Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Ads on March 03, 2023, 10:35:22 AM
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Filling in a document for somebody at work and I've had to pop the date down and it's dawned on me that it's been 20 years since probably the worst night our club has had at Villa Park for a multitude of reasons. The result, the opposition, that it was broadcast, the awful red cards, the errors, the violence and the general evil atmosphere that appeared to saturate everything.
Perhaps those older than me remember worse, Rangers friendly for example. But there was something about that night that brought is down to their level in every sense and there can be no bigger indictment than that.
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C*** night
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I thought there was something about the date when I saw 03 03.
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Filling in a document for somebody at work and I've had to pop the date down and it's dawned on me that it's been 20 years since probably the worst night our club has had at Villa Park for a multitude of reasons. The result, the opposition, that it was broadcast, the awful red cards, the errors, the violence and the general evil atmosphere that appeared to saturate everything.
Perhaps those older than me remember worse, Rangers friendly for example. But there was something about that night that brought is down to their level in every sense and there can be no bigger indictment than that.
All true, but I can't help thinking it was also the night many of them that had believed their own myths over the years got to the 'finding out' part of their 'fucking about'.
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One of the only times I've left Villa Park early (just after Gudjonsson got sent off) because it wasn't going to be worth the hassle at full time.
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One of the only times I've left Villa Park early (just after Gudjonsson got sent off) because it wasn't going to be worth the hassle at full time.
I was with my now wife who used to some with us quite a bit, home and away, and it's the only time I've left a game early because I was worried for her.
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I never forget the date because it’s my middle son’s birthday. We’d been for something to eat with his Nan and grandad before heading off to the match in great spirits in complete contrast to the way we were after the game. Easily the worst time we’ve had in all the years since they first started coming to games with me.
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One of the only times I've left Villa Park early (just after Gudjonsson got sent off) because it wasn't going to be worth the hassle at full time.
Me too. And everyone who glorifies Dublin getting sent off should think on - that's what cost us the match. As Ads said, we sank to their level.
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Those early games in the Premier league made me fully appreciate the later ones.
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Those early games in the Premier league made me fully appreciate the later ones.
The 5-1 win in 2007 was the icing on an incredible few days of fun debauchery for me
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One of the only times I've left Villa Park early (just after Gudjonsson got sent off) because it wasn't going to be worth the hassle at full time.
Me too. And everyone who glorifies Dublin getting sent off should think on - that's what cost us the match. As Ads said, we sank to their level.
It wasn't even a particularly good chinning.
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No, if you're going to drop the nut at least hit his nose and spill some bloody claret.
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One of the only times I've left Villa Park early (just after Gudjonsson got sent off) because it wasn't going to be worth the hassle at full time.
Me too. And everyone who glorifies Dublin getting sent off should think on - that's what cost us the match. As Ads said, we sank to their level.
It wasn't even a particularly good chinning.
It's a particular regret of his that he didn't connect properly. I agree though that had he kept his cool we could've got back into the game.
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This night makes a handy measure for those who want to know the difference between ourselves and the Rags. We hated it, they would cherish it.
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Filling in a document for somebody at work and I've had to pop the date down and it's dawned on me that it's been 20 years since probably the worst night our club has had at Villa Park for a multitude of reasons. The result, the opposition, that it was broadcast, the awful red cards, the errors, the violence and the general evil atmosphere that appeared to saturate everything.
Perhaps those older than me remember worse, Rangers friendly for example. But there was something about that night that brought is down to their level in every sense and there can be no bigger indictment than that.
All true, but I can't help thinking it was also the night many of them that had believed their own myths over the years got to the 'finding out' part of their 'fucking about'.
Yes I agree Lee. I think it was a double edged sword of those on their side believing all the nonsense (upper Witton Lane man certainly finding out the hard way) and our side wanting to disprove it.
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One of the only times I've left Villa Park early (just after Gudjonsson got sent off) because it wasn't going to be worth the hassle at full time.
Me too. And everyone who glorifies Dublin getting sent off should think on - that's what cost us the match. As Ads said, we sank to their level.
It wasn't even a particularly good chinning.
It's a particular regret of his that he didn't connect properly. I agree though that had he kept his cool we could've got back into the game.
It was 0-0 at the time. Gudjohnsson was sent off at 2 nil I think.
Can always remember walking under Witton station on way to game and at same time 100s of theirs came down the platform signing you know what at the top of the voices. Police directed them away from Witton Island and according to a mate at school the next day in the depressing aftermath they all got bottled at the away end.
Feels ridiculous now the VP game was put at 8pm after all the chaos of the first match, did WMP just think it would be easier to control with Villa Park's location? Big error of judgement.
Can also remember reading Brian Green's piece in the next issue of H&V describing a person spark out on the grass leading to Aston Hall after the game.
Thankfully things got under control and we eventually showed our class on the pitch a few years later.
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Hideous games and thank christ there's very little chance of us playing them again for the foreseeable. If they could kindly get relegated this year to lessen the chances even more, so much the better.
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A Tesco-bag supporter mate of mine from the Wood was born on the 3rd March. I was tempted to send him a Happy ****** Night! on FB but 1) He would be nonplussed and 2) He's a great lad.
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I was there and I remember seeing at least two blues fans being bounced down the steps in the upper tier. How they didn't go over the edge I'll never know. Horrible night.
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I hated that game. Attacked at New Street after by their mob.
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Thankfully I wasn't there that night. Was the violence random/spontaneous, or was it more of the Danny Dyer 'pwopah nawty' variety?
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Thankfully I wasn't there that night. Was the violence random/spontaneous, or was it more of the Danny Dyer 'pwopah nawty' variety?
It was arranged, spontaneous, targeted, random, intense and brutal. I wasn't at the Rangers game but it was by far the worst I've ever known.
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Thankfully I wasn't there that night. Was the violence random/spontaneous, or was it more of the Danny Dyer 'pwopah nawty' variety?
It was arranged, spontaneous, targeted, random, intense and brutal. I wasn't at the Rangers game but it was by far the worst I've ever known.
And it was mostly perpetrated by 'us'?
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One of the only times I've left Villa Park early (just after Gudjonsson got sent off) because it wasn't going to be worth the hassle at full time.
Me too. And everyone who glorifies Dublin getting sent off should think on - that's what cost us the match. As Ads said, we sank to their level.
First game I left early also, it was a poisonous atmosphere stoked by their owners and sky.
I remember walking through the riot police in a line across the road by the church, and thought am I in the 80s again.
Remember seeing one bluenose being kicked from the top of Witton lane upper to the bottom.
Bad bad night
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Filling in a document for somebody at work and I've had to pop the date down and it's dawned on me that it's been 20 years since probably the worst night our club has had at Villa Park for a multitude of reasons. The result, the opposition, that it was broadcast, the awful red cards, the errors, the violence and the general evil atmosphere that appeared to saturate everything.
Perhaps those older than me remember worse, Rangers friendly for example. But there was something about that night that brought is down to their level in every sense and there can be no bigger indictment than that.
All true, but I can't help thinking it was also the night many of them that had believed their own myths over the years got to the 'finding out' part of their 'fucking about'.
Yes I agree Lee. I think it was a double edged sword of those on their side believing all the nonsense (upper Witton Lane man certainly finding out the hard way) and our side wanting to disprove it.
I had a bizarre incident a few months before which underlined their state of mind at that point. Was drinking in Poppy Red on a Sunday afternoon after football and was minding my own business having a piss in the urinal with one other bloke in there. He started singing SOTV and I laughed and said 'no mate, I'm Villa', so he started to try and kick me while we were both stood there pissing. I grabbed him and threw him up the wall and was about to leather him when his mate came in and diffused the situation, I think my cock was still hanging out at the time.
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Filling in a document for somebody at work and I've had to pop the date down and it's dawned on me that it's been 20 years since probably the worst night our club has had at Villa Park for a multitude of reasons. The result, the opposition, that it was broadcast, the awful red cards, the errors, the violence and the general evil atmosphere that appeared to saturate everything.
Perhaps those older than me remember worse, Rangers friendly for example. But there was something about that night that brought is down to their level in every sense and there can be no bigger indictment than that.
All true, but I can't help thinking it was also the night many of them that had believed their own myths over the years got to the 'finding out' part of their 'fucking about'.
Yes I agree Lee. I think it was a double edged sword of those on their side believing all the nonsense (upper Witton Lane man certainly finding out the hard way) and our side wanting to disprove it.
I had a bizarre incident a few months before which underlined their state of mind at that point. Was drinking in Poppy Red on a Sunday afternoon after football and was minding my own business having a piss in the urinal with one other bloke in there. He started singing SOTV and I laughed and said 'no mate, I'm Villa', so he started to try and kick me while we were both stood there pissing. I grabbed him and threw him up the wall and was about to leather him when his mate came in and diffused the situation, I think my cock was still hanging out at the time.
Is that what your excuse was? 😉
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I wasn't at the 03 game, but went the year after and that was extremely tetchy as well, the game where Stern John equalised. I've never seen so many police dogs before or since. Three crap years against them, with no wins, two draws and four defeats. Thankfully the universe has righted those wrongs in no small measure since.
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Thankfully I wasn't there that night. Was the violence random/spontaneous, or was it more of the Danny Dyer 'pwopah nawty' variety?
It was arranged, spontaneous, targeted, random, intense and brutal. I wasn't at the Rangers game but it was by far the worst I've ever known.
I was at the Rangers game and it was certainly frightening.
It was the shear number of Rangers fans, my guess would have been around 15k, but at least you knew they were in the ground.
From what I’ve heard and read, though, this game was equally as bad, if not worse, as they’d have had gangs milling about outside and various other places lying in wait.
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I wasn't at the 03 game, but went the year after and that was extremely tetchy as well, the game where Stern John equalised. I've never seen so many police dogs before or since. Three crap years against them, with no wins, two draws and four defeats. Thankfully the universe has righted those wrongs in no small measure since.
That Stern John game was awful. Was living on Kos at the time and couldn't bear to watch the last couple of minutes so went to the toilet, leaving my girlfriend at the bar to carry on watching.
I came out of the toilet when I thought it was safe, and her face told me everything I didn't want to know.
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I wasn't at the 03 game, but went the year after and that was extremely tetchy as well, the game where Stern John equalised. I've never seen so many police dogs before or since. Three crap years against them, with no wins, two draws and four defeats. Thankfully the universe has righted those wrongs in no small measure since.
That Stern John game was awful. Was living on Kos at the time and couldn't bear to watch the last couple of minutes so went to the toilet, leaving my girlfriend at the bar to carry on watching.
I came out of the toilet when I thought it was safe, and her face told me everything I didn't want to know.
I was sat next to somebody who turned out to be a Nose in the Holte End. We'd exchanged a couple of words during the game, nothing much, then when Stern John equalised he wasn't bright enough to contain his excitement. He tried to give an old chap a slap, then got a proper good shoeing himself on his way out.
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No, if you're going to drop the nut at least hit his nose and spill some bloody claret.
...and leave him feeling blue?
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A Tesco-bag supporter mate of mine from the Wood was born on the 3rd March. I was tempted to send him a Happy ****** Night! on FB but 1) He would be nonplussed and 2) He's a great lad.
My son’s birthday today - an easy one for me to remember. Also, the 1983 game (Blake butting McMahon, “Brum’s day of shame” - according to the mail) was on my birthday. Unusually, I watched both games from the Trinity.
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I wasn't at the 03 game, but went the year after and that was extremely tetchy as well, the game where Stern John equalised. I've never seen so many police dogs before or since. Three crap years against them, with no wins, two draws and four defeats. Thankfully the universe has righted those wrongs in no small measure since.
That Stern John game was awful. Was living on Kos at the time and couldn't bear to watch the last couple of minutes so went to the toilet, leaving my girlfriend at the bar to carry on watching.
I came out of the toilet when I thought it was safe, and her face told me everything I didn't want to know.
I was sat next to somebody who turned out to be a Nose in the Holte End. We'd exchanged a couple of words during the game, nothing much, then when Stern John equalised he wasn't bright enough to contain his excitement. He tried to give an old chap a slap, then got a proper good shoeing himself on his way out.
Sounds absolutely dreadful, mate.
I absolutely love beating those bastards.
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I wasn't at the 03 game, but went the year after and that was extremely tetchy as well, the game where Stern John equalised. I've never seen so many police dogs before or since. Three crap years against them, with no wins, two draws and four defeats. Thankfully the universe has righted those wrongs in no small measure since.
I remember that match the year after too, and recall the sheer numbers of police dogs really vividly - basically from the Leisure Centre car park to the ground it was an unbroken line of coppers with dogs.
I've genuinely never seen so many police at a football match since then.
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Thankfully I wasn't there that night. Was the violence random/spontaneous, or was it more of the Danny Dyer 'pwopah nawty' variety?
It was arranged, spontaneous, targeted, random, intense and brutal. I wasn't at the Rangers game but it was by far the worst I've ever known.
And it was mostly perpetrated by 'us'?
A lot of it, yes. Blues fans had started to believe their own publicity, that all Villa fans would cower when confronted by their might. Quite a number had tickets in home stands and basically took the piss and were shocked that there were people who would react badly. That’s not to justify anything but rather to give it some context. It culminated, if that’s the right word, with about 30-40 Villa fans running from the Holte down in front of the Witton Lane to get at them.
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I wasn't at the 03 game, but went the year after and that was extremely tetchy as well, the game where Stern John equalised. I've never seen so many police dogs before or since. Three crap years against them, with no wins, two draws and four defeats. Thankfully the universe has righted those wrongs in no small measure since.
I remember that match the year after too, and recall the sheer numbers of police dogs really vividly - basically from the Leisure Centre car park to the ground it was an unbroken line of coppers with dogs.
I've genuinely never seen so many police at a football match since then.
Was that the awful Sorensen mistake game?
I was in the Lower Holte for that, depressed, watching Heskey, David Dunn and Damien fucking Johnson run us ragged.
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I wasn't at the 03 game, but went the year after and that was extremely tetchy as well, the game where Stern John equalised. I've never seen so many police dogs before or since. Three crap years against them, with no wins, two draws and four defeats. Thankfully the universe has righted those wrongs in no small measure since.
I remember that match the year after too, and recall the sheer numbers of police dogs really vividly - basically from the Leisure Centre car park to the ground it was an unbroken line of coppers with dogs.
I've genuinely never seen so many police at a football match since then.
Was that the awful Sorensen mistake game?
I was in the Lower Holte for that, depressed, watching Heskey, David Dunn and Damien fucking Johnson run us ragged.
No, that one was on my fucking birthday
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I wasn't at the 03 game, but went the year after and that was extremely tetchy as well, the game where Stern John equalised. I've never seen so many police dogs before or since. Three crap years against them, with no wins, two draws and four defeats. Thankfully the universe has righted those wrongs in no small measure since.
I remember that match the year after too, and recall the sheer numbers of police dogs really vividly - basically from the Leisure Centre car park to the ground it was an unbroken line of coppers with dogs.
I've genuinely never seen so many police at a football match since then.
The grassy hill between Trinty Road and Aston Hall must have had hundreds of them. About every 6 foot there was a copper with a vicious looking dog. Horrible atmosphere.
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Wasn’t there 20 years ago but I agree a horrible night all round even with a lot of their crew getting a reality check.
I was at the 1968 game when the Doc was in charge. I was only a kid and it frightened the shit our of me outside the ground and inside where I was stood on the Holte.
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a horrible night, against a horrible club, with a horrible performance and a horrible result to boot...
UTV
The Doc
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One of the only times I've left Villa Park early (just after Gudjonsson got sent off) because it wasn't going to be worth the hassle at full time.
I was with my now wife who used to some with us quite a bit, home and away, and it's the only time I've left a game early because I was worried for her.
Good for you mate. I mean, you could've stayed with her and backed her up, but if you felt you had to get away, you had to get away. And I'm sure she was fine in the end anyway. Did you wait outside for her? Wink.
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One of the only times I've left Villa Park early (just after Gudjonsson got sent off) because it wasn't going to be worth the hassle at full time.
I was with my now wife who used to some with us quite a bit, home and away, and it's the only time I've left a game early because I was worried for her.
Good for you mate. I mean, you could've stayed with her and backed her up, but if you felt you had to get away, you had to get away. And I'm sure she was fine in the end anyway. Did you wait outside for her? Wink.
No, I meant I left with her.
Because I know I'm faster and then I've only got to outrun her.
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I flew back from Germany to watch it. Not one of my better decisions.
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I wasn't there on 030303 as i'd bust my ankle egg-chasing the saturday before. Me and the fart watched the match at the Pip club, Fazeley and the fart, being an ex-referee was doing his nut about the Enkleman goal not being a goal. A couple of noses took exception to him and started threatening us. Me being in plaster and on crutches was of no use whatsoever so we had to leave. Typical fucking knuckledraggers, picking on an old man and a cripple >:(
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A vile night with a toxic atmosphere. People of all ages quite literally frothing at the mouth in anger all around us in the Holte. The fun and games then spilled onto here after the game with the C-bomb gate. The world turned crazy for 24 hours! Was less intimidating getting into the Atletico Madrid ground through the truncheon happy coppers.
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A vile night with a toxic atmosphere. People of all ages quite literally frothing at the mouth in anger all around us in the Holte. The fun and games then spilled onto here after the game with the C-bomb gate. The world turned crazy for 24 hours! Was less intimidating getting into the Atletico Madrid ground through the truncheon happy coppers.
I was at that game as well, thankfully only looking on rather than getting battered
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Amazingly, we got through unscathed. People in front and behind were not so lucky.
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I wasn't at the 03 game, but went the year after and that was extremely tetchy as well, the game where Stern John equalised. I've never seen so many police dogs before or since. Three crap years against them, with no wins, two draws and four defeats. Thankfully the universe has righted those wrongs in no small measure since.
That Stern John game was awful. Was living on Kos at the time and couldn't bear to watch the last couple of minutes so went to the toilet, leaving my girlfriend at the bar to carry on watching.
I came out of the toilet when I thought it was safe, and her face told me everything I didn't want to know.
I was at home, following on bloody Ceefax of all things. I remember just staring, waiting for nothing but that 'FT' to appear. When it did, I started jumping about and it took me a good 5 seconds to realise that, along with the addition of FT, the score had changed.
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Nevermind the Dublin sending off (which was bollocks, as he was squaring up to that blond tart and didn't expect the theatrics) there was a sinister, malevolent atmosphere in the ground right from the start. Haven't experienced that before or since.
That's why I don't want us sharing the same league as the Rags any time soon.
Win those games (hammer them, even) = it's expected.
Lose = we never hear the end of it. With the outside chance of scenes like above.
The upside of beating them doesn't offset all the other bollocks.
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Thankfully I wasn't there that night. Was the violence random/spontaneous, or was it more of the Danny Dyer 'pwopah nawty' variety?
It was arranged, spontaneous, targeted, random, intense and brutal. I wasn't at the Rangers game but it was by far the worst I've ever known.
And to think the afternoon had been so pleasant, meeting some wonderful people off here at Villa Park, followed by a couple of swift pints in a hidden back street boozer in Handsworth (?). We'd been living in a bubble all day. On return to Villa Park you could immediately sense the atmosphere was on another level and was about to go up a few more notches to 'Pure Evil' inside.
In all my years following Villa, home and away, I've never seen an atmosphere like Villa Park that night. It wasn't just a few baying for blood, it was everybody. Neither was it pretend anger, it was very real. Others have mentioned what went on inside the ground but my memory will never forget leaving the Holte at full time and turning into Witton Lane where the police had closed the it, putting themselves in between to stop the Villa fans. Even they could not have planned for what followed, rain after rain of bricks, bottles and whatever the Villa fans could get their hands on. Then there was the charging at the police lines. Normally the police know exactly what they're doing and are trained to deal and defuse the situation, taking back control. Not on this night though they did manage to hold their line which was some achievement.
With Witton Lane closed I had to walk around the ground to get to Witton station bridge where I'd arranged to meet my Dad and his mate. The look of relief on their faces when I turned up said it all, followed by 'let's get out of here'. On the walk to the car and the drive home not a word was said. It really was a night to forget for so many reasons.
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My mate shut my hand in the door of the car when we got back to it as well, the prick
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I wasn't at the 03 game, but went the year after and that was extremely tetchy as well, the game where Stern John equalised. I've never seen so many police dogs before or since. Three crap years against them, with no wins, two draws and four defeats. Thankfully the universe has righted those wrongs in no small measure since.
This is me. I missed the 03 game and watched in misery in the pub for reasons i can’t remember. The 04 game was on a Sunday if i remember and i was severely hungover after celebrating my 30th the night before. Was still queuing to get in when i heard the roar for Graysons early goal, went down a bit early for a half time hair of the dog and missed Hitzelbergers piledriver, saw both of their bloody goals though!
I really hate games against the noses, just had all sorts of horrible experiences as a kid in particular. The worst was going to a pre season friendly at their gaff for Ian Handysides testimonial, i was about 12 and David Seaman was still in goal for them, it was summer and i had a Villa tracksuit on, stupid in hindsight, the lads i went with were about 14-16. After the game we were cornered by a load of them, i legged it away but my mates were battered. Ill never forget being 12 and trying to find my way back from their gaff to Hockley on my own and getting to town and noses waiting at bus stops spitting at me, happy days.
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Grayson? Vassell opened the scoring after 21 mins.
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Grayson scored an early goal against WBA in the Cup, but it was a few years earlier.
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Grayson? Vassell opened the scoring after 21 mins.
Well there you go, i wasn’t in the ground and was still scoobied from the night before and all these years i thought i missed a Grayson goal, random.
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As Luke says, Grayson scored early (4 mins) in the 4-0 FA Cup win over Albion in 1998. Maybe you are thinking of that?
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As Luke says, Grayson scored early (4 mins) in the 4-0 FA Cup win over Albion in 1998. Maybe you are thinking of that?
Maybe but i was at that game, Collymore got a couple if i remember, no matter, i saw Stern bloody John get the equaliser.
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I took my then six year old nephew and we left around the same time as Joey Gudjohnsson. I genuinely didn't believe it was going to be as awful as it turned out to be. I particularly remember my dad dropping us on the Lichfield Road before the game where he'd normally leave us up by King Edwards School but I thought it might be too dark going through the park and suggested there instead and recall how the malevolent atmosphere was something you could physically feel.
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Tickets in the home end were too easy to get for away fans. My nephew and I had ST's in the Holte and I was able to get my dad (Villa) and my uncle (Blues) two tickets in the Holte End. Anyway, they were both pretty old school, both in their 60's then, and left at some point when it really started kicking off when we were 0-2 down.
Towards the back of the Holte, where my nephew and I were, I'm certain the couple behind me were noses, or at least the woman was, and were keeping quiet except to have a laugh here and there (no banter though - not on that night - it was strictly non-football related stuff) and as we watched that fella being booted down the stairs in the upper Witton, she announced she was leaving before she had her head kicked in. Mental night, quiet journey home in the car, nose uncle didn't even take the piss, think he was as stunned as everyone else.
I was a hod carrier at the time and my gaffer was a nose as well as half the site (we were working on the Dickens Heath development) also a couple of stripeys in the mix. The following day at work was a gigantic piss take, which you just have to take really, apart from a Chelsea fan who I threw half a batten at, the cheeky ******.
Fake edit - just remembered my girlfriend at the time was also a nose.
Happy fucking days.
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On that night my route back to my car, was probably the only area of the ground, where there was no trouble, I only found out how bad it was, when my nephew, phoned me the following night.
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One of the only times I've left Villa Park early (just after Gudjonsson got sent off) because it wasn't going to be worth the hassle at full time.
Me too. And everyone who glorifies Dublin getting sent off should think on - that's what cost us the match. As Ads said, we sank to their level.
This. Savage was a well known wind up merchant, but what Dublin did that night was unforgivable. He'd have spent a night in Winson Green if he'd done that anywhere else
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its quite strange as there is a thread on their crappy sight at the moment on about the very night and to read it you would have thought they took over VP .. .in every stand and in big numbers you know !! well from my memory every one of them had to keep there traps shut or they would have got battered .. a nose mate of mine was in the upper north and he is a big lad and he said he never seen villa fans like that b4 and felt intimidated , they are so full of shit !!!
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its quite strange as there is a thread on their crappy sight at the moment on about the very night and to read it you would have thought they took over VP .. .in every stand and in big numbers you know !! well from my memory every one of them had to keep there traps shut or they would have got battered .. a nose mate of mine was in the upper north and he is a big lad and he said he never seen villa fans like that b4 and felt intimidated , they are so full of shit !!!
I think a lot of them were kids at the time looking at the thread.
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Good friend was Birmingham and was at the match and said it was the only time that he was actually scared for his life at a match. Also remember how a person behind me f -ing and blinding aggressively, turned round and it was a young female, also after the game going towards Aston,we seen a police officer with his dog, the funny thing about it was that the dog was a Rottweiler puppy going mad, not in the aggressive sense but like a puppy down the park who just wanted to play,he was swinging around on the leash,
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one reckons 5/600 in the trinity ffs they dont get that many in their stands
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its quite strange as there is a thread on their crappy sight at the moment on about the very night and to read it you would have thought they took over VP .. .in every stand and in big numbers you know !! well from my memory every one of them had to keep there traps shut or they would have got battered .. a nose mate of mine was in the upper north and he is a big lad and he said he never seen villa fans like that b4 and felt intimidated , they are so full of shit !!!
the impression before the game was that they were coming in vast numbers and were going to take Villa Park and even ordinary fans weren't going to let that happen obviously they never seen the film Zulu
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I didn't go to this one but have been to every home derby since, which have all been at 12 on Sunday. It's got to the point where the security operation is such that you don't even see the away fans apart from in the ground. I have reflected on this and thought how ludicrous it is but I suppose if the alternative is violence and bedlam then it's probably better.
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one reckons 5/600 in the trinity ffs they dont get that many in their stands
they must have been related to the invisible man because I never seen them, the only one I seen was the one in the boxes between the Holte and trinity stand giving it the big un
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I wasn't at the 03 game, but went the year after and that was extremely tetchy as well, the game where Stern John equalised. I've never seen so many police dogs before or since. Three crap years against them, with no wins, two draws and four defeats. Thankfully the universe has righted those wrongs in no small measure since.
This is me. I missed the 03 game and watched in misery in the pub for reasons i can’t remember. The 04 game was on a Sunday if i remember and i was severely hungover after celebrating my 30th the night before. Was still queuing to get in when i heard the roar for Graysons early goal, went down a bit early for a half time hair of the dog and missed Hitzelbergers piledriver, saw both of their bloody goals though!
I really hate games against the noses, just had all sorts of horrible experiences as a kid in particular. The worst was going to a pre season friendly at their gaff for Ian Handysides testimonial, i was about 12 and David Seaman was still in goal for them, it was summer and i had a Villa tracksuit on, stupid in hindsight, the lads i went with were about 14-16. After the game we were cornered by a load of them, i legged it away but my mates were battered. Ill never forget being 12 and trying to find my way back from their gaff to Hockley on my own and getting to town and noses waiting at bus stops spitting at me, happy days.
We were on the way to play them at Villa Park and when we were going through the walk way by the Shakespeare's pub, they clock us and started to come at us, we weren't into violence then and started to run, a older lad with us shouts don't run and we stopped and turned and they stopped dead in there tracks, a lesson learned and still see that lad today down the match, it's always been in there DNA to cop away fans on there own when they outnumber them and claim a result,
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I didn't go to this one but have been to every home derby since, which have all been at 12 on Sunday. It's got to the point where the security operation is such that you don't even see the away fans apart from in the ground. I have reflected on this and thought how ludicrous it is but I suppose if the alternative is violence and bedlam then it's probably better.
As much as people should control themselves, I don't think Sky really knew what they were letting themselves in for.
With that said, pornodwarf, mr tumnus and karen really whipped up the whole working class team of Birmingham about blues going into this game for a good while beforehand. Of course the noses needed something like that - some sort of David slaying Goliath mythology. Served them well for a few years I guess.
I remember around the time me, a hoddy then, still in my work clobber, being told by a nose in the pub who was wearing a suit and drove a Merc that they were the working class team of Brum. And he meant it! This upside-down thinking has permeated their fanbase ever since.
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I remember around the time me, a hoddy then, still in my work clobber, being told by a bloke in the pub who was wearing a suit and drove a Merc that they were the working class team of Brum. And he meant it! This upside-down thinking has permeated their fanbase ever since.
He was probably just back from a court hearing.
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I remember around the time me, a hoddy then, still in my work clobber, being told by a bloke in the pub who was wearing a suit and drove a Merc that they were the working class team of Brum. And he meant it! This upside-down thinking has permeated their fanbase ever since.
He was probably just back from a court hearing.
Hahaha. It was crazy though, being told by a dude with money coming out of his ears, that me, wearing trackie bottoms and old Villa top, covered in building site detritus, represented the out of town Range Rover middle class. It was deeply fucking weird.
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Proper Brummies, innit?
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I remember around the time me, a hoddy then, still in my work clobber, being told by a bloke in the pub who was wearing a suit and drove a Merc that they were the working class team of Brum. And he meant it! This upside-down thinking has permeated their fanbase ever since.
He was probably just back from a court hearing.
Hahaha. It was crazy though, being told by a dude with money coming out of his ears, that me, wearing trackie bottoms and old Villa top, covered in building site detritus, represented the out of town Range Rover middle class. It was deeply fucking weird.
Merc was probably stolen and he had just robbed a bank, more likely a food bank thinking about it
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On a brighter note, on this day in 1979 we beat them 1-0 with a goal from Sid, my first Villa game.
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I was there and I remember seeing at least two blues fans being bounced down the steps in the upper tier. How they didn't go over the edge I'll never know. Horrible night.
There were loads in the North Stand upper that night. It was a real problem around that time with more lax ticketing arrangements so for games against teams like Newcastle and Everton whole rows used to celebrate if they scored at VP. 03/03/03 wasn't quite like that but was amazed to see little pockets of them celebrating openly after the first went in and they were quickly told to do one a few seconds later.
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Filling in a document for somebody at work and I've had to pop the date down and it's dawned on me that it's been 20 years since probably the worst night our club has had at Villa Park for a multitude of reasons. The result, the opposition, that it was broadcast, the awful red cards, the errors, the violence and the general evil atmosphere that appeared to saturate everything.
Perhaps those older than me remember worse, Rangers friendly for example. But there was something about that night that brought is down to their level in every sense and there can be no bigger indictment than that.
All true, but I can't help thinking it was also the night many of them that had believed their own myths over the years got to the 'finding out' part of their 'fucking about'.
Yes I agree Lee. I think it was a double edged sword of those on their side believing all the nonsense (upper Witton Lane man certainly finding out the hard way) and our side wanting to disprove it.
I had a bizarre incident a few months before which underlined their state of mind at that point. Was drinking in Poppy Red on a Sunday afternoon after football and was minding my own business having a piss in the urinal with one other bloke in there. He started singing SOTV and I laughed and said 'no mate, I'm Villa', so he started to try and kick me while we were both stood there pissing. I grabbed him and threw him up the wall and was about to leather him when his mate came in and diffused the situation, I think my cock was still hanging out at the time.
Be careful in those public toilets mate 😜
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I was there and I remember seeing at least two blues fans being bounced down the steps in the upper tier. How they didn't go over the edge I'll never know. Horrible night.
I remember that
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I was living in Rio at the time and had flown back for 2 days in the middle of Carnaval to see us avenge the 3-0 defeat. All I really remember of the game is sitting in the Upper Holte with about 10 mins to go thinking I could be in bed with a beautiful Brazilian morena instead of being there. Can't ever recall being more miserable at VP. I still wonder what the fuck I was thinking going back for it.
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If you read Small Heath Alliance for their version of events, you see exactly where the attitude comes from that caused so many of them to be attacked. The exaggeration and myth making all on show. If we manage to play them again at any point in the league before we all die of extreme old age, you might just get an 03/03 style night again as a result.
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Hateful evening in every way possible.
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For those of us not from Birmingham the rivalry really is something else and hard to comprehend. Is it certain areas, schools, industries etc that are traditionally Villa/Blues? How is it still so strong to this day
It's hard to believe now but the day Grealish got punched they were actually above us in the league ! Our team 20 years ago was rubbish looking back. Watching here on YouTube...pitch in absolute shite aswell. Dion Dublin abysmal lack of leadership. JLS at right back!
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If you read Small Heath Alliance for their version of events, you see exactly where the attitude comes from that caused so many of them to be attacked. The exaggeration and myth making all on show. If we manage to play them again at any point in the league before we all die of extreme old age, you might just get an 03/03 style night again as a result.
It's funny because despite their win, I've never heard them really go on about it in the time that has passed, I think largely because they knew they'd had their myths shattered.
They came on coaches from then on.
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For those of us not from Birmingham the rivalry really is something else and hard to comprehend. Is it certain areas, schools, industries etc that are traditionally Villa/Blues? How is it still so strong to this day
It's hard to believe now but the day Grealish got punched they were actually above us in the league ! Our team 20 years ago was rubbish looking back. Watching here on YouTube...pitch in absolute shite aswell. Dion Dublin abysmal lack of leadership. JLS at right back!
In my opinion at least, their mindset is that they exist in spite of Villa. As in these days they actually exist to spite Aston Villa Football Club. I don't know when this happened, but in my experience of living in the same city as them, that's the vibe I get. It's probably why so many brummie reds are from nose families.
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If you read Small Heath Alliance for their version of events, you see exactly where the attitude comes from that caused so many of them to be attacked. The exaggeration and myth making all on show. If we manage to play them again at any point in the league before we all die of extreme old age, you might just get an 03/03 style night again as a result.
It's funny because despite their win, I've never heard them really go on about it in the time that has passed, I think largely because they knew they'd had their myths shattered.
They came on coaches from then on.
That's true. And Villa didn't put coaches on for us to go to the sty. Not because, somehow, one set of Brummies are harder than the others, more like it wasn't seen as necessary.
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They had coaches that night as well. They always did. Then the one time we ran a couple, they went on about it for years. They tell lies. It's what they do.
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If you read Small Heath Alliance for their version of events, you see exactly where the attitude comes from that caused so many of them to be attacked. The exaggeration and myth making all on show. If we manage to play them again at any point in the league before we all die of extreme old age, you might just get an 03/03 style night again as a result.
It's funny because despite their win, I've never heard them really go on about it in the time that has passed, I think largely because they knew they'd had their myths shattered.
They came on coaches from then on.
That's true. And Villa didn't put coaches on for us to go to the sty. Not because, somehow, one set of Brummies are harder than the others, more like it wasn't seen as necessary.
What the point of getting a coach to St Andrews, when Jeeves can drop me directly from my stately home in the shires
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I was there that night. Nastiest atmosphere at a game I’ve ever been to and I was away a lot in the late 80s (missed the 70s and early 80s as I am too young).
There were a few Blues all around us in the Trinity, like someone else said maybe they believed their own hype but they got a day of reckoning that night. I’m not saying that in a proud or braggy way. I’m not a violent guy but I felt angry that night and others way more so.
I’m not a big believer in stuff like “they dragged us down to their level “. Humans are humans and tribal events can worryingly quickly lead to people scenting blood. It had been building up for a while and some pretty raw emotions spilled out.
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Fair to say that night they didn't quite grasp the feeling of villa fans towards them. For too long they believed their own hype about them and many had a shock that night.
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As I walked to the ground going past the church there was an atmosphere in the air. I had never felt that before at any match and I have never felt it since.
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It was absolutely horrible to watch. I'm glad I wasn't there. I remember almost as the final whistle went, a mate from uni who I hadn't spoke to for ages randomly rang and had no idea about the football, and I had to spend an hour pretending to be calm when all I wanted to do was go into the garden and heave paving slabs as far as I could.
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They're desperate to believe their own myths even when deep down they know it's a load of shite, they have to as they have nothing else. Take away the stuff about how they're all working class Brummies supporting a working class club and we're all scared of them and from the shires and are spawny, and what do they have left?
The reality of being a 3rd rate club that's in its 7th consecutive year of trying not to be relegated to division 3, a ground so shit parts of it have been closed for over a year, so badly supported that it being closed doesn't affect attendances, a training ground they don't own and can't train at, owners that seem to hate them, and yet another investigation and possible points deduction.
No wonder they cling desperately to trying to believe their own myths.
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It obviously didn't mark a turning point in our relative fortunes, but I don't think it got better than that season for them against us, even when they beat us on the way to their cup. Morally and sportingly, 2002-03 was beyond their wildest dreams as to how we each stood. Ironic, then, that while their high points were largely dependent on our terrible goalkeeping, we've now got the best goalkeeper in the world while they're probably as mired in the shit as they ever have been.
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It obviously didn't mark a turning point in our relative fortunes, but I don't think it got better than that season for them against us, even when they beat us on the way to their cup. Morally and sportingly, 2002-03 was beyond their wildest dreams as to how we each stood. Ironic, then, that while their high points were largely dependent on our terrible goalkeeping, we've now got the best goalkeeper in the world while they're probably as mired in the shit as they ever have been.
Seemed every goal of theirs was scuffed, shanked, deflected or a massive individual balls up.
From our side you've got Der Hammer, Cahill, Alan Hutton and the absolute pasting in the 5-1 that flattered them
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The Scottish Cafu's contribution is my favourite.
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I'm sure I've posted it before but the The Times summed it nicely before the St. Andrew's game that season.
The Footballot Bigmouth : The Birmingham rivalry is the most one-sided in England. Discuss
PREPARE TO BE SHOCKED. What may well be the most frightening night of your armchair football-watching career is just four short weeks away. At eight o’clock on Monday September 16, the first league derby between Birmingham City and Aston Villa for 15 years will kick off at St Andrew’s. It can be said with some certainty that the sometimes sanitised world of the Barclaycard Premiership will never have seen anything like it. Just listen for the hatred that will pour down on the Villa players like molten lava spewing from a volcano and cascading down a hillside. Just wait for the tumultuous noise that will greet a goal for the home team. And just prepare yourself for the celebrations that will ensue if — and God help Graham Taylor and the few thousand visiting fans if tthey do — Birmingham win.
Obviously, other cities and regions have intense rivalries. In Manchester, there’s United and City but, despite City’s return to the Premiership, they have inhabited different worlds for the past decade and, in any case, thousands of United fans would be incapable of finding the word “local” in a dictionary, much less explaining it.
Everton and Liverpool fans famously tell the world that they sit side by side at Merseyside derbies, doubtless sharing some sharp scally witticisms and discussing the latest release by The Coral. In the North East, passions undeniably run high, but even Newcastle United v Sunderland is missing the one precious ingredient that makes the Birmingham-Villa situation so combustible — pure, naked jealousy.
You see, United may have won a lot more trophies than City, but at least the FA Cup and championship — and a European trophy — have passed through Maine Road. Liverpool’s record is undoubtedly superior to Everton’s, but there have been periods in history when Goodison has been the home of the region’s best team. The same is true of Arsenal and Spurs, while Newcastle and Sunderland share a similar set of frustrations — those of huge clubs who can never quite live up to the expectations of their fans.
There is no such parity in Brum. If you are prepared to include the League Cup in its pre-Wembley, early 1960s incarnation, Birmingham City have won one trophy, while Villa have won 20. If you discount that tournament in its nascent form, the score is 19-0 to the Claret and Blues. Villa have done it all. A Villa committee man founded the Football League and the club was one of only three to be founder members of that august organisation and the FA Premier League. Villa have been European champions, seven times league champions and Villa Park is the only English club ground to host a European final. The old joke in the city is that Villa have had the FA Cup stolen more times than the Blues have won it. And Birmingham? Well, Trevor Francis used to play for them and Jasper Carrott is a fan and . . . er, that’s it.
So that’s why the blind hatred that many Sky Sports viewers will witness for the first time next month, is tainted by being the product of generations of being the second city’s second-class citizens. And my, how it pushes up the bile factor. If it doesn’t get an 18 certificate, someone at Sky will have blundered. Take a tip — send the kids to bed early.
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It obviously didn't mark a turning point in our relative fortunes, but I don't think it got better than that season for them against us, even when they beat us on the way to their cup. Morally and sportingly, 2002-03 was beyond their wildest dreams as to how we each stood. Ironic, then, that while their high points were largely dependent on our terrible goalkeeping, we've now got the best goalkeeper in the world while they're probably as mired in the shit as they ever have been.
Seemed every goal of theirs was scuffed, shanked, deflected or a massive individual balls up.
From our side you've got Der Hammer, Cahill, Alan Hutton and the absolute pasting in the 5-1 that flattered them
Even the 3-0 game should have been all about the glorious, 25 yard De La Cruz goal he pinged off the crossbar before...y'know. Their horrible goals and all that.
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It's difficult to say where we definitively gained the upper hand. Up until the 5-1 the games we won were close affairs, and then they became pretty dull and tense. The day they went down and the Holte was chanting about them was magic, but of course we soon joined them in the Championship. Grealish getting clonked feels like a moment, though. We got promoted, stopped up and have a future. They have no chance of catching us now.
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me my m8 and his son and grandson got back to new street quite late after the play off final win and sure enough as we walked out of the station all with our flags and bags etc we was confronted by a gang of about 10 of them ...prob all about late teens early twenties . from the shakespeare who proceeded to attack us , we managed to get a few digs in but shear numbers got us and luckily the rail police arrived ..and they dissapeared just as quick ....thats the big bad LULU,,,'s for you ,, total myth about them and with another couple of lads we would have showed them up absolute wankers and i doubt villa fans would do that
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i was working in Hinckley and had to leave early to get to the night shift at NG. As many of others have said the sense of violence was palpable and the easiest descrirtion I can think of is in the book The Fog by James Herbert, this malevolent feeling seemed to be all around the ground. As I was leaving the upper holte, a blues chancer was legging it down the stairs chased by a couple of villa, he managed to get to the mid landing of the stairs before slipping and was kicked down the rest, not a pretty sight.
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One of their favourite tricks was to wait at coach drop off points as we were on our way back from Wembley. By the Bar St Martin for the New Street drop offs was one. Never after 'lads', always normal fans they'd give it to.
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For those of us not from Birmingham the rivalry really is something else and hard to comprehend. Is it certain areas, schools, industries etc that are traditionally Villa/Blues? How is it still so strong to this day
It's hard to believe now but the day Grealish got punched they were actually above us in the league ! Our team 20 years ago was rubbish looking back. Watching here on YouTube...pitch in absolute shite aswell. Dion Dublin abysmal lack of leadership. JLS at right back!
Team was average for sure and we were in that period of crossing our fingers and hoping the youth would save us given Ridgewell and the Moore brothers were just starting to break through at that time, current Luton manager Rob Edwards also played a few games around then.
Funnily enough we actually won 10 home games at VP so it was one of our best home seasons in 20 years but it was the year West Ham went down with 42 points so in many seasons it would've been mid table mediocrity but we were always looking over our shoulders. Allback came from nowhere to score some important winners in the run in.
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I wasn't at the 03 game, but went the year after and that was extremely tetchy as well, the game where Stern John equalised. I've never seen so many police dogs before or since. Three crap years against them, with no wins, two draws and four defeats. Thankfully the universe has righted those wrongs in no small measure since.
This is me. I missed the 03 game and watched in misery in the pub for reasons i can’t remember. The 04 game was on a Sunday if i remember and i was severely hungover after celebrating my 30th the night before. Was still queuing to get in when i heard the roar for Graysons early goal, went down a bit early for a half time hair of the dog and missed Hitzelbergers piledriver, saw both of their bloody goals though!
I really hate games against the noses, just had all sorts of horrible experiences as a kid in particular. The worst was going to a pre season friendly at their gaff for Ian Handysides testimonial, i was about 12 and David Seaman was still in goal for them, it was summer and i had a Villa tracksuit on, stupid in hindsight, the lads i went with were about 14-16. After the game we were cornered by a load of them, i legged it away but my mates were battered. Ill never forget being 12 and trying to find my way back from their gaff to Hockley on my own and getting to town and noses waiting at bus stops spitting at me, happy days.
This story and 1,000s others of Villa fans being jumped across the city over the previous decades even though not even in the same league for a long time is exactly why the events of that night happened. It had been brewing for about 25 years of not been able to walk around Brum in a Villa shirt without being battered.
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When I was a kid, two of my best friends were fans of 'Blues', which I assumed played some kind of different discipline or something, and I thought it would be cool if I could support Blues as well - to be closer to my friends.
So I told my Mom that I wanted to be a Blues fan and she said, "but I thought you supported Villa?"
"Yeah, I'll still be Villa, but I like England in cricket. They never play against each other, so I can be both."
"Well it's up to you, but what happens if they play each other?"
"How?"
"Well Blues aren't really as good as Aston Villa, so they play in a different league, but you should never be mean to your friends about it, because one day Blues might be better than Villa. How would you feel then?"
So I decided I'd only support Villa, but I'd be nice to Blues fans, because some of them were my friends, and besides, they were better than Man Utd or Arsenal who used to beat Villa and the kids who supported them used to make fun of me each time they did.
I was 12 when SHA were promoted, and after our first game at the Sty, I realised for the first time that these Blues fans who I always tried to be nice to absolutely fucking hated Villa and Villa fans, and therefore me - and they most definitely were not going to be nice about it.
Every generation is different, but for me, the only reason I have to dislike SHA is because of their rabid, visceral hatred of us.
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This fixture messed with my mind. I'd absolutely dread losing and although victories were enjoyable, they were more like relief than anything. I don't miss these games at all.
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Went with my brother on the Warwick coach. We were in Trinity Upper and there was probably 8 to 10 obvious noses around us. 4 stood together below us looking down & waving to their mates in the north terrace. They legged it at 0-2 and got pelters and scuffles. We eventually got to the coach by the Leisure Centre and then got bricked by Villa fans as we were leaving. Shit awful night. Still, never mind - fk ‘em. We’ve not got stretchy fabric covering the whole of Lower Witton Lane.
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This fixture messed with my mind. I'd absolutely dread losing and although victories were enjoyable, they were more like relief than anything. I don't miss these games at all.
Exactly the same.
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This fixture messed with my mind. I'd absolutely dread losing and although victories were enjoyable, they were more like relief than anything. I don't miss these games at all.
Completely agree. Took my son to a couple of the championship games, he was only 7 or 8 at the time, the 2-0 when Hot Lips scored a screamer and a dog awful 1-0 when fat Gabby came on a scored as his last stand. Even though we had the 12pm k/o and it was far more controlled, so felt safe to bring my youngster, they are just games to get through, horrible.
Where i grew up in Hockley it was mainly Villa but some blues, but i went to secondary school in Bearwood, so a lot of my oldest friends are baggies fans, so this feels a more important game and rivalry to me personally than blues. Although there is some trouble at games against the baggies, it has been no where near the same level over the years.
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Worth mentioning that the season this game happened is the only time in 48 (about to be 49 given they're not coming up and we're not going down) seasons they finished above us.
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Thankfully I'd moved up to Scotland at this point and so had pretty much stopped going to watch the Villa for 5 or 6 years (instead going to watch mostly Hibs and occasionally Hearts). I'd known it'd been bad from the newspaper reports, but not in the level described here. Bloody hell.
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I think our players were shocked at the hostility they witnessed at the Sty & were pumped up by the time of the return game. Walking up to the ground there was an atmosphere I'd never sensed before or since. For big games you get they feeling of anticipation but this was different.
I haven't set foot inside the Sty since Garry Thompson scored 2. I can't imagine what it's been like to be there as a Villa fan.
Following Dr X they all wanted & celebrated our impending collapse. The Grealish slap is a sliding door event that's separated us for at least the next generation. We've not looked back, whilst they hang around like a bad odour.
Fuck 'em, it is & always has been pure & simple envy.
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Worth mentioning that the season this game happened is the only time in 48 (about to be 49 given they're not coming up and we're not going down) seasons they finished above us.
It was a strange season. Sir Graham got all sorts of abuse from the start, mainly for taking the job and therefore selling out to help Ellis. He inherited a snakepit with players virtually on strike and it seemed that every time we got a good result we followed it with a bad one.
Everything went against us - Vassell had a goal disallowed at 1-1 at the Sty, then towards the end of the season we were a goal up in stoppage time at Southampton, Ronnie Jonsen skied a clearance that could have gone anywhere but fell perfectly for Kevin Davies. It was a weird final table; another three goals (I think) and we'd have finished ninth.
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one reckons 5/600 in the trinity ffs they dont get that many in their stands
There was no way 5/600 in the Trinity that night. there were few noses scattered around, but were soon taken out by the stewards.
Pure evil that night. Even the Trinity were baying for blood.
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Worth mentioning that the season this game happened is the only time in 48 (about to be 49 given they're not coming up and we're not going down) seasons they finished above us.
It was a strange season. Sir Graham got all sorts of abuse from the start, mainly for taking the job and therefore selling out to help Ellis. He inherited a snakepit with players virtually on strike and it seemed that every time we got a good result we followed it with a bad one.
Everything went against us - Vassell had a goal disallowed at 1-1 at the Sty, then towards the end of the season we were a goal up in stoppage time at Southampton, Ronnie Jonsen skied a clearance that could have gone anywhere but fell perfectly for Kevin Davies. It was a weird final table; another three goals (I think) and we'd have finished ninth.
It was on odd season indeed. Only 7 points separated Boro in 11th and West Ham in 18th. The latter were relegated with 42 points, a total that no other relegated team has come close to achieving ever since, and one that kept us looking over our shoulder right to the end.
His season and a bit in charge was a disaster though unfortunately. Not all of his own making, as he'd inherited late Gregory era transfer mistakes like Kachloul, Hadji and Balaban, but then compounded it by signing the likes of Kinsella, Allback, UDLC and Leonhardsen. Some of that would have been due to Ellis's increasing inability to keep pace with the Premier League, but the season after under Mr Fickle we signed McCann, Sorensen, Solano and Laursen who all had a much more of a positive effect on the squad. Shame really, he should never have come back, something I reckon he might have agreed with, looking back.
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In the vile stakes they just can't help themselves. Last season coming back from a game we got to new St. My daughter was a few yards in front of me and as she got to the barriers there was a member of staff standing there probably in his late 30's. While she was putting her ticket in he said...fuckin villa cnut. When I got level with him I more or less stood toe to toe with him and looking him in the face I said...that's just about your level you bluenose nonce. Next time you have a day off go and buy yourself a backbone.
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Worth mentioning that the season this game happened is the only time in 48 (about to be 49 given they're not coming up and we're not going down) seasons they finished above us.
It was a strange season. Sir Graham got all sorts of abuse from the start, mainly for taking the job and therefore selling out to help Ellis. He inherited a snakepit with players virtually on strike and it seemed that every time we got a good result we followed it with a bad one.
Everything went against us - Vassell had a goal disallowed at 1-1 at the Sty, then towards the end of the season we were a goal up in stoppage time at Southampton, Ronnie Jonsen skied a clearance that could have gone anywhere but fell perfectly for Kevin Davies. It was a weird final table; another three goals (I think) and we'd have finished ninth.
It was on odd season indeed. Only 7 points separated Boro in 11th and West Ham in 18th. The latter were relegated with 42 points, a total that no other relegated team has come close to achieving ever since, and one that kept us looking over our shoulder right to the end.
His season and a bit in charge was a disaster though unfortunately. Not all of his own making, as he'd inherited late Gregory era transfer mistakes like Kachloul, Hadji and Balaban, but then compounded it by signing the likes of Kinsella, Allback, UDLC and Leonhardsen. Some of that would have been due to Ellis's increasing inability to keep pace with the Premier League, but the season after under Mr Fickle we signed McCann, Sorensen, Solano and Laursen who all had a much more of a positive effect on the squad. Shame really, he should never have come back, something I reckon he might have agreed with, looking back.
He didn't regret it - he said you regret what you wish you did but didn't rather than the other way round. The game had changed and his ideas were outdated, although that was more his morals than his tactics. He also inherited a club that had splits and factions everywhere. O'Leary inherited a happier place because most of the arses had gone and there was more money available.
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one reckons 5/600 in the trinity ffs they dont get that many in their stands
There was no way 5/600 in the Trinity that night. there were few noses scattered around, but were soon taken out by the stewards.
Pure evil that night. Even the Trinity were baying for blood.
There were 2 sat 10 rows behind me and when they wouldn’t move after some encouragement from those around them, a bloke in a Burberry Cap did a superman flying punch which put one down and the next thing was there was a melee around them, they were evicted having been on the receiving end of a lot of physical violence.
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one reckons 5/600 in the trinity ffs they dont get that many in their stands
There was no way 5/600 in the Trinity that night. there were few noses scattered around, but were soon taken out by the stewards.
Pure evil that night. Even the Trinity were baying for blood.
There were 2 sat 10 rows behind me and when they wouldn’t move after some encouragement from this around them, a bloke in a Burberry Cap did a superman flying punch which put one down and the next thing was there was a melee around them, they were evicted having been on the receiving end of a lot if physical violence.
I was in the Upper Trinity but near the front of the tier. I didn't see one of their filthy lot, but heard people around me talking about them being there.
My main memory of that night is of a Villa fan just punching the side of the stand repeatedly like he'd gone mad.
Awful
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It was quite violent that cup game away at West ham but the atmosphere was not as dark as the night in question.
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Worth mentioning that the season this game happened is the only time in 48 (about to be 49 given they're not coming up and we're not going down) seasons they finished above us.
It was a strange season. Sir Graham got all sorts of abuse from the start, mainly for taking the job and therefore selling out to help Ellis. He inherited a snakepit with players virtually on strike and it seemed that every time we got a good result we followed it with a bad one.
Everything went against us - Vassell had a goal disallowed at 1-1 at the Sty, then towards the end of the season we were a goal up in stoppage time at Southampton, Ronnie Jonsen skied a clearance that could have gone anywhere but fell perfectly for Kevin Davies. It was a weird final table; another three goals (I think) and we'd have finished ninth.
Wasn't it the year West Ham went down with I think 43 points?
Edit: Just seen Risso's post
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As this is Blose adjacent, if you love Bob Mortimer, Would I Lie To You? and are a Villa fan, you'll probably appreciate this:
https://mobile.twitter.com/LeModFootball/status/1631603367154790400
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Worth mentioning that the season this game happened is the only time in 48 (about to be 49 given they're not coming up and we're not going down) seasons they finished above us.
It was a strange season. Sir Graham got all sorts of abuse from the start, mainly for taking the job and therefore selling out to help Ellis. He inherited a snakepit with players virtually on strike and it seemed that every time we got a good result we followed it with a bad one.
Everything went against us - Vassell had a goal disallowed at 1-1 at the Sty, then towards the end of the season we were a goal up in stoppage time at Southampton, Ronnie Jonsen skied a clearance that could have gone anywhere but fell perfectly for Kevin Davies. It was a weird final table; another three goals (I think) and we'd have finished ninth.
It was on odd season indeed. Only 7 points separated Boro in 11th and West Ham in 18th. The latter were relegated with 42 points, a total that no other relegated team has come close to achieving ever since, and one that kept us looking over our shoulder right to the end.
His season and a bit in charge was a disaster though unfortunately. Not all of his own making, as he'd inherited late Gregory era transfer mistakes like Kachloul, Hadji and Balaban, but then compounded it by signing the likes of Kinsella, Allback, UDLC and Leonhardsen. Some of that would have been due to Ellis's increasing inability to keep pace with the Premier League, but the season after under Mr Fickle we signed McCann, Sorensen, Solano and Laursen who all had a much more of a positive effect on the squad. Shame really, he should never have come back, something I reckon he might have agreed with, looking back.
He didn't regret it - he said you regret what you wish you did but didn't rather than the other way round. The game had changed and his ideas were outdated, although that was more his morals than his tactics. He also inherited a club that had splits and factions everywhere. O'Leary inherited a happier place because most of the arses had gone and there was more money available.
It felt like an old side, even though there was plenty of youth available. Tired and stale.
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That night is possibly the main reason why I would be perfectly happy never to play them again and see them dropping to play Sunday league.
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I remember the atmosphere before and during the game but I must have erased the events after from my mind as I don’t remember seeing much.
As someone said earlier every game against them is a win win situation for them as they’re not expected to get a result and are under little pressure.
For some of the older generation I believe there’s more of a rivalry with The Albion, I can take or leave them but can’t stand the scummy Blues.
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Was blissfully unaware of this era as I was a 19 year old art student more interested in chasing a gorgeous fellow student and trying to stop the war in Iraq. I was unsuccessful in both enterprises but my uncle was at the match and described it as being pure liquid evil.
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Worth mentioning that the season this game happened is the only time in 48 (about to be 49 given they're not coming up and we're not going down) seasons they finished above us.
It was a strange season. Sir Graham got all sorts of abuse from the start, mainly for taking the job and therefore selling out to help Ellis. He inherited a snakepit with players virtually on strike and it seemed that every time we got a good result we followed it with a bad one.
Everything went against us - Vassell had a goal disallowed at 1-1 at the Sty, then towards the end of the season we were a goal up in stoppage time at Southampton, Ronnie Jonsen skied a clearance that could have gone anywhere but fell perfectly for Kevin Davies. It was a weird final table; another three goals (I think) and we'd have finished ninth.
It was on odd season indeed. Only 7 points separated Boro in 11th and West Ham in 18th. The latter were relegated with 42 points, a total that no other relegated team has come close to achieving ever since, and one that kept us looking over our shoulder right to the end.
His season and a bit in charge was a disaster though unfortunately. Not all of his own making, as he'd inherited late Gregory era transfer mistakes like Kachloul, Hadji and Balaban, but then compounded it by signing the likes of Kinsella, Allback, UDLC and Leonhardsen. Some of that would have been due to Ellis's increasing inability to keep pace with the Premier League, but the season after under Mr Fickle we signed McCann, Sorensen, Solano and Laursen who all had a much more of a positive effect on the squad. Shame really, he should never have come back, something I reckon he might have agreed with, looking back.
He didn't regret it - he said you regret what you wish you did but didn't rather than the other way round. The game had changed and his ideas were outdated, although that was more his morals than his tactics. He also inherited a club that had splits and factions everywhere. O'Leary inherited a happier place because most of the arses had gone and there was more money available.
It reminds me of when Howard Kendall went back to Everton and nearly relegated them in the late 90s.
Schmechiel was pretty scathing in his book but he'd left by then. I presume SGT and Angel didn't get on one little bit, just the one goal and sporadic games before he hit 20 + the next season under O'Leary.
It was actually an odd decision to get Dublin back into the team as he was getting phased out but he'd had a decent scoring season up to the red card, 9 prem goals and a fair few in the league cup. The next season he was playing for us at CB.
Problem in those days and Sir Graham said it himself at an AGM that "everyone was bored finishing 7th" so relegation battles weren't as regular as they have been since 2010 generally at this level.
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I was based in Warwick in the early 2000's and took a colleague to the game. He was a vey placid Tranmere Rovers fan. He spent ,most of the game mumbling "fcukin' hell; what did I let myself in for?!"
It was a surreal night and one which he often mentions when I speak to him. He has been to a couple of Villa games with me and is always impressed with the passion that Villa fans show - that night, he was just stunned by the pure vitriol shown throughout. We didn't experience any violence at close quarters but it was clear that sporadic outbreaks were occurring around the ground.
A bizarre evening. What more can I say?
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A dreadful night. Can't believe it is 20 years ago. It doesn't feel like 20 years.
I couldn't understand why SGT kept Angel on the fringes that whole season. Angel has 44 premier league goals for Villa. It probably would be 55+ had SGT used him that season.
And what was 'C**tgate'? Sounds intriguing!
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A dreadful night. Can't believe it is 20 years ago. It doesn't feel like 20 years.
I couldn't understand why SGT kept Angel on the fringes that whole season. Angel has 44 premier league goals for Villa. It probably would be 55+ had SGT used him that season.
And what was 'C**tgate'? Sounds intriguing!
Angel was injured.
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Before that season my only previous experience of them was the 2 legged League cup tie in 93/94. The games in 02/03 were just awful. They’ve never got any better as a fan base. They had a fan run on and assault Joe only a few years ago which resulted in some paltry fine. I could quite honestly say that I would be extremely happy if they folded or were decimated for financial irregularities. A horrible, horrible outfit in every regard.
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I think part of the problem was the vast span of time between league meetings. Kind of like knowing you live on a fault line.
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A dreadful night. Can't believe it is 20 years ago. It doesn't feel like 20 years.
I couldn't understand why SGT kept Angel on the fringes that whole season. Angel has 44 premier league goals for Villa. It probably would be 55+ had SGT used him that season.
And what was 'C**tgate'? Sounds intriguing!
Angel was injured.
Was he? I don't remember that. I just remember him not getting games. Mind, I was partying a lot at the time!
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one reckons 5/600 in the trinity ffs they dont get that many in their stands
There was no way 5/600 in the Trinity that night. there were few noses scattered around, but were soon taken out by the stewards.
Pure evil that night. Even the Trinity were baying for blood.
There were 2 sat 10 rows behind me and when they wouldn’t move after some encouragement from this around them, a bloke in a Burberry Cap did a superman flying punch which put one down and the next thing was there was a melee around them, they were evicted having been on the receiving end of a lot if physical violence.
I was in the Upper Trinity but near the front of the tier. I didn't see one of their filthy lot, but heard people around me talking about them being there.
Yeah same here, about 4 rows from the front. Didn’t actually see any trouble at this or any of the other home games against them up to 2010 but I agree that the atmosphere was absolutely evil for this one. Sweet old lady had a season ticket in front of us at the time, went with her daughter who must have been well into her 50s as well. Even those two looked vaguely demonic that night, spitting poison for the full 90 mins. I never really had an issue with them though, I only ever knew about 4 of theirs. All were pretty ok too albeit two of them were complete fucking liars.
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one reckons 5/600 in the trinity ffs they dont get that many in their stands
There was no way 5/600 in the Trinity that night. there were few noses scattered around, but were soon taken out by the stewards.
Pure evil that night. Even the Trinity were baying for blood.
They always bullsh*t their numbers
They took quite a few to Huddersfield. They was a photo and they filled half of the one end.
Someone asked how many?
One guy replied they had sold out their 1800 allocation and were given another 250(?) I don’t know the capacity of that end, but I’d guess that was probably right.
This other chap came back with ‘There was at least 3000’ 😂
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A dreadful night. Can't believe it is 20 years ago. It doesn't feel like 20 years.
I couldn't understand why SGT kept Angel on the fringes that whole season. Angel has 44 premier league goals for Villa. It probably would be 55+ had SGT used him that season.
And what was 'C**tgate'? Sounds intriguing!
Angel was injured.
He was injured for some parts but also available for others but SGT went with Crouch-Vassell at the start (even though it was too soon for Crouchy to be regularly starting) and then put in Dublin around October/November.
Angel-Vassell in the two full seasons together as first choice did very well generally hitting double figures each so surprise to me it was tinkered with for more unproven options.
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A dreadful night. Can't believe it is 20 years ago. It doesn't feel like 20 years.
I couldn't understand why SGT kept Angel on the fringes that whole season. Angel has 44 premier league goals for Villa. It probably would be 55+ had SGT used him that season.
And what was 'C**tgate'? Sounds intriguing!
Angel was injured.
He was injured for some parts but also available for others but SGT went with Crouch-Vassell at the start (even though it was too soon for Crouchy to be regularly starting) and then put in Dublin around October/November.
Angel-Vassell in the two full seasons together as first choice did very well generally hitting double figures each so surprise to me it was tinkered with for more unproven options.
Just passing on what the great man told me.
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I got over it a long time ago anyway. They had a good 6 game run against us, W4 D2 but then we went on to win 6 in a row. In fact in the 16 games since that good 6 game run for them it's W11 D4 L1 for us. Specifically since the night in question its P20 W11 D6 L3 so we put it right on the pitch where it's most important. And if we talk about humiliation they never did us like the 5-1, when we looked like we were at least 2 divisions better than them.
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The two games that season were everything that was - and is - wrong with the rivalry. And that's without getting upset about the results. The atmosphere at Villa Park was toxic.
I really hope that we never again get relegated and that they never again manage to claw themselves into the top division.
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The two games that season were everything that was - and is - wrong with the rivalry. And that's without getting upset about the results. The atmosphere at Villa Park was toxic.
I really hope that we never again get relegated and that they never again manage to claw themselves into the top division.
I know, but on the flipside the two games in 07-08 were fucking magic, a late winner over there and the aforementioned rout at home.
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We beat them 6-2 in the very early sixties, could have been 1960 even. I was at it and I remember Gerry Hitchens got a hat-trick.
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Worth mentioning that the season this game happened is the only time in 48 (about to be 49 given they're not coming up and we're not going down) seasons they finished above us.
It was a strange season. Sir Graham got all sorts of abuse from the start, mainly for taking the job and therefore selling out to help Ellis. He inherited a snakepit with players virtually on strike and it seemed that every time we got a good result we followed it with a bad one.
Everything went against us - Vassell had a goal disallowed at 1-1 at the Sty, then towards the end of the season we were a goal up in stoppage time at Southampton, Ronnie Jonsen skied a clearance that could have gone anywhere but fell perfectly for Kevin Davies. It was a weird final table; another three goals (I think) and we'd have finished ninth.
It was on odd season indeed. Only 7 points separated Boro in 11th and West Ham in 18th. The latter were relegated with 42 points, a total that no other relegated team has come close to achieving ever since, and one that kept us looking over our shoulder right to the end.
His season and a bit in charge was a disaster though unfortunately. Not all of his own making, as he'd inherited late Gregory era transfer mistakes like Kachloul, Hadji and Balaban, but then compounded it by signing the likes of Kinsella, Allback, UDLC and Leonhardsen. Some of that would have been due to Ellis's increasing inability to keep pace with the Premier League, but the season after under Mr Fickle we signed McCann, Sorensen, Solano and Laursen who all had a much more of a positive effect on the squad. Shame really, he should never have come back, something I reckon he might have agreed with, looking back.
I think DOL benefitted by not being Taylor. Taylor's tactics were from a bygone era and man management skills were Remi Garde esque. Gregory's squad had a lot of players over the hill but adding the likes of Kinsella to it made a bad situation worse. We still had likes of Angel, Vassell, Barry, Mellberg, Hendrie, Hitz, Alpay, Delaney...should have been nowhere near relegation. Thinking Enkelmann was anywhere near PL standard a terrible error of judgement too.
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Worth mentioning that the season this game happened is the only time in 48 (about to be 49 given they're not coming up and we're not going down) seasons they finished above us.
It was a strange season. Sir Graham got all sorts of abuse from the start, mainly for taking the job and therefore selling out to help Ellis. He inherited a snakepit with players virtually on strike and it seemed that every time we got a good result we followed it with a bad one.
Everything went against us - Vassell had a goal disallowed at 1-1 at the Sty, then towards the end of the season we were a goal up in stoppage time at Southampton, Ronnie Jonsen skied a clearance that could have gone anywhere but fell perfectly for Kevin Davies. It was a weird final table; another three goals (I think) and we'd have finished ninth.
It was on odd season indeed. Only 7 points separated Boro in 11th and West Ham in 18th. The latter were relegated with 42 points, a total that no other relegated team has come close to achieving ever since, and one that kept us looking over our shoulder right to the end.
His season and a bit in charge was a disaster though unfortunately. Not all of his own making, as he'd inherited late Gregory era transfer mistakes like Kachloul, Hadji and Balaban, but then compounded it by signing the likes of Kinsella, Allback, UDLC and Leonhardsen. Some of that would have been due to Ellis's increasing inability to keep pace with the Premier League, but the season after under Mr Fickle we signed McCann, Sorensen, Solano and Laursen who all had a much more of a positive effect on the squad. Shame really, he should never have come back, something I reckon he might have agreed with, looking back.
I think DOL benefitted by not being Taylor. Taylor's tactics were from a bygone era and man management skills were Remi Garde esque. Gregory's squad had a lot of players over the hill but adding the likes of Kinsella to it made a bad situation worse. We still had likes of Angel, Vassell, Barry, Mellberg, Hendrie, Hitz, Alpay, Delaney...should have been nowhere near relegation. Thinking Enkelmann was anywhere near PL standard a terrible error of judgement too.
That last sentence is true, but he wouldn't be the first awful keeper to play in the Premier League. Hell, we might have had three or four worse keepers since.
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He wasn’t at all bad up to that point, that game ruined him, and so it should.
Before that game he looked a promising keeper who’s career could have gone either way.
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This fixture messed with my mind. I'd absolutely dread losing and although victories were enjoyable, they were more like relief than anything. I don't miss these games at all.
The best analogy I’ve heard is playing them is like fighting a midget. If we lose we’d never hear the end of it. Win, and we look like we enjoy beating up midgets.
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I got over it a long time ago anyway. They had a good 6 game run against us, W4 D2 but then we went on to win 6 in a row. In fact in the 16 games since that good 6 game run for them it's W11 D4 L1 for us. Specifically since the night in question its P20 W11 D6 L3 so we put it right on the pitch where it's most important. And if we talk about humiliation they never did us like the 5-1, when we looked like we were at least 2 divisions better than them.
Yeah the 5-1 was not only my favourite derby win, although the 6-2 at VP in 1960 pushes it close, but one of my favourite VP matches ever. The only defeat in the 16 games, was the League Cup QF match.
Since the first derby in 1887, our record is W 57, D 33, L38.
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The 5-1 is perhaps the only time at a football match where I've been delirious with joy. I was in the North Lower and every time the ball hit the net the entire row emptied out into one mad mass of supporters. It was ace.
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There used to be a saying that Villa beat Albion beat Blues beat Villa. That's gone now.
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Worth mentioning that the season this game happened is the only time in 48 (about to be 49 given they're not coming up and we're not going down) seasons they finished above us.
It was a strange season. Sir Graham got all sorts of abuse from the start, mainly for taking the job and therefore selling out to help Ellis. He inherited a snakepit with players virtually on strike and it seemed that every time we got a good result we followed it with a bad one.
Everything went against us - Vassell had a goal disallowed at 1-1 at the Sty, then towards the end of the season we were a goal up in stoppage time at Southampton, Ronnie Jonsen skied a clearance that could have gone anywhere but fell perfectly for Kevin Davies. It was a weird final table; another three goals (I think) and we'd have finished ninth.
It was on odd season indeed. Only 7 points separated Boro in 11th and West Ham in 18th. The latter were relegated with 42 points, a total that no other relegated team has come close to achieving ever since, and one that kept us looking over our shoulder right to the end.
His season and a bit in charge was a disaster though unfortunately. Not all of his own making, as he'd inherited late Gregory era transfer mistakes like Kachloul, Hadji and Balaban, but then compounded it by signing the likes of Kinsella, Allback, UDLC and Leonhardsen. Some of that would have been due to Ellis's increasing inability to keep pace with the Premier League, but the season after under Mr Fickle we signed McCann, Sorensen, Solano and Laursen who all had a much more of a positive effect on the squad. Shame really, he should never have come back, something I reckon he might have agreed with, looking back.
I think DOL benefitted by not being Taylor. Taylor's tactics were from a bygone era and man management skills were Remi Garde esque. Gregory's squad had a lot of players over the hill but adding the likes of Kinsella to it made a bad situation worse. We still had likes of Angel, Vassell, Barry, Mellberg, Hendrie, Hitz, Alpay, Delaney...should have been nowhere near relegation. Thinking Enkelmann was anywhere near PL standard a terrible error of judgement too.
Barry wanted to leave in the last months of Gregory....was bizarrely not getting in ahead of Staunton. He played very well under SGT and got called up to England. Hitz again was on fringes of squad and got a proper chance.
Alpay came back from the world cup and wasn't interested anymore and Ronny Johnsen wasn't a bad pickup as a short term replacement.
Think the main problem was Merson went and we had little creativity in central midfield so it was just slinging in endless crosses from someone like De La Cruz who generally did better for us at RB when he moved there under O'Leary.
It was just a strange appointment at the time and very short termist. Weren't we linked with likes of Van Gaal when Gregory walked?
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The 5-1 is perhaps the only time at a football match where I've been delirious with joy. I was in the North Lower and every time the ball hit the net the entire row emptied out into one mad mass of supporters. It was ace.
It was tremendous, men against boys, Carew with the ball boy, Mellberg celebrating and all the general piss taking afterwards. We’ve had some good times against them, Cahill, Hourihane and Hutton goals spring to mind.
The highs are exhilarating but the lows, although generally few and far between, are desperate.
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Like most of you I’ve been to Villa park hundreds of times and the 5-1 was one of the very best, partly stoked by the events of the thread title and a few others around the time.
I only go here and there now but I must admit the 3-1 against Man Utd last October is also right up there. I do hate them considerably more than Blues though. It felt good to get the old feeling back.
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On the subject of coaches I recall one sunny Sunday morning where we hopped in a taxi from Yardley to the game . As we headed down Watery Lane there was a line of coaches just about to set off. It seemed so ridiculous at the time, and of course we gave them all a cheery wave as we sped past.
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Piss taking aside, the coaches have never bothered me. Considering how we know both sets of fans can behave with this fixture I don't blame normal fans wanting to avoid that shit and instead make sure they get safely to and from a match. Especially when you look at what happened to the Blackpool fan yesterday.
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I always quite enjoy the jeopardy of the derby, but unless we get them in the cup, I don't anticipate us playing them for 10 maybe 15 years plus in the league. Given its a toxic rivalry based on their obsessive jealousy, 20 more years of us dominating the region won't do much to quell that.
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I always quite enjoy the jeopardy of the derby, but unless we get them in the cup, I don't anticipate us playing them for 10 maybe 15 years plus in the league. Given its a toxic rivalry based on their obsessive jealousy, 20 more years of us dominating the region won't do much to quell that.
But over those 15 odd years there will surely become less of them. Even family ties will see the kids turn more and more to the villa. As a kid who would you follow. A team in the prem possibly Europe or a team with half a ground who success means staying in the championship. The press covering us and not them.They are were they are because they deserve to be.i