Post by: Dave on March 02, 2024, 07:35:57 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 02, 2024, 07:35:58 PM
Post by: coreyfeldman on March 02, 2024, 07:37:03 PM
Post by: lovejoy on March 02, 2024, 07:37:28 PM
Post by: ExclDawg on March 02, 2024, 07:38:13 PM
Then after watching the ref for a few minutes, I realized they were just up to 12.
Post by: Legion on March 02, 2024, 07:38:14 PM
Post by: levico on March 02, 2024, 07:38:23 PM
Post by: Monty on March 02, 2024, 07:38:32 PM
Post by: AV84 on March 02, 2024, 07:38:40 PM
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 02, 2024, 07:38:51 PM
Phew. It’s important we learn to win in different ways.
It's even more important we learn to stop putting in a Bruce-ian second half after a great first one.
I fucking knew this would happen. We even tried it against Forest before snapping out of it.
Post by: Ian. on March 02, 2024, 07:38:57 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 02, 2024, 07:38:59 PM
Post by: Nev on March 02, 2024, 07:39:12 PM
Post by: Rigadon on March 02, 2024, 07:39:15 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on March 02, 2024, 07:39:19 PM
Post by: AV82EC on March 02, 2024, 07:39:43 PM
Lovely stuff. Onwards….
Post by: Villan82 on March 02, 2024, 07:39:52 PM
I would have taken 3-2 at 5.30pm this evening. Great to get to 55 points. 4-5 wins more from the 11 left and we should be in top four.
Post by: villadelph on March 02, 2024, 07:40:11 PM
Post by: garyellis on March 02, 2024, 07:40:19 PM
Can we ask for Oliver to never ref a game for us again?
He is a complete twat
Post by: aldridgeboy on March 02, 2024, 07:40:20 PM
At this stage of the season it’s all about the points.
And although I bought the subs were too late , they won the game. So that’s prob why Unai is the manager and I’m not.
A massive three games ahead. Let’s keep it tight in Holland , much a win against spurts and do the business in leg 2.
What a season ❤️
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on March 02, 2024, 07:40:22 PM
Post by: PaulTheVillan on March 02, 2024, 07:40:56 PM
But…. A win. On the road. I’ll take it.
Post by: Deano's Mullet on March 02, 2024, 07:40:58 PM
Post by: Holy Trinity on March 02, 2024, 07:41:14 PM
Anything but a loss to spuds next week and I think 15 point might be enough for top 4.
Post by: Villan82 on March 02, 2024, 07:41:18 PM
haha, you tried Oliver.. you crooked prick!
Investigation is required. Biased as fuck
Post by: ez on March 02, 2024, 07:41:22 PM
Post by: Beard82 on March 02, 2024, 07:41:27 PM
Win next Sunday - and well be in a great position for top 4.
We made it way to difficult for ourselves - I don't know why we didn't make changes earlier.
Thought Tim settled down and helped in midfield. Great work by Diaby - loved his celebration!
Post by: Smirker on March 02, 2024, 07:42:02 PM
Post by: manic-road on March 02, 2024, 07:43:06 PM
Post by: paul_e on March 02, 2024, 07:43:15 PM
Probably the most biased reffing performance of the season, the yellow card for Luiz is one of the softest I've ever seen and I have no idea what Mengi would've had to do to get a yellow, kicked, pushed and pulled Watkins all game and the ref just ignored it every time, fucking gerodie twat.
Post by: Stu on March 02, 2024, 07:43:21 PM
Post by: garyellis on March 02, 2024, 07:44:52 PM
A class finish from Lucas
Post by: JUAN PABLO on March 02, 2024, 07:45:14 PM
majestic first half
awful second
And I hated every minute until Luca headed that beautiful cross and I smashed my knee and knocked over red wine on the carpet . Im still shaking after that goal because thats one of the most important goals of this season.
The ref was shocking , the commentators was gagging for the Luton winner , so sucha beautiful relief has the net rattled.
Hopefully JJ is ok and lets do those spurs fuckers next week and cement this 4th .
now for a curry and a wank.
Post by: Dave on March 02, 2024, 07:45:30 PM
Post by: Grocer on March 02, 2024, 07:45:37 PM
Post by: LeonW on March 02, 2024, 07:46:11 PM
Fair play to Diaby and Digne combining to get the winner. Shows some of our bench strength to bring on some quality.
Lenglet is good on the ball and I like. Not sure about his aerial prowess.
Rodgers work off the ball not good. One or two decent moments on the ball. Shows how hard JJ works. Sure he’ll get better.
Tim not a good performance. Gave luton exactly what they wanted giving away some silly fouls in dangerous situations and breaking up the play when we were pressing. For his position he needs to get smarter.
Zaniola is just not very good.
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on March 02, 2024, 07:46:18 PM
A read of an "Other Games" thread on a Spurs forum is quite an amusing use of five minutes.Can you precis?
Post by: Somniloquism on March 02, 2024, 07:46:59 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 02, 2024, 07:47:05 PM
A read of an "Other Games" thread on a Spurs forum is quite an amusing use of five minutes.
Can you precis?
Or provide a link?
Post by: Beard82 on March 02, 2024, 07:47:13 PM
jeykl and hyde performanceMake sure you wash your hands thoroughly after the curry - thats a mistake you would only make once
majestic first half
awful second
And I hated every minute until Luca headed that beautiful cross and I smashed my knee and knocked over red wine on the carpet . Im still shaking after that goal because thats one of the most important goals of this season.
The ref was shocking , the commentators was gagging for the Luton winner , so sucha beautiful relief has the net rattled.
Hopefully JJ is ok and lets do those spurs fuckers next week and cement this 4th .
now for a curry and a wank.
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on March 02, 2024, 07:47:46 PM
Post by: tomd2103 on March 02, 2024, 07:48:15 PM
Brilliant first half awful second half, Oliver was awful as well. I hope my heart rate settles down within the next hour, that is a massive three points.
Yep. We seem to have picked up a nasty habit recently of conceding from set pieces and it looked like it was going to cost us today, but big relief to get the late winner.
Post by: Somniloquism on March 02, 2024, 07:49:10 PM
Post by: Dave on March 02, 2024, 07:49:44 PM
A read of an "Other Games" thread on a Spurs forum is quite an amusing use of five minutes.Can you precis?
Pretty much as you'd expect.
Quote
Bollocks, Watkins is really good.
Double bollocks, Villa look like they're gonna get fourth
Come on Luton!
They're gonna do it! Up the Spurs!
Only one team gonna win this!
Bugger.
Loads of calling each other fakkin' cants and still being very upset about Matty Cash.
Post by: Demitri_C on March 02, 2024, 07:49:46 PM
Confidence crucially if we lost this one going into spurs would be nerves for spurs.
As ollie just said we are too relaxed. Need to stop this as spurs will punish us worse than luton did.
Lenglet was outstanding my motd. Rodgers was very good 1st half but mot good 2nd.
Zaniolo - ergh. Awful
Post by: Paul.S on March 02, 2024, 07:49:52 PM
We do need to shore it up at the back but there’s not a prayer I’m moaning at another 3 points. This team just keep going and going.
UTV
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 02, 2024, 07:50:43 PM
Make sure you wash your hands thoroughly after the curry - thats a mistake you would only make once
Yep, never go for a p!ss just after chopping Scotch bonnet peppers without thoroughly washing your hands.
Post by: Richard E on March 02, 2024, 07:51:10 PM
Post by: Bad English on March 02, 2024, 07:51:13 PM
Post by: PhilVill on March 02, 2024, 07:52:44 PM
Post by: DB on March 02, 2024, 07:52:55 PM
Beat Spuds and we go 8 points clear and they have win their game in hand.
Post by: Richard E on March 02, 2024, 07:53:46 PM
Game of two halves; we won.
We won by the same margin as Arsenal and Man City did, and got a better result there than Liverpool. Job done.
Post by: Gareth on March 02, 2024, 07:54:30 PM
Subs did their job, Diaby & Digne obv, Tim walked a tightrope with that idiot Oliver but he bought some more physicality that was missing for most of the 2nd half…missed Kamara tonight dropping into that back line when the heat was on.
Post by: Exeter 77 on March 02, 2024, 07:55:05 PM
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 02, 2024, 07:55:06 PM
Post by: Nev on March 02, 2024, 07:56:37 PM
Not even worthy of my early season comparison to Ian Olney.
Post by: Olof's Beard on March 02, 2024, 07:57:17 PM
We were so good at controlling games at the back end of last season and seem to have lost a bit of nous in that regard this season. Fair fucks to Diaby and Digne for coming up with a winning goal out of nothing.
All that said, 55 points from 27 games is just ridiculous and we only need a few more wins to better the best totals Little, Gregory and O'Neill could muster in our better years - and we have 11 games to get them. A win next week would be huge, let's hope we get it.
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 02, 2024, 07:57:35 PM
That teaches me the lesson of talking about GD at half time and thinking the game was done and dusted.
We could easily have lost that in the last 15 minutes and then who knows where our season would've headed.
Still we dug in and another crucial late away win with our left back gambling on a cross at the back post. Cracking ball in from Diaby, that's the sort of quality you need from someone who cost 50m.
Hopefully Pau is fine for Spurs as we need him back in to keep the composure in the team as there was little of that once Luton won a few set pieces early in the second.
Post by: Drummond on March 02, 2024, 07:57:47 PM
Top 5 for sure now.
Post by: passport1 on March 02, 2024, 07:58:25 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on March 02, 2024, 07:58:43 PM
Post by: john2710 on March 02, 2024, 07:59:32 PM
Ultimately we deserved it for that first half performance. Shout out to Emery for making the changes that win the game.
Big week coming up now.
Post by: olaftab on March 02, 2024, 07:59:51 PM
Sat in the pub with a couple of mates who are ManU fans. Giving it bigun after equaliser, but that's so satisfying!Those red scum ****** will be looking at 11 points come tomorrow 6pm with same games played. They can kiss our arse.
Top 5 for sure now.
Post by: Beard82 on March 02, 2024, 08:00:52 PM
I would say hes up there with Drinkwater levels of badness.
He just looks like a less good Jota - the one we signed from Birmingham.
Post by: andyh on March 02, 2024, 08:01:19 PM
But, we will take the win
Post by: Neil Hawkes on March 02, 2024, 08:03:11 PM
Any of the "big six"..spit..teams getting that performance from a referee would have had an enquiry in front of the FA at the final whistle.
Post by: olaftab on March 02, 2024, 08:03:35 PM
One of the most one side games you'll ever see for the first half. We then got out muscled for much of the second half, helped by a poor ref who seemed intent on keeping the game interesting for the neutrals.Danny Kelly said the same thing about Forest game last week. He said it was never a 3-2 at one stage as it was. Last 3 wins we have made it unnecessarily hard for ourselves.
Ultimately we deserved it for that first half performance. Shout out to Emery for making the changes that win the game.
Big week coming up now.
Post by: Gareth on March 02, 2024, 08:03:55 PM
Sat in the pub with a couple of mates who are ManU fans. Giving it bigun after equaliser, but that's so satisfying!Those red scum ****** will be looking at 11 points come tomorrow 6pm with same games played. They can kiss our arse.
Top 5 for sure now.
12 efffectively with -22 goal difference before they face their cheating neighbours.
Drummond - hope you give it the big un after the winner & followed it up with ‘the most annoying thing about this season is losing 6 points to their dog turd if a team’
Post by: Mister E on March 02, 2024, 08:04:45 PM
Post by: Olof's Beard on March 02, 2024, 08:05:00 PM
Credit to Matty Cash for the initial goal line clearance as well. Just a shame Luton were more alive to the 2nd balls.
I thought Cash was really good tonight. Plenty of zip about his attacking in the first half and then one of the more composed as we panicked in the 2nd half. The clearance was quality and deserved better.
Post by: Villa Lew on March 02, 2024, 08:05:06 PM
Post by: Goldenballs on March 02, 2024, 08:07:04 PM
The only reason that was so difficult was down to the Ref giving fouls for them and ignoring identical fouls on us. Ollie was held, pushed and pulled over on so many occasions - no foul.
Any of the "big six"..spit..teams getting that performance from a referee would have had an enquiry in front of the FA at the final whistle.
Imagine how Klopp or Arteta would be speaking after that ref's performance, even after winning. We're too nice.
Post by: rougegorge on March 02, 2024, 08:09:49 PM
That's three games in a row we have wobbled against lesser opposition after being well on top.
Oliver gave us a couple of soft bookings.and missed some of their fouls, but we did so many fouls (nearly all of which were fouls) in the second half that we just inexplicably played into their hands.
They like a corner and a free kick and giving them so many in dangerous places was asking for trouble.
However, hats off to Diaby and Digne for that goal.
Post by: Legion on March 02, 2024, 08:09:52 PM
Post by: Clampy on March 02, 2024, 08:10:01 PM
Post by: Small Rodent on March 02, 2024, 08:11:45 PM
Post by: levico on March 02, 2024, 08:13:27 PM
Post by: Demitri_C on March 02, 2024, 08:15:10 PM
We should be writing a letter demanding answers
Post by: TonyD on March 02, 2024, 08:15:43 PM
Conducted by the odious Oliver.
They got what they fukin deserved.
Post by: astonvilla82 on March 02, 2024, 08:16:16 PM
Post by: Baldy on March 02, 2024, 08:18:50 PM
As Mr Mullet said, we played the 'crazy gang' tonight. Thankfully, Doughty only moved forward in the second half or we would have had an aerial bombardment for the whole 90 minutes.
Brilliant to get a late win and really piss off Spurs, Man Utd etc in the process.
It's what the top teams do.
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on March 02, 2024, 08:22:28 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 02, 2024, 08:24:38 PM
Post by: dave shelley on March 02, 2024, 08:27:47 PM
Post by: itbrvilla on March 02, 2024, 08:28:00 PM
Post by: paul_e on March 02, 2024, 08:28:23 PM
I think Oliver was poor, and the yellows for Doug and Bailey were ridiculous. But we did commit a lot of stupid fouls as well. There’s fault on us for that, no matter how much we want to push it all to the ref.
We did, but they were making the same challenges and having play waved on, that was the problem, you can be a pernickity shit and blow up for everything or you can let things go and try to let the game flow, you can't do one for one team and one for the other. We didn't commit a single foul all game that was any worse than they were doing to Watkins. Inconsistency is what pisses me off with refs and today was as bad as anything I can think of.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 02, 2024, 08:28:45 PM
Special shout to the ref oliver. The most corrupt mother fucker in the league.
We should be writing a letter demanding answers
No we shouldn’t, that’s what pathetic clubs do. He was overzealous, but we were also giving away stupid fouls (that were fouls) too. The main obvious error on his part was he got it into his head that Menghi was being fair against Ollie, which he wasn’t.
Post by: fredm on March 02, 2024, 08:30:20 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 02, 2024, 08:30:52 PM
I think Oliver was poor, and the yellows for Doug and Bailey were ridiculous. But we did commit a lot of stupid fouls as well. There’s fault on us for that, no matter how much we want to push it all to the ref.
We did, but they were making the same challenges and having play waved on, that was the problem, you can be a pernickity shit and blow up for everything or you can let things go and try to let the game flow, you can't do one for one team and one for the other. We didn't commit a single foul all game that was any worse than they were doing to Watkins. Inconsistency is what pisses me off with refs and today was as bad as anything I can think of.
The Menghi vs Ollie battle was his main mistake, because he got it into his head that Menghi was being fair. He also gave us some very soft yellow cards, but I think most of the fouls he gave were fouls.
Post by: danno on March 02, 2024, 08:31:37 PM
Post by: BC Villain on March 02, 2024, 08:32:34 PM
Post by: astonvilla82 on March 02, 2024, 08:34:32 PM
Those pathetic clubs seem to get away it much more after writing them letters,Special shout to the ref oliver. The most corrupt mother fucker in the league.
We should be writing a letter demanding answers
No we shouldn’t, that’s what pathetic clubs do. He was overzealous, but we were also giving away stupid fouls (that were fouls) too. The main obvious error on his part was he got it into his head that Menghi was being fair against Ollie, which he wasn’t.
Post by: curiousorange on March 02, 2024, 08:38:15 PM
Post by: rob_bridge on March 02, 2024, 08:38:38 PM
Vince Lombardi - he'd have approved given the circumstances.
Post by: olaftab on March 02, 2024, 08:39:05 PM
I am with PWA.Special shout to the ref oliver. The most corrupt mother fucker in the league.
We should be writing a letter demanding answers
No we shouldn’t, that’s what pathetic clubs do. He was overzealous, but we were also giving away stupid fouls (that were fouls) too. The main obvious error on his part was he got it into his head that Menghi was being fair against Ollie, which he wasn’t.
Post by: paul_e on March 02, 2024, 08:39:22 PM
I think Oliver was poor, and the yellows for Doug and Bailey were ridiculous. But we did commit a lot of stupid fouls as well. There’s fault on us for that, no matter how much we want to push it all to the ref.
We did, but they were making the same challenges and having play waved on, that was the problem, you can be a pernickity shit and blow up for everything or you can let things go and try to let the game flow, you can't do one for one team and one for the other. We didn't commit a single foul all game that was any worse than they were doing to Watkins. Inconsistency is what pisses me off with refs and today was as bad as anything I can think of.
The Menghi vs Ollie battle was his main mistake, because he got it into his head that Menghi was being fair. He also gave us some very soft yellow cards, but I think most of the fouls he gave were fouls.
I think you're being very generous to him, it wasn't just Mengi who was getting away with things, Morris was regularly putting hands on the back and shoulders of defenders so they couldn't challenge him which is as much of a foul as the one he booked Luiz for. There were 2-3 times where they clipped our player after the ball was gone and he waved it on but gave them free kicks for the same thing. Again it's not about where you draw th eline on what is or isn't a foul, it's about applying that fairly to both teams and no one could seriously claim he did that.
Post by: olaftab on March 02, 2024, 08:40:31 PM
The tendency to sacrifice leads is worrying but Unai’s game management was sound.There is no tendency. The two 2-0 to 2-2 are unusual and outliers.
Post by: paul_e on March 02, 2024, 08:43:03 PM
The tendency to sacrifice leads is worrying but Unai’s game management was sound.There is no tendency. The two 2-0 to 2-2 are unusual and outliers.
Correct, we've dropped the least points from a winning position of any team in the league, the Man Utd defeat is the only one all season.
Post by: Drummond on March 02, 2024, 08:43:17 PM
Sat in the pub with a couple of mates who are ManU fans. Giving it bigun after equaliser, but that's so satisfying!Those red scum ****** will be looking at 11 points come tomorrow 6pm with same games played. They can kiss our arse.
Top 5 for sure now.
Exactly what I'm saying to them... 😉
Post by: trinityoap on March 02, 2024, 08:43:47 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 02, 2024, 08:43:57 PM
The tendency to sacrifice leads is worrying but Unai’s game management was sound.There is no tendency. The two 2-0 to 2-2 are unusual and outliers.
We nearly did it against Forest too. We shouldn’t be blind to the fact it’s an area we need to improve on. Regularly shipping two goals puts massive pressure on your forward play.
Post by: curiousorange on March 02, 2024, 08:44:08 PM
Post by: Drummond on March 02, 2024, 08:44:11 PM
Sat in the pub with a couple of mates who are ManU fans. Giving it bigun after equaliser, but that's so satisfying!Those red scum ****** will be looking at 11 points come tomorrow 6pm with same games played. They can kiss our arse.
Top 5 for sure now.
12 efffectively with -22 goal difference before they face their cheating neighbours.
Drummond - hope you give it the big un after the winner & followed it up with ‘the most annoying thing about this season is losing 6 points to their dog turd if a team’
Yep, exactly. 'can't believe we lost to you lot'..
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on March 02, 2024, 08:46:47 PM
Post by: olaftab on March 02, 2024, 08:48:08 PM
That makes it sweet. They don’t like it we know but they can suck it up.
Brilliant to get a late win and really piss off Spurs, Man Utd etc in the process.
It's what the top teams do.
Post by: Nev on March 02, 2024, 08:50:37 PM
Post by: Nii Lamptey on March 02, 2024, 08:51:59 PM
Don’t think my heart or nerves will be able to get through the next 3 games - All 3 are huge!
Man Utd are out of it now imo, and if we beat Spurs next week, I think 4th is sewn up.
Special shout out to Ollie. For years, we’ve been questioning if he is the real deal? Under Unai’s stewardship, he’s going to become the first Villa player to hit 20 league goals in a season - Needs only 4 goals from 13 games now. He’s blossomed into one hell of a forward. 👏🏼
Post by: Percy McCarthy on March 02, 2024, 08:52:44 PM
If Lenglet let's Emi pick that ball up before the corner that led to the first goal, I think we see that out comfortably. Lost our way a tad in the second half but we did what all good sides do.
Yep, I said that at the time. Moreno did it previous to that as well. Not sure if it was Emi not communicating assertively enough though.
Post by: olaftab on March 02, 2024, 08:53:13 PM
The tendency to sacrifice leads is worrying but Unai’s game management was sound.There is no tendency. The two 2-0 to 2-2 are unusual and outliers.
We nearly did it against Forest too. We shouldn’t be blind to the fact it’s an area we need to improve on. Regularly shipping two goals puts massive pressure on your forward play.
No it doesn’t put pressure on our forwards when we are two up. If it happens the other way round, going 2 down regularly, now that’s pressure. However I agree that we worked harder than we needed to in the last 3 wins.
Post by: The Edge on March 02, 2024, 08:53:24 PM
The tendency to sacrifice leads is worrying but Unai’s game management was sound.It was brilliant
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 02, 2024, 08:54:54 PM
The tendency to sacrifice leads is worrying but Unai’s game management was sound.It was brilliant
It was terrifying.
Post by: DeKuip on March 02, 2024, 08:55:28 PM
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 02, 2024, 08:56:35 PM
It worried me at the time but it turned out be an absolute masterstroke by Unai on 79 mins to take off 4 players and only put 3 on.
Ha ha ha, very good.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 02, 2024, 08:59:27 PM
Post by: Nii Lamptey on March 02, 2024, 09:00:24 PM
If Lenglet let's Emi pick that ball up before the corner that led to the first goal, I think we see that out comfortably. Lost our way a tad in the second half but we did what all good sides do.
Yep, I said that at the time. Moreno did it previous to that as well. Not sure if it was Emi not communicating assertively enough though.
Think it was Lenglet that left the ball for Emi to collect against Forest, and they nipped in front of him and tucked it away.
Personally, I think they both made correct decision. Get rid
Post by: rob_bridge on March 02, 2024, 09:11:31 PM
It worried me at the time but it turned out be an absolute masterstroke by Unai on 79 mins to take off 4 players and only put 3 on.
I think it was 3 for 3
+ a ghost off and a ghost off
Tielemans and Zaniola should be a in sixth sense remake
Post by: Risso on March 02, 2024, 09:12:51 PM
Post by: Louzie0 on March 02, 2024, 09:14:42 PM
Ecstatic of course, following the result!
I was a bit concerned about all our bookings during the match, as I wouldn’t categorise our approach and style as agricultural, especially under this manager. I’m relieved to have read the comments in here about other perspectives on the referee.
What a shocker he turned out to be.
Agree with Risso about their keeper, he’s a star. Not yet our Emi, though.
Post by: rougegorge on March 02, 2024, 09:16:05 PM
Except sometimes Tielemans does play well.It worried me at the time but it turned out be an absolute masterstroke by Unai on 79 mins to take off 4 players and only put 3 on.
I think it was 3 for 3
+ a ghost off and a ghost off
Tielemans and Zaniola should be a in sixth sense remake
Post by: VILLA MOLE on March 02, 2024, 09:16:39 PM
Post by: Witton Warrior on March 02, 2024, 09:22:15 PM
Post by: Pat McMahon on March 02, 2024, 09:39:26 PM
If Lenglet let's Emi pick that ball up before the corner that led to the first goal, I think we see that out comfortably. Lost our way a tad in the second half but we did what all good sides do.
I thought exactly the same when we conceded that corner but after the pair of them were involved in the error for Fulham’s goal two weeks ago I get why Lenglet took no prisoners.
Great first half, but we should really have scored a third and knocked the stuffing out of them. I really felt annoyed that we fell into their hands second half. They upped the temp, started to attack the flanks in the hope of winning set pieces and we obliged by gifting loads of free kicks, many of them soft. Once we had seen what the ref was giving we should have been smarter and given him less reason to award them.
Having said that, Ollie was mauled for much of the first half and got almost nothing from the ref, who seemed to operate two very different sets of rules re physical contact. How Digne was booked for that aerial duel was completely unfathomable.
We really need to be clinical when managing 2 goal leads and our defensive set piece work needs a fair bit of fine tuning too. All in all, relieved!
Post by: Steve67 on March 02, 2024, 09:42:02 PM
Post by: Villatillidie1982 on March 02, 2024, 09:42:48 PM
Subs were far too late (needed after 55-60 mins) , Tielmans was pretty shite for the most part, Zaniolo was dreadful and too many half arsed second half performances but we found a way and 70 points will give us Champions League. If Torres plays next week alongside Konsa, we will beat ye spuds and have a better than excellent chance. Just listening to Watkins, he making it very clear that the relaxing after a two goal lead is not on, good on him...Lenglet is getting better apart from the needless corner that he gave away.
Post by: olaftab on March 02, 2024, 09:44:37 PM
Imagine spurs fans faces watching the winner go in!Oh they are not happy cocks. "Villa are always lucky get more breaks than any other team" 'They have got away with not having injuries like we had" "Fuckin Emery celebrated that goal like he's already qualified for top 4" "Catty Mash fucking dirty clogger, I wonder who's leg he's going to break next week maybe Maddison"
Post by: olaftab on March 02, 2024, 09:48:09 PM
We really need to be clinical when managing 2 goal leads and our defensive set piece work needs a fair bit of fine tuning too. All in all, relieved!Yes it does need tuning. I have noted in the last few matches we have been very vulnerable when defending situations like the one where Luton scored their second.
Post by: villadelph on March 02, 2024, 09:48:49 PM
Imagine spurs fans faces watching the winner go in!Oh they are not happy cocks. "Villa are always lucky get more breaks than any other team" 'They have got away with not having injuries like we had" "Fuckin Emery celebrated that goal like he's already qualified for top 4" "Catty Mash fucking dirty clogger, I wonder who's leg he's going to break next week maybe Maddison"
“Luton with another free kick..”
Post by: VILLA MOLE on March 02, 2024, 09:49:29 PM
Imagine spurs fans faces watching the winner go in!Oh they are not happy cocks. "Villa are always lucky get more breaks than any other team" 'They have got away with not having injuries like we had" "Fuckin Emery celebrated that goal like he's already qualified for top 4" "Catty Mash fucking dirty clogger, I wonder who's leg he's going to break next week maybe Maddison"
I thought their own Argentinian hatchet man was going to sort him
Post by: Oklahoma on March 02, 2024, 09:51:22 PM
Luton went for it in the 2nd half. Our class in the first, was matched by their tenacity in the 2nd, fair play to them.
Big big win, well done Villa.
Post by: CT Villan on March 02, 2024, 09:52:23 PM
Luton MOTM : Michael Oliver (nuff said)
Thought we missed JJ when he went off and the second half was awful. When Tielemans tired we lost the connection between back and front and I would have subbed him much sooner.
Still, a win is a win.
Post by: Matt C on March 02, 2024, 09:52:48 PM
Post by: Risso on March 02, 2024, 09:55:45 PM
Post by: rob_bridge on March 02, 2024, 10:00:46 PM
My lad and I legged it up to the local in Wordsley for the last 20 minutes to hear local Dingles laughing about our Champion's League aspirations. Sat down with pints as Digne buried his header. The lone Olbiun fan was telling us all how great the Championship was. They all toddled off at the end...
Best they do. Best for everyone. Everyone in the world. Especially themselves.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 02, 2024, 10:02:16 PM
Luton have got a lot more about them than either Sheff U or Burnley, and they pressed us very well today.
Yep, their press was excellent and very coordinated.
Post by: rob_bridge on March 02, 2024, 10:06:05 PM
Boxer v puncher.
Then they started punching and didn't stop. Niggly, arsey, determined with a div of a ref. Don't blame Luton.
Luckily we got the 12th round knockdown to win narrowly.
Barkley showed this season what an utter waste of 10 years he has been. Had he bothered there would have been no raving of the current crop in England team, he would have bee front and centre - the guy had everything as an 8/10 hyrbid.
Post by: pablo_picasso on March 02, 2024, 10:15:37 PM
We can be a bit of a rollercoaster at times.
Weirdly, that John Townley chap reckons we have the 4th best away form in the league now too.
How on earth did that happen? 😂
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 02, 2024, 10:19:07 PM
Post by: Demitri_C on March 02, 2024, 10:19:14 PM
[quote
Seems to not help klopp does it. Only gets 9 minutes injury time when they desperately need a goal then conveniently make a midlstake that helps liverpool win the game. But lets just accept mediocre biased referrees just so we are not "a pathetic club"
No we shouldn’t, that’s what pathetic clubs do. He was overzealous, but we were also giving away stupid fouls (that were fouls) too. The main obvious error on his part was he got it into his head that Menghi was being fair against Ollie, which he wasn’t.
[/quote]
If the referring performances were not so pathetic then we wouldnt have to write letters demanding answers. Doesnt seem to help klopp much does it as shown today !
Post by: Smithy on March 02, 2024, 10:20:08 PM
Would we rather be sat here having won 0-1 with Digne's last minute winner? No chance. Losing leads hurts, but we're exciting to watch and I'm really enjoying it.
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 02, 2024, 10:27:13 PM
It was one of the most biased refereeing displays I have ever seen.haha, you tried Oliver.. you crooked prick!
Investigation is required. Biased as fuck
Post by: Legion on March 02, 2024, 10:29:10 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 02, 2024, 10:30:51 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on March 02, 2024, 10:34:37 PM
Post by: paul_e on March 02, 2024, 10:48:31 PM
He’s not biased is he.
He's the same ref that sent Doug off in Gerrards last game (which was a truly awful decision).
He's the same ref who seems to always book one of our players for time wasting, I can think of bookings for Young and Emi last season that were both very harsh.
This was rhis first time reffing for us this season, I doubt that is an accident.
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 02, 2024, 10:50:30 PM
haha, you tried Oliver.. you crooked prick!
Investigation is required. Biased as fuck
It was one of the most biased refereeing displays I have ever seen.
As someone put it on X, Oliver's day at the office was the worst since John McClane's.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 02, 2024, 10:54:01 PM
He’s not biased is he.
He's the same ref that sent Doug off in Gerrards last game (which was a truly awful decision).
He's the same ref who seems to always book one of our players for time wasting, I can think of bookings for Young and Emi last season that were both very harsh.
This was rhis first time reffing for us this season, I doubt that is an accident.
Doesn’t make him biased. I suspect if you go on most fans forums everyone thinks refs are against them, but I don’t think it’s true. They might make poor decisions, but also a lot of calls are pretty subjective. Most of the fouls given against us today I thought were fouls, he could have given more against Luton but I don’t think it’s because he had an agenda.
Post by: paul_e on March 02, 2024, 10:59:45 PM
Doesn’t make him biased. I suspect if you go on most fans forums everyone thinks refs are against them, but I don’t think it’s true. They might make poor decisions, but also a lot of calls are pretty subjective. Most of the fouls given against us today I thought were fouls, he could have given more against Luton but I don’t think it’s because he had an agenda.
Maybe he doesn't, but he's regularly shit for us and regularly gives poor decisions against. You're happy to say it's not bias I'm not and either way, the alternatives that Legion offered of incompetence or corruption are still on the table. What I find odd is that you are so eager to downplay how poor he was today. It's one of the worst reffing performances I can recall and whether you think we should've played better int he 2nd half or not shouldn't excuse that.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on March 02, 2024, 11:05:59 PM
We need to be at it for the full 90 mins next Sunday.
Post by: rob_bridge on March 02, 2024, 11:07:01 PM
Thought Rob Edwards comments post game were pretty balanced. He’s doing a very good job at Luton.
A brilliant job overall. He inherited a good position and enhanced it.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 02, 2024, 11:09:02 PM
Doesn’t make him biased. I suspect if you go on most fans forums everyone thinks refs are against them, but I don’t think it’s true. They might make poor decisions, but also a lot of calls are pretty subjective. Most of the fouls given against us today I thought were fouls, he could have given more against Luton but I don’t think it’s because he had an agenda.
Maybe he doesn't, but he's regularly shit for us and regularly gives poor decisions against. You're happy to say it's not bias I'm not and either way, the alternatives that Legion offered of incompetence or corruption are still on the table. What I find odd is that you are so eager to downplay how poor he was today. It's one of the worst reffing performances I can recall and whether you think we should've played better int he 2nd half or not shouldn't excuse that.
Conversely I think it’s interesting how you’re keen to downplay how much we were architects in our own struggles. If the ref was incompetent we didn’t do a great job of minimising the impact of his decisions- see how we allowed our left hand side to be completely exposed. I’m not going to get into an argument about this, my view is the ref wasn’t great but it wasn’t some scheme to screw us over and had we replicated the level we hit in the first half we wouldn’t be debating fouls that should/shouldn’t have been given. Luton got back in the game because we dropped off, but great quality from a couple of changes won us the game.
Post by: VillaTim on March 02, 2024, 11:15:09 PM
We just didn't come out for the 2nd half and Rodgers didn't bother with his off the ball work down the left. It almost cost us 3 points.Doesn’t make him biased. I suspect if you go on most fans forums everyone thinks refs are against them, but I don’t think it’s true. They might make poor decisions, but also a lot of calls are pretty subjective. Most of the fouls given against us today I thought were fouls, he could have given more against Luton but I don’t think it’s because he had an agenda.
Maybe he doesn't, but he's regularly shit for us and regularly gives poor decisions against. You're happy to say it's not bias I'm not and either way, the alternatives that Legion offered of incompetence or corruption are still on the table. What I find odd is that you are so eager to downplay how poor he was today. It's one of the worst reffing performances I can recall and whether you think we should've played better int he 2nd half or not shouldn't excuse that.
Conversely I think it’s interesting how you’re keen to downplay how much we were architects in our own struggles. If the ref was incompetent we didn’t do a great job of minimising the impact of his decisions- see how we allowed our left hand side to be completely exposed. I’m not going to get into an argument about this, my view is the ref wasn’t great but it wasn’t some scheme to screw us over and had we replicated the level we hit in the first half we wouldn’t be debating fouls that should/shouldn’t have been given. Luton got back in the game because we dropped off, but great quality from a couple of changes won us the game.
Post by: paul_e on March 02, 2024, 11:15:38 PM
Doesn’t make him biased. I suspect if you go on most fans forums everyone thinks refs are against them, but I don’t think it’s true. They might make poor decisions, but also a lot of calls are pretty subjective. Most of the fouls given against us today I thought were fouls, he could have given more against Luton but I don’t think it’s because he had an agenda.
Maybe he doesn't, but he's regularly shit for us and regularly gives poor decisions against. You're happy to say it's not bias I'm not and either way, the alternatives that Legion offered of incompetence or corruption are still on the table. What I find odd is that you are so eager to downplay how poor he was today. It's one of the worst reffing performances I can recall and whether you think we should've played better int he 2nd half or not shouldn't excuse that.
Conversely I think it’s interesting how you’re keen to downplay how much we were architects in our own struggles. If the ref was incompetent we didn’t do a great job of minimising the impact of his decisions- see how we allowed our left hand side to be completely exposed. I’m not going to get into an argument about this, my view is the ref wasn’t great but it wasn’t some scheme to screw us over and had we replicated the level we hit in the first half we wouldn’t be debating fouls that should/shouldn’t have been given. Luton got back in the game because we dropped off, but great quality from a couple of changes won us the game.
but I haven't done that:
Poor 2nd half where we just couldn't seem to find any control of the play but we were superb in the first half and got a very good late goal.
Probably the most biased reffing performance of the season, the yellow card for Luiz is one of the softest I've ever seen and I have no idea what Mengi would've had to do to get a yellow, kicked, pushed and pulled Watkins all game and the ref just ignored it every time, fucking gerodie twat.
That's my first post on the thread. What I find strange is that you refuse to see that the inconsistency from the ref played a part in how we couldn't get any control after half time, I'm not saying it's the only problem but it clearly played a part.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 02, 2024, 11:25:22 PM
Post by: Nunkin1965 on March 02, 2024, 11:32:42 PM
Its very unfashionable to praise the opposition but Luton played well in the second half and probably deserved a point.
With 5th spot looking a likely Champions League place, I'd say we need 4 or 5 wins to secure our spot.
Post by: ROBBO on March 02, 2024, 11:37:50 PM
Post by: curiousorange on March 02, 2024, 11:50:24 PM
haha, you tried Oliver.. you crooked prick!
Investigation is required. Biased as fuck
It was one of the most biased refereeing displays I have ever seen.
As someone put it on X, Oliver's day at the office was the worst since John McClane's.
*smiles bashfully*
Post by: Footy-Vill on March 02, 2024, 11:56:38 PM
Oliver officiated Gerrard's last stand the 3-0 defeat.haha, you tried Oliver.. you crooked prick!
Investigation is required. Biased as fuck
It was one of the most biased refereeing displays I have ever seen.
As someone put it on X, Oliver's day at the office was the worst since John McClane's.
*smiles bashfully*
Steven Gerrard get out of our club .
Post by: Hillbilly on March 03, 2024, 12:19:06 AM
Post by: olaftab on March 03, 2024, 12:31:15 AM
Thought Rob Edwards comments post game were pretty balanced. He’s doing a very good job at Luton.He's doing a great job. I didn't realise he was one of our own.
Post by: The Edge on March 03, 2024, 12:44:00 AM
Post by: Rory on March 03, 2024, 02:15:36 AM
Thought Rob Edwards comments post game were pretty balanced. He’s doing a very good job at Luton.He's doing a great job. I didn't realise he was one of our own.
He was one of the tiny pictures in one of our calendars in the early '00s. Probably next to Vassell's groin.
Post by: darren woolley on March 03, 2024, 02:38:57 AM
Post by: Holte Antipode on March 03, 2024, 02:45:17 AM
Credit to the Luton manager who saw the weakness in Rogers defending, all of their pressure came down the right in the second half, why Emery didn't respond earlier is puzzling. We left it late but a goal of pure class, don't want to sell Digne he has been brilliant for us this season.
Game was a really enjoyable watch from this galaxy, far far away, although I definitely needed a couple of strong breakfast coffees to get through that flaky 2nd-half period. This is how I saw it too Robbo - Luton are not pushovers at home (see their recent efforts v Manure, Brighton and the Saudis), often step it up in the 2nd 50 minutes, found a grand canyon between Moreno and Rogers etc.
Also thought Ollie’s post-match comments to Sky/Beeb showed a steely confidence, combined with realistic self-criticism and team evaluation of what we need to work on.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/teams/aston-villa
He could have fairly added “and how that WWE Superstars cnut Menghi remained on the pitch is beyond me” - but I guess he’s too classy to voice what we were all thinking. Congrats to him on this fine season.
Out of the loanees, I’d much rather keep our Barcelona one than the Galatasaray one. There were a couple of occasions in the first half where Clement seems to be learning from Pau, carrying the ball out with ease and making a nice pass that sliced right past the midfield into Ollie’s channel.
Don’t care how late the goal came, 3 points and now lunch with my Hotspud supporting, Waiheke Island chardonnay drinking friend tomorrow will be the sweeter. UTV!
Post by: Percy McCarthy on March 03, 2024, 05:42:56 AM
If Lenglet let's Emi pick that ball up before the corner that led to the first goal, I think we see that out comfortably. Lost our way a tad in the second half but we did what all good sides do.
Yep, I said that at the time. Moreno did it previous to that as well. Not sure if it was Emi not communicating assertively enough though.
Think it was Lenglet that left the ball for Emi to collect against Forest, and they nipped in front of him and tucked it away.
Personally, I think they both made correct decision. Get rid
Fulham that was.
Post by: brontebilly on March 03, 2024, 06:52:13 AM
The tendency to sacrifice leads is worrying but Unai’s game management was sound.There is no tendency. The two 2-0 to 2-2 are unusual and outliers.
Inability to defend set pieces unfortunately has become a real issue.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on March 03, 2024, 07:19:34 AM
Post by: lovejoy on March 03, 2024, 07:22:34 AM
Post by: Mister E on March 03, 2024, 07:37:44 AM
One or two people mentioned Tim's physicality: I note that he wasn't one of those players booked.
Z - just Why?!
A horrible second half to watch but what a great result - we got what other teams in the top 6 got, a 1-goal win (other than Liverpool).
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 03, 2024, 07:39:03 AM
I’m not saying it didn’t play a part, but I think our drop off in performance played a greater part, and I don’t think he has an agenda against us.If every time there was any contest between opposing layers, the ref decides to give Luton the ball then it’s pretty difficult to get any momentum in the game.
I think his persistent poor or biased decisions got to our players.
It was an astonishingly awful display by the ref and the fact that so many have commented on here bares this out.
Post by: Demitri_C on March 03, 2024, 07:39:11 AM
Some of the commen5 on the match thread are hysterical. We go from world beaters massaging our goal difference to Emery doesn’t know hat he’s doing, in 20 minutes. Embarrassing posts a lot of them.
Well obviously footballs a emotional game and people get upset when you let a two goal slip. No ones gonna be like yay luton equalised 🙂
Post by: ez on March 03, 2024, 08:11:58 AM
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 03, 2024, 08:29:55 AM
I’m not saying it didn’t play a part, but I think our drop off in performance played a greater part, and I don’t think he has an agenda against us.If every time there was any contest between opposing layers, the ref decides to give Luton the ball then it’s pretty difficult to get any momentum in the game.
I think his persistent poor or biased decisions got to our players.
It was an astonishingly awful display by the ref and the fact that so many have commented on here bares this out.
I just don’t think it was every time. I’m not saying he had a good game, or that he got some decisions wrong, I just think some of the reaction is overblown and the reality is we massively dropped off and allowed Luton back in. I don’t think the referee was a significant factor in that, could have been better yes, but we were the main problem in that phase.
Post by: Somniloquism on March 03, 2024, 08:33:07 AM
Some of the comments on the match thread are hysterical. We go from world beaters massaging our goal difference to Emery doesn’t know hat he’s doing, in 20 minutes. Embarrassing posts a lot of them.
The two goals didn't come out of nowhere. We could all see they had changed their formation and were getting attacks in and more freekicks and corners (which had been our weak points recently). We all see momentum was lost and something needed to be done about 60 minutes in at the latest. So why not criticise the manager when he does nothing and we let in two goals before the obvious changes our made?
Post by: Demitri_C on March 03, 2024, 08:44:05 AM
Some of the comments on the match thread are hysterical. We go from world beaters massaging our goal difference to Emery doesn’t know hat he’s doing, in 20 minutes. Embarrassing posts a lot of them.
The two goals didn't come out of nowhere. We could all see they had changed their formation and were getting attacks in and more freekicks and corners (which had been our weak points recently). We all see momentum was lost and something needed to be done about 60 minutes in at the latest. So why not criticise the manager when he does nothing and we let in two goals before the obvious changes our made?
I agree. I personally was saying in match thread the changes should have been done at 2-1 as we were losing the battle and luton were well on top.
I can only think that unai wanted to keep these players fresh for ajax as they will all be starting. I can see digne diabs and maybe timmy starting.
Id be suprised if zaniolo starts after he offers so little
Post by: Astnor on March 03, 2024, 08:59:38 AM
Post by: Richard E on March 03, 2024, 09:03:08 AM
Post by: brontebilly on March 03, 2024, 09:13:01 AM
Luton's tactical switch soon after half time did cause us problems as Watkins was bullying them before then. With the extra centre back they picked up a lot more breaks off Watkins. Ogbene is much better on the right too. Tielemans unfortunately offered us very little and I thought Luton exposed McGinn's limitations playing deep. Rogers wasn't as bad as I expected but he's not much of an athlete either, still I think Emery was more keen to move McGinn further forward than anything especially badly Rogers was doing.
It was a great winner, Diaby after a very tough time with his form played the perfect ball and Digne for once gambled going forward and finished superbly.
We go again!
Martinez 7, Cash 7, Konsa 4, Lenglet 7, Moreno 6, Luiz 7, McGinn 6, Ramsey 6 (Rogers 5), Bailey 6, Tielemans 5, Watkins 8.
Post by: KevinGage on March 03, 2024, 09:15:15 AM
Some of the comments on the match thread are hysterical. We go from world beaters massaging our goal difference to Emery doesn’t know hat he’s doing, in 20 minutes. Embarrassing posts a lot of them.
Don't think the match thread has ever served as the place for reasoned, well thought out debate.
It's not that kind of party.
Post by: Martyn Smith on March 03, 2024, 09:20:32 AM
Some of the comments on the match thread are hysterical. We go from world beaters massaging our goal difference to Emery doesn’t know hat he’s doing, in 20 minutes. Embarrassing posts a lot of them.
The two goals didn't come out of nowhere. We could all see they had changed their formation and were getting attacks in and more freekicks and corners (which had been our weak points recently). We all see momentum was lost and something needed to be done about 60 minutes in at the latest. So why not criticise the manager when he does nothing and we let in two goals before the obvious changes our made?
I agree. I personally was saying in match thread the changes should have been done at 2-1 as we were losing the battle and luton were well on top.
I can only think that unai wanted to keep these players fresh for ajax as they will all be starting. I can see digne diabs and maybe timmy starting.
Id be suprised if zaniolo starts after he offers so little
For a big guy he is too easy bundled off the ball. I just don't think he's quite up to the required standard
Post by: LeeB on March 03, 2024, 09:41:05 AM
I'm pleased we won of course but my enjoyment of it is tempered by that second half performance. That was another big warning. The fact that Emery let it happen carry on without acting was also worrying. I can only assume we are low on options with all the injuries.
I'm quite the opposite, I'm glad in hindsight the game went the way it did because I really enjoyed that late winner and sticking it right up those throwback twats, the ref and the commentator.
Post by: PeterWithe on March 03, 2024, 09:42:38 AM
Post by: VillaTim on March 03, 2024, 09:58:05 AM
Some of the comments on the match thread are hysterical. We go from world beaters massaging our goal difference to Emery doesn’t know hat he’s doing, in 20 minutes. Embarrassing posts a lot of them.yeah i tend to stay out of the match threads as people can't control themselves emotionally
Post by: VillaTim on March 03, 2024, 10:00:43 AM
I'm pleased we won of course but my enjoyment of it is tempered by that second half performance. That was another big warning. The fact that Emery let it happen carry on without acting was also worrying. I can only assume we are low on options with all the injuries.Emery will have learned Rodgers isn't ready to be thrown on after 35 mins , he will also be disappointed with Irogbunam . You can see what the gap is for these youngsters to bridge. the 2nd half was a car crash and bar that late Digne goal there would be meltdown on another collapse and some awful defending
Post by: caster troy on March 03, 2024, 10:02:14 AM
I thought Rogers looked promising with some crisp progressive passing and he did well to win the foul for the second goal, but obviously needs to work on the defensive side of his game. I'm sure that will come.
I think Emery delayed the subs because he wanted to see if we could get the third goal on the counter attack to kill off the game, and perhaps had an eye on saving those players for midweek.
Post by: Astnor on March 03, 2024, 10:05:12 AM
I dont think our aims are to control ourselves emotionally during matches. Myself are often that emotional that I m not able to look at match threads let alone typingSome of the comments on the match thread are hysterical. We go from world beaters massaging our goal difference to Emery doesn’t know hat he’s doing, in 20 minutes. Embarrassing posts a lot of them.yeah i tend to stay out of the match threads as people can't control themselves emotionally
Post by: VillaTim on March 03, 2024, 10:09:20 AM
It's a rollercoaster i get thatI dont think our aims are to control ourselves emotionally during matches. Myself are often that emotional that I m not able look look at match threads let alone typingSome of the comments on the match thread are hysterical. We go from world beaters massaging our goal difference to Emery doesn’t know hat he’s doing, in 20 minutes. Embarrassing posts a lot of them.yeah i tend to stay out of the match threads as people can't control themselves emotionally
Post by: Sexual Ealing on March 03, 2024, 10:09:25 AM
Some of the comments on the match thread are hysterical. We go from world beaters massaging our goal difference to Emery doesn’t know hat he’s doing, in 20 minutes. Embarrassing posts a lot of them.yeah i tend to stay out of the match threads as people can't control themselves emotionally
If I committed to refusing to control myself emotionally in every thread, would you maintain this principled stand of yours?
Post by: Brazilian Villain on March 03, 2024, 10:09:59 AM
Some of the comments on the match thread are hysterical. We go from world beaters massaging our goal difference to Emery doesn’t know hat he’s doing, in 20 minutes. Embarrassing posts a lot of them.
yeah i tend to stay out of the match threads as people can't control themselves emotionally
If only they had your self-control.
Post by: Clampy on March 03, 2024, 10:10:59 AM
Post by: Baldy on March 03, 2024, 10:11:11 AM
During half time, I reckon Unai told Martinez to play the long game. Unai was wary of the Luton very high press, no Torres, Konsa just back from injury and Rogers struggling with his positional play.
The long game didn't work, we kept losing possession. After 79 minutes he made the 4 substitutions, abandoned the long game and our possession improved culminating in a winning goal.
Playing out from the back has transformed Villa. Gives us possession and control. The long boot doesn't.
Post by: VillaTim on March 03, 2024, 10:13:03 AM
HaHa all i'm saying is you can't go from wanting Emery canonized to extradited in a 20 minute window ;DSome of the comments on the match thread are hysterical. We go from world beaters massaging our goal difference to Emery doesn’t know hat he’s doing, in 20 minutes. Embarrassing posts a lot of them.yeah i tend to stay out of the match threads as people can't control themselves emotionally
If I committed to refusing to control myself emotionally in every thread, would you maintain this principled stand of yours?
Post by: VillaTim on March 03, 2024, 10:13:42 AM
Out of interest, I wonder if anyone joins in the match thread whilst they are actually at the game?you can't get Wifi at Villa Park
Post by: Legion on March 03, 2024, 10:14:05 AM
Out of interest, I wonder if anyone joins in the match thread whilst they are actually at the game?
I've done that on occasion when I get a smidgen of signal.
Post by: Olneythelonely on March 03, 2024, 10:57:20 AM
We’re going to have the scrap for every win now. We’re down to the bare bones and even the best coach in the world isn’t going to be able to control every match for 90 minutes.
Post by: Mister E on March 03, 2024, 11:00:54 AM
Emery will have learned Rodgers isn't ready to be thrown on after 35 mins , he will also be disappointed with IrogbunamI think you're wrnog.
Rogers played well during the first half. In the second, Edwards changed his set-up; Emery didn't react, which might have had Rogers playing differently.
Tim did what he did: he added some physicality and wasn't one of those players booked by a card-happy ref so - although he gave away some sill fouls - did what was asked. He broke up the game and made things more difficult for the opposition.
We need Emery to give the young guys some game-time and have to accept that they are learning 'on the job' ... as Miley, Bradley and other feted youngsters from other clubs are doing.
Post by: Somniloquism on March 03, 2024, 11:02:07 AM
Out of interest, I wonder if anyone joins in the match thread whilst they are actually at the game?
PWS used to post from the games which is how he used to get the Scorchio's in.......
But in seriousness, Risso has posted sometimes (when he was beating PWS for one) and some others have as well.
Post by: Richard E on March 03, 2024, 11:08:44 AM
I'm pleased we won of course but my enjoyment of it is tempered by that second half performance. That was another big warning. The fact that Emery let it happen carry on without acting was also worrying. I can only assume we are low on options with all the injuries.Emery will have learned Rodgers isn't ready to be thrown on after 35 mins , he will also be disappointed with Irogbunam . You can see what the gap is for these youngsters to bridge. the 2nd half was a car crash and bar that late Digne goal there would be meltdown on another collapse and some awful defending
For me it was almost as if Rodgers wasn’t playing.
Post by: Somniloquism on March 03, 2024, 11:10:13 AM
I'm pleased we won of course but my enjoyment of it is tempered by that second half performance. That was another big warning. The fact that Emery let it happen carry on without acting was also worrying. I can only assume we are low on options with all the injuries.Emery will have learned Rodgers isn't ready to be thrown on after 35 mins , he will also be disappointed with Irogbunam . You can see what the gap is for these youngsters to bridge. the 2nd half was a car crash and bar that late Digne goal there would be meltdown on another collapse and some awful defending
For me it was almost as if Rodgers wasn’t playing.
;)
Post by: Ian. on March 03, 2024, 11:11:21 AM
Having to swap Ramsey early must have posed a problem as it was Rogers and Moreno who was struggling. Digne coming on sooner may of helped?
We do struggle at defending those balls into the box from free kicks and corners, we are vulnerable and we gave away too many free kicks and corners which put us under enormous pressure.
Full credit to Luton though, they played very well. However that referee was useless, they won so many free kicks, which most probably were fouls, but we did not get the same protection back which was infuriating. How we went into half time with two booking to their none was crazy and also I’m sure it effected Dougie’s game a bit.
Post by: Somniloquism on March 03, 2024, 11:13:57 AM
I think Emery has already explained his stance on early substitutions the other week. He said he has the utmost faith in the players and likes to believe that those selected can do what they have to do. I guess if we would have scored on the counter while they were pressing for that equaliser at 3-0 we would have killed them off.
Having to swap Ramsey early must have posed a problem as it was Rogers and Moreno who was struggling. Digne coming on sooner may of helped?
We do struggle at defending those balls into the box from free kicks and corners, we are vulnerable and we gave away too many free kicks and corners which put us under enormous pressure.
Full credit to Luton though, they played very well. However that referee was useless, they won so many free kicks, which most probably were fouls, but we did not get the same protection back which was infuriating. How we went into half time with two booking to their none was crazy and also I’m sure it effected Dougie’s game a bit.
They did have one for the shirt pull on Rogers which led to the 2nd Watkins goal. But it was the only one he seemed to give them all match when it sounded like a couple more might have been called for.
Post by: Ian. on March 03, 2024, 11:18:41 AM
We were a little careless and clumsy at times but the treatment on Ollie was quite cynical and I’m not sure how they got away with it so often. There was other incidents on the pitch which I thought were very dubious too.
Post by: The Edge on March 03, 2024, 11:18:53 AM
I think Emery has already explained his stance on early substitutions the other week. He said he has the utmost faith in the players and likes to believe that those selected can do what they have to do. I guess if we would have scored on the counter while they were pressing for that equaliser at 3-0 we would have killed them off.The ref was terrible.Ollie got absolutely no protection from the defenders constantly clattering into the back of him. And that Chong fella must think he still plays for Man Yoo the amount of times he won dodgy free kicks by throwing a tantrum. I respect Luton for doing what they have to but they're not my cup of tea and I won't be shedding any tears if they drop through the trap door.
Having to swap Ramsey early must have posed a problem as it was Rogers and Moreno who was struggling. Digne coming on sooner may of helped?
We do struggle at defending those balls into the box from free kicks and corners, we are vulnerable and we gave away too many free kicks and corners which put us under enormous pressure.
Full credit to Luton though, they played very well. However that referee was useless, they won so many free kicks, which most probably were fouls, but we did not get the same protection back which was infuriating. How we went into half time with two booking to their none was crazy and also I’m sure it effected Dougie’s game a bit.
Post by: VillaTim on March 03, 2024, 11:26:15 AM
2nd half I think he forgot he was playing. Huge learning curve for the lad.I'm pleased we won of course but my enjoyment of it is tempered by that second half performance. That was another big warning. The fact that Emery let it happen carry on without acting was also worrying. I can only assume we are low on options with all the injuries.Emery will have learned Rodgers isn't ready to be thrown on after 35 mins , he will also be disappointed with Irogbunam . You can see what the gap is for these youngsters to bridge. the 2nd half was a car crash and bar that late Digne goal there would be meltdown on another collapse and some awful defending
For me it was almost as if Rodgers wasn’t playing.
Post by: olaftab on March 03, 2024, 11:28:40 AM
<cough cough> Whoooooooosh2nd half I think he forgot he was playing. Huge learning curve for the lad.I'm pleased we won of course but my enjoyment of it is tempered by that second half performance. That was another big warning. The fact that Emery let it happen carry on without acting was also worrying. I can only assume we are low on options with all the injuries.Emery will have learned Rodgers isn't ready to be thrown on after 35 mins , he will also be disappointed with Irogbunam . You can see what the gap is for these youngsters to bridge. the 2nd half was a car crash and bar that late Digne goal there would be meltdown on another collapse and some awful defending
For me it was almost as if Rodgers wasn’t playing.
Post by: VillaTim on March 03, 2024, 11:34:14 AM
First half he was very good and looked dangerous on the front foot , there's a side of his game that he probably now needs to improve on at this level<cough cough> Whoooooooosh2nd half I think he forgot he was playing. Huge learning curve for the lad.I'm pleased we won of course but my enjoyment of it is tempered by that second half performance. That was another big warning. The fact that Emery let it happen carry on without acting was also worrying. I can only assume we are low on options with all the injuries.Emery will have learned Rodgers isn't ready to be thrown on after 35 mins , he will also be disappointed with Irogbunam . You can see what the gap is for these youngsters to bridge. the 2nd half was a car crash and bar that late Digne goal there would be meltdown on another collapse and some awful defending
For me it was almost as if Rodgers wasn’t playing.
Post by: Gareth on March 03, 2024, 11:37:24 AM
Post by: wittonwarrior on March 03, 2024, 11:41:52 AM
Ps some dickhead on the concourse was singing about Tony Mobbery and his illness. Please give your ticket to someone else your not wanted
Post by: olaftab on March 03, 2024, 11:42:36 AM
We need Emery to give the young guys some game-time and have to accept that they are learning 'on the job' ... as Miley, Bradley and other feted youngsters from other clubs are doing.I would like to see him in there at start on Thursday and rest one of Luiz/McGinn.
Post by: LeeB on March 03, 2024, 11:46:53 AM
Post by: VillaTim on March 03, 2024, 11:48:17 AM
He failed to send that Luton lump that had been booked after he'd launched himself elbow first into Ollie's head just seconds before he dished out that yellow to Luiz for running alongside a Luton player had fell over of his own accord, the useless biased prick.the Ref was a c*** no doubt about that . Couldn't wait to card our players
Post by: brontebilly on March 03, 2024, 12:02:40 PM
Emery will have learned Rodgers isn't ready to be thrown on after 35 mins , he will also be disappointed with IrogbunamI think you're wrnog.
Rogers played well during the first half. In the second, Edwards changed his set-up; Emery didn't react, which might have had Rogers playing differently.
Tim did what he did: he added some physicality and wasn't one of those players booked by a card-happy ref so - although he gave away some sill fouls - did what was asked. He broke up the game and made things more difficult for the opposition.
We need Emery to give the young guys some game-time and have to accept that they are learning 'on the job' ... as Miley, Bradley and other feted youngsters from other clubs are doing.
At least Tim can run anyway and got stuck into them. We seemed to have a bit more about our midfield. Will learn about his composure on the ball on the other days.
McGinn had a poor second half anyway and didn't offer anything bar falling over looking for frees after he pushed forward.
Post by: wince on March 03, 2024, 12:18:49 PM
Post by: Ads on March 03, 2024, 12:22:34 PM
Defended to 2 goals poorly too. Not quite sure what McGinn was doing for the 2nd.
Excellent first half and it really should have been 4 or 5. Great to have the determination to keep plugging away. They're 100mph with their dog chasing a car style press and I felt they ran out of steam with 10/15 to go when we made our subs.
Beautiful ball from Diaby and a lovely drift in at the back post from Digne. Absolute carnage in the away end. All about finding a way to win. 11 games now, it's in our hands.
Hopefully JJ isn't too injured. He walked in front of us going off and seemed to be walking freely.
Post by: VillaTim on March 03, 2024, 12:37:52 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 03, 2024, 12:38:02 PM
We see it differently, but for me the ref was a factor in that second half. You could see it on the players faces after decision after decision went the wrong way.I’m not saying it didn’t play a part, but I think our drop off in performance played a greater part, and I don’t think he has an agenda against us.If every time there was any contest between opposing layers, the ref decides to give Luton the ball then it’s pretty difficult to get any momentum in the game.
I think his persistent poor or biased decisions got to our players.
It was an astonishingly awful display by the ref and the fact that so many have commented on here bares this out.
I just don’t think it was every time. I’m not saying he had a good game, or that he got some decisions wrong, I just think some of the reaction is overblown and the reality is we massively dropped off and allowed Luton back in. I don’t think the referee was a significant factor in that, could have been better yes, but we were the main problem in that phase.
i also agree that we did give some silly fouls away that did not help.
Post by: VillaTim on March 03, 2024, 12:40:44 PM
Post by: algy on March 03, 2024, 12:46:22 PM
We'd be 2nd, 2pts behind Liverpool, if we'd have won those games. That's the frustrating thing about it.Sat in the pub with a couple of mates who are ManU fans. Giving it bigun after equaliser, but that's so satisfying!Those red scum ****** will be looking at 11 points come tomorrow 6pm with same games played. They can kiss our arse.
Top 5 for sure now.
12 efffectively with -22 goal difference before they face their cheating neighbours.
Drummond - hope you give it the big un after the winner & followed it up with ‘the most annoying thing about this season is losing 6 points to their dog turd if a team’
Post by: JUAN PABLO on March 03, 2024, 03:34:29 PM
Out of interest, I wonder if anyone joins in the match thread whilst they are actually at the game?
PWS used to post from the games which is how he used to get the Scorchio's in.......
But in seriousness, Risso has posted sometimes (when he was beating PWS for one) and some others have as well.
I thought PWS was one of the players to be honest.
Post by: eamonn on March 03, 2024, 04:30:59 PM
Unfortunately, last night, the corner for the first goal is a result of Lenglet not getting a shout from Dibu so he takes no chances after the Fulham fuck-up between the two of them, and boots it wide for a corner.
Second goal - there is no need for Konsa to pull Ogbene's shirt, Cash is covering. Really poor from someone of Konsa's experience.
Was really worried when Irogbuenam missed two or three challenges leading to fouls when he came on. I don't see him as ready to start for us yet.
In a little bar in Hove, I screamed like a fucker from the dead when our winner went in, hopefully the seagulls nearby heard it and scarpered too.
Post by: Olneythelonely on March 03, 2024, 04:32:32 PM
Unfortunately, last night, the corner for the first goal is a result of Lenglet not getting a shout from Dibu so he takes no chances after the Fulham fuck-up between the two of them, and boots it wide for a corner.
I was sure I heard a shout, watching it live.
Post by: VillaTim on March 03, 2024, 04:35:46 PM
By the law of averages, the concession of so many corners and free-kicks to Luton in the second half was inevitably going to lead to at least one goal. Emery made a point in the post-match interview of saying how the squad and Villa coaches this week had discussed cutting-down on needless set-pieces to the opposition.Ah nice one, anywhere near the Whitehawk ground
Unfortunately, last night, the corner for the first goal is a result of Lenglet not getting a shout from Dibu so he takes no chances after the Fulham fuck-up between the two of them, and boots it wide for a corner.
Second goal - there is no need for Konsa to pull Ogbene's shirt, Cash is covering. Really poor from someone of Konsa's experience.
Was really worried when Irogbuenam missed two or three challenges leading to fouls when he came on. I don't see him as ready to start for us yet.
In a little bar in Hove, I screamed like a fucker from the dead when our winner went in, hopefully the seagulls nearby heard it and scarpered too.
Post by: lovejoy on March 03, 2024, 04:37:47 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on March 03, 2024, 04:46:13 PM
Unfortunately, last night, the corner for the first goal is a result of Lenglet not getting a shout from Dibu so he takes no chances after the Fulham fuck-up between the two of them, and boots it wide for a corner.
I was sure I heard a shout, watching it live.
I think he had the shout, but he also had the shout for that Fulham fuck-up which is why he didn't take the chance. However, after Cash's clearance, the team were second to every ball. The player on the byline should have got no where near playing it back in.
Post by: amfy on March 03, 2024, 05:18:20 PM
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 03, 2024, 05:29:21 PM
It did help along with the other subs to stop Luton’s dominance in the second half.
Post by: Olof's Beard on March 03, 2024, 06:40:06 PM
Post by: BC54 VFC on March 03, 2024, 06:40:55 PM
Morgan Ro(d)gers is going to be the new Ciaran Clark(e)...or even Zanilio and Zaniola, which were both on the Match Thread!
Post by: Gareth on March 03, 2024, 06:52:59 PM
Aye, we are pretty harsh on players sometimes. Young Tim came on in the 79th minute with the game and momentum completely against us. He gave away a few fouls but wasn't alone there. We had a better shape with him on the pitch and ultimately won. I wouldn't be writing him off as a potential starter based on that short cameo.
I thought he did just fine, brought physicality that had disappeared for the 25 mins beforehand…was thrown into the storm and didn’t shirk
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 03, 2024, 07:08:18 PM
Aye, we are pretty harsh on players sometimes. Young Tim came on in the 79th minute with the game and momentum completely against us. He gave away a few fouls but wasn't alone there. We had a better shape with him on the pitch and ultimately won. I wouldn't be writing him off as a potential starter based on that short cameo.
His first few mins were really poor, he gave away fouls in positions that played into Luton’s hands. He did improve after that, but he needs to be careful about picking up the pace of the game when he comes on. He’ll learn.
Post by: Somniloquism on March 03, 2024, 07:42:25 PM
Post by: Clampy on March 03, 2024, 07:47:19 PM
Anyone who knows the xG shit know why our XG on the end of the match was 1.83 and Luton's was 2.28?
Just ignore xg. Thats all you have to do.
Post by: Holy Trinity on March 03, 2024, 07:48:23 PM
Anyone who knows the xG shit know why our XG on the end of the match was 1.83 and Luton's was 2.28?
Cashes goalline clearance. Hard to say exactly but I'd imagine that was around a 0.81- 0.85 xg and the follow up that went in would have been similar. That would put them at 1.6 ish plus the other goal was probably about a 0.3 - 0.4 and which would put then around 2 and then loads of points for all the headers in the general direction of our goal from corners and set peices.
I'd say out xg was around a 0.5 for ollies first and about 0.7 for his second with digne being around a 0.3. These are rough guesses so I'll see if I can check now and edit in the actual figures.
Post by: lovejoy on March 03, 2024, 08:00:33 PM
Post by: Gareth on March 03, 2024, 08:02:08 PM
Anyone who knows the xG shit know why our XG on the end of the match was 1.83 and Luton's was 2.28?
It’s a guess about something that doesn’t happen
3 points on the other hand :-)
I always think that anyone who put any interest in xG is someone I couldn’t be friends with :-) compete nonsense :-)
Post by: Holy Trinity on March 03, 2024, 08:17:33 PM
Post by: VillaTim on March 03, 2024, 08:55:28 PM
Aye, we are pretty harsh on players sometimes. Young Tim came on in the 79th minute with the game and momentum completely against us. He gave away a few fouls but wasn't alone there. We had a better shape with him on the pitch and ultimately won. I wouldn't be writing him off as a potential starter based on that short cameo.He came on like a bull in China shop. Then once everything was smashed he settled into a better rhythm for the last 4 mins
Post by: Gareth on March 03, 2024, 09:11:05 PM
Aye, we are pretty harsh on players sometimes. Young Tim came on in the 79th minute with the game and momentum completely against us. He gave away a few fouls but wasn't alone there. We had a better shape with him on the pitch and ultimately won. I wouldn't be writing him off as a potential starter based on that short cameo.He came on like a bull in China shop. Then once everything was smashed he settled into a better rhythm for the last 4 mins
As opposed to Teilemans and Rogers who hadn’t engaged in a challlenge for 10-15 mins, bull in china shop was exactly what was required
Post by: VillaTim on March 03, 2024, 09:22:15 PM
Bottom line it was 2-2 when he came on, and we ended up winning.Aye, we are pretty harsh on players sometimes. Young Tim came on in the 79th minute with the game and momentum completely against us. He gave away a few fouls but wasn't alone there. We had a better shape with him on the pitch and ultimately won. I wouldn't be writing him off as a potential starter based on that short cameo.He came on like a bull in China shop. Then once everything was smashed he settled into a better rhythm for the last 4 mins
As opposed to Teilemans and Rogers who hadn’t engaged in a challlenge for 10-15 mins, bull in china shop was exactly what was required
Post by: Gareth on March 03, 2024, 09:25:38 PM
Bottom line it was 2-2 when he came on, and we ended up winning.Aye, we are pretty harsh on players sometimes. Young Tim came on in the 79th minute with the game and momentum completely against us. He gave away a few fouls but wasn't alone there. We had a better shape with him on the pitch and ultimately won. I wouldn't be writing him off as a potential starter based on that short cameo.He came on like a bull in China shop. Then once everything was smashed he settled into a better rhythm for the last 4 mins
As opposed to Teilemans and Rogers who hadn’t engaged in a challlenge for 10-15 mins, bull in china shop was exactly what was required
Yup, 4 great subs…hindsight tells us :-)
Post by: dave shelley on March 03, 2024, 09:40:18 PM
Now Unai Emery has arrived and shown us the light. He doesn't always get it right but in the main he does. I've never seen four hooked and replaced at the same time but Unai did it and it worked, it might not have but he had the balls to try it.
We're fortunate enough to have him and we need to trust him. After so many managerial failures I can understand the difficulty in changing our mindset.
Post by: The Edge on March 03, 2024, 09:53:30 PM
There has been a lot of dissatisfaction over the years with the way previous managers have handled substitutions, no plan B, time of introduction and who has been hooked or not.Luton had a grip on the game with their hustle and bustle style. The 4 substitutions wrestled the game back in our favour. Unai is a fucking magician and we're so lucky to have I'm.
Now Unai Emery has arrived and shown us the light. He doesn't always get it right but in the main he does. I've never seen four hooked and replaced at the same time but Unai did it and it worked, it might not have but he had the balls to try it.
We're fortunate enough to have him and we need to trust him. After so many managerial failures I can understand the difficulty in changing our mindset.
Post by: PaulWinch again on March 03, 2024, 09:54:59 PM
There has been a lot of dissatisfaction over the years with the way previous managers have handled substitutions, no plan B, time of introduction and who has been hooked or not.
Now Unai Emery has arrived and shown us the light. He doesn't always get it right but in the main he does. I've never seen four hooked and replaced at the same time but Unai did it and it worked, it might not have but he had the balls to try it.
We're fortunate enough to have him and we need to trust him. After so many managerial failures I can understand the difficulty in changing our mindset.
Very true, but I think in an ideal world we’d have addressed our second half issues before they’d equalised. It worked out and they were bold subs, I just think we need to work on our control early in the second half at times. Unai is clearly brilliant, and has done an incredible job, but there’s always opportunity to improve.
Post by: VillaTim on March 03, 2024, 10:13:04 PM
Perhaps needed bringing on earlierBottom line it was 2-2 when he came on, and we ended up winning.Aye, we are pretty harsh on players sometimes. Young Tim came on in the 79th minute with the game and momentum completely against us. He gave away a few fouls but wasn't alone there. We had a better shape with him on the pitch and ultimately won. I wouldn't be writing him off as a potential starter based on that short cameo.He came on like a bull in China shop. Then once everything was smashed he settled into a better rhythm for the last 4 mins
As opposed to Teilemans and Rogers who hadn’t engaged in a challlenge for 10-15 mins, bull in china shop was exactly what was required
Yup, 4 great subs…hindsight tells us :-)
Post by: Percy McCarthy on March 03, 2024, 10:35:48 PM
Out of interest, I wonder if anyone joins in the match thread whilst they are actually at the game?
I posted about Chambers warming up at half-time last week.
Post by: ROBBO on March 03, 2024, 11:34:09 PM
Post by: VillaTim on March 03, 2024, 11:46:08 PM
Post by: The Edge on March 04, 2024, 08:13:26 AM
I don't think I've ever seen us make 4 subs all in one go in a proper game before , a unique moment ?Unique to us but I've seen plenty of clubs do it before. We've probably never had enough quality in depth before
Post by: Somniloquism on March 04, 2024, 08:51:06 AM
Luton had a grip on the game with their hustle and bustle style. The 4 substitutions wrestled the game back in our favour. Unai is a fucking magician and we're so lucky to have I'm.
2nd half, they had something like 7 shots with five on target including the 3-2 chance for them straight at Emi. We had only one.
After the subs we stopped them having any chances until deep in stoppage time. We also still had only one more chance at goal though but buried it.
Post by: pablo_picasso on March 04, 2024, 09:27:03 AM
Anyone who knows the xG shit know why our XG on the end of the match was 1.83 and Luton's was 2.28?
Because xG means the grand total of fuck all.
Post by: Monty on March 04, 2024, 09:27:55 AM
Post by: VillaTim on March 04, 2024, 09:49:40 AM
Post by: Somniloquism on March 04, 2024, 09:59:49 AM
Post by: MorrisNielson on March 04, 2024, 10:03:29 AM
55 Pts - 2023-24 - Luton Town - W 3-2
52 Pts - 2008-09 - Stoke City - D 2-2
52 Pts - 1989-90 - Coventry City - L 0-2
50 Pts - 1992-93 - Ipswich Town - W 2-0
Post by: London Villan on March 04, 2024, 10:10:09 AM
Post by: paul_e on March 04, 2024, 10:17:18 AM
xG seems useful for individual players and useless for teams.
and even for players how it should be used and how it gets used are often very different. Basically the entire point is an attempt to add some context to conversion rates.
Post by: taylorsworkrate on March 04, 2024, 10:18:42 AM
Anyone who knows the xG shit know why our XG on the end of the match was 1.83 and Luton's was 2.28?
Because xG means the grand total of fuck all.
Luton's first goal was probably counted as 2/3 seperate chances, with the xG total going up for each one
Post by: paul_e on March 04, 2024, 10:30:06 AM
Anyone who knows the xG shit know why our XG on the end of the match was 1.83 and Luton's was 2.28?
Because xG means the grand total of fuck all.
Luton's first goal was probably counted as 2/3 seperate chances, with the xG total going up for each one
Understat shows it better than most and they have the 3 chances as .71, .64 and .79 (goal). So yeah, the number is very misleading.
Post by: AV82EC on March 04, 2024, 10:34:45 AM
Where did it go wrong in the second half - we've let that happen a few times this season and got away with it against Forest, Luton and FUlham, but not Man Utd.
It seems if we’ve played well first half and come in with a deserved lead, we maybe don’t need to change much whereas the opposition do and when they come back out they are able to dictate their new game plan on us and the players and to a degree Unai aren’t reacting to it. It looked to me like Luton played a very aggressive 3-5-2 second half and we struggled to adapt. Then Unai had seen enough shored up the midfield and the left side and that was the shift we needed to go on and win the game. The issue was the Moreno/Rogers left side and Luton absolutely exposed it tbf to Edwards.
Post by: Rotterdam on March 04, 2024, 10:37:30 AM
Villa away following was immense in the first half, much quiet in the second half.
LTFC fans were excellent throughout.
Nassef Sawiris was in front of us with Monchi and Chris Woakes (!). They celebrated all the goals big style.
Bumped into Sir Brian.
Question - what was the problem with the minutes silence before kick off? Seemed to be lots of shouting?
Post by: Risso on March 04, 2024, 10:39:28 AM
I was lucky enough to get a hospitality ticket...some thoughts off the pitch.
Villa away following was immense in the first half, much quiet in the second half.
LTFC fans were excellent throughout.
Nassef Sawiris was in front of us with Monchi and Chris Woakes (!). They celebrated all the goals big style.
Bumped into Sir Brian.
Question - what was the problem with the minutes silence before kick off? Seemed to be lots of shouting?
A fair few dickheads in our fans decided it would be funny to keep shouting and not respect the silence. This then led to the Luton fans calling them naughty names, so it was all extremely pathetic.
Post by: VillaTim on March 04, 2024, 10:50:22 AM
Disappointing from TV it seemed to be coming from the Luton endI was lucky enough to get a hospitality ticket...some thoughts off the pitch.
Villa away following was immense in the first half, much quiet in the second half.
LTFC fans were excellent throughout.
Nassef Sawiris was in front of us with Monchi and Chris Woakes (!). They celebrated all the goals big style.
Bumped into Sir Brian.
Question - what was the problem with the minutes silence before kick off? Seemed to be lots of shouting?
A fair few dickheads in our fans decided it would be funny to keep shouting and not respect the silence. This then led to the Luton fans calling them naughty names, so it was all extremely pathetic.
Post by: Jon Crofts on March 04, 2024, 10:51:43 AM
Disappointing from TV it seemed to be coming from the Luton endI was lucky enough to get a hospitality ticket...some thoughts off the pitch.
Villa away following was immense in the first half, much quiet in the second half.
LTFC fans were excellent throughout.
Nassef Sawiris was in front of us with Monchi and Chris Woakes (!). They celebrated all the goals big style.
Bumped into Sir Brian.
Question - what was the problem with the minutes silence before kick off? Seemed to be lots of shouting?
A fair few dickheads in our fans decided it would be funny to keep shouting and not respect the silence. This then led to the Luton fans calling them naughty names, so it was all extremely pathetic.
How on earth could you possibly deduce that.
Post by: VillaTim on March 04, 2024, 10:51:48 AM
Where did it go wrong in the second half - we've let that happen a few times this season and got away with it against Forest, Luton and FUlham, but not Man Utd.pretty much from the re-start it was a different game , that got progressively worse for us until about the 84th minute
Post by: Jon Crofts on March 04, 2024, 10:53:14 AM
I don’t care if you’re on a mobile either.
Post by: Risso on March 04, 2024, 10:54:25 AM
Disappointing from TV it seemed to be coming from the Luton end
The away fans are right next to the home fans in the stand behind the goal.
Post by: VillaTim on March 04, 2024, 10:56:19 AM
when the shouting started the cameras are on the Luton players lining up , a couple of them looked distastefully over at their own stand on the side .Disappointing from TV it seemed to be coming from the Luton endI was lucky enough to get a hospitality ticket...some thoughts off the pitch.
Villa away following was immense in the first half, much quiet in the second half.
LTFC fans were excellent throughout.
Nassef Sawiris was in front of us with Monchi and Chris Woakes (!). They celebrated all the goals big style.
Bumped into Sir Brian.
Question - what was the problem with the minutes silence before kick off? Seemed to be lots of shouting?
A fair few dickheads in our fans decided it would be funny to keep shouting and not respect the silence. This then led to the Luton fans calling them naughty names, so it was all extremely pathetic.
How on earth could you possibly deduce that.
Post by: Jon Crofts on March 04, 2024, 10:57:32 AM
when the shouting started the cameras are on the Luton players lining up , a couple of them looked distastefully over at their own stand on the side .Disappointing from TV it seemed to be coming from the Luton endI was lucky enough to get a hospitality ticket...some thoughts off the pitch.
Villa away following was immense in the first half, much quiet in the second half.
LTFC fans were excellent throughout.
Nassef Sawiris was in front of us with Monchi and Chris Woakes (!). They celebrated all the goals big style.
Bumped into Sir Brian.
Question - what was the problem with the minutes silence before kick off? Seemed to be lots of shouting?
A fair few dickheads in our fans decided it would be funny to keep shouting and not respect the silence. This then led to the Luton fans calling them naughty names, so it was all extremely pathetic.
How on earth could you possibly deduce that.
OK Sherlock.
Post by: LeeB on March 04, 2024, 11:00:50 AM
when the shouting started the cameras are on the Luton players lining up , a couple of them looked distastefully over at their own stand on the side .Disappointing from TV it seemed to be coming from the Luton endI was lucky enough to get a hospitality ticket...some thoughts off the pitch.
Villa away following was immense in the first half, much quiet in the second half.
LTFC fans were excellent throughout.
Nassef Sawiris was in front of us with Monchi and Chris Woakes (!). They celebrated all the goals big style.
Bumped into Sir Brian.
Question - what was the problem with the minutes silence before kick off? Seemed to be lots of shouting?
A fair few dickheads in our fans decided it would be funny to keep shouting and not respect the silence. This then led to the Luton fans calling them naughty names, so it was all extremely pathetic.
How on earth could you possibly deduce that.
And a lady fainted.
Post by: Rotterdam on March 04, 2024, 11:05:29 AM
Post by: London Villan on March 04, 2024, 11:13:05 AM
Where did it go wrong in the second half - we've let that happen a few times this season and got away with it against Forest, Luton and FUlham, but not Man Utd.pretty much from the re-start it was a different game , that got progressively worse for us until about the 84th minute
But why? This has happened too many times for it to be something specific we do or stop doing.
Post by: LeeB on March 04, 2024, 11:29:49 AM
Where did it go wrong in the second half - we've let that happen a few times this season and got away with it against Forest, Luton and FUlham, but not Man Utd.pretty much from the re-start it was a different game , that got progressively worse for us until about the 84th minute
But why? This has happened too many times for it to be something specific we do or stop doing.
We play a very controlled way and when the opposition change we struggle sometimes to adapt, but we generally do adapt eventually (we did it a bit quicker last week againts Forest).
It's just something we're still working out as we're still a work in progress effectively, but I do think Saturday's win is actually more beneficial than a second half stroll long term as it solidifies belief in ourselves.
Post by: brontebilly on March 04, 2024, 11:37:25 AM
Emery on the 79th minute rescued a bad situation that was unfolding, very good management really. Other previous managers we've had (i'm not going to name names), under such pressure would have gone to the dugout, sat down and adopted the crash position.
Result goes the other way and he gets criticised for delaying the changes. Like he was against Newcastle and Chelsea. That's the lot of a manager. With Rogers on a yellow I thought he could have tried swapping Tielemans and Rogers a good bit earlier. But it wouldn't have made much difference to how we defended those two set pieces.
It's a bit concerning in the last three games we crucified three very average teams early on but let them back into the game with some appalling defending. Constantly changing CBs hasn't helped and we are physically weak at set pieces anyway. Also with Ramsey injured again we really look out of options for cover now on that left side. I'd actually try Bailey there v Ajax with Digne behind him. Try McGinn on the right and Tim in next to Luiz. I'm not sure Tielemans deserves the hold his spot but maybe his guile would be more useful than Diaby's speed.
Post by: oldtimernow on March 04, 2024, 11:38:57 AM
they should be made to sit down and rewatch their actions with a Devil's advocate , justifying why they made that decision.
Post by: brontebilly on March 04, 2024, 11:49:45 AM
Do Refs have match /game appraisals because Oliver's would be a stinker?
they should be made to sit down and rewatch their actions with a Devil's advocate , justifying why they made that decision.
Refs often play with struggling teams at home when they are pushing to get back in the game, it's more sub conscious than deliberate. It's tin hat stuff to think he has it in for us though. I think there is far too much made of his performance on here. Sure Luiz yellow was nonsense and I thought Rogers was also for a nothing foul (his first one more of a yellow). But Konsa should have been definitely booked for his foul before their second goal and at least one of Tim's fouls fell into the cynical category, one I liked on edge of their box for example. Watkins couldn't buy a foul in second half but again that happens.
Oliver had nothing to do with the two goals we conceded nor Morris big chance to put Luton ahead. I'm afraid a ring rusty Konsa was far more to blame for all three.
Post by: Clampy on March 04, 2024, 11:53:35 AM
Post by: Risso on March 04, 2024, 11:54:30 AM
Do Refs have match /game appraisals because Oliver's would be a stinker?
they should be made to sit down and rewatch their actions with a Devil's advocate , justifying why they made that decision.
Yes they do.
Post by: VillaTim on March 04, 2024, 11:55:21 AM
I thought Emery should have changed things sooner in the 2nd half , we were getting overrun down the right wing.Emery on the 79th minute rescued a bad situation that was unfolding, very good management really. Other previous managers we've had (i'm not going to name names), under such pressure would have gone to the dugout, sat down and adopted the crash position.
Result goes the other way and he gets criticised for delaying the changes. Like he was against Newcastle and Chelsea. That's the lot of a manager. With Rogers on a yellow I thought he could have tried swapping Tielemans and Rogers a good bit earlier. But it wouldn't have made much difference to how we defended those two set pieces.
It's a bit concerning in the last three games we crucified three very average teams early on but let them back into the game with some appalling defending. Constantly changing CBs hasn't helped and we are physically weak at set pieces anyway. Also with Ramsey injured again we really look out of options for cover now on that left side. I'd actually try Bailey there v Ajax with Digne behind him. Try McGinn on the right and Tim in next to Luiz. I'm not sure Tielemans deserves the hold his spot but maybe his guile would be more useful than Diaby's speed.
The defence isn't right, Lenglet is not the answer and i would certainly not make the loan a permanent move, let him be Barca's issue come May.
As for playing Irogbunam, yes maybe vs Ajax but he's not ready for League games in my opinion, Tielemans all day long.
Post by: Somniloquism on March 04, 2024, 11:59:30 AM
How was Konsa to blame for the first one?
It was Konsa (under pressure) who actually headed it back across the box for the first chance, then didn't do enough to stop the second ball played across from the same player when Cash cleared. However I don't think it was ring rust but a mis-match in physique between Morris and Konsa.
Post by: Clampy on March 04, 2024, 12:13:56 PM
Post by: ez on March 04, 2024, 12:22:12 PM
The main fault for the first was Lenglet not leaving it for Emi to pick up.I remember Lenglet I think leaving the ball for Emi at Fulham. That didn't go well.
Post by: VillaTim on March 04, 2024, 12:24:39 PM
The main fault for the first was Lenglet not leaving it for Emi to pick up.2 weeks running he's been involved in a mix up.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on March 04, 2024, 12:27:02 PM
The main fault for the first was Lenglet not leaving it for Emi to pick up.
Konsa had the chance to stop all this unfolding, though, he headed it right back into the danger area.
Post by: Somniloquism on March 04, 2024, 12:27:11 PM
Post by: LeeB on March 04, 2024, 12:29:10 PM
The problem was Alan Smith chose that exact moment to comment that Villa had handled every ball in pretty well so far, so that sealed that fate.
Post by: Keeno on March 04, 2024, 01:01:01 PM
And you don't think the first directly led to the second. How many people were stating he should have put it into row Z regardless of the call in the Fulham post match? And how many of the same people are now stating he should have left it for Emi to collect this week? Poor man can't win.
Yeah it's a fair point - I think he did the right thing in clearing it. What we then go and do in a totally different phase of play is then poor, but not related to that decision.
Post by: dave shelley on March 04, 2024, 01:10:11 PM
I thought Emery should have changed things sooner in the 2nd half , we were getting overrun down the right wing.Emery on the 79th minute rescued a bad situation that was unfolding, very good management really. Other previous managers we've had (i'm not going to name names), under such pressure would have gone to the dugout, sat down and adopted the crash position.
Result goes the other way and he gets criticised for delaying the changes. Like he was against Newcastle and Chelsea. That's the lot of a manager. With Rogers on a yellow I thought he could have tried swapping Tielemans and Rogers a good bit earlier. But it wouldn't have made much difference to how we defended those two set pieces.
It's a bit concerning in the last three games we crucified three very average teams early on but let them back into the game with some appalling defending. Constantly changing CBs hasn't helped and we are physically weak at set pieces anyway. Also with Ramsey injured again we really look out of options for cover now on that left side. I'd actually try Bailey there v Ajax with Digne behind him. Try McGinn on the right and Tim in next to Luiz. I'm not sure Tielemans deserves the hold his spot but maybe his guile would be more useful than Diaby's speed.
The defence isn't right, Lenglet is not the answer and i would certainly not make the loan a permanent move, let him be Barca's issue come May.
As for playing Irogbunam, yes maybe vs Ajax but he's not ready for League games in my opinion, Tielemans all day long.
Regarding that last sentence. What criteria do you suggest be used to decide when Irogebunam is ready for first team league action? To gain experience in league football; you need to be playing it, you're not going to get it if sitting on the bench or in the U21's. Tim is being nurtured by an exceptional coaching team and is being slowly taught to walk before he can run, he only gets that by degrees and those minutes he's getting now will increase in time as he learns. I would back Emery's appraisal of how he's developing over yours any day.
Post by: Smithy on March 04, 2024, 01:26:04 PM
Anyone who knows the xG shit know why our XG on the end of the match was 1.83 and Luton's was 2.28?
Because xG means the grand total of fuck all.
Luton's first goal was probably counted as 2/3 seperate chances, with the xG total going up for each one
Understat shows it better than most and they have the 3 chances as .71, .64 and .79 (goal). So yeah, the number is very misleading.
That's exactly what it is. It was a scrappy goal to lose, but people forget the brilliant goal-line clearance from the first header, and the save Emi made on the floor from the same player before Chong scored. So in that 4 or 5 second period of play, they had three excellent chances to score that added up to 2.14 "expected goals". It's an anomaly of the Xg system that all of those chances are count separately, even though only one of them could ever have counted as a goal. If you only count the Chong chance, then their Xg for the game is about 1, which is about right.
Post by: Clark W Griswold on March 04, 2024, 01:26:34 PM
As for Longlet, i don't see him as anyone's 'issue'. He's one of the weaker players in a 4th place PL team in his first season in the PL, and he's only been standing in for injuries. When i see some of the criticism players have got this season i think some people must have a short memory of the dross that we had playing for us between 2010-2020, really not that long ago.
I agree that i thought at the time that Emery would have changed it a bit earlier than he did, but ultimately we won another away game so who cares?
Post by: Smithy on March 04, 2024, 01:29:50 PM
Like Rogers, Tim needs to get a bit of game time late on in games till the end of the season. All good experience and it'll give first 11 players a breather.
As for Longlet, i don't see him as anyone's 'problem'. He's one of the weaker players in a 4th place PL team in his first season in the PL, and he's only been standing in for injuries. When i see some of the criticism players have got this season i think some people must have a short memory of the dross that we had playing for us between 2010-2020, really not that long ago.
I agree that i thought at the time that Emery would have changed it a bit earlier than he did, but ultimately we won another away game so who cares?
Lenglet was on-loan at Spurs last season, and played something like 30 games for them. Though I agree with everything you said, he does have premier league experience.
Post by: Clark W Griswold on March 04, 2024, 01:31:44 PM
Post by: VillaTim on March 04, 2024, 01:43:36 PM
Ah, true. Still, as i say he's hardly an issue though. Just not as good as Torres, but there aren't many who are.But there are issues with our defence and the way i see it Lenglet is part of the problem. The sooner Torres / Mings are back the better.
Post by: Risso on March 04, 2024, 01:44:53 PM
Post by: VillaTim on March 04, 2024, 01:46:15 PM
Well Mings isn't going to be until next season, so Lenglet is going to continue to have a part to play until the end of the season, either as starter or first sub as things stand.Ideally he plays at Ajax and is on the bench Sunday when Torres returns.
Post by: chrisw1 on March 04, 2024, 01:50:23 PM
Obviously, he's not as good on the ball as Pau and he's not as good as Tyrone defensively. But frankly very few players are.
Post by: brontebilly on March 04, 2024, 01:50:37 PM
The main fault for the first was Lenglet not leaving it for Emi to pick up.
If in doubt put it out...thought Lenglet had a decent game and wouldn't blame him at all for the goal. Martinez wasn't outstanding either on the second ball. Konsa had a shocker of a second half
Post by: Clampy on March 04, 2024, 02:05:55 PM
The main fault for the first was Lenglet not leaving it for Emi to pick up.
If in doubt put it out...thought Lenglet had a decent game and wouldn't blame him at all for the goal. Martinez wasn't outstanding either on the second ball. Konsa had a shocker of a second half
But we won Bronte. You can try acknowledging that as well once in a while.
Post by: VillaTim on March 04, 2024, 02:07:02 PM
There was really no pressure on Lenglet at all, it was very different to the Fulham goal where the bloke was bearing down.The main fault for the first was Lenglet not leaving it for Emi to pick up.
If in doubt put it out...thought Lenglet had a decent game and wouldn't blame him at all for the goal. Martinez wasn't outstanding either on the second ball. Konsa had a shocker of a second half
At Fulham you take no risks - Row Z
At Luton there is no player incoming the ball is landing safely with Martinez, let the keeper claim it.
Also watch the corner for goal 1 , Lenglet is all over the place and is on the deck unchallenged when the ball goes in the net.
Post by: eric woolban woolban on March 04, 2024, 02:16:30 PM
Post by: Clampy on March 04, 2024, 02:17:33 PM
Who is the commentator on Villa's official feed? Is it Mark Regan?
Yes, I think so.
Post by: Risso on March 04, 2024, 02:21:55 PM
I was right behind our goal in the first half and there were several occasions when Emi and the defenders had stern words between each other. I wouldn't say they were rattled but they were deifnitely finding it tricky to get the passing game going from our area, the Luton players just wouldn't let them settle.
Post by: VILLA MOLE on March 04, 2024, 02:45:05 PM
We also lot the out ball for Ollie who was having a lot of success or fouls in the first half
Post by: UK Redsox on March 04, 2024, 02:46:56 PM
Who is the commentator on Villa's official feed? Is it Mark Regan?
Yes, I think so.
What's happened to Jack Woodward ?
Post by: Clampy on March 04, 2024, 02:52:02 PM
Who is the commentator on Villa's official feed? Is it Mark Regan?
Yes, I think so.
What's happened to Jack Woodward ?
I think he's still singing songs in the bath.
Lovely chap mind.
Post by: Hookeysmith on March 04, 2024, 03:01:28 PM
It was certainly as bad as the one given against Ramsay vs Sheffield when Bailey scored after about a minute of the alleged foul.
Post by: dave shelley on March 04, 2024, 05:45:03 PM
Who is the commentator on Villa's official feed? Is it Mark Regan?
Yes, I think so.
What's happened to Jack Woodward ?
He does U23's from Bodymoor on occasions.
Post by: Somniloquism on March 04, 2024, 06:03:31 PM
There was really no pressure on Lenglet at all, it was very different to the Fulham goal where the bloke was bearing down.The main fault for the first was Lenglet not leaving it for Emi to pick up.
If in doubt put it out...thought Lenglet had a decent game and wouldn't blame him at all for the goal. Martinez wasn't outstanding either on the second ball. Konsa had a shocker of a second half
At Fulham you take no risks - Row Z
At Luton there is no player incoming the ball is landing safely with Martinez, let the keeper claim it.
Also watch the corner for goal 1 , Lenglet is all over the place and is on the deck unchallenged when the ball goes in the net.
Captain Hindsight works his wonders again. If you remember at Fulham, he would have had to go through Martinez to get the ball to send it to row Z as Martinez actually came out at totally the wrong angle for the cross.
As for the all over the place. He saw the ball was over him and tried to flick it over the head of the far post attacker. It was an inch too high for him which then took him out of the game. Watch Luiz, Watkins, McGinn and Rogers not move from when Konsa heads back into the danger zone compared to the Luton players reactions. Moreno is the only player of ours who tries to get back and moves more then 1 yard.
Post by: Somniloquism on March 04, 2024, 06:07:57 PM
I have not seen this raised anywhere but for their first goal Chong was clearly impeding / holding Emi when the first cross came in and from that point total chaos ensued that caused the goal.
It was certainly as bad as the one given against Ramsay vs Sheffield when Bailey scored after about a minute of the alleged foul.
They normally give a little give-take battle and all Chong really did was stop emi moving out in the box, (although it was too high for him to claim anyway). If Ramsey hadn't have hooked the keepers arm in desperation of being strong armed out of the way by the defender, I doubt they would have given it (although I still think it was several phases of play later so shouldn't have counted).
Post by: VillaTim on March 04, 2024, 07:12:29 PM
Thank you, you've done a great job articulating how poorly he defended the corner which resulted in him on his arse in a seated position watching them score instead of helping defend a key moment.There was really no pressure on Lenglet at all, it was very different to the Fulham goal where the bloke was bearing down.The main fault for the first was Lenglet not leaving it for Emi to pick up.
If in doubt put it out...thought Lenglet had a decent game and wouldn't blame him at all for the goal. Martinez wasn't outstanding either on the second ball. Konsa had a shocker of a second half
At Fulham you take no risks - Row Z
At Luton there is no player incoming the ball is landing safely with Martinez, let the keeper claim it.
Also watch the corner for goal 1 , Lenglet is all over the place and is on the deck unchallenged when the ball goes in the net.
Captain Hindsight works his wonders again. If you remember at Fulham, he would have had to go through Martinez to get the ball to send it to row Z as Martinez actually came out at totally the wrong angle for the cross.
As for the all over the place. He saw the ball was over him and tried to flick it over the head of the far post attacker. It was an inch too high for him which then took him out of the game. Watch Luiz, Watkins, McGinn and Rogers not move from when Konsa heads back into the danger zone compared to the Luton players reactions. Moreno is the only player of ours who tries to get back and moves more then 1 yard.
Post by: Somniloquism on March 05, 2024, 02:37:41 PM
Thank you, you've done a great job articulating how poorly he defended the corner which resulted in him on his arse in a seated position watching them score instead of helping defend a key moment.
He did more to try to defend it then any other Villa player but Cash. But he is one you don't rate so I probably shouldn't bother.
Post by: Somniloquism on March 05, 2024, 02:39:21 PM
https://www.avfc.co.uk/video/cc19807d-8029-4910-9188-2a363e61b8a6
Post by: VillaTim on March 05, 2024, 03:45:51 PM
Is that the Cash who cleared the ball off the line in Phase 1 of the corner (Lenglet was sat admiring events by this point).Thank you, you've done a great job articulating how poorly he defended the corner which resulted in him on his arse in a seated position watching them score instead of helping defend a key moment.
He did more to try to defend it then any other Villa player but Cash. But he is one you don't rate so I probably shouldn't bother.
Post by: dave shelley on March 05, 2024, 04:46:06 PM
Post by: VillaTim on March 05, 2024, 07:36:01 PM
I've seen one hell of a lot of football in my time and that goal line headed clearance by Cash was possibly the best I've ever seen, it didn't deserve the end it got.I know , a heroic headed clearance by Cash only for Konsa to head it straight back into the danger zone.