Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Drummond on December 15, 2023, 04:35:11 PM
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I thought this would be good/interesting, so to start.
Villa are the only club to win both the FA Cup Final and the league title on the same day: There was almost a full league programme on the day of the final on 10th April 1897 and results of those games ensured that Villa could not be displaced at the top of the table.
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Bury 1, Derby 0, I remember reading somewhere.
We were busy beating Everton 3-2 in one of the great finals.
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(https://i.ibb.co/7b0Zk5F/on-this-day-25-sep-james-settle.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7b0Zk5F)
James Settle (5 September 1875 – 1 June 1954) was an English professional footballer. A fast-paced inside or outside right, he could have chosen sprinting if he had not taken up football.
Settle played for Bolton Wanderers and Bury before joining Everton for a fee of £400.
In 1908 Settle was sold to Stockport County, his final club before retiring from football.
Settle represented England 6 times between 1899 and 1903, playing in the British Home Championship against the other Home Nations, scoring 6 times, including a hat-trick against Ireland in February 1899. Settle scored England's only goal in the match against Scotland in April 1902 which was expunged from the records and replayed as a result of the Ibrox disaster which occurred during the game. Settle's goal in this match is not included in his international record.
On the 10th April 1897 Bury beat Derby 1-0 with Settle scoring the only goal at Gigg Lane in front of 6,108 spectators. Derby began the day in 2nd place, 7 points behind Villa with 4 games remaining. Defeat meant Villa were crowned league champions. That day Villa were otherwise engaged 200 miles or so south playing and beating Everton 3-2 in the FA Cup Final at the Crystal Palace in front of 65,891.
We actually finished the season 11 points clear with Derby being overtaken into second place by Sheffield United. Jimmy Settle didn't win us the double but he did contribute to make us the the only team to achieve the league and cup "double" on the same day.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Settle
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Just visited the Facts Net website to find out some interesting stuff about Aston Villa for this thread.
Apparently, Brian Clough was our legendary manager in 1977 and Paul McGrath and David Platt were from Scotland.
Learn something new every day.
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Just visited the Facts Net website to find out some interesting stuff about Aston Villa for this thread.
Apparently, Brian Clough was our legendary manager in 1977 and Paul McGrath and David Platt were from Scotland.
Must be the same website that told you that "baldies are the best lovers".
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Just visited the Facts Net website to find out some interesting stuff about Aston Villa for this thread.
Apparently, Brian Clough was our legendary manager in 1977 and Paul McGrath and David Platt were from Scotland.
Must be the same website that told you that "baldies are the best lovers".
It was.
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To the best of my knowledge, there's only one player who has played for Villa, scored for Villa, but never scored for Villa while playing for Villa.
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To the best of my knowledge, there's only one player who has played for Villa, scored for Villa, but never scored for Villa while playing for Villa.
Ivo Stas. That well known pub quiz answer.
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I thought Stas never played for the first team.
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I thought Stas never played for the first team.
Urban myth, I don’t think he ever existed
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I thought Stas never played for the first team.
He played a pre-season friendly iirc, maybe somewhere like Whitby?
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I thought Stas never played for the first team.
He played a pre-season friendly iirc, maybe somewhere like Whitby?
Witney Town.
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That's it, I was only a couple of letters out!
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/dDAAAOSw3XxhCB4f/s-l960.jpg)
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Just visited the Facts Net website to find out some interesting stuff about Aston Villa for this thread.
Apparently, Brian Clough was our legendary manager in 1977 and Paul McGrath and David Platt were from Scotland.
Must be the same website that told you that "baldies are the best lovers".
It was.
I knew it wasn't in Cosmo. :)
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That's it, I was only a couple of letters out!
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/dDAAAOSw3XxhCB4f/s-l960.jpg)
In one of his many comeback games he also appeared (played would be an outrageous exaggeration) for a youth team at Shrewsbury Tech. After wandering around harmlessly for about 25 minutes he grasped the back of his thigh the made the rolling hands gesture to be subbed and left the pitch like a greyhound.
But I can confirm he was wearing a Villa kit.
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We were the first team to concede a league goal on Christmas Day. Preston's Nick Ross (not the Crimewatch bloke) scored against us after 6 mins on Dec. 25, 1889.
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Not so much a stat but shared a drink in my local this weekend with a great niece of Villa legend Joe Bache.
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Ever since our inception, there has only ever been one decade where we didn't at the very least compete for, or win a trophy or a title.
It was after World War 2.
Every other decade we have either won a title or trophy, or at the very least, competed in the final two of either league or cup.
Which is an incredible level of consistency over the course of 150 years...
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We were joint winners of the 1943/44 War Cup.
"With the score in the final tied at 1–1 and, due to transport restrictions and bombing threats, a replay not an option, the game ended a draw. Charlton Athletic and Aston Villa shared the 1944 trophy, an event that had not happened before and did not happen again."
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We were joint winners of the 1943/44 War Cup.
"With the score in the final tied at 1–1 and, due to transport restrictions and bombing threats, a replay not an option, the game ended a draw. Charlton Athletic and Aston Villa shared the 1944 trophy, an event that had not happened before and did not happen again."
Loving these stats, but I hope we will never need to compete for this honour ever again.
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Apparently Ian Wright played for us...
The Sun Football
41 minutes ago
Ian Wright tells amazing Dwight Yorke story: 🗣️ “I was at Aston Villa at the same time as Dwight Yorke and he was such a great player.
“Whenever I lifted my head up he was always there, giving me an option. One day I pulled him aside and asked him how he was always so open. He told me that when he first came over, Graham Taylor had told him that no matter where the ball was on the pitch he should be available. He was so easy to play with.
“He had a ridiculous amount of skill. He used to stand in a small bin in the dressing room, and any time a new player came in, he would bet them £100 that he could do 50 keep-ups with his head without falling out! Obviously everyone took the bet because it seems impossible – but I never saw him fail to do it!"
(https://scontent.fbhx4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/413947964_892465932248994_7848170344889928406_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s640x640&_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=3635dc&_nc_ohc=TMkE1C8PXgIAX-wamp1&_nc_ht=scontent.fbhx4-1.fna&oh=00_AfDfigxbROEVfR4eeMXrXzYSj8bgpPPzqrGIUfGnKjF9Rg&oe=658EBC89)
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Villa won the only professional baseball league in 1890-91 and are still the current holders of the title.
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Tommy Ball centre half for Aston Villa, still the only active professional footballer to be murdered, shot by his landlord, George Stagg in Perry Barr in Nov 1923, just over 100 years ago.
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Villa won the only professional baseball league in 1890-91 and are still the current holders of the title.
🎵 you’ll never sing that, you’ll never sing that, ets, etc…
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You can get from Villa's first match to the present day with 14 degrees of separation, using players whose playing careers at the club have overlapped:
1874 - 1883 - Teddy Lee (12+Games/? Goals)
1878 - 1890 - Archie Hunter (73/42)
1889 - 1902 - James Cowan (356/27)
1900 - 1914 - Joe Bache (474/184)
1914 - 1929 - Frank Moss (255/9)
1927 - 1947 - Eric Houghton (393/169)
1946 - 1961 - Johnny Dixon (388/132)
1959 - 1976 - Charlie Aitken (561/14)
1975 - 1985 - Gordon Cowans (414/49)
1979 - 1996 - Nigel Spink (361)
1995 - 2006 - Lee Hendrie (300/32)
2005 - 2018 - Gabby Agbonlahor (391/86)
2013 - 2021 - Jack Grealish (213/32)
2019 - present - Jacob Ramsey (108/13)
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These players have all donned the claret and blue. What else do they all have in common?
Jean II Makoun,
Idrissa Gana Gueye,
Joe Cole,
Lucas Digne,
Anwar El-Ghazi
Kenza Dali.
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Also played for Lille.
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I thought Stas never played for the first team.
He may not have played but I vaguely recall him being an unused substitute for a first team game and seeing him warming up on the Trinity Road touchline.
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That time we stuck two fingers up to the Nazi's.
https://www.avfc.co.uk/News/2012/11/27/from-the-archives-villa-say-no-to-the-nazis (https://www.avfc.co.uk/News/2012/11/27/from-the-archives-villa-say-no-to-the-nazis)
I fucking love this club...
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Slightly different (and longer) take on the same incident.
“The careful diplomatic efforts which had preceded the England fixture were put into disarray twenty-fours later following the Aston Villa game. While the second match also attracted a crowd of 110,000, the atmosphere though was in marked contrast to Germany versus England, which one British press report claimed had been played in silence. Before the game the Villa players had given the Nazi salute as instructed and would go on to win 3-2. However, this match itself was marked by “a continual chorus of cat-calls and shrill whistling”. During the match Villa had stirred the fans’ ire by successfully employing an offside trap. This tactic was unfamiliar to German football at the time and had the effect of frustrating fans and players alike. Tensions were raised further after Villa’s Alec Massie brought down Germany’s inside-left, Camillo Jerusalem, with players from each side needing to be separated by the referee.
The jeering intensified after the final whistle, when the Villa players this time failed to give the Nazi salute demanded by protocol. This was later claimed as a misunderstanding: most of the Villa players had been near the dressing rooms and had simply walked off at the end of the game. Nevertheless, their actions sparked some frenetic diplomatic activity on both sides. Goebbels suppressed hostile press coverage as well as photographs of the Villa players walking off the pitch, on the grounds that it might have affected Anglo-German goodwill. The FA then put pressure on Villa via Fred Rinder, an FA councillor and long-serving Villa director, to ensure that protocols would be followed for Villa’s next game a few days later in Dusseldorf.
While the Dusseldorf game – against another German Select XI – passed without incident, Villa players dutifully saluting, tensions resurfaced at the team’s third match, this time in Stuttgart. Ahead of the game, attempts had been made to placate German spectators, who were informed that Villa’s offside trap was in accordance with the laws of the game and warned against making hostile demonstrations. This had no effect, and after every offside decision the crowd rose as one to boo and hiss the English side’s tactics. It was a rough game, with Villa playing for much of the game with ten men due to an injury to one of their players. After the game the Villa players were given protection by SS guards and Stormtroopers.
While some post-war accounts sought to claim that English players had been unhappy at having to give the salute, there was little indication of this at the time. Indeed, the policy of appeasement was generally accepted in Britain until after the Munich Conference. Nevertheless, the Villa games of 1938 provide an insight into the fragile nature of diplomatic relations at the time, as well as the increasing importance of international sport as a form of soft power.”
https://www.historyworkshop.org.uk/sport/aston-villa-the-offside-trap-and-the-nazi-salute/
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SHA take on the same incident.
Even 85 years ago, DVBs were known for getting chased by other clubs' fans, and had to get help from their Nazi SS pals to make it out safely.
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Wasn't the Blues take on it led by Skidmark devoting massive back page headlines and a four page spread in the Mercury when photos of following Dusseldorf match came out?
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During the match Villa had stirred the fans’ ire by successfully employing an offside trap. This tactic was unfamiliar to German football at the time and had the effect of frustrating fans and players alike.
Ahead of the game, attempts had been made to placate German spectators, who were informed that Villa’s offside trap was in accordance with the laws of the game and warned against making hostile demonstrations. This had no effect, and after every offside decision the crowd rose as one to boo and hiss the English side’s tactics.
Using the offside trap to piss the opposition off for 86 years.
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Wasn't the Blues take on it led by Skidmark devoting massive back page headlines and a four page spread in the Mercury when photos of following Dusseldorf match came out?
Those pricks would have loved to have joined in...
(https://i.ibb.co/VmQC0Gd/IMG-0177.jpg)
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Villa are 5th in the overall table from inception to the end of the 22/23 season.
Obviously, we have more points on the board from the 23/24 season, but the top 6 positions haven't changed...
(https://i.ibb.co/pQsXd8T/IMG-0096.jpg)
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Rather than start a new 24/25 thread this thread can be used for new facts!
Onana’s goal v West Ham was the 27th different player to have scored on their Premier League debut for Aston Villa, the joint-most of any side (also Chelsea).
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Rather than start a new 24/25 thread this thread can be used for new facts!
Onana’s goal v West Ham was the 27th different player to have scored on their Premier League debut for Aston Villa, the joint-most of any side (also Chelsea).
I had a think of recent(ISH) ones and aside from Onana I came up with:
Bent
Draper
Staunton?
Regis?
And that's about it. Thinking Carew or Young may have scored on their debut at Newcastle but can't remember.
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Mentioned in the match or post match thread but we also had Dublin and Diaby.
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Rather than start a new 24/25 thread this thread can be used for new facts!
Onana’s goal v West Ham was the 27th different player to have scored on their Premier League debut for Aston Villa, the joint-most of any side (also Chelsea).
I had a think of recent(ISH) ones and aside from Onana I came up with:
Bent
Draper
Staunton?
Regis?
And that's about it. Thinking Carew or Young may have scored on their debut at Newcastle but can't remember.
If the stat is purely Prem League then Regis was the season before....assuming he is correct. I thought Atkinson might have been one too but I think that was the same season as Regis.
Saw Nilis and Benteke mentioned in the match thread. Was Gestede one?!
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Rather than start a new 24/25 thread this thread can be used for new facts!
Onana’s goal v West Ham was the 27th different player to have scored on their Premier League debut for Aston Villa, the joint-most of any side (also Chelsea).
I had a think of recent(ISH) ones and aside from Onana I came up with:
Bent
Draper
Staunton?
Regis?
And that's about it. Thinking Carew or Young may have scored on their debut at Newcastle but can't remember.
If you are including Cyrille Regis and Steve Staunton Dalian Atkinson scored on his debut at Hillsborough that day as well. Also it was Ashley Young who scored in his first game at Newcastle.
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Heskey also scored on his debut
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Coutinho?
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A couple more off the top of my head. Milan Baros, and going back a bit further, David Platt. Both against Blackburn.
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Coutinho?
He setup the goals but didn't score that first match I believe, he did score on his starting debut. But it was under Gerrard so trying to forget that period.
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A couple more off the top of my head. Milan Baros, and going back a bit further, David Platt. Both against Blackburn.
Only when football really started in 92 for the stat in the OP.
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A couple more off the top of my head. Milan Baros, and going back a bit further, David Platt. Both against Blackburn.
Only when football really started in 92 for the stat in the OP.
In that case does Dalian Atkinson count against Ipswich in 1992? Sorry being a bit facetious 😉
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I've counted Dalian and McGinn, on the basis they both scored in their first Premier League games for us (Dalian also scored on his real debut, the year before). I think this is the lot unless I have skimmed over anyone...
Dalian Atkinson @ Ipswich 1992*
John Fashanu @ Everton 1994
Mark Draper vs Man Utd 1995
Paul Merson vs Wimbledon 1998
Dion Dublin vs Tottenham 1998
Luc Nilis vs Chelsea 2000
Stefan Moore vs Charlton 2002
Joey Gudjonsson @ Middlesbrough 2003
Carlton Cole vs Southampton 2004
Kevin Phillips vs Bolton 2005
Milan Baros vs Blackburn 2005
Gabriel Agbonlahor @ Everton 2006
Ashey Young @ Newcastle 2007
Zat Knight vs Chelsea 2007
Steve Sidwell @ Wigan 2008
Emile Heskey @ Portsmouth 2009
Darren Bent vs Manchester City 2011
Christian Benteke vs Swansea 2012
Antonio Luna @ Arsenal 2013
Rudi Gestede @ Bournemouth 2015
John McGinn @ Tottenham 2019*
Ally Samatta @ Bournemouth 2020
Ross Barkley vs Liverpool 2020
Danny Ings @ Watford 2021
Philippe Coutinho vs Man Utd 2022
Moussa Diaby @ Newcastle 2023
Amadou Onana @ West Ham 2024
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Great list, but that's 28 players and McGinn and Dalian wouldn't count as they weren't debuts for the club. There's apparently 27 so one missing still.
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I haven't seen it confirmed anywhere that Dalian and McGinn don't count.
Here is the list I was working from, anyway, if others want to find the missing one(s). 🙂
http://home.aland.net/bolin.jakobsson/villamatches/
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I haven't seen it confirmed anywhere that Dalian and McGinn don't count.
Here is the list I was working from, anyway, if others want to find the missing one(s). 🙂
http://home.aland.net/bolin.jakobsson/villamatches/
But if they DO count then that's 28. There are only 27 according to the OP.
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Maybe it was 27 before Onana? I can't remember the exact wording the commentator used and can't see confirmation online.
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Anyway I probably just skimmed over a season on that list I provided.
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Take away Walker off the list (debut as a sub at Leeds in 97) and that gets you to the 27 I think.
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Last time Villa won on the first day of the premier league away from home, they were relegated that season.
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Take away Walker off the list (debut as a sub at Leeds in 97) and that gets you to the 27 I think.
Ta. Done, and added asterisks to Atkinson and McGinn so people can count them or not, whichever they prefer. 🙂
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Youri Tielemans was the first Villa player to score at the Euros in 20 years!
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All 4 of Onana goals scored in the Premier League (one for Villa and three for Everton) have been headers.
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Aston Villa 0-0 Man Utd
This was Aston Villa’s first goalless draw at Villa Park in 62 Premier League matches (since May 2021 v Everton under Dean Smith)
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Aston Villa 0-0 Man Utd
This was Aston Villa’s first goalless draw at Villa Park in 62 Premier League matches (since May 2021 v Everton under Dean Smith)
I did think about this last night and wondered if it was Emery's first 0-0 at VP.