Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: PeterWithesShin on September 27, 2023, 09:40:35 PM
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Meh. Winning trophies is so last century.
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C- must do better
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Never wanted the trophy anyway.
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Lacklustre
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It sounds like, once again, the nature of the loss is almost worse than the fact we lost.
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Shit cup anyway.
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:(
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He’s not very good in cups is he?
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Can we just abstain from the EFL cup, we obviously don’t give a shit about it.
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We'd have won that with Nike shirts.
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Hope Emery realises he can't do this in the FA Cup.
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Dougie and Torres only players to come through that with any credit. The rest were garbage… Front 3 (both the starting lineup and FT) were anonymous throughout.
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Rubbish, really.
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Once I saw the lineups of both teams I was glad I wasn’t there.
But losing to Everton at home is not a good look.
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That was absolutely dismal. Completely unacceptable.
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Pick a crap side, you get a crap result
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With all of the injuries we have suffered, we have found out the hard way that we cannot afford to rotate the squad. A couple pitiful performance on display today, which will hopefully freeze a few grifters out of the squad for some time.
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Dog-shit...
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Could barely string 2 passes together. Poor Kellyman didn't touch the ball. Underwhelming in a competition we were targeting. Poor.
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Tielemans is looking like a disastrous signing at the moment. What the fuck is up with the idle bastard?
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Rubbish - terrible mistakes for their goals.
It’s not great that we look so disjointed when we rotate a few players and those who come in look hopeless. We also struggle to chase games. Not good enough.
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Tielemans is becoming a worry.
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Tielemans is becoming a cause for concern.
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Winning is a habit we haven't quite grasped yet. Everton at home? FFS!
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Pick a crap side, you get a crap result
Take a look at this before criticising the manager: https://www.avfchistory.co.uk/aston-villa-managers
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We were hopeless tonight. Every single player was absolute shit for us. Half-arsed, unbothered, lazy, lethargic.
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Tielemans is looking like a disastrous signing at the moment. What the fuck is up with the idle bastard?
An awful signing. I hate my dad being right, the Leicester bastard.
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Honestly, it's time to change something fundamental, especially against Brighton.
The shape doesn't work with this set, we're always overrun in midfield with various forwards running off in irrelevant directions. We're so slow in building out from the back, and it really shows - once behind this season we've barely created anything, there's no way through low blocks and no apparent idea of how to find one.
Zaniolo tonight needed to be where Diaby was and vice versa. How do we get them into the game in a meaningful way? They were both bad, but part of that was the shape, and where they were getting the ball.
Cash is just not good enough. His touch isn't secure enough, his technique is slippery, his positioning dodgy. There's a reason Ashley Young played instead of him so much last year, and why Konsa was probably earmarked to go right this year.
Tielemans, literally goodbye.
I'm afraid I think Brighton will slaughter us. I admire Unai for sticking to guns that fire for him more often than not, but in terms of performances it just isn't working. Something needs to change.
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If this is how it's going to be in the cups this season then Emery should say something to that effect.
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The players we added for this year, with Pau Torres, Clement Lenglet, Youri Tielemans, Nicolo Zaniolo and Moussa Diaby, we can feel stronger than last year and we can be contenders in different competitions because we can use different players, playing Sunday, playing Thursday, playing in cups. That is our challenge this year: try to be a contender and be ready with our players to take a high level in different competitions we are going to face.
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Further proof the second string can’t be trusted/isn’t good enough.
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Dougie and Torres only players to come through that with any credit. The rest were garbage… Front 3 (both the starting lineup and FT) were anonymous throughout.
Digne and Kamara were decent too when they came on. Tielemans looks finished at this level unfortunately. Emery picked a farce of a team and we were fortunate Everton didn't put us away in the first half.
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midweek football is making me miserable
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Tielemans is looking like a disastrous signing at the moment. What the fuck is up with the idle bastard?
He looked decent in preseason but you'd almost think the fact he wasn't automatically given a starting spot has got him throwing the toys out already.
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Just shit. I thought he wanted to win cups?!
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Dougie and Torres only players to come through that with any credit. The rest were garbage… Front 3 (both the starting lineup and FT) were anonymous throughout.
Digne and Kamara were decent too when they came on. Tielemans looks finished at this level unfortunately. Emery picked a farce of a team and we were fortunate Everton didn't put us away in the first half.
I thought that was one of Luiz's worst displays for us, he was as bad as everybody else.
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Thought this guy was a cup specialist ?? ....fuck me he has lost to stevenage limp exit at man u , a prety crap polish team and now tonights debacle !! Please dont try and convince me he expects champions league ......yet another wasted season cuz if anybody thinks we are gunna finish above city arse spuds & brighton you are more deluded than emery thinking mcginn is a left back
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Tielemans is looking like a disastrous signing at the moment. What the fuck is up with the idle bastard?
He looked decent in preseason but you'd almost think the fact he wasn't automatically given a starting spot has got him throwing the toys out already.
Is it true that Castore have just put in a complaint about him saying he makes their shirt look bad?
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The players we added for this year, with Pau Torres, Clement Lenglet, Youri Tielemans, Nicolo Zaniolo and Moussa Diaby, we can feel stronger than last year and we can be contenders in different competitions because we can use different players, playing Sunday, playing Thursday, playing in cups. That is our challenge this year: try to be a contender and be ready with our players to take a high level in different competitions we are going to face.
Good evening. Sorry to the fans.
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Just shit. I thought he wanted to win cups?!
Exactly. That's the second time this season already.
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What's the point in resting Digne then bringing him on at half time anyway because it's painfully obvious that McGinn isn't a LB. Don't they try these things out in training first?
As for Tielemans, I wouldn't even have him on the bench for the next few games. Thinks he's Billy Big Bollocks because he played for fucking Leicester then plays like that. Absolute waste of skin.
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Further proof the second string can’t be trusted/isn’t good enough.
It's still very early in the season but I still don't have much faith in the first string. What I do know is that with our summer purchases, without injuries only Diaby would be in the first XI compared to last season.
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The players we added for this year, with Pau Torres, Clement Lenglet, Youri Tielemans, Nicolo Zaniolo and Moussa Diaby, we can feel stronger than last year and we can be contenders in different competitions because we can use different players, playing Sunday, playing Thursday, playing in cups. That is our challenge this year: try to be a contender and be ready with our players to take a high level in different competitions we are going to face.
I agree, but with that said Monchi better get back to work. Who knows if Zaniolo will stay, Tielemans is struggling, and Lenglet is just a stop-gap until we're healthy again at CB.
The squad has to be rotated. Unfortunately today we found out that some of those backups aren't up for it and have absolutely no sense of urgency when its their time.
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Total ass
We’ll need to be way better than that on Saturday.
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McGinn at left back, what on earth was that about?
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Woeful. Not a single redeeming feature from that performance. Lack of everything you need to win football matches. Most disappointing aspect was the perceived lack of effort.
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We need Moreno and JJ back as soon as possible down the left. Disappointing that both have looked close to returning and neither in the squad tonight. Anyway, a poor show tonight. Stevenage last January and now lost to a poor Everton team tonight.
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Emery will have a hard time explaining this if he doesnt take it on himself.
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I don’t know if it’s a lack of understanding of the system or what but when fringe players are coming in they look utterly hopeless. Then the whole team looks confused and down on energy. It can’t keep happening.
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Why sign a French international defender and then play an average midfield player in his place in the back line? If he's not capable of standing in why buy him? Why was Tielamans still on the pitch at the start of the second half when universally everyone agreed that he was the weal link?
Why so many false dawns for Villa fans - it's exhausting
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Some of our players leaving the pitch in a completely dry shirt is one of the most staggering things ever witnessed.
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Could barely string 2 passes together. Poor Kellyman didn't touch the ball. Underwhelming in a competition we were targeting. Poor.
Hahahahahaha. No fucking way Emery was targeting this competition.
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Aston Villa 1-2 Everton: James Garner and Dominic Calvert-Lewin score - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66862354
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Its all v predictable in midfield when we have possession. V little movement up front and without width (Bailey going off) it just gets worse. Pickford had zlich to do tonight which says it all. Frustrating
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It's difficult to describe how poor we were tonight. I'm utterly fucked off going out of cups at the opening hurdle. That Man Utd, Stevenage and now Everton. I thought things would be different in the cups under Uni but it's the same old shit. The only saving grace for me is that I don't have a 4 hour drive home.
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Hope Emery realises he can't do this in the FA Cup.
This.
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Weak and pathetic as feeble a performance as any I have witnessed in the cup in the recent years. The attitude stank and lack of application was mind boggling.
Tonight was a disgrace to the good name of Aston Villa. Well done to Everton fully deserved their win.
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Someone in the match thread reminded us that we've lost Mings, Buendia, Moreno, Carlos and Ramsey since the start of the season which is half our outfield team if all selected. I think that should be considered before people start putting the boot into Emery.
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A fiver would have been too much for that never mind £37. That was truly dreadful. Not much else to say about it really.
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Its all v predictable in midfield when we have possession. V little movement up front and without width (Bailey going off) it just gets worse. Pickford had zlich to do tonight which says it all. Frustrating
Diaby forced two pretty good saves. That said, we couldn't get him involved at all in the first half.
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Weak and pathetic as feeble a performance as any I have witnessed in the cup in the recent years. The attitude stank and lack of application was mind boggling.
Tonight was a disgrace to the good name of Aston Villa. Well done to Everton fully deserved their win.
Idk.. we were awful, but served up their two goals on a platter.
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Hope Emery realises he can't do this in the FA Cup.
This.
He did last year so can't see why this season will be any different.
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Awful. First half was bizarre, putting McGinn out of position and having no out ball- why? Two cup games in a week that we've chucked it at the back like that.
Tielemans can't start games it seems. So ponderous and utterly lightweight.
Dreadful opposition and we gift appalling goals. Got exactly what we deserve and the whole evening was a wake up to the club and those that run it that we aren't "there yet".
Losing to a side about on a par with the other woeful dross we've not bothered against in cups of late, in front of one man and his dog, corporate bollocks all over the Holte. Get to fuck.
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Our squad players are still playing in Stevie G mode and our new squad players seem to have adapted to it well.
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Someone in the match thread reminded us that we've lost Mings, Buendia, Moreno, Carlos and Ramsey since the start of the season which is half our outfield team if all selected. I think that should be considered before people start putting the boot into Emery.
I don't think anyone is. More frustration after such a great finish last year. Despite being 6th, we all know, the performances haven't been great so far. early days though. Onwards and upwards. Would rather win the euro trophy than the league cup
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Further proof the second string can’t be trusted/isn’t good enough.
It's still very early in the season but I still don't have much faith in the first string. What I do know is that with our summer purchases, without injuries only Diaby would be in the first XI compared to last season.
I agree about the summer signings. Not a great summer window.
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Someone in the match thread reminded us that we've lost Mings, Buendia, Moreno, Carlos and Ramsey since the start of the season which is half our outfield team if all selected. I think that should be considered before people start putting the boot into Emery.
Surely we all are well aware of that. It still doesn't excuse the selection - or non selection of players tonight and low level of performance of those who were on the pitch. Injuries happen amd they don't excuse poor performances
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Just shit. I thought he wanted to win cups?!
It's an interesting point, there's no doubt he does. But just like everything else seems to be managed in football these days, then so must which cup games are higher priority than others.
I fully expect us to qualify out of the group for the ECL, I think that's considered a higher priority cup (worth more ££). I don't expect a team selection tonight against Zrinjski Mostar next week.
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I wonder if Chambers or Lenglet picked up an injury very last minute? I know they both had poor games last week but surely one of them in the back 4 makes more sense than McGinn?
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Any one know what the attendance was?
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Honestly, it's time to change something fundamental, especially against Brighton.
The shape doesn't work with this set, we're always overrun in midfield with various forwards running off in irrelevant directions. We're so slow in building out from the back, and it really shows - once behind this season we've barely created anything, there's no way through low blocks and no apparent idea of how to find one.
Zaniolo tonight needed to be where Diaby was and vice versa. How do we get them into the game in a meaningful way? They were both bad, but part of that was the shape, and where they were getting the ball.
Cash is just not good enough. His touch isn't secure enough, his technique is slippery, his positioning dodgy. There's a reason Ashley Young played instead of him so much last year, and why Konsa was probably earmarked to go right this year.
Tielemans, literally goodbye.
I'm afraid I think Brighton will slaughter us. I admire Unai for sticking to guns that fire for him more often than not, but in terms of performances it just isn't working. Something needs to change.
We need to pick one of Diaby/Bailey/Zaniolo. Not 2 of them as it leaves us completely unbalanced in midfield. Emery has been messing for some unknown reason with the shape of the team all season, even that nonsense of Kamara dropping into a RCB position when we have the ball is pissing me off. Playing McGinn at left back tonight was rubbish of the highest order. Then not moving him into midfield and instead leaving on likes of Tielemans?
For balance, Emery gave opportunities to the likes of the Donk and Duran tonight in their best positions and they were shocking. Konsa unable to deal with a physical centre forward again.
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Anyone notice it kicking off in the trinity lower in the second half? Looked like that from my armchair.
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Further proof the second string can’t be trusted/isn’t good enough.
It's still very early in the season but I still don't have much faith in the first string. What I do know is that with our summer purchases, without injuries only Diaby would be in the first XI compared to last season.
I agree about the summer signings. Not a great summer window.
On the positive side, look how many Spanish clubs we kept in business for another 12 months. 'Viva el Aston Villa' as they say in Spain. More games like this and we'll be more concerned about keeping our best players. Early days and all that jazz but bloody hell..
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Even if we had somehow won he would have done the same again in the next round.
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Honestly, it's time to change something fundamental, especially against Brighton.
The shape doesn't work with this set, we're always overrun in midfield with various forwards running off in irrelevant directions. We're so slow in building out from the back, and it really shows - once behind this season we've barely created anything, there's no way through low blocks and no apparent idea of how to find one.
Zaniolo tonight needed to be where Diaby was and vice versa. How do we get them into the game in a meaningful way? They were both bad, but part of that was the shape, and where they were getting the ball.
Cash is just not good enough. His touch isn't secure enough, his technique is slippery, his positioning dodgy. There's a reason Ashley Young played instead of him so much last year, and why Konsa was probably earmarked to go right this year.
Tielemans, literally goodbye.
I'm afraid I think Brighton will slaughter us. I admire Unai for sticking to guns that fire for him more often than not, but in terms of performances it just isn't working. Something needs to change.
We need to pick one of Diaby/Bailey/Zaniolo. Not 2 of them as it leaves us completely unbalanced in midfield. Emery has been messing for some unknown reason with the shape of the team all season, even that nonsense of Kamara dropping into a RCB position when we have the ball is pissing me off. Playing McGinn at left back tonight was rubbish of the highest order. Then not moving him into midfield and instead leaving on likes of Tielemans?
So what's the system & personnel there? McGinn, Kamara and Doug in a midfield 3 with Watkins up front, one of Diaby/Zaniolo/Bailey wide and...who else? Donk wide? Olsen? Why not play two of them? There are two wings on a pitch.
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Honestly, it's time to change something fundamental, especially against Brighton.
The shape doesn't work with this set, we're always overrun in midfield with various forwards running off in irrelevant directions. We're so slow in building out from the back, and it really shows - once behind this season we've barely created anything, there's no way through low blocks and no apparent idea of how to find one.
Zaniolo tonight needed to be where Diaby was and vice versa. How do we get them into the game in a meaningful way? They were both bad, but part of that was the shape, and where they were getting the ball.
Cash is just not good enough. His touch isn't secure enough, his technique is slippery, his positioning dodgy. There's a reason Ashley Young played instead of him so much last year, and why Konsa was probably earmarked to go right this year.
Tielemans, literally goodbye.
I'm afraid I think Brighton will slaughter us. I admire Unai for sticking to guns that fire for him more often than not, but in terms of performances it just isn't working. Something needs to change.
We need to pick one of Diaby/Bailey/Zaniolo. Not 2 of them as it leaves us completely unbalanced in midfield. Emery has been messing for some unknown reason with the shape of the team all season, even that nonsense of Kamara dropping into a RCB position when we have the ball is pissing me off. Playing McGinn at left back tonight was rubbish of the highest order. Then not moving him into midfield and instead leaving on likes of Tielemans?
So what's the system & personnel there? McGinn, Kamara and Doug in a midfield 3 with Watkins up front, one of Diaby/Zaniolo/Bailey wide and...who else? Donk wide? Olsen? Why not play two of them? There are two wings on a pitch.
Watkins and Diaby up front. McGinn right, Ramsey left. Luiz and Kamara in midfield.
Zaniolo and Bailey are liabilities in a 3. Really don't think Zaniolo is a good fit for us at all. Cool tattoos and first touch but he cant/won't press from the front.
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Well as long as you've given him a chance, that's all that matters.
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Would love to think the whole club would have a thorough debrief around the shitshow in the build up to the game and the game itself and learn a few lessons. A full VP may well have helped, did the apathy rub off on the players?
Somebody tell me the last time a weakened Villa side put in a good fluid performance?
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Thats the fourth completely inept performance so far this season.
We have only looked good against Everton in the League, and Burnley. The balance of the team isnt right. I think a lot of it is because we dont have a settled back line. We miss Mings organisation and strength, and ramsey's and beunida's industry and guile.
I dont think Ziniolo is being used to his best ability - he needs to be doing his stuff in the final third. To often its in our half. I would be tempted to swap where hes playing with Diaby even if they do it swap for periods throughout the game.
We seem to have a real issue at times keeping the ball, and also changing the pace we move the ball. Two things we didnt have issues with last season. Having Ramsey and Mareno back would be a big help interms of breaking the lines.
Tielemans looks like we have massively overpaid for him. Donk also looks a mess, what happened to Tim?
Im sure it will get sorted, but whenever things go against us we look really, really poor. And whenever we play a "second" team we seem to look really, really, really ppor.
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Tielemens is garbage. He can't cope with being pressed and has no backbone. Complete opposite of Douglas Luiz
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Thats the fourth completely inept performance so far this season.
Worrying.
I think back to when Emery first came in and we looked so dodgy as we tried to play it out from the back. With Mings out and so many new players and combinations of players in, I imagine he's pretty much having to start that coaching off all over again.
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Got to go full strength next Thursday or we're fucked. No messing around
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Chambers last week, Dendoncker tonight , who’ll come up trumps next Thursday?
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Thats the fourth completely inept performance so far this season.
We have only looked good against Everton in the League, and Burnley. The balance of the team isnt right. I think a lot of it is because we dont have a settled back line. We miss Mings organisation and strength, and ramsey's and beunida's industry and guile.
I dont think Ziniolo is being used to his best ability - he needs to be doing his stuff in the final third. To often its in our half. I would be tempted to swap where hes playing with Diaby even if they do it swap for periods throughout the game.
We seem to have a real issue at times keeping the ball, and also changing the pace we move the ball. Two things we didnt have issues with last season. Having Ramsey and Mareno back would be a big help interms of breaking the lines.
Tielemans looks like we have massively overpaid for him. Donk also looks a mess, what happened to Tim?
Im sure it will get sorted, but whenever things go against us we look really, really poor. And whenever we play a "second" team we seem to look really, really, really ppor.
I agree it's concerning just how poor we've looked at times this season. We lost games last season, but they were generally quite tight affairs, and I don't recall too many horror shows. This season we've been absolutely useless for large periods in half the games we've played.
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We still have the hurdle of a decent B&HA team to overcome at the weekend.
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Tielemens is garbage. He can't cope with being pressed and has no backbone. Complete opposite of Douglas Luiz
Probably stuck with him too as he'll be on a hefty salary and nobody will touch him with a bargepole unless he fancies winding his career down in Saudi.
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Thats the fourth completely inept performance so far this season.
Worrying.
I think back to when Emery first came in and we looked so dodgy as we tried to play it out from the back. With Mings out and so many new players and combinations of players in, I imagine he's pretty much having to start that coaching off all over again.
I think thats it - it feels like hes starting again with the backline due to the injuries to Carloe, Mings and Morenro
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Diaby had another poor game too. Something isn't right
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Thats the fourth completely inept performance so far this season.
We have only looked good against Everton in the League, and Burnley. The balance of the team isnt right. I think a lot of it is because we dont have a settled back line. We miss Mings organisation and strength, and ramsey's and beunida's industry and guile.
I dont think Ziniolo is being used to his best ability - he needs to be doing his stuff in the final third. To often its in our half. I would be tempted to swap where hes playing with Diaby even if they do it swap for periods throughout the game.
We seem to have a real issue at times keeping the ball, and also changing the pace we move the ball. Two things we didnt have issues with last season. Having Ramsey and Mareno back would be a big help interms of breaking the lines.
Tielemans looks like we have massively overpaid for him. Donk also looks a mess, what happened to Tim?
Im sure it will get sorted, but whenever things go against us we look really, really poor. And whenever we play a "second" team we seem to look really, really, really ppor.
I agree it's concerning just how poor we've looked at times this season. We lost games last season, but they were generally quite tight affairs, and I don't recall too many horror shows. This season we've been absolutely useless for large periods in half the games we've played.
Agreed - it looks the exact opposite to what we have come to expect. We dont look well coached, and players are panicking
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When you constantly and consistently use 30 passes to progress to the halfway line then you are in a hiding to nothing.
The opposition park the bus and it’s virtually impossible to play through them.
The lack of urgency with this team really fucks me off. Even on 88 minutes we still fuck about playing the backwards and sideways in our own half.
I KNOW it’s the way we play now, but fucking hell, when it’s not working because the opposition have sussed you out, it tedious, laborious and totally ineffective.
Konsa was a one man defence second half. Credit to him.
Tielemans and Dendonker can fuck right off !!
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Diaby had another poor game too. Something isn't right
He's not going to turn it on every game. Players don't. He's been fine and he'll get better.
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Glad I had this cup 4th on the list of "What do we want?" this season. Seems Unai and the players agreed.
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Only saw the first 25 mins (thankfully) and Dendonker was absolute crap. It sounds like Tielemans gave him a good run for his money. It seems our replacements are sub-standard, ie. Chambers, Dendonker, Tielemans, etc and as such we don't really have the depth to our squad that we had planned for.
A disappointing loss and another wake up call...that's like the fourth thus far this season alone and we've only played 13 (?) games.
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I still can't get over playing two midfielders in defence. What on earth was he thinking? McGinn is about as much use as a left back as I am at synchronised swimming.
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They've drawn Burnley next round. Another winnable one we could have embarrassingly lost.
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They've drawn Burnley next round. Another winnable one we could have embarrassingly lost.
The 'Dyche Derby'.
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They've drawn Burnley next round. Another winnable one we could have embarrassingly lost.
Unless Hibs are in the draw, I have got to the point where i have given up caring who we get in a cup match - whoever they are, well find a way to loose.
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When you constantly and consistently use 30 passes to progress to the halfway line then you are in a hiding to nothing.
The opposition park the bus and it’s virtually impossible to play through them.
The lack of urgency with this team really fucks me off. Even on 88 minutes we still fuck about playing the backwards and sideways in our own half.
I KNOW it’s the way we play now, but fucking hell, when it’s not working because the opposition have sussed you out, it tedious, laborious and totally ineffective.
Konsa was a one man defence second half. Credit to him.
Tielemans and Dendonker can fuck right off !!
We still have the hurdle of a decent B&HA team to overcome at the weekend.
Weirdly I think we will be fine against them and win. Curates egg this season.
I still rate Emery as a manager. If I were to profer a reason for our decline in form I'd point at the unsettled defence. We looked abject for a few games last season too, but when he got the defence right he stuck with it all season and we looked solid.
Mings and then Konsa out has not helped at all. I do think if we can keep Konsa Carlos Torres Moreno fit for a good chunk of the season then he will forge them into a formidable unit. Until then we will struggle,
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When we first began watching Unai's style of playing out from the back it was quite a shock but we gradually got used to it despite some really dodgy moments. I'm beginning to wonder if as ever in the Premier League we've been rumbled and other coaches have worked out how to deal with it. Chelsea on Saturday sprung our high line several times and only a combination of poor finishing and top goalkeeping stopped them from punishing us. Everton broke our high line for their second goal tonight. I'm not criticising Emery I'm just a bit concerned that we're going to have to come up with a style of play that leaves us less vulnerable while still keeping the exciting brand of football which has brought us so much joy thus far. I look forward to seeing how our brilliant coach achieves this.
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When we first began watching Unai's style of playing out from the back it was quite a shock but we gradually got used to it despite some really dodgy moments. I'm beginning to wonder if as ever in the Premier League we've been rumbled and other coaches have worked out how to deal with it. Chelsea on Saturday sprung our high line several times and only a combination of poor finishing and top goalkeeping stopped them from punishing us. Everton broke our high line for their second goal tonight. I'm not criticising Emery I'm just a bit concerned that we're going to have to come up with a style of play that leaves us less vulnerable while still keeping the exciting brand of football which has brought us so much joy thus far. I look forward to seeing how our brilliant coach achieves this.
Im not sure if its that, or if were just not playing it as well as last season
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I feel sick. I left Villa park 10 mins into second half shortly after their second. If players and manager can’t be bothered I won’t either.
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I feel sick. I left Villa park 10 mins into second half shortly after their second. If players and manager can’t be bothered I won’t either.
You've always got the FA Cup to look forward to.
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Tielemans was woeful again. He’s had 3 starts and has looked desperate in all of them. He doesn’t look quick enough with or without the ball and was pushed off it so many times.
I thought Emery would take him off at half time and when Digne was warming up I thought that was the swap. I understand Emery is trying to give him time on the pitch but we were playing with 10 men. Kellyman in his brief appearance looked 10x better.
Olsen with the ball at his feet is a disaster. The defence don’t trust him and it went long tonight more times than I’ve seen us do this all season put together. Why he’s still with us is something I just can’t understand.
The big worry is the goals we give away and the chances we give other teams. I’ve no idea what’s happened in midfield but it’s not working and we’ll get a thumping again soon if it’s not put right.
Bailey didn’t fancy it after the first foul against him.
Mcginn at left back needs some explaining.
Bad performances happen but we clearly don’t care about winning a cup. Charging over £30 for this is what’s really got to me. Walking past a closed Holte suite and then advertising the new whatever it’s called money spinner received the half time reaction it deserved.
This is my 50th season and over 40 years as a season ticket holder and I’ve never felt like I was just another “customer” who could be rinsed of his last quid.
Going in to try and grab a quick pint to find the new payment points had gone down didn’t help.
Not once have I ever thought about not renewing my season ticket but tonight as I walked past the Holte suite something clicked.
I’ve paid over 30 quid for something that was free last season and can’t go into somewhere that was a perk of being a loyal supporter.
It’s not just me either, the atmosphere tonight wasn’t good and people genuinely seemed annoyed at what’s going on behind the scenes.
I’ve always thought that our club values its support but I don’t feel like that now. I feel like I’ve been mugged off and although I love the coach we have if they wack another double percentage rise next season it’ll be my last.
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Well that was utter crap. Slow, ponderous lacking in any sort of drive or zip, team selection wrong again. Still mustn’t grumble.
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At least we don’t have to worry about how the club will price the next league cup game for a bit. Every cloud etc
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Not long back, agree with many of the comments, some as ever are an over reaction.
When i saw the team selection i was actually concerned that Dougie and McGinn were playing again, we can’t expect some of the players to play virtually every game, so i have no problem with Emery rotating. It was weird playing McGinn at left back and another poster said at half time, taking off Tielemans and putting McGinn wide midfield with Digne behind him, would seem to make more sense.
I thought Torres was good to be honest and Bailey looked good before he got injured, he looked far more of a threat than Zanioloa who just kept running into their players.
It might of been Ads who mentioned about the Holte End and those comments were spot on. There was both a terrible lack of atmosphere, but also whilst i know it was a frustratingly shit performance, there was lots of ranting at the players around by me from fairly early on and it felt like lots of people there weren’t used to how we pass the ball around. Like I say i know it was a bad evening, but the club really have fucked up by disenfranchising lots of their core Holte End support tonight, that could of helped to raise the players game.
They didn’t announce the attendance either. Total fuck up.
Lastly Emery is not above criticism, but at the moment he’s still pretty much above it for me.
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At least we don’t have to worry about how the club will price the next league cup game for a bit. Every cloud etc
I blame the tight sods who didn’t go to the game for the defeat. A full ground would have roared us on to victory!
….probably not with that team set up.
….people can only afford so many games.
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They didn’t announce the attendance either. Total fuck up.
Just been on Whoscored, every other game from tonight has the attendance on there, but not Villa. Are they embarrassed, or what?
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Utter dog shit from start to finish - are we serious about winning a trophy any more?
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Doesn't matter who you play or how you play, if you gift soft goals to any team you'll always struggle & we seem to be making a habit of it.
From the new year onwards, the only goals we conceded the opposition earned them. Our defending this season has been attroctious & needs sorting quickly.
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They didn’t announce the attendance either. Total fuck up.
Just been on Whoscored, every other game from tonight has the attendance on there, but not Villa. Are they embarrassed, or what?
They just have to be. There were swathes of empty seats round me in the lower holte. 25k maybe?? Massive fuck up
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I'm a ST holder and glad I didn't go, mainly through the removal of the free cup ticket for the first home cup tie and then charging steep prices. Also, I knew several players would be rested. The same mentality was adopted for the Stevenage FA cup tie last year and look how that unfolded!!
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Attendance not even available on the EFL website (as at 11.22pm Wed)
https://www.efl.com/match-centre/g2407903
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Losing to a team like that, when you gift them the goals is bad enough without putting in an appalling performance as well.
I wonder if the Manager has different approach to Cup games? Everything was so slow and half arsed right down to the ponderous way we made the sub for Bailey.
I'm not enjoying my visits to Villa Park either, I don't feel part of the Club anymore because I don't earn enough money. The Holte now has closed doors and areas where I am no longer welcome.
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Another ST holder here who shoved 2 fingers up to the clubs greed tonight. Fully vindicated with that shit show of a performance and that constant advertising on the hoardings of Lower Grounds sums up the people running the commercial side of things . They will lose the crowd.
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Had about three emails this week asking me if I definitely didn't want my usual tickets. Even got a "well, tickets for future League Cup games will be awarded based on attendance at this game" empty threats, which isn't a good look for them now.
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The guy doing BBCs livetext even pointed out how many empty seats there were when talking about how flat the game was.
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I blame the sweaty shirts. F**k Castore and the Coca Cola cup.
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Wonder if Heck is now thinking oh it should have been free to ST holders and £15 adults £5 kids lets sell the place out and get the place rocking !
They have so mis-read the room it's unbelievable
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Very poor performance with the only urgency coming for 5 minutes after we scored. Only player who looked like creating anything was Torres, who was easily out best player, thought Konsa was decent too.
Doug tried to dictate the play but he was poor, compared to his usual standards and gave the ball away needlessly a few times.
Tielemans needs a rocket up his arse, he’s not as good as he thinks he is but it’s the way he comes across as well that’s grating.
Someone mentioned about Cash, he’s not good enough to be our outlet on the right, if he’s coming from deep it’s less of a problem but I don’t like Kamara filling in as an auxiliary right back, Gerrard was panned for similar and I don’t think it’s good now either.
We need to get our most dangerous players in positions to hurt the opposition. Diaby playing centrally gets crowded out too easily.
Having said all that we gave away 2 cheap goals, Olsen made a decent save from DCL but don’t think we tested Pickford.
Silver lining was that there wasn’t as much traffic on the way back. Hopefully we’ll turn up for the next cup game as it’s must win.
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An insipid display, too casual by half and this wasn’t a team of reserves we had out. Worse; Everton wanted it more. There’s no excuse for being outfought like that. Emery is supposed to be the cup king but so far his attempts in the cup have been poor.
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Painful, like sitting in a dentist chair for an hour and half
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Painful, like sitting in a dentist chair for an hour and half
Was the chair padded
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I’m yet another season ticket holder that didn’t bother with this match. At this moment in time, the Club are taking the piss and are alienating a lot of true supporters. They just aren’t getting anything right just now.
As regards the playing side of things, for a master tactician, Emery is making some real basic errors. In particular, Chambers last week and playing McGinn at left back tonight. I’m in the camp that says start your best eleven, try and grab a couple of goals then make substitutions.
Also, the build up play is sooo slow. Gives the opposition time to get into their defensive shape plus, a sloppy pass and you’re virtually giving your opponents a goal and, we’re not very good coming from behind. In addition, considering that Emery keeps saying that he wants to win some silverware, I don’t think we’ve won a match yet in the domestic cups.
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For anyone with a masochistic streak
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Painful, like sitting in a dentist chair for an hour and half
Was the chair padded
No leg room either
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We are really missing the guile of Buendia.
Play is just far too slow. We just play sideways ,back and forth (Zzzzzzz) for either Digne to pass it backwards or over to Cash to not get a cross in (... and he then passes backwards too)
Awful!
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More worried he didn't rest McGinn, needed to keep him fresh for Brighton.
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Was at the game earlier and it was just a poor night all round really. Olsen yet again at fault in the build up to the first goal and then Tielemans with a dreadful mistake for the second. We just aren't going to win many games with Olsen in goal and goodness knows why it wasn't addressed in the summer. If the goalkeeper is going to be a big part of you playing out from the back then you need keepers who are comfortable doing it.
It was just a lethargic, sloppy performance all round. Goodness knows how many times Luiz, Tielemans and Kamara gave the ball away between them. I don't think Tielemans isn't trying, it's just that he looks completely devoud of form and confidence. Without Mings, there doesn't seem to be any leadership out there and it all looks a bit aimless really. I still find a bit odd that Ashley Young wasn't given another year and then wasn't replaced. We desperately need Ramsey back as we haven't been able to find anyone who can play that role he played so well last year. We just look unbalanced without him.
It is a bit of a concern that those who are not in the current starting XI are performing poorly when they are stepping in given the number of games we have got coming up.
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We were a fucking shambles at the back. Cash and Konsa like the chuckle brothers.
Bailey was useless, but no surprise there.
Mcginn at left back, deary me.
Just wank, Villa.
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For all the criticism of Olsen (and he deserves a lot) the save from the McGinn volley following the tackle by Cash on Konsa was a total farce saving moment.
We were poor from front to back but special mention goes to the bloke who whinged he wasn’t getting enough game time. Tielemans, leaving aside the hospital pass for their second, was weak in possession and gave the ball away far too much and didn’t scrap enough. I have no idea why he wasn’t substituted at half time to move McGinn into that role.
I never thought I’d say this, but we looked quite lively before Bailey went off …
A pretty poor night in B6 all round.
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I too think the Konsa bashing is uncalled for, he did OK, as did Torres I thought. One thing that struck me was the leadership. When Everton were rolling around and taking time, no one was in the ref's ear complaining., resulting in 5 mins added, it could have been 10.
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I'm convinced McGinn is carrying an injury at the moment. He has last the spark he had last season and is often the first player to be hooked.
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Just so lacklustre. The players hardly broke a sweat, so at least the shirts didn't look so shit.
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I too think the Konsa bashing is uncalled for, he did OK, as did Torres I thought. One thing that struck me was the leadership. When Everton were rolling around and taking time, no one was in the ref's ear complaining., resulting in 5 mins added, it could have been 10.
Agree, Konsa and Torres both played well last night and Torres was really the only one driving us forwards in the last 5-10 mins. Its a total mis reading of the game, slating either of those two.
Moving away from that horrible game last night, the thought going forwards of Pau Torres being able to combine with Ramsey and Moreno down the left is exciting and potentially transformative for us.
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Somebody mentioned it in one of the threads earlier, we moved the ball way too slow. Everton were back in their defensive shape as we passed it around in our own half.
Also I know technically any goal that you conceed is a bad one but fuck me, the last 6 that we have conceded have all come from remarkably shit pieces of defending.
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McGinn didn't have much of a rest in the summer because he was playing for Scotland until mid-June so maybe that has something to do with his apparent lethargy.
As for Tielemans he is beginning to look like a Sasa Curcic-type signing. His attempted pass to Ezri Konsa which led to the second Everton goal had shades of Steve Hodge about it.
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Was at the game earlier and it was just a poor night all round really. Olsen yet again at fault in the build up to the first goal and then Tielemans with a dreadful mistake for the second. We just aren't going to win many games with Olsen in goal and goodness knows why it wasn't addressed in the summer. If the goalkeeper is going to be a big part of you playing out from the back then you need keepers who are comfortable doing it.
It was just a lethargic, sloppy performance all round. Goodness knows how many times Luiz, Tielemans and Kamara gave the ball away between them. I don't think Tielemans isn't trying, it's just that he looks completely devoud of form and confidence. Without Mings, there doesn't seem to be any leadership out there and it all looks a bit aimless really. I still find a bit odd that Ashley Young wasn't given another year and then wasn't replaced. We desperately need Ramsey back as we haven't been able to find anyone who can play that role he played so well last year. We just look unbalanced without him.
It is a bit of a concern that those who are not in the current starting XI are performing poorly when they are stepping in given the number of games we have got coming up.
The thing is with Tielemans is he wasn't always a starter for Leicester and I recall him being brought on against us a few times and being a big problem. It could be he's unfit it could be he's spat his dummy out because he was expecting to be a regular starter for us.
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Somebody mentioned it in one of the threads earlier, we moved the ball way too slow. Everton were back in their defensive shape as we passed it around in our own half.
Also I know technically any goal that you conceed is a bad one but fuck me, the last 6 that we have conceded have all come from remarkably shit pieces of defending.
I was challenged because I pointed out that despite beating Palace 3-1 in the end they could easily of scored 1 or 2 more before Duran scored his worldie. It's worrying how easily our defensive line is getting breached at times. Something needs to change. We have a top manager who's well capable of doing this and I'm sure when he gets the injured players back he will do just that but for now I think we need to buckle up for a bumpy ride.
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Mings is the cornerstone - both as a leader and physical presence. I hope Carlos can come in and take that responsibility - not sure who I'd drop though.
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Mings is the cornerstone - both as a leader and physical presence. I hope Carlos can come in and take that responsibility - not sure who I'd drop though.
Cash. Konsa right, shuffling over when Moreno goes up. I know people would say the Konsa's been our best outright defender of the season, but Cash has just not been up to snuff and it's about the team.
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When we have the ball and start passing it around the back and moving up the pitch, opposition teams seem happy to keep their defensive shape and keep moving back, as Everton did.
This idea that we are trying to coax teams out of shape and find spaces in behind doesn't play out at all.
All that seems to happen is we play a high line, squash all the play into the opposition final third and they just keep defending until we make a mistake, and then they try and break the offside trap.
It worked against Chelsea (maybe because Emi was excellent in goal), but one mis-placed pass and Calvert Lewin showed how we can be punished. Liverpool and Newcastle both exploited this style of play too.
Ironically we would be set up great against that style of play, Diaby, Bailey, Watkins, Ramsey all playing off the shoulder of a defender waiting for a ball in to space to run on to.
I'm sure opposition teams have watched videos of how we play and identified we make too many mistakes.
Another inglorious cup exit.
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have they released the attendance figure yet or is that being swept under the carpet
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Somebody mentioned it in one of the threads earlier, we moved the ball way too slow. Everton were back in their defensive shape as we passed it around in our own half.
Also I know technically any goal that you conceed is a bad one but fuck me, the last 6 that we have conceded have all come from remarkably shit pieces of defending.
I was challenged because I pointed out that despite beating Palace 3-1 in the end they could easily of scored 1 or 2 more before Duran scored his worldie. It's worrying how easily our defensive line is getting breached at times. Something needs to change. We have a top manager who's well capable of doing this and I'm sure when he gets the injured players back he will do just that but for now I think we need to buckle up for a bumpy ride.
This is a worry. Defensively, which includes the midfield, we are all over the place. The goals we’ve conceded lately have been really bad and it could’ve been different at Chelsea if they had someone worth calling a goal scorer.
Going forward, we score nearly every game but that defence needs sorting and if we get that right we’ll be a seriously good team.
Personally I think the midfield could be the issue as Konsa is stepping up as a leader now Mings isn’t there and Torres getting better. A win on Saturday and we’ll forget this but it’s going to take a performance of the season to get it.
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have they released the attendance figure yet or is that being swept under the carpet
It was probably still higher than a lot of the clubs average whose fans have been on about it relentlessly this morning.
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Bailey bought down again by the mystery sniper from the grassy knoll. He is truly a man of glass.
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Bailey bought down again by the mystery sniper from the grassy knoll. He is truly a man of glass.
He was holding his hamstring area apparently. Why would he feign injury?
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Not that it's a fountain of all knowledge, but the Fantasy Football site has Bailey listed as a muscle injury with 50% chance of playing this weekend.
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Bailey bought down again by the mystery sniper from the grassy knoll. He is truly a man of glass.
He was holding his hamstring area apparently. Why would he feign injury?
I think he is pointing out that he is injury-prone, rather than being a Ferris Bueller.
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Bailey bought down again by the mystery sniper from the grassy knoll. He is truly a man of glass.
He was holding his hamstring area apparently. Why would he feign injury?
Are you suggesting JFK faked it?
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Anyway,it's the overpass not the grassy knoll.
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Woke up at 430am to watch this. My 3 year old woke up vomiting around the 30 minute mark, so missed the middle part of the match, thankfully.
Mcginn at left back was a strange one… I guess it’s worth trying something out of box occasionally, but that experiment can be chalked down as a failure.
For all the criticism Tielemans is (deservedly) copping, I thought the donk was worse.
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Not that it's a fountain of all knowledge, but the Fantasy Football site has Bailey listed as a muscle injury with 50% chance of playing this weekend.
It's no massive loss. I wouldn't actually care if I never saw him play for us again. The fucking weakling
I've gone right off Leon this season. He's a lazy fucker.
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Anyway,it's the overpass not the grassy knoll.
According to Oliver Stones brilliant documentary there were two snipers. One on the grassy knoll and one in a storm drain. Not sure how that's going to help out with Villa's defensive issues though tbh.
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Anyway,it's the overpass not the grassy knoll.
According to Oliver Stones brilliant documentary there were two snipers. One on the grassy knoll and one in a storm drain. Not sure how that's going to help out with Villa's defensive issues though tbh.
😂
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Mcginn at left back was a strange one… I guess it’s worth trying something out of box occasionally, but that experiment can be chalked down as a failure.
I'm still curious as to why it happened though. I know Chambers and Lenglet didn't cover themselves in glory in Warsaw but using one of them and moving Pau to LB, or play 3 at the back, there's multiple "experiments" that make more sense than McGinn, who hasn't been playing well most of the season, playing at LB!
Unless Moreno is crocked again and will be out for months, I see no reason for the McGinn experiment. Digne needed a rest, but so does McGinn. Very strange situation, and hard to believe that's the formation Emery was planning all along.
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Not that it's a fountain of all knowledge, but the Fantasy Football site has Bailey listed as a muscle injury with 50% chance of playing this weekend.
It's no massive loss. I wouldn't actually care if I never saw him play for us again. The fucking weakling
I've gone right off Leon this season. He's a lazy fucker.
I was never keen from day 1. Goes down so easily and then stays down. Don't recall Tony Morley not being able to take a tackle and he wasn't the bravest. Different times I guess
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I know we have injuries and I'm personally in favour of players being able to play in different positions, but my gut feeling was we were a couple of players short, again, in the transfer window and the evidence I'm seeing so far backs this up.
I was ok with us letting Young go for example, fully expecting to see someone come in to either challenge Cash or take his place, and we're at least one player short up front. Bert I love but he's enigmatic and hardly ever fit, you can't seriously be looking at him as a genuine option in a season where you could be playing 50 odd games, and then Bailey is made of glass too.
And I thought we were short before we then flogged three decent academy players that may have helped resolve some of these issues.
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Oh, and the backup keeper as well. He's pretty much certain to gift if not a goal, then certainly a big chance to the opposition every time he plays, which is not the biggest problem unless you insist on playing him in cup competitions.
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Olsen is the worst keeper ive seen us have in my almost 40 years of life. My under 8 team need less touches of the ball to make a pass
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Liverpool had the same problem for a while with that Alison, think back to the first goal in that pasting we gave them and he did it in several other games for them too.
He's not going to get better with age and not he's not so good and the other general keeper stuff either, we may as well blood one of the younger keepers to see if they're up to it, they couldn't do any worse.
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Liverpool had the same problem for a while with that Alison, think back to the first goal in that pasting we gave them and he did it in several other games for them too.
He's not going to get better with age and not he's not so good and the other general keeper stuff either, we may as well blood one of the younger keepers to see if they're up to it, they couldn't do any worse.
Adrian was in goal when we stuck 7 past them.
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Olsen is the worst keeper ive seen us have in my almost 40 years of life. My under 8 team need less touches of the ball to make a pass
Not the worst maybe but definitely one who least fits in with our style of play. Kiraly was much worse as a keeper as were a couple more.
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Liverpool had the same problem for a while with that Alison, think back to the first goal in that pasting we gave them and he did it in several other games for them too.
He's not going to get better with age and not he's not so good and the other general keeper stuff either, we may as well blood one of the younger keepers to see if they're up to it, they couldn't do any worse.
Adrian was in goal when we stuck 7 past them.
That's who I meant, I'm getting old.
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Olsen is the worst keeper ive seen us have in my almost 40 years of life. My under 8 team need less touches of the ball to make a pass
Stefan Postma, Mark Bunn, Nikola Kalinic three worse keepers.
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Olsen is the worst keeper ive seen us have in my almost 40 years of life. My under 8 team need less touches of the ball to make a pass
Stefan Postma, Mark Bunn, Nikola Kalinic three worse keepers.
I think this clown is worse.
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Con Martin was a better Villa keeper and he played centre back.
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Olsen is the worst keeper ive seen us have in my almost 40 years of life. My under 8 team need less touches of the ball to make a pass
Stefan Postma, Mark Bunn, Nikola Kalinic three worse keepers.
I think this clown is worse.
Than Mark Bunn, really? ok
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Olsen is the worst keeper ive seen us have in my almost 40 years of life. My under 8 team need less touches of the ball to make a pass
Stefan Postma, Mark Bunn, Nikola Kalinic three worse keepers.
I think this clown is worse.
Than Mark Bunn, really? ok
It's hard to judge, Bunn played in our worst ever Premier League team, behind such luminaries as Okore, Lescott and Cissokho.
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The worst thing is being beaten at home by an awful Everton team. As for the cup, I stopped caring when they did. I don’t think any club cares about the domestic cup competitions so why should we??
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I only saw Kallinic live once, getting battered in the cup at home to Swansea, and he went down for a pea-roller like someone chopping down a giant redwood.
That geezer that came in when we chaged owners as well, Moreira was it? Played at Yeovil in the cup, looked like it was the first time he'd worn a pair of gloves, absolutely terrifying, then he saves a penalty.
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For anyone with a masochistic streak
On the goals conceded
- did Torres play Garner onside? Seemed like he was very slow pushing out. I've been advocating for the Donk to be given more game time but he was shocking. Ran towards the ball getting nowhere near it while letting Garner run off the back of him. I'd give Olsen a bit of a pass, near post or not as Garner struck it very cleanly
- keystone cops stuff for the second when we had started the second half well. Obviously pass from Tielemans puts Konsa in trouble but Konsa is equally to blame for me as he hesitated. Either fly into that tackle and take a yellow or step off and get into a race with DCL. Surprised to read people thought Konsa did ok last night, I thought a half fit DCL and their sub bullied him physically. Think we got a very fortunate offside call in our favour near the end that Konsa was lucky to get.
That almost own goal from McGinn would have been possibly the worst goal we conceded since coming back up to the PL. Konsa, Cash, McGinn all abysmal. Just a rabble really in that first half.
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If Konsa commits himself and loses that tackle on the half way line, we're down to ten men. He was put in an impossible position by the pass
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Any goalkeeper at any level can kick the fucking ball upfield in a hurry with some elevation, even this seems beyond Robin.
And even the second, while he's not to blame he's also no impediment to Calvert-Lewin, looked the easiest thing in the world for him. Compare and contrast to Sunday when every Chelsea player is shaking like a shitting dog when they look up and see Emi in front of them.
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Any goalkeeper at any level can kick the fucking ball upfield in a hurry with some elevation, even this seems beyond Robin.
And even the second, while he's not to blame he's also no impediment to Calvert-Lewin, looked the easiest thing in the world for him. Compare and contrast to Sunday when every Chelsea player is shaking like a shitting dog when they look up and see Emi in front of them.
Olsen is not a terrible goalie. He's also not a particularly good one, either. Yes, if he was our number one, we'd ALL be calling for an improvement in the next transfer window. But he's not our number 1. What he suffers from, more than anything, is comparison to our current number one, who is arguably the best goalkeeper in the world right now (certainly in the top three or four). The gap in quality between number 1 and number 2 has probably never been higher.
We didn't lose last night because of Olsen, we lost because we were pretty poor all over the pitch, with a couple of VERY poor outfield performances, and individual errors thrown in.
Also, Everton certainly surprised me by going close to full strength. I was convinced they would be resting players, given they've won only one league game all season. A shit night, a shit performance, and a shit result. I imagine a few of our fringe players are getting analysed/bollocked to within an inch of their lives today.
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He had a big hand in gifting them the first goal with a duff clearance, which as it happens was exactly like one he did at Burnley when he came on there, so it's fair to say he wasn't solely responsible but was significantly so, and it's a recurring theme, he's fucked in each of our last 3 domestic cup defeats.
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Any goalkeeper at any level can kick the fucking ball upfield in a hurry with some elevation, even this seems beyond Robin.
And even the second, while he's not to blame he's also no impediment to Calvert-Lewin, looked the easiest thing in the world for him. Compare and contrast to Sunday when every Chelsea player is shaking like a shitting dog when they look up and see Emi in front of them.
Olsen is not a terrible goalie. He's also not a particularly good one, either. Yes, if he was our number one, we'd ALL be calling for an improvement in the next transfer window. But he's not our number 1. What he suffers from, more than anything, is comparison to our current number one, who is arguably the best goalkeeper in the world right now (certainly in the top three or four). The gap in quality between number 1 and number 2 has probably never been higher.
We didn't lose last night because of Olsen, we lost because we were pretty poor all over the pitch, with a couple of VERY poor outfield performances, and individual errors thrown in.
Also, Everton certainly surprised me by going close to full strength. I was convinced they would be resting players, given they've won only one league game all season. A shit night, a shit performance, and a shit result. I imagine a few of our fringe players are getting analysed/bollocked to within an inch of their lives today.
This.
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I know we have injuries and I'm personally in favour of players being able to play in different positions, but my gut feeling was we were a couple of players short, again, in the transfer window and the evidence I'm seeing so far backs this up.
I was ok with us letting Young go for example, fully expecting to see someone come in to either challenge Cash or take his place, and we're at least one player short up front. Bert I love but he's enigmatic and hardly ever fit, you can't seriously be looking at him as a genuine option in a season where you could be playing 50 odd games, and then Bailey is made of glass too.
And I thought we were short before we then flogged three decent academy players that may have helped resolve some of these issues.
Yes. We needed more but this time I did not expect it having learned repeat lessons. Dave W. has it right when he says it's always the next window that will be the big one.
I also can't help but think we went for Tielemans because he was free, not because he's what we need.
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He had a big hand in gifting them the first goal with a duff clearance, which as it happens was exactly like one he did at Burnley when he came on there, so it's fair to say he wasn't solely responsible but was significantly so, and it's a recurring theme, he's fucked in each of our last 3 domestic cup defeats.
Exactly Lee. You can't underestimate the effect of lack of confidence in a goalie from the rest of the defence. I'm not expecting Olsen to be anywhere close to Martinez in terms of ability, because if he was he'd be first choice somewhere else. I think he's miles away from being good enough to be our reserve keeper though. He's not any good at any one aspect of keeping, and he's especially bad with the ball at his feet, which is a huge problem as it's a massive part of the way we play under Emery.
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IMO, there was no single cause for the result. Rather there was a combination of factors that led to a very flat performance.
1. Firstly, gifting any team, even a poor one, two goals is going to make it a tough game to win.
2. Injuries to key players not only means we are without some of our best players but it limits the options in terms of rotation and different combinations. We currently have two fit/capable CBs (Konsa and Torres) when we thought we would have four (including Mings and Carlos). That affects the spine of the team and what we can do if we want to make changes.
3. Some of our back-up options mean not only a drop-off in ability, but the replacement don't offer the same capability, e.g., Dendonker in CM does not want to accept the ball in tight areas and play round people in the way that Kamara and Dougie do.
4. Though the biggest issue for me last night was the lack of leadership. When we conceded the first and our play was disjointed, it needed one or two to lead by example, to dig a few people out or to encourage them - whichever might be appropriate. I saw some individuals applying themselves but I did not see anyone seeking to forge a more effective team.
I think the leadership of Mings and the energy and dynamism of Ramsey and Bunedia are very significant - more so when we are not playing well.
A good start in games, early goals, and combinations that 'click' are great to see but, inevitably, not always going to happen.
Really good teams have resilience, determination, and the leadership and energy to prevail. As a 'work in progress' we are some way off that - on the evidence of last Thursday and last night. UTV.
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I'm very definitely in the 'Olsens the worst keeper i've ever seen' camp. Nothing personal against him, he does his best but honestly he's a fucking disaster of a keeper. Why we didn't do something there in the summer is beyond me.
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I don't think he's as bad as some make out, and he's done alright behind a proper defence this season, but I doubt we'll see much of Olsen again. If we don't make it out of our group in the conference, Martinez will play FA Cup, I reckon.
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The problem is that our defensive line needs rehearsing. When it's a makeshift line-up they just aren't drilled and aren't confident in doing what they need to do, especially so because they have Olsen behind them.
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I think our defensive problems are more than just Olsen. Having McGinn at left back and, playing the high line when we don’t have a lot of pace in defence doesn’t help much either. Villa are not the only ones though, I’ve already seen plenty of goals given away by other teams this season by trying to play out from the back with some disastrous passing.
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Only seen the 2nd half after we went 2 down and thought we weren't that bad but never looked like we could break them down to get the equaliser. In truth I was pretty nonplussed by the result as we are not strong enough squad wise to be competing on so many fronts especially with our injury situation as it is.
The ticket pricing for this has left a bad taste in the mouth and dented the feel good factor somewhat. What were they thinking? Whether the reduced attendance had any impact on the performance is an unknown but it couldn't have helped.
We have 3 competitions now to focus on. Play our best in form players to get the results required.
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Why did he take McGinn off at half time and not Tielemans??
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Why did he take McGinn off at half time and not Tielemans??
He doesn't look fully fit. In just guessing of course, but maybe he wants him fresher for Brighton. There's no way Tielemans will be starting on Saturday
I hope not
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Unai has said there was a pre-game plan to share minutes but some players he had to play for longer because of the score (presumably Diaby and Luiz). The plan obviously wasn't for Tielemans, Dendoncker and Duran to stink the place out.
I also think we'd have been better off with the shape that was suggested on the teamsheet rather than the McGinn left back experiment. Dendoncker struggled in midfield with the press and may have been better off at centre back for 45 minutes, facing the play and maybe having more passing options. It would have allowed McGinn to have more of an impact on the game further forward too before coming off at half time for Digne and reverting the shape around a bit.
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Why not just play the kids if we are not going to take the competition seriously?
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Why not just play the kids if we are not going to take the competition seriously?
We've none left.
And we were taking it seriously, everyone was just shit, as they have been every other game this season.
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If you look at the Chelsea game, I think they had three one on ones with Martinez. Now the ones I remember were from the sides really, Sterling down our left, Chilwell and Jackson down our right between Konsa and Cash. Martinez makes it look easy as his starting position is so high he has already narrowed the angle when the forward takes his first touch. I'm not expecting a backup keeper to be in Martinez class but we should have a keeper comfortable of coming off his line like that and also able to use his feet. Without that the defenders last night are second guessing themselves.
It beggars belief really ahead of a 50+ game season that we continue to have Olsen, Chambers, Lenglet as backup for key positions who are completely unsuited to the game we want to play. Zaniolo and Tielemans again don't look a good fit either. Aaron Ramsey playing in a left sided role for Burnley against Man United would be a far better bet than Tielemans in covering for his brother and letting us retain some semblance of a shape.
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Why not just play the kids if we are not going to take the competition seriously?
I think people are confusing "not taking it seriously" with "the players played like shit".
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I'm very definitely in the 'Olsens the worst keeper i've ever seen' camp. Nothing personal against him, he does his best but honestly he's a fucking disaster of a keeper. Why we didn't do something there in the summer is beyond me.
I’ve got to agree. He struggles with his passing and kicking and the defence have absolutely no confidence in him at all. It was chaos at times last night and I know we’ve not been that good defensively this season but he makes things worse.
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I'm very definitely in the 'Olsens the worst keeper i've ever seen' camp. Nothing personal against him, he does his best but honestly he's a fucking disaster of a keeper. Why we didn't do something there in the summer is beyond me.
I’ve got to agree. He struggles with his passing and kicking and the defence have absolutely no confidence in him at all. It was chaos at times last night and I know we’ve not been that good defensively this season but he makes things worse.
I think Olsen is one of if not the worst keeper in my time. I also don’t think he was to blame last night. Poor kick from a really shit back pass for the first goal, but there was a couple of mins and a whole phase of play before the shot on goal.
I think there is conflation with last nights result and summer recruitment. Other than Digne, Watkins and Kamara and Martinez, we were largely playing our first team, taking into account injuries, which are more problematic in my view than the summer recruitment.
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Unai has said there was a pre-game plan to share minutes but some players he had to play for longer because of the score (presumably Diaby and Luiz). The plan obviously wasn't for Tielemans, Dendoncker and Duran to stink the place out.
I also think we'd have been better off with the shape that was suggested on the teamsheet rather than the McGinn left back experiment. Dendoncker struggled in midfield with the press and may have been better off at centre back for 45 minutes, facing the play and maybe having more passing options. It would have allowed McGinn to have more of an impact on the game further forward too before coming off at half time for Digne and reverting the shape around a bit.
If you think Donk was shit in midfield, one sure-fire way of making him shitter would have been to play him out of position in defence against DCL and where he is expected to play out from the back against an energetic high press.
If you're going to bodge, you'd expect McGinn to be the more capable of the two in adapting. An alternative would have been Chambers at right back and moving Cash over, but Chambers blew that idea with his performance in Warsaw.
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I'm very definitely in the 'Olsens the worst keeper i've ever seen' camp. Nothing personal against him, he does his best but honestly he's a fucking disaster of a keeper. Why we didn't do something there in the summer is beyond me.
I’ve got to agree. He struggles with his passing and kicking and the defence have absolutely no confidence in him at all. It was chaos at times last night and I know we’ve not been that good defensively this season but he makes things worse.
I think Olsen is one of if not the worst keeper in my time. I also don’t think he was to blame last night. Poor kick from a really shit back pass for the first goal, but there was a couple of mins and a whole phase of play before the shot on goal.
I think there is conflation with last nights result and summer recruitment. Other than Digne, Watkins and Kamara and Martinez, we were largely playing our first team, taking into account injuries, which are more problematic in my view than the summer recruitment.
It’s very unfair to push everything onto Olsen, I’d agree with that. He just doesn’t fill an already fragile defence with confidence. He panics and kicks it long and we lose possession which is not our game now.
The injuries have had a massive effect on us but we sit 6th so at least have something to work on when a few get back on the pitch. Torres is still adapting to English football and considering that I think he’s shown he’s going to be a player for us.
McGinn just has to play in midfield, he’s our work horse in there and without him last night we looked very weak.
On the plus side I think Digne, after nearly leaving a few weeks ago has stepped up going forward. Defensively he’s suspect but should be getting help from whoever’s in front of him as well.
We’ll be fine but if we hadn’t had those injury setbacks I’d have backed us to be a real threat.
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At least Olsen managed to save SJM's attempt at an OG
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What was the attendance announced as last night by the way ?
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Not announcing the attendance isn't a good look for the club. They fucked up the prices and the attendance reflected that. Suck it it up. They're quick enough to give it the big one about waiting lists etc.
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I had bought my ticket but last minute events meant I could not go. If they ever publish the attendance you can knock one off it. Even listening on WM it sounded crap. Obviously injuries have prevented us from playing a settled defence and rotation in midfield sometimes involves people not playing in their best position but last night's almost bizarre seeming lack of cohesion or determination could almost convince me that UE was not bothered about losing
our place in one midweek competition. I'm still firmly in the UE camp but blimey we've got to up our game on Saturday.
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What was the attendance announced as last night by the way ?
It wasn't announced, but apparently 23,851. Of which just under 5,000 must have been Everton.
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Where has that figure come from?
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What was the attendance announced as last night by the way ?
It wasn't announced, but apparently 23,851. Of which just under 5,000 must have been Everton.
So 18,000 villa fans? If that doesn't sound very loud alarm bells to the clubs hierarchy nothing will. We love our club but we will not get mugged off. The pricing policy right now is a disaster and trying to turn the Holte into a massive corporate/hospitality suite will absolutely backfire. The Holte End has always been the beating heart of the club. During promotion or relegation it stands there supporting the club with sometimes raucous sometimes quiet but always 100% Aston Villa to the core. Lose that and they're in danger of losing a lot more. For gods sake someone please have a word with those people making decisions who seem incapable of reading the room.
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We're the only club that hasn't announced the attendance for this round.
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We're the only club that hasn't announced the attendance for this round.
Indeed. Soccerbase have it as '0'.
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Villa fans to our credit won't be mugged off as easily as the club would like. The new owners have just found it out for the first time.
I remember Doug Ellis pitching the ticket prices too high as well and had to adjust them mid season.
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Villa fans to our credit won't be mugged off as easily as the club would like. The new owners have just found it out for the first time.
I remember Doug Ellis pitching the ticket prices too high as well and had to adjust them mid season.
Another issue is that there are plenty of supporters like me who don't find it easy to get tickets to league games, and cup games like this would be a perfect way for us to get down to VP.
As fair-weather as it may be, each time we are limply dumped out of a cup, the less appetising this becomes.
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Villa fans to our credit won't be mugged off as easily as the club would like. The new owners have just found it out for the first time.
I remember Doug Ellis pitching the ticket prices too high as well and had to adjust them mid season.
Another issue is that there are plenty of supporters like me who don't find it easy to get tickets to league games, and cup games like this would be a perfect way for us to get down to VP.
As fair-weather as it may be, each time we are limply dumped out of a cup, the less appetising this becomes.
Sums up my feelings exactly.
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Am still on holiday and missed the game last night.
Emery has lost all 3 English cup matches.
Not good. Not bloody good enough.
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I wandered into what is usually the away end in the Witton upper.
It's grim. Really small with one little food hatch which must cause massive crushes at half time and no beer available.
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Villa fans to our credit won't be mugged off as easily as the club would like. The new owners have just found it out for the first time.
I remember Doug Ellis pitching the ticket prices too high as well and had to adjust them mid season.
Another issue is that there are plenty of supporters like me who don't find it easy to get tickets to league games, and cup games like this would be a perfect way for us to get down to VP.
As fair-weather as it may be, each time we are limply dumped out of a cup, the less appetising this becomes.
Sums up my feelings exactly.
Mine too. Plus if do get a chance to go I wonder if we actually give a shit about the domestic cups. It’s not end of the world but if we aren’t taking it seriously why bother? Feel very distant from the club at the moment
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Very weird atmosphere in the holte last night, combination of empty seats and regulars not there, and a lot of faces not normally in the area i sit, not singing but moaning and at the end booing a bit.
My son who has been going since the relegation years, actually commented that he really didn’t enjoy the experience last night. He wasn’t talking about the match, he’s seem loads better and loads worse, he was talking about the feel of the holte end.
Like many others Ive been in the holte when its subdued, anxious, angry, half empty in the late 80s, but last night just felt odd. A combination of people just seemingly detached or others just moaning.
Not an excuse for a poor performance, but all that has to rub off on the players.
Massive almighty fuck up by the club. £10 less per person and the place could of been rocking, and with the Everton lot in fine voice, it would be of been a cracking old atmosphere and cup tie.
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Very weird atmosphere in the holte last night, combination of empty seats and regulars not there, and a lot of faces not normally in the area i sit, not singing but moaning and at the end booing a bit.
My son who has been going since the relegation years, actually commented that he really didn’t enjoy the experience last night. He wasn’t talking about the match, he’s seem loads better and loads worse, he was talking about the feel of the holte end.
Like many others Ive been in the holte when its subdued, anxious, angry, half empty in the late 80s, but last night just felt odd. A combination of people just seemingly detached or others just moaning.
Not an excuse for a poor performance, but all that has to rub off on the players.
Massive almighty fuck up by the club. £10 less per person and the place could of been rocking, and with the Everton lot in fine voice, it would be of been a cracking old atmosphere and cup tie.
The question is are the club aware of their pricing cock up and more importantly will they learn from it? £25 for adults and a tenner for U16's would have bought in another 10,000 and the extra volume from the home end may well have spurred the team on or at least woke them up. Not to mention the extra revenues from catering. It's a no brainer.
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Very weird atmosphere in the holte last night, combination of empty seats and regulars not there, and a lot of faces not normally in the area i sit, not singing but moaning and at the end booing a bit.
My son who has been going since the relegation years, actually commented that he really didn’t enjoy the experience last night. He wasn’t talking about the match, he’s seem loads better and loads worse, he was talking about the feel of the holte end.
Like many others Ive been in the holte when its subdued, anxious, angry, half empty in the late 80s, but last night just felt odd. A combination of people just seemingly detached or others just moaning.
Not an excuse for a poor performance, but all that has to rub off on the players.
Massive almighty fuck up by the club. £10 less per person and the place could of been rocking, and with the Everton lot in fine voice, it would be of been a cracking old atmosphere and cup tie.
The question is are the club aware of their pricing cock up and more importantly will they learn from it? £25 for adults and a tenner for U16's would have bought in another 10,000 and the extra volume from the home end may well have spurred the team on or at least woke them up. Not to mention the extra revenues from catering. It's a no brainer.
You’d have to assume that they are and that’s why they’ve not published the attendance figures…which only serves to draw even more attention to it.
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23,000 and change apparently. I think that will have sent a message, that only 19,000 turned up and they managed to lose probably close to 20,000 season ticket holders off the attendance. Fucking morons.
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as soon as it goes wrong on the pitch the owners will start getting a lot of bad attention for some of the fuck-ups.
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The shite atmosphere last night contributed to the result. The players were listless. It was a very passive performance against a side who were woeful. They couldn't get themselves up and there wasn't enough of us to create an atmosphere. The result is on the club and the fucking moron who priced the majority of season ticket holders out.
Some of which will have just come back from Poland, paid for flights and accommodation in Amsterdam, were at the Bridge, shelled out £90 on the European home games, or a combination of the above. Throw in the contempt we've been held in with the abysmal downgrading of the Upper Holte, the total bastardisation of the stand in general with Terrace View and Lower Grounds (which was booed louder at half time than any song was sung during the game) and you've alienated people, driven them away and contributed significantly, as much as McGinn at left back, to getting us knocked out the cup. You clueless, arrogant wankers.
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The way it’s poised right now, I think they’re either going to fess up and correct things or they’re going to double down. I think it’s going to be the latter.
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I’ve seen a number of people confirm that Newcastle charged £15 last night and food and drink were half price, resulting in a grand win for them.
I also heard from an Arsenal mate today that since Wenger started using the league cup to experiment they have charged £10 for adults and £5 for kids. European games included in season tickets too. Seems ludicrously sensible.
I think the pricing sent out a really poor message before the game, which resulted in a very poor attendance and a team unable to motivate themselves and generate any momentum from a lethargic crowd. Throw in a large and boisterous away following and you have an self harming disaster.
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as soon as it goes wrong on the pitch the owners will start getting a lot of bad attention for some of the fuck-ups.
Yes, obviously the league results are glossing over things at the moment, results being better than performances.
It won’t take much of a downturn for the discontent off the pitch to become louder and it’s hard to understand why the feel-good factor at the end of last season so brilliantly generated by Emery and the team is so carelessly being thrown away by the club. It’s nothing less than arrogance and complacency towards the fans.
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Its been said before but it sounds like they're trying to rush things as far as developing the financial side of things goes. I know money should lead to success and then success should lead to more money, but I'm sure there's more reasonable ways to go about it.
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I’ve seen a number of people confirm that Newcastle charged £15 last night and food and drink were half price, resulting in a grand win for them.
I also heard from an Arsenal mate today that since Wenger started using the league cup to experiment they have charged £10 for adults and £5 for kids. European games included in season tickets too. Seems ludicrously sensible.
I think the pricing sent out a really poor message before the game, which resulted in a very poor attendance and a team unable to motivate themselves and generate any momentum from a lethargic crowd. Throw in a large and boisterous away following and you have an self harming disaster.
I watched some of the Newcastle/Man City game and the ground was rocking. It was impressive for a 4th round EFL cup game but now I know that tickets were 15 quid and food was half price I'm even more annoyed with the fools who got things so spectacularly wrong for our game. We've been blown away by the quality of our new owners until now. They've invested fortunes and someone needs to get a grip. I totally understand that the club needs to build revenue but they're not listening to the fans. The Holte End should be sacrosanct.
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The shite atmosphere last night contributed to the result. The players were listless. It was a very passive performance against a side who were woeful. They couldn't get themselves up and there wasn't enough of us to create an atmosphere. The result is on the club and the fucking moron who priced the majority of season ticket holders out.
Some of which will have just come back from Poland, paid for flights and accommodation in Amsterdam, were at the Bridge, shelled out £90 on the European home games, or a combination of the above. Throw in the contempt we've been held in with the abysmal downgrading of the Upper Holte, the total bastardisation of the stand in general with Terrace View and Lower Grounds (which was booed louder at half time than any song was sung during the game) and you've alienated people, driven them away and contributed significantly, as much as McGinn at left back, to getting us knocked out the cup. You clueless, arrogant wankers.
Yeah I picked up on the booing in the Holte when Lower Grounds came on the big screen at ht. Not heard of it before - what is it?
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What bothers me more than anything is not even that Heck and his cronies have been brought into to create as much corporate space as possible, its modern football bla bla etc. its that they literally started with the Holte End. The heartbeat of the stadium, the area of the ground that has literally sucked the ball over the line on so many occasions over the years, the part of the ground that has driven the players forwards with a minute to go.
They have either not done their research properly on the history of the club, which would be shoddy in the extreme. Or they know what the Holte is and means and don’t give a shit. A third more sinister option would be they are purposely trying to break the Holte from what it has always been.
Whichever one it is or a combination of all of them, last night was the first glimpse of that brave new world, and it was a fucking souless pit of nothingness.
Im absolutely raging the more I think about it. And if the lower grounds raised a boo from that cauldron of disengagement last night, I expect it to be very loud and obvious if they try that again at half time on Saturday.
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I looked through the windows of the Holte Suite and they’ve got a lot to do to get it ready.
Thing is, nobody would give a shit if they hired the Majestic and made it corporate, or the Aston Hotel or the Academy. They’ve started in the worst possible place.
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The shite atmosphere last night contributed to the result. The players were listless. It was a very passive performance against a side who were woeful. They couldn't get themselves up and there wasn't enough of us to create an atmosphere. The result is on the club and the fucking moron who priced the majority of season ticket holders out.
Some of which will have just come back from Poland, paid for flights and accommodation in Amsterdam, were at the Bridge, shelled out £90 on the European home games, or a combination of the above. Throw in the contempt we've been held in with the abysmal downgrading of the Upper Holte, the total bastardisation of the stand in general with Terrace View and Lower Grounds (which was booed louder at half time than any song was sung during the game) and you've alienated people, driven them away and contributed significantly, as much as McGinn at left back, to getting us knocked out the cup. You clueless, arrogant wankers.
Very well said, and a new Premium Experience, "The Lower Grounds" is coming on Saturday. There, you will be able to purchase Momma's Hot Dogs at less than extortionate prices.
https://www.avfc.co.uk/premium
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I looked through the windows of the Holte Suite and they’ve got a lot to do to get it ready.
Thing is, nobody would give a shit if they hired the Majestic and made it corporate, or the Aston Hotel or the Academy. They’ve started in the worst possible place.
I can just picture you there, hands to your eyes, peering through, until someone shouts "oi!" and you run off.
It's not a good look, Perce 😉
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I looked through the windows of the Holte Suite and they’ve got a lot to do to get it ready.
Thing is, nobody would give a shit if they hired the Majestic and made it corporate, or the Aston Hotel or the Academy. They’ve started in the worst possible place.
I can just picture you there, hands to your eyes, peering through, until someone shouts "oi!" and you run off.
It's not a good look, Perce 😉
Haha, it was just a glance “As I Walked up to the Steps of the Holte End”. Full lyrics available on request.
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Well we’ve had our usual five year stable period time for the politics of the people in charge to kick in. Not a Fcukin clue this lot. Trying to increase revenue and in so doing losing 19k off the gate. Great business.
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Well we’ve had our usual five year stable period time for the politics of the people in charge to kick in. Not a Fcukin clue this lot. Trying to increase revenue and in so doing losing 19k off the gate. Great business.
They'll see it as 24,000 paying ~£36 provided more money than 41,000 paying ~£15. Heck knows exactly what he's doing.
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It's a shame the next round of League Cup games will net us precisely nowt.
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A third more sinister option would be they are purposely trying to break the Holte from what it has always been.
To facilitate a move to a new stadium.
Where everyone will get a drink quickly and piss it away in a pristine convenience.
Everyone's a winner baby.
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A third more sinister option would be they are purposely trying to break the Holte from what it has always been.
To facilitate a move to a new stadium.
Where everyone will get a drink quickly and piss it away in a pristine convenience.
Everyone's a winner baby.
yeah and the road links will be great as it will be next to Resorts World and the M42
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A third more sinister option would be they are purposely trying to break the Holte from what it has always been.
To facilitate a move to a new stadium.
Where everyone will get a drink quickly and piss it away in a pristine convenience.
Everyone's a winner baby.
yeah and the road links will be great as it will be next to Resorts World and the M42
I know it's half in jest but the road links around there are an absolute fucking disaster, traversing the M42 and any time or indeed any day is a joke. You could have a zombie apocolypse wipe out 95% of the population and they'd still have two lanes closed and 40 mph limits up that appear to be gaslighting you as that kind of speed can only be dreamt of.