Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Bad English on December 22, 2023, 09:54:15 PM
-
That was nuts. Happy Winterval!
-
(https://i.ibb.co/tpzMQJ7/aston-villa-emi-believer-HD.png) (https://ibb.co/LdrzYZL)
-
That was nuts. Happy Winterval!
😂
-
Fuck me!
-
A battling point.
-
In the end, a point gained.
-
I'll take the draw to be honest
-
Another early post match THREAD started by BE and we score.
-
Rubbish performance from both us and from the officials
-
If you don't win, don't lose
-
That doesn’t even feel like a point. It feels like...nothing.
-
Grim game. I wanted to see us play a bit quicker, but I guess it's not our style. I hate chucking away our home run but, that's football. Fair play Sheffield Utd.
-
Pretty piss poor - showed for me how vital Pau is to our game out of the back, but at least we grabbed a point. Great run and header by Zani.
-
Whilst I can see why the goal was chalked off, how is a little tug of the arm deemed a foul when a two handed push into an attacker's chest not?
Well done lads for fighting back.
-
If you don't win, don't lose
This
-
Almost Wimbledon 1990 revisited, but still really disappointing.
-
We’ve got to work out a way of breaking these teams down they’re starting to work us out now. Far too slow far too ponderous.
-
Chris Wilder, Anthony Taylor and VAR can fuck off I hope you all choke on your turkey.
-
Another early post match THREAD started by BE and we score.
We need him to start the next one now
-
I know the match thread is the match thread etec etc but jesus, some over the top stuff in there tonight!
-
Another early post match THREAD started by BE and we score.
No. I'm an hour ahead of VP; I took my time.
-
They was shit
We was a little better
Disappointed
Merry Christmas
-
As frustrating as that was, we kept going and got a point. That point could be vital and it's one we wouldn't have got the previous few seasons.
-
Heartbroken that I won't get to see us top of the league. Utterly heartbroken.
-
Not good enough. Should have been a routine win if we have expectations of a top four spot.
-
If that point somehow keeps Sheffield up, maybe they'll finally stop blarting about that other goal.
-
That was crap. No intensity until we went a goal behind. Nice goal from Zaniolo.
The officials will be happy now that they have well and truly avenged the hawkeye debacle.
-
Almost Wimbledon 1990 revisited, but still really disappointing.
Disagree - we could have won the league that season as we 'only' had to finish above Liverpool. It was late Feb with about 1/3rd season to go.
This season we have to overcome 3 teams and there is half season to go.
-
That was so predictable after beating Man City and Arsenal. So typically Aston Villa
-
Fuck shit anti football
Fuck VAR
Fuck Zaniolo (H&V last month)
-
If we're looking to point the finger of blame for the end of the home winning run, it's on Legion.
-
Another early post match THREAD started by BE and we score.
We need him to start the next one now
I just don't have the willpower, training and sheer motivation to do it week inw week out. I'm not PWS you know!
-
That was shit. Happy Christmas.
-
Heartbroken that I won't get to see us top of the league. Utterly heartbroken.
We may yet do! Just not this gameweek.
-
Whilst I can see why the goal was chalked off, how is a little tug of the arm deemed a foul when a two handed push into an attacker's chest not?
Well done lads for fighting back.
I have seen lots of two handed pushes into the backs of players, and if the ref doesn't give it, VAR never seem to over rule it. Watkins against wolves, the Newcastle attacker for their controversial goal, another striker but I can't remember when, and now again tonight.
-
A win for the Arse tomorrow and we’re 2nd at Xmas. That would have been dream land a year back.
-
A point on the back of a very rare home performance is a point gained in hindsight. But most certainly 2 blown points given the opportunity. We were way too slow at times. Too pedestrian and didn’t even test the keeper who we know is suspect. 4 shots on target isn’t good enough with all that possession against the bottom side in the league.
-
Gene Wilder does it again, the wanker.
If you were a martian sent down to watch a football match with no awareness of recent form, context or anything else (this also applies to Micah Richards) you'd say that's two evenly matched sides.
-
The shove on Watkins was a pen. The handball one, they didn't show enough to see if it was lower than his sleeve line. Ramsey fouled the keeper
Christmas just about salvaged, I'll go and get the turkey out of the bin.
-
Feels like a win. Happier than they will be.
We've lost 1 game in 14. The home win was always going to come to an end at some point. We haven't lost and still beaten City and Arsenal. I thought we'd lose to Brentford and beat these. Onwards and upwards.
-
Two blatant pens not given, perfectly good goal not given but we never gave up.
We look like we're running on empty to me which isn't surprising considering our league position and European fixtures. It's only going to get tougher.
I will take anything in January even two more decent loans.
-
We have to cut out the attitude where we think we will 'turn up and we'll batter them' malarky. Moved the ball way too slowly from the back. Bailey and Diaby got in each others way and tried to take the piss by walking it in. Three shots on goal all game isn't enough. We do not have that player to open up the opposition in parking the bus circumstances. Defo two penalties missed by VAR but what a surprise that Carragher talks all over the commentary about not allowing them instead of shutting up and letting them do their job like commetators do in cricket? Disallowed goal was so soft and the second phase rules out? Are they Arsenal fans on VAR tonight? Fucking frustrated but this is why we need to keep doing our own thing and stop listening to the crap around us. We need a replacement for Kamara and erm, a player like their goalscorer.
-
A win for the Arse tomorrow and we’re 2nd at Xmas. That would have been dream land a year back.
No, still an opportunity missed.
-
Wilder has done a number on us a few times and did again tonight. Horrible football and so many fouls
-
JJ needs to do a lot more for me. Too slow & ponderous on the ball.
Turns back too often when he used to drive on.
Mind you he wasn’t alone tonight, no snap for most of the game.
-
As frustrating as that was, we kept going and got a point. That point could be vital and it's one we wouldn't have got the previous few seasons.
Yep agreed - the bloody goal we conceded though was so sloppy, and we nearly did it again after we scored.
-
Watched in a pub.And I celebrated that equaliser like a fa cup winning goal.
The road ahead may be bumpy, but christ on a bike I'm loving it.
-
Would be nice to have someone like Buendia on the bench to bring on. I’ve never rated Ramsey - then again I didn’t really think much of Archer and shows what I know.
-
Not ideal but if you can't win it don't lose it applies here . The season has a long way to go. Onwards and upwards.
-
I still don't quite understand why it was a UTD freekick. Didn't he have massive handfuls of Duran's shirt? Isn't that why VAR said it wasn't a red card, because he was trying to get free of another player? WTLF? Villa freekick all day long,no?
-
Would be nice to have someone like Buendia on the bench to bring on. I’ve never rated Ramsey - then again I didn’t really think much of Archer and shows what I know.
Ramsey is a good player coming back from a couple of back to back injuries. Hopefully the minutes get him back up to speed.
-
You can see when we miss our regular midfielders how disjointed we can look. Without Doug and Youri at Brentford. Without Bobby today. It will be good to have them all back, hopefully against Man U.
Edit: fuck forgot Kamara might be out for 3 games
-
I knew it would be tougher than many thought. However, Watkins in the first half won a penalty - not awarded. VAR always looking for a reason to disallow a goal: in the second half, the defender was as much a part of the goalkeeper's inability to make the save as was Ramsey.
-
For me, the biggest tactical error today was playing McGinn too deep. He is so much more effective further forward.
-
Would be nice to have someone like Buendia on the bench to bring on. I’ve never rated Ramsey - then again I didn’t really think much of Archer and shows what I know.
Haha! What if Ramsay was out for months and Buendia was playing regularly. I bet we'd be saying he's shit and we need Ramsay. ;-)
-
Reinforcements certainly needed in Jan, if just to give us some other dimension. I'd love a niggly little striker, a Diego Costa type, someone who's an expert in roughing up defenders.
-
For me, the biggest tactical error today was playing McGinn too deep. He is so much more effective further forward.
That was forced upon us I imagine. I suppose he could have played the Donck there.
-
Too many players well below par. Ramsey and Diaby the worst culprits. Our final ball was abysmal all game.
-
Worst case scenario we're 3rd on Christmas Day. We're unbeaten for 16 home games, unbeaten in the last 7, lost 1 of the last 14. Tonight was frustrating, but we're doing something right.
-
I knew it would be tougher than many thought.
I'm off to the pre-match discussion THREAD in the archives to verify this.
-
For me, the biggest tactical error today was playing McGinn too deep. He is so much more effective further forward.
With Kamara out who would you have selected there? Donk? We also are without Torres so we would have been lacking real quality in that area with Donk and Lenglet in there together.
-
Anybody quoted Fred MacAuley yet?
-
Too many players well below par. Ramsey and Diaby the worst culprits. Our final ball was abysmal all game.
Diaby needs a goal, urgently.
-
For me, the biggest tactical error today was playing McGinn too deep. He is so much more effective further forward.
That was forced upon us I imagine. I suppose he could have played the Donck there.
To a degree yes, but I'd have been tempted to start Timmy I in there or the Donck as you suggest.
-
Too many players well below par. Ramsey and Diaby the worst culprits. Our final ball was abysmal all game.
Harsh. 10 men behind the ball and one, if not two stonewall pens not given.
-
Ok, who changed their routine?
-
Ramsey is coming back from injury. That was his first 90 minutes since July. Easy on him, he's brilliant.
-
Not good enough really. We are accustomed to better. Sort it out Emery!
-
I can't say I'm ever really impressed when Duran gets chucked on. Apart from always being a bit rash, I don't recall really seeing him create too much.
-
Disappointing, kind of flopped on our big night really. Losing to a team as poor as Sheff United would have been sickening so great we got the equaliser late on. Zaniolo was appalling up to the header in his cameo, brave header really and a moment of quality from Luiz to create it. Duran was a joke and should have been sent off. We were far too slow tonight, credit to Sheff United who were really well organised defensively and were a threat late on. Of course it had to be Archer with their goal.
Positives, I thought Lenglet did well on his first start until he tired a bit late on. Not much else really apart from that, Konsa was solid again. Dont think Emery got the selection right really, despite being former teammates Diaby and Bailey tend to get in each other's way. I think the Donk sitting next to Luiz with McGinn on right would have given us better balance in midfield.
Martinez 6 - no chance with goal and could have brought a deckchair that aside
Cash 5 - poor really, so slow on the ball. He misses when McGinn isnt out there with him
Konsa 7 - good performance again
Lenglet 7 - first league start and I thought he did well, tidy on the ball
Digne 6 - hardly attacked first half, better after the break but I thought Moreno could have come on a lot earlier
McGinn 5 - Poor, sat on his ass for their goal and really dont like him left of Luiz in that two. Should have moved him
Luiz 6 - Struggled to break free of Norwood's shadow until he made the goal. Needed to put more tempo into our midfield play
Bailey 6 - lovely finish for the disallowed goal but that aside was quiet tonight
Ramsey 6 - improved second half but nowhere near his best at the moment
Diaby 6 - good first half I thought but went very quiet in the second half, struggling of late
Watkins 6 - great pass for the disallowed goal but that aside he hardly got a kick
Moreno missed a good chance to score, Duran was a clown when he came in, Zaniolo was terrible but then he scored
-
After the goal was disallowed it felt like the air was knocked out of our lungs for a bit and they got a second wind. The way we now play, with recycled possession after recycled possession, and with teams sitting to defend against us, we simply HAVE to find a way to break teams down around the box. I don't know what the answer is, but too often now teams are making us look a bit toothless by packing a well-organised defence and saying "come on then". Another reminder that dominating possession doesn't guarantee you anything.
This feels like 2 points lost right now, but come the end of the season, that point might look very good indeed.
-
How can VAR be looking at Duran for foul play when the guy had most of his shirt and that Vini Souza had spent all game trying to wind up Villa players? - there is something deeply wrong about VAR when it seems always to be looking for a reason to disallow a goal. The defender was as much a part of the goalkeeper's inability to make the save as Ramsey before Bailey scored.
-
Cash awful and Ramsey not much better. Surely he knows fouling the keeper is going to get VAR’d. Pissed off but I’d have taken a point going into added time
-
Can't play well every game and they made it very hard. It doesn't matter who you play, you'll always take a point when you one down with three mins left.
-
The last few corners from Luiz, deary me. MacPhee needs a few words tomorrow.
-
And Carragher can fcuk off, n'all. Obvious foul? Bollocks.
The sort of grappling you see all the time before the ball comes in. The goal came about 15 minutes after that anyway.
When they call the prats over to the screen is it to ask them to reconsider the decision? Or merely to confirm what has already been agreed at Stockley Park? Tonight was one of a number of occasions when the ref could have viewed it and said "I am actually OK with my original call".
But they never do.
-
The last few corners from Luiz, deary me. MacPhee needs a few words tomorrow.
Lovely cross for the goal. But yes, very off his usual high standard. Practice more. Twitch less Doug.
-
Would be nice to have someone like Buendia on the bench to bring on. I’ve never rated Ramsey - then again I didn’t really think much of Archer and shows what I know.
Haha! What if Ramsay was out for months and Buendia was playing regularly. I bet we'd be saying he's shit and we need Ramsay. ;-)
Perhaps - although I did say “never” rated Ramsey. I found all the talk about “JJ” coming back and sorting things out baffling.
-
Would have been great to go top. But what really counts is where we are after 38 games.
-
Worst case scenario we're 3rd on Christmas Day. We're unbeaten for 16 home games, unbeaten in the last 7, lost 1 of the last 14. Tonight was frustrating, but we're doing something right.
This
-
JJ needs to do a lot more for me. Too slow & ponderous on the ball.
Turns back too often when he used to drive on.
Mind you he wasn’t alone tonight, no snap for most of the game.
It’s because he’s not match sharp.
-
And Carragher can fcuk off, n'all. Obvious foul? Bollocks.
The sort of grappling you see all the time before the ball comes in. The goal came about 15 minutes after that anyway.
When they call the prats over to the screen is it to ask them to reconsider the decision? Or merely to confirm what has already been agreed at Stockley Park? Tonight was one of a number of occasions when the ref could have viewed it and said "I am actually OK with my original call".
But they never do.
Totally - VAR is killing the game and seeking reasons to disallow goals.
-
It's great slowing down the play against sides who want to attack, as it lets you draw their sting and control the play.
It's less effective against sides that are perfectly happy for you to control the play. That's when you need to speed things up. Bit surprised we were so slow, even after half time when I expected Emery to get them to move their arses.
And we didn't look balanced. The ball spent too much time with Bailey and Diaby both trying to cut back inside where there was no space, and until Moreno came on there was no width to stretch them on the left. He really should have started tonight.
-
Obvious penalty in the first half on Watkins. Clear and compelling. That aside, great we didn’t lose the game.
-
Disappointing given what could have been, but we're level on points with the team in top spot. Worst case scenario tomorrow is that we're in 3rd, level with the team in 2nd. It's still a remarkable place to be.
It really goes to show we need some sort of alternative in terms if creativity to break down these teams that don't want to play. I know we were missing Torres and Kamara but it's not the first game we've struggled to break a team down.
-
And Carragher can fcuk off, n'all. Obvious foul? Bollocks.
The sort of grappling you see all the time before the ball comes in. The goal came about 15 minutes after that anyway.
When they call the prats over to the screen is it to ask them to reconsider the decision? Or merely to confirm what has already been agreed at Stockley Park? Tonight was one of a number of occasions when the ref could have viewed it and said "I am actually OK with my original call".
But they never do.
Unless the laws of the game have changed recently, I don't believe there is any law which protects goalkeepers from fouls any more than they protect ALL players from fouls. So if JJ was fouling the keeper, then the defender was fouling JJ and it's a pen.
The rule is a clear and obvious error, and it took SO long to look at and review I don't see how it's an obvious error on the ref's part?
-
I knew it would be tougher than many thought.
I'm off to the pre-match discussion THREAD in the archives to verify this.
Lolz. Tonight was awfully predictable to be fair.
They'll play exactly like Brentford and use Archer on the counter. It's going to be a very tough match but as I've been doing my rounds apparently we've already won it.
-
Would have been great to go top. But what really counts is where we are after 38 games.
Exactly! We had to drop home points sometime, and being Aston Villa, it was against the bottom team in the league! ;)
Least we didn't lose though: that would have been a total bummer over Christmas! Cheers Niccolo!
-
Would have been great to go top. But what really counts is where we are after 38 games.
Well said. We are not the finished article and clearly missed Torres and Kamara today.
People know We Are Here. For the first time in 25 years. We are here after half a season. Let's make sure we get 75+ points.
-
Cant believe how many villa players were in the box and non of them were anywhere near archer for that goal
-
It does seem the ghost goal came back to haunt us tonight. For two VAR decisions it seems a little shove and pull does not warrant an infringement so no penalty but then this little pull warrants a goal being chalked off.
Oh well, that’s football for you.
-
Obvious penalty in the first half on Watkins. Clear and compelling. That aside, great we didn’t lose the game.
Great comment
-
Disappointing, kind of flopped on our big night really. Losing to a team as poor as Sheff United would have been sickening so great we got the equaliser late on.
Well, no. Wilder set up to defend deep and has history for being very good at it. It was always going to be a tough game, and anyone thinking otherwise is kidding themselves.
Zaniolo was appalling up to the header in his cameo, brave header really and a moment of quality from Luiz to create it. Duran was a joke and should have been sent off.
- err, no. Duran was freeing himself from the original foul on him and from the intervention of wind-up merchant Vini Sousaz.
We were far too slow tonight, credit to Sheff United who were really well organised defensively and were a threat late on. Of course it had to be Archer with their goal.
Slow is frustrating but it's pretty much how we've played all season.
Positives, I thought Lenglet did well on his first start until he tired a bit late on. Not much else really apart from that, Konsa was solid again. Dont think Emery got the selection right really, despite being former teammates Diaby and Bailey tend to get in each other's way. I think the Donk sitting next to Luiz with McGinn on right would have given us better balance in midfield.
Emery's selection was somewhat limited by who was available to play. Of all the players on the pitch, I'd say the only chnge I'd have made was not playing Cash who was poor for a large part of the game.
-
Well at least that should shut up Sheffield United morning about VAR.
Can see why Bailey's goal was disallowed, but we should have had 2 penalties.
Even Carragher thought we should have had one of them.
-
As soon as Zaniolo came on I stuck 10 quid on him to get booked. Nothing was more certain ;)
-
Not good enough really. We are accustomed to better. Sort it out Emery!
Thanks for that
-
Would have been great to go top. But what really counts is where we are after 38 games.
Well said. We are not the finished article and clearly missed Torres and Kamara today.
People know We Are Here. For the first time in 25 years. We are here after half a season. Let's make sure we get 75+ points.
I thought it was Tielemans who'd have made the biggest difference. He's probably the best passer we've got. He'd have combined more effectively with either Bailey or Diaby, I reckon.
-
Obvious penalty in the first half on Watkins. Clear and compelling. That aside, great we didn’t lose the game.
Agreed, thought it was a blatant handball near end too from Baldock. They were fortunate to get away with those two decisions.
Ramsey did foul their keeper so dont think we should be whinging about that one. Thought Duran should have been sent off too, if their defender had jumped to the ground he would have been.
-
I will just throw in that 31st Dec 2022, Citeh drew at home against Everton. Whilst they weren't bottom, they were down there with the result taking them a whole two points outside of the zone. Citeh had DeBruyne and Ludo playing and only managed 3 shots on target all match. They had even taken the lead in the match. So whilst it would have been nice to be top of the league, the result is not the end of the world.
I just wish we had played them before Wilder came back though.
-
Yeah, Unai's homework is now to come up with a different approach against teams that put 10 behind the ball just come for a point or smash and grab. Maybe go all out to blitz them early on.
-
Positives:
- the quality of McGinn
- Liuz s cross for the goal
- Bailey still looks in good shape
Martinez being Martinez and Konsa being Konsa
Negatives
- Cash being Cash, looked slightly better 2. half though but sometimes I cant stop myself thinking it must be a joke that he is in the team (sorry)
- Zaniolo and Duran still appear to be too selfish - yes Zaniolo got the goal but it was much about Luiz s pass
As we Emery has said we are not title contenders - we are still building a team, our style (slightly counterattacking IMO) suits better when we are not favourites, we struggle when the other team set out just to defend. Given our table standing now I -even after todays poor showing, still have hope for fourth. Might be better for us going to OT without being top as I dont think the team have the mentality to be top by now - I had us too loose there so now might get something and Cash suspended so all in all I look more forward to that game now than I did before this game.
Sheff U was as expected, disappointing that Emery coudnt figure out how to break them down.
-
If we can get a Moreno for the right side ... those passes Konsa played to set Cash roaming down the wing were fantastic
-
Ramsey is fouling the keeper, but by that token we should have two penalties.
-
Too many players well below par. Ramsey and Diaby the worst culprits. Our final ball was abysmal all game.
Diaby needs a goal, urgently.
Villa needed a goal urgently!
-
As expected.. we f... fail at easiest chance
-
'Zaniolo's late header rescues point for Villa'
http://www.skysports.com/share/13036623
-
Ramsey did foul their keeper so dont think we should be whinging about that one. Thought Duran should have been sent off too, if their defender had jumped to the ground he would have been.
Sorry, I just think you're plain wrong on those two issues.
We all see it differently.
-
JJ needs to do a lot more for me. Too slow & ponderous on the ball.
Turns back too often when he used to drive on.
Mind you he wasn’t alone tonight, no snap for most of the game.
It’s because he’s not match sharp.
Erm right oh. I wonder what the best way to get match fit is?
Well one position, Ramsey got a full 90 minutes tonight.
-
Cash was awful tonight, and in his preferred position at right back too. So many attacks broke down because he can only pass backwards.
-
I knew it would be tougher than many thought.
I'm off to the pre-match discussion THREAD in the archives to verify this.
Feel free :D
I rarely post on pre-match threads - think I did today but about the 1970 LC semi ...
-
Cash was awful tonight, and in his preferred position at right back too. So many attacks broke down because he can only pass backwards.
It was like watching Cucurella.
-
Ramsey did foul their keeper so dont think we should be whinging about that one. Thought Duran should have been sent off too, if their defender had jumped to the ground he would have been.
Sorry, I just think you're plain wrong on those two issues.
We all see it differently.
Which is exactly why VAR will never work for so many decisions. It needs a complete rethink.
-
Well, if you'd offered me 8 wins and a draw at the start of the season, I'd have taken it. If you'd offered me a draw against City and to beat Sheff Utd, I'd have taken it.
We should've had a penalty and sure, that'd change the game. But after the opening burst in each half we got slow, ponderous, predictable, and they started to press us at the back. Cash was better second half but I thought he and Ramsey were particularly sloppy, Bailey gradually receded to his old self, McGinn was overhitting things for some reason and Diaby looks like he wouldn't back himself in a five-a-side in the garden. Watkins had his moments but his touch deserted him at times.
Subs, obviously great for Zani to score, thought he was alright otherwise, put himself about, ran into a couple of brick walls (once fouled), but certainly no worse than anyone else really. Maybe he should play up front. Moreno, did what he did. Duran, fuck me today was above his current temperamental level, both mood and technique looked shoddy.
Unai was wrong to bring him on when he did in hindsight, but isn't that easy. Hopefully Man Utd won't sit everyone back like that, Torres will be back (nothing against Lenglet today, just Torres has that extra class), and hopefully Tielemans back soon too. If Arsenal win tomorrow, we're second at Christmas. I think we'd all take that.
-
Cash was awful tonight, and in his preferred position at right back too. So many attacks broke down because he can only pass backwards.
It was like watching Cucurella.
And the they both have their thing with their hair.
-
For me, the biggest tactical error today was playing McGinn too deep. He is so much more effective further forward.
That's why I wanted the Donk in there. Why disrupt the team, especially players on top of their game.
-
Not good enough really. We are accustomed to better. Sort it out Emery!
Thanks for that
Sorry! What I meant to say was the high-line and possession-based game needs tweaking in the transition phase with faster second balls required while connecting with our fans.
-
Thought we needed to put more crosses in when it was attack v defence. Or is that too old fashioned? If we had Tielemans or Buendia we may have done better. Keep going Villa
-
I’d rather not be top at Christmas.
All the headlines when you don’t maintain the lead are embarrassing.
It’s only halfway through the season.
-
Fair play to Sheffield Utd, they came with a plan and a system and stuck to it rigidly.
We’re going to have to learn how to deal with teams coming to VP and setting up like that, there’s a time when we need to mix up the admirably patient build up play and move it much quicker.
Thought the talk of going top weighed on us, but in the end a point gained.
-
Couple of thoughts on watching the highlights -
- Ramsey definitely fouls the keeper, but how far back do you drag it. They were trying to set up a counter and it was a couple of phases later.
- our defending was dreadful for the Archer goal - 3 players were completely ball watching.
-
Absolutely should have won that but credit to Sheffield United for digging trenches into Villa Park. In a strange way, it’s almost a compliment.
I don’t think Diaby can be expected to be in behind the striker and have a wider player out to his right. He’s not one to play the quick pass to send someone in behind and doesn’t combine particularly well. His pace is nullified in Emery’s system. We need a true #10, which I think right now should be Tielemans when healthy.
For all the flak they catch, I think Leon, Cash and Zaniolo were fine. All worked their socks off and Zaniolo’s header was a cracker.
All in all, the result was a bit of a let down but our points total at Christmas is what matters. We’ve had some great results thus far (along with some stinkers) and need to continue to improve. This match will keep them motivated.
Had to be freakin’ Cam!
-
As I did say in the match thread, I do wish Diaby would take a shot a bit earlier. Last few games he tries to go one move too far
-
Appalling decisions tonight from VAR, though I do think they got the goal right. It would be lovely if there was some repercussions from the Premier League for such abysmal refereeing both on and off the pitch.
-
Obvious penalty in the first half on Watkins. Clear and compelling. That aside, great we didn’t lose the game.
Agreed, thought it was a blatant handball near end too from Baldock. They were fortunate to get away with those two decisions.
Ramsey did foul their keeper so dont think we should be whinging about that one. Thought Duran should have been sent off too, if their defender had jumped to the ground he would have been.
I think the contention for some was Sheffield had the ball and could have cleared it anyway for a couple of plays and 15 seconds after the foul. So how far back does VAR check for a goal and how many "phases". There has been fouls in previous goal buildups which VAR haven't checked because it was a different phase or it was too far back.
-
For me, the biggest tactical error today was playing McGinn too deep. He is so much more effective further forward.
That's why I wanted the Donk in there. Why disrupt the team, especially players on top of their game.
Totally agree with this. To make a goal against a defence like Sheff s today there need to be moments of quality, of our players today Mc Ginn has it in him as do Luiz (and Bailey to a lesser degree)
-
We are just a couple of players short:
a right sided Moreno to replace Cash
An upgrade on Duran (Archer?)
-
There was one tactical cock up tonight, Diaby and Bailey just ended up in the same place all the time.
-
Would be nice to have someone like Buendia on the bench to bring on. I’ve never rated Ramsey - then again I didn’t really think much of Archer and shows what I know.
Ramsey is a good player coming back from a couple of back to back injuries. Hopefully the minutes get him back up to speed.
If you’ve never rated Ramsey, then with respect, are you knowledgeable about football?
-
I could not put anyone above a 5 or 6 today
In that rating you are going to struggle to win.
Goal should have stood
should have been a penalty
But we were lacking creativity and our main players were all well below their best
Hope that is a wake up call for boxing day. Need a bit more aggression and tempo
But not the aggression from Durhan , who was actually crap and could have been sent off
-
Troy Deeney has cheered my night up.
-
I’d rather not be top at Christmas.
All the headlines when you don’t maintain the lead are embarrassing.
It’s only halfway through the season.
Exactly what I was thinking. The league is a marathon, not a sprint.
A tactical draw to position ourselves on the leaders shoulder ready for a sprint in the last two games.
Just trying to be positive.
-
We are just a couple of players short:
a right sided Moreno to replace Cash
An upgrade on Duran (Archer?)
There was one tactical cock up tonight, Diaby and Bailey just ended up in the same place all the time.
I thought that. I’d rather start with just the one of them and as form goes it’s Bailey all day long.
-
JJ needs to do a lot more for me. Too slow & ponderous on the ball.
Turns back too often when he used to drive on.
Mind you he wasn’t alone tonight, no snap for most of the game.
Jj isn't fit yet, chill out
-
Fuck knows how I quoted Villa for life. Didn’t mean too.
-
There were a couple of decisions that went against us, but don't think we did enough to win the game. The quality was lacking tonight
-
Duran was utter wank tbh
-
When teams park the bus I don’t think Bailey and Diaby works. I’d rather see Zaniolo playing off Watkins or maybe McGinn. Get the first goal then when the game opens up you can bring on Diaby.
Duran needs to go out on loan, these cameos are getting more and more erratic. Hopefully the plan is to bring in another forward in January.
-
Would be nice to have someone like Buendia on the bench to bring on. I’ve never rated Ramsey - then again I didn’t really think much of Archer and shows what I know.
Ramsey is a good player coming back from a couple of back to back injuries. Hopefully the minutes get him back up to speed.
If you’ve never rated Ramsey, then with respect, are you knowledgeable about football?
In your eyes, evidently not. I’m more than happy to be proved wrong but I don’t see it.
-
Slow, & uninspiring without Torres & Kamara.
We still battered the shit out of them for the most part, without ever looking like trying to get out of second gear.
Frustrating as fuck, but, as we become more respected, poorer teams managed by unimaginative people like Wilder will park the bus, & clamp it in setting cement. Thats their absolute right, because if they go toe to toe, they will get battered.
So respect to Sheff U for having a plan & using a predatory striker who did fuck all else all game but put the ball in the net. Not his fault of course, as he had zero service, but having a striker who can score at the drop of a hat can be invaluable.
Not overly impressed by the officials though. Had to have been either Liverpool or Arsenal fans.
The Konsa pen check looked the most like a foul for the 357 VAR checks in the first half (why only 2 mins added time?), especially if Ramseys was a foul for pulling their keeper. (it wasn't, of course).
The handball VAR in the second half where he tried to punch the ball didn't look like a handball to me as it looked like it hit his shoulder. Very few replays of it mind, unlike the Ramsey one. The Sheff U player was lucky as fuck mind, as a fraction lower & he is punching the ball away. Not very bright & he was lucky to get sway with it.
The Duran red car VAR check was a joke. Anybody with eyes could see that he was pushing one player away while trying to get himself released from another. The cut from the clip in the face of the little shit who fouled him in the first place was just desserts for the little shit who fouled him in the first place. And Im not quite sure why the free kick was given to Sheff U. Unless it was a drop ball because it went to VAR. Not sure why it went to Sheff U though...
All of the others looked fine to me. I think... There were quite a few, so may have missed one.
The disallowed goal made me angry as fuck. Ramsey barely touched their keeper. Their keeper touched Ramsey barely just as much. Their defender was pulling & pushing Ramsey at the same time. Now if thats a foul from Ramsey on their keeper, then their keeper & defender fouled Ramsey. Im not bothered about the phases of play argument, because it was all in a pretty quick sequence. We have had goals given against for contacts that were so far back in time that they were made by a T-Rex, so not concerned about that. But apart from the fact that it wasn't even contact worthy taking to VAR, I thought VAR decisions were to only be changed by VAR if they were "clear & obvious". There was fuck all clear & obvious about 15 frames of two arms in the vicinity of each other with a defender half in the way.
There was absolutely fuck all clear & obvious about that goal being disallowed.
Hopefully now though, it will make all of the Sheff Utd fans shut the fuck up about the "phantom goal". We are even in the high stakes officials cock up battle now, so less of the whining in the future about that one poor official decision. We all get them & here is a perfect example where they get one that costs us a big step in the table.
But overall, despite not being great, but weirdly dominating, its great to see that we keep battling until the end & no matter how I feel that we aren't ever going to score even if we play until next Thursday, we have frequently pulled something out of the bag, despite not being amazing.
That is what very good teams do...
And sat in 2nd again, even if it might only be for a day or two, shows how far we have come in such a short space of time.
-
Get a grip, people. We're currently second.
-
Fair play to Sherwood in the studio
Full on Vila support, totally disagreed with disallowing the goal as the blades had gone through a movement in control of the ball and then lost it.
Showed many shots of the defender positively moving his arm and playing the ball with his bicep
Pep and Artwata would have been going on ballistic about the injustice of it all
However we should have done better
-
We missed Kamara massively tonight. He’s so vital for us and with Tielemans not available as well we lacked that bit of creativity in the middle. The ref allowed multiple fouls from them and booked us for our first one. The VAR fiasco is just a comedy now. As Dean Smith once said “juggling balls for Christmas” and there’s never been a truer statement.
The lads don’t give in though and we sit second and I couldn’t be prouder of them and Emery.
-
Duran was utter wank tbh
His first touch goes further than I kick it. He doesn’t look anywhere near as good as the likes of Philogene who we let go.
-
Duran was utter wank tbh
His first touch goes further than I kick it. He doesn’t look anywhere near as good as the likes of Philogene who we let go.
Or Archer.
-
1.00 here
too much wine
Time for bed
Roll on boxing day
-
The handball rule is pretty clear (I think) if it was above his sleeve line, which it looked like it was from the limited replays, then it's not a pen.
And Ramsey definitely fouled the keeper by holding his arm. As soon as you do that and the keeper flaps, it's a foul all day long. I don't know enough about the phase of play bollocks, I'm sure there'll be something in the rules about times, or the fact Ramsey was involved again so quickly.
-
We are 2nd.
In the best league.
We ain't perfect
But people know we are here.
We need to make sure they continue to know we are here. It's been a long time
Bad decision was Watkins pen - defo a pen.
By the way I like Wilder - after play off final in 2019 he was very complimentary on Villa and Deano.
-
Duran was utter wank tbh
His first touch goes further than I kick it. He doesn’t look anywhere near as good as the likes of Philogene who we let go.
Or Archer.
He played a nice little lay off for Watkins who then rolled it to their keeper. Other than that, he's like a bull in a china shop.
-
Just back and crestfallen.
I bemoaned our lack of pace and movement at half time and it was no better second half.
The only time we moved the ball quickly and delivered some quality with runners, zaniolo nicks one
The rest of the game was turgid, slow and predictable.
I’m not sure how much may have been down to arrogance or over confidence, because until the 94th minute, we didn’t show any desire to get into them.
I really don’t know how you can go from an all action, swashbuckling, powerful performance like the Man City game, to that shower.
To lose our incredible home run to Sheffield fucking united is utterly dismal.
-
They parked the bus and it nearly worked.
-
Whilst I can see why the goal was chalked off, how is a little tug of the arm deemed a foul when a two handed push into an attacker's chest not?
Well done lads for fighting back.
1000%.
-
I’d rather not be top at Christmas.
All the headlines when you don’t maintain the lead are embarrassing.
It’s only halfway through the season.
Exactly what I was thinking. The league is a marathon, not a sprint.
A tactical draw to position ourselves on the leaders shoulder ready for a sprint in the last two games.
Just trying to be positive.
Absolutely spot on!
-
Compare and contrast our players responses compared to Arse or Plop. (although he forgot we played them here again and won the following season).
On Villa's disallowed goal: "I think it's a wee bit harsh. Goalkeepers are protected and I'm not sure what the rules are on phases of play. That's one for the referees.
"Things go for you and against you. The last time we played Sheffield United here the goalie carried the ball over the line."
-
Not good enough really. We are accustomed to better. Sort it out Emery!
Thanks for that
Do you sit in your basement only ever posting snyde comments ?
-
Just back and crestfallen.
I bemoaned our lack of pace and movement at half time and it was no better second half.
The only time we moved the ball quickly and delivered some quality with runners, zaniolo nicks one
The rest of the game was turgid, slow and predictable.
I’m not sure how much may have been down to arrogance or over confidence, because until the 94th minute, we didn’t show any desire to get into them.
I really don’t know how you can go from an all action, swashbuckling, powerful performance like the Man City game, to that shower.
To lose our incredible home run to Sheffield fucking united is utterly dismal.
Well look on the bright side we’ve lost our home winning run, but not our unbeaten at home run!
-
That doesn’t even feel like a point. It feels like...nothing.
Solid point against a rejuvenated team. Fair play to them.
What’s really important for us is that our team never, ever, give up. Point earned and we carry on.
-
Get a grip, people. We're currently second.
Yup! I’m loving it.
-
Cash suspended for Boxing Day I think so Carlos in and Konsa at right back. Hopefully Pau is fit or we’ll look a bit weak at the back.
-
We need to improve against low block teams. I said in the summer that we needed a target man precisely for games like this. As good as Watkins is he’s not a Carew and sometimes we need that option. This is just part of the evolution we need to go on and we’ll get there. It was disappointing that we didn’t make their keeper work more but we didn’t lose. Take the point, learn and move on.
-
Well, guess we can go back to being plucky title challengers.
A couple of take-aways:
1. Tomorrow's headlines were written before kick-off:
What next for world conquering Man City?
The outcome of Pool v Arse WILL decide the future of the Planet.
And
2. Put yourself in the shoes of Toon, Spuds and Scum fans. One minute we've dropped 3 points, then like proper contenders we score a last minute equaliser to really piss them off.
-
We need better than Cash and Duran.
Duran or Archer? Not even close.
-
Compare and contrast our players responses compared to Arse or Plop. (although he forgot we played them here again and won the following season).
On Villa's disallowed goal: "I think it's a wee bit harsh. Goalkeepers are protected and I'm not sure what the rules are on phases of play. That's one for the referees.
"Things go for you and against you. The last time we played Sheffield United here the goalie carried the ball over the line."
Good stuff, this! We move forward.
-
Good point in the end. We'll beat Yanited and Burnley and all will be well heading into 2024. Away to Everton and home to the Jaudis will tell us where we're at.
-
Was there any point Anthony Taylor being on the pitch seeing as he relied on VAR to make every decision?
-
It felt like one of our home performances in the europa this season. Too slow and circumspect.
-
It felt like one of our home performances in the europa this season. Too slow and circumspect.
Yep agreed - I think Torres and Tielemans would have made a big difference.
-
It felt like one of our home performances in the europa this season. Too slow and circumspect.
Yep agreed - I think Torres and Tielemans would have made a big difference.
Kamara, Pau and Tielemans needed back asap.
Genuinely pissed off at Kamara tonight for his stupidity in getting that red at Brentford
-
We need better than Cash and Duran.
Duran or Archer? Not even close.
Although Archer when he was coming on for 10 minutes here or there. Or Archer starting instead of Watkins is probably the comparison really. Because if he was still here it would have been the latter, and when he was doing the 10 minute cameos, most people were stating he wasn't going to make it.
-
Disappointed, yes, surprised no. This is what i grew up with Villa, and expected a bad result.
-
We need better than Cash and Duran.
Duran or Archer? Not even close.
Although Archer when he was coming on for 10 minutes here or there. Or Archer starting instead of Watkins is probably the comparison really. Because if he was still here it would have been the latter, and when he was doing the 10 minute cameos, most people were stating he wasn't going to make it.
he barely was given a chance though
-
Seen the Duran incident a few times now, I think it was a red.
Disappointing evening. The referee is a crook.
-
Seen the Duran incident a few times now, I think it was a red.
Disappointing evening. The referee is a crook.
If he was then he would have sent him off. He’s just incompetent.
-
It wasn’t a red.
-
It wasn’t a red.
I think it’s orange, if the Sheffield United player hits the deck in a Bruno Fernandes fashion I think it’s nailed on.
-
It wasn’t a red.
seen them given. Silly boy
-
Seen the Duran incident a few times now, I think it was a red.
Disappointing evening. The referee is a crook.
Any link to it? Not shown on the Sky highlights.
-
He’s trying to get free from the midfielder and happens to catch Robinson.
-
What’s the rule on phases of play? If Ramsey impeded the goalkeeper, it was very soft, but Sheff U had won the ball back and were trying to counter attack. They just lost the ball again. I don’t understand how far VAR goes back when it looks at goals.
-
Was there any point Anthony Taylor being on the pitch seeing as he relied on VAR to make every decision?
I’ve been wondering this - with every decision of importance seemingly going to VAR, what’s the point? Clear and obvious error etc but when they just use it for anything, it negates the need for an on-field ref at key moments beyond the odd yellow or free kick here and there. Could the referee give a pen and say they don’t want it to go to VAR? Is it automatic? Are they referring it every time out of caution? All a mess.
Anyway, as annoying as it all is at 90 I’d have taken a point so onward and upwards.
-
What’s the rule on phases of play? If Ramsey impeded the goalkeeper, it was very soft, but Sheff U had won the ball back and were trying to counter attack. They just lost the ball again. I don’t understand how far VAR goes back when it looks at goals.
Yeah that’s the bit that confused me a bit, seemed like play had gone on a bit. But that’s probably just my lack of understanding, and it was ultimately a foul.
-
In the highlights he seems to tell McGinn he saw the push, then states no. So if he told VAR the same thing I can see why they couldn't find anything to over rule him. It would just be nice to know why he thinks a two handed push in the back is not a foul.
-
I noticed the goal we scored, and the the one that was disallowed were similar balls into the box that allowed Chelsea to score their two against them. Crosses in low and hard to the penalty spot (Although the Dougie one was higher). I don't know if we tried that in the match and just couldn't get the ball in but surely Emery noticed that it was the play needed.
-
Ok, who changed their routine?
I was out for drinks and missed the first 30 minutes. I do feel guilty
-
Ok, who changed their routine?
I was out for drinks and missed the first 30 minutes. I do feel guilty
i walked my dog in a different route and he did a shit on a garden he doesn't usually shit on
-
We struggle against bus-parking teams, and do better against more expansive ones.
If we dip into the market in January, I hope it is for someone who gives us something else in unlocking teams.
-
Was there any point Anthony Taylor being on the pitch seeing as he relied on VAR to make every decision?
He's got history with us. He's a shocking referee.
-
Same here, as Diaby certainly isn’t doing it nearly enough. To get taken off when he did is very telling.
-
We needed Buendia tonight.
-
i walked my dog in a different route and he did a shit on a garden he doesn't usually shit on
Surprised you took a night off Villa Park?
-
We needed Buendia tonight.
Or Tielemans.
-
Ok, who changed their routine?
I was out for drinks and missed the first 30 minutes. I do feel guilty
i walked my dog in a different route and he did a shit on a garden he doesn't usually shit on
It's clearly Risso's fault for staying in Brum rather than driving home.
-
i walked my dog in a different route and he did a shit on a garden he doesn't usually shit on
Surprised you took a night off Villa Park?
unfortunately work got in the way
-
Seen the Duran incident a few times now, I think it was a red.
Disappointing evening. The referee is a crook.
You do contradict yourself.
-
We just didn't play well enough tonight.
Hugely disappointing not to win and go top but at the same time not a bad reality check as we still remain unbeaten at home.
2023 has simply been a fantastic year and even better will come in 2024 if we understand they'll be a few more results like this before the season is out.
Hopefully we won't get another game where we get so many VAR travesties as tonight but then I see who we have next....
-
Glad we got a point because they most definitely didn't deserve to win. We're going to get games like that unfortunately, it's just that the way it is. Had that been against a Newcastle or a Brighton, we'd have won that. Shame Sir Cam scored but he was always going to wasnt he?
-
Better to be second or third going into the New Year and then come off the pace late on in the season.
-
Oh and VAR really needs to fuck off.
-
Glad we got a point because they most definitely didn't deserve to win. We're going to get games like that unfortunately, it's just that the way it is. Had that been against a Newcastle or a Brighton, we'd have won that. Shame Sir Cam scored but he was always going to wasnt he?
The teams around us also have games like that.
Liverpool in particular have put in the odd absolute stinker.
We struggled to break down a determined defence today, and it could have been much worse than it actually was.
No need for us to panic, we move on.
-
Badly missed Tielemans speed and line of pass tonight. We have an issue with bus parkers and they were embarrassingly devoid of any ambition. Needs to be quick around the box, as they're never going to press, just congest space.
Great header and character to get a point. Not sure why McGinn went diving in for their goal, just stay on your feet
Moreno ought to have scored.
I cannot fathom why our goal was disallowed, yet we didn't get a penalty for more substantial contact. Bizarre but hey ho.
What a year. Undefeated at home still, but we do need some help to unlock these genital wart style teams.
-
If its a foul on the keeper it's a pen on watkins
-
Not long back.Just watched the highlights, thought it was a soft VAR at the time for Bailey's goal chalked off. Watching it now , I would be screaming for a free kick if Martinez had been in a similar situation. The Witton Arms queue gets longer every game , the're obviously not checking people for drugs as it seems like Coke central in the beer garden.
One more moan (this isn't a better fan than you gripe) , but every season without fail around Christmas we seem to attract fans that only go to one game a season and proceed to moan their bollocks off. Granted , it wasn't great tonight, but cries of shambles and sort it out Emery piss me off. Well I won't miss their footballing insight for another year, although there will probably be another new batch of them for the Burnley game.
-
Just back and we'll it was a point saved...much better to break the run in this game rather than last 2. A win on boxing day and it will still be a fantastic december. Konsa at.right back will be a blessing and I would be tempted to put donk in...and shift Mcginn to the right...he is much more effective running and turning onto his left.
-
Not seen the disallowed goal back yet
.
-
Not long back.Just watched the highlights, thought it was a soft VAR at the time for Bailey's goal chalked off. Watching it now , I would be screaming for a free kick if Martinez had been in a similar situation. The Witton Arms queue gets longer every game , the're obviously not checking people for drugs as it seems like Coke central in the beer garden.
One more moan (this isn't a better fan than you gripe) , but every season without fail around Christmas we seem to attract fans that only go to one game a season and proceed to moan their bollocks off. Granted , it wasn't great tonight, but cries of shambles and sort it out Emery piss me off. Well I won't miss their footballing insight for another year, although there will probably be another new batch of them for the Burnley game.
Similar on here tonight
-
Not seen the disallowed goal back yet
.
Just seen it, it’s soft at best and nowhere near clear and obvious. Plus they had at least 2 chances to clear the ball, what happened to phases of play?
-
I think it was right to disallow it. Ramsey was holding the keeper back by one of his arms, which meant he couldn't catch/clear the ball properly, so the ball ended up back with one of our players. I'd have been pissed off it that had been allowed to stand against us. The penalty for the shove seemed far more clear and obvious.
-
Not seen the disallowed goal back yet
.
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/13036623/aston-villa-1-1-sheffield-united-premier-league-highlights
-
I think it was right to disallow it. Ramsey was holding the keeper back by one of his arms, which meant he couldn't catch/clear the ball properly, so the ball ended up back with one of our players. I'd have been pissed off it that had been allowed to stand against us. The penalty for the shove seemed far more clear and obvious.
Agree , it's a foul, though Ramsey is also being fouled too. Move on , take the point , let's not lose at Mould Trafford
-
We struggle against bus-parking teams, and do better against more expansive ones.
If we dip into the market in January, I hope it is for someone who gives us something else in unlocking teams.
I think Tielemans or Kamara would have helped tonight
-
Thought we huffed and puffed our way to a point. Scores on the doors
Martinez -7 had little to do
Cash - 4 he was the man with all the space and ňtime tonight and wasted it either being too slow with his passing or a dreadful final ball.
Konsa - 6 a few loose balls but overall ok
Lenglet - 6 covered for Paus absence well.
Digne - 5 just didn’t go enough for me going forwards
Luiz - 6 ok, good cross for the goal but needed him to take more responsibility for upping the tempo.
McGinn - 6 ok but did his job diligently until he sold himself for their goal.
Ramsey - 4 poor tonight in thought and deed.
Bailey - 6 again ok but still not enough end product.
Diaby - 5 there were some green shoots of recovery tonight esp in 1st half but seems loathe to shoot.
Watkins - 5 kept trying but a dismal lack of service.
Dhuran 2 - abysmal, headless chicken.
Moreno 5 - didn’t really get that involved other than his headed chance.
Zaniolo 7 - good goal seemed energised and despite a few poor touches did alright.
Emery - 6 don’t think he got this set up right tonight with either the starting 11 or his subs.
Overall, we looked jaded and leggy and our squad depth looked a bit thin tonight. We were sloppy and slow in our play and just didn’t use our width to get behind a stubborn Sheff U defence. Fair play to Sheff U yes its eye bleedingly bad to watch but they were organised and disciplined and stick well to their plan. I’m happy with a point. Onwards…..
-
With the Bailey goal, yes it was a foul on the keeper and the ref should have blown for a free kick but he allowed play to continue, the ball bobbled around until the defender took control and passed the ball, at that time a new phase of play had begun. They had clear control of the play, the goal should have stood. With the handball, the still shot shows that it was his upper arm had made contact with the ball not the shoulder and it was a clear penalty. All the technowledgy available and they still get it wrong.
-
What’s the rule on phases of play? If Ramsey impeded the goalkeeper, it was very soft, but Sheff U had won the ball back and were trying to counter attack. They just lost the ball again. I don’t understand how far VAR goes back when it looks at goals.
Well this is my take on it. Ramsey does impede the keeper but it's very soft. Probably just about a foul which wasn't given.
The ball bounces around a bit then a couple of short United passes and a then a terrible clearance.
Clearly reading the rules it was the 2nd phase.
I don't think Ollie's was a penalty. The hand ball was a clear penalty.
Duran was trying to free himself from having his shirt pulled, which should have been a freekick instead wierdly given to them which they scored from.
Duran could have gone although it was accidental that his elbow hit the United player.
-
I think it was right to disallow it. Ramsey was holding the keeper back by one of his arms, which meant he couldn't catch/clear the ball properly, so the ball ended up back with one of our players. I'd have been pissed off it that had been allowed to stand against us. The penalty for the shove seemed far more clear and obvious.
As others have mentioned, they need to be clear on when they will go back to a foul after potentially a phase or two of play and when they will not. It is not a penalty decision so wouldn't have been looked at like say the one against Liverpool the other week which is why that was called back after so long. If Digne had scored, I would have been more for the decision to disallow, however they then had the break and it was their players poor pass which to me was another phase of play. I also didn't like the look at the pull, without showing the ref what the defender was doing to Ramsey to "force" him out of the goal keepers way. He had almost swapped shirts with him.
-
Thought we huffed and puffed our way to a point. Scores on the doors
Martinez -7 had little to do
Cash - 4 he was the man with all the space and ňtime tonight and wasted it either being too slow with his passing or a dreadful final ball.
Konsa - 6 a few loose balls but overall ok
Lenglet - 6 covered for Paus absence well.
Digne - 5 just didn’t go enough for me going forwards
Luiz - 6 ok, good cross for the goal but needed him to take more responsibility for upping the tempo.
McGinn - 6 ok but did his job diligently until he sold himself for their goal.
Ramsey - 4 poor tonight in thought and deed.
Bailey - 6 again ok but still not enough end product.
Diaby - 5 there were some green shoots of recovery tonight esp in 1st half but seems loathe to shoot.
Watkins - 5 kept trying but a dismal lack of service.
Dhuran 2 - abysmal, headless chicken.
Moreno 5 - didn’t really get that involved other than his headed chance.
Zaniolo 7 - good goal seemed energised and despite a few poor touches did alright.
Emery - 6 don’t think he got this set up right tonight with either the starting 11 or his subs.
Overall, we looked jaded and leggy and our squad depth looked a bit thin tonight. We were sloppy and slow in our play and just didn’t use our width to get behind a stubborn Sheff U defence. Fair play to Sheff U yes its eye bleedingly bad to watch but they were organised and disciplined and stick well to their plan. I’m happy with a point. Onwards…..
Agree with most of those scores. I'd probably give all of the defence apart from Cash a 7, because they kept Sheffield completely quiet for most of the evening, and it was only McGinn making an uncharacteristic slip up that led to the goal. Cash I agree with a 4, he was poor. I think Diaby would get a 4 too, he was very crap all match, and agree with Ramsey's 4 too. When your two players who can run with the ball and beat people don't do it, then it's always going to be difficult against a team with two banks of 5 behind the ball.
-
As soon as you see most posts pre match predicting a comfortable win I tend to feel the worst. Coupled with a light show of some sort and a flat atmosphere a point wasn’t too bad. Onwards and upwards.
-
We’re not familiar with what was in front of us tonight and while we persevered with our style to break it down it was unlikely to work. Man City have this issue and have had for years but then they have the likes of Silva, Foden and even Grealish dare I say, to get around it.
We need something similar.
-
Slow, & uninspiring without Torres & Kamara.
We still battered the shit out of them for the most part, without ever looking like trying to get out of second gear.
Frustrating as fuck, but, as we become more respected, poorer teams managed by unimaginative people like Wilder will park the bus, & clamp it in setting cement. Thats their absolute right, because if they go toe to toe, they will get battered.
So respect to Sheff U for having a plan & using a predatory striker who did fuck all else all game but put the ball in the net. Not his fault of course, as he had zero service, but having a striker who can score at the drop of a hat can be invaluable.
Not overly impressed by the officials though. Had to have been either Liverpool or Arsenal fans.
The Konsa pen check looked the most like a foul for the 357 VAR checks in the first half (why only 2 mins added time?), especially if Ramseys was a foul for pulling their keeper. (it wasn't, of course).
The handball VAR in the second half where he tried to punch the ball didn't look like a handball to me as it looked like it hit his shoulder. Very few replays of it mind, unlike the Ramsey one. The Sheff U player was lucky as fuck mind, as a fraction lower & he is punching the ball away. Not very bright & he was lucky to get sway with it.
The Duran red car VAR check was a joke. Anybody with eyes could see that he was pushing one player away while trying to get himself released from another. The cut from the clip in the face of the little shit who fouled him in the first place was just desserts for the little shit who fouled him in the first place. And Im not quite sure why the free kick was given to Sheff U. Unless it was a drop ball because it went to VAR. Not sure why it went to Sheff U though...
All of the others looked fine to me. I think... There were quite a few, so may have missed one.
The disallowed goal made me angry as fuck. Ramsey barely touched their keeper. Their keeper touched Ramsey barely just as much. Their defender was pulling & pushing Ramsey at the same time. Now if thats a foul from Ramsey on their keeper, then their keeper & defender fouled Ramsey. Im not bothered about the phases of play argument, because it was all in a pretty quick sequence. We have had goals given against for contacts that were so far back in time that they were made by a T-Rex, so not concerned about that. But apart from the fact that it wasn't even contact worthy taking to VAR, I thought VAR decisions were to only be changed by VAR if they were "clear & obvious". There was fuck all clear & obvious about 15 frames of two arms in the vicinity of each other with a defender half in the way.
There was absolutely fuck all clear & obvious about that goal being disallowed.
Hopefully now though, it will make all of the Sheff Utd fans shut the fuck up about the "phantom goal". We are even in the high stakes officials cock up battle now, so less of the whining in the future about that one poor official decision. We all get them & here is a perfect example where they get one that costs us a big step in the table.
But overall, despite not being great, but weirdly dominating, its great to see that we keep battling until the end & no matter how I feel that we aren't ever going to score even if we play until next Thursday, we have frequently pulled something out of the bag, despite not being amazing.
That is what very good teams do...
And sat in 2nd again, even if it might only be for a day or two, shows how far we have come in such a short space of time.
I think you need to expand.
-
It's the sort of game that we would have won by three or four if we scored in the first half an hour. But the longer they frustrated us and kept the scores level, the more they would chance their arm on a couple of forays forward. We switched off for the goal and we're 1-0 down.
I don't blame Wilder for playing those tactics, it's up to us to find a way to beat teams that play like that now we have a target on our back. As it was, We kept attacking through the congested central areas when all the space was out wide and didn't really mix it up. I expected some tactical tweaks from Unai at half time but we got worse. Usually reliable players were sloppy with loads of underhit and misdirected passing and some shocking set piece deliveries.
It did surprise me that we looked the tired team late on not them given we'd enjoyed 80% possession but we didn't exactly have them chasing around at pace. For the most part, they were happy to just watch us stroke the ball around our defence and midfield.
Fair fucks to Zaniolo and the team in general for sneaking a draw, we've got a nice knack of scoring meaningful late goals and for winning points from losing positions. It felt really deflating to miss the chance to go top and lose the run to such a functional, limited team but I suppose that in itself shows how far we've come.
It's not the end of the world and I still think we can win at Old Trafford. Play Dendoncker though and let McGinn move forward where he is far more effective.
-
Back from the pub(s)
Went with a few people and a couple of Sheff fans.
Been a long time since watching us in the pub.
We just couldn’t break them down.
Wilder set them up well. So fair play to them.
Bloody lucky with 9 mins added time.
Anyhow.
It ain’t all bad is it. 2nd !!
Merry Christmas to you all!
-
Find it bizarre that some are in panic/meltdown/mild what happened there. To me, what happened there is we played exactly as we do in home game against bottom half sides. And tonight, because football is football and stuff happens, we didnt win when 99 times out of 100 that exact game plays out and we do. We just drew when we were losing in the 96th minute. To say thats anything other than a great result is bizarre (sorry second use of bizarre). 100% before the game thats a bad result. But how it panned out, thats a great result for us. How people can analyse this and say we were this and that and the other is weird. Weve played that exact game at least 4 or 5 times in our 15 game home winning run. Football is a low scoring, tight game at this level. U play how we played tonight u win a lot lot more than u lose.
-
What’s the rule on phases of play? If Ramsey impeded the goalkeeper, it was very soft, but Sheff U had won the ball back and were trying to counter attack. They just lost the ball again. I don’t understand how far VAR goes back when it looks at goals.
This.
-
Was at the game earlier in the North Stand and there was confusion as to why Bailey's goal was ruled out. Only just watched the highlights and find the decision to rule it out baffling really.
Sheff Utd had the ball under control and were breaking before they gave the ball away, so I don't know why it was pulled back. They need to clarify exactly how far they can go back to disallow goals.
Shame, as I think we would have gone on to win that if that goal would have stood. Just thought we looked a bit lethargic and seemed to tire towards the end. I would have personally switched things at half-time and brought either Dendoncker or young Tim on and pushed McGinn further up as he isn't as effective in that deeper role.
-
Was there any point Anthony Taylor being on the pitch seeing as he relied on VAR to make every decision?
Another useless ref off the production line.
-
I thought we played pretty well up until the disallowed goal but seemed to lose our way after the disruption and the annoyance that delay and decision caused.
-
Exactly what Emery said.
-
On the plus side, Man Utd won’t set up as negatively so we should be able to work our magic. On the other hand, Fernandes is still a dirty, cheating, snide, whiny wee tunc.
-
For me that was the first opponent who truly set up to stop us, others have a little bit they basically had the 541 as a back 9, thought they did it excellently too so credit to Wilder.
Thought we fell into the trap of trying to be too intricate at times and not prepared to get a shot away from outside the box which let them continue with that set up.
We will see a lot more of this now, we have a target on our backs and no longer seen as a soft touch and have to find ways to play round it.
Ref was appalling, failed to clamp down on the niggly fouls first half but wasn’t going to make any decisions, he reffed to allow VAR to re-ref everything.
-
We’ve all watched football long enough to expect games like last night. And it would be the most Emery thing ever to be to only hit first place on the last game of the season.
We are second going into Christmas, no one could’ve dreamt this this time last season.
-
Heartbroken that I won't get to see us top of the league. Utterly heartbroken.
Yet.
-
Disappointing but I guess that's partly down to the raised expectations from the run we've been on.
Sheffield were always going to put everyone behind the ball so I was taken aback that we played so slowly, that our passing was so safe and conservative.
In particular I was really frustrated with the full backs (Cash especially) getting the ball out wide but refusing to take on the opposing full backs instead constantly coming inside into traffic.
Thought we played exactly how Sheffield would have wanted.
Still, it's been an incredible run and hopefully a blip of a performance.
-
Morning after night before... 11 points out of the last 15 is an excellent return so can't complain. A new challenge is to adapt to teams who come to do nothing but frustrate. Bailey's goal decision was dreadful but if you get up close and personal with keepers, you invite that. Cash is a good lad but he is the weakest link now and an upgrade is required. I'll be pleased when Torres back and Man Utd will give us far more room than that so not as pissed off this morning as I was at 10pm yesterday 😁
-
He’s trying to get free from the midfielder and happens to catch Robinson.
That’s my take on it as well, but I don’t know if that is how the rules of the game would interpret it. Presumably shirt pulling is a yellow card offence, but elbowing someone would be a red card offence as it’s violent conduct. So the issue would be whether or not he intended to elbow him. What are you supposed to do if someone is pulling your shirt though?
-
We have to get used to teams setting up like this.
Zrinjski (both games) and Brentford showed how to frustrate us, 9-10 players goal side of ball when we’re in possession. Sheffield followed suit, and it almost paid full dividends.
Against teams like this we need an early goal to open things up.
That said, had we been awarded the penalty (what were var looking at!!) the scenario changes.
-
We’re still progressing. We’re nowhere near the point where we can expect perfection. We need to keep that in mind.
-
On the matter of the disallowed goal, although we were not crowding the goalkeeper in the way that we were against Arsenal, I really do not like this tactic of getting so closely engaged with the keeper, as we know they are a protected species and will inevitably get the benefit of any doubt, as he did in this instance, even though Ramsey himself was being fouled. If a corner is put in with the appropriate pace, direction and projectory it shouldn't be necessary to have the keeper being man marked in that way.
On the second phase of play point, I can see why the decision again went against us, given the ball had barely left the penalty area and that Sheffield really had only the one way to go with the ball, and quickly, other than simply hoofing the ball, which I guess they should not have felt under constraint to do. So as it transpired, rather like how the advantage rule would have been applied, I guess, if the referee had known the goalie had been fouled.
-
It seems to slip under the radar are a bit, but in the last two games we’ve had the following key absences:
Brentford - Doug, Digne, Tielemans
Sheff Utd - Kamara, Tielemans, Pau
That’s not counting Mings and Buendia, but that’s properly influential first teamers. It’s something all teams need to cope with, but doesn’t change the fact it’s tough.
In particular in those type of games Tielemans would be a real difference maker, as he’s exactly the player who can pick a pass through a packed defence.
-
It's the other penalties we ought to have had. Contact with the keeper is an issue when two hands are on the ball, so if we're disallowing a goal, we ought to be giving us a couple of penalties first half. I felt VAR interfered far too much.
They had a plan, it was ugly and horrible to watch a televised game we all used to play in training or the playground of 89 minutes of attack and defence but that's their prerogative.
If we'd kept our composure, then we'd have eventually found a way, as we did to equalise. No Torres and no Yuri made the lock picking harder.
But its 46 from 48 at home, its 2nd in the league. We'll just go top another day.
Up the fucking Villa.
-
Aston Villa 1-1 Sheffield United: John McGinn calls for perspective amid 'miracle' Premier League title race - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67809098
-
To much emphasis on being top at Christmas. The only day it matters is the last day of the season after all of the games have finished.
-
I think it was right to disallow it. Ramsey was holding the keeper back by one of his arms, which meant he couldn't catch/clear the ball properly, so the ball ended up back with one of our players. I'd have been pissed off it that had been allowed to stand against us. The penalty for the shove seemed far more clear and obvious.
The ball ended up with their player, so in referee speak there was a different phase of play, they then lost the ball and Villa scored. Any foul on the keeper was irrelevant. This was VAR re refereeing the game.
-
Well. I've slept on it and having been surrounded by Blades fans watching it, I came away feeling that we did what we do, slow methodical build up without breaking through. Then we had a lapse in concentration, and conceded.
Both goals were good.
I'm disappointed our run has finished but look forward to the rest of the season.
If anyone had offered us 7 points from 9 at home so far in December we'd have probably taken it.
I'm pissed off with VAR, and the inconsistency; the push not given because it wasn't clear and obvious, but the foul on the 'keeper given despite not being clear and obvious (and Ramsey himself being fouled).
-
Their goal comes from a lack of concentration immediately after the VAR with Duran. Cash, Konsa and Longlet all switch off.
We are a work in progress, but it’s moving forward.
Anyway, who wants to be top at Christmas? Far rather be top after 7pm on the 19th May next year
UTFV.
-
https://twitter.com/0neAstonVilla/status/1738483500834078941?t=poYMd6P2ZyDrdVw8_kgSjg&s=19
There's a video of the 'handball'
-
One plus point is that we don't give up easily. We've rescued anothen point last night late on.
-
https://twitter.com/0neAstonVilla/status/1738483500834078941?t=poYMd6P2ZyDrdVw8_kgSjg&s=19
There's a video of the 'handball'
crikey, we have seen them given for a lot less.
-
https://twitter.com/0neAstonVilla/status/1738483500834078941?t=poYMd6P2ZyDrdVw8_kgSjg&s=19
There's a video of the 'handball'
crikey, we have seen them given for a lot less.
Every game it’s a lottery.
-
I think it's fair to say VAR had a mare last night and not for the first time.
-
Got round to watching the highlights and the Italian commentator described the Watkins one as 'the Platonic ideal of a foul'. Genuine, genuine fucking bullshit.
I agree the Ramsey one is a foul, albeit a cheap one, but if it is how in the hell isn't it a penalty on Watkins?
Sure, we played far from our best in general, but a goal in the 10th minute changes the game and everyone knows it.
-
I was very impressed with Lenglet, I thought he slotted in nicely.
-
I think it was right to disallow it. Ramsey was holding the keeper back by one of his arms, which meant he couldn't catch/clear the ball properly, so the ball ended up back with one of our players. I'd have been pissed off it that had been allowed to stand against us. The penalty for the shove seemed far more clear and obvious.
The ball ended up with their player, so in referee speak there was a different phase of play, they then lost the ball and Villa scored. Any foul on the keeper was irrelevant. This was VAR re refereeing the game.
That's how I see it too. How far do you go back?
-
As questionable as some of the decisions may be, we can’t get away from the fact that we didn’t do enough. Their Gk had little to do. We need to get better at breaking down low blocks.
-
Just back and crestfallen.
I bemoaned our lack of pace and movement at half time and it was no better second half.
The only time we moved the ball quickly and delivered some quality with runners, zaniolo nicks one
The rest of the game was turgid, slow and predictable.
I’m not sure how much may have been down to arrogance or over confidence, because until the 94th minute, we didn’t show any desire to get into them.
I really don’t know how you can go from an all action, swashbuckling, powerful performance like the Man City game, to that shower.
To lose our incredible home run to Sheffield fucking united is utterly dismal.
It wasn’t dismal. I think we’ve all seen dismal pre Emery and this definitely wasn’t dismal. We’ll have a dip and maybe this is it but with the squad we’ve got, sitting second is unbelievable.
Personally I don’t expect us to stay where we are without 2/3 quality additions and they aren’t cheap or easy to get. At the moment losing a couple of players really affects us but we’ve never been dismal. The players have given everything in every game, have produced some fantastic performances and results and I couldn’t more proud of them and the manager.
-
It felt like one of our home performances in the europa this season. Too slow and circumspect.
We struggle against teams that concede possession and sit deep. And that's even with two wingers-speedsters on the pitch. We will need to develop a setplay that can deal with this sort of game; may need a de Bruyne / Maddison type of player to come in.
-
We’re still progressing. We’re nowhere near the point where we can expect perfection. We need to keep that in mind.
Totally agree. We're just over a year into Unai Emery being with us and the progress has been astonishing really. Like you say though, it's still very much a work in progress after only a year, particularly in the area of squad development.
-
I think it's fair to say VAR had a mare last night and not for the first time.
I think we should use the name of the official, rather than saying VAR, which makes it sound like a machine has made the decision.
John Brooks definitely had a mare.
-
We struggleagainst bus-parking teams, and do better against more expansive ones.
If we dip into the market in January, I hope it is for someone who gives us something else in unlocking teams.
I think Tielemans or Kamara would have helped tonight
Tielemans certainly; Kamara less so since we had 80% possession anyway. We needed the killer passing that Tielemans can dleiver
-
I think it was right to disallow it. Ramsey was holding the keeper back by one of his arms, which meant he couldn't catch/clear the ball properly, so the ball ended up back with one of our players. I'd have been pissed off it that had been allowed to stand against us. The penalty for the shove seemed far more clear and obvious.
The ball ended up with their player, so in referee speak there was a different phase of play, they then lost the ball and Villa scored. Any foul on the keeper was irrelevant. This was VAR re refereeing the game.
That's how I see it too. How far do you go back?
This the premier league on it (my comments in brackets):
The VAR will only check the attacking possession phase that led to the penalty or goal. (technically this is when Ollie regains possession)
The starting point will be limited to the immediate phase. The VAR may not go back to when the attacking team gained possession.
The VAR will consider the ability of the opposing defence to reset, and the momentum of the attack. (this might be their 'get out of jail' card, as they could argue Sheff Utd hadn't properly reset since the Ramsey foul)
-
It felt like one of our home performances in the europa this season. Too slow and circumspect.
We struggle against teams that concede possession and sit deep. And that's even with two wingers-speedsters on the pitch. We will need to develop a setplay that can deal with this sort of game; may need a de Bruyne / Maddison type of player to come in.
He isn't that kind of level, but that's where Emi Buendia is an asset and will be a welcome addition back into the squad.
-
We’re still progressing. We’re nowhere near the point where we can expect perfection. We need to keep that in mind.
Totally agree. We're just over a year into Unai Emery being with us and the progress has been astonishing really. Like you say though, it's still very much a work in progress after only a year, particularly in the area of squad development.
Think we’ve just got to keep the faith and let Emery get more options/fine tune the squad. We’re on the best path we’ve been for decades.
-
It wasn't dismal in the slightest. It was hard work but it wasn't dismal at all.
-
It felt like one of our home performances in the europa this season. Too slow and circumspect.
We struggle against teams that concede possession and sit deep. And that's even with two wingers-speedsters on the pitch. We will need to develop a setplay that can deal with this sort of game; may need a de Bruyne / Maddison type of player to come in.
Lacking Buendia, lacking Tielemans and Ramsey being out of sorts exposes this a bit in my opinion. We have dribblers, we have energy, we have physical presence, and (virtually) everyone is technically sound, but the kind of pass like the one Tielemans set Bailey away with for the Arsenal goal was clearly lacking. Many instances where McGinn or someone overhit, or underhit, or slightly misplaced, or slightly mistimed a pass - we need TIelemans in there to not do that. As for Buendia, he gets his fair share of passes wrong, but he sees openings and angles that others don't.
On Kamara, we don't concede if he's on the pitch. Not necessarily their goal itself (although McGinn did get suckered in like Bouba probably wouldn't have), but the way they harried us off the ball in the latter stages of each half gave them confidence - confidence they wouldn't have had with Kamara shrugging them off and finding an angled ball out to McGinn.
-
We struggleagainst bus-parking teams, and do better against more expansive ones.
If we dip into the market in January, I hope it is for someone who gives us something else in unlocking teams.
I think Tielemans or Kamara would have helped tonight
Tielemans certainly; Kamara less so since we had 80% possession anyway. We needed the killer passing that Tielemans can dleiver
Kamara playing would have allowed McGinn to play further forward and potentially cause problems in the final third.
So would Tielemans though to be fair.
-
No, it wasn't dismal. Even the very best teams can struggle to create against opponents who want only to defend and do it competently.
-
No, it wasn't dismal. Even the very best teams can struggle to create against opponents who want only to defend and do it competently.
And if we'd got the penalty like we deserved it might have been another 8-0.
-
The biggest learn should be how we lost composure after the disallowed goal. Bailey went from having a very good game to appearing desperate and like a headless chicken for example. By the time composure was recovered time had run out.
-
I do find myself more critical about our performances than I used to be - though our performances are better than they used to be. I guess it s about higher expectations after excellent results this year.
-
I don't know if anyone else has said this but 11 points from the last five games is a very good return, had the draws come against Man City and Arsenal I'm sure there would be fewer complaints but they'd both have an extra point. If we're going to have a bad day, better it's against Sheffield United than our direct rivals .
-
I think Pau was our biggest miss last night. Lenglet is looking a capable understudy, but he's not quite on the same level. His passing is tidy rather than incisive. Some of the passes Douglas Luiz was attempting would've had more success coming from 15 or 20 yards deeper. We just couldn't turn them around.
Also, I quite like Wilder as a bloke, but what the funk was that restart after we scored?
-
I think it was right to disallow it. Ramsey was holding the keeper back by one of his arms, which meant he couldn't catch/clear the ball properly, so the ball ended up back with one of our players. I'd have been pissed off it that had been allowed to stand against us. The penalty for the shove seemed far more clear and obvious.
The ball ended up with their player, so in referee speak there was a different phase of play, they then lost the ball and Villa scored. Any foul on the keeper was irrelevant. This was VAR re refereeing the game.
That's how I see it too. How far do you go back?
This the premier league on it (my comments in brackets):
The VAR will only check the attacking possession phase that led to the penalty or goal. (technically this is when Ollie regains possession)
The starting point will be limited to the immediate phase. The VAR may not go back to when the attacking team gained possession.
The VAR will consider the ability of the opposing defence to reset, and the momentum of the attack. (this might be their 'get out of jail' card, as they could argue Sheff Utd hadn't properly reset since the Ramsey foul)
I would argue that the defence had reset as they were in clear control of the ball and mounting an attack. I could understand it as if the flap from the keeper had led to.a challenge in the box and we'd scored directly from that challenge. I wonder if that even came into the discussion when Taylor was at the screen or they just looked at the incident in isolation.
Ah well, nothing we can do about it now. The frustration is just heightened because it has probably prevented us from going top, which although really wouldn't have meant too luch at this stage, would have been a nice little feat.
-
Reasons for consolation, on our winning home run coming to an end: it wasn't against a team around us in the table; we didn't lose; that we didn't lose was due to a last minute equaliser; the point we got took us up a place in the table, into second; the goal we conceded was scored by a player we all like, and want to do well. And we get today off.
-
A decent night's sleep and I'm more annoyed today at the non-penalties than I am the disallowed goal. But the reality is we didn't create enough really good chances in open play given our dominance for the first 70 minutes. If we don't learn how to break down teams who park the bus, then every bottom half team is going to rock up to Villa Park and set up the same as Sheff Utd in the hope of a similar/better outcome.
VAR was always going to screw us at some point this season, it's happening to everyone. And if the time it happens to us we still get a point, while not gifting points to a direct rival, then I guess that's not too bad. If that game gets played 10 times, we win 8 of them.
One thing I quite liked is the classy way Unai dealt with the VAR issues post match. Not bitter, not complaining, saying he disagreed with their decisions but that VAR was good for the referees. Let it be known he wasn't happy on the night, without becoming a bitter whinger like so many in the league when they feel aggrieved. I suspect behind the scenes he might react slightly different.
A frustrating night, but the fact we're disappointed to have only gone joint top is such a brilliant indicator of our progress. It's a great Christmas to be a Villa fan.
Let's hope Unai can use any sense of injustice to add that extra small bit of motivation ahead of Old Trafford. A win there and December goes back to looking absolutely brilliant!
-
I don't know if anyone else has said this but 11 points from the last five games is a very good return, had the draws come against Man City and Arsenal I'm sure there would be fewer complaints but they'd both have an extra point. If we're going to have a bad day, better it's against Sheffield United than our direct rivals .
Counterintuitively this is true.
-
Now I've seen them back all those VAR reviews gave really strange outcomes. If I was a conspiracy theorist it would seem there might be an agenda behind them but I know logically that they are far more likely to be the result of incompetence.
-
Unless its a "clean" goal I've kind of suppressed the celebrations a bit now as I know each one is going to be forensically checked.
It's a total flip of the coin from one game to the next.
-
And on a different note a few of us were talking just night how far we gave come since being in the Championship relegation zone in the minutes before Bruce's first game in a 5:30 kick off against Wolves. It was also , jokingly, suggested that the three Championship years were the modern Villa fan's equivalent of Vietnam. Other fans, particularly those of the Sky 6, don't understand it because they weren't there.
-
Amazing that I feel really deflated in not going top of the League, top of the best league in the world. How far Unai has brought us in such a short period of time.
As to the game, we are very hard to beat, we don’t know when we are beat, we get off the canvas and keep going.
I thought we did miss Kamara more than others do, with him filling the gaps so the full backs can push right on, that’s where we went wrong, we didn’t get wide overloads to avoid the very congested areas. Also maybe we need a new player of the kind we aren’t mentioning, a Coutinho, a Buendia to unlock a packed defence?
Thought so many players were off their feed, McGinn in particularly mishit pass after pass, Ramsey and Diaby ineffectual and Bailey didn’t get the ball early enough.
Thought there was an argument to push McGinn much further forward, go long to him and stop them getting so many players behind the ball so quickly to stretch the game, that we had so much possession but created so little hints at something being quite off.
For them, I’d never really seen in Archer what others did, I still haven’t, he looked like a Poundland Watkins offering few qualities the latter doesn’t possess. I can’t see us bringing him back.
Points dropped on paper but one gained on grass.
-
Now I've seen them back all those VAR reviews gave really strange outcomes. If I was a conspiracy theorist it would seem there might be an agenda behind them but I know logically that they are far more likely to be the result of incompetence.
My better half (not any sort of football fan but who, notably, has eyes) saw the two and just said 'but that's blatant corruption!'. But of course she is Italian so that is the understandable first reaction.
-
The Watkins push was a penalty or are 2 handed pushes allowed these days? If it's the other way round it's a foul 100% of the time.
We were never going to get any decision go our way last night.
-
Now I've seen them back all those VAR reviews gave really strange outcomes. If I was a conspiracy theorist it would seem there might be an agenda behind them but I know logically that they are far more likely to be the result of incompetence.
There's a name for it. Hanlon's Razor: "Never ascribe to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
-
The Watkins push was a penalty or are 2 handed pushes allowed these days?
It was allowed at Wolves as well. Must just be pushes on Ollie.
-
There was one tactical cock up tonight, Diaby and Bailey just ended up in the same place all the time.
I'd prefer to see Diaby & Bailey on left & right wing, interchangeable throughout the game to keep the defenders unbalanced.
Both of them on the same wing, with the fullbacks we have overlapping, seems just a waste.
-
The fouls/s on Watkins in the first half was a stonewall penalty. I was confident it would be given when they looked at VAR and was amazed when they played on. It was a clear penalty.
But I also don’t want the club to go on about like Klopp and Arteta would undoubtably have been doing. So more to love from Emery of that was possible.
Look at the table. It’s astounding where we are right now and I think we’re up there to stay too. Fuck the doubters.
-
Obvious penalty in the first half on Watkins. Clear and compelling. That aside, great we didn’t lose the game.
Agreed, thought it was a blatant handball near end too from Baldock. They were fortunate to get away with those two decisions.
Ramsey did foul their keeper so dont think we should be whinging about that one. Thought Duran should have been sent off too, if their defender had jumped to the ground he would have been.
I think the contention for some was Sheffield had the ball and could have cleared it anyway for a couple of plays and 15 seconds after the foul. So how far back does VAR check for a goal and how many "phases". There has been fouls in previous goal buildups which VAR haven't checked because it was a different phase or it was too far back.
Man City and the offside goal a few years ago, one touch from Mings and the next phase of play had started - according to all the experts.
-
Talk of failure to beat a low block is OTT. with competent VAR usage we would have 2 penalties and the disallowed goal would have stood . With Zaniolos goal that would be 4-1and nobody would be talking about the low block. The 1st half penalty alone would have completely changed the game. A 1st half booking would have had an affect on their game plan too.
-
I'd forgotten about the fouling. Never mind the first half, at least one of them should've gone in the book in the first ten minutes.
-
In total, we wasted about 10 minutes last night trying 'to draw' the opponents on to us so that we could pass out from the back. It should have been obvious early on that this wasn't going to happen.
We need a plan B in such circumstances. All we did was slow the game down to a snails pace which played into Sheffield's hands. Reminiscent of the Forest fiasco which I am sure Wilder studied.
This will not go unnoticed by other managers and we need a Plan B, C or D fast.
A target man up with Watkins, two players hugging the touchline (make pitch bigger), long boots/throws from Martinez etc. Once we get that first goal things will then open up naturally and we can then play our preferred game.
We failed to adapt fast enough last night and paid the price.
There is more than one way to peel a potato.
-
The Watkins push was a penalty or are 2 handed pushes allowed these days? If it's the other way round it's a foul 100% of the time.
We were never going to get any decision go our way last night.
Joelinton got away with one in their game v Arsenal when Gordon scored, so that’s not true. That’s not to say I don’t find it baffling that players get away with it.
-
I think it's fair to say VAR had a mare last night and not for the first time.
I think we should use the name of the official, rather than saying VAR, which makes it sound like a machine has made the decision.
John Brooks definitely had a mare.
If they send the ref to the screen for the pen he gives it.
It’s a kin lottery with these jokers, clueless or corrupt.
-
Don't think we've really played well since the Man City game so to take 7 out of 9 is a positive in the circumstances.
-
Bit frustrating but not as downbeat as I was last night when I got back. Funny really how both Tielemans and Torres to different levels struggled or at least were perceived to be struggling, in the first couple of months of the season. But they have become integral to our successes over recent weeks.
Both would of unlocked their low block last night.
Lenglet played well last night but he’s just not Torres, so hopefully he’ll be back on boxing day, doesnt sound like Tielemans will be.
I cant be arsed to go on about VAR, it is what it is and we’ve had some go for us this season, the penalty against Palace being a debatable one.
My first thought this morning was nearly every other Villa team ive watched would of lost that 1-0 after conceding so late, but not this team.
-
the late equaliser is really important for team spirit and momentum
-
I think the one first half was a penalty.
Sheffield did defend well though, loads behind the ball and they got a point, even the top teams have days like that and we kept going even though they scored late.
-
No doubt it's different on Twitter etc., but the collective shrug on here about these VAR calamities are exactly why we won't achieve greatness. If you lot were proper fans, you'd have each made a four-hour YouTube meltdown and owned the internet. Try as we might, we'll never be Arsenal.
We'll get there. And thank Christ we won't make it easy. Well done to one of the proper Uniteds on tactics working. Well done Villa on playing for the full 100 minutes. Well done everyone on a classy response to refereeing bafflement. What a year.
-
Most annoying thing last night was getting to my seat, asking the person standing there to please move, then her demanding to know my seat number.
"I don't need to know my number thanks as I've sat there for 4 years"
Fucking day trippers.
-
I think it was right to disallow it. Ramsey was holding the keeper back by one of his arms, which meant he couldn't catch/clear the ball properly, so the ball ended up back with one of our players. I'd have been pissed off it that had been allowed to stand against us. The penalty for the shove seemed far more clear and obvious.
The ball ended up with their player, so in referee speak there was a different phase of play, they then lost the ball and Villa scored. Any foul on the keeper was irrelevant. This was VAR re refereeing the game.
That's how I see it too. How far do you go back?
Agreed.
And if we're disallowing goals for that level of contact now most goals scored from corners should be disallowed.
-
Most annoying thing last night was getting to my seat, asking the person standing there to please move, then her demanding to know my seat number.
"I don't need to know my number thanks as I've sat there for 4 years"
Fucking day trippers.
Most of the folk around me are mostly silent all match. Good job for them we've got Emery and not Klopp in charge.
-
Most annoying thing last night was getting to my seat, asking the person standing there to please move, then her demanding to know my seat number.
"I don't need to know my number thanks as I've sat there for 4 years"
Fucking day trippers.
It never ceases to amaze me how people on transport systems and sports and entertainment venues seem utterly incapable of using the alphabet and a numbering system.
-
In total, we wasted about 10 minutes last night trying 'to draw' the opponents on to us so that we could pass out from the back. It should have been obvious early on that this wasn't going to happen.
We need a plan B in such circumstances. All we did was slow the game down to a snails pace which played into Sheffield's hands. Reminiscent of the Forest fiasco which I am sure Wilder studied.
This will not go unnoticed by other managers and we need a Plan B, C or D fast.
A target man up with Watkins, two players hugging the touchline (make pitch bigger), long boots/throws from Martinez etc. Once we get that first goal things will then open up naturally and we can then play our preferred game.
We failed to adapt fast enough last night and paid the price.
There is more than one way to peel a potato.
This. Wilder was never going to come here and go toe-to-toe. Both them and Forest have played a defensive game against us and we haven't been able to break them down. 7 points since the Man City win is impressive considering we haven't really played that well since then. It's the major flaw with Emery's way of playing. When it works, it's brilliant, but when not, it can become a painful experience.
-
I don't know if anyone else has said this but 11 points from the last five games is a very good return, had the draws come against Man City and Arsenal I'm sure there would be fewer complaints but they'd both have an extra point. If we're going to have a bad day, better it's against Sheffield United than our direct rivals .
Counterintuitively this is true.
I was feeling exactly the same. It FEELS more disappointing to draw with Sheffield United having beaten Arsenal and Man City but actually it would have BEEN more disappointing to lose/drop points to Arsenal & Man City. That would have meant that we couldn’t compete with the best, but even the best teams drop points, sometimes to those you’d least expect.
Also - counterintuitively - an Arsenal win would keep us 2nd now, but I would rather drop to third and stay closer on points to both of them looking at the longer view.
-
When things don’t go well or to plan, it’s easy to put it down to missing players.
Lots of people are saying we missed Torres last night.
Personally, I don’t think we did.
Lenglet played very well and had little to do defensively.
I don’t think Messi would have improved our tempo or penetration last night, and Torres wouldn’t have any more impact than Lenglet.
-
On reflection, I think Moreno would have been the better choice than Digne last night.
-
When things don’t go well or to plan, it’s easy to put it down to missing players.
Lots of people are saying we missed Torres last night.
Personally, I don’t think we did.
Lenglet played very well and had little to do defensively.
I don’t think Messi would have improved our tempo or penetration last night, and Torres wouldn’t have any more impact than Lenglet.
I'd agree. I don't think the players themselves were too much of a problem last night, I think the tactics were the issue. We should have gone at them harder and faster, rather than slowly knocking the ball around in front of them looking for chinks in the armour. We needed to force errors out of them rather than wait for them to happen. The disallowed goal showed how error prone they could be under greater pressure
-
I think it was the execution, the final under hit, slightly mis directed pass or miscontroll at the crucial moment.
-
I was Very dissappointing to only get a point against these, we lack a prime couthinio number 10 to penetrate these triple lock defences. Someone like Maddison or Paqueta who can play a slide rule pass or a one two.
For Sheffield, Reggi Blinker had a good game he pretty much shut out both Bailey and Diarby, I thought emery had got it wrong taking the two of them off, however I was pleased Zaniolo popped up with a goal I didn't thnk it was going to happen for him here. I actually see him as big lump, good in the air centre forward rather than the wide and midfield positions he was playing.
This is how it's going to be from now on especially against lower teams, park the bus, we need to do better, play quicker or think differently. Cash saw loads of ball last night but just checked inside and played a square ball every single time.
-
The early goal is vital to us. When we get it we usually win comfortably. We should have had a first half penalty. It's a different game if we get it and score.
-
I think it's fair to say VAR had a mare last night and not for the first time.
I think we should use the name of the official, rather than saying VAR, which makes it sound like a machine has made the decision.
John Brooks definitely had a mare.
If they send the ref to the screen for the pen he gives it.
It’s a kin lottery with these jokers, clueless or corrupt.
I don’t think there’s any evidence of corruption, just incompetence on a huge scale that’s affected every club at some point. Mistake after mistake and total confusion. You can tell when they stand in front of the screen they just don’t know what to give or what to do.
I couldn’t care about the stats, VAR needs to binning.
-
On reflection, I think Moreno would have been the better choice than Digne last night.
I said this at half time. It wasn’t working for Cash so a threat on the left might have opened them up.
-
Nah
When things don’t go well or to plan, it’s easy to put it down to missing players.
Lots of people are saying we missed Torres last night.
Personally, I don’t think we did.
Lenglet played very well and had little to do defensively.
I don’t think Messi would have improved our tempo or penetration last night, and Torres wouldn’t have any more impact than Lenglet.
I'd agree. I don't think the players themselves were too much of a problem last night, I think the tactics were the issue. We should have gone at them harder and faster, rather than slowly knocking the ball around in front of them looking for chinks in the armour. We needed to force errors out of them rather than wait for them to happen. The disallowed goal showed how error prone they could be under greater pressure
Disagree if you add Torres and Tielemans to that game we win. It massively changes the quality and inventiveness of the passing.
-
VAR have just ruled out Zani’s goal.
Because someone opened a packet of crisps at the Arsenal game.
-
The early goal is vital to us. When we get it we usually win comfortably. We should have had a first half penalty. It's a different game if we get it and score.
We might have had an early goal or two if VAR hadn’t ruled out a couple of penalties we should have had, especially when VAR ruled out the goal for the same sort of contact.
-
Last nights performance was a bit like the so called digital light show, we sparkled and dazzled for a brief moment.
Exactly how most of us expected last night, United sat deep and made it difficult for us to play through.
Anyway have a Happy Chritmas all.
-
End of a brilliant record, now, apart from of course challenging for the title, the challenge is to go to the rest of the season unbeaten at VP, improbable, but not impossible.
Re the match, Wilder has clearly got them very well organised, as Chelsea and Liverpool have already found out, we do struggle sometimes, when teams put 11 behind the ball and I was getting frustrated at times with our slow build up play, but we still got a point in the end, which many Villa teams pre Unai, wouldn't have done.
-
Interesting that Mike Dean on Sky Sports has said he would have allowed the goal as it was clearly another phase and Sheff U had had a number of touches of the ball after the incident. It just shows that VAR makes no difference to the accuracy of decision making. Two professional referees looking at the same incident coming to completely different conclusions.
He also thought it was a penalty for the push (and shirt pull) on Watkins.
-
Mike Dead (gulp) is absolutely right.
-
VAR doesn't make no difference, but it's clearly being misused and disallowing that goal was such a classic example.
-
And on a different note a few of us were talking just night how far we gave come since being in the Championship relegation zone in the minutes before Bruce's first game in a 5:30 kick off against Wolves. It was also , jokingly, suggested that the three Championship years were the modern Villa fan's equivalent of Vietnam. Other fans, particularly those of the Sky 6, don't understand it because they weren't there.
You have to go back to the play off final we won…Wilder was part of the Sky team they day having sailed up with Sheff U whilst we scraped up in the play offs….contrast the two since, they were eye balls out last night scrapping to stay up, which they won’t whilst we are in top 4 and flying
-
Ive only just seen it back but how the fuck was the free kick awarded to Sheff Utd and not us just before their goal? Obviously doesn't detract from the fact that we defended it poorly but that's a naff decision.
-
VAR doesn't make no difference, but it's clearly being misused and disallowing that goal was such a classic example.
It makes a difference to offside decisions. We would certainly have had goals given against us incorrectly but for the line drawing but for subjective decision making on fouls, goals and penalties, it has added nothing.
-
Agree with Manu on here that we were lacking intensity and sharpness tonight. They came to camp behind the ball and we never did enough to move them around. I felt Bailey and Diaby were often too close meaning they could crowd us out and the full backs never really got behind their defence.
With such a late equaliser that feels like a point saved and shows great character from the team. However the Ramsey foul on the keeper was clear from the Holte and I don’t think there was enough in other decisions to say we were robbed by VAR.
One for Emery to analyse and work out how we break down teams who come to park the bus as we’ve struggled a few time this season - Palace, Mostar and tonight spring to mind. I see this as a template Burnley will use next week too and hope we have a solution.
-
Whatever was the overall purpose or benefit of VAR has now been completely lost in its actual application, to the point where decisions are being made up according to the discretion and whims of officials not even in the stadium, and it's now impossible to properly enjoy the spontaneous celebration of a goal except in the most clear cut of circumstances.
-
Whatever was the overall purpose or benefit of VAR has now been completely lost in its actual application, to the point where decisions are being made up according to the discretion and whims of officials not even in the stadium, and it's now impossible to properly enjoy the spontaneous celebration of a goal except in the most clear cut of circumstances.
Different to being at the match but I parked up at home last night just as the BBC said we'd scored. Told the other half we were one up "unless there's a VAR problem" I added, almost for comic effect.
-
Whatever was the overall purpose or benefit of VAR has now been completely lost in its actual application, to the point where decisions are being made up according to the discretion and whims of officials not even in the stadium, and it's now impossible to properly enjoy the spontaneous celebration of a goal except in the most clear cut of circumstances.
Completely agree re the spontaneity of celebration, it happens but always tinged with…hang on
-
Before VAR you could take a quick peek at the left back linesman and then celebrate freely. Now it’s a horrible delay as you watch the referee to see if he is allowing play to restart
-
I think it was far too long between the foul and the goal. It was at least 2 phases of play, and they were literally on a counter attack.
-
I was so disappointed leaving the ground last night having had such a good opportunity to go top. However on reflection if someone had said we’d be in the top two or three at Christmas I’d never have believed them.
Just watched back the highlights and for me Ollie should have had a pen and the disallowed goal should have stood.
Sheffield Utd had a plan and they executed it well, we do struggle to find a way through teams who play that way.
The main thing is we kept going and the cross from Dougie and the header from Zaniolo was superb.
6 points from the next 2 games and it’s still dream time….hopefully.
-
VAR doesn't make no difference, but it's clearly being misused and disallowing that goal was such a classic example.
AI referees can't come quick enough.
-
Deep breath, day after the night before, opportunity missed. We didn’t attack them as we should have because however they set up they wouldn’t have been able to hold out as they did. I get they put all their players back but what did we expect them to do. Wilder gave that away in the press conference. The onus was on us to take the game to them, not just in possession but attempts on goal and we didn’t do it. But these are all opportunities to continually learn and improve. This is going to happen again this season. What we need to do is brush this off and go beat Man U and Burnley. Because neither of those teams are any good and we should expect, certainly in the Burnley game that they might take a similar approach to frustrate us. We are still 2nd, will be worst case 3rd this weekend. That’s still fucking amazing and we should enjoy it.
-
A big shout out to the backroom people who seemed to have cloned the McGrath teleport machine and used it on McGinn, The latter mysteriously popped up all over the pitch. He was a joy to watch.
-
Trouble is with matches like this is that we need to go for the throat early in the match. Score 1 and then we’re totally in charge of proceedings. Take that instance when Emi kept rolling the ball backwards and forwards for about 45 seconds. Meanwhile, Blades get back into their shape and we struggle to break them down. We really do need to speed it up against this type of low block football. Of the 80% odd of possession, I reckon about 60% of that was passing it sideways and backwards in our own half. Unfortunately, that also tends to quieten the crowd as there’s not much to get excited about.
-
Someone still needs to explain to me how this wasn’t handball?
https://x.com/tamworthlion/status/1738460564328743398?s=46
-
He only pushed it away, it's not as if he caught it!
-
Someone still needs to explain to me how this wasn’t handball?
https://x.com/tamworthlion/status/1738460564328743398?s=46
It's the kind of thing that is the reason the hand ball law exists
-
He only pushed it away, it's not as if he caught it!
Yeh. True. Well that’s ok then. Unreal.
-
Someone still needs to explain to me how this wasn’t handball?
https://x.com/tamworthlion/status/1738460564328743398?s=46
It's the kind of thing that is the reason the hand ball law exists
Yet they will give it for a ball that grazes a follicle because the arm is somewhat in an unnatural position in a game being played at 100 mph at close quarters. These officials and rule makers are fucking morons.
-
We’ve got to work out a way of breaking these teams down they’re starting to work us out now. Far too slow far too ponderous.
Spot on. Everyone outside the top six are now just defending deep. Brighton came to Villa Park with an attacking game plan and we smashed them 6-1. Coaches up and down the country saw that and things changed. They all set out to defend deep now and the challenge for Emery and the coaches is to come up with a counter plan and that will define our season now. Diaby's drop off in form is quite alarming and he could be the key to breaking teams down if we can get him firing on all cylinders again.
-
Regardless of the decisions last night, we didn't play well enough to beat them. The constant breaks with VAR stealing the limelight killed any atmosphere we might have created, and this projected onto the pitch imo.
We've had some dubious VAR calls go our way in recent times, so let's not go full 'Arteta spitting dummy out' when they don't - Some you win, some you lose (though yes, there were a lot of REALLY BAD ones last night). Wilder did a number on us and their gameplan warranted them going home with a point - We'll learn from it and move on.
After just watching the Spam/Yanited game, we can go up there and clear the system out - Panic over. UTV.
-
Regardless of the decisions last night, we didn't play well enough to beat them. The constant breaks with VAR stealing the limelight killed any atmosphere we might have created, and this projected onto the pitch imo.
We've had some dubious VAR calls go our way in recent times, so let's not go full 'Arteta spitting dummy out' when they don't - Some you win, some you lose (though yes, there were a lot of REALLY BAD ones last night). Wilder did a number on us and their gameplan warranted them going home with a point - We'll learn from it and move on.
After just watching the Spam/Yanited game, we can go up there and clear the system out - Panic over. UTV.
This. They got the rub of the green off VAR but that's how it goes sometimes. I don't want to see us go full Arsenal or Brentford type meltdowns with rattles and dummies everywhere because I watched the reaction from both fanbase and they were laughable. I'd like us to show class and rise above all that. We're Aston Villa not some poxy little whiny club from London.
-
In total, we wasted about 10 minutes last night trying 'to draw' the opponents on to us so that we could pass out from the back. It should have been obvious early on that this wasn't going to happen.
We need a plan B in such circumstances. All we did was slow the game down to a snails pace which played into Sheffield's hands. Reminiscent of the Forest fiasco which I am sure Wilder studied.
This will not go unnoticed by other managers and we need a Plan B, C or D fast.
A target man up with Watkins, two players hugging the touchline (make pitch bigger), long boots/throws from Martinez etc. Once we get that first goal things will then open up naturally and we can then play our preferred game.
We failed to adapt fast enough last night and paid the price.
There is more than one way to peel a potato.
I very much doubt I'm alone in wishing to know of second way. Especially at this time of year.
-
Someone still needs to explain to me how this wasn’t handball?
https://x.com/tamworthlion/status/1738460564328743398?s=46
Agreed. The ball hits his arm (or rather he hits the ball with a deliberate movement of the arm) below the sleeve level - that's evident. terrible decision.
Someone also needs to explain to me how a deliberate and heavy shove in the back, which deprives the player of an attempt on goal is not a penalty.
Someone also needs to explain to me how Duran, having been fouled and is trying to free himself from a player with having handfuls of his shirt in said player's hand, then gets a free kick given against him.
Someone also needs to explain to me why an attacking player jostling with the defenders who shove him into the goalkeeper. whom he momentarily holds, is then penalised 6.7 seconds and five Sheff Utd touches later to overrule a perfectly legal goal.
Someone also needs to explain to me why, in the very last seconds, when Zaniolo gets taken out from behind illegally, he gets told to get up by Anthony Taylor, thus ruling out a free kick in a dangerous area, which could have made a difference. These are all ifs and buts, but there were some very 'iffy' decisions out there tonight.
-
Re. the handball, it looks very much to me that our player lifts their player's arm to the ball.
-
Re. the handball, it looks very much to me that our player lifts their player's arm to the ball.
I think that’s just the angle you’re seeing. I don’t think Ramsey has any impact on the defender choosing to do that.
-
Someone still needs to explain to me how this wasn’t handball?
https://x.com/tamworthlion/status/1738460564328743398?s=46
Agreed. The ball hits his arm (or rather he hits the ball with a deliberate movement of the arm) below the sleeve level - that's evident. terrible decision.
Someone also needs to explain to me how a deliberate and heavy shove in the back, which deprives the player of an attempt on goal is not a penalty.
Someone also needs to explain to me how Duran, having been fouled and is trying to free himself from a player with having handfuls of his shirt in said player's hand, then gets a free kick given against him.
Someone also needs to explain to me why an attacking player jostling with the defenders who shove him into the goalkeeper. whom he momentarily holds, is then penalised 6.7 seconds and five Sheff Utd touches later to overrule a perfectly legal goal.
Someone also needs to explain to me why, in the very last seconds, when Zaniolo gets taken out from behind illegally, he gets told to get up by Anthony Taylor, thus ruling out a free kick in a dangerous area, which could have made a difference. These are all ifs and buts, but there were some very 'iffy' decisions out there tonight.
That's the first time I've seen this. Did var look at that and not give the pen? If so WTAF?
-
Re. the handball, it looks very much to me that our player lifts their player's arm to the ball.
I think that’s just the angle you’re seeing. I don’t think Ramsey has any impact on the defender choosing to do that.
It's got nothing to do with Ramsey. Their player moves his own arm and deliberately nudges the ball away. I'm just getting a look at this and that is a scandalous decision.
-
We’ve got to work out a way of breaking these teams down they’re starting to work us out now. Far too slow far too ponderous.
Spot on. Everyone outside the top six are now just defending deep. Brighton came to Villa Park with an attacking game plan and we smashed them 6-1. Coaches up and down the country saw that and things changed. They all set out to defend deep now and the challenge for Emery and the coaches is to come up with a counter plan and that will define our season now. Diaby's drop off in form is quite alarming and he could be the key to breaking teams down if we can get him firing on all cylinders again.
To put this in context, since we beat Brighton 6-1, in the league we have won 7, drawn 3 and lost 1. I don’t think anything has changed since the Brighton game other than we have got more relentless.
-
After watching the match highlights, this thread should be named Villa v Sheffield and VAR.
I'll give SU credit though, they certainly came to park the bus, and kept it organized throughout, so fair play to them.
That said, the VAR decisions were pretty shocking:
- Ollie takes a clear two handed shove to the back while in the box. While I'm under the opinion that he shouldn't have embellished the fall to the ground so much and that ultimately may have been why he didn't get the call, it should have still been called.
- The disallowed Bailey goal. What in the world? Keeper does get fouled, but he gets back up, dusts himself off, gets back into position, considers if he should grab a quick drink of water from behind the net and check the scores of some other games while his defender dribbles the ball upfield, fixes his hair, and then the defender loses the ball and we score. How is that not a new start of play? Should we disallow their goal because Duran took a foul 5 minutes earlier that went uncalled?
- The handball? How was this even a question? Even from the terrible rear angle (why in the world do they pick the worst possible angle to show for the reviews) .. you could see his right arm move clearly to the left deflecting the ball in that direction. Unless he is incredibly double-jointed, I don't see how a shoulder could redirect a ball that much.
- Durans foul. Granted they didn't give the red for thus, but when his shirt is being stretched twice the width of his body, and he swipes his arm to free himself while hitting 99% shirt and 1% head, it's pretty obvious he was aiming for the shirt. How was that a free kick for them?
-
Looks like it hits his lower shoulder anyway .
-
Looks like it hits his lower shoulder anyway .
(https://i.ibb.co/Zgpth4T/IMG-1414.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Zgpth4T)
-
Blimey! It's Chemical Timmy!
-
Indeed.
-
Looks like it hits his lower shoulder anyway .
(https://i.ibb.co/Zgpth4T/IMG-1414.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Zgpth4T)
Look at that picture is the ball not connecting with the yellow of the shirt ? Don't they often refer to anything below the shirt sleeve ?
-
I think the failure to award the two handed push on Watkins was all about the Jolinton push in the Newcastle vs Arsenal game earlier this season. It was the officials doubling down because if they had awarded it yesterday, all those old complaints would come back from arsenal fans and the media. Rather than admit fault, the officials closed ranks and protected themselves.
-
We’ve got to work out a way of breaking these teams down they’re starting to work us out now. Far too slow far too ponderous.
Spot on. Everyone outside the top six are now just defending deep. Brighton came to Villa Park with an attacking game plan and we smashed them 6-1. Coaches up and down the country saw that and things changed. They all set out to defend deep now and the challenge for Emery and the coaches is to come up with a counter plan and that will define our season now. Diaby's drop off in form is quite alarming and he could be the key to breaking teams down if we can get him firing on all cylinders again.
To put this in context, since we beat Brighton 6-1, in the league we have won 7, drawn 3 and lost 1. I don’t think anything has changed since the Brighton game other than we have got more relentless.
Brentford are a good example of what I'm getting at. We've played them a lot since the championship days and they have always been on the front foot especially at home. Last week they had 10 men in and around their penalty area and played on the counter attack. That's the first time they have played that way against us in years.
-
https://twitter.com/paddypower/status/1738312151230558363?t=TI0mx7UVSih0ZWmMoDh8TQ&s=19
-
https://twitter.com/paddypower/status/1738312151230558363?t=TI0mx7UVSih0ZWmMoDh8TQ&s=19
Brilliant. It’s that fucking obvious.
-
Anybody know what Watkins did straight after the goal and gets a yellow card?
Wrestled the ball back?
The tv footage is v funny. Shows Zaniolo celebrating then land to a Sheff player lying on the floor flat out and Ollie getting a yellow card.
-
He went to get the ball out the net and the Sheffield United player just lay on top of it.
-
He went to get the ball out the net and the Sheffield United player just lay on top of it.
So who got the yellow card?
-
He went to get the ball out the net and the Sheffield United player just lay on top of it.
pretty much summed up their game plan for the night, fair play it worked but the boring ferret breeding wankers are still going down
-
Looks like it hits his lower shoulder anyway .
(https://i.ibb.co/Zgpth4T/IMG-1414.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Zgpth4T)
Motd saying a definite penalty for deliberate hand ball. For some reason the ref justified not giving a penalty by pointing to the top of his shoulder the fucking numpty.
-
Looks like it hits his lower shoulder anyway .
(https://i.ibb.co/Zgpth4T/IMG-1414.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Zgpth4T)
Motd saying a definite penalty for deliberate hand ball. For some reason the ref justified not giving a penalty by pointing to the top of his shoulder the fucking numpty.
2 definite pens then and a dubious goal disallowed. Yeah on reflection whilst we didn't play that well we were robbed
-
Looks like it hits his lower shoulder anyway .
(https://i.ibb.co/Zgpth4T/IMG-1414.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Zgpth4T)
Motd saying a definite penalty for deliberate hand ball. For some reason the ref justified not giving a penalty by pointing to the top of his shoulder the fucking numpty.
Sadly it's an absolute lottery from game to game.
We've just got to hope we don't get many dreadful decisions.
-
Wish we, as fans, could get something going to get VAR binned. It’s a total waste of time and is ruining football. There are as many wrong decisions than right ones so, no different as to what it was prior to its introduction.
-
Wish we, as fans, could get something going to get VAR binned. It’s a total waste of time and is ruining football. There are as many wrong decisions than right ones so, no different as to what it was prior to its introduction.
I don't see much difference to what it was like before.
In fact I think its much worse.
-
He went to get the ball out the net and the Sheffield United player just lay on top of it.
So who got the yellow card?
Not Ollie. The defender keeping the ball got booked.
-
Looks like it hits his lower shoulder anyway .
I am not very familiar with anitomical descriptions, so where exactly is the so called lower shoulder?
-
Looks like it hits his lower shoulder anyway .
I am not very familiar with anitomical descriptions, so where exactly is the so called lower shoulder?
😂
-
Wish we, as fans, could get something going to get VAR binned. It’s a total waste of time and is ruining football. There are as many wrong decisions than right ones so, no different as to what it was prior to its introduction.
Getting rid of VAR wouldn't have helped Villa here though as the on field decision was no penalty.
-
Looks like it hits his lower shoulder anyway .
I am not very familiar with anitomical descriptions, so where exactly is the so called lower shoulder?
The wrist?
-
Wish we, as fans, could get something going to get VAR binned. It’s a total waste of time and is ruining football. There are as many wrong decisions than right ones so, no different as to what it was prior to its introduction.
I don't see much difference to what it was like before.
In fact I think its much worse.
It's the whole not being able to celebrate a goal properly that's the clincher for me. Var sucks the life out of it and that alone is enough to bin it in my view but they won't. They will just carry on ruining the game with it because the genie is out of the bottle now.
-
The yellow ball doesn’t help, if it was white it would have been clearer.
Still looks like an obvious one though
-
Wish we, as fans, could get something going to get VAR binned. It’s a total waste of time and is ruining football. There are as many wrong decisions than right ones so, no different as to what it was prior to its introduction.
Our whole style of play is based on playing a high line and VAR has got numerous offside decisions right for us.
I wouldn't say bin it altogether but it has to be implemented better. Perhaps strip it back to offsides only would be an option.
The biggest change for me to improve it if it has stay would be to incorporate a timer on the review.
If you can't decide in say 10 seconds the original decision stands.
-
Wish we, as fans, could get something going to get VAR binned. It’s a total waste of time and is ruining football. There are as many wrong decisions than right ones so, no different as to what it was prior to its introduction.
Getting rid of VAR wouldn't have helped Villa here though as the on field decision was no penalty.
Perhaps not directly, but indirectly more so, since in my view the introduction of VAR and a referee's awareness of VAR as a fall back has contributed significantly to a drastic decline in the general standard of on-field refereeing, which the abolition of VAR would help reverse.
-
The biggest change for me to improve it if it has stay would be to incorporate a timer on the review.
If you can't decide in say 10 seconds the original decision stands.
This is the answer for me too, also limit the number of times they can view the replay .
If its not clear & obvious after a couple of looks go with onfield decision.
Currently they are scrutinising every goal so much so it looks like they are looking for a way to rule it out .
-
Wish we, as fans, could get something going to get VAR binned. It’s a total waste of time and is ruining football. There are as many wrong decisions than right ones so, no different as to what it was prior to its introduction.
Our whole style of play is based on playing a high line and VAR has got numerous offside decisions right for us.
I wouldn't say bin it altogether but it has to be implemented better. Perhaps strip it back to offsides only would be an option.
The biggest change for me to improve it if it has stay would be to incorporate a timer on the review.
If you can't decide in say 10 seconds the original decision stands.
that could lead to even bigger errors as the idiots panic and make hasty decisions
-
Wish we, as fans, could get something going to get VAR binned. It’s a total waste of time and is ruining football. There are as many wrong decisions than right ones so, no different as to what it was prior to its introduction.
Our whole style of play is based on playing a high line and VAR has got numerous offside decisions right for us.
I wouldn't say bin it altogether but it has to be implemented better. Perhaps strip it back to offsides only would be an option.
The biggest change for me to improve it if it has stay would be to incorporate a timer on the review.
If you can't decide in say 10 seconds the original decision stands.
that could lead to even bigger errors as the idiots panic and make hasty decisions
Listening to that Spurs Liverpool transcript for the controversial decision in that game sounded like total panic anyway with no time constraints.
We're no better off with it and although it won't be scrapped it should be.
-
Just seen the "handball" on MOTD. How VAR cannot tell Anthony Taylor that that was clearly and obviously not his shoulder that connected with the ball is beyond me. If the tee shirt line is the yardstick it should be as "easy" as offside. Draw a line on the tee short line and If any of the ball connects below the tee shirt it's handball
-
It seems to me that the philosophy of VAR is to, if in any doubt, err in favour of the defensive team. Even if the balance of doubt seems to lean heavily towards the attack.
In any case, we can moan about refereeing decisions all we like, but the real reason we didn't win is because we didn't create enough in open play. We weren't hard, fast and direct enough. All we can do now is learn from that for similar, future games. E. g. the one we've got coming up next weekend...
-
It seems to me that the philosophy of VAR is to, if in any doubt, err in favour of the defensive team. Even if the balance of doubt seems to lean heavily towards the attack.
In any case, we can moan about refereeing decisions all we like, but the real reason we didn't win is because we didn't create enough in open play. We weren't hard, fast and direct enough. All we can do now is learn from that for similar, future games. E. g. the one we've got coming up next weekend...
So from everything you’ve seen over the last 14 months, do you think Unai Emery’s tactics will be to go direct?
-
Our whole style of play is based on playing a high line and VAR has got numerous offside decisions right for us.
We don't really play a high line.
-
Can't blame VAR for not giving the penalty for Watkins, it's down to the referee, get rid of VAR and you have people moaning we need new technology because Liverpool Manchester United Arsenal etc are getting all the decisions,
-
It seems to me that the philosophy of VAR is to, if in any doubt, err in favour of the defensive team. Even if the balance of doubt seems to lean heavily towards the attack.
In any case, we can moan about refereeing decisions all we like, but the real reason we didn't win is because we didn't create enough in open play. We weren't hard, fast and direct enough. All we can do now is learn from that for similar, future games. E. g. the one we've got coming up next weekend...
So from everything you’ve seen over the last 14 months, do you think Unai Emery’s tactics will be to go direct?
Think they were times during the game that we could have used it to our advantage
-
Our whole style of play is based on playing a high line and VAR has got numerous offside decisions right for us.
We don't really play a high line.
Oh yes we do. We also play a medium-line sometimes. Against Sheffield United, however, the kind was on halfway.
-
Our whole style of play is based on playing a high line and VAR has got numerous offside decisions right for us.
We don't really play a high line.
Oh yes we do. We also play a medium-line sometimes. Against Sheffield United, however, the kind was on halfway.
We play one of the lowest in the Premier League.
-
https://twitter.com/paddypower/status/1738312151230558363
-
It seems to me that the philosophy of VAR is to, if in any doubt, err in favour of the defensive team. Even if the balance of doubt seems to lean heavily towards the attack.
In any case, we can moan about refereeing decisions all we like, but the real reason we didn't win is because we didn't create enough in open play. . All we can do now is learn from that for similar, future games. E. g. the one we've got coming up next weekend...
I disagree.
The real reason we didn't win is because we weren't hard, fast, direct enough & we didn't create enough in open play.
AND...
The officials fucked us over using VAR at least three times that would have directly contributed to either a goal, or two penalties.
If we score earlier, then Sheff U cant sit back with 357 men, a clamped bus & The 4th Royal Irish Dragoon Guards protecting their box.
They would have been forced to come out & make a go of it, we would have controlled the ball more & then once drawn them out into the open, we would have sliced them open & probably scored more.
Yes, we need to be better breaking down teams.
But we wouldn't have had to be in that Sheff U game if the officials did their jobs right...
-
Var cannot be subjective that’s the biggest problem with it. Call it for offsides and possibly penalties and get the rest of it in the bin. Oh and the on field referees should stick with their decisions more often. They’re obviously being told to change their minds.
-
Did anyone else also perceive that as well as defending their box, SU tried to kettle us down our left side? I don't know if they saw Lucas as a particular threat, perhaps?
-
Was this game VAR's worst night ever?
Okay, there wasn't a blatant injustice like the Liverpool non-goal at Spurs, but we've got plenty of other things to go on.
1. A two-handed shove in the back does not constitute a foul in the penalty area.
2. A relatively less meaningful hand on the 'keeper's arm DOES constitute a foul in the penalty area.
3. Twenty minutes later, a hand on the arm of a Villa player does NOT constitute a foul outside the penalty area. The free-kick is given to the other side.
4. Comments on the farce of the disallowed goal and the second-half handball in the box have already been covered by some of the folks on here.
Quite a collection, that. Enough to make a disappointing 1-1 draw into a four-goal stuffing.
The failure to punish SU's serial fouling in the first half could also be included.
When I say VAR got it wrong, so did the ref as well, I'm afraid -and by reputation he's one of the best in the league!
I'm disappointed that we didn't 'do a Brighton' and make a formal complaint and demand an apology from Webb, just to put a marker down and hopefully encourage the idea that we shouldn't have to put up with this level of incompetence.
-
Excellent summary Dave, I think one of the main issues with VAR is that refs don’t always “ref” to the level they should, instead they are relying on the backup of VAR when they should lead from the front and manage the game first and foremost.
VAR has been a shambles, pure and simple.
-
Yes, there simply aren't enough good quality refs around to be on the pitch and watching in the studio.
In the end 'opinion' decisions are just that, and it's hard to bend the rules into a shape so that all officials will agree.