Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: russon on May 26, 2025, 08:16:32 AM
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A good season when all said and done (6th, CL qtrs, FA Cup semi) but when we have a stinker it’s of veritable egg & baked bean madras proportions.
My vote is Man Utd at OT, bed soilage of the highest order.
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This will cheer everyone up!
Palace semi for me. It was our year, until it wasn't.
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There’s no question. The game yesterday was an abomination from start to finish. It had everything you don’t want to see in (st Andrew’s aside) the closest venue to Mordor. Literally everything went wrong.
The team played like strangers, the tactics were too passive, the referee made a devastating mistake that var couldn’t overturn, our supposed ‘big game’ goalie went mental and we had to endure Man Utd (16th placed in the fucking league) take the piss (CL yeravinalaff), from THEM after THAT season). And that fucking apology at the end from their joke of a manager.
I’d say that was up there with the worst games I can remember watching as a villa fan.
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Yesterday
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There’s no question. The game yesterday was an abomination from start to finish. It had everything you don’t want to see in (st Andrew’s aside) the closest venue to Mordor. Literally everything went wrong.
The team played like strangers, the tactics were too passive, the referee made a devastating mistake that var couldn’t overturn, our supposed ‘big game’ goalie went mental and we had to endure Man Utd (16th placed in the fucking league) take the piss (CL yeravinalaff), from THEM after THAT season). And that fucking apology at the end from their joke of a manager.
I’d say that was up there with the worst games I can remember watching as a villa fan.
Agree. At least Palace are a semi decent side , ManUre are a rabble who ran rings round us .
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The most is not important, it’s the frequency and a lot of it being down to selection and tactics/ strategy.
Then an unwillingness to change it when it is not working.
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The most is not important, it’s the frequency and a lot of it being down to selection and tactics/ strategy.
Then an unwillingness to change it when it is not working.
It's just hard to believe he didn't make at least two subs at half time. Our season was on the line
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The most is not important, it’s the frequency and a lot of it being down to selection and tactics/ strategy.
Then an unwillingness to change it when it is not working.
It's just hard to believe he didn't make at least two subs at half time. Our season was on the line
Yes, Maatsen was all over the place which meant SJM was charging around trying to cover, Rogers was leaving Cash exposed on the other wing.
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The most is not important, it’s the frequency and a lot of it being down to selection and tactics/ strategy.
Then an unwillingness to change it when it is not working.
It's just hard to believe he didn't make at least two subs at half time. Our season was on the line
Yes, Maatsen was all over the place which meant SJM was charging around trying to cover, Rogers was leaving Cash exposed on the other wing.
And Mings wasn't on the pitch.
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The most is not important, it’s the frequency and a lot of it being down to selection and tactics/ strategy.
Then an unwillingness to change it when it is not working.
It's just hard to believe he didn't make at least two subs at half time. Our season was on the line
Yes, Maatsen was all over the place which meant SJM was charging around trying to cover, Rogers was leaving Cash exposed on the other wing.
Maatsen doesn't know his position properly.
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The most is not important, it’s the frequency and a lot of it being down to selection and tactics/ strategy.
Then an unwillingness to change it when it is not working.
It's just hard to believe he didn't make at least two subs at half time. Our season was on the line
Yes, Maatsen was all over the place which meant SJM was charging around trying to cover, Rogers was leaving Cash exposed on the other wing.
Maatsen doesn't know his position properly.
Which is concerning.
I think he is ok when not asked to defend.
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Which is a pretty critical part of being a full back unfortunately. He's great when you are pushing the opposition back but terrible when we don't have the ball. An impact player from the bench until he's learnt his positionings and stopped getting caught ball watching and having players ghost off him.
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The Palace semi was an abysmal performance. Yesterdays ran it close but if we had a competent ref we might well have got something out of the game. Nothing could have saved us against Palace though. We were that bad.
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Palace are a half decent team in good form. ManUre had only beaten the bottom 3 at home since December and have been shit this season and off the back of a demoralising Uefa Cup defeat. We made them look incredible. They totally dominated us from start to finish. Yesterday was the worst performance from us since the dark days of Gerrard.
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That was probably Harry Mguires most comfortable game in 5 years
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In context and future implications, yesterday is by far the worst.
I said a few weeks ago, the last two seasons everything has gone for us to get into europe, yesterday it didn't and we didn’t get the rub of the green.
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The surrender vs Palace in an FA cup semi-final!
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Palace semi final .... the trophy was ors for the taking.
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What would you rather eat in a sandwich.
Dog shit or cat shit
Palace and united. Equally bad. Equally as painful and equally heart wrenching.
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What would you rather eat in a sandwich.
Dog shit or cat shit
Palace and united. Equally bad. Equally as painful and equally heart wrenching.
Agreed
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It’s the worst game plan, tactics, selection or effort since Emery has been with us. His fuck up as much as the players.
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While Palace can be compared as equally as bad the difference is that they’re a very good side. ManU were there for the taking because they’ve not been this poor for 20 odd years and they’d lost a final earlier in the week. But we still managed to make them look decent.
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The most is not important, it’s the frequency and a lot of it being down to selection and tactics/ strategy.
Then an unwillingness to change it when it is not working.
It's just hard to believe he didn't make at least two subs at half time. Our season was on the line
Yes, Maatsen was all over the place which meant SJM was charging around trying to cover, Rogers was leaving Cash exposed on the other wing.
I didn't think Maatsen was noticeably bad in the first half, just poor. As you say Rogers was delinquent really in not helping Cash out, Mount was causing problems in a constant 2 on 1 on that side. At least McGinn was covering Maatsen, too much probably. Surprised with Rogers as he worked hard in a similar role v Bournemouth but he didn't try a leg for some reason in that first half, spooked maybe. Emery had options, swap McGinn and Rogers was obvious after about 15 mins. As utterly awful as we were in the first half and despite the red card, we were somehow still in the game at half time. I said it on match thread that I thought Mings and Tielemans had to come in for Torres and Onana. They were no brainer subs.
Maatsen had the nightmare of all nightmares in that second half. Emery should have recognised that very early on. Aside from the spectacular mistakes, he had at least one if not two of those gutless headers in our box just back out to the D for Fernandes or one of them to have a crack at. His head was gone. Digne brought calm when he came on at Arsenal in a similar situation. Mings and Tielemans, we just needed calmness then. The situation was salvable. Three very experienced players on our bench and yet he goes back out with same 10!
Maatsen yesterday eclipsed Konsa at Ipswich as the worst individual performance of the season for me. His form had been improving lately and I was all for showing faith in him. But that was badly misplaced.
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That was probably Harry Mguires most comfortable game in 5 years
Watkins made it easy for him with a truly horrendous performance, his movement, touch, hold up play, pressing were all utter garbage.
We were struggling to play through their press and needed our striker to bail us out and he failed miserably.
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That was probably Harry Mguires most comfortable game in 5 years
Watkins made it easy for him with a truly horrendous performance, his movement, touch, hold up play, pressing were all utter garbage.
We were struggling to play through their press and needed our striker to bail us out and he failed miserably.
Bit harsh singling out Ollie, none of them played well at all and one got himself needlessly sent off.
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Yesterday for me (although Palace and Monaco run it close seconds).
It worrying that we keep setting ourselves up the same way in these games and expect a different result. It's shite and ends up in a shite loss, the same will happen next year if we keep doing it.
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Palace was abysmal.
(Unai’s subs against PSG were abysmal too) but the match was still great.
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1. Palace (Wembley)
2. ManYoo (Away)
3. Palace (Away)
4. Monaco (Away)
5. Spurs (Away)
All away from home, all against teams who totally destroyed us with a mid-high press, totally stifled Tielemans and broke on us in transition.
Definitely something to work on next year.
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The most is not important, it’s the frequency and a lot of it being down to selection and tactics/ strategy.
Then an unwillingness to change it when it is not working.
It's just hard to believe he didn't make at least two subs at half time. Our season was on the line
Yet we were an unbelievable decision to stop us going 1-0 up with 10 men.
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Objectively, Palace. The draw had opened up for us and the Cup is something that still means a lot to those of us of a certain age. However, the outcome is tempered by the fact that perhaps Palace's name was indeed on the trophy and I don't begrudge a so-called lesser club's fans having a once-in-a-lifetime experience.
Yesterday will take a lot of getting over. Other results aligned and the implications of not making the Champions League may well see us dropping down the pecking order next season and beyond. Our record against Manchester Utd has been done to death, but let's imagine a roll reversal. Last game of the season, we've had an appalling nine months, we've just lost the one game that would give the shit-show some lustre and the team we're facing at Villa Park needs a needs to win to be in contention of finishing top five. You just know that we'd be a goal or three down at half-time and end up doing an embarrassing lap of appreciation to an empty ground having been well-and-truly mullered. That's really how poor yesterday was.
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Objectively, Palace. The draw had opened up for us and the Cup is something that still means a lot to those of us of a certain age. However, the outcome is tempered by the fact that perhaps Palace's name was indeed on the trophy and I don't begrudge a so-called lesser club's fans having a once-in-a-lifetime experience.
Yesterday will take a lot of getting over. Other results aligned and the implications of not making the Champions League may well see us dropping down the pecking order next season and beyond. Our record against Manchester Utd has been done to death, but let's imagine a roll reversal. Last game of the season, we've had an appalling nine months, we've just lost the one game that would give the shit-show some lustre and the team we're facing at Villa Park needs a needs to win to be in contention of finishing top five. You just know that we'd be a goal or three down at half-time and end up doing an embarrassing lap of appreciation to an empty ground having been well-and-truly mullered. That's really how poor yesterday was.
Why? I don’t understand what point you’re trying to make. Imagine a hypothetical scenario that is worse than the bad thing that actually happened.
Chelsea and Man City. Two teams that have been in the champions league multiple times over the past twenty years held their nerve and got the wins they needed.
The three teams who all have nosebleeds from being so high in the table all froze on the day and lost. There’s not much more to it.
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From memory, we've had a few stinkers this season. I'd say Palace [Away], Palace [Wembley], Bruges [Away-league phase], Monaco [Away] and yesterday, Man Utd [Away].
Sadly, there were a couple of must wins in there which inevitably meant our most promising season in recent memory fizzled out to disappointment in the end. No trophies, no Champions League qualification..... All whilst serial losers Palace, Spurs and Newcastle lifted trophies for the first time in decades! And to rub further salt in the wound, the latter two leapfrog us into next season's Champions League!
We've had some unbelievable experiences this season, but we really need to start turning this promise into actual success. Unai has turned Villa around, but there has to come a point where if we fail to win anything again next season from such promising positions, 'when' do we start asking questions?
Wembley and yesterday's no shows have scarred me, and I just can't understand how the manager/players just haven't turned up when it has mattered most this season.
So far, it feels like same old Villa but just in a shiny, more expensive outfit. Glad it's over and we have a couple of months where we can forget about football.
Have a good summer all. UTV
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Wolves away, a first half so bad we made 4 subs at HT. The 2nd half wasn't much better.
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Wolves away, a first half so bad we made 4 subs at HT. The 2nd half wasn't much better.
Good shout. Blotted that one from my mind..... also a special shoutout for the gobshite home fans in the upper tier spitting over us as we left the terrace for the concourse. Wankers.
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Palace at Wembley.
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Palace at Wembley tied with yesterday's debacle.
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The FA Cup semi was an utterly bizarre performance in the most winnable cup for years.
Losing at Newton Heath is bog standard Villa
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The FA Cup semi was an utterly bizarre performance in the most winnable cup for years.
Losing at Newton Heath is bog standard Villa
It is but losing to this embarrassment of a United team fresh off a humiliation in Spain only last Thursday is a new low. Not losing either, we were hammered everywhere but the scoreline.
We didn't show up at Wembley either but I thought we were done tactically too.
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The most is not important, it’s the frequency and a lot of it being down to selection and tactics/ strategy.
Then an unwillingness to change it when it is not working.
It's just hard to believe he didn't make at least two subs at half time. Our season was on the line
Yes, Maatsen was all over the place which meant SJM was charging around trying to cover, Rogers was leaving Cash exposed on the other wing.
I didn't think Maatsen was noticeably bad in the first half, just poor. As you say Rogers was delinquent really in not helping Cash out, Mount was causing problems in a constant 2 on 1 on that side. At least McGinn was covering Maatsen, too much probably. Surprised with Rogers as he worked hard in a similar role v Bournemouth but he didn't try a leg for some reason in that first half, spooked maybe. Emery had options, swap McGinn and Rogers was obvious after about 15 mins. As utterly awful as we were in the first half and despite the red card, we were somehow still in the game at half time. I said it on match thread that I thought Mings and Tielemans had to come in for Torres and Onana. They were no brainer subs.
Maatsen had the nightmare of all nightmares in that second half. Emery should have recognised that very early on. Aside from the spectacular mistakes, he had at least one if not two of those gutless headers in our box just back out to the D for Fernandes or one of them to have a crack at. His head was gone. Digne brought calm when he came on at Arsenal in a similar situation. Mings and Tielemans, we just needed calmness then. The situation was salvable. Three very experienced players on our bench and yet he goes back out with same 10!
Maatsen yesterday eclipsed Konsa at Ipswich as the worst individual performance of the season for me. His form had been improving lately and I was all for showing faith in him. But that was badly misplaced.
Good job Mastsen’s relying on Emery’s faith in him rather than yours then.
Seems daft to single a player out, they were all as bad yesterday. Tielemans did ok when he came on, thats it.
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I'm going to go with yesterday, they say with the cold light of morning you take a more balanced view, its worse to day than yesterday, I just don't get it, I don't get the the players the team the tactics I don't even get the manager in the approach to the game, nothing makes sense.
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Palace at Wembley. So bad Emery apologised to the fans after. He knew he messed up.
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I'm going to go with yesterday, they say with the cold light of morning you take a more balanced view, its worse to day than yesterday, I just don't get it, I don't get the the players the team the tactics I don't even get the manager in the approach to the game, nothing makes sense.
I'm the same, irrationally stressed over it still! The refs mistake, and the furore over it, nothing more than a fig leaf over that shit show yesterday. At least with Palace there was a league game coming shortly after it to make amends. Less caffeine required!
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While Palace can be compared as equally as bad the difference is that they’re a very good side. ManU were there for the taking because they’ve not been this poor for 20 odd years and they’d lost a final earlier in the week. But we still managed to make them look decent.
That's the difference, for me. Everyone could see Palace were playing well for weeks, whereas this Yanited team are shite with almost zero morale. It's yesterday for me. That could be recency bias but I don't think it is.
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I think yesterday’s was worse for all the reasons stated, though Im getting over yesterday already, whereas I still think I fully haven’t with the Palace game.
Whatever happened yesterday, we have still achieved something in qualification for the Europa. Not getting to the cup final has really bothered me. Its an age thing really. If it takes as long to get to the cup final has it has so far since 2015, Ill be in my 60s if/when we eventually get back there.
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Palace. I could take missing out on Champions League if we'd had the Cup. As it is, I feel like we had three competitions in our hands and ended up with (comparatively) nothing.
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Why do we play this mid to low block formation, particularly away? We should be more brave and attack from the off. You can't believe that was the same team that thrashed Newcastle 4-1 (it could've been 7-1) and beat PSG 3-2 with such exciting football. Baffled......anyway, yesterday against United was the worst.
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It is mad how different we play away (and at Wembley) compared to home. I know part of it will be how the opposition set up but it must be a deliberate ploy and I don't like it. We got the win against Bournemouth but that was pretty dreadful too really.
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Just for clarification, I'm not saying Bournemouth was one of our worst performances of the season, just another recent away game.
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It is mad how different we play away (and at Wembley) compared to home. I know part of it will be how the opposition set up but it must be a deliberate ploy and I don't like it. We got the win against Bournemouth but that was pretty dreadful too really.
Sometimes it works and when it doe it looks genius. The first hour at Brighton was pretty horrific then we clicked in the last half hour and it was a superb away win. We rode our luck for 60 mins though as they cut through our defence quite easily .
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Yesterday, as the Palace SF should have been the best lesson ever how not to play a 'cup final' type game of such huge proportions.
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Both the Semi and Sunday were huge games, and we didn't show up. We were a shambles in both games. Was it purely the occasion, or is Uni unable to set up against a team playing 3-5-2? It would be interesting to see his history against this set-up. Is it just with Villa or all his past clubs? He is such an amazing manager, it seems odd and an easy fix, but he repeats the same mistakes.
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I can understand it early to mid-season, trying to reserve energy, reduce potential injuries.... But at the business end of the season, just fucking go for it!
We have forward thinking players with pace to burn - Bloody use it to our advantage! I think back to that high line we played when Emery first came in - We're worlds away from that now.
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How about losing 4-1 away to the worst Spurs team.
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How about losing 4-1 away to the worst Spurs team.
We played pretty well that day until a disastrous defensive reshuffle when Matty Cash went off! Ipswich away was diabolical.
Still 66 points suggests we had far more good days than bad.
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I can understand it early to mid-season, trying to reserve energy, reduce potential injuries.... But at the business end of the season, just fucking go for it!
We have forward thinking players with pace to burn - Bloody use it to our advantage! I think back to that high line we played when Emery first came in - We're worlds away from that now.
Our tactics of sitting back with a low block away from VP works when the opposition press isn't all that, and our players are on it. When the opposition press is good (amazingly it was on Sunday) and our lot leave their first touch in Birmingham, looking at you Watkins, Roger & McGinn in particular it very quickly turns into a shit show.
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Crystal Palace in the Semi Final for me followed by Man Utd at Old Trafford.
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Crystal Palace in the Semi Final for me followed by Man Utd at Old Trafford.
And Wolves away (as is the norm) in bronze medal contention.
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Although we focus on the bad as humans, 66 points is our second highest in the PL for a 38 game season. More than any of the 6th places finishes under MON, DOL, Gregory, and more than the 4th and 5th place finishes under Brian.
And at a time when the deck is stacked far far more heavily against us than it was in the past due to PSR/FFP.
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Crystal Palace in the Semi Final for me followed by Man Utd at Old Trafford.
Yep, you're right Darren. They were the two games to make or break our season and we didn't turn up for either.
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United. I expected Palace, but after that I didn't see us being so limp against United.
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100% Utd, the ramifications of blowing this game are much wider than the Palace SF . I think we also played worse on Sunday than v Palace which took some doing .
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Yes Palace are at least half decent but Manure ??