Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: PeterWithesShin on September 03, 2023, 03:54:22 PM
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A collective fuck up today. High line, daft against these. Bailey on when he came on was daft. Diaby looked decent again at least.
Most disappointing was not scoring, which ended the run of consecutive games scored in.
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Bloody hopeless.
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We would have won that if Emery wore his track suit and we didn’t sell Archer.
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Well, the lawn looks great.
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Unacceptable.
The midfield, Watkins, Torres and Bailey were absolutely, inexcusably awful today.
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At least it was only 0-3 is about the best I can say.
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Well, the lawn looks great.
And mine. I’ll have the post mow bad back tomorrow.
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Another injured centre back! Hope it isn't too bad for Diego.
Emery picked the wrong side today.
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Don’t think the high line is daft. It’s the second time the midfield has utterly failed, that’s really what cost us. A high line is suicide if you don’t put pressure on the ball.
Hope DC hasn’t got a bad one - any indication? We’ve not helped ourselves, but we’ve had no luck either.
Also temporary bans for the posters who didn’t learn from the over optimism on the pre-match thread for the Newcastle game!
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I’m generally a happy clapper and I was happy with our transfer window.
But that has given me plenty to worry about. Not even sure I want to type them out because it’s a depressingly long list.
Hopefully I’m just being a bit reactionary, but the attitude from the players, tactics from the coaching staff and gulf in quality has got me down.
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High line without pressing. Suicidal. Again.
Twice we've got outnumbered in midfield, not pressed and got murdered in behind against a top team. Emery absolutely has to change this. Certain players are just not technically good enough to pull this off.
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Longballerpool got it spot on today.
We didn’t.
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Not based on today, but I do believe that we'll get better and defensively tighter once we stop getting these stupid injuries and Emery understands there are different tactics you're allowed to use.
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Ah well it's always difficult to play the game on Sunday after a tough European game on Thursday and all that travel etc etc
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Not at the races. 1st goal offside for me, but that's clutching at straws. Johnny English was very entertaining.
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All but Martinez were miles off it today.
You get nothing at Anfield if that's the case.
Just have to hope for better v Palace and I expect that to be the case. It's not defeatist to say that in our present position those type of games and winning them define our season much more than today.
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Don’t think the high line is daft. It’s the second time the midfield has utterly failed, that’s really what cost us. A high line is suicide if you don’t put pressure on the ball.
Hope DC hasn’t got a bad one - any indication? We’ve not helped ourselves, but we’ve had no luck either.
Also temporary bans for the posters who didn’t learn from the over optimism on the pre-match thread for the Newcastle game!
You can’t solely blame the players. It was as clear as day that they were told to not press to high from the outset.
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Rubbish
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We would have won that if Emery wore his track suit and we didn’t sell Archer.
I love it! You also forgot to add that the third most prolific striker we have had in 30 years is of course shit!
Four games, that included away trips to Newcastle and Liverpool have yielded 6 points. I'll take that considering the injuries to key players.
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Longballerpool got it spot on today.
We didn’t.
In fairness, when you play a high defensive line and don't press, you just invite long diagonal balls and balls over the top. With the pace they have it was poor tactics today.
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Torres was Curtis Davies-esque inept. McGinn very poor also.
The rest were less crap, but still crap. The only ones to emerge with any credit were Diaby, Zaniolo and Luiz.
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We’re not ready to go toe to toe against the better sides. Torres needs to adapt very quickly or else he’s only going to be effective against lesser sides. We should have brought in another striker for when Ollie is off it.
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High line without pressing. Suicidal. Again.
Twice we've got outnumbered in midfield, not pressed and got murdered in behind against a top team. Emery absolutely has to change this. Certain players are just not technically good enough to pull this off.
Yep it’s the midfield that were the main issue again.
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Dammit. I was hoping for a statement performance today. I hope that wasn't it.
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We'll be fine and make Europe again but that was shit.
Torres needs to focus and sort his head out. Looked rattled today.
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I think a few have been getting ahead of themselves just like against Newcastle.
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One thing I quickly accepted, even by seeing how we played in preseason, is that we will be conceding a fair few goals this season, to start with anyway. When you don't score then it's going to be embarrassing but we're in for a bumpy ride defensively and then hoping for a run of form up front. Then again I just can't stand seeing Bailey on the pitch, my heart sinks.
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Lenglet should have come on not Bailey
Terrible perfomance all round
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Much like before the Newcastle game I wasn't expecting 3 points, felt getting 1 would be a good result, but was prepared for 0. But just like the Newcastle game it's the way in which we lost that's an issue. At least against Newcastle it was only that last half hour that we looked utterly clueless.
Feels like if we don't impose ourselves on a game first, then we can't get it together at all. Sides like Liverpool aren't going to sit back and give us time to settle in.
3 poins essential next week. Then we can all forget football exists for a fortnight.
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I think a few have been getting ahead of themselves just like against Newcastle.
Yes that's me I always hope for the best and get excited. I'm a glass half full Villa fan can't help it.
Bad today :(
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It's been one of them.
We go again.
Liverpool should be wiping the floor with us.
Etc.
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We are missing our defensive organiser in Tyrone Mings, Someone needs to plug this gap.
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One thing I quickly accepted, even by seeing how we played in preseason, is that we will be conceding a fair few goals this season, to start with anyway. When you don't score then it's going to be embarrassing but we're in for a bumpy ride defensively and then hoping for a run of form up front. Then again I just can't stand seeing Bailey on the pitch, my heart sinks.
I think this is 100% our tactics. Score a couple and then if we concede one it's fine. But that's not going to work if we can't f**king score.
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I think he might have a blind spot regarding Bailey.
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I think he might have a blind spot regarding Bailey.
He did realize his mistake today and took him off after bringing him on.
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We're a good side when teams let us play at our pace, less so when they don't.
Emery got much of today's plan wrong.
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I think a few have been getting ahead of themselves just like against Newcastle.
Newcastle who have lost their last three games?
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I know it was a bad loss but lets not forget that 2 of of last seasons top 5 away from home out of the way. To lose our main physical presence in defence early on in both were fucking hammer blows as well.
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As routine a win for them as the last few have been for us. We had chances but were clearly second best.
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I looked at liverpool without Van Dyke and a brand new midfield with Gomez and Jones on the teamsheet and you think we can get something here...
we were awful, but did have a couple of chances, the cash header, mcGinn had a shot and a header. Torres had an absolute nightmare, and so did Bailey.
Diaby was the only one who turned up.
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Lenglet should have come on not Bailey
Terrible perfomance all round
It looked like Emery was torn but went with the safe option in the end and it was the wrong call
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Liverpool were really aggressive in their pressing and harassing and we looked totally surprised by it.
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I think a few have been getting ahead of themselves just like against Newcastle.
Newcastle who have lost their last three games?
Yes and we made them look like 70s Brazil.
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High line without pressing. Suicidal. Again.
Twice we've got outnumbered in midfield, not pressed and got murdered in behind against a top team. Emery absolutely has to change this. Certain players are just not technically good enough to pull this off.
Last season here, Watkins and McGinn stopped Alexander-Arnold from doing anything. Today he was allowed to spray passes all over the pitch.
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I know it was a bad loss but lets not forget that 2 of of last seasons top 5 away from home out of the way. To lose our main physical presence in defence early on in both were fucking hammer blows as well.
Yep true. This and the Newcastle game have been well off it, and we need to be physically better. But overall the points are pretty much where I expected to be, it’s the level of performance we need to deal with.
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High line without pressing. Suicidal. Again.
Twice we've got outnumbered in midfield, not pressed and got murdered in behind against a top team. Emery absolutely has to change this. Certain players are just not technically good enough to pull this off.
Last season here, Watkins and McGinn stopped Alexander-Arnold from doing anything. Today he was allowed to spray passes all over the pitch.
Its not as if we didn’t know he was going to play in the quarter back role.
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3 poins essential next week. Then we can all forget football exists for a fortnight.
About that ...
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Not great.
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Much like before the Newcastle game I wasn't expecting 3 points, felt getting 1 would be a good result, but was prepared for 0. But just like the Newcastle game it's the way in which we lost that's an issue. At least against Newcastle it was only that last half hour that we looked utterly clueless.
Feels like if we don't impose ourselves on a game first, then we can't get it together at all. Sides like Liverpool aren't going to sit back and give us time to settle in.
3 poins essential next week. Then we can all forget football exists for a fortnight.
Mate you keep forgetting it's the international break now.
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I know it was a bad loss but lets not forget that 2 of of last seasons top 5 away from home out of the way. To lose our main physical presence in defence early on in both were fucking hammer blows as well.
Yep true. This and the Newcastle game have been well off it, and we need to be physically better. But overall the points are pretty much where I expected to be, it’s the level of performance we need to deal with.
yep, exactly, defeats away at Liverpool and Newcastle aren't going to be what decides where we finish but we do need to learn from them that, against pace, you can't play a high line and let them have the ball in their own half.
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Palace were good today too: strong and direct. Absolutely not a gimme by any means and hopefully we’ll see a reaction from the team. Also, can we not have any more injuries please? I don’t pay any attention to other teams but it feels like we suffer a lot in this regard.
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I’m generally a happy clapper and I was happy with our transfer window.
But that has given me plenty to worry about. Not even sure I want to type them out because it’s a depressingly long list.
Hopefully I’m just being a bit reactionary, but the attitude from the players, tactics from the coaching staff and gulf in quality has got me down.
I echo all of that.
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I mean it wasn't as bad as Newcastle defensively, because they could have had 8-9 and Liverpool probably "just" 5-6. But we were better going forward against Newcastle and should have had 3. It's the first game in a while where we've looked totally toothless.
We must rethink how we play against pace and a high press away from home. No two ways about it though, Liverpool are a level above us and they're back to looking like they'll challenge for the title. The midfield looks way more energetic than last season. I don't think we paid their quality enough respect and we looked flat footed again today, like the Newcastle game.
I think in games like this we need to be thinking about parking the bus and hitting quick counters. We don't want to get into the habit of losing composure when we get well-pressed either. Kamara in particular needs to be sharper in games like this.
Now if we could go a fucking game without someone getting injured that'd also be nice.
I'm glad of the break now but we need to get players bedded in. I'll be more concerned if we don't compete with the top 6 contenders at Villa Park. But we've been way too nonchalant against Newcastle and Liverpool on their own patches and we've been spanked royally.
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3 poins essential next week. Then we can all forget football exists for a fortnight.
About that ...
Oops.
Just seen someone say that's exactly how Liverpool would want to go into the international break and I thought, what an idiot, he's got his dates wrong!
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3 poins essential next week. Then we can all forget football exists for a fortnight.
About that ...
Oops.
Just seen someone say that's exactly how Liverpool would want to go into the international break and I thought, what an idiot, he's got his dates wrong!
😂😂😂
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Much like before the Newcastle game I wasn't expecting 3 points, felt getting 1 would be a good result, but was prepared for 0. But just like the Newcastle game it's the way in which we lost that's an issue. At least against Newcastle it was only that last half hour that we looked utterly clueless.
Feels like if we don't impose ourselves on a game first, then we can't get it together at all. Sides like Liverpool aren't going to sit back and give us time to settle in.
3 poins essential next week. Then we can all forget football exists for a fortnight.
Mate you keep forgetting it's the international break now.
I've looked at it a million times and still kept coming up with it being 7 days between this week and the next fixtures. I think I need the two weeks off.
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I think I’ll stay out of my local this evening.
100+ miles from Anfield and 80% of them are Liverpool fans.
Work that out.
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Well, the lawn looks great.
And mine. I’ll have the post mow bad back tomorrow.
Got the lawn and the hedge done. Well the wife did, but i did help a bit.
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Atrocious performance. No effort off the ball and whether under pressure or not on it, we gave it away so cheaply all game.
Absolutely chronic.
Hottest I've ever been at a game too, sweated more than the players.
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Well, the lawn looks great.
And mine. I’ll have the post mow bad back tomorrow.
Got the lawn and the hedge done. Well the wife did, but i did help a bit.
Uncannily like my afternoon. Are we married to the same woman?
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Not the most important thing about the day but I took all the Liverpool players out of my FPL team, and I didn't captain Haaland, so I think I'll just quit football now.
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Atrocious performance. No effort off the ball and whether under pressure or not on it, we gave it away so cheaply all game.
Absolutely chronic.
Hottest I've ever been at a game too, sweated more than the players.
And that is the common denominator in the Newcastle and Liverpool games. With our style we absolutely have to nail the intensity off the ball or we’re finished.
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Well, the lawn looks great.
And mine. I’ll have the post mow bad back tomorrow.
Got the lawn and the hedge done. Well the wife did, but i did help a bit.
Uncannily like my afternoon. Are we married to the same woman?
The wife sprayed the drive with some weed killer. She didn’t break a sweat.
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Four points off top four going into the break. That doesn't sound too bad.
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I know it was a bad loss but lets not forget that 2 of of last seasons top 5 away from home out of the way. To lose our main physical presence in defence early on in both were fucking hammer blows as well.
Yep true. This and the Newcastle game have been well off it, and we need to be physically better. But overall the points are pretty much where I expected to be, it’s the level of performance we need to deal with.
yep, exactly, defeats away at Liverpool and Newcastle aren't going to be what decides where we finish but we do need to learn from them that, against pace, you can't play a high line and let them have the ball in their own half.
In a way I think results like this will be what decides where we finish if people were hoping for Champions league, the manner of the defeats especially. To finish top 4 you usually need to be taking points from tough away games. I guess it depends what people are/were expecting from us this season.
These 2 defeats and the window we had make me think that top 4 is definitely out of reach. Europa will be tough.
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We got bullied today and we didn’t have Ty to stand up to them
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Don’t get too high with the highs, too low with the lows.
Just as the Newcastle defeat won’t define our season, nor will this. Some daft over optimism pre game - they have lost once in 40 odd games at Anfield (or something like that) and we are still a long way from top 4 material.
Torres, Carlos, Diaby still adjusting to this league - it will take time and patience. Let’s not start writing world class players off based on 200 mins of football.
I predicted after Newcastle we would bounce back against Everton and we did - just as we will do against Palace in a fortnight.
Still feel we will finish top 6.
UTV
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Poor in defence, non existent in midfield, nothing up front.
Digne tried to get forward and Diaby made some good runs and looked the most likely but can’t remember when we were collectively so poor, we showed more against Newcastle.
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Pau Torres. I wonder what Unai would be doing if Mings wasn't injured. Square pegs in round holes? Torres was shocking today and until now looks way off the pace. He'll certainly need time to adapt but right now he fills me with absolutely no confidence. I'm just surprised and thankful Liverpool didn't target him more. That said we gave them the freedom of the park, our midfield were sat too deep, especially Dougie who was back to being the defensive midfielder.
Last season our midfield was so solid so why change it? Losing Carlos was an easy switch, Konsa moves across, Cash drops back and we strengthen the midfield with either Dendoncker or Tielemans which would free up Dougie. Why Unai decided to keep the original shape that clearly wasn't working by bringing on Bailey is anybody's guess. Crazy.
Liverpool never had to do much, we were so poor we made it easy for them. I bet they've had tougher friendlies.
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Atrocious performance. No effort off the ball and whether under pressure or not on it, we gave it away so cheaply all game.
Absolutely chronic.
The level of intensity was non existent, The midfield was missing and why could someone not stop Arnold destroying us with long balls over the top
Thank goodness for the break. As someone said Palace are a robust team and we need to be up for it.
Hottest I've ever been at a game too, sweated more than the players.
And that is the common denominator in the Newcastle and Liverpool games. With our style we absolutely have to nail the intensity off the ball or we’re finished.
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Carlos was back on the pitch after the game and seemed to be walking OK, so hopefully not a long term knock.
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Very poor and very predictable.
If you buy defenders who aren’t very good at defending and then play a high line against one of the best counter attacking teams in the league without pressuring the ball, what do you expect? It felt inevitable.
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Carlos was back on the pitch after the game and seemed to be walking OK, so hopefully not a long term knock.
Fingers crossed.
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Carlos was back on the pitch after the game and seemed to be walking OK, so hopefully not a long term knock.
Finally a bit of good news.
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Carlos doen't come off and I think we may have salvaged a point. It was very disruptive.
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Fucked by the fuckers. :-(
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I think if these first few weeks of the season have shown anything, it's that of all the "big" teams to have bad seasons last year, Chelsea appear to be the only ones continuing where they left off.
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I think we really need Ramsey back. He gives us much better balance in midfield and I suspect he'd have done a much better job in pressing Trent.
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I was expecting better than an 8-1 reverse over the two games we’ve lost the season
Maybe not expecting wins or even more points but certainly better than the abject surrenders we’ve seen
If that’s getting ahead of myself then so be it
All this ‘it happens in football’ is bollocks, they were both tactical and ineffective performances totally unacceptable
and Yes I’m pretty certain we will bounce back against Palace, but if we do it won’t negate this absolute piss poor showing
We are supposed to be competing with the big boys now
As for these games ‘don’t define’ where we will finish What a load of shit.
Of course they do all points count
Get more points you will finish higher simple as that
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We would have won that if Emery wore his track suit and we didn’t sell Archer.
I love it! You also forgot to add that the third most prolific striker we have had in 30 years is of course shit!
Four games, that included away trips to Newcastle and Liverpool have yielded 6 points. I'll take that considering the injuries to key players.
We’ve been smashed by the two teams we have aspirations to compete against and beaten two teams who will be fighting relegation. Great stuff, I’ll take that.
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I think we really need Ramsey back. He gives us much better balance in midfield and I suspect he'd have done a much better job in pressing Trent.
Massively. McGinn was woeful today; didn't put TAA under any pressure and gave the ball away consistently. With Ramsey in there too you've got somebody very physical to bolster that midfield both with and without the ball.
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I was expecting better than an 8-1 reverse over the two games we’ve lost the season
Maybe not expecting wins or even more points but certainly better than the abject surrenders we’ve seen
If that’s getting ahead of myself then so be it
All this ‘it happens in football’ is bollocks, they were both tactical and ineffective performances totally unacceptable
and Yes I’m pretty certain we will bounce back against Palace, but if we do it won’t negate this absolute piss poor showing
We are supposed to be competing with the big boys now
As for these games ‘don’t define’ where we will finish What a load of shit.
Of course they do all points count
Get more points you will finish higher simple as that
When people talk about these games not defining the season they're not saying the points don't matter but rather that you don't need to win these games to still have a very good season. Last year we lost away to to Bournemouth and Palace in our first few games, these results are nowhere near as poor as those were and we still recovered from that get 7th.
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I was expecting better than an 8-1 reverse over the two games we’ve lost the season
Maybe not expecting wins or even more points but certainly better than the abject surrenders we’ve seen
If that’s getting ahead of myself then so be it
All this ‘it happens in football’ is bollocks, they were both tactical and ineffective performances totally unacceptable
and Yes I’m pretty certain we will bounce back against Palace, but if we do it won’t negate this absolute piss poor showing
We are supposed to be competing with the big boys now
As for these games ‘don’t define’ where we will finish What a load of shit.
Of course they do all points count
Get more points you will finish higher simple as that
When people talk about these games not defining the season they're not saying the points don't matter but rather that you don't need to win these games to still have a very good season. Last year we lost away to to Bournemouth and Palace in our first few games, these results are nowhere near as poor as those were and we still recovered from that get 7th.
I know, I just don’t agree with it
losing by a collective 8-1 in two of the first four games of the season will affect where we finish
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Absolute dog-shit...
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Who gets dropped to fit Ramsey back into midfield?
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Who gets dropped to fit Ramsey back into midfield?
Bailey / Carlos
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We have played two decent teams in Newcastle and Liverpool and been dicked twice. This is how Unai will measure us. Not against the likes of Everton, Burnley and Hibs but by the Liverpool's and teams that finish in the top 4. He's not stupid and will try to bridge the gap with quality purchasing and coaching. He knows that winning a trophy is where our aim is at, because we are not winning the league for a while and probably not finishing in the top four unless we do brilliantly in the next two to three transfer windows. We have to be patient. I genuinely hate losing, especially in the manner that we have lost these games, but it is where we are at the moment.
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Who gets dropped to fit Ramsey back into midfield?
Bailey / Carlos
I forgot that we had 3/5 defenders starting today. It's not as difficult a question as I thought it was.
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I was expecting better than an 8-1 reverse over the two games we’ve lost the season
Maybe not expecting wins or even more points but certainly better than the abject surrenders we’ve seen
If that’s getting ahead of myself then so be it
All this ‘it happens in football’ is bollocks, they were both tactical and ineffective performances totally unacceptable
and Yes I’m pretty certain we will bounce back against Palace, but if we do it won’t negate this absolute piss poor showing
We are supposed to be competing with the big boys now
As for these games ‘don’t define’ where we will finish What a load of shit.
Of course they do all points count
Get more points you will finish higher simple as that
When people talk about these games not defining the season they're not saying the points don't matter but rather that you don't need to win these games to still have a very good season. Last year we lost away to to Bournemouth and Palace in our first few games, these results are nowhere near as poor as those were and we still recovered from that get 7th.
I know, I just don’t agree with it
losing by a collective 8-1 in two of the first four games of the season will affect where we finish
It might, it might not but there's no need to lose your mind over 2 bad results. I'm sure we'll have games away where we don't lose a central defender early on and look disorganised as a result but it's happened twice now away at 2 of the 4-5 worst places to go in the league. I don't believe in luck but of all the things that you can't really account for in football we've been hit by most of them across these 2 games.
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They had all the intensity that we lacked. It was too easy to catch us in possession and too easy for them to play balls down the flanks or behind the line.
I thought Luiz and Diaby were ok but there were some very sub-standard performances. Torres was shaky all game and Kamara was ineffective, which has happened before in games when the chips are down.
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I was not expecting 2 wins but I was expecting to give them both a game.
But 8 1 looks like we are still miles off and that is a concern.
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We have played two decent teams in Newcastle and Liverpool and been dicked twice. This is how Unai will measure us. Not against the likes of Everton, Burnley and Hibs but by the Liverpool's and teams that finish in the top 4. He's not stupid and will try to bridge the gap with quality purchasing and coaching. He knows that winning a trophy is where our aim is at, because we are not winning the league for a while and probably not finishing in the top four unless we do brilliantly in the next two to three transfer windows. We have to be patient. I genuinely hate losing, especially in the manner that we have lost these games, but it is where we are at the moment.
Newcastle have been rubbish apart from one game.
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I was expecting better than an 8-1 reverse over the two games we’ve lost the season
Maybe not expecting wins or even more points but certainly better than the abject surrenders we’ve seen
If that’s getting ahead of myself then so be it
All this ‘it happens in football’ is bollocks, they were both tactical and ineffective performances totally unacceptable
and Yes I’m pretty certain we will bounce back against Palace, but if we do it won’t negate this absolute piss poor showing
We are supposed to be competing with the big boys now
As for these games ‘don’t define’ where we will finish What a load of shit.
Of course they do all points count
Get more points you will finish higher simple as that
When people talk about these games not defining the season they're not saying the points don't matter but rather that you don't need to win these games to still have a very good season. Last year we lost away to to Bournemouth and Palace in our first few games, these results are nowhere near as poor as those were and we still recovered from that get 7th.
I know, I just don’t agree with it
losing by a collective 8-1 in two of the first four games of the season will affect where we finish
It might, it might not but there's no need to lose your mind over 2 bad results. I'm sure we'll have games away where we don't lose a central defender early on and look disorganised as a result but it's happened twice now away at 2 of the 4-5 worst places to go in the league. I don't believe in luck but of all the things that you can't really account for in football we've been hit by most of them across these 2 games.
I said I expected a lot better from both Newcastle and Liverpool I don’t think that’s losing my mind
I’m just being honest, I did expect more from these two games performance wise at least
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We were woeful from the first minute to the last, and from the front to the back. Watkins and McGinn looked like the players everybody wanted shut of before Emery arrived, and Torres gave one of the worst defensive displays in years, he didn't look even basically competent.
I expect us to at least be competitive in every match, but we've been blown away by Newcastle and Liverpool and Emery simply had no answer. I think teams with pace up front will cause us problems all year.
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I think I’ll stay out of my local this evening.
100+ miles from Anfield and 80% of them are Liverpool fans.
Work that out.
Same thing 200 miles away...
Glory hunting ******.
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We have played two decent teams in Newcastle and Liverpool and been dicked twice. This is how Unai will measure us. Not against the likes of Everton, Burnley and Hibs but by the Liverpool's and teams that finish in the top 4. He's not stupid and will try to bridge the gap with quality purchasing and coaching. He knows that winning a trophy is where our aim is at, because we are not winning the league for a while and probably not finishing in the top four unless we do brilliantly in the next two to three transfer windows. We have to be patient. I genuinely hate losing, especially in the manner that we have lost these games, but it is where we are at the moment.
Newcastle have been poor apart from one game.
It doesn't matter, they finished in the top four and have something we don't, Champions league football and are a class side but haven't yet sparked. Class is permanent, form is temporary. They will be fine, not top four fine, because that won't happen again for them.
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Has Bailey ever played well in an away game? He was absolutely useless today, as usual. Deservedly subbed after coming on, and apparently had a barney with Watkins as they left the pitch. I really wish we'd sold him and got somebody better in this transfer window.
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Has Bailey ever played well in an away game? He was absolutely useless today, as usual. Deservedly subbed after coming on, and apparently had a barney with Watkins as they left the pitch. I really wish we'd sold him and got somebody better in this transfer window.
There's still time. Sell him to Saudi and go bargain hunting for a free agent.
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Has Bailey ever played well in an away game? He was absolutely useless today, as usual. Deservedly subbed after coming on, and apparently had a barney with Watkins as they left the pitch. I really wish we'd sold him and got somebody better in this transfer window.
Bolton away in the cup. LOL
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Has Bailey ever played well in an away game? He was absolutely useless today, as usual. Deservedly subbed after coming on, and apparently had a barney with Watkins as they left the pitch. I really wish we'd sold him and got somebody better in this transfer window.
He does something good every game that seems to mask the overall shite that he serves up. Except today. I think he's a waste of a shirt.
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Very poor and very predictable.
If you buy defenders who aren’t very good at defending and then play a high line against one of the best counter attacking teams in the league without pressuring the ball, what do you expect? It felt inevitable.
Torres was very poor today as were most of the team give or take a couple, but to decide after 4 games, two of which we’ve scored 7 and conceded one, that the Europa League winning/champions league semi finalist, Spanish international defender, can’t defend, is a huge leap and most probably garbage.
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Has Bailey ever played well in an away game? He was absolutely useless today, as usual. Deservedly subbed after coming on, and apparently had a barney with Watkins as they left the pitch. I really wish we'd sold him and got somebody better in this transfer window.
He does something good every game that seems to mask the overall shite that he serves up. Except today. I think he's a waste of a shirt.
El Ghazi Mk II
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Has Bailey ever played well in an away game? He was absolutely useless today, as usual. Deservedly subbed after coming on, and apparently had a barney with Watkins as they left the pitch. I really wish we'd sold him and got somebody better in this transfer window.
No I don't think he has, and also he hasn't scored in an away league game.
He must have had a strop when he he was subbed, as he went straight down the tunnel.
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High line with zero press applied, what was that all about. Poor all round.
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Very disappointing. Konsa, Diaby and Teilemans when he came on were decent, the rest midling to very poor. Torres needs to know you don’t get that much time in this league. The folly of moving on Archer and retaining Duran is showing very quickly. Duran is at George Weah’s brother level. Embarrassing really. We miss Mings badly.
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Very poor and very predictable.
If you buy defenders who aren’t very good at defending and then play a high line against one of the best counter attacking teams in the league without pressuring the ball, what do you expect? It felt inevitable.
Torres was very poor today as were most of the team give or take a couple, but to decide after 4 games, two of which we’ve scored 7 and conceded one, that the Europa League winning/champions league semi finalist, Spanish international defender, can’t defend, is a huge leap and most probably garbage.
Agreed.
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Like most losses you can accept them if you are competitive but we were anything but. I didn't think we would win (I went with an optimistic 3-3) but I didn't think we would basically be never in the game. That 2nd half I barely looked up from my phone and that doesn't happen to me often, we just weren't in it.
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I’m sorry but for the 2nd time this season tactically inept. Against the better teams you have to sit in to an extent at least to take the sting out of the game but no let’s defend on the halfway line and allow them to walk through us. Game over again after five minutes.
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We did ok up there last season, and it wasn't very long ago. What did we do different this time?
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I’m sorry but for the 2nd time this season tactically inept. Against the better teams you have to sit in to an extent at least to take the sting out of the game but no let’s defend on the halfway line and allow them to walk through us. Game over again after five minutes.
You don’t have to sit in. But you absolutely have to press the ball if you want to play the high line, we didn’t.
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If you play a high line you have to press, if you do the former and not the latter you are asking for trouble.
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We did ok up there last season, and it wasn't very long ago. What did we do different this time?
We weren’t bedding in new players and they were in a bit of rut.
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The majority of time Emery and the players get it right, and when they get it wrong it's usually a bit of a car crash. We're still miles ahead of what and where we were before he arrived, and it's because they've got it right so often that our expectations are now so high. Possibly unrealistically high. A year ago we were on 4 points from 6 games under Gerrard, imagine saying then that in 12 months time we'd be hoping to challenge for CL qualification and would be favourites to win a European trophy.
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With Moreno's three lungs pinning others back and JJ's physical presence and ability press and drive with the ball, the system against the better sides looks limp.
That said, it was stupifying how often we gave the ball away. Unfathomable.
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Lenglet should have come on not Bailey
Terrible perfomance all round
He was about to but seemed like Emery had a late change of mind. We were just after having a good spell before Carlos injury and I guess he felt it was time to go after them with an attacking change. Terrible decision though, team setup the same as at Newcastle and it felt like a 5-1, 3-0 flattered us a bit.
Think it was a reality check today. Burnley and Everton are genuinely awful teams and Hibs are levels below them even. Liverpool are at or above Newcastle's level and like them dispatched us at their ease. Aside from being a tactical rabble today, we were flat from the off. Likes of McGinn, Kamara and Watkins were miles off it. Digne is a very average defender and was horribly exposed on the left. Torres, as bad an individual performance I've seen in a Villa shirt. Carlos must be a huge worry given his injury record. Also the subs...Bailey, wrong man to bring on but taking of a sub is fairly brutal and don't think he deserved it, Zaniolo was no better. Tielemans and Duran's cameos were genuinely worrying, I know the game was gone but Tielemans was miles off pace again and Duran was like a competition winner upon his introduction.
Martinez 7, Cash 6, Konsa 7, Torres 1, Digne 4, Kamara 3, Luiz 7, McGinn 4, Diaby 7, Watkins 3, Carlos (Bailey 5, Zaniolo 5).
Emery 3 - no surprise to see team v Burnley retained but decision to replace Carlos with Bailey was reckless in the extreme and we paid for it dearly. That high line without Mings simply won't work with Torres.
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We have played two decent teams in Newcastle and Liverpool and been dicked twice. This is how Unai will measure us. Not against the likes of Everton, Burnley and Hibs but by the Liverpool's and teams that finish in the top 4. He's not stupid and will try to bridge the gap with quality purchasing and coaching. He knows that winning a trophy is where our aim is at, because we are not winning the league for a while and probably not finishing in the top four unless we do brilliantly in the next two to three transfer windows. We have to be patient. I genuinely hate losing, especially in the manner that we have lost these games, but it is where we are at the moment.
Newcastle have been poor apart from one game.
It doesn't matter, they finished in the top four and have something we don't, Champions league football and are a class side but haven't yet sparked. Class is permanent, form is temporary. They will be fine, not top four fine, because that won't happen again for them.
I agree they won't match that again. We need to make sure we are the club who takes their place.
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Bronte, Bailey was horrible, again.
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Second best in everything everywhere today.
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We won’t be the last team to be comfortably beaten at their place this season but the disjointed nature of the performance and the fact we didn’t lay a finger on them is what really sticks. And now we get to stew on it for a fortnight.
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I had a bad feeling about today, said before the match I wasn’t confident at all. Hopefully this will ground us a little bit and also keep us under the radar. We certainly miss Mings in defence, he’s a hard man to replace.
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I missed it all today (probably the lucky one!) What was the injury to Diego Carlos? Hopefully not serious, why do we seem to get these so often??
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Unai thinks the difference was clinical finishing. I hope this is his public face and back at Bodymoor he will be telling them a few home truths.
edit to add : this was on VillaTV.
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Unai thinks the difference was clinical finishing. I hope this is his public face and back at Bodymoor he will be telling them a few home truths.
He's quoted on the BBC as saying our defending was poor.
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Unai thinks the difference was clinical finishing. I hope this is his public face and back at Bodymoor he will be telling them a few home truths.
He's quoted on the BBC as saying our defending was poor.
He also said they were much better than us but that’s what we are trying to achieve
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Are we flat track bullies?
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Got beat by the better team. The first half hour was abysmal but I thought we posed a little bit of a threat when Bailey came on but it didnt last long. Diaby apart, no-one really played that well. We'll hopefully learn from it.
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Tactically not at the races today. Very disappointing.
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Unai thinks the difference was clinical finishing. I hope this is his public face and back at Bodymoor he will be telling them a few home truths.
He's quoted on the BBC as saying our defending was poor.
He also said they were much better than us but that’s what we are trying to achieve
Ah, so the difference was that we were shit at scoring goals, shit at not conceding goals, and they're better than us? Nice.
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Liverpool will probably finish 2nd this year. Hopefully by a point so they can cry about it, but they are much improved.
Which makes it all the more irritating that we were so insipid off the ball, giving them all the time they wanted. Our midfield ought to be a strength, but McGinn might as well have not been there; TAA under no pressure, constantly giving the ball away, Kamara miles off it. Watkins too reactionary and on his heels, he didn't win a single ball.
Lacking energy, lacking belief. Just horrible, horrible individual performances and rank goals to concede.
The only positive is I now have a tan. Fuck me that was hot. I remember as a kid going to Filbert Street on the opening day in 96 I think and it being insanely hot. Palace last year was sweaty, but today was the hottest by a mile.
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Are we flat track bullies?
Even if we are, there’s a lot of flat track in this division.
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^ maybe that's why we were shit, the players had all drowned in their own sweaty kits by the time the 1st goal went in.
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We did ok up there last season, and it wasn't very long ago. What did we do different this time?
We weren’t bedding in new players and they were in a bit of rut.
They’d won 5 on the trot hadn’t they?
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When the fixtures first came out I thought 7 points from the first 4 games would be a reasonable return based on us beating Everton and Burnley and getting one point from the other two difficult away games. In that respect we are only one point from where I thought we would be which is neither here nor there. What is disconcerting is the manner of the two defeats where we have failed to lay a glove on either opponent. I don't usually like going into the international break on the back of a defeat, but I think in this case it will give Emery time for reflection and give us the opportunity for a re-set/ recalibration, whatever that will involve. I'm not sure how many players are involved in the international (Torres? Digne?) or how close JJ and Moreno are to returning, but I do think Emery needs to prove his worth on thee training ground during this time. Apologies if these points have been made elsewhere, but I haven't had the chance to read the whole thread. UTV.
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We did ok up there last season, and it wasn't very long ago. What did we do different this time?
We weren’t bedding in new players and they were in a bit of rut.
They’d won 5 on the trot hadn’t they?
Yep. They were on fire when we visited last season
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Ah fair enough, mixed up my timelines.
On a broader point though I think we still have a number of key players finding their feet. We’ve basically got two centre halves who are new to the league, that’s going to be tricky.
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Liverpool 3-0 Aston Villa: Unai Emery says Villa were 'weak defensively' at Anfield - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/66648732
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We did ok up there last season, and it wasn't very long ago. What did we do different this time?
We weren’t bedding in new players and they were in a bit of rut.
They’d won 5 on the trot hadn’t they?
Yep. They were on fire when we visited last season
Well last season we didn't park our defence on the halfway line or concede after 10 minutes. Mings imo had his best ever game in premier league for us that day.
Also scored first which is always a huge mentality boost when facing a top level team.
Today really was like Man. City away last season, conceded a very cheap early goal from a set piece and never recovered and just meekly accepted defeat.
We then lost to Arsenal but played very well on the day and then used that as a springboard to go on a long unbeaten run so let's see what our September games are like before saying stuff like it's going to be a long season.
Still so much to look forward to.
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^ maybe that's why we were shit, the players had all drowned in their own sweaty kits by the time the 1st goal went in.
Well, funnily enough a lad in front of me was struggling massively first half in the new shirt. His girlfriend (in an older one) kept getting him bottles of water. Half time I went into the new concourse to cool down and saw them leave. So you never know.
Grim detail but I was sweating like I was doing a class. Vile heat.
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We are clearly missing some key components, which has been highlighted twice now against decent teams.
McGinn is better on the right, but we need JJ in the team to do this. JJ also harasses and closes down the opposition midfield.
Dinge is no Moreno in terms of accuracy of passing and was one of the worst offenders in giving the ball away.
Torres - being kind I would say he is taking time to adjust to the Premier League - but he has to sort the physical side as well as getting up to the pace of the game in England, this is where we really miss Mings.
Not surprised by today, just shows we are a couple of steps away from where most of us thought we were.
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I did mention this on the other games thread, but perhaps belongs more on here, that Man Utd last season won only one point away from home against teams who finished in the top 9, but still managed to finish comfortably in third place. I wonder if we're set up to do something similar.
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Well that was shite , we didn't turn up
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Fucking hell, Salah is blocking Emi. That first was offside as much as Man City's 2nd was yesterday.
"VAR...checking badge".
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^ maybe that's why we were shit, the players had all drowned in their own sweaty kits by the time the 1st goal went in.
Well, funnily enough a lad in front of me was struggling massively first half in the new shirt. His girlfriend (in an older one) kept getting him bottles of water. Half time I went into the new concourse to cool down and saw them leave. So you never know.
Grim detail but I was sweating like I was doing a class. Vile heat.
So glad I slapped a load of factor 50 over my head before leaving, I'd be in A&E by now otherwise.
I'd said in the pre match thread I thought we'd cop it today, Torres is really worrying me, he can't defend for a toffee and his passing is nowhere near good enough to make up for it. But we were weak as piss everywhere from the off.
Was in the third row right behind the goal, an odd perspective to watch the game from compared to by home spot and compounded by the glaring of the back of the crossbar most of the game.
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To think that fucking idiot Gerrard wanted Mings out the side ON PURPOSE!
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Liverpool won’t have an easier game than that this season. We never looked liked scoring and they didn’t bother to get out of second gear once they scored the third.
No one seemed to want to step up to the plate today and Watkins, dear oh dear. Most of the others in the same boat as him though. Pau is way too slow for the pace of the league so hope Lenglet can be an improvement.
Still think we missed a big opportunity in not signing a good centre forward to put pressure on Ollie.
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To think that fucking idiot Gerrard wanted Mings out the side ON PURPOSE!
For me, anyone that doesn't rate Mings has their credibility and opinion instantly dismissed, in the same way as if they said they'd voted Brexit or Tory*
* with apologies to Risso or Ads, I'm just trying to emphasise a point.
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Liverpool 3-0 Aston Villa: Unai Emery says Villa were 'weak defensively' at Anfield - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/66648732
In other news, fire burns and water boils.
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Has Bailey ever played well in an away game? He was absolutely useless today, as usual. Deservedly subbed after coming on, and apparently had a barney with Watkins as they left the pitch. I really wish we'd sold him and got somebody better in this transfer window.
If ever there was a time to bring more ballast into midfield, it was when Carlos went off. Tielemans, or even Dendoncker, would have been a good shout. Bailey was not.
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^ maybe that's why we were shit, the players had all drowned in their own sweaty kits by the time the 1st goal went in.
Well, funnily enough a lad in front of me was struggling massively first half in the new shirt. His girlfriend (in an older one) kept getting him bottles of water. Half time I went into the new concourse to cool down and saw them leave. So you never know.
Grim detail but I was sweating like I was doing a class. Vile heat.
So glad I slapped a load of factor 50 over my head before leaving, I'd be in A&E by now otherwise.
I'd said in the pre match thread I thought we'd cop it today, Torres is really worrying me, he can't defend for a toffee and his passing is nowhere near good enough to make up for it. But we were weak as piss everywhere from the off.
Was in the third row right behind the goal, an odd perspective to watch the game from compared to by home spot and compounded by the glaring of the back of the crossbar most of the game.
Torres is my big worry at this point as well.
He really needs to up his game, and quickly.
I suspect he is going to continue to start every game, so he really can't be so easily beaten.
General question - I thought he was considered really good? Like, Bayern Munich want him good?
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I thought bringing Bailey on was a good idea at the time but he should have stuck with the game plan or yeah, brought another midfielder on.
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^ maybe that's why we were shit, the players had all drowned in their own sweaty kits by the time the 1st goal went in.
Well, funnily enough a lad in front of me was struggling massively first half in the new shirt. His girlfriend (in an older one) kept getting him bottles of water. Half time I went into the new concourse to cool down and saw them leave. So you never know.
Grim detail but I was sweating like I was doing a class. Vile heat.
So glad I slapped a load of factor 50 over my head before leaving, I'd be in A&E by now otherwise.
I'd said in the pre match thread I thought we'd cop it today, Torres is really worrying me, he can't defend for a toffee and his passing is nowhere near good enough to make up for it. But we were weak as piss everywhere from the off.
Was in the third row right behind the goal, an odd perspective to watch the game from compared to by home spot and compounded by the glaring of the back of the crossbar most of the game.
Torres is my big worry at this point as well.
He really needs to up his game, and quickly.
I suspect he is going to continue to start every game, so he really can't be so easily beaten.
General question - I thought he was considered really good? Like, Bayern Munich want him good?
Yep because he has some really well at a high level.
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Torres was strongly linked with Bayern a few seasons back, if there’s any truth in it they obviously decided against it.
I’m not writing him off yet but with Mings injury he’s been put in a position where he’s got to adapt quicker than might have been originally intended. The manager thinks he’s good enough so he needs to step up. Not all teams have the pace of Liverpool’s front line but they’ll have a physical presence instead so he needs to improve in all areas.
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I thought bringing Bailey on was a good idea at the time but he should have stuck with the game plan or yeah, brought another midfielder on.
There is never a good time to bring Bailey on. He is rubbish.
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I thought bringing Bailey on was a good idea at the time but he should have stuck with the game plan or yeah, brought another midfielder on.
There is never a good time to bring Bailey on. He is rubbish.
Makes you wonder though, what does it say about Donk and Tielemans that he feels Bailey is the best option? I'm not sure how much Donk has been in training to be fair.
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Palace will be interesting. So far this season we have flat track bullied three crap teams and been crushed by two of the elite. How will we fare against a team lying inbetween those two camps. Getting on top early is vital, I feel
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Happy with the starting line up. Enough defensive players to contain Liverpool.
But we got pulled apart.
Bringing Bailey on for a defender was insane.
Let’s hope Emery learns from this.
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Listening on 5 Live was utterly depressing. I mean you expect a wankfest over the likes of Liverpool from our wonderful national sports service. But when it's justifiable...
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I thought bringing Bailey on was a good idea at the time but he should have stuck with the game plan or yeah, brought another midfielder on.
There is never a good time to bring Bailey on. He is rubbish.
Notwithstanding his display against Hibs, Bailey plays like he's trapped in a Jungian nightmare of perpetually being chased by Shadows which make him fall over.
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Listening on 5 Live was utterly depressing. I mean you expect a wankfest over the likes of Liverpool from our wonderful national sports service. But when it's justifiable...
I’ve always found that interesting; when we get trounced like this the media hype things up but when we do the trouncing, the news/focus is elsewhere...
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I read on Twitter that the Villa fans were singing God save Jug Ears again.
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I read on Twitter that the Villa fans were singing God save Jug Ears again.
Not my king :)
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I read on Twitter that the Villa fans were singing God save Jug Ears again.
Not my king :)
I would hope our Brexit voting friends change it to 'God Save our Team', old skool I know but I live in hope.
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Palace will be interesting. So far this season we have flat track bullied three crap teams and been crushed by two of the elite. How will we fare against a team lying inbetween those two camps. Getting on top early is vital, I feel
The sort of game I'd fancy us at home but not at Selhurst Park . We seem a soft touch again on our travels
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Palace will be interesting. So far this season we have flat track bullied three crap teams and been crushed by two of the elite. How will we fare against a team lying inbetween those two camps. Getting on top early is vital, I feel
You’re right. Palace will be interesting in that they’re a lower team, we’re at home but their forward line is quick and could cause us problems.
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My biggest worry is how slow our back line looks without Mings, playing a high line last season his pace got us out of trouble many times, Torres unfortunately looked slow and fragile, other clubs will have taken notice, I would have replaced him early doors.
Diaby again a bright spot with very little support but Watkins was well held. Duran, oh dear, has he got a brain, his two efforts from impossible positions was nothing short of embarrassing.
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We were not allowed to settle, bringing on Bailey should have added another dimension to our game, but only the increased the pressure on our shaky defence. With hindsight Im sure Dendonker should have been a better choice,but maybe there are issues on that bench we’re unaware of.
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Agree that Duran's cameo was shite but I thought Zaniolo looked skilful, some nice touches but other players didn't seem on his wavelength.
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My biggest worry is how slow our back line looks without Mings, playing a high line last season his pace got us out of trouble many times, Torres unfortunately looked slow and fragile, other clubs will have taken notice, I would have replaced him early doors.
Diaby again a bright spot with very little support but Watkins was well held. Duran, oh dear, has he got a brain, his two efforts from impossible positions was nothing short of embarrassing.
Watkins has an amazing talent of marking himself out of the game. Both he and Duran showed a rare talent of playing 'Statues'. The lack of movement, especially when we have players like Torres than can thread a ball through, ignoring the midfield, is currently wasted right now.
I heard an interview the other day with Van Horseface where he said 'Ferguson asked whether Beckham, Butt, Scholes or whoever play the same ball through to him'. Obviously he replied 'no'. To which Ferguson replied, 'so learn to understand when they have the ball what type of run or position you need to make'.
Watkins and Duran are waiting for the perfect ball. What is it, 1 goal in 11 now for Watkins? I accept he'll never be a technical player but at least try moving and be an intelligent player. Worse than him have made a great career out of it.
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Bringing on Bailey just repeated the mistake that was made against Newcastle. ie playing Bailey.
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Bringing on Bailey just repeated the mistake that was made against Newcastle. ie playing Bailey.
Yes I was disappointed when he came on
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Bringing on Bailey just repeated the mistake that was made against Newcastle. ie playing Bailey.
Yes I was disappointed when he came on
I just somehow assumed that Unai knew what he was doing, as to say I was disappointed would have been an understatement.
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Bringing on Bailey just repeated the mistake that was made against Newcastle. ie playing Bailey.
Yes I was disappointed when he came on
I just somehow assumed that Unai knew what he was doing, as to say I was disappointed would have been an understatement.
Unai, despite the results and performances last season is only human. I think it's something we're going to need to start understanding. As we say down here, 'Great work we can do but miracles take longer'.
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Who gets dropped to fit Ramsey back into midfield?
Bailey / Carlos
I forgot that we had 3/5 defenders starting today. It's not as difficult a question as I thought it was.
Not difficult at all. He just goes back in the position he played last season and McGinn hoes back to the right. Nothing to do with the number of defenders.
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Agree that Duran's cameo was shite but I thought Zaniolo looked skilful, some nice touches but other players didn't seem on his wavelength.
It was a shame Nico couldn't play either game v Hibs to get him up to speed quicker.
Feels like the sort I'd start v Palace just to freshen up the team and sort of maverick you need to break down what will be a rigid and low block opponent.
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:'(
Bringing on Bailey just repeated the mistake that was made against Newcastle. ie playing Bailey.
Didn't appreciate the way he stormed down the tunnel like a hormonal diva . Emery surely clocked it. We don't need bad apples and his talent is limited . Waste of a squad space .
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Our midfield was terrible today, Duggie must have had his least number of touches wearing a Villa shirt!. We will not beat the top sides unless we are clinical with our chances---- they were and it could have been worse! Bailey is just far too lightweight for the Premier League, teams have got his measure and muscle him out of games. I think Unai will rue the day we never got in another top striker this window! As for Duran ::) well at least Heskey could hold the ball up!
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Klopp found a way to shut down SJM. He is integral to our play in transition.
Unai will learn from this.
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When we went behind and needed someone with a bit of fight about him he brings on Bailey, why? surely Dendonker would have given us a bit more strength. Puzzling.
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The loss of Diego Carlos was a major factor as it weakened the defence massively. I don't understand the logic of bringing on Bailey. The absence of Mings will be felt throughout the season, plus Moreno and JJ - hopefully they'll be back later this month. Even the Buendia option is a loss. It' has to be noted that we held the scousers to a 1-1 draw at Anfield less than 5 months ago - we were nowhere near that level, plus Liverpool were chasing a top 4 finish. We could easily have won that game but for a late equaliser.
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The loss of Diego Carlos was a major factor as it weakened the defence massively. I don't understand the logic of bringing on Bailey. The absence of Mings will be felt throughout the season, plus Moreno and JJ - hopefully they'll be back later this month. Even the Buendia option is a loss. It' has to be noted that we held the scousers to a 1-1 draw at Anfield less than 5 months ago - we were nowhere near that level, plus Liverpool were chasing a top 4 finish. We could easily have won that game but for a late equaliser.
I was at that game in May and its what I found most frustrating/concerning about yesterday, in terms of the difference in performance. Mings is the obvious difference, but if its as simple as that, then Im not sure how the league season will pan out.
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It is said that the table does not lie
Early days I know, but based on yesterdays lack of intensity and poor defending, I would not bet on us beating any of the 9 teams above us.
Hopefully I am just being my normal pessimistic self, but the season may be tougher than we thought.
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Bringing on Bailey just repeated the mistake that was made against Newcastle. ie playing Bailey.
Based on the circumstances of the match, looking at the bench and the options available, I am struggling to think of a worse option than to say Bailey is just what we need right now.
I think he has a blind spot.
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It is said that the table does not lie
Early days I know, but based on yesterdays lack of intensity and poor defending, I would not bet on us beating any of the 9 teams above us.
Hopefully I am just being my normal pessimistic self, but the season may be tougher than we thought.
Table lies at the moment, it’s only 4 games! I would bet we beat plenty of those 9 teams above us.
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Without wanting to ignore the bigger picture of the performances, is it not very unusual to start a season by having three away games and only one at home? Usually it would be 2-2?
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Without wanting to ignore the bigger picture of the performances, is it not very unusual to start a season by having three away games and only one at home? Usually it would be 2-2?
I was confused by that but apparently we asked for it.
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We have a great manager, theirs was better.
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Listening to Radio 5, the co commentator on their said that we did not work hard enough and blamed a lot of the problems with our team on our midfield
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We do seem to have games where our press vanishes, players drop about 40% in energy and quality from previous performances and the whole thing looks a bit of a mess. Having said that, we don't have much luck either, 2 goals at Newcastle were offside, the second yesterday wasn't really checked properly and that's before you consider the ball rebounding against one of our players and yet another in game injury.
In reality we weren't anywhere near good enough to win either game though and that is for the Manager to fathom out.
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Listening to Radio 5, the co commentator on their said that we did not work hard enough and blamed a lot of the problems with our team on our midfield
He’s right, the midfield was the problem and it was the same against Newcastle.
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As a rule of thumb, we will beat the teams who finished below us last season, and lose to the teams that finished higher than us.
This has rung true so far. There will obviously be exceptions. But i tend to manage my expectations in line with that.
Good news is , that out of our next 10 league games, only one team finished higher than us last season (Brighton), so we should be looking good for some better results.
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Klopp basically did to us what we did to Newcastle at VP last season. "Here's what I think they'll do, and here is a plan to exploit it". And he did it well. As others have said, I don't thin the high line per se is the issue, but rather letting the oppo midfield have the time and space to play balls in behind it. Giving Alexander-Arnold time on the ball when you have the pace they do in the front three is suicide.
I'm quite sure this game will be analysed to death at VP this week, but the manager also has to take his fair share of the criticism for not finding a way to combat the obvious way Liverpool were playing.
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Who gets dropped to fit Ramsey back into midfield?
Bailey / Carlos
I forgot that we had 3/5 defenders starting today. It's not as difficult a question as I thought it was.
Not difficult at all. He just goes back in the position he played last season and McGinn hoes back to the right. Nothing to do with the number of defenders.
I was thinking of the team yesterday and thinking we'd have to drop 1 of McGinn, Luiz, Diaby, or Kamara to put Ramsey back in, which would have been a difficult decision. The fact we had 5 defenders on means we wouldn't have to drop any of the midfielders. So it does have something to do with the number of defenders.
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I was thinking of the team yesterday and thinking we'd have to drop 1 of McGinn, Luiz, Diaby, or Kamara to put Ramsey back in, which would have been a difficult decision. The fact we had 5 defenders on means we wouldn't have to drop any of the midfielders. So it does have something to do with the number of defenders.
Cash back at right back, McGinn on the right, Ramsey on the left. Very simple.
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I read on Twitter that the Villa fans were singing God save Jug Ears again.
There was a few lads a couple of rows behind me singing that, and sign on, and generally trying start something with the Liverpool fans next to us. Saw one of them being spoken to by the rozzers at half time, they were a right obnoxious bunch of pricks.
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We have a great manager, theirs was better.
I would argue manager wise, similar, just one has better players who have played in title winning teams. So when they know they are on top, they will punish.
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I read on Twitter that the Villa fans were singing God save Jug Ears again.
There was a few lads a couple of rows behind me singing that, and sign on, and generally trying start something with the Liverpool fans next to us. Saw one of them being spoken to by the rozzers at half time, they were a right obnoxious bunch of pricks.
So many away fans are like that, it's why I generally don't bother going to away games any more.
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I was thinking of the team yesterday and thinking we'd have to drop 1 of McGinn, Luiz, Diaby, or Kamara to put Ramsey back in, which would have been a difficult decision. The fact we had 5 defenders on means we wouldn't have to drop any of the midfielders. So it does have something to do with the number of defenders.
Cash back at right back, McGinn on the right, Ramsey on the left. Very simple.
Yes. I know it's simple. I'm just explaining why, for a brief second yesterday, I thought it wasn't.
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Fair enough.
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I read on Twitter that the Villa fans were singing God save Jug Ears again.
There was a few lads a couple of rows behind me singing that, and sign on, and generally trying start something with the Liverpool fans next to us. Saw one of them being spoken to by the rozzers at half time, they were a right obnoxious bunch of pricks.
So many away fans are like that, it's why I generally don't bother going to away games any more.
I actually found myself questioning last night if I'll bother again, if I was sat directly next to them I don't think I'd hold my tongue.
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You just get so many acting like twats in the concourses, and then when the match starts, acting like twats all game. I went to about 10 away games last season and the only one where I wasn't surrounded by complete arseholes was Forest.
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I read on Twitter that the Villa fans were singing God save Jug Ears again.
There was a few lads a couple of rows behind me singing that, and sign on, and generally trying start something with the Liverpool fans next to us. Saw one of them being spoken to by the rozzers at half time, they were a right obnoxious bunch of pricks.
So many away fans are like that, it's why I generally don't bother going to away games any more.
I actually found myself questioning last night if I'll bother again, if I was sat directly next to them I don't think I'd hold my tongue.
This stuff is very good reason to reconsider the away scheme.
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I read on Twitter that the Villa fans were singing God save Jug Ears again.
There was a few lads a couple of rows behind me singing that, and sign on, and generally trying start something with the Liverpool fans next to us. Saw one of them being spoken to by the rozzers at half time, they were a right obnoxious bunch of pricks.
So many away fans are like that, it's why I generally don't bother going to away games any more.
I actually found myself questioning last night if I'll bother again, if I was sat directly next to them I don't think I'd hold my tongue.
In the game last season I had to nip down during the 2nd half to the toilet and noticed a lad in there keying coke. What would posses somebody to want to do that at the football, never mind when you're 1-0 away, at the home of unfavourable VAR and at that stage of the season pushing for a European spot, God only knows. Weird behaviour, but its always been that way (odd balls) in one form or another.
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In the game last season I had to nip down during the 2nd half to the toilet and noticed a lad in there keying coke. What would posses somebody to want to do that at the football, never mind when you're 1-0 away, at the home of unfavourable VAR and at that stage of the season pushing for a European spot, God only knows. Weird behaviour, but its always been that way (odd balls) in one form or another.
Yep, don't get it either. Can't you hold it until full time?! ;)
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Klopp was praising his team after the game and said they all listened in the team meetings and implemented everything they were supposed to extremely well. He said something about being very happy they scored from set pieces. I don't know whether he meant that was something they were working on in general or something they identified us as being vulnerable from?
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You just get so many acting like twats in the concourses, and then when the match starts, acting like twats all game. I went to about 10 away games last season and the only one where I wasn't surrounded by complete arseholes was Forest.
I used to go to tons of aways back in the day, until about 10 years ago when I got sick of the twats.
The absolutely biggest bell end I've encountered at an 'away' was at Wembley for the Fulham play off, and the snarling, aggressive fucking idiot in front of us, must have been 30 or so so old enough to know better, who spent literally the entire match screaming abuse, gesturing and really horrible stuff at their fans - ambitious, too, as we were behind the goal - just a horrible, horrible person. From first minute to final whistle, didn't stop. Given the demographic of Wembley games there were tons of families with little kids around us, as well.
He appeared to be with his Dad, too, who was old enough to know better.
At half time they fucked off to get a drink, and it was one of those moments where everyone around us shared one of 'those looks' with each other.
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The high-line works - but you have to stop the supply. TAA was very good and under no pressure all game and kept pinging balls over the top which caused us issues.
Last season JJ stopped him doing that, yesterday no-one picked him up.
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I genuinely wonder if it's worth it. I only get to a couple of games but there seems to be plenty of knobs with big mouths about.
Happy to be getting to most home games and being with the same people pretty much who are all sound and enjoy watching the game.
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You just get so many acting like twats in the concourses, and then when the match starts, acting like twats all game. I went to about 10 away games last season and the only one where I wasn't surrounded by complete arseholes was Forest.
I used to go to tons of aways back in the day, until about 10 years ago when I got sick of the twats.
The absolutely biggest bell end I've encountered at an 'away' was at Wembley for the Fulham play off, and the snarling, aggressive fucking idiot in front of us, must have been 30 or so so old enough to know better, who spent literally the entire match screaming abuse, gesturing and really horrible stuff at their fans - ambitious, too, as we were behind the goal - just a horrible, horrible person. From first minute to final whistle, didn't stop. Given the demographic of Wembley games there were tons of families with little kids around us, as well.
He appeared to be with his Dad, too, who was old enough to know better.
At half time they fucked off to get a drink, and it was one of those moments where everyone around us shared one of 'those looks' with each other.
Similar to when I went to Newcastle away last season. Me and my son were sat next to another lad (a bit younger than mine) with his dad. Dad looked about 40 so I was hoping we'd be next to reasonable company. No chance. As soon as the match started the dad turned into a full on flappy handed, pointing at various Newcastle fans, doing throat slitting gestures, bellend. Of course the ten year old did what any son would do and copied his dad. What hope have kids got with parenting like that?
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The high-line works - but you have to stop the supply. TAA was very good and under no pressure all game and kept pinging balls over the top which caused us issues.
Last season JJ stopped him doing that, yesterday no-one picked him up.
The 2nd goal shows that off. He picked up the ball and had three faked passes before he finally played the ball over the top. And then he gets a "look at his passing range" montage on MOTD.
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Realistically it was only 6 league games ago - which makes it even more frustrating that we haven't set ourselves up to stop him after it worked so well in May.
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You just get so many acting like twats in the concourses, and then when the match starts, acting like twats all game. I went to about 10 away games last season and the only one where I wasn't surrounded by complete arseholes was Forest.
I used to go to tons of aways back in the day, until about 10 years ago when I got sick of the twats.
The absolutely biggest bell end I've encountered at an 'away' was at Wembley for the Fulham play off, and the snarling, aggressive fucking idiot in front of us, must have been 30 or so so old enough to know better, who spent literally the entire match screaming abuse, gesturing and really horrible stuff at their fans - ambitious, too, as we were behind the goal - just a horrible, horrible person. From first minute to final whistle, didn't stop. Given the demographic of Wembley games there were tons of families with little kids around us, as well.
He appeared to be with his Dad, too, who was old enough to know better.
At half time they fucked off to get a drink, and it was one of those moments where everyone around us shared one of 'those looks' with each other.
Similar to when I went to Newcastle away last season. Me and my son were sat next to another lad (a bit younger than mine) with his dad. Dad looked about 40 so I was hoping we'd be next to reasonable company. No chance. As soon as the match started the dad turned into a full on flappy handed, pointing at various Newcastle fans, doing throat slitting gestures, bellend. Of course the ten year old did what any son would do and copied his dad. What hope have kids got with parenting like that?
Bloody shameful isn’t it.
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From very early on it was clear we were outnumbered in the middle of the pitch, Tielemans for Carlos seemed the obvious answer to me, with Donk not being fully fit yet.
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It helped Liverpool in this game that they actually had a midfield, unlike in May.
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WTF was that performance?
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Who gets dropped to fit Ramsey back into midfield?
Bailey / Carlos
I forgot that we had 3/5 defenders starting today. It's not as difficult a question as I thought it was.
Not difficult at all. He just goes back in the position he played last season and McGinn hoes back to the right. Nothing to do with the number of defenders.
I was thinking of the team yesterday and thinking we'd have to drop 1 of McGinn, Luiz, Diaby, or Kamara to put Ramsey back in, which would have been a difficult decision. The fact we had 5 defenders on means we wouldn't have to drop any of the midfielders. So it does have something to do with the number of defenders.
Cash played right wing. Diaby played up front. It was 4-4-2.
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Klopp found a way to shut down SJM. He is integral to our play in transition.
Unai will learn from this.
I know McGinn had a great game v Burnley in that position but yesterday he neither pressed up on TAA nor gave Digne any badly needed support yesterday. He was kind of in no man's land. Still missed two very good chances to score from memory. Need to get Ramsey back so McGinn and his bum roll can get back to the other side like last season.
Digne got a lot of praise against the diddy teams but can't defend at all against pace. Some excellent crosses at times but he has no presence or recovery pace. Would he have got red for his effort in making a save in the second half if he touched it? Crazy stuff
Moreno would have struggled yesterday but at least he can run. Ramsey too is an athlete. That will improve our left side and athleticism in the team.
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The more I think about it, going to a rejuvenated Anfield and going 2 vs. 3 in midfield, a 4-4-2 with more or less two strikers detached from the middle, playing a high line, trying to play from the back through aforementioned congested midfield, without basically our entire first choice left side from last year that made it work (Ramsey and Moreno covered by Mings), the more it kind of looks mental!
I'd genuinely love to know what the plan was. Because of course there was one, I'm sure a very detailed and interesting and justified one, which really did not come off.
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It was very much a 442 yesterday. Cash didn't make it as a winger in the Championship - so it was an odd call to have him there vs one of the better teams in the league.
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Some of our away fans are cringingly embarrassing and heap shame on our colours but I have also found some to be the best fans to spend a little time with, total pleasure and most of them from this Parish.
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So my conclusion is Liverpool studied us and used their coaching agility and superb players to trounce us. We on the other hand didn't work hard enough and players didn't do the job they were assigned to do and got hammered. That's what you get folks when you play a decent team.
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So my conclusion is Liverpool studied us and used their coaching agility and superb players to trounce us. We on the other hand didn't work hard enough and players didn't do the job they were assigned to do and got hammered. That's what you get folks when you play a decent team.
With a little bit of help from the Officials.
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I read on Twitter that the Villa fans were singing God save Jug Ears again.
There was a few lads a couple of rows behind me singing that, and sign on, and generally trying start something with the Liverpool fans next to us. Saw one of them being spoken to by the rozzers at half time, they were a right obnoxious bunch of pricks.
Earlier this morning I saw a video of a few of the Chicago Lions club in the Globe where they meet up; they were singing 'Sign on' to the TV screens. I cringed. I'd delete that one kids!
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So my conclusion is Liverpool studied us and used their coaching agility and superb players to trounce us. We on the other hand didn't work hard enough and players didn't do the job they were assigned to do and got hammered. That's what you get folks when you play a decent team.
We're supposed to be a decent team as well though.
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I was thinking of the team yesterday and thinking we'd have to drop 1 of McGinn, Luiz, Diaby, or Kamara to put Ramsey back in, which would have been a difficult decision. The fact we had 5 defenders on means we wouldn't have to drop any of the midfielders. So it does have something to do with the number of defenders.
Cash back at right back, McGinn on the right, Ramsey on the left. Very simple.
Hearing Villa fans sing gtsk really does boil my piss. Keep politics out of football. Especially that type of politics.
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Hearing Villa fans sing gtsk really does boil my piss. Keep politics out of football. Especially that type of politics.
Not quite sure why you quoted the post you did for that reply, but never mind. I don't think it's a political thing, it's typical away "bants" where our fans know that Liverpool fans are perceived as anti-monarchy, so cheering the National Anthem in contrast to them booing it as seen as jolly good fun.
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Hearing Villa fans sing gtsk really does boil my piss. Keep politics out of football. Especially that type of politics.
Not quite sure why you quoted the post you did for that reply, but never mind. I don't think it's a political thing, it's typical away "bants" where our fans know that Liverpool fans are perceived as anti-monarchy, so cheering the National Anthem in contrast to them booing it as seen as jolly good fun.
I'm not sure how I managed to post that reply on that subject either. A bit like the team yesterday "I had a 'mare"
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Hearing Villa fans sing gtsk really does boil my piss. Keep politics out of football. Especially that type of politics.
There's a brilliant documentary series from Al Jazeera - 'The Fans Who Make Football' that makes a very strong claim for politics in football. Well worth a watch.
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The folks round me yesterday were alright, if showing a bit more flesh than I would have appreciated!
GTSK and the sign on stuff seemed to be later in the match when we were getting thrashed and the game was over so I ascribe it more to boredom.
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I was close to going full Geordie yesterday.
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I was worried enough about sunburn on my face and thinning pate, never mind my pasty chest.
As you can tell from the above, I'm quite the catch.
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I was close to going full Geordie yesterday.
Were there horses in the stand?
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Hearing Villa fans sing gtsk really does boil my piss. Keep politics out of football. Especially that type of politics.
Not quite sure why you quoted the post you did for that reply, but never mind. I don't think it's a political thing, it's typical away "bants" where our fans know that Liverpool fans are perceived as anti-monarchy, so cheering the National Anthem in contrast to them booing it as seen as jolly good fun.
Makes no sense though as judging from the drive up most of the people they're singing it to are Tesla driving middle managers from the home counties.
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We started with a brand new pair of Centre Backs yesterday, and then one of them got injured (again). Anfield is not the place to have to do that.
It will take a bit of time to gel, but the signs are there.
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A bit tongue in cheek but, people saying we were in second gear for the 4 matches we have won and, I would say second gear also for the two lost matches…do we see a pattern developing and does Unai know we are not always in a 20mph zone and can actually move up another 4 gears at times??
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A bit tongue in cheek but, people saying we were in second gear for the 4 matches we have won and, I would say second gear also for the two lost matches…do we see a pattern developing and does Unai know we are not always in a 20mph zone and can actually move up another 4 gears at times??
Good point. Unai often talks about playing in the moment.
At this moment, the top teams have worked out how to shut down our transition.
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Hearing Villa fans sing gtsk really does boil my piss. Keep politics out of football. Especially that type of politics.
Not quite sure why you quoted the post you did for that reply, but never mind. I don't think it's a political thing, it's typical away "bants" where our fans know that Liverpool fans are perceived as anti-monarchy, so cheering the National Anthem in contrast to them booing it as seen as jolly good fun.
Yep. Liverpool fans have a recent habit of booing the national anthem, so other fans sing it to wind them up. I would say that it hasn't got anything to do with politics to be totally honest.
It's not just our fans who behave badly at away games, it's pretty widespread throughout football in this country. 'Away days' are seen as an opportunity to indulge in excessive drinking and other substances (one in particular) which fuel that kind of behaviour.
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Hearing Villa fans sing gtsk really does boil my piss. Keep politics out of football. Especially that type of politics.
No more 'political' then Hibs fans signing Flower of Scotland. Twice.
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Hearing Villa fans sing gtsk really does boil my piss. Keep politics out of football. Especially that type of politics.
No more 'political' then Hibs fans signing Flower of Scotland. Twice.
Signing GSTK on a weekend his paedo brother's files were locked away, assuming by royal decree, until 2065. Not a great look.
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Hearing Villa fans sing gtsk really does boil my piss. Keep politics out of football. Especially that type of politics.
No more 'political' then Hibs fans signing Flower of Scotland. Twice.
I can't argue with that. But us singing gstk gives off a Chelsea etc type vibe and that's something I really don't like our club to be associated with. Just my opinion.
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Hearing Villa fans sing gtsk really does boil my piss. Keep politics out of football. Especially that type of politics.
No more 'political' then Hibs fans signing Flower of Scotland. Twice.
I can't argue with that. But us singing gstk gives off a Chelsea etc type vibe and that's something I really don't like our club to be associated with. Just my opinion.
As far as I know it's been sung against two oppponents Hibs and Liverpool and on both occasions as a wind up to their fans. It's not like its sung before every game as a Union Jack is hoisted up above the Doug Ellis stand.
You must really dislike the Olympics!!
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This seems to have only become a thing for Villa fans since Jug Ears got the job. Maybe it’s a William is next type of thing.
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This seems to have only become a thing for Villa fans since Jug Ears got the job. Maybe it’s a William is next type of thing.
It would have been a bit pointless singing God Save the King before then.
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This seems to have only become a thing for Villa fans since Jug Ears got the job. Maybe it’s a William is next type of thing.
It would have been a bit pointless singing God Save the King before then.
and also despite having most of the same institutional problems that Charles had Liz had been there for such a long time that she was almost part of the furniture, even if you were a republican at heart it was hard to be too critical of her. All of that protection through familiarity was lost when she died so anger towards the crown is much higher than it has bene for years.
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A lot of Kopites are try hard minds. Anfield is so rammed full of tourists and Wools that you get a bit of American style plastic Irish where they're trying to fit into perceived Scouse norms. Then you have those that are drenched in sanctimonious self agrandisement of their club that its nauseating to even bring football up with them.
The history of Liverpool appears to be similar to football plus VAT. Anybody would think it started with Thatcher. Never mind that it's a city built off slavery in the 18th and early 19th century, that it was the most sectarian place in England, still has Orange Order marches, the most Conservative and Unionist city in England until probably the 60s. If ye' know ye' history la'.
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A lot of Kopites are try hard minds. Anfield is so rammed full of tourists and Wools that you get a bit of American style plastic Irish where they're trying to fit into perceived Scouse norms. Then you have those that are drenched in sanctimonious self agrandisement of their club that its nauseating to even bring football up with them.
The history of Liverpool appears to be similar to football plus VAT. Anybody would think it started with Thatcher. Never mind that it's a city built off slavery in the 18th and early 19th century, that it was the most sectarian place in England, still has Orange Order marches, the most Conservative and Unionist city in England until probably the 60s. If ye' know ye' history la'.
It's also the most crushingly monoracial large city I have been to in the UK.
I liked almost nothing about it.
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A lot of Kopites are try hard minds. Anfield is so rammed full of tourists and Wools that you get a bit of American style plastic Irish where they're trying to fit into perceived Scouse norms. Then you have those that are drenched in sanctimonious self agrandisement of their club that its nauseating to even bring football up with them.
The history of Liverpool appears to be similar to football plus VAT. Anybody would think it started with Thatcher. Never mind that it's a city built off slavery in the 18th and early 19th century, that it was the most sectarian place in England, still has Orange Order marches, the most Conservative and Unionist city in England until probably the 60s. If ye' know ye' history la'.
It's also the most crushingly monoracial large city I have been to in the UK.
I liked almost nothing about it.
I might have mentioned it before but there’s an old black guy who used to do (maybe still does?) a guided tour in which he absolutely slates the place for its racism. My missus went on it, it was mostly black people, a coachload from a church in Handsworth, and they said that everyone was looking at them as if they all had two heads.
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It's changed now, but back in the eighties it was both the most left-wing and also the most racist big city in the country.
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Have Everton now got over their racism problem?
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Everton are white, Everton are white.
If you watch the 6-2 game you hear the monkey chants at Daley whenever he got the ball.
I think i've said before, a lot of the lads I used to go the football with back in the day were Asian, Dave W knows a couple, and the only time I saw outright racist behaviour towards them in the PL era was against Liverpool, worst being the '96 semi final at Old Trafford.
And also back in the day, mainly 90s early 00s, I spent a reasonable amount of time in various cities doing work and so on. Glasgow, loved it, Manchester was great, Bristol fine, and so on. The one place I just couldn't relax was Liverpool. Hard to explain why, just had a bad vibe/atmosphere and none of the black lads with us were remotely comfortable.
Hopefully it's better now, but it was a weird fucking place up until fairly recently.
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The North West is odd like that, you've got places with a high percentage of people from ethnic minorities like Manchester, Bolton, Burnley and Blackburn. Then within a few miles, places like Liverpool, Warrington, Chorley and Wigan with hardly any. I think a lot of it is to do with the main industry in the area, so places with mills brought in a lot of workers from the sub-continent. Those towns based on mining and chemicals, didn't.
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Weren't Everton investigating racial abuse by fans aimed at one of their own players after they lost to us?
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Just a few fairly recent headlines
Everton condemn ‘vile’ racist abuse of Amadou Onana after Aston Villa defeat
Police investigate racist abuse of families of Brentford players at Everton
An Everton fan has been found guilty of shouting racist abuse at a rival Leicester City supporter during a Premier League game.
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A lot of Kopites are try hard minds. Anfield is so rammed full of tourists and Wools that you get a bit of American style plastic Irish where they're trying to fit into perceived Scouse norms. Then you have those that are drenched in sanctimonious self agrandisement of their club that its nauseating to even bring football up with them.
The history of Liverpool appears to be similar to football plus VAT. Anybody would think it started with Thatcher. Never mind that it's a city built off slavery in the 18th and early 19th century, that it was the most sectarian place in England, still has Orange Order marches, the most Conservative and Unionist city in England until probably the 60s. If ye' know ye' history la'.
Yep, they are one of a few clubs who have re-written their own history during the Premier League era, abetted by their fawning pals in the media.