Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Villa Memories => Topic started by: AlexAlexCropley on April 29, 2010, 07:26:58 PM
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(http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy191/villan2010/2a9vd5i.jpg)
What the?
And why? Anybody fill me in?
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Did you ask permisson before posting that? :-)
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I find the quotation marks especially disturbing.
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There is another thread on this somewhere.
Edit:
Apologies. It was in the GM section.
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I find the quotation marks especially disturbing.
That's exactly what I was about to say.
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Nobody knows who he was, how long he was here or where he went to. Judging by the kit it's early fifties so while it's not the nicest photo ever it's no real cause for concern.
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Hasn't this been done before?
Different, slightly backward times.
By all accounts, it wasn't a regular feature so even back then they probably thought it went beyond the pale and it died a death pretty soon after.
Almost as bad as our nearest and dearest.
Didn't they have a Gollywog (their choice of words) with a switchblade?
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Is that Danny Blanchflower the second player coming out? If so,its between 1951 and 1954.
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That photo is in the Villa Park 100 years book as well.
The good old days when players would get the tram to the match with the fans, smoke woodbines at half time and and we'd have a black mascot called Darkie
The age of innocence, eh
Are they golliwog pictures on his top hat?
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I remember this from the Simon Inglis book.
Very different times! Very un-pc.
I do like the way so many in the crowd are wearing suits though. Imagine wearing a suit to a game these days?
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Are they golliwog pictures on his top hat?
Presumably he liked Robertson's marmalade.
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have you noticed there is only one women in the crowd,or is it a tranny,and every one is just standing there no one is cheering as they run out.
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have you noticed there is only one women in the crowd,or is it a tranny,and every one is just standing there no one is cheering as they run out.
The women is a life size inflatable of Grace Kelly some of the young pups used to take to the ground.
And the reason that no-one is cheering is that when they took photos in them days they had to ask everyone to be still for two minutes.
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The reaction of the crowd makes me wonder if that was the first (and maybe last?) time Darkie made an appearance.
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Look the at the name on it, 'RAGS MAHONE'. He's the Nose that started the anti Lee Bowyer petition at the Sty a few years ago, if my memory serves me right. I think he had to go into hiding after he received death threats from the knuckledraggers.
He's a Villa hater of the highest order, by the way. No doubt he added this picture to his anti Villa collection. I'm surprised he hasn't passed it on to the Sunday Mercury yet.
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I feel I have to point out that a sticking a top hat on a black bloke, writing darkie on his back and calling him your mascot is an exploitative and grossly offensive. It is not 'un-pc'.
I understand that society has changed so much that stuff like this seems funny but the term political correctness is a bit of a bugbear of mine as the only people who seem to use it our daily mail types whinging about 'political correctness gone mad'.
Rant over.
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I feel I have to point out that a sticking a top hat on a black bloke, writing darkie on his back and calling him your mascot is an exploitative and grossly offensive. It is not 'un-pc'.
I could be wrong here ( I havent got the Inglis book next to me) but wasn't Darkie very much a self-appointed mascot?
It's not like we dragged the nearest black bloke off the street, nailed a top hat to him and made him perform at Villa Park every week.
Anyway, I'm more concerned about whether the correct term should be "un-pc", "non-pc" or "politically incorrect"............
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i assumed he was a white bloke blacked up.
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I feel I have to point out that a sticking a top hat on a black bloke, writing darkie on his back and calling him your mascot is an exploitative and grossly offensive.
I think it's pretty patronising to assume that 'Darkie' had no mind of his own.
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I feel I have to point out that a sticking a top hat on a black bloke, writing darkie on his back and calling him your mascot is an exploitative and grossly offensive.
I think it's pretty patronising to assume that 'Darkie' had no mind of his own.
And I'm sure he had loads of career options...
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Has anyone got any idea who the 1st & 3rd players are?
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I feel I have to point out that a sticking a top hat on a black bloke, writing darkie on his back and calling him your mascot is an exploitative and grossly offensive. It is not 'un-pc'.
I understand that society has changed so much that stuff like this seems funny but the term political correctness is a bit of a bugbear of mine as the only people who seem to use it our daily mail types whinging about 'political correctness gone mad'.
Rant over.
You are absolutely right,I used the stupid term "un-pc" without realising what tosh it must have sounded.Hope you like the new title.
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One or two observations aside of the mascot.
If you look round,theres about 4 or 5 women in total,still a pretty low proportion.I would be looking for my late mom there but i know for a fact,she stood in the witton lane terracing opposite at that time.
The long shorts are obvious,but also look at those big thick knitted woolen socks,must have been great in the rain and mud.
And finally look at that crappy old metal bucket,i bet that was the trainers and the `magic sponge` was in there.Thats all they needed then,there were no substitutes and if you broke your leg and it was falling off,then the trainer might come on with the `magic sponge` and put it back on for you,if you were lucky!and after the game you got five bob for playing and an extra shilling if you won and caught the No.28 bus home with all the fans,still in your dirty long shorts and big woolen socks.and if you didnt bring it back into training on a monday morning clean as a whistle,the manager would beat you up to within an inch of your life.And you tell that to todays modern players,and they just dont believe you!!
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Has anyone got any idea who the 1st & 3rd players are?
Ive checked playing record and some photos.
1st player:I believe this is Dickie Dorsett.Played September1946-May 1953.He is carrying the ball so is presumably captain.Was Dorsett captain at this time?
2nd player:I think everybody agrees this is Danny Blanchflower.Played March 1951- October 1954.
3rd player:This is the toughest.I believe it is Colin Gibson(no not that colin gibson!)Colin H Gibson.Played February 1949-January 1956. However another possibility is Frank Moss Jnr.Played May 1938-Feb 1955.
Assuming I am correct on Dorsett and Blanchflower,this game is now tied down to a period between March 1951 and May 1953.
PS.Blanchflower looks like the pretty boy,probably best he went off to a bunch of soft southerners like spurs to make his name.I like the look of Dorsett though,definetely the player you want with you and not against you when the real tackles were flying in.My villa history book describes him as"a tenacious tackler from wing-half and left-back".We know what they mean by "tenacious"...get in there!But credit to Gibson/Moss whichever one it is as they run out.They seem to be thinking"the first opponent i see,im going to kick the living shit out of for the villa cause"
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Part of that picture is in Blanchflower's book. The part without 'Darkie', that is.
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Heres some stuff on Dickie Dorsett.
Dorsett developed a reputation for having a short temper. He was once sent off for punching a defender. He later recalled: "He kicked me in the back as I was shielding the ball... I told him precisely what I thought. He retorted by spitting at me, so I smacked him one."
Dorsett was transferred to Aston Villa for a fee of £3,000 in September 1946. While at Wolves he had scored 32 goals in 46 games. Dorsett scored 13 goals in his first season at his new club. However, the following season he was moved to right-half. In his book, Who's Who of Aston Villa (2004), Tony Matthews argues that "Dorsett was as tough as they come, a player who never shirked a tackle, was totally committed and as rugged and as strong as an elephant!"
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Aston_Villa_captains
The above link says Dorsett was captain 1949-1951 and that Blachflower was captain 1951-1955 with Johnny Dixon thereafter.Obviously the info is based on Blanchflower being appointed captain for the season but he left in October 1954.
To me its a reasonable assumption that Blanchflower took the captaincy at the start of the 1951-52 season.This now ties the picture down to the end of season 1950-51 with Dorsett still captain.
If this is the case,there are just 4 league games at home in which dorsett was captain,and blanchflower,moss or gibson all played in.27/3/51 wolves,31/3/51 sheff wed,14/4/51 portsmouth,5/5/51 stoke.
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I read the above in a Columbo voice!
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I read the above in a Columbo voice!
Hahahaha I see where your coming from! Im the villa detective in a dirty raincoat then.thanks you cheered me up ive been a bit down since the whistle blew,
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Aston_Villa_captains
The above link says Dorsett was captain 1949-1951 and that Blachflower was captain 1951-1955 with Johnny Dixon thereafter.Obviously the info is based on Blanchflower being appointed captain for the season but he left in October 1954.
To me its a reasonable assumption that Blanchflower took the captaincy at the start of the 1951-52 season.This now ties the picture down to the end of season 1950-51 with Dorsett still captain.
If this is the case,there are just 4 league games at home in which dorsett was captain,and blanchflower,moss or gibson all played in.27/3/51 wolves,31/3/51 sheff wed,14/4/51 portsmouth,5/5/51 stoke.
The lack of overcoats in the crowd would indicate that it was either at the start or the end of the season, so these four games are corroborated. The crowd looks a big one, which would discount Stoke (24,033) and probably Sheffield Wednesday (29,321). Wolves took place on Easter Tuesday, with an attendance of 48,057, and Portsmouth 14th April, (39,258). The Bank Holiday mood for Wolves might have been the reason why Darkie made an appearance. All we need to do now is find out what the weather was like in Aston on 27th March and 14th April 1951.
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All we need to do now is find out what the weather was like in Aston on 27th March and 14th April 1951.
Ernest Bevin died on this day.
I realise this is of no help.