Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: olaftab on August 05, 2023, 06:08:35 PM

Title: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: olaftab on August 05, 2023, 06:08:35 PM
This week is the first big rollout out of new FIFA directive to crackdown on wasted time. Last night's match between Sheff Wed and Southampton had 6 mins added at clock HT and 9 at clock full time. Most of the EFL matches finished at around 5 today. I don't like near double digit added time being played when the clock is at "full time". It's misleading and impacts negatively on the game both for players and spectators. Watching the clock to the end is part of the excitement of the game and that will be denied to us when you know that regularly  anything from 10 to 15 mins is still to come when clock shows 90. FIFA obviously think  it will eliminate time wasting. I think they are wrong as it will results in spoilt second haves in most games. I would prefer STOP THE CLOCK method  as used in Rugby and finish the game at 90 dead.

What's forum's view?
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: Lastfootstamper on August 05, 2023, 06:17:45 PM
Neither. Hate it. Getting a full 90 minutes of value for my money has never once entered my head. I was perfectly happy with a referee looking at his watch, add a bit on if the trainer had been on with the magic sponge, then blow up so's we can all fuck off home.
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: Meanwood Villa on August 05, 2023, 06:24:02 PM
Stop the clock for me. I agree that the psychology of being at 90 minutes but still having approx a fifth to a quarter of the half to play is not good for players or spectators. Or at the very least we should be able to see what time is on the ref's watch.
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: Bad English on August 05, 2023, 06:35:20 PM
From occasionally going down the egg-chasing league I find the clock stopping to have the advantage of being clear and definitive. Nobody wants 12 minutes added at the football and it's usually "where the fuck did they get that from?" when they find five or six.
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: Louzie0 on August 05, 2023, 06:37:33 PM
Stop the clock for me, too.

Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: Nev on August 05, 2023, 06:42:16 PM
Solving a problem that doesn't exist.
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 05, 2023, 06:48:23 PM
The trouble with stopping the clock is that it's the thin end of a wedge, beyond which lurks time-outs, drinks breaks, quarters instead of halves and other lucrative-for-TV 'opportunities'.
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: VillaBoy_23 on August 05, 2023, 06:51:48 PM
Stop the clock would be the end of the game as we know it. It would turn into an NFL-type experience, with constant stoppages for ad breaks and input from inane pundits in the studio.
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: Footy-Vill on August 05, 2023, 06:52:51 PM
I would have a stop the clock but the current reality is added time
This means likes of Emi Martinez must not waste his time otherwise its extra time levels of added time.
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: Brazilian Villain on August 05, 2023, 06:54:51 PM
Stop the clock would be the end of the game as we know it. It would turn into an NFL-type experience, with constant stoppages for ad breaks and input from inane pundits in the studio.

Yeah, I prefer added time at the end.
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on August 05, 2023, 07:09:13 PM
Stop the clock would be the end of the game as we know it. It would turn into an NFL-type experience, with constant stoppages for ad breaks and input from inane pundits in the studio.

I don't see why the length of the stops would be any different to how they are now so I don't see this being an issue. If they wanted they could have cut away to the studio when a player is injured under the current set up but they don't, that length of time won't change just because it is recorded.
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: andyh on August 05, 2023, 07:18:18 PM
It makes laugh how the whole time wasting thing is the fault of players.
In reality, most time wasting nowadays is caused by showboating referees, holding up or slowing play so that can get their ‘look at me, I’m so important’ moments.
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: VillaBoy_23 on August 05, 2023, 07:24:25 PM
Stop the clock would be the end of the game as we know it. It would turn into an NFL-type experience, with constant stoppages for ad breaks and input from inane pundits in the studio.

I don't see why the length of the stops would be any different to how they are now so I don't see this being an issue. If they wanted they could have cut away to the studio when a player is injured under the current set up but they don't, that length of time won't change just because it is recorded.

They might not be any different straight away, but come back to me 5 years down the line.
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: Baldy on August 05, 2023, 07:46:32 PM
Stop the Clock (on condition it is in full view of the whole crowd).

More transparent.
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: darren woolley on August 05, 2023, 07:49:41 PM
I'm stop the clock.
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: UK Redsox on August 05, 2023, 07:53:57 PM
Just like after the World Cup, playing full added time will be forgotten about after a couple of weeks
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: algy on August 05, 2023, 07:59:01 PM
Stop the clock is more transparent, as long as everyone can see when the clock's running and when it isn't.
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: pablo_picasso on August 05, 2023, 09:22:55 PM
Stop the clock.

Adding on at the end is too open to giving Man U or Liverpool 3 mins at the end if they are 1-0 up, but 15 mins if they are 0-1 down...
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: Exeter 77 on August 05, 2023, 10:07:15 PM
Stop the clock but with an independent timekeeper.
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: Brazilian Villain on August 05, 2023, 10:53:08 PM
Just like after the World Cup, playing full added time will be forgotten about after a couple of weeks

Most likely, and preferable to "Our 85th minute Emi Martinez time wasting intermission is brought to you by Budweiser. Budweiser....the King of Beers."
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: eamonn on August 05, 2023, 11:03:54 PM
Solving a problem that doesn't exist.

The gap between actual playing time in some games can apparently from 48 to 58 mins approx,  which really shouldn't be the case.
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: PeterWithesShin on August 05, 2023, 11:06:06 PM
Out of the 2 stop the clock is better. I prefer it as it is though, it's the done thing to bitch about how much/little time they've added.
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: dicedlam on August 06, 2023, 09:38:21 AM
If we had to to make a choice then I would prefer stopping the clock, so long that it is transparent for all to see.
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: paul_e on August 07, 2023, 12:56:18 PM
I prefer stopping the clock to adding ridiculous amounts of injury time but it's a problem that I don't think is urgent to solve in the majority of games.
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: trinityoap on August 07, 2023, 01:15:24 PM
With stop the clock the official clock would have to be visible to all in the ground with obvious exemptions for Manure, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City and presumably now Newcastle.
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: Simon Page on August 07, 2023, 01:28:33 PM
It would just give something else for players and managers to try to manipulate, and everyone to gripe over. Just play to the whistle.
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: wince on August 07, 2023, 06:31:11 PM
Stop all the clocks give the dog a juicy bone……WH Auden rules 😂
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on August 07, 2023, 06:33:55 PM
Stop the Clock(s). Brilliant poem....
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: astonvilla82 on August 07, 2023, 06:59:50 PM
Good idea is for the managers to tell their players stop cheating
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: eamonn on August 07, 2023, 07:04:44 PM
What about the time-wasting that will invariably happen in the large amount of stoppage time already granted - will that be added on too ?
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: steamer on August 07, 2023, 07:47:54 PM
Stop the clock for me
In the past a couple of extra mins was Ok, then came Fergie time. Now it is crazy. No idea how yesterday was calculated.
Rugby works well, the hooter goes and the next beak in play is game over.
if players waste time, penalise them, Yellow card will stop it.
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on August 07, 2023, 07:53:02 PM
What about the time-wasting that will invariably happen in the large amount of stoppage time already granted - will that be added on too ?

Yep, apparently games where 13 minutes were added pretty much ended straight after those minutes suggesting there was zero time wasting in that time period so you can still waste time you just have to wait until after 90.
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: Pete3206 on August 07, 2023, 08:51:10 PM
I can see Emi getting 2 yellow cards in 'injury time'
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: Mister E on August 08, 2023, 08:43:47 AM
Stop the clock but with an independent timekeeper.
yes, and with a clearly visible countdown on view.
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: NorthYvillan on August 08, 2023, 02:18:41 PM
Stop the clock but with an independent timekeeper.

This

I find the bleating of players and managers that their time-wasting tactics are being called out somewhat laughable.
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: aldridgeboy on August 08, 2023, 02:34:56 PM
Let the physios on and the game carry on when players go down “injured “
 Unless an obvious really bad clash of heads.


That’s stops a lot of time wasting overnight.
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: Nev on August 08, 2023, 02:35:13 PM
The chairman of the PL (I think) was just on SSN going on about this, as if it was a huge issue. He also wanked on about bookings for time wasting and kicking the ball away being introduced. FFS, these rules have been in for years but are not always used against the more favoured sides and the same thing will happen again and again. I'm sure it was last season when  that rat faced Newton Heath ****** booted the ball away and the ref ignored it.
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: pablo_picasso on August 08, 2023, 04:28:20 PM
The chairman of the PL (I think) was just on SSN going on about this, as if it was a huge issue. He also wanked on about bookings for time wasting and kicking the ball away being introduced. FFS, these rules have been in for years but are not always used against the more favoured sides and the same thing will happen again and again. I'm sure it was last season when  that rat faced Newton Heath ****** booted the ball away and the ref ignored it.

It all became an issue as soon as clubs that arent money making marketing machines started doing it.

They were happy to let Liverpool, Man U & the like get away with wasting time until the cows come home & merely called it "clever game management" game after game.

As soon as clubs like Villa started doing it, people like Carragher lifted his skirt & jumped up on a table screeching on about the "disgrace" of Villa "time wasting" & the problem "that is ruining  the game!"

And then rule changes happened...

Heaven forbid we get a level playing field.
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 08, 2023, 09:25:32 PM
The chairman of the PL (I think) was just on SSN going on about this, as if it was a huge issue. He also wanked on about bookings for time wasting and kicking the ball away being introduced. FFS, these rules have been in for years but are not always used against the more favoured sides and the same thing will happen again and again. I'm sure it was last season when  that rat faced Newton Heath ****** booted the ball away and the ref ignored it.

It all became an issue as soon as clubs that arent money making marketing machines started doing it.

They were happy to let Liverpool, Man U & the like get away with wasting time until the cows come home & merely called it "clever game management" game after game.

As soon as clubs like Villa started doing it, people like Carragher lifted his skirt & jumped up on a table screeching on about the "disgrace" of Villa "time wasting" & the problem "that is ruining  the game!"

And then rule changes happened...

Heaven forbid we get a level playing field.
that's why I think they should stop the clock which is in full view of the spectators and controlled independently.
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: Nev on August 09, 2023, 07:41:51 AM
Apparently the players don't like all this added time, and the Stockport City manager has started moaning about it as well. Goal celebrations are now classed as time wasting so expect a few firm handshakes and an immediate resumption in future.

What a fucking mess, created out of nothing.
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: Chap on August 09, 2023, 07:45:28 AM
Players moaning about what 90% of the working population have to do every so often, overtime!!!
Shock, horror!!
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 09, 2023, 07:52:39 AM
Apparently the players don't like all this added time, and the Stockport City manager has started moaning about it as well. Goal celebrations are now classed as time wasting so expect a few firm handshakes and an immediate resumption in future.

What a fucking mess, created out of nothing.
The very people who cause the added time don’t want the time added.Of course Citeh want to bend all the rules in their favour *****.

The problem is that refs are not managing the game, allowing medical  staff to come on the field as in Rugby would cut out some of the theatrics and deliberate time wasting but more importantly the intent to break up the play.
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: tomd2103 on August 09, 2023, 10:09:10 AM
Stop the clock like they do in rugby.  Adding on considerable amounts of time at the end of games will just be another way to benefit certain teams.  Manchester United losing 1-0 at home - 10 minute minimum as standard.

As we have seen with VAR, we need as few grey areas as possible. 
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: Small Rodent on August 09, 2023, 10:53:58 AM
The average is 50 goals scored in 90+ minutes across all PL seasons.

Might make an interesting spread bet.
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: Nev on August 09, 2023, 11:58:52 AM
Stop the clock like they do in rugby.  Adding on considerable amounts of time at the end of games will just be another way to benefit certain teams.  Manchester United losing 1-0 at home - 10 minute minimum as standard.

As we have seen with VAR, we need as few grey areas as possible. 

Football is one big grey area, that's why I love it.
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: Bad English on August 09, 2023, 12:53:02 PM
The way rugby is played facilitates medical staff coming on with the magic sponge. It never fails to amuse me when I go down the Dragons: you get random radio-controlled cars, coaches, medical staff, water carriers and so on wandering on and off while the game goes on. It allows play to continue more fluidly but given the speed at which play rips up and down the pitch in PL football, I think it would cause chaos.
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: usav on August 09, 2023, 01:00:22 PM
Solving a problem that doesn't exist.

Well that's not true.  Not to say that thee two options in the thread title are the only answers.  Personally, I would start dishing out yellows quicker for the blatant time wasting - and yes, that would impact us (Emi) as much as anyone.
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: Nev on August 09, 2023, 01:33:04 PM
Solving a problem that doesn't exist.

Well that's not true.  Not to say that thee two options in the thread title are the only answers.  Personally, I would start dishing out yellows quicker for the blatant time wasting - and yes, that would impact us (Emi) as much as anyone.

Where's the issue? I don't recall any huge injustice in the game last season due to time wasting, all teams do it and the refs have the ability to punish it. Four years ago Dwight Gayle got a second booking in the Play Off first leg and quite rightly so. Most of Emi's cautions have been entirely justified. The bigger concern is the unconscious (possibly) bias demonstrated by the officials towards the more favoured clubs in terms of penalising time wasting and the inconstancy in applying the rules already in existence.

Much like the introduction of VAR, something that is supposed to improve the game can have just the opposite effect, and now we have the scenario where celebrating a goal with unbridled joy, both on and off the field is stymied by a potential VAR check or yellow card.
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: tomd2103 on August 10, 2023, 12:47:18 AM
Stop the clock like they do in rugby.  Adding on considerable amounts of time at the end of games will just be another way to benefit certain teams.  Manchester United losing 1-0 at home - 10 minute minimum as standard.

As we have seen with VAR, we need as few grey areas as possible. 

Football is one big grey area, that's why I love it.

As we've seen with the introduction of VAR though, those grey areas too often seem to benefit certain teams.  This will be the same.   
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: German James on August 10, 2023, 01:03:06 AM
Introduce a "Stop the clock" rule for two or three seasons. When the time-wasting/shithousing wankers have got the message, go back to added time at the ref's disgression.
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: Baldy on August 11, 2023, 08:51:34 AM
Game management is impossible if you don't know if the game is 90, 95, 100 or 105 minutes long. There should be 2 clocks in every stadium running concurrently. One for the 90 minutes normal time, the other for 'obvious' stoppage time (var, on field treatment, goal celebrations, substitutions) which is controlled by a 5th official.

At their own discretion, the referee can add extra minutes for what they deem time wasting on to the 'obvious' stoppages.

Transparency is absolutely essential for proper game management.

Anyways, that's my annual brainwave. Hope you like it.

 
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: pablo_picasso on August 12, 2023, 03:16:42 PM
Arsenal have just shown why this initiative is pointless.

Ref gives 7 mins "time wasting time".

Arsenal spend 5 mins 30 seconds wasting time.

Ref adds on 1 minute.

So real amount of "time wasting time" ended up being 2 mins 30 seconds...
Title: Re: Added time or Stop the Clock!
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 12, 2023, 03:48:34 PM
Arsenal have just shown why this initiative is pointless.

Ref gives 7 mins "time wasting time".

Arsenal spend 5 mins 30 seconds wasting time.

Ref adds on 1 minute.

So real amount of "time wasting time" ended up being 2 mins 30 seconds...
And why stopping the clock is the only way to counter it.
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