Post by: Bad English on September 16, 2023, 05:06:22 PM
Post by: Smirker on September 16, 2023, 05:07:26 PM
F's got F'd.
Durán deserves to start over Watkins.
Post by: Axl Rose on September 16, 2023, 05:08:16 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 16, 2023, 05:08:22 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 16, 2023, 05:08:37 PM
Post by: Smirker on September 16, 2023, 05:09:31 PM
Post by: Villan82 on September 16, 2023, 05:10:08 PM
Disappointing to see negativity creep into match threads when things go against us. We always have a chance of a turnaround with this manager.
Post by: Risso on September 16, 2023, 05:10:50 PM
Truly superb goal from Duran, definite penalty then well finished off by Diaby and Bailey.
Post by: Axl Rose on September 16, 2023, 05:11:37 PM
I fully and completely back this manager after he took us to 7th in two thirds of last season.
Disappointing to see negativity creep into match threads when things go against us. We always have a chance of a turnaround with this manager.
Get a grip, mate.
It's a match thread on a football forum. What do you think is going to happen when we are losing at home to Palace, and not playing that well?
Post by: Smirker on September 16, 2023, 05:11:46 PM
I fully and completely back this manager after he took us to 7th in two thirds of last season.
Disappointing to see negativity creep into match threads when things go against us. We always have a chance of a turnaround with this manager.
Well said.
Emery is a footballing God and knows what he's doing.
Post by: Bad English on September 16, 2023, 05:12:36 PM
Haha well before the game ends. Only bad things can happen now.I was watching on DAB fibre optic nuclear radio so it finished before you lot.
Post by: enigma on September 16, 2023, 05:13:06 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on September 16, 2023, 05:13:07 PM
Post by: Risso on September 16, 2023, 05:13:50 PM
I fully and completely back this manager after he took us to 7th in two thirds of last season.
Disappointing to see negativity creep into match threads when things go against us. We always have a chance of a turnaround with this manager.
Oh do give it a rest Mr Betterfan, we were playing badly and people have the right to say so. Nobody was jumping and up and down in the ground with the quality of football on show.
Great result and last few minutes, but the second half until the goal was poor, and nobody wants us to see us play like that. Certainly not Emery anyway, who looked far from happy.
Post by: TonyD on September 16, 2023, 05:14:01 PM
Should have been out of sight by half time.
Looked dead and buried in the second half.
Then somehow bounced back. What a goal!!!
Palace are shite.
I think Kamara needs benching.
Pau can pass but not much of a defender.
Zani could be a superstar.
And Bailey did ok. Cough.
Post by: Nelly on September 16, 2023, 05:14:12 PM
Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 16, 2023, 05:15:21 PM
What a strange game.
Should have been out of sight by half time.
Looked dead and buried in the second half.
Then somehow bounced back.
Palace are shite.
I think Kamara needs benching.
Pau can pass but not much of a defender.
Zani could be a superstar.
And Bailey did ok. Cough.
Doesn't even rhyme.
Post by: Monty on September 16, 2023, 05:15:37 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 16, 2023, 05:15:40 PM
Haha well before the game ends. Only bad things can happen now.I was watching on DAB fibre optic nuclear radio so it finished before you lot.
Trying to keep up with the ‘Shins I see
Post by: Percy McCarthy on September 16, 2023, 05:16:06 PM
Post by: Legion on September 16, 2023, 05:16:06 PM
Post by: Martyn Smith on September 16, 2023, 05:17:26 PM
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 16, 2023, 05:17:39 PM
Post by: AV84 on September 16, 2023, 05:17:49 PM
Post by: Ducksworthy on September 16, 2023, 05:18:25 PM
Average first half, piss poor first 40 minutes of the second half, brilliant last 5 (+15) minutes!
Truly superb goal from Duran, definite penalty then well finished off by Diaby and Bailey.
But please do tell us again how we only have one striker etc etc ;)
Overall disappointing but a good finish and thee points, can’t complain.
Post by: lovejoy on September 16, 2023, 05:18:57 PM
I fully and completely back this manager after he took us to 7th in two thirds of last season.
Disappointing to see negativity creep into match threads when things go against us. We always have a chance of a turnaround with this manager.
Get a grip, mate.
It's a match thread on a football forum. What do you think is going to happen when we are losing at home to Palace, and not playing that well?
I’m with Villain82 on this one. Some posts sound like they are written by primary school kids with players veering from being total shit to world beaters within minutes.
Post by: Bad English on September 16, 2023, 05:19:09 PM
I fully and completely back this manager after he took us to 7th in two thirds of last season.We were losing 0-1 on 87 minutes and totally toothless, not to say wank, in the second half. We're not going to sing, I mean post, "Let's all have a disco!".
Disappointing to see negativity creep into match threads when things go against us. We always have a chance of a turnaround with this manager.
Also, part of the fun of match threads is going totally OTT, you really shouldn't take them seriously.
Post by: Percy McCarthy on September 16, 2023, 05:19:39 PM
Post by: Brend'Watkins on September 16, 2023, 05:19:46 PM
Hope Ger stayed dry in the lower regions.
Post by: Risso on September 16, 2023, 05:20:51 PM
Positives - great spirit. Zaniolo looked decent, great goal from Duran, Diaby always looks a threat, Torres is a great passer of the ball, subs changed the game.
Negatives - Kamara out of sorts again, Torres is a terrible defender, Watkins.
Post by: Risso on September 16, 2023, 05:21:21 PM
BBC live table currently has us on 7 points.
Saw that, they need to borrow PWS's telescope.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on September 16, 2023, 05:21:34 PM
BBC live table currently has us on 7 points.
Fuck the London loving BBC. Wankers to a man.
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 16, 2023, 05:22:09 PM
Post by: Risso on September 16, 2023, 05:22:10 PM
Post by: pablo_picasso on September 16, 2023, 05:23:03 PM
But it did feel like we could play until the sun touches the earth & never score.
So its delightful to see us managing to get a win when we were 0-1 down on the 87th minute.
Maybe Duran should get a shot up front to see what he can do for 90 mins?
Post by: supertom on September 16, 2023, 05:23:20 PM
That said the goal was a touch of magic out of the blue. We should have taken chances in the first half and second really but there was no pissing about with Duran.
My biggest negative today, aside from Torres getting bullied again, was Tielemens. It took our first goal to wake him up because he played like he was half asleep. After all the press nonsense I'd have expected him fired up. Slow, cumbersome and lackadaisical with the ball. If he wants a shirt he's got to be way way better.
Diaby was lively again and Bailey looked sharp when he came on. I just wish Leon was the same player away from home.
Back to Duran. He's raw, he's awkward, he's a little wild with flailing legs and he's unpredictable. He reminds me of a cross between Tino Asprilla and Wanchope at times. Maybe a dash of Yeboah. He's like a bull in a China shop but he's definitely a livewire and I love him. I think he'll score a few pearlers this season. He might get sent off once or twice for double yellows but there you go. Does he need refinement? Would too much take something away?
We've snatched victory from the jaws of defeat (the sign of a good side). I quite like Palace but they really should have been a bit more clinical on a few of those counters. They'll say it's harsh but for the silky players and quick counterattacks, they didn't test Dibu enough.
Post by: dave shelley on September 16, 2023, 05:24:02 PM
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 16, 2023, 05:24:08 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 16, 2023, 05:26:01 PM
Post by: Dave on September 16, 2023, 05:26:47 PM
Diaby just seems to have that bit of quality when it matters. Great first touch and shpt for his VAR "goal", and the run and pass to Bailey to finish things of was superb.
And while we're covering "subs changing the game", loads of praise for Duran and Bailey - but it was a great ball from Tielemans for the penalty, and his ball that put Diaby in.
Considering he's come in for a bit of stick.
Post by: paul_e on September 16, 2023, 05:27:23 PM
I'm in Dublin for the weekend and have been out all afternoon and got back about 5pm, jumped on here to see how the match went and it was 1-1, I wasn't happy but then saw the stoppage time was running at about 9 minutes. Where did it all come from? Was there a bad injury? The final result is going to make the pints better tonight.
Sam Johnstone was down injured for about 5mins and then a bunch of general delays and time wasting. Ended up being more like 15 minutes because of another injury and a couple more goals.
Post by: villadelph on September 16, 2023, 05:28:30 PM
I’ll be interested to see how many touches Dougie got today, he was everywhere. Diaby was great too. He’s one of those players where the game is in slow motion for them and they can just have their way.
Great result to keep us up at the top end of the table. In Unai we trust - enjoy the rest of your weekend guys!
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 16, 2023, 05:29:07 PM
Post by: Axl Rose on September 16, 2023, 05:29:50 PM
I just looked and the BBC still haven't got our game as FT.
Same on Google.
(https://i.ibb.co/JdZf7BZ/Screenshot-20230917-012903.png) (https://ibb.co/JdZf7BZ)
Post by: Bad English on September 16, 2023, 05:30:27 PM
Which is why we watch football. The match thread reflects these wild, irrational swings of emotion. Do you want it to be like *****, *** , *****, *****; and ******** debating politics, philosophy, and history in OT?I fully and completely back this manager after he took us to 7th in two thirds of last season.
Disappointing to see negativity creep into match threads when things go against us. We always have a chance of a turnaround with this manager.
Get a grip, mate.
It's a match thread on a football forum. What do you think is going to happen when we are losing at home to Palace, and not playing that well?
I’m with Villain82 on this one. Some posts sound like they are written by primary school kids with players veering from being total shit to world beaters within minutes.
Post by: paul_e on September 16, 2023, 05:30:52 PM
The only other observation is that there was a bit of criticism of Doug on the match thread that made no sense to me, I thought he was the best player on the pitch by a very long way.
Post by: The Edge on September 16, 2023, 05:31:59 PM
I'm in Dublin for the weekend and have been out all afternoon and got back about 5pm, jumped on here to see how the match went and it was 1-1, I wasn't happy but then saw the stoppage time was running at about 9 minutes. Where did it all come from? Was there a bad injury? The final result is going to make the pints better tonight.At 0-1 Sam Johnson went down clutching his calf after a massive slice of luck when Watkins hit the post and the rebound hit him on the head but went just wide of the post. He then played the rest of the game with no sign of injury so it must of been a miracle! Palace wasted a lot of time too which came back to bite them on the arse big time.
Post by: villadelph on September 16, 2023, 05:32:16 PM
Post by: AV84 on September 16, 2023, 05:32:45 PM
I'm still not sure if Duran is a 90 minutes option for us, but even trying something like Diaby and Zaniolo upfront, especially when Ramsey is back, might be an option.
Post by: passport1 on September 16, 2023, 05:34:52 PM
Post by: Axl Rose on September 16, 2023, 05:35:30 PM
I fully and completely back this manager after he took us to 7th in two thirds of last season.
Disappointing to see negativity creep into match threads when things go against us. We always have a chance of a turnaround with this manager.
Get a grip, mate.
It's a match thread on a football forum. What do you think is going to happen when we are losing at home to Palace, and not playing that well?
I’m with Villain82 on this one. Some posts sound like they are written by primary school kids with players veering from being total shit to world beaters within minutes.
I'm not.
He's talking out of his arse, I'm afraid.
But anyway, we won, it's not far off 2am here and I'm going to have a cigar on the balcony
Post by: paul_e on September 16, 2023, 05:35:40 PM
I've defended Watkins a lot, and I still think he brings more to the team than just scoring (or not scoring), but he does seem to be on a really bad run lately. I know some players have to play their way back into form but it's getting very close to the point now where it's hard to see why we wouldn't try something else up front.
I'm still not sure if Duran is a 90 minutes option for us, but even trying something like Diaby and Zaniolo upfront, especially when Ramsey is back, might be an option.
Poor with th eone-on-one he missed, unlucky with the one that came back off the post, superb run for the penalty. Exactly the sort of mixed bag performance that he gives when he's a bit out of nick.
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on September 16, 2023, 05:36:00 PM
Watched the penalty review again. What the fuck were they saying to the ref from VAR? It was a clear penalty, yet it seems they did everything possible to create doubt in the refs mind.
I really don't think it was a clear pen, if he gets a touch initially before he takes Watkins out then it isn't. I just don't think he quite gets that touch which is ultimately what he decided as well.
Post by: Bad English on September 16, 2023, 05:36:49 PM
Generally I don't pay too much attention to the whinging on the match thread, if people want to vent that way then fair enough but can the 'only 1 striker' thing be put to bed, Duran is a fantastic prospect who hasn't let us down and now has 3 goals from about 150minutes of game time this season.This is exactly the sort of analysis that is threatening to plague match threads. I put it to you, do we want to read this sort of thing during a game? Tsk!
The only other observation is that there was a bit of criticism of Doug on the match thread that made no sense to me, I thought he was the best player on the pitch by a very long way.
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 16, 2023, 05:37:19 PM
Watched the penalty review again. What the fuck were they saying to the ref from VAR? It was a clear penalty, yet it seems they did everything possible to create doubt in the refs mind.
I really don't think it was a clear pen, if he gets a touch initially before he takes Watkins out then it isn't. I just don't think he quite gets that touch which is ultimately what he decided as well.
It took an eternity and even included a lengthy monitor review. It had to be a clear mistake to overturn and it wasn’t even a mistake.
Post by: Chris_Jephcott on September 16, 2023, 05:38:07 PM
I've defended Watkins a lot, and I still think he brings more to the team than just scoring (or not scoring), but he does seem to be on a really bad run lately. I know some players have to play their way back into form but it's getting very close to the point now where it's hard to see why we wouldn't try something else up front.
I'm still not sure if Duran is a 90 minutes option for us, but even trying something like Diaby and Zaniolo upfront, especially when Ramsey is back, might be an option.
I agree entirely on that. Watkins gives constant effort and hard work to the team. There were a couple of times today when he was defending, launching a counter attack - it’s his usual commitment.
However, he is not a finisher. Even when he has been on form in the past, he’s missed a good few and has had a tendency to hit the post.
In short, I like him a lot. And I have tried to defend him, but I think given where we want to be, he’s not the answer. Sadly. I would have loved to him have been…
Maybe one day he’ll silence my doubts, but I still find myself doubting his ability to finish. In a 1v1, with a good premier league striker, the odds should always be in their favour. In Ollie’s case, I’d be favouring the keeper.
Duran is worth a punt, as is the aforementioned suggestion of Diaby and Zaniolo playing together with Ramsey just behind.
Post by: paul_e on September 16, 2023, 05:39:12 PM
Generally I don't pay too much attention to the whinging on the match thread, if people want to vent that way then fair enough but can the 'only 1 striker' thing be put to bed, Duran is a fantastic prospect who hasn't let us down and now has 3 goals from about 150minutes of game time this season.This is exactly the sort of analysis that is threatening to plague match threads. I put it to you. Do we want to read this sort of thing during a game?
The only other observation is that there was a bit of criticism of Doug on the match thread that made no sense to me, I thought he was the best player on the pitch by a very long way.
Good thing this isn't a match thread isn't it.
Post by: The Edge on September 16, 2023, 05:39:26 PM
Watched the penalty review again. What the fuck were they saying to the ref from VAR? It was a clear penalty, yet it seems they did everything possible to create doubt in the refs mind.I criticised the ref on the match thread but he did the unthinkable in the end by sticking to his original decision even after being sent to the screen to have a look so fair do's to him. I watched it in a bar in Portugal and couldn't believe the shite the co-commentator who I think was Paul Robinson (the ex keeper)came out with. Kept saying over and over that it was definitely not a pen and the ref "must surely" disallow the pen. Even the Welsh neutrals who were sat by me were all saying "what the fuck is he talking about?" It was a definite pen imo opinion but obviously I'm biased.
Post by: shipscat on September 16, 2023, 05:39:50 PM
Post by: Bad English on September 16, 2023, 05:41:25 PM
Generally I don't pay too much attention to the whinging on the match thread, if people want to vent that way then fair enough but can the 'only 1 striker' thing be put to bed, Duran is a fantastic prospect who hasn't let us down and now has 3 goals from about 150minutes of game time this season.This is exactly the sort of analysis that is threatening to plague match threads. I put it to you. Do we want to read this sort of thing during a game?
The only other observation is that there was a bit of criticism of Doug on the match thread that made no sense to me, I thought he was the best player on the pitch by a very long way.
Good thing this isn't a match thread isn't it.
You are missing the point; this is a post-match thread where you also get similar top-notch primary school ranting.
Post by: passport1 on September 16, 2023, 05:42:40 PM
Post by: Bad English on September 16, 2023, 05:44:13 PM
To me it was a typical post international break game . Players all over the world with little or no preparation looked out of sorts. I wouldn't judge anyone too harshly.
Yes, at times Emi looked like he was suffering from altitude sickness, jet-lag and the squits.
Post by: The Edge on September 16, 2023, 05:44:24 PM
It was a penalty in my humble opinion. It's a common misconception that getting a touch on the ball negates the penalty. It doesn't because he clearly bought down Ollie who could still have got to the ball and possibly scored.Watched the penalty review again. What the fuck were they saying to the ref from VAR? It was a clear penalty, yet it seems they did everything possible to create doubt in the refs mind.
I really don't think it was a clear pen, if he gets a touch initially before he takes Watkins out then it isn't. I just don't think he quite gets that touch which is ultimately what he decided as well.
It took an eternity and even included a lengthy monitor review. It had to be a clear mistake to overturn and it wasn’t even a mistake.
Post by: CT Villan on September 16, 2023, 05:44:55 PM
It took an eternity and even included a lengthy monitor review. It had to be a clear mistake to overturn and it wasn’t even a mistake.
Definitely wasn't 'a clear and obvious error' so no review necessary, typical of VAR though.
Wrt Diaby's offside goal - does anyone know if we are playing with the chipped balls so they know exactly when it was passed ? I guess that is also dependent on the VAR video having enough frames per second to match up the exact spot too.
Post by: AV84 on September 16, 2023, 05:45:06 PM
I've defended Watkins a lot, and I still think he brings more to the team than just scoring (or not scoring), but he does seem to be on a really bad run lately. I know some players have to play their way back into form but it's getting very close to the point now where it's hard to see why we wouldn't try something else up front.
I'm still not sure if Duran is a 90 minutes option for us, but even trying something like Diaby and Zaniolo upfront, especially when Ramsey is back, might be an option.
I agree entirely on that. Watkins gives constant effort and hard work to the team. There were a couple of times today when he was defending, launching a counter attack - it’s his usual commitment.
However, he is not a finisher. Even when he has been on form in the past, he’s missed a good few and has had a tendency to hit the post.
In short, I like him a lot. And I have tried to defend him, but I think given where we want to be, he’s not the answer. Sadly. I would have loved to him have been…
Maybe one day he’ll silence my doubts, but I still find myself doubting his ability to finish. In a 1v1, with a good premier league striker, the odds should always be in their favour. In Ollie’s case, I’d be favouring the keeper.
Duran is worth a punt, as is the aforementioned suggestion of Diaby and Zaniolo playing together with Ramsey just behind.
I think the European games might prove an excellent opportunity to try something else without blatantly dropping Watkins from the league starting lineup. He'll still have a chance to play himself back into form, but we can also give something else a good try midweek under the guise of giving him a rest.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 16, 2023, 05:45:16 PM
How many times, for example, have Man United swanned up to our place, looked shit, we've got ourselves in a position where we are winning, only to then see them win it at the death?
We were poor for most of the second half, but fuck who cares, we won.
Look forward to seeing Moreno back soon and hopefully JJ, we miss him.
Post by: The Edge on September 16, 2023, 05:47:24 PM
It's what we come on here for. It would be very boring if everyone agreed all the time.Generally I don't pay too much attention to the whinging on the match thread, if people want to vent that way then fair enough but can the 'only 1 striker' thing be put to bed, Duran is a fantastic prospect who hasn't let us down and now has 3 goals from about 150minutes of game time this season.This is exactly the sort of analysis that is threatening to plague match threads. I put it to you. Do we want to read this sort of thing during a game?
The only other observation is that there was a bit of criticism of Doug on the match thread that made no sense to me, I thought he was the best player on the pitch by a very long way.
Good thing this isn't a match thread isn't it.
You are missing the point; this is a post-match thread where you also get similar top-notch primary school ranting.
Post by: passport1 on September 16, 2023, 05:47:52 PM
To me it was a typical post international break game . Players all over the world with little or no preparation looked out of sorts. I wouldn't judge anyone too harshly.
Yes, at times Emi looked like he was suffering from altitude sickness, jet-lag and the squits.
What was it somebody said about a school child behaviour?
Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 16, 2023, 05:51:43 PM
It's what we come on here for. It would be very boring if everyone agreed all the time.Generally I don't pay too much attention to the whinging on the match thread, if people want to vent that way then fair enough but can the 'only 1 striker' thing be put to bed, Duran is a fantastic prospect who hasn't let us down and now has 3 goals from about 150minutes of game time this season.This is exactly the sort of analysis that is threatening to plague match threads. I put it to you. Do we want to read this sort of thing during a game?
The only other observation is that there was a bit of criticism of Doug on the match thread that made no sense to me, I thought he was the best player on the pitch by a very long way.
Good thing this isn't a match thread isn't it.
You are missing the point; this is a post-match thread where you also get similar top-notch primary school ranting.
No it fucking would not.
Post by: TonyD on September 16, 2023, 05:53:37 PM
Well said.I fully and completely back this manager after he took us to 7th in two thirds of last season.We were losing 0-1 on 87 minutes and totally toothless, not to say wank, in the second half. We're not going to sing, I mean post, "Let's all have a disco!".
Disappointing to see negativity creep into match threads when things go against us. We always have a chance of a turnaround with this manager.
Also, part of the fun of match threads is going totally OTT, you really shouldn't take them seriously.
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on September 16, 2023, 05:54:28 PM
Post by: AV82EC on September 16, 2023, 05:59:03 PM
Post by: AV84 on September 16, 2023, 05:59:53 PM
Interesting point from Emery after the match. We did, several times, take our early chances and effectively kill games off very early already this season. This match we played the same in the first half but didn't convert the chances we had.
I suppose the opposite is true too. We've conceded early goals and fallen out of games too easily too. So all in all I suppose we should be pleased with today's performance in that respect.
Post by: Ian. on September 16, 2023, 06:00:10 PM
Watched the penalty review again. What the fuck were they saying to the ref from VAR? It was a clear penalty, yet it seems they did everything possible to create doubt in the refs mind.
The commentary on the game I was watching kept harping on that he got the ball, but you can’t foul a player and then win the ball? Why it took so long to decide was ridiculous.
Post by: dave shelley on September 16, 2023, 06:00:27 PM
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 16, 2023, 06:00:40 PM
Post by: Bad English on September 16, 2023, 06:04:41 PM
Ner, ner, ner,To me it was a typical post international break game . Players all over the world with little or no preparation looked out of sorts. I wouldn't judge anyone too harshly.
Yes, at times Emi looked like he was suffering from altitude sickness, jet-lag and the squits.
What was it somebody said about a school child behaviour?
*Does Emi cock thrust with oven glove.*
Post by: kipeye on September 16, 2023, 06:04:43 PM
Fixed.What a strange game.
Should have been out of sight by half tame.
Looked dead and buried in the second tack.
Then somehow bounced back.
Palace are shite. Yemall right.
I think Kamara needs bender.
Pau can pass but not much of a defender.
Zani could be a superstar.
And Bailey did ok. Carf. Carf.
Doesn't even rhyme.
Post by: AV84 on September 16, 2023, 06:05:06 PM
Post by: The Edge on September 16, 2023, 06:05:40 PM
Yes it fucking wouldIt's what we come on here for. It would be very boring if everyone agreed all the time.Generally I don't pay too much attention to the whinging on the match thread, if people want to vent that way then fair enough but can the 'only 1 striker' thing be put to bed, Duran is a fantastic prospect who hasn't let us down and now has 3 goals from about 150minutes of game time this season.This is exactly the sort of analysis that is threatening to plague match threads. I put it to you. Do we want to read this sort of thing during a game?
The only other observation is that there was a bit of criticism of Doug on the match thread that made no sense to me, I thought he was the best player on the pitch by a very long way.
Good thing this isn't a match thread isn't it.
You are missing the point; this is a post-match thread where you also get similar top-notch primary school ranting.
No it fucking would not.
Post by: supertom on September 16, 2023, 06:07:27 PM
VAR should never take as long as it has at times this season. Clear and obvious should make these decisions relatively simple. If they can't be done within a couple of minutes either it's not clear and obvious or (like today) the officials don't have a clear understanding of the laws.
Post by: Tayls_7 on September 16, 2023, 06:08:24 PM
I hope Woy is ok. I think he can go into that Sir Graham and Sir Bobby group of managers who are loved and respected across the football world.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on September 16, 2023, 06:11:34 PM
Post by: Risso on September 16, 2023, 06:14:35 PM
I fully and completely back this manager after he took us to 7th in two thirds of last season.
Disappointing to see negativity creep into match threads when things go against us. We always have a chance of a turnaround with this manager.
Get a grip, mate.
It's a match thread on a football forum. What do you think is going to happen when we are losing at home to Palace, and not playing that well?
I’m with Villain82 on this one. Some posts sound like they are written by primary school kids with players veering from being total shit to world beaters within minutes.
I'm not.
He's talking out of his arse, I'm afraid.
But anyway, we won, it's not far off 2am here and I'm going to have a cigar on the balcony
Agreed. I'd much rather read the opinions of people concerning the game in the match and post match threads (whether positive, negative or indifferent), than posters criticising others for daring to say that we possibly weren't playing that well. There's no badges given out for being Bestest Fan of the Month that I'm aware of.
Post by: frank black on September 16, 2023, 06:15:20 PM
But we should’ve been out of sight.
Loved it when the time wasting bit em on the bum!
Post by: not3bad on September 16, 2023, 06:16:10 PM
I have to admit my corner of the Lower Holte were giving up hope when Duran popped up with that belter. After that there was a feeling we could go on and win it, especially with all that injury time to come. In the end it was a win we had to fight for and a great feeling. UTV!!
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on September 16, 2023, 06:16:28 PM
Unai needs to get the players especially in midfield playing in their best positions or bench them. He takes so much away from their capabilities when they are played out of position.
Delighted for Duran. That was a bit special.
Post by: paul_e on September 16, 2023, 06:17:48 PM
Agreed. I'd much rather read the opinions of people concerning the game in the match and post match threads (whether positive, negative or indifferent), than posters criticising others for daring to say that we possibly weren't playing that well. There's no badges given out for being Bestest Fan of the Month that I'm aware of.
Sorry but that's utter bullshit. You regularly have a go at people who post in those threads where it doesn't match what you say. Normally someone saying something positive when you've decided everything is shit, you've done it to me many times over the last few years.
Post by: OCD on September 16, 2023, 06:17:50 PM
Side note, probably said many times but games going on this long is ridiculous. Obviously, they just needed enough for us to spank in the third...obviously. But that was enough.
VAR should never take as long as it has at times this season. Clear and obvious should make these decisions relatively simple. If they can't be done within a couple of minutes either it's not clear and obvious or (like today) the officials don't have a clear understanding of the laws.
Yep. 9 minutes of injury time turned into 16 and a half minutes injury time without there being a bad injury. More than an entire half of extra time. They really need to enforce that it needs to be clear and obvious and not re-refereeing the game, like they said they wouldn't do.
Post by: London Villan on September 16, 2023, 06:18:33 PM
Watching Duran's goal, and it is a brilliant goal, and I get why he'd want to celebrate it, but I notice Watkins goes straight for the ball in the net, presumably to try to get the game restarted as quickly as possible. Not a complaint against Duran, but it's always interesting to see the more experienced players reactions in these situations.
They were going mad at him on the bench to get on with the game.
Post by: paul_e on September 16, 2023, 06:19:42 PM
Side note, probably said many times but games going on this long is ridiculous. Obviously, they just needed enough for us to spank in the third...obviously. But that was enough.
VAR should never take as long as it has at times this season. Clear and obvious should make these decisions relatively simple. If they can't be done within a couple of minutes either it's not clear and obvious or (like today) the officials don't have a clear understanding of the laws.
Yep. 9 minutes of injury time turned into 16 and a half minutes injury time without there being a bad injury. More than an entire half of extra time. They really need to enforce that it needs to be clear and obvious and not re-refereeing the game, like they said they wouldn't do.
to be fair their centre half was down for a couple of minutes.
Post by: RamboandBruno on September 16, 2023, 06:19:58 PM
Just some minor observations, Dougie was class all game, Kamara played well too but right call to take him off as no need for a 6 with their tactics of sitting deep. Dougs composure for the penalty!!
McGinn struggled. Cash struggled in the more advanced position, he just couldn’t beat their full back, who played well. Digne slowed the game down too much and it will be good to get Moreno back in.
I don’t understand the criticism of Torres by a couple of posters. He got caught for pace for their goal, but someone else (can’t remember who) had lost it to put him in a difficult position. Even then Emi gets their first if he hadn’t slipped. Torres distribution was first class and his defending was generally good.
Konsa for me, along with Dougie, MoM, just superb all game.
Up front Diaby did well, Watkins has great movement and scores if he’s not brought down, lovely chip that was unfortunate not to go in. He’s low on confidence and once he gets one, he will go on a run. Great finish by Duran, complete wild card. Zaniolo did well if a little greedy sometimes, Bailey did really well when he came on.
Tielemans struggled at first, but was instrumental in the 2nd and 3rd with great through balls.
Someone else pointed out the pre Emery Villa lose that 0-1 or 0-2, but Emery and the players find a way.
Finally, Eze is a lovely player for them.
Post by: Risso on September 16, 2023, 06:20:27 PM
Agreed. I'd much rather read the opinions of people concerning the game in the match and post match threads (whether positive, negative or indifferent), than posters criticising others for daring to say that we possibly weren't playing that well. There's no badges given out for being Bestest Fan of the Month that I'm aware of.
Sorry but that's utter bullshit. You regularly have a go at people who post in those threads where it doesn't match what you say. Normally someone saying something positive when you've decided everything is shit, you've done it to me many times over the last few years.
Disagreeing with somebody's view isn't the same as saying that they don't have the right to say it.
Post by: Risso on September 16, 2023, 06:20:57 PM
Let's hope the incoming injury time fucks Palace.
Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 16, 2023, 06:21:25 PM
Post by: PaulTheVillan on September 16, 2023, 06:22:18 PM
That’ll do.
Duran showing Watkins how to find the net in the league.
Post by: OCD on September 16, 2023, 06:22:54 PM
Side note, probably said many times but games going on this long is ridiculous. Obviously, they just needed enough for us to spank in the third...obviously. But that was enough.
VAR should never take as long as it has at times this season. Clear and obvious should make these decisions relatively simple. If they can't be done within a couple of minutes either it's not clear and obvious or (like today) the officials don't have a clear understanding of the laws.
Yep. 9 minutes of injury time turned into 16 and a half minutes injury time without there being a bad injury. More than an entire half of extra time. They really need to enforce that it needs to be clear and obvious and not re-refereeing the game, like they said they wouldn't do.
to be fair their centre half was down for a couple of minutes.
But not 7 and a half.
Post by: algy on September 16, 2023, 06:23:25 PM
Do it in the style of a club singer, Reeves & Mortimer style. It's alright, first verse needs a bit of work though.What a strange game.
Should have been out of sight by half time.
Looked dead and buried in the second half.
Then somehow bounced back.
Palace are shite.
I think Kamara needs benching.
Pau can pass but not much of a defender.
Zani could be a superstar.
And Bailey did ok. Cough.
Doesn't even rhyme.
Post by: paul_e on September 16, 2023, 06:23:30 PM
Agreed. I'd much rather read the opinions of people concerning the game in the match and post match threads (whether positive, negative or indifferent), than posters criticising others for daring to say that we possibly weren't playing that well. There's no badges given out for being Bestest Fan of the Month that I'm aware of.
Sorry but that's utter bullshit. You regularly have a go at people who post in those threads where it doesn't match what you say. Normally someone saying something positive when you've decided everything is shit, you've done it to me many times over the last few years.
Disagreeing with somebody's view isn't the same as saying that they don't have the right to say it.
Agreed. I'd much rather read the opinions of people concerning the game in the match and post match threads (whether positive, negative or indifferent), than posters criticising others for daring to say that we possibly weren't playing that well. There's no badges given out for being Bestest Fan of the Month that I'm aware of.
Sorry but that's utter bullshit. You regularly have a go at people who post in those threads where it doesn't match what you say. Normally someone saying something positive when you've decided everything is shit, you've done it to me many times over the last few years.
Disagreeing with somebody's view isn't the same as saying that they don't have the right to say it.
You'll have to explain who has said you don't have the right to whinge like a toddler then because I can't find anyone saying that, just people criticising it.
Post by: jwarry on September 16, 2023, 06:24:41 PM
Woosh, just coming down from that mad adrenaline rush. Frustration to elation and all that.
Just some minor observations, Dougie was class all game, Kamara played well too but right call to take him off as no need for a 6 with their tactics of sitting deep. Dougs composure for the penalty!!
McGinn struggled. Cash struggled in the more advanced position, he just couldn’t beat their full back, who played well. Digne slowed the game down too much and it will be good to get Moreno back in.
I don’t understand the criticism of Torres by a couple of posters. He got caught for pace for their goal, but someone else (can’t remember who) had lost it to put him in a difficult position. Even then Emi gets their first if he hadn’t slipped. Torres distribution was first class and his defending was generally good.
Konsa for me, along with Dougie, MoM, just superb all game.
Up front Diaby did well, Watkins has great movement and scores if he’s not brought down, lovely chip that was unfortunate not to go in. He’s low on confidence and once he gets one, he will go on a run. Great finish by Duran, complete wild card. Zaniolo did well if a little greedy sometimes, Bailey did really well when he came on.
Tielemans struggled at first, but was instrumental in the 2nd and 3rd with great through balls.
Someone else pointed out the pre Emery Villa lose that 0-1 or 0-2, but Emery and the players find a way.
Finally, Eze is a lovely player for them.
Bloody hell I feel dizzy after reading that!
Post by: olaftab on September 16, 2023, 06:29:48 PM
Anyway, thank me later.Thank you. I was just happy to have equalised.Let's hope the incoming injury time fucks Palace.
Post by: Percy McCarthy on September 16, 2023, 06:34:09 PM
It was a penalty in my humble opinion. It's a common misconception that getting a touch on the ball negates the penalty. It doesn't because he clearly bought down Ollie who could still have got to the ball and possibly scored.Watched the penalty review again. What the fuck were they saying to the ref from VAR? It was a clear penalty, yet it seems they did everything possible to create doubt in the refs mind.
I really don't think it was a clear pen, if he gets a touch initially before he takes Watkins out then it isn't. I just don't think he quite gets that touch which is ultimately what he decided as well.
It took an eternity and even included a lengthy monitor review. It had to be a clear mistake to overturn and it wasn’t even a mistake.
Exactly. How we laughed at the noses who similarly misunderstood a foul on Gabby backaday.
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on September 16, 2023, 06:34:46 PM
https://youtu.be/kFr_hFklf5s?si=4OaWjUdVSnGfm_xB
Post by: clash city rocker on September 16, 2023, 06:35:20 PM
Post by: Bad English on September 16, 2023, 06:35:20 PM
Post by: olaftab on September 16, 2023, 06:35:21 PM
Totally elated.
Post by: 85kota on September 16, 2023, 06:35:48 PM
Post by: Clampy on September 16, 2023, 06:35:58 PM
Post by: TonyD on September 16, 2023, 06:36:42 PM
Post by: RamboandBruno on September 16, 2023, 06:37:22 PM
Woosh, just coming down from that mad adrenaline rush. Frustration to elation and all that.
Just some minor observations, Dougie was class all game, Kamara played well too but right call to take him off as no need for a 6 with their tactics of sitting deep. Dougs composure for the penalty!!
McGinn struggled. Cash struggled in the more advanced position, he just couldn’t beat their full back, who played well. Digne slowed the game down too much and it will be good to get Moreno back in.
I don’t understand the criticism of Torres by a couple of posters. He got caught for pace for their goal, but someone else (can’t remember who) had lost it to put him in a difficult position. Even then Emi gets their first if he hadn’t slipped. Torres distribution was first class and his defending was generally good.
Konsa for me, along with Dougie, MoM, just superb all game.
Up front Diaby did well, Watkins has great movement and scores if he’s not brought down, lovely chip that was unfortunate not to go in. He’s low on confidence and once he gets one, he will go on a run. Great finish by Duran, complete wild card. Zaniolo did well if a little greedy sometimes, Bailey did really well when he came on.
Tielemans struggled at first, but was instrumental in the 2nd and 3rd with great through balls.
Someone else pointed out the pre Emery Villa lose that 0-1 or 0-2, but Emery and the players find a way.
Finally, Eze is a lovely player for them.
Bloody hell I feel dizzy after reading that!
Yea to be fair I do feel like Ive just come down of a huge wrap of speed after that, so my post probably reflects that.
Post by: paul_e on September 16, 2023, 06:39:02 PM
I love whingeing like a toddler on these threads and reading others doing likewise. But we have to watch out for the speccy prefect types.
I know, those people who get in a sulk because someone has posted about a goal before they've seen it are a massive problem.
Post by: TonyD on September 16, 2023, 06:39:27 PM
I love whingeing like a toddler on these threads and reading others doing likewise. But we have to watch out for the speccy prefect types.Yep grab by tie and put head down toilet.
Post by: Bad English on September 16, 2023, 06:41:34 PM
Post by: Jane on September 16, 2023, 06:42:07 PM
Post by: Bad English on September 16, 2023, 06:42:41 PM
Paul you are so entertaining. I shall look you up for a pint next time I'm over.I love whingeing like a toddler on these threads and reading others doing likewise. But we have to watch out for the speccy prefect types.
I know, those people who get in a sulk because someone has posted about a goal before they've seen it are a massive problem.
And even then, I can get in a sulk about PWS posting 6 (SIX) minutes before I see it if I like. Don't like it? Tough tit! Just like he said to me. I can live with early goal announcements just like I can live with climate change. Raspberry!
Post by: Legion on September 16, 2023, 06:43:18 PM
Post by: Small Rodent on September 16, 2023, 06:45:32 PM
Blimey, there's some bickering & point scoring going on today!!
Jane happy, Cheetah happy…Tarzan happy!
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 16, 2023, 06:45:50 PM
I love whingeing like a toddler on these threads and reading others doing likewise. But we have to watch out for the speccy prefect types.
Irrational behaviour watching Villa is cathartic.
Post by: RamboandBruno on September 16, 2023, 06:50:06 PM
I love whingeing like a toddler on these threads and reading others doing likewise. But we have to watch out for the speccy prefect types.
Irrational behaviour watching Villa is cathartic.
Visceral shouting after each goal is extremely cathartic as well
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 16, 2023, 06:50:40 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on September 16, 2023, 06:52:36 PM
Watching Duran's goal, and it is a brilliant goal, and I get why he'd want to celebrate it, but I notice Watkins goes straight for the ball in the net, presumably to try to get the game restarted as quickly as possible. Not a complaint against Duran, but it's always interesting to see the more experienced players reactions in these situations.
They were going mad at him on the bench to get on with the game.
And dig them out of a hole? Emery has to take his share of the blame for the average performance we put in today and credit for the subs.
We had all summer to replace Young and what did they do; nada. I think a proper right sided wing back will be top of our shopping list come January. For all his effort Cash is no wing back. He looked far more comfortable dropping back when Bailey came on.
Post by: Richard E on September 16, 2023, 06:53:12 PM
Post by: clash city rocker on September 16, 2023, 07:00:09 PM
Just seen Duran’s goal again online and it was even more of a peach than it looked in the flesh.
Class
Post by: Somniloquism on September 16, 2023, 07:01:25 PM
Post by: Bad English on September 16, 2023, 07:02:32 PM
Post by: AV84 on September 16, 2023, 07:04:25 PM
Watching Duran's goal, and it is a brilliant goal, and I get why he'd want to celebrate it, but I notice Watkins goes straight for the ball in the net, presumably to try to get the game restarted as quickly as possible. Not a complaint against Duran, but it's always interesting to see the more experienced players reactions in these situations.
They were going mad at him on the bench to get on with the game.
And dig them out of a hole? Emery has to take his share of the blame for the average performance we put in today and credit for the subs.
We had all summer to replace Young and what did they do; nada. I think a proper right sided wing back will be top of our shopping list come January. For all his effort Cash is no wing back. He looked far more comfortable dropping back when Bailey came on.
Have you quoted the wrong post there? Your reply seems completely unrelated.
Post by: Ian. on September 16, 2023, 07:04:32 PM
Just seen Duran’s goal again online and it was even more of a peach than it looked in the flesh.
Yeah me too. His first touch and technique was outstanding.
Post by: jwarry on September 16, 2023, 07:07:20 PM
I was shocked when the ref was sent to review it on screen and he still gave it. Correct decision based on the one angle on Sky. However, although I suspect Luiz would still have scored a retake, Diaby was well encroaching when Luiz scored and could / should have had it called back. He is too pacey for his own good (plus Luiz did one of those shitty stutter kicks).
Was looking at the Palace fans forum and they seem to be accepting it because the rules have changed. News to me !?!
Post by: jwarry on September 16, 2023, 07:11:44 PM
Watching Duran's goal, and it is a brilliant goal, and I get why he'd want to celebrate it, but I notice Watkins goes straight for the ball in the net, presumably to try to get the game restarted as quickly as possible. Not a complaint against Duran, but it's always interesting to see the more experienced players reactions in these situations.
They were going mad at him on the bench to get on with the game.
And dig them out of a hole? Emery has to take his share of the blame for the average performance we put in today and credit for the subs.
We had all summer to replace Young and what did they do; nada. I think a proper right sided wing back will be top of our shopping list come January. For all his effort Cash is no wing back. He looked far more comfortable dropping back when Bailey came on.
I’m confused, does Unai take the blame for a poor performance or credit for the subs turning it around?
Post by: Bad English on September 16, 2023, 07:12:17 PM
*Except when we get the decision. Obviously.
Post by: LeeB on September 16, 2023, 07:14:33 PM
Post by: Astnor on September 16, 2023, 07:16:56 PM
I totally agree with this about both Emery and Cash. As a telly commentator said about Cash (at Anfield - I think) "I dont think he has the footwork ..". If we had not got the penalty and lost the game questions could have been raised about Emery s work for preparing the team and squad for this season IMO (yes its a couple of IF s there but was close to a worrying defat today at home by a Palace team without three or four of their best players).Watching Duran's goal, and it is a brilliant goal, and I get why he'd want to celebrate it, but I notice Watkins goes straight for the ball in the net, presumably to try to get the game restarted as quickly as possible. Not a complaint against Duran, but it's always interesting to see the more experienced players reactions in these situations.
They were going mad at him on the bench to get on with the game.
And dig them out of a hole? Emery has to take his share of the blame for the average performance we put in today and credit for the subs.
We had all summer to replace Young and what did they do; nada. I think a proper right sided wing back will be top of our shopping list come January. For all his effort Cash is no wing back. He looked far more comfortable dropping back when Bailey came on.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on September 16, 2023, 07:18:40 PM
Love an injury time clincher to make it safe as well.
Post by: langleylions on September 16, 2023, 07:22:30 PM
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on September 16, 2023, 07:27:19 PM
I have to admit all the umming and ahhing added to the drama in the stadium. The roar when he still gave it. Then "oh shit, we've still got to score it".
Love an injury time clincher to make it safe as well.
I love an injury time clencher.
Post by: Clampy on September 16, 2023, 07:28:18 PM
Post by: Matt C on September 16, 2023, 07:28:56 PM
Unai’s reaction when Cash smashed the ball out of play right before our third goal was priceless. The fury. Cash will hear about it.
That made me laugh too, he was livid. Cash will be hearing about that one on Monday.
Post by: frankmosswasmyuncle on September 16, 2023, 07:29:03 PM
Love it.What a strange game.
Should have been out of sight by half time.
Looked dead and buried in the second half.
Then somehow bounced back.
Palace are shite.
I think Kamara needs benching.
Pau can pass but not much of a defender.
Zani could be a superstar.
And Bailey did ok. Cough.
Doesn't even rhyme.
Exactly what I thought! :-)
Post by: RamboandBruno on September 16, 2023, 07:29:54 PM
ffs can we just stop with the ripple of questioning the best manager we have had for nearly 30 years 🙄He’s not above criticism, but some people love looking for problems….but if we didn’t win, we did like. We haven’t lost at home since February…we play averagely and still win.
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 16, 2023, 07:30:26 PM
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on September 16, 2023, 07:31:39 PM
Watching Duran's goal, and it is a brilliant goal, and I get why he'd want to celebrate it, but I notice Watkins goes straight for the ball in the net, presumably to try to get the game restarted as quickly as possible. Not a complaint against Duran, but it's always interesting to see the more experienced players reactions in these situations.
They were going mad at him on the bench to get on with the game.
And dig them out of a hole? Emery has to take his share of the blame for the average performance we put in today and credit for the subs.
We had all summer to replace Young and what did they do; nada. I think a proper right sided wing back will be top of our shopping list come January. For all his effort Cash is no wing back. He looked far more comfortable dropping back when Bailey came on.
I’m confused, does Unai take the blame for a poor performance or credit for the subs turning it around?
Both. I thought it was obvious.
Post by: Meanwood Villa on September 16, 2023, 07:31:57 PM
He took an absolute age over that pen when he didn't need to. I doubt it would have even gone to VAR at somewhere like Old Trafford or Man City.
True
Post by: rougegorge on September 16, 2023, 07:33:57 PM
Torres was exposed for their goal and then they managed it pretty well with the time wasting and breaking through their out ball to Eze (we kept giving him too much room to receive).
In real time, I thought it was a penalty, but that was from some distance. The longer the VAR went on, the more likely I actually thought the ref might stick with the decision.
Unai complimented the support today, but it was subdued like the players in the second half until we equalised.
Overall, we deserved to win and we had far more shots and possession than they did.
Post by: Clampy on September 16, 2023, 07:35:01 PM
Post by: Astnor on September 16, 2023, 07:36:32 PM
He took an absolute age over that pen when he didn't need to. I doubt it would have even gone to VAR at somewhere like Old Trafford or Man City.How come VAR decided that the referee had to go over and look at it again? I thought that only happened if a clear and obvious fault had been done.
Post by: RamboandBruno on September 16, 2023, 07:37:24 PM
Watching Duran's goal, and it is a brilliant goal, and I get why he'd want to celebrate it, but I notice Watkins goes straight for the ball in the net, presumably to try to get the game restarted as quickly as possible. Not a complaint against Duran, but it's always interesting to see the more experienced players reactions in these situations.
They were going mad at him on the bench to get on with the game.
And dig them out of a hole? Emery has to take his share of the blame for the average performance we put in today and credit for the subs.
We had all summer to replace Young and what did they do; nada. I think a proper right sided wing back will be top of our shopping list come January. For all his effort Cash is no wing back. He looked far more comfortable dropping back when Bailey came on.
I’m confused, does Unai take the blame for a poor performance or credit for the subs turning it around?
Both. I thought it was obvious.
We were the better side first half and if Ollie and Cash had put those really good chances away, it would of been business as usual like Bournemouth, Forest, Fulham etc at the tail end of last season. Not amazing performances like Newcastle at home, but almost boringly competent.
They got a very early second half goal after Emi’s slip, which turns the game on its head.
Im not an evangelist but I don’t really see too much criticism for Unai in this, only recognising what needed to be done and making some changes of players and tactics that paid dividends.
Post by: Goldenballs on September 16, 2023, 07:40:26 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 16, 2023, 07:40:45 PM
Im surprised at how many people have said we were poor. I thought we were alright overall. It's not as if we didnt create create anything. We had a wobble early in the second half but that was about it. Id say it was more frustrating that we hadn't scored than poor.
I agree with this, I think it's why I've been annoyed on this thread. We weren't poor other than for a short-ish spell after they scored from nothing and we seemed to not know what we wanted to do to get back into it.
Post by: AV84 on September 16, 2023, 07:43:55 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on September 16, 2023, 07:45:04 PM
Im surprised at how many people have said we were poor. I thought we were alright overall. It's not as if we didnt create create anything. We had a wobble early in the second half but that was about it. Id say it was more frustrating that we hadn't scored than poor.
I agree with this, I think it's why I've been annoyed on this thread. We weren't poor other than for a short-ish spell after they scored from nothing and we seemed to not know what we wanted to do to get back into it.
I agree. No way we deserved to lose that.
Post by: Astnor on September 16, 2023, 07:45:40 PM
Post by: Percy McCarthy on September 16, 2023, 07:45:44 PM
I fully and completely back this manager after he took us to 7th in two thirds of last season.
Disappointing to see negativity creep into match threads when things go against us. We always have a chance of a turnaround with this manager.
Get a grip, mate.
It's a match thread on a football forum. What do you think is going to happen when we are losing at home to Palace, and not playing that well?
I’m with Villain82 on this one. Some posts sound like they are written by primary school kids with players veering from being total shit to world beaters within minutes.
I'm not.
He's talking out of his arse, I'm afraid.
But anyway, we won, it's not far off 2am here and I'm going to have a cigar on the balcony
Agreed. I'd much rather read the opinions of people concerning the game in the match and post match threads (whether positive, negative or indifferent), than posters criticising others for daring to say that we possibly weren't playing that well. There's no badges given out for being Bestest Fan of the Month that I'm aware of.
Twitter is full if that shit - comments on how people support the team rather than just opinions on the game itself. Does my crust in.
Post by: N'ZMAV on September 16, 2023, 07:46:30 PM
Referee was poor today.
Watkins and McGinn had poor games.
Cash had so much space down that right in the first half, needs to learn to whip one in first time.
Pau Torres needs a rocket up his arse some times, but man he can pass a ball.
Overall a 6/10 sort of performance. Would have settled for a point at 80 mins so chuffed with a win.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on September 16, 2023, 07:55:10 PM
Im not an evangelist but I don’t really see too much criticism for Unai in this, only recognising what needed to be done and making some changes of players and tactics that paid dividends.
Unai is going to have to find a way to play teams like Palace who won't play our game and refuse to press, instead getting bodies behind the ball. Palace weren't the first and most certainly won't be the last, even Hibs did it with some success at Villa Park.
As you rightly said in a previous post to the "Mommy! A nasty man is saying bad things about Unai" comment, 'He’s not above criticism, but some people love looking for problems', change 'problems' for 'solutions' and you're pretty much there. As you well know, it's a football forum where we discuss erm.. football. Wanting Villa to improve shouldn't be looked down on. Opinions, eh? ;)
Post by: The Edge on September 16, 2023, 07:57:19 PM
Two great balls from Tielemans, a game-changing substitution. Bailey involved again, good to have competition for starting places.I've never seen Tielemans knackers so I couldn't possibly comment 😅
Post by: Daley’s dreads on September 16, 2023, 07:57:50 PM
Watkins will knock a few in soon and Torres will end up being brilliant once he adapts.
Post by: KevinGage on September 16, 2023, 08:00:52 PM
Accept it. It’s what actual big clubs do.
Post by: RamboandBruno on September 16, 2023, 08:00:54 PM
Im not an evangelist but I don’t really see too much criticism for Unai in this, only recognising what needed to be done and making some changes of players and tactics that paid dividends.
Unai is going to have to find a way to play teams like Palace who won't play our game and refuse to press, instead getting bodies behind the ball. Palace weren't the first and most certainly won't be the last, even Hibs did it with some success at Villa Park.
As you rightly said in a previous post to the "Mommy! A nasty man is saying bad things about Unai" comment, 'He’s not above criticism, but some people love looking for problems', change 'problems' for 'solutions' and you're pretty much there. As you well know, it's a football forum where we discuss erm.. football. Wanting Villa to improve shouldn't be looked down on. Opinions, eh? ;)
Absolutely, we all want Villa to improve and nothing wrong with divergent opinions at all. Mine diverge from yours on this, I think the manager recognised what needed to be done and did it. If we don’t completely agree on this, fine, alls well in the world.
Post by: Risso on September 16, 2023, 08:03:05 PM
1-0 down playing pish = 3-1 win.
Accept it. It’s what actual big clubs do.
Although that's only the second time we've come back to win after falling behind under Emery. (To be fair though, it's because most of the time we haven't fallen behind).
Post by: LeeB on September 16, 2023, 08:03:11 PM
I think it will have a massive impact on confidence where when we're on similar situations in future we won't panic,
And Diaby is weapons-grade good, he looks an absolute steal at £50m.
Post by: The Edge on September 16, 2023, 08:03:41 PM
Palace are horrible time-wasting negative wankers.I agree about the ref. His decision not to give Dacoure a yellow card when he scythed down Dougie from behind was ludicrous. It was as blatant a booking as your ever likely to see. He did however redeem himself somewhat when he refused VARS attempt to disallow the penalty.
Referee was poor today.
Watkins and McGinn had poor games.
Cash had so much space down that right in the first half, needs to learn to whip one in first time.
Pau Torres needs a rocket up his arse some times, but man he can pass a ball.
Overall a 6/10 sort of performance. Would have settled for a point at 80 mins so chuffed with a win.
Post by: paul_e on September 16, 2023, 08:04:42 PM
Im not an evangelist but I don’t really see too much criticism for Unai in this, only recognising what needed to be done and making some changes of players and tactics that paid dividends.
Unai is going to have to find a way to play teams like Palace who won't play our game and refuse to press, instead getting bodies behind the ball. Palace weren't the first and most certainly won't be the last, even Hibs did it with some success at Villa Park.
As you rightly said in a previous post to the "Mommy! A nasty man is saying bad things about Unai" comment, 'He’s not above criticism, but some people love looking for problems', change 'problems' for 'solutions' and you're pretty much there. As you well know, it's a football forum where we discuss erm.. football. Wanting Villa to improve shouldn't be looked down on. Opinions, eh? ;)
But he did find a way to play again them, we could easily have been 2-3 up by half time. We were the better team until they scored and their goal had a huge element of good fortune about it. From there we used the bench and won the game. What more should he have done to avoid criticism?
Post by: LeeB on September 16, 2023, 08:09:03 PM
You carn tess with Emery, we're going to earn so many points we wouldn't have with a mere mortal in charge.
Post by: London Villan on September 16, 2023, 08:09:40 PM
Post by: LeeB on September 16, 2023, 08:15:12 PM
No panic from Emery on the bench either. Calming things down, very much ‘don’t panic’. The only time he got animated was when he told Dean Henderson to come on for Johnstone.
And when Cash spooned that clearance out for a throw.
There was another point in the ame second half when a defender lumped it and the crowd around me moaned because he could've bought it down, and I thought this is good, we're setting the bar higher as fans.
That shit's in the past, it's not the Villa way now.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 16, 2023, 08:15:35 PM
Post by: LeeB on September 16, 2023, 08:18:32 PM
We scored 3, dominated shots and possession, hit the post, had one disallowed, wasted some good chances, and only conceded because Emi turned into Slippy G. It's bizarre that I feel we both dodged a bullet and deserved to win 3-1.
In the past, that bullet would always hit the mark. It's muscle memory.
Post by: Mister E on September 16, 2023, 08:28:35 PM
We had all summer to replace Young and what did they do; nada. I think a proper right sided wing back will be top of our shopping list come January. For all his effort Cash is no wing back. He looked far more comfortable dropping back when Bailey came on.Totally. His inability to get to the byeline today was soooo frustrating.
Post by: Ads on September 16, 2023, 08:31:09 PM
We dominated the ball, but didn't create enough. That said, Watkins ought to have scored, but when Diaby (wonderful touch and finish) I had an awful feeling I'd see the game before. So it nearly proved!
Cash too ponderous for me despite the endless space he had to play in. He seemed reticent to commit their left back and pop a ball in. Zaniolo has some nice touches about him. Torres range of passing is excellent.
Kamara looked a little lightweight to me at times today. He's not in any form at present and I wonder if with JJ back soon, Dougie may fill in as the defensive player.
Incredibly sloppy goal, first to give up possession so cheaply, Torres too easily turned and then a slip.
Lots of huffing and puffing, Johnstone (cheating Stripey bastard) gets so lucky with the Watkins effort off the bar, but we didn't create enough. Then an absolute worlide, truly fantastic volley and finish from Duran and boom, on we march. Surprised the ref kept his bottle and gave us the pen and the rest they say is history.
We weren't awful, first half in particular, but we were massively frustrating. Lovely ball from Tielemans for the penalty and it was nice that all 3 subs contributed.
Villa Park, is a fortress.
Post by: Mister E on September 16, 2023, 08:33:38 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 16, 2023, 08:36:49 PM
I thought Tielemans added lots to our game, after having taken a few minutes to get into it. He's a class act, and I hope that we make the most of his talents.
I said in the asummer that I could see a fair few games where we'd end up with Dougie and Tielemans as the 2 to give us a bit of extra creativity and today showed where that will help us. I agree that Tielemans added something going forward and that was a big part of how we got on top of them.
Post by: SamTheMouse on September 16, 2023, 08:39:18 PM
Duran saved our arses (and well done to the lad, delighted for him), although for me it was Bailey who made the biggest difference. As someone else has said - RCF I think - Cash could perhaps be upgraded, at least in terms of his attacking play (and notwithstanding his recent goals). He was in great positions so many times in the first half, basically facing up a defender more or less one on one, and always had to turn back. I kept thinking that if Moreno was in those positions, he'd have produced something. That right-hand side was our main attacking outlet, but didn't really deliver.
Also, Torres scares the shit out of me. It looks to me like he needs to hit the gym and start lifting some weights, but maybe I've been spoiled watching the man mountain that is Mings in that role for so long.
Anyway, we won, and all is well in the world for at least a few more days.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 16, 2023, 08:41:17 PM
Tielemans pass for the last goal was great but I doubt anyone other than Diaby was chasing that down. He's so quick.
It was an excellent pass.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 16, 2023, 08:45:46 PM
Post by: AV84 on September 16, 2023, 08:53:02 PM
Watching Duran's goal, and it is a brilliant goal, and I get why he'd want to celebrate it, but I notice Watkins goes straight for the ball in the net, presumably to try to get the game restarted as quickly as possible. Not a complaint against Duran, but it's always interesting to see the more experienced players reactions in these situations.
They were going mad at him on the bench to get on with the game.
Just watching the Spurs goals and Richarlison, who would have every reason to celebrate that equaliser, picked the ball up and was marshaling everyone back to kick off again.
Again, it's not a criticism of Duran, to be clear, it's just interesting to see the different mentalities.
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 16, 2023, 08:56:30 PM
Thought the ref was awful up to the 90th minute. He books SJM fair enough but then ignores blatant and identical Palace fouls. Hughes had a good game for them but he did exactly what McGinn had done 10 minutes before but stayed down injured and avoided a yellow.
Same for Ayew who actually was injured.
Even Johnstone was at it as I don't think I've ever seen a keeper go down with cramp before although of course if we're 1 up with 10 minutes left at Chelsea next week Emi will be doing the same so can't criticise too much.
Back to the ref and fair play to him at least for going over to the screen, watching endless replays and deciding no his initial instinct was correct and it wasn't clear and obvious enough to overturn. Don't think I've ever seen a ref in prem ever do that before.
Luiz is such a good penalty taker aswell, ice cool in that situation which is a nice trait to have.
It was the sort of game where we just had to keep going as I thought we were largely fine but just messed up endless final balls/shots and then got done by the classic suckerpunch.
One thing that does annoy me is how slow we are to actually cross the ball sometimes. Lost count of amount of times Cash got free and instead of quickly looking up and crossing he takes a touch, checks back and then we're outnumbered in the box. Mateta showed how to do it with their goal.
Even this early in the season that's a big win in my book as easily the sort of game that catches us out in previous seasons and then we stop winning home games. This keeps the momentum going at VP nicely.
Onto europe...
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on September 16, 2023, 09:12:27 PM
Post by: Paul.S on September 16, 2023, 09:21:04 PM
Not at our best but even then we are decent to watch at times. We need to start taking our chances though but we may have just discovered a goal scorer in the making.
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 16, 2023, 09:21:41 PM
Watching Duran's goal, and it is a brilliant goal, and I get why he'd want to celebrate it, but I notice Watkins goes straight for the ball in the net, presumably to try to get the game restarted as quickly as possible. Not a complaint against Duran, but it's always interesting to see the more experienced players reactions in these situations.
They were going mad at him on the bench to get on with the game.
Just watching the Spurs goals and Richarlison, who would have every reason to celebrate that equaliser, picked the ball up and was marshaling everyone back to kick off again.
Again, it's not a criticism of Duran, to be clear, it's just interesting to see the different mentalities.
Duran's a young lad who's just scored a brilliant goal out of little so I'd excuse him getting carried away and running towards the Holte.
If he'd just tapped in from a yard then I think he'd have just got the ball out of the net and ran back quickly to halfway line as the game was still to be won.
Of course the excessive injury time we're getting currently means not too much time is wasted with the celebrations.
Post by: Somniloquism on September 16, 2023, 09:24:36 PM
Tielemans pass for the last goal was great but I doubt anyone other than Diaby was chasing that down. He's so quick.
Played for the player. He knew Diaby was quick so could play it longer (but still had to time it so run wasn't offside).
Post by: AV84 on September 16, 2023, 09:27:45 PM
Duran's a young lad who's just scored a brilliant goal out of little so I'd excuse him getting carried away and running towards the Holte.
If he'd just tapped in from a yard then I think he'd have just got the ball out of the net and ran back quickly to halfway line as the game was still to be won.
Of course the excessive injury time we're getting currently means not too much time is wasted with the celebrations.
I know, I acknowledged that in my first post. Just hearing Emery constantly say he's young, we need to keep working with him, etc. etc. makes you wonder if it's more than just physical stuff. Which really wouldn't be surprising either, for someone that age who didn't come through the English academy system, to require some development in that respect too.
Post by: Lucky Eddie on September 16, 2023, 09:29:38 PM
God Bless you my Aston Villa.
Post by: RamboandBruno on September 16, 2023, 09:30:34 PM
I know one thing, I'm glad it's Luiz on pens. So much more relaxing.Were you relaxed 😂 there wasnt a person in the holte that was relaxed.
Post by: Mister E on September 16, 2023, 09:45:35 PM
The first half was good, but I don't see how anyone can argue we were anything other than cack for about 40 minutes in the second. Our passing and movement were poor and inaccurate, and we coughed up possession cheaply time and again. Emery looked furious for most of it. I bet if he'd been commenting on the match thread, he'd have felt like using a few *****s himself.Agree with alost all of that, other than the '40 minutes of cack': maybe 25 minutes!
Duran saved our arses (and well done to the lad, delighted for him), although for me it was Bailey who made the biggest difference. As someone else has said - RCF I think - Cash could perhaps be upgraded, at least in terms of his attacking play (and notwithstanding his recent goals). He was in great positions so many times in the first half, basically facing up a defender more or less one on one, and always had to turn back. I kept thinking that if Moreno was in those positions, he'd have produced something. That right-hand side was our main attacking outlet, but didn't really deliver.
Also, Torres scares the shit out of me. It looks to me like he needs to hit the gym and start lifting some weights, but maybe I've been spoiled watching the man mountain that is Mings in that role for so long.
Anyway, we won, and all is well in the world for at least a few more days.
Post by: paul_e on September 16, 2023, 09:57:42 PM
Post by: caster troy on September 16, 2023, 09:58:53 PM
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 16, 2023, 10:03:27 PM
Side note, probably said many times but games going on this long is ridiculous. Obviously, they just needed enough for us to spank in the third...obviously. But that was enough.
VAR should never take as long as it has at times this season. Clear and obvious should make these decisions relatively simple. If they can't be done within a couple of minutes either it's not clear and obvious or (like today) the officials don't have a clear understanding of the laws.
In fairness Palace had an injury start of second half (when foul was given against Ollie when two Palace defenders collided into each other) and then as mentioned Johnstone went down after the shot hit him and he was down for 3 minutes so 7-8 minutes would've been added on this time last season imo.
Then the VAR review took 2-3 minutes.
What on earth happened in the Spurs game? Was there injuries in that as the injury time given there was 12 minutes. Annoying Spurs turned that around as we could do with them starting to drop points given they're only playing oncr a week.
Post by: Tayls_7 on September 16, 2023, 10:04:32 PM
I remember the old days when our only ‘change the game’ sub was to swap between El Ghazi and Trezeguet. If you’d said to me back then that one day we’d be swapping Zaniolo and Kamara for Bailey and Tielemans I wouldn’t have believed you.
I know but don't worry. It's a work in progress.
Post by: Legion on September 16, 2023, 10:04:33 PM
Post by: LeonW on September 16, 2023, 10:06:55 PM
The goal against the run of play knocked us and I thought it was going to be one of those days.
Step forward Duran. That was a blockbuster of a goal. Wow. One to really enjoy.
Definite penalty but VAR; what is going on. The ref awards the penalty and if it takes 5 minutes of VAR and the ref to review and decide, then it wasn’t a clear and obvious error...which begs the question as to why VAR got involved in the first place.
Great final phase of the game after a largely disjointed second half.
Zaniola needs to learn what passing is although I think this is just how he plays.
Post by: Villa Lew on September 16, 2023, 10:09:48 PM
Post by: Richard E on September 16, 2023, 10:13:20 PM
Post by: Legion on September 16, 2023, 10:14:40 PM
Post by: AV84 on September 16, 2023, 10:14:44 PM
Loads of time wasting by Sheffield United.
Different game but I think Luton's keeper was booked for time wasting after 38 minutes.
Post by: Richard E on September 16, 2023, 10:18:34 PM
Watkins is very hit and miss.
He is. It’s a shame because there’s a lot to like about him. Nowt wrong with his attitude and he always works his knackers off. But he can be very frustrating at times. Should have done better with his chance today.
Post by: Matt C on September 16, 2023, 10:23:59 PM
Post by: UK Redsox on September 16, 2023, 10:30:24 PM
Post by: andyh on September 16, 2023, 10:31:10 PM
And Ayews assault on McGinn.Palace are horrible time-wasting negative wankers.I agree about the ref. His decision not to give Dacoure a yellow card when he scythed down Dougie from behind was ludicrous. It was as blatant a booking as your ever likely to see. He did however redeem himself somewhat when he refused VARS attempt to disallow the penalty.
Referee was poor today.
Watkins and McGinn had poor games.
Cash had so much space down that right in the first half, needs to learn to whip one in first time.
Pau Torres needs a rocket up his arse some times, but man he can pass a ball.
Overall a 6/10 sort of performance. Would have settled for a point at 80 mins so chuffed with a win.
It seems karma was more effective than the ref in that instance.
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 16, 2023, 10:39:13 PM
Having now seen the penalty, why did it take so long to be confirmed?
The VAR team did everything they could to convince the ref his decision was wrong. Including bringing him over to the screen to see his mistake himself. Despite their best efforts the ref told them all to fuck off and went with his original decision.
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 16, 2023, 10:41:23 PM
Loads of time wasting by Sheffield United.
That it? I know they're clamping down on it to extreme levels but basically means every single delayed throw in/goal kick was accounted for and then some whereas in other games it will just get overlooked.
I just assumed there was an injury for 3-4 minutes and then the rest came from the goal, subs, stoppages.
Annoying as even with 7 minutes Spurs wouldn't even have drawn and we could do with them dropping points soon just to evaporate this feelgood factor they have under Postacoglu.
Post by: garyellis on September 16, 2023, 10:41:57 PM
Should have had this game won at half time
Palace are one of the teams we need to be beating consistently at home and we did
Get used to it not always being electrifying
Torres will be something special when he gets used to this league
Dhuran will/can score goals at this level
We as a support base need to adapt to the Emery era, there are a lot of bed setters on here at times
I’m not there yet but I was 100% convinced we would score today as late as the first one was, the next two were a bonus 😀
Post by: olaftab on September 16, 2023, 10:44:21 PM
Was looking at the Palace fans forum and they seem to be accepting it because the rules have changed. News to me !?!I am absolutely shocked that you didn't know that and had to learn it from another clubs fan forum. Not acceptable.
By the wy what's the new rule?
Post by: olaftab on September 16, 2023, 11:00:34 PM
I know one thing, I'm glad it's Luiz on pens. So much more relaxing.I must say once the unnecessary VAR shenanigans had ended, and by the way well done to the Ref, I had no worries at all that Dougie will not score.
Post by: rob_bridge on September 16, 2023, 11:01:15 PM
Was looking at the Palace fans forum and they seem to be accepting it because the rules have changed. News to me !?!I am absolutely shocked that you didn't know that and had to learn it from another clubs fan forum. Not acceptable.
By the wy what's the new rule?
To quote David Brent 'ooh, don't you know?'
Post by: Somniloquism on September 16, 2023, 11:16:01 PM
Post by: Ads on September 16, 2023, 11:16:32 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on September 16, 2023, 11:18:21 PM
Post by: Meanwood Villa on September 16, 2023, 11:18:39 PM
Post by: Risso on September 16, 2023, 11:19:54 PM
I found myself really enjoying that at the end, but on reflection I was incredibly mardy during it, the 2nd half in particular. It offended me that a low block gang of shithouse no marks would dare score at Villa Park. I was a bit whingy about Tielemans, who actually did really well in retrospect in the Doug role. Maybe I've become spoilt.
Tielemans seemed a bit off it when he came on, but then produced two moments of high quality. Hopefully the sign of better things to come from him. I don't know what's up with Kamara at the moment, but it's a bit concerning.
Post by: martyn ellis on September 16, 2023, 11:22:58 PM
Post by: Risso on September 16, 2023, 11:28:26 PM
The Palace assistant manager saying "the fact that it took five minutes tells you all you need to know." Well actually, no it doesn't. Firstly, it was a nailed on penalty, correctly given by the referee. Secondly, the fact that the VAR review took five minutes meant it wasn't a clear and obvious error, so that doesn't back up his view at all.
Post by: Somniloquism on September 16, 2023, 11:29:49 PM
Post by: 9fingers on September 16, 2023, 11:31:26 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on September 16, 2023, 11:31:57 PM
Yep it was definite penalty. He doesn't touch the ball at all in the first phase when he takes Watkins down. He then does after he's fouled the player, but so what? As an example, if you pull a player's shirt back in the box, it doesn't stop it being a penalty if you then kick the ball.
The Palace assistant manager saying "the fact that it took five minutes tells you all you need to know." Well actually, no it doesn't. Firstly, it was a nailed on penalty, correctly given by the referee. Secondly, the fact that the VAR review took five minutes meant it wasn't a clear and obvious error, so that doesn't back up his view at all.
Also the "first" touch they were trying to claim meant nothing. It didn't divert the ball away from the attacker so if he didn't then bring him down Watkins could have still been in.
Post by: maidstonevillain on September 16, 2023, 11:34:44 PM
That's my view. Even after the first slight touch, Watkins still had control of the ball (insofar as Watkins ever has control of the ball), before he was brought down.It was a penalty in my humble opinion. It's a common misconception that getting a touch on the ball negates the penalty. It doesn't because he clearly bought down Ollie who could still have got to the ball and possibly scored.Watched the penalty review again. What the fuck were they saying to the ref from VAR? It was a clear penalty, yet it seems they did everything possible to create doubt in the refs mind.
I really don't think it was a clear pen, if he gets a touch initially before he takes Watkins out then it isn't. I just don't think he quite gets that touch which is ultimately what he decided as well.
It took an eternity and even included a lengthy monitor review. It had to be a clear mistake to overturn and it wasn’t even a mistake.
Post by: olaftab on September 16, 2023, 11:36:18 PM
Post by: LeonW on September 16, 2023, 11:36:32 PM
Post by: AV84 on September 16, 2023, 11:39:25 PM
I honestly don't care where the goals come from, but it's been a very interesting spread so far.
Post by: Small Rodent on September 16, 2023, 11:55:39 PM
The ref was absolutely awful and I hope those Palace 'ultras' dressed in black are still only half way home to their sh it hole that always feels three junctions past Calais.
Why Calais?
Post by: Somniloquism on September 17, 2023, 12:04:57 AM
Bit early in the season to be looking at "top scorers" but at the moment we have 5 players tied on 2 goals each. Diaby and Luiz, and then Bailey, who everyone wanted shipped to Saudi, right back Cash, and competition winner Durán who has played about 40 minutes.
I honestly don't care where the goals come from, but it's been a very interesting spread so far.
Although it must be one of the fastest we have got into double figures scored in recent times. (Although a quick google search shows 20/21 but we had just put 7 passed plop).
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on September 17, 2023, 12:09:03 AM
Post by: Somniloquism on September 17, 2023, 12:10:19 AM
I think most away fans feel Palace is stupidly long to get to considering it is in London AND not on the South coast like some other teams. So I feel Eddie was stating further distance then Brighton, hence 3 junctions on from Calais.The ref was absolutely awful and I hope those Palace 'ultras' dressed in black are still only half way home to their sh it hole that always feels three junctions past Calais.
Why Calais?
Post by: AV84 on September 17, 2023, 12:13:43 AM
Bit early in the season to be looking at "top scorers" but at the moment we have 5 players tied on 2 goals each. Diaby and Luiz, and then Bailey, who everyone wanted shipped to Saudi, right back Cash, and competition winner Durán who has played about 40 minutes.
I honestly don't care where the goals come from, but it's been a very interesting spread so far.
Although it must be one of the fastest we have got into double figures scored in recent times. (Although a quick google search shows 20/21 but we had just put 7 passed plop).
Last season we had, I think, 12 different goal scorers across the entire season in the league. So far this season we've already had 6 in only a handful of games.
Post by: Small Rodent on September 17, 2023, 12:15:41 AM
I think most away fans feel Palace is stupidly long to get to considering it is in London AND not on the South coast like some other teams. So I feel Eddie was stating further distance then Brighton, hence 3 junctions on from Calais.The ref was absolutely awful and I hope those Palace 'ultras' dressed in black are still only half way home to their sh it hole that always feels three junctions past Calais.
Why Calais?
It’s as piss easy to get to as Villa Park is to get to in the reverse fixture.
Post by: Somniloquism on September 17, 2023, 12:17:46 AM
I think most away fans feel Palace is stupidly long to get to considering it is in London AND not on the South coast like some other teams. So I feel Eddie was stating further distance then Brighton, hence 3 junctions on from Calais.The ref was absolutely awful and I hope those Palace 'ultras' dressed in black are still only half way home to their sh it hole that always feels three junctions past Calais.
Why Calais?
It’s as piss easy to get to as Villa Park is to get to in the reverse fixture.
I'm sure I have read Dave W lamenting the trip in the past, and not just because Selhurst is a bit of a bogey ground over the years.
Post by: Small Rodent on September 17, 2023, 12:38:29 AM
Post by: Drummond on September 17, 2023, 12:44:13 AM
Post by: Matt C on September 17, 2023, 12:56:10 AM
Post by: ROBBO on September 17, 2023, 01:01:13 AM
Post by: Somniloquism on September 17, 2023, 01:02:12 AM
Nice stat from the Guardian match report - Luiz the first player to score in four consecutive home league games since Gareth Barry.
Gre Evans tweeted out that Torres played more passes into the Crystal Palace final third then any other premier league player this season. Slightly meaningless as I assume he means only the CP final third and not all final thirds so they have only four other teams top compare to (Albeit one is Arsenal). However it does show he seems to be our go to passer these days, even ahead of Luiz.
Post by: Somniloquism on September 17, 2023, 01:05:26 AM
Post by: ROBBO on September 17, 2023, 01:06:15 AM
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 17, 2023, 01:07:52 AM
I know there's editing constraints and most matches had to fit into 5-6 segment but no idea how you can leave out a shot that hits the woodwork.
They showed the Duran shot that was comfortably saved which was odd unless they wanted to highlight the impact he was having before the fantastic equaliser.
Post by: tomd2103 on September 17, 2023, 01:15:55 AM
Did my eyes deceive me or did MOTD not even show the Watkins shot that hit the post and then hit Johnstone and went out for a corner?
I know there's editing constraints and most matches had to fit into 5-6 segment but no idea how you can leave out a shot that hits the woodwork.
They showed the Duran shot that was comfortably saved which was odd unless they wanted to highlight the impact he was having before the fantastic equaliser.
I was surprised they didn't show it as well. Was at the game earlier and although we didn't play well, I thought we probably created enough chances overall to be deserved winners.
Think there were a few warning signs there today in that performance though. We are going to get a lot of teams coming to Villa Park this season and put ten men behind the ball like Crystal Palace did today and we played into their hands a bit by moving the ball too slowly. We just became a bit aimless at times and although he has his critics, I do think we miss Mings' leadership at times when he's not there.
It didn't help that Matty Cash was our main outlet in the first half, but just couldn't get past their left back. Torres found Cash really well with diagonal balls on a number of occasions, but the former's lack of pace is a bit of a concern. He got caught out for their goal today and wasn't up against someone with blistering pace. I've been trying to think over the past few weeks who his running style reminds me of and it came to me today - Kent Nielsen.
Post by: Somniloquism on September 17, 2023, 01:17:09 AM
Did my eyes deceive me or did MOTD not even show the Watkins shot that hit the post and then hit Johnstone and went out for a corner?
I know there's editing constraints and most matches had to fit into 5-6 segment but no idea how you can leave out a shot that hits the woodwork.
They showed the Duran shot that was comfortably saved which was odd unless they wanted to highlight the impact he was having before the fantastic equaliser.
They could have removed a couple of Cash poor efforts, but I suspect the "all Villa first half, barely Villa second half until the end" was the narrative they were going for.
Post by: Louzie0 on September 17, 2023, 01:17:58 AM
One of these days he’ll score again and the drought will be over.
Post by: tomd2103 on September 17, 2023, 01:36:05 AM
I know it must have happened before but that is the first time for me that a ref has gone to the sidelines to view the recording and stuck with his original decision.
He was at that screen for what seemed like ages. Really have no idea why it took as long as it did.
Post by: Percy McCarthy on September 17, 2023, 05:59:49 AM
Yep it was definite penalty. He doesn't touch the ball at all in the first phase when he takes Watkins down. He then does after he's fouled the player, but so what? As an example, if you pull a player's shirt back in the box, it doesn't stop it being a penalty if you then kick the ball.
The Palace assistant manager saying "the fact that it took five minutes tells you all you need to know." Well actually, no it doesn't. Firstly, it was a nailed on penalty, correctly given by the referee. Secondly, the fact that the VAR review took five minutes meant it wasn't a clear and obvious error, so that doesn't back up his view at all.
When he said that I said to the babby ‘yes it does. It tells you it wasn’t a clear and obvious error’.
Post by: Monty on September 17, 2023, 08:12:43 AM
And the ref does deserve credit, as they mentioned in the Graun, for sticking with his decision rather than changing it just because that's the done thing.
Post by: Percy McCarthy on September 17, 2023, 08:14:53 AM
I know it must have happened before but that is the first time for me that a ref has gone to the sidelines to view the recording and stuck with his original decision.
He was at that screen for what seemed like ages. Really have no idea why it took as long as it did.
There was no reason for him to be there. Even if there was an error, which IMO there wasn’t, there’s no way it could ever be described as clear and obvious.
Post by: VillaTim on September 17, 2023, 08:19:19 AM
Post by: john e on September 17, 2023, 08:38:25 AM
Frustrating yes Palace came to spoil, which was surprising as I thought they had more about them especially in attacking areas
Palace got what they deserved. I have no problem with the longer extra time if players waste time it should be added on the goalie Johnson was a complete disgrace, and I’m glad it all went horribly wrong for him
I was in line with Durans goal in the lower Doug, absolute belter, when you see something like that live it lives with you forever, those special moments in time is what life is all about
We have a problem with our defence against the better teams We are going to be letting goals in I’m afraid
We’ll be fine against half the league teams who want to sit back like yesterday but anyone with a bit more about them will cause us problems
I know that area has been injury hit but it’s our weakest link
Watkins will get goals as the season progresses
His biggest frustration for me is and has always been his lack of technical ability He simply cannot control a ball drives me round the bend
That’s why he will never become really top class imo
I know he slips for the goal but Martinez is still the key player in our team
Without him we lose yesterday,
I reckon he’s worth 10 points a season
Post by: Richard E on September 17, 2023, 08:40:14 AM
Post by: Dick Edwards on September 17, 2023, 09:43:18 AM
I'm a little concerned with Pau Torres with what I've seen so far. While he's clearly a lovely passer of the ball his bread and butter position is as a central defender and he looks physically weak and slow to me.
Post by: itmustbe_it is! on September 17, 2023, 09:45:18 AM
Post by: AV84 on September 17, 2023, 09:47:12 AM
Just watched the pen back on match of the day and genuinely dont understand the pundits - they freeze frame to show the minute "touch" on the ball by the defender before he takes Watkins out, but I see no touch at all until after he's fouled Watkins - the freeze frame appears to prove the exact point they are disagreeing with . Was a pen all day long for me, and I dot think thats just claret and blue glasses.
In real time I felt it looked more like he'd got the ball first, but slowing it down makes it clear he didn't. Fair play to the ref that he gave it the first time, and stuck to his guns with VAR.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 17, 2023, 09:47:37 AM
Post by: Nii Lamptey on September 17, 2023, 09:58:57 AM
His workrate is never in question, but barren spells like this are why he’ll never be top drawer. But for that crazy 15 mins at the end, that miss could have been extremely costly.
Got away with it on this occasion - Brilliant finish to the game, and unfortunate for the droves of fans who’d left before we’d even got the equaliser! 😬
Thought Dougie and Diaby were excellent. Pau Torres’ distribution is a thing of beauty, and he’ll be a real asset once he gets up to speed with the pace of the league. Thought Tielemans looked like he was blowing steam out of his arse when he came on, looked shattered, then came up with 2 assists!?
Onto Warsaw and Chelsea. 6 points please!
UTV
Post by: AV84 on September 17, 2023, 10:03:51 AM
Onto Warsaw and Chelsea. 6 points please!
UTV
Isn't it mad to think we're playing Chelsea after a midweek European game, but it's ours, not theirs.
Post by: Nii Lamptey on September 17, 2023, 10:10:11 AM
Onto Warsaw and Chelsea. 6 points please!
UTV
Isn't it mad to think we're playing Chelsea after a midweek European game, but it's ours, not theirs.
Nope, just the restoration of natural order! 😉
Post by: Somniloquism on September 17, 2023, 10:21:54 AM
I think Torres just needs to learn when to close space better. It was poor to get turned by Mateta yesterday, but also what the hell happened in the middle? Edouard should never have had so much space.
Obviously Torres was on the wing so Digne was even further up, so Kamala or Luiz should have been dropping back to help Konsa. I’m guessing one or both didn’t do that.
Post by: Monty on September 17, 2023, 10:23:07 AM
Post by: brontebilly on September 17, 2023, 10:24:17 AM
I think Torres just needs to learn when to close space better. It was poor to get turned by Mateta yesterday, but also what the hell happened in the middle? Edouard should never have had so much space.
Konsa took a big gamble, it seemed to me, to play offside at nearly the half way line expecting Mateta to play that ball first time. When he rolled Torres and ran with it then Konsa was in no man's land. Both holding midfielders nowhere it must be said, Kamara doing a lot of complaining afterwards instead of bursting a gut to into position to start with and cover back. Ridiculous goal to concede really.
Post by: Astnor on September 17, 2023, 10:26:11 AM
- Diaby s control of himself and the ball for the offside goal was good to watch - would be nice if Watkins and Cash had a bit of that
- What a technique and goal from Duran - really something special and yes it has some Benteke style about it
- build up to the two other goals also superb
- cant see from the highlights the whole build up to their goal but seems that all our defensive formation where out of place sort of so not so much down to an individuals mistake
All in all we clearly where and are the better team and it it did show with our strong ending to the game but also parts of the game we didnt look that good as a team
Post by: Clampy on September 17, 2023, 10:29:22 AM
I think Torres just needs to learn when to close space better. It was poor to get turned by Mateta yesterday, but also what the hell happened in the middle? Edouard should never have had so much space.
Konsa took a big gamble, it seemed to me, to play offside at nearly the half way line expecting Mateta to play that ball first time. When he rolled Torres and ran with it then Konsa was in no man's land. Both holding midfielders nowhere it must be said, Kamara doing a lot of complaining afterwards instead of bursting a gut to into position to start with and cover back. Ridiculous goal to concede really.
Still, good win eh Bronte?
Post by: Somniloquism on September 17, 2023, 10:31:41 AM
I think Torres just needs to learn when to close space better. It was poor to get turned by Mateta yesterday, but also what the hell happened in the middle? Edouard should never have had so much space.
Konsa took a big gamble, it seemed to me, to play offside at nearly the half way line expecting Mateta to play that ball first time. When he rolled Torres and ran with it then Konsa was in no man's land. Both holding midfielders nowhere it must be said, Kamara doing a lot of complaining afterwards instead of bursting a gut to into position to start with and cover back. Ridiculous goal to concede really.
Still, good win eh Bronte?
You do realise he is relating back to a question on why they had a stupid amount of space for their goal. And they are valid complaints even though we came back right at the end.
Post by: RamboandBruno on September 17, 2023, 10:34:09 AM
I think Torres just needs to learn when to close space better. It was poor to get turned by Mateta yesterday, but also what the hell happened in the middle? Edouard should never have had so much space.
Konsa took a big gamble, it seemed to me, to play offside at nearly the half way line expecting Mateta to play that ball first time. When he rolled Torres and ran with it then Konsa was in no man's land. Both holding midfielders nowhere it must be said, Kamara doing a lot of complaining afterwards instead of bursting a gut to into position to start with and cover back. Ridiculous goal to concede really.
Yea agree with this. I thought Konsa was largely excellent most of the game but caught out here. And your right about Kamara, it must be his job to get back to cover. Torres obviously gets turned too easily by Mateta, but that alone shouldn’t of led to the goal and I think the focus on Torres here blurs an analysis of what was otherwise a really good performance
Post by: Pete3206 on September 17, 2023, 10:35:50 AM
Post by: levico on September 17, 2023, 10:36:03 AM
I think Torres just needs to learn when to close space better. It was poor to get turned by Mateta yesterday, but also what the hell happened in the middle? Edouard should never have had so much space.
Agreed but I like to think that without the slip, EMI would have saved the shot.
Post by: Astnor on September 17, 2023, 10:38:21 AM
Post by: Clampy on September 17, 2023, 10:41:09 AM
I think Torres just needs to learn when to close space better. It was poor to get turned by Mateta yesterday, but also what the hell happened in the middle? Edouard should never have had so much space.
Konsa took a big gamble, it seemed to me, to play offside at nearly the half way line expecting Mateta to play that ball first time. When he rolled Torres and ran with it then Konsa was in no man's land. Both holding midfielders nowhere it must be said, Kamara doing a lot of complaining afterwards instead of bursting a gut to into position to start with and cover back. Ridiculous goal to concede really.
Still, good win eh Bronte?
You do realise he is relating back to a question on why they had a stupid amount of space for their goal. And they are valid complaints even though we came back right at the end.
Well, yes but he's normally quick to criticise when we lose so a bit of praise wouldn't have gone amiss.
Post by: Nunkin1965 on September 17, 2023, 10:43:40 AM
We're not aimlessly pumping the ball into the box. We're not clueless and there is a patience about what were doing that at least gives us a chance. There are at least 10 minutes ontop of the 90 left.
Why are you leaving?
Post by: Risso on September 17, 2023, 10:45:10 AM
Post by: alan_clarke on September 17, 2023, 10:45:48 AM
Post by: Risso on September 17, 2023, 10:47:45 AM
Post by: Astnor on September 17, 2023, 10:48:49 AM
Just watched MOTD. All 3 pundits claim the pen was 'tough' on Palace. Whatever.Yes, reading the summary on Skysports you can get the same impression (that it was "though" on Palace). What is it with English press not want to shed a positive light on Villa? You living over there might be in better position to understand som of that - might be down to us being the biggest club before the PL area and that PL wanted a new beginning. In fact I did watch a youtube clip from at villa park think it was 78 between villa and manu and commentators said villa and manu was the two most popular clubs in England (78 that is).
Post by: Mister E on September 17, 2023, 10:56:05 AM
I think Torres just needs to learn when to close space better. It was poor to get turned by Mateta yesterday, but also what the hell happened in the middle? Edouard should never have had so much space.Mateta was a physical presence yesterday, and Torres got too close to him. Hopefully he's learning before - as you hint - he comes up against really good opposition.
Post by: maidstonevillain on September 17, 2023, 10:57:34 AM
While sitting in the DE yesterday at around the 85 minute mark watching a few people start to wander out and head home, I thought that this isn't like the old days.
We're not aimlessly pumping the ball into the box. We're not clueless and there is a patience about what were doing that at least gives us a chance. There are at least 10 minutes ontop of the 90 left.
Why are you leaving?
I was in Upper Trinity, and had a good view of DE. There were a lot of empty seats throughout the game, but the Lower Doug looked about half empty just after Duran scored. There were a lot of empty seats around me in A3 throughout the game.
Post by: leylandalbion on September 17, 2023, 11:00:09 AM
While sitting in the DE yesterday at around the 85 minute mark watching a few people start to wander out and head home, I thought that this isn't like the old days.Some of the comments in L7...lump the ball forward etc...back to the RDM and Bruce era...we know we had plenty of time with the stoppages..people need to try and trust the process...hopefully days like yesterday grow the faith!
We're not aimlessly pumping the ball into the box. We're not clueless and there is a patience about what were doing that at least gives us a chance. There are at least 10 minutes ontop of the 90 left.
Why are you leaving?
Post by: Mister E on September 17, 2023, 11:00:24 AM
I hate any penalty being given against us. But it was a definite pen. I also thought the handball was rightly not given.I thought the previous one - where Watkins was sandwiched by two defenders (and for which the ref gave a freekick against our man) - was a strong call for a pen. I think the ref was swayed by the fact that one of the defenders went down clutching his head.
Post by: AV84 on September 17, 2023, 11:01:41 AM
I think Torres just needs to learn when to close space better. It was poor to get turned by Mateta yesterday, but also what the hell happened in the middle? Edouard should never have had so much space.
Obviously Torres was on the wing so Digne was even further up, so Kamala or Luiz should have been dropping back to help Konsa. I’m guessing one or both didn’t do that.
A few people have said this already but I think maybe the "problem" we have is in midfield. It's not to say the players aren't good, but depending on who we're playing, and how the game is going, it's in midfield that things break down. I think Diaby, who is really more of a forward, and maybe Luiz, are the only two that have been consistent this season. The others have been hit and miss. I do think we're really missing Ramsey in there and once he's back the likes of Bailey, Zaniolo, Tielemans, and maybe even Kamara, will be rotated in and out between Europe and league games. Luiz, McGinn, Ramsey and Diaby should be the core of the midfield.
Post by: Mister E on September 17, 2023, 11:03:14 AM
Just watched MOTD. All 3 pundits claim the pen was 'tough' on Palace. Whatever.A quote from the BBC website: "A desperate lunge from Richards saw Watkins fouled in the area" ...
Post by: Martyn Smith on September 17, 2023, 11:04:54 AM
Just watched MOTD. All 3 pundits claim the pen was 'tough' on Palace. Whatever.
If that pen had been awarded against Villa I'd be yelling my head off. He clearly gets the ball well before his leg collides with Olly
Post by: Clampy on September 17, 2023, 11:06:29 AM
Post by: Exeter 77 on September 17, 2023, 11:08:01 AM
Post by: Risso on September 17, 2023, 11:10:02 AM
Just watched MOTD. All 3 pundits claim the pen was 'tough' on Palace. Whatever.
If that pen had been awarded against Villa I'd be yelling my head off. He clearly gets the ball well before his leg collides with Olly
He does nothing of the sort. The ball doesn’t alter its course by even a millimetre.
Post by: Ian. on September 17, 2023, 11:14:07 AM
Just watched MOTD. All 3 pundits claim the pen was 'tough' on Palace. Whatever.
If that pen had been awarded against Villa I'd be yelling my head off. He clearly gets the ball well before his leg collides with Olly
He does nothing of the sort. The ball doesn’t alter its course by even a millimetre.
You can’t foul a player and then get the ball. Ollie would have been through on goal. It was a foul and I find it puzzling how some find it hard not see that?
Post by: olaftab on September 17, 2023, 11:28:06 AM
Just watched MOTD. All 3 pundits claim the pen was 'tough' on Palace. Whatever.Lazy fuckers. Murphy's so called expert analysis were devoid of any gravity as I don't think he watched the match at all prior to actually commenting on it during broadcast. They were all wanking over Spurs turnaround when arguably our result was tougher against a much much better team than United.
Post by: olaftab on September 17, 2023, 11:29:11 AM
Yes, it's not tag rugby.Just watched MOTD. All 3 pundits claim the pen was 'tough' on Palace. Whatever.
If that pen had been awarded against Villa I'd be yelling my head off. He clearly gets the ball well before his leg collides with Olly
He does nothing of the sort. The ball doesn’t alter its course by even a millimetre.
Post by: Clampy on September 17, 2023, 11:31:51 AM
Post by: Nev on September 17, 2023, 11:40:18 AM
A "do we have to?"attitude that they should be ashamed of. If you don't enjoy it let someone else do the job you fucking wankers.
Post by: Clampy on September 17, 2023, 11:42:29 AM
Post by: Somniloquism on September 17, 2023, 11:49:30 AM
Post by: Somniloquism on September 17, 2023, 11:50:12 AM
They spent most of the time coming up with Duran Duran puns.
Hopefully they will tire of this when he is in double figures.
Post by: Chris Smith on September 17, 2023, 11:59:45 AM
Post by: ChicagoLion on September 17, 2023, 12:04:08 PM
Post by: astonvilla82 on September 17, 2023, 12:07:13 PM
Post by: Percy McCarthy on September 17, 2023, 12:07:36 PM
It was much more of a penalty than Johnson's tackle on Gabby in the Villa Park game against Small Heath in April 2010 and we got that one as well.
Both 100% pens, only denied by people who don’t know the rules.
“Oh but he played the ball”. Irrelevant.
Post by: Villa Lew on September 17, 2023, 12:12:07 PM
Absolutely delighted for Jhon, a sensational goal, that of a natural striker, only 19 the lad looks to have tremendous potential. I thought it was a pen, but the pen should have been retaken, Diaby was clearly encroaching, how VAR missed it I'll never know, but I'm certainly not complaining!
Post by: Risso on September 17, 2023, 12:22:16 PM
It was much more of a penalty than Johnson's tackle on Gabby in the Villa Park game against Small Heath in April 2010 and we got that one as well.
Both 100% pens, only denied by people who don’t know the rules.
“Oh but he played the ball”. Irrelevant.
Absolutely. If you put both hands on a forward's shoulders, and yanked him back, and then kicked the ball away, people wouldn't be using "but he played the ball" as defence in that situation. He missed the ball, took Ollie's legs away, then kicked the ball as they both fell over. And that is a cast iron penalty, I hope that the ref's assessor applauds him for making the right decision and then for sticking to his guns.
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 17, 2023, 12:22:45 PM
For them, I thought Eze was very pacey and tricky to handle but his passing/distribution to teammates wasn’t that great.
I'd love to sign him. He's everything Buendia was hyped up to be but hasn't really aside from a few good games here and there.
Think Eze could be as good a signing as Maddison has been so far from Spurs although guess only chance to sign him for decent fee is if they get relegated which is very unlikely this season.
Post by: Holte132 on September 17, 2023, 12:23:09 PM
Needed that win with 6 games in 17 days, coming up, in the league Chelsea, Brighton and Wolves, after that little lot, it will give us a fair idea how our season's gonna pan out.
Absolutely delighted for Jhon, a sensational goal, that of a natural striker, only 19 the lad looks to have tremendous potential. I thought it was a pen, but the pen should have been retaken, Diaby was clearly encroaching, how VAR missed it I'll never know, but I'm certainly not complaining!
I checked that out, about the encroachment. Apparently they only penalise it if the ball rebounds back into play. https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/48382254
Post by: Brazilian Villain on September 17, 2023, 12:25:58 PM
Penalty all day long,if that happens outside the area it's a foul, that what the referee saw,ask Harry Kane he would know
Yeah, even Savage on 606 said it was a 'stonewall' penalty.
Post by: Ger Regan on September 17, 2023, 12:32:51 PM
Cheers again to BE for sorting my ticket (I'm still not able to renew my claret membership on the villa website despite it being with their support team for over 2 weeks).
Also, hopefully the 2 beside me who left on the 86th minute didn't get too far.
Post by: LeeB on September 17, 2023, 12:38:33 PM
A word for Tielemans, who played the key pass for goals 2 and 3.
And exactly the kind vertical, perfectly weighted through balls I thought we'd benefit from by signing him
Post by: oldtimernow on September 17, 2023, 12:49:59 PM
There was a whiff of prime Fergies ManUre about that win yesterday. 85 mins losing . FT won 3-1 . Superb.
Fergie time too!
Post by: Villa Lew on September 17, 2023, 12:51:08 PM
Needed that win with 6 games in 17 days, coming up, in the league Chelsea, Brighton and Wolves, after that little lot, it will give us a fair idea how our season's gonna pan out.
Absolutely delighted for Jhon, a sensational goal, that of a natural striker, only 19 the lad looks to have tremendous potential. I thought it was a pen, but the pen should have been retaken, Diaby was clearly encroaching, how VAR missed it I'll never know, but I'm certainly not complaining!
I checked that out, about the encroachment. Apparently they only penalise it if the ball rebounds back into play. https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/48382254
Oh right thanks, I've learned something.
Post by: Risso on September 17, 2023, 12:51:18 PM
A word for Tielemans, who played the key pass for goals 2 and 3.
And exactly the kind vertical, perfectly weighted through balls I thought we'd benefit from by signing him
Oe of his strengths is supposed to be running with the ball and beating players one-on-one, I hope we get to see a bit more of that from him soon. The long pases were ace though.
Post by: AV84 on September 17, 2023, 01:07:13 PM
Needed that win with 6 games in 17 days, coming up, in the league Chelsea, Brighton and Wolves, after that little lot, it will give us a fair idea how our season's gonna pan out.
Absolutely delighted for Jhon, a sensational goal, that of a natural striker, only 19 the lad looks to have tremendous potential. I thought it was a pen, but the pen should have been retaken, Diaby was clearly encroaching, how VAR missed it I'll never know, but I'm certainly not complaining!
I checked that out, about the encroachment. Apparently they only penalise it if the ball rebounds back into play. https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/48382254
I know we all praise his speed, and it's definitely going to be an asset more than it's a hindrance, but he did get into the box very quickly there, thankfully it didn't matter. For his disallowed goal too, I'd say he was onside when Torres decided to pass it but in the second it took him to play it, Diaby was off. Very tight mind, but that's how quick he is. But then we saw the positive of that when he got onto Tielemans pass for the 3rd goal. I'd assume Tielemans knew it was Diaby and weighted it knowing his speed would get him there, because I don't think anyone else was running that ball down before it went out.
Post by: tomd2103 on September 17, 2023, 01:08:11 PM
I think Torres just needs to learn when to close space better. It was poor to get turned by Mateta yesterday, but also what the hell happened in the middle? Edouard should never have had so much space.
Obviously Torres was on the wing so Digne was even further up, so Kamala or Luiz should have been dropping back to help Konsa. I’m guessing one or both didn’t do that.
A few people have said this already but I think maybe the "problem" we have is in midfield. It's not to say the players aren't good, but depending on who we're playing, and how the game is going, it's in midfield that things break down. I think Diaby, who is really more of a forward, and maybe Luiz, are the only two that have been consistent this season. The others have been hit and miss. I do think we're really missing Ramsey in there and once he's back the likes of Bailey, Zaniolo, Tielemans, and maybe even Kamara, will be rotated in and out between Europe and league games. Luiz, McGinn, Ramsey and Diaby should be the core of the midfield.
I agree. Ramsey excelled in that position last season, but others have struggled there and it makes us a bit unbalanced.
It was just a bit congested in the middle of the park yesterday and there wasn’t much time on the ball.
Post by: MattW on September 17, 2023, 01:21:11 PM
https://x.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1703378768432336945?t=G5j4iV-_-x0NgN3BliD2Fg&s=09
Kamara a bit flat.
Post by: Risso on September 17, 2023, 01:23:35 PM
I watched this clip of the dug-out when Luiz scores about 15 times on loop. McGinn, Moreno (such a good good guy) and MacPhee stood out.
https://x.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1703378768432336945?t=G5j4iV-_-x0NgN3BliD2Fg&s=09
Kamara a bit flat.
He looked absolutely disgusted to be taken off. As I said when Tielemans was having a minor moan: "play better then."
Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 17, 2023, 01:28:23 PM
Post by: Exeter 77 on September 17, 2023, 01:33:58 PM
Exactly thatIt was much more of a penalty than Johnson's tackle on Gabby in the Villa Park game against Small Heath in April 2010 and we got that one as well.
Both 100% pens, only denied by people who don’t know the rules.
“Oh but he played the ball”. Irrelevant.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 17, 2023, 01:34:04 PM
Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 17, 2023, 01:43:03 PM
Exactly thatIt was much more of a penalty than Johnson's tackle on Gabby in the Villa Park game against Small Heath in April 2010 and we got that one as well.
Both 100% pens, only denied by people who don’t know the rules.
“Oh but he played the ball”. Irrelevant.
That "he played the ball so it can't be a penalty" that you hear all over the place really fucking annoys me.
That Blues one, their player, I think it was Roger Johnson, was absolutely adamant that if you play the ball, it can't be a penalty.
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 17, 2023, 01:57:11 PM
Post by: AV84 on September 17, 2023, 02:08:56 PM
I watched this clip of the dug-out when Luiz scores about 15 times on loop. McGinn, Moreno (such a good good guy) and MacPhee stood out.
https://x.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1703378768432336945?t=G5j4iV-_-x0NgN3BliD2Fg&s=09
Kamara a bit flat.
He looked absolutely disgusted to be taken off. As I said when Tielemans was having a minor moan: "play better then."
I think it's interesting to see the mentality of certain players in regards to playing time. It's understandable that a player wants to play all the time, but I feel like the sport is shifting into a full squad game, or at least the most successful clubs are. One of the keys to Man City's success has been Pep's rotation of players, and having a squad with depth and quality in all positions, so basically nobody is guaranteed a spot if they're not performing.
I think that's what Emery is trying to build at Villa, and some players will buy into it, and others won't. Gone are the days where there's a set 11 players and 4 or 5 career subs. If you want to be guaranteed to play every minute of every game then you probably need to play for a much smaller club and be a big fish in a small pond. If you want to be part of a team that's challenging for trophies and achieving things, then you need to a) accept you're part of a wider squad, and b) play well consistently and don't give anyone the opportunity to replace you.
Post by: Risso on September 17, 2023, 02:11:33 PM
I watched this clip of the dug-out when Luiz scores about 15 times on loop. McGinn, Moreno (such a good good guy) and MacPhee stood out.
https://x.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1703378768432336945?t=G5j4iV-_-x0NgN3BliD2Fg&s=09
Kamara a bit flat.
He looked absolutely disgusted to be taken off. As I said when Tielemans was having a minor moan: "play better then."
I think it's interesting to see the mentality of certain players in regards to playing time. It's understandable that a player wants to play all the time, but I feel like the sport is shifting into a full squad game, or at least the most successful clubs are. One of the keys to Man City's success has been Pep's rotation of players, and having a squad with depth and quality in all positions, so basically nobody is guaranteed a spot if they're not performing.
I think that's what Emery is trying to build at Villa, and some players will buy into it, and others won't. Gone are the days where there's a set 11 players and 4 or 5 career subs. If you want to be guaranteed to play every minute of every game then you probably need to play for a much smaller club and be a big fish in a small pond. If you want to be part of a team that's challenging for trophies and achieving things, then you need to a) accept you're part of a wider squad, and b) play well consistently and don't give anyone the opportunity to replace you.
Agreed. I'd never want a player to be happy about being subbed, but I would very much expect them to at least look a bit pleased when the team scores a goal.
Post by: fredm on September 17, 2023, 02:18:16 PM
Post by: AGRIPPA on September 17, 2023, 02:33:24 PM
Post by: Astnor on September 17, 2023, 02:38:49 PM
I watched this clip of the dug-out when Luiz scores about 15 times on loop. McGinn, Moreno (such a good guy) and MacPhee stood out.Emery allows himself about one second of celebration and then quickly over to Dendoncker to get him ready to enter to defend the lead.
https://x.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1703378768432336945?t=G5j4iV-_-x0NgN3BliD2Fg&s=09
Kamara a bit flat.
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 17, 2023, 02:38:49 PM
https://x.com/maxcpfc21/status/1703140513493250084?s=46
Post by: Hookeysmith on September 17, 2023, 02:50:30 PM
Firstly why was Edoudes goal not checked for offside as it looked as close as Diabys
Secondly very late on Bailey and Duran were involved in a clear foul that warranted a booking. The ref Booked Bailey when I thought it was clearly Duran who committed the foul. Less than 2 mins later Duran pulls back a player and is duly given a yellow but I was convinced it was his 2nd yell9w.
Maybe the big clubs get all the decisions after all ;)
Great win and watching Chelsea today looking forward in doing them again this season.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 17, 2023, 02:56:48 PM
Post by: AV84 on September 17, 2023, 02:57:12 PM
Great win and watching Chelsea today looking forward in doing them again this season.
I don't want to jinx it because who knows which version of us shows up, but looking at them.... you'd have to think we're more than favourites next weekend.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 17, 2023, 02:57:59 PM
Post by: Lastfootstamper on September 17, 2023, 02:59:54 PM
Post by: Mister E on September 17, 2023, 03:05:48 PM
Agreed on Kamara, he had a poor game yesterday, he can hardly be surprised at getting hooked.Kamara was not at his best, but he was not crap either. He had a good first half (including a sublime turn on Hughes in the centre circle) and then faded in the second. As others have said, he probably could have done more to help prevent the palace goal.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on September 17, 2023, 03:12:33 PM
This is a really good look at the penalty. Ollie clearly touches the ball and then gets taken out. There isn’t much more to discuss.
https://x.com/maxcpfc21/status/1703140513493250084?s=46
The arguing against it is wearing. And I have to believe that Stockley Park also believe that the CP player perhaps grazing the ball without altering its trajectory from WatkIns' touch before then legging him up in the air and subsequently getting a firm touch constitutes it possibly not being a penalty. I can't think of any other reason why they'd question it.
Post by: Ger Regan on September 17, 2023, 03:13:53 PM
Also, I thought playing I Won't Back Down at the end was a nice choice given the circumstances.
Post by: PaulTheVillan on September 17, 2023, 03:31:10 PM
Credit to the palace fans as well, they were the loudest set of away fans i can remember in some time, especially considering they didn't take the full allocation.
Also, I thought playing I Won't Back Down at the end was a nice choice given the circumstances.
My pal is a palace fan. I went to SHA away one year and sat with the palace fans. Free ticket. Local gig. The palace fans were brilliant.
Lots of young cockney lads given money by the rich parents to piss off out for the day.
Enjoyed it.
Post by: Small Rodent on September 17, 2023, 03:40:49 PM
Post by: rougegorge on September 17, 2023, 03:59:45 PM
Credit to the palace fans as well, they were the loudest set of away fans i can remember in some time, especially considering they didn't take the full allocation.Yes, for their numbers, they made more noise than the Holte End for the most part although they still didn't match Hibs who were noisier and with nothing to play for.
Also, I thought playing I Won't Back Down at the end was a nice choice given the circumstances.
Post by: Flamingo Lane on September 17, 2023, 04:18:50 PM
Two observations that I've not seen discussed.
Firstly why was Edoudes goal not checked for offside as it looked as close as Diabys
Secondly very late on Bailey and Duran were involved in a clear foul that warranted a booking. The ref Booked Bailey when I thought it was clearly Duran who committed the foul. Less than 2 mins later Duran pulls back a player and is duly given a yellow but I was convinced it was his 2nd yell9w.
Maybe the big clubs get all the decisions after all ;)
Great win and watching Chelsea today looking forward in doing them again this season.
I think Bailey did commit the foul, but was actually booked for kicking the ball away (albeit he kicked it gently and straight to a Palace player standing no more than ten yards away).
Post by: Bad English on September 17, 2023, 04:50:58 PM
Just watched MOTD. All 3 pundits claim the pen was 'tough' on Palace. Whatever.Did they? Diddums!
Post by: andyh on September 17, 2023, 05:06:30 PM
Is it about the same time xg became a thing ?
Post by: Smirker on September 17, 2023, 05:11:33 PM
When did ‘parking the bus’ become ‘a low block’ ?
Is it about the same time xg became a thing ?
When this happened:
https://www.sportbible.com/football/foul-play-graeme-souness-criticised-after-rudely-interrupting-pundit-alex-scott-20190203
Since then people have started using it a lot. Soundness was right BTW. Another one is double pivot. You mean two man midfield. 'The press' - that's called closing down. Terminology has definitely become a bit pompous over the past few years.
Post by: Exeter 77 on September 17, 2023, 05:19:01 PM
Post by: Richard E on September 17, 2023, 05:25:34 PM
Post by: passport1 on September 17, 2023, 05:45:17 PM
When did ‘parking the bus’ become ‘a low block’ ?
Is it about the same time xg became a thing ?
When this happened:
https://www.sportbible.com/football/foul-play-graeme-souness-criticised-after-rudely-interrupting-pundit-alex-scott-20190203
Since then people have started using it a lot. Soundness was right BTW. Another one is double pivot. You mean two man midfield. 'The press' - that's called closing down. Terminology has definitely become a bit pompous over the past few years.
Poor old Graham who regularly finds himself stuck in a studio with some 'lady footballer' nonentity. Might as well have some guy who played in the Southern League offering his opinion.
Post by: Brend'Watkins on September 17, 2023, 05:54:51 PM
Just watched MOTD. All 3 pundits claim the pen was 'tough' on Palace. Whatever.Did they? Diddums!
The ref should be still analysing it now, far too hasty with his decision once going to the camera. And anyway, it’s the law if you go to the camera the decision should be overruled.
Post by: Smirker on September 17, 2023, 06:20:53 PM
'The Press' is a term borrowed from basketball.
Now that I know it is an Americanism is bothers me more.
Post by: Small Rodent on September 17, 2023, 06:47:32 PM
When did ‘parking the bus’ become ‘a low block’ ?
Is it about the same time xg became a thing ?
When this happened:
https://www.sportbible.com/football/foul-play-graeme-souness-criticised-after-rudely-interrupting-pundit-alex-scott-20190203
Since then people have started using it a lot. Soundness was right BTW. Another one is double pivot. You mean two man midfield. 'The press' - that's called closing down. Terminology has definitely become a bit pompous over the past few years.
Poor old Graham who regularly finds himself stuck in a studio with some 'lady footballer' nonentity. Might as well have some guy who played in the Southern League offering his opinion.
The world has moved on. Deal with it.
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on September 17, 2023, 07:11:02 PM
Post by: VILLA MOLE on September 17, 2023, 07:23:39 PM
Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 17, 2023, 08:07:55 PM
Seen a few people making a big deal about Kamara not celebrating the goals .
To be fair, he did look like someone had pissed in his chips.
Post by: pablo_picasso on September 17, 2023, 08:15:55 PM
Well I had never heard of it before so I thought it was just some trendy saying. But it doesn’t even describe what it actually is. A low block is either a three storey dwelling or a driveway paving arrangement.
It was something I noticed when Emma Hayes was commentating, she kept saying "defending low" & using the word "transition" over & over.
Which would suggest that female coaches use some differing terminology than males.
Not sure why terms like "defending deep" needs to be changed, but "transition" is a good way of describing teams transferring possession.
Im not a fan of Emma Hayes. Granted she is successful, but she just reminds me of Lee Hendrie when talking.
I like Alex Scott. Insightful.
Post by: baddowvillans on September 17, 2023, 08:34:15 PM
Just watched MOTD. All 3 pundits claim the pen was 'tough' on Palace. Whatever.
If that pen had been awarded against Villa I'd be yelling my head off. He clearly gets the ball well before his leg collides with Olly
I disagree that he "clearly" gets the ball but let's assume you're right, the ball doesn't move of its existing trajectory before he takes Watkins out and only then makes a more definite contact with the ball. Its a penalty anytime anywhere.
Post by: paul_e on September 17, 2023, 08:53:55 PM
Just watched MOTD. All 3 pundits claim the pen was 'tough' on Palace. Whatever.
If that pen had been awarded against Villa I'd be yelling my head off. He clearly gets the ball well before his leg collides with Olly
I disagree that he "clearly" gets the ball but let's assume you're right, the ball doesn't move of its existing trajectory before he takes Watkins out and only then makes a more definite contact with the ball. Its a penalty anytime anywhere.
Cxorrect, the sport really needs to get rid of the myth that the tip of a stud toucvhing the ball negates any and all foul play.
Post by: Lsvilla on September 17, 2023, 08:59:13 PM
Totally agree. Unusual for the ref to stick with his decision when he goes to the screen but he had a much better view of the whole picture than the cameras offered. He was right to stand his ground and effectively say "I know what I saw".Just watched MOTD. All 3 pundits claim the pen was 'tough' on Palace. Whatever.
If that pen had been awarded against Villa I'd be yelling my head off. He clearly gets the ball well before his leg collides with Olly
I disagree that he "clearly" gets the ball but let's assume you're right, the ball doesn't move of its existing trajectory before he takes Watkins out and only then makes a more definite contact with the ball. Its a penalty anytime anywhere.
Cxorrect, the sport really needs to get rid of the myth that the tip of a stud toucvhing the ball negates any and all foul play.
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on September 17, 2023, 09:11:00 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on September 17, 2023, 09:54:05 PM
I don’t even know why they’re questioning it. It’s an obvious penalty. Does he even touch the ball first time around? I didn’t know you could foul then get the ball how does that work?
The close up linked earlier on some Palace fan posted seems to show a graze. Not enough to divert the ball from any direction and if there was no contact with Watkins, he was still through. The second touch was the decisive one and if he had made that first, it wouldn't have been a pen. However by then he had already contacted Watkins. Essentially it was a probably half inch from being a perfect tackle, but as we know with VAR, that distance is enough to chalk off a goal.
Post by: paul_e on September 17, 2023, 10:04:10 PM
Even with that they also need a rule that winning the ball is irrelevant if you endanger the opponent, to deal with c*nts like Mee who are happy to try to injure someone with their follow-through.
Post by: Chap on September 17, 2023, 10:45:40 PM
Post by: Pat McMahon on September 18, 2023, 12:30:52 AM
I don’t even know why they’re questioning it. It’s an obvious penalty. Does he even touch the ball first time around? I didn’t know you could foul then get the ball how does that work?
The close up linked earlier on some Palace fan posted seems to show a graze. Not enough to divert the ball from any direction and if there was no contact with Watkins, he was still through. The second touch was the decisive one and if he had made that first, it wouldn't have been a pen. However by then he had already contacted Watkins. Essentially it was a probably half inch from being a perfect tackle, but as we know with VAR, that distance is enough to chalk off a goal.
A very obvious point as well, rarely mentioned by pundits, is that making a tackle with the wrong foot - the outside of your foot like Stewart did yesterday - leads to more potential errors and clumsiness.
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on September 18, 2023, 12:56:21 AM
They just need to clarify that a tackle is only complete if you win the ball (not touch it), where winning the ball means intentionally and clearly changing the direction or momentum of the ball to take it out of the control of the opponent. That way a toe on the ball before you clatter into the man is correctly given as a foul because you haven't won it and therefore the tackle isn't complete before you commit the foul.
Even with that they also need a rule that winning the ball is irrelevant if you endanger the opponent, to deal with c*nts like Mee who are happy to try to injure someone with their follow-through.
But Paul, that's so f**king obvious, why isn't it implemented? It baffles me. If he doesn't give that in real time then I would bet a lot of money he doesn't change his mind after looking at the VAR screen on account of that 'graze' even though we know it should still be a foul.
If it was reversed though and Torres was tackling Eze there would be plenty on here saying he JUST 'touched the ball' and that would still be bollocks but it's because we've been told that that is enough. It's nonsense.
Don't get me started on that Gordon pen, although to be fair Shearer didn't think that was one.
Post by: stevo_st on September 18, 2023, 01:56:05 AM
I don’t even know why they’re questioning it. It’s an obvious penalty. Does he even touch the ball first time around? I didn’t know you could foul then get the ball how does that work?
The close up linked earlier on some Palace fan posted seems to show a graze. Not enough to divert the ball from any direction and if there was no contact with Watkins, he was still through. The second touch was the decisive one and if he had made that first, it wouldn't have been a pen. However by then he had already contacted Watkins. Essentially it was a probably half inch from being a perfect tackle, but as we know with VAR, that distance is enough to chalk off a goal.
Don’t think it was close to being a perfect tackle, he should never have attempted to come in at that angle, especially with the leg he went in with.
Was a desperate lunge, probably thinking that Ollie was going to shoot with his touch.
Post by: Neil Hawkes on September 18, 2023, 06:28:54 AM
To me it looked as is he was reflecting on his performance, purely based on the same vacant look I end up with when things have not gone according to my plans.
I hope it was not him being annoyed with being substituted, as it was obvious when we lost our composure that his performance, at that time, was not particularly great and he is capable of much better displays.
If he adapts, then he will improve. If not he may become another Buendia, good and frustrating in equal measure and always one that will be targeted for substitution.
Post by: RamboandBruno on September 18, 2023, 07:17:23 AM
Re Kamara, while sitting on the bench.
To me it looked as is he was reflecting on his performance, purely based on the same vacant look I end up with when things have not gone according to my plans.
I hope it was not him being annoyed with being substituted, as it was obvious when we lost our composure that his performance, at that time, was not particularly great and he is capable of much better displays.
If he adapts, then he will improve. If not he may become another Buendia, good and frustrating in equal measure and always one that will be targeted for substitution.
I might be wrong but I didn’t think he got taken off because of his performance, but more because Emery decided we didn’t need a 6 on the pitch anymore given Palaces tactics of sotting deep.
Post by: Somniloquism on September 18, 2023, 08:48:23 AM
See Garth Crooks is also siding with MOTD chums, even if he did put Dougie in his team of the week.
Only put him in so he can put his two penneth in. The ref didn't take 5 minutes to make the decision, he did it in 1 second. It was 5 minutes of trying to convince him otherwise.
Post by: algy on September 18, 2023, 08:52:51 AM
I like Alex Scott too. IMO the best pundit on TV, as you said she tends to be a tad more insightful than the usual ex-pros.Well I had never heard of it before so I thought it was just some trendy saying. But it doesn’t even describe what it actually is. A low block is either a three storey dwelling or a driveway paving arrangement.
It was something I noticed when Emma Hayes was commentating, she kept saying "defending low" & using the word "transition" over & over.
Which would suggest that female coaches use some differing terminology than males.
Not sure why terms like "defending deep" needs to be changed, but "transition" is a good way of describing teams transferring possession.
Im not a fan of Emma Hayes. Granted she is successful, but she just reminds me of Lee Hendrie when talking.
I like Alex Scott. Insightful.
As for the terminology, maybe it's crept in from US terms via a combination of increasing use of stats (which I imagine take some cues from US sport) and also women's 'soccer' having a bigger US influence so maybe the terms are just more common there?
I don't think it matters. I prefer the older terms personally, but it doesn't bother me if people use different words. Not the end of the world, is it?
Souness is a bitter old twat.
Post by: LeeB on September 18, 2023, 08:56:03 AM
Post by: VILLA MOLE on September 18, 2023, 09:36:34 AM
Post by: Hillbilly on September 18, 2023, 10:38:20 AM
Post by: martyn ellis on September 18, 2023, 10:44:03 AM
See Garth Crooks is also siding with MOTD chums, even if he did put Dougie in his team of the week.
Only put him in so he can put his two penneth in. The ref didn't take 5 minutes to make the decision, he did it in 1 second. It was 5 minutes of trying to convince him otherwise.
Except he goes the whole hog and makes it sound as though it was a travesty of a decision, when it's clear the player fouls Ollie, THEN touches the ball and then brings Ollie down. As I said on an earlier post, a group of Palace fans on the way back to London all agreed when they looked at it that it was a pen. The ref was generally awful all game but on that he was perfectly correct and carefully checked to make sure he hadn't got it wrong; but thanks Mr Crooks for your kind words on Douglas Luiz.
Post by: martyn ellis on September 18, 2023, 10:46:31 AM
Douglas Luiz (Aston Villa): I thought that Crystal Palace assistant manager Paddy McCarthy's analysis on the penalty awarded to Villa was spot on. Any referee who needs five minutes to make a decision must have sufficient doubts, but that didn't stop Darren England from compounding his error of judgment.
The only thing I can say in his defence that it was his error and his alone. The tackle by defender Chris Richards was superb and casts doubt in my mind as to whether Mr England knows the difference between a good and bad challenge.
The penalty was a big moment and a game changer. Douglas Luiz makes my team not just because he converts the penalty so emphatically but also as a result of his performance, which was thoroughly professional throughout. His calm, steady and consistent approach has helped to transform Villa since the arrival of Unai Emery.
Post by: Pete3206 on September 18, 2023, 10:50:06 AM
Just watched MOTD. All 3 pundits claim the pen was 'tough' on Palace. Whatever.
If that pen had been awarded against Villa I'd be yelling my head off. He clearly gets the ball well before his leg collides with Olly
Disagree. Stonewall for me.
Post by: Monty on September 18, 2023, 10:51:28 AM
Post by: AV84 on September 18, 2023, 10:51:37 AM
Post by: paul_e on September 18, 2023, 10:54:46 AM
Re Kamara, while sitting on the bench.
To me it looked as is he was reflecting on his performance, purely based on the same vacant look I end up with when things have not gone according to my plans.
I hope it was not him being annoyed with being substituted, as it was obvious when we lost our composure that his performance, at that time, was not particularly great and he is capable of much better displays.
If he adapts, then he will improve. If not he may become another Buendia, good and frustrating in equal measure and always one that will be targeted for substitution.
I might be wrong but I didn’t think he got taken off because of his performance, but more because Emery decided we didn’t need a 6 on the pitch anymore given Palaces tactics of sotting deep.
I think you might be right, Kamara wasn't having a great game but a big part of that was that he had nothing much to do of the job that he's really there for. I think he was asked to keep an eye on Eze which also meant he ended up out of position a lot as Eze was playing on the left for them.
Post by: Somniloquism on September 18, 2023, 10:59:32 AM
So did Crooks only include Dougie so he could rant about the penalty?
Yes. When he includes a player, but barely talks about the performance, he has done it so he can comment on some other item.
Post by: paul_e on September 18, 2023, 11:01:49 AM
So did Crooks only include Dougie so he could rant about the penalty?
Yes. When he includes a player, but barely talks about the performance, he has done it so he can comment on some other item.
It's been a long time since i've even looked at his team of the week without seeing it mentioned on here, the guy is an imbecile who should've had that job taken away years ago.
Post by: LeeB on September 18, 2023, 11:04:01 AM
Post by: Drummond on September 18, 2023, 11:05:27 AM
This is a really good look at the penalty. Ollie clearly touches the ball and then gets taken out. There isn’t much more to discuss.
https://x.com/maxcpfc21/status/1703140513493250084?s=46
Look at the defenders hand too, he's pulling on Watkins' arm.
Post by: Drummond on September 18, 2023, 11:09:10 AM
Well I had never heard of it before so I thought it was just some trendy saying. But it doesn’t even describe what it actually is. A low block is either a three storey dwelling or a driveway paving arrangement.
It was something I noticed when Emma Hayes was commentating, she kept saying "defending low" & using the word "transition" over & over.
Which would suggest that female coaches use some differing terminology than males.
Not sure why terms like "defending deep" needs to be changed, but "transition" is a good way of describing teams transferring possession.
Im not a fan of Emma Hayes. Granted she is successful, but she just reminds me of Lee Hendrie when talking.
I like Alex Scott. Insightful.
Just hearing Alex Scott's voice irritates me beyond what is reasonable.
Post by: OCD on September 18, 2023, 11:44:00 AM
Post by: OCD on September 18, 2023, 11:56:51 AM
Post by: baddowvillans on September 18, 2023, 12:02:13 PM
Only issue from the Villa game raised, was the Villa shout for a penalty for hamd ball - understandably no penalty was the verdict.
Post by: Drummond on September 18, 2023, 12:02:48 PM
Post by: baddowvillans on September 18, 2023, 12:04:55 PM
Garth Crooks talks about needing 5 minutes to decide whether it was a penalty but the penalty was given and they spent 5 minutes trying to work out whether there was enough evidence to overrule the decision. Darren England concluded that there wasn't.
This aspect was also misunderstood by the Palace coach who unwittingly disproved their own argument as the Ref saw nothing in those five minutes to change his mind that the correct decision was a penalty.
Crooks makes a fool of himself by presenting it as a travesty of justice.
Post by: pablo_picasso on September 18, 2023, 12:15:02 PM
Just hearing Alex Scott's voice irritates me beyond what is reasonable.
Emma Hayes, Lee Hendrie & Andy Hinchcliffe do that to me...
I like Alex Scott too. IMO the best pundit on TV, as you said she tends to be a tad more insightful than the usual ex-pros.Well I had never heard of it before so I thought it was just some trendy saying. But it doesn’t even describe what it actually is. A low block is either a three storey dwelling or a driveway paving arrangement.
It was something I noticed when Emma Hayes was commentating, she kept saying "defending low" & using the word "transition" over & over.
Which would suggest that female coaches use some differing terminology than males.
Not sure why terms like "defending deep" needs to be changed, but "transition" is a good way of describing teams transferring possession.
Im not a fan of Emma Hayes. Granted she is successful, but she just reminds me of Lee Hendrie when talking.
I like Alex Scott. Insightful.
As for the terminology, maybe it's crept in from US terms via a combination of increasing use of stats (which I imagine take some cues from US sport) and also women's 'soccer' having a bigger US influence so maybe the terms are just more common there?
I don't think it matters. I prefer the older terms personally, but it doesn't bother me if people use different words. Not the end of the world, is it?
Souness is a bitter old twat.
I quite like Eni Aluko too.
There is a documentary about a new female team being set up in America that I watched where she was director of football for them for a while. She stood for nothing other than the best, which clashed with the coach a little. I think the role was probably the wrong timing for her. I don't doubt she could be really good at the job, but to demand so much as a startup, seemed overly ambitious. I would like to see her do the role at a more established club & see how she does.
And thats a good point regarding it maybe coming from America to female coaches.
Agreed about it not being the end of the world. I quite like the term "transition".
Post by: LeeB on September 18, 2023, 12:17:55 PM
Post by: 85kota on September 18, 2023, 12:20:04 PM
Post by: pablo_picasso on September 18, 2023, 12:26:26 PM
Just to clarify - from Garth Crooks:
Douglas Luiz (Aston Villa): I thought that Crystal Palace assistant manager Paddy McCarthy's analysis on the penalty awarded to Villa was spot on. Any referee who needs five minutes to make a decision must have sufficient doubts, but that didn't stop Darren England from compounding his error of judgment.
And yet the rules to overturn his decision mean that the error has to be "clear & obvious".
Any referee who needs five minutes to make a decision must not see a "clear & obvious" error.
Therefore, penalty...
And thats without the fact that it was still a penalty, with or without VAR, because feathering the ball with your toenail fluff & then going through the man to kick the ball means that its a foul whichever way you look at it.
And Im not convinced he even got his toenail fluff on the ball tbh...
Post by: OCD on September 18, 2023, 12:33:37 PM
Just to clarify - from Garth Crooks:
Douglas Luiz (Aston Villa): I thought that Crystal Palace assistant manager Paddy McCarthy's analysis on the penalty awarded to Villa was spot on. Any referee who needs five minutes to make a decision must have sufficient doubts, but that didn't stop Darren England from compounding his error of judgment.
And yet the rules to overturn his decision mean that the error has to be "clear & obvious".
Any referee who needs five minutes to make a decision must not see a "clear & obvious" error.
Therefore, penalty...
And thats without the fact that it was still a penalty, with or without VAR, because feathering the ball with your toenail fluff & then going through the man to kick the ball means that its a foul whichever way you look at it.
And Im not convinced he even got his toenail fluff on the ball tbh...
I would put a countdown timer on VAR. If it takes longer, than say a minute, it's not a clear and obvious and the on-field decision stands.
Post by: Smithy on September 18, 2023, 12:41:34 PM
1. The defender makes a VERY slight touch on Watkins' shin, followed by a VERY slight touch on the ball. The ball remains under Ollie's control.
2. The defender takes Ollie out, followed by clearing the ball.
You can look at it two ways, either point 1 means a very minor contact was first with the attacker's leg, so it's a pen, or both contacts in point 1 were insufficient for the ref to blow his whistle at all, in which case we move to point 2, and it's definitely a pen.
There is an incorrect assumption that if a defender "touches" the ball, it can't be a pen or a foul, but that's simply not true. If the touch is just that - a touch - but the ball is still under the complete control of the attacker, then any subsequent touch is a foul.
I was surprised - and delighted - to see a ref stick to his original decision after going to the monitor. It's been one of VAR's biggest problems that the on-field ref ALWAYS changes their mind having gone to the monitor, so it was great to see one stick with his original assumption.
Post by: The Edge on September 18, 2023, 12:50:56 PM
I like this idea. I'd also do away with those poxy lines on the screen for offside. If it's not obvious by watching a couple of replays the goal stands. They're guessing as it is because you can't accurately say when the ball is accurately played. Moving it just one frame forwards or backwards makes a player on or off. It's totally open to bias.Just to clarify - from Garth Crooks:
Douglas Luiz (Aston Villa): I thought that Crystal Palace assistant manager Paddy McCarthy's analysis on the penalty awarded to Villa was spot on. Any referee who needs five minutes to make a decision must have sufficient doubts, but that didn't stop Darren England from compounding his error of judgment.
And yet the rules to overturn his decision mean that the error has to be "clear & obvious".
Any referee who needs five minutes to make a decision must not see a "clear & obvious" error.
Therefore, penalty...
And thats without the fact that it was still a penalty, with or without VAR, because feathering the ball with your toenail fluff & then going through the man to kick the ball means that its a foul whichever way you look at it.
And Im not convinced he even got his toenail fluff on the ball tbh...
I would put a countdown timer on VAR. If it takes longer, than say a minute, it's not a clear and obvious and the on-field decision stands.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on September 18, 2023, 12:55:25 PM
Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 18, 2023, 12:57:55 PM
Post by: olaftab on September 18, 2023, 01:03:54 PM
Post by: dave shelley on September 18, 2023, 01:04:28 PM
Post by: itbrvilla on September 18, 2023, 01:05:54 PM
The outrage over the penalty and the over analysis reminds me of this one from 2010. Yeah he touched the ball with his toenail, but then scythes down the attacking player in the box - penalty every day of the week.
https://www.facebook.com/avfcofficial/videos/otd-2010-aston-villa-1-0-birmingham-city/227162735272037/
Post by: pablo_picasso on September 18, 2023, 01:12:35 PM
Just to clarify - from Garth Crooks:
Douglas Luiz (Aston Villa): I thought that Crystal Palace assistant manager Paddy McCarthy's analysis on the penalty awarded to Villa was spot on. Any referee who needs five minutes to make a decision must have sufficient doubts, but that didn't stop Darren England from compounding his error of judgment.
And yet the rules to overturn his decision mean that the error has to be "clear & obvious".
Any referee who needs five minutes to make a decision must not see a "clear & obvious" error.
Therefore, penalty...
And thats without the fact that it was still a penalty, with or without VAR, because feathering the ball with your toenail fluff & then going through the man to kick the ball means that its a foul whichever way you look at it.
And Im not convinced he even got his toenail fluff on the ball tbh...
I would put a countdown timer on VAR. If it takes longer, than say a minute, it's not a clear and obvious and the on-field decision stands.
Yeah, I agree.
Would sort out the "clear & obvious"issue of each decision...
Post by: Simon Page on September 18, 2023, 01:18:24 PM
We could always bin VAR.
Post by: LeeB on September 18, 2023, 01:19:58 PM
Only if the Horne Section played the countdown music. The crowd would be encouraged to shout down from 10. Refs would be under pressure to make a quick, rather than correct decision. It'd be hell.
We could always bin VAR.
Exactly my thoughts, they'll just rush through the wrong decision instead.
Post by: lovejoy on September 18, 2023, 01:20:32 PM
It was a pen, having minimal contact with the ball ( if there was any contact) does not allow you to then play the man, if he had got meaningful contact with the ball, diverted the ball away from Watkins before colliding with him, then it would be a legitimate tackle. He didn’t, it wasn’t, Penalty.
Unless you're Solly March at VP a few seasons ago, late on.
You are right though, skimming the ball then going through the player is still a foul.
Post by: LeeB on September 18, 2023, 01:24:14 PM
Anyway, fuck these funeralled fuckers, that's pay back for that insane disallowed Lansbury goal at their place a few years back.
The penalty they got last season down there was a joke and wouldn't be given now, although we were so bad that day we deserved it.
Post by: mrfuse on September 18, 2023, 01:31:40 PM
Just to clarify - from Garth Crooks:
Douglas Luiz (Aston Villa): I thought that Crystal Palace assistant manager Paddy McCarthy's analysis on the penalty awarded to Villa was spot on. Any referee who needs five minutes to make a decision must have sufficient doubts, but that didn't stop Darren England from compounding his error of judgment.
And yet the rules to overturn his decision mean that the error has to be "clear & obvious".
Any referee who needs five minutes to make a decision must not see a "clear & obvious" error.
Therefore, penalty...
And thats without the fact that it was still a penalty, with or without VAR, because feathering the ball with your toenail fluff & then going through the man to kick the ball means that its a foul whichever way you look at it.
And Im not convinced he even got his toenail fluff on the ball tbh...
I would put a countdown timer on VAR. If it takes longer, than say a minute, it's not a clear and obvious and the on-field decision stands.
Yeah, I agree.
Would sort out the "clear & obvious"issue of each decision...
This is my view on VAR that a timer should be involved especially for offsides. In an offsides call there should be a 30 second timer with a view from a correct angle with no lines drawn and if you cant tell in that time its onside.
Having a timer would speed up the process for fans and also could be a get out for officials who could just say well within the time limit we had to make a decision.
In my mind VAR was supposed reduce really obvious errors not micro manage the game, but as with the handball rule its got itself tied up in knots
Post by: OCD on September 18, 2023, 01:34:31 PM
Only if the Horne Section played the countdown music. The crowd would be encouraged to shout down from 10. Refs would be under pressure to make a quick, rather than correct decision. It'd be hell.
We could always bin VAR.
Exactly my thoughts, they'll just rush through the wrong decision instead.
If it takes 5 minutes to re-referee a decision, it wasn't a clear and obvious error to begin with.
Post by: simon ward 50 on September 18, 2023, 02:12:50 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 18, 2023, 02:45:10 PM
Post by: supertom on September 18, 2023, 03:20:46 PM
Post by: Somniloquism on September 18, 2023, 04:13:20 PM
Offsides get far too much weight in this discussion than they should have. With a fairly minor amount of cost and effort (given the size of the league) you could pretty much fully automate it because it's both binary and entirely objective (other than the discussion over whether someone is interfering or not).
Was it the last world cup where they had "virtualised pitches" and a sensor in the ball so the computer replicates the players positions as soon as the ball is registered as hit. Not sure what it would take to fit the cameras across all 20 stadia, especially when someone like Luton appears, but it takes some of the fractions of a frame out of the equation then.
Post by: PaulTheVillan on September 18, 2023, 04:14:20 PM
Fuck it. We benefited. So I don’t care.
Post by: N'ZMAV on September 18, 2023, 04:18:36 PM
Garth Crooks is a thick ******. The fact that he's being paid by BBC to do this useless team of the week crap by people who should know better and not waste Licence payers money is a diabolical state.he is a fucking shambles
Post by: Drummond on September 18, 2023, 04:19:30 PM
Post by: villadelph on September 18, 2023, 04:19:53 PM
Well done Villa.
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 18, 2023, 04:20:24 PM
Post by: paul_e on September 18, 2023, 04:24:49 PM
After this match, we now have the 3rd highest xG (I know, I know) across the top 5 leagues only behind Many Citehad and Barcelona.. Brighton a close fourth.
Well done Villa.
Seems fair to me, we've created loads of chances in pretty much every game, only really Liverpool where you could argue we didn't do enough at that end.
Post by: AV84 on September 18, 2023, 04:31:11 PM
After this match, we now have the 3rd highest xG (I know, I know) across the top 5 leagues only behind Many Citehad and Barcelona.. Brighton a close fourth.
Well done Villa.
Seems fair to me, we've created loads of chances in pretty much every game, only really Liverpool where you could argue we didn't do enough at that end.
This was a point Emery made after the game. He said previous weeks we took those chances and had the game pretty much won after 20 minutes. Obviously against Liverpool we didn't create much at all, and then first half against Palace we didn't take the chances, but generally speaking we're creating loads of opportunities to score.
Post by: pablo_picasso on September 18, 2023, 04:59:26 PM
After this match, we now have the 3rd highest xG (I know, I know) across the top 5 leagues only behind Many Citehad and Barcelona.. Brighton a close fourth.
Well done Villa.
Break out the champers... 😉
Post by: VillaTim on September 18, 2023, 05:06:39 PM
After this match, we now have the 3rd highest xG (I know, I know) across the top 5 leagues only behind Many Citehad and Barcelona.. Brighton a close fourth.Imagine where we'd be if we had a clinical striker
Well done Villa.
Post by: Simon Page on September 18, 2023, 05:12:33 PM
Post by: Bad English on September 18, 2023, 05:23:30 PM
That would definitely improve operations.After this match, we now have the 3rd highest xG (I know, I know) across the top 5 leagues only behind Many Citehad and Barcelona.. Brighton a close fourth.Imagine where we'd be if we had a clinical striker
Well done Villa.
Post by: Villafirst on September 18, 2023, 07:32:49 PM
Post by: olaftab on September 18, 2023, 07:37:29 PM
Think back to August 2019 at Selhurst Park. Remember Kevin Friend booking Jack for diving resulting in Henri Lansbury's goal being disallowed? This cost us a draw and a point. To me, last Saturday was a bit of redemption/payback for that cruel decision.No, none of what you have said. Kevin Friend fucked up big time at Selhurst Park, Darren England got it absolutely right. This is not redemption/payback or karma etc. We still need that score to be settled.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 18, 2023, 07:37:47 PM
Post by: frankmosswasmyuncle on September 18, 2023, 07:48:55 PM
We've suffered enough at the hands of Kane, Salah etc ("he's entitled to go down" shite) when there's been little, if any, contact...the defender fouled Watkins in the process of trying to play the ball.
Penalty.
Post by: baddowvillans on September 18, 2023, 09:58:18 PM
All I'll say about the penalty is that I'd have been annoyed if it had been up the other end. I can see the argument for it being so and not being a pen, but we'll see this happen against us I'm sure. Within a week you'll see a very similar challenge in a game go to VAR and not get given. It's like the Gordon pen in Newcastle Brentford compared to one that was denied for Brentford a few weeks back. Consistency is dire.
I just don't get that thinking. Just look at what actually happens and its a clear penalty no matter what shirt the defender is wearing.
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on September 18, 2023, 10:16:30 PM
All I'll say about the penalty is that I'd have been annoyed if it had been up the other end. I can see the argument for it being so and not being a pen, but we'll see this happen against us I'm sure. Within a week you'll see a very similar challenge in a game go to VAR and not get given. It's like the Gordon pen in Newcastle Brentford compared to one that was denied for Brentford a few weeks back. Consistency is dire.
I just don't get that thinking. Just look at what actually happens and its a clear penalty no matter what shirt the defender is wearing.
It's because he just grazes the ball, which shouldn't mean it isn't a pen but close to always does, that's the problem. I think he is right, you will see ones when that graze is justified in not giving the pen. I don't agree with it, it's bollocks but you can tell by how most of the pundits have spoken about it and even though they are ex players they seem to fall for it.
Post by: Pat McMahon on September 18, 2023, 10:39:23 PM
Just to clarify - from Garth Crooks:
Douglas Luiz (Aston Villa): I thought that Crystal Palace assistant manager Paddy McCarthy's analysis on the penalty awarded to Villa was spot on. Any referee who needs five minutes to make a decision must have sufficient doubts, but that didn't stop Darren England from compounding his error of judgment.
And yet the rules to overturn his decision mean that the error has to be "clear & obvious".
Any referee who needs five minutes to make a decision must not see a "clear & obvious" error.
Therefore, penalty...
And thats without the fact that it was still a penalty, with or without VAR, because feathering the ball with your toenail fluff & then going through the man to kick the ball means that its a foul whichever way you look at it.
And Im not convinced he even got his toenail fluff on the ball tbh...
I would put a countdown timer on VAR. If it takes longer, than say a minute, it's not a clear and obvious and the on-field decision stands.
Agreed, I’ve been saying this for a year now.
Post by: dcdavecollett on September 23, 2023, 08:12:38 PM
We noticed he was going through the agonies of hell while we waited the five minutes to discover whether it was a penalty or not, slumping in his seat with his head in his hands.
After the game, we had a chat while we were queueing up to get to the aisle and he said that Villa meant so much to him that the results define what sort of a week he's going to have. The look on his girlfriend's face suggested this was entirely true.
Just as well England got it right, then!