Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: SoccerHQ on September 03, 2023, 06:59:49 PM
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I've seen this comment a few times crop up in the match threads this season today and at Newcastle.
Now while I don't want to just dismiss or sugar-coat bad defeats I'm genuinely curious why people think we're apparently so good now that we were never going to lose by 3 or 4 goal margin ever again seemingly at clubs who have actually qualified for better european competitions than us.
Newcastle was a bad defeat but in mitigation we lose our leader at the back at 2-1 and actually created a decent amount of chances but got found out in basketball match.
Today we were second best from the first whistle and very bad idea to concede early away to Liverpool as it's near impossible to get a foothold on the match.
It was pretty identical to Man. City away last season other than not scoring a consolation.
We have our best manager for decades and some really good players but people do realise teams who actually finish top 4 at this level have a few games like this per season aswell?
Newcastle got battered by us at VP as badly as we did up there but they just brushed it off as a one off (until the same happened v Brighton).
Think back to 12 months ago when we had an expensive squad playing rubbish football under a fraud of a manager. That's the context and hopefully those days are behind us with the decision making at the top now.
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Spot on. I also saw a few “reality check” comments - maybe for those who got ahead of themselves.
We got well beaten at Anfield, with a makeshift defence still bedding in, by a team that most expect to push City all the way this year. It’s not unexpected.
We are a million miles better than we have been for so, so long. You don’t have to look in the rear view mirror for too long before you see the 3-0 embarrassment at Craven Cottage less than a year ago.
I get the passion, the hope but some of the commentary is unreal.
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Every side in the PL bar Man City have a few shit days and results. We spent years doing it most weeks, now that it happens a lot less the reaction is a bit more dramatic. It's what football fans do, create unrealistic expectations and overreact when it goes wrong.
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I think comments such as those are frustration that we aren't moving forward quite as fast as some would like. We live in a pretty much instant world and Villa being a dominant force will not happen instantly. Even Man City took two or three years before starting to win thing regularly and we, thankfully, aren't working to their model.
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It’s just a worry that last season under Emery we were competitive in more or less every game and had a really mean defence. Now we’ve lost 2/4 and been absolutely thrashed in the defeats with no answer in those matches to even look remotely competitive.
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I don't think it's a case of saying 'those days are behind us' or not. As has been pointed out, Man Utd got smacked into oblivion in their equivalent fixture last year and finished third (and, incidentally, have had a very similar start to us this year). Newcastle themselves had an only marginally better showing than we did at Brighton yesterday - indeed, our 3-0 against them at VP last year was similar to today's total control.
It happens. They're better than us and even so, any of the teams in this top nine can do this to each other. It's just concerning that certain players Emery's clearly bet a lot on do not look reliable at that very top level, and that he's got his tactics wrong twice in exactly the same way - or at least that the players failed to execute in exactly the same way.
These are issues, but let's be very very real, they're nice issues to have compared to what we've had in the recent past!
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Every team has those days.
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I think comments such as those are frustration that we aren't moving forward quite as fast as some would like. We live in a pretty much instant world and Villa being a dominant force will not happen instantly. Even Man City took two or three years before starting to win thing regularly and we, thankfully, aren't working to their model.
We are moving forward though. In three years we went from surviving relegation by the skin of our teeth to qualifying for europe.
With more logical thinking post Smith we could've done it a season earlier aswell.
If we beat Palace and get something at Chelsea we'll have at least 10 points from first 6 games so on course for another 60 point season which will have us in the mix for top 6.
If people think we're good enough now for 70-75 point range I just think that's too early especially with the disruptive injuries we've already suffered.
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It’s just a worry that last season under Emery we were competitive in more or less every game and had a really mean defence. Now we’ve lost 2/4 and been absolutely thrashed in the defeats with no answer in those matches to even look remotely competitive.
We weren't competitive Man. City away. Bar consolation goal it panned out exactly the same as today did and there were loads of comments after that game saying there wasn't enough progress.
We then played really well a week later v Arsenal but lost and again there were plenty of negative comments after that but we used that as a springboard and went on the glorious 10 match unbeaten run.
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Last season Liverpool lost at home to Leeds, lost to Forest and Bournemouth and got dicked by Brentford, Wolves, Brighton and Man City.
Man Utd got dicked by Brentford, Man City, us and Liverpool.
Look at the car crash of Chelsea most of the season )and hopefully still), and Spurs the last part of it. It happens.
Enjoy that it doesn't happen to us very often and instead we often dish them out, rather than worrying when it does happen to us.
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Spot on. I also saw a few “reality check” comments - maybe for those who got ahead of themselves.
We got well beaten at Anfield, with a makeshift defence still bedding in, by a team that most expect to push City all the way this year. It’s not unexpected.
We are a million miles better than we have been for so, so long. You don’t have to look in the rear view mirror for too long before you see the 3-0 embarrassment at Craven Cottage less than a year ago.
I get the passion, the hope but some of the commentary is unreal.
It is a reality check, though, isn't it? Following the logic of the rest of your post, which is all fair.
Not sure why you'd pick up on the reality check thing as something unusual?
It's surely what you go on to say.
Unless I am missing something, and I probably am.
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Spot on. I also saw a few “reality check” comments - maybe for those who got ahead of themselves.
We got well beaten at Anfield, with a makeshift defence still bedding in, by a team that most expect to push City all the way this year. It’s not unexpected.
We are a million miles better than we have been for so, so long. You don’t have to look in the rear view mirror for too long before you see the 3-0 embarrassment at Craven Cottage less than a year ago.
I get the passion, the hope but some of the commentary is unreal.
It is a reality check, though, isn't it? Following the logic of the rest of your post, which is all fair.
Not sure why you'd pick up on the reality check thing as something unusual?
It's surely what you go on to say.
Unless I am missing something, and I probably am.
Reality checks happened for Man Utd and Newcastle this weekend too. We're above both! It's fine, they happen, team needs to adapt. Nobody's really wailing or gnashing their teeth on this, it's just how it is.
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It is a reality check in the sense that we cannot go to teams that finished in the top 5 and not be at it. Emery knows the Newcastle and Liverpool games are well below we need to be. I’m confident he’ll sort it and I’m also confident that come the end of the season we’ll be pondering why we ever questioned Torres.
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It is how it is, but I'm a Villa fan and I'm starting to worry that when we try to make a good thing great, we end up making it worse.
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Spot on. I also saw a few “reality check” comments - maybe for those who got ahead of themselves.
We got well beaten at Anfield, with a makeshift defence still bedding in, by a team that most expect to push City all the way this year. It’s not unexpected.
We are a million miles better than we have been for so, so long. You don’t have to look in the rear view mirror for too long before you see the 3-0 embarrassment at Craven Cottage less than a year ago.
I get the passion, the hope but some of the commentary is unreal.
It is a reality check, though, isn't it? Following the logic of the rest of your post, which is all fair.
Not sure why you'd pick up on the reality check thing as something unusual?
It's surely what you go on to say.
Unless I am missing something, and I probably am.
Thats fair. I guess it's the context of the phrase used. Before the game, despite the tremendous improvement we have seen since Unai arrived, and our improved squad, I thought we'd do very well to get a draw. I think they are a better side than us, the Mings injury is a big miss, and at Anfield it would be a formidable challenge. So my hope / expectation was based on that. It doesn't feel like a 'reality check' to me that we lost - and as SoccerHQ says, a 'bad' defeat can happen to any side in the PL.
Maybe those who see it differently can explain their rationale?
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Maybe those who see it differently can explain their rationale?
It's only two games, but we've been really badly beaten in both of them. The set up wasn't right, and when things started to go badly we had no answer in either of them. In addition, Watkins is on a run of 1 goal in 11 games, but yet again we didn't bring in another striker. Duran looks so far away from being ready for the Premier League it's not even funny.
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That is it, though, the reality check is we're playing a really, really good side, who will very possibly challenge for the title, at their place.
There is every chance they will beat us - someone posted the other day how long it is since they lost at home - so we've seen that we've still got a lot of work to do, despite all the amazing progress so far, and it doesn't impinge on that progress.
I imagine Newcastle also got a reality check last night, too, cock-a-hoop over their Champions League draw then they go and get murdered at Brighton, but just as that result won't really mean anything for the progress they have made, neither will ours today.
I'd also say that really, you can't hold anyone to things said in the heat of a match thread, or the early pages of a post-match. People are wound up and upset and not thinking logically. It is just human nature.
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Maybe those who see it differently can explain their rationale?
It's only two games, but we've been really badly beaten in both of them. The set up wasn't right, and when things started to go badly we had no answer in either of them. In addition, Watkins is on a run of 1 goal in 11 games, but yet again we didn't bring in another striker. Duran looks so far away from being ready for the Premier League it's not even funny.
Without taking away your valid points, I actually did find it funny when Duran tried the second time.
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Maybe those who see it differently can explain their rationale?
It's only two games, but we've been really badly beaten in both of them. The set up wasn't right, and when things started to go badly we had no answer in either of them. In addition, Watkins is on a run of 1 goal in 11 games, but yet again we didn't bring in another striker. Duran looks so far away from being ready for the Premier League it's not even funny.
Without taking away your valid points, I actually did find it funny when Duran tried the second time.
True, you need a bit of gallows humour at times like that.
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It is a bad couple of games, but I’ve seen more than enough from Emery to believe he gets that and can correct it. The performances were horrible, but there’s every chance we’d have lost both games if we played well. We just need to show we’ve learned our lessons.
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It’s just a worry that last season under Emery we were competitive in more or less every game and had a really mean defence. Now we’ve lost 2/4 and been absolutely thrashed in the defeats with no answer in those matches to even look remotely competitive.
We did ship 8 goals in quick succession last season against Leicester and Arsenal under Emery before going on a very decent run. Hopefully like last season we learn from these defeats.
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And it's not important in the grand scale of things, but I hate going into the international break on the back of a defeat. Even more so when it's a proper hiding.
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And it's not important in the grand scale of things, but I hate going into the international break on the back of a defeat. Even more so when it's a proper hiding.
Completely agree on that. And it’s a minor quibble, but I take umbrage at the fact we’ve had 3 out of first 4 games away and 2 of those against top 5 teams.
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It’s just a worry that last season under Emery we were competitive in more or less every game and had a really mean defence. Now we’ve lost 2/4 and been absolutely thrashed in the defeats with no answer in those matches to even look remotely competitive.
We did ship 8 goals in quick succession last season against Leicester and Arsenal under Emery before going on a very decent run. Hopefully like last season we learn from these defeats.
They felt different though. Arsenal we were actually winning for the first hour, and only chucked a point away in injury time. Leicester again we were winning but made four terrible individual errors. The set up and majority of the play in both games was generally fine. To be fair Newcastle wasn't actually as bad as today, because we played well in parts up there. Today was woeful though, and lessons clearly weren't learned from the opening day.
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And it's not important in the grand scale of things, but I hate going into the international break on the back of a defeat. Even more so when it's a proper hiding.
Completely agree on that. And it’s a minor quibble, but I take umbrage at the fact we’ve had 3 out of first 4 games away and 2 of those against top 5 teams.
We asked for the away games though as the pitch had to recover from the summer activities.
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Away at Newcastle, Liverpool and Burnley, home to Everton, and getting six points is also far from disastrous.
It's just a bit more underwhelming because of the nature of the Newcastle game, which was a very particular set of circumstances. We were in the game until Mings went off, and I think it is very easy to underestimate the. psychological impact of seeing your leader go off the pitch after ten minutes on the deck, and sporting an oxygen mask, having seen the same thing on the training pitch with another popular player a few days before.
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Maybe we thought the days of being cannon fodder to the 'big clubs' were seen as a thing of the past. Nature of the defeats though is what worries me. Once we go a goal down we look weak minded. No natural leader out there without Tyrone.
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And it's not important in the grand scale of things, but I hate going into the international break on the back of a defeat. Even more so when it's a proper hiding.
Completely agree on that. And it’s a minor quibble, but I take umbrage at the fact we’ve had 3 out of first 4 games away and 2 of those against top 5 teams.
We asked for the away games though as the pitch had to recover from the summer activities.
Ah fair enough I didn’t know that.
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Not sure I buy the getting ahead of ourselves criticism. We all know that results are not guaranteed with top level football. The optimism was based on the managers pre match comments that we were going to Liverpool to test ourselves . Naturally no one was expecting an abject performance just a very competitive one.
I still remain confident that we will have a successful season.
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Maybe those who see it differently can explain their rationale?
It's only two games, but we've been really badly beaten in both of them. The set up wasn't right, and when things started to go badly we had no answer in either of them. In addition, Watkins is on a run of 1 goal in 11 games, but yet again we didn't bring in another striker. Duran looks so far away from being ready for the Premier League it's not even funny.
Without taking away your valid points, I actually did find it funny when Duran tried the second time.
My 13 year old rolled his eyes and i laughed out loud.
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Maybe those who see it differently can explain their rationale?
It's only two games, but we've been really badly beaten in both of them. The set up wasn't right, and when things started to go badly we had no answer in either of them. In addition, Watkins is on a run of 1 goal in 11 games, but yet again we didn't bring in another striker. Duran looks so far away from being ready for the Premier League it's not even funny.
Without taking away your valid points, I actually did find it funny when Duran tried the second time.
Would be funny if Archer hadn't hit two cracking shots the day before with technical ability that Duran can only dream of. He just charges around the place like a mad man.
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What was missing from the two defeats was Emery's ability to change the game. The substitutions had no effect on the games.
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I think we’ve got bigger problems off the pitch
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I think we’ve got bigger problems off the pitch
Such as?
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Spot on. I also saw a few “reality check” comments - maybe for those who got ahead of themselves.
We got well beaten at Anfield, with a makeshift defence still bedding in, by a team that most expect to push City all the way this year. It’s not unexpected.
We are a million miles better than we have been for so, so long. You don’t have to look in the rear view mirror for too long before you see the 3-0 embarrassment at Craven Cottage less than a year ago.
I get the passion, the hope but some of the commentary is unreal.
It wasn’t the fans that decided to go toe to toe with Liverpool at anfield.
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Spot on. I also saw a few “reality check” comments - maybe for those who got ahead of themselves.
We got well beaten at Anfield, with a makeshift defence still bedding in, by a team that most expect to push City all the way this year. It’s not unexpected.
We are a million miles better than we have been for so, so long. You don’t have to look in the rear view mirror for too long before you see the 3-0 embarrassment at Craven Cottage less than a year ago.
I get the passion, the hope but some of the commentary is unreal.
It wasn’t the fans that decided to go toe to toe with Liverpool at Anfield.
More comments like that and I don't need to post on here. I've yet to read a post of yours this season that I don't agree with 110%.
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He’s right. The thing is some of us are getting very old. It’s been virtually a generation since we won anything of note. We are impatient. We want to win something before we die. Why didn’t we just buy another fcuking striker. Instead of having a 19 year old MLS YTS trainee as the main back up.
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We may be but I get the feeling it's Unai that's impatient. I think he wants a winning team and thereafter build on it. There seems little faith/time for youth, it's all geared to experience and ideally somebody he or Monchi have worked with previously.
Ex: Acuña. 31/32 years old and his best years were probably at Sporting three years ago.
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Which makes it worrying. Out of all the strikers on the books before the window closed we’ve retained the worst one!
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Which makes it worrying. Out of all the strikers on the books before the window closed we’ve retained the worst one!
Duran is still very raw at prem level but he's shown in last few weeks he can contribute and score v moderate opposition.
I expect him to start the league cup match and at least 2 if not 3 europa matches so that will rest Ollie's legs for some premier league games as he certainly needs to do better in the next four league matches than what he's shown so far.
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That was as bad as anything Gerrard served up. As was Newcastle. The manager and team need to wake up now and get off easy street . Just winning a 3rd tier euro thing isn't good enough.
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I would be very happy winning the 3rd tier euro thing.
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There's a lot of panicking going on here.
I'd obviously rather we didn't lose 3-0, but a bit of perspective here - Liverpool will likely be challenging for the title. They're none too shabby a side, and they've hit form. We're in the middle of an injury crisis, and with all the will in the world are not going to be pushing Manchester City just yet.
I'd still rather us go to Anfield trying to win, than going with our tail between our legs hoping for a draw.
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We've spent over a decade being shit, at times very very shit, stinking out the division levels of shit. 10 months of being pretty good and suddenly winning our first trophy in 28 years wouldn't be good enough. The mind boggles. And we took the piss out of Wolves for their delusions.
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That was as bad as anything Gerrard served up. As was Newcastle. The manager and team need to wake up now and get off easy street . Just winning a 3rd tier euro thing isn't good enough.
Every villa manager will have performances like that. Ron probably had loads but no one remembers it for obvious reasons given he won the league and built the European cup winning team.
In 95/96 we lost 1-0 to Man. City and QPR within a month (didn't Nigel Spink randomly come on as outfield sub in the QPR match....) who both got relegated but no one remembers those games due to us winning our last major trophy two months later.
Also lost 2-0 at Sheff Weds a week before said final and then 3 of our last four matches of that season.
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I would be very happy winning the 3rd tier euro thing.
Me too but I want league progression too. We have to be in the Europa League next season. Final is in Bilbao, Unai's turf, a home return, it's what dreams and Aston Villa are made of. It will be Rotterdam all over again, ever local will welcome us with open arms and want us to win. And we will.
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I would be very happy winning the 3rd tier euro thing.
Me too but I want league progression too. We have to be in the Europa League next season. Final is in Bilbao, Unai's turf, a home return, it's what dreams and Aston Villa are made of. It will be Rotterdam all over again, ever local will welcome us with open arms and want us to win. And we will.
You qualify for europa by winning the Europa conference.
But I think 6th is also very realistic this season and won't be defined by losing at Anfield four games into the season.
Unai's a Real Sociedad man isn't he so don't think they'd be too keen on him winning at San Mames!
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The difference is that this season he's set us up in a more attacking way to try and impose ourselves on Newcastle and Liverpool, and it has failed because we are not there yet, and we have made some shit mistakes.
Emery needs to learn from these 2 games and move us forward with a bit more flexibility and pragmatism in certain games.
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Summed up perfectly, Ozz.
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Barely 3 months after being a minute away from a win at Anfield, putting in a gutsy and determined performance, we put in a diabolical showing like that. We're lucky that we didn't suffer a similar score line like Newton Heath or even Bournemouth last season.
It was absolute shite and I think fans have every right to ask 'What the fuck was that?' Losing is one thing, not turning up is unacceptable.
As for the OP's initial point which was very well made, match and post match threads are full of emotion and a lot of us have written a few choice words in the heat of the moment.
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There's a lot of panicking going on here.
I'd obviously rather we didn't lose 3-0, but a bit of perspective here - Liverpool will likely be challenging for the title. They're none too shabby a side, and they've hit form. We're in the middle of an injury crisis, and with all the will in the world are not going to be pushing Manchester City just yet.
I'd still rather us go to Anfield trying to win, than going with our tail between our legs hoping for a draw.
It’s that saying about respect the point which I think applies here. We have more than enough quality on the counter attack to hurt teams. We’re very effective dominating lesser teams but we’re not ready to go to anfield and do it. You take a point, you keep the run going, pin a side we were in contention with for European football last season back, disrupt their momentum and they’ve still to come to your place. It doesn’t mean putting 10 men behind the ball. Look how good we were away at Spurs and Brighton last season.
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It was a reality check for me. Was getting used to the fact that the aggregate in last 4 matches had us at 15-1. Turns out we can't extrapolate that for the rest of the season!
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That was as bad as anything Gerrard served up. As was Newcastle. The manager and team need to wake up now and get off easy street . Just winning a 3rd tier euro thing isn't good enough.
Winning that 3rd tier trophy takes you into the second tier tournament.
Winning breads winners and the club moves on if that happens. We’ve not been in Europe for years and yet already it sounds like it’s not worth being in.
I don’t know what’s expected this season but it won’t be finishing in the top 4. Emery is a top coach who will get it right like he has done for the majority of his time here. A few bad days doesn’t make us a bad team.
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It's not easy to lose Mings, Buendia, Moreno and Ramsey and caary on regardless.
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No shame losing at Anfield or indeed Newcastle but come on at least make a game of it.
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It's not easy to lose Mings, Buendia, Moreno and Ramsey and caary on regardless.
Just on that. Moreno did his hamstring didn’t he. Which again as we all predicted means 5 months out.
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It was the timidity, the lack of fight and urgency, the seeming inability to block out all the Anfield bullshit. We really miss Mings for his bearing and Ramsey and Buendia for their energy.
If we want to play at the top end we will have to offset the occasional loss to the Wolves and Brentfords with the odd win over ManU, Liverpool and the like. But it doesn’t look like happening.
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Watched a rerun of the match this morning when I woke up early.
Jesus Christ. How poor were Kamara, Mcginn, Torres, and Bailey, but to name a few. Mcginn is supposed to be our captain, but where was his fight? His leadership? Fucking crap
Bailey irritates the fuck out of me, but I've always thought (hoped) he'd click and it'd all work out. Atrocious yesterday. I'm glad Unai subbed the lazy, jogging around fucker.
I expect more from Ollie. Lead the line with a bit more gusto you lazy swine.
A rubbish result.
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Watched a rerun of the match this morning when I woke up early.
Jesus Christ. How poor were Kamara, Mcginn, Torres, and Bailey, but to name a few. Mcginn is supposed to be our captain, but where was his fight? His leadership? Fucking crap
Bailey irritates the fuck out of me, but I've always thought (hoped) he'd click and it'd all work out. Atrocious yesterday. I'm glad Unai subbed the lazy, jogging around fucker.
I expect more from Ollie. Lead the line with a bit more gusto you lazy swine.
A rubbish result.
A 'rerun'?
You've been in Japan too long, mate.
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Watched a rerun of the match this morning when I woke up early.
Jesus Christ. How poor were Kamara, Mcginn, Torres, and Bailey, but to name a few. Mcginn is supposed to be our captain, but where was his fight? His leadership? Fucking crap
Bailey irritates the fuck out of me, but I've always thought (hoped) he'd click and it'd all work out. Atrocious yesterday. I'm glad Unai subbed the lazy, jogging around fucker.
I expect more from Ollie. Lead the line with a bit more gusto you lazy swine.
A rubbish result.
A 'rerun'?
You've been in Japan too long, mate.
I don't understand your point, mate 😂
Have I used incorrect English, or do you think I was watching the game for a second time? I chose to follow the game on here, yesterday, rather than the stress of watching it on the telly
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Watched a rerun of the match this morning when I woke up early.
Jesus Christ. How poor were Kamara, Mcginn, Torres, and Bailey, but to name a few. Mcginn is supposed to be our captain, but where was his fight? His leadership? Fucking crap
Bailey irritates the fuck out of me, but I've always thought (hoped) he'd click and it'd all work out. Atrocious yesterday. I'm glad Unai subbed the lazy, jogging around fucker.
I expect more from Ollie. Lead the line with a bit more gusto you lazy swine.
A rubbish result.
A 'rerun'?
You've been in Japan too long, mate.
I don't understand your point, mate 😂
Have I used incorrect English, or do you think I was watching the game for a second time? I chose to follow the game on here, yesterday, rather than the stress of watching it on the telly
We call it a 'repeat', mate. 'Rerun' is something I imagine those insidious cultural colonisers the Americans introduced during their occupation.
I'm joking, of course, and I'm with you - I follow all of our games on here rather than subject myself to the stress of TV.
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Watched a rerun of the match this morning when I woke up early.
Jesus Christ. How poor were Kamara, Mcginn, Torres, and Bailey, but to name a few. Mcginn is supposed to be our captain, but where was his fight? His leadership? Fucking crap
Bailey irritates the fuck out of me, but I've always thought (hoped) he'd click and it'd all work out. Atrocious yesterday. I'm glad Unai subbed the lazy, jogging around fucker.
I expect more from Ollie. Lead the line with a bit more gusto you lazy swine.
A rubbish result.
A 'rerun'?
You've been in Japan too long, mate.
I don't understand your point, mate 😂
Have I used incorrect English, or do you think I was watching the game for a second time? I chose to follow the game on here, yesterday, rather than the stress of watching it on the telly
We call it a 'repeat', mate. 'Rerun' is something I imagine those insidious cultural colonisers the Americans introduced during their occupation.
I'm joking, of course, and I'm with you - I follow all of our games on here rather than subject myself to the stress of TV.
Oh right. I didn't know that, mate.
Have always used 'rerun' for football, but 'repeat' for TV. God only knows why.
Thinking about it, I've now spent more time abroad than back home in England 😂
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Watched a rerun of the match this morning when I woke up early.
Jesus Christ. How poor were Kamara, Mcginn, Torres, and Bailey, but to name a few. Mcginn is supposed to be our captain, but where was his fight? His leadership? Fucking crap
Bailey irritates the fuck out of me, but I've always thought (hoped) he'd click and it'd all work out. Atrocious yesterday. I'm glad Unai subbed the lazy, jogging around fucker.
I expect more from Ollie. Lead the line with a bit more gusto you lazy swine.
A rubbish result.
A 'rerun'?
You've been in Japan too long, mate.
I don't understand your point, mate 😂
Have I used incorrect English, or do you think I was watching the game for a second time? I chose to follow the game on here, yesterday, rather than the stress of watching it on the telly
We call it a 'repeat', mate. 'Rerun' is something I imagine those insidious cultural colonisers the Americans introduced during their occupation.
I'm joking, of course, and I'm with you - I follow all of our games on here rather than subject myself to the stress of TV.
Oh right. I didn't know that, mate.
Have always used 'rerun' for football, but 'repeat' for TV. God only knows why.
Thinking about it, I've now spent more time abroad than back home in England 😂
Probably for the best, buddy.
Apart from all the BO on trains that you post about. That doesn't sound too great.
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Which makes it worrying. Out of all the strikers on the books before the window closed we’ve retained the worst one!
Duran is still very raw at prem level but he's shown in last few weeks he can contribute and score v moderate opposition.
I expect him to start the league cup match and at least 2 if not 3 europa matches so that will rest Ollie's legs for some premier league games as he certainly needs to do better in the next four league matches than what he's shown so far.
I think the fact we spent so much on him is the problem. Too much egg on too many faces to ship him out on loan and either spend another £50m or retain our bright young academy player.
But tbf to him it was a good goal against Hibs and it's possible he'll develop quickly with minutes.
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I've seen this comment a few times crop up in the match threads this season today and at Newcastle.
Now while I don't want to just dismiss or sugar-coat bad defeats I'm genuinely curious why people think we're apparently so good now that we were never going to lose by 3 or 4 goal margin ever again seemingly at clubs who have actually qualified for better european competitions than us.
Newcastle was a bad defeat but in mitigation we lose our leader at the back at 2-1 and actually created a decent amount of chances but got found out in basketball match.
Today we were second best from the first whistle and very bad idea to concede early away to Liverpool as it's near impossible to get a foothold on the match.
It was pretty identical to Man. City away last season other than not scoring a consolation.
We have our best manager for decades and some really good players but people do realise teams who actually finish top 4 at this level have a few games like this per season aswell?
Newcastle got battered by us at VP as badly as we did up there but they just brushed it off as a one off (until the same happened v Brighton).
Think back to 12 months ago when we had an expensive squad playing rubbish football under a fraud of a manager. That's the context and hopefully those days are behind us with the decision making at the top now.
Is it about the scoreline?
I would imagine "those days" are more about the performance, rather than the result.
Lack of work-rate.
Lack of effort.
Lack of clue...
Etc.
Etc.
Etc...
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Oh do get a grip, honestly.
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Which makes it worrying. Out of all the strikers on the books before the window closed we’ve retained the worst one!
Duran is still very raw at prem level but he's shown in last few weeks he can contribute and score v moderate opposition.
I expect him to start the league cup match and at least 2 if not 3 europa matches so that will rest Ollie's legs for some premier league games as he certainly needs to do better in the next four league matches than what he's shown so far.
I think the fact we spent so much on him is the problem. Too much egg on too many faces to ship him out on loan and either spend another £50m or retain our bright young academy player.
But tbf to him it was a good goal against Hibs and it's possible he'll develop quickly with minutes.
Agree Chris. It was a fair bit of money on a kid, then they went to the effort of the special welcome with the video from JPA etc. All for somebody who doesn't really look as good as the other kids we already had.
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Oh do get a grip, honestly.
Who are you talking to?
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Oh do get a grip, honestly.
Who are you talking to?
Yourself! No effort? You think Ollie Watkins suddenly didn't care? Or that a very good team with a very good manager got the better of us?
No work rate? I'd bet their distance-run stats were absolutely huge, they just stuck us into a whole bunch of catch-22s all over the pitch.
No clue? We have one of the best and most tactically savvy and thorough managers, no joke, in the world. He was up against another of them, one with more resources over many more years to build a team, and whose team got a 2nd minute lead with a set-piece leading to a long shot.
Not saying it's all bad luck or whatever, but can we not be so silly.
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Likewise though Monty, people can criticise a game without them thinking that everything needs ripping up and starting again. Newcastle was supposed to be a one-off, but yesterday showed that we've got a few problems. Unai is a brilliant manager, but he didn't seem to have much of a clue how to turn things round yesterday. Putting on Bailey when Carlos was injured was a little bit daft, to put it politely. We'll be fine I'm sure, but two absolute gubbings after what was supposed to be a great summer transfer-wise is more than a bit galling.
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Oh do get a grip, honestly.
Who are you talking to?
Yourself! No effort? You think Ollie Watkins suddenly didn't care? Or that a very good team with a very good manager got the better of us?
No work rate? I'd bet their distance-run stats were absolutely huge, they just stuck us into a whole bunch of catch-22s all over the pitch.
No clue? We have one of the best and most tactically savvy and thorough managers, no joke, in the world. He was up against another of them, one with more resources over many more years to build a team, and whose team got a 2nd minute lead with a set-piece leading to a long shot.
Not saying it's all bad luck or whatever, but can we not be so silly.
How fucking dare you.
For starters, Im not the only person who have raised concerns in a game where we were absolute shite for 90 minutes.
For the second time this season.
So who the fuck do you think you are to tell me that I need to "get a grip" in a condescending prick tone?
Yesterday was shit. And that is being complementary to shit.
Not everything has to be ALL candy floss grass & lollipop trees.
Not everything has to be ALL doom & gloom.
Sometimes, there are shit things happening at the same time as good things.
And I don't need YOU to hold my fucking hand & give me your permission to voice my fucking opinion...
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Likewise though Monty, people can criticise a game without them thinking that everything needs ripping up and starting again. Newcastle was supposed to be a one-off, but yesterday showed that we've got a few problems. Unai is a brilliant manager, but he didn't seem to have much of a clue to turn things round yesterday. Putting on Bailey when Carlos was injured was a little bit daft, to put it politely. We'll be fine I'm sure, but two absolute gubbings after what was supposed to be a great summer transfer-wise is more than a bit galling.
Sure, but it's unrealistic to a slightly hysterical degree to think that we'll never have bad days against good teams. Even this weekend Newcastle got a little humiliated by Brighton, as they were by us in April, as we were by them a month ago...
Look around football, everywhere. Some days, it's not your day.
Edit: to quote Françoise Gilot - maybe go and take a breather, Pablo Picasso.
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Again though, it's the manner of the defeat. Newcastle were well in the match and had chances to go ahead. We were distinctly second best for the entire match. It happens as you say, but also as I said, it shows that the Newcastle match wasn't some random one off.
However, we've now got a run of fixtures that look quite kind, until the end of November/start of December.
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I think we've just had a Guernica moment.
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Oh do get a grip, honestly.
Who are you talking to?
Yourself! No effort? You think Ollie Watkins suddenly didn't care? Or that a very good team with a very good manager got the better of us?
No work rate? I'd bet their distance-run stats were absolutely huge, they just stuck us into a whole bunch of catch-22s all over the pitch.
No clue? We have one of the best and most tactically savvy and thorough managers, no joke, in the world. He was up against another of them, one with more resources over many more years to build a team, and whose team got a 2nd minute lead with a set-piece leading to a long shot.
Not saying it's all bad luck or whatever, but can we not be so silly.
How fucking dare you.
For starters, Im not the only person who have raised concerns in a game where we were absolute shite for 90 minutes.
For the second time this season.
So who the fuck do you think you are to tell me that I need to "get a grip" in a condescending prick tone?
Yesterday was shit. And that is being complementary to shit.
Not everything has to be ALL candy floss grass & lollipop trees.
Not everything has to be ALL doom & gloom.
Sometimes, there are shit things happening at the same time as good things.
And I don't need YOU to hold my fucking hand & give me your permission to voice my fucking opinion...
But you do need to be a bit more courteous in your replies.
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Again though, it's the manner of the defeat. Newcastle were well in the match and had chances to go ahead. We were distinctly second best for the entire match. It happens as you say, but also as I said, it shows that the Newcastle match wasn't some random one off.
However, we've now got a run of fixtures that look quite kind, until the end of November/start of December.
How often do teams lose a centre half to injury in the first quarter of the game and have to rejig their defence, generally I'd guess it's once or twice a season at most, we've had it twice in 6 games, both away at teams that have fantastic home records. That doesn't excuse everything but it has a massive impact, especially given in both cases it was the more aggressive centre half that we lost, which left us looking a bit light-weight in there.
Aside from that I think the Liverpool game was the first time we've looked like we were really missing Ramsey who I think would've given us a lot more stability down our left.
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Oh do get a grip, honestly.
Who are you talking to?
Yourself! No effort? You think Ollie Watkins suddenly didn't care? Or that a very good team with a very good manager got the better of us?
No work rate? I'd bet their distance-run stats were absolutely huge, they just stuck us into a whole bunch of catch-22s all over the pitch.
No clue? We have one of the best and most tactically savvy and thorough managers, no joke, in the world. He was up against another of them, one with more resources over many more years to build a team, and whose team got a 2nd minute lead with a set-piece leading to a long shot.
Not saying it's all bad luck or whatever, but can we not be so silly.
How fucking dare you.
For starters, Im not the only person who have raised concerns in a game where we were absolute shite for 90 minutes.
For the second time this season.
So who the fuck do you think you are to tell me that I need to "get a grip" in a condescending prick tone?
Yesterday was shit. And that is being complementary to shit.
Not everything has to be ALL candy floss grass & lollipop trees.
Not everything has to be ALL doom & gloom.
Sometimes, there are shit things happening at the same time as good things.
And I don't need YOU to hold my fucking hand & give me your permission to voice my fucking opinion...
But you do need to be a bit more courteous in your replies.
What was discourteous to anybody on this site in my initial response that warranted being told how I am allowed to think?
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'How you're allowed to think', forsooth. A completely sober and proportionate response.
-
Oh do get a grip, honestly.
Who are you talking to?
Yourself! No effort? You think Ollie Watkins suddenly didn't care? Or that a very good team with a very good manager got the better of us?
No work rate? I'd bet their distance-run stats were absolutely huge, they just stuck us into a whole bunch of catch-22s all over the pitch.
No clue? We have one of the best and most tactically savvy and thorough managers, no joke, in the world. He was up against another of them, one with more resources over many more years to build a team, and whose team got a 2nd minute lead with a set-piece leading to a long shot.
Not saying it's all bad luck or whatever, but can we not be so silly.
How fucking dare you.
For starters, Im not the only person who have raised concerns in a game where we were absolute shite for 90 minutes.
For the second time this season.
So who the fuck do you think you are to tell me that I need to "get a grip" in a condescending prick tone?
Yesterday was shit. And that is being complementary to shit.
Not everything has to be ALL candy floss grass & lollipop trees.
Not everything has to be ALL doom & gloom.
Sometimes, there are shit things happening at the same time as good things.
And I don't need YOU to hold my fucking hand & give me your permission to voice my fucking opinion...
But you do need to be a bit more courteous in your replies.
What was discourteous to anybody on this site in my initial response that warranted being told how I am allowed to think?
Your initial reply wasn't the problem.
-
Again though, it's the manner of the defeat. Newcastle were well in the match and had chances to go ahead. We were distinctly second best for the entire match. It happens as you say, but also as I said, it shows that the Newcastle match wasn't some random one off.
However, we've now got a run of fixtures that look quite kind, until the end of November/start of December.
How often do teams lose a centre half to injury in the first quarter of the game and have to rejig their defence, generally I'd guess it's once or twice a season at most, we've had it twice in 6 games, both away at teams that have fantastic home records. That doesn't excuse everything but it has a massive impact, especially given in both cases it was the more aggressive centre half that we lost, which left us looking a bit light-weight in there.
Aside from that I think the Liverpool game was the first time we've looked like we were really missing Ramsey who I think would've given us a lot more stability down our left.
We were 2-1 down to Newcastle and 1-0 down to Liverpool with both central defenders still in the team. Liverpool had had 4 shots before Carlos went off, and were well on top.
-
Oh do get a grip, honestly.
Who are you talking to?
Yourself! No effort? You think Ollie Watkins suddenly didn't care? Or that a very good team with a very good manager got the better of us?
No work rate? I'd bet their distance-run stats were absolutely huge, they just stuck us into a whole bunch of catch-22s all over the pitch.
No clue? We have one of the best and most tactically savvy and thorough managers, no joke, in the world. He was up against another of them, one with more resources over many more years to build a team, and whose team got a 2nd minute lead with a set-piece leading to a long shot.
Not saying it's all bad luck or whatever, but can we not be so silly.
How fucking dare you.
For starters, Im not the only person who have raised concerns in a game where we were absolute shite for 90 minutes.
For the second time this season.
So who the fuck do you think you are to tell me that I need to "get a grip" in a condescending prick tone?
Yesterday was shit. And that is being complementary to shit.
Not everything has to be ALL candy floss grass & lollipop trees.
Not everything has to be ALL doom & gloom.
Sometimes, there are shit things happening at the same time as good things.
And I don't need YOU to hold my fucking hand & give me your permission to voice my fucking opinion...
But you do need to be a bit more courteous in your replies.
What was discourteous to anybody on this site in my initial response that warranted being told how I am allowed to think?
Your initial reply wasn't the problem.
But that other poster is allowed to be a condescending prick towards me?
And then do the same thing again.
Look, I am brutally honest & I say what I think.
Could I be more polite at times?
Probably.
I am not adverse to listening to people who don't agree with me & accepting points they make,.
There are plenty of examples of that on this site.
But if people talk to me like I am shit on their shoe, how am I meant to respond, courteously?...
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You could at least capitalise words appropriately.
-
I'm not sure you can accuse the players of lack of effort or lack of work rate. We were just second best.
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Maybe those who see it differently can explain their rationale?
It's only two games, but we've been really badly beaten in both of them. The set up wasn't right, and when things started to go badly we had no answer in either of them. In addition, Watkins is on a run of 1 goal in 11 games, but yet again we didn't bring in another striker. Duran looks so far away from being ready for the Premier League it's not even funny.
Without taking away your valid points, I actually did find it funny when Duran tried the second time.
Would be funny if Archer hadn't hit two cracking shots the day before with technical ability that Duran can only dream of. He just charges around the place like a mad man.
His goal on Thursday was a wild and crazy finish, by someone who has no technical ability, for sure.
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Look, I'm sorry if I thought you were being more over-the-top negative than you felt you were being. Your subsequent replies didn't exactly quell the suspicion, however, of one who really fancies themselves a straight-shooter yet who cries foul play when they find themselves in the firing line.
-
But that other poster is allowed to be a condescending prick towards me?
And then do the same thing again.
Look, I am brutally honest & I say what I think.
Could I be more polite at times?
Probably.
I am not adverse to listening to people who don't agree with me & accepting points they make,.
There are plenty of examples of that on this site.
But if people talk to me like I am shit on their shoe, how am I meant to respond, courteously?...
Yes.
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I'm not sure you can accuse the players of lack of effort or lack of work rate. We were just second best.
A disagreement I can work with. Thank you.
Being second to everything, all match, is part of that effort & work rate for me.
Granted there may have been some instructions not to close down so often, as part of teams countering our high line is drawing us further forward when we press & then hitting the ball in behind for their pacy players to chase down, but we were second to pretty much everything.
So did they run around a lot?
Probably as much as any team who is playing without the ball... But I haven't seen the tracker stats to say yes or no.
Im just angry with yesterday. I hate losing to Liverpool. Especially in that manner.
I am hoping that is it merely similar to last year when we had poor results against Leicester, etc, & once the defence have played together for a while it will all settle down.
My initial point however was that not everybody is unhappy with the result. Those things happen.
It was the performance that is more like "those days".
And while I cant speak for everybody, obviously, I can speak for more than one person, because I have read it & I have spoken to more than one person who has shared the same thought.
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Look, I'm sorry if I thought you were being more over-the-top negative than you felt you were being. Your subsequent replies didn't exactly quell the suspicion, however, of one who really fancies themselves a straight-shooter yet who cries foul play when they find themselves in the firing line.
Fair enough.
I respond to people how they speak to me on the whole.
But, I am angry at yesterday still & that probably didn't help my reaction.
So I apologise too.
I have posted below, so it may answer one or two of the points you made.
Lets have a virtual handshake & walk away smiling.
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Handbags! I'm reminded of Duran and Gomez on Saturday. ;-)
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Look, I'm sorry if I thought you were being more over-the-top negative than you felt you were being. Your subsequent replies didn't exactly quell the suspicion, however, of one who really fancies themselves a straight-shooter yet who cries foul play when they find themselves in the firing line.
Fair enough.
I respond to people how they speak to me on the whole.
But, I am angry at yesterday still & that probably didn't help my reaction.
So I apologise too.
I have posted below, so it may answer one or two of the points you made.
Lets have a virtual handshake & walk away smiling.
You nicked all your best football opinions from henri_matisse anyway ;).
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You nicked all your best football opinions from henri_matisse anyway ;).
Indeed, he was almost like a wild beast earlier in the thread.
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You nicked all your best football opinions from henri_matisse anyway ;).
Indeed, he was almost like a wild beast earlier in the thread.
And let's be fair, undeniably blue.
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Very good art jokes... 👍
But that other poster is allowed to be a condescending prick towards me?
And then do the same thing again.
Look, I am brutally honest & I say what I think.
Could I be more polite at times?
Probably.
I am not adverse to listening to people who don't agree with me & accepting points they make,.
There are plenty of examples of that on this site.
But if people talk to me like I am shit on their shoe, how am I meant to respond, courteously?...
Yes.
Gotcha.
Does that mean that I can be a condescending prick towards other posters too?
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This isn't a game and there's no such thing as "Gotcha". You can obey the site rules or you can go.
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This isn't a game and there's no such thing as "Gotcha". You can obey the site rules or you can go.
"Gotcha" = "I understand"
In the context of "I understand" that he is allowed to be a condescending prick towards me.
Its in the Cambridge English dictionary...
And Im not playing a game.
I am merely trying to understand the rules, so that I can obey them.
Because you have said its ok for someone to be a condescending prick to me, but I didn't get an answer if I can be a condescending prick to others.
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This isn't a game and there's no such thing as "Gotcha". You can obey the site rules or you can go.
"Gotcha" = "I understand"
In the context of "I understand" that he is allowed to be a condescending prick towards me.
Its in the Cambridge English dictionary...
And Im not playing a game.
I am merely trying to understand the rules, so that I can obey them.
Because you have said its ok for someone to be a condescending prick to me, but I didn't get an answer if I can be a condescending prick to others.
Just get over yourself, he everything that you've said since Monty replied to you has just proven he was right and you do really need to take a step back and chill out. At this point people are giving you advice so you have an option to come back and don't have it taken out of your hands.
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This isn't a game and there's no such thing as "Gotcha". You can obey the site rules or you can go.
I guess he chose go.
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This isn't a game and there's no such thing as "Gotcha". You can obey the site rules or you can go.
I guess he chose go.
You guys do whatever you have to do...
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Mate, you could just realise that Monty apologised, you did too and it is all over now. No need for the Court of the Hague to intervene. Or you could go with the internet rage and end up banned. It's more a case of you having to do what you have to do. UTV!
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This isn't a game and there's no such thing as "Gotcha". You can obey the site rules or you can go.
I guess he chose go.
You guys do whatever you have to do...
Come on, mate. Apologise and chill out a bit. There's no need to sacrifice your membership here! x
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If you repeatedly call another poster a prick, despite warnings not to, you'll get banned, it's really that simple.
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After calming down a bit I suppose hoping for a statement performance against Liverpool was over optimistic. The Newcastle result still bothers me though especially when they have lost their three games since.
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If you repeatedly call another poster a prick, despite warnings not to, you'll get banned, it's really that simple.
Thats not the issue, as the admin dude has already answered that the original poster IS allowed to be a "condescending prick" towards me.
And I have already kissed & made up with the chap who this shit initially kicked off with.
But if the word "prick" is what makes you feel justified in banning me, then like I said, you do whatever it is you have to do...
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Honestly Pablo, give it a rest mate. You're a good poster, leave it there eh?
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Indeed - just step back and think on it a bit.
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The weeping woman is close.
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Suck it up and move on mate, you always feel better in the long run
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The weeping woman is close.
So's the one with the big bones who can hold a tune.
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FFS! Gareth Southgate would manage this better than you are Pablo! ;-)
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I think Pablo is getting a bit of hard time, Monty was quite condescending.
As for Sexual Ealing piling in he is about as funny as Guy Mowbray.
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I think Pablo is getting a bit of hard time, Monty was quite condescending.
As for Sexual Ealing piling in he is about as funny as Guy Mowbray.
Thank God you're here to help, I'm sure Pablo is weeping with gratitude.
You're right about Paddy though.
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I think Pablo is getting a bit of hard time
Maaaate!
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I think Pablo is getting a bit of hard time, Monty was quite condescending.
As for Sexual Ealing piling in he is about as funny as Guy Mowbray.
What a helpful little addition to the situation this is.
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As for Sexual Ealing piling in he is about as funny as Guy Mowbray.
This one's going straight on the poster for his comeback tour of the comedy clubs of the former Eastern Bloc.
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Norman Wisdom was a comedy god in Albania, I think that’s why Paddy has chosen to go there to live.
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I think Pablo is getting a bit of hard time, Monty was quite condescending.
As for Sexual Ealing piling in he is about as funny as Guy Mowbray.
What a helpful little addition to the situation this is.
Well I don't know about you Paul but I think it's important to stick up for people if you think they are being hard done by.
Thinking you are better than other people is a very unattractive trait.
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Well I don't know about you Paul but I think it's important to stick up for people if you think they are being hard done by.
Thinking you are better than other people is a very unattractive trait.
That's a little condescending, don't you think?
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People take things differently over a forum that wouldn't happen face to face, you need to remember that when you're getting worked up.
We're all Villa fans and would probably get on face to face, even Wilma.
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Let's get back on track now.
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I think Pablo is getting a bit of hard time
Maaaate!
I was about to write the same thing! 😂
That maaaaaate video was fucking dreadful.
Pablo, all the best mate.
Monty, you speak a lot of sense.
Paddy, I think you're funnier than Guy Mowbray (had to search for him on Google) 😂
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I was going past Winson Green earlier and saw a little person climbing over the prison wall. He saw me looking and sneered at me. I thought to myself "that's a little condescending".
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There's a cafe over the road from Winson Green called The Great Escape' which is rather witty.
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I think Pablo is getting a bit of hard time, Monty was quite condescending.
As for Sexual Ealing piling in he is about as funny as Guy Mowbray.
This Guy Mowbray sounds like a laugh.
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I was going past Winson Green earlier and saw a little person climbing over the prison wall. He saw me looking and sneered at me. I thought to myself "that's a little condescending".
Is no thread safe?!
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I think Pablo is getting a bit of hard time, Monty was quite condescending.
As for Sexual Ealing piling in he is about as funny as Guy Mowbray.
This Guy Mowbray sounds like a laugh.
Not as funny as his brothers, Tony and Melton.
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I was going past Winson Green earlier and saw a little person climbing over the prison wall. He saw me looking and sneered at me. I thought to myself "that's a little condescending".
Is no thread safe?!
You were warned. As such, I accept no responsibility.
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This is going to be a long international break.
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People take things differently over a forum that wouldn't happen face to face, you need to remember that when you're getting worked up.
We're all Villa fans and would probably get on face to face, even Wilma.
Yep, you were a decent sort when I met you.
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I was going past Winson Green earlier and saw a little person climbing over the prison wall. He saw me looking and sneered at me. I thought to myself "that's a little condescending".
Is no thread safe?!
Talking about safes....
My friend was telling me about a salmon that could break into safes...
Turned out to be a lox myth.
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To get back on track
Man United’s PL record away to the rest of the top 12 from last season under ten Hag:
Last season
L 4-0 Brentford
L 6-3 v Man City
D 1-1 v Chelsea
L 3-1 v Villa
W 1-2 v Fulham
D 1-1 v Palace
L 3-2 v Arsenal
L 7-0 v Liverpool
L 2-0 v Newcastle
D 2-2 v Spurs
L 1-0 v Brighton
This season
L 2-0 v Spurs
L 3-1 v Arsenal