Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Dave P on January 09, 2023, 09:29:11 AM
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Simple question on the back of last night. For me, it is Bradford as it was a semi final and we had two chances at it but Stevenage is a close second.
I hope this thread is not having to be bumped in future seasons.
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Yesterday for me. By a country mile.
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Yesterday for me. Compare the team we had yesterday to the one that lost to Bradford, and also the manager.
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Tough one between yesterday and Bradford.
The fact we lost at home is pretty embarrassing, however we weren't outplayed like we were in that first leg at Bradford.
What a conversation to be having...
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Let's put yesterday into context. On my facebook memories this morning I had a video of Micah Richards being confronted at Wycombe by fans doubting our players commitment and passion. This in a game we got a draw from and went onto scrape home in the replay - I believe this was the last time we won in the 3rd round! So yesterday is easily the worst.
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Yesterday was bad, but still fresh in the memory. I would.say Bradford or Chelsea away hammering.
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Bradford was shocking and predictable at the same time. The worst.
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Yesterday.
Dreadful performance against a side that clearly knew they could let us have the ball with no chance of doing anything with it and just wait for us to implode.
Simply the most humiliating experience as a Villa fan for me but hopefully a turning point.
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Yesterday, by some distance.
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Bradford was shocking and predictable at the same time. The worst.
Yeah, for me losing over two legs to a 4th division side was more embarassing, and they were the better side over both legs.
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The thing is, without that mistake by Dendonkar then we'd have staggered to 90 minutes and gone through. The performance would have been on par with plenty of early-round cup games in the last 20 years. However, the result is as bad as any we've ever had a Villa Park.
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Bradford for me, simply because it was a semi-final and we lost over two legs. What makes that one worse was that we had actually found some form by the time the final was played and probably would have beaten Swansea.
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Honourable mention for Them 3 Us 0 in 2002
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Bradford was much worse than yesterday, one step from the final and with two games in which to score more goals than them.
I can’t imagine anyone went home yesterday and had to cancel a hotel booking for Wembley!
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Yesterday was like the bastard offspring of Bradford and that Wolves collapse from last year.
Losing by a goal to a last minute winner arguably isn't as humiliating as losing to Bradford over two legs, but with us winning up until 87 minutes and throwing it away, yeah, I'd say it' worse. We'll be hearing about this for many years.
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Bradford for me. Losing over 2 legs with the second at home to a Division 2 club when you’re in a semi final is unforgivable. Yesterday runs it close but still Bradford for me.
Surprised Aldershot in the 60s isn’t on the list.
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I cared more during the Bradford days. Wanted the players to do well, even though so many of them were crap.
Nowadays I just think too many of our players are ******
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As I said elsewhere, we should have hammered Bradford in the first fifteen minutes of both legs, plus we were shite then, they'd beaten Arsenal in the previous round and it was 'only' the League Cup. Yesterday was worse than that.
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Yesterday for me.
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Blues 0-2 at Villa after losing the away game earlier in the season was the most pissed off i've been at a result and i went. Bradford over the 2 legs the most disappointing as we missed a cup final, didn't go though. Went yesterday and that was the most outrightly embarrassing result of all i think.
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Can't believe you're all forgetting Millwall Athletic in 1900. We had three goes at that one and still lost.
Ramsay Out.
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As I said elsewhere, we should have hammered Bradford in the first fifteen minutes of both legs, plus we were shite then, they'd beaten Arsenal in the previous round and it was 'only' the League Cup. Yesterday was worse than that.
I don't remember us doing that in the first 15 mins at Bradford, I remember us being thoroughly outplayed and being grateful we'd managed to nick a goal.
Still, it's six and two threes, they're both a disgrace
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Is it really necessary to flagellate ourselves with another thread?
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As I said elsewhere, we should have hammered Bradford in the first fifteen minutes of both legs, plus we were shite then, they'd beaten Arsenal in the previous round and it was 'only' the League Cup. Yesterday was worse than that.
I don't remember us doing that in the first 15 mins at Bradford, I remember us being thoroughly outplayed and being grateful we'd managed to nick a goal.
Still, it's six and two threes, they're both a disgrace
We had two good chances before they'd hardly touched the ball, then at 2-1 Darren Bent had an open goal, jumped for the ball and pulled a muscle.
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Funnily enough, Bradford 3, Villa 1 was ten years ago to the day yesterday. For a bit of context, this was the team back then:
Given, Lowton, Baker, Clark, Bennett, Bannan, Delph, N'Zogbia, Weimann, Agbonlahor, Benteke
Subs: Guzan, Ireland, Bent, Stevens, Lichaj, Burke, Carruthers
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Bradford was far worse. I honestly don't know how we can think yesterday was worse than Bradford. Against Bradford we were humiliated over two legs in a semi final. We had two legs against lower league opponents to reach a final and blew it. We also had a big atmosphere for the home leg.
Yesterday was the 3rd round of the FA cup. The fans didn't seem up for it and the players messed up in the last few minutes. These things happen in the FA cup every year. Didn't this lot beat Newcastle about 10 years ago?
I sometimes think there is some sort of agenda to make that era seem less shit than it was and this one more shit than it is. Those years of circling the drain were the worst.
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Bradford was far worse. I honestly don't know how we can think yesterday was worse than Bradford. Against Bradford we were humiliated over two legs in a semi final. We had two legs against lower league opponents to reach a final and blew it. We also had a big atmosphere for the home leg.
Yesterday was the 3rd round of the FA cup. The fans didn't seem up for it and the players messed up in the last few minutes. These things happen in the FA cup every year. Didn't this lot beat Newcastle about 10 years ago?
I sometimes think there is some sort of agenda to make that era seem less shit than it was and this one more shit than it is. Those years of circling the drain were the worst.
We've got a much better team now, and a much better manager. Look at the players we put out - Lowton, Baker, Bennett, Bannan, Weimann, N'Zogbia. None of those were Premier League class really, as shown by their subsequent careers in the Football League, or in N'Zogbia's case, no career at all. The Bradford result came not long after the Christmas 8-0, 4-0 and 3-0 humblings. Christ alone knows how Lambert kept his job after that little lot.
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Bradford was worse because it was entirely in our hands. It was men v boys and all Lambert had to do was continue in the second half as we had the first, and we'd have got what we deserved.
What he actually opted to do was shit the bed, panic and go bat-shit with the subs and the route one he turned to on the pitch. So frustrating.
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Yesterday for me. A horrible lack lustre, pedestrian, clueless performance topped off by conceding two goals goals in the last 2 minutes. An international player who got himself bamboozled by a league 4 player into giving away a pen accompanied by a straight red and a second goal conceded with stunning ineptitude by the defence and a goalkeeper who really has no place playing in the Premier league. A truly miserable day in B6.
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Without doubt, Bradford - we were outplayed & well beaten over 2 legs of a semi-final by a team that wanted it more.
Yesterday - we treated it as a training session & got mugged at the end.
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My younger sons second ever match was the 8-0 at Chelsea, so many player dialling it in (Stephen Ireland I'm looking at you).
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Bradford was worse than yesterday.
We were in control yesterday until that stupid mistake and another fuck up shortly after.
Bradford was utterly humiliating over two legs.
The difference in squad is crazy too.
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Difference between result and performance.
The result yesterday is the worst ever I think, the performance perhaps not, we were't outclassed, just a self-inflicted smash and grab.
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In the Cup, Bradford. In the League, SHA horror-show at VP.
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If we are bringing league matches into it then there are too many to mention!
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The Chelsea 8-0 comes a close second in the league.
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Yesterday comes close but it's Bradford for me, as it was over 2 legs, VP was rocking for the 2nd leg and we still cocked it up.
The 4th tier of English football started in 1958, prior to then there was a Third Division North and Third Division South. The only time, before yesterday, we'd lost to a side in the 4th tier in the FA Cup was in an away replay to Aldershot in 1964. So yesterday will go down in the history books, as the first time we lost a home FA Cup tie against a side in the 4th tier.
The teams we lost to in the 5 seasons from 58/59 to 62/63, all went on to win the Cup.
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Bradford was a shocker but we battered them twice, their keeper played 2 blinders and we had over 20 shots on target over the 2 legs. We just couldn't defend corners back then.
Yesterday we dominated but created virtually fuck all. But Chambers knocks in a pretty simple chance and we go through fairly comfortably.
Doncaster still edges it for me, purely because we were simply outclassed and outplayed for the entire game everywhere on the pitch. Any neutral watching it would have thought we were the 3rd tier side. Michael McIndoe absolutely destroyed us and 3-0 flattered us.
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Bradford. Losing over two legs to a fourth tier side was worse than last night. That was just before Millwall knocked us out of the FA Cup a few days later.
I think a lot of people have forgotten how miserable that week was.
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In the space of a month, we had these gems...
0-8 Chelsea
0-4 Spurs
0-3 Wigan
1-3 Bradford (League Cup)
1-2 Milwall (FA Cup)
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Yesterday comes close but it's Bradford for me, as it was over 2 legs, VP was rocking for the 2nd leg and we still cocked it up.
The 4th tier of English football started in 1958, prior to then there was a Third Division North and Third Division South. The only time, before yesterday, we'd lost to a side in the 4th tier in the FA Cup was in an away replay to Aldershot in 1964. So yesterday will go down in the history books, as the first time we lost a home FA Cup tie against a side in the 4th tier.
The teams we lost to in the 5 seasons from 58/59 to 62/63, all went on to win the Cup.
Had yesterday's game been away it would still have been horrific to lose to a Fourth Divison team but you get a bit more leeway excuse-wise. Tight pitch, supporters on top of you, swirling wind/rain or whatever.
The FA Cup is full of those kind of tales where conditions on the day have evened up the encounter somewhat.
To be done on your own patch in conditions far from hostile is shamefully shit.
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Bradford was a shocker but we battered them twice, their keeper played 2 blinders and we had over 20 shots on target over the 2 legs. We just couldn't defend corners back then.
Yesterday we dominated but created virtually fuck all. But Chambers knocks in a pretty simple chance and we go through fairly comfortably.
Doncaster still edges it for me, purely because we were simply outclassed and outplayed for the entire game everywhere on the pitch. Any neutral watching it would have thought we were the 3rd tier side. Michael McIndoe absolutely destroyed us and 3-0 flattered us.
And without checking, I think we put out pretty well a full first team that night too.
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Bradford. Still have nightmares about that Hanson chap.
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2 legged Semi Final against a 4th tier team with the prospect of Swansea in a final for a trophy and we totally ballsed it up. Yesterday was abysmal because we managed to capitulate in 2 minutes against a 4th division club but that was worse for me.
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Bradford was a shocker but we battered them twice, their keeper played 2 blinders and we had over 20 shots on target over the 2 legs. We just couldn't defend corners back then.
Yesterday we dominated but created virtually fuck all. But Chambers knocks in a pretty simple chance and we go through fairly comfortably.
Doncaster still edges it for me, purely because we were simply outclassed and outplayed for the entire game everywhere on the pitch. Any neutral watching it would have thought we were the 3rd tier side. Michael McIndoe absolutely destroyed us and 3-0 flattered us.
And without checking, I think we put out pretty well a full first team that night too.
Samuel for Bouma was the closest to it not being our main starting 11 that season, and Bouma was iffy that season and was in and out the side anyway.
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I suppose the supplementary question is which ‘upsets’ were deliberate.
Yesterday looked that way to me. I’m not tuned into UEs accent yet so I can’t really tell but he didn’t sound that surprised and upset to me.
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Doncaster not quite for me as it meant the walk the plank for Clueless.
Bradford neither as we were shit and soon forgotten.
Stevenage still hasn't digested as my rage hasn't subsided and no amount of chocolate will remove that yet.
Has to be the 8-0 Chavski. I literally want their club burnt to the ground. I lost the power of speech that night.
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And the forward line was way better than the current one .....
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Still Bradford for me on account of it being twice.
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Yep, Bradford for me.
Cup upsets happen, a one off, a bad result, a flukey goal, but to lose both legs of a home and away cup semi-final against a 4th tier team is embarrassing.
Plus the fact Swansea beat them 5-0 in the final, just rubbed salt into the wounds of how bad we really were.
Maybe i jinxed it by booking flights to Wembley as soon as we were drawn against Bradford, the other semi was Swansea v Chelsea.
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We won the second leg at Villa Park 2-1, we just panicked!
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If Bluenose or Baggies fans have a go, just reply:
Blues 1-2 Altrincham
WBA 2-4 Woking FC
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I just laughed (embarrassed) when we conceded last night, at Bradford away I couldn’t have been angrier.
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Bradford. Losing over two legs to a fourth tier side was worse than last night. That was just before Millwall knocked us out of the FA Cup a few days later.
I think a lot of people have forgotten how miserable that week was.
I went to both legs against Bradford and the Millwall away clash!
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For me relegation. Yesterday was shit but relegation year was worse
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Aston Villa 0 Bradford 5 - Simod Cup, 1987.
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For my sins I just watched the Bradford "highlights". Benteke missed some amount of chances. A scarcely believable miss from Bent in the first leg included.
That was one useless Villa team, mind. The trio of Nzogbia, Ireland and Gabby without a shred of professional pride between them. None of those "young and hungry" types made it in the top division afterwards with or without Villa, MON proven right. Any scout who thought Joe Bennett would make it for us I hope is not working for the club anymore. Likes of Given and Bent were finished. Captain "concrete" Ron Vlaar soft as shite. The hapless Paul Lambert on the sideline and absolute mugs in the boardroom.
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I would say yesterday was the worst, although I will never know how Lambert survived that appalling run 10 seasons ago.
Another Cup classic could be up there - Aldershot in 1964, but I have no idea how bad that was and looking at the records, we had a poor side as well.
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We have had a few of these threads over the many years I have been on this site, and I always have the same reply.
We lost at The Sty 0-4 in September, 1968.
https://www.11v11.com/matches/birmingham-city-v-aston-villa-21-september-1968-113925/
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For me it was relegation in 1987, I was absolutely devastated.
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Bradford, easy. With the first leg I avoided the news all week, brooded on it and all of that. Went to the home leg, froze my absolute bollocks off and got pelted with snowballs by their fans while waiting at Witton for the train back home.
Yesterday I ranted for about thirty seconds, turned the telly off and had my tea.
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Aston Villa 0 Bradford 5 - Simod Cup, 1987.
Good shout. I remember yelling "oh, fuck off, Villa" at the top of my voice as I stormed off when the fourth went in that night only to get home and learn there had been a fifth.
Probably Bradford over two legs for me was the worst. I left on 78 minutes yesterday because it was the option of watching us not get out of second gear all night or going to do something far more important.
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Bradford was a shocker but we battered them twice, their keeper played 2 blinders and we had over 20 shots on target over the 2 legs. We just couldn't defend corners back then.
Yesterday we dominated but created virtually fuck all. But Chambers knocks in a pretty simple chance and we go through fairly comfortably.
Doncaster still edges it for me, purely because we were simply outclassed and outplayed for the entire game everywhere on the pitch. Any neutral watching it would have thought we were the 3rd tier side. Michael McIndoe absolutely destroyed us and 3-0 flattered us.
Doncaster for me. Abject display made worse by the fact that O'Leary decided to have a pop at the fans afterwards.
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Funnily enough, Bradford 3, Villa 1 was ten years ago to the day yesterday. For a bit of context, this was the team back then:
Given, Lowton, Baker, Clark, Bennett, Bannan, Delph, N'Zogbia, Weimann, Agbonlahor, Benteke
Subs: Guzan, Ireland, Bent, Stevens, Lichaj, Burke, Carruthers
Good lord
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Bradford for me too. Went to both legs and we were shite in both games.
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Losing 3-0 to relegation rivals Charlton during Easter weekend 1987. There have arguably been bigger one-off humiliations in the intervening years, but that's the most miserable I've ever been after a game. A misery compounded by having to endure such an awful performance in a near deserted Selhurst Park.
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9th November 1968
Villa 0 Preston 1 (Turnbull og)
Attendance 13,374
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Bradford. We'll never have a better opportunity at winning a cup.
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Are we conflating disappointments with humiliation? I have quite a few disappointments but humiliation? Yesterday.
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I think if the FA Cup still actually *meant* what it always used to, I'd be fuming at being this year's punchline. But it's not really made a ripple. That's both a relief and quite sad.
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Doncaster not quite for me as it meant the walk the plank for Clueless.
Bradford neither as we were shit and soon forgotten.
Stevenage still hasn't digested as my rage hasn't subsided and no amount of chocolate will remove that yet.
Has to be the 8-0 Chavski. I literally want their club burnt to the ground. I lost the power of speech that night.
I think this thread shows that Bradford wasn't soon forgotten. It was probably the lowest I have ever felt coming out of Villa Park.
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I think if the FA Cup still actually *meant* what it always used to, I'd be fuming at being this year's punchline. But it's not really made a ripple. That's both a relief and quite sad.
That's kind of how I feel (easy to say this being a long way away of course). I loved the FA Cup as a kid and winning it completes the set for me but it's been so devalued down the years'. With so many teams playing their reserves now these sorts of upsets seem to happen all the time. Its not only lost it's aura but it's ability to shock.
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Maybe some of the historians on the site could provide context but I'll bet that first relegation in 1936 was a touch humiliating. And the drop to Division 3.
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The biggest humiliation is that there have been so many, that we can actually have a thread dedicated to the subject.
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Division three for me as well, for those who are too young to have any knowledge of it, that was humiliating.
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We played our second string on Sunday. Against Bradford, over two legs, we played a full strength side.
There are plenty of occasions when things were shit, that night at Doncaster, that run of Lambert's when we were humiliated at Chelsea, etc. Stevenage was a fuck up, pure and simple.
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Division three for me as well, for those who are too young to have any knowledge of it, that was humiliating.
That was awful, I was sent black edged cards from people whom I had never met but knew of me through friends/family. I have the minute we went down still in my head. At my Dad's pub, listening to the radio. I can't remember who we needed to lose to save us.
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We talk about in game management a lot these days, but I reckon Bradford was the worst example of it I’ve ever seen.
Absolute panic when all we needed to do was keep plugging away, the tie was only going to have one winner until the manager had an absolute brain fart.
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Division three for me as well, for those who are too young to have any knowledge of it, that was humiliating.
That was awful, I was sent black edged cards from people whom I had never met but knew of me through friends/family. I have the minute we went down still in my head. At my Dad's pub, listening to the radio. I can't remember who we needed to lose to save us.
We had finished our season with two home wins and out of the relegation places. The day after our final match we required Charlton to lose to Bristol City at The Valley.It was a Tuesday night. I can remember Alan Dicks, the Bristol manager, in the papers saying how they wanted the Villa to stay up and would be giving it their all at the end of a long season. I believed him, but I was only eleven! Charlton won 2-1 and finished with two points more than us. Age and disappointment plays a part but that moment of realisation felt way worse than the final whistle on Sunday for me.
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One that doesn't seem to have been mentioned, apologies if it has, but I was at the 0-0 home game against then 4th division Aldershot, my first ever FA Cup game. In true Villa style we managed to lose the replay 2-1 as well...grim days throughout the whole club back then.
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One that doesn't seem to have been mentioned, apologies if it has, but I was at the 0-0 home game against then 4th division Aldershot, my first ever FA Cup game. In true Villa style we managed to lose the replay 2-1 as well...grim days throughout the whole club back then.
Yes I mentioned that one, as my Dad always used to say that was the biggest embarrassment he could remember and in those days, there wasn't the idea of a reserve team taking part.
Chester in 1975 could have easily turned into a bad one, although Brian Little saved the day and we were made of sterner stuff!
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Definitely Bradford. From memory they were bobbling around midtable in Division 4 at the time and we had 180+ minutes to put them to the sword to make a major cup final.
The fact we didn't, and conceded 4 goals to them in the process, is the single biggest embarrassment in the club's history.
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Being relegated to the 3rd division is by far the biggest embarrassment, it's no contest. We were still considered one of the biggest clubs in the country, probably second biggest behind Man Utd. Imagine how humiliating would have been if we'd gone down to division 3 under RDM. Then multiply it for what it would have been like back then. Even allowing for state of the club back then and what it ultimately lead to.
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While not a contender for top spot, getting schooled at home by 3rd division Fulham in 1999 was pretty shite.
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While not a contender for top spot, getting schooled at home by 3rd division Fulham in 1999 was pretty shite.
When we were top of the Premier League
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While not a contender for top spot, getting schooled at home by 3rd division Fulham in 1999 was pretty shite.
When we were top of the Premier League
Compunded by Collymore not turning up and ending up in the Priory.
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And as for the idiots who sang 'Champions of Europe, you,ll never sing that' on Sunday. If not humiliating, it was embarrassing.
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While not a contender for top spot, getting schooled at home by 3rd division Fulham in 1999 was pretty shite.
When we were top of the Premier League
Compunded by Collymore not turning up and ending up in the Priory.
And then ending up at Fulham!
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Bradford for me. An absolute shambles on every level.
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While not a contender for top spot, getting schooled at home by 3rd division Fulham in 1999 was pretty shite.
When we were top of the Premier League
Compunded by Collymore not turning up and ending up in the Priory.
And then ending up at Fulham!
Everything went to shit that season after that match
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Goes back to Aldershot 1964, 0-0 home draw , Tony Hateley missed a pen, lost replay 2-1