Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Risso on March 21, 2022, 11:35:51 AM
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So after what is looking like a second successive season of a mid-table finish, which players would you keep, and who do you think needs replacing? I'm really talking about the senior players but include the kids if you like.
For me in the "keep" column:
Martinez
Cash
Digne
Mings
Konsa
Chambers
Ramsey
Coutinho
Buendia
Nakamba
Ings
Let go/replace:
Young
McGinn
Luiz
Bailey
Sanson
Traore
Watkins
I'd only hang on to Ings as I don't think they'd get rid of Watkins and Ings at the same time, and I'd actually like Sanson to be given a chance, but if he can't get a start ahead of McGinn and Luiz at the moment, then he never will.
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I wouldn't put McGinn in there - I think he's struggling in the current formation right now, but that could change dramatically with a proper DM behind him. I think it's too early to dismiss Bailey and Sanson, but I'd be happy to see an upgrade on the others. Or rather, I'd like to see better players come in, and see those players moved to the bench/squad.
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I could see us going big for a DM and centre-forward in the summer, but assuming we sign Phil, I don't see us undertaking major squad surgery unless Gerrard is determined to shift some of those players.
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I think Bailey and Sanson (especially) deserve more of a chance.
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If we can get c.£75m for Luiz and McGinn (probably fanciful), sell.
Give Sanson a run between now and May and make a decision based on his performances. Get a physical phucker in the middle who can also play.
Replace one of Watkins/Ings for someone who can hold the ball-up and finish.
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Sell SJM? Some of you are crazy. Honestly, we would regret that. He seems to have become the latest scapegoat. With a proper DM behind him he would flourish.
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I think Bailey and Sanson (especially) deserve more of a chance.
I know he's not been here long, and in saying this he'll probably turn into prime Ronaldo, but I just don't get it with Bailey. He looks like a player with a few tricks in his locker and bugger all else. Most disappointing signing compared to his reputation in ages. I too think Sanson should get a chance but don't think he will.
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Sell SJM? Some of you are crazy. Honestly, we would regret that. He seems to have become the latest scapegoat. With a proper DM behind him he would flourish.
He isn't a scapegoat, he just isn't playing very well. He doesn't do nearly enough, and he looks well overweight which is unforgivable. What in his time here makes him so undroppable/unsellable?
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He reminds me of (Adama) Traore. Who is still at best inconsistent.
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From that list, Young, Luiz and Traore would go. Also AEG and Trezeguet on permanent deals (though of them I'd say that Trez probably fits Gerrard's system better as a right-sided midfielder tracking back to the right back position).
With Hickey, Phillips, Bissouma and Abraham to come in to replace them.
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With Hickey, Phillips, Bissouma and Abraham to come in to replace them.
That would do me quite nicely.
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Sell SJM? Some of you are crazy. Honestly, we would regret that. He seems to have become the latest scapegoat. With a proper DM behind him he would flourish.
He isn't a scapegoat, he just isn't playing very well. He doesn't do nearly enough, and he looks well overweight which is unforgivable. What in his time here makes him so undroppable/unsellable?
If he's overweight, do you really think Gerrard would play him?
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I find it really odd that Sanson isn't getting a game. I guess Gerrard just doesn't fancy him but from what I've seen when he has played he looks like he could do a job. I agree with Risso I don't think he will get a chance and I guess he'll move on in the summer. I also think Luiz will move on too.
Nakamba did look good for a few games, but seems to have turned into prime Kante since he's been injured. This is a player most people on here felt wasn't good enough for 2 seasons. I quite like him as a squad option, but I think people counting down the days until is return may be a bit dissapointed.
I wouldn't be surprised if Watkins moves on. It just doesn't feel right for him at the moment. Would be a big gamble if we don't get a replacement in, I'm not sure we should put that much weight on Archers shoulders just yet.
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I accept McGinn isn't always firing on all cylinders but he can be outstanding and a match winner.
The year we got promoted we saw how hard it is to buy players with premier league experience, and our lack of premier league experience almost relegated us. Therefore, how do we replace a dynamic midfielder in his prime who has 82 premier league appearances without having to pay north of £60m? And even then there is no guarantee we could get better. And let's not go taking a punt on somebody who has to get 'up to speed'.
I firmly believe we need to keep what we have now in terms of the first 14-15 players in the squad and use whatever money we have for the final pieces of the jigsaw - Defensive midfielder and more cover at full back.
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I accept McGinn isn't always firing on all cylinders but he can be outstanding and a match winner.
The year we got promoted we saw how hard it is to buy players with premier league experience, and our lack of premier league experience almost relegated us. Therefore, how do we replace a dynamic midfielder in his prime who has 82 premier league appearances without having to pay north of £60m? And even then there is no guarantee we could get better. And let's not go taking a punt on somebody who has to get 'up to speed'.
I firmly believe we need to keep what we have now in terms of the first 14-15 players in the squad and use whatever money we have for the final pieces of the jigsaw - Defensive midfielder and more cover at full back.
In what way is he a match winner? In three years in the Premier League, all of his goals, every single one, have come in a defeat or a draw. He also doesn't score nearly enough. His three seasons so far have yielded 3 goals in each season. And if you're just going off Premier League appearances as a measure of quality, well Ashley Westwood has 144. If McGinn is in his prime, god help us, we won't be getting top half any time soon.
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I accept McGinn isn't always firing on all cylinders but he can be outstanding and a match winner.
The year we got promoted we saw how hard it is to buy players with premier league experience, and our lack of premier league experience almost relegated us. Therefore, how do we replace a dynamic midfielder in his prime who has 82 premier league appearances without having to pay north of £60m? And even then there is no guarantee we could get better. And let's not go taking a punt on somebody who has to get 'up to speed'.
I firmly believe we need to keep what we have now in terms of the first 14-15 players in the squad and use whatever money we have for the final pieces of the jigsaw - Defensive midfielder and more cover at full back.
In what way is he a match winner? In three years in the Premier League, all of his goals, every single one, have come in a defeat or a draw. He also doesn't score nearly enough. His three seasons so far have yielded 3 goals in each season. And if you're just going off Premier League appearances as a measure of quality, well Ashley Westwood has 144. If McGinn is in his prime, god help us, we won't be getting top half any time soon.
Didn't he score the second (ultimately the winner) at Palace this season in a 2-1 win?
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Little disruption to defensive side needed imo.
If you look at the basic stats we're in top 10 despite it being a disrupted season, think we've conceded one more goal than Man. United, two more than West Ham and four more than Spurs so defensively we're roughly in line with teams in top 6 and chasing 4th.
Had my doubts about Chambers but he's actually been a very logical pick up, filled in well when Kons has been out and could play at RB if needed.
We obviously need a younger alternative at LB so imagine one will be signed in the summer.
It's all on the midfield for next season. New DM has to be signed but I'm not convinced that will solve everything. We still don't really know what our best attacking combinations are after all.
Personally I'd move Ings on but then many would probably sell Ollie instead.
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From that list, Young, Luiz and Traore would go. Also AEG and Trezeguet on permanent deals (though of them I'd say that Trez probably fits Gerrard's system better as a right-sided midfielder tracking back to the right back position).
With Hickey, Phillips, Bissouma and Abraham to come in to replace them.
Who'd be the 8 in that system (I presume Ramsey would be most advanced). Bissouma or Phillips?
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I accept McGinn isn't always firing on all cylinders but he can be outstanding and a match winner.
The year we got promoted we saw how hard it is to buy players with premier league experience, and our lack of premier league experience almost relegated us. Therefore, how do we replace a dynamic midfielder in his prime who has 82 premier league appearances without having to pay north of £60m? And even then there is no guarantee we could get better. And let's not go taking a punt on somebody who has to get 'up to speed'.
I firmly believe we need to keep what we have now in terms of the first 14-15 players in the squad and use whatever money we have for the final pieces of the jigsaw - Defensive midfielder and more cover at full back.
In what way is he a match winner? In three years in the Premier League, all of his goals, every single one, have come in a defeat or a draw. He also doesn't score nearly enough. His three seasons so far have yielded 3 goals in each season. And if you're just going off Premier League appearances as a measure of quality, well Ashley Westwood has 144. If McGinn is in his prime, god help us, we won't be getting top half any time soon.
Didn't he score the second (ultimately the winner) at Palace this season in a 2-1 win?
Ah yes, missed that. That's one then, in three years.
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I'm tending towards agreeing with Risso regarding McGinn.
When receiving the ball, if the opposition stand off him a yard and don't 'engage with the arse', McGinn seems at a loss what to do.
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McGinn can be very good on occasions. He was easily the best midfielder on the pitch at Old Trafford when we won (not saying much though given how terrible Man. United's options are). Also thought he was great in Gerrard's first few games keeping things simple.
Just one of many players we have who look good for a few games but then revert to type.
No chance he's leaving though as Gerrard was raving about him last week and imagine he's good in the dressing room.
Think Luiz and Sanson will both go so that will give us flexibility to get in a couple of new midfielders, Bentancur looks a missed opportunity to me as he's started off well at Spurs doing the simple stuff.
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I think I'd probably let go Young, Traore and if a very very good offer came in, Luiz although I'd like to see him play further forward. Maybe Ings too. I'd happily keep the rest.
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From that list, Young, Luiz and Traore would go. Also AEG and Trezeguet on permanent deals (though of them I'd say that Trez probably fits Gerrard's system better as a right-sided midfielder tracking back to the right back position).
With Hickey, Phillips, Bissouma and Abraham to come in to replace them.
Who'd be the 8 in that system (I presume Ramsey would be most advanced). Bissouma or Phillips?
Fuck knows. I just think we need more than one. Because you know full well that he'd be injured in the first three games.
Having said that, as has been said already, Soucek and Rice, Xhaka and Partey as pairs did for us, no reason we couldn't do the same.
Martinez/Olsen
Cash/KKH Konsa/Chambers Mings /Hause Digne/Chrisene
Bissouma/Nakamba Phillips/Luiz
Ramsey/McGinn/Sanson
Buendia/Bailey Ings /Watkins Coutinho/Traore
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No way should SJM be going anywhere. We'd be much worse without him.
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To be honest, you could have a front four that swapped around, Coutinho more central and Ramsey out left, whatever really. Having said that, I feel I've gone all a bit Gareth Southgate.
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To be honest the only players I would love us to keep are Big Emi, Little Phil and Ramsey
Other than that I could see logic in selling any of them if the price was right - would be sad to see some of them go - like Mings, Konsa and McGinn.
Personally, unless stupid offers come in I would keep all the defenders
In midfield I would say to Chucky sign this today or we’ll sell you
Would like to see one of Sanson or Luiz go
Would like to see Trez, AEG and Targett gone
Two from Ings, Bailey, Bert, Watkins and little Emi
Thats assuming were playing one of SG preferred formatation
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I'm sure SG has a preferred formation - or possibly 2 that he likes to play, both of which involve having an out and out defensive midfielder shielding the back, breaking up opposition attacks and playing simple balls to front and wide players to set things moving forward.
Let's admit it - none of us thought that Marvelous would be as effective in that role as he was in the games before he got crocked. The problem is that we haven't got a like for like replacement and so we've had Luiz/McGinn trying to fill in, in what is clearly not their best/natural position and consequently they haven't been as good as we know they can be - to the detriment of the overall team performance.
So when deciding who to keep sell, I think we need to start with fixing the glaring problem - sign a solid defensive midfielder who is a consistent performer with a good injury record and who can hit the ground running (no emotional baggage or ego issues) and then decide which of the rest of the midfielders in the squad are: a) good enough and b) can play in the roles that SG wants to fill in his preferred formation.
I'm not going to suggest names - but clearly there will be some players who SG just doesn't fancy and I expect them to be moved on and replaced with better players. We all have our favourites, but sometimes for the progression of the club they have to be moved on - it's happened in the past and will happen again in the future.
I expect that the likes of Trez, Davis, Wesley, Targett, Fred Guilbert and Anwar will be moved out.
Similarly with the kids - Chukwuemeka, Chrisene, Hayden, Archer, Young, Barry, Iroegbunam, Philogene-Bidace, Aaron Ramsey, Tommi O'Reilly - all being talked of as potential top class players. IF and it's a big IF we get one a season coming through into the first team squad and becoming a regular player, then we will have done well. The loan system looks to be doing its job - exposing the kids to tough grown up football and giving them the chance to develop their skills, physique, mental strength and become "adults" away from the all embracing comforts of BMH and VP; and helping the Academy coached see who really has got what it takes to move up to the first team.
Football is a business and to be successful you have to be cold hearted at times. So if SG & Co don't think these that some of the kids have got what it takes for our first team, then we should move them on at the right time for them and us (but stick a big sell-on clause in their sale contract - just in case).
Having said all that, I'd be happy with just Kalvin Phillips, Kylian Mbappe and Erling Haaland.
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No emotional baggage or ego issues... Is this Villa's profile on Tinder?
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No way should SJM be going anywhere. We'd be much worse without him.
Unless somebody better played in that position of course.
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No way should SJM be going anywhere. We'd be much worse without him.
Unless somebody better played in that position of course.
I guess the key to answering the original question really hinges on this point - which position does John McGinn play for us at the moment? As a classic, box-to-box midfielder I think we would struggle to find better. But if we want someone to sit in front of the back four and cover for the full-back then I don't think McGinn is the right player for us.
Incidentally, I had a dream last night in which I met John McGinn and he told me that most of the squad knew Gerrard was going to sell them in the summer, and they don't want to leave so they are trying to get him sacked before then. We'd met in an old Blockbuster shop that had been repurposed as a tiny independent cinema, only playing the DVD's that had been left when it closed down.
Read into that what you will....
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I guess the key to answering the original question really hinges on this point - which position does John McGinn play for us at the moment? As a classic, box-to-box midfielder I think we would struggle to find better. But if we want someone to sit in front of the back four and cover for the full-back then I don't think McGinn is the right player for us.
I think that we've already got a better box-to-box midfielder in Ramsey. The trouble with McGinn is that he's not good enough at any one aspect of the game to make a position his own. He's not a defensive midfielder, and his passing is too crap to be a link player in the midfield, and he's not attacking enough to displace somebody like Ramsey permanently.
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I guess the key to answering the original question really hinges on this point - which position does John McGinn play for us at the moment? As a classic, box-to-box midfielder I think we would struggle to find better. But if we want someone to sit in front of the back four and cover for the full-back then I don't think McGinn is the right player for us.
I think that we've already got a better box-to-box midfielder in Ramsey. The trouble with McGinn is that he's not good enough at any one aspect of the game to make a position his own. He's not a defensive midfielder, and his passing is too crap to be a link player in the midfield, and he's not attacking enough to displace somebody like Ramsey permanently.
What I would love to see is a manager that uses a squad to outwit the opposition. I think you're right about Ramsey being better than McGinn, at least in the long run - we are watching him struggle a bit at the moment, which is perfectly understandable at his age.
But a midfield full of energy and running, with McGinn and Ramsey flying around all over the picth - helping the team commit to the press and not giving the opposition any space or time on the ball, then having license to burst forward - that would work against some teams in this league. Then there are times when you might want creativity and guile, so maybe a DM next to Douglas or Sanson, with Buendia or Coutinho making up the 3.
I appreciate that we could probably get a big fee for McGinn right now, but building a squad is important. McGinn would be quite far down my list of players to get rid of this summer, unless silly money came in for him. Being able to rotate and rest players is what we need to learn to do as a club.
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Sounds grim. Did you wake-up in a cold sweat?
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So after what is looking like a second successive season of a mid-table finish, which players would you keep, and who do you think needs replacing? I'm really talking about the senior players but include the kids if you like.
For me in the "keep" column:
Martinez
Cash
Digne
Mings
Konsa
Chambers
Ramsey
Coutinho
Buendia
Nakamba
Ings
Let go/replace:
Young
McGinn
Luiz
Bailey
Sanson
Traore
Watkins
I'd only hang on to Ings as I don't think they'd get rid of Watkins and Ings at the same time, and I'd actually like Sanson to be given a chance, but if he can't get a start ahead of McGinn and Luiz at the moment, then he never will.
That's a hell of a revolving door there bud.
I'm not sure i'd get rid of any of those, possibly Sanson or Luiz but that's about it. Luiz ahead of Sanson if we got offered twice as much for him. Otherwise Sanson.
I'd be offloading Hause for an upgrade, and El Ghazi, Trez and Davis. If we don't sign Coutinho we need an alternative and i'd bring in 2 midfielders, one for either Luiz or Sanson and then i'd loan out chuk and get someone in. A defensive one and an attacking one to compete with Ramsey for that position. Ramsey isn't a box to box player he's not good enough at tackling but he's a good attacking midfielder.
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Sell .
Targett,sign a cheaper back up left back.
One of Luiz or Sanson.
Trez,El Ghazi,Traore.
Chukwuemeka,if he doesn't sign a new contract.
Keep Guilbert for one season.
2 big signings,DCM and hopefully Coutinho.
Reassess in January which youhgsters can replace any fringe players.
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Fred Gilbert as Dean called him, I forgot about the chap. Is he still ripping it up for Strasbourg?
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With Hickey, Phillips, Bissouma and Abraham to come in to replace them.
That would do me quite nicely.
Giving us the chance to play 4231, he needs to be ruthless and get rid of anybody who isn’t up to it if he is to raise the funds that will bring in the four players mentioned, who I believe would make us a top 8 to top six side.
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the problem with McGinn isn't just with the player. It's with us too. We have elevated him to a status in our own minds that is beyond his actual ability. For me, he's a solid squad player, but to be top 6 he's just not of the required quality to start every week.
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I may be in a minority of one, but I want to keep Bert. I don't think Gerrard agrees with me.
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So after what is looking like a second successive season of a mid-table finish, which players would you keep, and who do you think needs replacing? I'm really talking about the senior players but include the kids if you like.
For me in the "keep" column:
Martinez
Cash
Digne
Mings
Konsa
Chambers
Ramsey
Coutinho
Buendia
Nakamba
Ings
Let go/replace:
Young
McGinn
Luiz
Bailey
Sanson
Traore
Watkins
I'd only hang on to Ings as I don't think they'd get rid of Watkins and Ings at the same time, and I'd actually like Sanson to be given a chance, but if he can't get a start ahead of McGinn and Luiz at the moment, then he never will.
Watkins has had a poor season but is three years younger than Ings. I think it's Ings that will move on with Archer replacing him in the squad.
Unless mad money is offered McGinn won't be going anywhere. Nakamba is one I'd be moving on, everyone will be whinging about his lack of quality on the ball when he returns from injury. He definitely isn't good enough.
Decision time on both Luiz and Chucky in the summer with their contract situations. As we have seen before, it isn't easy to shift players on who are on long contracts. Guilbert, Traore, Bailey and Sanson are in that camp. If Gerrard doesn't want them, then it's loss making loan moves most likely where we pay for most of the cost.
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I think Bailey and Sanson (especially) deserve more of a chance.
I know he's not been here long, and in saying this he'll probably turn into prime Ronaldo, but I just don't get it with Bailey. He looks like a player with a few tricks in his locker and bugger all else. Most disappointing signing compared to his reputation in ages. I too think Sanson should get a chance but don't think he will.
Bailey is a real talent. It's far too early to be looking to get rid.
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I think Bailey and Sanson (especially) deserve more of a chance.
I know he's not been here long, and in saying this he'll probably turn into prime Ronaldo, but I just don't get it with Bailey. He looks like a player with a few tricks in his locker and bugger all else. Most disappointing signing compared to his reputation in ages. I too think Sanson should get a chance but don't think he will.
Bailey is a real talent. It's far too early to be looking to get rid.
Leon I read that in a Jamaican accent. I agree. It's too early to get rid of you.
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I may be in a minority of one, but I want to keep Bert. I don't think Gerrard agrees with me.
I like Bert. He's clearly got his faults but he can make something happen out of nothing. Not sure how he'd fit in with the 2 ways SG likes to play though.
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I think Bailey and Sanson (especially) deserve more of a chance.
I know he's not been here long, and in saying this he'll probably turn into prime Ronaldo, but I just don't get it with Bailey. He looks like a player with a few tricks in his locker and bugger all else. Most disappointing signing compared to his reputation in ages. I too think Sanson should get a chance but don't think he will.
Bailey is a real talent. It's far too early to be looking to get rid.
Leon I read that in a Jamaican accent. I agree. It's too early to get rid of you.
Don't get rid of me yet!
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To be honest the only players I would love us to keep are Big Emi, Little Phil and Ramsey
Other than that I could see logic in selling any of them if the price was right - would be sad to see some of them go - like Mings, Konsa and McGinn.
Personally, unless stupid offers come in I would keep all the defenders
In midfield I would say to Chucky sign this today or we’ll sell you
Would like to see one of Sanson or Luiz go
Would like to see Trez, AEG and Targett gone
Two from Ings, Bailey, Bert, Watkins and little Emi
Thats assuming were playing one of SG preferred formatation
Yep, that, pretty much.
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Will all depend on who we bring in.. i wouldn't mind Luiz to go if we bring midfielders. Would love to keep Moutinho.
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Couldn't' work out where to put this, but given it's about money spent etc, I reckon here!
It's from 4-4-2.
Did Aston Villa squander the Jack Grealish money on Ings, Bailey and Buendia?
By Richard Jolly
Aston Villa spent big last summer but their three most expensive signings are arguably no longer starters under new boss Steven Gerrard
Together, they are the Grealish three even if they are never actually together. Most of the proceeds of a record sale were spent on Leon Bailey, Emi Buendia and Danny Ings. The £100 million man was followed by the £90 million trio, even if none was a direct replacement for the departed Jack Grealish.
But, three-quarters of a way into a season, they have outdone him: statistically, anyway, and not only the Manchester City Grealish. As Aston Villa captain, he got six goals and 10 assists in the Premier League last season.
The trio of newcomers have eight goals and 11 assists. There are fundamental differences, of course, including the reality that Ings is a striker and that Grealish only occupied one spot in the side: others, like Anwar El Ghazi (10 goals) and Bertrand Traore (seven goals and six assists) could join him on the pitch then.
In comparison, the Grealish three can be seen as degrees of disappointments. Ings has perhaps been the best, scoring a spectacular overhead kick on his debut at Watford and contributing either a goal or an assist every 152 minutes, but having a stop-start season with injuries, struggling to form a partnership with Ollie Watkins and not replicating his Southampton form. Buendia flattered to deceive initially and at least delivered a winner away at Everton, but the outstanding creator in last season’s Championship has not proved anything like as inventive at a higher level. Bailey had his remarkable cameo at home to Everton, contriving to score and make a goal and get injured in an eventful 21 minutes. Otherwise, he has often been injured or a substitute. His campaign is shaping up as a wasted year.
Summer signings can be bracketed with one another; each was part of succession planning, a very different recruit with pedigree and statistics to suggest they could contribute to life after Jack. Yet Villa’s plans have not been realised. Ings and Bailey have never started together. Bailey and Buendia have only begun three games alongside one another. Ings and Buendia have been in the same on 11 occasions. Villa lost seven of them.
Two managers have wrestled with the question of if there is a shape to suit all, plus the remaining attacking talent. Both have failed to find a way to get the best out of two, let along all three: Dean Smith switched to 3-5-2 to pair Ings and Watkins, but Buendia was unconvincing as a No. 10 and it left no room for a winger, in Bailey. The presence of two box-to-box midfielders, in John McGinn and the fast-emerging Jacob Ramsey, has left 4-3-3 as the logical shape.
And if four into three won’t go, five definitely won’t. Steven Gerrard’s flagship signing is Philippe Coutinho. He is a sign Villa’s ambitions accelerated in the few months between buying Buendia from Norwich and borrowing the Brazilian from Barcelona. Coutinho’s future is uncertain, but Gerrard’s desire to keep him is evident.
And Coutinho means two of the Grealish three tend to be spectators at any given point. Watkins has established himself as the first-choice striker. The manager’s Rangers formation, a narrow 4-3-3 with two No. 10s, lent itself to Buendia, who could operate as an inside-right. A more recent switch to a midfield diamond, with Coutinho at the tip, put Ings alongside Watkins for wins over Brighton, Southampton and Leeds.
But it meant that Ings came in for Buendia against Brighton. In a less successful switch, the Argentinian returned in place of the Englishman against Arsenal on Saturday. As a natural wide player, Bailey seems to suit neither the system nor the manager. Gerrard has only given him one start so far; it is hard to escape the sense he does not particularly rate one of the Bundesliga’s most productive attacking midfielders.
Yet each, in his own way, has suffered from a situation where Villa had a new manager who identified a huge upgrade that was immediately available; they are good players competing for one position now Gerrard has his Galactico.
If it can suggest a failure of strategy by Villa last summer, it is worth remembering the theory that windfalls for sales of special players are often squandered. The names of Luis Suarez and Gareth Bale tend to be cited. The reality can be more complex: Christian Eriksen joined Tottenham as Bale left and proved an inspired addition while Liverpool spent some of the Suarez millions on Divock Origi, Dejan Lovren, Emre Can and Adam Lallana, who all contributed to Jurgen Klopp’s exploits later down the line.
It is nevertheless undeniable that certain signings failed; Smith, like Andre Villas-Boas and Brendan Rodgers, ultimately lost his job amid a difficulty to readjust to the loss of a talisman. Plans were rapidly redrawn and some big-money buys became fringe figures. Villa’s 2021 recruits may know how that feels. If the idea was to replace a Jack with three aces, only one has the chance to be a trump card in Gerrard’s first XI.
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Ings' spectacular overhead kick was his home debut against Newcastle, Mr Jolly!
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I accept McGinn isn't always firing on all cylinders but he can be outstanding and a match winner.
When did this ever happen?
Last 3 managers have all called him the "personality" in the dressing room - He has the odd game where is is a stand out player (and they are becoming fewer and fewer) sorry but that is not enough
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An ideal midfield though for me, based on how we play is a holding player that tackles well and breaks up the opposition, protecting the back 4, a box to box player that gets around, tackles, gives it simple and generally makes themselves a pain in the arse to the opposition and an attacking player that either creates for the front 3, breaks forward into the box or preferably both. Nakamba is the first one although I think we all agree we need a better player with Nakamba as back up and then McGinn is the second one with Sanson as back up/competition and Ramsey is the third one. We could do with a player to compete with Ramsey in addition to the defensive mid.
I think McGinn would improve as the box to box player if he had someone better in the defensive role. I think you’d see the player we saw in the championship but doing it at premier league level.
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I don't think it's a coincidence that all of our midfielders looked a lot better under Gerrard when Nakamba was fit. That injury, and the failure to replace him in January, really stopped that initial progress in its tracks. Doug was playing further forward (I seem to remember that he had a great game at home to Man City), and McGinn did put in a genuinely match-winning performance against Palace.
Personally, most of my hope for next season, and Gerrard's tenure in general, rests on the fact that we are a DM away from looking a much better team.
Without a recognised DM there, the management clearly feel that they can't give the rest of the midfield a proper license to get forward, which is inhibiting their individual performances as well as the team's. Hopefully when Marv gets fit again, we will see a bit more from them all, and a bit more positivity from the management.
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I think the "out" list for the summer writes itself:
- Guilbert
- Trez
- AEG
- Targett
- Wesley
- Davis
- Young
There's other players who I'd let go for the right offer. Think it's a real sign of how far we're progressing that the of players who are now not-good-enough, you'd expect a few to end up at Premier League clubs.
I think a few of our players end up being scapegoated, Dougie and SJM in particular. Luiz is 23 & a Brazilian international. He's been asked to cover in a critical position that we're chronically short of senior players for (literally just Marv, who's injured).
I'd also say that SJM looks pretty handy for Scotland, and moves have been mooted to teams higher up the league than us (Manc Reds and Liverpool?). Maybe he's only a squad player when you get up to top 4 standard - maybe we're just not seeing the best of him because he's being asked to play in a more defensive role than he's suited to - but I'd have him over not.
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Don't think the gulf between ourselves and the upper echelons is that big. West Ham weren't much better than us in the promotion season, and you'd not say that their recruitment has been massively better than ours. The squad will need a bit of reshaping to fit in to Gerrard's way of playing - don't think it's massive, just cutting down the number of wide attacking players, and replacing them with a couple of more combative central midfielders.
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Based on no particular information, I think Watkins will force a move this summer. I hope not, but I think it will happen.
This, along with a proper CMF, will become the key focus of our recruitment.
Whether we can keep Luiz contented at the club, given that he may become interchangeable with McGinn, is a question, too.
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He has looked quite cheesed off for large parts of the season, and hasn't been as good as last. I think he'd be wise to stick around for at least another year, he'll need to find the form he showed last season to interest teams in europe. I hope he does as i rate him personally.
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As long as Martinez stays then I’m a bit meh about most of the rest.
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Based on no particular information, I think Watkins will force a move this summer. I hope not, but I think it will happen.
This, along with a proper CMF, will become the key focus of our recruitment.
Whether we can keep Luiz contented at the club, given that he may become interchangeable with McGinn, is a question, too.
Watkins isn’t good enough for a better and bigger club than Villa. If he wants to move then more fool him.
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Agree with Algys list, although I think Young will stay for another year as backup to Digne.
It does feel we are that elusive quality defensive midfielder away from pushing for top 7 though, when we had Nakamba in there it allowed Doug and SJM the freedom to push on.
If we signed Phillips (and I doubt we will) and got Coutinho then the first 11 looks pretty strong, I still think Ings is the better finisher out of him and Watkins, but Olly offers more legs and chasing down in the final third.
Emi
Digne
Mings
Konsa
Cash
Phillips
SJM
Ramsey
Coutinho
Buendia
Watkins
If a left footed upgrade to Tyrone comes up then I wouldn’t say no, otherwise I think Chambers esq upgrades to other areas would be welcome.
Under Gerrard the day of the out and out winger is gone, so can see Bailey going too
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If we're going to persist with punting it long to Watkins, we may as well let him go. The only players who I know fit whichever system we play are Cash and Martinez. The midfield doesn't really work anymore and we sometimes seem to have no attacking threat or intent so I guess the rest are expendable, if we are truly re-building into what Gerrard wants.
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If we were looking at a new striker I think Patrick Schick would be quite useful both in a 2 up top or on his own (have moved this to the summer 2022 transfer thread).
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So after what is looking like a second successive season of a mid-table finish, which players would you keep, and who do you think needs replacing? I'm really talking about the senior players but include the kids if you like.
For me in the "keep" column:
Martinez
Cash
Digne
Mings
Konsa
Chambers
Ramsey
Coutinho
Buendia
Nakamba
Ings
Let go/replace:
Young- probably has one more move down the leagues
McGinn- I think we will keep unless a silly offer comes in but should be a squad player not regular starter
Luiz- contract situation means he should be sold
Bailey- we really lack pace and if we get him fit and focused he could be useful,
Sanson- pretty obvious Gerrard does not want him, if he can’t get a game in this midfield he never will
Traore - not a Gerrard type player but might be difficult to shift
Watkins- I think he will stay as I don’t see decent money for him based on this seasons form.
I agree with most of this but do not think the pruning will be this severe, it would not surprise me to see Ings go.
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I would keep Bertrand Traoré but I think he along with Sanson, Guilbert and maybe Hause and Davis will be sold. I don't see Hourihane Target and Trezeguet or AEG coming back into the mix . I think Hourihane is out of contract anyway.
So that could be around 9 players that will be leaving.
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I feel some players who are even starting at the moment well know they are to be upgraded or moved on.
It's telling in some performances and would expect Gerrard has identified those players who aren't going to be in the eleven or first choice rather the younger players were in getting some match minutes instead.
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Keep:
Ramsey
Buendia
Coutinho
Digne
Cash
Martinez
Any of the rest I wouldn’t be bothered either way if they were replaced.
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Keep:
Ramsey
Buendia
Coutinho
Digne
Cash
Martinez
Any of the rest I wouldn’t be bothered either way if they were replaced.
I'd add Chambers to that list for his versatility. Also add Iroegbunam, Olsen if we can do the deal. I would also keep Mings, but more for cover than as an every week starter. I wouldn't be in a hurry to sell Watkins either, although I'd like us to bring in a better finisher, will be expensive though.
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Keep:
Ramsey
Buendia
Coutinho
Digne
Cash
Martinez
Any of the rest I wouldn’t be bothered either way if they were replaced.
I'd add Chambers to that list for his versatility. Also add Iroegbunam, Olsen if we can do the deal. I would also keep Mings, but more for cover than as an every week starter. I wouldn't be in a hurry to sell Watkins either, although I'd like us to bring in a better finisher, will be expensive though.
Chambers has been impressive. Worth keeping.
Forgot about Tim. He’s worth keeping.
Archer as well.
I wouldn’t be fussed about Watkins and/or Ings going if we got an upgrade in.
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Push out - Trez / El Ghazi / Traore / Luiz (if he doesn’t sign a new contract)
Sell for market value - Sanson / Ings / Nakamba / Target / Bailey / Chambers
Sell if offered stupid money - Mings / Konsa / Ollie / SJM
Not for sale - Coutinho / Cash / Digne
Crown Jewels - Ramsey / Buendia / Martinez
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Push out - Trez / El Ghazi / Traore / Luiz (if he doesn’t sign a new contract)
Sell for market value - Sanson / Ings / Nakamba / Target / Bailey / Chambers
Sell if offered stupid money - Mings / Konsa / Ollie / SJM
Not for sale - Coutinho / Cash / Digne
Crown Jewels - Ramsey / Buendia / Martinez
We only signed Chambers a few months ago for a bag of crisps!
Big decision on Bailey in the summer for sure. A fully fit and mentally tuned in player should be a real asset. Likes of Hourihane, Hause, Guilbert will all leave too.
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I'm tending towards agreeing with Risso regarding McGinn.
When receiving the ball, if the opposition stand off him a yard and don't 'engage with the arse', McGinn seems at a loss what to do.
He is a fans favourite as in other teams. Many non Villa fans (not Glory hunting pillocks) rave about him.
I don't think he has done enough over last 18 months. Maybe he needs a good rest
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No way should SJM be going anywhere. We'd be much worse without him.
Unless somebody better played in that position of course.
I think SJM is a main contributor to our lack of control in midfield. His technique is not good enough to be our midfield engine, he too often has problems simply controlling and passing the ball.
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No way Chambers should be on that list, same with Mings and Konsa
Marv is more than capable
Luiz is a great player as long as it’s not DM
I love SJM, but if we had a serious bid come in, £40m+, I would accept.
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Martinez
Olsen
Cash
Konsa
Chambers
Mings
Digne
Nakamba
Luiz
McGinn
Ramsey
Buendia
Coutinho
Bailey
Ings
Watkins
Young
That's 17 players so gives us scope to get a bigger, better squad.
I've not included the younger players as I believe they should stay but with potential loans.
To go...
Targett - Inevitable
Sanson - just doesn't get a game
AEG - time has gone
Traore - offers nowhere near enough
Trez - time has gone
Guilbert - just didn't work out
In
Striker x1(plus give Archer a shot)
Midfielder x2 defensively minded
Defender x2 Centre Back and Right Back cover
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In
Striker x1(plus give Archer a shot)
Midfielder x2 defensively minded
Defender x2 Centre Back and Right Back cover
Agree one striker will probably come in; not sure Ings will still be with us come the season-start.
Also agree that 2 new CMF are required, meaning Nakamba is back-up and Tim is on loan in a good Championship side (at least for half the season; maybe offload Marv next January).
I don't think we need 2 more CB: 1 really good one should do it. KKH will cover for Cash, I would think. And, we'll probably get another youngster in to cover at leftback.
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Sorry, meant one of each, centre back and right back (counting Young or Chrisene as LB) so 2 defenders.
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Pretty certain that next season whoever we sign/retain SG will be far less inclined to indulge some of the performances we've seen this season.
It's gonna be - get in shape, stay in shape, shape up, measure up; show ambition and a desire and willingness to improve. If you can't/don't/won't then get the hell out of town.
Passengers, underperformers and not interesteds not wanted or welcome - speak to your agent and off you go.
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I think we will retain
Martinez and Olsen
Cash & KKH
Digne & Young (Chrisine on loan)
Chambers, Mings
Marv & Tim (or possible loan for Tim)
Mcginn, Ramsey and hopefully Chuk. I'd be happy to keep Luiz as an 8, but think he'll be gone
Coutinho & Buendia
Watkins. Possibly Bailey if we can't get a decent fee. I'd like to keep Ings but he may be a fall guy.
If that's about right then we'll be looking for 2 centre backs, 1 or 2 DMs an 8 and a striker.
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I agree with Drummond, except I'd move Big Keinan on to Forest for a decent-ish fee.
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GK (3)
Martinez, Olsen or Steer, Young player
Some reports saying we're trying to get Olsen permanently. I'd go with this trio anyway, if Martinez gets an injury we'd need to look to loan someone in Jan
DF (8 )
RB Cash, Young. LB Digne, Targett, CB Konsa, Mings, New player (top quality), Chambers
KKH could replace Young the season after but i'd loan him for another year.
Offload Hause, he's done nothing wrong but we need a space for a top signing and he'd be the least good of the 4.
Mid (7)
DM New player (top quality), Nakamba. CM McGinn, Luiz, AM Ramsey, new player, W Bailey or Traore.
Offload either Bailey or Traore plus El Ghazi and Trez, plus Sanson.
No 10 (2)
Coutinho, Buendia
STR (5)
Ings, Watkins, New player (top quality), New player (punt), Archer
Play 4-3-1-2 with a number 10. Keep 1 winger on the bench though in case we need some width.
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Martinez
Olsen (back up)
Backs:
Cash
Digne
Young (back up)
KKH (back up)
CB'S
(New)
Chambers
Mings
Hause (back up)
DM
(New)
Nakamba (back up)
Iroegbunam(back up)
CM
(New)
McGinn
Luiz
Chukwuemeka
AM
Buendia
Coutinho
Ramsey
Bailey
STR
(New)
Ings (back up)
Archer (back up or back out on loan)
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I would let go Young Ings Traore Sanson AEG Target Trez.
We need to strengthen the spine with 3 top signings.
Bring the youngsters into the squad Tim, Kessler, Archer Chuck.
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I suspect there will be at least one Surprise move my moneys on John McGinn moving also Freddie Gilbert returns
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Don't see McGinn moving on. And wouldn't want it either.
Hasn't been in great form since the turn of the year, but still a good CM who can do a bit of everything.
Will be quite happy if our midfield options are so good next season he isn't a guaranteed first pick, mind. Ditto Mings.
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I suspect there will be at least one Surprise move my moneys on John McGinn moving also Freddie Gilbert returns
Don't think McGinn has missed a game since Gerrard came in?
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Don't see McGinn moving on. And wouldn't want it either.
Hasn't been in great form since the turn of the year, but still a good CM who can do a bit of everything.
Will be quite happy if our midfield options are so good next season he isn't a guaranteed first pick, mind. Ditto Mings.
McGinn is great at everything apart from passing, scoring goals and making assists.
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Don't see McGinn moving on. And wouldn't want it either.
Hasn't been in great form since the turn of the year, but still a good CM who can do a bit of everything.
Will be quite happy if our midfield options are so good next season he isn't a guaranteed first pick, mind. Ditto Mings.
McGinn is great at everything apart from passing, scoring goals and making assists.
I just dont think you understand.
He cant score or pass
But he great with his arse.
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Get in a centre back and CDM.
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Don't see McGinn moving on. And wouldn't want it either.
Hasn't been in great form since the turn of the year, but still a good CM who can do a bit of everything.
Will be quite happy if our midfield options are so good next season he isn't a guaranteed first pick, mind. Ditto Mings.
McGinn is great at everything apart from passing, scoring goals and making assists.
He's been very good for the last two games and has put some outstanding balls into the box from the left.
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Don't see McGinn moving on. And wouldn't want it either.
Hasn't been in great form since the turn of the year, but still a good CM who can do a bit of everything.
Will be quite happy if our midfield options are so good next season he isn't a guaranteed first pick, mind. Ditto Mings.
McGinn is great at everything apart from passing, scoring goals and making assists.
He's been very good for the last two games and has put some outstanding balls into the box from the left.
I thought he was ace on Sunday, but my brother sitting at the other end of the ground thought otherwise.
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You were right Lee. He was one of our best players.
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Don't see McGinn moving on. And wouldn't want it either.
Hasn't been in great form since the turn of the year, but still a good CM who can do a bit of everything.
Will be quite happy if our midfield options are so good next season he isn't a guaranteed first pick, mind. Ditto Mings.
McGinn is great at everything apart from passing, scoring goals and making assists.
He's been very good for the last two games and has put some outstanding balls into the box from the left.
I thought he was ace on Sunday, but my brother sitting at the other end of the ground thought otherwise.
I thought he was great in the first half, and then we inexplicably switched him and Doug around at halftime, so they were both playing on their 'wrong' sides, and neither looked anywhere near as effective in the second half.
McGinn could play an important role for us in a more settled midfield. Bursting into the box, like at the start of our first season back up, and getting on the end of crosses could be ideal with our full-backs pushing up so far. But in order to do that, we need to trust that there is enough protection behind him, which is what we've lacked since before the internet was invented.
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I suspect there will be at least one Surprise move my moneys on John McGinn moving also Freddie Gilbert returns
Don't think McGinn has missed a game since Gerrard came in?
Only through suspension at home to ManUre. In hindsight, you can understand Sanson's reaction after being substituted in that game. I bet he was thinking "That's my chance blown, Fat Arse will come straight back into the team now for the next game".