Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Ads on March 19, 2022, 02:50:53 PM
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I'll start it then.
Fucking atrocious performance. Passive off the ball, pedestrian on it. Watkins, Luiz, Ramsey, Young, McGinn, Traore, Bailey all scandalously poor.
The two narrow 10s easily swamped. The delivery into the box, the absence of any work rate.
I could be here all day. The £92 to fill my tank up wasn't the worst thing I'd see all day, who knew.
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Disappointing.
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I'll start it then.
Fucking atrocious performance. Passive off the ball, pedestrian on it. Watkins, Luiz, Ramsey, Young, McGinn, Traore, Bailey all scandalously poor.
The two narrow 10s easily swamped. The delivery into the box, the absence of any work rate.
I could be here all day. The £92 to fill my tank up wasn't the worst thing I'd see all day, who knew.
Bit harsh on Bailey and Traore (of whom I am no fan). They were only on about 15 minutes and produced more than the others had in 75.
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Thought Gerrard got pretty much everything wrong today, though he wasn't helped by some really inept performances.
The starting shape with two number 10's, when we've played better with Coutinho behind Watkins and Ings.
Ramsey should have been subbed at half-time.
Watkins was dreadful.
Young was struggling and didn't get forward nearly enough.
Our crossing was woeful.
We didn't move the ball quickly enough.
...and not an excuse for losing, but the referee was poor too.
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We are a very inconsistent mid-table side.
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Agree with Ads, we were atrocious all over the pitch. Nobody had a good game at all, but special mentions for Buendia, Watkins, Luiz, Bailey and Young for being especially terrible l.
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Mcginn and Luzi once again not good enough
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Very meek performance.
I thought Arsenal played well first half, but were also poor in the second.
The commentator on BT sport said that Arsenal did well to make our build up play slow...no our build up play is just slow which is half the problem.
The sobs made little or no impact.
I thought Watkins was very poor again but in fairness to him, is totally isolated and feeding on scraps.
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Shocker
He's got a good squad as the bench proves but he needs to freshen it up sometimes and use subs quicker but couldn't see us ever scoring .
Awful goal to succeed .
Gerrard needs to learn quick but I'll wipe this season off now ,just thought no pressure anymore we can go out and enjoy football but was flat as a pancake .
I bet the owners are perflexed with the money they have spent on that performance.
Oh and Arsenal won't be buying Watkins after that .
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It was as if none of them wanted to be there, which filtered through to the crowd, which filtered through to me. I haven't been that bored watching us since..... errrrm.... Newcastle away.
This two 10's with Ashley Young as the width, no pressing and slow build up is fucking rancid.
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Agree with Ads, we were atrocious all over the pitch. Nobody had a good game at all, but special mentions for Buendia, Watkins, Luiz, Bailey and Young for being especially terrible l.
Yeah Ads summed it up well.
Disapointing - don’t think this two ten thing works in a proper league.
Our attempts to play possession based football doesn’t work with the players we got. You need to be able to move the play quickly - and it takes Ollie 15mins sometimes just to get the ball under control.
Center of the park gets too crowded and becomes too easy to figure us out.
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The last 2 games sum up where we need strengthening which is clearly Central midfield. We were dominated against Rice/Soucek and today against Partey/Xhaka .... it results in us having no outlet into midfield and as a result Coutinho has to come deeper and deeper to make it happen. In fairness to McGinn and Luiz they are not built to play in there. We want someone who is big and strong and is an outlet to receive the ball and keep it ticking over so they can let the more skilled players ahead of them just create.
Our build up play is so ponderous and gives decent opposition time to get their shape and make it harder for our creativity.
We are a work in progress and you have to wonder what Sanson has done to continually be overlooked.
Keep the faith people we have the makings of a very good side.
UTV
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Just played most of the match lacking any belief whatsoever.
One of those chasing shadows first half (Arsenal weren't even that good) and more intensity second half but very slow football that never looked like opening them up.
Best player was Young who really struggled v Saka at first but thought he had a decent game in the end. Says it all though we've spent 100m + on numerous attacking options and our general play was waiting for him to cut inside and curl in a cross.
Get the feeling we'll sign a DM and think we can compete with these sides next season but you actually need a refined style of play and we really don't and it's getting exposed v top end teams now.
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We are so fucking meek sometimes. That was going back to the MON days of playing top sides at home, giving them the ball, showing them too much respect and losing pathetically.
Ps - and Arsenal aren’t even a top side
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I specifically asked for us not to be shit. Thanks for ignoring me, Villa.
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It was as if none of them wanted to be there, which filtered through to the crowd, which filtered through to me. I haven't been that bored watching us since..... errrrm.... Newcastle away.
This two 10's with Ashley Young as the width, no pressing and slow build up is fucking rancid.
That's exactly the way I thought. Arsenal were superb in the first half, but I thought they took their foot off the pedal in the second. Yet even then, our performance had a "can't be arsed" feel about it
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Digne being injured is a massive problem. Our width completely disappears down the left side.
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I think we are at a crossroads. We have just bought in a new manager and need to back him. So let’s wait till the summer and do it. We are not good enough in several areas. Needs addressing so hopefully the owners support the manager.
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Last season it felt like we were really starting to close gap on likes of Arsenal. Now it feels like there's as wide a gulf as ever although their subs were awful so not like they have an amazing squad.
Being honest we miss Grealish big time against these sorts of teams as he could run at defenders direct and get FKs and create space. Coutinho is more about floating around and picking clever passes.
Less said about Ollie's attempts at holding up the ball today the better....
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You win some you lose some ad infinitum. When will it ever end. Why can’t we draw once in a while.
What a total waste of our generous benefactors’ money.
Can’t see this ever changing.
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Watkins is rubbish. Needs an upgrade in the summer.
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Another shocking performance. The lack of energy and self belief is very worrying. Arsenal won't have an easier game all season. I thought Gerrard wouldn't respect these teams at home but we gave Arsenal far to much respect. Not one player would get more than 5/10 today.
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I thought Gerrard wouldn't respect these teams at home but we gave Arsenal far to much respect.
Yeah I thought the same, I thought we'd take it to anybody under him but unfortunately its been anything but that. We seem to have an inferiority complex against anybody above us in the table.
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Extremely poor performance in the first half, no pressing simply allowed Arsenal to stroll into our half compared to Arsenal who pressed us high and we couldn’t play out. We showed a bit of urgency after we conceded and in the second half but in reality, we were second best all over the pitch. Watkins doesn’t need a second touch as he normally loses the ball with his first touch, he isn’t improving, and I wouldn’t be against an upgrade in the summer. Jacob was poor with his passing today and along with McGinn and Luiz the midfield sat deep and didn’t support the forward play very much. If Villa are going to kick on next season we need to strengthen the midfield.
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Also we shouldn't be too tired or jaded. Along with Newcastle I reckon we've playe the fewest games of any club in the country. So the lack of energy in comparison is unfathomable.
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I thought Gerrard wouldn't respect these teams at home but we gave Arsenal far to much respect.
Yeah I thought the same, I thought we'd take it to anybody under him but unfortunately its been anything but that. We seem to have an inferiority complex against anybody above us in the table.
Does seem to be a recurring theme at home, stand off them for first half hour which happened v Man. City and Chelsea (Man. United was a little different with Emi chucking one in early).
Can understand it away from home as you can easily be two down early.
Won't be getting near 7th next season though if we don't have more belief to play our own game against top teams. So flat today.
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0-1 down at home with 12 minutes to go plus injury time and McGinn and Luiz are camping the fucking centre circle refusing to get forward.
We are firmly on course to lose 20 matches this season with those two lightweights in midfield.
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We have a major problem with Watkins as he just cannot hold the ball up, so the midfield never commit forward as they know the ball will be coming back very soon!
That was utterly shocking across the whole pitch (exception Cash who at least showed some endevour).
In the end I was so bored I was just waiting for the time I could leave to go home!
This is anything but progress!
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Piss poor from players and piss poor from management. Cash, Mings and Konza were average, Young had a decent second half, the rest of the outfield were wank. We never laid a glove on them. Grealish really did make Watkins look a very good player last year and for that alone, he was worth £100 million
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Watkins is horribly off form but we can't really drop him as the only replacement would be Ings.
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They didn’t give us any room and we couldn’t work out what to do about it. Bailey and Traore showed exactly why they are both on the bench.
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Insipid. Never heard the home crowd so quiet. Thought Cash was excellent, Mings and Konsa OK, rest pretty poor except Watkins who was shocking - Ramsey also worse than most.
I think the big problem is we haven’t got a midfield. So we’re trying to play out from the back but don’t have the technique to bus out properly, and up bouncing one touch passes back to the centre backs then try again. Only Cash looked purposeful in possession.
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We need a forward that can hold it up, unfortunately the only one we have on our books can't play 2 games for us without breaking himself.
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Highlight of the match was the chicken tikka naan beforehand, and even the naan was a little disappointing.
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A truly wanky, scrappy, scruffy performance. Arsenal have a plan, we looked as if we couldn't even spell it.
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Well that was a touch disappointing all round if we’re honest. Lacked any sort of urgency or pace in the first half and whilst it was marginally better second half we were utterly clueless in breaking them down. Anyway scores on my doors:
Martinez - 7 absolutely fine couldn’t have stopped the shot and otherwise very solid.
Cash - 7 MOTM good display again going forwards but our inability to switch play quickly must leave him frustrated.
Konsa - 6 was ok but lacks something with the ball at his feet
Mings - 6.5 didn’t do too much wrong
Young - 6 poor defensively but a better second half going forward which upped his score
Luiz - 3 atrocious both with and without the ball
McGinn - 4 atrocious but extra mark for running around a bit his passing and ball control are light years from being a top 6 player
Ramsey - 4 see above, needs resting for Sanson
Buendia - 3 meh was he on the pitch?
Coutinho - 5 ineffective but showed quality when he could
Watkins - 3 couldn’t hold the ball up seemed to be running in treacle and was wearing toblerone boots.
Subs - None of them really made an impact.
Generally our inability to pass the ball at pace, inability to do anything with one touch, work out how to beat the press and poor offensive shape. Our one positive today was the defence as other than the goal they didn’t have too many clear cut chances.
Gerrard - 4 got it horribly wrong in terms of set up and despite the half time tweaks we struggled to create much of note. Out inability to switch play quickly in this system is frustrating as our full backs do get acres of space at times but our need for multiple touches is soooo frustrating.
Oh well we’re a mid table team with some mid table players. Onwards….
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The performance was really dull but we’ve still not lost by more than a single goal under Gerrard so far, I think. Arsenal won by reaching the dizzy heights of mediocre. Not too down afterwards but it was painful viewing while on.
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To be fair to Arsenal they are a much better pressing side than they were 12 months ago and that is why they’ve improved - so well coached I think. We are just not good enough to cope and therefore continually give the ball away.
I think the game plan was to keep the score at 0-0 until well into the second half and let the game open up. I think we’d have then got something out of the game, but once they scored, they dictated things pretty much till the last 10 minutes.
Partey is exactly what we need.
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Atrocious performance really. We were so flat all over the pitch. Arsenal barely got out of first gear in the second half and we still hardly made them sweat. Another worrying day for our tactician on the sideline. After a first half performance like that a coach simply has to change things. With both Ramsey and McGinn booked and struggling, either or both could easily have been hooked. Bringing Bailey and Traore on after slating both midweek was very strange. Ings only coming on in the 83rd minute another bizarre one.
Martinez 5 - woeful effort to stop their goal, so slow down
Cash 6 - tried hard but away too many free kicks
Konsa 7 - solid return
Mings 7 - decent game
Young 7 - our biggest threat going forward in second half
Luiz 7 - don't understand Luiz being singled out today, won a lot of ball, distributed it well and shielded ok in front of the CBs
Ramsey 4 - poor game, gave away ball constantly and struggling a bit for form of late
McGinn 5 - game passed him by for most of it
Coutinho 4 - anonymous really
Buendia 5 - surprised to see him off early
Watkins 4 - isolated but hold up play was rubbish again
Bailey 4, Traore 4, Ings 6
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Did we have a shot on target as I can't remember one?
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Did we have a shot on target as I can't remember one?
One. Straight into the arms of the keeper. The last minute free kick.
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Did we have a shot on target as I can't remember one?
Coutinho's free kick at the end was our one and only apparently.
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That was so poor. No urgency from the kick-off at all. We should've got in their faces from the off. Dreadful passing, constantly surrendering the ball, under hit passes intercepted. Set piece delivery was either under hit or kicked straight into touch. Only player who turned up was Matty Cash. As for the shit referee, don't get me started! Arsenal constantly wasted time on free kicks and goal kicks and he did nothing. I felt Martinez was at fault for the goal from where I was sitting. Obviously I need to see it back again.
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Did we have a shot on target as I can't remember one?
One. Straight into the arms of the keeper. The last minute free kick.
Oh, that is why I don't remember it as I had gone by then!
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Insipid. Never heard the home crowd so quiet. Thought Cash was excellent, Mings and Konsa OK, rest pretty poor except Watkins who was shocking - Ramsey also worse than most.
I think the big problem is we haven’t got a midfield. So we’re trying to play out from the back but don’t have the technique to bus out properly, and up bouncing one touch passes back to the centre backs then try again. Only Cash looked purposeful in possession.
With Buendia in the side along with Coutinho and Young at full-back, we just looked very one-paced. Time and again, we had no real wide options, so we're forced to play through the midfield and either gave it away or got caught on the ball. Ollie Watkins had a really poor game, so it meant that we couldn't get a real foothold as he couldn't hold the ball up front.
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Poor, gifted possession and Arsenal far superior
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https://twitter.com/JMGray80/status/1505222974395367430?t=GMU09sDmtU572UwJbUHIWQ&s=19
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My highlight of the day was pre match. Lee Preece arranged for the 5 men who gave me CPR, on 5th December and who I owe my life to after my cardiac arrest. Lee also had Brian Little and Ian Taylor in the photo with us which hopefully will be in the next home match day program. Lee also gave my 5 heroes a goody bag each. Thank you so much Lee.
As regards the match, I knew it was going to be another one of our lacklustre performances when I saw we did not press them at all and were just dropping off them. Also, just how slow are we, as a team, getting the ball forward? Arsenal had all the time in the world to get back into shape therebye reducing us to 1 poor shot on target in the 90 minutes. Especially for home games, we really must start pressing much higher up the pitch if we want to improve things. Especially galling as Arsenal had played in a really hard match on Wednesday. However, it was Arsenal that did all the pressing, especially in the first half. Also a bit worried as, it looks like a strong bench on paper but our subs seem to make little or no difference at all and yet, Bailey and Traore were both whingeing about not getting enough game time!!
Time for Steven to change the team shape and tactics me things.
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So passive. Thought Gerrard’s comments about players not believing in the game plan we’re pretty telling.
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I ran quicker to Aston station to just make the 14:33 than any of the team moved on the pitch. Dougie just jogging the whole game letting them past him at will, McGinn anonymous, Watkins like he couldn't be arsed.
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Sanson and Marv ought to come in for the Dingles. Time to trust the fucking squad.
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I ran quicker to Aston station to just make the 14:33 than any of the team moved on the pitch. Dougie just jogging the whole game letting them past him at will, McGinn anonymous, Watkins like he couldn't be arsed.
could see the Redditch train pulled in from the road, decided not to run for it as thought it a waste of time, got to Aston station and it was 6 minutes early, best move of the day
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Fucking wankers! I look forward to feeling good at the weekend. Cheers! #whatdotheydoallweekintraining™
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Spineless.
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Poor!
60th minute till our 1st shot (apparently the 3rd longest wait
in-game by teams in the pl this season)
1 shot on target all game.
Low possession stats again at home!
Poor!
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That was just rubbish really. It was slow. There was no urgency, no spark, well, no nothing really. Arsenal were not that great either but they didn't need to be. It was dull and the early kick off didn't help.
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Watkins is rubbish. Needs an upgrade in the summer.
Oh do be quiet. Watkins has struggled the last couple of games, but he has proved over time that he is not “rubbish”. Do you post these comments just to get a rise. Well done, it worked.
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So passive. Thought Gerrard’s comments about players not believing in the game plan we’re pretty telling.
Gerrard talking complete sh*te in that interview. Players not believing in game plan in first half...if that was the case why not make changes at half time? I didn't notice any particular improvement in the second half. Reporter obviously didn't either, correctly calling out that we only got one shot on target for all that improvement. Gerrard got the hump it seemed to me and made a show of himself for a finish.
Unless it was divine intervention he was on about, the help from upstairs would hardly be too impressed after letting him bring in Digne and Coutinho in January.
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Flat, boring and shapeless.
No oomph.
The club seems to have stalled a little.
Need a spark.
Oh for the days of Jack.
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I think we look best when we use the flanks more like against Southampton - also think that is where Watkins works best when he is getting service from there.
Pointless trying to get him to hold up the ball he just can’t
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Young was never a good idea against Sakhaa
Fucking obvious
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Just grateful Arsenal had Liverpool in the week, as their energy levels dropped off quite a bit in the 2nd half, otherwise if they had a free week, we well may have been in for a heavy defeat. Would give Cash MOTM, Buendia did more in the 10 mins or so against West Ham, than he did today, Phil probably had his poorest game for us, and Jacob needs a rest. Let's hope the international break will do the players good and we see a big improvement against Wolves.
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I don’t particularly like talking about the opposition, but some comparisons were:
Partey was excellent for them- we have no one like that
Saka and to a lesser extent Smith Rowe offer so much more movement and finesse than or similar players did when they came on
They have 2 or 3 bastards that time waste, buy fouls, are in the ref’s ear - e.g. xhaka, Lacazette, that we’re missing
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0-1 down at home with 12 minutes to go plus injury time and McGinn and Luiz are camping the fucking centre circle refusing to get forward.
We are firmly on course to lose 20 matches this season with those two lightweights in midfield.
In fairness, that may have partly down to the fact that we were playing with two centre forwards, a number ten and two wingers by then!
I do agree regarding the embarassing number of defeats though. Villa have been draw-specialists most of my adult life so the decisive results each game are quite refreshing but obviously a lot less-so when we lose. And we are likely to end-up with more defeats than wins this season which is disappointing to say the least.
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Further confirmation that the Greasy money was wasted.
Watkins first touch abominable.
Young taken to the cleaners
Ramsey should have been rested a long time ago, offered absolutely nothing.
You can not win games if you give the ball away as often as this Villa team does
Shocking ref and time wasting is now a feature of PL football.
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that was a bag of shit today.
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I said on the match thread, when we are shit, we are properly shit.
No half measures.
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https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/12570212/aston-villa-0-1-arsenal-premier-league-highlights
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It is frustrating that we didn't capitalise, in 20-21, on our great start and the fact that clubs like Arsenal were in transition. I felt mid-way through 20-21 that we could leapfrog a good few clubs but then we had a horrible second half of that season and then have gone on to be thoroughly stop start this season.
When will we get it right? by the law of averages we are surely due a really good season?!
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I said on the match thread, when we are shit, we are properly shit.
No half measures.
could tell from the first 5 mins that we wasn't pressing, we had no tempo or intensity to our play. It was clear that their movement would be too good for us. It was pretty pathetic. Was like a Remi Garde showing.
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Yeah the first 5 or ten minutes it was clear how the game was going. We were fortunate not to be more than 1 down after an hour when Arsenal seemed to ease up. It’s hard to believe that it took so long to make changes when things were clearly not working.
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Is that the Remi Garde who got half a season, zero funds, a poisonous francophobic dressing room snake pit, an owner who wanted out and an ignominious sacking? I wondered who was responsible for the last three decades of shit.
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I know you're a consistent defender of Remi, Brian, (and I always thought he was a dignified man who should have been backed that January especially as we had put a couple of wins together and were in the mix to stay-up) but his managerial career pre or post-Villa doesn't scream one that got away.
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I thought Arsenal were much better than us in the first half and deserved the lead. However, when top 6/7 teams, which they are again at the moment, are pinging it about, a mid table team like us have to at least get in their faces. Instead we were passive, from Watkins through midfield. We had a few minutes here and there where we put some tackles in & drove forwards but it was either interspersed with poor passing or lack of movement, or the ref blew up for virtually nothing.
I thought the defence today was generally sound & Cash in particular made a couple of great runs and tried to drag the team forwards by the scruff of the neck. But the Midfield just didn’t work. McGinn started well but faded badly, Dougie was ok, but comparing him to Partay who dominated that area of the pitch, its night & day stuff. I think Beundia ran around a bit but was poor, didn’t make anything happen and wasted his opportunity. Beundia being in the team meant Coutinhio was further forward, which stifled his ability to dictate play from the middle of the park, he was better when Beundia went off. Watkins was really poor today, but he’s obviously not rubbish. What he is, like probably 3 or 4 of our first teamers is distinctly mid table. There cant’t be huge influxes of players every summer, but we are 3 or 4 away i think from challenging for the top six. The way Gerard seems to like to play, it feels like we need a better version of Keinan Davis, to hold the ball up as well as some pace and the lesser spotted CDM obviously.
Finally special mention to Bailey and Traore for utterly terrible cameos from the bench. Bailey just didnt show for the ball, Traore did but just got in Cash’s way and that header out of play when he just had to nod back across the box, oh dear.
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Is that the Remi Garde who got half a season, zero funds, a poisonous francophobic dressing room snake pit, an owner who wanted out and an ignominious sacking? I wondered who was responsible for the last three decades of shit.
Arsenal supporters have had a "saying" going for last years; "will we ever be great again?" , might be we should overtake that.
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In my opinion Cash is a bit overrated on here and Luiz underrated. I did see Luiz do what he supposed to do today defensively, made him self in positions where he could receive and did deliver nice (short) passes. Cashe s running is very good, the ball control and handling of himself when in pressed situations though. I didnt see every minute of the game though.
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I know you're a consistent defender of Remi, Brian, (and I always thought he was a dignified man who should have been backed that January especially as we had put a couple of wins together and were in the mix to stay-up) but his managerial career pre or post-Villa doesn't scream one that got away.
agree but he does not deserve to be held up as the poster boy for all that was wrong with the Villa at that time.
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I've said for a few weeks now that Ramsey needs resting, he's a great talent but needs resting, shows all the signs of burn out. Not sure how or why Luiz keeps his place while Sanson is continually overlooked and Young in the first half especially showed why loaning out a very decent left back was a mistake. The Arsenal manager was facing the chop not so long ago and asked for more time to get the players to play to his team plan, they looked streets above us at times today, how easily they played out from the back while we looked like a disaster waiting to happen.
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We were passive and played with an inferiority complex from the off.
Retreated to our half and let Arsenal play.
Felt like a plucky underdog against a big boy in a cup match.
Play like you are defeated and you will lose.
Very disappointed by the approach and attitude today.
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We were passive and played with an inferiority complex from the off.
Retreated to our half and let Arsenal play.
Felt like a plucky underdog against a big boy in a cup match.
Play like you are defeated and you will lose.
Very disappointed by the approach and attitude today.
All roads lead back to Gerrard on that.
I thought looking at both benches pre game, ours seemed stronger. Look at the three they brought on. Lacazette and Xhaka's best days are both long behind them. They also had a backup keeper and right back playing today and as expected, midway through the second half ran out of gas. Yet we couldn't lay a glove on them, that's embarrassing to be honest.
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We were passive and played with an inferiority complex from the off.
Retreated to our half and let Arsenal play.
Felt like a plucky underdog against a big boy in a cup match.
Yep, biggest dissapointment for me. We shit it.
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Disappointed with the performance we need to improve.
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Two weeks on the trot where we have been bossed by the two holding players in midfield. Last week Rice and Soucek were really good for West Ham. I think Xhaka is a wanker but him and Partey owned our midfield today. I want us to play in the same way but we simply can't do that with the midfielders we have, until Nakamba comes back, and then, he sin't the way forward either.
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Only Premiership game on a Saturday and we still can’t get on Match of the day first !!……. Completely sums up today’s performance
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After that there’s no excuse for any of the midfield three not being replaced….but sadly I think the clamour for any changes that anyone can see are needed will be ignored by Gerrard trying to stamp his authority. So far he has shown himself to be a bit niaive with his tactics……we are far too slow moving the ball asa result also
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I don’t think our midfielders are to blame.
They need the arse kicking progressive DM sitting in front of the defence like Rice to balance the team.
Unfortunately we didn’t buy one in the last 3000 transfer windows.
This team of players is under performing to their abilities
And that’s down to SG and his huge entourage of merry over paid men.
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What was that huddle around the tablet about ,after the first Goal there not in the pub. What kind of message does that send to the players and subs. The keeper gets lots of plaudits but I would think most Sunday league keepers would have fancied stopping that goal. It appears all our creative players aren’t sure what their roles are,possibly over coached. Coutinho underwhelming but not the only one ,on the beach nothing to play for I can see another long winless run.
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This team of players is under performing to their abilities
On what evidence?
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To be brutally honest we are at best a mid table to low premiership side. Look at the way Arsenal players found space and how quickly they moved the ball on. We are really short in quality throughout the squad, if the owners want success a lot more money will be needed, the question after spending a fortune already can we get it right this time.
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I don’t think our midfielders are to blame.
They need the arse kicking progressive DM sitting in front of the defence like Rice to balance the team.
Unfortunately we didn’t buy one in the last 3000 transfer windows.
This team of players is under performing to their abilities
And that’s down to SG and his huge entourage of merry over paid men.
You notably didn’t post after we beat Brighton, Southampton & Leeds.
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Just watched last nights MOTD and Steven Warnock's analysis was very good - Buendia and Coutinho playing too close together and no-one making runs in behind, forcing the interminable "pass it around the back 4 again"
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The narrow 10s were doing my nut. But I'll chalk up yesterday to the fact we are peak midtable.
Watkins, McGinn and Luiz are at their level and all 3 require upgrade in the summer if we're going to kick on. They can be excellent, they can be woeful. We need consistency in that midfield and up front.
Ramsey lacks it owing to age and I think a bit of fatigue at the moment. But that midfield is infuriating at times.
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We made life very easy for them, especially in the first half. Watkins, Buendia & Coutinho have no pace, allowing Arsenal defenders to push up to the halfway line. This condensed the game & left no room to get out from the back. Once Bailey came on Arsenal dropped 10 yards leaving us room to play & things improved a bit.
Anyway, did anyone stay for the trophy presentation to Arsenal?
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We have a major problem with Watkins as he just cannot hold the ball up, so the midfield never commit forward as they know the ball will be coming back very soon!
This is a very good point. Watkins offers nothing. Watkins is horribly off form but we can't really drop him as the only replacement would be Ings.
Would much prefer to give Ings a run of games in the same formation than Watkins. Ings is a much more intelligent player and makes runs where he can be picked out. Watkins offers nothing other than chasing down defenders when we are out of possession.
We need better if we are to retain the services of PC. I doubt he will hang around a club whose goal threat is less than 20 goals a season between them.
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A quick mention for the ref yesterday. He was bloody awful. Booked Mings for winning the ball and got worse as the game went on.
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Didn't lay a glove on them in 90 minutes. Atrocious performance.
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I said over a pre-matchpint that I didn’t expect much from the game, it seems the players felt the same. We hardly layer a glove on them until the last 15 minutes. I like Watkins but he was poor again yesterday, my 6 year old grandson has got a better first touch. His failure to hold the ball up completely undermined the game plan. Arsenal are a much improved side but I can’t help thinking we made them look a better than they are.
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My oldest couldn't come as he was playing his own match so took one of his younger brothers for his first game. He's not into football but enjoyed it much more than he thought he would. He told his brother 'I didn't hate it'. One of our poorest performances this season.
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I said over a pre-matchpint that I didn’t expect much from the game, it seems the players felt the same. We hardly layer a glove on them until the last 15 minutes. I like Watkins but he was poor again yesterday, my 6 year old grandson has got a better first touch. His failure to hold the ball up completely undermined the game plan. Arsenal are a much improved side but I can’t help thinking we made them look a better than they are.
Ive always liked Watkins but i'm tiring of these type of performances. If he can't consistently control the ball and bring others into play, as a main striker should, then he should be replaced.
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This team of players is under performing to their abilities
On what evidence?
I think the squad is strong if unbalanced. If most of the core players were to leave it would be to clubs that finish above or around us I would think.
The defence has been very good for long periods. We have two proven goal scorers who have played for England.
Midfield is too similar but all good players - and we have the likes of Troare and Bailey who have done well in top leagues
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I said over a pre-matchpint that I didn’t expect much from the game, it seems the players felt the same. We hardly layer a glove on them until the last 15 minutes. I like Watkins but he was poor again yesterday, my 6 year old grandson has got a better first touch. His failure to hold the ball up completely undermined the game plan. Arsenal are a much improved side but I can’t help thinking we made them look a better than they are.
Ive always liked Watkins but i'm tiring of these type of performances. If he can't consistently control the ball and bring others into play, as a main striker should, then he should be replaced.
I looked up at the clock yesterday when Ollie made his first positive contribution.
67 minutes.
FFS!
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Watching the goal again the lack of closing down on Saka was shocking.McGinn especially.Also aided by I think by Luiz turning his body out of the way of the shot.
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Watching the goal again the lack of closing down on Saka was shocking.McGinn especially.Also aided by I think by Luiz turning his body out of the way of the shot.
I think Ramsey made an half arsed attempt to clear it too but all in all, it was shocking defending.
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Villa Park is still a nice place to come for away teams and fans. 5 wins in 14 home games tells the ongoing story since we came back up. Arsenal won't have had a more comfortable away game all season.
The lack of intensity and aggressive closing down was infuriating given Arsenal are renowned for losing their composure under pressure.
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An opposition ex player was on the radio yesterday saying that Villa Park was one of the top grounds, pitches, fanbase and atmospheres going. He said that it made players get up for the game and want to do well. I still think that's the case, and we suffer for it.
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An opposition ex player was on the radio yesterday saying that Villa Park was one of the top grounds, pitches, fanbase and atmospheres going. He said that it made players get up for the game and want to do well. I still think that's the case, and we suffer for it.
Apart from our players
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I had a sneaky feeling he was going to drop Ings yesterday and maybe bring in Sanson and push Ramsey further forward. I'm not sure how well that would have gone down before the game mind you.
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Without stating the obvious they pressed us and did not allow us to play the ball out from the back.
We generally let them have the ball and play it out.
Agree when Bailey came on they dropped off but they were already a goal to the good.
We must move the ball much quicker against the top teams and match their press.
If you look at Arsenal and West Ham how many of their squad would you take and who would you move on?
Remember this is the same Arsenal team who had put their manager under a lot of pressure earlier this season.
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I had a sneaky feeling he was going to drop Ings yesterday and maybe bring in Sanson and push Ramsey further forward. I'm not sure how well that would have gone down before the game mind you.
He doesn't seem the type to be bothered by what people think. He really needs to break up the McGinn and Luiz partnership though, it's very rarely worked to great effect in all the matches they've played together.
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McGinn improved a bit yesterday when he moved to the left of Luiz in the second half after a truly horrendous first half effort. I really can't fathom why Smith previously and Gerrard persist with McGinn on the right of Luiz. I guess the thinking might be it frees him up to have a shot on his left near the box. But instead both McGinn and Ramsey are being easily turned by opponents onto their weaker foot with the ball. It really hurts us our ability to play through midfield against better teams. It's also starting to beggar belief why the most technically accomplished out of all of them, Sanson, is being left on the bench.
It's becoming clearer that Gerrard, and his preferred style of play, isn't suiting a lot of the recent recruits by the club. Traore, Sanson, Bailey, Ings and possibly Buendia come to mind. Not all Gerrard's fault obviously, some of these were just poor/panic signings, but it just shows our efforts to replace Grealish's influence have been really poor.
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There's a definite pattern emerging. Last week Rice and Soucek dominated the midfield. This week it was Granit Xhakas turn. Who knew?
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When Gerrard interviewed for the job surely the "grilling" questions Purslow claimed he asked would have included "How will you get value out of all these £15m+ singings we've made in the past 18 months?" Because apart from Buendia who is still not guaranteed a start, all the other players mentioned (Traore, Sanson, Bailey, Ings) have stagnated at best or regressed.
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A quick mention for the ref yesterday. He was bloody awful. Booked Mings for winning the ball and got worse as the game went on.
The Mings booking was farcical.
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A quick mention for the ref yesterday. He was bloody awful. Booked Mings for winning the ball and got worse as the game went on.
The Mings booking was farcical.
It was yet Arsenal by surrounding the ref were clearly trying to get Mings sent off.
They were mithering throughout the game. Lacazette and Xhaka in particular.
A team modelled in the image of its manager.
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A quick mention for the ref yesterday. He was bloody awful. Booked Mings for winning the ball and got worse as the game went on.
The Mings booking was farcical.
It was yet Arsenal by surrounding the ref were clearly trying to get Mings sent off.
They were mithering throughout the game. Lacazette and Xhaka in particular.
A team modelled in the image of its manager.
110% Arteta was a cheating git ! full on
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A quick mention for the ref yesterday. He was bloody awful. Booked Mings for winning the ball and got worse as the game went on.
The Mings booking was farcical.
It was yet Arsenal by surrounding the ref were clearly trying to get Mings sent off.
They were mithering throughout the game. Lacazette and Xhaka in particular.
A team modelled in the image of its manager.
What annoyed me more was the diving and rolling around of Saka. What a tosser! He makes Jack Grealish look like Roy Keane.
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A quick mention for the ref yesterday. He was bloody awful. Booked Mings for winning the ball and got worse as the game went on.
The Mings booking was farcical.
It was yet Arsenal by surrounding the ref were clearly trying to get Mings sent off.
They were mithering throughout the game. Lacazette and Xhaka in particular.
A team modelled in the image of its manager.
What annoyed me more was the diving and rolling around of Saka. What a tosser! He makes Jack Grealish look like Roy Keane.
Saka said afterwards that he was asking the ref for protection during the game.
I mean, our tackling was brutal throughout wasn't?!?
Unreal.
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A quick mention for the ref yesterday. He was bloody awful. Booked Mings for winning the ball and got worse as the game went on.
Totally agree, I think he was the worse I have seen this season and that is saying a lot!
Brilliant tackle by Mings but the Arsenal players got to the ref and I thought for a minute the ref might actually send Mings off, totally ridiculous!
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A quick mention for the ref yesterday. He was bloody awful. Booked Mings for winning the ball and got worse as the game went on.
The Mings booking was farcical.
It was yet Arsenal by surrounding the ref were clearly trying to get Mings sent off.
They were mithering throughout the game. Lacazette and Xhaka in particular.
A team modelled in the image of its manager.
What annoyed me more was the diving and rolling around of Saka. What a tosser! He makes Jack Grealish look like Roy Keane.
Saka said afterwards that he was asking the ref for protection during the game.
I mean, our tackling was brutal throughout wasn't?!?
Unreal.
To be honest, there were 6 bookings and I can't remember a bad foul.
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When Gerrard interviewed for the job surely the "grilling" questions Purslow claimed he asked would have included "How will you get value out of all these £15m+ singings we've made in the past 18 months?" Because apart from Buendia who is still not guaranteed a start, all the other players mentioned (Traore, Sanson, Bailey, Ings) have stagnated at best or regressed.
I think the most grilling question Purslow asked was - will you sign my shirt
To be honest I guess he must have been asked about it. Isn’t the idea meant to be we have a style of play that is used throughout the whole club - but equally SG probably said something about making them the best versions of themselves
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I think we have far too many players that are similar. With regards to Watkins and a few others that other clubs want to sign from us, get the best money for them and let them go. I doubt Ollie will ever be a top player as he lacks the 2 things that the great strikers have, pace and instant ball control. I’d give Ings a few more run outs in place of Ollie. Let’s face it, realistically, the highest we can finish is where we are now, 9th. We are not going to go down either so worth giving different players, like Sanson, a go and start to make players have to fight for their places. We’ve nothing to lose.
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We have players bought mainly for the way the former manager wanted to play. I don’t see wingers as part of the future as much as I would love to see Bailey make the right side his own in a Salah role, and two better players for the other front two spots. But in order to do that we need two superb DM’s and give Coutinho that free role in front of them. We don’t have the right mix of players to do that at the moment.
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I can see why Forest knocked Arsenal out of the FA Cup with that showing against Liverpool. Compare our pathetic effort yesterday. Forest showed passion, desire and no mean skill in a pulsating game; we showed 'respect' for Arsenal ffs!
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I can see why Forest knocked Arsenal out of the FA Cup with that showing against Liverpool. Compare our pathetic effort yesterday. Forest showed passion, desire and no mean skill in a pulsating game; we showed 'respect' for Arsenal ffs!
My thoughts exactly
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I can see why Forest knocked Arsenal out of the FA Cup with that showing against Liverpool. Compare our pathetic effort yesterday. Forest showed passion, desire and no mean skill in a pulsating game; we showed 'respect' for Arsenal ffs!
If Forest show so much of the passion you want us to show, why then are they 9th in the Championship, whereas we are in that position an entire division above them?
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Partly cos this Forest side has only in the last 6 months been been rejuvenated by one of the best young managers in the UK. Oh and we have way more cash to throw at players and coaches....
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As they're not very good. Hence why they're midtable in the 2nd division and getting very excited about playing the Scousers.
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I hope they come up tbh. Another local game to raise interest compared to Huddersfield or Luton.
Kienan has also done very well there so possible they'd give us 6-7m for him full time.
They also had 1 point from first 10 games under Hughton otherwise they'd comfortably be in top 6 since Cooper came in.
Despite the scoreline Southampton gave Man. City a very good game for 70 minutes so that's why yesterday was disappointing, barely laid a glove on Arsenal in first hour.
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We need one he'll of a beast in dougies place, too many attack minded midfielders being asked to do the so called nasty side of the game, they just can't do it.I like Ollie but we need an all round forward who can hold the ball and also give defenders a real rough time, press is the norm now for most teams so we need a higher tempo and players who can play rough when needed. Just my opinion.
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People point out that the reason Forest beat Arsenal is the way that most teams beat Arsenal, so we slag Forest off for being in a lower division than us.
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We need at least 2 top quality midfield players, we are just a very average side.
Reminded me of when Wenger would bring his team to play us and we would admire them and wait for them to score.
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My biggest concern about Saturday is that we appear to be going backwards. Under DS we were going toe to toe with Arsenal and we even had the club trolling them for a while. We even had the cheek to offer 30m for Smith-Rowe now look at us. We were meek almost to the point of accepting second best on Saturday. It's not acceptable and I'm sure hoping that SG will be making that point in no uncertain terms on the training ground today.
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I can see why Forest knocked Arsenal out of the FA Cup with that showing against Liverpool. Compare our pathetic effort yesterday. Forest showed passion, desire and no mean skill in a pulsating game; we showed 'respect' for Arsenal ffs!
Our first team didn't do too badly last time we hosted Liverpool.
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My biggest concern about Saturday is that we appear to be going backwards. Under DS we were going toe to toe with Arsenal and we even had the club trolling them for a while. We even had the cheek to offer 30m for Smith-Rowe now look at us. We were meek almost to the point of accepting second best on Saturday. It's not acceptable and I'm sure hoping that SG will be making that point in no uncertain terms on the training ground today.
And because he doesn't then follow it up by dropping anyone, the players still won't give a shit.
The only one he's dropped so far was Sanson, for what appeared to be a shit back pass and a show of frustration either at that, or having to come off.
He needs to make changes, give someone else a chance because right now against the teams above us in the league, our system isn't working.
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I can see why Forest knocked Arsenal out of the FA Cup with that showing against Liverpool. Compare our pathetic effort yesterday. Forest showed passion, desire and no mean skill in a pulsating game; we showed 'respect' for Arsenal ffs!
If Forest show so much of the passion you want us to show, why then are they 9th in the Championship, whereas we are in that position an entire division above them?
We were poor on Saturday, but that's no reason to dismiss Forest and their achievements since Steve Cooper came in. They have been a revelation since he took over earlier in the season. They are top of the form table in the Championship over the last 10 games, and will be in the play-off positions if they win their game in hand. They were bottom of the league after 7 games, with 1 point and 6 losses when he took over. At that point, they were 15 points behind Fulham. If they win their game in hand they'll be 16 points behind Fulham. They've pretty much matched the runaway league leaders since he came in, and he's taken them from the very bottom of the league to the verge of the play-offs.
The fact they are ninth is no reason to dismiss their performance yesterday, they've been playing like that for a while now. Fingers crossed they get promoted via the play-offs and give us £10m+ for Keinan.
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Look, I like Gregg Evans, even if he's a Baggie like Howell before him. He's our correspondent at The Athletic and paid to write articles of insight for Villans and he generally delivers.
Here's the latest...
They were not the statistics Steven Gerrard had planned to be mulling over as he granted his Aston Villa players a rare week of relative freedom.
One shot on target — in literally the last second of the game — and only 17 touches in the opposition box summed up just how much Villa struggled in their 1-0 defeat to Arsenal.
For the second week running there was a clear gulf in class between a club desperate to break into the top seven and another well on track to finish inside it.
The difference between the two games, however, was that at West Ham last weekend Villa gave their opponents a run for their money.
Against Arsenal at Villa Park they were limp and lacklustre. When Bukayo Saka scored the opening goal on 30 minutes, Villa hadn’t touched the ball in the opposition box. By the interval, they had managed to do so just two times and even later into the game, when they had a little joy as Arsenal backed off, Villa were still unable to muster up a meaningful effort on goal until Philippe Coutinho’s free kick was saved in stoppage time.
Before the game, Gerrard had made the decision to allow his non-international players the opportunity to travel to a warm-weather location for training in the week ahead.
Ten of the 20 players in Saturday’s squad have fixtures with their respective nations anyway, so Gerrard handed each of the others a personalised programme to stick to and suggested they combine it with some family time.
Touches in opposition box this season
Tottenham Hotspur vs Aston Villa
37
Norwich City vs Aston Villa
34
Aston Villa vs Watford
34
Chelsea vs Aston Villa
33
Aston Villa vs Southampton
27
Aston Villa vs Everton
26
Aston Villa vs Manchester United
26
Leeds United vs Aston Villa
26
West Ham United vs Aston Villa
26
Southampton vs Aston Villa
25
Brentford vs Aston Villa
25
Aston Villa vs Leicester City
23
Aston Villa vs Wolves
23
Aston Villa vs Brighton
23
Watford vs Aston Villa
22
Aston Villa vs Leeds United
21
Aston Villa vs Newcastle United
19
Aston Villa vs Brentford
19
Aston Villa vs Chelsea
18
Crystal Palace vs Aston Villa
18
Aston Villa vs West Ham United
17
ASTON VILLA VS ARSENAL
17
Aston Villa vs Manchester City
17
Manchester United vs Aston Villa
16
Arsenal vs Aston Villa
16
Liverpool vs Aston Villa
15
Newcastle United vs Aston Villa
15
Everton vs Aston Villa
13
Brighton vs Aston Villa
12
Average
22.65
The manager has been pleased with the work rate and attitude of the players in recent weeks and a change of scenery felt like a good idea.
Clearly, though, there’s still work to be done a lot closer to home.
Do Villa even believe they’re good enough to beat the teams currently competing for a place in European competition next season? In 12 games against the teams in the nine positions above them, Villa have taken points on just two occasions, first beating Manchester United at Old Trafford and then also taking a point off of them at Villa Park.
Gerrard is asked in every press conference whether his side are capable of kicking on and potentially grabbing a spot in Europe, but with such inconsistencies, still they remain some way off.
It felt like Villa offered Arsenal too much respect and were reactive rather than proactive in the approach.
The decision to play out from the back — goalkeeper Emi Martinez waited until the 44th minute before kicking it long — also backfired.
Villa had a clear plan to beat Arsenal’s press as Martinez used short passes to centre-halves Tyrone Mings and Ezri Konsa, while midfielders John McGinn and Jacob Ramsey dropped in deep to help the build-up play.
Each time, though, it was easily dealt with as Arsenal comfortably won back possession or broke up play with tactical fouls.
When Villa were able to keep hold of the ball for a little longer, they quickly gave it away when a long ball up to Ollie Watkins broke down. The striker won just one duel and lost six others and similar questions from earlier weeks cropped up again. Like can Emi Buendia and Coutinho play in the same team against quality opponents like Arsenal? Is Watkins better with Danny Ings alongside him? Will Morgan Sanson get another chance to start?
On days like these where attacks were few and far between and the supporters had to wait until stoppage time to feel any sort of excitement, it’s not always the system and the selection.
Worst attacking performances 21-22
Shots On Target
Newcastle United vs Aston Villa
1
Aston Villa vs Watford
1
Aston Villa vs Chelsea
1
Aston Villa vs Arsenal
1
Liverpool vs Aston Villa
0
Season total average
3.93
Gerrard agreed that his side lacked belief and insisted he asked his side to think differently when the original approach wasn’t working.
Far too often Martinez would play it out, the defence and central midfield would pass it between themselves, then play broke down.
Yet when the goalkeeper, who was booed by the travelling supporters, mixed it up and went direct, there was a little more concern in the Arsenal back line.
“I said to the players if we can’t play through Arsenal’s initial press, can we go over it, get it forward, show some more positivity, and can we put the two centre-backs under some more pressure, and at least challenge them and see what reaction we get?” Gerrard said. “We created some interesting moments from doing that, but we were waiting for too long.
“Yes, we tried to change it tactically and do something different, but there was nothing wrong with what we tried to do. It was the lack of belief because when we took the handbrake off, there was a difference.”
Coutinho’s late effort ensured that Villa avoided the embarrassment of failing to register a single shot on target for the first time at Villa Park this season.
But that was the only thing to cling onto during a difficult afternoon that highlighted, in front of owners Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens, the need for further support to assist Villa’s plans of mixing it with the Premier League’s big-boys.
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We only seem to lose when we are crap, not because we’ve been whipped by an opposition being world class.
Arsenal first half were better than us easily but felt the setup was wrong. We just couldn’t make anything work.
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That 'touches in the box' data is meaningless without correlating it to points won.
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I think that our manager is over thinking things. Especially when playing at home, press the opponents right up to their penalty area. That’s what Arsenal were doing to us and, we let them come to the half way line before trying to stop them. Football is a simple game only made difficult by managers trying to be clever and over think the tactics.
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That 'touches in the box' data is meaningless without correlating it to points won.
We we had fucking zero points on Saturday. And in relation to comparisons, the fewer touches in the box, the far less likely you are to score goals.
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My biggest concern about Saturday is that we appear to be going backwards. Under DS we were going toe to toe with Arsenal and we even had the club trolling them for a while. We even had the cheek to offer 30m for Smith-Rowe now look at us. We were meek almost to the point of accepting second best on Saturday. It's not acceptable and I'm sure hoping that SG will be making that point in no uncertain terms on the training ground today.
The last time we played Arsenal at whatever their new grounds called we were rubbish
The worst performance of the season Apart from a cracking goal by Ramsey when it was all done and dusted
It was another nail in DS’s coffin at the time
You’re correct though we did have some decent results against top-class opposition under Dean for a while, But that’s not how it finished
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My biggest concern about Saturday is that we appear to be going backwards. Under DS we were going toe to toe with Arsenal and we even had the club trolling them for a while. We even had the cheek to offer 30m for Smith-Rowe now look at us. We were meek almost to the point of accepting second best on Saturday. It's not acceptable and I'm sure hoping that SG will be making that point in no uncertain terms on the training ground today.
The last time we played Arsenal at whatever their new grounds called we were rubbish
The worst performance of the season Apart from a cracking goal by Ramsey when it was all done and dusted
It was another nail in DS’s coffin at the time
You’re correct though we did have some decent results against top-class opposition under Dean for a while, But that’s not how it finished
To me it felt like we were getting under Arsenal's skin we were a team on the rise while they were a team in decline. I didn't have that feeling at all on Saturday like we were back to square one.
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The Arsenal team, tactics and style on the weekend was better than any of the Arsenal teams we’ve beaten under Smith. I’m not undermining Smith’s wins but Arteta has found a way to get those players playing very well.
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You can't really pick one game and use it as evidence that we are going backwards. As John rightly points out in any case, the game against Arsenal earlier in the season was absolutely dismal, one of the worst in years and years, we were astonishingly bad. Gerrard has got us to 1.44 points per game, a big improvement on where we were with Smith at the time with 0.91 points per game. Gerrard is now finding out that largely the same players who were playing badly under Smith mostly can't be relied upon to be consistently good. Who knew?
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You can't really pick one game and use it as evidence that we are going backwards. As John rightly points out in any case, the game against Arsenal earlier in the season was absolutely dismal, one of the worst in years and years, we were astonishingly bad. Gerrard has got us to 1.44 points per game, a big improvement on where we were with Smith at the time with 0.91 points per game. Gerrard is now finding out that largely the same players who were playing badly under Smith mostly can't be relied upon to be consistently good. Who knew?
Well he has had the benefit of a fit Buendia, Ings and the signings of Coutinho, Chambers and Digne....
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You can't really pick one game and use it as evidence that we are going backwards. As John rightly points out in any case, the game against Arsenal earlier in the season was absolutely dismal, one of the worst in years and years, we were astonishingly bad. Gerrard has got us to 1.44 points per game, a big improvement on where we were with Smith at the time with 0.91 points per game. Gerrard is now finding out that largely the same players who were playing badly under Smith mostly can't be relied upon to be consistently good. Who knew?
You can pick one game when it’s the post match thread ;-)
If Gerrard is going to get credit for things that go well, then equally, like on Saturday, he has take his share of the blame. He set us up wrongly to start with and was too slow to change things.
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Buendia and Ings both played in 9 of Smith's 11 games. Chambers is a back up defender. Coutinho was obviously the big signing, but can't do it all by himself when Luiz and McGinn are playing so badly.
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You can't really pick one game and use it as evidence that we are going backwards. As John rightly points out in any case, the game against Arsenal earlier in the season was absolutely dismal, one of the worst in years and years, we were astonishingly bad. Gerrard has got us to 1.44 points per game, a big improvement on where we were with Smith at the time with 0.91 points per game. Gerrard is now finding out that largely the same players who were playing badly under Smith mostly can't be relied upon to be consistently good. Who knew?
You can pick one game when it’s the post match thread ;-)
If Gerrard is going to get credit for things that go well, then equally, like on Saturday, he has take his share of the blame. He set us up wrongly to start with and was too slow to change things.
Absolutely. Saturday was shit, a piss poor performance, he was way too slow to make changes and his treatment of that reporter was a disgrace.
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Saturday was shit, especially in the first half but it was a million miles from some of crap we've all had to witness in the past 10 years. Fuck me there is library to pick from of some of the worst displays ever from a Villa side; home or away. So lets get a bit of perspective there.
While Gerrard is still new in this job; it's only been 5 months or so, we knows he needs to learn fast. I had no issue with him being fucked off coming across in his interview. The questions were stupid but he needs to learn to manage that better. He might get away with it once or twice because of who he is, but he's not Ferguson or Mourinho or Klopp etc. He's won nothing in England so it will end up being noise and a distraction.
He needs at least 2 more windows to bring in players to play his style. He need improvements in some key areas; physically and mentally. That will be about 200m worth of players to buy with about 30-40m worth leaving
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My biggest concern about Saturday is that we appear to be going backwards. Under DS we were going toe to toe with Arsenal and we even had the club trolling them for a while. We even had the cheek to offer 30m for Smith-Rowe now look at us. We were meek almost to the point of accepting second best on Saturday. It's not acceptable and I'm sure hoping that SG will be making that point in no uncertain terms on the training ground today.
The last time we played Arsenal at whatever their new grounds called we were rubbish
The worst performance of the season Apart from a cracking goal by Ramsey when it was all done and dusted
It was another nail in DS’s coffin at the time
You’re correct though we did have some decent results against top-class opposition under Dean for a while, But that’s not how it finished
To me it felt like we were getting under Arsenal's skin we were a team on the rise while they were a team in decline. I didn't have that feeling at all on Saturday like we were back to square one.
We beat Arsenal 1-0 with a dogs of war performance in the year we stayed up. The team we have now is better than that team. Football just doesn’t work in straight lines. They’ve improved after a long period of relative decline for them, we have a much more stable established place in the premier league, but progress has been stalling in mid table for over a year, so we’re missing the thrill of the obvious step up from relegation fodder to mid table. We’re at an important stage now, teams who end up mulling around mid table for a number of years, can get drawn downwards and are subject to decline at the loss of one or two players or a manager, Everton are an obvious example, or even teams like Stoke in years gone by. We need to move beyond mid table next year, to where West Ham, Spurs and Arsenal are, but the only way we can do that is 2 or 3 very important signings.
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My biggest concern about Saturday is that we appear to be going backwards. Under DS we were going toe to toe with Arsenal and we even had the club trolling them for a while. We even had the cheek to offer 30m for Smith-Rowe now look at us. We were meek almost to the point of accepting second best on Saturday. It's not acceptable and I'm sure hoping that SG will be making that point in no uncertain terms on the training ground today.
The last time we played Arsenal at whatever their new grounds called we were rubbish
The worst performance of the season Apart from a cracking goal by Ramsey when it was all done and dusted
It was another nail in DS’s coffin at the time
You’re correct though we did have some decent results against top-class opposition under Dean for a while, But that’s not how it finished
To me it felt like we were getting under Arsenal's skin we were a team on the rise while they were a team in decline. I didn't have that feeling at all on Saturday like we were back to square one.
To me last season was a massive missed opportunity.
Arsenal were very much in transition then and we really should've finished above them and possibly Spurs aswell. Instead we barely won a game for three months with you know who injured who then leaves and now the gulf to those two feels as wide as the day we were promoted.
Sometimes as a club you've got to be ruthless when in good positions but we just let too many chances pass us by and we're floating in no man's land now in the prem.
This summer for first time in a while it should be quality over quantity in the signings we make and we certainly know the key positions we need to fill so just up to Gerrard and Lange to get that right.
Even then it's more likely we'll be competing for 7th and 8th and hopefully finishing above one of Wolves/West Ham.
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If our tactic was to play through the press surely that’s fucking stupid - our goalkeeper and Center half’s are shit with the ball - McGinn relies on recieving the ball in the turn and rolling the opposition player. All our midfielders are too careless in position.
Surely the tactics that would work better would have been to get the ball to Ramsey, Coutinho or Cash and see if they could drive through the press and get runners around them .
I’ll admit I am shit at this tactics thing - but to me it seems like matching our weakness up against there strength
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I honestly can't see player-for-player that we shouldn't have been a match for Arsenal, apart from Saka but then we have Coutinho. I'd hope it's because Arteta has had a bit longer to coach them into shape or that Gerrard is still a bit wet behind the ears.
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I honestly can't see player-for-player that we shouldn't have been a match for Arsenal, apart from Saka but then we have Coutinho. I'd hope it's because Arteta has had a bit longer to coach them into shape or that Gerrard is still a bit wet behind the ears.
They worked out how to stop us getting out from the goalkeeper, we resort to hoof to Watkins and they took the ball off him every time just as West Ham did. Then we stood off them when they were is possession because we had no co-ordinated press. They score they win.
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I honestly can't see player-for-player that we shouldn't have been a match for Arsenal, apart from Saka but then we have Coutinho. I'd hope it's because Arteta has had a bit longer to coach them into shape or that Gerrard is still a bit wet behind the ears.
They worked out how to stop us getting out from the goalkeeper, we resort to hoof to Watkins and they took the ball off him every time just as West Ham did. Then we stood off them when they were is possession because we had no co-ordinated press. They score they win.
Partly because no one got close to Watkins. There were three or four occasions where Watkins would challenge for a ball and the only people with Villa tops on within a 20 yard radius were the crowd. I appreciate it doesn’t fit the narrative on here that Watkins is crap but the attacking midfielders have to bear quite a bit of the blame for not getting near our lone striker on Saturday.
We also made Partey look like Cruyff. He had so much time on the ball.
Our most creative attacking threat came from two Cash runs.
All in all, very poor from the midfield, from both an attacking and defensive perspective. To allow Saka the freedom of the park until confronted by our ageing left back is criminal. McGinn tightened up later but it drags Mings out as cover when he doesn’t do his job allowing their no.9 room.
Hopefully the international break will allow some reorganisation
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I honestly can't see player-for-player that we shouldn't have been a match for Arsenal, apart from Saka but then we have Coutinho. I'd hope it's because Arteta has had a bit longer to coach them into shape or that Gerrard is still a bit wet behind the ears.
They worked out how to stop us getting out from the goalkeeper, we resort to hoof to Watkins and they took the ball off him every time just as West Ham did. Then we stood off them when they were is possession because we had no co-ordinated press. They score they win.
Partly because no one got close to Watkins. There were three or four occasions where Watkins would challenge for a ball and the only people with Villa tops on within a 20 yard radius were the crowd. I appreciate it doesn’t fit the narrative on here that Watkins is crap but the attacking midfielders have to bear quite a bit of the blame for not getting near our lone striker on Saturday.
We also made Partey look like Cruyff. He had so much time on the ball.
Our most creative attacking threat came from two Cash runs.
All in all, very poor from the midfield, from both an attacking and defensive perspective. To allow Saka the freedom of the park until confronted by our ageing left back is criminal. McGinn tightened up later but it drags Mings out as cover when he doesn’t do his job allowing their no.9 room.
Hopefully the international break will allow some reorganisation
I doubt that as we have a lot of players on international duty. I agree about Partey being given far too much time and space same goes for Saka. SG has a dilemma now though. We're unlikely to finish far from where we sit in the table now so it might be the right time to give some of our promising youth players a chance. Kesler looks excellent and there's a couple of young midfielders, Tim and Chuck, who could re-energise things because our current midfield is starting to look very vulnerable which the last two games have proven.
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Yes, there’s certainly merit in getting to 40 points and playing a more youthful team, even if it’s for 25 minutes in the second half, perhaps start one or two. I hear good things about a lot of the former youth team, watched a few of the games live and streamed. A blending in at the as we move toward the future. It will allow those players to become fully part of the squad.
It’ll cause a melt down on here and other villa related sites if we lose a game or two thou … football fans in general are not known for their patience.
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I honestly can't see player-for-player that we shouldn't have been a match for Arsenal, apart from Saka but then we have Coutinho. I'd hope it's because Arteta has had a bit longer to coach them into shape or that Gerrard is still a bit wet behind the ears.
Odegard and Smith-Rowe's composure and ability on the ball versus our midfield is night and day, unfortunately. They look after it better, and move quicker with it.
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I honestly can't see player-for-player that we shouldn't have been a match for Arsenal, apart from Saka but then we have Coutinho. I'd hope it's because Arteta has had a bit longer to coach them into shape or that Gerrard is still a bit wet behind the ears.
Odegard and Smith-Rowe's composure and ability on the ball versus our midfield is night and day, unfortunately. They look after it better, and move quicker with it.
This.
Spot on!
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After a few games this season Arsenal fans were screaming for Arteta to be sacked as they languished at the bottom of the table. He eventually found a formula that works for them and they have gone from strength to strength.
Odegard and Smith-Rowe's composure and ability on the ball versus our midfield is night and day, unfortunately. They look after it better, and move quicker with it.
Its no secret that you get the best players and they perform well - they even had the luxury of brining on Pepe who cost £70+m
I would be more worried if SG did not identify what was wrong and was attempting to put it right. He sussed out the need for a LB and other CH early enough and addressed it
I am sure he will sort the middle of the park also but from what i have seen i'm not sure Bissouma is the answer
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Is it a bit of a worry that aswell as Ings/Watkins and Luiz/McGinn not working that Buendia/Coutinho don't seem a good fit together either? Coutinho was completely anonymous at the weekend. Seems like he prefers more of a free role behind the striker(s).
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The elephant in the room is McGinn
Seemingly teachers pet due to his "personality" but simply not good enough to play every week without the slightest hint he might be dropped.
When he is at his 100 mph best he is a great player for this level - when he is not at that level, or over reliant on his spin off players to look for the hollywood pass - he can be a liability.
Unfortunately he is more often the latter rather than the former
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The elephant in the room is McGinn
Seemingly teachers pet due to his "personality" but simply not good enough to play every week without the slightest hint he might be dropped.
When he is at his 100 mph best he is a great player for this level - when he is not at that level, or over reliant on his spin off players to look for the hollywood pass - he can be a liability.
Unfortunately he is more often the latter rather than the former
I think he would be a lot better further up the pitch. He can press very well and force mistakes like v Spurs last sesson. His technical limitations have been found out the longer he has played in a 2 or 3 at this level. He has become increasingly uncomfortable taking the ball on the half turn in our half, see that example v Arsenal just after half time when he lost it and nearly cost us a goal. I thought he turned like treacle that time in trying to get back too. His long passing from a deep area is abysmal but to be honest I don't think he wants to play it short and set a tempo. I think he's afraid of losing the ball in tight areas now so wants rid of it.
He has become a cause celebre but Sanson is a far more technically accomplished player. Maybe he could do with a bit more drive and aggression like what McGinn has but we can't keep ignoring a player who can comfortably take the ball on either foot. McGinn further up something like the below would help us, I think also he could help close the disconnect between midfield and striker. Ramsey is struggling a bit now too and Nakamba obviously out. So options are limited to be fair.
----------Luiz
Ramsey, Sanson
McGinn, Coutinho/Buendia
-------Ings/Watkins
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Movement has been a huge issue with Villa players ever since I started going in 1994. The best teams move more and keep the ball. Two things we’ve never been good at. Arsenal did those things way better than us. Sadly.
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Is it a bit of a worry that aswell as Ings/Watkins and Luiz/McGinn not working that Buendia/Coutinho don't seem a good fit together either? Coutinho was completely anonymous at the weekend. Seems like he prefers more of a free role behind the striker(s).
there’s no real combinations that work well in our team at the moment. Mings and Konsa worked well last season.
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The elephant in the room is McGinn
Seemingly teachers pet due to his "personality" but simply not good enough to play every week without the slightest hint he might be dropped.
When he is at his 100 mph best he is a great player for this level - when he is not at that level, or over reliant on his spin off players to look for the hollywood pass - he can be a liability.
Unfortunately he is more often the latter rather than the former
I think he would be a lot better further up the pitch. He can press very well and force mistakes like v Spurs last sesson. His technical limitations have been found out the longer he has played in a 2 or 3 at this level. He has become increasingly uncomfortable taking the ball on the half turn in our half, see that example v Arsenal just after half time when he lost it and nearly cost us a goal. I thought he turned like treacle that time in trying to get back too. His long passing from a deep area is abysmal but to be honest I don't think he wants to play it short and set a tempo. I think he's afraid of losing the ball in tight areas now so wants rid of it.
He has become a cause celebre but Sanson is a far more technically accomplished player. Maybe he could do with a bit more drive and aggression like what McGinn has but we can't keep ignoring a player who can comfortably take the ball on either foot. McGinn further up something like the below would help us, I think also he could help close the disconnect between midfield and striker. Ramsey is struggling a bit now too and Nakamba obviously out. So options are limited to be fair.
----------Luiz
Ramsey, Sanson
McGinn, Coutinho/Buendia
-------Ings/Watkins
pretty obvious Sanson is not getting a game any time soon.
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The elephant in the room is McGinn
Seemingly teachers pet due to his "personality" but simply not good enough to play every week without the slightest hint he might be dropped.
When he is at his 100 mph best he is a great player for this level - when he is not at that level, or over reliant on his spin off players to look for the hollywood pass - he can be a liability.
Unfortunately he is more often the latter rather than the former
I think he would be a lot better further up the pitch. He can press very well and force mistakes like v Spurs last sesson. His technical limitations have been found out the longer he has played in a 2 or 3 at this level. He has become increasingly uncomfortable taking the ball on the half turn in our half, see that example v Arsenal just after half time when he lost it and nearly cost us a goal. I thought he turned like treacle that time in trying to get back too. His long passing from a deep area is abysmal but to be honest I don't think he wants to play it short and set a tempo. I think he's afraid of losing the ball in tight areas now so wants rid of it.
He has become a cause celebre but Sanson is a far more technically accomplished player. Maybe he could do with a bit more drive and aggression like what McGinn has but we can't keep ignoring a player who can comfortably take the ball on either foot. McGinn further up something like the below would help us, I think also he could help close the disconnect between midfield and striker. Ramsey is struggling a bit now too and Nakamba obviously out. So options are limited to be fair.
----------Luiz
Ramsey, Sanson
McGinn, Coutinho/Buendia
-------Ings/Watkins
pretty obvious Sanson is not getting a game any time soon.
Seems to be but was our first sub on v Leeds and Southampton. Then no sniff v West Ham or Arsenal when we were being outplayed in midfield. Something not right there.
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Only trusts him when the game is in the bag, seemingly.
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I honestly can't see player-for-player that we shouldn't have been a match for Arsenal, apart from Saka but then we have Coutinho. I'd hope it's because Arteta has had a bit longer to coach them into shape or that Gerrard is still a bit wet behind the ears.
They worked out how to stop us getting out from the goalkeeper, we resort to hoof to Watkins and they took the ball off him every time just as West Ham did. Then we stood off them when they were is possession because we had no co-ordinated press. They score they win.
Partly because no one got close to Watkins. There were three or four occasions where Watkins would challenge for a ball and the only people with Villa tops on within a 20 yard radius were the crowd. I appreciate it doesn’t fit the narrative on here that Watkins is crap but the attacking midfielders have to bear quite a bit of the blame for not getting near our lone striker on Saturday.
Out of 7 contest for the ball he lost 6 of them.
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I managed to watch the highlights of Saturdays game eventually and my live viewing opinions were confirmed.
That was one dreadful refereeing performance.
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I honestly can't see player-for-player that we shouldn't have been a match for Arsenal, apart from Saka but then we have Coutinho. I'd hope it's because Arteta has had a bit longer to coach them into shape or that Gerrard is still a bit wet behind the ears.
They worked out how to stop us getting out from the goalkeeper, we resort to hoof to Watkins and they took the ball off him every time just as West Ham did. Then we stood off them when they were is possession because we had no co-ordinated press. They score they win.
Partly because no one got close to Watkins. There were three or four occasions where Watkins would challenge for a ball and the only people with Villa tops on within a 20 yard radius were the crowd. I appreciate it doesn’t fit the narrative on here that Watkins is crap but the attacking midfielders have to bear quite a bit of the blame for not getting near our lone striker on Saturday.
We also made Partey look like Cruyff. He had so much time on the ball.
Our most creative attacking threat came from two Cash runs.
All in all, very poor from the midfield, from both an attacking and defensive perspective. To allow Saka the freedom of the park until confronted by our ageing left back is criminal. McGinn tightened up later but it drags Mings out as cover when he doesn’t do his job allowing their no.9 room.
Hopefully the international break will allow some reorganisation
I doubt that as we have a lot of players on international duty. I agree about Partey being given far too much time and space same goes for Saka. SG has a dilemma now though. We're unlikely to finish far from where we sit in the table now so it might be the right time to give some of our promising youth players a chance. Kesler looks excellent and there's a couple of young midfielders, Tim and Chuck, who could re-energise things because our current midfield is starting to look very vulnerable which the last two games have proven.
Agree in principle but Kesler Hayden is on loan at MK Dons till the end of the season
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There were a few Arsenal fans in the DE Upper.
They came down to film the Champions League qualification celebrations at full time.
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Pretty flat all round, by the players and for the fans.
Some minor improvements after the break but no real zip. Arsenal faded after the hour mark but held out quite comfortably, helped no doubt by SG's delayed substitutions.
You're losing, so why bring Ings on with less than ten minutes to go?