Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: not3bad on September 26, 2023, 11:01:29 PM
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Aston Villa players have reportedly told the club hierarchy that they are unhappy with this season's wet-look shirts, which they claim are having an affect on performances.
As per the Telegraph, manager Unai Emery is aware of the issue, with the club now working with kit manufacturer Castore to try to find a speedy resolution.
Like most Premier League clubs Villa launched a new home, away and third kit this term, but supporters have have noticed the shirts are quickly becoming wet through, while perspiration sees it cling to players during games.
And the Telegraph has alleged that this has prompted players to complain, claiming it is having an impact on performances. Meanwhile they have told members of the Villa bosses that the shirts become uncomfortable and heavy.
The problem has been particularly obvious on the home shirts, which quickly turn much darker that their original claret during games. However, players have reportedly claimed the white away kit is just as bad.
Villa are two years into their "multi-year deal" with Castore and it remains to be seen whether or not the issue could affect that deal.
Indeed, Newcastle triggered an exit clause to free themselves of a contract with Castore that had been due to run to 2027, so they can switch to Adidas from the start of next season.
Speaking to Telegraph Sport, a source close to a Villa player, said: “The players are having to play in soaking wet t-shirts and it is a problem that needs to be solved. It cannot go on all season. The players look like they’ve jumped in a swimming pool after about 10 minutes.”
Despite the complaints, Villa have won four of their opening six Premier League games.
Meanwhile, the issue will not impact replica shirts bought by fans, meaning the club will not face the possibility of having to recall kits or issue replacements to the public.
SPORTbible have approached Castore for comment on the matter.
https://www.sportbible.com/football/football-news/aston-villa/aston-villa-kit-castore-sweat-unai-emery-819606-20230926
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An anonymous tip-off, known only by the name 'Balum Bambers' was especially vociferous on the topic.
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Those Shirts are absolutely pathetic. Only Villa could end up with tops looking like shammy leathers after a car wash
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And so the awful truth we all feared is confirmed.
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Dan Bardell called this after the first game!
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Dan Bardell called this after the first game!
Who's he ?
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If only there were already a thread about this.
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I really hope we also have an exit clause that can be triggered. We obviously won’t do that if we are penalised financially, or don’t have a better offer on the table. Also, Newcastle still have Castore this season, so presumably we’re stuck with them next season regardless. I’m not tempted to buy any merch until we have a better manufacturer.
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Chelsea are set to receive approval from the Premier League for Infinite Athlete to become their new shirt sponsor. The Stamford Bridge club have been waiting for the deal, which is understood to be worth around £40m a year, to be given the green light.
£40m per year?!! - we are so far behind the commercial big-hitters.
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It feels like there's a hierarchy. Other clubs (Newcastle at present, Wolves and Sevilla etc) have Castore and don't seem to have this issue.
Yet we've been palmed off with any old shit.
Or maybe those other clubs don't have Fanatics sewing together bin bags for them.
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Why won't the fans replica shirts be impacted? Are they saying we don't run around and sweat? Are we not men?
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Why won't the fans replica shirts be impacted? Are they saying we don't run around and sweat? Are we not men?
I think because the replica shirts for fans are made by fanatics on license whereas the player shirts will come from Castore directly. So by the sound of it the replicas are actually better quality this season.
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Why won't the fans replica shirts be impacted? Are they saying we don't run around and sweat? Are we not men?
I think because the replica shirts for fans are made by fanatics on license whereas the player shirts will come from Castore directly. So by the sound of it the replicas are actually better quality this season.
They're exactly the same. My mate got a player issue one in a charity auction a couple of weeks ago, and it's identical to the one he bought for himself online.
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I really hope we also have an exit clause that can be triggered. We obviously won’t do that if we are penalised financially, or don’t have a better offer on the table. Also, Newcastle still have Castore this season, so presumably we’re stuck with them next season regardless. I’m not tempted to buy any merch until we have a better manufacturer.
Producing a not fit for purpose product gives the Club enormous leverage. Its a question of if they choose to use it. But it is pathetic that something as fundamental as the Kit seems beyond the club to get right.
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When you're covered in sweat
And your legs feel like lead
That's Castore
Nicked, I admit.
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The timelines for producing kits is very long, next season's kits will already be agreed and in the works, so even if we ditch Castore I presume we'll still have their shirts next season.
As for replacing this season's players kits, Rob Warner (kit designer and Villa fan) said it would be very difficult to even do that this season let alone within a few weeks, although I suspect Castore are under huge pressure as it must be damaging their brand.
It's disappointing Newcastle have beaten us to the punch on Adidas.
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With the amount they get through they probably don't have player-only shirts any more - just use the"pro shirt" that's available in the shop.
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What's so difficult about making 200 shirts in a breathable fabric to the same design for the playing staff to use? Problem solved in the short term surely?
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What's so difficult about making 200 shirts in a breathable fabric to the same design for the playing staff to use? Problem solved in the short term surely?
You would think so but Rob Warner said it was not that simple.
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The real question is are the other team's shirts having the same problem?
I've said repeatedly that it's more visually obvious on ours because of the colour, but there's no reason that it should be only our kits that are actually having the problem. Have Castore shafted us with lower quality material? If they've managed to produce fit for purpose kits for Newcastle, Wolves, Rangers, Rep of Ireland etc. etc. then they should be able to do the same for us.
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What's so difficult about making 200 shirts in a breathable fabric to the same design for the playing staff to use? Problem solved in the short term surely?
Would take about 5 minutes on Alibaba to resolve.
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The women's team have to play in same kit/fabric???
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The women's team have to play in same kit/fabric???
Presumably it would be a different production run as the fit is different, but unless there was a faulty batch used to make the mens, you'd assume it's the same material.
We'll see this weekend if they look as bad.
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What's so difficult about making 200 shirts in a breathable fabric to the same design for the playing staff to use? Problem solved in the short term surely?
You would think so but Rob Warner said it was not that simple.
The simple solutions are usually the best solutions and Rob Warner should inform us as to why it isn't that simple. I get there may be contractual issues involved but if the item isn't fit for it's intended use then they need to sort it and pronto.
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I would guess that changing them now would be an admission that the fabric is faulty/not of the required standard and then they'd possibly face the issue of fans demanding they refund the current kit en masse.
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What's so difficult about making 200 shirts in a breathable fabric to the same design for the playing staff to use? Problem solved in the short term surely?
You would think so but Rob Warner said it was not that simple.
The simple solutions are usually the best solutions and Rob Warner should inform us as to why it isn't that simple. I get there may be contractual issues involved but if the item isn't fit for it's intended use then they need to sort it and pronto.
Rob Warner is just a Villa fan who works in the kit industry, he has nothing to do with our kits. He was just giving a bit of insight into how these things work.
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Perfect get out for the club this. Heck should be all over it and bringing in a different supplier.
It's a shocker that's for sure.
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Perfect get out for the club this. Heck should be all over it and bringing in a different supplier.
It's a shocker that's for sure.
But presumably someone at the club must have signed off a sealed sample
And if the manufacturer delivers in accordance with that sealed sample then it’s down to the club
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Trust Heck and a few others are a bit hot under the collar about this one.
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Perfect get out for the club this. Heck should be all over it and bringing in a different supplier.
It's a shocker that's for sure.
But presumably someone at the club must have signed off a sealed sample
And if the manufacturer delivers in accordance with that sealed sample then it’s down to the club
No it isn't.
If they are not fit for purpose they are not fit for purpose and that is down to the supplier.
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Were the shirts not tried out in full on training sessions before the deal was signed off and if not why not?
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Perfect get out for the club this. Heck should be all over it and bringing in a different supplier.
It's a shocker that's for sure.
But presumably someone at the club must have signed off a sealed sample
And if the manufacturer delivers in accordance with that sealed sample then it’s down to the club
No it isn't.
If they are not fit for purpose they are not fit for purpose and that is down to the supplier.
Absolutely this.
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Were the shirts not tried out in full on training sessions before the deal was signed off and if not why not?
Probably because they've been supplying kits for years and nobody foresaw them deciding to make this seasons out of loft insulation.
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Perfect get out for the club this. Heck should be all over it and bringing in a different supplier.
It's a shocker that's for sure.
But presumably someone at the club must have signed off a sealed sample
And if the manufacturer delivers in accordance with that sealed sample then it’s down to the club
No it isn't.
If they are not fit for purpose they are not fit for purpose and that is down to the supplier.
I think it’s more complicated than that if you read the act
Point 3 below is very subjective
Points 4 and 5 would suggest that it is the club’s fault
Key rights about the goods, under the Act
3. The goods must be of satisfactory quality;
4. The goods must be fit for a particular purpose the consumer has made known
5. The goods should match any description, sample or model by reference to which
they were supplied
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I don't think it's that subjective at all. It's clear they're not of satisfactory quality and it's clear they are not fit for the purpose of elite sport.
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I don't think it's that subjective at all. It's clear they're not of satisfactory quality and it's clear they are not fit for the purpose of elite sport.
Yes they will have bench mark comparisons and no other shirts seem to do this
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I don't think it's that subjective at all. It's clear they're not of satisfactory quality and it's clear they are not fit for the purpose of elite sport.
Yes they will have bench mark comparisons and no other shirts seem to do this
If, as seems possible, this ends in a contractual dispute, then it will not be as clear cut as some here like to think
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I don't think it's that subjective at all. It's clear they're not of satisfactory quality and it's clear they are not fit for the purpose of elite sport.
Yes they will have bench mark comparisons and no other shirts seem to do this
If, as seems possible, this ends in a contractual dispute, then it will not be as clear cut as some here like to think
I would expect the suppliers will want to resolve this to avoid gaining a reputation for providing kit that is unfit for purpose. Otherwise they may find it difficult convincing other clubs to take their brand in a very competitive market.
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Working out in a very wet top because of sweat really impacts my breathing (general gasping of breath!) can only imagine how dire it would be in heat and at an elite level.
Interesting to speculate on the contract (if you say so) but futile, because we cannot see it.
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As a top-level sport, where everything is measured, tracked and reported on, to try and find the incremental advantages, the kit issue seems to be a massive oversight.
A Sunday league team would reject shirts with a performance like that, let alone a £200m turnover premier league team.
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Heck can’t do much if badges/kit deals are already fixed in stone for X years, so he may be looking at ways to re-open deals.
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Well, that Heck chap is happy to hike prices, change the crest, ignore the fans & lie to us with PR garbage, so he should be able to get rid of a supplier that is shit & move to someone decent.
I know Sawiris has a 6% investment in adidas, so hopefully we can get a good deal with them & out this sorry situation in our rear view mirror...
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Re competitive advantage. This is the Rob Warner referred to above (ex-Puma). The Cameroon all in one kit is horrific, but the 2006 WC kits offering a 0.8m aerodynamic advantage over a 30m sprint is crazy when you think about marginal gains. The converse of this is a heavy, sopping wet kit slowing players down.
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To go back a little bit for the discussion around time lines, etc I think there has bene a bit of duff info in here earlier. Getting rid of Castore for next season is definitely possible. We didn't have the badge on the current shirts until the middle of November last year so there would easily be time, especially if we switched and went for a very simple design for this year (which is exactly the right approach for the 150th).
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To go back a little bit for the discussion around time lines, etc I think there has bene a bit of duff info in here earlier. Getting rid of Castore for next season is definitely possible. We didn't have the badge on the current shirts until the middle of November last year so there would easily be time, especially if we switched and went for a very simple design for this year (which is exactly the right approach for the 150th).
I don't think you're right Paul. I'm sure kits are sorted over a year in advance. Adding a changed badge isn't the same as a complete kit redesign and lining up factory time etc.
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To go back a little bit for the discussion around time lines, etc I think there has bene a bit of duff info in here earlier. Getting rid of Castore for next season is definitely possible. We didn't have the badge on the current shirts until the middle of November last year so there would easily be time, especially if we switched and went for a very simple design for this year (which is exactly the right approach for the 150th).
I don't think you're right Paul. I'm sure kits are sorted over a year in advance. Adding a changed badge isn't the same as a complete kit redesign and lining up factory time etc.
I guess we'll see but, in my opinion, if we've decided to terminate the contract I think we'd easily get something lined up for next season.
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To go back a little bit for the discussion around time lines, etc I think there has bene a bit of duff info in here earlier. Getting rid of Castore for next season is definitely possible. We didn't have the badge on the current shirts until the middle of November last year so there would easily be time, especially if we switched and went for a very simple design for this year (which is exactly the right approach for the 150th).
I don't think you're right Paul. I'm sure kits are sorted over a year in advance. Adding a changed badge isn't the same as a complete kit redesign and lining up factory time etc.
I think there are two issues being conflated here. The physical kits worn by the players on match-days, and the kits available for general sale around the world. There is (I would imagine) NOTHING to stop Castore - or another third party - from producing a kit for our players that looks identical to the current one, but is made of a different fabric that doesn't have this issue. Everything else remains the same. Now, whether we are legally precluded from doing that due to our contract with Castore, I don't know - but logistically, it would be very straightforward.
I haven't bought a 'new' kit since 2003-04 when we had the Diadorra/Rover shirt, which behaved much like the current one. I wore it once to play five a side, and then never again for anything even remotely exercise-related. Horrible sticky-when-wet fabric. I hated it. I thought it looked lovely, but it was garbage as a sports top. Since then I've only ever used Villa kits as a social garment, rather than something designed for sports.
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I don't imagine it would be that hard for somebody like Nike or Adidas to add us to a production run somewhere.
Interesting point re the new shirts, apparently the women's team is worried about playing in them, according to a report on the BBC. Obviously soaking wet shirts for women are an even worse proposition than they are for men, for rather obvious reasons.
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Interesting point re the new shirts, apparently the women's team is worried about playing in them, according to a report on the BBC. Obviously soaking wet shirts for women are an even worse proposition than they are for men, for rather obvious reasons.
They wore match day tops when playing in Spain preseason. People concluded it was because of betting sponsorship rules in Spain, but maybe it wasn't.
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Does anyone here have both the replica shirt and the 'pro' replica shirt to see if the fabric is identical? Obviously the pro is about fifty quid more, but I'm interested to know if it's just subtle design differences, or if it's an entirely different product being worn by the players.
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As Rob Warner is being mentioned
https://twitter.com/Real_Rob_Warner/status/1704905309154898230
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To put some context on this I asked Rob Warner back in August if in theory is it possible for the club to demand new player shirts as this batch isn’t fit for purpose.
His answer was - In theory. Whether they could be arranged at short notice is something else. And by short notice I mean this season.
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To go back a little bit for the discussion around time lines, etc I think there has bene a bit of duff info in here earlier. Getting rid of Castore for next season is definitely possible. We didn't have the badge on the current shirts until the middle of November last year so there would easily be time, especially if we switched and went for a very simple design for this year (which is exactly the right approach for the 150th).
I don't think you're right Paul. I'm sure kits are sorted over a year in advance. Adding a changed badge isn't the same as a complete kit redesign and lining up factory time etc.
I guess we'll see but, in my opinion, if we've decided to terminate the contract I think we'd easily get something lined up for next season.
You could be right. Certainly not easily, but I guess if a brand wanted to pull out all the stops -
Normally, next season's first design of the kits would have been presented to the club in March and the development and production phase would be well underway by now. That said, if a new brand takes on a club they can usually speed things up.
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Does anyone here have both the replica shirt and the 'pro' replica shirt to see if the fabric is identical? Obviously the pro is about fifty quid more, but I'm interested to know if it's just subtle design differences, or if it's an entirely different product being worn by the players.
I've got the pro version and my son has the normal version. When we had Kappa, the 'pro' kits were very different. They had a much higher percentage of elastane in them so felt much clingier. Great if you've got a ripped torso like Mings, not so great for mere mortals. But even so, you could really see the difference.
With this year's Castore kits, the only difference I can see is that the pro version has some airholes cut (badly) under the arms for ventilation. Other than that, the material and the cut/fit seem to be exactly the same. And the material in both is truly shit.
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As Rob Warner is being mentioned
https://twitter.com/Real_Rob_Warner/status/1704905309154898230
He's a really nice lad is Rob, good friend of mine.
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Would Premier League rules allow us to change kits during a season?
You see at the final game quote often teams will wear their new kits for the coming season though I can't recall a time where that's been with a new manufacturer.
The club should be working their cocks off to get out of this Castore deal. I knew it would be shit but not this shit.
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As Rob Warner is being mentioned
https://twitter.com/Real_Rob_Warner/status/1704905309154898230
He's a really nice lad is Rob, good friend of mine.
He's just done a pod with Claret and Blue, not seen it yet
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Why won't the fans replica shirts be impacted? Are they saying we don't run around and sweat? Are we not men?
We are Devo
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As well as the wetness issue, how amateur hour did it look to see Emi with a massive sticker covering the sponsor on his shirt in the Warsaw game?
We've known since the end of last season that we were in Europe and gambling sponsors wouldn't be allowed. WTF have we not got a batch of GK tops in all shapes/sizes/colours ready to go?
Castore are an absolute mickey mouse outfit.
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If the premier league would allow it (and why shouldn't they?) why don't we change the bloody shirt and invite them to sue us. The publicity could ruin them and I cannot believe our lawyers would have advised us to enter into a contract with no way out in the event of the product not being fit for purpose.
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If the premier league would allow it (and why shouldn't they?) why don't we change the bloody shirt and invite them to sue us. The publicity could ruin them and I cannot believe our lawyers would have advised us to enter into a contract with no way out in the event of the product not being fit for purpose.
Change them to what? And then someone would have to start refunding the fans.
The short-term solution is a new set of shirts to be made for the players and it seems that depends on how motivated Castore are to do it. RW touches on it in the pod above, but at best possibly 6-8 weeks (manufacture of material etc). To my mind this is a process they should have started in August.
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If the premier league would allow it (and why shouldn't they?) why don't we change the bloody shirt and invite them to sue us. The publicity could ruin them and I cannot believe our lawyers would have advised us to enter into a contract with no way out in the event of the product not being fit for purpose.
Change them to what? And then someone would have to start refunding the fans.
The short-term solution is a new set of shirts to be made for the players and it seems that depends on how motivated Castore are to do it. RW touches on it in the pod above, but at best possibly 6-8 weeks (manufacture of material etc). To my mind this is a process they should have started in August.
In the interim it doesn't have to be the exact material just a material that doesn't hold the sweat. A few weeks at most to sort that.
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We can't let these useless twats anywhere near our 150th.
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With Newcastle finding a work-around to opt out of their contract and now this.. Castore must be scrambling to improve their product, this is terrible press. I doubt our lawyers would want to fight a battle on two fronts against the kit maker and the league. Hopefully, they can create some sort of actual "pro" grade kit and keep the players happy in the meantime. However, at the end of the season, pay the fine and get the hell out of dodge.
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Interesting point re the new shirts, apparently the women's team is worried about playing in them, according to a report on the BBC. Obviously soaking wet shirts for women are an even worse proposition than they are for men, for rather obvious reasons.
They wore match day tops when playing in Spain preseason. People concluded it was because of betting sponsorship rules in Spain, but maybe it wasn't.
In light of this and taking a moment to thibnk about I think its pretty clear that this is exactly why they weren't wearing the shirts.
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Aston Villa women are "dreading" playing on Sunday because of issues with the club's shirts, according to football commentator Jacqui Oatley.
Villa's male players have reportedly told the club the shirts are retaining sweat, making them uncomfortable.
The home claret and blue shirts, made by British sportswear group Castore, are the worst affected and have noticeably changed colour in games.
"This is going to be a big problem," Oatley told BBC Newsbeat.
Aston Villa women are due to wear the kit in their Women's Super League opener against Manchester United on Sunday, which kicks-off at 12:30 BST and is live on BBC Two.
"They've got four TV games coming up. Normally they'd absolutely relish those games and look forward to them," Oatley added.
"But they're actually dreading it because they're really conscious about how they're going to look in this wet, clingy kit - for obvious reasons."
Most of Aston Villa's men's matches so far this season have seen players changing their soaked shirts at half-time.
Oatley said the women's team "absolutely hated" playing in the kit during a pre-season friendly with Chelsea.
"You can imagine, as a female athlete, you have plenty enough to think about just being the best you can be on the football field without thinking about getting sweaty and your kit clinging to you, both from a performance aspect as it is with the men but also from an aesthetic aspect," Oatley said.
"And, as we know, women are different specimens when it comes to our bodies and it can really affect us and how we perform if we're constantly thinking about how we look, or a top might be clinging to our breasts and also our body shapes.
"These are genuine issues for women which you would have thought somebody would have thought through before they released this kit.
"But it seems perhaps that wasn't the case, because they didn't think about it for the men so I'm quite sure they won't have thought about it for the women."
In May 2022, Villa announced they had signed a "landmark multi-year" deal with Castore.
The club are working with Castore to find a solution to the problem after players from the men's team claimed the shirts are weighing them down, according to The Telegraph.
BBC Sport has approached Aston Villa and Castore for comment.
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Why would Castore have used a totally different material to the other cubs they manufacture for?
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And of course on stuff i've seen on social media about the women's team and the shirts there's plenty of "hur hur wet and clingy, i'll watch the games now" type comments, including from our own fans.
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Anyone who thinks there is any course of action which results in the fans getting refunded must be new to football
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Why would Castore have used a totally different material to the other cubs they manufacture for?
We don't know if that's the actual case.
And of course on stuff i've seen on social media about the women's team and the shirts there's plenty of "hur hur wet and clingy, i'll watch the games now" type comments, including from our own fans.
They all wear sports bras so they'll be disappointed if they're hoping for clingy shirts.
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It explains why they were wearing the home matchday claret top in at least one of the preseason games.
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Front page of the BBC site now too. Not great for Castore.
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Currently 6th most read article on the Beeb.
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Why would Castore have used a totally different material to the other cubs they manufacture for?
This is the issue I'd like clarification on first and foremost. Is it a Castore problem, or is it specifically us that got a dud product? I think what the club does about it depends on the answer to that question.
We had Castore last season, didn't we? And the players didn't have this problem. I felt the Newcastle shirts looked very clingy when I had a look specifically for that after we played them. They're also paper thin as seen this past weekend. But I haven't heard any specific complaints about how sweaty they are, or for any of the other teams.
If its a case that we are the only Castore team that has this problem then they are capable of making fit for purpose kits, and should be firing up their machines as we speak to run off an entirely new batch of kits with improved material.
If its a case that all the teams are having the same problem then it's a wider Castore issue and the solution is beyond the knowledge of most of us posting on here.
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Why would Castore have used a totally different material to the other cubs they manufacture for?
This is what I don't get. And presumably easily resolved - just knock out a load of players shirts in the material Newcastle etc are using.
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Cant they just use last seasons kit, and replace the sponsor while it gets fixed?
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Trippier's back looks pretty sweaty/clingy in this pic from last week in Milan.
(https://images.ladbible.com/resize?type=webp&quality=70&width=648&fit=contain&gravity=null&url=https://images.ladbiblegroup.com/v3/assets/blta90d05ad41a54a71/blt78b72f4ef2e9ae88/650a07fbbe66c0e287ed6c4e/GettyImages-1691054286.jpg)
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"Some of the players were complaining about the uniforms, you know it's not a natural fibre..."
(https://i.ibb.co/W5STWJF/natural-fibre.jpg) (https://ibb.co/W5STWJF)
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If you watch the Rob Warner pod linked above you'll get more of an idea of the process. They have to get the material specifically made for them, sometimes it has a coating applied etc. The error could be material design, material supplier, coating etc. Getting claret material for replacements isn't that easy or quick.
Our kits were made in China this season but in Turkey last year - could that be a reason for the difference between clubs?
In short, there's a lot more to it than most of us would think. The solution will have to be a new run of kits which takes time. But the process should have been started in August not now (and I guess may have been?)
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I work in clothing retail. We can design, manufacture and get products in stores within 6 weeks if we REALLY wanted to.
Price sensitivity and a comprehensive critical path/buying cycle to weed out mistakes/QA issues usually preclude that though so we normally run to about 9 month lead time.
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It's not good PR for Castore so you would think this has been given quite a bit of urgency.
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I work in clothing retail. We can design, manufacture and get products in stores within 6 weeks if we REALLY wanted to.
Price sensitivity and a comprehensive critical path/buying cycle to weed out mistakes/QA issues usually preclude that though so we normally run to about 9 month lead time.
I remember reading that Zara could do it in a week to 10 days. As OCD hints, it's a PR nightmare for Castore and can easily snowball with their other clubs. I'd be looking to hire a Crisis Management PR agency if I was them.
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Why would Castore have used a totally different material to the other cubs they manufacture for?
that would put a cat amongst the pigeons
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I really hope we also have an exit clause that can be triggered. We obviously won’t do that if we are penalised financially, or don’t have a better offer on the table. Also, Newcastle still have Castore this season, so presumably we’re stuck with them next season regardless. I’m not tempted to buy any merch until we have a better manufacturer.
Producing a not fit for purpose product gives the Club enormous leverage. Its a question of if they choose to use it. But it is pathetic that something as fundamental as the Kit seems beyond the club to get right.
Should help the club bounce out of the contract and start again with a new kit. Be great to get rid of that vile betting "partner" too.
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We haven't had a kit-astrophe as bad as this since the DWS Investment lads made us look like a herd of cows with the shape of their logo. And chumps in the process. Cow-chumps.
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I really hope we also have an exit clause that can be triggered. We obviously won’t do that if we are penalised financially, or don’t have a better offer on the table. Also, Newcastle still have Castore this season, so presumably we’re stuck with them next season regardless. I’m not tempted to buy any merch until we have a better manufacturer.
Producing a not fit for purpose product gives the Club enormous leverage. Its a question of if they choose to use it. But it is pathetic that something as fundamental as the Kit seems beyond the club to get right.
Should help the club bounce out of the contract and start again with a new kit. Be great to get rid of that vile betting "partner" too.
Yes but can we achieve the same money from a new deal with a new supplier ? bring back Luke
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It's not good PR for Castore so you would think this has been given quite a bit of urgency.
The women's kit having the same problem is even worse for Castore simply because of all the extra connotations that have been pointed out. Given the ongoing Spanish situation and general atmosphere around women's sports at the moment, it feels like them having an issue is more likely to get something done than just the men being sweaty beasts.
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Cant they just use last seasons kit, and replace the sponsor while it gets fixed?
I don't see any reason why they can't in terms of regulations. They obviously won't want to though.
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I don't think it's that subjective at all. It's clear they're not of satisfactory quality and it's clear they are not fit for the purpose of elite sport.
Yes they will have bench mark comparisons and no other shirts seem to do this
If, as seems possible, this ends in a contractual dispute, then it will not be as clear cut as some here like to think
I hope they don’t hire you as a lawyer then.
It’s about as clear as it can be regarding the Sale of Goods act.
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The Sale of Goods Act was replaced in 2015 by the Consumer Rights Act. Companies can't claim under the CRA, it's there to protect individuals.
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The Sale of Goods Act was replaced in 2015 by the Consumer Rights Act. Companies can't claim under the CRA, it's there to protect individuals.
That's it. I'm calling the cops.
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What a complete omnishambles they have made of things. The badge launch was pathetic. Motd shows the old badge on the set with players next to it wearing a shirt with a different badge. The shirt sponsor is very dubious and unpopular. Now this. For the players to have to publicly complain about the kit 6 games into the season is beyond bad. The shirts actually retain sweat and stick to their bodies. Ridiculous. On a brighter note the women's game this weekend is a sellout.
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Cant they just use last seasons kit, and replace the sponsor while it gets fixed?
I don't see any reason why they can't in terms of regulations. They obviously won't want to though.
Isn’t there a bin with extra kit for those who’ve forgotten to bring it today?
Could be useful.
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The Sale of Goods Act was replaced in 2015 by the Consumer Rights Act. Companies can't claim under the CRA, it's there to protect individuals.
Yes it was replaced for consumers,
The Sale of Goods Act 1979
The Sale of Goods Act 1979 implies four terms into any contract for sale regardless of whether such sales are B2B or business to consumer (B2C). These are as follows:
the transferor has good title and has the right to transfer the item sold;
the goods correspond with the description given;
the goods will be of a satisfactory quality and fit for their purpose; and
if a sample is provided, the goods will correspond with this sample.
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I just went back to watch the highlights from the Burnley game where we wore the white shirts - they look fine even at the end of the game. Is it just the colour of the home shirts that makes it look worse, or is there a material difference?
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the shirts are awful - what a waste of money. How the fuck they charge so much for something so shite is crazy
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I just went back to watch the highlights from the Burnley game where we wore the white shirts - they look fine even at the end of the game. Is it just the colour of the home shirts that makes it look worse, or is there a material difference?
According to the report yesterday the players have said the white one is as bad. Makes very little sense for it to be all our kits, but only our kits and no other club has the same problem. If it was just our claret one, or just the white one, you could say a mistake was made somewhere, but if it's all 3 of our kits then you'd have to think there's a bigger problem.
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I just went back to watch the highlights from the Burnley game where we wore the white shirts - they look fine even at the end of the game. Is it just the colour of the home shirts that makes it look worse, or is there a material difference?
According to the report yesterday the players have said the white one is as bad. Makes very little sense for it to be all our kits, but only our kits and no other club has the same problem. If it was just our claret one, or just the white one, you could say a mistake was made somewhere, but if it's all 3 of our kits then you'd have to think there's a bigger problem.
Ok thanks - and yeah agreed. Maybe it just doesn't look as bad when they wear white.
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Someone should send Heck a link for one of those Turkish sites that sell the knock-off kits. Probably better quality than that Castore shite and they might deliver by the weekend if he gets his skates on.
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The publicity is bad for the club. Most outsiders could see the problem on the USA tour when it was very warm out there. Even Villa's women are 'dreading' wearing these kits when their season kicks off soon. I can't see why Newcastle's and Wolves kits aren't having a similar problem? You'd think they're made of the same material albeit in different colours? Unless there's different materials to choose from. Hopefully this nonsense gets sorted quickly....
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sweaty beasts.
I thought that was a typo. Hur hur!
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It is quite annoying that all the places reporting on this story don't seem to be bothered asking the very obvious questions about the other clubs with Castore kits. I'm sure someone working at BBC Sport would have access to someone they could ask a quick question of?
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BBC News - Aston Villa: Women's team 'dreading' WSL opener because of sweat-drenched shirts
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66932993
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I just went back to watch the highlights from the Burnley game where we wore the white shirts - they look fine even at the end of the game. Is it just the colour of the home shirts that makes it look worse, or is there a material difference?
yes seems to be just the home that is the issue. maybe a chemical in the claret dye has changed the wicking properties of the material.
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I just went back to watch the highlights from the Burnley game where we wore the white shirts - they look fine even at the end of the game. Is it just the colour of the home shirts that makes it look worse, or is there a material difference?
yes seems to be just the home that is the issue. maybe a chemical in the claret dye has changed the wicking properties of the material.
I thought wicking was supposed to pull the sweat away from the body, which is what these shirts seem to do extremely well?
It can't just be the home kits. If it was the solution for most games would just be to wear the away or 3rd kit.
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Post-Everton fiasco: "Castore complain that Villa players' performance negatively impacts shirts."
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Can’t we sponsor up those pre match shirts and at least give them a go and see if they’re any better? To be honest I think they’re better than the home shirt anyway.
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There's a story in the Telegraph about Newcastle dumping Castore as their supplier due to a huge amount of complaints from fans about customer service and quality of merchandise, and the club felt that reflected badly on them. It says though that there were no complaints about the kits from players, last year or this year.
It also says Emery was asked about the sweaty shirts after the Everton game and he said he knew nothing about it. Damian Vidagany (Villa director of football operations) said "it's true we have a problem with the shirt, because clearly the material is not absorbing the sweat. We have a situation and the marketing department is dealing with the supplier to try to change it. It is not a question that concerns the manager, it is for the business side."
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If the women’s team play on Sunday in front of a bbc tv audience and they are in these garbage kits and its is so clingy as to be indecent the publicity that it will generate will be huge. Particularly on the back of the Spain thing and the sexualising of women’s footballers.
Just get out last seasons kits and change the sponsor on it with a patch if necessary.
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There's a story in the Telegraph about Newcastle dumping Castore as their supplier due to a huge amount of complaints from fans about customer service and quality of merchandise, and the club felt that reflected badly on them. It says though that there were no complaints about the kits from players, last year or this year.
It also says Emery was asked about the sweaty shirts after the Everton game and he said he knew nothing about it. Damian Vidagany (Villa director of football operations) said "it's true we have a problem with the shirt, because clearly the material is not absorbing the sweat. We have a situation and the marketing department is dealing with the supplier to try to change it. It is not a question that concerns the manager, it is for the business side."
Unai being diplomatic there I'd say. He can see what we see.
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I wouldn't use the word indecent to describe women's bodies but I know what you are getting at.
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There was quite a long piece about the kits on R5 this morning. I'm glad it's being picked up on, hopefully it's causing Castore all sorts of headaches as a company and is accelerating the process of us dumping them.
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My boss, who takes very little interest in football, asked me what this shirt issue was all about just now. It's trending!
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The Sale of Goods Act was replaced in 2015 by the Consumer Rights Act. Companies can't claim under the CRA, it's there to protect individuals.
That's it. I'm calling the cops.
Stop twisting my melons man.
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Castore are not even active on their Twitter account. They couldn't give a shit.
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Once Villa get sorted I hope England cricket dump them. I don't want to be wearing cheap chav wear. It'll be Stone Island or Superdry next.
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There's a story in the Telegraph about Newcastle dumping Castore as their supplier due to a huge amount of complaints from fans about customer service and quality of merchandise, and the club felt that reflected badly on them. It says though that there were no complaints about the kits from players, last year or this year.
It also says Emery was asked about the sweaty shirts after the Everton game and he said he knew nothing about it. Damian Vidagany (Villa director of football operations) said "it's true we have a problem with the shirt, because clearly the material is not absorbing the sweat. We have a situation and the marketing department is dealing with the supplier to try to change it. It is not a question that concerns the manager, it is for the business side."
The sterilisation of PR driven interviews of managers & players makes them utterly pointless & a waste of everybody's time.
It absolutely concerns the manager if it is affecting the players & any words to the contrary are more PR driven lies.
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There's a story in the Telegraph about Newcastle dumping Castore as their supplier due to a huge amount of complaints from fans about customer service and quality of merchandise, and the club felt that reflected badly on them. It says though that there were no complaints about the kits from players, last year or this year.
It also says Emery was asked about the sweaty shirts after the Everton game and he said he knew nothing about it. Damian Vidagany (Villa director of football operations) said "it's true we have a problem with the shirt, because clearly the material is not absorbing the sweat. We have a situation and the marketing department is dealing with the supplier to try to change it. It is not a question that concerns the manager, it is for the business side."
The sterilisation of PR driven interviews of managers & players makes them utterly pointless & a waste of everybody's time.
It absolutely concerns the manager if it is affecting the players & any words to the contrary are more PR driven lies.
I think it's more likely the question was about whether or not it was an issue that was being dealt with, and Emery didn't have an answer. It's obvious to anyone with eyes that the shirts are shit, so I don't think it's a case of Emery trying to tell us he has no idea about the problem at all.
EDIT - The line in the article says " asked whether he supported the players complaints..... Emery responded "I don't know" he said "they (the club) didn't tell me about it."
It was after the game, maybe he just had more important things on his mind and couldn't be arsed answering it.
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If the women’s team play on Sunday in front of a bbc tv audience and they are in these garbage kits and its is so clingy as to be indecent the publicity that it will generate will be huge. Particularly on the back of the Spain thing and the sexualising of women’s footballers.
Just get out last seasons kits and change the sponsor on it with a patch if necessary.
100%. It would be degrading to make the women's side play in those kits IMO. I'd hope they'd be allowed to play in the training shirts, with sponsor applied if necessary, for that game.
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Once Villa get sorted I hope England cricket dump them. I don't want to be wearing cheap chav wear. It'll be Stone Island or Superdry next.
Luke Roper falls into this category. He knocks out some absolutely minging gear, Villa fan or not.
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I had no intention of watching the women's game, but out of curiosity I think I might now.
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I had no intention of watching the women's game, but out of curiosity I think I might now.
Sometimes yellow cards are worth getting.
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My boss, who takes very little interest in football, asked me what this shirt issue was all about just now. It's trending!
A mate of mine mentioned it yesterday too.
Of course, it was in relation to the womens game, but its getting some traction outside of Villa...
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My boss, who takes very little interest in football, asked me what this shirt issue was all about just now. It's trending!
A mate of mine mentioned it yesterday too.
Of course, it was in relation to the womens game, but its getting some traction outside of Villa...
It's vile that the woman are probably the reason it's getting any traction now, but the fact of the matter is that the men have been playing in the shirts for about 6 weeks now, and although being visually obvious, it appears that nothing was being done about it. Did they just not complain, or did nobody care? It seems its the very negative press that could come with the return of the women's league that has resulted in the club actually doing anything about it.
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My boss, who takes very little interest in football, asked me what this shirt issue was all about just now. It's trending!
A mate of mine mentioned it yesterday too.
Of course, it was in relation to the womens game, but its getting some traction outside of Villa...
It's vile that the woman are probably the reason it's getting any traction now, but the fact of the matter is that the men have been playing in the shirts for about 6 weeks now, and although being visually obvious, it appears that nothing was being done about it. Did they just not complain, or did nobody care? It seems its the very negative press that could come with the return of the women's league that has resulted in the club actually doing anything about it.
One of the articles I read said the players complained about it pre-season but said they'd wait to see if it was still an issue when the temperatures dropped, which it seemingly is.
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Torygraph now running a story that we're ending the Castore deal early and might be going with Adidas.
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Torygraph now running a story that we're ending the Castore deal early and might be going with Adidas.
Wonder what "early" means. I assume we're seeing out the season with Castore, otherwise someone would have to refund all the jerseys bought by fans. I'm sure I read that the manufacturer gets to keep the profits from the kit sales though, so maybe that would be Castore's problem.
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Says end of season with Castore looking at short term measures to change.
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Says end of season with Castore looking at short term measures to change.
They should print the sponsor on last year's kit and then piss off.
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Telegraph story about Castore
https://archive.ph/vIUXr
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Telegraph briefed again.
Including anonymous reports on where kits sold.
Almost like a consultancy has run a campaign this week!
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The implications from that article are A) it's only Aston Villa kits that have the problem, and B) it's all 3 kits.
Castore are looking for a short term solution, the most obvious of which would be to wear the away or 3rd kit, if the problem was only with the claret one. So they've seemingly delivered 3 not fit for purpose kits.
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My boss, who takes very little interest in football, asked me what this shirt issue was all about just now. It's trending!
A mate of mine mentioned it yesterday too.
Of course, it was in relation to the womens game, but its getting some traction outside of Villa...
It's vile that the woman are probably the reason it's getting any traction now, but the fact of the matter is that the men have been playing in the shirts for about 6 weeks now, and although being visually obvious, it appears that nothing was being done about it. Did they just not complain, or did nobody care? It seems its the very negative press that could come with the return of the women's league that has resulted in the club actually doing anything about it.
One of the articles I read said the players complained about it pre-season but said they'd wait to see if it was still an issue when the temperatures dropped, which it seemingly is.
Should never have got to this stage. Sure it must have been apparent from the first pre season game or even warm up that the kit was not fit for purpose.
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Torygraph now running a story that we're ending the Castore deal early and might be going with Adidas.
The Adidas bit is just them mentioning speculation. It doesn't come from them.
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Its probably a leap based on Sawiris shares in adidas...
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We're going to have to play skins this weekend.
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Its probably a leap based on Sawiris shares in adidas...
There will of course be questions raised when conflict of interest is brought up
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Its probably a leap based on Sawiris shares in adidas...
There will of course be questions raised when conflict of interest is brought up
It's a private company not a plc . Sawaris can do what he wants
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He’s a minor shareholder at Adidas.
He’s not going to be making business decisions for them either.
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He’s a minor shareholder at Adidas.
He’s not going to be making business decisions for them either.
Think he owns about 3% which while it sounds small would make him a major shareholder not that it has any bearing on us or what kit we choose
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He’s a minor shareholder at Adidas.
He’s not going to be making business decisions for them either.
He's the fourth largest shareholder, with all of the others being Investment Funds.
He seems to be a Board Member too:
Members of the board
Members of the board Title Age Since
Nassef Sawiris Director/Board Member 62 2016
Günter Weigl Director/Board Member 58 2019
Beate Rohrig Director/Board Member 58 2019
Frank Scheiderer Director/Board Member 46 2019
Petra Maria Auerbacher Director/Board Member 54 2019
Bodo Knut Uebber Director/Board Member 64 2019
Jing Ulrich Director/Board Member 56 2019
Kathrin Menges Director/Board Member 59 2014
Jackie Joyner-Kersee Director/Board Member 61 2021
Christian Klein Director/Board Member 43 2020
I daresay, they'd listen to him.
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Jackie Joyner-Kersee! There's a name I haven't heard in a long time.
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We're going to have to play skins this weekend.
They might as well just paint their skins claret and blue. It would look the same as I’d they had the kits on.
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Matt Law reporting Villa and Castore have agreed an early termination of the deal.
What a bunch of fucking jokers Castor are. Two early terminations for being shit 😂
Please get one of the big boys in next.
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Just looking at who has which brand in the league and Umbro have the most with 5 (2 of which are claret and blue), Nike and Adidas both have 4 (with Newcastle added for next year), and then Castore are the next biggest with 3, but between cancelled contracts and relegation, they could have none next season.
Anyway, I don't know how brands make these decisions, but are we that appealing a club to someone who already has big clubs on board?
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One thing I don't get is they do kits for over a dozen clubs and yet it only seems to be ours that have this issue. There's been stuff about the overall quality but nothing like the stuff we're dealing with.
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Just looking at who has which brand in the league and Umbro have the most with 5 (2 of which are claret and blue), Nike and Adidas both have 4 (with Newcastle added for next year), and then Castore are the next biggest with 3, but between cancelled contracts and relegation, they could have none next season.
Anyway, I don't know how brands make these decisions, but are we that appealing a club to someone who already has big clubs on board?
Puma it is then.
Though the standalone lion could look a bit weird with the Puma logo. As a cat fan I support it though.
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One thing I don't get is they do kits for over a dozen clubs and yet it only seems to be ours that have this issue. There's been stuff about the overall quality but nothing like the stuff we're dealing with.
And it's seemingly all 3 kits. So you would have to ask what's been done differently for us, and why? And even from last season.
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Just looking at who has which brand in the league and Umbro have the most with 5 (2 of which are claret and blue), Nike and Adidas both have 4 (with Newcastle added for next year), and then Castore are the next biggest with 3, but between cancelled contracts and relegation, they could have none next season.
Anyway, I don't know how brands make these decisions, but are we that appealing a club to someone who already has big clubs on board?
Puma it is then.
Though the standalone lion could look a bit weird with the Puma logo. As a cat fan I support it though.
We need to get Jaguar as a sponsor then too.
Man City's away kit this season would make a nice Villa away kit, so I'm on board with Puma. They did a decent anniversary shirt for them a few seasons ago too. Hard to mess up plain blue, granted.
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I watched the Roma game tonight , lukaku's kit was drenched to the bone and clinging to him , I get it's warmer out there and he's the size of a garden shed though . The other Roma players kits weren't so bad.
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Didn’t the women’s team play pre-season games in the training top? Seemed odd at the time but makes more sense now.
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Wonder if moving the production from Turkey to China has caused problems with source materials?
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Wonder if moving the production from Turkey to China has caused problems with source materials?
It may have had a Han in it.
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Didn’t the women’s team play pre-season games in the training top? Seemed odd at the time but makes more sense now.
This has been addressed before - that was down to gambling sponsorship not the quality of the shirts.
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Wonder if moving the production from Turkey to China has caused problems with source materials?
It may have had a Han in it.
Wherever they were made, they’re absolutely Minging.
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Didn’t the women’s team play pre-season games in the training top? Seemed odd at the time but makes more sense now.
This has been addressed before - that was down to gambling sponsorship not the quality of the shirts.
No, it was assumed at the time that it was down to the sponsor. In hindsight, it seems it may not have been. One of the women's players actually replied to a comment about that game on Instagram, but then deleted it.
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These shirts are really badly made I hope we get it sorted.
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Apparently Wolves had a similar issue last season but it was dealt with more discreetly.
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Apparently Wolves had a similar issue last season but it was dealt with more discreetly.
I wonder if our request to end the deal was met with resistance, and then as if by magic the media was filled with stories of the poor product and suddenly the resistance was gone.
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Apparently Wolves had a similar issue last season but it was dealt with more discreetly.
I wonder if our request to end the deal was met with resistance, and then as if by magic the media was filled with stories of the poor product and suddenly the resistance was gone.
The story in the Telegraph the other day about Newcastle said they got out of their deal because of poor customer service reflecting badly on the club. There were no complaints from players about the kit though. If that's true and they were able to get out of it that easily, and privately, I don't see why we wouldn't be able to get out of ours without a media campaign.
Although there's also the possibility Newcastle just wanted Adidas and had it lined up before getting out of the Castore deal.
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From MOMS via a friend, "When the standard's not met because the shirts are soaked with sweat, that's Castore!!"
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A mate of mine works for West Indies cricket, and he said they've had all sorts of problems with their Castore kits - so it's not just us. He thinks that behind the scenes, the company is on the brink of collapse.
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Carla Ward's comments about the shirts from her presser
""My focus is making sure the players are focused on the weekend and the one thing I will say is the club have been absolutely superb in these last few days with constant communication with 'how can we help the players, what's going to help them, what will make them feel better?'.
"There's a genuine care from the football club. The players feel that, we feel that, but our focus solely now is on Manchester United."
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A mate of mine works for West Indies cricket, and he said they've had all sorts of problems with their Castore kits - so it's not just us. He thinks that behind the scenes, the company is on the brink of collapse.
I looked at their Accounts and they are not pretty.
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Apparently Wolves had a similar issue last season but it was dealt with more discreetly.
I wonder if our request to end the deal was met with resistance, and then as if by magic the media was filled with stories of the poor product and suddenly the resistance was gone.
The story in the Telegraph the other day about Newcastle said they got out of their deal because of poor customer service reflecting badly on the club. There were no complaints from players about the kit though. If that's true and they were able to get out of it that easily, and privately, I don't see why we wouldn't be able to get out of ours without a media campaign.
Although there's also the possibility Newcastle just wanted Adidas and had it lined up before getting out of the Castore deal.
That's my thinking though, we're probably the same. The cynic in me thinks maybe Heck has seen the issue of the sweaty shirts as a way out of the deal.
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Carla Ward's comments about the shirts from her presser
""My focus is making sure the players are focused on the weekend and the one thing I will say is the club have been absolutely superb in these last few days with constant communication with 'how can we help the players, what's going to help them, what will make them feel better?'.
"There's a genuine care from the football club. The players feel that, we feel that, but our focus solely now is on Manchester United."
I hope they play in the training shirt.
Sends a message out not only to Castore to stop being shit, or we quit, along with to the pervs who are hoping to see a little more from the womens game on Sunday than just the football.
It will be interesting to see the viewing figures for that game...
That's my thinking though, we're probably the same. The cynic in me thinks maybe Heck has seen the issue of the sweaty shirts as a way out of the deal.
Good.
Hopefully his "I don't care what others think" attitude can finally be of some use to us fans & have us all pulling in the same direction for a change.
Even if its only for this particular issue...
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A mate of mine works for West Indies cricket, and he said they've had all sorts of problems with their Castore kits - so it's not just us. He thinks that behind the scenes, the company is on the brink of collapse.
I looked at their Accounts and they are not pretty.
Some of the stuff he told me is commercially sensitive, so I can't repeat it, suffice to say their Castore deal ended this year, and Castore said they didn't want to renew, then said they did, then changed their offer. WI told them to sod off in the end. He said it was like amateur hour, like they were deciding "what can we afford to offer today?". They also have a six-figure sum's worth of merchandise from Castore sat somewhere in the Indian ocean, which has been missing for over a year. His opinion (not based on any insider info, just his gut feeling), is that they've grown too quickly, have outsourced too much, and don't have control in any of the newer factories they use (like Nike and Adidas do), and so the quality has just dipped across the board - and the quality of their product was their original selling point. Without that, they don't have much.
It's a shame, as until recently it was a really good story of a British sports brand successfully taking on the big boys.
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A mate of mine works for West Indies cricket, and he said they've had all sorts of problems with their Castore kits - so it's not just us. He thinks that behind the scenes, the company is on the brink of collapse.
I looked at their Accounts and they are not pretty.
I would guess it's probably a big case of overtrading. It's lovely getting all these new contracts in with big names, but you have to be able to service them properly. And then if you have to pay a load back because of a fuck up, it's going to hurt. Somebody I know runs Warner gin company, and they went through the a similar. From nothing to then having massive contracts with the likes of Waitrose and Tesco, who then start demanding all sorts of crazy credit terms and exclusivity periods etc.
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When I was reading up on them, when the kits first launched this year, it said all their stuff was made in Portugal in small batches and it was something they seemed to take great pains to mention in their PR stuff. In the past week I've seen Turkey and China mentioned in relation to our kits, last season and this season, so the most obvious conclusion would be they've over reached and outsourced to a point they can't control it all.
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This reminds me of the company that did the cumaru decking in our gardin. They were a small, specialist woodworking/joinery outfit that grew so rapidly (doing massive eco-wildlife park projects, giant log-cabins, walkways and all sorts of shit). Their fast growth meant that they had to take on loads off staff but couldn't get them trained and working to the standards required. So, for example, my decking, while nice has a certain number of faults and displays shoddiness in parts causing SWMBO to moan about it every.single.day.of.the.week. I had them over and it's been 'yeah, yeah we'll sort it' and then it's ostrich mode and fuck you basically. SWMBO even went into their offices and kicked off (She's only lickle but I run away when she starts), which must have great fun for the neutral fan, but they didn't follow up after that either.
I've just heard that they are going to declare bankruptcy, the useless twats. How to ruin a brilliant business. Shame.
Maybe they should have brought in some consultants. ;-)
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Growth for the sake of growth seems to be the pervasive mantra for business, you can't just be happy with your lot these days.
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I hope they play in the training shirt.
Sends a message out not only to Castore to stop being shit, or we quit, along with to the pervs who are hoping to see a little more from the womens game on Sunday than just the football.
It will be interesting to see the viewing figures for that game...
The training shirt is made by Castore too, and seems to be perfectly fine. Obviously made to different specifications, different materials, etc. but still a bit weird that they can clearly do a lot right.
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I hope they play in the training shirt.
Sends a message out not only to Castore to stop being shit, or we quit, along with to the pervs who are hoping to see a little more from the womens game on Sunday than just the football.
It will be interesting to see the viewing figures for that game...
The training shirt is made by Castore too, and seems to be perfectly fine. Obviously made to different specifications, different materials, etc. but still a bit weird that they can clearly do a lot right.
Not necessarily. There's been comments it's just as bad. The match shirt seems perfectly fine until players start working in it.
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I hope they play in the training shirt.
Sends a message out not only to Castore to stop being shit, or we quit, along with to the pervs who are hoping to see a little more from the womens game on Sunday than just the football.
It will be interesting to see the viewing figures for that game...
The training shirt is made by Castore too, and seems to be perfectly fine. Obviously made to different specifications, different materials, etc. but still a bit weird that they can clearly do a lot right.
Not necessarily. There's been comments it's just as bad. The match shirt seems perfectly fine until players start working in it.
I'm just going off the women wearing the match day tops in a preseason game in Spain. It looked alright in the pictures of it, compared to the mens proper kits anyway.
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Yeah, the women weren't wearing training tops, they were the match day tops. Whatever they are. Or for. But they looked alright.
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Hopefully we'll change to a bigger named brand. Kappa and Castore have been poor overall. Surely giants like Adidas & Nike can outbid these smaller companies for the kit deals?
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Hopefully we'll change to a bigger named brand. Kappa and Castore have been poor overall. Surely giants like Adidas & Nike can outbid these smaller companies for the kit deals?
They probably could if they wanted to. The reality of where we are and how we're viewed from a marketing perspective might not be where some fans think we are.
Nike and Adidas both have 4 Premier League teams on their books already, with Newcastle to be added to Adidas next season. Do either of those brands need a side like Villa?
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Hopefully we'll change to a bigger named brand. Kappa and Castore have been poor overall. Surely giants like Adidas & Nike can outbid these smaller companies for the kit deals?
They probably could if they wanted to. The reality of where we are and how we're viewed from a marketing perspective might not be where some fans think we are.
Nike and Adidas both have 4 Premier League teams on their books already, with Newcastle to be added to Adidas next season. Do either of those brands need a side like Villa?
Does adidas need Fulham and Forest..?
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Hopefully we'll change to a bigger named brand. Kappa and Castore have been poor overall. Surely giants like Adidas & Nike can outbid these smaller companies for the kit deals?
They probably could if they wanted to. The reality of where we are and how we're viewed from a marketing perspective might not be where some fans think we are.
Nike and Adidas both have 4 Premier League teams on their books already, with Newcastle to be added to Adidas next season. Do either of those brands need a side like Villa?
Does adidas need Fulham and Forest..?
They're teams at different levels though. They've got Arsenal and Man U at the top, big clubs, big support base. Then they have Fulham, mid table and London. And Forest, at the bottom. Now they have Newcastle too. Only club in a big city.
Maybe we will end up with Adidas. I'm just saying it seems more likely that a brand like that isn't, or at least wasn't, interested in outbidding someone like Castore, than the idea that they couldn't afford to.
(Adidas have 302 clubs/countries on their books this season, according to footballkitarchive)
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I'd guess we've missed the boat with Adidas. I can't see them taking on two clubs the size of Newcastle and us in one season
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I'd guess we've missed the boat with Adidas. I can't see them taking on two clubs the size of Newcastle and us in one season
One of our owners is a share holder in Adidas, he could speak to some of his pals :)
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I'd guess we've missed the boat with Adidas. I can't see them taking on two clubs the size of Newcastle and us in one season
I suspect they'd be able to manage it if necessary.
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I can't remember where I read this, so it could be wrong, but my understanding of how kit deals work is we sign, let's say a 2 year deal with Adidas worth 40 million. We get the 40 mil and all the players/staff kitted out for all occasions. In return, Adidas get to keep the profits off any merchandise sold.
So, if that is the case, or even if they only get a % of profits, the deal has to be one that makes them money. So if we're only shifting 5mil worth of merchandise a year, nobody's going to be offering us more than that to supply it.
Again, that's just my understanding, but at the end of the day kit suppliers are out to make money, and some clubs are seen as way more profitable, especially ones with global appeal.
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Wonder how much the shorts effected us at Anfield? I was sweating stood still, it was insanely hot and our performance was so poor, it makes you wonder.
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I'd guess we've missed the boat with Adidas. I can't see them taking on two clubs the size of Newcastle and us in one season
I'm only guessing but I reckon they'd happily supply every single Premier League team given the opportunity.
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Apologies if this has already been asked and answered but was this not noticed during the pre-season games?
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Yeah, the women weren't wearing training tops, they were the match day tops. Whatever they are. Or for. But they looked alright.
Whatever they are called, I meant the ones they played in previously.
My bad though...
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Wasn't having a pop or anything, but I've seen it said more than once, and not just here, that they were wearing training tops rather than matchday tops.
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Apparently Wolves had a similar issue last season but it was dealt with more discreetly.
I wonder if our request to end the deal was met with resistance, and then as if by magic the media was filled with stories of the poor product and suddenly the resistance was gone.
The story in the Telegraph the other day about Newcastle said they got out of their deal because of poor customer service reflecting badly on the club. There were no complaints from players about the kit though. If that's true and they were able to get out of it that easily, and privately, I don't see why we wouldn't be able to get out of ours without a media campaign.
Although there's also the possibility Newcastle just wanted Adidas and had it lined up before getting out of the Castore deal.
That's my thinking though, we're probably the same. The cynic in me thinks maybe Heck has seen the issue of the sweaty shirts as a way out of the deal.
Sounds plausible to be honest. Doubt it would have been made public if that wasn't the case.
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Apologies if this has already been asked and answered but was this not noticed during the pre-season games?
I did:
Have to say, the shirt looks lovely at a distance and sans sponsor
Close up it’s absolutely wringing wet with sweat. Terrible to play in.
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I find it odd as I bought the player version of the away shirt from last season reduced to £30 from £90 in that sports shop...
Its easily the most lightweight and comfiest football shirt I've ever worn.
So fuck knows what went wrong here.
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A mate of mine works for West Indies cricket, and he said they've had all sorts of problems with their Castore kits - so it's not just us. He thinks that behind the scenes, the company is on the brink of collapse.
I looked at their Accounts and they are not pretty.
It's a shame, as until recently it was a really good story of a British sports brand successfully taking on the big boys.
Two chancers had everyone's pants down is what I heard.
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Puma have only got one club in the PL and that's MC.
I'm sure they'd be open to another.
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Puma have only got one club in the PL and that's MC.
I'm sure they'd be open to another.
I don't think Puma would look good on the adidas shareholder's football shirt.
That said, are there any Redbull Racing or McLaren fans that can comment on their F1 gear? Didn't Redbull go from Puma to Castore?
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Do people buy and wear F1 gear?! I mean, I find it staggering that people buy and wear football shirts, but F1?!
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I'm quite looking forward to seeing ailesha whatsherface in a clingy wet shirt. 😜
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Yes, good for you. Are you aware that pornography exists?
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Ugh
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I'm quite looking forward to seeing ailesha whatsherface in a clingy wet shirt. 😜
I can model my small moobs for you?
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Wasn't having a pop or anything, but I've seen it said more than once, and not just here, that they were wearing training tops rather than matchday tops.
I only know it's a "match day" top because someone posted about the women having a nicer jersey than the men the day they wore it in Spain. I knew it wasn't the same training top the men were wearing so I looked at the shop to see if they had it and that's where I saw it listed as "match day". The men have it too.
I assume someone at the club/castore has already had the idea to play in one of the other tops, assuming they're not an issue. If the women could play in Spain in them without problem it might be the best option.
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Wasn't having a pop or anything, but I've seen it said more than once, and not just here, that they were wearing training tops rather than matchday tops.
Its cool, I didn't think you were mate.
It was my bad, as I had seen them correctly labelled elsewhere & had a brain fart... 👍
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Puma have only got one club in the PL and that's MC.
I'm sure they'd be open to another.
I don't think Puma would look good on the adidas shareholder's football shirt.
That said, are there any Redbull Racing or McLaren fans that can comment on their F1 gear? Didn't Redbull go from Puma to Castore?
I have the castore Mclaren polo shirt. The quality is superb, and the material is lovely. Really can't fault it, yet when I picked up this year's Villa polo, the material is nothing like the Mclaren one.
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Bukta
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New job role going at unnamed sports kit manufacturer.
Wonder who? (https://twitter.com/kitnerd1/status/1707755174205231261?s=48)
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There's one of those shorts on YouTube of the players reacting to their Fifa cards as they arrive for training and I'm sure it's unrelated but Diaby and Torres are both wearing Adidas, and McGinn is head to toe in Nike. Wonder if they're making their preferences known.
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I'm quite looking forward to seeing ailesha whatsherface in a clingy wet shirt. 😜
#maaate
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I'd guess we've missed the boat with Adidas. I can't see them taking on two clubs the size of Newcastle and us in one season
I suspect they'd be able to manage it if necessary.
Adidas is massive, a worldwide giant in sportswear. I'm sure they could handle 2 extra clubs! In fact, they'd relish the extra business and revenue.
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I'm quite looking forward to seeing ailesha whatsherface in a clingy wet shirt. 😜
Really? its not 1977 anymore
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And of course on stuff i've seen on social media about the women's team and the shirts there's plenty of "hur hur wet and clingy, i'll watch the games now" type comments, including from our own fans.
As I said. Social media is full of that stuff.
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https://sportsjournal.io/premier-league-merchandise-revenue-data/
Here's an article from January which backs up what I said earlier, most clubs get about 7.5% of revenue from kit sales, the rest going to the manufacturer. (Deals differ from club to club, Liverpool apparently get 20%, or if there's a massive lump sum and long term, like ManU, they might not get a cut at all)
According to the table in the article, for the year 2022, Aston Villa sold 245,000 shirts. Arsenal, for comparison sold 975,000. ManU and Liverpool sold around 2.5 million each.
So, obviously any of the bigger name brands could outbid the smaller ones for a deal with us, if they wanted to, but they're not going to if they're not going to get a good return on their money. A smaller brand will be more likely to take that risk in the hope that they end up with more deals. Castore probably went higher than they should on their offers and that's how they've ended up with several clubs in such a short time, and how they've seemingly over reached, and will now pay the price.
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There's one of those shorts on YouTube of the players reacting to their Fifa cards as they arrive for training and I'm sure it's unrelated but Diaby and Torres are both wearing Adidas, and McGinn is head to toe in Nike. Wonder if they're making their preferences known.
Probably their personal sponsorship and boot suppliers.
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Do people buy and wear F1 gear?! I mean, I find it staggering that people buy and wear football shirts, but F1?!
Oh yes. I work with a woman who is a massive fan of F1 and a worryingly enthusiastic fan of Lewis Hamilton. She travels all over the world watching races and wears a replica team shirt.
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It’s a good job it’s Prince William who’s the Villa fan and not Prince Andrew.
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It’s a good job it’s Prince William who’s the Villa fan and not Prince Andrew.
Is it not the opposite? Andrew would have no trouble with the shirt.
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Well it was an obvious lie, so he would be proper screwed trying to convince the world he can’t sweat.
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I do wonder what the plan is for tomorrow as there is no way they can play again in these shirts, nor the ladies on Sunday. Castore’s reputation is seriously going to be ruined if these shirts get anymore press coverage this weekend.
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My concern, is how does all this affect next year's 150th anniversary kit. If we do end the contract, how soon can we find another supplier, who can then design and produce a special kit in time for next season. Hopefully adidas/nike would jump at the chance to produce a 'special edition' hopefully based on the first villa shirt.( I'm a traditional claret body blue sleeves fan) but for one season let's go retro and a modern take on the first shirt and colours would be great.
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I do wonder what the plan is for tomorrow as there is no way they can play again in these shirts, nor the ladies on Sunday. Castore’s reputation is seriously going to be ruined if these shirts get anymore press coverage this weekend.
The women are playing in them. I saw it on BBC earlier. They'd hoped something could be done by the weekend but apparently not. The men have been playing in them all along so I assume they'll keep playing in them.
I get the feeling the only reason this has gone public now is because of the women's concerns. How long the issue has been being dealt with is anyone's guess.
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I'm quite looking forward to seeing ailesha whatsherface in a clingy wet shirt. 😜
#maaate
“it’s only banter” = “hiding in plain sight”
Filthmongers
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If you watched the match today, Sevilla’s tops were just as soppingly gross as ours.
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My concern, is how does all this affect next year's 150th anniversary kit. If we do end the contract, how soon can we find another supplier, who can then design and produce a special kit in time for next season. Hopefully adidas/nike would jump at the chance to produce a 'special edition' hopefully based on the first villa shirt.( I'm a traditional claret body blue sleeves fan) but for one season let's go retro and a modern take on the first shirt and colours would be great.
We can just nip to Harry Parkes on Corporation Street and get lovely cotton tops
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My concern, is how does all this affect next year's 150th anniversary kit. If we do end the contract, how soon can we find another supplier, who can then design and produce a special kit in time for next season. Hopefully adidas/nike would jump at the chance to produce a 'special edition' hopefully based on the first villa shirt.( I'm a traditional claret body blue sleeves fan) but for one season let's go retro and a modern take on the first shirt and colours would be great.
My concern about an anniversary shirt is that it should be sponsorless. Especially if they want to go really retro with it and make it look like something from the 1800s.
This is from a few years ago but there's a selection of anniversary shirts from various clubs and manufacturers.
https://www.soccerbible.com/performance/football-apparel/2020/01/25-of-the-best-anniversary-kits-to-be-worn-on-pitch/
Two things stand out to me, 1)Puma do the nicest ones, in my opinion, and 2) most of them were only worn once and released in limited numbers.
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The amount of people on Twitter wanting shit brands (Hummel, Reebok, New Balance) is ridiculous. The worst being all the shouts for Luke again. That was good because it was the right time and place.
Twitter represents the worst of our fans. Most of them act like we're a Championship club: Want the star to show the world we won something once, be grateful Grealish played for us, get shit brands in. We should act bigger than all of this.
Rant over.
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My concern, is how does all this affect next year's 150th anniversary kit. If we do end the contract, how soon can we find another supplier, who can then design and produce a special kit in time for next season. Hopefully adidas/nike would jump at the chance to produce a 'special edition' hopefully based on the first villa shirt.( I'm a traditional claret body blue sleeves fan) but for one season let's go retro and a modern take on the first shirt and colours would be great.
My concern about an anniversary shirt is that it should be sponsorless. Especially if they want to go really retro with it and make it look like something from the 1800s.
This is from a few years ago but there's a selection of anniversary shirts from various clubs and manufacturers.
https://www.soccerbible.com/performance/football-apparel/2020/01/25-of-the-best-anniversary-kits-to-be-worn-on-pitch/
Two things stand out to me, 1)Puma do the nicest ones, in my opinion, and 2) most of them were only worn once and released in limited numbers.
Prepare to be angry then because there is no chance on earth that we will go sponsor free next season…maybe one game around the date is possible if both parties see a marketing opportunity out of it but unlikely.
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The amount of people on Twitter wanting shit brands (Hummel, Reebok, New Balance) is ridiculous. The worst being all the shouts for Luke again. That was good because it was the right time and place.
Twitter represents the worst of our fans. Most of them act like we're a Championship club: Want the star to show the world we won something once, be grateful Grealish played for us, get shit brands in. We should act bigger than all of this.
Rant over.
This.
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My concern, is how does all this affect next year's 150th anniversary kit. If we do end the contract, how soon can we find another supplier, who can then design and produce a special kit in time for next season. Hopefully adidas/nike would jump at the chance to produce a 'special edition' hopefully based on the first villa shirt.( I'm a traditional claret body blue sleeves fan) but for one season let's go retro and a modern take on the first shirt and colours would be great.
My concern about an anniversary shirt is that it should be sponsorless. Especially if they want to go really retro with it and make it look like something from the 1800s.
This is from a few years ago but there's a selection of anniversary shirts from various clubs and manufacturers.
https://www.soccerbible.com/performance/football-apparel/2020/01/25-of-the-best-anniversary-kits-to-be-worn-on-pitch/
Two things stand out to me, 1)Puma do the nicest ones, in my opinion, and 2) most of them were only worn once and released in limited numbers.
Prepare to be angry then because there is no chance on earth that we will go sponsor free next season…maybe one game around the date is possible if both parties see a marketing opportunity out of it but unlikely.
We're not going to go sponserless all season, but if you see the 2nd point after the article, it seems far more likely that there'll just be a normal kit for the full season with a limited edition, only worn once, hopefully sponsorless, anniversary shirt released alongside the others.
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I would imagine any manufacturer would be DELIGHTED to provide a kit for a significant club anniversary. As long as it's not an abomination, it's likely to be a best-seller. I was waiting to see it, but I was planning it would be the first 'in season' shirt I've bought in about a decade - I'm sure I'm not alone in that.
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I would imagine any manufacturer would be DELIGHTED to provide a kit for a significant club anniversary. As long as it's not an abomination, it's likely to be a best-seller. I was waiting to see it, but I was planning it would be the first 'in season' shirt I've bought in about a decade - I'm sure I'm not alone in that.
An awful lot of anniversary shirts only got limited releases, I'd guess at much higher prices. So we'd release 1,874, for example.
I guess it comes down to what's going to make them most money.
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I'm quite looking forward to seeing ailesha whatsherface in a clingy wet shirt. 😜
#maaate
“it’s only banter” = “hiding in plain sight”
Filthmongers
Russell's been branded.
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I would imagine any manufacturer would be DELIGHTED to provide a kit for a significant club anniversary. As long as it's not an abomination, it's likely to be a best-seller. I was waiting to see it, but I was planning it would be the first 'in season' shirt I've bought in about a decade - I'm sure I'm not alone in that.
An awful lot of anniversary shirts only got limited releases, I'd guess at much higher prices. So we'd release 1,874, for example.
I guess it comes down to what's going to make them most money.
That would be a disaster as most of them would be on eBay within half an hour.
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TNT script writers shoe-horned in 'the shirt mustn't wear so heavy now...' at least twice in post match. Good for SJM to say it was still rubbish!
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Did they change anything with the kits for today’s game? They didn’t look as drenched as they have all season.
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Did they change anything with the kits for today’s game? They didn’t look as drenched as they have all season.
New sponsorship deal with Sure antiperspirant being announced any day now.
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Grrrrrrr, would have been 12-0 in proper shirts!
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Did they change anything with the kits for today’s game? They didn’t look as drenched as they have all season.
They were, the video of the players coming back down the tunnel after the game showed them in all their sweat drenched yukkiness.
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TNT script writers shoe-horned in 'the shirt mustn't wear so heavy now...' at least twice in post match. Good for SJM to say it was still rubbish!
McGinn is a funny f*cker. Another quip about when he saw the tactics pre game either we were going to win or lose 6-1.
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Did they change anything with the kits for today’s game? They didn’t look as drenched as they have all season.
We just didn't have the need to break a sweat...
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A guy with the Telegraph bought one of the player spec kits for £115 and wore it to the gym. Said 5 mins in he felt it clinging to him, and after 30 minutes there was an actual puddle on the floor around him. As he cleaned up his mess his teeth started to chatter, the air con hitting him like he'd just got out of the pool. Another day he wore it again so his boss could take pictures and did some shuttle runs in the local park. Same sweaty mess happened and he said it actually feels like you're carrying a couple of kilos extra on you.
He also said as he was opening it he couldn't notice much difference between the jersey material and the plastic bag it came in.
He and the gym attendant he was chatting with seemed to agree that the tennis gear they made with Andy Murray was really great quality. And the conclusion, which most people have come to, is that Castore went too big too soon, overreaching and outsourcing to places they can't quality control.
Edit - I'd still like to see someone do a comparison between a couple of the clubs with Castore.
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It's overpriced shit, that's what it is.
The timing couldn't be worse to leave the deal, with the anniversary next season, lead times etc. We'll have no kit ready for supporters to buy until November etc.
My gut feeling is that we will end up with adidas as our owner has a share, or Nike because of the Heck connection (Nike have NBA, NFL and MLB deals). Given our current trajectory, you'd think we're far more attractive a proposition than we were.
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A guy with the Telegraph bought one of the player spec kits for £115 and wore it to the gym. Said 5 mins in he felt it clinging to him, and after 30 minutes there was an actual puddle on the floor around him. As he cleaned up his mess his teeth started to chatter, the air con hitting him like he'd just got out of the pool. Another day he wore it again so his boss could take pictures and did some shuttle runs in the local park. Same sweaty mess happened and he said it actually feels like you're carrying a couple of kilos extra on you.
He also said as he was opening it he couldn't notice much difference between the jersey material and the plastic bag it came in.
He and the gym attendant he was chatting with seemed to agree that the tennis gear they made with Andy Murray was really great quality. And the conclusion, which most people have come to, is that Castore went too big too soon, overreaching and outsourcing to places they can't quality control.
Edit - I'd still like to see someone do a comparison between a couple of the clubs with Castore.
The bold bit is something I was talking about a few days ago. At this time of year the shirts are horrible sticky things that must be really uncomfortable and we can all see that but when we get into winter games on a cold evening with frost in the air playing in a shirt that is soaked through will go from being a bit uncomfortable to being borderline dangerous.
I've played rugby in some fucking awful conditions but by far the worst was a cup game at Belper in early December where it was raining at kick off but stopped and cleared up early in the game. By half time it was about -3 everyone on the pitch had blue lips and fingers and couldn't feel their feet, after about 30seconds chatting the ref decided to abandon the game because it just wasn't safe. I've jumped into a fjord in January and lived in Norway for 2 years and I've never been anything like as cold as I was during that game. If our shirts had been like this crap I can imagine things going a lot worse than they did.
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I trained in Aston Villa’s £115 Castore shirt – and flooded the gym floor with sweat
It appears that Aston Villa’s controversial football shirt is more suited to aquatic sports than the beautiful game
DELIVERED! Enjoy your new merch.” said the cheery email from Aston Villa’s online shop. But would I enjoy the notorious wet-look shirt? The one that becomes instantly saturated during exercise? This is the shirt, it is whispered, that would make even Prince Andrew perspire.
Retailing at £115 (or £130 with a player’s name) the latest version of the claret-and-blue kit reflects poorly on both manufacturers Castore and Villa themselves. It finished next to bottom in Telegraph Sport’s round-up of the season’s best kits. And that was before we’d heard about its side-effects.
My test kit arrived in the post yesterday. As I was separating it from the packaging, the fabric felt almost identical to the surrounding plastic. Clearly, no animals nor plants had been harmed during the making of this shirt. There was about as much natural fibre here as you might find in a Pot Noodle.
Torn between sizes, I had eventually ordered the small. The idea was to replicate the figure-hugging effect reported by Villa’s players. For the women’s teams, the discomfort has extended beyond the physical. “No woman that I know wants to get hot and sweaty and have their sports gear cling to them in all places,” said the BBC commentator Jacqui Oatley last week.
In the absence of a last-minute call-up to training at Bodymoor Heath, I took myself and my shiny second skin down to the gym. Half-an-hour on a Wattbike should sort the cotton from the polyester. And indeed I was only five minutes in before an uncomfortable prickling broke out on my back. Either someone was walking on my grave, or the shirt was already sticking like cling film.
I should point out that I am a drippy character at the best of times. No-one would entrust me with a reverse-swinging cricket ball, for fear of the dry side being tainted. But even I wasn’t prepared for the sweatnami that erupted from my pores.
Nor for the process of clearing up the mess afterwards. I was spraying water like a firehose, creating a sizeable puddle at the foot of the machine. Having climbed off the bike, I went to work with paper towel and a hygienic spray – plus a little help from an understanding David Lloyd Leisure employee. But a mop and bucket would have been handy.
Despite now looking like the “Before” section of a deodorant advert, I remained at the scene of the crime for another few minutes. I was discussing Castore with my new friend: the gym supervisor, who had generously forgiven me for flooding his floor.
We agreed that Castore’s tennis kit, pioneered by Andy Murray four years ago, is excellent. But perhaps the firm’s rapid expansion – which includes contracts with the England cricket team, as well as Rangers and Newcastle United, among other footballing clients – has left them overextended? The new Villa shirt was made in China, where last season’s had come from Turkey.
We weren’t chatting for long, though, before my teeth started chattering. It was as if I had climbed straight out of the adjacent swimming pool into the gym’s ferocious air-conditioning. So I took myself off to the shower and packed up my stuff. Next time… well, with any luck, there won’t be a next time. But if there were, I would make a mental note to bring a second bag. As I shoved the sodden shirt in with the rest of my kit, I might as well have poured my water bottle in there too.
I still had to repeat a similar process this morning. My boss insisted that natural light would facilitate the snapping of humiliating pics. This time, as I performed shuttle runs at the local park, I did at least have some breeze in my face. But after 20 minutes or so, the result was the same: half human, half otter, only considerably less cute.
News reports suggest that Aston Villa are already in discussions about terminating their equipment contract. I can understand why. Judging by my experiment, this shirt is only fit for one sport, and that’s water polo.
From the torygraph
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The bold bit is something I was talking about a few days ago. At this time of year the shirts are horrible sticky things that must be really uncomfortable and we can all see that but when we get into winter games on a cold evening with frost in the air playing in a shirt that is soaked through will go from being a bit uncomfortable to being borderline dangerous.
From this guy's write up it also sounds like the problem isn't just the lack of wicking ability, it's that the material is akin to a plastic bag, making you sweat more than you normally would. Which is bound to have an effect on hydration during a match too. They could market the jersey to boxers trying to make weight and make a fortune.
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The bold bit is something I was talking about a few days ago. At this time of year the shirts are horrible sticky things that must be really uncomfortable and we can all see that but when we get into winter games on a cold evening with frost in the air playing in a shirt that is soaked through will go from being a bit uncomfortable to being borderline dangerous.
From this guy's write up it also sounds like the problem isn't just the lack of wicking ability, it's that the material is akin to a plastic bag, making you sweat more than you normally would. Which is bound to have an effect on hydration during a match too. They could market the jersey to boxers trying to make weight and make a fortune.
Absolutely, use them in the same way some people use cling film, could open up a whole new revenue stream for the club.
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It beggars belief how we even played one pre season game with these defective kits. They must have been horrendous in the heat to wear.
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The timing couldn't be worse to leave the deal, with the anniversary next season, lead times etc. We'll have no kit ready for supporters to buy until November etc.
It's highly unlikely that we'll go into the new year not having a new manufacturer lined up, or at the very least a renewed Castore deal with very tight assurances from them.
Whoever we're going to have next season will have plenty of time to get things organised. It might not be made public knowledge until the end of the season, but I don't think it'll be a last minute thing.
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The timing couldn't be worse to leave the deal, with the anniversary next season, lead times etc. We'll have no kit ready for supporters to buy until November etc.
It's highly unlikely that we'll go into the new year not having a new manufacturer lined up, or at the very least a renewed Castore deal with very tight assurances from them.
Whoever we're going to have next season will have plenty of time to get things organised. It might not be made public knowledge until the end of the season, but I don't think it'll be a last minute thing.
It might not be a last-minute thing, but if we changed horses now we would still be months behind the usual process. Next seasons PL shirts will mostly now already have been designed and factory time booked. It's not impossible for someone to step in, but they would be up against it in our anniversary year. And if you think we get kits late now, try swapping manufacturers at this stage.
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I trained in Aston Villa’s £115 Castore shirt – and flooded the gym floor with sweat
It appears that Aston Villa’s controversial football shirt is more suited to aquatic sports than the beautiful game
DELIVERED! Enjoy your new merch.” said the cheery email from Aston Villa’s online shop. But would I enjoy the notorious wet-look shirt? The one that becomes instantly saturated during exercise? This is the shirt, it is whispered, that would make even Prince Andrew perspire.
Retailing at £115 (or £130 with a player’s name) the latest version of the claret-and-blue kit reflects poorly on both manufacturers Castore and Villa themselves. It finished next to bottom in Telegraph Sport’s round-up of the season’s best kits. And that was before we’d heard about its side-effects.
My test kit arrived in the post yesterday. As I was separating it from the packaging, the fabric felt almost identical to the surrounding plastic. Clearly, no animals nor plants had been harmed during the making of this shirt. There was about as much natural fibre here as you might find in a Pot Noodle.
Torn between sizes, I had eventually ordered the small. The idea was to replicate the figure-hugging effect reported by Villa’s players. For the women’s teams, the discomfort has extended beyond the physical. “No woman that I know wants to get hot and sweaty and have their sports gear cling to them in all places,” said the BBC commentator Jacqui Oatley last week.
In the absence of a last-minute call-up to training at Bodymoor Heath, I took myself and my shiny second skin down to the gym. Half-an-hour on a Wattbike should sort the cotton from the polyester. And indeed I was only five minutes in before an uncomfortable prickling broke out on my back. Either someone was walking on my grave, or the shirt was already sticking like cling film.
I should point out that I am a drippy character at the best of times. No-one would entrust me with a reverse-swinging cricket ball, for fear of the dry side being tainted. But even I wasn’t prepared for the sweatnami that erupted from my pores.
Nor for the process of clearing up the mess afterwards. I was spraying water like a firehose, creating a sizeable puddle at the foot of the machine. Having climbed off the bike, I went to work with paper towel and a hygienic spray – plus a little help from an understanding David Lloyd Leisure employee. But a mop and bucket would have been handy.
Despite now looking like the “Before” section of a deodorant advert, I remained at the scene of the crime for another few minutes. I was discussing Castore with my new friend: the gym supervisor, who had generously forgiven me for flooding his floor.
We agreed that Castore’s tennis kit, pioneered by Andy Murray four years ago, is excellent. But perhaps the firm’s rapid expansion – which includes contracts with the England cricket team, as well as Rangers and Newcastle United, among other footballing clients – has left them overextended? The new Villa shirt was made in China, where last season’s had come from Turkey.
We weren’t chatting for long, though, before my teeth started chattering. It was as if I had climbed straight out of the adjacent swimming pool into the gym’s ferocious air-conditioning. So I took myself off to the shower and packed up my stuff. Next time… well, with any luck, there won’t be a next time. But if there were, I would make a mental note to bring a second bag. As I shoved the sodden shirt in with the rest of my kit, I might as well have poured my water bottle in there too.
I still had to repeat a similar process this morning. My boss insisted that natural light would facilitate the snapping of humiliating pics. This time, as I performed shuttle runs at the local park, I did at least have some breeze in my face. But after 20 minutes or so, the result was the same: half human, half otter, only considerably less cute.
News reports suggest that Aston Villa are already in discussions about terminating their equipment contract. I can understand why. Judging by my experiment, this shirt is only fit for one sport, and that’s water polo.
From the torygraph
Interesting that it apparently "reflects poorly on Villa".
The club are just as much victims, due to Castores issues, as the fans are.
They didn't ask for the shirts to be made out of bin bags...
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Interesting that it apparently "reflects poorly on Villa".
The club are just as much victims, due to Castores issues, as the fans are.
They didn't ask for the shirts to be made out of bin bags...
This is why I wish they'd address the fact that other clubs have the same supplier and seemingly don't have the same problem. He should have done the same workout in a Wolves jersey, a Rangers one, and a Rep of Ireland one for good measure. Then a Spurs one and a Fulham one, just to compare brands, and then written up his report.
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Interesting that it apparently "reflects poorly on Villa".
The club are just as much victims, due to Castores issues, as the fans are.
They didn't ask for the shirts to be made out of bin bags...
This is why I wish they'd address the fact that other clubs have the same supplier and seemingly don't have the same problem. He should have done the same workout in a Wolves jersey, a Rangers one, and a Rep of Ireland one for good measure. Then a Spurs one and a Fulham one, just to compare brands, and then written up his report.
It's not a scientific report, it's a throwaway piece in a newspaper.
The reason he won't have tested other shirts is because those other clubs have not had the problem.
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Interesting that it apparently "reflects poorly on Villa".
The club are just as much victims, due to Castores issues, as the fans are.
They didn't ask for the shirts to be made out of bin bags...
This is why I wish they'd address the fact that other clubs have the same supplier and seemingly don't have the same problem. He should have done the same workout in a Wolves jersey, a Rangers one, and a Rep of Ireland one for good measure. Then a Spurs one and a Fulham one, just to compare brands, and then written up his report.
It's not a scientific report, it's a throwaway piece in a newspaper.
The reason he won't have tested other shirts is because those other clubs have not had the problem.
I'm aware it's not a scientific report. But if you're going to say something makes the club look bad you should probably, at the very least, compare kits made by the same manufacturer for other clubs.
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Interesting that it apparently "reflects poorly on Villa".
The club are just as much victims, due to Castores issues, as the fans are.
They didn't ask for the shirts to be made out of bin bags...
This is why I wish they'd address the fact that other clubs have the same supplier and seemingly don't have the same problem. He should have done the same workout in a Wolves jersey, a Rangers one, and a Rep of Ireland one for good measure. Then a Spurs one and a Fulham one, just to compare brands, and then written up his report.
It's not a scientific report, it's a throwaway piece in a newspaper.
The reason he won't have tested other shirts is because those other clubs have not had the problem.
I'm aware it's not a scientific report. But if you're going to say something makes the club look bad you should probably, at the very least, compare kits made by the same manufacturer for other clubs.
Its a wonder the club didnt road test them beforehand. You live and learn I suppose
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I doubt any club road tests final manufactured shirts. They are designed to a spec which Castore have clearly failed to deliver. The club is not at fault here.
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I doubt any club road tests final manufactured shirts. They are designed to a spec which Castore have clearly failed to deliver. The club is not at fault here.
It's possible too that samples were made up in their smaller factories and they were the ones given the go ahead from the club. Castore then went and had them made in China for cheap.
Funny that when they were launched there were people on here saying how they'd bought knock off ones from China for a fraction of the price. They're probably the real deal.
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Interesting that it apparently "reflects poorly on Villa".
The club are just as much victims, due to Castores issues, as the fans are.
They didn't ask for the shirts to be made out of bin bags...
What reflects badly on Villa is that they’re still selling these shirts in the club shop. For £115
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Interesting that it apparently "reflects poorly on Villa".
The club are just as much victims, due to Castores issues, as the fans are.
They didn't ask for the shirts to be made out of bin bags...
What reflects badly on Villa is that they’re still selling these shirts in the club shop. For £115
Granted, that is a fair point...
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I agree but I also think withdrawing the shirts from sale would create a few problems for us.
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I want to wear one of these pro shirts to see if they really are as bad as its been said. Not paying for one though.
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I agree but I also think withdrawing the shirts from sale would create a few problems for us.
Yeah, it'd be all sorts of legal problems with recalling the product and refunds etc etc. There's no way they'd do that.
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Out of interest, is this problem only with the pro shirts?
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Out of interest, is this problem only with the pro shirts?
Seems it yes.
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I think we should replay the game we lost against Liverpool because of it.
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I want to wear one of these pro shirts to see if they really are as bad as its been said. Not paying for one though.
I’m not running around enough to generate a sweat
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I want to wear one of these pro shirts to see if they really are as bad as its been said. Not paying for one though.
I'm too fat
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I want to wear one of these pro shirts to see if they really are as bad as its been said. Not paying for one though.
I'm surprised none of the football "content" creators on YouTube have done a video along these lines. Get sponsored by Prime! to rehydrate after sweating out half a stone of sweat.
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There’s a solution on its way, as reported in the Telegraph…behind a pay wall, so if anyone could paste it up here I’d be grateful!
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Most of it’s here….
Aston Villa are set to be offered a choice of solutions to the club’s ‘wet-look’ shirt issue by manufacturer Castore amid optimism the issue is on course to be rectified.
Telegraph Sport understands that Castore have identified the cause of the problem and have been aiming to give Villa at least two options they believe will remedy the problem.
One of those is thought to be for Castore to provide Villa with an entire new batch of playing shirts, with the alternative likely to be making small adjustments to the current kit.
With temperatures cooling and Villa performing well this season, there is recognition the club may not want a completely new batch of shirts to give players, who can be famously superstitious.
That is why it is believed Castore have also been working on finding a way of making adjustments to the current kit that could significantly improve the performance of the shirts in the Premier League and in Europe.
Castore have not commented, but an industry insider believes the ability of Villa’s shirts to effectively absorb sweat has been impacted by an imbalance relating to the logo of the club’s principal sponsor, rather than poor quality fabric.
Villa players raised complaints about the shirt becoming wet through and heavy as they perspired, with sources claiming it felt like they had jumped into a swimming pool.
Telegraph Sport has reported that Villa and Castore have held talks over cutting their contract short at the end of this season, when the Midlands club are expected to change kit manufacturer.
While the issue has caused Castore some embarrassment, it is expected the British manufacturer will take over as Everton’s kit supplier from next season.
It is understood that Castore are not the only manufacturer to experience this type of problem, but some of the market’s biggest brands have fixed the issue without it becoming public knowledge.
In a statement, Castore said: “There has been some media speculation about a potential issue in the football kit supplied by Castore to Aston Villa Football Club. We are working closely in collaboration with the club to address this issue as quickly as possible to meet the standards we expect. We would like to thank the club for their patience and support to date.
“As a proud new British brand, we always hold ourselves to the highest of standards and strive to do everything we can to constantly improve the performance of our products. This means addressing any customer concerns with promptness and humility.”
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How could the logo cause that amount if sweating?
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They're saying it's the fault of the sponsor logo? Didn't we play without the logo in Warsaw? And maybe one of the preseason games too? And they still were soaked?
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They're saying it's the fault of the sponsor logo? Didn't we play without the logo in Warsaw? And maybe one of the preseason games too? And they still were soaked?
I think Castore are trying to cast aspersions.
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They're saying it's the fault of the sponsor logo? Didn't we play without the logo in Warsaw? And maybe one of the preseason games too? And they still were soaked?
I think Castore are trying to cast aspersions.
Pretty silly thing to do when it can be easily disproved.
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Its the logos fault? 😂🤣
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This seems to have gone quiet. I see the shirts were soaking again yesterday. Any update on what Castore are doing to supply new uniforms?
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Brighton and West Ham should count their blessings that these kits are negatively impacting our performances.
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It’s gonna be a bit more controversial after a narrow defeat.
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This seems to have gone quiet. I see the shirts were soaking again yesterday. Any update on what Castore are doing to supply new uniforms?
Sorry mate but I can't let you get away with calling the kit a uniform. 😉
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This seems to have gone quiet. I see the shirts were soaking again yesterday. Any update on what Castore are doing to supply new uniforms?
Sorry mate but I can't let you get away with calling the kit a uniform. 😉
Yep, that’s a fair cop.
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Policeman
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Ha ha, very good.
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I doubt any club road tests final manufactured shirts. They are designed to a spec which Castore have clearly failed to deliver. The club is not at fault here.
The club should have made an issue of it after the first pre season game. It must have been obvious then that there was a serious quality issue. Not let it drift into the season proper and having the players to complain to bring this to a head.
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Aston Villa have finally taken delivery of a new shipment of Castore shirts with the sportswear manufacturer hopeful they have now solved the club’s ‘wet-look’ issue that prompted complaints from players.
Exclusive: Despite the new shipment, it is still expected that the club and kit manufacturer will cut short their ‘multi-year’ deal
Telegraph Sport understands that Castore are still due to supply Villa with technical details over the changes that have been made before Unai Emery’s players test the new shirts out.
No matter whether a solution has been found, it is still expected that Villa and Castore will cut short their ‘multi-year’ partnership that was announced last year at the end of the season. But the two parties have been working amicably and continue to do so.
Players from Villa’s men’s and women’s teams had raised complaints about this season’s shirts that quickly become wet and cling to their bodies.
Villa felt the problem with the shirts represents a performance issue, with men’s players claiming they become heavy and uncomfortable, while women’s players also raised concerns.
The ‘wet-look’ issue was glaringly obvious during the warmer months of the season, when the shirts became much darker as they absorbed sweat. The cooler temperatures mean television pictures have not picked it up as easily recently, but the problem is understood to have persisted, despite Villa’s incredible form.
In September, Castore promised to “address this issue as quickly as possible to meet the standards we expect” and the company finally delivered a new batch of shirts to Villa last week.
Villa’s players did not wear the new shirts for either of the victories against Manchester City or Arsenal, which propelled Emery’s team to third place in the Premier League table.
They are not expected to do so in their next two fixtures, either, against Zrinjski Mostar in the Europa Conference League and Brentford in the Premier League, but the shirts could be used after that if Villa receive the technical details and are happy with them.
Castore felt the issue had been caused by an imbalance related to the BK8 sponsorship logo emblazoned across the shirts, but accepted full responsibility and vowed to find a workable solution.
Given Villa’s excellent start to the season and the superstitious nature of some players, it is unclear whether or not any of the club’s stars could request to keep playing in the batch of shirts they have used up to now, regardless of whether others eventually change to the new shipment supplied by Castore.
Source : Daily Telegraph Matt Law
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Matty Law, he's one of us, right? Can't imagine any other Torygraph football reporter would give enough of a toss to write an article about this.
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Hope that means we can dump the sponsor as well.
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Policeman
Did you just assume the officers gender?
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Call me crazy but I think we've done alright in the sweaty shirts and should just keep wearing them!
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Call me crazy but I think we've done alright in the sweaty shirts and should just keep wearing them!
You're crazy.
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Matty Law, he's one of us, right? Can't imagine any other Torygraph football reporter would give enough of a toss to write an article about this.
Although the Express also have a similar story by Sam Smith, not sure if you can tell from the title the pictures used.
Alisha Lehmann's 'wet-look' kit changed as Aston Villa receive new shirts from Castore
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Call me crazy but I think we've done alright in the sweaty shirts and should just keep wearing them!
Should we call you CBITWDAITSSASJKWT for short?