Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: dave.woodhall on October 18, 2022, 06:04:09 PM

Title: Plans, projects and performance
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 18, 2022, 06:04:09 PM
What I've been ranting about for days.

https://heroesandvillains.info/2022/10/18/plans-projects-and-performance/
Title: Re: Plans, projects and performance
Post by: Risso on October 18, 2022, 06:08:02 PM
What I've been ranting about for days.

https://heroesandvillains.info/2022/10/18/plans-projects-and-performance/

Good article.

Liked the Joy Division suggestion, and the first line of Love Will Tear Us Apart goes "When routine bites hard, and ambitions are low" which would seem to be very apt.
Title: Re: Plans, projects and performance
Post by: dicedlam on October 18, 2022, 06:17:28 PM
Absolutely spot on.

A seventeen year project and counting...
Title: Re: Plans, projects and performance
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 18, 2022, 06:24:44 PM
On board with all that.
Title: Re: Plans, projects and performance
Post by: Drummond on October 18, 2022, 06:26:52 PM
Good summary Dave.

Just a small typo in the sixth para, should be now not bow.
Title: Re: Plans, projects and performance
Post by: villadelph on October 18, 2022, 06:31:57 PM
Great work, the fifth and final paragraphs sum things up nicely.

Well done
Title: Re: Plans, projects and performance
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 18, 2022, 06:32:12 PM
Good summary Dave.

Just a small typo in the sixth para, should be now not bow.

Sorted, ta. I had to do it on a Chromebook so typing was a bit awkward.
Title: Re: Plans, projects and performance
Post by: Rigadon on October 18, 2022, 07:18:44 PM
I feel very much the same.  We are at another crossroads. 
Title: Re: Plans, projects and performance
Post by: eamonn on October 18, 2022, 07:53:10 PM
Starkly laid-out in miserable terms.


*We also have had an FA Cup final appearance in the last decade
Title: Re: Plans, projects and performance
Post by: Jon Crofts on October 18, 2022, 07:54:04 PM
I feel very much the same.  We are at another crossroads. 

We’ve been at this crossroads for the past 40 years.
Title: Re: Plans, projects and performance
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 18, 2022, 07:57:50 PM
Starkly laid-out in miserable terms.


*We also have had an FA Cup final appearance in the last decade


I was thinking about the new owners but I've edited it now.
Title: Re: Plans, projects and performance
Post by: Beard82 on October 18, 2022, 08:00:28 PM
nail on the head - exactly where I am sadly
Title: Re: Plans, projects and performance
Post by: Legion on October 18, 2022, 08:31:43 PM
Done.
Title: Re: Plans, projects and performance
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 18, 2022, 08:42:39 PM
Can't argue with a word of it.

If you consider that the Manager is the most important person at the club, we're not very good at appointing the right man. It doesn't help that after appointing another poor manager we wait until we have one foot in the grave before sacking him. We're then not as appealing as we should be, no half decent coach will consider the task and we end up with a shortlist of has-beens, chancers and unqualified. It's an endless cycle and so bloody predictable. Make it bloody stop.
Title: Re: Plans, projects and performance
Post by: N'ZMAV on October 18, 2022, 08:56:29 PM
fair article - it's a shit show.
Title: Re: Plans, projects and performance
Post by: Nunkin1965 on October 18, 2022, 09:09:10 PM
A great piece Dave.
Our football club is in a genuinely unique position for us in that we are now owned by people with huge financial standing.
Now it's up to them how far this goes and potentially we can reach higher than we ever have but as far as I'm concerned we've talked the talk and thats it.

Title: Re: Plans, projects and performance
Post by: LeonW on October 18, 2022, 09:10:34 PM
The longer this situation goes on, the more you have to question NSWE level of interest or grasp of things. With Edens in particular having a track record of successfully managing a sporting entity, it can't see that it's purely a case of delegating to Purslow and taking all relevant and pertinent information from him or Lange on recruitment.

Our current problems are definitely structural; Purslow should have zero involvement whatsoever in any football matters but this is clearly not the case when he's involved heavily in managerial appointments and signing players. This impacted the appointment and subsequent management of Gerrard, who either was appointed without showing a clearly defined way of managing our summer acquisitions of 2021 or has just refused to. Purslow's statement about not even having considered replacing Gerrard when asked is not just a red flag; it's indicative of the situation.

For the good of the club, both Gerrard and Purslow have to be removed from post and Lange's role reviewed.

This is the second (and more important) challenge that faces NSWE. They lost Grealish and now have to demonstrate to a fanbase that are familiar with being misled about a jam tomorrow, that they can sort this mess out and demonstrate the reality of their ambition.
Title: Re: Plans, projects and performance
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 18, 2022, 09:59:13 PM
The owners have to ask what the fuck has happened.The dilemma they should have is who do they sack first.
Title: Re: Plans, projects and performance
Post by: Mister E on October 18, 2022, 10:33:01 PM
Your last paragraph ("Then there are the owners. They’ve put a lot of money in, and for that we should be grateful, although the buck has to stop with them. It’s their club and if they want the praise for what they’ve done then they should also take criticism for what they haven’t. We’re now into the fifth season since that glorious day in summer 2019 when we realised that we’d won the New Owner Lottery. I really thought that by now, if we were trying to attract a new manager we’d be offering him something a bit more tangible than a project.") sums it up perfectly.
The next few days will clarify where we go next, I guess.
Title: Re: Plans, projects and performance
Post by: Smirker on October 18, 2022, 11:30:32 PM
The owners have to ask what the fuck has happened.The dilemma they should have is who do they sack first.

Its not THAT bad. We're an established PL club. Progress hasn't been as quick as we'd like since we came up but we're in a miles better position now.
Title: Re: Plans, projects and performance
Post by: Legion on October 18, 2022, 11:46:53 PM
We're teetering on the brink due to the appointment of Gerrard.
Title: Re: Plans, projects and performance
Post by: LeonW on October 18, 2022, 11:53:59 PM
The owners have to ask what the fuck has happened.The dilemma they should have is who do they sack first.

Its not THAT bad. We're an established PL club. Progress hasn't been as quick as we'd like since we came up but we're in a miles better position now.

We’re averaging less than a goal and a point a game this season, with a number of presentable fixtures gone. Our XG both in creating opportunities and conceding from shots faced is terrible. Yet our wage spend is the 7th highest in the league and our manager thinks we should be getting thrashed by Chelsea at VP. He was appointed because of his name and his relationship with our current CEO because if he’d been managing Rangers for 3 years and his name was Stephan Henchoz or Diji Traore, he’d be getting not a sniff of the VP job. We were in a decent position for a new manager to come in and replace Smith thanks to the good work he’d done but as a result of Purslow-nomics, that’s been set fire to, yet he hasn’t considered replacing Gerrard apparently. We’re saddled with higher wages on depreciating assets as we’ve increased the age profile of the squad, are in a relegation battle and at the same time, expanding the stadium and infrastructure. And yet no moves (seemingly) are being made to address a situation that stretches back across the entirety of 2022, when we’ve won, what, 5 games against current Premier League teams in that period and we’re almost in November? Are we going to wait until the World Cup before making a change when the situation could be dire? It’s a toxic combination because manager, likely some coaching staff and CEO need to go at a hefty cost and if we went down at this point it could well be peak Villa. I think we’re not in great shape, particularly if our owners have lost interest. So i’m struggling to feel positive at the minute.
Title: Re: Plans, projects and performance
Post by: purpletrousers on October 19, 2022, 12:53:01 AM
Your last paragraph ("Then there are the owners. They’ve put a lot of money in, and for that we should be grateful, although the buck has to stop with them. It’s their club and if they want the praise for what they’ve done then they should also take criticism for what they haven’t. We’re now into the fifth season since that glorious day in summer 2019 when we realised that we’d won the New Owner Lottery. I really thought that by now, if we were trying to attract a new manager we’d be offering him something a bit more tangible than a project.") sums it up perfectly.
The next few days will clarify where we go next, I guess.


Agreed.
Though
19/20
20/21
21/22
22/23

We are mid 4th season since coming back up rather than 5th?
Title: Re: Plans, projects and performance
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 19, 2022, 01:03:57 AM
Typo. Should have been 2018.
Title: Re: Plans, projects and performance
Post by: Rory on October 19, 2022, 01:16:23 AM
Typo. Should have been 2018.

Some of us gave you the benefit of the doubt that you were referring to when we got completely rid of the shyster Xia. The pretence for the first ten months was, after all, that shit-shoes was still relevant.
Title: Re: Plans, projects and performance
Post by: Scott Nielsen on October 19, 2022, 02:39:09 AM
Great article, Dave.
Title: Re: Plans, projects and performance
Post by: purpletrousers on October 19, 2022, 06:18:48 AM
Typo. Should have been 2018.

Some of us gave you the benefit of the doubt that you were referring to when we got completely rid of the shyster Xia. The pretence for the first ten months was, after all, that shit-shoes was still relevant.

Ah yes. I didn’t even read properly I was focussed on the emotional 2019 day out in the sun, which was a fab day, but I know Dave well enough not to be still glorying in finishing 5th/7 points behind Leeds in 3rd.

Thinking about it all again takes me back to how successful Dean was, just how quickly. Of course supercharged by a once in a generation talent but he was able to utilise that and build around it in a way another didn’t.

Pedantry aside, Dave you tell it like it is. Maybe, just maybe, we’ll make a big move, and in a couple of years time we won’t be talking about a challenging project for someone to relish. I’m going to have faith our owners still mean business and aren’t willing to give up on how much they’ve invested thus far. It is possible. Let it be so.
Title: Re: Plans, projects and performance
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 19, 2022, 07:51:19 AM
The owners have to ask what the fuck has happened.The dilemma they should have is who do they sack first.

Its not THAT bad. We're an established PL club. Progress hasn't been as quick as we'd like since we came up but we're in a miles better position now.

We’re averaging less than a goal and a point a game this season, with a number of presentable fixtures gone. Our XG both in creating opportunities and conceding from shots faced is terrible. Yet our wage spend is the 7th highest in the league and our manager thinks we should be getting thrashed by Chelsea at VP. He was appointed because of his name and his relationship with our current CEO because if he’d been managing Rangers for 3 years and his name was Stephan Henchoz or Diji Traore, he’d be getting not a sniff of the VP job. We were in a decent position for a new manager to come in and replace Smith thanks to the good work he’d done but as a result of Purslow-nomics, that’s been set fire to, yet he hasn’t considered replacing Gerrard apparently. We’re saddled with higher wages on depreciating assets as we’ve increased the age profile of the squad, are in a relegation battle and at the same time, expanding the stadium and infrastructure. And yet no moves (seemingly) are being made to address a situation that stretches back across the entirety of 2022, when we’ve won, what, 5 games against current Premier League teams in that period and we’re almost in November? Are we going to wait until the World Cup before making a change when the situation could be dire? It’s a toxic combination because manager, likely some coaching staff and CEO need to go at a hefty cost and if we went down at this point it could well be peak Villa. I think we’re not in great shape, particularly if our owners have lost interest. So i’m struggling to feel positive at the minute.
Exactly Lyon, the decisions that have set this state of affairs in motion is down to Purslow. The owners now have to start making decisions and good ones.
Title: Re: Plans, projects and performance
Post by: Villan For Life on October 19, 2022, 08:23:54 AM
What a depressing read!  Why do we keep getting it so wrong?

I feel such a disconnection from the club right now, I really can’t summon anything to overcome my apathy towards AVFC. I’ve felt like this before but Dean Smith reinvigorated the club and the fan base. With the ego in charge and a seemingly inept CEO we really need the owners to shake the whole shit show up with two high profile dismissals and two even more high profile appointments, the kind of people who “get” the Villa in the same way that Dean and Sir Graham did.
Title: Re: Plans, projects and performance
Post by: Risso on October 19, 2022, 10:22:24 AM
Us, Wolves and Leicester have shown this season that if you don't invest enough in the playing side, you fall behind.
Title: Re: Plans, projects and performance
Post by: LeeB on October 19, 2022, 10:31:48 AM
Us, Wolves and Leicester have shown this season that if you don't invest enough in the playing side, you fall behind.

Bournemouth appear to be bucking that trend, and Palace can't be accused of largesse
Title: Re: Plans, projects and performance
Post by: boozey182 on October 19, 2022, 10:49:36 AM
Us, Wolves and Leicester have shown this season that if you don't invest enough in the playing side, you fall behind.

Bournemouth appear to be bucking that trend, and Palace can't be accused of largesse

We spent the 14th most in the league over the summer, so we are underperforming slightly on that metric. In terms of net spend we spent the 13th most, although Man City and Liverpool are both below us there and I don't think that anyone would reasonably expect us to finish above them as they are starting from a much higher position than us.

By the same token, though, we were starting from a much higher position than Bournemouth, Fulham and Leeds, who have all spent similar amounts to us and find themselves higher in the table (Bournemouth and Fulham spent less money and Leeds had a negative net spend).

Whichever way you look at it, the team has been underperforming. Gerrard, Lange, Purslow and the owners all need to take responsibility for that and do something about it.

It's a great article Dave - I really hope some of the people involved get to read it.
Title: Re: Plans, projects and performance
Post by: Brend'Watkins on October 19, 2022, 11:02:46 AM
Can't disagree with any of the article, it's very good.  As others have said, the owners need to act.  They have gambled once and it hasn't worked.  Time to get in someone who is a proven top flight manager.
Title: Re: Plans, projects and performance
Post by: darren woolley on October 19, 2022, 12:35:52 PM
What a great read Dave it's spot on.
Title: Re: Plans, projects and performance
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 19, 2022, 12:39:55 PM
What a great read Dave it's spot on.

Thanks Daz. Glad you like it.
Title: Re: Plans, projects and performance
Post by: MplsVilla on October 19, 2022, 05:54:53 PM
It's a great article and sums up where we are and how we feel. 18 months ago I thought we'd be challenging for a European spot, not hoping to avoid a relegation battle. I cannot understand how we have not finished in the top half of the top division since 2011.
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