Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: chrisw1 on January 10, 2022, 09:23:36 AM
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12 months ago if people had mentioned 28 year old Digne or 29 year old Coutinho or Ings the general response would have bveen 'not a chance, not a Villa type signing'
There's been a clear shift from young players with potential to improve and resale value to established quality players who will improve the team right now. There also seems to have been a shift in mindset on wages. I accept you make an exception for the likes of Coutinho, but the reported £160k pw for Digne sounds absolutely crazy.
I always thought having a strict policy is a bit naieve - 'young and hungry,' 'young with resale value' or in MONs case 'experienced, expensive and strictly UK based' It makes sense to me to have a balanced approach, make use of sensible loans where appropriate etc.
With that said (assuming we get Digne) our last 3 signings will be 29, 29 and 28 and all on very high wages and this does concern me a bit. So what's changed? Is it the Newcastle factor - has panic set in that we need to steal a march on them? Is it Gerrard demaning more quality and experience immediately? What is Lange doing at the moment? - anyone on here could have picked out those 3 as decent players.
I think it's potenially very exciting, but it also feels all a bit 'Everton' from the last few years. What do you think?
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With a shift in the style of play that Gerrard wants there is no way we can wait to develop organically. It's a long shot, but if we get into Europe we'll need a bigger squad to cope with the additional 10+ games...
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As you say, you need a balance. You can't just go out and buy 15 top quality 25 year olds. Buying players with potential in the early 20's bracket has its advantage but you run the risk of them fulfilling their potential just as their contracts run out. Likewise buying proven players at 28/29 on their last big pay day is costly and obviously you're not gonna get much back for them. I personally don't see too much problem with two older players coming in. If that became another 4 or 5, I'd start to get a bit worried.
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Think a balance is important. Focus just on resale value of players might excite accountants but some players show their best form into their 30s. The likes of JG and MON showed the risk of buying almost exclusively proven players though.
Ings for me was 100% a panic signing when Grealish left. We are nowhere near the level of a club that warrants 20m for a backup striker. Coutinho became available and Gerrard/Purslow were obviously very keen. Digne had fallen out with Benitez and Everton keen to give him away. All slightly different circumstances.
I wouldn't be overly optimistic that these three will be successful, mind.
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I think it’s fine as long as it’s balanced. If you’re signing older players then they have to enhance the quality of the first team, which those we’re targeting do. This then enables the younger players space to develop and also gives them players they can learn from.
You shouldn’t just be signing/using older players, and equally you can’t just have a squad of youngsters.
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Think a balance is important. Focus just on resale value of players might excite accountants but some players show their best form into their 30s. The likes of JG and MON showed the risk of buying almost exclusively proven players though.
Ings for me was 100% a panic signing when Grealish left. We are nowhere near the level of a club that warrants 20m for a backup striker. Coutinho became available and Gerrard/Purslow were obviously very keen. Digne had fallen out with Benitez and Everton keen to give him away. All slightly different circumstances.
I wouldn't be overly optimistic that these three will be successful, mind.
All transfers are inherently risky to varying degrees, but a massive part of signing established players rather than young / unproven ones is that you can pretty much guarantee they will be successful. That doesn't always work of course, but I think you can allow yourself to be more optimistic!
I welcome the club buying players that will improve our first 11 straight away. I don't care much that they don't have any resale value either - that's a benefit of having a couple of billionaires bankrolling the Villa isn't it? Plus, we have bought / developed a shit load of kids that will be sold for profits or become first team regulars.
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12 months ago if people had mentioned 28 year old Digne or 29 year old Coutinho or Ings the general response would have bveen 'not a chance, not a Villa type signing'
There's been a clear shift from young players with potential to improve and resale value to established quality players who will improve the team right now. There also seems to have been a shift in mindset on wages. I accept you make an exception for the likes of Coutinho, but the reported £160k pw for Digne sounds absolutely crazy.
I always thought having a strict policy is a bit naieve - 'young and hungry,' 'young with resale value' or in MONs case 'experienced, expensive and strictly UK based' It makes sense to me to have a balanced approach, make use of sensible loans where appropriate etc.
With that said (assuming we get Digne) our last 3 signings will be 29, 29 and 28 and all on very high wages and this does concern me a bit. So what's changed? Is it the Newcastle factor - has panic set in that we need to steal a march on them? Is it Gerrard demaning more quality and experience immediately? What is Lange doing at the moment? - anyone on here could have picked out those 3 as decent players.
I think it's potenially very exciting, but it also feels all a bit 'Everton' from the last few years. What do you think?
There's definitely been a shift in terms of transfer policy.When NSWE came In it was stated that 5 years was the target for European football. It was looking increasingly unlikely so when Gerrard was appointed his brief would have probably been to achieve European football and hopefully some silverware ASAP. The long term plans for youth development are still very much on track but to accelerate the process it looks like SG has been given the green light to build a quality team right now with long term youth development being the ultimate ambition.
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I refuse to believe we are going to pay £160,000pw to Digne. That's insane money.
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Was the thread title a placeholder for Weller's My Ever-Changing Moods? Being from Woking, I presume he's a Yanited fan.
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I refuse to believe we are going to pay £160,000pw to Digne. That's insane money.
Apparently he's got three years left at Everton on £120,000pw. So I expect that given we want him to the tune of £25m, you'd think he's picking up a salary increase as part of the deal.
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Brilliant thread Chris and something not lost on my observations of what's going on.
Now I do have a concern there are a lot of short term gains going on driven by our new manager and also by Purslow. An abandonedment of our principles and strategy.
The transfer plan this window hasn't yet seen any longer term target be brought in.
To me at the moment I have a theory it's all being driven and demanded by Gerrard . Telling everyone this is what you have to do to get to the top level. Buy and pay big. For his own reputation Stevie Me It's to get the players needed to make sure he has a team who can compete high up the league but underlying it's to make sure SG is able to be seen as relatively successful so he can take the Liverpool job.
Short cut to success idea
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I refuse to believe we are going to pay £160,000pw to Digne. That's insane money.
Apparently he's got three years left at Everton on £120,000pw. So I expect that given we want him to the tune of £25m, you'd think he's picking up a salary increase as part of the deal.
Ludicrous money.
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I hope it is not a full shift in policy. It is not sustainable and it will restrict us in future seasons. However, arguably we had space in the squad for some experience, therefore it is hopefully a temporary measure to ensure we have players capable of executing Gerrard’s tactics.
Dare I say it/worst case, SG might not be that concerned with developing players or growing the club so we need to make sure we don’t go full MON with him.
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I do't think the plan has changed all that much, the focus is still on youth players but the requirements have changed now.
In general you want your talented youth players slowly building into the squad and being regulars on matchday by the time they're 21, that means 3 years-ish for the team that won the youth cup. If we were signing 24-25 year olds as we had been those players would be hitting their peak at the same time as the kids, making the transition messier. By going a few years older the youth players are ready to take up the slack as we lower the workload on players and you get a more natural evolution of the squad.
Obviously it's not a hard and fast rule but if we think Chrisene (for example) will be ready to play regularly in 3 years time then Digne now makes more sense than someone like Hickey.
On top of that a few experienced players to push us from 11th to 6th/7th gives us better options in the summer and helps increase the standards for the youngsters to aspire to.
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Was the thread title a placeholder for Weller's My Ever-Changing Moods? Being from Woking, I presume he's a Yanited fan.
He's a Chelsea fan, but admits he's not that bothered.
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We have a young squad, that make naïve mistakes. Older and wiser heads help to stop results like Wolves happen.
If the players we're talking about were the likes of Collins and Dunne, then you'd have a point, but Coutinho, Digne and Ings are all successful players with solid reputations at an age that should be their peak pretty much. It's solid and dependable and not at exorbitant fees.
Digne and Coutinho instead of Targett and AEG?
Ings instead of Wesley/Davies?
You have to pay to get what we're looking for and generally you don't get success without experienced heads.
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Two things - financial fair play, can't see how the reported wages can get accommodated.
Also Gerrard needs results now so that in 2 years he steps up to his Liverpool job, he doesn't care if we have players developing in 5 years time, hence the here and now nature of these signings.
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We have a young squad, that make naïve mistakes. Older and wiser heads help to stop results like Wolves happen.
If the players we're talking about were the likes of Collins and Dunne, then you'd have a point, but Coutinho, Digne and Ings are all successful players with solid reputations at an age that should be their peak pretty much. It's solid and dependable and not at exorbitant fees.
Digne and Coutinho instead of Targett and AEG?
Ings instead of Wesley/Davies?
You have to pay to get what we're looking for and generally you don't get success without experienced heads.
Absolutely. Balance is the key.
MON's transfer strategy was 100% experience. Lambert's strategy was 100% kids. Two extremes which didn't work and hopefully we're now operating somewhere in the middle.
It's also worth noting that all the biggest clubs spend big on the right players. No one's successful by solely bringing kids through the system. As long as players improve the first team and the costs are sensible, there's nothing wrong with buying experienced players.
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That damned Gerrard, eh. Ruthlessly manipulating our club to take on unsustainable debt just to set himself up for Liverpool in two years time.
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We have a young squad, that make naïve mistakes. Older and wiser heads help to stop results like Wolves happen.
If the players we're talking about were the likes of Collins and Dunne, then you'd have a point, but Coutinho, Digne and Ings are all successful players with solid reputations at an age that should be their peak pretty much. It's solid and dependable and not at exorbitant fees.
Digne and Coutinho instead of Targett and AEG?
Ings instead of Wesley/Davies?
You have to pay to get what we're looking for and generally you don't get success without experienced heads.
Absolutely. Balance is the key.
MON's transfer strategy was 100% experience. Lambert's strategy was 100% kids. Two extremes which didn't work and hopefully we're now operating somewhere in the middle.
It's also worth noting that all the biggest clubs spend big on the right players. No one's successful by solely bringing kids through the system. As long as players improve the first team and the costs are sensible, there's nothing wrong with buying experienced players.
Pedantic I know but it wasn't really his strategy.
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I think something that may have been missed yesterday with all the Digne talk is that we're meant to have bid £800k for a highly rated 17 year old centre back. That doesn't suggest a change of policy. The young kids also need some experience around them too. Ashley Young has been a really good influence in the squad and I gather that Danny Ings has been mentoring Cam Archer. We've got enough youth that we can afford one or two 28/29 year olds, especially when it's someone of the quality of Coutinho.
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We have a young squad, that make naïve mistakes. Older and wiser heads help to stop results like Wolves happen.
If the players we're talking about were the likes of Collins and Dunne, then you'd have a point, but Coutinho, Digne and Ings are all successful players with solid reputations at an age that should be their peak pretty much. It's solid and dependable and not at exorbitant fees.
Digne and Coutinho instead of Targett and AEG?
Ings instead of Wesley/Davies?
You have to pay to get what we're looking for and generally you don't get success without experienced heads.
Not exorbitant transfer fees maybe but Coutinho and Digne's wages are going to whack a heavy % onto our expenditure every month. Every time our annual accounts come out we moan about our lack of turnover and unsustainable wages to income ratio. Whoever our Finance Director is, presumably he/she is all over this and any possible FFP repercussions.
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We’ve signed one player on loan, it’s a bit early to describe it as a policy.
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I think it has changed. Everything changed when the Idiot fucked off up the M6 and the summer of discontent.
WE went into the transfer market like a drunken sailor without addressing the actual needs of the First Team.
Now Gerrard is working to a different plan and tactically needs different players to the ones he has inherited. Its not about incremental improvements its I want players that can compete at the top end of the league now, and has been said you will inevitably end up with more experience and less resale value.
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We have a young squad, that make naïve mistakes. Older and wiser heads help to stop results like Wolves happen.
If the players we're talking about were the likes of Collins and Dunne, then you'd have a point, but Coutinho, Digne and Ings are all successful players with solid reputations at an age that should be their peak pretty much. It's solid and dependable and not at exorbitant fees.
Digne and Coutinho instead of Targett and AEG?
Ings instead of Wesley/Davies?
You have to pay to get what we're looking for and generally you don't get success without experienced heads.
Not exorbitant transfer fees maybe but Coutinho and Digne's wages are going to whack a heavy % onto our expenditure every month. Every time our annual accounts come out we moan about our lack of turnover and unsustainable wages to income ratio. Whoever our Finance Director is, presumably he/she is all over this and any possible FFP repercussions.
Yep, it's a good point. I guess part of this plan is to grow the commercial side, a little speculate to accumulate perhaps. We're clearly planning to go places, and we'll have plenty of organisations wanting to get on board. Not sure about shirt sales, but Coutinho will help with all that.
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I think something that may have been missed yesterday with all the Digne talk is that we're meant to have bid £800k for a highly rated 17 year old centre back. That doesn't suggest a change of policy. The young kids also need some experience around them too. Ashley Young has been a really good influence in the squad and I gather that Danny Ings has been mentoring Cam Archer. We've got enough youth that we can afford one or two 28/29 year olds, especially when it's someone of the quality of Coutinho.
This is it, for me.
Give the squad more experience and still use the up-and-coming youth players to get gametime.
Adding a proven international like Coutinho and an established French international seems like sensible recruitment to me.
There may be conspiracy theories about whether there is some sort of fundamental shift in approach: I'd interpret it much more as a developing strategy to which Mr Gerrard has made some contribution.
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Improvements in Commercial Revenue is important but incremental, the Game Changer is European Football.
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That damned Gerrard, eh. Ruthlessly manipulating our club to take on unsustainable debt just to set himself up for Liverpool in two years time.
And he would have got away with it if it was not for them pesky kids
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Two things - financial fair play, can't see how the reported wages can get accommodated.
Also Gerrard needs results now so that in 2 years he steps up to his Liverpool job, he doesn't care if we have players developing in 5 years time, hence the here and now nature of these signings.
I think that's totally unfair on Gerrard. How do you or anyone else know what his plans are for the future?I think he's handled the speculation brilliantly and refuses to answer any questions regarding us being a stepping stone in fact he called it disrespectful to Aston Villa football club. What more can he say? He's clearly trying to turn us into a top club and his influence in signing top players is becoming apparent. To say he doesn't care if we have players developing in 5 years time is pure conspiracy theory nonsense. As for those criticising players wages again what's that got to do with Gerrard? The money bods crunch the numbers and have the final say on what's feasible and what's not. I don't get why people can't just enjoy seeing us trying to get a seat at the top table and leave the worrying to those who get paid handsomely to balance the books. The days of us being used as a huge gambling chip are over. Tony X has left the building. We're lucky enough to have superb owners who are very business savvy and very wealthy.
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Last month Gerrard promoted Chrisene to 1st team training presumably as cover for Targett. Seems risky to have a 17 year old as our only cover. Bringing in Digne improves the 1st team, gives us cover and allows Chrisene to potentially go out on loan. I guess sometimes you need to bring in older players to buy time for your youth to develop. If Chrisene was 20 and pushing for a first team place I'd be more worried but this seems like a perfectly fine signing for me.
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Two things - financial fair play, can't see how the reported wages can get accommodated.
Also Gerrard needs results now so that in 2 years he steps up to his Liverpool job, he doesn't care if we have players developing in 5 years time, hence the here and now nature of these signings.
I think that's totally unfair on Gerrard. How do you or anyone else know what his plans are for the future?I think he's handled the speculation brilliantly and refuses to answer any questions regarding us being a stepping stone in fact he called it disrespectful to Aston Villa football club. What more can he say? He's clearly trying to turn us into a top club and his influence in signing top players is becoming apparent. To say he doesn't care if we have players developing in 5 years time is pure conspiracy theory nonsense. As for those criticising players wages again what's that got to do with Gerrard? The money bods crunch the numbers and have the final say on what's feasible and what's not. I don't get why people can't just enjoy seeing us trying to get a seat at the top table and leave the worrying to those who get paid handsomely to balance the books. The days of us being used as a huge gambling chip are over. Tony X has left the building. We're lucky enough to have superb owners who are very business savvy and very wealthy.
I don't know what his plans are but my suspicion is that he is lining up the Liverpool job when it becomes available (likely in the next 2/3 years). But you know as much as me. So can be any more sure that this isn't his thinking.
Your point on the rich owners misses the point about FFP, the owners can have all the money in the world but spending is capped based on our revenues. If Digne and Coutinho take a lot of this up we are limited what we can do elsewhere, it is an opportunity cost.
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I think something that may have been missed yesterday with all the Digne talk is that we're meant to have bid £800k for a highly rated 17 year old centre back. That doesn't suggest a change of policy. The young kids also need some experience around them too. Ashley Young has been a really good influence in the squad and I gather that Danny Ings has been mentoring Cam Archer. We've got enough youth that we can afford one or two 28/29 year olds, especially when it's someone of the quality of Coutinho.
This is it, for me.
Give the squad more experience and still use the up-and-coming youth players to get gametime.
Adding a proven international like Coutinho and an established French international seems like sensible recruitment to me.
There may be conspiracy theories about whether there is some sort of fundamental shift in approach: I'd interpret it much more as a developing strategy to which Mr Gerrard has made some contribution.
It's not a conspiracy theory, simply an observation based on our last 3 major transfers (assuming Digne goes through)
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One thing I would say on this is that last season our first team was looking good for a top 6/8 finish, then Jack got injured and we dropped off. My feeling is to get in to those UEFA Cup berths regularly, you need to have a first choice XI that is good enough for the Champions League. That lessens the impact of any injuries / drops in form over the course of the season.
In that respect, signings like Buendia, Bailey, Ings, Coutinho, or Digne - players who look like legitimate targets for top 4 clubs* - are absolutely vital. I'm sure we could get their 'organically', but how many seasons will that take? How many of our best & brightest will be poached whilst we're waiting for the right moment?
Absolutely in favour of bringing in talented youngsters - just like that Dundee Utd player - and honestly that excites me more long term. But to get to where we want to be, we're going to have to also bring in some players who will push us up the league table in the next 5 months (and 17 months) - not ones who are only going to start to be effective mid way through next season.
Those sort of signings - promising 21/22 year old destined for future glory - are the ones you make when you've got there IMO.
Really exciting times
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Bang on. These are exciting times. I am at an age where I remember the title challenges in the 90s and the League Cup wins and I am desperate for some success.
I was sick when Chelsea and then Man City got their days in the sun and leap frogged us.
Let's just enjoy the big signings and not worry too much about age, wages etc. As far as I am concerned we had some very bleak days since 2000 so I want to enjoy any positive vibes there are now.
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Great post I agree entirely, in response to The Edge post
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Two things - financial fair play, can't see how the reported wages can get accommodated.
Also Gerrard needs results now so that in 2 years he steps up to his Liverpool job, he doesn't care if we have players developing in 5 years time, hence the here and now nature of these signings.
I think that's totally unfair on Gerrard. How do you or anyone else know what his plans are for the future?I think he's handled the speculation brilliantly and refuses to answer any questions regarding us being a stepping stone in fact he called it disrespectful to Aston Villa football club. What more can he say? He's clearly trying to turn us into a top club and his influence in signing top players is becoming apparent. To say he doesn't care if we have players developing in 5 years time is pure conspiracy theory nonsense. As for those criticising players wages again what's that got to do with Gerrard? The money bods crunch the numbers and have the final say on what's feasible and what's not. I don't get why people can't just enjoy seeing us trying to get a seat at the top table and leave the worrying to those who get paid handsomely to balance the books. The days of us being used as a huge gambling chip are over. Tony X has left the building. We're lucky enough to have superb owners who are very business savvy and very wealthy.
I don't know what his plans are but my suspicion is that he is lining up the Liverpool job when it becomes available (likely in the next 2/3 years). But you know as much as me. So can be any more sure that this isn't his thinking.
Your point on the rich owners misses the point about FFP, the owners can have all the money in the world but spending is capped based on our revenues. If Digne and Coutinho take a lot of this up we are limited what we can do elsewhere, it is an opportunity cost.
I didn't miss the point about ffp. What I said was the club pays a lot of money for people to crunch the numbers and advise on what is feasible and what isn't to keep us ffp compliant.
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At this stage I'd say we're still in the supplementing experience with youth phase with the most recent (and potentially soon to be) transfers. However, if it continues then that does suggest to me a change in policy.
I've been thinking for awhile about whether this has already happened with the appointment of Gerrard and how much involvement Lange actually had in it. The speed and manner of it did not sit comfortably with me as an 'exhaustive' process.
The whole point of the DOF role is to ensure continuity of approach/strategy no matter who the manager is. Makes it less costly to correct mistakes and allows for players (broadly) to be able to play in a not dissimilar system under the next manager - allowing for one or two exceptions. It also makes it easier for the young players to come through the system into a similar set up in the first team.
I hope what is currently going on is just a continuity of the existing strategy which has been beneficial but I do have my doubts.
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In his last interview, Christian Purslow stated that the owners, three years in, were now moving onto the "next phase" of their plan. Maybe sprinkling the squad with a few ready-made performers, in the here and now, is part of the overall strategy?
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I've been thinking for awhile about whether this has already happened with the appointment of Gerrard and how much involvement Lange actually had in it. The speed and manner of it did not sit comfortably with me as an 'exhaustive' process.
They've had a couple of months which is probably why it's ready made players rather than a hard analysis of where they might improve. But contrary to popular belief, it was far from unknown for Lange to sign players in their late 20s at FC Copenhagen to supplement the younger ones. And I think that's what we're seeing now - it's not like we've been doing it at the expense of signing younger players ... we must be bought in.a.dozen players for the U23s (and below) over the past 12 months.
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I've been thinking for awhile about whether this has already happened with the appointment of Gerrard and how much involvement Lange actually had in it. The speed and manner of it did not sit comfortably with me as an 'exhaustive' process.
They've had a couple of months which is probably why it's ready made players rather than a hard analysis of where they might improve. But contrary to popular belief, it was far from unknown for Lange to sign players in their late 20s at FC Copenhagen to supplement the younger ones. And I think that's what we're seeing now - it's not like we've been doing it at the expense of signing younger players ... we must be bought in.a.dozen players for the U23s (and below) over the past 12 months.
Time well tell. We got ourselves into a good position with the squad and the money available to spend under FFP. I just hope we don't waste the opportunity.
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In his pre match interview on BBC Gerrard just dropped a massive hint about bringing in a striker in the transfer window. Interesting.
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In his pre match interview on BBC Gerrard just dropped a massive hint about bringing in a striker in the transfer window. Interesting.
I know we all like shinny new things but surely one of our current problems is Ollie and Ing getting enough time on the pitch.
It would only be logical if Arsenal are offering £60m for Watkins.
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In his pre match interview on BBC Gerrard just dropped a massive hint about bringing in a striker in the transfer window. Interesting.
Can I ask what he said please?
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In his pre match interview on BBC Gerrard just dropped a massive hint about bringing in a striker in the transfer window. Interesting.
I thought he was talking about Coutinho and Dign
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In his pre match interview on BBC Gerrard just dropped a massive hint about bringing in a striker in the transfer window. Interesting.
Can I ask what he said please?
I can't recall word for word but he was talking about options and he made the point about us getting more striking options in particular. He had quite a smirk on his face when he said it.It was on around 7.45. Hopefully someone will have recorded it.
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Rash ford gets worse every time and see him and has done for a couple of years
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If we sign Luiz Suarez I would really question what was going on at Villa for short term gains and established names blocking pathways and existing players
However I don't think Suarez will be signed.
Ashley Young is great experience enough.
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I don't mind us investing in the odd older player who'll have little resale value. That's true of buying any 28/29 year old and giving them a 4/5 year contract. I certainly don't think we should rule it out.
There was a period in our recent history when ALL of our big signings were in their late 20s or early 30s, probably getting their last big contract, and no one wants a return to that.
But I have absolutely no issue in signing a few older players if they're good enough to give us a decent year or two, and improve the side - particularly if we have yongster who can develop alongside them and hopefully replace them eventually.
Didn't we have the youngest squad in the league last year? Adding a few years of experience to that is no bad thing.
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Given what we saw on Saturday from Digne and Coutinho, is anyone seriously going to say we shouldn't have signed them due to their age?
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I don't mind us investing in the odd older player who'll have little resale value. That's true of buying any 28/29 year old and giving them a 4/5 year contract. I certainly don't think we should rule it out.
There was a period in our recent history when ALL of our big signings were in their late 20s or early 30s, probably getting their last big contract, and no one wants a return to that.
But I have absolutely no issue in signing a few older players if they're good enough to give us a decent year or two, and improve the side - particularly if we have yongster who can develop alongside them and hopefully replace them eventually.
Didn't we have the youngest squad in the league last year? Adding a few years of experience to that is no bad thing.
This is the biggest difference now and why signing the odd senior pro isn't a bad idea. Under MON (and before then under JG etc.), the older players we were signing had no pressure from younger players below them, so to an extent were able to coast along whilst still playing every week. We've now got good young players coming through to keep them on their toes, and who are learning from the experience of being in a matchday squad with experienced, international class players.
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Given what we saw on Saturday from Digne and Coutinho, is anyone seriously going to say we shouldn't have signed them due to their age?
Let's see what they've contributed after 25/50 games...
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Given what we saw on Saturday from Digne and Coutinho, is anyone seriously going to say we shouldn't have signed them due to their age?
Agreed. We've got potential leaking out of our ears - if we're serious about our ambitions though, we need a bit of 'right here right now' as well. Not least because you get better playing with better players, so the likes of Buendia and JJ and Carney and Doug will benefit hugely from having Coutinho in the team.
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Absolutely.
And yes, judge them after 25/50/75 games, they both seem to be in good shape, despite the lack of match time. Their fitness levels will continue to improve.
I think they could be fabulous long term signings. All of our signings since the end of last season have the right experience.
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I think the Kerr Smith signing and the links with Dan Neill show that this thread is a bit pointless now. The policy stills seems to focus on getting good young players and bringing them through. All that's changed is that we've gone a few years older in some positions so there's a more natural progression. If you have kids coming through and need to give them games that's generally easier to do if it means resting guys in their 30s so signing a few players who are late 20s gives us a bit of a timeline for when they expect the kids to break through.
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I think the Kerr Smith signing and the links with Dan Neill show that this thread is a bit pointless now. The policy stills seems to focus on getting good young players and bringing them through. All that's changed is that we've gone a few years older in some positions so there's a more natural progression. If you have kids coming through and need to give them games that's generally easier to do if it means resting guys in their 30s so signing a few players who are late 20s gives us a bit of a timeline for when they expect the kids to break through.
It looks absolutely consistent with the Lange policy at FC Copenhagen. Sign mostly younger players, but supplement that with the odd 'out of profile' player if they'll significantly strengthen the first team (as opposed to the squad).
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Five years ago we signed Henri Lansbury to be our creative missing link.
Shows how far we've come!
What makes a nice change about Coutinho is he's the type we'd be endlessly linked with in the past but never sign and miss opportunity to rise in league e.g. Juninho/Defoe/Robbie Keane etc.
A shame he's come in when we're a long way off the top 6 compared to when the others were seriously linked but I do think if we can get him full time in the summer he could spark us like Bergkamp coming to Arsenal did all those years ago especially with the youth we now have in midfield.
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Was the thread title a placeholder for Weller's My Ever-Changing Moods? Being from Woking, I presume he's a Yanited fan.
Chelsea, but he’s not that bothered.
EDIT: As Martin said earlier.
There’s a documentary in which Weller is walking down a London street and somebody shouts something like “Hello Paul, John Terry was talking about you earlier”
Weller: Who?
Bloke: John Terry
Weller (still obviously none the wiser): Tell him I said hello.
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Given what we saw on Saturday from Digne and Coutinho, is anyone seriously going to say we shouldn't have signed them due to their age?
Our new manager clearly wanted them and they have experience and a good pedigree.
We're Aston Villa and we will sign who we want ;D
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Given what we saw on Saturday from Digne and Coutinho, is anyone seriously going to say we shouldn't have signed them due to their age?
Our new manager clearly wanted them and they have experience and a good pedigree.
We're Aston Villa and we will sign who we want ;D
In pedigree alone they'd both be at the top of anyone I can remember us signing.
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Yes I would like to wondr why its changed just because we change the coach.
It's really not good practice.
Everyone has been wooed and start struck by SG
It's like he can do what he wants in signing Suarez
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Didn't the guy who played in the pyjamas Gabor Kiraly pretty much throw one into his own net when we played
Manure a few years back?
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Yes I would like to wondr why its changed just because we change the coach.
It's really not good practice.
Everyone has been wooed and start struck by SG
It's like he can do what he wants in signing Suarez
Dean Smith is not returning. I repeat Dean Smith is not returning.
I thought I was the most anti-Gerrard person out there but you're taking it to unfathomable extremes. He's our manager, he's doing pretty well so far and frankly, he's conducting himself in the way I'd hope any manager would, but very few have.
Our transfer policy is perfect, young players to develop, wiser experienced heads to lead the way.
The only person star-struck, appears to be you, right on the bonce.
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Well OK. All points taken
I made my observations
Just seems a big shift and Suarez and Olson seemed to not exactly fit the remit.
Nothing wrong with Steer.
I will keep my concerns about all this short term gains to myself from now
Though the point a thread was created on this highlights I'm not alone with the concerns. (I was actually going to make such a thread but didn't think there would be any traction and people would conclude It was some pining for Smith)
Anyhow as long as overall structure in place and moves are made for the good of Villa that don't risk us or determinedly to the development of academy players then much hope is there remains and great.
Just the opportunistic approach to moves doesn't strike as a long term planning.
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Well OK. All points taken
I made my observations
Just seems a big shift and Suarez and Olson seemed to not exactly fit the remit.
Nothing wrong with Steer.
I will keep my concerns about all this short term gains to myself from now
Though the point a thread was created on this highlights I'm not alone with the concerns. (I was actually going to make such a thread but didn't think there would be any traction and people would conclude It was some pining for Smith)
Anyhow as long as overall structure in place and moves are made for the good of Villa that don't risk us or determinedly to the development of academy players then much hope is there remains and great.
Just the opportunistic approach to moves doesn't strike as a long term planning.
The rumours are that Steer wants first team football so Olson on loan to allow him to go out is perfectly sensible.
Suarez is just a rumour right now, without even an agreement on whether he's for now or the summer, let alone that it's happening so maybe wait and see on that one.
There's nothing wrong with short term gains at a club with one of the most exciting groups of young players in the country, if the actions in this window give 2-3 of our youth players a nudge to work even harder to make it then they'll benefit us in the long term and if it also sees a change in the mentality of the squad (as appears to be happening) then it's great. Also you didn't have these concerns when Smith added Young to the squad and you were even calling for him to start regularly at one point.
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Young has Villa history so not comparable for me.
I take your points regards short term.
I do see it intrinsically linked and not independent.
In that pathway to first team is delayed , blocked due to aged players signed deemed perhaps unecessary.
The change in mentality will be fine when everything is going well when it's not then it won't be the same and things can fall off quite quickly.
Looking positively and in the here and now well we can hope for positives and quality squad options however I am very aware of a shift though have to accept these approaches and changes happen due to new coaching staff.
Good discussion all round.
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Yes I would like to wondr why its changed just because we change the coach.
It's really not good practice.
Everyone has been wooed and start struck by SG
It's like he can do what he wants in signing Suarez
What's changed? Smith brought in Ashley Young, Gerrard has brought in Coutinho. Smith bought Caleb Chukwuemeka, Gerrard has bought Kerr Smith. Smith brought in Martinez, Gerrard has got Digne. A mix of quality older players and promising kids.
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Young has Villa history so not comparable for me.
I take your points regards short term.
I do see it intrinsically linked and not independent.
In that pathway to first team is delayed , blocked due to aged players signed deemed perhaps unecessary.
The change in mentality will be fine when everything is going well when it's not then it won't be the same and things can fall off quite quickly.
Looking positively and in the here and now well we can hope for positives and quality squad options however I am very aware of a shift though have to accept these approaches and changes happen due to new coaching staff.
Good discussion all round.
It's not a good discussion, you're talking nonsense.
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Didn't the guy who played in the pyjamas Gabor Kiraly pretty much throw one into his own net when we played
Manure a few years back?
I don't know who that is and perhaps that's the wrong thread maybe meant for Olsen?
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Yes I would like to wondr why its changed just because we change the coach.
It's really not good practice.
Everyone has been wooed and start struck by SG
It's like he can do what he wants in signing Suarez
What's changed? Smith brought in Ashley Young, Gerrard has brought in Coutinho. Smith bought Caleb Chukwuemeka, Gerrard has bought Kerr Smith. Smith brought in Martinez, Gerrard has got Digne. A mix of quality older players and promising kids.
Smith signed Martinez
Olsen ? Didn't mention him. Didn't fit the narrative did it
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Yes I would like to wondr why its changed just because we change the coach.
It's really not good practice.
Everyone has been wooed and start struck by SG
It's like he can do what he wants in signing Suarez
What's changed? Smith brought in Ashley Young, Gerrard has brought in Coutinho. Smith bought Caleb Chukwuemeka, Gerrard has bought Kerr Smith. Smith brought in Martinez, Gerrard has got Digne. A mix of quality older players and promising kids.
Smith signed Martinez
Olsen ? Didn't mention him. Didn't fit the narrative did it
It's a half season loan for a back back up goalie, hardly relevant at all. Hopefully he'll never play. Smith made a loan in January 2020, what was his name again? Oh yes, Danny Drinkwater. Thank god transfers have changed from that, if nothing else.
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Footy, please chill out. It takes all sorts of approaches and all sorts of players to make a good squad. We have moved direction just a tad because we’ve signed a couple of more experience players. Players who are already at the top of their game rather than up-and-coming, potential laden players. Kerr apart. Either way is good but I quite like the fact that we want to get to a more successful position, quicker.
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It's a half season loan for a back back up goalie, hardly relevant at all. Hopefully he'll never play. Smith made a loan in January 2020, what was his name again? Oh yes, Danny Drinkwater. Thank god transfers have changed from that, if nothing else.
My Dad started losing faith (and never recovered it) in Deano when he signed Drinkwater and said "he could see the fire in his eyes".
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It's a half season loan for a back back up goalie, hardly relevant at all. Hopefully he'll never play. Smith made a loan in January 2020, what was his name again? Oh yes, Danny Drinkwater. Thank god transfers have changed from that, if nothing else.
My Dad started losing faith (and never recovered it) in Deano when he signed Drinkwater and said "he could see the fire in his eyes".
According to ESPN, the second worst PL transfer ever. Behind Weah’s fake cousin who wasn’t even a footballer.
https://www.espn.co.uk/football/soccer-transfers/story/4087601/ranking-the-50-worst-premier-league-transfers-of-all-time?platform=amp
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Didn't the guy who played in the pyjamas Gabor Kiraly pretty much throw one into his own net when we played
Manure a few years back?
I don't know who that is and perhaps that's the wrong thread maybe meant for Olsen?
He played in net 5 times for us 15 years ago.
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It's a half season loan for a back back up goalie, hardly relevant at all. Hopefully he'll never play. Smith made a loan in January 2020, what was his name again? Oh yes, Danny Drinkwater. Thank god transfers have changed from that, if nothing else.
My Dad started losing faith (and never recovered it) in Deano when he signed Drinkwater and said "he could see the fire in his eyes".
According to ESPN, the second worst PL transfer ever. Behind Weah’s fake cousin who wasn’t even a footballer.
https://www.espn.co.uk/football/soccer-transfers/story/4087601/ranking-the-50-worst-premier-league-transfers-of-all-time?platform=amp
Thta's a great article, some memories there.
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Sunderland's fall and fall of the last decade encapsulated by the fact that one in ten of those listed players was bought by Sunderland.
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Yes I would like to wondr why its changed just because we change the coach.
It's really not good practice.
Everyone has been wooed and start struck by SG
It's like he can do what he wants in signing Suarez
The policy hasn’t changed, though. Whilst Deano was here we signed Cashley Y: an old (36) but experienced player to support our young squad. Now, we have signed a 29yr old and a 28yr old ... to support our young squad. And, just for good measure, we’ve brought in Kerr Smith and are threatening to being in another youngster, to balance things up.
What may have changed with the incoming manager is a shift in players targeted. This seems perfectly natural to me since an incomer is bound to have a different view of need.
Dean - for example - didn’t seem to see a need for a DCM; weird though that appears.
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People keep saying that we need to buy first-team players, not squad players, so it would appear that that is what is happening with the Coutinho and Digne signings. The problem with relying on "up and coming" and signing players "for the future" is that tomorrow never comes. We need some immediacy and experience in the team and this is what we are starting to get. There does need to be a balance and as many respondents have pointed out.
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People keep saying that we need to buy first-team players, not squad players, so it would appear that that is what is happening with the Coutinho and Digne signings. The problem with relying on "up and coming" and signing players "for the future" is that tomorrow never comes. We need some immediacy and experience in the team and this is what we are starting to get. There does need to be a balance and as many respondents have pointed out.
Absolutely right. Our first two years back in the Premier league were as much about squad building as they were acquiring the best possible first eleven. I'm heartened by the fact that our two big signings this window walk straight into our first eleven when fit. That's how it should be for us now. I'm all for picking up young and promising players - and I hope it continues - but I'm delighted to see we're targeting players to go immediately into the 11, rather than merely to add competition for places.
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At this point it's better for the U23 players if we're signing late 20s first team players than it would be if we were signing 21-24 year olds to bulk out the squad evenbthough the latter might feel more progressive.
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At this point it's better for the U23 players if we're signing late 20s first team players than it would be if we were signing 21-24 year olds to bulk out the squad evenbthough the latter might feel more progressive.
Yeah, that's my thinking too. The players we're investing heavily in are 16-19 year olds. I'd say players who can give us 2-5 years service, and have some knowledge & winning mentality to pass on to younger players, are exactly what the first team needs.