Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Toronto Villa on January 30, 2024, 10:14:46 PM
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I hope Sir Alex watched this one also and finds a silver lining.
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I miss the Villa team from a month ago ... and the Diaby from the beginning of the season.
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Turd. Utter turd
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Pathetic all round. Leaving it til after the 60th minute to make a change is really poor.
As for cash, what does he do? Can't defend, and slows all our attacks down. Genuinely, can someone explain it?
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Ref was utter corrupt scum.
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Great substitution by Howe, bringing Zaniolo on.
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Back to the drawing board to come up with a plan b and c.
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We were crap. It is what it is, The news a couple of days ago shows it's not worth getting worked up over.
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Bailey’s positive impact on the game has been offset by Zaniolo’s negative impact following the substitutions.
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Walking pace up to 0-3. 10 minutes of huff and puff when Bailey came on.
Other than Bailey everybody was awful. Special mention to Zaniolo, he looks as if he's playing with a blindfold and he's trying to listen for the bell in the ball.
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We look and are jaded. To be fair to Newcastle they were very good and completely sussed us out.
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The frustrating thing is that Newcastle are bang average. Just like on that first game of the season, they've made us look awful without actually being good themselves. So, so frustrating. We played right into their oily hands as we did in August or whenever the fuck it was up there. They literally banged diagonal balls over Matt Cash. As they did in fucking August.
Diaby needs taking out the team for a few games - at the very least benching. His confidence is completely and obviously shot. Bailey made us immediately 100% better we he came on and is currently our best attacking player by a mile - first big cock up from Emery starting Diaby today but he's got all of the worlds gold in the bank so I'll let him off!
So, prepare yourselves for Spurs winning tomorrow and replacing us in 4th and an absolute ****** full of media talking heads saying that our inevitable 'dip' has started (and then, even worse, that we should be grateful for having breathed the purified air among the 'elite' for as long as we did). I can't wait.
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Let’s see if Emery starts Diaby again next game.
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Great substitution by Howe, bringing Zaniolo on.
Ha ha ha very good
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Shite. Too many passengers and the bus has ground to a halt. We don't even look like we can think of another way of playing. And we've wasted January pissing about when we probably could have done more.
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Ref was utter corrupt scum.
Really? We get badly outthought, outfought and outclassed and thats the takeaway?
What exactly do you think the ref got wrong?
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Players who currently don't look good enough for where we want to be:
Cash
Lenglet
Moreno (!)
Zaniolo
Diaby
Duran
Giving Ramsey a pass for his significant previous contributions and injury issues.
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We were crap. It is what it is, The news a couple of days ago shows it's not worth getting worked up over.
? Klopp leaving? Oh sorry just realised. None meant.
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Fucking garbage. If Diaby could remember how to kick a ball that would be great.
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Schooled in every department. Our movement is poor, ponderous moving the ball. The positive is that we won the last third of the game and have something to build on. I hope to fuck we have more coming in over the next two days. That was a tough watch, again.
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Teams have sussed our high line out. Runners from deep and were caught open time and again.
Midfield were completely open and the forwards anonymous. Only ones with any credit were Bailey and Martinez.
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Sigh. Looks very much like our top 4 goose is cooked. There is no way this team gets anything from Chris Wilder's rugby team. Newcastle wiped the floor with us from start to finish every bit as much as we did to them at VP last season.
The most worrying thing is we are not creating anything, our forward play has reverted to Gerrardball. And I don't know how we fix it.
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Jenas sounds far to happy for Newcastle.
Crouch is just a complete non knowledgeable football pundit so don't need to see it hear anymore analysis yo why we were so poor from them.
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We were crap. It is what it is, The news a couple of days ago shows it's not worth getting worked up over.
What news?
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This is Aston Villa. This is what we do. For this see Coventry 1993, Norwich 1990, see stoke 2008 or whenever. It’s endemic I don’t know how we will ever change. Top 7 if we are lucky in my view.
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Tough watch. That result has been coming since Christmas - you just can’t play Emery’s way with passengers and at the moment we’re carrying more than one.
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Games like this make me really frustrated with Emery. Howe is not one of the greats, but he's sussed Unai's tactics out good and proper. We looked dreadful.
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Emery had a nightmare. From setting up with a high line - no press (again), to sticking with Diaby over Bailey. We’ve been largely rubbish for 6/7 weeks.
Howe has done a right number on Emery this season.
Only McGinn, Luiz, Watkins and Bailey come out with any credit.
I’d send Zaniolo back tomorrow. With or without a replacement. Singlehandedly tried to slow every attack we head, with added moronic fouling.
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Schooled in every department.
OK, I'm seeing this said as if Newcastle were good. They weren't. They do two things: 1) they defend; 2) balls over the top, maybe win a set-piece. Emery's Villa just lost to O'Neill's Villa.
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Players who currently don't look good enough for where we want to be:
Cash
Lenglet
Moreno (!)
Zaniolo
Diaby
Duran
Giving Ramsey a pass for his significant previous contributions and injury issues.
Very concerned about Diaby. He looks completely lost.
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The loss of Pau Torres has been immense. We are completely different coming out of defence. Add to that Digne being out really hurts. That’s half of the defensive 4 and the likes of Lenglet and Moreno simply aren't as good.
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Our form has been regressing for weeks now.
It was going to get better or worse, it got worse.
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Appalling on the pitch, appalling on the bench as well. Comfortably the worst performance under Emery and we do look flat, unmotivated and ordinary, the polar opposite of the last 12 months or so.
Here is the time that perhaps was invetable, an elongated drop in form for both team and Manager, the sort that got him the sack at Woolwich. We don't want that sort of nonsense and I think we can can look forward to a glorious Spring. Tonight was hard to watch though, very hard.
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I’m starting to get really concerned about the lack of a plan b. High line or nothing which has now been found out. No answer to teams sitting back. Worrying.
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Outclassed in every department? They were more physical and had the rub of the ref and got a few jammy goals.
If that's the price for for selling out to a disgrace of a regime, let them have it.
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Welcome back 1998/99 season. Hey ho. Safe journey home all, good night.
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Schooled in every department.
OK, I'm seeing this said as if Newcastle were good. They weren't. They do two things: 1) they defend; 2) balls over the top, maybe win a set-piece. Emery's Villa just lost to O'Neill's Villa.
Is how I saw / see it too. We were just bullied in the first half and they score daft goals.
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The tactic in the first half of the long ball to Diaby up against Burn was a particular highlight.
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We were crap. It is what it is, The news a couple of days ago shows it's not worth getting worked up over.
What news?
One of our most esteemed posters/members of H&V community passed away at a relatively young age.
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This is Aston Villa. This is what we do. For this see Coventry 1993, Norwich 1990, see stoke 2008 or whenever. It’s endemic I don’t know how we will ever change. Top 7 if we are lucky in my view.
Oldham every fucking year it seemed too
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Teams have learnt to put the super press on us as we try and play it out from Emi.
The result is we lose the ball and put ourselves under pressure.
Emery needs a plan B and soon.
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If we had an alternative way of playing sometimes, I would be far happier. I don't know if it's a particularly Villa curse: all managers are doomed to be hoist by their one tactical idea.
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Schooled in every department.
OK, I'm seeing this said as if Newcastle were good. They weren't. They do two things: 1) they defend; 2) balls over the top, maybe win a set-piece. Emery's Villa just lost to O'Neill's Villa.
The worked hard to close us down, they were more aggressive, cynical fouls and slowing the game down when they needed to. Better, quicker passing than us. Easy to see. Newcastle were better, they are poor, yes, but so are we at the moment.
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Absolutely pathetic, bar a few mins where Bailey had come on.
This is a bit of a culmination of a downtrend in performances - can be no argument now it really isn’t working. Offside trap was all over the shop, completely disjointed - midfield and attack had no zip and Unai made some poor personnel choices, not starting Bailey being the obvious one.
Needs a proper turnaround, because we were completely outplayed and overrun whilst it was still a contest.
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We’ve been shit since we changed out wet look kit. Heck out.
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5 yellow cards in his last 11 apps in all comps is funny to me.
Make that 6 in 12 now.
As soon as he came on I had him to be shown a card. It's too easy...
This guy could come on for the last minute of injury time and I'd still fancy him to somehow get booked.
7 yellow cards in 14 and I'm £175 richer. Zaniooooooooolo
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Great substitution by Howe, bringing Zaniolo on.
Another awful cameo form Zaniolo. I have no idea what he brings to the team. All he did tonight was jog around fouling people.
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Fucking appalling.
If we don't get Torres back soon & have to continue with that fucking statue Lenglet, we wont be winning many games any time soon.
How the fuck such big clubs have either had him playing for them, or want him to play for them is fucking beyond me.
He just doesn't suit our style of play & it affects everyone around him.
Diaby shit. McGinn shit. Fucking all of them were shit, except a cameo from Bailey.
I fucking hate losing to those deluded fucking gimps too.
Fuck this shit, Im going to bed...
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Schooled in every department.
OK, I'm seeing this said as if Newcastle were good. They weren't. They do two things: 1) they defend; 2) balls over the top, maybe win a set-piece. Emery's Villa just lost to O'Neill's Villa.
The worked hard to close us down, they were more aggressive, cynical fouls and slowing the game down when they needed to. Better, quicker passing than us. Easy to see. Newcastle were better, they are poor, yes, but so are we at the moment.
Their 'passing' is hoofing it ahead of Gordon and getting him to sprint at it. Hey, when it works, it works. But it is very MON.
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Schooled in every department.
OK, I'm seeing this said as if Newcastle were good. They weren't. They do two things: 1) they defend; 2) balls over the top, maybe win a set-piece. Emery's Villa just lost to O'Neill's Villa.
The worked hard to close us down, they were more aggressive, cynical fouls and slowing the game down when they needed to. Better, quicker passing than us. Easy to see. Newcastle were better, they are poor, yes, but so are we at the moment.
Their 'passing' is hoofing it ahead of Gordon and getting him to sprint at it. Hey, when it works, it works. But it is very MON.
And it worked. What was the score? Lucky goals or not, their plan was better than ours. Hoof ball works with a high line.
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Well that was rubbish.
Diaby - shite
Moreno - shite
Cash - shite
Zaniolo - shite
Crowd - shite
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Miss Digne more than I ever thought we would. Bailey has to start every game. Tielemans finding his way back after injury.
Main thing though the high line is easily worked out by decent managers. Has Emery got any plan B's I wonder.
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Moreno was really, really bad but he was also constantly completely on his own. I don’t know who was meant to be out there to support but they weren’t, he just kept having to cut back.
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If you have no attacking ability, then you are constantly defending, that was the first half.
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Poor.
Twitter isn't the place to be after a loss. Fancy not being a Villa fan, but moments after they lose, heading to Villa's/supporter's twitter page to write things such as:
'small club'
'we own you'
'cry more'
'L'
'back to default'
Or post photos of twattish footballers doing twattish goal celebrations and somehow linking that to a Villa defeat.
Twats
I hope as a club we've also banned any possible Saudi team photos after the game.
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Schooled in every department.
OK, I'm seeing this said as if Newcastle were good. They weren't. They do two things: 1) they defend; 2) balls over the top, maybe win a set-piece. Emery's Villa just lost to O'Neill's Villa.
The worked hard to close us down, they were more aggressive, cynical fouls and slowing the game down when they needed to. Better, quicker passing than us. Easy to see. Newcastle were better, they are poor, yes, but so are we at the moment.
Their 'passing' is hoofing it ahead of Gordon and getting him to sprint at it. Hey, when it works, it works. But it is very MON.
It worked against us a damn sight better than whatever our plan was to create chances vs them. We need to find out again how to do those blitzkrieg starts to games we used to. Kick to the Holte, score an early goal or two, control the game.
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Schooled in every department.
OK, I'm seeing this said as if Newcastle were good. They weren't. They do two things: 1) they defend; 2) balls over the top, maybe win a set-piece. Emery's Villa just lost to O'Neill's Villa.
The worked hard to close us down, they were more aggressive, cynical fouls and slowing the game down when they needed to. Better, quicker passing than us. Easy to see. Newcastle were better, they are poor, yes, but so are we at the moment.
Their 'passing' is hoofing it ahead of Gordon and getting him to sprint at it. Hey, when it works, it works. But it is very MON.
And it worked. What was the score? Lucky goals or not, their plan was better than ours. Hoof ball works with a high line.
We're 11 points ahead of them.
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Based on my observations, the manner of the performance has taken me by surprise.
It's so unexpected not only because of our home record, but also because I thought the players and squad understood what Emery demanded from them.
Douglas Luiz was so poor trying little to stop the goal from the corner.
Clearly, some were unable to implement, and a positive is that Emery will of course examine things.
Diaby and Cash were my primary gripes, aside from the bad discipline from the midfielders for yellow cards and Zaniolo poor cameo.
Cash inability in providing consistent quality crosses or passes and his lack of footy intelligence in defending and general play is a hinderance which allowed Newcastle to enjoy attacks up the left flank Villas right.
I also thought it was incorrect to start Luiz, Kamara, McGinn, and Tielemans.
Bailey should start in the next home encounter against Manchester United, just as he should have tonight.
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Poor.
Twitter isn't the place to be after a loss. Fancy not being a Villa fan, but moments after they lose, heading to Villa's/supporter's twitter page to write things such as:
'small club'
'we own you'
'cry more'
'L'
'back to default'
Or post photos of twattish footballers doing twattish goal celebrations and somehow linking that to a Villa defeat.
Twats
Miss Digne more than I ever thought we would. Bailey has to start every game. Tielemans finding his way back after injury.
Main thing though the high line is easily worked out by decent managers. Has Emery got any plan B's I wonder.
It’s nonsense to say the high line is worked out - it’s just we played it amazingly badly and put zero pressure on the ball.
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We were crap. It is what it is, The news a couple of days ago shows it's not worth getting worked up over.
What news?
One of our most esteemed posters/members of H&V community passed away at a relatively young age.
I only met Stu the once a dog's age ago in The Barton. But I just can't help feeling he'd want us to be pissed off tonight...
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Schooled in every department.
OK, I'm seeing this said as if Newcastle were good. They weren't. They do two things: 1) they defend; 2) balls over the top, maybe win a set-piece. Emery's Villa just lost to O'Neill's Villa.
The worked hard to close us down, they were more aggressive, cynical fouls and slowing the game down when they needed to. Better, quicker passing than us. Easy to see. Newcastle were better, they are poor, yes, but so are we at the moment.
Their 'passing' is hoofing it ahead of Gordon and getting him to sprint at it. Hey, when it works, it works. But it is very MON.
And it worked. What was the score? Lucky goals or not, their plan was better than ours. Hoof ball works with a high line.
We're 11 points ahead of them.
Let's hope it stays that way eh?
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Despite all the justified criticism, we probably would have won had Bailey started instead of Diaby. Now he’ll probably play at Sheff Utd and turn in his usual shit away performance.
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Emery had a nightmare. From setting up with a high line - no press (again), to sticking with Diaby over Bailey. We’ve been largely rubbish for 6/7 weeks.
Howe has done a right number on Emery this season.
Only McGinn, Luiz, Watkins and Bailey come out with any credit.
I’d send Zaniolo back tomorrow. With or without a replacement. Singlehandedly tried to slow every attack we head, with added moronic fouling.
At least he turned his back on that smug bastard Tindalls offer of a handshake
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Well Sheffield Utd away will be an interesting but very winnable match to get back on track.
Unfortunately today just not enough players at it and didn't deserve to win.
Very disappointing but it's all part of the process in improving and in general we are.
Up The Villa!
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Diaby again had an ineffective evening. Zaniolo again was completely inept.
Diaby worked hard but nothing came off for him. Zaniolo was completely inept.
Diaby can quite clearly be a force again. Zaniolo is completely inept.
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Schooled in every department.
OK, I'm seeing this said as if Newcastle were good. They weren't. They do two things: 1) they defend; 2) balls over the top, maybe win a set-piece. Emery's Villa just lost to O'Neill's Villa.
The worked hard to close us down, they were more aggressive, cynical fouls and slowing the game down when they needed to. Better, quicker passing than us. Easy to see. Newcastle were better, they are poor, yes, but so are we at the moment.
Their 'passing' is hoofing it ahead of Gordon and getting him to sprint at it. Hey, when it works, it works. But it is very MON.
And it worked. What was the score? Lucky goals or not, their plan was better than ours. Hoof ball works with a high line.
We're 11 points ahead of them.
Let's hope it stays that way eh?
It's just, 'schooled' really makes it sound like some sort of tactical masterclass, when really they did a few very basic things right and we played literally our worst game of the season (I think this was worse than the reverse fixture - we actually were in that before things went mental after an hour).
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Emery had a nightmare. From setting up with a high line - no press (again), to sticking with Diaby over Bailey. We’ve been largely rubbish for 6/7 weeks.
Howe has done a right number on Emery this season.
Only McGinn, Luiz, Watkins and Bailey come out with any credit.
I’d send Zaniolo back tomorrow. With or without a replacement. Singlehandedly tried to slow every attack we head, with added moronic fouling.
At least he turned his back on that smug bastard Tindalls offer of a handshake
Always looking to get booked.
Very strange behaviour.
Tonali his mate would have enjoyed his performance i suppose.
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Emery had a nightmare. From setting up with a high line - no press (again), to sticking with Diaby over Bailey. We’ve been largely rubbish for 6/7 weeks.
Howe has done a right number on Emery this season.
Only McGinn, Luiz, Watkins and Bailey come out with any credit.
I’d send Zaniolo back tomorrow. With or without a replacement. Singlehandedly tried to slow every attack we head, with added moronic fouling.
At least he turned his back on that smug bastard Tindalls offer of a handshake
Yeah, he won me back a tiny bit doing that.
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Great substitution by Howe, bringing Zaniolo on.
Another awful cameo form Zaniolo. I have no idea what he brings to the team. All he did tonight was jog around fouling people.
I hope we have a few kids left who can come off the bench and bring some energy to the side.
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As if things weren’t bad enough.
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Diaby again had an ineffective evening. Zaniolo again was completely inept.
Diaby worked hard but nothing came off for him. Zaniolo was completely inept.
Diaby can quite clearly be a force again. Zaniolo is completely inept.
I’d sell Diaby and send Zaniolo back.
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A word about the officials. Their goal went to VAR but wasn't shown, ours was. Flag up straight away for us but not them. It wouldn't have made any difference but these don't look like mistakes, they look deliberate.
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This is Aston Villa. This is what we do. For this see Coventry 1993, Norwich 1990, see stoke 2008 or whenever. It’s endemic I don’t know how we will ever change. Top 7 if we are lucky in my view.
Wimbledon 0-3 more relevant in 1990
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Talk of selling Diaby is knee jerk, and just daft. He’s obviously struggling a lot, but we shouldn’t give up on him. He was one of a load of dreadful performances tonight.
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Diaby again had an ineffective evening. Zaniolo again was completely inept.
Diaby worked hard but nothing came off for him. Zaniolo was completely inept.
Diaby can quite clearly be a force again. Zaniolo is completely inept.
I’d sell Diaby and send Zaniolo back.
And many would have sold Bailey last season. That’s not me saying Diaby isn’t above criticism. But it took Bailey a year to adjust. I’m not writing Diaby off yet. I don’t think Zaniolo is here next season. He simply isn’t effective.
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Talk of selling Diaby is knee jerk, and just daft. He’s obviously struggling a lot, but we shouldn’t give up on him. He was one of a load of dreadful performances tonight.
He’s been piss poor for months and he’s an Emery pick. Useless.
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One of my new year resolutions, after 60 years ( 1st game aged 8) of stressing, screaming and wailing when we lose i am going to put it into perspective.
Tonight was 1st test, I watched had, a couple of glasses of wine. we were diabolical, can I change it, No.
so as pissed off as I was, no histrionics and time for bed.
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Despite all the justified criticism, we probably would have won had Bailey started instead of Diaby. Now he’ll probably play at Sheff Utd and turn in his usual shit away performance.
And get kicked to shit in the process.
Not starting him tonight is inexplicable.
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Losing twice in the one season to that dreck. Bad.
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We look and are jaded. To be fair to Newcastle they were very good and completely sussed us out.
How are we jaded and they aren't? Jaded has nothing to do with it, had 2 weeks off almost until Friday. Bailey has to start to give us any chance, zaniolo looks a shocking loan, and we desperately need another midfield option
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Talk of selling Diaby is knee jerk, and just daft. He’s obviously struggling a lot, but we shouldn’t give up on him. He was one of a load of dreadful performances tonight.
He’s been piss poor for months and he’s an Emery pick. Useless.
Agree we played with 10 men.
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Fucking shite. It's been a while since the Villa have put me in such a bad mood, which probably means I'm turning into a spoiled wanker.
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Talk of selling Diaby is knee jerk, and just daft. He’s obviously struggling a lot, but we shouldn’t give up on him. He was one of a load of dreadful performances tonight.
He’s been piss poor for months and he’s an Emery pick. Useless.
He has - but I’m sure if we trawled back through the Bailey, Doug, McGinn, Digne, Watkins threads they’d all have been called out as hopeless and needing selling. Clearly he’s not playing well, but the answer isn’t just get rid.
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utter shite
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What’s going on with TNT? Howe interview on for the third time.
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Talk of selling Diaby is knee jerk, and just daft. He’s obviously struggling a lot, but we shouldn’t give up on him. He was one of a load of dreadful performances tonight.
He’s been piss poor for months and he’s an Emery pick. Useless.
All of Emery's signings are looking suspect . - Diaby / Zaniolo / Moreno
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A word about the officials. Their goal went to VAR but wasn't shown, ours was. Flag up straight away for us but not them. It wouldn't have made any difference but these don't look like mistakes, they look deliberate.
I seriously do not understand why the flag went up when the play wasnt even finished and it looked like we were about to score a tap in. It also did not look offside. That was pure cheating in my opinion
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Talk of selling Diaby is knee jerk, and just daft. He’s obviously struggling a lot, but we shouldn’t give up on him. He was one of a load of dreadful performances tonight.
He’s been piss poor for months and he’s an Emery pick. Useless.
All of Emery's signings are looking suspect . - Diaby / Zaniolo / Moreno
I think Torres is looking fucking alright though.
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Talk of selling Diaby is knee jerk, and just daft. He’s obviously struggling a lot, but we shouldn’t give up on him. He was one of a load of dreadful performances tonight.
He’s been piss poor for months and he’s an Emery pick. Useless.
All of Emery's signings are looking suspect . - Diaby / Zaniolo / Moreno
Overall, Moreno has been really good.
I think, anyway.
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Talk of selling Diaby is knee jerk, and just daft. He’s obviously struggling a lot, but we shouldn’t give up on him. He was one of a load of dreadful performances tonight.
He’s been piss poor for months and he’s an Emery pick. Useless.
All of Emery's signings are looking suspect . - Diaby / Zaniolo / Moreno
Overall, Moreno has been really good.
I think, anyway.
He was good pre injury but looks below par now
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We're still in the top 4.
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Poor.
Twitter isn't the place to be after a loss. Fancy not being a Villa fan, but moments after they lose, heading to Villa's/supporter's twitter page to write things such as:
'small club'
'we own you'
'cry more'
'L'
'back to default'
Or post photos of twattish footballers doing twattish goal celebrations and somehow linking that to a Villa defeat.
Twats
I hope as a club we've also banned any possible Saudi team photos after the game.
Meh, I have Villa in my life deliver my misery. I can't say the buffoonery of the fat shirtless army makes me feel particularly worse.
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I just think being a Newcastle fan should be a shunnable offence, like being a homophobe. Amounts to roughly the same thing anyway.
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I do think Diaby will come good, but keep starting him in this kind of form is killing any drop of confidence he has left.
Can’t believe Bailey didn’t start tonight… that one is on Emery.
However, we shouldn’t throw our toys out of the pram - We were always going to get this blip. None of us ever dreamt of being where we are just a year after the Gerrard shambles, so Unai has earned our patience imo. ,
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Torres is a huge loss, but that can’t be all of it. We just look like we’ve completely forgotten how we play - intensity, cohesion, and structure have all disappeared. I really hope this performance and result can be a bit of a blood letting, because it’s kind of been coming. People want to round on Diaby, but it’s much wider than him - the whole team has lost its way a bit, scoring 1 goal in 3 games is indicative of that.
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We were rubbish and deserved nothing.
Yet again we're making hard work of a very promising mid season position.
I think Spurs will win their next two so big pressure on us in Sheffield as we need to stop messing around and get back to winning some games.
Tonight was nowhere near good enough even at 0-0.
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We're still in the top 4.
til Spurs play tomorrow
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This team, this manager has given me an year of pure pleasure sitting in my seat at Villa Park. So whilst disappointed with the result tonight I am not going to go in hyperbole mode like some of you on here and start using awful words to describe our performance, and signalling individuals out in most unpleasant derogatory manner. Just get a grip folks.
Yes we need to take stock of where we are and go again. It’s a challenge now for Unai to recover our composure and rebuild cohesion and vibrancy that delivered unbelievable run of results. But there is no need to jump off the cliff for anyone, please stay calm.
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I just think being a Newcastle fan should be a shunnable offence, like being a homophobe. Amounts to roughly the same thing anyway.
That zit faced short back and sides look that so many of their fans have irritates me to a probably irrational degree as well
All right
Here it comes
And the men are also etc...
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Is VAR checking everything? The move that led to their corner for the first goal looked offside.
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We have to win at Sheffield. If nothing else to prevent a rot setting in.
We have not played well since Man City & Arsenal really. We have to up the tempo of our play. We only did it for about 10 mins when Bailey came on. He has to pay at home as he looks our biggest threat.
Even going back to Forest away and some of the Euro games, when we ponce around in midfield, playing tippy tappy football, we look very ordinary.
However, all is not lost. I saw the other day that Opta are quoting somewhere in the region of a 70% likely outcome that 5th will be good for champions league. We are still very capable of that, but we need to get back to how we were playing.
We need Torres back and Diaby has to turn it around or be replaced. And please give up on the Zaniolo experiment. He is terrible.
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We were due a terrible performance at home and that came in the first half. Bailey completely changed the way we played but by the time he came on it was too late Another terrible referee. Also Newcastle just look like an expensively assembled Wimbledon from circa 1989.
We need to move on and learn from this game.
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Fucking appalling.
If we don't get Torres back soon & have to continue with that fucking statue Lenglet, we wont be winning many games any time soon.
How the fuck such big clubs have either had him playing for them, or want him to play for them is fucking beyond me.
He just doesn't suit our style of play & it affects everyone around him.
Diaby shit. McGinn shit. Fucking all of them were shit, except a cameo from Bailey.
I fucking hate losing to those deluded fucking gimps too.
Fuck this shit, Im going to bed...
McGinn really wasnt shit
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Very disappointing really, not helped because Newcastle were no great shakes either. Looked better when Bailey came on which should have been at half time really. The only other player that was really on it was Mcginn.
We seem to bounce back quickly under Emery though so let's hope we do again.
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Not sure how anyone can have watched that and thought that McGinn was shit.
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Talk of selling Diaby is knee jerk, and just daft. He’s obviously struggling a lot, but we shouldn’t give up on him. He was one of a load of dreadful performances tonight.
He’s been piss poor for months and he’s an Emery pick. Useless.
All of Emery's signings are looking suspect . - Diaby / Zaniolo / Moreno
You are tedious
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Very disappointing really, not helped because Newcastle were no great shakes either. Looked better when Bailey came on which should have been at half time really. The only other player that was really on it was Mcginn.
We seem to bounce back quickly under Emery though so let's hope we do again.
Looked better for about 10 minutes when Bailey came on, until Howe put Livramento on and shut him down again.
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Luiz has been playing like he's in a trance the last few games . seems way off it
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Another major opportunity missed to put a significant points tally ahead of a potential CL spot rival. More importantly; we’ve been found out. The last month has shown that. The question now is how we address that, otherwise the season is dead.
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Talk of selling Diaby is knee jerk, and just daft. He’s obviously struggling a lot, but we shouldn’t give up on him. He was one of a load of dreadful performances tonight.
He’s been piss poor for months and he’s an Emery pick. Useless.
All of Emery's signings are looking suspect . - Diaby / Zaniolo / Moreno
You are tedious
Oh dear. I'm glad I muted him ages ago if this is how he is still going. I've not missed much.
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Not sure how anyone can have watched that and thought that McGinn was shit.
Agree, he was the stand out player.
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We have been found out, there is no doubt about it.
Every single game is Groundhog Day.
When you goalkeeper consistently receives more passes in a game than your centre forward then surely something cannot be right ?
I just don’t get it.
I don’t get why we play 90% of out football in front of the opposition, constantly and consistently playing the ball slowly from side to side but not actually doing anything.
It now seems that our sole purpose is keep possession. Sod doing anything with the ball, just keep hold of it even if it means 50 passes to go 5 yards forward and 30 yards back.
Both central midfielders were terribly guilty of dilly dallying on the ball, with Dougie being particularly guilty.
A midfield general who has an incredible amount of the ball and yet tonight did fuck all to influence the game.
Diaby, must be in the mother of all sulks because he has been awful for months.
I love Unai, I love what he has done for us.
But bloody hell, he has to shake things up, modify the way play and give us more spark, energy and oomph.
Oh, for a Brighton or Man City performance again. Wouldn’t that be nice?
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I didn't think we were terrible, just not anywhere near the heights of other games this year.
We looked slow to move the ball forward and allowed Newcastle to get set into their defensive positions but we've pretty much always done that under Emery. I thought it was a pretty even game in which they were more clinical than we were.
Another day we dont conceded from corners and sneak it.
I haven't seen any replays but I thought One of our players was clearly fouled when heading the ball away just before the second goal, anywhere else on the field its a foul.
We need to get back into our stride, and quickly.
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This team, this manager has given me an year of pure pleasure sitting in my seat at Villa Park. So whilst disappointed with the result tonight I am not going to go in hyperbole mode like some of you on here and start using awful words to describe our performance, and signalling individuals out in most unpleasant derogatory manner. Just get a grip folks.
Yes we need to take stock of where we are and go again. It’s a challenge now for Unai to recover our composure and rebuild cohesion and vibrancy that delivered unbelievable run of results. But there is no need to jump off the cliff for anyone, please stay calm.
Agreed 100%.
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We do seem to have lost our mojo for want of a better word, especially in the final third. I'm not sure we've been found out as such, we've just lost what spark we had.
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Not sure how anyone can have watched that and thought that McGinn was shit.
He thinks with his arse first a bit too much though.
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Teams have learnt to put the super press on us as we try and play it out from Emi.
The result is we lose the ball and put ourselves under pressure.
Emery needs a plan B and soon.
This. Time and time again we boxed ourselves in.
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We certainly lacked intensity in and out of possession, and only found it when we were 3 down, dead and buried.
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It's all gone Pete Tong ever since Heck delivered his State of the Union prior to the Sheffield United game!!
Diaby never appears to have full control of the ball, he looks miles off it.
A very flat team performance.
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No movement off the ball in the first hour. There appeared to be no confidence and it was all too slow. But after the substitutions, it vastly improved for a while which gave me some hope that the dip might end soon. Zaniolo did okay but Bailey was superb. Watkins did okay once he had some service and if he had delayed his run for a scond for the offside goal we might have got something out of that. McGinn worked hard all game as well but not sure that Diaby should ever wear a Villa shirt again.
Finally, Martinez must have nightmares playing behind Lenglet.
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This has been coming for a while because we haven’t played well for weeks. It’s not a sudden, one off dip but a gradual one. The loss of Torres and drop in form of Diaby is massive for us.
Hopefully Torres won’t be out for much longer and I’d definitely start Bailey on Saturday.
We’ve been sussed out tactically and have to move the ball quicker to get round teams playing deep. This drop off was always going to come but let’s hope it’s not for much longer.
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No movement off the ball in the first hour. There appeared to be no confidence and it was all too slow. But after the substitutions, it vastly improved for a while which gave me some hope that the dip might end soon. Zaniolo did okay but Bailey was superb. Watkins did okay once he had some service and if he had delayed his run for a scond for the offside goal we might have got something out of that. McGinn worked hard all game as well but not sure that Diaby should ever wear a Villa shirt again.
Finally, Martinez must have nightmares playing behind Lenglet.
looks like a very expensive record signing flop.
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Thought Lenglet made some important blocks and looked pretty decent with the ball, with just the one error.
Easy to lose sight of the bigger picture, we are having a blip, it was always pretty certain to happen, and we are still picking up points.
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Talk of selling Diaby is knee jerk, and just daft. He’s obviously struggling a lot, but we shouldn’t give up on him. He was one of a load of dreadful performances tonight.
He’s been piss poor for months and he’s an Emery pick. Useless.
All of Emery's signings are looking suspect . - Diaby / Zaniolo / Moreno
You are tedious
Honestly, moreno was absolutely incredible last season and is still returning from a 6 month lay off, fucking get a grip
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This team, this manager has given me an year of pure pleasure sitting in my seat at Villa Park. So whilst disappointed with the result tonight I am not going to go in hyperbole mode like some of you on here and start using awful words to describe our performance, and signalling individuals out in most unpleasant derogatory manner. Just get a grip folks.
Yes we need to take stock of where we are and go again. It’s a challenge now for Unai to recover our composure and rebuild cohesion and vibrancy that delivered unbelievable run of results. But there is no need to jump off the cliff for anyone, please stay calm.
Well said!
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Talk of selling Diaby is knee jerk, and just daft. He’s obviously struggling a lot, but we shouldn’t give up on him. He was one of a load of dreadful performances tonight.
He’s been piss poor for months and he’s an Emery pick. Useless.
All of Emery's signings are looking suspect . - Diaby / Zaniolo / Moreno
You are tedious
Honestly, moreno was absolutely incredible last season and is still returning from a 6 month lay off, fucking get a grip
DimTim is just getting up to speed in his quest to become as widely considered a talker of utter horseshit as he was under his previous logins.
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Talk of selling Diaby is knee jerk, and just daft. He’s obviously struggling a lot, but we shouldn’t give up on him. He was one of a load of dreadful performances tonight.
He’s been piss poor for months and he’s an Emery pick. Useless.
All of Emery's signings are looking suspect . - Diaby / Zaniolo / Moreno
You are tedious
Honestly, moreno was absolutely incredible last season and is still returning from a 6 month lay off, fucking get a grip
DimTim is just getting up to speed in his quest to become as widely considered a talker of utter horseshit as he was under his previous logins.
thank god i've got you on ignore Pauline
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“Not sure Diaby should ever wear a Villa shirt again” - good grief.
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“Not sure Diaby should ever wear a Villa shirt again” - good grief.
Yep, unbelievable.
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Talk of selling Diaby is knee jerk, and just daft. He’s obviously struggling a lot, but we shouldn’t give up on him. He was one of a load of dreadful performances tonight.
He’s been piss poor for months and he’s an Emery pick. Useless.
All of Emery's signings are looking suspect . - Diaby / Zaniolo / Moreno
You are tedious
Honestly, moreno was absolutely incredible last season and is still returning from a 6 month lay off, fucking get a grip
DimTim is just getting up to speed in his quest to become as widely considered a talker of utter horseshit as he was under his previous logins.
thank god i've got you on ignore Pauline
Well you clearly haven't, as you've just replied to me, you hideous brain donor.
You've got even slower since your days as Coopers Injury and Silhilvilla. What have you been doing since then?
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Easy with hindsight to say the tactics & selection were wrong but you also need to match them physically. Bailey should have been on at half time.
Diaby doesn't seem to know what's being asked of him & the team don't seem to know how to play with him. He is too lightweight to play centrally or facing away from goal. He should be playing wide or on the shoulder of the centre half.
We need to bounce back quickly.
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This team, this manager has given me an year of pure pleasure sitting in my seat at Villa Park. So whilst disappointed with the result tonight I am not going to go in hyperbole mode like some of you on here and start using awful words to describe our performance, and signalling individuals out in most unpleasant derogatory manner. Just get a grip folks.
Yes we need to take stock of where we are and go again. It’s a challenge now for Unai to recover our composure and rebuild cohesion and vibrancy that delivered unbelievable run of results. But there is no need to jump off the cliff for anyone, please stay calm.
Well said!
Brilliant post!
Voice of reason.
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Talk of selling Diaby is knee jerk, and just daft. He’s obviously struggling a lot, but we shouldn’t give up on him. He was one of a load of dreadful performances tonight.
He’s been piss poor for months and he’s an Emery pick. Useless.
All of Emery's signings are looking suspect . - Diaby / Zaniolo / Moreno
You are tedious
Honestly, moreno was absolutely incredible last season and is still returning from a 6 month lay off, fucking get a grip
DimTim is just getting up to speed in his quest to become as widely considered a talker of utter horseshit as he was under his previous logins.
thank god i've got you on ignore Pauline
Well you clearly haven't, as you've just replied to me, you hideous brain donor.
You've got even slower since your days as Coopers Injury and Silhilvilla. What have you been doing since then?
Haha, what an epic fail. He's thicker than a boxing day turd.
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I think it's been highlighted already, but we miss Torres and Digne (which I never thought I would say). They had been good with the high line and were solid whereas Lenglet, Carlos and Moreno have not been as adept.
Moreno was excellent last season, but has not been the same since he returned.
If Bailey can turn things around as he has done, then there is still hope for Diaby, but he shouldn't be starting at the moment.
I was wondering whether our tactic of leaving 2 players up when defending corners contributed to our defeat. There was certainly more space in the area and we looked vulnerable from corners, aside from conceding twice in that way.
Also, it didn't pay off once as we were never able to make use of having the players up in that position.
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Couldn’t believe Bailey didn’t start, then couldn’t believe he didn’t come on at half time. The subs came on too late, Bailey made a difference, Ramsey struggled to get involved and Zaniolo was poor.
McGinn probably our best player.
Moreno got into some good positions but instead of delivering he passed back to Doug too often.
Martinez made his customary good saves but his kicking was awful unless the tactic was to aim for Dan Burns head.
Edit. Only positive was getting home quicker as most buggered off before the end.
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As abject a first 70 minutes as it gets. A performance lacking in any aspects to be competitive in this league. Lethargic, slow, ponderous. Possession for the sake of it without any intent.
Played completely into Newcastle’s hands.
The negative and passive mindset was summed up for me by our kickoff at the start of the second half. A couple of passes backwards and it was with Martinez.
McGinn was the only player to seem to give a damn until Bailey came on.
Need to change the mindset and the approach pronto to stop this season from slipping away from us.
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Zaniolo looked like a competition winner when he came on. Laughably bad.
Diarby was awful from the first kick off. Do we have to give every signing 3 seasons before they can do the basics? Can anyone come to Villa and hit the ground running like Dean Saunders?
Targeting Burn was the right idea, we didn't execute the plan at all. Cash had a couple of runs at him but wanted to chop inside all the time, the one time he didn't Burn commited and slid in and won the ball! Whenever we looked dangerous they smothered us with 3 men around the man with the ball McGinn bossed Miley Kamara seemed to do ok but Luiz was so slow and predictable in posession, I was suprised he wasn't hooked.
Bailey changed the game when he came on, why isn't he starting?
Unfortunalty that battering has been coming for a few weeks now.
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Emery must be protecting Bailey that's the only reason i can see for him not starting in front of Diaby. Those that have been knocking Watkins look at what he did when Bailey gave him service, both cracking goals, pity about the offside. Injuries are the main reason for loss of form, whether it's players injured or coming back lacking match fitness, any team would suffer. It's a pity we can't bring in two or three this month.
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Emery must be protecting Bailey that's the only reason i can see for him not starting in front of Diaby. Those that have been knocking Watkins look at what he did when Bailey gave him service, both cracking goals, pity about the offside. Injuries are the main reason for loss of form, whether it's players injured or coming back lacking match fitness, any team would suffer. It's a pity we can't bring in two or three this month.
Every team has injuries, Newcastle even more than us.
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The frustrating thing is that Newcastle are bang average. Just like on that first game of the season, they've made us look awful without actually being good themselves. So, so frustrating. We played right into their oily hands as we did in August or whenever the fuck it was up there. They literally banged diagonal balls over Matt Cash. As they did in fucking August.
Diaby needs taking out the team for a few games - at the very least benching. His confidence is completely and obviously shot. Bailey made us immediately 100% better we he came on and is currently our best attacking player by a mile - first big cock up from Emery starting Diaby today but he's got all of the worlds gold in the bank so I'll let him off!
So, prepare yourselves for Spurs winning tomorrow and replacing us in 4th and an absolute ****** full of media talking heads saying that our inevitable 'dip' has started (and then, even worse, that we should be grateful for having breathed the purified air among the 'elite' for as long as we did). I can't wait.
We don't need the media to tell us our dip has started, performance wise it has been evident for some time. Newcastle were miles better than us individually, collectively and Howe owned Emery tactically. Physically much stronger than us too.
Tactically I thought Emery had a nightmare and failing to change at half time put the tin hat on it. Lack of in game tactical changes reminded me of Dean Smith, from very early on it was clear we had no control defending their counter pressing. We simply had to drop off another 10 yards defensively. Failing to change at half time sucked any buzz from the restart. Three subs on 60 mins is really an admission he got things badly wrong. Bailey proved him wrong within minutes.
Our high offside line isn't working any more as Chelsea proved, Tielemans on left is a liability and front two miles off it. The tight midfield four that was working so well is now being exploited out wide on counter, all first half Cash was left high and dry with Gordon having a field day. Tonight was a night for tactics similar to Spurs away last season, recognise we are missing likes of Torres so sit back, keep our shape and pick our moments. We went kamikaze instead and deservedly paid the price.
Martinez 7 - fortunate with one parry but aside from that saved us from a hiding
Cash 2 - horror show defensively but not helped tactically. Idiotic Cruyff turn in midfield cost us the third, with the ball he was dreadful, even more so after Bailey came on, Bailey made a series of runs for him but Cash took the wrong option again and again
Konsa 3 - caught flat footed early on and as the most experienced player should take most responsibility for how disorganised we were. Really poor, turned like a pub player at end
Lenglet 4 - made two excellent goal saving blocks but clearly targeted by Newcastle's press early on and struggled badly yet again. Thought he should have done better with second goal. He started well for us but last two games have been horrid.
Moreno 1 - half a yard short in every aspect of his play, as poor an individual performance as I've seen from a Villa player in a long time. That injury seems to have knocked a lot of zip from him. If he was sharper he doesn't get the own goal either.
Kamara 5 - don't think centre mid was problem area but after his yellow he was anonymous. Maybe should have spotted Cash's struggles earlier and given more support.
Luiz 6 - best player first half, tidy on ball as always but body language not best at times
McGinn 6 - kept trying to the end, only outfield player to match them physically, big miss before half time
Tielemans 3 - not capable of playing that role on left, not mobile or disciplined enough. So either he drops into a midfield three or drops out
Diaby 2 - bullied from the first duel and shouldn't have seen past half time. When the big chance did come there was no conviction in shot
Watkins 6 - appalling first half but did improve a lot second half, good to see him back on the scoresheet but too little too late
Bailey was outstanding from first touch and got a brilliant assist, Zaniolo was a joke, moody teenager vibes from an experienced international, Ramsey ran around a lot without doing much but at least can get back unlike Tielemans.
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We were poor tonight, at times you would have thought we were the team with the 2 or three goal cushion constantly recycling the ball but going nowhere, I get the mantra about keeping shape, but surely there has to be a plan B! At times even in this game we tried to up the tempo, only to find one of our players slowly things. Well that’s a defeat we all knew was coming, what’s next?
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I was wondering whether our tactic of leaving 2 players up when defending corners contributed to our defeat. There was certainly more space in the area and we looked vulnerable from corners, aside from conceding twice in that way.
Also, it didn't pay off once as we were never able to make use of having the players up in that position.
Yes, that was a bit daft.
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We were poor tonight, at times you would have thought we were the team with the 2 or three goal cushion constantly recycling the ball but going nowhere, I get the mantra about keeping shape, but surely there has to be a plan B! At times even in this game we tried to up the tempo, only to find one of our players slowly things. Well that’s a defeat we all knew was coming, what’s next?
Like I’ve said elsewhere I’m hoping that’s kind of hitting bottom - as you suggest it’s kind of been coming. That can be shown back to the players and they can face into it. Time to turn it around and start playing again- oh and can we have Pau and Digne back please!
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I do fear we will have a 3-4 game bottoming out period before we start to pick up again
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Really flat performance. We only played with real tempo and purpose for a short period in the 2nd half and nearly scored twice.
It just wasn't good. Emi's kicking was uncharacteristically wayward, Cash and Moreno look way off it at the moment, Lenglet is OK as a stop gap, but always looks like there is a mistake in him, Luiz and Kamara were second best in midfield all evening and Diaby is struggling.
Hopefully we can regain our form at the weekend and in time for the cup replay.
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Jenas sounds far to happy for Newcastle.
Crouch is just a complete non knowledgeable football pundit so don't need to see it hear anymore analysis yo why we were so poor from them.
Haha. Footy
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Talk of selling Diaby is knee jerk, and just daft. He’s obviously struggling a lot, but we shouldn’t give up on him. He was one of a load of dreadful performances tonight.
He’s been piss poor for months and he’s an Emery pick. Useless.
All of Emery's signings are looking suspect . - Diaby / Zaniolo / Moreno
You are tedious
Honestly, moreno was absolutely incredible last season and is still returning from a 6 month lay off, fucking get a grip
DimTim is just getting up to speed in his quest to become as widely considered a talker of utter horseshit as he was under his previous logins.
thank god i've got you on ignore Pauline
Derr....well, clearly not as a) you saw his post, and b) you responded!!
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Fucking booooooooooooooooooooo!
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Ditto
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Easy with hindsight to say the tactics & selection were wrong but you also need to match them physically. Bailey should have been on at half time.
Diaby doesn't seem to know what's being asked of him & the team don't seem to know how to play with him. He is too lightweight to play centrally or facing away from goal. He should be playing wide or on the shoulder of the centre half.
We need to bounce back quickly.
What other line up could he have started with, given that he's said bailey has been carrying a knock?
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Emery didn’t say that. He said Bailey had a slight problem before the Chelsea game, and then he (Emery) decided to start with the same team against Newcastle.
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Tielemans 3 - not capable of playing that role on left, not mobile or disciplined enough. So either he drops into a midfield three or drops out
You're very generous, Bronty. It was as poor a midfield performance I've seen in a very, very long time. Another of our supposed talented players who went hiding. He's better of the bench. Once again he's shown he's no starter.
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This team, this manager has given me an year of pure pleasure sitting in my seat at Villa Park. So whilst disappointed with the result tonight I am not going to go in hyperbole mode like some of you on here and start using awful words to describe our performance, and signalling individuals out in most unpleasant derogatory manner. Just get a grip folks.
Yes we need to take stock of where we are and go again. It’s a challenge now for Unai to recover our composure and rebuild cohesion and vibrancy that delivered unbelievable run of results. But there is no need to jump off the cliff for anyone, please stay calm.
Steady on, MLK!
(I agree, of course, Aftab 🙂)
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I know we lost and the performance wasn’t the best. And we have looked off our game for a little while now. But there are some on social media, Twitter in particular that have just lost the lost their fucking minds. As grim as this defeat was it’s still incredible where we are and that we are very much in a fight for a CL spot even if that looks a little more remote now, and two cups. Hard to do sometimes but we need to enjoy this more.
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Those that have said that this has been coming for awhile, I agree. We haven’t reached the heights we set over the majority of 2023 since the first 15 mins at home to arsenal.
Since then we’ve not been on it. The rest of December I put down to potential fatigue by the number of games we had to play. But having had a small break and reduced games, it’s not that. We’ve been average at best.
I do wonder weather we can’t really play many other ways then what we’ve seen with the players we currently have; either front loading Diaby and Bailey down the right or the square with Tielemens at the apex. Both seem to have been found out. I’m not so sure that Torres coming back with his passing would resolving things.
I’ve said it since the last summer but I think we badly need a target man for when teams want to push us wide and we need a central midfielder who can aggressively press with pace and physicality to disrupt teams, providing more breathing room for the likes of Luiz.
One thing seems definite; the club are not going to accelerate anything for the sake of a single season, no matter how well we started. The plan is long term and it’s not budging.
Unless Emery can magic something new up I think this season could well peter out.
And one other thing is really bothering me; we’ve had two games this season which i would consider cup finals of sorts; Man Utd away and this Newcastle home game. Both were opportunities to pretty much knock out competition for a CL place by opening up a very big points lead over each. We blew both.
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Those that have said that this has been coming for awhile, I agree. We haven’t reached the heights we set over the majority of 2023 since the first 15 mins at home to arsenal.
Since then we’ve not been on it. The rest of December I put down to potential fatigue by the number of games we had to play. But having had a small break and reduced games, it’s not that. We’ve been average at best.
I do wonder weather we can’t really play many other ways then what we’ve seen with the players we currently have; either front loading Diaby and Bailey down the right or the square with Tielemens at the apex. Both seem to have been found out. I’m not so sure that Torres coming back with his passing would resolving things.
I’ve said it since the last summer but I think we badly need a target man for when teams want to push us wide and we need a central midfielder who can aggressively press with pace and physicality to disrupt teams, providing more breathing room for the likes of Luiz.
One thing seems definite; the club are not going to accelerate anything for the sake of a single season, no matter how well we started. The plan is long term and it’s not budging.
Unless Emery can magic something new up I think this season could well peter out.
And one other thing is really bothering me; we’ve had two games this season which i would consider cup finals of sorts; Man Utd away and this Newcastle home game. Both were opportunities to pretty much knock out competition for a CL place by opening up a very big points lead over each. We blew both.
I dunno we had two pretty big ‘cup finals’ against Citeh and Arse and came through them! To me it’s just the injuries have finally caught up with us and we haven’t been able to strengthen but neither have our rivals so Unai just needs to work his magic again
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Playing out from the back has become ineffective. The defenders get pushed back into the corners and the midfielders don't make themselves available.
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I think Moreno was effective last season because he combined well with Ramsey. Both are not yet up to speed. Luiz, Kamara and McGinn don't seem to be able to turn players when receiving the ball as well as they did. Kamara doesn't seem to drop in as a third centre back as much as he did. Torres is as important in an attacking sense as he is in defence.
Kicking the ball high towards a defence with an average height of 7'3" didn't help either.
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Those that have said that this has been coming for awhile, I agree. We haven’t reached the heights we set over the majority of 2023 since the first 15 mins at home to arsenal.
Since then we’ve not been on it. The rest of December I put down to potential fatigue by the number of games we had to play. But having had a small break and reduced games, it’s not that. We’ve been average at best.
I do wonder weather we can’t really play many other ways then what we’ve seen with the players we currently have; either front loading Diaby and Bailey down the right or the square with Tielemens at the apex. Both seem to have been found out. I’m not so sure that Torres coming back with his passing would resolving things.
I’ve said it since the last summer but I think we badly need a target man for when teams want to push us wide and we need a central midfielder who can aggressively press with pace and physicality to disrupt teams, providing more breathing room for the likes of Luiz.
One thing seems definite; the club are not going to accelerate anything for the sake of a single season, no matter how well we started. The plan is long term and it’s not budging.
Unless Emery can magic something new up I think this season could well peter out.
And one other thing is really bothering me; we’ve had two games this season which i would consider cup finals of sorts; Man Utd away and this Newcastle home game. Both were opportunities to pretty much knock out competition for a CL place by opening up a very big points lead over each. We blew both.
I dunno we had two pretty big ‘cup finals’ against Citeh and Arse and came through them! To me it’s just the injuries have finally caught up with us and we haven’t been able to strengthen but neither have our rivals so Unai just needs to work his magic again
No I get that. It’s just a personal gripe really. Strategically, we could have most likely knocked both into touch and haven’t. I’m sure it’s not being sold like that to the players. Just personal feeling and it’s a shame.
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I think Moreno was effective last season because he combined well with Ramsey. Both are not yet up to speed. Luiz, Kamara and McGinn don't seem to be able to turn players when receiving the ball as well as they did. Kamara doesn't seem to drop in as a third centre back as much as he did. Torres is as important in an attacking sense as he is in defence.
Kicking the ball high towards a defence with an average height of 7'3" didn't help either.
Very good points about the Moreno Ramsey link up and Torres, all massive factors for us at the moment.
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The morning after and it still feels fecking dog shit
I just cannot phantom why we were so bad. You cant blame fatigue, we had a day extra rest from Newcastle on top of the two week break.
I put that performance up there with manure 2nd half. It mirrored it. Someone meeds to remind the players its a 38 game season not a 24 one as they seem to already think we have finished in top 4 and we are gonna be fifth tonight after spurs win.
Even with torres being injured we should still be able to defend better. We also have most of our attacking players back so why are we so embarrassingly poor going forward lately? Slow taking far too many passes and just wasteful/make wrong decisions when we get in opposition box?
Losing 5-1 and 3-1 in a season is simply pathetic. They should have been determined to set the record straight after first game but acted like cowards for most of the game. Only bailey and mcginn showed some fight yesterday
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Against Brentford we lost our discipline our rhythm and Kamara.
We have struggled since then.
Those performance against Citeh and Arse seem a long way away.
I don’t think we can blame it all on injuries, too many players are out of form and it looks like teams know how to play us.
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Couldn't get our game going last night due to Newcastles high press which resulted in Emi kicking long passes instead of our normal patient build up, a few players look off it at the moment and to be honest we haven't played well for a few weeks now. Hoping for a turnaround in form very soon.
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A defeat had been coming but you never know, it might do us some good in an odd kind of way. Hopefully Ramsey is not too far away and the new lad give us another option.
Saw a picture of the offside call. Another toenail effort.
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Couldn't get our game going last night due to Newcastles high press which resulted in Emi kicking long passes instead of our normal patient build up, a few players look off it at the moment and to be honest we haven't played well for a few weeks now. Hoping for a turnaround in form very soon.
They looked like a team who were going through the paces at the end of a season with nothing to play for. Hopefully just a blip and Emery get's the fire back.
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I know I hide it really well, but it might shock you all to learn that I actually intensely hate Poocastle's owners. So I hate losing anything to that scum regime.
But with how we have been since just before Christmas, this hasn't been unexpected and I'm not going to dwell on it. There's something not quite right with the team at the moment, beyond rest and injuries, and the sooner Unai and the coaching team figure it out the better.
We need to go smash the Blades now. And I'm treating myself to a takeaway afterwards, come hell or highwater.
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From a 'well oiled machine' to just 'well oiled'.
There is a spanner or two in the works at the moment but Unai will get us functioning again. Sooner rather than later, I hope.
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On reflection, though we were undoubtedly poor in the first half last night, it was kind of similar to the game up at their ground in that we had chances to score that on another night the score would've been different. Their goals were all soft.
At our worst, we play the high line without effectively pressing ourselves. That's happened at Newcastle, at Liverpool and again last night. I'm not clever enough to know who isn't doing what they should be doing - but at a guess Tielemans was probably the culprit on the press and Cash had a poor game with the result being diagonal balls for Gordon to chase.
At our best we are exciting and irresistible, pressing and creating. We didn't do any of that until Bailey came on. And we are missing Torres. Is there any notion as to when he is likely to return? Isn't there usually some kind of indiction on this kind of thing?!
All of the teams in the top 6 have ad poor runs of results and form and this is ours. I trust Emery to pull us out of it, starting with a win against Sheffield. Diaby needs resting though.
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Playing out from the back has become ineffective. The defenders get pushed back into the corners and the midfielders don't make themselves available.
This might be a result of Torres being missing. What happens now is we play around at the back like we used to, only for Martinez to then boot it and give it away 9 times out of 10. Defeats the entire object.
As an aside, once it was clear we were going to lose, and we were for some reason passing it around square trying to preserve Newcastle's lead, I'd have liked to have seen KKH given a go to see if he could offer something different from Cash.
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We were second best pretty much all over the pitch last night. Howe got his tactics spot on to nullify us and we had no answers. We’ve been nothing more than OK since the Man City home win and 2W 2D 2L is not a catastrophe or the wheels falling off but teams are definitely succeeding in altering their approach and nullifying us. We also seem to have lost the ability to play pinged or driven long passes, the number of times we played floated or lofted balls with no pace just meant we were always giving them a chance with headed interceptions and clearances. Scores on the doors from me.
Martinez - 7 - loses a mark for some poor distribution but 3 or 4 top quality saves, my MOTM
Cash - 5 - poor delivery, poor decision making both attacking and defending but he was our best outlet for most of the night.
Konsa - 6 - a bit in and out last night with moments of real quality and some indecision.
Lenglet - 5 - was ok but nothing more
Moreno - 2 - own goal, sore plums and probably his worst performance in a Villa shirt.
Kamara - 5 - he battled away but was nullified by their midfield.
Luiz - 2 - was he on the pitch? He floated around as if he was in a daze and Longstaff had him in his pocket all night. Dreadful.
McGinn - 6.5 - the only one seemingly trying last night, always bright and competitive but was doing it on his own
Tielemans - 4 - ineffective, really doesn’t seem to influence play in that role.
Diaby - 2 - ineffective, out of form, lightweight on the ball, not good at all
Watkins - 6 - I watched Ollie a lot last night and the runs he makes which aren’t spotted are ridiculous, found it tough against their centre halves but battled hard and got no service until Bailey arrived. Good goal.
Bailey - 6.5 - instant impact but they nullified it quickly with Livramento.
Zaniolo - 1 - appalling.
Ramsey - 5 - solid and unspectacular.
Emery - 5 - think he could have changed that much earlier and he needs to find some tweaks to get us playing with more tempo and purpose again.
Us - 2 - from kick off we were appalling, a few renditions of songs, got a bit lively around the goal and the disallowed effort but the team gave us nothing and we returned the compliment.
All in all a very bad night at the office and we need something a bit different.
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We could/should be 6 points further ahead of Yanited and Newcastle now, effectively too much for us to be caught. But we bottled both games. I knew last night at half time that there was no chance Newcastle would be naive enough to let us back in the way we did at Old Trafford.
Our unbeaten home record stat appeared on-screen in the second half. Erroneously citing 15 wins and 1 defeat in our last 16. Apparently our late equaliser against Sheff Utd didn't count. More worryingly, my reaction was less "Come on, this is a fortress. There's still half an hour left, get into these fuckers and give them a game" and more "Wow, how have we stayed unbeaten here for so long, we look awful".
There's now a big danger we undo all the great work in the first half of the season. Same as it ever was with the Villa.
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I love Emery hes the best thing that’s happened to us in donkeys years, but how are you can sit on your hands for an hour watching Diaby and co play like that and do nothing is beyond me
That’s what British managers do, that’s what they’ve always done make the changes on the hour it’s pathetic
I don’t buy this thing where if the second goal had been allowed we might have got something as if that was the difference.
It wasn’t the difference. We were 3 nil down already difference was our defence was shit and there’s was good
All is not lost, and its still a great season so far
But we’ve got to get back on track tactically we have to be more imposing on the oppositions goal
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Unai Emery has it in him to fix this rut we're in, but he has to battle against our innate Villaness, meaning once the Top 4 is but the slimmest of outside chances, we'll go on a barnstorming run, just miss out, and then look back on all these "if onlys".
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I have disagreed with Unai's lineups on quite a few occasions since he took over, but last night was the first time that I ended up being proved right. I'd have had Carlos and Bailey in from the start, and I think we really missed Carlos' physicality and Bailey's bravery on the ball. I will, however, concede that Emery is probably still better positioned than I to lead the team for the rest of the season...
We just never got into the game last night, and Newcastle were just better than us. If I was to design a team to beat Villa, they would all be over 6ft and be willing to run all day - and that's basically what they are. With us not playing as well as we can, and not moving the ball quickly enough, we just couldn't get a foothold into the match. They could smell blood and scored when they needed to.
We're definitely in a bit of a rut at the moment. Most teams will go through one at some point in the season, but what matters is how we wrestle ourselves out of it. I trust Unai to identify what is wrong, but I'd really like him to do it quickly! We are in such a good position right now, we can't let it just sip away. We just need a couple of decent wins to get us back on track. The next two weeks are huge.
As an extra point, and I hate it when other people go on about this, so I'm being a massive hypocrite here - I thought we, as a crowd, were really poor last night. I get that we respond to what's on the pitch, and the players didn't really give us much to get behind, but given the last 12 months we've had at home, I would have hoped that we might pick up the slack a bit. I get the nervousness about seeing it all slip away, but for the last few home games (Sheff U, Burnley and Newcastle) I think we, the crowd, have been poor when the team could have really done with a bit of a lift. Perhaps we're the Youri Tielemens of supporters, great when things are going well, but when things get tough, we may as well not be there... To be fair, I think the mess with the hospitality etc has made an impact on that - treat us like customers and we'll act like customers, so I'm not really blaming anyone, and I'm really not trying to tell people how to support their team, I'm just a bit surprised about how quickly the positivity can evaporate.
Anyway, when Newcastle battered us on the opening day, I think it did us good. It kept us humble, it highlighted some weaknesses and forced us to improve. We need the same response now, and I believe we'll see it. We don't have anyone that can do what Torres does, so getting him back is key to how we finish the season.
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Night's like that can happen when your struggling for form. We are missing three quality centre halves and it's starting to take it's toll. But we wasn't as bad as some are making out. Bailey looks class and but for a toecap being offside we would have pulled it back to 2-3 then who knows what might have happened. I'm confident Unai will sort it out and I'm confident we will go on another run of top form in the very near future.
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I love Emery hes the best thing that’s happened to us in donkeys years, but how are you can sit on your hands for an hour watching Diaby and co play like that and do nothing is beyond me
That’s what British managers do, that’s what they’ve always done make the changes on the hour it’s pathetic
I don’t buy this thing where if the second goal had been allowed we might have got something as if that was the difference.
It wasn’t the difference. We were 3 nil down already difference was our defence was shit and there’s was good
All is not lost, and its still a great season so far
But we’ve got to get back on track tactically we have to be more imposing on the oppositions goal
I agree with most of that but I do think that marginal offside "goal" may well have seen them crumble as they are low on confidence in the PL lately. We'll never know now and as the old saying goes "if my auntie had bollocks she would have been my uncle" Although these days that might not be true.
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I agree that the atmosphere was crap and its normally electric at night when we need a win. Don't know why, I'm guessing a lot if us feel that we are on the verge of chucking the great season away and the nerves take hold?
I know what doesn't help, the god awful racket pumping out of the speakers right up until they kick off. No time to build a ground wide atmosphere.
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I love Emery hes the best thing that’s happened to us in donkeys years, but how are you can sit on your hands for an hour watching Diaby and co play like that and do nothing is beyond me
That’s what British managers do, that’s what they’ve always done make the changes on the hour it’s pathetic
I don’t buy this thing where if the second goal had been allowed we might have got something as if that was the difference.
It wasn’t the difference. We were 3 nil down already difference was our defence was shit and there’s was good
All is not lost, and its still a great season so far
But we’ve got to get back on track tactically we have to be more imposing on the oppositions goal
I agree with most of that but I do think that marginal offside "goal" may well have seen them crumble as they are low on confidence in the PL lately. We'll never know now and as the old saying goes "if my auntie had bollocks she would have been my uncle" Although these days that might not be true.
No you’re right they might well have crumbled and we might well I’ve got something out the
But people are saying that’s the difference that that off side decision was the difference on night
I’m saying it wasn’t. We were already three nil down
We’d played an hour without mustering anything on their goal whatsoever, running around (not very fast) going nowhere with the ball
That Offside decision was big on that night, but no where near as big as the previous hour of doing absolutely bugger all and not having the wherewithal or inclination to do anything about it
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I agree that the atmosphere was crap and its normally electric at night when we need a win. Don't know why, I'm guessing a lot if us feel that we are on the verge of chucking the great season away and the nerves take hold?
I know what doesn't help, the god awful racket pumping out of the speakers right up until they kick off. No time to build a ground wide atmosphere.
i said exactly the same thing last night about the stadium noise taking over the crowd
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Playing out from the back has become ineffective. The defenders get pushed back into the corners and the midfielders don't make themselves available.
Midfielders like Luiz are being pressed hard, especially first 20 mins last night and again v Chelsea until they tired. Longstaff on his back basically. It's like what we did to Brighton earlier this season. But teams can't sustain it and I thought Luiz had a strong first half generally. Before they scored we had a very good spell in possession in midfield but got little or nothing from Tielemans, both full backs and both forwards, Diaby painfully passing up a couple of shots.
I think the tactical issue playing from back is cumulative too. Torres out is huge as Lenglet is nowhere near as comfortable stepping out. His first touch was very ropey from the off last night. Kamara also worries me with his back to the play. I think the near misses against Chelsea rocked confidence a bit. Cash getting caught for the third goal being another example, we had players making decisions on the ball last night the haven't done all season. Also if you are playing two up top and getting pressed, your front two have to a lot more to get us up the pitch. Our front two in the first half were simply awful. Every time we went long it was like kicking the ball off a wall. Simply put Emery had to move Diaby early on to the left wing and moved Tielemans inside and kept us a lot more solid against their counter attacks down the flanks. If even for 10-15 mins.
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This may have been mentioned, but last season's battering of Newcastle was built on NOT playing from the back and putting McGinn on Dan Burn, who he turned inside out, as the passes were on the floor (as Bailey did until they went 5 at the back). Firing high passes to Cash and Diaby last night just made it too easy for him to defend.
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I agree that the atmosphere was crap and its normally electric at night when we need a win. Don't know why, I'm guessing a lot if us feel that we are on the verge of chucking the great season away and the nerves take hold?
I know what doesn't help, the god awful racket pumping out of the speakers right up until they kick off. No time to build a ground wide atmosphere.
i said exactly the same thing last night about the stadium noise taking over the crowd
One of my pet hates, it really is so annoying.
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I said to my son before kick off, we needed to start fast, like Fulham, Luton and numerous other games, just felt we needed to.impose ourselves straight away given their physicality but also their relatively low confidence away from home. But McGinn aside we were passive from the off. As others have said, I couldnt fathom Diaby starting ahead of Bailey and that's not hindsight! And other than 10 mins after we scored Doug was anonymous.
And I agree with Boozey re the crowd and I'm not being the better fan, it was flat and smattering of boos at half time.
Need impose ourselves against Sheffield.
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I think Moreno was effective last season because he combined well with Ramsey.
Moreno has looked way off the pace since his return. More than that, his body language has been poor at times and it looks like he hasn't established any kind of rapport with Lenglet.
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I can take losing, but I thought the manner of the defeat was poor.
Tactics seemed wrong from the start as we surely needed Bailey on from the first minute so we could utilise the diagonal ball out wide like they did? Our play seemed ponderous at best as there were no runners from midfield and our high line looked vulnerable.
I don't understand the comments from some in the media that we were tired as we had one more days rest than Newcastle and didn't have to travel for the second time in three days.
A response in the next few games is needed.
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I said to my son before kick off, we needed to start fast, like Fulham, Luton and numerous other games, just felt we needed to.impose ourselves straight away given their physicality but also their relatively low confidence away from home. But McGinn aside we were passive from the off. As others have said, I couldnt fathom Diaby starting ahead of Bailey and that's not hindsight! And other than 10 mins after we scored Doug was anonymous.
And I agree with Boozey re the crowd and I'm not being the better fan, it was flat and smattering of boos at half time.
Need impose ourselves against Sheffield.
Bailey starting would have meant a different formation and is probably why Emery went with Diaby.
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There was nothing for the fans get behind though for the first hour
I mean I was saying to my son, just give us something anything I’m not talking about goals or big shots from range, I’m saying anything where you can start to get behind a team with
One of the big problems is if there is a 50-50 chance of a ball going forward or backwards. We always take the backwards option always,it’s ridiculous we just end up going back to square one all time
I know we’ve got this patient buildup and that’s fine , but you still Got to impose yourself on the opposition more than we do. We take the negative ball 90% of the time trying to thread the needle we just make it too easy for the opposition
We never had an attempt on goal for half an hour last night maybe longer
How are you supposed to start to get behind a team when they’re going round in circles doing nothing
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To be fair Emery has often tried to calm the crown down when we get a bit too excited early on in games.
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I think Moreno was effective last season because he combined well with Ramsey.
Moreno has looked way off the pace since his return. More than that, his body language has been poor at times and it looks like he hasn't established any kind of rapport with Lenglet.
Our players that rely on pace and getting in behind as there primary asset are struggling because teams have worked out to sit deep and stifle us. We need to adapt to this and find a way to move the ball much quicker, theres method in the slow build up at times but we need an alternative aswell.
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There was nothing for the fans get behind though for the first hour
I mean I was saying to my son, just give us something anything I’m not talking about goals or big shots from range, I’m saying anything where you can start to get behind a team with
One of the big problems is if there is a 50-50 chance of a ball going forward or backwards. We always take the backwards option always,it’s ridiculous we just end up going back to square one all time
I know we’ve got this patient buildup and that’s fine , but you still Got to impose yourself on the opposition more than we do. We take the negative ball 90% of the time trying to thread the needle we just make it too easy for the opposition
We never had an attempt on goal for half an hour last night maybe longer
How are you supposed to start to get behind a team when they’re going round in circles doing nothing
Because thats just what you have to try and do.
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Night's like that can happen when your struggling for form. We are missing three quality centre halves and it's starting to take it's toll. But we wasn't as bad as some are making out. Bailey looks class and but for a toecap being offside we would have pulled it back to 2-3 then who knows what might have happened. I'm confident Unai will sort it out and I'm confident we will go on another run of top form in the very near future.
Pau, Mings and ?
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I think Moreno was effective last season because he combined well with Ramsey.
Moreno has looked way off the pace since his return. More than that, his body language has been poor at times and it looks like he hasn't established any kind of rapport with Lenglet.
His change of pace seems to have disappeared since his injury. I always thought Digne was one paced and Moreno last season getting back and also breaking into the box seemed to have another gear in him. Jacob Murphy must be one of the most average forwards in the division but he had a field day last night on that side.
Our left flank Moreno/Lenglet/Tielemans was a disaster last night and first half v Chelsea too.
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I think Moreno was effective last season because he combined well with Ramsey.
Moreno has looked way off the pace since his return. More than that, his body language has been poor at times and it looks like he hasn't established any kind of rapport with Lenglet.
His change of pace seems to have disappeared since his injury. I always thought Digne was one paced and Moreno last season getting back and also breaking into the box seemed to have another gear in him. Jacob Murphy must be one of the most average forwards in the division but he had a field day last night on that side.
Our left flank Moreno/Lenglet/Tielemans was a disaster last night and first half v Chelsea too.
His pace doesn't look any different to before his injury to me. His final ball is just not great at the moment and he doesn't have marauding Ramsey playing alongside him.
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I can take losing, but I thought the manner of the defeat was poor.
Tactics seemed wrong from the start as we surely needed Bailey on from the first minute so we could utilise the diagonal ball out wide like they did? Our play seemed ponderous at best as there were no runners from midfield and our high line looked vulnerable.
I don't understand the comments from some in the media that we were tired as we had one more days rest than Newcastle and didn't have to travel for the second time in three days.
A response in the next few games is needed.
The tactics were indeed wrong from the off, and it was disappointing that there didn't seem to be much in game management to change things. Miley and Gordon were getting past Cash at will, and Murphy and Longstaff were doing the same to Moreno on the other side.
We just don't get Diaby into games at all. Last night he had 19 touches in just over an hour of football, only a couple more than Zaniolo and Ramsey who only played for half an nour.
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Moreno had a horrific game , we really miss Digne
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Aside from the goal, the Villa highlights were SJM's hip/arse check that sent the Newcastle player into orbit, Ezri's ridiculous spin move and Leon showing why he should have started by turning Burn inside out
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There was nothing for the fans get behind though for the first hour
I mean I was saying to my son, just give us something anything I’m not talking about goals or big shots from range, I’m saying anything where you can start to get behind a team with
One of the big problems is if there is a 50-50 chance of a ball going forward or backwards. We always take the backwards option always,it’s ridiculous we just end up going back to square one all time
I know we’ve got this patient buildup and that’s fine , but you still Got to impose yourself on the opposition more than we do. We take the negative ball 90% of the time trying to thread the needle we just make it too easy for the opposition
We never had an attempt on goal for half an hour last night maybe longer
How are you supposed to start to get behind a team when they’re going round in circles doing nothing
John, you have just awoken a long held fascination of mine. If I could go back to the days when I had more time and fewer responsibilities, I would devote myself to researching the psychology and importance of football fans. It would be fascinating*.
Do fans matter? I’m sure I’ve felt the fans lift the team at times, but maybe we put too much importance on it. That spontaneous roar against Liverpool in the FA Cup semi final; did it lift the players and help see them through, or would we have held on anyway? It felt good to be a part of it, certainly, and it felt like we made a difference, but maybe it’s just what we tell ourselves.
On the other hand, I have always felt like negativity from the fans is passed on to the players. As the players drop deeper, hanging on to a lead, we get nervous. They get nervous. We concede two in injury time and lose the game. But maybe that’s nonsense too - the fans didn’t fail to clear the corner. Kodjia did, and he would have fucked it up even if we were singing his name louder than ever before.
I don’t know how important fans are. My personal, unfounded, view is that we can make a small difference at some points. It’s probably more of a one-two relationship - they feed us, we feed them, they score. Can a fan base lift a team from nothing? If there is nothing to feed off, can the sheer noise from the crowd make a positive difference on the pitch? And, if there is even a tiny chance that it could, why would you not give it a go…? Stand up and shout until you're hoarse. The worst thing that will happen is that you lose a bit more respect from your Dad sitting next to you, but there wasn’t much left anyway. (Might be a bit of personal experience creeping in there).
My only gripe last night was that I thought the players, over the last 12 months, had earned a bit more from us. There were pockets of us in the Upper Holte trying to get something going, but there was just a sense that the overwhelming feeling was quite negative. Which I completely get, as you say, we just never got into the game, and there was nothing to latch on to. It’s hard to see the bigger picture when what is right in front of you is so shit.
Is it possible to properly change that mentality to generate a more positive atmosphere? Would it even matter if we did? I have no idea.
Everyone is different though, and everyone goes to a game for different reasons. I’m sure part of my thinking is linked to much deeper psychological issues! I cannot just sit there quietly when things are going wrong. I have to be doing something that makes me feel like I’m helping. It certainly doesn’t make me a ‘better fan’, and I hope that it doesn’t come across like I’m lecturing people (I’ll wait until the book tour for that).
*It might not be fascinating.
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Night's like that can happen when your struggling for form. We are missing three quality centre halves and it's starting to take it's toll. But we wasn't as bad as some are making out. Bailey looks class and but for a toecap being offside we would have pulled it back to 2-3 then who knows what might have happened. I'm confident Unai will sort it out and I'm confident we will go on another run of top form in the very near future.
Pau, Mings and ?
Carlos
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Fascinates me, Mr Boozey.
Using Liverpool as an example:
Liverpool's record at a packed Anfield since 2017 (Klopps first full season) up to August 2023 in the Premier League:
112 games
86 wins (77% win rate)
23 draws
3 losses (2 in 2016/17 and 1 in 2022/23)
80 consecutive games unbeaten (April 23, 2017 ㅡ October 29, 2022)
286 goals scored (2.6 goals scored per game)
77 goals conceded (0.7 goals conceded per game)
57 clean sheets (51%)
However, behind closed doors:
Played 23 at Anfield, Won 13, Drawn 4, Lost 6.
The crowd makes a massive difference. Unai knows it and is always trying to make that connection.
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Night's like that can happen when your struggling for form. We are missing three quality centre halves and it's starting to take it's toll. But we wasn't as bad as some are making out. Bailey looks class and but for a toecap being offside we would have pulled it back to 2-3 then who knows what might have happened. I'm confident Unai will sort it out and I'm confident we will go on another run of top form in the very near future.
Pau, Mings and ?
Carlos
He's not missing because of an injury or anything, Emery just prefers to play the left-footed Lenglet there.
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A mate of mine had a son who played in goal professionally.
He always said that he was concentrating so much on the game that crowd noise was at best background distraction and didn't effect him either way, no matter what he said to the club media, newspapers etc. Not sure I really believed him or whether he was a one off.
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Night's like that can happen when your struggling for form. We are missing three quality centre halves and it's starting to take it's toll. But we wasn't as bad as some are making out. Bailey looks class and but for a toecap being offside we would have pulled it back to 2-3 then who knows what might have happened. I'm confident Unai will sort it out and I'm confident we will go on another run of top form in the very near future.
Pau, Mings and ?
Carlos
He's not missing because of an injury or anything, Emery just prefers to play the left-footed Lenglet there.
Of course. I'd forgotten that. I prefer him to Lenglet but I don't pick the team.
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Last night was not a surprise to me. We haven’t played well for a number of weeks, since the Arsenal game. I don’t blame any 1 player, it’s just that we don’t have the depth of quality to give players a rest or replace them when they aren’t producing.
We look a tired team who are struggling to find a way past teams who now show us huge respect and sit back. It was always going to happen at some point and I think Emery knew it would as well. I’m not saying give up and accept things but let’s be honest the building job done by Emery and the improvement in almost every player has been superb. Getting Ramsey back up to speed and Torres back fit may just give us the boost we need to kick on again.
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The worrying thing is we've not played well now since the Man City match, but last night, along with the 2nd half at Man United, is probably the worst we've played in this present spell, only Martinez, McGinn and of course Bailey come out with anything credit. Nevertheless I still have every confidence in Unai, the next 3 games are huge Sheff United, Chelsea and Man United.
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We really miss Mings' defending at set pieces.
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Newcastle man-marked all over the pitch. Clearly learnt from last season and were much more aggressive on the longer pass as well. Botman was even stepping into midfield to mark McGinn for our goal kicks. They were just better on the night.
Emery won’t change. He will demand the players improve to overcome the way teams set up. Or he’ll replace them.
I would have Tielemans as a 10 behind Watkins. He is our best at opening sides up.
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Newcastle man-marked all over the pitch. Clearly learnt from last season and were much more aggressive on the longer pass as well. Botman was even stepping into midfield to mark McGinn for our goal kicks. They were just better on the night.
Emery won’t change. He will demand the players improve to overcome the way teams set up. Or he’ll replace them.
I would have Tielemans as a 10 behind Watkins. He is our best at opening sides up.
That's the annoying thing, Newcastle aren't a great team by any means. But they marked Luiz and Kamara out of the game completely, and hardly gave Watkins or Diaby a touch. The replacing players bit looks to have hit a bit of a brick wall as well. Emery is a great manager, but he needs a trick or two up his sleeve for when things aren't going well. And don't make stupid, avoidable mistakes like starting Diaby.
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Newcastle man-marked all over the pitch. Clearly learnt from last season and were much more aggressive on the longer pass as well. Botman was even stepping into midfield to mark McGinn for our goal kicks. They were just better on the night.
Emery won’t change. He will demand the players improve to overcome the way teams set up. Or he’ll replace them.
I would have Tielemans as a 10 behind Watkins. He is our best at opening sides up.
They set up well and played with good intensity, but even in the current system we should have been able to cope with the man marking - it just required us to show some intent, and precision, but we did neither. We were aimless, imprecise, and lethargic- except shortly after Bailey came on. Emery takes responsibility, but the players need to as well, they were meek and very passive.
Like I said post game I’m hoping that game is the nadir where we draw a line under the last month or so of performances.
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We really miss Mings' defending at set pieces.
To be fair we have been really strong defending them all season. Watkins just seemed to miss the ball to clear the first last night, Lenglet not great either. Fine finish, mind. It was a good shot for the second but Lenglet has to do better with the block. It's struck well but he's facing it and needs to sort his feet out quicker.
Newcastle had so many chances last night that required last ditch blocks and Martinez miracles...set piece defending is a long way down our list of problems I fear.
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Like I said post game I’m hoping that game is the nadir where we draw a line under the last month or so of performances.
I was hoping that the rest and the fact it was the first home game in a month might have had them champing at the bit to get at Newcastle, but no, unfortunately not.
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I'm trying to look on the positive side. If Mings and Buendia come back full strength next season then it will be like we just spent £100m on two top quality new players. We aren't far off being a really good team. And I think Diaby is way better than we are seeing right now. He could easily turn it around. Also, the talent coming through the academy is a bonus, even if it is just used for FFP solvency. Sadly, last night showed we have run out of steam.
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Well not really. Mings will be 31 coming off a very serious injury. He’ll be a squad player at best. Buendia has time on his side but much of his game is twists and turns so he’ll need to rebuild that confidence. It will be good to have them both around though.
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Ty, a squad player at best?! Noooo!
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I'm a bit concerned that opponents now seem to have worked out exactly how we play, and are clearly well prepared for it.
We've become a bit predictable, which is why sometimes you need a plan B that the whole team is well drilled in.
Currently, our approach is to keep plugging away with the same game-slowing tactic, and it's making us easier to play against.
If we're not going to change what we're doing, then at the very least we have to start doing it with a shitload more intensity, because we're struggling to compete physically too.
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They seemed to after we played Leicester and Arsenal last season and we ended the season brilliantly. Or after we got battered at Newcastle first game and we recovered. We are struggling a bit right now, but it’s always little things that need to be tightened up and reinforced. Emery isn’t going to change how we play. Just focus on doing it better. The tough part is missing certain key players and bringing back up the confidence of the existing ones quickly. Belief can be fragile.
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You only had to see that last night - Bailey comes on and sets up Oli, the crowd is up and if Oli's 2nd one is given then we'd have at least drawn. Despite being poor for 60 minutes.
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Playing out from the back has become ineffective. The defenders get pushed back into the corners and the midfielders don't make themselves available.
Yep. Need a plan B
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Ty, a squad player at best?! Noooo!
I wouldn't play him at LCB ahead of Pau and I wouldn't move Pau to LB. So yeah, squad player.
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Certainly a disappointing result but not something we can't recover from. Onwards and upwards.
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A stark contrast as to how we went about Newcastle last March. Not altogether a surprise given our downward trajectory over the last month or so. Time to regroup and get the Villa of 2023 back firing.
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I'm a bit concerned that opponents now seem to have worked out exactly how we play, and are clearly well prepared for it.
We've become a bit predictable, which is why sometimes you need a plan B that the whole team is well drilled in.
Currently, our approach is to keep plugging away with the same game-slowing tactic, and it's making us easier to play against.
If we're not going to change what we're doing, then at the very least we have to start doing it with a shitload more intensity, because we're struggling to compete physically too.
Except for plan B,Emery doesn't do them,totally agree.
Newcastle's midfield looked poor v Fulham,so I was very hopeful last night.However,it was our midfield that was outrun and overrun,not helped by missing Pau's passing ability.
Kamara was poor,ok a blip,but is Luiz the right player to partner him if teams pose us similar problems ?He's a major talent and a big reason for our league position.He can dominate a game but can be slow(ish) in possession and out of it.Would Tielemans be a better fit next season ? Not as subtle as Dougie,but still a skilful player who passes the ball quickly,is pacier and more attack minded.
If we could get an outstanding wide midfielder to replace him,I'd be tempted,though I love watching Dougie strut his stuff.
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I don't think the midfield is the problem, this is the same midfield that dominated Citeh.
Our Right Back position continues to be a weak link and Cash was crap last night.
Lengelet is OK but not Pau Torres.
Diaby is playing like he wishes he had gone to Saudi.
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We really miss Mings' defending at set pieces.
We just really miss him full stop. Best CB at the club still.
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I'm trying to look on the positive side. If Mings and Buendia come back full strength next season then it will be like we just spent £100m on two top quality new players. We aren't far off being a really good team. And I think Diaby is way better than we are seeing right now. He could easily turn it around. Also, the talent coming through the academy is a bonus, even if it is just used for FFP solvency. Sadly, last night showed we have run out of steam.
Much as I like Mings (and I really do) unless we go three at the back he's not getting in our first XI (when all are fit). So yes, it would be nice to have him over Lenglet and I think his distribution is better than he gets credit for, but I still think we would suffer if/when Torres is out.
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Loved the little shimmy from Bailey with his back to goal on the halfway line to send Burn on his arse. The touch my McGinn, again on the halfway line, whilst backing into the defender to kill the ball for Watkins to play it wide were highlights but there wasn’t much else, goal aside, to get excited about last night.
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We really miss Mings' defending at set pieces.
We just really miss him full stop. Best CB at the club still.
Injured players become legends in our imagination. It wasn't long ago that a lot on here described him as a "mistake or two per match Tyrone".
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We really miss Mings' defending at set pieces.
We just really miss him full stop. Best CB at the club still.
Injured players become legends in our imagination. It wasn't long ago that a lot on here described him as a "mistake or two per match Tyrone".
Not since UE arrived.
The best he has ever played for us and he seemed to have cut out the howlers.
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We really miss Mings' defending at set pieces.
We just really miss him full stop. Best CB at the club still.
Injured players become legends in our imagination. It wasn't long ago that a lot on here described him as a "mistake or two per match Tyrone".
Those mistakes pretty much vanished the moment Emery arrived. He was mostly rock solid after that.
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Playing out from the back has become ineffective. The defenders get pushed back into the corners and the midfielders don't make themselves available.
Yep. Need a plan B
Plan b is for EMI to hit it long to feet to the wide players or occasionally Watkins. Problem is they couldn’t get hold of it against very aggressive defenders and Emi’s passing wasn’t good enough. Consequently we kept turning over possession. Worked a treat against Newcastle last season.
In general, Emery is not going to change the way play. He will want players to improve and be brave.
The one area I do get frustrated is when we do win the ball back, we often turn back and slow the game. We should look to do the opposite more often before teams get back into shape.
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Playing out from the back has become ineffective. The defenders get pushed back into the corners and the midfielders don't make themselves available.
Yep. Need a plan B
Plan b is for EMI to hit it long to feet to the wide players or occasionally Watkins. Problem is they couldn’t get hold of it against very aggressive defenders and Emi’s passing wasn’t good enough. Consequently we kept turning over possession. Worked a treat against Newcastle last season.
Yep, as you say, the ball out to McGinn worked a treat against them last season. Emi's kicking was wayward last night though and he just seemed to find the heads of their defenders every time.
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Playing out from the back has become ineffective. The defenders get pushed back into the corners and the midfielders don't make themselves available.
Yep. Need a plan B
Plan b is for EMI to hit it long to feet to the wide players or occasionally Watkins. Problem is they couldn’t get hold of it against very aggressive defenders and Emi’s passing wasn’t good enough. Consequently we kept turning over possession. Worked a treat against Newcastle last season.
Yep, as you say, the ball out to McGinn worked a treat against them last season. Emi's kicking was wayward last night though and he just seemed to find the heads of their defenders every time.
However, these long balls were often aimed in Diaby's direction when he was up against Dan Burn which was mind-numbing.
Playing long balls in Burn"s direction is just Christmas coming early for him. He isn't quick though but we never tried Diaby in a foot race with him which seemed the most obvious tactic.
I was watching Diaby in the first half when our centre backs had possession and he just stood in front of Dan Burn, never offering any movement or that he was looking to get in behind. It looked to me like he was hiding but maybe that's unfair?
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Playing out from the back has become ineffective. The defenders get pushed back into the corners and the midfielders don't make themselves available.
Yep. Need a plan B
Plan b is for EMI to hit it long to feet to the wide players or occasionally Watkins. Problem is they couldn’t get hold of it against very aggressive defenders and Emi’s passing wasn’t good enough. Consequently we kept turning over possession. Worked a treat against Newcastle last season.
Yep, as you say, the ball out to McGinn worked a treat against them last season. Emi's kicking was wayward last night though and he just seemed to find the heads of their defenders every time.
However, these long balls were often aimed in Diaby's direction when he was up against Dan Burn which was mind-numbing.
Playing long balls in Burn"s direction is just Christmas coming early for him. He isn't quick though but we never tried Diaby in a foot race with him which seemed the most obvious tactic.
I was watching Diaby in the first half when our centre backs had possession and he just stood in front of Dan Burn, never offering any movement or that he was looking to get in behind. It looked to me like he was hiding but maybe that's unfair?
He got in behind at least three times that I counted but each time squandered the opportunity. Partly because of confidence and partly because Ollie kept going back post with 2 covering centre halves in his way.
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It’s close but order of best centre half’s is Pau, Ezri, Mings, DC, Lenglet for me.
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It’s close but order of best centre half’s is Pau, Ezri, Mings, DC, Lenglet for me.
Pau is the best all-round player out of that lot. But Mings is the more physical of the two and the best fit for us in this league.
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It’s close but order of best centre half’s is Pau, Ezri, Mings, DC, Lenglet for me.
Mings Konsa Torres DC Lenglet Hause Chanbers
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You only had to see that last night - Bailey comes on and sets up Oli, the crowd is up and if Oli's 2nd one is given then we'd have at least drawn. Despite being poor for 60 minutes.
This
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Torres is not only our best centre halF he is one of our best players.
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There were occasions when we won back the ball and Martinez had the opportunity to launch the ball forward immediately with the majority of Newcastle in our half but instead waited for Newcastle to regroup ,as I mentioned we had the opportunity to have a quick break in other games also,I think teams except us to play it out from defence, so why not try something different now and again
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At about the same time Moreno was bundling one into his own net, some toerags broke into the site I'm working on and robbed my tools. Shit evening all round.
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Sorry to hear that, Lastfootstamper. Scumbags!
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Emery actively stops the quick breaks. I think there are times when they are needed.
We also left two players up on corners too. Which ive never seen us do before.
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It’s close but order of best centre half’s is Pau, Ezri, Mings, DC, Lenglet for me.
Pau is the best all-round player out of that lot. But Mings is the more physical of the two and the best fit for us in this league.
All about opinions, but in mine Torres gets us into the Champions League places and Ty doesn’t. Ty is a good physical centre half, probably better physically than Pau, but Pau’s all round game makes him elite level.
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It’s close but order of best centre half’s is Pau, Ezri, Mings, DC, Lenglet for me.
Pau is the best all-round player out of that lot. But Mings is the more physical of the two and the best fit for us in this league.
All about opinions, but in mine Torres gets us into the Champions League places and Ty doesn’t. Ty is a good physical centre half, probably better physically than Pau, but Pau’s all round game makes him elite level.
I agree.
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Playing out from the back has become ineffective. The defenders get pushed back into the corners and the midfielders don't make themselves available.
Yep. Need a plan B
Plan b is for EMI to hit it long to feet to the wide players or occasionally Watkins.
A problem with this is that Watkins and Diaby are not good at playing back to goal and are generally outmuscled by opponents meaning quick loss of possession. Our best players at holding the ball up are probably Duran and Zaniolo.
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Playing out from the back has become ineffective. The defenders get pushed back into the corners and the midfielders don't make themselves available.
Yep. Need a plan B
Plan b is for EMI to hit it long to feet to the wide players or occasionally Watkins.
A problem with this is that Watkins and Diaby are not good at playing back to goal and are generally outmuscled by opponents meaning quick loss of possession. Our best players at holding the ball up are probably Duran and Zaniolo.
Not being funny mate but which Villa games you been watching this season
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We really miss Mings' defending at set pieces.
We just really miss him full stop. Best CB at the club still.
Injured players become legends in our imagination. It wasn't long ago that a lot on here described him as a "mistake or two per match Tyrone".
Very true as a general rule, but Mings is a legend. Period.
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He’s been a top player for us, and hopefully still has plenty to offer but Pau is the best centre back at the club.
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Playing out from the back has become ineffective. The defenders get pushed back into the corners and the midfielders don't make themselves available.
Yep. Need a plan B
Plan b is for EMI to hit it long to feet to the wide players or occasionally Watkins.
A problem with this is that Watkins and Diaby are not good at playing back to goal and are generally outmuscled by opponents meaning quick loss of possession. Our best players at holding the ball up are probably Duran and Zaniolo.
Not being funny mate but which Villa games you been watching this season
I didn’t say they were the reincarnation of Christian Benteke, simply that they are our best forwards at holding up the ball back to goal!
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He’s been a top player for us, and hopefully still has plenty to offer but Pau is the best centre back at the club.
He might be a better passer but Mings is a far superior defender and leader
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We don't know what effect playing next to Torres might have on Mings, it might bring his game on even more like it has Konsa's. Assuming Pau's injury isn't career ending, obviously.
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Mings is a natural leader, and I love the bloke, but he's going to have to get back into the team ahead of Torres - and the other CBs - on merit.
Torres, Mings, Carlos, Konsa - that must be close to the best group of CBs in the Premier League?
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Torres is by a mile our best centre half. That doesnt make Mings a bad player, just not as good as Torres, whose thumping header at Spurs shows he's just as bigger threat at set pieces as Ty is/was.
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Mings is a natural leader, and I love the bloke, but he's going to have to get back into the team ahead of Torres - and the other CBs - on merit.
Torres, Mings, Carlos, Konsa - that must be close to the best group of CBs in the Premier League?
Not sure I'd have Carlos in that list... but it would be hard to pick two starters from the other three when fit.
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Mings is a natural leader, and I love the bloke, but he's going to have to get back into the team ahead of Torres - and the other CBs - on merit.
Torres, Mings, Carlos, Konsa - that must be close to the best group of CBs in the Premier League?
Not sure I'd have Carlos in that list... but it would be hard to pick two starters from the other three when fit.
Was just about to say I'm not sure Carlos belongs in there. But I guess as 4th choice paulie's right, not many better than that.