Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: robleflaneur on February 27, 2023, 12:07:52 PM
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We are fickle.A lot of fans wanted Watkins,Mings and McGinn out.They are solid performers now.
Apologies ,the headline was Evening Mail style clickbait.But we are a pretty decent side.19 points from 11 games under Emery.Call that 38 from 22 and we'd be 7th,3 points behind Fulham with 3 games in hand.It's not just new manager bounce,Danks handed 9th place Brentford a hammering and we recently lost unluckily 3 in a row.
We don't need major summer changes.A pacy wide goalscorer and Guendozi or similar (Maddison ?) would get us more goals and we would concede fewer by keeping possession better.Add Diego Carlos and we can really compete.
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Worst thread title ever.
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Worst thread title ever.
Yeah, it's up there.
'O'Leary was shite' would be better.
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'How to Win Friends and Influence People' by robeflaneur.
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'How to Win Friends and Influence People' by robeflaneur.
He's got a point though!
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It's no more fickle than any other club plus were not all one single monolithic group that thinks the same way, there are different voices giving those opinions
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Did we ever find out what a sugarbag is?
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'How to Win Friends and Influence People' by robeflaneur.
He's got a point though!
Get back to us when we finish higher than 11th.
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We are fickle.A lot of fans wanted Watkins,Mings and McGinn out.They are solid performers now.
Fickle or not, some of us want more than "solid performers". Connor Hourihane is a "solid performer"
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'How to Win Friends and Influence People' by robeflaneur.
He's got a point though!
There was absolute no point in starting this thread. If he wanted to express this opinion, which i pretty much completely disagree with and i'm sure many others will, he could have just re-worded it a bit and put it in the summer transfer window thread.
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Apart both being midfielders, how on earth are Guendouzi and Maddison similar players?
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We are fickle. Every set of fans on the planet are. We are no more, or less, fickle than any of the others. But thanks to that pug nosed twat we are labeled as some of the worst for it, by the media, and even some of our own fans.
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I dont disagree with his overall point but I'm not sure a new thread was needed.
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O'Leary didn't understand the meaning of the word 'fickle' and nor does anybody who parrots him.
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O'Leary didn't understand the meaning of the word 'fickle' and nor does anybody who parrots him.
It is almost as tediously misused as 'scapegoat'.
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Nothing to do with being fickle he simply wasn't up to the job. Remind me...how many jobs has he had since ?
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I did something solid this morning if that helps.
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O'Leary didn't understand the meaning of the word 'fickle' and nor does anybody who parrots him.
Indeed.
When he induldged in that shite it was an arse covering excercise for his latest bad run, to go alongside such other gems as 'we can't compete with the Boltons and Middlesboroughs of this world' and 'Aston Villa last won a trophy in 1980 summat' (factually incorrect, shows how much he really cared).
Yet he's quoted by some Villa fans still as if he's a wise old sage.
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He first said it after the Wycombe game.
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We are fickle.A lot of fans wanted Watkins,Mings and McGinn out.They are solid performers now.
Apologies ,the headline was Evening Mail style clickbait.But we are a pretty decent side.19 points from 11 games under Emery.Call that 38 from 22 and we'd be 7th,3 points behind Fulham with 3 games in hand.It's not just new manager bounce,Danks handed 9th place Brentford a hammering and we recently lost unluckily 3 in a row.
We don't need major summer changes.A pacy wide goalscorer and Guendozi or similar (Maddison ?) would get us more goals and we would concede fewer by keeping possession better.Add Diego Carlos and we can really compete.
It depends on who you want to compete with.
To compete in the mid table to bottom half sides then yes but to start building a group of players to compete for a European place then we need a few new players. Emery has said he wants us to play more attacking football so although I’d keep Watkins, McGinn and Mings within the squad we need players to provide competition. Strength in midfield is needed, a wide player with proper pace, another forward, a midfielder who creates regularly and 2 central defenders. I suspect a few will leave and we may introduce 1 or 2 of our young players but the quality needs to improve somewhat. Good scouting and knowledge is needed and for once we have a coach who is proven.
Fickle? I’d say for a club our size the support has proven over the last decade or so they are far from fickle. You compare what we’ve gone through since Lerner chucked it in to any club with our pedigree and I’d say we have a fantastic fan base who just want a competitive team. As for O’Leary, can we not try and forget he was ever at our club?
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Worst thread title ever.
And the least accurate.
Can we change it to, if you don’t like Villa fans, here is your thread.
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We are fickle.A lot of fans wanted Watkins,Mings and McGinn out.They are solid performers now.
Apologies ,the headline was Evening Mail style clickbait.But we are a pretty decent side.19 points from 11 games under Emery.Call that 38 from 22 and we'd be 7th,3 points behind Fulham with 3 games in hand.It's not just new manager bounce,Danks handed 9th place Brentford a hammering and we recently lost unluckily 3 in a row.
We don't need major summer changes.A pacy wide goalscorer and Guendozi or similar (Maddison ?) would get us more goals and we would concede fewer by keeping possession better.Add Diego Carlos and we can really compete.
Define a lot. 20, 50, 100?
A lot of fans may have questioned their form since Emery's arrival but wanting them out?
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Did we ever find out what a sugarbag is?
A shitbag.
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Also, thread title by roblevanneur.*
*One for the speakers of French obviously.
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Also, thread title by roblevanneur.*
*One for the speakers of French obviously.
Inconstant
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For fuck sake, all football fans are fickle. It goes with the territory.
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We are fickle.A lot of fans wanted Watkins,Mings and McGinn out.They are solid performers now.
Apologies ,the headline was Evening Mail style clickbait.But we are a pretty decent side.19 points from 11 games under Emery.Call that 38 from 22 and we'd be 7th,3 points behind Fulham with 3 games in hand.It's not just new manager bounce,Danks handed 9th place Brentford a hammering and we recently lost unluckily 3 in a row.
We don't need major summer changes.A pacy wide goalscorer and Guendozi or similar (Maddison ?) would get us more goals and we would concede fewer by keeping possession better.Add Diego Carlos and we can really compete.
Stop it please. We have won a few games and lost nearly as many. Wait till we have achieved something. And by the way I would say that three you have mentioned are not yet there. Don't forget we conceded 11 in 3 games.
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We are fickle.A lot of fans wanted Watkins,Mings and McGinn out.They are solid performers now.
Apologies ,the headline was Evening Mail style clickbait.But we are a pretty decent side.19 points from 11 games under Emery.Call that 38 from 22 and we'd be 7th,3 points behind Fulham with 3 games in hand.It's not just new manager bounce,Danks handed 9th place Brentford a hammering and we recently lost unluckily 3 in a row.
We don't need major summer changes.A pacy wide goalscorer and Guendozi or similar (Maddison ?) would get us more goals and we would concede fewer by keeping possession better.Add Diego Carlos and we can really compete.
Define a lot. 20, 50, 100?
A lot of fans may have questioned their form since Emery's arrival but wanting them out?
To be fair McGinn was being referred to as a fat knacker on here not too long ago. Loads wanted Watkins gone and Mings, let's just say he divides opinions (mine included). I'd be more of the view we have a group of under achieving players, short a few additions from troubling the Europa league spots, but were lacking proper organisation and coaching primarily.
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I object. I didn’t want Watkins or Mings out and I still don’t. I wouldn’t mind if McGinn left or is left mainly on the bench.
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We are like it or not a better team with Mings in the side - I compare him to Tony Adams at Arsenal in that respect. Ironically O'Leary was a better footballer than he but defence was less cohesive than when Adams/Bould played.
Watkins was undone by having 4 attacking newbies join in a 4 month period Sept 21 - Jan 02, and a clueless manager who didn't know how to set up a side to attack. He is much better now.
McGinn - done well last couple of game but squad player at best and has been since Grealish left
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O’Leary was a twat.
Much better title.
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We are like it or not a better team with Mings in the side - I compare him to Tony Adams at Arsenal in that respect. Ironically O'Leary was a better footballer than he but defence was less cohesive than when Adams/Bould played.
Watkins was undone by having 4 attacking newbies join in a 4 month period Sept 21 - Jan 02, and a clueless manager who didn't know how to set up a side to attack. He is much better now.
McGinn - done well last couple of game but squad player at best and has been since Grealish left
It's funny because I never liked O'Leary as a player (he always seemed to be wearing a shirt a size too small for his arms), or subsequently as a manager. So he can't say I was fucking fickle there.
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Oops,the intention was to highlight the progress of the team and players under Emery and not to question the fans' opinions.Went for a clickbait headline which badly misfired instead of an easy " Our progress under Emery".
O'leary ..just add any expletive.
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I object. I didn’t want Watkins or Mings out and I still don’t. I wouldn’t mind if McGinn left or is left mainly on the bench.
I'm with you on this one.
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I have never wanted (and still won't this summer) those 3 out of the club. I've wanted to see better players signed to compete with all three and if it means they end up out of the team because others are playing better so be it. It'll mean we're doing well.
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I object. I didn’t want Watkins or Mings out and I still don’t. I wouldn’t mind if McGinn left or is left mainly on the bench.
I'm with you on this one.
Me 3, I see Guendouzi as a clear replacement for McGinn as well so I suspect we're already looking at that. The other 2 are much further down the list of players we need to improve on and I'll be fine with them both still being regulars next year.
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That's not what fickle means. You can be the biggest moany bastard about just about any aspect of the club but that does not make you fickle. Fickle is deserting the club when times are bad and only being interested when things are sweet. Those who express their discontent do so because they are hurting over something they care about
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What O'Leary was right about was that that squad badly needed investment. Investment he didn't get under Ellis but which O'Neill did under Lerner and co, at first at least...
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It's possible to be a bit quick to get on people's backs and for none of it to apply to O'Leary, world-class chancer and all-around fool.
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He first said it after the Wycombe game.
Was that a crazy score, 7-4 in the Milk Cup or similar?
He presided over us getting a 3-0 stuffing to Donny, FFS!
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He first said it after the Wycombe game.
Was that a crazy score, 7-4 in the Milk Cup or similar?
He presided over us getting a 3-0 stuffing to Donny, FFS!
Wycombe 3 Villa 8. The only 11 goal Villa match of my lifetime, I think. But was that that long ago?...wow.
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I have never wanted (and still won't this summer) those 3 out of the club. I've wanted to see better players signed to compete with all three and if it means they end up out of the team because others are playing better so be it. It'll mean we're doing well.
Not sure I particularly want anyone gone. The loanees all seem to have found their natural levels so are probably better where they are. Olsen can frog off. Can't see what Dendocker adds and Ramsey seems to have flattered to deceive. They can all go.
That's quite a few actually...but it's more about who we bring in. Hopefully Carlos will be like a new signing...
...Chambers can go too...
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Jack Charlton saw through DOL's ego as a player!
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Think you're being incredibly harsh on Ramsey there
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Yeah we were 3-1 down and playing shit at half time, we won 8-3. He said the fans at the game were fickle because they dished out stick at half time and cheered at full time.
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Actually Martyn, don't worry about it, I've just read the 'what's wrong with you' thread, I feel I need to cut you some slack
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Milner scored that day. Mental that he's still playing.
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I will say this for O'Leary.
O'Neill still splits opinion a bit but is generally still held in pretty high regard, but he never bettered O'Leary's first season with us despite having much, much greater resouces to work with.
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Didn't we finish that first season under DOL really strongly? Seem to remember JPA being a real threat at the back post from crosses from likes of Solano (maybe my mind is playing tricks on me!). The way DOLs reign ended ensured he never got near a PL job again!
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With the progress Leedzzz made on his watch (admittedly throwing money at the thing from the midway point onwards) and his first year with us there was a decent coach/ manager in there somewhere.
He just kept on talking.
Naused out his own players and fans at both clubs by the end.
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From memory, he gave off a 'you ought to be grateful i'm here' vibe although I'm sure that wasn't the case. Think he managed over in the middle east after us and that was it.
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Didn't we finish that first season under DOL really strongly? Seem to remember JPA being a real threat at the back post from crosses from likes of Solano (maybe my mind is playing tricks on me!). The way DOLs reign ended ensured he never got near a PL job again!
We did, and if we still had an outside chance of finishing 4th at the last game of the season. Only didn't qualify for Europe because Middlesborough won the league Cup and bloody Millwall got to the FA Cup final
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The one thing I could never understand with O'Leary is why he went out of his way to alienate so many people. Ellis was so unpopular that all he had to do was keep quiet and he'd have been excused just about anything. Instead, he became loathed by everyone except Chris Smith.
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The one thing I could never understand with O'Leary is why he went out of his way to alienate so many people. Ellis was so unpopular that all he had to do was keep quiet and he'd have been excused just about anything. Instead, he became loathed by everyone except Chris Smith.
Chris showed a stoicism rarely seen in the face of such hostility
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Didn't we finish that first season under DOL really strongly?
We finished 6th, what more did you want?
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Nothing to do with being fickle he simply wasn't up to the job. Remind me...how many jobs has he had since ?
Is that the same O'Leary who took Villa to 6th, with a worse team, and spending a fraction of the money, O'Neill had.
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I was at an event with a load of ex-pros and was told by an ex pro that no one in football had a good word to say about O’Leary, he was disliked by every one because he was an arrogant prick.
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Nothing to do with being fickle he simply wasn't up to the job. Remind me...how many jobs has he had since ?
Is that the same O'Leary who took Villa to 6th, with a worse team, and spending a fraction of the money, O'Neill had.
and then made us worse 2 seasons in a row.
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I've got 99 pages in the sweep. Good luck all!
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The second half of his first season, and the first half of his second season were top 4/5 form. The wheels came off spectacularly after that though. It's a weird one, he was clearly a decent to good manager, and there have been far worse in terms of ability who have kept on getting jobs time after time (step forward S Bruce esq) but he was such a monumental wanker that clearly nobody wanted anything to do with him.
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I never warmed to DOL
Possible that the fact he was a colossal wanker may of played on my bias.
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I was vehemently against him towards the end of his tenure, but there are some good memories.
Who remembers him running onto the pitch when Luke Moore looked badly injured?
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I was at an event with a load of ex-pros and was told by an ex pro that no one in football had a good word to say about O’Leary, he was disliked by every one because he was an arrogant prick.
I can confirm this.A freind was well acquainted with a ROI player. He told my mate that all the players in the squad detested him. If memory serves me he said any time you had a conversation with O'Leary he was never just passing the time but always after something. A pretty dislikeable individual .
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Cascarino's weirdly good autobiography suggests similar.
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On Aug 1, 1979 O'Leary, then agreeing a new contract, told Arsenal that as well as his basic salary he wanted an additional sum of £28,985 paid in "a tax efficient manner".
In order to provide the money tax-free, Hambros Channel Island Trust Corporation Ltd set up a trust of which O'Leary was the beneficiary. Arsenal lent the trust £266,000 free of interest and repayable on demand. The money was invested in a deposit account in a Jersey bank. The interest from it, minus trustee's fee, came to exactly £28,985 and O'Leary, an Irish national not domiciled in the UK, claimed he did not have to pay UK tax on the sum.
When the Inland Revenue disagreed, O'Leary and his advisers argued this money was not from his Arsenal employment but from the deposit account opened by the trust. The Inland Revenue took the matter to court and in December 1990 Justice Vinelot held that O'Leary had to pay tax.
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Cascarino's weirdly good autobiography suggests similar.
That's where I read it! I couldn't place where I had seen that. Cascarino wasn't very complimentary about Frank Stapleton either.
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Cascarino's weirdly good autobiography suggests similar.
That's where I read it! I couldn't place where I had seen that. Cascarino wasn't very complimentary about Frank Stapleton either.
Seemingly Jack Charlton moved on the old guard Stapleton & Brady relatively quickly, Lawro retired though injury and marganalised O'Leary probably because they all had too much influence.
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Cascarino told me that he roomed with Fuckoff for years but never once heard him talking about football.
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Cascarino told me that he roomed with Fuckoff for years but never once heard him talking about football.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2002/jun/28/newsstory.sport2
Love the last line.
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Leaving Europe will save us £350 million a week.
Trump will Make America Great Again.
Mussolini made the trains run on time.
O'Leary was right.
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Fickle implies changing your mind frequently - I don't think many are actually fickle.
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Fickle implies changing your mind frequently - I don't think many are actually fickle.
Let’s face it, it’s a piss poor idea for a thread, when you consider the inaccurate nature of the headline and the credibility of the person being quoted.
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Cascarino's weirdly good autobiography suggests similar.
That's where I read it! I couldn't place where I had seen that. Cascarino wasn't very complimentary about Frank Stapleton either.
Seemingly Jack Charlton moved on the old guard Stapleton & Brady relatively quickly, Lawro retired though injury and marganalised O'Leary probably because they all had too much influence.
DOL didn't bother showing up to a end of season tournament in Iceland when Charlton took charge (don't think he was the only one, mind). He didn't pick him again for 3 or 4 years. Mick McCarthy was made captain in the interim which even now seems pointed. DOL did go onto score the winning peno v Romania in Italia 90! Stapleton played in Euro 88 and Brady would have only he was suspended and later injured.
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Didn't we finish that first season under DOL really strongly? Seem to remember JPA being a real threat at the back post from crosses from likes of Solano (maybe my mind is playing tricks on me!). The way DOLs reign ended ensured he never got near a PL job again!
We did, and if we still had an outside chance of finishing 4th at the last game of the season. Only didn't qualify for Europe because Middlesborough won the league Cup and bloody Millwall got to the FA Cup final
I remember telling a few of my fanzine customers that if we bought Solano and Izzet in January that we would qualify for the Champions League. Most of them thought I was mad, but it would have been close.
It was mainly because I rated Angel so highly rather than anything to do with Dolly, but still.
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Cascarino's weirdly good autobiography suggests similar.
Excellently ghosted (in the non-social meeds modern parlance) by Paul Kimmage.
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Sex text pest.
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Can we just change the title to 'O Leary was shite'. Would look a lot better.
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Sex text pest.
Yes remember that. Urgh.
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Can we just change the title to 'O Leary was shite'. Would look a lot better.
Just needs 2 words added - O'Leary was (a) right (twat)
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Sex text pest.
Yes remember that. Urgh.
Did he send pics of little Dolly? It was pre-smartphone but that's probably the only reason, thwarted by technology, the randy learner...
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Cascarino's weirdly good autobiography suggests similar.
Excellently ghosted (in the non-social meeds modern parlance) by Paul Kimmage.
It is an excellent book, that. I felt the big revelation, that he wasn't actually Irish, was one of the least interesting things in it and kind of a bit shoehorned in towards the end. His rise to prominence and the humdrum later career was far more fascinating.
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To answer the OP, why are we fickle?
I recall that when we drew with Citeh, people praised Villa's performance and the manager.
The following game saw us beat Southampton. Lots of posters on here wanted Gerrard gone, because the performance was awful.
It's not only about results but how we play and whether you can detect some form of progress with the way the club/team is run.
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To answer the OP, why are we fickle?
I recall that when we drew with Citeh, people praised Villa's performance and the manager.
The following game saw us beat Southampton. Lots of posters on here wanted Gerrard gone, because the performance was awful.
It's not only about results but how we play and whether you can detect some form of progress with the way the club/team is run.
We're fickle because - and this is absolutely unique to us - we're happy when we're playing well & winning and unhappy when we're playing shit & not winning.
A novel concept in sport. Pigface had us twigged from the start.
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To answer the OP, why are we fickle?
I recall that when we drew with Citeh, people praised Villa's performance and the manager.
The following game saw us beat Southampton. Lots of posters on here wanted Gerrard gone, because the performance was awful.
It's not only about results but how we play and whether you can detect some form of progress with the way the club/team is run.
We're fickle because - and this is absolutely unique to us - we're happy when we're playing well & winning and unhappy when we're playing shit & not winning.
A novel concept in sport. Pigface had us twigged from the start.
The song The Fall never recorded because it wou'd've been a bit mainstream.
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White Dee from Benefits Street has worked more than O'Leary has in the last 15 years.
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White Dee from Benefits Street has worked more than O'Leary has in the last 15 years.
*Applause*
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White Dee from Benefits Street has worked more than O'Leary has in the last 15 years.
Love it lol
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I know nothing of White Dee (but can guess) but I suspect that O'Fuckwit doesn't need to work if he has invested his football earnings wisely.
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Can we just change the title to 'O Leary was shite'. Would look a lot better.
Just needs 2 words added - O'Leary was (a) right (twat)
Post of the week.