Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Legion on July 30, 2023, 09:18:47 PM

Title: First Choice?
Post by: Legion on July 30, 2023, 09:18:47 PM
Current starting XI and subs (9?) bench when all players are available.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: pauliewalnuts on July 30, 2023, 09:28:16 PM
It depends on who we are playing and when we are playing them.

We shouldn’t have a first choice team at all.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 30, 2023, 09:34:00 PM
Agreed. We have to get past this notion of one best XI. It should be the best XI based on the circumstances. The squad depth is the strongest it’s been for a long time.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: VillaTim on July 30, 2023, 09:35:31 PM
i think there are 3 to 4 postions that are interchangeable depending on who we play , the main stays though are Martinez, Mings, Konsa, McGinn, Luiz and now probably Diaby
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Astnor on July 30, 2023, 09:43:39 PM
Martinez, Konsa , Mings, Torres, Moreno (Digne), Kamara, Luiz, Mc Ginn, Ramsey (Buendia), Diaby, Watkins.
Bench: Olsen, Chambers, Carlos, Digne, Tielemans, DenDoncker, Bailey, Buendia, Cash
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: not3bad on July 30, 2023, 09:50:13 PM
Martinez, Konsa , Mings, Torres, Moreno (Digne), Kamara, Luiz, Mc Ginn, Ramsey (Buendia), Diaby, Watkins.
Bench: Olsen, Chambers, Carlos, Digne, Tielemans, DenDoncker, Bailey, Buendia, Cash

Surely we'd need another forward option on the bench. Archer? Duran?
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Steve67 on July 30, 2023, 09:50:49 PM
   1/          Martinez.                                            2/     Martinez                                     3/                   Martinez
Konsa  Torres   Mings.   Moreno                  Cash    Torres        Mings.    Moreno                          Cash Torres  Mings  Moreno
Mcginn  Kamara  Luiz.   New                       New   McGinn  Kamara   Luiz  Diaby                                   Kamara  Luiz
                  Diaby.                                       |            Watkins.                 |                                New      Diaby     McGinn
                 Watkins                                     \/                                        \/                                          Watkins

They will shuffle across to make three at the back when Moreno goes forward.  McGinn will slip in front of Kamara to play up closer to Diaby.  This is going off the side and formation that we put out today.  Need a left or right sided wide player, depending on which full back we play.  Three options, hope this comes out ok. 
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: danno on July 30, 2023, 09:50:56 PM
i think there are 3 to 4 postions that are interchangeable depending on who we play , the main stays though are Martinez, Mings, Konsa, McGinn, Luiz and now probably Diaby

Our top scorer for the last three seasons is not a definite starter then?
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Astnor on July 30, 2023, 09:52:33 PM
Martinez, Konsa , Mings, Torres, Moreno (Digne), Kamara, Luiz, Mc Ginn, Ramsey (Buendia), Diaby, Watkins.
Bench: Olsen, Chambers, Carlos, Digne, Tielemans, DenDoncker, Bailey, Buendia, Cash

Surely we'd need another forward option on the bench. Archer? Duran?
Might be that Archer should take a place instead of Dendoncker then.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: VillaTim on July 30, 2023, 09:56:12 PM
i think there are 3 to 4 postions that are interchangeable depending on who we play , the main stays though are Martinez, Mings, Konsa, McGinn, Luiz and now probably Diaby

Our top scorer for the last three seasons is not a definite starter then?
i have assumed we will sign another quality  nr9
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 30, 2023, 11:29:52 PM
Our squad is actually looking decent. As an example

Starting
Martinez, Cash, Mings, Konsa, Moreno, Kamara, Luiz, McGinn, Ramsey, Diaby, Watkins

Bench
Olsen, Torres, Carlos, Digne, Tielemans, Bailey, Buendia, Coutinho, Duran

Still leaves
Chambers, Bert, Donk, Archer, JPB, KD, Hause.

And then Aaron, Tim, Kellyman etc youngster wise and the players out on loan.

And that's assuming I haven't forgotten anyone.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Legion on July 30, 2023, 11:31:26 PM
Archer over Duran for me.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Legion on July 30, 2023, 11:32:03 PM
Best squad for years.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Hairbandinho on July 30, 2023, 11:50:58 PM
i think there are 3 to 4 postions that are interchangeable depending on who we play , the main stays though are Martinez, Mings, Konsa, McGinn, Luiz and now probably Diaby

Our top scorer for the last three seasons is not a definite starter then?
i have assumed we will sign another quality  nr9

We won't be
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: ROBBO on July 31, 2023, 12:14:02 AM
Need a back up or even challenger for the key forward role, Watkins gets an injury and we have Archer who has yet to prove himself. Apart from that we have the best squad for decades and a manager who knows what he's doing.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: dcdavecollett on July 31, 2023, 01:06:45 AM
What about Philogene?
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Taylor on July 31, 2023, 06:01:17 AM
Archer and Duran are the back up and challenger for Watkins. I don’t see us buying another striker. They’re not easy to come by, and I expect a few clubs are coveting Ollie too. We need to keep him happy and firing, rather than buying a second rate replacement.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Gareth on July 31, 2023, 08:04:52 AM
Martinez
Cash
Konsa
Pau
Mings
Moreno
Luiz
Kamara
McGinn
Diaby
Watkins

Marschcall
Carlos
Digne
Ramsey
Theilimans
Buendia
Bailey
Archer
Philogene

With Ramsey coming in for either Cash or Konsa for home games & poorer opposition, Luton/Wolves/Fulham etc

Sure I will have missed someone off :-)
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Dogtanian on July 31, 2023, 08:12:41 AM
So if we gave a monkey all of infinity to pick starting 11s, would he ever pick Olsen?
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Mister E on July 31, 2023, 09:20:08 AM
So if we gave a monkey all of infinity to pick starting 11s, would he ever pick Olsen?
why do you even ask??!
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: dicedlam on July 31, 2023, 09:31:40 AM
Archer over Duran for me.

I think that is a little unfair on Duran. We haven't seen enough of him to make a call. Archer for that matter, we have, but limited to seeing him play mostly championship level football.

I would keep Archer around for maybe six months and put Duran out on loan, but we still need to invest heavily on another striker. Watkins is too hit and miss for me.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: chrisw1 on July 31, 2023, 09:43:21 AM
             Martinez
Cash  Mings   Torres   Moreno
          Kamara  Luiz
McGinn                 Tielemans
       Diaby   Watkins                       

Tielemans and Ramsey is close.  A fit and firing Ramsey may well edge it, but Tielemand would help us have more control of the ball.  I want us to have more control in games against the top sides this season rather than giving up possession and hoping for a smash and grab.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Smithy on July 31, 2023, 10:01:55 AM
If everyone is fit and available, we are going to have international footballers who don't even get into the match day squad.

How far we've come.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Monty on July 31, 2023, 10:08:06 AM
Tielemans as an option for the left midfield position is interesting. Does he have the dribbling (sorry, the 'ball-carrying') to pull it off? The thing about JJ in that position is how incisive he is.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Clark W Griswold on July 31, 2023, 10:21:26 AM
             Martinez
Cash  Mings   Torres   Moreno
          Kamara  Luiz
McGinn                 Tielemans
       Diaby   Watkins                       


This is the one that I think in the long term will turn out to be the best 11 from what we have now. It’s a really tough call though, we can’t be sure how any new players will do once we get into it, we don’t know who else we might sign or that possibly even leave (although let’s hope not in that regard). We have slightly unknown quantities in Carlos, Duran and Archer as well and we also have a number of players who have elevated their form in the last 6 months but hadn’t been up to much for a year or two before. And then there’s Coutinho. Anyway, it’s great that we finally look like we’re back. For the opener I’d have Digne for Moreno due to injury and I would keep Konsa in for Pau just to start with at least.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Dave on July 31, 2023, 10:30:09 AM
For the opener I’d have Digne for Moreno due to injury and I would keep Konsa in for Pau just to start with at least.

After yesterday, I reckon Konsa in for Watkins.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: tomd2103 on July 31, 2023, 10:44:28 AM
Tielemans as an option for the left midfield position is interesting. Does he have the dribbling (sorry, the 'ball-carrying') to pull it off? The thing about JJ in that position is how incisive he is.

On paper, we don't really have an obvious replacement for Jacob Ramsey to fill in that position on the left side of midfield.  Such a shame that both he and Moreno got injured as they were really starting to develop a good understanding on that side of the pitch. 
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: RamboandBruno on July 31, 2023, 10:58:02 AM
             Martinez
Cash  Mings   Torres   Moreno
          Kamara  Luiz
McGinn                 Tielemans
       Diaby   Watkins                       


This is the one that I think in the long term will turn out to be the best 11 from what we have now. It’s a really tough call though, we can’t be sure how any new players will do once we get into it, we don’t know who else we might sign or that possibly even leave (although let’s hope not in that regard). We have slightly unknown quantities in Carlos, Duran and Archer as well and we also have a number of players who have elevated their form in the last 6 months but hadn’t been up to much for a year or two before. And then there’s Coutinho. Anyway, it’s great that we finally look like we’re back. For the opener I’d have Digne for Moreno due to injury and I would keep Konsa in for Pau just to start with at least.

Agree with all of this
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Drummond on July 31, 2023, 11:00:45 AM
Based on what I've seen so far, the team from last season doesn't need much. This is based on everyone being fully fit.

League games:

         Martinez
Cash Konsa Mings Moreno
   Kamara     Luiz
          McGinn
Diaby           Coutinho
           Watkins

Subs: Olsen, Carlos, Torres, Digne, Tielemans, Buendia, Archer, Bailey,

Cup Games

         Martinez
Chambers Carlos Torres Digne
   Dendoncker Tielemans
          Ramsey
Bailey           Buendia
           Archer

Subs: Olsen, Cash, Mings, Ramsey A, McGinn, Watkins, Kellyman, Duran, Philogene

*edited to add Cup subs
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Risso on July 31, 2023, 12:10:52 PM

I think we're going to see the same version of 4-4-2 that we saw last season


Martinez


Cash - Konsa/Carlos - Mings/Torres - Moreno/Digne


McGinn/JPB - Luiz - Kamara/Tielemans - Ramsey/Buendia/JPB


Diaby/Bailey - Watkins/Archer/Duran


We've got a huge possible range of possibilities in midfield so I didn't list every possible permutation (Tielemans can play in Ramsey's spot for example). The only place we still look a bit short is right back and up front, where I think Archer and Duran are too untried to be considered reliable replacements if anything happened to Watkins.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: paul_e on July 31, 2023, 12:16:18 PM

I think we're going to see the same version of 4-4-2 that we saw last season


Martinez


Cash - Konsa/Carlos - Mings/Torres - Moreno/Digne


McGinn/JPB - Luiz - Kamara/Tielemans - Ramsey/Buendia/JPB


Diaby/Bailey - Watkins/Archer/Duran


We've got a huge possible range of possibilities in midfield so I didn't list every possible permutation (Tielemans can play in Ramsey's spot for example). The only place we still look a bit short is right back and up front, where I think Archer and Duran are too untried to be considered reliable replacements if anything happened to Watkins.

I agree on Archer and Duran. I also think the 2 of them would both benefit from playing together rather than competing to directly replace Watkins. I'd include Dendoncker in the midfield options because I think he's fairly reliable cover as the more defensive option but won't start many. Coutniho will be in there somewhere as well because, in my opinion, he looks the fittest he's been since he joined us right now and if he can find some sharpness and form to go with that he can still have a massive impact.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: London Villan on July 31, 2023, 12:17:20 PM
We won't be able to predict the starting 11 anymore and neither will the opposition. (Hopefully) playing 55ish games this season, I can see Martinez starting 40+ at this rate, but no-one else starting more than 35...
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Drummond on July 31, 2023, 12:38:53 PM
If Coutinho is fit, and can stay fit, he'll do brilliantly for us this season. The pace and movement of Watkins and Diaby will give him lots of options and with the potential runs and power of Tielemans, McGinn or Luiz.... Yes please.

I have a feeling we're not looking for a Right Back, after Cash, there is Chambers (who Emery identified as being cover for RB or CM) but almost certainly another pacy forward player.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Risso on July 31, 2023, 12:41:56 PM
I'm just not sure that Emery likes the idea of someone not pulling their weight in the midfield 4, which is why we've seen Ramsey and McGinn in the wide spots there. Anybody coming in is going to have to be as physical as they can be, and even Buendia puts himself about. I can see Phil coming in when we're 2-0 up or chasing a game, but don't see him starting many games.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: rougegorge on July 31, 2023, 04:47:13 PM
I just hope we don't have some kind of separate cup line up or wholesale changes, at least not for the ECL or the FA Cup; hopefully given Unai's aims and his past successes, we won't anyway.

We did so well to qualify for Europe, so we need to take it seriously like West Ham did.

Maybe for the EFL cup it would be ok to rotate, or (if we get there and do really well) a group game in the ECL where nothing is riding on it.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Drummond on July 31, 2023, 05:42:34 PM
I just hope we don't have some kind of separate cup line up or wholesale changes, at least not for the ECL or the FA Cup; hopefully given Unai's aims and his past successes, we won't anyway.

We did so well to qualify for Europe, so we need to take it seriously like West Ham did.

Maybe for the EFL cup it would be ok to rotate, or (if we get there and do really well) a group game in the ECL where nothing is riding on it.

But in order to keep the squad match fit, they need to play. So we need to keep using the squad.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: AV84 on July 31, 2023, 06:00:56 PM
Just as an experiment I wanted to see if we could actually play 2 completely different squads from game to game. Not sure what formation/tactics would be, and it assumes everyone is fit and on form.

Martinez     Olsen

Cash            Chambers
Konsa          Carlos
Mings          Pau
Digne           Moreno

McGinn        Tielemans
Luiz               Kamara
Philogene     Buendia
Diaby            Ramsey
Coutinho      Bailey

Archer           Watkins


It's obviously not perfect, and I tried to mix and match experience and youth in both sides. (And I know we all hate Olsen but for the purposes of the exercise....)
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: paul_e on July 31, 2023, 06:04:49 PM
I'd make a few changes to those 2 teams to balance things better and I'd probably bring Dendoncker into 1 of them to keep a genuine '6' in the team but fundamentally I agree, we're cose to being able put out 2 teams that could both hold their own in the premier league, which is a very good place to be.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Legion on July 31, 2023, 06:10:03 PM
I don't think anyone hates Olsen. He's just not a very good GK for back-up at this level.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Pete3206 on July 31, 2023, 07:09:04 PM
I hate him. He's absolutely shite.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Toronto Villa on July 31, 2023, 07:13:31 PM
The question isn’t comparing him to other #2 GKs at other clubs. It’s that the drop off from Emi is monstrous and it shouldn’t be that big. More importantly, it’s his lack of comfort with the ball at his feet. We play the ball out pretty much all the time now. If he puts us in difficult situations when he distributes then a key tactic that Emery values is significantly diminished.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: dave.woodhall on July 31, 2023, 08:22:23 PM
Second keepers we've had have included Spink, Bosnich, Spink again, Oakes, Guzan and Given. It's been a long time since we had a reliable one but Olsen is surely the worst. 
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on July 31, 2023, 08:27:20 PM
I look at those names and then compare them against Olsen and think to myself, yeah i'd take Spink over him. I mean Nigel is 65 next week but i'd still pick him over Olsen.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: SoccerHQ on July 31, 2023, 08:29:35 PM
Second keepers we've had have included Spink, Bosnich, Spink again, Oakes, Guzan and Given. It's been a long time since we had a reliable one but Olsen is surely the worst. 

Steer is probably the best in recent times. Came in and did o.k in his early seasons in cup games and when he finally got a consistent run he became a bit of a cult hero in the famous penalty shoot out.

Shows how bad our strategy was back then we keep putting him out on loan even after relegation and eventually ended up with Bunn somehow number one again halfway through the first season in the championship.

Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Risso on July 31, 2023, 09:42:18 PM
Second keepers we've had have included Spink, Bosnich, Spink again, Oakes, Guzan and Given. It's been a long time since we had a reliable one but Olsen is surely the worst. 

Oakes was pretty good, and even Enckelman as a reserve was decent enough. Postma was OK as a back up as well.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Percy McCarthy on August 01, 2023, 05:44:59 AM
Second keepers we've had have included Spink, Bosnich, Spink again, Oakes, Guzan and Given. It's been a long time since we had a reliable one but Olsen is surely the worst. 

Oakes was pretty good, and even Enckelman as a reserve was decent enough. Postma was OK as a back up as well.

Oakes was a nervous wreck when playing at the Holte End, according to Gregory. Clean sheets at the other end.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Gareth on August 01, 2023, 07:40:42 AM
In defence of Olsen, he is the first number 2 who is expected to use his feet proactively-he would have been fine as a bench option if every ball was bumped up to a big lad up top…. as a shot stopper he’s ok, it’s the passing….he’d terrify me passing the parcel.

I’d put Marschall ahead of him but really hope we bring in a proper 2nd choice who we are scared to see in Cups or when Emi comes back from international duty if required.

Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: not3bad on August 01, 2023, 08:40:13 AM
Unai Emery might know six Aston Villa starters vs Newcastle after USA tour

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/unai-emery-might-know-six-27432937
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Risso on August 01, 2023, 08:55:14 AM
In defence of Olsen, he is the first number 2 who is expected to use his feet proactively-he would have been fine as a bench option if every ball was bumped up to a big lad up top…. as a shot stopper he’s ok, it’s the passing….he’d terrify me passing the parcel.

I’d put Marschall ahead of him but really hope we bring in a proper 2nd choice who we are scared to see in Cups or when Emi comes back from international duty if required.



The many goals he's shipped in his few games indicate to me that his shot stopping is as bad as everything else.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: maidstonevillain on August 01, 2023, 09:14:45 AM
Second keepers we've had have included Spink, Bosnich, Spink again, Oakes, Guzan and Given. It's been a long time since we had a reliable one but Olsen is surely the worst. 

What about Steer being in there somewhere. Although was he actually ever a Number 2. He either seemed to spend his time at Villa as No.3/Permanent loanee or as No.1.

Is he still injured?. We could do worse than resign him.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Gareth on August 01, 2023, 09:17:12 AM
I think his shot stopping is competent enough but what we can’t have is 40k intaking breath everytime the ball is near his feet….it transmits through the team so god knows what it does to his confidence.  I don’t think that is something that can change either so best cutting losses now before he costs us another cup competition
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Dave on August 01, 2023, 09:40:51 AM
I think his shot stopping is competent enough but what we can’t have is 40k intaking breath everytime the ball is near his feet….it transmits through the team so god knows what it does to his confidence.  I don’t think that is something that can change either so best cutting losses now before he costs us another cup competition

That's basically it. The relationship between the keeper, defence and the crowd is massive.

Once the mutual confidence is gone, it's just a downward spiral - lack of confidence breeds mistakes, which reduces mutual confidence, which creates more mistakes.

Guzan is the best recent example - looked completely imperious at times, then a few bad mistakes, the crowd starts to get jittery when the ball goes near him, he stops coming for crosses and he's screwed forever.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 01, 2023, 09:47:00 AM
I think his shot stopping is competent enough but what we can’t have is 40k intaking breath everytime the ball is near his feet….it transmits through the team so god knows what it does to his confidence.  I don’t think that is something that can change either so best cutting losses now before he costs us another cup competition

That's basically it. The relationship between the keeper, defence and the crowd is massive.

Once the mutual confidence is gone, it's just a downward spiral - lack of confidence breeds mistakes, which reduces mutual confidence, which creates more mistakes.

Guzan is the best recent example - looked completely imperious at times, then a few bad mistakes, the crowd starts to get jittery when the ball goes near him, he stops coming for crosses and he's screwed forever.
same has happened to Maguire at Manure.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: brontebilly on August 01, 2023, 10:00:10 AM
I hate him. He's absolutely shite.

Hate is too strong but he's monumentally useless. Every fan in the stadium and more worryingly every other player in our team does too. Our defenders don't want to pass to him, they also won't want to play a high line with him as he's too slow to leave his box. We had this before in the championship in the era of Kalinic, Bunn(y), Nyland, they just spread panic throughout the team.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: brontebilly on August 01, 2023, 10:20:47 AM
------------Martinez
Cash, Konsa, Mings, Moreno
---------Luiz, Kamara
McGinn--------------Ramsey
-------Buendia, Watkins

Subs from - Torres, Carlos, Digne, Tielemans, Diaby, Archer, Philogene, A Ramsey, Iroegbunam, Chambers, Olsen

I'm expecting big things from Buendia this season. Emery does like the wide forward option though as seen with Bailey last season so Diaby will be pushing hard once he settles in. Injuries to Moreno and Ramsey do give opportunities early to others on our left flank. But our X1 from last season is still a very strong one, that midfield four has the potential to be one of the best in the division.

Id like to think a backup keeper is still a must, I'd prefer a genuine challenge to Cash but expect we would have already got a RB in if that was a priority. Looks like Konsa/Chambers will cover there which I'm not keen on. Big decisions on the likes of Philogene, Tim, A Ramsey, Archer...not sure what further championship loans achieve at this stage of their careers.

Still think Coutinho, Donk, Hause, Bailey, Traore, Duran, Davis will leave in next few weeks. Emery likes a smaller squad.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Dave on August 01, 2023, 10:22:47 AM
I think his shot stopping is competent enough but what we can’t have is 40k intaking breath everytime the ball is near his feet….it transmits through the team so god knows what it does to his confidence.  I don’t think that is something that can change either so best cutting losses now before he costs us another cup competition

That's basically it. The relationship between the keeper, defence and the crowd is massive.

Once the mutual confidence is gone, it's just a downward spiral - lack of confidence breeds mistakes, which reduces mutual confidence, which creates more mistakes.

Guzan is the best recent example - looked completely imperious at times, then a few bad mistakes, the crowd starts to get jittery when the ball goes near him, he stops coming for crosses and he's screwed forever.
same has happened to Maguire at Manure.

Yup, a good example.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Risso on August 01, 2023, 10:28:34 AM
The trouble with Olsen is that there was no confidence there to start with, and he's just gone from bad to worse.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Brend'Watkins on August 01, 2023, 10:36:34 AM
I think his shot stopping is competent enough but what we can’t have is 40k intaking breath everytime the ball is near his feet….it transmits through the team so god knows what it does to his confidence.  I don’t think that is something that can change either so best cutting losses now before he costs us another cup competition

That's basically it. The relationship between the keeper, defence and the crowd is massive.

Once the mutual confidence is gone, it's just a downward spiral - lack of confidence breeds mistakes, which reduces mutual confidence, which creates more mistakes.

Guzan is the best recent example - looked completely imperious at times, then a few bad mistakes, the crowd starts to get jittery when the ball goes near him, he stops coming for crosses and he's screwed forever.
same has happened to Maguire at Manure.

Yup, a good example.

Surely Emery is aware of this? McPhee and other backroom staff will if he isn't and should be letting him know because the relationship with the crowd is crucial and not just on here but everyone I talk to is of a similar opinion.  Maybe behind the scenes they are working on it.  Dread to think what the reaction will be if we don't get anyone decent as back up and Olsen is called upon. It's a future mistake by Emery waiting to happen and a mistake that can be avoided.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Dave on August 01, 2023, 10:40:11 AM
I think his shot stopping is competent enough but what we can’t have is 40k intaking breath everytime the ball is near his feet….it transmits through the team so god knows what it does to his confidence.  I don’t think that is something that can change either so best cutting losses now before he costs us another cup competition

That's basically it. The relationship between the keeper, defence and the crowd is massive.

Once the mutual confidence is gone, it's just a downward spiral - lack of confidence breeds mistakes, which reduces mutual confidence, which creates more mistakes.

Guzan is the best recent example - looked completely imperious at times, then a few bad mistakes, the crowd starts to get jittery when the ball goes near him, he stops coming for crosses and he's screwed forever.
same has happened to Maguire at Manure.

Yup, a good example.

Surely Emery is aware of this? McPhee and other backroom staff will if he isn't and should be letting him know because the relationship with the crowd is crucial and not just on here but everyone I talk to is of a similar opinion.  Maybe behind the scenes they are working on it.  Dread to think what the reaction will be if we don't get anyone decent as back up and Olsen is called upon. It's a future mistake by Emery waiting to happen and a mistake that can be avoided.

As Gareth says, it's too far gone now I reckon.

I don't think there's anything that Emery et al can do which isn't going to stop the crowd groaning if they hear Olsen's name being accounced. He's 33 now, I reckon an easy few years at Malmö or somewhere is probably best for everyone.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Risso on August 01, 2023, 10:44:44 AM
What's the likely situation with Martinez and being away with Argentina this coming season?
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: rougegorge on August 01, 2023, 11:02:11 AM
What's the likely situation with Martinez and being away with Argentina this coming season?
The South American World Cup Qualifiers start
with 2 games in September (Bolivia away at altitude as the 2nd one), then 2 more in October (with Peru away as the 2nd) and another 2 in November (with Brazil away in the 2nd).

No more WC qualifiers then until Sept 2024, but there may be friendlies in the designated international week in March.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: coreyfeldman on August 01, 2023, 12:49:10 PM
Guess for starting team v Newcastle

Martinez
Pau
Mings
Konsa
Cash
Kamara
Luiz
Mcginn
Buendia
Diaby
Watkins

Good chance that Cash, Tielemans, Philogene and Digne will also get minutes IMO
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Hookeysmith on August 01, 2023, 01:59:02 PM
I like the fact that he tried to attack down the right rather than keep to the left that has been so good. Clearly it worked as well.

I can see the players now on the bench to change sides for attacking in game and think that is a great position to be in
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Percy McCarthy on August 02, 2023, 05:12:08 AM
Guess for starting team v Newcastle

Martinez
Pau
Mings
Konsa
Cash
Kamara
Luiz
Mcginn
Buendia
Diaby
Watkins



That’s my guess too. With Ramsay to replace Buendia and Moreno to replace Cash (and the other three of the back four to shuffle across one place) when all fit.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: FatSam on August 02, 2023, 10:33:44 AM
Whenever I read this thread title I think that someone is looking for advice on package holidays.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: edgysatsuma89 on August 02, 2023, 03:56:29 PM
Guess for starting team v Newcastle

Martinez
Pau
Mings
Konsa
Cash
Kamara
Luiz
Mcginn
Buendia
Diaby
Watkins



That’s my guess too. With Ramsay to replace Buendia and Moreno to replace Cash (and the other three of the back four to shuffle across one place) when all fit.

That's what I said would happen as well Percy in the pre season thread. It will depend on which side he wants to attack down.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: London Villan on August 03, 2023, 09:26:47 PM
Teilemans will now probably start. Who for though?
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: pelty on August 03, 2023, 09:59:28 PM
Teilemans will now probably start. Who for though?

Buendia. Not a like-for-like, so may have to shift McGinn? Good problem to have!
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Ian. on August 03, 2023, 10:04:36 PM
For the first time in years I have no idea what our best 11 is.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: ChicagoLion on August 03, 2023, 10:07:11 PM
Teilemans will now probably start. Who for though?

Buendia. Not a like-for-like, so may have to shift McGinn? Good problem to have!
I thought that before tonight, Newcastle away is about getting to grip in midfield so I think he starts with Kamara Mcginn Luiz Tielmens.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: VillaTim on August 03, 2023, 10:08:14 PM
Teilemans will now probably start. Who for though?
Luiz and Kamara fighting for a place now to partner Tielemans
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Villan82 on August 04, 2023, 09:34:59 AM
We need to move away from the idea of a first eleven. The new 5 subs rule means it is really a first 16. And with Unai as manager there are different roles for different systems.

In defence, Konsa, Mings, Pau will all get games. Occasionally the three will start together, with either Konsa or Pau deployed in Unai's flexible tucked in full back role whereas Cash, Digne and Moreno will get games in the more attacking full back role.

In midfield it is an embarrassment of riches. So many options. With European football to worry about we will be able to rotate plenty and keep all the options nice and fresh.

Up top we can really mix and match. Diaby can play anywhere across the front three. We can play Buendia and Coutinho up there floating about behind a main striker or we can stick somebody like Diaby and/or Bailey out wide. We can play as a three up top or in the same formation as last year, a sort of 4-2-2-2.

We have the players. We have the squad. We have the manager. We have the owners. What a difference five years makes.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Clark W Griswold on August 04, 2023, 10:16:04 AM
I think vs Newcastle…
Martinez
Cash
Konsa
Mings
Torres
Luiz
Kamara
McGinn
Tielemans
Diaby
Watkins

I like the idea of this 3 centre backs with 1 full back bombing on, very easy to change shape and become a lot more defensive or attacking immediately.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: WarszaVillan on August 04, 2023, 10:28:48 AM
Teilemans will now probably start. Who for though?
Luiz and Kamara fighting for a place now to partner Tielemans

After yesterday I think so. I can't see Luiz not starting, so I think it will be Kamara fighting for his place. That's some midfield we have.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Drummond on August 04, 2023, 10:30:50 AM
I can see all sorts of combinations and my bet would be on Kamara, Luiz and McGinn starting against Newcastle with Tielemans coming on later.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: chrisw1 on August 04, 2023, 11:13:54 AM
I haven't seen all the friendlies, but am I right in thinking that Mings and Torres haven't played together yet as a conventional centre back pairing?
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: chrisw1 on August 04, 2023, 11:15:07 AM
I can see all sorts of combinations and my bet would be on Kamara, Luiz and McGinn starting against Newcastle with Tielemans coming on later.
I think they'll all start, with Tielemans in the Ramsey role.  I hope so anyway.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: brontebilly on August 04, 2023, 02:30:07 PM
I can see all sorts of combinations and my bet would be on Kamara, Luiz and McGinn starting against Newcastle with Tielemans coming on later.
I think they'll all start, with Tielemans in the Ramsey role.  I hope so anyway.

That's a fudge though. Really it's Luiz v Tielemans (as we still need a ball winner/physical presence in there with Kamara for most games). There aren't many clubs in the PL with those kind of options. McGinn did well for us next to Luiz last season but he's better further up like he when he destroyed Burn from Newcastle.

There's another fudge developing at the back with Torres v Mings. With Moreno out, it does give an option of squeezing Torres out there but that's only temporary as Moreno contributes a lot going forward. Don't think Emery rates Digne all that much, which I'd be in agreement with. I just remember MON at this kind of craic with likes of Cuellar and NRC in years gone by, squeezing them into the team at RB but weakening balance of the team as a result.

I'd fully support if Emery was going to rotate a squad of 18-20 players all season where we rarely see the same X1 play two games in a row.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: chrisw1 on August 04, 2023, 03:07:47 PM
I don't think it's a fudge at all.  Tielemans is most similar to Luiz, but he can definitely play more advanced and I think it may work well against the stronger teams.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: wittonwarrior on August 04, 2023, 04:59:35 PM
Pretty sure that Emery isn't 100% sure so how can we guess.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: tomd2103 on August 04, 2023, 11:58:40 PM
Would think that the team that starts at Valencia will pretty much be the team for next Saturday.  Would expect them to play together for 60ish minutes before the subs start.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: N'ZMAV on August 05, 2023, 11:32:02 AM
Ideally, if we could move on Dendoncker, Coutinho and Traore - and bring in one more forward. That'd be ace.
Would like another right back, but Cash is looking good and Chambers is decent cover albeit different
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: N'ZMAV on August 05, 2023, 11:33:27 AM
we need a bigger squad with 38 league games, at least 2 cup games and likely to be a raft of european games
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: dicedlam on August 05, 2023, 12:06:37 PM
Ideally, if we could move on Dendoncker, Coutinho and Traore - and bring in one more forward. That'd be ace.
Would like another right back, but Cash is looking good and Chambers is decent cover albeit different

Maybe Dendoncker and Traore, but I wouldn't be selling Coutinho anytime soon, unless the Saudis offer stupid money.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Footy-Vill on August 05, 2023, 06:30:07 PM
 Martinez, Pau Torres, Douglas Luiz, Youri Tielemans, John McGinn, Mo Diaby, and Ollie Watkins are the players that come to mind as First Choice
When Moreno is fit, I would include him as well.
Emery has signed four of these players, therefore I think they are first choicers and the other 4 are essential to the team.

So there leaves 3 positions open for rotation based on systems, strategies, and availability.
As the 8 players I consider to be first choices too will also be rotated in terms of being rested and sometimes left out from minor matches, and of course when they are injured or suspended.

The whole squad will be utilised every match and all season but I've chosen 8 of 11 first choice players who Emery sees as his core and spine, who I champion will be played in the important and biggest games, and who are generally the strongest players in Emery's system and playing methods: football.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Louzie0 on August 05, 2023, 06:40:05 PM
I’m crap at this, sorry Footy.
I don’t want to sell anybody!
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Footy-Vill on August 05, 2023, 06:51:21 PM
I’m crap at this, sorry Footy.
I don’t want to sell anybody!
Not at all. I agree in some ways!  Though I am referencing first choicers rather than advocating selling players who aren't starting.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Astnor on August 06, 2023, 09:11:09 AM
Team and squad for Newcastle based on the friendlies:
Martinez - Cash, Konsa, Mings, Digne - McGinn, Kamara, Luiz, Buendia - Diaby, Watkins
Bench: Olsen - Chambers, Carlos, Torres - Tielemans, Couthino, Bailey - Jaden Philogene, Archer
Injuried or not fit yet: Moreno, Ramsey, Dendoncker, Traore, Duran
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: AV84 on August 06, 2023, 09:24:40 AM
Ideally, if we could move on Dendoncker, Coutinho and Traore - and bring in one more forward. That'd be ace.
Would like another right back, but Cash is looking good and Chambers is decent cover albeit different

Maybe Dendoncker and Traore, but I wouldn't be selling Coutinho anytime soon, unless the Saudis offer stupid money.

That's the problem isn't it. The one we'd like to sell the least is the one we'd probably get the most money for. We'd probably get as much from an oil state for Coutinho as we would from European clubs for the other 2 combined .
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: Astnor on August 06, 2023, 10:06:55 AM
When Ramsey comes back and regain his place on midfield left and Buendia might get the nod just ahead of Diaby as a 10 we go the same team as we had when we ended last season so strongly. Not easy to buy players to improve that team then.
Title: Re: First Choice?
Post by: tomd2103 on August 06, 2023, 11:26:27 AM
Team and squad for Newcastle based on the friendlies:
Martinez - Cash, Konsa, Mings, Digne - McGinn, Kamara, Luiz, Buendia - Diaby, Watkins
Bench: Olsen - Chambers, Carlos, Torres - Tielemans, Couthino, Bailey - Jaden Philogene, Archer
Injuried or not fit yet: Moreno, Ramsey, Dendoncker, Traore, Duran

Agree with your starting XI, but I think Torres will start ahead of Digne.  Not what I would go with personally, but can see it happening.
SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal