see it? I'm not demanding you agree with me, I'm suggesting (seemingly pointlessly) that you at least give me the respect to accept I actually believe what I'm saying.
I can point out loads of instances where he's handled situations very well - Barry, for example, and situations - such as Downing - where I think people are quick to judge. If I had some kind of agenda, I wouldn't even give him that praise.
Also, it's not "semantics". It is me disagreeing with you and pointing out where I think you're being unfair.
My post does seem rather rude and abrupt now that I read it back, I had thought at the time it was in keeping with the tone of your previous 3:17 pm post, which wasn't the most respectful response ever was it? I didn't expect to upset/annoy you as much as I did. Sorry for that.
I think I was just a bit peeved that my killer Heskey statistic was lost in all the blather ;-)
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: Dave on May 30, 2010, 10:10:23 PM
Quote from: "John M"
Quote from: "Dave"
Why did we have to sign someone to sit on our bench?
Why not sign someone who would be able to push Carew to the bench?
If you think that Gabby and Carew are a starting partnership for a top 6 club now, who could we have got?
I think we were lucky to get Carew in when we did and have Gabby emerging. The strikeforce was the first part of his top 6 side Martin put together and now the first part he needs to rebuild to get u to be a top 4 side!
Blackburn (who finished two points ahead of us) signed Santa Cruz eleven days after we signed Harewood for £500,00 less. A cheap, obtainable striker who would have offered genuine competition.
Middesbrough who finished four points behind signed Tuncay on a free transfer.
Kenwyne Jones went to newly promoted Sunderland for a couple of million more than Harewood cost.
I'd say that any of those would have happily joined us and would have provided more.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: cheltenhamlion on June 02, 2010, 02:04:40 PM
I really can't understand why there is any kind of argument that Harewood was anything other than poor business for the reasons noted by Paulie and Dave.
Let's hope this summer we can find a more inspiring striker to sign.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: ktvillan on June 02, 2010, 04:53:10 PM
I remember the close season we signed Marlon (and then Knight) as the time I started to realise MON was not the dream ticket we'd all hoped he'd be. I tried to be fair and said let's give him a chance, but deep down I was bitterly disappointed as everyone knew Harewood was shite. And so it proved.
There's no way to justify it, it was a monumental cock-up in both a football and financial sense, and most people knew it would be. Yes all managers make mistakes, but this thread is specifically about Harewood, who happens to have been signed by our manager.
I don't see why stating these bald facts should be interpreted as a witch hunt against MON, but some people seem to suffer paranoia by proxy and feel the need to justify even the most blatant of bad decisions, when it comes to anything that doesn't show O'Neill in the very best of lights.
Just admit it guys, O'Neill screwed up big time on this one - that's it, purge yourselves, unclench those buttocks and feel the catharsis....
And good luck to Marlon wherever he ends up.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: pedro25 on June 02, 2010, 05:01:54 PM
1 start in 3 yrs, dreadful business, Maloney for £1 mill and Sutton for free played far more.
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: john e on June 02, 2010, 08:18:34 PM
and in tomorrows 'lets rewrite history show' we will tel you how -
Nigel Callaghan was really an out and out success
Stan Collymore was worth every penny
and Billy McNeill, was the greatest Villa manager of the last 30 years
Title: Marlon in the Champions League
Post by: pongoshat on June 05, 2010, 12:00:04 AM
We were aiming for top 4, Mart was pretty gung-ho about it. Not one signing he's made has indicated that. Not surprising when he's limited to the Prem.