Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: olaftab on November 23, 2024, 08:00:17 PM
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UEFA Champions League
When: Wednesday 27 November, Kick off 20:00GMT
Where: Villa Park
So we welcome Juventus back to Villa Park after many years. Not the best time to do so considering our current form but this is one of those grand occasions in European football that we should relish.
Juve are unbeaten this season but wallowing 6th in the Serie A, a bit like us in PL. They have won 6 and drawn 7 games. They have scored 21 goals and conceded only 7 in 13, so a tough nut to crack. In CL they have won 2 drawn 1 and lost 1 and currently sit 11th. A win should see us qualified.
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Fucking dreading this. Coming at the most perfectly shit time for us to be playing these bastards. And it's my birthday next Saturday!There's absolutely no chance we're winning this.
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Fucking dreading this. Coming at the most perfectly shit time for us to be playing these bastards. And it's my birthday next Saturday!There's absolutely no chance we're winning this.
Happy birthday for next week monty mate. Your a fellow sagg like me 😂 let's hope villa can both bring us a early bday present 🎁
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Fucking dreading this. Coming at the most perfectly shit time for us to be playing these bastards. And it's my birthday next Saturday!There's absolutely no chance we're winning this.
Haha! Chin up Monty, I reckon the Villa will give you an early birthday present.
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Ha thanks a lot lads but don't bet on it! I'm not very well educated in my astrological attributes but if I'm any guide, a defining feature of Sagittarii seems to be 'backs massive losers'.
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0-2
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Another win and clean sheet (we do those in CL) would be nice
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Humiliation
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Time to avenge 1983, 1-0 to the Villa and 'Morose' Monty banished in time for his birthday bash.
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Any of the injured players back for this? Konsa must me close...
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Humiliation
That's the spirit.
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As a 14yr old nearly got crushed in the surge at the back of the Holte, when Sid scored against them what seems a lifetime ago. Luckily have tickets for me and the boy, hope he enjoys the occasion. I think they will come at us like Bayern did, so we need to defend better than we have recently. Think this will be an entertaining game and could go either way
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Humiliation
Had you down as more of a lights off, socks on, missionary once a year kind of guy.
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I expect an entertaining game, I doubt if we can keep a clean sheet right now so to get anything we will need to score a couple.
Emery will have a plan.
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I hope we don’t get any corners.
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3-2 Villa.
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Think the slower pace of Juve will suit us and I’m expecting us to win this one but, then probably get 1 point out of our next 2 league matches.
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Dougie not in their squad yesterday.
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Need a big performance here but that all depends on who is available. Our midfield is powder puff atm and is the reason we are conceding so many goals in my view.
That said, if we can start well for a change then we can get something here.
2-2 and qualification to the play offs secured with 3 games to spare.
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Dougie not in their squad yesterday.
It's really not working out for him there is it.
If we can get him back on loan id take him in a heart beat
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He wouldn't solve the problem. Kamara will.
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I saw something (the Athletic? on here? from the Athletic on here?) about how, for all his excellence, Tielemans' much greater verticality of passing might be costing us. Doug was a lot more patient, a lot better at working the small spaces in the middle. Tielemans is so much better at actual creative passes, but he tries so many of them that we're losing the ball more often, either off the passes not working or the recipient being isolated and crowded out.
I still think, for now at least, we should put Tielemans in the 10 position he's basically playing already, put Rogers left to simplify his role and let him focus on his ball game (so to speak), and have a more simplistic but more solid midfield two behind YT to make us less blancmange-like on the counter.
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Fucking dreading this. Coming at the most perfectly shit time for us to be playing these bastards. And it's my birthday next Saturday!There's absolutely no chance we're winning this.
Ha!
Its my birthday on the night. It’ll be a nice present if we can win.
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There's absolutely no chance we're winning this.
I wouldn't be so sure. I fancy a draw but it's not unwinnable. Even if we are out of sorts.
Villa Park under the lights has been the site of many a big occasion. This could be another one.
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There's absolutely no chance we're winning this.
I wouldn't be so sure. I fancy a draw but it's not unwinnable. Even if we are out of sorts.
Villa Park under the lights has been the site of many a big occasion. This could be another one.
You misunderstand, you're trying to make rational arguments which I respect. But it would make me, Andy, Demitri and our fellow Sagis happy, and I've read our horoscope:
"This month, you will be challenged by potential disappointments. Be prepared to meet them with a level head. Also, the midfield cannot cope with defensive transitions and the attacking shape is out of balance, 0-2 Juventus."
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He wouldn't solve the problem. Kamara will.
In part, he can’t do it alone. The combination of Doug and Kamara over an extended period was a combination that gave us pretty much perfect balance. It screened the defence and it linked the play through to attack. Clearly the former is gone, but we need to work out the combination that starts to make the midfield effective in its role again.
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I saw something (the Athletic? on here? from the Athletic on here?) about how, for all his excellence, Tielemans' much greater verticality of passing might be costing us. Doug was a lot more patient, a lot better at working the small spaces in the middle. Tielemans is so much better at actual creative passes, but he tries so many of them that we're losing the ball more often, either off the passes not working or the recipient being isolated and crowded out.
That sounds right and was what we were speaking of yesterday, the Youri-Rogers vertical ball is our main attacking weapon with Bailey off form. But teams know this and are crowding them both and, certainly yesterday, Rogers first touch looked off.
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We need to massively up the intensity and start making it hard for teams again. We are so bloody easy to play against at the moment.
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I saw something (the Athletic? on here? from the Athletic on here?) about how, for all his excellence, Tielemans' much greater verticality of passing might be costing us. Doug was a lot more patient, a lot better at working the small spaces in the middle. Tielemans is so much better at actual creative passes, but he tries so many of them that we're losing the ball more often, either off the passes not working or the recipient being isolated and crowded out.
I still think, for now at least, we should put Tielemans in the 10 position he's basically playing already, put Rogers left to simplify his role and let him focus on his ball game (so to speak), and have a more simplistic but more solid midfield two behind YT to make us less blancmange-like on the counter.
Tielemans is a clever player but he's got no pace or physicality so when we don't have a midfield with an enforcer we are likely to struggle in that area.
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Depends who we can get back. Onana and / or Kamara back, I'd say 1-1, without them, 1-2.
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He wouldn't solve the problem. Kamara will.
In part, he can’t do it alone. The combination of Doug and Kamara over an extended period was a combination that gave us pretty much perfect balance. It screened the defence and it linked the play through to attack. Clearly the former is gone, but we need to work out the combination that starts to make the midfield effective in its role again.
Put Barkley next to him and we're far more similar to the partnership we had last season. Solid, keep possession and can pick a pass.
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Humiliation
I think I’d genuinely give up watching us if I felt like this. It’s not that bad, is it?
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I hope we don’t get any corners.
Same. If we do get one, I hope we just smash it straight out for a goal kick. Get the press ready.
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Humiliation
I think I’d genuinely give up watching us if I felt like this. It’s not that bad, is it?
Heat of the moment stuff I'm sure.
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I hope we don’t get any corners.
Same. If we do get one, I hope we just smash it straight out for a goal kick. Get the press ready.
Glad to see I'm not the only one to think that this whole conceding from our own corners thing is actually quite funny!
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It’s just pure bad coaching, that’s three times in 2 games, leading to two goals being conceded.
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Humiliation
I think I’d genuinely give up watching us if I felt like this. It’s not that bad, is it?
No it isn’t, fortunately the C115y meltdown is keeping us away from the major headlines at the moment but there are issues we need to fix and I think most of us and more importantly Emery know that. And it’s levico as well one of the sites more outspoken doom mongering bedwetters, who often seems to post when we’re not doing as well.
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No it isn’t, fortunately the C115y meltdown is keeping us away from the major headlines at the moment but there are issues we need to fix and I think most of us and more importantly Emery know that. And it’s levico as well one of the sites more outspoken doom mongering bedwetters, who often seems to post when we’re not doing as well.
The problems have been evident for ages now, but every single week, the same things happen. When, and perhaps importantly, how is he going to fix them?
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Soon. We'll click and get back on a roll.
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Soon. We'll click and get back on a roll.
It needs to be pretty soon or you can say goodbye to Europe next season.
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You never know, we might get relegated!
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Soon. We'll click and get back on a roll.
Yes, as soon as we place some patrol ships in the ocean that’s apparent in our midfield.
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Soon. We'll click and get back on a roll.
It needs to be pretty soon or you can say goodbye to Europe next season.
We’re currently on the same points as a team in a European place, it’s not as dire as that just yet.
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No it isn’t, fortunately the C115y meltdown is keeping us away from the major headlines at the moment but there are issues we need to fix and I think most of us and more importantly Emery know that. And it’s levico as well one of the sites more outspoken doom mongering bedwetters, who often seems to post when we’re not doing as well.
The problems have been evident for ages now, but every single week, the same things happen. When, and perhaps importantly, how is he going to fix them?
If I knew that I’d be the Manager. But in answer to your question:
- Kamara and Onana both being available would help.
- Carlos to only be an option from the bench.
- Konsa at centre back, Cash at RB
- Drop Rogers
- Pau seems to be carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders, time for some crisp Sunday night Paella cooking.
We were hamstrung this week with both Konsa and Kamara injured and Cash not on first half meaning we have a painfully slow team in transition. I also think Emery quite inappropriately had half an eye on Wednesday night with a fit Cash and Digne sitting it out.
It was patently obvious yesterday that they were willing to let Bogarde have acres of space and overload and stifle us in central midfield first half and I’m amazed we didn’t make use of that but Carlos in particular seemed utterly determined to not pass to him around the side of the central block. Was that by design or can the players not adapt to the situation unfolding in front of them?
I actually think we played ok yesterday not brilliant but certainly a step up pre what went before the international break and if that puts me in the mindlessly optimistic happy clappers camp then so be it but sort out the above and we’ll be back on track. It was interesting that the box midfield was more apparent at the start of the second half with McGInn moving right and Rogers left and we seemed to really get on top of them up until the equaliser partly due to all 3 centre backs being occupied.
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He wouldn't solve the problem. Kamara will.
I think it would greatly help though. Agree we need kamara back but luiz and kamara played very well together
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I'm going to be positive even with how we have been playing recently I'm going for a 2-1 win.
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Watching the Palace 'highlights' back on MotD this morning, I was left fuming at that first goal....
Maatsen was the only player chasing back with their goalscorer, with two further Palace players in hot pursuit, ready for any potential rebound. Where were Torres and Diego Carlos..... jogging back without a care in the world, that's where!
As mentioned on the post match thread, Torres may be a footballing centre half, but his first job as a defender is to fucking defend! Putting it nicely, he's not very good at this part. And enough has been said about Diego Carlos.
I think we need to go back to basics. We look like we're currently playing a midfield triangle with the pointy end in 'the hole'. We need to drop Rogers (or put him on the left wing), and spin that triangle around with the pointy end being a midfielder PLANTED in front of the back four.
If Kamara and/or Onana aren't fit for Wednesday, I'd stick McGinn in there - Someone not afraid to put it about, and has a little more energy than either Tielemans or Barkley.
If Unai has the same squad to choose from, this would be my 11. Whilst McGinn isn't the best at DM, I think he's the best choice we have at present.
Martinez
Cash Carlos Mings Digne
McGinn
Barkley Tielemans
Bailey Rogers(*or Maatsen)
Watkins
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Monty, what is the craic with Luiz at Juve, why isn't he getting a look-in? You cover calcio for La Stampa, vero? Please enlighten us.
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McGinn isn't a defensive midfielder and he isn't anymore disciplined than the other two. He does have presence, although his arse roll is lessening with impact.
Martinez
Cash
Mings
Torres
Digne
Rogers
McGinn
Barkley
Bailey
Tielemans
Watkins
Key is that the bottom of the box in McGinn and Barkley doesnt make the space between them and the centre halves too great. Now and then we need to compress space.
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Monty, what is the craic with Luiz at Juve, why isn't he getting a look-in? You cover calcio for La Stampa, vero? Please enlighten us.
Juventus open to selling Douglas Luiz in January
Alessandro Bai Alessandro Bai
56 seconds ago
Ex-Aston Villa star Douglas Luiz failed to really bounce back from his troubled start to the season at Juventus and the club are so disappointed with his performances that he could be put on sale in the winter transfer market.
The Brazilian midfielder was one of the Bianconeri’s most expensive signings of the last transfer window, as he moved to the Allianz Stadium in a deal worth an overall €50m, also including players Enzo Barrenechea and Samuel Iling-Junior, who joined the Premier League side
However, the 26-year-old has made such a poor impact on Serie A that the Old Lady would be open to dispatching the player to recoup at least part of the money they invested or finance other deals.
Why Juventus could put Douglas Luiz on sale in January
Douglas Luiz’s below-par performances and coach Thiago Motta’s limited trust in his new signing are pushing Juventus to consider the sale of the midfielder in the upcoming transfer window, as reported by Gazzetta dello Sport.
The Brazil international’s start to his Bianconeri career was marked by huge criticism from his supporters and the press, particularly after he gave away two penalties in two consecutive matches, one of them costing his side two points as it allowed Cagliari to rescue a late 1-1 draw at the Allianz Stadium.
In addition, the pink newspaper reports that the improvements Thiago Motta expected from Douglas Luiz never came, as he kept struggling to show the intensity the coach required, with his latest injury further hindering his adaptation to Italian football.
With Juventus forced to bolster their defence and attack, mainly due to injuries, with a limited budget, selling the former Aston Villa midfielder in January would be a way to get the funds they need to sign other players or lower the price of one of their target by potentially including him in a deal.
From sky italia. Sounds like he has flopped bad there. I bet he regrets pushing for the move now. He should have stayed still and signed with us
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Did he actually push for a move? I thought it was a case of no one really wanted it to happen, but financially it had to be done. I know there were rumours about an unsigned contract, but that might have been due to us not offering him what he thought he deserved. I might be wrong.
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Did he actually push for a move? I thought it was a case of no one really wanted it to happen, but financially it had to be done. I know there were rumours about an unsigned contract, but that might have been due to us not offering him what he thought he deserved. I might be wrong.
Im sure i read somewhere someone said he wanted the move. Cant remember if it was unai or monchi
Probably clubs hands were tied if that was the case as we couldnt risk losing on a free.
I think he would jump at the chance to come back. Being linked with manure
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It looks like his last 6 months firm with us has carried on. Makes me think twice about resigning him.
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It looks like his last 6 months firm with us has carried on. Makes me think twice about resigning him.
Thats why id prefer a loan first if thats a option available. I do think uts just him unsettled there.
90% of his time here he was very good. Jusy as you say the last 6 months his form dipped but so did mosts
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Torres marking Vlahovic isn't something i'm looking forward to
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Torres marking Vlahovic isn't something i'm looking forward to
You might not need to worry about that
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I am looking forward to Torres playing a superb pass like the one to McGinn yesterday that led to Ollie's goal.
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I am looking forward to Torres playing a superb pass like the one to McGinn yesterday that led to Ollie's goal.
Indeed, the pile in is just utter nonsense and I keep coming back to it he was playing in defence when we were defending pretty well start of last year. He has some flaws defensively, but he’s not some mug.
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I hope we don’t get any corners.
Remembering the 'Cornalty' days. However, at least back then it was the opposition taking the corners rather than Villa
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Torres marking Vlahovic isn't something i'm looking forward to
Not sure he’s that quick, is he?
It’s brawn and pace we struggle against with the Carlos/Torres axis.
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Tough game no doubt about it but I do fancy us to get either a 1-0 or 2-1 win.
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I am looking forward to Torres playing a superb pass like the one to McGinn yesterday that led to Ollie's goal.
Indeed, the pile in is just utter nonsense and I keep coming back to it he was playing in defence when we were defending pretty well start of last year. He has some flaws defensively, but he’s not some mug.
Its fashionable to have a pile in/on.
We wouldn't be a fansite if there wasn't one.
Torres plays for me, probably with Konsa if he's fit.
2-1 Villa.
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Deleted
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They play 4-2-2-2 aswell. Not lost in Serie A yet but drawn 7 of their 13 games and lack goals without Vlahovic around.
I think this is a nailed on 1-1.
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Reckon 3-3 on this. You watch us go and batter them now
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Will Onana be fit for this?
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I think Emery will put the team into Bayern Munich defensive mode, ie 6 men behind the ball, and it'll be a tight 0-0.
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They drew 0-0 away at Milan at the weekend , they will be a tough nut to crack so we will need to be clinical with any chances that come our way .
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A super article in the GRauniad this morning - here (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/nov/25/aston-villa-juventus-champions-league-1983-italy-world-cup).
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Anyone (BV?) know where they might screen this in Rio?
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Torres marking Vlahovic isn't something i'm looking forward to
Not sure he’s that quick, is he?
It’s brawn and pace we struggle against with the Carlos/Torres axis.
It's all kinds of defending with those two, players running at them, crosses into the box, big Diego was fond of wafting a leg out to helpfully deflect a shot over Emi once or twice last season too.
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It's rare during Emery's reign to go into a game with trepidation and even rarer to predict a defeat but that's what I'm going to do. Only because I feel we are going through a spell where things have conspired against us, not just injuries but players out of form, making the wrong choices and looking uninspired. Tactically we seem to be repeating mistakes and not learning from them and we certainly lack leadership on the pitch.
It will get sorted, of that I am certain but perhaps not before Weds, and I can only see the opposition just being a bit to savvy on the night.
0-2
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Anyone (BV?) know where they might screen this in Rio?
Are you in Rio atm? If so, where are you staying?
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Torres marking Vlahovic isn't something i'm looking forward to
Not sure he’s that quick, is he?
It’s brawn and pace we struggle against with the Carlos/Torres axis.
It's all kinds of defending with those two, players running at them, crosses into the box, big Diego was fond of wafting a leg out to helpfully deflect a shot over Emi once or twice last season too.
Looks like Vlahovic might be out for this one , wasn't even on the bench at the weekend
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Anyone (BV?) know where they might screen this in Rio?
Are you in Rio atm? If so, where are you staying?
Flying out from Madrid tomorrow, staying the first few days in Lapa/Santa Teresa area.
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Anyone (BV?) know where they might screen this in Rio?
Are you in Rio atm? If so, where are you staying?
Flying out from Madrid tomorrow, staying the first few days in Lapa/Santa Teresa area.
Nice time of year to visit. Lapa has lots of bars but can be sketchy in parts at night. I'm not as keen on it as others are.
I normally stay in Copacabana and watch games there or in Ipanema. Maybe hop on the metro from Glória to Praça General Osório in Ipanema and try some of the bars on Ruas Teixeira de Melo or Farme de Amoedo. The game is on Max Brazil but they'll probably be showing the Liverpool / Real Madrid on the main screen. A few caipirinhas will help ease the disappointment should we lose.
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BTW do NOT use the ATMs at Rio airport when you arrive. They're notorious for card skimming which wouldn't be a good start to your trip.
How long are you there for? Heading anywhere else apart from Rio?
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A week in Rio, second half in Leblon. Then onto Sao Paolo. Cheers for the tips.
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Just noticed that little shower of shit Francisco Conceicao plays for these. Can we get Diego to stamp his foot into a thousand pieces just for a laugh?
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Just noticed that little shower of shit Francisco Conceicao plays for these. Can we get Diego to stamp his foot into a thousand pieces just for a laugh?
I have my booing lungs at the ready.
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This is revenge. 3-1 Villa. Peace Cup doesn't count.
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A week in Rio, second half in Leblon. Then onto Sao Paolo. Cheers for the tips.
No worries, just a bit jealous like. Might post a few more in the Holiday thread, and if you have any questions feel free to ask there.
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This is revenge. 3-1 Villa. Peace Cup doesn't count.
won't score 3 , Juve are tight defenders
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I think 1-1
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This is revenge. 3-1 Villa. Peace Cup doesn't count.
won't score 3 , Juve are tight defenders
Only conceded 7 in the league so far this year, lowest in Serie A.
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A week in Rio, second half in Leblon. Then onto Sao Paolo. Cheers for the tips.
Now, I do believe BV knows some interesting places in SP for a young man to visit👌🏽
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This is revenge. 3-1 Villa. Peace Cup doesn't count.
won't score 3 , Juve are tight defenders
Only conceded 7 in the league so far this year, lowest in Serie A.
exactly that, one chance and it needs to go in
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Just noticed that little shower of shit Francisco Conceicao plays for these. Can we get Diego to stamp his foot into a thousand pieces just for a laugh?
I have my booing lungs at the ready.
It would be too compliacent - would probably just end up with his foot stuck in the turf
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Kamara pictured in the training photos today.
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Kamara pictured in the training photos today.
Good news
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Kamara pictured in the training photos today.
Good news
Of all the players that we could have out injured, only Martinez is on the same level in terms of being irreplaceable within the team imo.
Vital we get the pre injury Bouba back asap. I suspect the goals against column will get a bit of respite once he is ticking again.
He is absolutely vital to the way we play.
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I wonder if eventually we will play Kamara in a back 3 alongside Pau and Konsa?
Great news if he is back
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Ian Hawkey in The Times today. Doesn’t sound like it’s gone to plan for Dougie.
“Juventus went to the San Siro and lined up with six midfielders — maybe seven, if you were to offer a proper appreciation of all the skills and territories that Andrea Cambiaso, left back one day, right flank the next, can master.
Or perhaps even eight, if you were to fire back at their head coach, Thiago Motta, a quote he has never been allowed to forget and count Michele di Gregorio. Di Gregorio is Juventus's goalkeeper and, as Motta once put it in a much mocked exposition of his idea of a 2-7-2 formation: “The keeper counts as one of the players in the middle of the pitch.”
As it turned out, Saturday's midfielder-heavy team mustered two shots on target against AC Milan, both from outside the penalty area. That was twice as many as Milan mustered on an evening that did nothing to rescue Serie A's most fabled fixture from its developing reputation as Italy's dullest. It is two nil-nils in succession now for Milan-Juventus and 3½ goalless hours of football since anybody scored in their clashes.
The Juventus midfielder Teun Koopmeiners had at least begun the evening trying to inject suspense. “Where will I be playing tonight?” he teased in a pre-match interview. “We're keeping that as a surprise for Milan.” Bar one imaginative first-half run, the Dutchman proved an ineffective pseudo-striker. Ditto Weston McKennie, periodically cosplaying at centre forward because of injuries to others.
Besides preserving Juventus's unbeaten domestic run, the best outcome for Motta from a night of underwhelming surprises was that Aston Villa, where his side go in the Champions League on Wednesday, stay mystified about what sort of Juventus they should prepare for.
Almost certainly, it will be a team lacking the footballer Villa know best, Douglas Luiz, who spent Saturday observing Motta's midfield mosaic from distance and wondering where in the hierarchy he fits. Sixth choice? Seventh? Top ten? He'd certainly have envied the praise being showered on Khéphren Thuram, the 23-year-old Frenchman who joined along with him in the summer and outshone all the other midfielders. “Khéphren is the kind of player every coach wants in his squad,” Motta said with enthusiasm.“He's showed so much improvement, a great mentality and strength.”
Douglas Luiz is yet to receive similar tributes. The Brazilian, on whose purchase Juventus committed more than €50million (£41.6 million) in a complicated summer deal with Villa, has been out of action with muscle fatigue since October. Even before then, his grasp on a first-team place was tenuous. Motta picked him to start only two of the first ten games this season and soon found himself asking supporters not to scapegoat Douglas Luiz when, twice in the space of four days, he came on for the last half-hour of matches and gave away penalties. Against RB Leipzig, Juventus recovered from the setback for a stirring 3-2 win. Against Cagliari, his rash challenge meant a lead became a draw.
Thus the lowlights of a move freighted with great expectations. Douglas Luiz, it was supposed, could fulfil many of the tasks previously assigned to Paul Pogba, whose positive drug test last season terminated his relationship with Juventus. He'd be an all-round galvaniser who would win the ball and expertly deliver it to the flair, wide players such as Timothy Weah, the newcomers Chico Conceição and Nico González, and the Turkish prodigy Kenan Yildiz. Here was a midfielder who had helped to transform Villa into a club ready for elite European combat, a player whose international career had been revived, and who, at 26, seemed to be peaking.
Douglas Luiz was also an opportunity, a sale Villa felt obliged to make to comply with Premier League Profitability and Sustainability Rules (PRS). Having complained long and loud about how PSR is formulated, Villa ended up doing the deal with a club who themselves spent last season serving a ban from Uefa tournaments for having breached Financial Fair Play (FFP).
Deal done, Villa were promptly pitted directly against the former FFP felons in Uefa's principal competition. To this catalogue of ironies, January may yet add another. So alarmed are Juventus by their extensive injury list that winter offers for Douglas Luiz will be listened to if his outbound transfer could raise enough in funds for a new centre back.
That position was expertly patrolled by Gleison Bremer through the six clean sheets that began Motta's Serie A tenure with Juventus. In early October, Bremer tore his ACL and although Juventus have remained hard to beat, they suddenly looked leakier without him. Inter Milan put four past them in an eight-goal epic. A 100 per cent start in Europe gave way, after Bremer's injury, to points dropped thanks to inattentive marking against Stuttgart and Lille.
Still, a yield of seven points at the midway stage of the Champions League's first phase would be just about par for a club returning from Uefa banishment and under a head coach in his debut European campaign. For Motta, headhunted from Bologna in June, Wednesday's contest is a special test of European savvy, up against a specialist in that arena in Unai Emery, who was the last of the many distinguished coaches to have given instructions to Motta, the player, while they coincided at Paris Saint-Germain.
Back then, Emery identified Motta as a manager-in-the-making, endorsing his post-retirement appointment as PSG's under-19 coach and noting the forthright dressing-room voice of the former Barcelona, Inter and Italy midfielder. They were not always in agreement. On retiring at PSG, Motta spoke publicly of Emery's “wanting to control everything” as a barrier to players “being leaders and expressing themselves and taking responsibility”. In his early days in charge of the under-19s, he put on record that left-field idea of the 2-7-2 formation, prompting raised eyebrows and some giggles before Motta could explain that he meant his chalkboard arrangement of players, goalkeeper included, should be read vertically, left-middle-right, not, as is convention, as an innumerate description of two in defence, seven in midfield, two in attack.
In three full seasons on Serie A touchlines, with Spezia and then as low-budget alchemist at Bologna, Motta proved himself the real deal, neither zany nor excessively conformist. Juventus saw a young coach, 42, tailored for the rebranding of a scandal-hit institution and for the major rejuvenation of the so-called Old Lady. This is a Juventus whose most recent Champions League line-up, for the 1-1 draw with Lille, had an average age nearly six years younger than the Juve side who, when the club were last playing in the European Cup, in 2022-23, lost to Maccabi Haifa on the way to a group phase exit.
Right now, Motta has to be pragmatic. The midfield overload at Milan was largely motivated by the absence, with fitness problems, of his No9, Dusan Vlahovic, who is doubtful for Villa Park, and of Arkadiusz Milik, the back-up centre forward who, along with González, is out until at least next month. The
Emery with Motta, who will be his opposite number in the Villa Park dugout on Wednesday, during their time together with PSG when the Juventus coach was still a player left back Juan Cabral has meanwhile joined Bremer among the long-term injured. At full-strength, Motta's Juventus may have a domestic trophy in them. At threadbare, he is left to talk up the character they've shown in adversity and through several 0-0 draws.”
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Ian Hawkey in The Times today. Doesn’t sound like it’s gone to plan for Dougie.
“Juventus went to the San Siro and lined up with six midfielders ... they've shown in adversity and through several 0-0 draws.”
All nicely sweating up to a 5-5 draw, then.
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Interesting article but don't be a cvnt by quoting it all.
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Feel sorry for Dougie, sad for him that it hasn't worked out for him. I am surprised he has flopped there
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I'm really looking forward to this game I just hope we beat them.
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Sams Darren. A win over juventus really could kick start our season
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I dug out my 1983 Juventus programme the other day to show my son. The programme cost 42p and the ticket was £4.50 - for a European Cup 1/4 final.
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When you look at that Juventus side from 1983, how did they not win the European Cup that season after they beat us.
That is the best away side I have seen in my time going to Villa, full of world class players.
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When you look at that Juventus side from 1983, how did they not win the European Cup that season after they beat us.
That is the best away side I have seen in my time going to Villa, full of world class players.
Essentially it was the Italian 1982 World Cup winning team with Platini and Boniek bolted on.
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When you look at that Juventus side from 1983, how did they not win the European Cup that season after they beat us.
That is the best away side I have seen in my time going to Villa, full of world class players.
If I remember correctly they lost to Hamburg who scored with the one shot they had.
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When you look at that Juventus side from 1983, how did they not win the European Cup that season after they beat us.
That is the best away side I have seen in my time going to Villa, full of world class players.
Essentially it was the Italian 1982 World Cup winning team with Platini and Boniek bolted on.
It was, and I'd agree, the best team I have have ever seen in the flesh at VP. And we gave 'em a game!! Sid and Gary Shaw were superb.
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Agreed, what a team Juve had in 83. If I remember there were several stabbings before or after the game.
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No Villa Park return for Douglas Luiz tomorrow - he's not included in Juventus' squad. Neither is Dušan Vlahović.
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-------- Martinez ---------
Cash Konsa Mings Digne
--- Kamara - Tielemans --
McGinn ------------ Rogers
-- Watkins -- Bailey ----
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Juventus have only named 14 outfield players in their traveling squad for tomorrow and no Doug. No Vlahovic is a big plus also.
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A week in Rio, second half in Leblon. Then onto Sao Paolo. Cheers for the tips.
Now, I do believe BV knows some interesting places in SP for a young man to visit👌🏽
You must be referring to the Italian restaurant* where we had lunch with the rest of the Cayman lads before heading to Vaca Véia down the street. https://www.duecuochi.com.br/itaim-bibi/ https://vacaveia.com.br
*I'd highly recommend it for any visitor to São Paulo. Probably the best Italian food I've eaten, and a nice area to stroll around.
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Ezri Konsa and Boubacar Kamara return to #AVFC's squad for the game against Juventus. Jacob Ramsey and Amadou Onana remain unavailable.
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Ezri Konsa and Boubacar Kamara return to #AVFC's squad for the game against Juventus. Jacob Ramsey and Amadou Onana remain unavailable.
Thanks. Thats wonderful news. Feeling abit optimistic hearing that vlahovic is also out.
Come on boys lets do this and get back to winning ways
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hope Kamara starts .
Villa will win this as long as we dont get any corners :)
1 - 0
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hope Kamara starts .
Villa will win this as long as we dont get any corners :)
1 - 0
[/quote
Probably best to knock them straight out for a throw in by the corner flag?
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--snip--
Douglas Luiz, it was supposed, could fulfil many of the tasks previously assigned to Paul Pogba, whose positive drug test last season terminated his relationship with Juventus. He'd be an all-round galvaniser who would win the ball and expertly deliver it to the flair, wide players such as Timothy Weah, the newcomers Chico Conceição and Nico González, and the Turkish prodigy Kenan Yildiz. Here was a midfielder who had helped to transform Villa into a club ready for elite European combat, a player whose international career had been revived, and who, at 26, seemed to be peaking.
Douglas Luiz was also an opportunity, a sale Villa felt obliged to make to comply with Premier League Profitability and Sustainability Rules (PRS). Having complained long and loud about how PSR is formulated, Villa ended up doing the deal with a club who themselves spent last season serving a ban from Uefa tournaments for having breached Financial Fair Play (FFP).
Deal done, Villa were promptly pitted directly against the former FFP felons in Uefa's principal competition. To this catalogue of ironies, January may yet add another. So alarmed are Juventus by their extensive injury list that winter offers for Douglas Luiz will be listened to if his outbound transfer could raise enough in funds for a new centre back.
--snip--
DC, Barrenechea and (maybe) some cash to bring back Dougie ?
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I've edited this down from a piece in The Athletic:
Weston McKennie has been left out of Juventus’ squad for their Champions League tie against Aston Villa on Wednesday. He played 80 minutes in Juve’s goalless draw with Milan on Saturday but will not travel to Birmingham with the rest of Thiago Motta’s squad.
He joins Dusan Vlahovic, Arkadiusz Milik and Arthur Melo in missing the trip to Villa Park. McKennie’s USMNT team-mate Timothy Weah has been included as one of four forwards.
Douglas Luiz has missed Juventus’ past five Serie A games through injury and has not recovered in time to face his former side.
Meanwhile, defender Juan Cabal is set for an extended period on the sidelines after having an operation on Tuesday to repair the anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) injury to his left knee sustained in training before Colombia’s World Cup qualifiers against Uruguay and Ecuador.
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--snip--
Douglas Luiz, it was supposed, could fulfil many of the tasks previously assigned to Paul Pogba, whose positive drug test last season terminated his relationship with Juventus. He'd be an all-round galvaniser who would win the ball and expertly deliver it to the flair, wide players such as Timothy Weah, the newcomers Chico Conceição and Nico González, and the Turkish prodigy Kenan Yildiz. Here was a midfielder who had helped to transform Villa into a club ready for elite European combat, a player whose international career had been revived, and who, at 26, seemed to be peaking.
Douglas Luiz was also an opportunity, a sale Villa felt obliged to make to comply with Premier League Profitability and Sustainability Rules (PRS). Having complained long and loud about how PSR is formulated, Villa ended up doing the deal with a club who themselves spent last season serving a ban from Uefa tournaments for having breached Financial Fair Play (FFP).
Deal done, Villa were promptly pitted directly against the former FFP felons in Uefa's principal competition. To this catalogue of ironies, January may yet add another. So alarmed are Juventus by their extensive injury list that winter offers for Douglas Luiz will be listened to if his outbound transfer could raise enough in funds for a new centre back.
--snip--
DC, Barrenechea and (maybe) some cash to bring back Dougie ?
If he is available on loan with option to buy i would take him back in a heart beat.
Dont think unai would though unfortunately
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I think DC and DL would be a fair and an equitable swap.
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hope Kamara starts .
Villa will win this as long as we dont get any corners :)
1 - 0
Probably best to knock them straight out for a throw in by the corner flag?
Is it possible to refuse corners? Failing that our taker should kick it into row z giving defence time to reposition🤔
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I think DC and DL would be a fair and an equitable swap.
Particularly with Cabal long-term injured, Juve are after a CB.
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I expect another night of European glory. Onwards and upwards!
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Don’t let injuries to be an excuse for us. Juventus have so many out that I’m expecting a reasonably easy victory. Saw the Juventus team bus near Broad Street earlier. Probably going to their hotel.
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Ezri Konsa and Boubacar Kamara return to #AVFC's squad for the game against Juventus. Jacob Ramsey and Amadou Onana remain unavailable.
Good to have 2 back anyway. Normally Emery likes to bring players back in gradually after an injury but he has no choice here. Both have to start. Big choice is at LCB, Id go with Mings but think Emery will go with Torres. Id also drop Rogers and push Tielemans further forward, I think Emery might go with that one. No harm to Rogers available off the bench.
----------Martinez
Cash, Konsa, Mings, Digne
Kamara, Barkley
Bailey, Tielemans, McGinn
---------Watkins
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As others have said, that Juventus side in 1983 was the best performance from an away side I've ever seen. Platini was simply on another level. Despite that we gave them a game.
Tomorrow will be very different, they'll sit back & wait for us to make a mistake. Hopefully we can take advantage of their injuries. It should be another great night.
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I dug out my 1983 Juventus programme the other day to show my son. The programme cost 42p and the ticket was £4.50 - for a European Cup 1/4 final.
And i think i earned £28 per week then
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I dug out my 1983 Juventus programme the other day to show my son. The programme cost 42p and the ticket was £4.50 - for a European Cup 1/4 final.
And i think i earned £28 per week then
Even so, if you adjust £4 in 1983 for inflation, it would be £13 today. My ticket for tomorrow cost £90
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I dug out my 1983 Juventus programme the other day to show my son. The programme cost 42p and the ticket was £4.50 - for a European Cup 1/4 final.
And i think i earned £28 per week then
That seems a particularly low wage for 1983.
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I dug out my 1983 Juventus programme the other day to show my son. The programme cost 42p and the ticket was £4.50 - for a European Cup 1/4 final.
And i think i earned £28 per week then
That seems a particularly low wage for 1983.
Sounds like YTS wages which were £25?
They shot up to £27.50 after 6 months if my memory is correct!
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Martinez
Cash
Konsa
Torres
Maatsen
McGinn
Kamara
Tielemans
Bailey
Rogers
Watkins
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(https://i.ibb.co/55hNqMD/Juve-Programmes.jpg) (https://ibb.co/55hNqMD)
Found my home and away Juve programmes from 1983. I remember it constantly raining the whole time in Turin. Mixed reception from the locals too!
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Martinez
Cash
Konsa
Torres
Maatsen
McGinn
Kamara
Tielemans
Bailey
Rogers
Watkins
Gets my vote.
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Ezri Konsa and Boubacar Kamara return to #AVFC's squad for the game against Juventus. Jacob Ramsey and Amadou Onana remain unavailable.
Good to have 2 back anyway. Normally Emery likes to bring players back in gradually after an injury but he has no choice here. Both have to start. Big choice is at LCB, Id go with Mings but think Emery will go with Torres. Id also drop Rogers and push Tielemans further forward, I think Emery might go with that one. No harm to Rogers available off the bench.
----------Martinez
Cash, Konsa, Mings, Digne
Kamara, Barkley
Bailey, Tielemans, McGinn
---------Watkins
I like this. Torres rested and Rogers both who have underwhelmed of late . The strogest CB axis of Konsa/Mings reinstated
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Ezri Konsa and Boubacar Kamara return to #AVFC's squad for the game against Juventus. Jacob Ramsey and Amadou Onana remain unavailable.
Good to have 2 back anyway. Normally Emery likes to bring players back in gradually after an injury but he has no choice here. Both have to start. Big choice is at LCB, Id go with Mings but think Emery will go with Torres. Id also drop Rogers and push Tielemans further forward, I think Emery might go with that one. No harm to Rogers available off the bench.
----------Martinez
Cash, Konsa, Mings, Digne
Kamara, Barkley
Bailey, Tielemans, McGinn
---------Watkins
I like this. Torres rested and Rogers both who have underwhelmed of late . The strogest CB axis of Konsa/Mings reinstated
Barkley, even Kamara wouldn’t be able to cover his lack of defensive ability.
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Wasn't Barkley supposed to be the defensive lynchpin at Luton last year? He's been good on the ball for us this season so far, but not showing much of the defensive nous you'd think would be vital for playing such a position.
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I realise it's still early doors but I have been languishing in Good Hope for a week now with a severe bladder and kidney infection with an added dose of Sepsis so am wondering if anyone had any trickles they would be willing to share. TIA
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Wasn't Barkley supposed to be the defensive lynchpin at Luton last year? He's been good on the ball for us this season so far, but not showing much of the defensive nous you'd think would be vital for playing such a position.
He was more a link defence to attack and showed his ability to receive the ball deep, without the ball he is on a level with Conor Hourihane.
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I realise it's still early doors but I have been languishing in Good Hope for a week now with a severe bladder and kidney infection with an added dose of Sepsis so am wondering if anyone had any trickles they would be willing to share. TIA
blimey, get well soon pal
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Sorry one and all just realised I'm a day early and it's still actually Tuesday and not Wednesday. It's been a long week 😴
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I realise it's still early doors but I have been languishing in Good Hope for a week now with a severe bladder and kidney infection with an added dose of Sepsis so am wondering if anyone had any trickles they would be willing to share. TIA
Just as long as you don't share any of your trickles.:o
Someone on the match thread should be able to send you a link tomorrow and hopefully a Villa win will make you feel better.
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Wasn't Barkley supposed to be the defensive lynchpin at Luton last year?
Yes, you get relegated when Ross is defensive lynchpin.
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We can go 4 points clear of citeh if we win tomorrow. Thats got to be a incentive just for pure bants
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Right boys, win tomorrow please, back up to 4th in the League and build the confidence before Leipzig.
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Right boys, win tomorrow please, back up to 4th in the League and build the confidence before Leipzig.
Yeah that leipzig ones going to be tough so ideally we need a win tomorrow if we can get back to where we know we can be
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Demi any reason why Leipzig is going to be tough?
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Leipzig looked horrific when they played Celtic the other week
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Right boys, win tomorrow please, back up to 4th in the League and build the confidence before Leipzig.
Yeah that leipzig ones going to be tough so ideally we need a win tomorrow if we can get back to where we know we can be
Lost 5 out of 5 so far....
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Demi any reason why Leipzig is going to be tough?
Just they looked really good against liverpool and were unlucky to lose. The pre season game we can't really judge as wss inly a friendly even if we lost. Also a much tougher away game than brugges. If we play anywhere as bad as that it will be a long night. Especially with a quality player like sesko against you
But then saying that i watched them vs celtic and they were gash. If they play like that we are more than capable of winning.
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Wasn't Barkley supposed to be the defensive lynchpin at Luton last year? He's been good on the ball for us this season so far, but not showing much of the defensive nous you'd think would be vital for playing such a position.
He was more a link defence to attack and showed his ability to receive the ball deep, without the ball he is on a level with Conor Hourihane.
Tielemans increasingly looks the same. Barks has a bit more about him on the ball in general play than CH but we can't play them together in the PL again.
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Without one of Kamara or Onana, we look pretty ropey out of possession.
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Without one of Kamara or Onana, we look pretty ropey out of possession.
We do, but we shouldn't. One of our best performances was Arsenal away last year and McGinn and Tielemans were the holding midfield. I think Emery will fix it, but I think he is also frustrated at players not playing how he wants right now.
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Tomorrow will be very different, they'll sit back & wait for us to make a mistake. Hopefully we can take advantage of their injuries. It should be another great night.
I have already seen Motta's whiteboard. It just states, 'Wait for the Villa corner'.
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Tomorrow will be very different, they'll sit back & wait for us to make a mistake. Hopefully we can take advantage of their injuries. It should be another great night.
I have already seen Motta's whiteboard. It just states, 'Wait for the Villa corner'.
Haha. Indeed. I think my head will explode if we concede another one of those goals.
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I have a ticket for this. I’m currently very unwell though and can’t make it. What are my options with this? Not trying to flog it for a profit. All my ‘Villa’ mates are inside the ground.
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I have a ticket for this. I’m currently very unwell though and can’t make it. What are my options with this? Not trying to flog it for a profit. All my ‘Villa’ mates are inside the ground.
They're there early aren't they? 😀
Not sure, but get well soon.
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It would be really nice if this were a catalyst to find our mojo again.
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19 tickets left. 1 GA in B7 and 18 GA+ and Corporate dotted about. Only two sets of which have seats together.
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I dug out my 1983 Juventus programme the other day to show my son. The programme cost 42p and the ticket was £4.50 - for a European Cup 1/4 final.
And i think i earned £28 per week then
Even so, if you adjust £4 in 1983 for inflation, it would be £13 today. My ticket for tomorrow cost £90
If you take £4 as a % of £28 it was 14% of my weekly wage for that ticket.
Google search comes up with average UK weekly wage today at £681.70 (more for London)
14% of that average is £95.34
Is that not relative?*
*i know the cost of everything else like household bills etc is ridiculously high to add more pressure to weekly incomes.
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Average weekly wage in 1983 was over £140 so I think your working out is flawed. You’re not seriously trying to suggest that £90 for a ticket today is the equivalent of £4 in 1983?
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COYVB's , getting excited now , massive game and what an opportunity to more or less qualify .
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Leaving at 1 from West Wales. Hopefully the re set we need against Juve. Will be difficult as they don't concede many goals.
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A reverse of the 1983 score line will do for me!
Gotta keep Platini and Boniek quiet though!
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I have a ticket for this. I’m currently very unwell though and can’t make it. What are my options with this? Not trying to flog it for a profit. All my ‘Villa’ mates are inside the ground.
I think you can forward your ticket via email but just once. I'm not 100% sure. Gone are the days when you could pass your ticket on to family or friends to use when your ill .Another little gem brought in by Heck.
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Bologna didn't concede many goals until they came to Villa Park. FTF.
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I have a ticket for this. I’m currently very unwell though and can’t make it. What are my options with this? Not trying to flog it for a profit. All my ‘Villa’ mates are inside the ground.
I think you can forward your ticket via email but just once. I'm not 100% sure. Gone are the days when you could pass your ticket on to family or friends to use when your ill .Another little gem brought in by Heck.
Juve tickets have both print at home and download options.
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His Master's Voice?
Motta's press conference straight from the Emery script: we'll go out there with great humility, determined to do our work, respecting our opponent, etc.
Just missing "in our way, connecting with our supporters".
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Emery managed him didn't he?
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One of our crew duplicated his ticket transaction for tonight. 5 tickets going, M5. PM if any interest.
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Anyone training it up from London, they've cancelled all the trains from Euston, my son is just scrambling across to Marylebone to get the rattler to Snow Hill
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Anyone training it up from London, they've cancelled all the trains from Euston, my son is just scrambling across to Marylebone to get the rattler to Snow Hill
Death on the line apparently.
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Yeah, at Bletchley. The flooding at Northampton compounding things.
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Do match attendees in the Upper North still have to wait an age to get in? Trying to decide how long I can stop in The Power League before queuing up.
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Anyone training it up from London, they've cancelled all the trains from Euston, my son is just scrambling across to Marylebone to get the rattler to Snow Hill
Death on the line apparently.
Bletchley Cark.
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Do match attendees in the Upper North still have to wait an age to get in? Trying to decide how long I can stop in The Power League before queuing up.
Was in their for the Bologna game and it took about 15 mins.
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Anyone training it up from London, they've cancelled all the trains from Euston, my son is just scrambling across to Marylebone to get the rattler to Snow Hill
Man thats sucks thats route i would have taken if i was going but had to go on office today. Hope you manage to get in ok Duncan
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Do match attendees in the Upper North still have to wait an age to get in? Trying to decide how long I can stop in The Power League before queuing up.
Was in their for the Bologna game and it took about 15 mins.
Reassuring, thank you.
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Konsa on bench, Kamara in the team
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Konsa on bench, Kamara in the team
Thanks for early update great to see kamara starting!
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Yuk! Richard Wilford will be commentating on WM: snide Bluenose ****! >:(
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Face on a thumb headed nose twat. He should be commentating on them playing Sutton Park not Champions League games.