Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Smirker on November 27, 2024, 09:56:01 PM
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That ref is a horrible piece of work and I hope he gets diarrhoea for Christmas.
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Corrupt ******.
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I hate to sound petty.. but that match needs investigating. A) It's Juventus and B) it was right from the jump.
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What a stupid VAR decision
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Hasn't every ref and VAR ref we've had in this competition been shite? Starting from Ollie's "handball" vs Young Boys
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Kamara, Digne, Emi - all excellent.
The rest, par at best.
The ref - awful.
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Erm, why wasn’t the ref asked to go to the monitor?
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Super soft.
But a much more solid display, needed that. Kamara superb, Bailey more like it.
Something to build from.
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Referee played a blinder for Juve but we did OK after a sticky few games. Deserved to nick it.
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Referees are crap over here but they're no better from other countries. Europe just breeds fanny wanks.
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Fucking wank decision, ref was a fucking gimp
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Sorry. That is corrupt. I don’t say that easily. It’s not ‘soft’. It’s cheating. FFS say it as it fucking is.
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The ref was overruled then?
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That was fucking theft.
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anyone got a link to the 'goal' please?
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That's a shocking decision from var. The ref was a gigantic tool. It was like watching us play one of the red shite clubs. You just know they are going to look long and hard to find a way of disallowing that goal. Thoughts and prayers go to the keeper after the life threatening injuries Carlos inflicted on him.
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Haven't seen it yet, but the unaminous opinion on the Rangers forum is that we were f*cking robbed by a bullshit decision.
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Disgusted.
Im so fucked off they robbed up. Corrupt wankers
Apologise all i just cant believe theg stole that from us . I bet if juve scored that the goal would have remained
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Sorry. That is corrupt. I don’t say that easily. It’s not ‘soft’. It’s cheating. FFS say it as it fucking is.
Of course it is. With so much money involved, do you really think UEFA and their sponsors want to lose a club like Juventus?
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Bent as fuck. The ref’s face when he’s making sweet bubbles with Motta at the end 🤮
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Still don’t understand how var can overrule unless it’s handball
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I haven’t been so angry since that cup final vs Manchester United. Robbed, totally. ****** ref was at it all game but that decision at the end…
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What was Rogers pass completion? Looked like he was kicking a bag of dildos all night. Then shushing after he thought he'd scored...don't lap up all the plaudits then sulk when you get a little criticism kiddo.
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Cant believe how calm ollie was. He is a better person than me as i would have wanted to rip the refs head off
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Morgan looked really flat tonight, he looks knackered.
But really impressed by Kamara, and pleasingly Ollie and Bailey looked sharper.
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It was soft but if it had been against us I’d have been screaming for a foul. I thought we looked so much more solid than in recent weeks. Kamara is the difference. I’m proud of that performance.
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We don’t complain about referees anymore that’s probably part of the issue.
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Robbed a winner but an improved performance.
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Still don’t understand how var can overrule unless it’s handball
Money?
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I'm guessing the ref gave the foul and VAR agreed, not clear at all watching on tv.
Good performance defensively. Kamara was excellent, makes a huge difference.
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Juventus paid the Terry’s chocolate orange.
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Is the European VAR the same as here? As in they only intervene in cases of a clear and obvious error? Because the challenge was right in front of the ref and he gave the goal straight away.
Unless it's a bit like the Premier League previously when some decisions get left knowing that VAR will correct it for them? Because honestly, that is a shockingly shit decision. If that's a foul, then 50/50 headers will become a thing of the past. If Carlos can't jump like that, then there is no possible way to challenge a goalkeeper.
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Win in Leipzig and I think we'll finish top 8.
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I'm guessing the ref gave the foul and VAR agreed, not clear at all watching on tv.
Good performance defensively. Kamara was excellent, makes a huge difference.
It looked to me like he gave the goal? Edit - I mean he pointed directly at the centre circle, which I guess COULD be him signalling a free kick in that direction?
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We are unbeaten in two. Small green shoots.
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Haven't seen it yet, but the unaminous opinion on the Rangers forum is that we were f*cking robbed by a bullshit decision.
Seen it in slow motion straight away and thought that's a goal normal contact between Rogers and keeper (edited)it was Carlos
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Cheating bastard ref. That’s a goal all day long
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We are unbeaten in two. Small green shoots.
If we are in three I’ll be happy, tough game this weekend.
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Cheating referee bribing ******. Even SHA agrees Villa were cheated.
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Getting fed up of watching us slow down when on the counter attack and passing back to keeper when on the edge of their box. Same shit. Surely that can't be a tactical choice given how well it worked for us last season?
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What is the matter with some of you? It is NEVER a foul. Not in a million years .
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Pretty ordinary performance against a mediocre team. Understandable considering recent form that it was safety first.
Thought Kamara was very good.
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Hutton trying not to say "we" but keeps dropping it in. Loves the Villa.
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Getting fed up of watching us slow down when on the counter attack and passing back to keeper when on the edge of their box. Same shit. Surely that can't be a tactical choice given how well it worked for us last season?
I’m sure it’s linked to a lack of confidence.
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It’s the right way at the moment, we need to get a solid foundation again and then build the attacking sharpness in.
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They need to seriously investigate this ref. Not just for the pathetic decision to disallow the goal (no var on screen either ) but all the dodgy yellows he was giving us yet their players were constantly fouling us and rarly given yellows.
Disgusting referring
Kamara and the defence were superb. Emi motm for me he was excellent
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https://x.com/StanCollymore/status/1861893167387168813?t=QeFLlBg_A2a3bohhkmVjww&s=08
The "foul".
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And now we’re into ‘oh great save from Emi Martinez’ which changes the narrative. Yes, great save. But… FUCK OFF. The story here is the absurd decision (after a load of shit decisions) at the end.
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Watching it, I thought the ref had signalled for a free-kick not a goal, and then the VAR check was whether to overrule disallowing the goal.
One of the reasons why the signal for a goal being so similar as the signal for a free kick to the defending team is so stupid.
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The officials ruined our game, I don't see how such experienced refs can be so grossly negligent, which only leaves one other option - corruption.
Rogers was very poor and needs some time on the bench, I was shocked when Kamara was subbed as I thought he was our motm, though Emi wasn't far behind. I wanted us to play a bit more on the front-foot but understand the conservative approach given our recent run of results.
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The standard of refereeing in the CL has been atrocious. That's a goal. Emery needs to start being more vocal about the impartiality of some of these clowns. Three Villa bookings in the first 40 minutes and then that absolutely scandalous decision tells me that a certain bank account may have recently been improved greatly. Juventus have always been a fucking law unto themselves.
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Okay. And explains the half hearted celebrations after the ‘goal’.
Guess VAR wouldn’t have overruled if the ref had given it.
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Cheating referee bribing ******. Even SHA agrees Villa were cheated.
Who cares what they think? Why are you looking at that shite when we have a Champions league football match?
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The officials ruined our game, I don't see how such experienced refs can be so grossly negligent, which only leaves one other option - corruption.
Rogers was very poor and needs some time on the bench, I was shocked when Kamara was subbed as I thought he was our motm, though Emi wasn't far behind. I wanted us to play a bit more on the front-foot but understand the conservative approach given our recent run of results.
We need to be careful not to run Kamara into the ground - and Rogers actually.
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Carlos and Cash, no brain farts so good stuff. Wasn't amazing but certainly not terrible and 10 points. Not much point in repeating what's been said about the ref and the goal, certain clubs in Europe would have been given it, the rest of us can do one.
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Thought the days of we don't like English teams include Scottish clubs as well by foreign referees were long and gone, but it seems like another Eurovision song contest
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That crap decision could cost us top 8 place.
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Sitting in thr car stuck in traffic.
Better perf overall, Rogers got better as game went on, but gives the ball away too much. Kamara was superb. Bailey is dross, I would sell him Jan if we had a replacement lined up.
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That crap decision could cost us top 8 place.
that and disrespecting Brugge by fielding a shite team.
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"No cheating bastards will I talk to,’" said Brian Clough at the Stadio Comunale di Torino in 1973 after Juventus had defeated Derby County 3-1 in the European Cup.
51 years of fuckeries and still they get away with it.
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That crap decision could cost us top 8 place.
that and disrespecting Brugge by fielding a shite team.
Speaking of Brugge, they're living a charmed life in this competition. I've just seen the Celtic OG. Fucking hell.
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Sitting in thr car stuck in traffic.
Better perf overall, Rogers got better as game went on, but gives the ball away too much. Kamara was superb. Bailey is dross, I would sell him Jan if we had a replacement lined up.
I think rogers was generally awful ronight. He lost the ball so many times tonight. It was like a rinse and repeat. Think its abit of fatigue
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Sitting in thr car stuck in traffic.
Better perf overall, Rogers got better as game went on, but gives the ball away too much. Kamara was superb. Bailey is dross, I would sell him Jan if we had a replacement lined up.
I think rogers was generally awful ronight. He lost the ball so many times tonight. It was like a rinse and repeat. Think its abit of fatigue
he defo needs time on the bench. Playing with 2 wide players who are completely ineffective the last half a dozen games or so..
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With Rogers I think it's definitely tiredness, he's just lost that bit of sharpness to his play. His touch is off because he's stretching a little, and his reactions are a bit slow.
I think he'll be fine with a bit of a rest.
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Thought we looked solid, midfield looks infinitely better for kamara being there, mcginn was industrious and ollie did well but was increasingly isolated.
Problem is for me that our supporting attackers are currently in shocking form, Rogers and bailey had two horrific performances and killed every attack we had with poor passes, poor decisions or total indecision. If we had effective wide ans attacking options off the bench tonight we could have easily won that
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We won that Nil Nil.
A better performance I thought. Kamara motm, Bailey much improved, Ollie was excellent and Emi did Emi things with a world class save.
And the "referee"?...Scandalous.
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With Rogers I think it's definitely tiredness, he's just lost that bit of sharpness to his play. His touch is off because he's stretching a little, and his reactions are a bit slow.
I think he'll be fine with a bit of a rest.
Yep you can just see it. He needs a bit of a break, it’s not a surprise the level he’s operating at and the volume of games is a steep increase.
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I thought Cash played well. 100% pass completion, 3 tackles, 4 dribbles, all action.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/live/clygx9q6qz3t?post=asset%3A8600de22-5a77-4dac-ade1-98d4fd67029f#post
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I'm guessing the ref gave the foul, not the goal otherwise it would have had to be a monitor job to over-rule it. But for VAR to spend so long looking at it, I'm guessing they were trying to tell him that the contact was minimal and maybe he should review, and he decided no, the contact was there.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/live/c3e8kww9300t
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The Spanish wanker's got form:
La Liga March last season
The RFEF announced on Thursday the refereeing appointments for La Liga matchday 29. Gil Manzano remains suspended after the controversy that happened at Mestalla in the draw between Valencia and Real Madrid.
The refereeing appointments for La Liga matchday 29 are now official. Gil Manzano remains suspended after the controversy that marred the end of the draw between Valencia and Real Madrid.
Jude Bellingham scored the 2-3 in stoppage time, but the referee blew the whistle in the moments before the goal. The match ended 2-2 despite the huge anger of the 'Merengue' team and the red card that the English star saw.
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I thought Cash played well. 100% pass completion, 3 tackles, 4 dribbles, all action.
Yep and I think it helped Bailey too, who did much more and created a very good chance.
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Watching Rogers come off the pitch and he seemed to be coughing a lot into his shirt. Maybe he is coming down with the flu or something. Definitely looked off it tonight.
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Anyone got a spare cabbage i can throw at that ref tonight?
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Bit ruff on Bailey that - he got down the line a couple of times and put that great chance on the plate for SJM.
Rogers was poor though, looks like he’s temporarily hit a ceiling.
Emi was superb, as was Kamara and, as a result, Tielemans put in a much improved performance.
Whisper it, Carlos played pretty well. Digne was strong at the back and going forward second half.
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I think we can be quite proud of that performance, and the fact that we are upset about not beating Juventus in the Champions League shows how far we have come under Emery.
Better team, made most of the best chances and could have scored 2-3 with a bit more luck. That goal should have stood as well.
Martinez and Kamara played really well. Defense all played well. Tielemans was hampered by the early card, but had some good moments as did McGinn. Rogers and Bailey keep getting pelters, but both got involved and had chances today.
That team looks a lot better with Kamara back available, think the results will start to pick up now. Looking forwards to seeing him partnered with Onana and Tielemans which will be a very solid midfield and see the defence protected better.
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https://x.com/johntownley11/status/1861900601069895754?t=BJsRdx6aijBBjqMNaSZnkA&s=08
Unai criticises the ref - something he very rarely does.
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https://x.com/johntownley11/status/1861900601069895754?t=BJsRdx6aijBBjqMNaSZnkA&s=08
Unai criticises the ref - something he very rarely does.
Sounds very unai he didnt really criticise on that quote just that he felt it was soft
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Unai Emery has beaten Juventus twice before in the UEFA Champions League, winning with Sevilla in 2015 and Villarreal in 2022.
No manager has ever beaten Juventus with three different teams in the competition.
Aston Villa hold my beer.
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Atrocious refereeing with a hint of dodginess thrown in. He could and should have booked two of their players for dissent in the first half (he finally got round to booking one on 44 mins) and the disallowed goal was just laughable. It looks worse the more times you see it.
Improved performance overall though I thought.
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The ref gave the goal didn't he? It was VAR's decision to disallow it.
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Atrocious refereeing with a hint of dodginess thrown in. He could and should have booked two of their players for dissent in the first half (he finally got round to booking one on 44 mins) and the disallowed goal was just laughable. It looks worse the more times you see it.
Improved performance overall though I thought.
Dont forget when the juve player blatently kicked ball away and no booking too
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One of the most biased refereeing performances I’ve seen for a very long time.
He didn’t even try and hide it with his pathetic yellow cards.
As for us, Bailey and Roger’s not making the most of the ball I think cost us but overall a decent performance. 10 points from 5 is a very good return but it should’ve been 12 if it wasn’t for the soft foul at the end.
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The ref gave the goal didn't he? It was VAR's decision to disallow it.
If the referee gave it then the most that VAR could do would be to call the referee over to the monitor, VAR can't just disallow the goal of its own volition.
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One of the most biased refereeing performances I’ve seen for a very long time.
He didn’t even try and hide it with his pathetic yellow cards.
As for us, Bailey and Roger’s not making the most of the ball I think cost us but overall a decent performance. 10 points from 5 is a very good return but it should’ve been 12 if it wasn’t for the soft foul at the end.
+1 if Mings hadn't picked the ball up.
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The ref gave the goal didn't he? It was VAR's decision to disallow it.
No-one is fully sure on the ref as indicating a goal / freekick to the defence are similar points to the other end of the ground. Watching the "goal" again, he did look like he was ready to blow BEFORE Rogers hit it though. And I'm pretty sure even in Europe, the ref is sent to the monitor for any overriding of a pitch decision unless it is one of the absolutes like offside or handball.
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And now we’re into ‘oh great save from Emi Martinez’ which changes the narrative. Yes, great save. But… FUCK OFF. The story here is the absurd decision (after a load of shit decisions) at the end.
That's the beauty of goal line technology, 95% of the ball had crossed the line but Emi stopped it being 100%, therefore great save, no goal.
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Stopped at Tyburn House on way home and only reading this now do I actually understand what happened!
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What was Rogers pass completion?
There is no significant data available to computate an answer.
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I’m still trying to understand what Carlos did wrong. He went up much straighter than the keeper, and has every right to go up for the ball. He never even took his sight off of the ball. When the keeper gets his hands on it, he’s misjudged it and his body is shaped like a banana. He fumbles it and goes down in embarrassing Italian fashion.
This game makes no sense sometimes
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What was Rogers pass completion?
There is no significant data available to computate an answer.
He successfully passed the ball into the net at the end.....otherwise zero.
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One thing - aside from the massive Juve cheating - obv.
We were clearly more defensively structured. Prob to the detriment of the game overall.
NSWE obv have a lot of time for Unai. To the point of investing in his family pet project Real Union and acquiescing to having his son on the books as 4th/5th choice goalie at one point.
But if we've been griping about our defensive frailties recently I'm sure they have as well. I wonder if part of tonight was about keeping them onside. They have shown they don't hang around if they feel things are on the slide.
Just thoughts really. I haven't done the research, don't have qualifications in sports science or cod psychology and I'm not passing any of this off as fact.
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Watching Rogers come off the pitch and he seemed to be coughing a lot into his shirt. Maybe he is coming down with the flu or something. Definitely looked off it tonight.
He was coughing a lot after/during the Palace match too
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Rogers looked every inch the £8m Championship hopeful tonight, couldn't decide if was tiredness or an allergic reaction to moving slightly to the left.
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Game went pretty much as I expected, they are tough nuts to crack and were lively on the break, credit to our defence for keeping them out .
Kamara was superb , he makes a huge difference .
We had the chances and didn't concert , Watkins unlucky , Digne free kick not quite accurate enough and someone should have pushed Bailey away from the free kick on the edge 2nd half , that was awful .
Rogers had another mare of a game , we miss Zaniolo in there and Ramsey .
Cash is a cul de sac of sideways / backwards .
We are 2 or 3 players away from being very good.
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Zaniolo? Hardly.
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Much as I really, really want to put it all down to classic Agnelli shenanigans, I think it was just one of those games where the officials exploded histrionically at the slightest suggestion of anything, including a few things in our favour and, of course, the goal that wasn't.
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Rogers looked every inch the £8m Championship hopeful tonight, couldn't decide if was tiredness or an allergic reaction to moving slightly to the left.
Yea I’d like to see him benched/rested for a couple of games. Would be helpful if Ramsey is back, but if not I’d give Barkley & Kamara a go in the middle with Tielemans further forward.
Tonight I thought was a fair result, neither team created much, defences were good. Couldnt tell at the game, but soft as it was those sort of decisions are made all the time re the goal.
10 points from 15 isnt bad at all. I think we need two draws or one win from the last two away games, to take some of the tension out of the Celtic game.
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As soon as the ref administered treatment to the first Juve player that went down I knew he was a wrong 'un.
I thought Kamara was outstanding, Rogers needs a rest, Carlos had his one good game in eight which doesn't bode well for the weekend, Bailey was slightly better and Ollie faded after a good first half.
I suspect the Manager is happy with the last two results and while we're a bit flat, long term they might not look too bad after all.
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General confusion in the ground after the 'goal'. Watching MOTD you can see he gave a foul, even though that was very questionable. Martinez's save looked good in real.time, but it was great watching it back.
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What was Rogers pass completion?
There is no significant data available to computate an answer.
Have you loaded all the data centres into the bios registry?
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I think the ref simply decided that a draw was a fair result and made it so. It's frustrating and it's wrong, but that's the way of these things. Leipzig is a must win game now and their form is similar to ours. Onwards and upwards.
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Zaniolo? Hardly.
Rogers keeps giving the ball away , cannot do that at this level.
Zaniolo would draw fouls and get us up the pitch better , we are missing that , yes Rogers started well but has now been rumbled and it's not working.
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Zaniolo? Hardly.
Rogers keeps giving the ball away , cannot do that at this level.
Zaniolo would draw fouls and get us up the pitch better , we are missing that , yes Rogers started well but has now been rumbled and it's not working.
It's never form, it's always being found out.
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Rogers looked every inch the £8m Championship hopeful tonight, couldn't decide if was tiredness or an allergic reaction to moving slightly to the left.
I can empathise, I suffer from the same thing.
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We were the better team overall. Against Juventus. Imagine even thinking that 3 years ago, 13 years ago or the last time we had a good team under O'Neill or a better one under Little or even more so under BFR.
We are here and we belong at this level. 10 pts from 5 games and still in with a chance of Top 8.
As for match Gatti was excellent held them together. Thuram is like Jordi Cruyff - couldn't lace his Old Man's Boots. Conceição certainly can his old man's mind.
Kamara was brilliant 2nd half and Barkley made 3 key interceptions on edge of box. Thought Bailey backed up Cash and SJM a lot. Proper shift.
Actually Carlos and Cash had good games - they come in for a lot of stick.
Morgan is one of my favourites but he looks like he could do with a rest for a couple of games.
Just left the complimentary flag at the foot of my 5 year old's bed. He can watch the highlights tomorrow.
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There is no doubt in my mind that the ref gave that goal. He blew the whistle once the ball had gone in and pointed towards the centre circle. There was then zero indication inside the ground that VAR had overturned it. Blatant cheating.
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Other than one cross i have no idea how anyone is defending Bailey, he was awful tonight and doesn't have a defence like Rogers as in not having played this level before or playing in a new position, he was just shit and so so many moves broke down when the ball got to him. And taking the fre kick off digne after he'd hit the bar as well, shite mentality. I loved him last season but wtf is he right now?
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Agree about Cash and Carlos being good, with the exception of the moment when Carlos did the most 'oh my god what the fuck am I doing here' centre-back-in-attack moment I've ever seen.
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Other than one cross i have no idea how anyone is defending Bailey, he was awful tonight and doesn't have a defence like Rogers as in not having played this level before or playing in a new position, he was just shit and so so many moves broke down when the ball got to him. And taking the fre kick off digne after he'd hit the bar as well, shite mentality. I loved him last season but wtf is he right now?
To be fair I think he has reverted to pre Emery to an extent this season but tonight I thought he did well.
Last season Diaby had the free role which McGinn had tonight and Bailey was less of a forward threat. Cash often gets caught out of position or dives in and I thought Bailey backed him up and covered for McGinn. I think that was his job. It did negate his attacking threat not just due to him as overall we were slower in transition.
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There is no doubt in my mind that the ref gave that goal. He blew the whistle once the ball had gone in and pointed towards the centre circle. There was then zero indication inside the ground that VAR had overturned it. Blatant cheating.
Although a freekick given against us involves blowing the whistle after the goal happens (for VAR) and pointing to the other end of the pitch which also happens to be in line with the centre circle. But watch the split second after the challenge is made, the ref is already lifting his hand to his mouth before the ball goes in. And then doesn't move towards the centre circle which most refs do on goal signals.
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Agree about Cash and Carlos being good, with the exception of the moment when Carlos did the most 'oh my god what the fuck am I doing here' centre-back-in-attack moment I've ever seen.
Ha. Good point.
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There are too many to send individually from mobile so thanks to everyone who sorted me out via DM when I asked for a link.
🟣🔵
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Other than one cross i have no idea how anyone is defending Bailey, he was awful tonight and doesn't have a defence like Rogers as in not having played this level before or playing in a new position, he was just shit and so so many moves broke down when the ball got to him. And taking the fre kick off digne after he'd hit the bar as well, shite mentality. I loved him last season but wtf is he right now?
Naw
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Surprised people on here being so generous. I thought we were beyond wank today with the exception of Emi and Kamara. No threat. Meandering around. Bailey was rubbish again. Rogers absolutely terrible. Tielemans bang average. Disgusting performance and Emery does not look like he has any answers. Looks like a mid-table kind of year if things keep going the way they have been.
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Surprised people on here being so generous. I thought we were beyond wank today with the exception of Emi and Kamara. No threat. Meandering around. Bailey was rubbish again. Rogers absolutely terrible. Tielemans bang average. Disgusting performance and Emery does not look like he has any answers. Looks like a mid-table kind of year if things keep going the way they have been.
Jesus Ive read some nonsense on here but this just about reaches a new level.
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Surprised people on here being so generous. I thought we were beyond wank today with the exception of Emi and Kamara. No threat. Meandering around. Bailey was rubbish again. Rogers absolutely terrible. Tielemans bang average. Disgusting performance and Emery does not look like he has any answers. Looks like a mid-table kind of year if things keep going the way they have been.
Disgusting? Really?
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You can maybe get away with a mercurial forward getting it bang on one game in five or one game in eight. If the rest of the shop is right.
Can't really tolerate that from a 31 year old CB - which prob sounds harsh tonight as Carlos was solid- even allowing for the Forest Gump clueless surge second half.
But that solidity has been a rareness since he joined us.
He wasn't the issue tonight but he is an issue in general. Partic with the fee we paid and the wages he's on.
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I'm guessing the ref gave the foul and VAR agreed, not clear at all watching on tv.
Good performance defensively. Kamara was excellent, makes a huge difference.
When the ball hit the net I was worried about whether he'd given a foul I looked immediately at the ref to see him pointing at the centre circle so went wild only then to see him move his arm to indicate a free kick.
It's cheating pure and simple Juventus have form for this and as far as I'm concerned they are up to their old tricks again.
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It was always going to be a game of few chances and we needed to be clinical and we weren't . The McGinn miss was the worst for me , he should be breaking the back of the net with that not side footing it as Juve will always slide back for those .
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I've never been so certain a game was going to finish 0-0, even before it had kicked off. They had no strikers, and we were obviously going to keep it as tight as possible to try to get some confidence back. It was a fairly poor spectacle, but a point's a point I suppose, even though it looks like top 8 is probably going to be beyond us. No wins in 7 now, which really isn't very good at all. Still, hopefully Kamara's return can reignite the season. Something needs to.
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On the way home, better performance from us but we still look toothless up front. The Ref, what a beauty. During his pre match routine he started jogging with with his 2 assistants, looked like Kenneth Williams in a nightie being chased by an Alsation..and some of his efforts at measuring 10 yards for free kicks was pathetic...I won't go into some of his decisions...spoiled the game totally
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Better performance overall, but you can still see they go for the ‘safe’ pass back instead of the risky forward pass at times.
Kamara my MotM, and our 2nd half dominance ended when both he and Ollie went off. Duran can have no complaints about being sub after his invisible cameo either.
Can’t believe Rogers lasted the 90. There is a top player in there, but he just looks totally broken at present, and has looked that way for weeks - Abysmal tonight unfortunately.
Special mention to our right hand side- Cash, Bailey and Carlos much better.
Disappointing result, but slowly improving.
Onto Chelsea. UTV
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Surprised people on here being so generous. I thought we were beyond wank today with the exception of Emi and Kamara. No threat. Meandering around. Bailey was rubbish again. Rogers absolutely terrible. Tielemans bang average. Disgusting performance and Emery does not look like he has any answers. Looks like a mid-table kind of year if things keep going the way they have been.
Has BC Villain hacked your account?
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Emery's subs of late are baffling and has cost us.
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Better performance overall, but you can still see they go for the ‘safe’ pass back instead of the risky forward pass at times.
Agree with that, Conceicao was always looking to go forward and beat Digne with pace and trickery, whereas too many of our attacks break down because somebody always reverts to a safe pass backwards.
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Better performance overall, but you can still see they go for the ‘safe’ pass back instead of the risky forward pass at times.
Yet every other time we did that we gave away possession anywhere with the added Jive bonus of being on the edge of our box with little effort needed by them.
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Better performance overall, but you can still see they go for the ‘safe’ pass back instead of the risky forward pass at times.
Agree with that, Conceicao was always looking to go forward and beat Digne with pace and trickery, whereas too many of our attacks break down because somebody always reverts to a safe pass backwards.
Normally it's cul de sac Cash
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Surprised people on here being so generous. I thought we were beyond wank today with the exception of Emi and Kamara. No threat. Meandering around. Bailey was rubbish again. Rogers absolutely terrible. Tielemans bang average. Disgusting performance and Emery does not look like he has any answers. Looks like a mid-table kind of year if things keep going the way they have been.
The Thanksgiving Turkey is extra big this year.
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Emery's subs of late are baffling and has cost us.
What subs do you think should have been made?
Kamara is coming back from injury and can't play 90 mins yet, he had to come off. Buendia has been so powderpuff that bringing Rogers off would have been a bad call despite his performance- obviously almost scored the winner. Can't see what other changes were available?
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Surprised people on here being so generous. I thought we were beyond wank today with the exception of Emi and Kamara. No threat. Meandering around. Bailey was rubbish again. Rogers absolutely terrible. Tielemans bang average. Disgusting performance and Emery does not look like he has any answers. Looks like a mid-table kind of year if things keep going the way they have been.
Twattish comment if I may say so.
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Emery's subs of late are baffling and has cost us.
What subs do you think should have been made?
Kamara is coming back from injury and can't play 90 mins yet, he had to come off. Buendia has been so powderpuff that bringing Rogers off would have been a bad call despite his performance- obviously almost scored the winner. Can't see what other changes were available?
Bournemouth he got it wrong and it cost us
The subs v Palace were wrong and deflated us
Tonight Rogers should have gone on HT , 60 mins latest .
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Emery's subs of late are baffling and has cost us.
I tend to agree
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Surprised people on here being so generous. I thought we were beyond wank today with the exception of Emi and Kamara. No threat. Meandering around. Bailey was rubbish again. Rogers absolutely terrible. Tielemans bang average. Disgusting performance and Emery does not look like he has any answers. Looks like a mid-table kind of year if things keep going the way they have been.
Twattish comment if I may say so.
Semper ficklelis.
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Having been at the game, I seemingly enjoyed it more than a lot of those who watched on TV, which maybe is due to the tension that was in the air at the ground, I dunno? But I thought we did well. Kamara was ace, automatic first choice when fit. The defence was good and I really appreciated Cash having a good game. I’m not his biggest fan but if he could stay fit that really helps with our squad strength and options. Four clean sheets that could have been five out of five were it not for that freak occurrence in Brugge.
Going forward we would have fared much better had lots of attacks not broken down at the feet of Morgz, but Ollie looked sharp first half and Bailey is improving gradually.
All that left me feeling optimistic as I left the ground.
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Emery's subs of late are baffling and has cost us.
What subs do you think should have been made?
Kamara is coming back from injury and can't play 90 mins yet, he had to come off. Buendia has been so powderpuff that bringing Rogers off would have been a bad call despite his performance- obviously almost scored the winner. Can't see what other changes were available?
Bournemouth he got it wrong and it cost us
The subs v Palace were wrong and deflated us
Tonight Rogers should have gone on HT , 60 mins latest .
Rogers for who? It's really easy to say someone should come off without having any fucking clue about who's coming on for them though isn't it
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Emery's subs of late are baffling and has cost us.
What subs do you think should have been made?
Kamara is coming back from injury and can't play 90 mins yet, he had to come off. Buendia has been so powderpuff that bringing Rogers off would have been a bad call despite his performance- obviously almost scored the winner. Can't see what other changes were available?
Bournemouth he got it wrong and it cost us
The subs v Palace were wrong and deflated us
Tonight Rogers should have gone on HT , 60 mins latest .
Rogers for who? It's really easy to say someone should come off without having any fucking clue about who's coming on for them though isn't it
Thought Buendia was the obvious change with McGinn going to the left. Rogers needs a breather, had a shocker tonight. Cautious game, McGinn missed a great chance and Emi made a miracle save. Kamara very strong on his return and Cash was very solid I thought. Little else to report on.
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I thought we benefitted tonight or last night from Rogers not being central and not the fulcrum of attack. There was definitely a solidness to our shape and we were quite content for the Ramsey stamper to whip balls into...nobody on the odd ocassion they went forward and ceased boring us to tears.
Kamara grew into the game, really impressively second half. I liked McGinn at 10, he should have scored too, but I'd still like to see Tielemans a bit further forward. The booking cost him an ability to influence the game more.
Referee was appalling. Wouldn't be surprised if the biggest cheats in football hadn't paid him off. It was definitely a goal. Absolutely robbed.
Still, Cash and Bailey looking improved second half. I really like Cash and his tenacity. First half I felt he checked back too frequently, but had more purpose second half.
Rogers is out of sorts at present. A marauding JJ would have been welcome. As would a driving Onana. A clean sheet, definitely not the Juventus people remember. Leipzig all but out and crying out for a shovelling to end their misery in a couple of weeks.
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What was Rogers pass completion? Looked like he was kicking a bag of dildos all night. Then shushing after he thought he'd scored...don't lap up all the plaudits then sulk when you get a little criticism kiddo.
I'm afraid that Morgan Rogers is quickly turning into Jude Bellingham Mk II. His England call up came at exactly the wrong time. He would have been better off spending time at Bodymoor Heath learning how to pass a ball.
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Nevermind. Not worth it.
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Surprised people on here being so generous. I thought we were beyond wank today with the exception of Emi and Kamara. No threat. Meandering around. Bailey was rubbish again. Rogers absolutely terrible. Tielemans bang average. Disgusting performance and Emery does not look like he has any answers. Looks like a mid-table kind of year if things keep going the way they have been.
Disgusting? Really?
Yep
Even if we finish mid-table, that would be 'disgusting'?
We were playing Juventus in the Champion's League.
You know this is Aston Villa, not Arsenal? Your ludicrous sense of entitlement is misplaced.
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Surprised people on here being so generous. I thought we were beyond wank today with the exception of Emi and Kamara. No threat. Meandering around. Bailey was rubbish again. Rogers absolutely terrible. Tielemans bang average. Disgusting performance and Emery does not look like he has any answers. Looks like a mid-table kind of year if things keep going the way they have been.
Twattish comment if I may say so.
Don’t know about twattish, but incredibly glass half empty. We are struggling and need to be more resilient, we showed that tonight. The attacking play absolutely has to get sharper, but it’s not like flicking a switch when you’re going through a tough patch. If guy can’t see that’s a step in the right direction, but obviously with a lot more to do well it’s quite a naive view.
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Oh and the earlier comment about Rogers being “found out” is just daft. He’s obviously tired (possibly unwell)/out of form. He’s not doing the things he was doing well earlier in the season, he’s shown he can do them.
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I thought we did ok, both sides struggled to get any momentum in their play largely due to the hapless twat in Orange who killed the game as a spectacle with his ridiculously early card happy spree and endless whistle blowing for bugger all. The fact that the largest cheer of the game was for their 1st booking tells you everything.
As for the 'goal', he gave the foul immediately and although soft they get given these days, my only surprise being that Rogers didn't sky it into the Holte.
But a point against Juve isn't the worst outcome and both teams will be relatively content. God that ref was awful though.
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Martinez 8, Cash 8, Carlos 7, Torres 6, Digne 6, Kamara 8, Tielemans 6, Bailey 7, Rogers 4, McGinn 6, Watkins 6.
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Zaniolo? Hardly.
Rogers keeps giving the ball away , cannot do that at this level.
Zaniolo would draw fouls and get us up the pitch better , we are missing that , yes Rogers started well but has now been rumbled and it's not working.
Can't believe you've doubled down on Zaniolo. Rogers hasn't been rumbled in any shape or form.
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For a 0-0 I thought it was an excellent game of football. I actually enjoyed the game.
We looked far more balanced across team than previously, and Kamara was briilliant.
I must say, in the 45+ years I have been going to Villa Park, I have never, ever known a time where I have stood there for so long knowing if we had scored or not.
The referee was atrocious, from start to finish, and was relishing looking like tango man and being the centre of attention.
Finally, the ‘Villa Villan’ thing at the start was inspired. Bravo, to whoever came up with that.
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An interesting game, not the most entertaining on a cold night. I thought we coped well with them and on balance should/could have won.
What did amuse me in the last minute was watching Tielemans standing over the ball looking back at the bench for permission to lump it into the box. Unai clearly hates this approach and the players know it. (Even in the last 10 seconds of a game)
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Martinez 8, Cash 8, Carlos 7, Torres 6, Digne 6, Kamara 8, Tielemans 6, Bailey 7, Rogers 4, McGinn 6, Watkins 6.
Lord help me I agree with Bronte's player ratings (though perhaps I'd give Cash a 7 - meaning I'm the misery-arse here!).
I don't know if I was 'disgusted' by that display exactly, but then I am moderately sane.
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i thought it was an excellent game - i still cannot believe how far this club has come in the 2 years under Unai, to be competing and being the better side against Juventus is unbelievable
Torres was sublime with his passing last night, but Kamara was MOTM
The ref was appalling.
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Having been at the game, I seemingly enjoyed it more than a lot of those who watched on TV, which maybe is due to the tension that was in the air at the ground, I dunno? But I thought we did well. Kamara was ace, automatic first choice when fit. The defence was good and I really appreciated Cash having a good game. I’m not his biggest fan but if he could stay fit that really helps with our squad strength and options. Four clean sheets that could have been five out of five were it not for that freak occurrence in Brugge.
Going forward we would have fared much better had lots of attacks not broken down at the feet of Morgz, but Ollie looked sharp first half and Bailey is improving gradually.
All that left me feeling optimistic as I left the ground.
Glad you enjoyed it, the atmosphere sounded amazing. I was at home on my sofa as per usual as it seems to be the case since I became a parent 20 years ago! These games just look and sound incredible even as armchair fan, so being there must be an incredible experience.
I must admit I enjoyed it too, I thought we were really competitive but we just lack that bit of magic or spark in the final third at the moment. I’m not sure if it’s confidence or just were a bit out of luck at the moment.
To think we’re competing at this level after only two years of Gerard going is incredible.
That save from Emi was outstanding and one of the best I’ve seen this season.
Special mentions too Kamara, McGinn and Cash who I thought were tremendous all night.
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Looking at the last few games, things aren't really going for us, those little through balls and clever passes are being cut out or not reaching their man through fortune and a lucky block, equally, loose balls always seem to drop to the opposition particularly in and around the area. But that's what happens when you're in a bad run, it affects confidence and you can see that in the players. We lack momentum, rhythm and pace.
It will come back though and not losing is ok when you're in the kind of form we are.
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Agreed Nev. in all the games, had we had a bit more fortune we’d be flying points wise. The game Sunday will be interesting.
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I was encouraged by Emery mixing up the system I must say. When I saw the system I thought 'ha, you stubborn fucker, hope you're right', and he was - but he'd changed it up substantially with McGinn central and Rogers left. Definitely beefed up in the centre with SJM and Kamara there.
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Little video of Declan Rice, whose always struck me as oddly sporting with his insistence of clapping the opposition win/lose/draw, accusing last nights referee of being so bad he's probably been paid, when he was at West Ham. So he's got form for being fucking abysmal.
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Kamara was excellent.
Martinez's save was outstanding.
Ref was terrible.
Rogers lacking but we should remember he was struggling to get in Boro XI last year.
Bailey a bit better.
Goal should have stood.
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Both our full backs were clearly under instruction not to get caught ahead of the ball last night. This gave us a strong defensive shape, admittedly against a weak Juve front line, but it makes things very difficult for the likes of Bailey who gets double marked easily. It's fine last night as we had to avoid another basketball type game with no control. But I do think we will have to get Maatsen's pace into the team sooner to stretch teams. Like Moreno used to.
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Martinez 8, Cash 8, Carlos 7, Torres 6, Digne 6, Kamara 8, Tielemans 6, Bailey 7, Rogers 4, McGinn 6, Watkins 6.
About right - think Kamara MOTM but best saw Bailey and Cash play for a while
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Rogers looked every inch the £8m Championship hopeful tonight, couldn't decide if was tiredness or an allergic reaction to moving slightly to the left.
I can empathise, I suffer from the same thing.
Ha!
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I thought it was an excellent performance and what was needed with the run we are on.
We looked like the defensively assured Villa again.
The ref was absolutely shocking and must be disappointed that he didn’t fully earn his Rolex, without him we probably win that game.
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The day after
Some thoughts
Emi brilliant some top saves last night. Juventus had a bigger injury crisis than us but still showed some real quality at times. Thought thuram and weah looked decent.
Thought the defence as a whole was very good. A lot more tight. Kamara a big reason for that as he wss excellent.
Duran to me his hot forms fizzled out abit (new contract curse grrrr) has struggled to make a impact since he has come on in recent games.
Rogers was bad. He might have scored but he was really bad last night. Looks like a but of fatigue. May benefit with a bit of a rest but who do we play there? Out of form buendia? If onana is back id be tempted to play youri there as kamaras back.
Enough has been said about that shit wanker ref. We all know we robbed bjt unfortunately if you put that aside we didnt do enough to win the game as has been said we played a lot of safe passes. I think if we can sneak a draw at least vs Leizpig then win one or two of the last two we might have a chance at top 8.
Play offs though there is a possibility we could play real madrid
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Juventus had a bigger injury crisis than us but still showed some real quality at times.
Not like someone to rubbish the Villa by stating the other side was more weak then us.
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Typical game against an Italian well organised team
I enjoyed it though but can see why others didn’t so much, the end of the day we’re playing the supposed cream of Europe here and we look like we belong
I thought we were the better side overall but it was tight
As others have said Referee was as bad as it gets
But it’s another one of those games where we would have probably lost if we hadn’t got the best goalkeeper in the world
He is our greatest asset and absolute legend already
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That Ref is all I will say.
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Their little right winger was good -wasn't he?
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Juve were tidy, I can't remember a stray pass. But they didn't really trouble Villa except when Emi was called into action. Villa on the other hand were sloppy with their passing which cost us chances but still had a few great opportunities to score. Tidy up the passing and we'll come good.
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It was a good performance overall & we should have nicked it. Maginn's chance after halftime was the one which should have been taken. Great to see Kamara back & in good form, we're going to need him.
Ref was dreadful, but aren't they all. As for the goal, very soft decision but I'd have been screaming it was blatant if it was against Martinez. Incredible save by Martinez.
Rogers needs to come out of the side for a few games. We need to move Buendia on & find a number 10 who can pass to a Villa player.
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Their little right winger was good -wasn't he?
Yes, their stand out player. Who are they?
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Typical game against an Italian well organised team
I enjoyed it though but can see why others didn’t so much, the end of the day we’re playing the supposed cream of Europe here and we look like we belong
I thought we were the better side overall but it was tight
As others have said Referee was as bad as it gets
But it’s another one of those games where we would have probably lost if we hadn’t got the best goalkeeper in the world
He is our greatest asset and absolute legend already
Correct. There's so many strengths to his game but the number of those 'how the fuck has he saved that? " ones from point blank range are ridiculous.
And not those kind where the ball smacks straight off the keeper where he's already standing and the commentary swoons of a' great save', his positioning and anticipation getting to finishes that have been placed where intended.
That alone would make him a standout keeper but then you see him commanding his box, his now excellent footwork (which he's kind of bolted on to his game seamlessly), one on one's, the penalties, the mind games etc.
There's not a single area of his game where I see another keeper that's better.
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Juventus had a bigger injury crisis than us but still showed some real quality at times.
Not like someone to rubbish the Villa by stating the other side was more weak then us.
As usual you dont read the post its 8.43am and you already at it
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Their little right winger was good -wasn't he?
Yes, their stand out player. Who are they?
Conceicao. He was superb.It may have felt like there was more than one of him at times but definitely just the one.
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Emi's save was amazing, but how does the smallest player on the pitch get a free header from a corner...
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Due to holiday and work it was my first premier European competition game since we last played these in the European cup. I loved it, proper cat and mouse game against a true continental giant, and we are disappointed not to win! Unai said enjoy it, and I certainly did!
I still can't fathom how Ginny didn't hit his shot hard enough to go in, and then ended up stopping it going out for a corner straight after. that was the chance for me. I knew he wasn't going to give the goal, right or wrong, just knew it as soon as you come together with a keeper in the air in Europe.
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In what we are told is the supreme competition in club football, why are the officials so consistently fucking useless? Naturally, most attention is focused on the disallowed goal but twice quick free kicks were prevented with the ball being booted 30/40 yards away on one occasion, a kick taken and blocked by an opponent standing a couple of yards away just waived away with a shrug.
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I knew he wasn't going to give the goal, right or wrong, just knew it as soon as you come together with a keeper in the air in Europe.
Yeah me too. The kids were jumping up and down and hugging each other, I didn’t move.
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Emi's save was amazing, but how does the smallest player on the pitch get a free header from a corner...
Yeah I said that at the time. It sailed through a crowd of players at head height and no one put anything on it. Emi must've been anticipating one of ours to head it away or one of theirs to head it goalwards. But instead it fell to the little guy at the back which makes his save even better. A quite remarkable save in my opinion.
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Their little right winger was good -wasn't he?
Yes, their stand out player. Who are they?
Conceicao. He was superb.It may have felt like there was more than one of him at times but definitely just the one.
He was brilliant last night. Best player on the pitch (*alongside Kamara).
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It was also my first game in a safe standing seat on the Holte (L3) and I loved that too!
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Their little right WHINGER was good -wasn't he?
Corrected
After an initial foray out and about he quickly popped back into Luca’s pocket.
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Their little right winger was good -wasn't he?
Yes, their stand out player. Who are they?
Conceicao. He was superb.It may have felt like there was more than one of him at times but definitely just the one.
He was brilliant last night. Best player on the pitch (*alongside Kamara).
€30m release clause apparently (he's on loan at Juve from Ajax), though Juve have first dibs on him. Would be an excellent squad addition next summer, and we can afford him, but might not be able to get him as the competition will be fierce.
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Their little right WHINGER was good -wasn't he?
Corrected
After an initial foray out and about he quickly popped back into Luca’s pocket.
I don't think Conceicao was ever in Dignes pocket. Whenever they attacked he was a massive threat. He skated past half our defence several times in the second half. He was a whinger I'll give you that but Italian teams always contest every refereeing decision as if their life depends on it. It's in their blood.
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Emi's save was amazing, but how does the smallest player on the pitch get a free header from a corner...
Because Rogers stood and watched the ball and had no idea he was 2 yards behind him
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In what we are told is the supreme competition in club football, why are the officials so consistently fucking useless? Naturally, most attention is focused on the disallowed goal but twice quick free kicks were prevented with the ball being booted 30/40 yards away on one occasion, a kick taken and blocked by an opponent standing a couple of yards away just waived away with a shrug.
That free kick block was ridiculous, it didn't just hit him he stuck his leg out, and they were kicking the ball away from throw ins and free kicks all night with impunity, safe in the knowledge they'd get no punishment for it.
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Emi's save was amazing, but how does the smallest player on the pitch get a free header from a corner...
Because Rogers stood and watched the ball and had no idea he was 2 yards behind him
Yep, Rogers seemed surprised it got to him and wasn't remotely ready for it, but at least he reacted first after the save.
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In what we are told is the supreme competition in club football, why are the officials so consistently fucking useless? Naturally, most attention is focused on the disallowed goal but twice quick free kicks were prevented with the ball being booted 30/40 yards away on one occasion, a kick taken and blocked by an opponent standing a couple of yards away just waived away with a shrug.
That free kick block was ridiculous, it didn't just hit him he stuck his leg out, and they were kicking the ball away from throw ins and free kicks all night with impunity, safe in the knowledge they'd get no punishment for it.
I have to say people moan about our referees but you don’t have to stray too far to find some absolute shockingly poor officials. He is probably the best his country has to offer. One of the few downsides of a European campaign
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Having been at the game, I seemingly enjoyed it more than a lot of those who watched on TV, which maybe is due to the tension that was in the air at the ground, I dunno? But I thought we did well. Kamara was ace, automatic first choice when fit. The defence was good and I really appreciated Cash having a good game. I’m not his biggest fan but if he could stay fit that really helps with our squad strength and options. Four clean sheets that could have been five out of five were it not for that freak occurrence in Brugge.
Going forward we would have fared much better had lots of attacks not broken down at the feet of Morgz, but Ollie looked sharp first half and Bailey is improving gradually.
All that left me feeling optimistic as I left the ground.
Very much this, we were well in the game, created the best chances, kept a clean sheet and looked well at home against a very good if slightly understrength Juventus team.
I hate using this expression but we’re going to give someone a twatting soon.
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I had a look at the ref blog (https://law5-theref.blogspot.com/2024/11/champions-league-202425-referee_25.html) this morning. They seemed surprised the ref had been given an Italian team again, but most of the discussions seemed to be on the Plp-RMA performance.
However they seem to think it was a good decision after the initial post about it.
Gozie Joe27 November 2024 at 22:59
Manzano was never going to give it against an Italian team, was he? But wouldn't he have if places were swapped? Same old story.
Mikael W27 November 2024 at 23:02
It’s a clear foul: Carlos plays the goalkeeper. I can’t comment on the rest of the performance though.
Chefren27 November 2024 at 23:09
Loooks indeed a clear foul on keeper. He would have done the same in the other penalty area, these are not difficult situations to read.
Reply
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Juve were tidy, I can't remember a stray pass. But they didn't really trouble Villa except when Emi was called into action. Villa on the other hand were sloppy with their passing which cost us chances but still had a few great opportunities to score. Tidy up the passing and we'll come good.
One thing that stood put watching them last night and other top teams, is the pace they have in their side. It just means they can break and cover the ground so quickly.
That top end speed is one thing we're missing a bit really.
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I hate using this expression but we’re going to give someone a twatting soon.
Aargh, my absolute least favouite expression ever, just ahead of "if we play like that we'll win more than we lose". It never, ever works out like that.
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I hate using this expression but we’re going to give someone a twatting soon.
Aargh, my absolute least favouite expression ever, just ahead of "if we play like that we'll win more than we lose". It never, ever works out like that.
Ha ha yep I hated having to use it but I’d actually take a comfortable 1-0 against Brentford as a sign we’re on the up again. Anything better than defeat at Chelsea will be good as well.
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Emi's save was amazing, but how does the smallest player on the pitch get a free header from a corner...
Rogers caught ball watching at back post I think.
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I hate using this expression but we’re going to give someone a twatting soon.
Aargh, my absolute least favouite expression ever, just ahead of "if we play like that we'll win more than we lose". It never, ever works out like that.
Ha ha yep I hated having to use it but I’d actually take a comfortable 1-0 against Brentford as a sign we’re on the up again. Anything better than defeat at Chelsea will be good as well.
I always think the opposite way that sword cuts is true enough. I struggle to recall times where we're absolutely shite and the opponent loses two of its best players in the game, gifts us incredibly silly goals with individual errors, misses a load and we spawn our way to a win. Happens to us plenty mind.
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In what we are told is the supreme competition in club football, why are the officials so consistently fucking useless? Naturally, most attention is focused on the disallowed goal but twice quick free kicks were prevented with the ball being booted 30/40 yards away on one occasion, a kick taken and blocked by an opponent standing a couple of yards away just waived away with a shrug.
That free kick block was ridiculous, it didn't just hit him he stuck his leg out, and they were kicking the ball away from throw ins and free kicks all night with impunity, safe in the knowledge they'd get no punishment for it.
Yes that was bloody annoying but we have to accept that they interpret the rules differently across the continent. Kicking the ball away here is an instant red. Elsewhere not so much. Any contact with the keeper while the ball is in flight is a foul but here it's hit and miss depending on who you're playing. It is what it is and we're just used to our refs and var cocking up different things to theirs. I was enraged by the officials last night but I'm trying to look at it calmly and objectively discussing it with fellow Villans this morning. Speaking of which kudos again to whoever came up with those displays being hoisted from the Holte End roof. They've been brilliant this season.
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Martinez 8, Cash 8, Carlos 7, Torres 6, Digne 6, Kamara 8, Tielemans 6, Bailey 7, Rogers 4, McGinn 6, Watkins 6.
Lord help me I agree with Bronte's player ratings (though perhaps I'd give Cash a 7 - meaning I'm the misery-arse here!).
I don't know if I was 'disgusted' by that display exactly, but then I am moderately sane.
Me too, I actually agree with the rating for Cash, who I thought had a great game, and I'd up Rogers to a 5 because he kept going and did put the ball in the net, as well as working back a lot to help Digne.
I thought we played well defensively and it was only really that 1 corner where they created a real chance. Going forward we're nearly good, we're the final pass or a better finish away from putting 4-5 past someone and getting back on track but in the meantime we're just butchering chances after lots of very good build-up work.
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Ha ha yep I hated having to use it but I’d actually take a comfortable 1-0 against Brentford as a sign we’re on the up again. Anything better than defeat at Chelsea will be good as well.
I don't think we're showing signs that we're going to batter anybody, but it was good to see Cash and Kamara back last night, so I'd happily swap the mythical and seen about as often as Brigadoon "imminent thrashing" for the ability to keep a clean sheet on a more regular basis. That's far more likely to see us get the season back on track.
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I hate using this expression but we’re going to give someone a twatting soon.
Aargh, my absolute least favouite expression ever, just ahead of "if we play like that we'll win more than we lose". It never, ever works out like that.
Ha ha yep I hated having to use it but I’d actually take a comfortable 1-0 against Brentford as a sign we’re on the up again. Anything better than defeat at Chelsea will be good as well.
Mind you, would be nice to do it at Chelsea. Remember the 7-1 and the 8-0 defeats during the dark days? It was like something from Ripping Yarns (one for the teenagers)!
The "foul" last night? Juventus: enough said!
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Having been at the game, I seemingly enjoyed it more than a lot of those who watched on TV, which maybe is due to the tension that was in the air at the ground, I dunno? But I thought we did well. Kamara was ace, automatic first choice when fit. The defence was good and I really appreciated Cash having a good game. I’m not his biggest fan but if he could stay fit that really helps with our squad strength and options. Four clean sheets that could have been five out of five were it not for that freak occurrence in Brugge.
Going forward we would have fared much better had lots of attacks not broken down at the feet of Morgz, but Ollie looked sharp first half and Bailey is improving gradually.
All that left me feeling optimistic as I left the ground.
Pretty much my feeling, Perce. The game had a '1 goal wins it' feel, 0-0 was probably the likely outcome.
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Juve can defend that’s for sure. They’re so well organised. I think it helped us greatly that their main striker wasn’t fit to play. Their No 7 was a handful all night. Overall, the point we gained is a good one, I’d have taken that at the start and I’d certainly take the same on Sunday V Chelsea.
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Both our full backs were clearly under instruction not to get caught ahead of the ball last night. This gave us a strong defensive shape, admittedly against a weak Juve front line, but it makes things very difficult for the likes of Bailey who gets double marked easily. It's fine last night as we had to avoid another basketball type game with no control. But I do think we will have to get Maatsen's pace into the team sooner to stretch teams. Like Moreno used to.
Yes, agree with this.
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Last season Douglas Luiz, Moussa Diaby and Leon Bailey combined for 34 goals in all competitions. Only the slightly wayward Bailey remains. Rogers started brightly but has regressed a little in recent weeks. The result is an ever-sharper reliance on Watkins: 29% of their xG last season, 35% this season.
Just a reminder of our challenges going into December, before the January window.
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I felt pretty relaxed during the match, I thought we were going to nick it and that we had at the death. From my position in Trinity Upper it wasn't immediately obvious there'd been contact with the keeper and I thought the free kick signal was the ref pointing to the centre spot. Loads around me were saying it must be a goal because the scoreboard said it was!
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On the tellybox after Rogers put it in, it stayed 0-0 on the screen for what seemed like ages, then changed to 1-0, showed a re-run of Rogers celebrating then went back to 0-0. It was all a bit odd.
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We should invest in some of those juve defenders. They look the real deal and can defend veey very well
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A really fascinating game and we matched them. Kamara was the key to the improvement and we looked a far better side with him in it.
Rogers is really struggling though and his repeated poor play is damaging a lot of good work. Maybe he does need a break.
These Champions League games have been special, there's no getting away from it.
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Bad as the non goal was, I felt McGinn should have buried his chance.Put your foot through it man.
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Bad as the non goal was, I felt McGinn should have buried his chance.Put your foot through it man.
yes , should never gave their defender a chance to block it . Smash it .
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Yeah don't side foot those , that was a really bad miss looking back .
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They came for a 0-0, we settled for a 0-0 and the ref ensured it was 0-0.
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On the tellybox after Rogers put it in, it stayed 0-0 on the screen for what seemed like ages, then changed to 1-0, showed a re-run of Rogers celebrating then went back to 0-0. It was all a bit odd.
Yeah I think there must've been a delay between the ref's earpiece and the mafia.
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The Independent wasn’t impressed. https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/aston-villa-juventus-champions-league-unai-emery-goal-b2654720.html
I don’t know where the author is coming from with his “dour 0-0 draw”. I thought it was an enjoyable game overall, plenty of tension and incidents as you’d expect at this level.
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Thought Juve were far better than some were suggesting pre-match , classic Italian european away performance and that superb save from Martinez denied them an archetypical smash and grab . We had the chances but just didn't convert, McGinn has to score there and Bailey taking that free kick off Digne was a joke
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I think it was the very definition of a dour 0-0 draw. There was some quality on display, but it wasn't an action packed end-to-end classic.
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Kamara MOTM. Emi, Cash, Digne, Watkins did well. McGinn, Torres, Tielemans, and Carlos did ok.
Bailey had moments where he looked better but still isn't carrying much of a threat, I thought their right winger looked quicker and more dangerous throughout. Rogers looks tired/ill to me, plus he is missing JJ.
Overall a point isn't a bad result but it does feel like another missed opportunity with the injuries they had.
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For his big chance I thought McGinn should of lifted and smashed it high. Juve only tested Martinez the one time when he made the (normal for him) outstanding save. We had a few big chances, Digne hit the bar, Watkins shot, think Cash had a shot aswell. The game at times was like a pre season friendly, croud was quite an d plenty of players putting their foot on the ball with no pressure on them.
I think slowly (like a battleship turning) Villa are coming out of the rut, and its no coincidence with Boba getting back up to speed.
Rogers very poor, many lazy flicks that didn't come off, the the shush celebration, looked sheepish when it was chalked off. I'd play Barkley in the 10 and give Rogers 20mins from the bench in upcoming games
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The Independent wasn’t impressed. https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/aston-villa-juventus-champions-league-unai-emery-goal-b2654720.html
I don’t know where the author is coming from with his “dour 0-0 draw”. I thought it was an enjoyable game overall, plenty of tension and incidents as you’d expect at this level.
That was not a dour game. The condescending comment's like "believe it or not villa and juve have previous history" are very uncalled for.That report smacks of a journo who follows one of the big boys and probably wanted the Liverpool v Madrid gig. He might be an Arsenal fan who is looking to prove his club correct in dismissing Emery when they did because little old Aston Villa have been making that decision look a bit rash and the fans who hounded him out a bunch of entitled pricks. He pretty much suggests that we are a busted flush and Emery is out of ideas. We are struggling to find last seasons form that's for sure but it's still in there somewhere and I truly believe Emery will sort this shit out. A crass piece of journalism at best. Spiteful at worst. Tosser.
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Perfectly acceptable result. Could have been a glorious end with a competent ref. Onwards and upwards!
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It does feel to me like we are now coming out of this slump , the return of Kamara is key and we need Onana back ASAP
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"Pete is a freelance sports journalist based in the north of England, predominantly covering Manchester United and other football clubs in the area..."
Well colour me surprised....
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And thinks Clarry Blue is Guy Fawkes! Twat!
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Rogers looks knackered!
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Bad as the non goal was, I felt McGinn should have buried his chance.Put your foot through it man.
yes , should never gave their defender a chance to block it . Smash it .
Yes!
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One of the essential qualities required in order to be a good football journalist or commentator is the ability to hide ones bias.
And it would be a good idea to also hide your ignorance in this case.
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It was a fascinating game rather than a good one, the tactical discipline from both teams was immense. They worked very hard to stop the vertical balls from Torres-Youri-Rogers and we had to think our way around that. Thought Carlos' distribution and overall performance was top notch, Digne was very good in his battle with their winger, who was very impressive. But Kamara head and shoulders the best player on the field. Rogers looks to be going through his first sticky patch, that first touch needs work.
On the goal, I didn't even celebrate, we aren't getting away with that contact on the keeper given what went on before with our players getting yellows for their first innoccuous fouls and them getting off with 4/5 of the same before a card. A really poor performance from the ref.
I thought Juventus played out of our press very well and could have caused us problems with a bit of ambition but they seemed content with a 0-0, we seemed good until the last third, then a bit wasteful giving it away it promising places and then having to defend the quick break.
Duggie was sitting with some of his family in Carlos' box, didn't seem particularly overjoyed to be back but signed a few autographs and acknowledged all the good wishes.
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One of the essential qualities required in order to be a good football journalist or commentator is the ability to hide ones bias.
And it would be a good idea to also hide your ignorance in this case.
Wishful thinking perhaps, gleefully reporting our decline as his favourite team have a (new) latest flavour of the month and will surely now take our place.
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I thought we looked much more like what we have come to expect from an Emery team. Well organised and able to retain possession and limit chances for the opposition. Hopefully it’s a sign that we’re over our blip.
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Just watched the highlights back for the first time since getting home last night and my opinion hasn't changed that the goal should have stood. Thought the standard of refs might improve based on some of the absolute fucking clowns we got in the Conference League, but evidently not. I don't like to think that there's an agenda for the big boys to get the results they need but you do have to wonder.
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On the tellybox after Rogers put it in, it stayed 0-0 on the screen for what seemed like ages, then changed to 1-0, showed a re-run of Rogers celebrating then went back to 0-0. It was all a bit odd.
Yeah I think there must've been a delay between the ref's earpiece and the mafia.
Haven't been able to browse through the various reports yet, but has there been any more mention about the decision? The BBC report I have read said the goal was ruled out by VAR, which poses some big questions about the process that was used to arrive at that decision.
If the ref gave it as a foul, then no real issues with that. I would question the decision as I felt the keeper's momentum took him into Carlos rather and as Mark Halsey pointed out on Talksport this morning, the keeper didn't have control of the ball when they collided. That said, any contact with a keeper in mid-air pretty much always results in a foul being given, so it isn't surprising that it was on this occasion.
If, however, the ref gave it as a goal and was then essentially overruled by someone sitting in an office goodness knows where, then questions should be asked. Surely in that scenario, the correct process would be for there to be an official VAR check and the referee to look at it on a monitor? No VAR check came up on the screens and he certainly didn't go over and view any footage.
Either way, it was poorly handled by the referee and it left everyone in the ground, including the players, confused.
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Just watched the highlights back for the first time since getting home last night and my opinion hasn't changed that the goal should have stood. Thought the standard of refs might improve based on some of the absolute fucking clowns we got in the Conference League, but evidently not. I don't like to think that there's an agenda for the big boys to get the results they need but you do have to wonder.
When the entire structure of the competition is altered to make sure the big players get more games and revenue, you do have to wonder how far it actually goes reality.
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I assumed that the ref had given the foul and VAR saw nothing to overule with that decision.
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It happened too quickly too. A goal that definitely decides a tight game and it took about 20 seconds to resolve. Feels like something went wrong to me.
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I assumed that the ref had given the foul and VAR saw nothing to overall with that decision.
Yep. Although at first, from the LTR, I thought he'd signalled a goal. Thinking back, he probably gave the foul. Since VAR saw nothing clear to overturn that, he wasn't sent to the screen
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I known that Jonathan Liew tends towards the pretentious, but I think he's got things about right here
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/nov/28/emery-has-tools-to-fix-aston-villa-but-overloaded-watkins-needs-support
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Martinez - apart from the single world class save not really anything to do of note
Cash - Still chops inside a little too much but did well both back and forward
Carlos - sure all night long, some of his long balls came off - was funny to see him go on a Hutton and looked like he was going to shit himself :D
Torres - cool as a cucumber
Digne - great in the tackle against a very dangerous and tricky winger - shame about the cross bar effort
McGinn - Not a huge on the ball contributor but ran his balls off on our press - should of leathered the chance he had
Kamara - Rolls Royce of a player - keep him fit and we will be back
Tielemans - thought he had another good game only shackled by a ridiculous yellow early doors
Bailey - Certainly starting to see a return to previous high levels - needs a goal
Rogers - as many have said looks gassed - we need to remember his age and the weight of expectation on him - maybe time to try Buendia or Ramsay when fit
Watkins - ran their back 4 all night - great attempt saved but nothing else really
Subs
Duran - again i think the new weight of expectation is sitting heavy with him and he is not a "unknown" kid anymore
Barklay - some nice confident touches and passes
Others - nothing to report
Ref - very poor
Them - although if ever a team lived up to the cheating, black arts using stereotype it is them - you still have to admire their defensive qualities and close passing is superb
Overall - i really enjoyed the game, very tight, tactical battle that could of gone either way with us just shading it on actual chances.
Fancy us now against Chelsea
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It happened too quickly too. A goal that definitely decides a tight game and it took about 20 seconds to resolve. Feels like something went wrong to me.
did the ref blow for a foul straight away or a goal. Didn't seem clear on TV
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Martinez - apart from the single world class save not really anything to do of note
Cash - Still chops inside a little too much but did well both back and forward
Carlos - sure all night long, some of his long balls came off - was funny to see him go on a Hutton and looked like he was going to shit himself :D
Torres - cool as a cucumber
Digne - great in the tackle against a very dangerous and tricky winger - shame about the cross bar effort
McGinn - Not a huge on the ball contributor but ran his balls off on our press - should of leathered the chance he had
Kamara - Rolls Royce of a player - keep him fit and we will be back
Tielemans - thought he had another good game only shackled by a ridiculous yellow early doors
Bailey - Certainly starting to see a return to previous high levels - needs a goal
Rogers - as many have said looks gassed - we need to remember his age and the weight of expectation on him - maybe time to try Buendia or Ramsay when fit
Watkins - ran their back 4 all night - great attempt saved but nothing else really
Subs
Duran - again i think the new weight of expectation is sitting heavy with him and he is not a "unknown" kid anymore
Barklay - some nice confident touches and passes
Others - nothing to report
Ref - very poor
Them - although if ever a team lived up to the cheating, black arts using stereotype it is them - you still have to admire their defensive qualities and close passing is superb
Overall - i really enjoyed the game, very tight, tactical battle that could of gone either way with us just shading it on actual chances.
Fancy us now against Chelsea
I do too seeing that type of performance.
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I thought he pointed to the centre spot, twice actually.
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I think it was the very definition of a dour 0-0 draw. There was some quality on display, but it wasn't an action packed end-to-end classic.
Definitely not a game for the neutrals to watch.
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I knew he wasn't going to give the goal, right or wrong, just knew it as soon as you come together with a keeper in the air in Europe.
Yeah me too. The kids were jumping up and down and hugging each other, I didn’t move.
No surprise given you're more knowledgeable than most about the Italian mafia and their corrupt ways.
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I thought he pointed to the centre spot, twice actually.
I did at the time - but I think he was pointing for a free kick on reflection. I think most people thought it was a goal in the ground - but I think the ref gave the freekick - Var checked to see if it would be overturned (i.e. a goal). They said no. So he pointed again (to show the direction of the free kick). He then did the no goal signal (at the time I thought it was VAR but on reflection I think was the no goal).
I think thats why Morgan reacted the way he did in his muted celebration.
Not sure how the refree gave it as a foul from where he was - the contact was minimal and after he had failed to grab it. I was expecting VAR to overturn it if had been given as the GK was acting like he had been cut in half.
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Martinez 8, Cash 8, Carlos 7, Torres 6, Digne 6, Kamara 8, Tielemans 6, Bailey 7, Rogers 4, McGinn 6, Watkins 6.
Lord help me I agree with Bronte's player ratings (though perhaps I'd give Cash a 7 - meaning I'm the misery-arse here!).
I don't know if I was 'disgusted' by that display exactly, but then I am moderately sane.
Me too, I actually agree with the rating for Cash, who I thought had a great game, and I'd up Rogers to a 5 because he kept going and did put the ball in the net, as well as working back a lot to help Digne.
I thought we played well defensively and it was only really that 1 corner where they created a real chance. Going forward we're nearly good, we're the final pass or a better finish away from putting 4-5 past someone and getting back on track but in the meantime we're just butchering chances after lots of very good build-up work.
I think Torres and especially Digne who I thought had a great game should be at least a 7. Digne list the initial battle with the winger but after that played him really well and also offered something in attack.
Kamara our standout player.
Impressed by their winger and big Gatti at the back who marshalled the defence superbly.
Not too much to get excited about all being told and I thought the atmosphere was a bit off, still shows how far we’ve come to be thinking we should be beating Juventus even though they’ve not got as many household names as yesteryear.
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not sure how Cash gets an 8 and Digne a 6 . I'd reverse that
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I thought he pointed to the centre spot, twice actually.
I did at the time - but I think he was pointing for a free kick on reflection. I think most people thought it was a goal in the ground - but I think the ref gave the freekick - Var checked to see if it would be overturned (i.e. a goal). They said no. So he pointed again (to show the direction of the free kick). He then did the no goal signal (at the time I thought it was VAR but on reflection I think was the no goal).
I think thats why Morgan reacted the way he did in his muted celebration.
Not sure how the refree gave it as a foul from where he was - the contact was minimal and after he had failed to grab it. I was expecting VAR to overturn it if had been given as the GK was acting like he had been cut in half.
He definitely pointed towards the half way line. He was 25 yards from the incident so there's no way he could have seen any minimal contact on the keeper. If he was pointing to the half way line in order to indicate he was giving a free kick he's proved what an incompetent referee he actually is. He's supposed to point one arm at the incident and the other arm towards the halfway line. Just pointing one arm towards the halfway line usually means the goal is given. Basically he can't even get pointing right so what hope is there for him?
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not sure how Cash gets an 8 and Digne a 6 . I'd reverse that
Digne struggled early on with their winger I thought. He really has to start doing a lot more in advanced positions when he gets the ball too. I think Maatsen will eventually replace him for that reason.
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not sure how Cash gets an 8 and Digne a 6 . I'd reverse that
Digne struggled early on with their winger I thought. He really has to start doing a lot more in advanced positions when he gets the ball too. I think Maatsen will eventually replace him for that reason.
he's our player of the season so far
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I think we were much better yesterday - played well and should have won. They are a good side and set up well. I thought are midfield was much better - Kamara reading of the game and ability to keep the ball and beat the press is essential. I would love to see him and Onana together - with Yuri further forward.
All our supporting attackers seem to be struggling at the moment - Roger’s looked tired, McGinn huffed and puffed and Bailey has been a shadow of last season. All did some good things - but with Ramsay out we need one of them to find some form.
I think that’s one of the other challenges of the UCL - very difficult for players to play themselves into form when every game is so tough and we have a lack of options in the attacking sense. I read a state that in 2024 were 8 overall in the league which feels about right for how we have been.
Injuries and poorer form of key players have limited us but we’re still in touch with the top 4 and think maybe moves in Jan would help. I think attacking is the key area. Defensively we haven’t been great but like yesterday shows - we have enough calibre back there and a working midfield would help them
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I felt for a nil nil it was a pretty absorbing spectacle. I'm not disappointed with a point but appreciate it was so nearly all three.
1. The crowd getting at Bailey and now Rogers really won't help two players who are down on confidence. I know they've been poor but the groans really are unhelpful.
2. Anybody else hear the booing when the stadium announcements were made in the beautiful Italian language? The clown behind me was particularly vociferous, even dismissing it as "woke". ("Woke as in "things I don't like or don't understand"). I took pleasure in informing him that the same linguistic hospitality was offered us at Bruges so we could understand substitutions, added time, etc.
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I think it was the very definition of a dour 0-0 draw. There was some quality on display, but it wasn't an action packed end-to-end classic.
Just because it wasn't the latter doesn't make it the former.
It was definitely a tactical battle in which defences and being resolute overcame flair and creativity though.
I enjoyed it because it was tense, the referee was a baddie, and for the occasion itself.
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Thought the ref was played like a violin by Locatelli all game…proper fan boy type of refereeing…thank god they didn’t play in the black and white stripes, they’d have swapped shirts on the way off
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Rogers looks knackered!
I agree but he looked like he had a heavy cold/chest infection- he was coughing and gobbing.
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That ref was so clearly on the take. Do clubs ever push for it to be investigated?
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Nobody wants to have a go at Juve more than I do, but the ref gave us a few marshmallow-soft freekicks as well. Less bribed, more like he was really jittery about covid and enforcing social distancing.
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That’s how bent refs work. Unless they’re really really bad at it.
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Another bent ref in charge at old Trafford this evening blatant corruption
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That’s how bent refs work. Unless they’re really really bad at it.
So somebody bribes them, and to throw everyone off the scent they...referee the game evenly? 'Hm I know I like the money they gave me but I don't want to look suspicious, better cover my tracks by giving their opponents several questionable freekicks in dangerous areas.'
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That’s how bent refs work. Unless they’re really really bad at it.
So somebody bribes them, and to throw everyone off the scent they...referee the game evenly? 'Hm I know I like the money they gave me but I don't want to look suspicious, better cover my tracks by giving their opponents several questionable freekicks in dangerous areas.'
Until the really big calls which decide the score of a game. Like disallowing a perfectly fair goal.
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Do you think that referees take bribes ever? With the amount of money involved in football and organised crime involved in gambling and refs earning a relatively low wage. It’d be odd if it didn’t happen.
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That’s how bent refs work. Unless they’re really really bad at it.
So somebody bribes them, and to throw everyone off the scent they...referee the game evenly? 'Hm I know I like the money they gave me but I don't want to look suspicious, better cover my tracks by giving their opponents several questionable freekicks in dangerous areas.'
Until the really big calls which decide the score of a game. Like disallowing a perfectly fair goal.
The devils!
Um, yes I do think referees have taken bribes in the history of football.
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He has form for very dodgy calls.
But I’m not trying to convince you because neither of us would know either way.
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He made several in the match, yeah - but many against Juve! I think perhaps he's just not very good.
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If you think it’s bribery it’s probably more easily explained by gross incompetence.
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Booking 3 villa players in the first 20 mins was the one that looked dodgy to me
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yeah I saw he blew the whistle while madrid scored a winner , not sure who they was playing and declan rice said he was the worse ref he had seen , so maybe he is just shite but then again he should be referring FC Cartagena v Tenerife.
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Brace yerselves. Joe Cole talking sense:
https://x.com/louisdebono2/status/1861913535619518467?s=46&t=GdM6cpVxe5IloByNCRheWA
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Brace yerselves. Joe Cole talking sense:
https://x.com/louisdebono2/status/1861913535619518467?s=46&t=GdM6cpVxe5IloByNCRheWA
I’d agree with that, said as much after the game. The players and fans for that matter didn’t really believe that it was going to stand, bit of a subdued or strange reaction to scoring a last minute goal.
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Another bent ref in charge at old Trafford this evening blatant corruption
Onana didn't handle the ball outside his box once, twice maybe but not once. Ref thought his second handball cancelled out the first one because it was yanited!
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And thinks Clarry Blue is Guy Fawkes! Twat!
*Clarrie ;)
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Do you think that referees take bribes ever? With the amount of money involved in football and organised crime involved in gambling and refs earning a relatively low wage. It’d be odd if it didn’t happen.
The only one that springs to mind where I've watched the game and seriously thought "something isn't right here" was the home leg of the semi-final against Olympiakos last season.
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The yellow cards were weird, booked Tielemans for a a very soft foul and then let challenges like that go without a booking for the rest of the game and backed it up by booking Bailey for dissent before letting things like kicking the ball away, blocking a free kick and arguing about decisions go.
Just a really odd and inconsistent performance anyway which became truly awful with a game defining decision in the final seconds.
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It would be naive to think corruption doesn't happen in football. Liverpool away when David Coote bottled giving us a penalty because he knew the shit was about to hit the fan was that corruption? Not really but I truly believe it influenced his decision making that day. Was the ref the other night corrupt or inept? Juve certainly have history so who knows. I do know he didn't know what to do. He pointed to the half way line which looked for all the world like he was giving the goal but apparently that's how he indicated it was a foul. Your supposed to point at the incident then raise your arm to give the foul. Corruption? Who knows. Incompetent? Definitely.
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Brace yerselves. Joe Cole talking sense:
https://x.com/louisdebono2/status/1861913535619518467?s=46&t=GdM6cpVxe5IloByNCRheWA
Very interesting take from Joe Cole. He's bang on the money and the player he's not naming is John Terry. We are way too passive and Unai seems far too honest to instruct the players so it would have to come from within the players themselves. I remarked during the game just how vehemently they contested every decision no matter how obviously wrong their protests were. There won several 50/50 throw ins by ranting at the officials and Bailey got booked because they were in the refs face. It's horrible to watch but they don't care. I really think we need to be savvy if we're going to win anything especially if we're to progress in Europe. When in Rome.
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With the ref's it's mostly incompetence, and by that I don't mean being able to make a decision, I mean more they're weak minded, suggestible, influenced by celebrity and suchlike.
They make decisions based on getting on in their careers, upsetting the likes of Juve, Barca or Madrid at this level threatens that, just like it does with the usual suspects in our own league.
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I don’t agree with “we are far too passive” suggestion. We were in their faces ok on Wednesday and no one chatters more than McGinn. Of course the Italian mentality takes it to a different level and we don’t necessarily want to do that. We didn’t have much success when Terry was on the pitch for us which proves that it’s better teams and better players that win football games not yabbers.