Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: KnowRivalryJR on August 30, 2022, 02:30:37 PM
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Hi, Villa fans!
Loughborough University is collaborating with UMass on the Know Rivalry project, an international study on sports rivalry.
Although we have some suspicions on who might take the top spot for you... it would be fantastic if you could take 5 minutes to fill out the survey and give us your thoughts on who is your club's biggest rivals: https://umassamherst.co1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_3FdJ8eN2EgFCfCB?collID=10&grpID=1336
Previous results in the US have been featured in numerous sports media outlets, including the Wall Street Journal and New York Times. You can view those results, links to media coverage, and learn more about us at our KnowRivalry.com website
Please share this with any fans that may also want to help!
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Thanks for asking first if you minded us helping you with your homework.
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Billy Smart's Circus
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Billy Smart's Circus
Billy Graham's?
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Fred Karno
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1 - Blues
2 - Rest of the teams in west mids
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Sometimes we are our own worst enemy, if that helps.
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Sometimes we are our own worst enemy, if that helps.
Sometimes?
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1 - Blues
2 - Rest of the teams in west mids
1) Rags 80%
2) Bitters 18%
3) Wolves 1%
4 Cov 1%
was how I split it based on last 45 years
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Sometimes we are our own worst enemy, if that helps.
Sometimes?
I'm not from Bedrock. :)
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1 - Blues
2 - Rest of the teams in west mids
Blues have never rivalled us, they share the same city but that's it.
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Star City. I usually park there before a match and sometimes feel that I should stay there rather than go to the match.
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1 - Blues
2 - Rest of the teams in west mids
You don't really mean that John, do you? These teams are not our rivals they are just a nuisance to be swatted away from time to time.
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VillaTalk.
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VillaTalk.
Very good !
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Just Bayern Munich and Barcelona - we seem to have pissed them off somewhere down the Line.
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TBAR is our SHA.
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Sometimes we are our own worst enemy, if that helps.
Hopefully, last weekend's performance might have made you rethink this and then you can take the survey with a more positive outlook!
(although thinking about it you may just replace the word we with VAR)
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1 - Blues
2 - Rest of the teams in west mids
1) Rags 80%
2) Bitters 18%
3) Wolves 1%
4 Cov 1%
was how I split it based on last 45 years
Thanks for this input it's super interesting to see how you divide teams up and I hope you enjoyed the points-based breakdown feature in the survey!
Please do pass it on to any other fans of Villa (or other clubs) who may be interested in :)
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That breakdown really depends on where you're from in the West Mids. For those of us in most of Brum it is the rags, sorry Blues, but if you're from the north west of the city or the black country then those figures will look very different. For example, the emnity held for West Brom from the editor of this fanzine is a thing to behold, and has produced some of the finest prose ever seen.
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Blues are rivals in terms of local bragging rights etc, but I've long stopped considering them as rivals in a sporting context.
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None. We are peerless.
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You'd have to be nearly 30 to even vaguely remember Villa playing Coventry, so I guess that's one rivalry that's dying out.
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The fucking Right Side.
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Not sure which is easiest...to name the sides we hate or to name the sides that hate us. Not all are local in either column.
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The 70’s was definitely blues.
In fairness they had a decent team in the 70’s too.
They were above us early on as we started the 70’s in Div 3
By the mid 70’s we’d caught up and started to move ahead by the end of the decade.
The 80’s arrived and I don’t think we’ve looked back.
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TBAR is our SHA.
Is that still going?
1/ Birmingham City
2/ West Bromwich Albion
3/ Wolverhampton wundras
4/ Coventry City
5/ Coronation Street
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Owls……..or Gibbons
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Blues and whoever is in the top flight from the West Midlands this season.
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TBAR is our SHA.
Is that still going?
1/ Birmingham City
2/ West Bromwich Albion
3/ Wolverhampton wundras
4/ Coventry City
5/ Coronation Street
What have Weathy County ever done to offend?
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According to their fans
Newcastle
Everton
Bristol City
Wolves
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Everton don't care that much about us, do they? I'd say Leeds have more of a chip on their shoulder. Which is weird because it seems to stem from the Bielsa goal game, when (i) the only person that did anything wrong was that cheat Bamford and (ii) it was a meaningless end of season kickaround anyway.
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According to their fans
Newcastle
Everton
Bristol City
Wolves
Newcastle - whether it’s Ant or Dec, it’s time to put that to bed. We didn’t relegate you, the results across the rest of the season did.
Everton - why? Two very similar clubs in many ways. I don’t view them as rivals, they should focus their ire elsewhere.
Bristol City - why? I’ve always found this faux rivalry to be quite funny. Did we mug them with Kodjia?
Wolves - truly pathetic. Try as you might you cannot invent a rivalry that just isn’t there. An insignificant club in an insignifiant suburb of Tipton ( I live in Wolverhampton and that always winds the locals up).
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I suppose the key is to how are you interpretative the word rivals
I look at rivals as being local rivals rather than sporting rivals
It really doesn’t matter how long we’ve gone without playing a Local rival when it comes along it’s a big deal
None more so than our games against blues when they happen they’re the biggest games going for us whether we like it or not
We equalised against Man City last Saturday And one of the first things we sang was about blues
The fact that people don’t like it is irrelevant it happened
Why ? Because they’re are biggest rivals not in a sporting sense but in a local rival a sense
And there’s really no point trying to deny it
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I agree John. It may be Everton see us as their most direct competitors and I'd say that's probably correct. The similarity between the clubs is why I like them, not hate them.
The Newcastle thing is pathetic, but again for a short period at least we are probably their most direct competitor, as a wealthy club hoping to disrupt the current order.
Right now I'd say our closest sporting rivals are West Ham, Newcastle and Everton - the latter not so much on form, but on size, history and potential. Leeds could well be one too if they can get their house in order.
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According to their fans
Newcastle
Everton
Bristol City
Wolves
Is that Twitter fans or real people?
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First I've ever heard of a rivalry with Bristol City. Why?
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First I've ever heard of a rivalry with Bristol City. Why?
Something to do with thir manager at the time being a moaning arsehole?
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Growing up in the mid 60,s and 70,s I only ever saw the Blues as Rivals
Same town, both had ups and lots of downs, played against each other regularly, both well supported. Banter at school, college, and fisticuffs in town.
Albion and others in west midlands were a novelty when us superior beings played them, never Rivals.
I doubt anyone outside of Birmingham saw us as Rivals , maybe a couple of seasons enmity but never long term Rivals
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1 - Blues
2 - Rest of the teams in west mids
You don't really mean that John, do you? These teams are not our rivals they are just a nuisance to be swatted away from time to time.
Blues obviously are number one, but I think that if you come from a certain area of Birmingham (North West part particularly), the rivalry with Albion is a very real one. Traditionally don't get many Blues fans around there, so it is mainly Villa and some Albion and coming from that area there is certainly no love lost.
Villa fans in other areas of Birmingham and beyond might not encounter too many Albion fans, but the ones from that area are just as obsessed with us as Blues fans are. They also do it in a snidey way which makes them even more unlikeable. When we beat them twice in a week a few seasons ago, it was brilliant to just watch the implosion over the various social media channels.
So for me, Blues are obviously number one, but Albion are definitely more of a rival than the other Midlands clubs.
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Aardvark.
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My Dad hates Albion far more intensely than he hates Blose, despite growing up as a Villa fan in Small Heath of all places.
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A very similar study was done a few years back (from memory, Dr Rogan Taylor at Liverpool Uni) which asked the same question but in the conclusions highlighted non-reciprocated rivalries. For example, Coventry considering us as their main rival whereas they came about 435th on ours. Man Utd were top rivals for many NW clubs when their fans couldn't give a flying fig about Rochdale, Stockport, Manchester City and so forth. That was the interesting bit for me...
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According to their fans
Newcastle
Everton
Bristol City
Wolves
Is that Twitter fans or real people?
I am not on Twitter. These are the ones that appear to have an irrational dislike of us.
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I didn't really see Small Heath as rivals growing up. They were in a different division, we never played eachother, and I only knew one Blues fan and he was alright (though we never talked about football - I assumed he just didn't like it, it was only in the last year of secondary school that I found out he supported Small Heath ... so I guess I was right, and he didn't like football). In honesty, it must've only been about 7 or 8 when I found out there was another football club in Birmingham! I remember being quite surprised by it anyway.
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A very similar study was done a few years back (from memory, Dr Rogan Taylor at Liverpool Uni) which asked the same question but in the conclusions highlighted non-reciprocated rivalries. For example, Coventry considering us as their main rival whereas they came about 435th on ours. Man Utd were top rivals for many NW clubs when their fans couldn't give a flying fig about Rochdale, Stockport, Manchester City and so forth. That was the interesting bit for me...
You should post more, best username on this site by miles.
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In recent seasons, a rivalry between Leeds and Villa has emerged, and there is a lot of hostility toward some of our players, particularly Mings and the former hero Grealish (and it continues). both in-staduim and online
Alsi there are the unflattering social media exchanges between supporters of various clubs.
Those Leeds lot are some of the worst though and not very nice when they bait Villa.
I'm not aware of any previous historical rivalry.
However, Villa Leeds is a very real thing. In the digital, online age, perhaps even more so.
How do people feel about the rivalry between Villa and Leeds?
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In recent seasons, a rivalry between Leeds and Villa has emerged, and there is a lot of hostility toward some of our players, particularly Mings and the former hero Grealish (and it continues). both in-staduim and online
Alsi there are the unflattering social media exchanges between supporters of various clubs.
Those Leeds lot are some of the worst though and not very nice when they bait Villa.
I'm not aware of any previous historical rivalry.
However, Villa Leeds is a very real thing. In the digital, online age, perhaps even more so.
How do people feel about the rivalry between Villa and Leeds?
what rivalry
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It reminds me of the 'sob on the Tyne' thing with Newcastle. Everyone hates them, but we're the only ones to be honest about it and they think it's some sort of one-on-one vendetta.
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Who gives a fuck about Leeds?
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There's a lot of rivalling online between Villa and Leeds.
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Oh god, not the twitter kiddies.
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Who gives a fuck about Leeds?
Personally I actually don't, but I notice a lot of the *ahem* slightly more seasoned contingent on here burst gaskets whenever the fixture rolls round.
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Oh god, not the twitter kiddies.
Oh yes very much so.
It's unreapeatable.
Think still have issues with affording us a goal at Elland Road. Plus how it was their biggest league game for years when we dropped down to the championship so feel they have a jealousy about us being a proper traditional club of far long standing and success than them.
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Who gives a fuck about Leeds?
Personally I actually don't, but I notice a lot of the *ahem* slightly more seasoned contingent on here burst gaskets whenever the fixture rolls round.
Thats not really about Villa - Leeds rivalry, though, it's about Leeds being reprehensible, vile and dirty - one of the few things that unites all football supporters.
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Does the Leeds thing come from the fact of all the sleeping Giants, we like to think we are the most "awake"?
We think were still a big club - but to the rest of the world we are a bit like Everton, Leeds, Notts Forest etc. A once very big club - now a club with a big fan base versus their success over the last 20 years?
For me, I hate the London clubs cos I lived in Essex and for a number of years - and at that time Villa were of a similar to Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs etc so there was lots of Bants as the kids call it.
Now were leagues behind them. Spurs are the worst, because they are only called big by default. Oh and Arsenal, who's fans are always arrogent. And Chelsea, who fans are vile.
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Guna be propa fackin' nawty
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The fucking Right Side.
I was Right Side you Left Side wanker.
Bet you were Swap Shop as well.
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In recent seasons, a rivalry between Leeds and Villa has emerged, and there is a lot of hostility toward some of our players, particularly Mings and the former hero Grealish (and it continues). both in-staduim and online
Alsi there are the unflattering social media exchanges between supporters of various clubs.
Those Leeds lot are some of the worst though and not very nice when they bait Villa.
I'm not aware of any previous historical rivalry.
However, Villa Leeds is a very real thing. In the digital, online age, perhaps even more so.
How do people feel about the rivalry between Villa and Leeds?
I couldn't give two shits about Leeds unless we play them. They are just another gobshite Northern team who rank below Coventry City on my overall radar. A team I don't give one shit about.
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Man U and then Liverpool. We ve been behind for decades but still. It s my feelings about it.
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Only historical incident I can think of between Villa and Leeds was the beer* fight at the Green Man near Wembley before the 1996 League Cup Final.
*The beer was still in the bottles.
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I don't feel like we have any in terms of direct competition from locals.
Blues and Baggies will feel its them but they're too shit for me to feel the same. It's like Barcelona and Espanyol. So one sided you just think what is the point? We're a Rottweiler and they are little Chihuahuas trying to start fights with us.
For me it's the Sky 6. I don't give a shit about anyone else really. But I absolutely seethe at the Sky 6.
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I grew up in South Brum so literally never met an Albion fan, they had about as much relevance as Wolves, ie none. It's always been Blues I loathe.
Obviously, that doesn't mean i don't join in with the entire ground singing Fuck The Albion when we play them, but they just don't matter to me anywhere near as much as posters from the other side of the city.
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Wolves are clearly the second team of the region. Blues are strange little malcontents, hating us is kind of their raison d'etre.
But I'm with Smirker, I only really hate the aristocratic clubs, and even then not at all equally, but in direct order of how much I think they're responsible for destroying the game.
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Growing up near Solihull in the 80s and 90s Blues were the team I hated, even though we hardly every payed them - mainly due to a minority of mates at school supporting them. Whilst I still can't stand them (mainly because of a hatred for us being their primary reason for existing), I increasingly despise fans of the 'big 6 etc.' more than any of our local rivals. Although I feel a bit sick saying it, I have a lot more respect for fans of Blues and Albion than Brummie Reds etc.
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I hate all other clubs, this stops me from joining Fantasy Leagues, betting on football and enjoying the game in any way at all if we are not doing well. That said, apart from perhaps MKD, I wouldn't like to see any of them go bust.
But the Rags are a special case, were they to vanish I would be delighted, they only prevail because we do. Any measure of their scummy little club has to be compared to ours, everything is seen through a prism of hatred for us. Their twisted view of following a football club appears almost unique, from their owners through the players to their indolent, violent supporters it's all about us. From ridiculous statements, footballs signed with SOTV, and professional players making obscene gestures to us and wearing obscene t shirts about us, to "that" diary, various fantasies about support and shouting at a shop window, the end of their presence in the football world would be mourned by very few, and certainly not by me.
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Only historical incident I can think of between Villa and Leeds was the beer* fight at the Green Man near Wembley before the 1996 League Cup Final.
*The beer was still in the bottles.
I wasn't at the Green Man, but around the ground I felt that day was pretty good natured, with some decent banter and lots of mutual dislike of Man Utd.
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I hate all other clubs,
This.
May as well close the thread now, tbh.
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Personally.
Tier 1 - SHA
Tier 2 - Wolves & WBA
Tier 3 - The rest.
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Only historical incident I can think of between Villa and Leeds was the beer* fight at the Green Man near Wembley before the 1996 League Cup Final.
*The beer was still in the bottles.
I wasn't at the Green Man, but around the ground I felt that day was pretty good natured, with some decent banter and lots of mutual dislike of Man Utd.
We were out and about in London the night before the Leeds final and everywhere was crawling with Leeds fans who were enjoying their first big final for a while. A bit like we were 2 years earlier. We were lucky to get out of one pub in Camden unscathed, being the only Villa fans in the place.
I hate every club we play - while we’re playing them - but it’s Albion and Blues who I really don’t like. My WhatsApp messages last Sunday night only confirmed that.
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Having grown up in North Yorkshire, after moving from Brum when I was 9, Leeds were the local team. So I hate them.
I also hate Liverpool, because that was the gloryhunter's team of choice back then. ManUtd attract such a bunch of knobs that anyone that has a soft spot for them needs sorting.
As for the rest, I don't care. Many see themselves as rivals I think, but to me they are also-rans. Newcastle, Leeds, Everton and Tottenham all like to think they are as big. But for various reasons they aren't (Everton aren't even the biggest in their own city FFS).
Having been in Sheffield for nearly 20 years now I have a soft spot for the Blades as the nearest ground to home (less than a mile) and in-laws. But don't really care how they do.
As for the other Midlands clubs, I like the atmosphere of matchday, I like that we have the biggest and best of everything, but I really hate the fact we've won fuck all for such a long, long time.
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Local Rivalry - Blues, West Brom, Wolves
Sporting Rivals - closest clubs to us in stature are Newcastle, Everton, Leeds & Spurs
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There is no rivalry with either Leeds or
Newcastle just a load of shitposting and bantz on social media whenever the fixtures come around. I used to hate the amount of media everyone’s 2nd club, Kevin Keegan, Geordie Nation jizz about Newcastle back in the day as yet again they won fuck all but realised most Newcastle fans were as sick of it as the rest of us.
I’m with others in that I pretty much don’t like any other club, will make exceptions if I think they deserve it.
All that said I have a particular completely unjustified loathing of Wimbledon from the late 80s and early 90s which hasn’t faded in the last 30 odd years. I’m one of the few people who hope MK Dons thrive as a lower division club because I know how much it pisses off Wimbledon fans. Petty, yes but still makes me smile.
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Environment makes a big difference. I never liked Juve, but since moving here they've climbed a billion rungs on my Ladder of Hate.
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Local Rivalry - Blues, West Brom, Wolves
Sporting Rivals - closest clubs to us in stature are Newcastle, Everton, Leeds & Spurs
Leeds and Spurs don't deserve to be grouped in with us.
If Spurs were from any other city than London they wouldn't be as high profile as they are. The idea that they are Big 6 is preposterous. They're London's version of Wolves/West Brom.
Two league titles ;D
And Leeds aren't any bigger.
Just my (factual) opinion 8)
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Local Rivalry - Blues, West Brom, Wolves
Sporting Rivals - closest clubs to us in stature are Newcastle, Everton, Leeds & Spurs
Leeds and Spurs don't deserve to be grouped in with us.
If Spurs were from any other city than London they wouldn't be as high profile as they are. The idea that they are Big 6 is preposterous. They're London's version of Wolves/West Brom.
Two league titles ;D
And Leeds aren't any bigger.
Just my (factual) opinion 8)
Prior to our decade of downfall, Spuds had finished above us in the table about 3 times in about 25 years. I don't know the exact numbers, but I think its around those. The fact that they are labelled one of the so called media favourite "big six" is an absolute farce. And Spuds fans are wankers...
(Is that OK Bob? Am I allowed to have a little playful banter?)
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Blues obviously. The absolute toss they make up about us. The other day they were posting the video Percy and others did singing on the Holte steps. The usual bollocks about not a Brummie amongst them etc etc but the thing one guy claimed was there wasn't a person of colour amongst them hence you could tell they were all from the shires. Absolute toss. You only have to look at our crowds on the telly the other night to see what a rich mix of cultures and ethnicity we have.
Never been a fan of Man United but Chelsea are the other one that piss me off. Irrelevant and poorly supported for decades and now firmly established as if they've always been a super power.
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Villa Leeds, when it comes around, is definitely rivalous be plenty between fans tonight whatever happens and that to me smacks of rivals.
Its a recent thing but lets not deny the animosity this tie seems to bring
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No they are not.
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Leeds are only rivals when we play them, other than that, I couldn't give a fuck about them
We have one rival, it's them tramps in blue.
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Villa Leeds, when it comes around, is definitely rivalous be plenty between fans tonight whatever happens and that to me smacks of rivals.
Its a recent thing but lets not deny the animosity this tie seems to bring
It is not a recent thing. Dirty Leeds has been a 'thing'' since the 1970's, so please do not make assumptions on our behalf.
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The Tories
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Blues obviously. The absolute toss they make up about us. The other day they were posting the video Percy and others did singing on the Holte steps. The usual bollocks about not a Brummie amongst them etc etc but the thing one guy claimed was there wasn't a person of colour amongst them hence you could tell they were all from the shires. Absolute toss. You only have to look at our crowds on the telly the other night to see what a rich mix of cultures and ethnicity we have.
Never been a fan of Man United but Chelsea are the other one that piss me off. Irrelevant and poorly supported for decades and now firmly established as if they've always been a super power.
mate said they were right racist b***tards in the early days and he supports them
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Think traditionally well in the 70s anyway our opinion of all things Manure were not favourable. Some people hated them more than Blues. The dislike for Albion was bigger as well up to when they went walkies from the top division in the 1980s.
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Local Rivalry - Blues, West Brom, Wolves
Sporting Rivals - closest clubs to us in stature are Newcastle, Everton, Leeds & Spurs
Leeds and Spurs don't deserve to be grouped in with us.
If Spurs were from any other city than London they wouldn't be as high profile as they are. The idea that they are Big 6 is preposterous. They're London's version of Wolves/West Brom.
Two league titles ;D
And Leeds aren't any bigger.
Just my (factual) opinion 8)
Spurs’ last league title was closer to the reign of Queen Victoria than today.
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Leeds fans seem to have decided we’re their biggest rivals, for what reason I’m not sure. If I could block their number I would.
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Leeds fans seem to have decided we’re their biggest rivals, for what reason I’m not sure. If I could block their number I would.
2nd biggest - biggest are Leeds Rugby League club. Without them being in the same city Leeds would have 98000 fans every week and have won the Champions League at least once a decade since the 60s. At least
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I hate these one club town freaks like Leeds and Newcastle, they're like homeschooling weirdo's that haven't learned to interact socially
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I hate these one club town freaks like Leeds and Newcastle, they're like homeschooling weirdo's that haven't learned to interact socially
The Dogheads should count themselves lucky that although total Neanderthals they live close enough to Football Cvilisation with a superior alternative and a couple of others
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I hate these one club town freaks like Leeds and Newcastle, they're like homeschooling weirdo's that haven't learned to interact socially
The Dogheads should count themselves lucky that although total Neanderthals they live close enough to Football Cvilisation with a superior alternative and a couple of others
Their relevance is multiplied by sheer proximity to us. Another 10 miles west and they'd be like Shrewsbury.
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When did it become unfashionable to just hate everyone but Villa.
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For our Final few matches of this season Brighton and Spurs.
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Liverpool and Brighton.
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Referees and linesmen.