Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: SaddVillan on April 18, 2024, 12:51:06 PM
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68844583
The Greedy6 get their way.
The game is well and truly gone.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68844583
The Greedy6 get their way.
The game is well and truly gone.
It could be really damaging for teams in lower divisions as a home draw against a team in a higher division with no chance of a replay at their ground means potentially missing out on a big payday.
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"The fourth round will be played in an extended window from Friday to Wednesday."
yawn. fa dragging it out for as much tv money as possible.
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Just tell the Greedy6 to fuck off to their Super League and to not come back.
Forever.
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Does this increase or decrease our chances of ever bastard well winning the bloody thing?
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The final has been fucked about with again and will now take place on the second last weekend of the season, on the Sat with every other match moved to the Sunday of that weekend.
Seeding will be next.
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Does this increase or decrease our chances of ever bastard well winning the bloody thing?
We’ll achieve that when it’s regarded as at the same level as the league cup which itself will be consigned to history.
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Think of some of the games that would never have happened without replays.
1969 Southampton in front of 59k
1974 Sammy Morgan v Bob Wilson
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The final has been fucked about with again and will now take place on the second last weekend of the season, on the Sat with every other match moved to the Sunday of that weekend.
Seeding will be next.
I doubt seeding will happen, because I don’t think the “big” clubs care enough.
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To help smaller clubs perhaps the lowest placed team should always be at home if they draw a premier league club?
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To help smaller clubs perhaps the lowest placed team should always be at home if they draw a premier league club?
That doesn't really help though, does it? Not financially, anyway.
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To help smaller clubs perhaps the lowest placed team should always be at home if they draw a premier league club?
I think this is what they do in some cups on the continent up until later rounds
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To help smaller clubs perhaps the lowest placed team should always be at home if they draw a premier league club?
Lower clubs would definitely want to be away if they drew one of the big clubs. The financial benefits of such a draw are huge.
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The glory of the Cup was the unpredictable nature of the draw, completely open, the replay story (multiple on the old days). Once you start Gerrymandering the draw it will lose most of it's kudos.
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The glory of the Cup was the unpredictable nature of the draw, completely open, the replay story (multiple on the old days). Once you start Gerrymandering the draw it will lose most of it's kudos.
Think that horse bolted a long time ago.
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Degradation of a great cup competition via taking away the chance of a once in a lifetime opportunity for many lower league players.
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I’ve had fifteen years to get used to it, but the 5:30 kick off time on cup final day still irritates me.
Scrapping replays for hundreds of clubs because six or seven have extra European games absolutely stinks.
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Unfortunately it has long stopped been taken seriously by most PL clubs, including ours to be honest. They only take it seriously when they get to the Semis. And even then only over the past 30 years only 3 teams have won it that arent Man Utd, Liverpool, Man City, Arsenal or Chelease.
I would be all four the forth UCL spot going to the FA Cup winner - give it some of its estieem back. Apart from this season obvs.
As well as keeping replays, I also think they should have get rid of VAR, reintroduce away goals rule (apart from tonight obvs) and make the referees wear black.
It appears I have become old and grumpy at change.
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To repeat what I've said too many times before: the FA had the greatest, most loved domestic cup competition on the planet and then decides to kill it by a thousand cuts. And for what? The behest of a handful of clubs who in any event have in recent times invariably made up most, if not all, of the semi-final line-up
Sport - and football in particular - is nothing without tradition, romance and, for those who support clubs far smaller than ours, the dream of that once-in-a-lifetime giant-killing or trip to Old Trafford, Anfield et al.
Whilst I've never witnessed us win it, I'm grateful that at least I experienced the Cup when it was still everything that made it special.
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Times change, but they make such a song and dance about the "Magic of the Cup" that surely replays are a massive part of that? If your ESL clubs can't be arsed with replays, just carry on putting reserve sides out, and if they get beaten by a minnow, so be it.
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I’ve had fifteen years to get used to it, but the 5:30 kick off time on cup final day still irritates me.
Scrapping replays for hundreds of clubs because six or seven have extra European games absolutely stinks.
I don’t know about it stinking but Man City can put out two very good sides quite easily and their treble last season is proof to that. Competitions are competitions in their own right. They’re not designed around the whim of the more successful clubs and are not designed in a way that the most successful wins all of them.
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I’ve had fifteen years to get used to it, but the 5:30 kick off time on cup final day still irritates me.
Scrapping replays for hundreds of clubs because six or seven have extra European games absolutely stinks.
I don’t know about it stinking but Man City can put out two very good sides quite easily and their treble last season is proof to that. Competitions are competitions in their own right. They’re not designed around the whim of the more successful clubs and are not designed in a way that the most successful wins all of them.
In its current format, the FA Cup has no replays from the fifth round onwards, but the FA says the move to eliminate them from an earlier stage has been made "in light of changes to the calendar driven by the expanded Uefa competitions".
Who do you think that most pertains to?
The replays have been scrapped because the premier league clearly wanted it that way.
Is this a coincidence?
The agreement also sees the Premier League increasing its funding to grassroots football, with an additional £33m being provided.
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What is this 'FA Cup' you speak of?
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The final has been fucked about with again and will now take place on the second last weekend of the season, on the Sat with every other match moved to the Sunday of that weekend.
Seeding will be next.
No chance how will manure draw us with that?
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I’ve had fifteen years to get used to it, but the 5:30 kick off time on cup final day still irritates me.
Scrapping replays for hundreds of clubs because six or seven have extra European games absolutely stinks.
I heard Gary Lineker on some podcast a few years ago saying players preferred the 5:30 kick off because it's not as hot then.
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That's the price of progress. Toss everything in the bin in pursuit of winning but when that happens, what's left?
Let's stay at Villa Park
(winking thing)
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That's the price of progress profit. Toss everything in the bin in pursuit of winning but when that happens, what's left?
Let's stay at Villa Park
(winking thing)
FTFY
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Scrapping replays will allow more time for glamorous mid season friendlies in Saudi.
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To help smaller clubs perhaps the lowest placed team should always be at home if they draw a premier league club?
If they going to implement this then the pl clubs should give all their money to the league one two and below clubs
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To help smaller clubs perhaps the lowest placed team should always be at home if they draw a premier league club?
If they going to implement this then the pl clubs should give all their money to the league one two and below clubs
A lot do. We did with Barrow for example
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Just a shame they can't leave the greatest domestic cup competition in the world alone.
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UEFA have always been jealous that the greatest cup competition in the world wasn't theirs. Hence the long term aim of overshadowing it via the moving of the CL final to a Sat and increasing (for money as well) the amount of European games knowing full well that this impacts our domestic calendar.
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EFL clubs not consulted so have quite rightly kicked-off about this!
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EFL and FA trying to negotiate better cut of the TV money in exchange for ending replays to reduce games , then you hear that agents took over £400 million in fees last year from the Premier League what a mess and imbalanced there is
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It would serve the FA right if all teams from the championship and below boycotted it next season.
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With no possibility of a replay, I can see lower league clubs sacrificing home advantage to Premier League clubs as it's the only way they maximise revenue.
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Pretty sure they can't do that any more. And if the home ground can't stage a game for safety reasons it goes to a neutral ground close to the home side.
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There's been a number of official responses from clubs along these lines
Tranmere Rovers condemn the disgraceful decision taken by The FA and the Premier League to change the format of the FA Cup, including the scrapping of replays.
There was no consultation with Football League clubs, National League clubs or grassroots clubs to whom the competition represents not only their best opportunity to create life-long memories for supporters but also a hugely important source of income. We also understand that FA Council members were not consulted about the changes.
The decision, and the way it was taken, demonstrate a total lack of respect for the football pyramid and its fans. Football belongs to all of us and decisions should not be taken in back room deals in which only the very wealthiest clubs are allowed to participate. It is yet another eloquent example of the 19th-century governance that means that football simply cannot regulate itself and needs the Independent Football Regulator to have real teeth.
We condemn the changes wholeheartedly and urge The FA to suspend them immediately until all stakeholders in the game are properly consulted.
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If a club outside the top two divisions is drawn at home to a PL team, give them the option to switch it. Won't that solve the issue?
And I hope Cov go on to win it this year.
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Grrrr.
In ‘67 it took three games for Forest to beat Swindon in the fifth round. Some places in Swindon closed at lunchtime to give their supporters time to get to Villa Park for that second replay. The attendance was a tad under 53,000.
The Holte was given to Forest, Witton End to Swindon. The atmosphere was magical, Forest were a big team with a bunch of top players (John Barnwell and Joe Baker scored) as they ran out 3-0, but amazing stuff from Swindon (and their finances) to take them so far.
I saw very little of the game as at a little over five feet and the rammed Holte, I stood little chance. There was a lot of surging, and my feet regularly lost contact with the ground, but the Forest fans took care of me.
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What was the craic with that one - second replays were played at neutral grounds? Did we host many of those?!
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Just a shame they can't leave the greatest domestic cup competition in the world alone.
Gone forever as we know it I'm afraid.
Maybe they should rename it The F*** Cup because its exactly whats happened to this piece of football history.
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Legohead talking absolute garbage again:
“Arsenal manager Mikel Arteta said his responsibility is to "protect our players".
"In the last two seasons, they have played with no breaks," Arteta said. "How they will have to play in the next two years, it's not healthy.”
Arsenal have been knocked out in the 3rd round for the past two season.
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I appreciate that we will be one of them next season, but this new ruling only helps the clubs in European action. What, 7 clubs? Bring back replays, let the smaller clubs earn some money. The only other way is perhaps to ask the clubs to swap the fixture to the bigger ground, if it suits the smaller team financially and they wish to do it.
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On the flip side it may allow for more upsets. Let's say it's Walsall v Man U. Finishes 1-1 at Bescott which isn't impossible. Walsall have far more chance of winning a shootout than they do a replay at OT.
I'll add that i'd prefer replays, multiple replays if required. But that's because i'm old and I grew up with them.
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Surely this is what squads are for? Tiredness is a factor in every season, but it's up to clubs to manage it.
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Fatigue and tiredness of players is generally a smokescreen to cover up for the deficiencies of managers and Arteta is a perfect example.
Like Wenger before him, he's disingenuous and has no issue with the amount of games until they start losing then it's a huge issue.
An abdication of responsibility and culpability to deflect from their own incompetence. Wankers.
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I think PL clubs fans should all unite against this.
I know we have europe but ffs protect the smaller clubs. They need the revenue bad. I think this decision sucks
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It's a dump on the majority of clubs in the football pyramid.
The so called big clubs didn't complain recently when UEFA announced even more games would be played in the Chapions League from next season.
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I like how they constantly wobble on about the cup being their prestigious and showpiece event then still have the semi finals at Wembley.
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It doesn't help that there's multiple two-week shutdowns for internationals throughout the season.
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More games mean more money and There is a battle between FIFA UEFA and the domestic authorities for control of the football calendar.FIFA expanding the WC and the World Club competition UEFA with the Champions League and International competitions.
The domestic cups have no chance. This is where a Government regulator could get involved but don’t hold your breath.
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EFL clubs not consulted so have quite rightly kicked-off about this!
That's the worst thing about it for me. I've thought for a while now that replays have become a bit outdated and it was just a matter of time before they were scrapped.
I think the way it has been done with the EFL clubs seemingly not consulted is the worst part though rather than the decision itself.
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This is all about maximising revenue in competitions involving the biggest clubs. Expanded Champions League, World Club Cup and money spinning tours to far flung countries all in the name of promoting brands and taking the TV money.
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I like to see Extra time scrapped in both domestic and european competitions
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Bring the game time down to thirty minutes each half.
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Whatever happens with this Golden Goal?
That was a thing once wasn’t it?
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Whatever happens with this Golden Goal?
That was a thing once wasn’t it?
Not forgetting the Silver Goal, which lasted even less time than its predecessor.
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Golden Goal and Silver Goal were both terrible.
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There was a time when some pretty big games finished up being decided with a toss of a coin.
1965..Liverpool beat Cologne in a European Cup quarter final
1968.. Italy beat the USSR in a European Championship semi final and went on to win the tournament.
1969...Celtic beat Benfica in a 2nd round European Cup game and went all the way to the final.
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60 minute games with the clock stopped when the ball goes out of play. The Americans suggested it 30 years ago and we all baulked.
But I get nervous about teams wasting time when we need a goal. This is the only fair way.
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There was always the option to do the penalty shoot out before the game itself.
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There was a time when some pretty big games finished up being decided with a toss of a coin.
1965..Liverpool beat Cologne in a European Cup quarter final
1968.. Italy beat the USSR in a European Championship semi final and went on to win the tournament.
1969...Celtic beat Benfica in a 2nd round European Cup game and went all the way to the final.
That’s incredible !
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There was the league cup ties in the 70s perhaps first one Villa won played everton about 3 or 4 times on replays ?
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The 1977 Football League Cup Final was played between Aston Villa and Everton and required three games to decide the winner, the only time this has happened in the League Cup!
That’s the one !
anyone care to share about the Chris Nicol 40 yard screamer ?
Was it like a Duran effort or more Petrov from the half way line ?
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FA Cup games could become 5 a side matches on a reduced size pitch.
Not only does this give greater scope for squad rotation but you could have hospitality dining Al Fresco style on the unused parts of the pitch. I appreciate this might not be so practical for 3rd round games in early January, so lets just make it a summer tournament.
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Here you go.
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The 1977 Football League Cup Final was played between Aston Villa and Everton and required three games to decide the winner, the only time this has happened in the League Cup!
That’s the one !
anyone care to share about the Chris Nicol 40 yard screamer ?
Was it like a Duran effort or more Petrov from the half way line ?
Decide for yourself. Personally I never tire of seeing this goal.
https://youtu.be/Qpo6aHvPBYo?feature=shared
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FA Cup games could become 5 a side matches on a reduced size pitch.
Not only does this give greater scope for squad rotation but you could have hospitality dining Al Fresco style on the unused parts of the pitch. I appreciate this might not be so practical for 3rd round games in early January, so lets just make it a summer tournament.
Perhaps the unused subs could be used as waiters, Chris Heck is asking.
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Here you go.
Thank You. CDb That is fabulous! Great one !
And Exeter 77 thank you.
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60 minute games with the clock stopped when the ball goes out of play. The Americans suggested it 30 years ago and we all baulked.
But I get nervous about teams wasting time when we need a goal. This is the only fair way.
Wenger as Chief of Fifa Football development made several suggestions in 2020 like that of the countdown clock where 30 minutes a half and clock stoppages occur when ball out of play.
He also said:
"I would also like to change the throw-in rule: five minutes before the end, a throw-in for you should be an advantage, but in these situations you are facing 10 outfield players in play, whilst you only have nine. Stats show that in eight out of 10 of those throw-in situations, you lose the ball. In your half of the pitch, you should have the possibility to take a kick instead."
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Fascinating.
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Fascinating.
Rhythm
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I agree with Wenger. Kick-ins from the sidelines make sense. Why were throw-ins ever even a thing?
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Kick ins would be a terrible idea, like most things that come out of Wegner's mouth. Not sure why he's been chosen for this sort of thing either, in all his years managing the fucker never saw anything.
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Yes, kick-ins would be absolutely shite. The only changes I'd make to throw ins would be:
1. Award a foul throw when a player tries to advance yards. If his team are winning and you send him back, thus wasting more time, that's not exactly a punishment.
2. Actually award foul throws, you twats.
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Kick-ins now happen at U9 level and under. No headers allowed either.
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Yes, kick-ins would be absolutely shite. The only changes I'd make to throw ins would be:
1. Award a foul throw when a player tries to advance yards. If his team are winning and you send him back, thus wasting more time, that's not exactly a punishment.
2. Actually award foul throws, you twats.
Re the awarding of throw-ins being awarded to the opposition for it being taken from the wrong place. This was introduced years ago when I was still refereeing and as far as I know still exists, I could well be wrong. It initially caused chaos and then basically ignored as most referee's knew it would.
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60 minute games with the clock stopped when the ball goes out of play. The Americans suggested it 30 years ago and we all baulked.
But I get nervous about teams wasting time when we need a goal. This is the only fair way.
Wenger.... lso said:
"I would also like to change the throw-in rule: five minutes before the end, a throw-in for you should be an advantage, but in these situations you are facing 10 outfield players in play, whilst you only have nine. Stats show that in eight out of 10 of those throw-in situations, you lose the ball. In your half of the pitch, you should have the possibility to take a kick instead."
If you kick it in you are still facing ten outfield players while you only have nine.
Extra time with golden goal and reducing the number of players on each team by one every five minutes would work for me. Could have the opposition nominate which of your players you have to take off as a League Cup twist.
That said, I'd imagine penalties suit us as long as we have Martinez.
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Re Kick-in. The point being if you have a throw-in within your half, you can get it 10-15 yards at most but the taker is out of any position to mark the player. With the kick, you could get it within a few yards of the oppo penalty box. Not saying I would want it, just indicating why the kicks.
Re: Taking players off. Nah, more chance of injuries to players who might have had to run around for 90 mins and now have to run even harder to mark up around the pitch.
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Re Kick-in. The point being if you have a throw-in within your half, you can get it 10-15 yards at most but the taker is out of any position to mark the player. With the kick, you could get it within a few yards of the oppo penalty box. Not saying I would want it, just indicating why the kicks.
Re: Taking players off. Nah, more chance of injuries to players who might have had to run around for 90 mins and now have to run even harder to mark up around the pitch.
I'm sure you've seen the rows and bust-ups over whose throw it is when it's uncertain. Can you just imagine the riots that would ensue if the throw-in was abolished and replaced by a kick-in where the ball could be booted fifty yards plus instead of approximately ten to fifteen, freak long throwers notwithstanding.
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Re Kick-in. The point being if you have a throw-in within your half, you can get it 10-15 yards at most but the taker is out of any position to mark the player. With the kick, you could get it within a few yards of the oppo penalty box. Not saying I would want it, just indicating why the kicks.
Re: Taking players off. Nah, more chance of injuries to players who might have had to run around for 90 mins and now have to run even harder to mark up around the pitch.
I'm sure you've seen the rows and bust-ups over whose throw it is when it's uncertain. Can you just imagine the riots that would ensue if the throw-in was abolished and replaced by a kick-in where the ball could be booted fifty yards plus instead of approximately ten to fifteen, freak long throwers notwithstanding.
Also diminishes the supposed "advantage" of a corner, when a throw-in anywhere in the final third of the pitch is exactly the same.
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Re Kick-in. The point being if you have a throw-in within your half, you can get it 10-15 yards at most but the taker is out of any position to mark the player. With the kick, you could get it within a few yards of the oppo penalty box. Not saying I would want it, just indicating why the kicks.
Re: Taking players off. Nah, more chance of injuries to players who might have had to run around for 90 mins and now have to run even harder to mark up around the pitch.
I'm sure you've seen the rows and bust-ups over whose throw it is when it's uncertain. Can you just imagine the riots that would ensue if the throw-in was abolished and replaced by a kick-in where the ball could be booted fifty yards plus instead of approximately ten to fifteen, freak long throwers notwithstanding.
Also diminishes the supposed "advantage" of a corner, when a throw-in anywhere in the final third of the pitch is exactly the same.
Isn't that why he said it would happen with a throw-in in your own half? I don't care for the idea, but I think that covers that.
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Re Kick-in. The point being if you have a throw-in within your half, you can get it 10-15 yards at most but the taker is out of any position to mark the player. With the kick, you could get it within a few yards of the oppo penalty box. Not saying I would want it, just indicating why the kicks.
Re: Taking players off. Nah, more chance of injuries to players who might have had to run around for 90 mins and now have to run even harder to mark up around the pitch.
I'm sure you've seen the rows and bust-ups over whose throw it is when it's uncertain. Can you just imagine the riots that would ensue if the throw-in was abolished and replaced by a kick-in where the ball could be booted fifty yards plus instead of approximately ten to fifteen, freak long throwers notwithstanding.
Also diminishes the supposed "advantage" of a corner, when a throw-in anywhere in the final third of the pitch is exactly the same.
Isn't that why he said it would happen with a throw-in in your own half? I don't care for the idea, but I think that covers that.
Sam Allerdyce and Tony Pullis say hello to even more chances to launch the ball into the opposition box from 70 yards away