Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: dave.woodhall on May 01, 2023, 09:34:43 PM
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JR casts his eye beyond Villa Park.
https://heroesandvillains.info/2023/05/01/i-remember-when/
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Remember quite a few of those…….Damn I feel old.
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There was a snooker hall above every branch of Burton‘s Tailors
Does anybody know the story to this one?
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There was a snooker hall above every branch of Burton‘s Tailors
Does anybody know the story to this one?
There's probably an urban myth, but the truth is that the halls subsidised the running costs of the shops and the players would get their clothes from there.
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The Cannon Hill Park tulip festival and local carnivals.
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The Birmingham Show in Perry Park.
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That circular cafe in the underpass below Corporation St/Bull Street. You could sit in round bright orange chairs, my Mom would take us in there for a treat when we went to town, a jam doughnut and a glass of orange squash. Then off to the food hall at BHS for a bag of broken biscuits.
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Chimpanzees in cages on the top floor of Lewis's.
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There was a snooker hall above every branch of Burton‘s Tailors
Does anybody know the story to this one?
There's probably an urban myth, but the truth is that the halls subsidised the running costs of the shops and the players would get their clothes from there.
I certainly played snooker above the Burton's in Sutton when I was a teenager. This was back in the 1980s.
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There was a snooker hall above every branch of Burton‘s Tailors
Does anybody know the story to this one?
There's probably an urban myth, but the truth is that the halls subsidised the running costs of the shops and the players would get their clothes from there.
I certainly played snooker above the Burton's in Sutton when I was a teenager. This was back in the 1980s.
Did you know a guy called Dave Whitlock? Small, fairly quiet. Went to Vesey with him in the '80s. He was a regular at that club, I believe
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Chimpanzees in cages on the top floor of Lewis's.
Were they dressed in Royal Blue shirts and white shorts?
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A lot of this is before my time but some of it isn’t and it takes me back. A great read, thanks.
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I certainly played snooker above the Burton's in Sutton when I was a teenager. This was back in the 1980s.
It was the same in Aylesbury when I was at school in the 80s. Some bright spark at our school decided that the lower 6th could choose what they wanted to do for games, so we could pick between the usual football/rugby, or walk into town for swimming, ten pin bowling or snooker. We opted for snooker (above a Burtons) and spent the afternoon drinking, smoking and playing on the fruit machines with the odd game of snooker chucked in. We'd go back to school stinking of fags and a bit worse for wear.
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Back in town on a bus before Lewis’s shut on a Saturday afternoon after a 3 o’clock kick off.
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There was a snooker hall above every branch of Burton‘s Tailors
Does anybody know the story to this one?
There's probably an urban myth, but the truth is that the halls subsidised the running costs of the shops and the players would get their clothes from there.
I certainly played snooker above the Burton's in Sutton when I was a teenager. This was back in the 1980s.
Did you know a guy called Dave Whitlock? Small, fairly quiet. Went to Vesey with him in the '80s. He was a regular at that club, I believe
I didn't. A bunch of us at Streetly Comp sixth form were allowed to play golf for PE on Wednesday afternoons, if the weather was bad we'd go to the snooker hall instead. We didn't get to know any other members.
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I was surprised to find out that there was even a games option requirement when I went up to Vesey 6th (wadda mistake-a to make-a) although voluntary service and table tennis were options. Cricket for summer term. The important thing was that I didn't have to do rugby or cross country
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Frequent mentions of public transport in John's entertaining article which got me reminiscing about the night service buses back in the day. Tumbling out of whichever club at ten to the hour, grabbing a pie at the pie van at Snow Hill and then onto one of the night buses, which all left on the hour, and into a bizarre smokey world of drunks, clubbers, nightworkers and ,usually, happy people. Some of my most entertaining conversations have taken place with complete strangers on those buses. You'd often see the same people on the morning bus heading for work and share a knowing smile.
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The bit of the bull ring outside by where Mark One was later on, a two floor shop block, one of which was a doughnut shop where you'd watch the doughnuts come off the end of the conveyor belt into a tray of sugar.
You could smell the doughnuts for a radius of about a mile.
I also recall there was a mucky sexy shop on that row of shops, too.
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I was surprised to find out that there was even a games option requirement when I went up to Vesey 6th (wadda mistake-a to make-a) although voluntary service and table tennis were options. Cricket for summer term. The important thing was that I didn't have to do rugby or cross country
I went to posh school, we were forced to do cross country and rugby, I hated both.
On a friday afternoon, we also had CCF (combined cadet force) which meant joining either the army or navy cadets and going to school dressed like a fucking sailor in flares or only slightly less embarassing, like a soldier.
The alternative was to opt out and do 'community service'. Me and a mate took that route - not being funny, I'm not dressing like a sailor for anyone - and got sent to help out in a rough-as-nails primary school in Lee Bank. The kids, despite them being about 10 and us 15, were fucking terrifying.
We'd walk to the school through the estate, past the rough as fuck tower blocks, absolutely shitting ourselves. In full school uniform, I've never felt so out of place in my home town in my life.
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The tribulations of cross country running in games. Being of the lardarse persuasion they were particulaly torturous for the likes of me and my ilk. Many were the times when the course we had to run took in a good section of roadway. It was this section of the run that saw a plethora of fat fuckers all piled on to the back of an unsuspecting milkman's float.
It was an annual thing in my school that the boys of each year, first, second, etc were all sent out to run this cross country event and the finish in the playground would be lined with all the girls of said year along with the crippled and insane and they would be taking the unmerciful piss out of all the fat 'uns that were coming in blowing out of their arses almost to the point of coronary arrest. My claim to fame is that for the four years I attended that school I managed to come up with a perfect excuse not to take part.
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The bit of the bull ring outside by where Mark One was later on, a two floor shop block, one of which was a doughnut shop where you'd watch the doughnuts come off the end of the conveyor belt into a tray of sugar.
You could smell the doughnuts for a radius of about a mile.
I also recall there was a mucky sexy shop on that row of shops, too.
Plus a reggae record shop, and a cafe with Space Invaders on the glass tables.
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I was surprised to find out that there was even a games option requirement when I went up to Vesey 6th (wadda mistake-a to make-a) although voluntary service and table tennis were options. Cricket for summer term. The important thing was that I didn't have to do rugby or cross country
I went to posh school, we were forced to do cross country and rugby, I hated both.
On a friday afternoon, we also had CCF (combined cadet force) which meant joining either the army or navy cadets and going to school dressed like a fucking sailor in flares or only slightly less embarassing, like a soldier.
The alternative was to opt out and do 'community service'. Me and a mate took that route - not being funny, I'm not dressing like a sailor for anyone - and got sent to help out in a rough-as-nails primary school in Lee Bank. The kids, despite them being about 10 and us 15, were fucking terrifying.
We'd walk to the school through the estate, past the rough as fuck tower blocks, absolutely shitting ourselves. In full school uniform, I've never felt so out of place in my home town in my life.
Haha, brilliant.
Reminds me of when we used to wag it and go shoplifting in places like Leamington or Warwick. But, like, the other way round.
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There was a snooker hall above every branch of Burton‘s Tailors
Does anybody know the story to this one?
There's probably an urban myth, but the truth is that the halls subsidised the running costs of the shops and the players would get their clothes from there.
I certainly played snooker above the Burton's in Sutton when I was a teenager. This was back in the 1980s.
Rileys wasn't it? A few hundred yards up the road from my old school.
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The tribulations of cross country running in games. Being of the lardarse persuasion they were particulaly torturous for the likes of me and my ilk. Many were the times when the course we had to run took in a good section of roadway. It was this section of the run that saw a plethora of fat fuckers all piled on to the back of an unsuspecting milkman's float.
It was an annual thing in my school that the boys of each year, first, second, etc were all sent out to run this cross country event and the finish in the playground would be lined with all the girls of said year along with the crippled and insane and they would be taking the unmerciful piss out of all the fat 'uns that were coming in blowing out of their arses almost to the point of coronary arrest. My claim to fame is that for the four years I attended that school I managed to come up with a perfect excuse not to take part.
I bloody hated cross country, I was always last in the year, apart from the really fat lad Stewart who used to throw up after about 50 yards then be excused the rest of the run. At the end of the 4th year I spent the summer holidays getting fit and running or cycling everywhere. Then when it came to the inter form cross-country that autumns, I'd never felt so confident. I was going to stride out like an olympian and really impress the teachers, the people in my year and most importantly, Andrea Green whose affections I yearned for. Anyway the starter klaxon went, and off I sprinted. Only to pull a muscle in my calf, and hobble home last. Arse.
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The bit of the bull ring outside by where Mark One was later on, a two floor shop block, one of which was a doughnut shop where you'd watch the doughnuts come off the end of the conveyor belt into a tray of sugar.
You could smell the doughnuts for a radius of about a mile.
I also recall there was a mucky sexy shop on that row of shops, too.
Plus a reggae record shop, and a cafe with Space Invaders on the glass tables.
Was there a poster and badge shop up there as well?
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The bit of the bull ring outside by where Mark One was later on, a two floor shop block, one of which was a doughnut shop where you'd watch the doughnuts come off the end of the conveyor belt into a tray of sugar.
You could smell the doughnuts for a radius of about a mile.
I also recall there was a mucky sexy shop on that row of shops, too.
Plus a reggae record shop, and a cafe with Space Invaders on the glass tables.
Summit Records?
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Saturday mornings...Either going to the Pavillion bowling alley on the corner of Gravelly Lane/Chester Road and playing the flipper machines OR into town and going to the old Virgin records top end of Corporation Street just past Harry Parkes.
Saturday afternoon. The underneath of the old Witton Lane stand was quite cramped with a low ceiling, this really exacerbated the combined smell of bovril and nicotine at half time. An old bloke appearing through the smoke with his arm in the air "Get your Villa bingo tickets !".
Making sure your programme had the football league review in it.
Walking across the old Serpentine car park, taking massive detours around giant muddy puddles. (Peppa pig hadn't even been born then).
Regarding car travel to away games. Putting those thin silk Villa scarves out the window, wrecked in no time !
By the way there was nothing wrong with school cross country running. (This was at Wilmott with the legendary Scots lunatic Doc Campbell, in charge of cross country and a science master who managed to poison himself by drinking his tea from a chemistry beaker).
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The bit of the bull ring outside by where Mark One was later on, a two floor shop block, one of which was a doughnut shop where you'd watch the doughnuts come off the end of the conveyor belt into a tray of sugar.
You could smell the doughnuts for a radius of about a mile.
I also recall there was a mucky sexy shop on that row of shops, too.
Plus a reggae record shop, and a cafe with Space Invaders on the glass tables.
Summit Records?
Either that or Don Christie, can’t remember.
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The bit of the bull ring outside by where Mark One was later on, a two floor shop block, one of which was a doughnut shop where you'd watch the doughnuts come off the end of the conveyor belt into a tray of sugar.
You could smell the doughnuts for a radius of about a mile.
I also recall there was a mucky sexy shop on that row of shops, too.
Plus a reggae record shop, and a cafe with Space Invaders on the glass tables.
Summit Records?
Either that or Don Christie, can’t remember.
Don Christies was stuck alongside the Rag market. Are you sure you're a Brummie? ;)
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The bit of the bull ring outside by where Mark One was later on, a two floor shop block, one of which was a doughnut shop where you'd watch the doughnuts come off the end of the conveyor belt into a tray of sugar.
You could smell the doughnuts for a radius of about a mile.
I also recall there was a mucky sexy shop on that row of shops, too.
Plus a reggae record shop, and a cafe with Space Invaders on the glass tables.
Summit Records?
Either that or Don Christie, can’t remember.
Don Christies was stuck alongside the Rag market. Are you sure you're a Brummie? ;)
Did you know the name of it then?
*Re-reads post* No, you didn’t.
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The old Bull Ring where my dad and I sat at a stall and ate our threpenny dish of muscles, scruffy and wonderful at the same time, Saturday matinees at the Clifton Cinema the best sixpence ever spent, think kids are missing out today.
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Hopefully another poster can verify my story, as most people think this is a outlandish dream. Back in the early/mid 70's I was taken to see Santa at Lewis's department store on Corporation St. Queuing up with my older sisters and younger brother I crawled under a big heavy curtain (which was acting as a partition) , where to my surprise there was another queue of families and another Santa. The second queue was Black families waiting to see Black Santa. I crawled back under the curtain and asked my sisters what was going on (I thought there was only one Santa) !
I've since asked one of my sisters about this , and although she can't remember it , she has a vague recollection of my bizarre story. I did think about writing to Carl Chinn and asking if he could throw any light on this.
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Hopefully another poster can verify my story, as most people think this is a outlandish dream. Back in the early/mid 70's I was taken to see Santa at Lewis's department store on Corporation St. Queuing up with my older sisters and younger brother I crawled under a big heavy curtain (which was acting as a partition) , where to my surprise there was another queue of families and another Santa. The second queue was Black families waiting to see Black Santa. I crawled back under the curtain and asked my sisters what was going on (I thought there was only one Santa) !
I've since asked one of my sisters about this , and although she can't remember it , she has a vague recollection of my bizarre story. I did think about writing to Carl Chinn and asking if he could throw any light on this.
I remeber going to see Father Christmas there, but don't recall it being segregated like that, but then I probably wouldn't have understood what was going on anyway. I vaguely recall there being some tiger or leopard cubs there one year as well.
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I trust you told the bearded lefty that his present redistribution stinks of Corbynism.
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I trust you told the bearded lefty that his present redistribution stinks of Corbynism.
Sadly not , I think I asked for a Scalextric !
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I had a recollection of there being a mini Villa shop in the foyer of what was then Carrefour (now Asda) in Minworth. No-one else I know recalls this and I too think I might have dreamed it. Would have been early to mid 80s.
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The old Bull Ring where my dad and I sat at a stall and ate our threpenny dish of muscles, scruffy and wonderful at the same time, Saturday matinees at the Clifton Cinema the best sixpence ever spent, think kids are missing out today.
If that's the Clifton Cinema Walsall Road I went there too. The Saturday morning kids matinee was a lawless mayhem! Historically the cinema holds a significant place in the area's history. It would throw open its cellars to local people during bombing raids in World War two. Also it's position at the top of the hill overlooking Perry Barr and Witton meant it's roof was used throughout the conflict as an observation point by the Home Guard and other organisations. Arguably more damage was done by 200 6-10 year olds running riot on a Saturday morning though!.
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The ABC Minors song - sang at the Saturday Morning pictures in Selly Oak (lovely old picture house no longer there)
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Sorry FrankyH but that’s a Cock’n Bull story. In them days no one had that sort of awareness and I am glad for that. It’s the wrong sort of diversification.
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I was surprised to find out that there was even a games option requirement when I went up to Vesey 6th (wadda mistake-a to make-a) although voluntary service and table tennis were options. Cricket for summer term. The important thing was that I didn't have to do rugby or cross country
Did "Dingle Dann" still run the Cross Country team then?
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The old Bull Ring where my dad and I sat at a stall and ate our threpenny dish of muscles, scruffy and wonderful at the same time, Saturday matinees at the Clifton Cinema the best sixpence ever spent, think kids are missing out today.
For us Saturday morning pictures was the Essoldo in Longbridge, sadly it’s a gym now.
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The bit of the bull ring outside by where Mark One was later on, a two floor shop block, one of which was a doughnut shop where you'd watch the doughnuts come off the end of the conveyor belt into a tray of sugar.
You could smell the doughnuts for a radius of about a mile.
I also recall there was a mucky sexy shop on that row of shops, too.
Plus a reggae record shop, and a cafe with Space Invaders on the glass tables.
Summit Records?
Either that or Don Christie, can’t remember.
Don Christies was stuck alongside the Rag market. Are you sure you're a Brummie? ;)
Did you know the name of it then?
*Re-reads post* No, you didn’t.
It was the doughnut shop that threw me. There was a chippy up there but I've never been a fan of doughnuts, you doughnut! ;)
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The old Bull Ring where my dad and I sat at a stall and ate our threpenny dish of muscles, scruffy and wonderful at the same time, Saturday matinees at the Clifton Cinema the best sixpence ever spent, think kids are missing out today.
For us Saturday morning pictures was the Essoldo in Longbridge, sadly it’s a gym now.
I remember everybody having to stand at the end for the national anthem. There'd be a jobsworth with a torch checking that everybody was standing and not a chance you could just walk out.
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The Birmingham Show in Perry Park.
Spent every year of my childhood looking forward to that - Aircraft, tanks, Dog show, flower show and the annual challenge of sneaking in via the canal.
Redingtons records for posters and err records.
The gun and hunting shop in Carrs lane.
The blue corrugated fly over in Digbeth
King Kong
Ellis ordering the mud patch of our pitch to be painted green.
My Dad asking the turnstile man if it was half price for kids only for the guy to pocket 50p and lift me over.
My first concert at Odeon New Street to see Blondie in 1978 - was 75p
Top walkway of the Bullring (that ended with a merry go round) was my favourite as when going with my parents we would always get a bag of sugary doughnuts.
All of it seems a world away now - but still fondly remembered
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I had a recollection of there being a mini Villa shop in the foyer of what was then Carrefour (now Asda) in Minworth. No-one else I know recalls this and I too think I might have dreamed it. Would have been early to mid 80s.
I worked there a few evenings a week after school around that time and can't remember there being one. Bob Carolgees's sister also worked there, you could ask her.
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Johnny Dixons daughter worked there as well, albeit late 80s/early 90s.
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Sorry FrankyH but that’s a Cock’n Bull story. In them days no one had that sort of awareness and I am glad for that. It’s the wrong sort of diversification.
I'm pretty sure in my mind it happened. Like I say it was a long time ago. I doubt it because it's a hazy memory. It's not cock n' bull.
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The old Bull Ring where my dad and I sat at a stall and ate our threpenny dish of muscles, scruffy and wonderful at the same time, Saturday matinees at the Clifton Cinema the best sixpence ever spent, think kids are missing out today.
If that's the Clifton Cinema Walsall Road I went there too. The Saturday morning kids matinee was a lawless mayhem! Historically the cinema holds a significant place in the area's history. It would throw open its cellars to local people during bombing raids in World War two. Also it's position at the top of the hill overlooking Perry Barr and Witton meant it's roof was used throughout the conflict as an observation point by the Home Guard and other organisations. Arguably more damage was done by 200 6-10 year olds running riot on a Saturday morning though!.
I would also have been one of those 6 to 10 year olds as well.
A banqueting suite now after it was the obligatory bingo hall for a while.
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The old Bull Ring where my dad and I sat at a stall and ate our threpenny dish of muscles, scruffy and wonderful at the same time, Saturday matinees at the Clifton Cinema the best sixpence ever spent, think kids are missing out today.
If that's the Clifton Cinema Walsall Road I went there too. The Saturday morning kids matinee was a lawless mayhem! Historically the cinema holds a significant place in the area's history. It would throw open its cellars to local people during bombing raids in World War two. Also it's position at the top of the hill overlooking Perry Barr and Witton meant it's roof was used throughout the conflict as an observation point by the Home Guard and other organisations. Arguably more damage was done by 200 6-10 year olds running riot on a Saturday morning though!.
I would also have been one of those 6 to 10 year olds as well.
A banqueting suite now after it was the obligatory bingo hall for a while.
I live just down Beeches Rd opposite, and they make a right racket as well with bhangra drums and fireworks.
Bloody asians, they can't even have a wedding without enjoying themselves.
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I had a recollection of there being a mini Villa shop in the foyer of what was then Carrefour (now Asda) in Minworth. No-one else I know recalls this and I too think I might have dreamed it. Would have been early to mid 80s.
I worked there a few evenings a week after school around that time and can't remember there being one. Bob Carolgees's sister also worked there, you could ask her.
We were frequent visitors to the Carrefour from when it opened in '77 (I think) until it became Gateway around 10 years later. Don' t remember a Villa store. Do remember treating the place as a playground and being allowed to by staff
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The old Bull Ring where my dad and I sat at a stall and ate our threpenny dish of muscles, scruffy and wonderful at the same time, Saturday matinees at the Clifton Cinema the best sixpence ever spent, think kids are missing out today.
For us Saturday morning pictures was the Essoldo in Longbridge, sadly it’s a gym now.
I saw Cliff Richard's seminal movie "Summer Holiday" there.
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The ABC Minors song - sang at the Saturday Morning pictures in Selly Oak (lovely old picture house no longer there)
I used to go there. I still remember the ABC Minors badges. Very raucous IIRC.
My first visit to a cinema was there: a double bill of Tarzan and Tom Thumb with my Mom, bless her.
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Sorry FrankyH but that’s a Cock’n Bull story. In them days no one had that sort of awareness and I am glad for that. It’s the wrong sort of diversification.
I'm pretty sure in my mind it happened. Like I say it was a long time ago. I doubt it because it's a hazy memory. It's not cock n' bull.
It could have been a dream. For most of my life I was convinced my Grandparents took us to a lake somewhere outside Birmingham, & we spent the day there, and My Grandad told me that the weeds in that lake would drag you under and kill you, and on the way back we visited an enormous greenhouse. When I asked them about it they genuinely had no memory of it whatsoever and I guess I dreamt it and it became mixed up with other childhood memories.
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The riot house we used to go to on a Saturday morning was the Tivoli at the Swan Yardley. How no one was ever killed or blinded by all the missiles that were hurled around I'll never know, it could have happened; just that I hadn't heard.
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Sorry FrankyH but that’s a Cock’n Bull story. In them days no one had that sort of awareness and I am glad for that. It’s the wrong sort of diversification.
I'm pretty sure in my mind it happened. Like I say it was a long time ago. I doubt it because it's a hazy memory. It's not cock n' bull.
It could have been a dream. For most of my life I was convinced my Grandparents took us to a lake somewhere outside Birmingham, & we spent the day there, and My Grandad told me that the weeds in that lake would drag you under and kill you, and on the way back we visited an enormous greenhouse. When I asked them about it they genuinely had no memory of it whatsoever and I guess I dreamt it and it became mixed up with other childhood memories.
I think at a very young age memories can merge or become affected by your lack of understanding at the time. I have a vivd picture in my head of looking out of my bedroom window in York Rd in Erdington and seeing a ghostly figure in the garden, but I know ghosts are bullshit and we moved from there before my fourth birthday.
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The old Bull Ring where my dad and I sat at a stall and ate our threpenny dish of muscles, scruffy and wonderful at the same time, Saturday matinees at the Clifton Cinema the best sixpence ever spent, think kids are missing out today.
For us Saturday morning pictures was the Essoldo in Longbridge, sadly it’s a gym now.
I saw Cliff Richard's seminal movie "Summer Holiday" there.
My Uncle Bill and Auntie Jean were asked to be extras in Sumer Holiday. They were on their honeymoon at the seaside where they were filming and someone approached them, they turned them down. I thought it was strange when I first found out but subsequently thought that the fact that it was their honeymoon probably explains it.
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The old Bull Ring where my dad and I sat at a stall and ate our threpenny dish of muscles, scruffy and wonderful at the same time, Saturday matinees at the Clifton Cinema the best sixpence ever spent, think kids are missing out today.
If that's the Clifton Cinema Walsall Road I went there too. The Saturday morning kids matinee was a lawless mayhem! Historically the cinema holds a significant place in the area's history. It would throw open its cellars to local people during bombing raids in World War two. Also it's position at the top of the hill overlooking Perry Barr and Witton meant it's roof was used throughout the conflict as an observation point by the Home Guard and other organisations. Arguably more damage was done by 200 6-10 year olds running riot on a Saturday morning though!.
I would also have been one of those 6 to 10 year olds as well.
A banqueting suite now after it was the obligatory bingo hall for a while.
I live just down Beeches Rd opposite, and they make a right racket as well with bhangra drums and fireworks.
Bloody asians, they can't even have a wedding without enjoying themselves.
I saw Tommy, Death Race 2000, Enter the Dragon at the Clifton- all the time being under age.
One of the older lads would pay in and then kick open the fire door for about 10 of us to run in without paying saving our money for the ice creams.
Anyone remember the Odeon in town having the guy with the large Hammond organ playing in the intervals?
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The gun and hunting shop in Carrs Lane.
William Powell & Son (Gunmakers), the oldest family owned gun making company in the UK, founded in 1802. I bought a jacket in their about 20 years ago and still have it, it looks like new. Every time I returned home and went into town I'd try and find the shop and never could. I must have walked around that block so many times. Apparently Powell's was sold back in 2008, the new owners kept it going with the same staff but obviously cashed in with the new development. Last I heard was they'd moved to Banbury and selling online - williampowell.com
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A few pals of mine are into clay shooting at that came up last year, apparently they still service guns but no longer make them.
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There were still two gun shops/makers in the Gun Quarter last time I walked round.
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There's a shop in Kidderminster that sells guns and CB radios. If you're a survivalist (as I guess you must be if you find yourself in Kidderminster) it's got everything you need. It's opposite the station too, so there's easy access to Smethwick Galton Bridge if you need it.
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There were still two gun shops/makers in the Gun Quarter last time I walked round.
Most of my male relatives through my maternal grandmother worked in the gun trade, obvs around the GQ, around Weaman St
My gt gt grandfather did a couple of spells in prison shortly before World War One due to his apparent inability to stop pilfering and selling gun parts from the companies he worked for.