Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: kippaxvilla2 on August 30, 2021, 10:55:10 PM
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What is your verdict on the transfer window?
For me it was a bit meh and confusing and concerning.
At the start of the summer, I recall (paraphrasing) Purslow saying we needed four PL ready players for key positions. There was at that time no mention of Grealish leaving and we were safe in the assumption that these players would be in addition to him staying. By those maths, the £95m spent would have been gross. Instead, we are now told that the three bought in were to replace him. So something doesn't add up. In addition, the failure (unless something drastically changes) to sign a proven box to box midfielder will haunt us this season. I have nagging feeling that the purse strings are now being pulled with another realisation that we cannot compete at the top table if we are always going to lose our best players.
The squad is slightly better I would argue but my early summer excitement has all but vanished and my expectation is another mid to lower mid table finish.
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Ask me again tomorrow
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We have a pair of box to box midfielders in McGinn and Sanson.
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Squad depth has certainly improved. Tuanzebe, Young, Buendia, Bailey, Ings are all superior than their predecessors in the squad namely Engels, Taylor, Barkley, Trez (injury) and Wesley. You could argue from the squad that started last season Ramsey is a better bet than Hourihane too. So there was been a huge change in personnel. Heaton going too. We have already seen the benefit of Tuanzebe, Young and Ings particularly so far in our 4 points gained.
But Grealish leaving has been a huge blow. The spin that he has been replaced by three players is garbage as the new arrivals simply replaced others. There doesn't appear to be much evidence of a coherent plan so far on what to do with the Grealish sized hole in the team and how we play. The Luiz/McGinn partnership last season after a promising start floundered badly without Grealish and this critical issue in the team hasn't been addressed. The early injury to Watkins has avoided what is likely to be a complex conundrum on how to fit both Ings and Watkins without turning midfield into a sieve.
For me, this international break is critical as a mini pre season to bed in new players, new coaches and a new team really. I do think we are in for some weeks of struggle before things improve.
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I am confused by our transfer activity.
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I believe our owners have pressed the pause button. The plan was built around Grealish staying (that's how Bucks succeeded and I expect we were following the same blueprint). Now that he isn't, plans are being re-assesed and re-drawn and that'll take some time.
I suppose we'll know next summer what it means in regards to our future ambitions but for now I just don't think they want to continue to invest heavily until they know what they want to do going forward.
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I think this is too early to answer. We haven’t seen the team with all the new players settled in and playing yet (including Sanson), even in a rotational way.
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As it stands strikers improved midfield difficult to judge a little on the negative ,defence same keepers negative, it seems like our coaching will need to improve. We know our owners are minted, however they will be looking for a return, I might be wrong but perhaps they are cutting back on investment.
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As it stands strikers improved midfield difficult to judge a little on the negative ,defence same keepers negative, it seems like our coaching will need to improve. We know our owners are minted, however they will be looking for a return, I might be wrong but perhaps they are cutting back on investment.
Could it be a Joe tax in play? Apart from Ings (which appears to have been agreed beforehand anyway) all the players we signed permanently were pre Joe departure.
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As it stands strikers improved midfield difficult to judge a little on the negative ,defence same keepers negative, it seems like our coaching will need to improve. We know our owners are minted, however they will be looking for a return, I might be wrong but perhaps they are cutting back on investment.
That's the thing unfortunately, In order to compete at the very top you have to kiss goodbye to the idea on returns on investment. Its just degrees of losing. Not until you're really established at the top as a brand anyway. You either invest big and make it or you don't at very best you hope to be a spurs or a Leicester, in which case you still need to spend more to catch them. The frustration is that it always appears we get ourselves in to a great position where one more could kick us on and the door opens if we get in to Europe. But these owners have history of always leaving us one short and as I said in the transfer thread yesterday, that needs to change at some point. It might as well have been this window when the gap between us and the rest is so small because I really dont think arsenal we be as poor again or that Everton will invest so little.
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As it stands strikers improved midfield difficult to judge a little on the negative ,defence same keepers negative, it seems like our coaching will need to improve. We know our owners are minted, however they will be looking for a return, I might be wrong but perhaps they are cutting back on investment.
That's the thing unfortunately, In order to compete at the very top you have to kiss goodbye to the idea on returns on investment. Its just degrees of losing. Not until you're really established at the top as a brand anyway. You either invest big and make it or you don't at very best you hope to be a spurs or a Leicester, in which case you still need to spend more to catch them. The frustration is that it always appears we get ourselves in to a great position where one more could kick us on and the door opens if we get in to Europe. But these owners have history of always leaving us one short and as I said in the transfer thread yesterday, that needs to change at some point. It might as well have been this window when the gap between us and the rest is so small because I really dont think arsenal we be as poor again or that Everton will invest so little.
Is it not a case of reaching where Leicester are first and then going up to the next level?
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As it stands strikers improved midfield difficult to judge a little on the negative ,defence same keepers negative, it seems like our coaching will need to improve. We know our owners are minted, however they will be looking for a return, I might be wrong but perhaps they are cutting back on investment.
That's the thing unfortunately, In order to compete at the very top you have to kiss goodbye to the idea on returns on investment. Its just degrees of losing. Not until you're really established at the top as a brand anyway. You either invest big and make it or you don't at very best you hope to be a spurs or a Leicester, in which case you still need to spend more to catch them. The frustration is that it always appears we get ourselves in to a great position where one more could kick us on and the door opens if we get in to Europe. But these owners have history of always leaving us one short and as I said in the transfer thread yesterday, that needs to change at some point. It might as well have been this window when the gap between us and the rest is so small because I really dont think arsenal we be as poor again or that Everton will invest so little.
Is it not a case of reaching where Leicester are first and then going up to the next level?
Indeed but to reach Leicester we need to invest more. We aren't going to catch them while they continue to strengthen and we stay still (at best). We need to catch arsenal, Leeds & Everton first and I don't believe this continually leaving us one short (it's been the striker the last 2 years) will enable us to do that. We need to stop putting plasters on areas to get in and around europa, once we've done that we will then need to go again.
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As it stands strikers improved midfield difficult to judge a little on the negative ,defence same keepers negative, it seems like our coaching will need to improve. We know our owners are minted, however they will be looking for a return, I might be wrong but perhaps they are cutting back on investment.
That's the thing unfortunately, In order to compete at the very top you have to kiss goodbye to the idea on returns on investment. Its just degrees of losing. Not until you're really established at the top as a brand anyway. You either invest big and make it or you don't at very best you hope to be a spurs or a Leicester, in which case you still need to spend more to catch them. The frustration is that it always appears we get ourselves in to a great position where one more could kick us on and the door opens if we get in to Europe. But these owners have history of always leaving us one short and as I said in the transfer thread yesterday, that needs to change at some point. It might as well have been this window when the gap between us and the rest is so small because I really dont think arsenal we be as poor again or that Everton will invest so little.
Is it not a case of reaching where Leicester are first and then going up to the next level?
Indeed but to reach Leicester we need to invest more. We aren't going to catch them while they continue to strengthen and we stay still (at best). We need to catch arsenal, Leeds & Everton first and I don't believe this continually leaving us one short (it's been the striker the last 2 years) will enable us to do that. We need to stop putting plasters on areas to get in and around europa, once we've done that we will then need to go again.
But that’s the thing; Leicester are successful because they’re smart with their investments. They got loads for selling Kante, Maguire, Mahrez, etc but held off if their options to replace them weren’t great and been patient with doing so. They’ve got a league and FA Cup on the mantle piece which is something we could only dream of right now.
We’ve got a higher ceiling IMO but right now, we couldn’t even get ESR and JWP through the door, neither of whom any of the elite sides were in for.
We spent loads under O’Neill and it didn’t work and we had little resale value on the majority of the signings. That was over 10 years ago and it’s harder now with the ever widening gap. NSWE are rich but their not a sovereign wealth fund. Perhaps the right deals aren’t there right now. They know we need more. We can all see it as supporters.
If we go too far we’ll end up like Everton who seemingly have no financial muscle at the moment until they shift their deadwood (hence their low budget summer) or Arsenal who are regressing despite their spending.
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The transfers we've done (in/out) don't look like a club going after CL. They look like a club waiting to see what happens.
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As it stands strikers improved midfield difficult to judge a little on the negative ,defence same keepers negative, it seems like our coaching will need to improve. We know our owners are minted, however they will be looking for a return, I might be wrong but perhaps they are cutting back on investment.
That's the thing unfortunately, In order to compete at the very top you have to kiss goodbye to the idea on returns on investment. Its just degrees of losing. Not until you're really established at the top as a brand anyway. You either invest big and make it or you don't at very best you hope to be a spurs or a Leicester, in which case you still need to spend more to catch them. The frustration is that it always appears we get ourselves in to a great position where one more could kick us on and the door opens if we get in to Europe. But these owners have history of always leaving us one short and as I said in the transfer thread yesterday, that needs to change at some point. It might as well have been this window when the gap between us and the rest is so small because I really dont think arsenal we be as poor again or that Everton will invest so little.
Is it not a case of reaching where Leicester are first and then going up to the next level?
Indeed but to reach Leicester we need to invest more. We aren't going to catch them while they continue to strengthen and we stay still (at best). We need to catch arsenal, Leeds & Everton first and I don't believe this continually leaving us one short (it's been the striker the last 2 years) will enable us to do that. We need to stop putting plasters on areas to get in and around europa, once we've done that we will then need to go again.
But that’s the thing; Leicester are successful because they’re smart with their investments. They got loads for selling Kante, Maguire, Mahrez, etc but held off if their options to replace them weren’t great and been patient with doing so. They’ve got a league and FA Cup on the mantle piece which is something we could only dream of right now.
We’ve got a higher ceiling IMO but right now, we couldn’t even get ESR and JWP through the door, neither of whom any of the elite sides were in for.
We spent loads under O’Neill and it didn’t work and we had little resale value on the majority of the signings. That was over 10 years ago and it’s harder now with the ever widening gap. NSWE are rich but their not a sovereign wealth fund. Perhaps the right deals aren’t there right now. They know we need more. We can all see it as supporters.
If we go too far we’ll end up like Everton who seemingly have no financial muscle at the moment until they shift their deadwood (hence their low budget summer) or Arsenal who are regressing despite their spending.
I agree to an extent but the only thing I would say is that Leicester had their team complete. We have a great big kante shaped hole in front of out back four that needs filling. I don't mind if that player costs £2 million or £50 million (prefer the former obviously) but that needs addressing. Leicester addressed their issues when they brought those players in.
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As it stands strikers improved midfield difficult to judge a little on the negative ,defence same keepers negative, it seems like our coaching will need to improve. We know our owners are minted, however they will be looking for a return, I might be wrong but perhaps they are cutting back on investment.
That's the thing unfortunately, In order to compete at the very top you have to kiss goodbye to the idea on returns on investment. Its just degrees of losing. Not until you're really established at the top as a brand anyway. You either invest big and make it or you don't at very best you hope to be a spurs or a Leicester, in which case you still need to spend more to catch them. The frustration is that it always appears we get ourselves in to a great position where one more could kick us on and the door opens if we get in to Europe. But these owners have history of always leaving us one short and as I said in the transfer thread yesterday, that needs to change at some point. It might as well have been this window when the gap between us and the rest is so small because I really dont think arsenal we be as poor again or that Everton will invest so little.
Is it not a case of reaching where Leicester are first and then going up to the next level?
Indeed but to reach Leicester we need to invest more. We aren't going to catch them while they continue to strengthen and we stay still (at best). We need to catch arsenal, Leeds & Everton first and I don't believe this continually leaving us one short (it's been the striker the last 2 years) will enable us to do that. We need to stop putting plasters on areas to get in and around europa, once we've done that we will then need to go again.
But that’s the thing; Leicester are successful because they’re smart with their investments. They got loads for selling Kante, Maguire, Mahrez, etc but held off if their options to replace them weren’t great and been patient with doing so. They’ve got a league and FA Cup on the mantle piece which is something we could only dream of right now.
We’ve got a higher ceiling IMO but right now, we couldn’t even get ESR and JWP through the door, neither of whom any of the elite sides were in for.
We spent loads under O’Neill and it didn’t work and we had little resale value on the majority of the signings. That was over 10 years ago and it’s harder now with the ever widening gap. NSWE are rich but their not a sovereign wealth fund. Perhaps the right deals aren’t there right now. They know we need more. We can all see it as supporters.
If we go too far we’ll end up like Everton who seemingly have no financial muscle at the moment until they shift their deadwood (hence their low budget summer) or Arsenal who are regressing despite their spending.
I agree to an extent but the only thing I would say is that Leicester had their team complete. We have a great big kante shaped hole in front of out back four that needs filling. I don't mind if that player costs £2 million or £50 million (prefer the former obviously) but that needs addressing. Leicester addressed their issues when they brought those players in.
We definitely need a Kante. That’s clear. But if our Kante isn’t available in this transfer window i’d personally prefer to wait rather than getting in someone who ultimately isn’t what we want but a plan B, C, D, etc that we’re saddled with. Sometimes there are no alternatives to a plan A type of player.
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I believe our owners have pressed the pause button. The plan was built around Grealish staying (that's how Bucks succeeded and I expect we were following the same blueprint). Now that he isn't, plans are being re-assesed and re-drawn and that'll take some time.
I suppose we'll know next summer what it means in regards to our future ambitions but for now I just don't think they want to continue to invest heavily until they know what they want to do going forward.
I think you are right also they have the Las Vegas Villains distraction going on.
Have we actually received a fee for any player moved on? Other than the idiot
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I believe our owners have pressed the pause button. The plan was built around Grealish staying (that's how Bucks succeeded and I expect we were following the same blueprint). Now that he isn't, plans are being re-assesed and re-drawn and that'll take some time.
I suppose we'll know next summer what it means in regards to our future ambitions but for now I just don't think they want to continue to invest heavily until they know what they want to do going forward.
I think you are right also they have the Las Vegas Villains distraction going on.
Have we actually received a fee for any player moved on? Other than the idiot
Samatta?
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Havent had a chance to play them all at once yet! Ill let you know once that happens.
But i think we need a dm enforcer desperately
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It's been good overall. The investment on the academy has impressed me.
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I’m disappointed. We really needed to invest the Grealish money. I know we have signed Buendia, Ings, Bailey, but we really needed more. Personally, the moment Grealish left, the most important signing I think we could have made was a new manager because of Smith’s record over the last 3 seasons without Grealish. Maybe, the owners are well aware of that and aren’t willing to allow Smith to spend more until he proves he can once and for all find a way? I seriously have my doubts as to whether he will as I’ve never seen anything to suggest he can
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I agree with OP. We were led to believe signings were in addition to Grealish. Then told they are to replace him. I don't know how the owners can look at our squad and think we can compete for Europe. Sadly what this window has shown is that we can't retain players at Grealish level and we certainly can't sign them. I hope the owners aren't as dispirited as I am.
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It raises more questions than answers. The first 11 is on paper weaker. The squad maybe stronger but that is debatable at this moment in time and won't be answered until May.
Ings and Buendia are good signings. Ings gives us cover for Ollie and is a brilliant finisher. The squad is unequivocally better with him in it.
Bailey we have no idea really until he's fit and plays but he looks promising. We now have 3 predominantly right wingers all of whom are potentially very good. If the plan is to play one left and one at ten, then buy a 10 and a left winger.
We have lost the 10 that we signed last summer to move us forward, and not replaced him. He wasn't the answer we all agree, but we have not replaced him with a better number 10. Buendia may be able to do it but that will take time and he will have to adapt to playing there.
We only have El Ghazi that is an actual left winger by position. I get that Bailey will likely play there, but he has specifically stated he prefers playing on the right. So our left side has lost one of the best in the world and the jury is out on the choice of replacing him.
We have done nothing in midfield. Where games are won and lost. McGinn and Luiz are good but no one can say they have been consistently so in the prem. Nakamba is very hot and cold. Ramsey is very raw. Chuck even more so. Our options in there are in my opinion nowhere near what we need for top 10, let alone top 7. It is where we will come unstuck the most this season.
Defence is the same but without the influence of Terry. It will be interesting how that plays out. Cash and Targett need to find their levels quickly.
I am going for 14th this season, and 2-3 itchy feet players comeay next year.
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4/10. They've replaced Greasy, but those players are going to take time to get fit and gel etc. Other than that, they haven't fixed the gaping hole in midfield and we''re going to struggle this season.
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Disappointing tbh, we have enriched the squad, as long as everyone is fit, which they are not. The first team is infinitely poorer - you can't lose a near world class player and not suffer.
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4/10 purely on the basis that I think young is an upgrade on last year's back up full backs. I think it can be summed up by the gap to six getting bigger and the gap between us and the likes of Palace possible being smaller. Disappointing but at least we know what we're facing now. We're back among the Evertons of this world, unlikely to ever go higher on a consistent basis and will most likely be selling the crown Jew's each summer. Its still better than what we've had the last few years.
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4/10 purely on the basis that I think young is an upgrade on last year's back up full backs. I think it can be summed up by the gap to six getting bigger and the gap between us and the likes of Palace possible being smaller. Disappointing but at least we know what we're facing now. We're back among the Evertons of this world, unlikely to ever go higher on a consistent basis and will most likely be selling the crown Jew's each summer. Its still better than what we've had the last few years.
Utterly depressing, but sadly accurate.
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First XI Reserves
Goalkeepers Same Weaker
Defenders Same Weaker
Midfielders Same Stronger*
Attackers Stronger Weaker **
6/10 4/10
* Based on like-for-like, not ratboy being the greatest player evoh etc,.
**Based on Ings and Watkins both starting
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The signings we’ve made are fine. We just haven’t done enough, which is really disappointing.
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I think Ratboy really fucked us harder than we knew at the time. The whole vibe changed, I think they expected him to stay and were buying better players to play with him.
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4/10 purely on the basis that I think young is an upgrade on last year's back up full backs. I think it can be summed up by the gap to six getting bigger and the gap between us and the likes of Palace possible being smaller. Disappointing but at least we know what we're facing now. We're back among the Evertons of this world, unlikely to ever go higher on a consistent basis and will most likely be selling the crown Jew's each summer. Its still better than what we've had the last few years.
Utterly depressing, but sadly accurate.
This is how I see it. Think we have been set back 2 years by joe - I don’t see we are in a position to challenge the top half.
I think I would be fairly content if we hadn’t had all this elite club bollocks. We talked the talk - and if we don’t walk the walk players that sign up to the vision will be off.
I don’t think the owners will have settled for that - one setback won’t worry them - but I think the management they have in place don’t know how to push on - I would imagine they will be given some time to see if they can work it out and if not then I think that’s where the owners will become involved.
I think we had one plan - joe - and that came unstuck - and now were not really sure how to bridge the gap.
If we finish lower half I do worry about keeping EMI and Watkins and then that will mean a pretty big rebuild next season
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I think Ratboy really fucked us harder than we knew at the time. The whole vibe changed, I think they expected him to stay and were buying better players to play with him.
I think quite a few were pointing out that if he were to go, our chances of being able to push Top 6 would go with him.
And It’s exactly how it has turned out.
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I think Ratboy really fucked us harder than we knew at the time. The whole vibe changed, I think they expected him to stay and were buying better players to play with him.
I think quite a few were pointing out that if he were to go, our chances of being able to push Top 6 would go with him.
And It’s exactly how it has turned out.
Sorry, what date is it again? Have I slept until May?
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I think Ratboy really fucked us harder than we knew at the time. The whole vibe changed, I think they expected him to stay and were buying better players to play with him.
I think quite a few were pointing out that if he were to go, our chances of being able to push Top 6 would go with him.
And It’s exactly how it has turned out.
Sorry, what date is it again? Have I slept until May?
wush
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It was all a dream LeeB
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I think Ratboy really fucked us harder than we knew at the time. The whole vibe changed, I think they expected him to stay and were buying better players to play with him.
I think quite a few were pointing out that if he were to go, our chances of being able to push Top 6 would go with him.
And It’s exactly how it has turned out.
What? You've no idea.
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I think Ratboy really fucked us harder than we knew at the time. The whole vibe changed, I think they expected him to stay and were buying better players to play with him.
I think quite a few were pointing out that if he were to go, our chances of being able to push Top 6 would go with him.
And It’s exactly how it has turned out.
What? You've no idea.
do you?
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I think Ratboy really fucked us harder than we knew at the time. The whole vibe changed, I think they expected him to stay and were buying better players to play with him.
I think quite a few were pointing out that if he were to go, our chances of being able to push Top 6 would go with him.
And It’s exactly how it has turned out.
What? You've no idea.
do you?
No, that's my point.
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I think Ratboy really fucked us harder than we knew at the time. The whole vibe changed, I think they expected him to stay and were buying better players to play with him.
I think quite a few were pointing out that if he were to go, our chances of being able to push Top 6 would go with him.
And It’s exactly how it has turned out.
What? You've no idea.
do you?
No, that's my point.
I did not understand LeeB comment and then you were equally obtuse.
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It raises more questions than answers. The first 11 is on paper weaker. The squad maybe stronger but that is debatable at this moment in time and won't be answered until May.
Ings and Buendia are good signings. Ings gives us cover for Ollie and is a brilliant finisher. The squad is unequivocally better with him in it.
Bailey we have no idea really until he's fit and plays but he looks promising. We now have 3 predominantly right wingers all of whom are potentially very good. If the plan is to play one left and one at ten, then buy a 10 and a left winger.
We have lost the 10 that we signed last summer to move us forward, and not replaced him. He wasn't the answer we all agree, but we have not replaced him with a better number 10. Buendia may be able to do it but that will take time and he will have to adapt to playing there.
We only have El Ghazi that is an actual left winger by position. I get that Bailey will likely play there, but he has specifically stated he prefers playing on the right. So our left side has lost one of the best in the world and the jury is out on the choice of replacing him.
We have done nothing in midfield. Where games are won and lost. McGinn and Luiz are good but no one can say they have been consistently so in the prem. Nakamba is very hot and cold. Ramsey is very raw. Chuck even more so. Our options in there are in my opinion nowhere near what we need for top 10, let alone top 7. It is where we will come unstuck the most this season.
Defence is the same but without the influence of Terry. It will be interesting how that plays out. Cash and Targett need to find their levels quickly.
I am going for 14th this season, and 2-3 itchy feet players comeay next year.
I agree with all of this.
It just all seems really odd. One minute, we're keeping Jack, signing Buendia and looking for a class midfielder like JWP and the next we've signed an (excellent) stiker, a couple of right wingers and we're done? About £10m in the black for the window?
And I'm sick of the 'better fans than yow' on Twitter & FB moaning at the moaners. (There's always more people moaning at the moaners than there are moaners over there - they love the validation that they are suchj great fans).
I love that we've got some kids coming through, but we need squad depth. The likes of Chuck should be getting minutes as a sub, not someone we should be banking our season on. Nakamba shouldn't really be anywhere near the first XI.
We seem to have a squad of square pegs and round holes and this doesn't look anything like a top 6 challenging team to me.
With all of that said, I think individually Ings, Buendia & Bailey are all decent signings. But if we want to compete surely we need more? And will there ever be a better opportunity to close the gap and find the players we need with clubs all over Europe in financial difficulty?
It's just all a bit odd.
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I think Ratboy really fucked us harder than we knew at the time. The whole vibe changed, I think they expected him to stay and were buying better players to play with him.
We knew Jack would probably go and had planned for it. Call him daft names all you want but the club knew this was likely, had supposedly planned for it and have a huge amount of financial clout to deal with it should they want to. The fact they don't is what seems so perplexing.
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I think it's fanciful to expect great leaps when our net spend is minus. As Alan Shearer famously said "if you stand still, you go backwards". Our additions have been fine but we still look short of making the progress so many desire. There is a lot of faith invested in some of the youngsters and this will hopefully be rewarded but I can't help thinking that this will be an up and down season of consolidation. The problem for the manager is the lack of patience in the game these days.
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We started off well and did good buisness. We replaced Jack the best we could. But we’ve been left behind by a few teams now and I think this year will be a 1 step back year after plenty of steps forward. A missed opportunity? Maybe.
I predict us to finish between 12th - 14th.
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Full Squad
Martinez
Steer
Sinisalo
Cash
Tuanzebe in
Konsa
Mings
Hause
Targett
Young in
Luiz
McGinn
Sanson
Nakamba
Ramsey
Chukwuemeka
Bailey in
Buendia in
AEG
Traore
JPB
Trezeguet
Ings in
Watkins
Archer
Davis (finally spelling his name correctly.)
I've left out players that have gone on loan.
I suspect the lack of 'in' in the midfield is the worry for most.
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Gone backwards.
Losing Jack is a disaster, one that could be mitigated if the money was well used - but it hasn't been used this window.
Buendia, Bailey and Ings are all very good signings. Problem is that they have made us very lopsided and fitting them in means a change to a system we do not have the players for in other areas.
Young and Tuanzebe are OK temporary cover, replacing loaned out or sold cover. No real uplift, just a holding position.
Problems the signings have created as I see it are as follows:
1. I do not like the look of any formation that fits all of Bailey, Buendia, Ings and Watkins in. It means a two man midfield which we simply do not have the right players for.
2. Traore is one of our best players, but he now has Buendia and Bailey in front of him. I absolutely think we needed a right winger to cover the loss of Trez to injury, but not two of them.
3. Grealish was our best player, and now we have only El Ghazi as a true left winger. We seem to have replaced him with either Bailey (a right sided player), or Watkins being shifted out of position.
4. We needed a number 10 to replace Barkley, but have not signed one. Instead we have the options of playing Buendia or Ings out of position. Either of which would leave the midfield right open.
5. We have lost a very good defensive coach and not replaced him.
6. We have reduced cover in Goal, and are now in a position where we are already looking at our second choice keeper playing important games against Chelsea and maybe more. Had Heaton stayed this would not be an issue.
7. Our midfield has lots of number 8s and no no 10s or no. 6s of any note. This has been an issue since Bruce came in and it beggars belief we have not taken the opportunity to sort it out.
Meanwhile Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool, Man City, Arsenal, Leicester and Spurs have improved their squads making the task of getting into Europe more difficult.
I still think we sign a player that allows us to better use our players in formations that suit them, but if we don't I give this window a 4 out of 10. Predict we finish 14th and struggle to hold on to Emi 1 and Watkins next season if that happens.
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I think Ratboy really fucked us harder than we knew at the time. The whole vibe changed, I think they expected him to stay and were buying better players to play with him.
We knew Jack would probably go and had planned for it. Call him daft names all you want but the club knew this was likely, had supposedly planned for it and have a huge amount of financial clout to deal with it should they want to. The fact they don't is what seems so perplexing.
Aren't you a better person then.
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We lost the Big One which is so annoying on every level despite humungous recompense.
Young - excellent full back cover and good experience in dressing room. No longer a midfielder
Bailey - exciting and bags of potential
Buendia - no brainer and annoyed the hell out of Gooners. Just hoping slow start isn't Curcicesque.
Ings - needed someone to supplement Ollie. Wesley is unlikely to make it and Davies never will at this level.
Still think MF balance isn't right and would like another sitter and play McGinn further up v better team
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The summer business was decent. The club stated they had been planning for Grealish leaving. The incoming players of Ings Buendia and Bailey, should make us stronger overall. Young coming in has been a bonus and probably you could say, he’s had a significant impact already.
What’s fucked us is a disrupted preseason where we’ve had the likes of Targett not match fit, but he’s probably 90% there now; injuries Bailey and Watkins, now Konsa by the looks of things; and COVID with MCGinn.
The start to the season has been OK under these circumstances and I only see us improving. Watford was a wake up call, we beat Newcastle almost at a canter and I thought we’d draw against a solid Brentford side and we got a point. I really don’t think we can be pointing the finger at Smith or the club at this stage for the most part. Also think we have a lot of depth from the Youth to fill gaps if needed and should also be pushing them forward to integrate with the first team towards the end of the season/ next summer.
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Always uncomfortable relying on one player, undoubted talent yet everytime he got injured and was missing for a few weeks the performance of the team dropped away alarmingly. Everything went through him, he demanded the ball he got it even when he was closely marked. There was no balance in the team we were solely reliant on one player every game to turn it on, you can see it in other teams, Newcastle, Wolves for example. I am not happy about not strengthening midfield but I am happy that we are no longer a one player team.
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Underwhelming. I think compared to our business last summer, it’s a step backwards.
I really thought the club would try to kick on this summer - while I like the signings we have made I don’t think any of them are real marquee signings that have made others sit up - we have made steady progress only.
The fact the message appears to be that a repeat of last season would be a good season is a bit alarming - that rationale makes sense if the ambition is to slowly and steadily progress but I thought (perhaps my misreading of the ambition) that we would realize this summer was another big opportunity to upgrade (quality and quantity).
The goings on behind the scenes perhaps suggest the owners are on the fence re how far Dean can take us. Perhaps they realize that any change in management will come with a hefty transfer budget next year.
All supposition but underwhelmed is where I’m at.
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Right now I'd give it 6-7/10
Young > Taylor and much more versatile
Tuanzebe > Engels and more versatile
Buendia > Barkley
Ings > Davis/Wesley
Bailey < Grealish but still a decent replacement and, with the other signings, might make us a better team anyway
Heaton not replaced (but I do rate Sinisalo so I'm less bothered by this)
Elmo not replaced (if Guilbert is going)
DM not signed
If we address the last one today it'll be a 8-9/10 and if Bailey settles in as we hope it'll be even better.
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Underwhelming. I think compared to our business last summer, it’s a step backwards.
I really thought the club would try to kick on this summer - while I like the signings we have made I don’t think any of them are real marquee signings that have made others sit up - we have made steady progress only.
The fact the message appears to be that a repeat of last season would be a good season is a bit alarming - that rationale makes sense if the ambition is to slowly and steadily progress but I thought (perhaps my misreading of the ambition) that we would realize this summer was another big opportunity to upgrade (quality and quantity).
The goings on behind the scenes perhaps suggest the owners are on the fence re how far Dean can take us. Perhaps they realize that any change in management will come with a hefty transfer budget next year.
All supposition but underwhelmed is where I’m at.
Seems a sensible reading of the situation
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Gone backwards.
Losing Jack is a disaster, one that could be mitigated if the money was well used - but it hasn't been used this window.
Buendia, Bailey and Ings are all very good signings. Problem is that they have made us very lopsided and fitting them in means a change to a system we do not have the players for in other areas.
Young and Tuanzebe are OK temporary cover, replacing loaned out or sold cover. No real uplift, just a holding position.
Problems the signings have created as I see it are as follows:
1. I do not like the look of any formation that fits all of Bailey, Buendia, Ings and Watkins in. It means a two man midfield which we simply do not have the right players for.
2. Traore is one of our best players, but he now has Buendia and Bailey in front of him. I absolutely think we needed a right winger to cover the loss of Trez to injury, but not two of them.
3. Grealish was our best player, and now we have only El Ghazi as a true left winger. We seem to have replaced him with either Bailey (a right sided player), or Watkins being shifted out of position.
4. We needed a number 10 to replace Barkley, but have not signed one. Instead we have the options of playing Buendia or Ings out of position. Either of which would leave the midfield right open.
5. We have lost a very good defensive coach and not replaced him.
6. We have reduced cover in Goal, and are now in a position where we are already looking at our second choice keeper playing important games against Chelsea and maybe more. Had Heaton stayed this would not be an issue.
7. Our midfield has lots of number 8s and no no 10s or no. 6s of any note. This has been an issue since Bruce came in and it beggars belief we have not taken the opportunity to sort it out.
Meanwhile Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool, Man City, Arsenal, Leicester and Spurs have improved their squads making the task of getting into Europe more difficult.
I still think we sign a player that allows us to better use our players in formations that suit them, but if we don't I give this window a 4 out of 10. Predict we finish 14th and struggle to hold on to Emi 1 and Watkins next season if that happens.
This is absolutely spot on for me, looking at the signings in isolation you'd say we've done ok business, but then when you try to make a decent XI out of it you can see where we fall short vs other teams. Such a missed opportunity unless we pull something out of the bag today.
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I think we’ve missed an opportunity. I like all of our signings, but we haven’t done enough. We do have some really promising youngsters, but we’ve loaded pressure on them. It’s been said ad nauseum but there’s a clear gap in midfield that we haven’t addressed. I’m utterly bewildered that we haven’t managed to plug that gap.
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I find the zero net spend a bit concerning. Hopefully the owners haven’t lost a bit of heart with Grealish leaving?
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6 for me, 7-8 if the mythical DM of some reputation arrives in next 11 hours but looks pretty unlikely given no serious links this morning.
Lots of doom and gloom around currently but think it's far too early, I mean we are missing at least 5 proper first team players so think it's only fair to judge when they're all fit and have strung a couple of games together as a unit.
I think Bailey is an incredibly exciting signing based on his level in Bundesliga for consistant top 6 club, just got to get him out on the pitch. Ings and Buendia also excited plenty of people when they signed and they've had their moments on the pitch.
Interesting how many neutrals are saying outside top clubs we've done the best business of the mid range clubs. Just listening to Simon Jordan now and he's saying Bailey and Ings are brilliant signings for us and with Watkins in the mix it will be a very dangerous attack for many teams and he's not the only one saying that in pundit world so think we need to give this season time to develop.
Still think it's an issue how long we're taking to get over one player leaving. Just checked and he left on 4th August so it's been one day off a month now. It will simply not do the morale of the club any good if people are on here whining day after day about him as the season goes on. I bet any Leicester fan who has a look on here will be chuckling, someone like Kante left after just one season and they just shrugged their shoulders and got on with it, same with Maguire and Mahrez. Now Leicester are an established top 6 club that wins stuff.
Doubt Spurs would have been mourning all season long if Kane had gone. Just need to get on with things now and support the players playing for us.
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I'll tell you in about March.
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I think losing Joe means that our first-choice 11 is possibly marginally weaker now, than it was last season. Possibly. I think it's very close. Especially if you think of Bailey as his replacement, and Buendia instead of Barkley (or whoever played that position), and Ings playing either with Ollie or instead of him (depending on formation).
If Bailey is as good as people hope then I think it might be a better 11 this season, but we won't know that for a while yet, until everyone is fit and bedded in. He doesn't have to be at Joe's level to make that 11 better than last season, because there are improvements elsewhere too, but if the drop off from Joe to Bailey isn't that big, then our starting team is probably better.
However, I would say our matchday squad is DEFINITELY better than last season. Football is pretty much a 14-man game now, and I would say the 14 we can put on the pitch in any given game is now definitely better than any 14 we could have put out last season. So I think that is progress.
Dean was often criticised for his reluctance to make substitutions last season - and I wonder if that will change now that we will have 2 or 3 solid game-changing options on the bench, regardless of the formation we play, and whatever 11 he chooses to start with (barring injury, obv).
So, first 11 possibly slightly weaker, but marginally so - but a stronger match-day squad. I think that's probably a solid B- for me. Would be an A if we'd got a DCM too.
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The zero net spend some people may find concerning but it doesn't mean we haven't tried to get more people in. My gut instinct based on very little is that we have tried and failed. Not much can be done about it if who we want doesn't want to come. I'd be surprised if we only tried to JWP and ESR but no-one else. It's a shame we haven't got a star DM coming through the ranks but I don't think Smith wants one anyway (which I disagree with).
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Sometimes the transfer window can skew everything and cause imbalance or create a near perfect team, thinking back to Little's summer of 95. We will have to see and I will reserve judgment for a few months.
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The DCM is so important as it is them that enables the creative players to go and play. Signing a quality one will be bring out the best out of the players in front of them, take the pressure of youngsters and the pressure of the defence. Given we haven't a spent anything other than the grealish money I would have thought we could make this happen if we wanted.
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Still a few hours left for nothing to happen.
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Still a few hours left for nothing to happen.
Made me chuckle Legion.
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It would have been nice to get another midfielder in but this is such a statement of faith in our current squad, players who have yet to contribute fully like Sanson, and more specifically players like both Ramsey’s, JPB and Chuckie. Maybe both him and his bro. We have to give those players a chance. The money is there, so nothing to be concerned about financially.
But Dean Smith firstly has to hope we get past all of these injuries and players missing through COVID. We have lots of depth of those young players step up, but we won’t feel that immediately. It will take time to come together. And with Ollie, Bert, Bailey also set to come back it’s really not as bad we think it is.
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Too many players in midfield that have been found wanting in the past, or just breaking through and not ready to play
a senior role. Fingers crossed for the next few hours.
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The DCM is so important as it is them that enables the creative players to go and play. Signing a quality one will be bring out the best out of the players in front of them
I'd liken it to buying Marks and Spencers premium range bacon and sausage and then going home and putting it on some cheap ass smart price thin cut white bread near the sell by date that you had in the cupboard rather than buying the M&S fresh baked bloomer whilst you're there and putting it with that.
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It would have been nice to get another midfielder in but this is such a statement of faith in our current squad, players who have yet to contribute fully like Sanson, and more specifically players like both Ramsey’s, JPB and Chuckie. Maybe both him and his bro. We have to give those players a chance. The money is there, so nothing to be concerned about financially.
But Dean Smith firstly has to hope we get past all of these injuries and players missing through COVID. We have lots of depth of those young players step up, but we won’t feel that immediately. It will take time to come together. And with Ollie, Bert, Bailey also set to come back it’s really not as bad we think it is.
That's all lovely, but none of them are defensive midfielders. The main reason why West Ham look so much better than us for the last season and a bit is that Noble and Soucek are both great players. They play in a position that suits them, and they make the rest of the team tick. Compare that to McGinn and Luiz, both played out of position, and both who regularly don't look as good as they undoubtedly can be.
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We were short up front and lost two, added to this our main striker is injured. I can't imagine the board are happy that we signed Wesley for a record fee and are happy to get rid. Davis is never given the chance and is questionable whether he can cut it at this level? Guilbert is certainly no better or worse than any other option we have in that position, so I feel another backward step if you consider losing Elmo as well. As for midfield we've lost our best player, signed Buendia and already he's been pushed out of position. Despite how impressive Chukwemeka was on saturday should we really be throwing in young players this early in the season? Bailey looks decent but another one who clearly had an injury when we signed him.
I don't think we've strengthened the problem areas from last season, add to thsat losing our best player by an absolute mile and we will do well to consolidate this season.
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It would have been nice to get another midfielder in but this is such a statement of faith in our current squad, players who have yet to contribute fully like Sanson, and more specifically players like both Ramsey’s, JPB and Chuckie. Maybe both him and his bro. We have to give those players a chance. The money is there, so nothing to be concerned about financially.
But Dean Smith firstly has to hope we get past all of these injuries and players missing through COVID. We have lots of depth of those young players step up, but we won’t feel that immediately. It will take time to come together. And with Ollie, Bert, Bailey also set to come back it’s really not as bad we think it is.
Signing the defensive midfielder we need isn't going to hinder any of those players.
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One thing as well it's our seriously rough upcoming run of fixtures, holy shit. Two rough months. Chelsea, Everton, Man United, Spurs, Wolves, Arsenal, West Ham. Plus Chelsea in the League Cup. One team we finished above last year, and probably the best one of those at that, which also happens to be a derby. It's not an exaggeration to say that double figures in points might be a tall order before October with this midfield. But we shall see!
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One thing as well it's our seriously rough upcoming run of fixtures, holy shit. Two rough months. Chelsea, Everton, Man United, Spurs, Wolves, Arsenal, West Ham. Plus Chelsea in the League Cup. One team we finished above last year, and probably the best one of those at that, which also happens to be a derby. It's not an exaggeration to say that double figures in points might be a tall order before October with this midfield. But we shall see!
Exactly my worry Monty. Then you are picking them up and trying to get them going. It is what it is. Imagine if we sold Luiz to Roma this pm lol. Meltdown might start then.
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One thing as well it's our seriously rough upcoming run of fixtures, holy shit. Two rough months. Chelsea, Everton, Man United, Spurs, Wolves, Arsenal, West Ham. Plus Chelsea in the League Cup. One team we finished above last year, and probably the best one of those at that, which also happens to be a derby. It's not an exaggeration to say that double figures in points might be a tall order before October with this midfield. But we shall see!
I understand that you're upset about the team but this is far too pessimistic, there's 1 game in that list that I wouldn't expect anything from and that's purely because us being screwed by a shitty referee against Man U is a national tradition at this point.
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Gone backwards.
Losing Jack is a disaster, one that could be mitigated if the money was well used - but it hasn't been used this window.
Buendia, Bailey and Ings are all very good signings. Problem is that they have made us very lopsided and fitting them in means a change to a system we do not have the players for in other areas.
Young and Tuanzebe are OK temporary cover, replacing loaned out or sold cover. No real uplift, just a holding position.
I think you undervalue Young and Tuanzebe in your 'OK temporary cover' remark: both have shown they are an upgrade on our previous options.
1. I do not like the look of any formation that fits all of Bailey, Buendia, Ings and Watkins in. It means a two man midfield which we simply do not have the right players for.
I disagree with your 2-man midfield assumption. Buendia can play in a 3-man midfield, meaning we can play 4-3-3 with ease once all the players are fit and available.
2. Traore is one of our best players, but he now has Buendia and Bailey in front of him. I absolutely think we needed a right winger to cover the loss of Trez to injury, but not two of them.
Injuries will always mean having good cover is a good thing, and - anyway - you assume that Buendia was bought to play as an out-and-out winger.
3. Grealish was our best player, and now we have only El Ghazi as a true left winger. We seem to have replaced him with either Bailey (a right sided player), or Watkins being shifted out of position
Both Bailey and Buendia are strong off both feet.
4. We needed a number 10 to replace Barkley, but have not signed one. Instead we have the options of playing Buendia or Ings out of position. Either of which would leave the midfield right open.
Buendia has played #10 comfortably in the past. Furthermore, with a decent DMF McGinn, Sanson and Ramsey can play #10
5. We have lost a very good defensive coach and not replaced him.
- true; let's see how that is dealt with.
6. We have reduced cover in Goal, and are now in a position where we are already looking at our second choice keeper playing important games against Chelsea and maybe more. Had Heaton stayed this would not be an issue.
Maybe Heaton did not want to stay with us. Maybe Sinisalo will do a decent job. I share some of your concern.
7. Our midfield has lots of number 8s and no no 10s or no. 6s of any note. This has been an issue since Bruce came in and it beggars belief we have not taken the opportunity to sort it out.
Maybe your point simply illustrates your concern for numbers and positions. I think we have lots of variety in our midfield options, some of which players do different jobs for their countries or have done for previous clubs.
Meanwhile Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool, Man City, Arsenal, Leicester and Spurs have improved their squads making the task of getting into Europe more difficult
agreed that our competition has not got any weaker; it was ever thus.
The opportunity we missed, IMO, was to continue the buying spree in the early transfer period in July - if we'd paid out for a decent DMF (perhaps over the odds on pricing) early, we'd not be scraping around for one on the last day of the transfer window.
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One thing as well it's our seriously rough upcoming run of fixtures, holy shit. Two rough months. Chelsea, Everton, Man United, Spurs, Wolves, Arsenal, West Ham. Plus Chelsea in the League Cup. One team we finished above last year, and probably the best one of those at that, which also happens to be a derby. It's not an exaggeration to say that double figures in points might be a tall order before October with this midfield. But we shall see!
I understand that you're upset about the team but this is far too pessimistic, there's 1 game in that list that I wouldn't expect anything from and that's purely because us being screwed by a shitty referee against Man U is a national tradition at this point.
And not Chelsea? I'd say we're firm second-favourites in four of those league games, mild second-favourites in one and about even in a couple. Double figures means either two wins or a win and three draws, from a run of games in which we're not favourites once. I'd call that a very tough run and a tall order.
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That’s a work of art that post Mister E
I struggle just to not double post
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Can people stop repeating the false assumption that Bailey is a right winger, it's just not true, he plays on both wings but has started on the left more than the right.
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/leon-bailey/profil/spieler/387626 (https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/leon-bailey/profil/spieler/387626)
(https://i.ibb.co/1Jj1TcT/Screenshot-2021-08-31-145355.png) (https://ibb.co/1Jj1TcT)
image hosting (https://imgbb.com/)
He has been signed to play mainly from the left but with the option to swap sides.
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That’s a work of art that post Mister E
I struggle just to not double post
Thank you, John. I admire your poetry-in-motion posts!
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It would have been nice to get another midfielder in but this is such a statement of faith in our current squad, players who have yet to contribute fully like Sanson, and more specifically players like both Ramsey’s, JPB and Chuckie. Maybe both him and his bro. We have to give those players a chance. The money is there, so nothing to be concerned about financially.
But Dean Smith firstly has to hope we get past all of these injuries and players missing through COVID. We have lots of depth of those young players step up, but we won’t feel that immediately. It will take time to come together. And with Ollie, Bert, Bailey also set to come back it’s really not as bad we think it is.
That's all lovely, but none of them are defensive midfielders. The main reason why West Ham look so much better than us for the last season and a bit is that Noble and Soucek are both great players. They play in a position that suits them, and they make the rest of the team tick. Compare that to McGinn and Luiz, both played out of position, and both who regularly don't look as good as they undoubtedly can be.
I don’t disagree with you which then suggests the manager doesn’t want to play that system. Which I don’t agree with but it’s what he wants and ultimately if it fails what he will need to accept as the consequence of that decision. I think he wants a more robust overall team where all players contribute to attack and defence so it remains to be seen if that works.
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The opportunity we missed, IMO, was to continue the buying spree in the early transfer period in July - if we'd paid out for a decent DMF (perhaps over the odds on pricing) early, we'd not be scraping around for one on the last day of the transfer window.
Who says we are? All the suggestion is we're done. I hope the suggestions are wrong of course.
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It will be absolutely outrageous if we don't get a CDM in.
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I don't think we were just short of quality going into this window, but numbers too. We're basically on a par between outs and ins. Okay, we might say that Bailey/Ings/Beundia is potentially adequate to 'replace' Jack. Ash is an upgrade on Elmo/Taylor.
Wesley going makes no difference because if we're all being honest, he was shit before the injury and he'll be worse after. A sad reality of such a horrible injury. So even Keinan offers more to the team, and perhaps Archer may surprise.
I think we were short of what we needed by 1-2 players. I appreciate Hourihane and Guilbert need game time but they're our players, both could do a job. Hourihane given games tends to deliver goals/assists (he could have offered something in these opening three games when we could barely put a decent ball in the box). He may be out of his depth in bigger games, but a few injuries and we've got to rely on Sansom who may not adapt immediately and Ramsey who is a kid. Likewise our cover for both fullbacks is a 37 year old and two CH's. Guilbert should have stayed, and been given game time. Cash hasn't started too well this season and in terms of the energy and attacking ability you get down the right from an in form Cash, Freddy is the closest.
Given we've not added I think we may well regret letting those two go. We've also got a lot riding on Beundia and Bailey coming off. Beundia is the only player who can do the cute things Jack could too. To see a pass in the attacking third, a bit of vision. To be that 10. Ashley at a push could fill that gap, as long as you have a solid base behind doing the leg work (he wasn't great as an '8' against Brentford).
I'm happy to see the kids get games, but getting to a point we may need to rely on them is dangerous. I don't think we're close to competing top 6. We're a 10th topout, but we're a couple of bad injuries from battling dangerously close to the bottom.
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I'm in this odd position that I actually hope Smith's plan is to do something I don't like - namely this Southampton high-press 4-4-2 business - as that would at least explain the apparent lack of interest in playing pass-and-move through the middle third of the pitch. Still constitutes a risky amount of faith in our midfielders (in fact arguably an even riskier amount) but there we are
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One thing as well it's our seriously rough upcoming run of fixtures, holy shit. Two rough months. Chelsea, Everton, Man United, Spurs, Wolves, Arsenal, West Ham. Plus Chelsea in the League Cup. One team we finished above last year, and probably the best one of those at that, which also happens to be a derby. It's not an exaggeration to say that double figures in points might be a tall order before October with this midfield. But we shall see!
I understand that you're upset about the team but this is far too pessimistic, there's 1 game in that list that I wouldn't expect anything from and that's purely because us being screwed by a shitty referee against Man U is a national tradition at this point.
And not Chelsea? I'd say we're firm second-favourites in four of those league games, mild second-favourites in one and about even in a couple. Double figures means either two wins or a win and three draws, from a run of games in which we're not favourites once. I'd call that a very tough run and a tall order.
We took points from all but Man U and West Ham last season and the latter involved a ridiculous decision to rule out an equaliser and a missed penalty. We have lost a good player, we all know that, but we've added some good players in return and haven't really had chance to see what the team can be with this squad yet because of injuries and covid which will hopefully be better once we're back underway.
That said I do think Chelsea will be too soon because of Emi 1 and 2 both missing it and I would be more confident with a proper DM but I think it's a bit early to be waving a white flag and hoping there are 3 teams worse than us which i think you're getting very close to.
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Can people stop repeating the false assumption that Bailey is a right winger, it's just not true, he plays on both wings but has started on the left more than the right.
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/leon-bailey/profil/spieler/387626 (https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/leon-bailey/profil/spieler/387626)
(https://i.ibb.co/1Jj1TcT/Screenshot-2021-08-31-145355.png) (https://ibb.co/1Jj1TcT)
image hosting (https://imgbb.com/)
He has been signed to play mainly from the left but with the option to swap sides.
If you look at the detail, he started the majority of the games from right wing last season.
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Sigh, well, I should cheerlead better I guess? I'm not saying there are three worse teams than us, I'm just saying I think there are perhaps 13 who are better. Which I would find disappointing. But we'll judge them start the next few games.
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Can people stop repeating the false assumption that Bailey is a right winger, it's just not true, he plays on both wings but has started on the left more than the right.
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/leon-bailey/profil/spieler/387626 (https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/leon-bailey/profil/spieler/387626)
(https://i.ibb.co/1Jj1TcT/Screenshot-2021-08-31-145355.png) (https://ibb.co/1Jj1TcT)
image hosting (https://imgbb.com/)
He has been signed to play mainly from the left but with the option to swap sides.
If you look at the detail, he started the majority of the games from right wing last season.
Yes, for the first time in his career. I don't know why you're still arguing this (other than as an excuse to moan about signings) it's in black and white that he plays on both sides and always has.
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I'm not arguing it. He has stated he prefers to play on the right. I said in a previous post that he will probably play left but it is not his preference.
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I don't think we were just short of quality going into this window, but numbers too. We're basically on a par between outs and ins. Okay, we might say that Bailey/Ings/Beundia is potentially adequate to 'replace' Jack. Ash is an upgrade on Elmo/Taylor.
Wesley going makes no difference because if we're all being honest, he was shit before the injury and he'll be worse after. A sad reality of such a horrible injury. So even Keinan offers more to the team, and perhaps Archer may surprise.
I think we were short of what we needed by 1-2 players. I appreciate Hourihane and Guilbert need game time but they're our players, both could do a job. Hourihane given games tends to deliver goals/assists (he could have offered something in these opening three games when we could barely put a decent ball in the box). He may be out of his depth in bigger games, but a few injuries and we've got to rely on Sansom who may not adapt immediately and Ramsey who is a kid. Likewise our cover for both fullbacks is a 37 year old and two CH's. Guilbert should have stayed, and been given game time. Cash hasn't started too well this season and in terms of the energy and attacking ability you get down the right from an in form Cash, Freddy is the closest.
Given we've not added I think we may well regret letting those two go. We've also got a lot riding on Beundia and Bailey coming off. Beundia is the only player who can do the cute things Jack could too. To see a pass in the attacking third, a bit of vision. To be that 10. Ashley at a push could fill that gap, as long as you have a solid base behind doing the leg work (he wasn't great as an '8' against Brentford).
I'm happy to see the kids get games, but getting to a point we may need to rely on them is dangerous. I don't think we're close to competing top 6. We're a 10th topout, but we're a couple of bad injuries from battling dangerously close to the bottom.
Absolutely spot on
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I'm not arguing it. He has stated he prefers to play on the right. I said in a previous post that he will probably play left but it is not his preference.
it wasn't joes preference either but you, and others, weren't claiming we didn't have a left winger in the squad when he was here.
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I still think Dean wants Ollie to play inside left vs AEG as a defined left winger. I think Bailey will play on the right mostly alternating with Traore, and Buendia will play in the number 10 role.
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I still think Dean wants Ollie to play inside left vs AEG as a defined left winger. I think Bailey will play on the right mostly alternating with Traore, and Buendia will play in the number 10 role.
Agreed, with Ings in the middle for the tap-in opportunities generated.
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I hope it's not that simple. As a preference I'd like Ings, Watkins, Bailey, Buendia, Traore, El Ghazi and JPB to all get enough gametime in various roles that we become a lot less predictable in our line up and we keep all of them fresh.
My point really was that there's no evidence to backup the claim that we sold a left winger and replaced him with a striker and 2 right wingers and yet I've seen that repeated far too many times, both on here and on social media. If you want to complain about our business focus on centre midfield rather than creating another position to complain about that seems to be perfectly well covered within the squad.
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I think Bailey will play more so on the right as opposed to on the left.
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Building on my earlier thoughts, Dean Smith has met most success playing a transitional 433 formation, and I think our transfer business reflects his continued desire to play that formation 9 times out of 10.
Given that: his first 11 is pretty clear
The back 5: Martinez, Cash, Mings, Konsa, Targett
The middle 3: McGinn, Buendia, Luiz
The front 3: Watkins, Bailey, Traore
Looking then at this summer's business:
Bailey gets a 9/10 - straight into the first XI when fit, a clear upgrade
Buendia gets 8/10 - conceptually, Jack's replacement
Young gets 6/10 - experienced head, versatile, but not a first XI pick
Ings gets 7/10 - experienced, a clear upgrade and strong back up for Watkins
Tuanzebe gets 6/10 - strong potential, good back up for both CD (but a loan is a loan)
With Trez, AEG providing back up up for Bailey/Traore, and a bunch of young promising midfielders in Ramsay, Carney, and JPB in and around the first XI this year, the squad looks promising when fully fit. And the latter is key - compare the first XI/formation above with the team we put out against Brentford - 5 of that predicted ideal first XI were missing (& more importantly 4 of the front 6 robbing us of a lot of attacking threat).
The big question is Sanson. The club clearly rate him else one has to assume they would not have said what they said and did what they did. I can see he becomes key when and if Dean wants to shuffle into either a more defense oriented 442 or 4141.
As such I have talked myself into a slightly more positive position now than earlier. We have real quality and experience in our first XI including 7 internationally capped players. And our bench will consist of half players that were regular first XI last year which has to demonstrate progress.
Would I have liked one more quality signing - yes - and as others have said an international DM would be my pick as would give Dean more versatility to change formation. I think the interest in JWP and ESR was real and evident this was the plan - that they did not come off probably is the disappointment, and places more pressure on Sanson if and when we see him in a Villa shirt.
Silly statement to make but we just need those big first XI players back fit and optimism remains for a good season.
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I think Ings is above a 7. That was a seriously good signing.
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I think all signs point to the 4-2-2-2. Dean said he didn't see Ollie as a wide player, Ings played as the deeper striker at Southampton with a runner ahead of him, the apparent JWP-or-nothing strategy with the midfield, Buendía the wide playmaker, Bailey who can provide width as well as cut in - I think it all points there.
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I think all signs point to the 4-2-2-2. Dean said he didn't see Ollie as a wide player, Ings played as the deeper striker at Southampton with a runner ahead of him, the apparent JWP-or-nothing strategy with the midfield, Buendía the wide playmaker, Bailey who can provide width as well as cut in - I think it all points there.
I think it points to that as an option rather than the only choice that will play come what may. 3 games in with us never having a chance to pick from a full squad makes it hard to draw conclusions but putting together all the comments from Smith in the last few months I think we'll rotate the team and shape a lot more this year than we did before. I might be wrong of course but we've changed shape in all 3 games so far so I think there's fair evidence to back me up.
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I think all signs point to the 4-2-2-2. Dean said he didn't see Ollie as a wide player, Ings played as the deeper striker at Southampton with a runner ahead of him, the apparent JWP-or-nothing strategy with the midfield, Buendía the wide playmaker, Bailey who can provide width as well as cut in - I think it all points there.
How does that look on a pitch ?
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I don't doubt he wants to be more versatile, he did say that as well over the summer. Everyone, however, has a base style, and a first choice set-up to suit it. You can't drill two different basic identities of play at once. And my feeling is that the plan is to play pretty direct, pretty compact, press fiercely from the front and to worry much more about turnovers than possession. That to me says a 4-2-2-2 is the most likely basic shape.
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I think it might be a system without a left or right winger so we’ll never really get to find out which side Bailey plays, which would be a shame.
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I think it’s a pretty good window, given the high profile departure, with progress in a few areas. Our squad’s better than last year.
As a number of times over the years, the frustration is we stopped one to two signings short of a truly great window. This time it’s deflating as we came in thinking we’re on a rapid rise to European challengers under our new owners, and we were linked with exciting midfield signings early in the window. It’s a bit of a mystery why we didn’t get someone in there.
Challenging for top 6 is now probably not realistic, but we should still be good for 10th-12th; stability following the recent rapid rise and the loss of Grealish wouldn’t be a total disaster.
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I think Ings is above a 7. That was a seriously good signing.
If he makes more than 15 starts I'll agree with you. I suspect he'll be on the bench and brought on as an option more often than not and because of that, can't give the signing more than a 7.
Once our players return fit, we'll all know a lot more, thats clear.
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Well if you’re on a bit of a downer with our window as a whole with the lack of midfield reinforcement, things could be a lot worse. Sheffield Wed fans, following on from their relegation to the third tier of English football have just seen things go from bad to worse as they’ve now signed Saido Beraheno on deadline day.
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Very disappointed - the club knew Grealish was very likely to go all along.
These are estimated figures since the end of last season taken from the end of last week:
Estimated net spend (£m)
Man Utd 133
Arsenal 105
Man City 80
Leicester 58
Crystal Palace 45
Brentford 34
Chelsea 27
Leeds 27
Newcastle 26
Norwich 20
Watford 15
Liverpool 11
Burnley 4
West Ham 1
Everton 1
Wolves -5
Tottenham -9
Southampton -17
Aston Villa -20
Brighton -27
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I think Ings is above a 7. That was a seriously good signing.
If he makes more than 15 starts I'll agree with you. I suspect he'll be on the bench and brought on as an option more often than not and because of that, can't give the signing more than a 7.
Once our players return fit, we'll all know a lot more, that's clear.
I'll be amazed if Ings spends more time on the bench than on the pitch. I also can't see how Dean's first 11 is "pretty clear". I think this is probably the most difficult it's been to pick our first choice 11 for probably more than ten years. I think you could ask a dozen villa fans what should be our first choice eleven given the squad as it is today and you would get five or six different line-ups (they'd all have the same defence though!).
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We may have strengthened the squad, but the team will be worse than the with Grealish team.
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We may have strengthened the squad, but the team will be worse than the with Grealish team.
That's sort of where I am, but that was always likely given the quality of the player we lost - but I'm not convinced the team will "definitely" be worse. Who knows what sort of impact a fit and firing Bailey and Beundia will have when supplying Watkins and Ings. However, I'm absolutely convinced the 14 we can put on the pitch on any given match day will definitely be better than any 14 we could have put out last season.
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I hope to proved wrong but it will be one achievement for us to finish top half. Losing Grealish has created this situation
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Would a 3-5-2 get us over some of our issues in midfield?
Martinez
Tuanzebe Konsa Mings
Cash Targett
McGinn Luiz Buendia
Ings/Bailey Watkins
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Would a 3-5-2 get us over some of our issues in midfield?
Martinez
Tuanzebe Konsa Mings
Cash Targett
McGinn Luiz Buendia
Ings/Bailey Watkins
Smith has stated that he does not like 3 at the back.
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If we have strengthened but we are worse without Grealish that falls squarely on the shoulders of the manager. He will not only have to prove that he can win consistently without him but that he can create a winning side challenging for a European spot with what he has. If not he’ll be looking for work. History isn’t on his side based on what we’ve seen for a Jack-less Villa but it’s also too early to make a proper assessment this season given all of the injuries.
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You can’t replace the quality of Grealish by signing other players (no matter what guff they try to sell us about signing 3 players with his attributes), so the aim has to be to improve the team and squad that was available when he was out injured. There’s no question that we have done that, but only time will tell if we become a better team without the over reliance on him…as it stands, I don’t think we’ve done enough in this transfer market when we had the perfect opportunity to do so.
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I don't doubt he wants to be more versatile, he did say that as well over the summer. Everyone, however, has a base style, and a first choice set-up to suit it. You can't drill two different basic identities of play at once. And my feeling is that the plan is to play pretty direct, pretty compact, press fiercely from the front and to worry much more about turnovers than possession. That to me says a 4-2-2-2 is the most likely basic shape.
Works fine as a 433 or 4321 with 3 box-to-box players in the middle as well though. I do think the plan is to focus on transitional play rather than possession though, that's about the only decent explanation for him thinking the current midfield options are enough.
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Would a 3-5-2 get us over some of our issues in midfield?
Martinez
Tuanzebe Konsa Mings
Cash Targett
McGinn Luiz Buendia
Ings/Bailey Watkins
Smith has stated that he does not like 3 at the back.
Even ignoring that I don't see how that helps address the issue, if anything it makes it worse because now not only do we not have the power to dominate in midfield we also lose width up front.
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Someone's trying to buy Boubacar Kamara from the Prem. DM and worth signing for the name alone.
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We’re just a bit dull at the moment
That slow laborious buildup play it’s dull
Bailey, Triaore, When back will hopefully add a bit of spice
They are unpredictable exciting players and we need a bit of that
As for the transfer window verdict I think we’ve done ok
I think overall we are stronger as a team
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We’re just a bit dull at the moment
That slow laborious buildup play it’s dull
Bailey, Triaore, When back will hopefully add a bit of spice
They are unpredictable exciting players and we need a bit of that
As for the transfer window verdict I think we’ve done ok
I think overall we are stronger as a team
the almost walking pace build up drives me nuts
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We’re just a bit dull at the moment
That slow laborious buildup play it’s dull
Bailey, Triaore, When back will hopefully add a bit of spice
They are unpredictable exciting players and we need a bit of that
As for the transfer window verdict I think we’ve done ok
I think overall we are stronger as a team
the almost walking pace build up drives me nuts
Hopefully Bailey wll help remedy that.
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We’re just a bit dull at the moment
That slow laborious buildup play it’s dull
Bailey, Triaore, When back will hopefully add a bit of spice
They are unpredictable exciting players and we need a bit of that
As for the transfer window verdict I think we’ve done ok
I think overall we are stronger as a team
the almost walking pace build up drives me nuts
Hopefully Bailey wll help remedy that.
My genuine fear is that we are setting up to be a counter attacking team which if done right will be great, but if not we will keep getting sucked deeper and deeper. With Jack because he could hang on to the ball so long it brought everyone up the pitch and helped press our opponents. We have nobody who can do that today.
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I don't doubt he wants to be more versatile, he did say that as well over the summer. Everyone, however, has a base style, and a first choice set-up to suit it. You can't drill two different basic identities of play at once. And my feeling is that the plan is to play pretty direct, pretty compact, press fiercely from the front and to worry much more about turnovers than possession. That to me says a 4-2-2-2 is the most likely basic shape.
Works fine as a 433 or 4321 with 3 box-to-box players in the middle as well though. I do think the plan is to focus on transitional play rather than possession though, that's about the only decent explanation for him thinking the current midfield options are enough.
We shall see! Seems to me Dean sees Buendía as very much an advanced option though, which with Bailey wide and (my assumption this) Ollie through the middle points one way.
Definitely gonna be all about that transition though innit. Somewhat risky that, though, as it makes us much more reliant on certain individuals being fit and doing magic, rather than a more structured approach in midfield. Ironically we could end up with as set a first 11 as before, as the squad players wouldn't be suited to the new style or shape.
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Surely we can’t be happy with our midfield options but I’m not going to say that out loud until tomorrow.
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It will be absolutely outrageous if we don't get a CDM in.
Definitely. But just how far should we go in showing our displeasure?
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Someone's trying to buy Boubacar Kamara from the Prem. DM and worth signing for the name alone.
Newcastle.
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Someone's trying to buy Boubacar Kamara from the Prem. DM and worth signing for the name alone.
Newcastle.
And Wolves. Not us though.
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I don't doubt he wants to be more versatile, he did say that as well over the summer. Everyone, however, has a base style, and a first choice set-up to suit it. You can't drill two different basic identities of play at once. And my feeling is that the plan is to play pretty direct, pretty compact, press fiercely from the front and to worry much more about turnovers than possession. That to me says a 4-2-2-2 is the most likely basic shape.
Works fine as a 433 or 4321 with 3 box-to-box players in the middle as well though. I do think the plan is to focus on transitional play rather than possession though, that's about the only decent explanation for him thinking the current midfield options are enough.
We shall see! Seems to me Dean sees Buendía as very much an advanced option though, which with Bailey wide and (my assumption this) Ollie through the middle points one way.
Definitely gonna be all about that transition though innit. Somewhat risky that, though, as it makes us much more reliant on certain individuals being fit and doing magic, rather than a more structured approach in midfield. Ironically we could end up with as set a first 11 as before, as the squad players wouldn't be suited to the new style or shape.
We have to transition out of the Jack Grealish era so it’s going to look a little disjointed and shit at times. Question will be how fast can Dean Smith do it?
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I don't doubt he wants to be more versatile, he did say that as well over the summer. Everyone, however, has a base style, and a first choice set-up to suit it. You can't drill two different basic identities of play at once. And my feeling is that the plan is to play pretty direct, pretty compact, press fiercely from the front and to worry much more about turnovers than possession. That to me says a 4-2-2-2 is the most likely basic shape.
Works fine as a 433 or 4321 with 3 box-to-box players in the middle as well though. I do think the plan is to focus on transitional play rather than possession though, that's about the only decent explanation for him thinking the current midfield options are enough.
We shall see! Seems to me Dean sees Buendía as very much an advanced option though, which with Bailey wide and (my assumption this) Ollie through the middle points one way.
Definitely gonna be all about that transition though innit. Somewhat risky that, though, as it makes us much more reliant on certain individuals being fit and doing magic, rather than a more structured approach in midfield. Ironically we could end up with as set a first 11 as before, as the squad players wouldn't be suited to the new style or shape.
The whole '3 8s' just makes sense because the only centre mid we have that wouldn't suit that is Nakamba. It also particularly suits players who like to turn and carry the ball out which Sanson, Chuk and JJ all fit really well for. if it is one of the shapes I think you'd expect Watkins, Bailey, Buendia, AEG, Trez and JPB to all fit (to vary success) as the more hard working, pressing players with only really Ings and Traore less suited to putting that sort of shift in. Davis is pretty hard working as well so I'm pretty sure that sort of all action approach is where he wants to go and it's looked a bit disjointed so far because we're not quite fit enough to do it yet because of a slightly messed up summer.
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To assess how Villa have done in this transfer window, I look at the teams we need to climb above to progress, so West Ham, Leeds and Everton and in all cases it feels to me that they have strengthened there first team from last season. With the best will in the world on the evidence so far we haven't. I know we are still to see Bailey properly and Watkins has been injured but we still lacking in backbone.
I would also agree with the comments about the club rewriting objectives and benchmarks to more of a "survival" mentality. A worrying month ahead
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Disjointed is understandable, except in one respect. The midfielders who started against Newcastle have been playing together, and under Dean, for years plural now, as had the central defenders, yet we lacked horribly any sense of movement in trying to beat the pretty anemic Bruceball press we know so well. We struggled badly against that, constantly tapping it out for a fullback to knock long into the wide channels. We didn't even try and fail at that style of play - we looked like we had no style play. Disruption and new signings are one thing, but if Dean wants us to play out through the middle then he's failed as a head coach.
Which is why, partly in hope and partly out of trust, I'm assuming he has another style in mind, one very much dependent on the forwards being fit, knowing each other and drilled in their movements. That's pretty much what I'm, not quite clinging onto, but definitely gripping a little more anxiously than usual.
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It will be absolutely outrageous if we don't get a CDM in.
Definitely. But just how far should we go in showing our displeasure?
I’m considering turning up at Villa Park at 11.01 so that I can fling my excrement at the Trinity Road gates.
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It will be absolutely outrageous if we don't get a CDM in.
Definitely. But just how far should we go in showing our displeasure?
I’m considering turning up at Villa Park at 11.01 so that I can fling my excrement at the Trinity Road gates.
oh , really? i won’t chain myself to them
then
😳
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:-) I’m also considering watching the U23 game in a bit and I’m going to do my best to convince myself that Sanson is absolutely brilliant and I don’t know what we’re all worrying for. It might carry me through to the next PL game anyway.
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If we could guarantee all the players being fit and available for selection, after the international break, I’d say we still have a pretty strong squad. My fears just now seem to centre around Sansom and Bailey. Two signings that look like they will spend most of the season on the treatment table by the looks of things. To be fair, I don’t even remember what Sansom looks like.
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Disjointed is understandable, except in one respect. The midfielders who started against Newcastle have been playing together, and under Dean, for years plural now, as had the central defenders, yet we lacked horribly any sense of movement in trying to beat the pretty anemic Bruceball press we know so well. We struggled badly against that, constantly tapping it out for a fullback to knock long into the wide channels. We didn't even try and fail at that style of play - we looked like we had no style play. Disruption and new signings are one thing, but if Dean wants us to play out through the middle then he's failed as a head coach.
Which is why, partly in hope and partly out of trust, I'm assuming he has another style in mind, one very much dependent on the forwards being fit, knowing each other and drilled in their movements. That's pretty much what I'm, not quite clinging onto, but definitely gripping a little more anxiously than usual.
I think the mess in the forwards is absolutely the problem. We've had Buendia looking half fit on the opening day and Watkins, Bailey and Traore getting 20-30 minutes each so far because of injuries. Chelsea might be too soon as we will see further issues with Buendia at least missing but hopefully we'll be in a better place for Everton.
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I think we took a massive step back in losing one of the best players in the world and have taken a minuscule step forward in terms of now having some quite good players to add depth to a quite good squad. We should now be quite good but not quite as good as last season. Possibly quite close to relegation but not quite close to Europe. Maybe quite close to losing Martinez as I can’t see him staying at a lower half club.
So we’ve nearly but not quite shored up our position as quite a good club.
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I do think the midfield is quite shit though.
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I think we took a massive step back in losing one of the best players in the world and have taken a minuscule step forward in terms of now having some quite good players to add depth to a quite good squad. We should now be quite good but not quite as good as last season. Possibly quite close to relegation but not quite close to Europe. Maybe quite close to losing Martinez as I can’t see him staying at a lower half club.
So we’ve nearly but not quite shored up our position as quite a good club.
but how on earth do you know that when we've not even been able select a number of them this season?
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I do think the midfield is quite shit though.
Yes, we have quite good forward options, quite a good defence, and quite a shit midfield. Fortunately, we have a quite outstanding goalkeeper.
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I wouldn't be surprised in the least if Smith ends up sacked this season. Midfield and lack of control of games will be our downfall.
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I think we took a massive step back in losing one of the best players in the world and have taken a minuscule step forward in terms of now having some quite good players to add depth to a quite good squad. We should now be quite good but not quite as good as last season. Possibly quite close to relegation but not quite close to Europe. Maybe quite close to losing Martinez as I can’t see him staying at a lower half club.
So we’ve nearly but not quite shored up our position as quite a good club.
but how on earth do you know that when we've not even been able select a number of them this season?
I don’t, none of us do. It’s just an opinion, that why it starts ‘I think’. I thought we were being asked for opinions.
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Estimated net spend (£m)
Looking at net spend over one window is somewhat misleading.
For example, PSG could have taken €220m from Real Madrid today - which would have made their net spend figure pretty healthy - but chose not to.
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I think we took a massive step back in losing one of the best players in the world and have taken a minuscule step forward in terms of now having some quite good players to add depth to a quite good squad. We should now be quite good but not quite as good as last season. Possibly quite close to relegation but not quite close to Europe. Maybe quite close to losing Martinez as I can’t see him staying at a lower half club.
So we’ve nearly but not quite shored up our position as quite a good club.
but how on earth do you know that when we've not even been able select a number of them this season?
I don’t, none of us do. It’s just an opinion, that why it starts ‘I think’. I thought we were being asked for opinions.
Quite, Mike ;D
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Talk about net spend is very Villa retro.
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We've replaced Ratboy, nothing more. So I'm expecting the same as last season.
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I think, considering the fact we had no control over Grealish going, the recruitment has been excellent.
I agree I have concerns over the midfield, however it only looks so weak because the acquisitions were so strong elsewhere. Also, Sanson was signed in Jan and was a Summer target brought forward. Had we signed him in June there wouldn't be this hysteria over a centre-midfielder.
We have enough depth now that we can wait for the right players rather than chasing anyone and I like that.
The backline is very strong, starters and reserves.
McGinn and Luiz to start every game and then any four from Sanson, Ramsey, Bailey, Buendia, Traore, Ings and Watkins in a 4-4-1-1 or 4-3-3 looks excellent to me. 3 of those 7 on the bench as an option to change it each week, with Young, El Ghazi, Philogene-Bidace, Chukwumeka and Archer in reserve too.
An imposing centre-midfielder the quality of Ings/Bailey/Martinez's signings has to be next on the agenda though.
A 9/10 window now for me, it'll take time for the side to blend together but if we can finish midtable and consolodate last year's good progress, with so much money in the bank we'll be in a fantastic position to push for Europe/who knows next year.
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I think, considering the fact we had no control over Grealish going, the recruitment has been excellent.
I agree I have concerns over the midfield, however it only looks so weak because the acquisitions were so strong elsewhere. Also, Sanson was signed in Jan and was a Summer target brought forward. Had we signed him in June there wouldn't be this hysteria over a centre-midfielder.
We have enough depth now that we can wait for the right players rather than chasing anyone and I like that.
The backline is very strong, starters and reserves.
McGinn and Luiz to start every game and then any four from Sanson, Ramsey, Bailey, Buendia, Traore, Ings and Watkins in a 4-4-1-1 or 4-3-3 looks excellent to me. 3 of those 7 on the bench as an option to change it each week, with Young, El Ghazi, Philogene-Bidace, Chukwumeka and Archer in reserve too.
An imposing centre-midfielder the quality of Ings/Bailey/Martinez's signings has to be next on the agenda though.
A 9/10 window now for me, it'll take time for the side to blend together but if we can finish midtable and consolidate last year's good progress, with so much money in the bank we'll be in a fantastic position to push for Europe/who knows next year.
Some positivity! Yeh!!
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It's important that the youngsters that are good enough to make the grade can actually see a route to progress to the first team squad as Chuckwemaka and Philogene-Bidace have done.
Otherwise there is no point packing the youth squad with the best talent available.
I guess the idea of growing our own rather than paying through the nose is a good one.
The only problem is that I can't see an outstanding DCM prospect amongst the kids.
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Wonder if the lad we got from West Brom that I can't spell or pronounce is closer than we think.
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I don’t think it really matters who plays in midfield, it is our weak point and has been for years. Unless they pull something out of the hat in the final stages that isn’t going to change.
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The thing I can’t reconcile is these rumours that it’s Dean who doesn’t want to splash the cash on another midfielder, with him choosing to start Chuck and Young in there ahead of Nakamba vs Brentford.
Clearly he doesn’t rate our midfield options to highly, Nakamba at least. So why not add to the squad? That’s why I’m a little sceptical (based on precisely zero ITK!) that it’s Dean deciding we don’t need more.
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I don't think it would be unreasonable to take the last selection as a one-off injury crisis that won't happen again.
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Young played in midfield because Big Chuck started. I'd suggest Deano wagered it would be better to get an hour in Big Chuck's clock than it would Nkamba starting. It was a unsurprisingly frustrating performance, but long term Chuck playing minutes (at 17!) it's not a cataclysm and likely benefits the club.
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But claiming he is stockpiling midfielders then playing a combination that could have been father and son, neither who have played there in premier league match is odd to say the least.
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Sanson, Ramsey and McGinn were not available. Our first choice defensive midfielder (who was so good pre-Covid in January this site had him sold to Man City) was and started. The other senior option was our back up defensive midfielder and it would have made no sense to start both.
Traore and Bailey were unavailable so we couldn't move Buendia inside instead either. Options were limited. Deano gambled with Big Chuck and I think long term, despite only 1 point, that will have done him the world of good.
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We still haven't got the required quality in depth. DS is too stubborn on adding extra quality.
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Sanson, Ramsey and McGinn were not available. Our first choice defensive midfielder (who was so good pre-Covid in January this site had him sold to Man City) was and started. The other senior option was our back up defensive midfielder and it would have made no sense to start both.
Traore and Bailey were unavailable so we couldn't move Buendia inside instead either. Options were limited. Deano gambled with Big Chuck and I think long term, despite only 1 point, that will have done him the world of good.
Agreed, I was away until yesterday so only saw bits and pieces of the game until last night but having watched more now Chuk looked a lot more like the player I wanted us to sign than I expected him to. He's not completely ready but if sticking with what we have means he gets regular cameos then I agree it might work in the long term.
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Still a couple of hours to go, fingers crossed.
On paper, Ings, Bailey and Buendia seem to be good signings and add something to the squad. Tuanzebe and Young offer a bit of cover although I wouldn't expect them to play too often. If we want to play all our best players in the same team, it looks like going 442 and the centre midfield is too weak for that. We've had a really disrupted start to the season and things will settle down. Losing two coaches and gaining one was a bit odd. We will score goals with Ings and Watkins up front, with Bailey and Buendia either side of midfield. Would be a waste of we stay with 433 and one of Ings/watkins sits on the bench. Better bench, that is for sure. Centre midfield with an inconsistent McGinn and Luiz is a worry. Seems we tried hard for JWP and ESR but only according to papers. Not sure who, if anyone was the plan b or c.
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Sanson, Ramsey and McGinn were not available. Our first choice defensive midfielder (who was so good pre-Covid in January this site had him sold to Man City) was and started. The other senior option was our back up defensive midfielder and it would have made no sense to start both.
Traore and Bailey were unavailable so we couldn't move Buendia inside instead either. Options were limited. Deano gambled with Big Chuck and I think long term, despite only 1 point, that will have done him the world of good.
Agreed, I was away until yesterday so only saw bits and pieces of the game until last night but having watched more now Chuk looked a lot more like the player I wanted us to sign than I expected him to. He's not completely ready but if sticking with what we have means he gets regular cameos then I agree it might work in the long term.
Definitely agree, I’m very happy we are giving these youngsters a run out. We’ll probably have to against Chelsea. It’s early days in the season, plenty of games to play and the more they play the better they will be for it. Ramsey the other day was superb, his experience from last season has really helped him on.
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Bearing in mind that Trezegueut is a long term injury. And the "kids" don't count. We are 5 short of a squad of 25. Am I missing something?
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Move Konsa to DCM. Just sayin’.
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I think it's fair to hope for a Dougaissance. The problem with that is he's always looked better in a three rather than a two, so we'll see how he adapts if there is a new system. Also, the two with him does not seem to suit SJM at all really.
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Move Konsa to DCM. Just sayin’.
I always thought that was a great shout and could have been possible if we hadn't have just let our back up right back walk put the door. The centre back who would be covering Konsa would have to cover right back as well. Still possible I suppose.
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The signings have been good.
Just lacking the crucial DCM.
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Dougie
McGinn
Sanson
Bailey
Ings
Watkins
Targett and Cash pushing high. Diet Liverpool.
Or
Dougie
McGinn/Sanson
Bailey
Beudia
Ings
Watkins
Lots of 4 man box pressing and running and running and running.
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Our academy knock out a league team and we’ve got people on here suggesting we should go after players like Choudhury who can’t get a game at Leicester and whom Newcastle want.
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Good posts Ads and the ads. I just wanted to say that in the same sentence.
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I think, considering the fact we had no control over Grealish going, the recruitment has been excellent.
I agree I have concerns over the midfield, however it only looks so weak because the acquisitions were so strong elsewhere. Also, Sanson was signed in Jan and was a Summer target brought forward. Had we signed him in June there wouldn't be this hysteria over a centre-midfielder.
We have enough depth now that we can wait for the right players rather than chasing anyone and I like that.
The backline is very strong, starters and reserves.
McGinn and Luiz to start every game and then any four from Sanson, Ramsey, Bailey, Buendia, Traore, Ings and Watkins in a 4-4-1-1 or 4-3-3 looks excellent to me. 3 of those 7 on the bench as an option to change it each week, with Young, El Ghazi, Philogene-Bidace, Chukwumeka and Archer in reserve too.
An imposing centre-midfielder the quality of Ings/Bailey/Martinez's signings has to be next on the agenda though.
A 9/10 window now for me, it'll take time for the side to blend together but if we can finish midtable and consolodate last year's good progress, with so much money in the bank we'll be in a fantastic position to push for Europe/who knows next year.
A fair summary.Admittedly I was hoping for a strong centre midfielder but the concern over this area might be overdone.Last year Barkley featured in about half the games,running back and tackling was non existent from him.
The midfield and defence weren't much helped by Traore and El Ghazi in that respect.Bear in mind that Martinez racked up a record number of clean sheets so midfield couldn't have been a tackle free zone.
Now we have a collection of players ,Luiz,McGinn,Sanson,Ramsey and Buendia,who will do that running and harrying but also can be good going forward.There is also Nakamba,a DCM with limitations but results picked up when he was selected.
The other positive is that we are carrying very few passengers,apart from a lengthy injury to Trez.The previous dash for glory under Lerner and MON was a very short term approach,buy and get rid at a loss and buy again.This looks sustainable.
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I think, considering the fact we had no control over Grealish going, the recruitment has been excellent.
I agree I have concerns over the midfield, however it only looks so weak because the acquisitions were so strong elsewhere. Also, Sanson was signed in Jan and was a Summer target brought forward. Had we signed him in June there wouldn't be this hysteria over a centre-midfielder.
We have enough depth now that we can wait for the right players rather than chasing anyone and I like that.
The backline is very strong, starters and reserves.
McGinn and Luiz to start every game and then any four from Sanson, Ramsey, Bailey, Buendia, Traore, Ings and Watkins in a 4-4-1-1 or 4-3-3 looks excellent to me. 3 of those 7 on the bench as an option to change it each week, with Young, El Ghazi, Philogene-Bidace, Chukwumeka and Archer in reserve too.
An imposing centre-midfielder the quality of Ings/Bailey/Martinez's signings has to be next on the agenda though.
A 9/10 window now for me, it'll take time for the side to blend together but if we can finish midtable and consolodate last year's good progress, with so much money in the bank we'll be in a fantastic position to push for Europe/who knows next year.
A fair summary.Admittedly I was hoping for a strong centre midfielder but the concern over this area might be overdone.Last year Barkley featured in about half the games,running back and tackling was non existent from him.
The midfield and defence weren't much helped by Traore and El Ghazi in that respect.Bear in mind that Martinez racked up a record number of clean sheets so midfield couldn't have been a tackle free zone.
Now we have a collection of players ,Luiz,McGinn,Sanson,Ramsey and Buendia,who will do that running and harrying but also can be good going forward.There is also Nakamba,a DCM with limitations but results picked up when he was selected.
The other positive is that we are carrying very few passengers,apart from a lengthy injury to Trez.The previous dash for glory under Lerner and MON was a very short term approach,buy and get rid at a loss and buy again.This looks sustainable.
Martinez also made the second most saves in the league I think, which masked a bit of the midfield being an issue.
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Can people stop repeating the false assumption that Bailey is a right winger, it's just not true, he plays on both wings but has started on the left more than the right.
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/leon-bailey/profil/spieler/387626 (https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/leon-bailey/profil/spieler/387626)
(https://i.ibb.co/1Jj1TcT/Screenshot-2021-08-31-145355.png) (https://ibb.co/1Jj1TcT)
image hosting (https://imgbb.com/)
He has been signed to play mainly from the left but with the option to swap sides.
If you look at the detail, he started the majority of the games from right wing last season.
Yes, for the first time in his career. I don't know why you're still arguing this (other than as an excuse to moan about signings) it's in black and white that he plays on both sides and always has.
His stats were a lot better last season from the right than they were in his seasons on the left weren’t they?
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Breaking news. Mungo Bridge has gone on loan. In the summertime.
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I’ve heard of lot of pundits commenting that we’ve had one of the best transfer windows when asked which clubs have done the best business this summer. May be, just may be, our team won’t be quite as bad as some of us think on here…but we won’t get to see that for a good few weeks yet, and we also shouldn’t be judging the team or the club on the first 3 performances/results given we all know the circumstances.
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Our academy knock out a league team and we’ve got people on here suggesting we should go after players like Choudhury who can’t get a game at Leicester and whom Newcastle want.
Agreed. It would have been great to get in a top DM but at the same time I’m excited about what this group of young talented players can do. I’m not suggesting for a second we are the second coming of the 95/96 Man U team but we have players at the club that are going to be very good indeed.
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Can people stop repeating the false assumption that Bailey is a right winger, it's just not true, he plays on both wings but has started on the left more than the right.
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/leon-bailey/profil/spieler/387626 (https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/leon-bailey/profil/spieler/387626)
(https://i.ibb.co/1Jj1TcT/Screenshot-2021-08-31-145355.png) (https://ibb.co/1Jj1TcT)
image hosting (https://imgbb.com/)
He has been signed to play mainly from the left but with the option to swap sides.
If you look at the detail, he started the majority of the games from right wing last season.
Yes, for the first time in his career. I don't know why you're still arguing this (other than as an excuse to moan about signings) it's in black and white that he plays on both sides and always has.
His stats were a lot better last season from the right than they were in his seasons on the left weren’t they?
His stats are on the pic, roughly 1 in 4 from either side and slightly lower on assists so a 'goal involvement' of roughly 1 in 2. If he replicates that for us then he's a pretty effective replacement for Joe.
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I think, considering the fact we had no control over Grealish going, the recruitment has been excellent.
I agree I have concerns over the midfield, however it only looks so weak because the acquisitions were so strong elsewhere. Also, Sanson was signed in Jan and was a Summer target brought forward. Had we signed him in June there wouldn't be this hysteria over a centre-midfielder.
We have enough depth now that we can wait for the right players rather than chasing anyone and I like that.
The backline is very strong, starters and reserves.
McGinn and Luiz to start every game and then any four from Sanson, Ramsey, Bailey, Buendia, Traore, Ings and Watkins in a 4-4-1-1 or 4-3-3 looks excellent to me. 3 of those 7 on the bench as an option to change it each week, with Young, El Ghazi, Philogene-Bidace, Chukwumeka and Archer in reserve too.
An imposing centre-midfielder the quality of Ings/Bailey/Martinez's signings has to be next on the agenda though.
A 9/10 window now for me, it'll take time for the side to blend together but if we can finish midtable and consolodate last year's good progress, with so much money in the bank we'll be in a fantastic position to push for Europe/who knows next year.
Great post
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Could be worse. Molineux Mix is in complete meltdown after three deadline deals collapsed. They refused to pay £12m for Kieffer Moore and £12m for that Kamara.
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One of the first players we were strongly linked with was Phillips from Man bun United so its evident that Smith and Co want a strong CDM. I'm happy that we wait for the right player(s) than just buy / loan for the sake of it.
I think a very disruptive pre season ( not our fault)
Another poxy covid outbreak
The media circus behind "becoming a bigger Cockend by the day" Jack Greedlish
International pressure to release players that have only just come back from the other side of the world.
Pretty crappy injury list
Once we have all our players fit and available then we can judge properly
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I’ve heard of lot of pundits commenting that we’ve had one of the best transfer windows when asked which clubs have done the best business this summer. May be, just may be, our team won’t be quite as bad as some of us think on here…but we won’t get to see that for a good few weeks yet, and we also shouldn’t be judging the team or the club on the first 3 performances/results given we all know the circumstances.
We all watch Villa a lot more than the average Talk Sport pundit though. They’ve probably no idea of the underlying weaknesses we have.
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Once we have all our players fit and available then we can judge properly
Yup. I'm expecting the reverse of last season, we'll be shit then brilliant after Christmas.
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I've added a poll to rate the window now it is almost over
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Anybody else think Tuanzebe DCM is an option?
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Some very exciting signings:-
Buendia
Bailey = when he eventually plays again
Ings
And Ashley Young is good cover at fullback, not Wing though.
Not thrilled about Tuanzebe, who was poor defensively in the Championship and is always injured.
Overall, losing our best player means that I'm left feeling deflated.
It also feels like we still have large gaps in our squad. We had the money to vastly improve, but haven't done that and opportunity to close the gap on teams above has gone now.
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Anybody else think Tuanzebe DCM is an option?
I do now.
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I’ve heard of lot of pundits commenting that we’ve had one of the best transfer windows when asked which clubs have done the best business this summer. May be, just may be, our team won’t be quite as bad as some of us think on here…but we won’t get to see that for a good few weeks yet, and we also shouldn’t be judging the team or the club on the first 3 performances/results given we all know the circumstances.
We all watch Villa a lot more than the average Talk Sport pundit though. They’ve probably no idea of the underlying weaknesses we have.
I think there is def lazy punditary once we get out the top 4 - 6. I remember one of them saying how well Watkins had done to keep Wesley out the team
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A great vote of confidence for our kids if we had money to spend and didn’t. I’ve no idea if they will be good enough but it will be interesting finding out.
I think Ramsey will be given an opportunity to nail down a place.
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Anybody else think Tuanzebe DCM is an option?
He’s going to be fucking busy. He’s DCM cover, centre-back cover, and right back cover.
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Despite a £95m spend I've found the transfer window generally underwhelming for where we want to be.
As a club we could have chosen to aim for top 6 with the safety net of a 10th/11th placed finish if things didn't work out. Instead we've aimed for a mid-table finish hoping that we don't drop too far. I can see us finishing anywhere from 11th-17th position. The lowering of expectations is a far cry from the project/vision of the owners.
Imo Smith will have his work cut out to see the season out at Villa.
Hopefully we don't pay for this next close season by losing any one/or all of Watkins, Martinez or Konsa if we fall short.
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Good window. Get players fit and move on. Keep improving and adding quality.
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Despite a £95m spend I've found the transfer window generally underwhelming for where we want to be.
As a club we could have chosen to aim for top 6 with the safety net of a 10th/11th placed finish if things didn't work out. Instead we've aimed for a mid-table finish hoping that we don't drop too far. I can see us finishing anywhere from 11th-17th position. The lowering of expectations is a far cry from the project/vision of the owners.
Imo Smith will have his work cut out to see the season out at Villa.
Hopefully we don't pay for this next close season by losing any one/or all of Watkins, Martinez or Konsa if we fall short.
Feels like a bit of a gamble doesn't it.
Hopefully they know what there doing - UTV
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Am I right in thinking the window has just SLAMMED shut ?
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Am I right in thinking the window has just SLAMMED shut ?
Still open a bit, just in case Arsenal want to sign someone in the middle of the night.
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I’ve heard of lot of pundits commenting that we’ve had one of the best transfer windows when asked which clubs have done the best business this summer. May be, just may be, our team won’t be quite as bad as some of us think on here…but we won’t get to see that for a good few weeks yet, and we also shouldn’t be judging the team or the club on the first 3 performances/results given we all know the circumstances.
We all watch Villa a lot more than the average Talk Sport pundit though. They’ve probably no idea of the underlying weaknesses we have.
I think there is def lazy punditary once we get out the top 4 - 6. I remember one of them saying how well Watkins had done to keep Wesley out the team
our
Your telling me...Jamie Ohara has just said that Barkley was good for Villa last year!!
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I’ve heard of lot of pundits commenting that we’ve had one of the best transfer windows when asked which clubs have done the best business this summer. May be, just may be, our team won’t be quite as bad as some of us think on here…but we won’t get to see that for a good few weeks yet, and we also shouldn’t be judging the team or the club on the first 3 performances/results given we all know the circumstances.
We all watch Villa a lot more than the average Talk Sport pundit though. They’ve probably no idea of the underlying weaknesses we have.
I think there is def lazy punditary once we get out the top 4 - 6. I remember one of them saying how well Watkins had done to keep Wesley out the team
our
Your telling me...Jamie Ohara has just said that Barkley was good for Villa last year!!
They get paid for this shit
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I’ve heard of lot of pundits commenting that we’ve had one of the best transfer windows when asked which clubs have done the best business this summer. May be, just may be, our team won’t be quite as bad as some of us think on here…but we won’t get to see that for a good few weeks yet, and we also shouldn’t be judging the team or the club on the first 3 performances/results given we all know the circumstances.
We all watch Villa a lot more than the average Talk Sport pundit though. They’ve probably no idea of the underlying weaknesses we have.
I think there is def lazy punditary once we get out the top 4 - 6. I remember one of them saying how well Watkins had done to keep Wesley out the team
our
Your telling me...Jamie Ohara has just said that Barkley was good for Villa last year!!
thats why we kept him on then
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Despite a £95m spend I've found the transfer window generally underwhelming for where we want to be.
As a club we could have chosen to aim for top 6 with the safety net of a 10th/11th placed finish if things didn't work out. Instead we've aimed for a mid-table finish hoping that we don't drop too far. I can see us finishing anywhere from 11th-17th position. The lowering of expectations is a far cry from the project/vision of the owners.
Imo Smith will have his work cut out to see the season out at Villa.
Hopefully we don't pay for this next close season by losing any one/or all of Watkins, Martinez or Konsa if we fall short.
I agree with this. I think we are very light in midfield. I don't see how we can track JWP & ESR so heavily & end up with nothing.
I have a horrible feeling that we will be looking over our shoulder all year and just about stay up. I too think DS could have his work cut out to keep his job if we have a bad run after the international break.
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Some positives some negatives, the negative of course is midfield, how we are going to fare against the top sides I shudder to think, looking on the bright side we will see more of Cam Archer and two or three others this season, when fit we have one of the best attacking squads in the division. It's a very important couple of months for DS, still believe things are not quite right at the club and a shaky start will bring the manager under a lot of pressure.
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Anybody else think Tuanzebe DCM is an option?
No
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In future I want us actually taking top and star players from other Premier league clubs.
Say we signed JWP and ESR then I think we all be very pleased.
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In future I want us actually taking top and star players from other Premier league clubs.
Say we signed JWP and ESR then I think we all be very pleased.
Agreed.
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In future I want us actually taking top and star players from other Premier league clubs.
Say we signed JWP and ESR then I think we all be very pleased.
Agreed.
Danny Ings is a good example of that for whom I am well pleased!
More of this
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Despite a £95m spend I've found the transfer window generally underwhelming for where we want to be.
As a club we could have chosen to aim for top 6 with the safety net of a 10th/11th placed finish if things didn't work out. Instead we've aimed for a mid-table finish hoping that we don't drop too far. I can see us finishing anywhere from 11th-17th position. The lowering of expectations is a far cry from the project/vision of the owners.
Imo Smith will have his work cut out to see the season out at Villa.
Hopefully we don't pay for this next close season by losing any one/or all of Watkins, Martinez or Konsa if we fall short.
I agree with this. I think we are very light in midfield. I don't see how we can track JWP & ESR so heavily & end up with nothing.
I have a horrible feeling that we will be looking over our shoulder all year and just about stay up. I too think DS could have his work cut out to keep his job if we have a bad run after the international break.
Agree
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Just all feels a little flat at the moment. Had a certain person stayed, I think the new signings would be a real cause for optimism, but given that he is no longer here, it doesn't feel like we have done enough to improve the team as a whole in his absence.
Even if said person had stayed, I think getting in a quality defensive midfielder was still the number one priority and I feel the failure to do this could be costly.
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He and we played shite plenty of times over the last couple of years. Let's move on with a group of players that offer hope rather than the fear that they'll fuck off at the drop of a release clause.
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He and we played shite plenty of times over the last couple of years. Let's move on with a group of players that offer hope rather than the fear that they'll fuck off at the drop of a release clause.
The thread is a review of the summer transfer window and him leaving has been the single biggest event in that window for us. I just hope it hasn't put the notion out there amongst our own players and in the wider footballing sphere that we are a push over again and teams can simply pick off our best talent while we offer little resistance.
I think we are going to have to be patient over the next month or so until we can hopefully get everyone fit and firing.
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Someone who sits by me at VP said there's been big issues with certain players and staff regarding being inoculated. Caused far more trouble than expected, would explain Dean being a bit shifty and the strange coaching departures.
Think the summer hasn't gone how the owners expected and looks like they could be investing elsewhere.
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He and we played shite plenty of times over the last couple of years. Let's move on with a group of players that offer hope rather than the fear that they'll fuck off at the drop of a release clause.
The thread is a review of the summer transfer window and him leaving has been the single biggest event in that window for us. I just hope it hasn't put the notion out there amongst our own players and in the wider footballing sphere that we are a push over again and teams can simply pick off our best talent while we offer little resistance.
I think we are going to have to be patient over the next month or so until we can hopefully get everyone fit and firing.
We are definitely not a pushover anymore. As explained by Purslow they inserted a 100million pound clause in you know who's contract that they really didn't expect to be triggered.There's not a lot else you can do if club's have that much wealth. PSG turned down 189 million for Mbappe even though they know he will join Real Madrid on a free transfer at the end of the season. That's just obscene all round.
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Someone who sits by me at VP said there's been big issues with certain players and staff regarding being inoculated. Caused far more trouble than expected, would explain Dean being a bit shifty and the strange coaching departures.
Think the summer hasn't gone how the owners expected and looks like they could be investing elsewhere.
Someone who sits by you? What a load of bollocks.
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Someone who sits by me at VP said there's been big issues with certain players and staff regarding being inoculated. Caused far more trouble than expected, would explain Dean being a bit shifty and the strange coaching departures.
Think the summer hasn't gone how the owners expected and looks like they could be investing elsewhere.
Good grief you really are full of shit.
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Someone who sits by me at VP said there's been big issues with certain players and staff regarding being inoculated. Caused far more trouble than expected, would explain Dean being a bit shifty and the strange coaching departures.
Think the summer hasn't gone how the owners expected and looks like they could be investing elsewhere.
Why are you pretending to be a season ticket holder when you say you go to 3-4 matches by your own words? Is that to make the rank bollocks you've come out with sound more plausible?
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I dont think we are getting europe with this squad to be honest. I still think we need cover at rb and obviously thw arra we all have reservations about cm.
I mean when you look at our next two away games and their midfield it shows how far we are away from them in the middle of the park. Not signing a ball winning midfielder who can take it forward i think will be a critical mistake.
Barring that i am hapoy with the signings made.
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Someone who sits by me at VP said there's been big issues with certain players and staff regarding being inoculated. Caused far more trouble than expected, would explain Dean being a bit shifty and the strange coaching departures.
Think the summer hasn't gone how the owners expected and looks like they could be investing elsewhere.
Why are you pretending to be a season ticket holder when you say you go to 3-4 matches by your own words? Is that to make the rank bollocks you've come out with sound more plausible?
When have I ever said I attend 3-4 matches? I'm a Season Ticket Holder
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Move Konsa to DCM. Just sayin’.
Inverted McGrath move. If it were half as much of a masterstroke ...
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The Sky 6 are all going to look a bit frightening on paper.
Good job it's not played on paper. They can be matched on effort and the hope that Deano is about to become some sort of master tactician.
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Well that’s all done and dusted, we now in many ways plunge in to the unknown no DM unveiled so I assume we will continue to base most of our attacks down the left ,with pace to burn in Bailey. DS and CS are very experienced coaches ,and my hope is that they have new system that now suits this present squad. I hope we don’t go a prolonged winless because this can sabotage team.
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The Sky 6 are all going to look a bit frightening on paper.
Good job it's not played on paper. They can be matched on effort and the hope that Deano is about to become some sort of master tactician.
Citeh Chelsea and United granted. Not sure on others. Liverpool have great 1st team but not sure of their depth. Spurs lot will depend on the new defender from Barca. Arsenal look like a collection of players, just more of them.
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Well that’s all done and dusted, we now in many ways plunge in to the unknown no DM unveiled so I assume we will continue to base most of our attacks down the left ,with pace to burn in Bailey. DS and CS are very experienced coaches ,and my hope is that they have new system that now suits this present squad. I hope we don’t go a prolonged winless because this can sabotage team.
And once Smith gets us into a winless nosedive, he usually struggles to get us out of it.
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Well that’s all done and dusted, we now in many ways plunge in to the unknown no DM unveiled so I assume we will continue to base most of our attacks down the left ,with pace to burn in Bailey. DS and CS are very experienced coaches ,and my hope is that they have new system that now suits this present squad. I hope we don’t go a prolonged winless because this can sabotage team.
And once Smith gets us into a winless nosedive, he usually struggles to get us out of it.
I dont think he will get away with that this year should it happen. I think that could happen in the next run of games as we have some toughies. I think one win out of the first three has been a poor return from him thus far
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Liverpool look deceptively normal on paper but are frightening on the pitch. Alexander-Arnold in particular has started the season in pretty ominous form.
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I think we've stood still basically. Only real improvement is the attack. The midfield, on the one hand, Joe was unreplaceable however much money we threw at replacing him and i'm still not entirely sure who the replacement is. On the other hand, two midfielders coming in naturally means one of our midfield last season has been replaced on paper at least, by a better player. Defence is as you were, but probably weaker in depth.
I don't think we've overhauled any of the clubs who finished above us last term. West ham have spent well, Spurs too. Arsenal we'll see what happens after the break. Everton have spent very little on paper but have brought new faces in - maybe the weakest recruitment out of the clubs above us possibly. The upside is the clubs below us last season haven't made any large leaps in improvement either. I predicted we'd finish around where we did last season, give or take a couple of places higher/lower and I stand by that. Whether Smith will be manager to see it is the big question for me now.
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I think we've stood still basically. Only real improvement is the attack. The midfield, on the one hand, Joe was unreplaceable however much money we threw at replacing him and i'm still not entirely sure who the replacement is. On the other hand, two midfielders coming in naturally means one of our midfield last season has been replaced on paper at least, by a better player. Defence is as you were, but probably weaker in depth.
I don't think we've overhauled any of the clubs who finished above us last term. West ham have spent well, Spurs too. Arsenal we'll see what happens after the break. Everton have spent very little on paper but have brought new faces in - maybe the weakest recruitment out of the clubs above us possibly. The upside is the clubs below us last season haven't made any large leaps in improvement either. I predicted we'd finish around where we did last season, give or take a couple of places higher/lower and I stand by that. Whether Smith will be manager to see it is the big question for me now.
Hard to disagree with this, pretty much how I feel too. At the time of Terry going I said to brother, tongue-in-cheek, you watch him be Caretaker Manager from Christmas at Villa. Hope I’m wrong with that as I’m grateful for what Dean has done for us up to now.
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Dean will live or die by this transfer window. To many of us (from the outside) we look weak in central midfield at the very least. But surely the management team must have identified this and have a plan to compensate - not that we've seen them try it in any games.
With our next run of games it might be a little bumpy and if that does happen doubts will creep in.
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I think we've stood still basically. Only real improvement is the attack. The midfield, on the one hand, Joe was unreplaceable however much money we threw at replacing him and i'm still not entirely sure who the replacement is. On the other hand, two midfielders coming in naturally means one of our midfield last season has been replaced on paper at least, by a better player. Defence is as you were, but probably weaker in depth.
I don't think we've overhauled any of the clubs who finished above us last term. West ham have spent well, Spurs too. Arsenal we'll see what happens after the break. Everton have spent very little on paper but have brought new faces in - maybe the weakest recruitment out of the clubs above us possibly. The upside is the clubs below us last season haven't made any large leaps in improvement either. I predicted we'd finish around where we did last season, give or take a couple of places higher/lower and I stand by that. Whether Smith will be manager to see it is the big question for me now.
Hard to disagree with this, pretty much how I feel too. At the time of Terry going I said to brother, tongue-in-cheek, you watch him be Caretaker Manager from Christmas at Villa. Hope I’m wrong with that as I’m grateful for what Dean has done for us up to now.
yeah I have thought that myself. You could see him coming back if things go pear-shaped. I don't want Smith gone either but looking at how the games have fallen and when, you could see him being a victim of circumstances with the injuries/Internationals compounding it.
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Several permutations at play for me.
Firstly Plan A was that Greedlish stayed, we got our business underway early and he went to the surprise of our owners and manager, we didn't really have a Plan B or did we. Least likely.
Plan B was that Greedlish was never staying, we got our business underway early but some of the targets we identified weren't available or were unwilling to come. Second least likely but the one I'd most like to believe.
Plan C was what has played out, Greedlish was always going, we got our business done early and that's all there ever was. Most likely and the one that potentially will be Smiths undoing.
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Someone who sits by me at VP said there's been big issues with certain players and staff regarding being inoculated. Caused far more trouble than expected, would explain Dean being a bit shifty and the strange coaching departures.
Think the summer hasn't gone how the owners expected and looks like they could be investing elsewhere.
Why are you pretending to be a season ticket holder when you say you go to 3-4 matches by your own words? Is that to make the rank bollocks you've come out with sound more plausible?
When have I ever said I attend 3-4 matches? I'm a Season Ticket Holder
You said:
Considering signing up for membership but will only be able to attend 3-4 matches as being relocated next month
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Opportunity missed.
God help us if Luiz can't stay fit and in form for the next 35 games.
If we decide to play with a 10 realistically our options are Buendia (who has played there once in 3 seasons), Ramsey who I don't think is creative enough for the role or Ings who just isn't a 10. Possibly Traore, but it's still square pegs in round holes.
Hard to undertstand finishing £10m in the black given our stated ambitions and the chance to close the gap.
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Someone who sits by me at VP said there's been big issues with certain players and staff regarding being inoculated. Caused far more trouble than expected, would explain Dean being a bit shifty and the strange coaching departures.
Think the summer hasn't gone how the owners expected and looks like they could be investing elsewhere.
Why are you pretending to be a season ticket holder when you say you go to 3-4 matches by your own words? Is that to make the rank bollocks you've come out with sound more plausible?
When have I ever said I attend 3-4 matches? I'm a Season Ticket Holder
You said:
Considering signing up for membership but will only be able to attend 3-4 matches as being relocated next month
I reckon that Ads has served up match point there son!
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Someone who sits by me at VP said there's been big issues with certain players and staff regarding being inoculated. Caused far more trouble than expected, would explain Dean being a bit shifty and the strange coaching departures.
Think the summer hasn't gone how the owners expected and looks like they could be investing elsewhere.
Why are you pretending to be a season ticket holder when you say you go to 3-4 matches by your own words? Is that to make the rank bollocks you've come out with sound more plausible?
When have I ever said I attend 3-4 matches? I'm a Season Ticket Holder
You said:
Considering signing up for membership but will only be able to attend 3-4 matches as being relocated next month
I reckon that Ads has served up match point there son!
Genius
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Yeah, that's a snooker right there Flin.
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Well that’s all done and dusted, we now in many ways plunge in to the unknown no DM unveiled so I assume we will continue to base most of our attacks down the left ,with pace to burn in Bailey. DS and CS are very experienced coaches ,and my hope is that they have new system that now suits this present squad. I hope we don’t go a prolonged winless because this can sabotage team.
And once Smith gets us into a winless nosedive, he usually struggles to get us out of it.
Until Grealish returns and sorts it out for him.
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Has the troll forgotten his fibs again?!
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The consensus on how transfers work at the Villa these days seems to be that we have a system where Lange, assisted by scouts and suggestions from Smith is given a remit for the type of players Smith requires. He then compiles a shortlist of 'getable' players that fit the profile and budget for us to select from. It also seems that Smith gets to pick, and gets a veto on any he does not fancy.
Pure conjecture this, but given the noises from the various ITK types (yeah I know) what I suspect may have happened is this. Smith identified that we required a RW (selected Buendia), a CB (selected Tuanzebe), and a CM (selected JWP) and an AMC (selected Smith Rowe). We got two of them.
Jack then left and priorities changed. I think we then needed another winger, and a centre forwards (In came Bailey and Ings) but still were looking at a couple of midfielders with JWP and Cantwell being Smiths top targets.
What I think then happened is that Smith has stuck to his guns and rejected the alternatives to his top picks, insisting on 'proven premier league' like JWP but our budget has been around tha £25m a player mark and we would not pay the £40m+ quoted by Southampton and Norwich. I suspect we had other alternatives in the list identified by Lange, but Smith has stuck his neck and said he would rather not have them if he can't get his first choices.
If that is the case then the onus is on him to make it work, or it will no doubt cost him his job. I simply do not believe our owners did not make around £50m available for a couple more players, as all the noise around JWP, ESR and Cantwell had us offering £25m each for them. I think we could have got good players from elsewhere for that kind of money, but not the 'proven Premier League' ones the manager wanted.
For me the best value signing this window has been the one most likely to from Lange - Bailey. Buendia is a good player but we paid a lot of money to get him. Ditto Ings. I would have liked us to have gone and recruited at least one more 'Lange' signing. It does feel like Smith is becoming a bit like MON in this respect.
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Smith was talking about “stockpiling” players, at the same time that international duty, injuries and Covid have got our squad down to the very bare bones. Sometimes I think he’s his own worst enemy. We had a decent season last year based on a very good start. With a much less impressive start this year and some difficult games on the horizon, we could be bumbling along at a rate of 1 to 1.25 points a game, which would be very disappointing.
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Can someone's situation not change?
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The consensus on how transfers work at the Villa these days seems to be that we have a system where Lange, assisted by scouts and suggestions from Smith is given a remit for the type of players Smith requires. He then compiles a shortlist of 'getable' players that fit the profile and budget for us to select from. It also seems that Smith gets to pick, and gets a veto on any he does not fancy.
Pure conjecture this, but given the noises from the various ITK types (yeah I know) what I suspect may have happened is this. Smith identified that we required a RW (selected Buendia), a CB (selected Tuanzebe), and a CM (selected JWP) and an AMC (selected Smith Rowe). We got two of them.
Jack then left and priorities changed. I think we then needed another winger, and a centre forwards (In came Bailey and Ings) but still were looking at a couple of midfielders with JWP and Cantwell being Smiths top targets.
What I think then happened is that Smith has stuck to his guns and rejected the alternatives to his top picks, insisting on 'proven premier league' like JWP but our budget has been around tha £25m a player mark and we would not pay the £40m+ quoted by Southampton and Norwich. I suspect we had other alternatives in the list identified by Lange, but Smith has stuck his neck and said he would rather not have them if he can't get his first choices.
If that is the case then the onus is on him to make it work, or it will no doubt cost him his job. I simply do not believe our owners did not make around £50m available for a couple more players, as all the noise around JWP, ESR and Cantwell had us offering £25m each for them. I think we could have got good players from elsewhere for that kind of money, but not the 'proven Premier League' ones the manager wanted.
For me the best value signing this window has been the one most likely to from Lange - Bailey. Buendia is a good player but we paid a lot of money to get him. Ditto Ings. I would have liked us to have gone and recruited at least one more 'Lange' signing. It does feel like Smith is becoming a bit like MON in this respect.
You could be right. My only argument against that is who in their right mind would think you'd get any of them for 25m? We obviously did so its a bit bizarre.
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This window was, for me, a missed opportunity when we had the potential to really kick on, rather than just treading water. I'll be happy to be proven wrong once everyone is fit, but that's how i see it right now.
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Maybe we thought that Covid had depressed the market to an extent where those figures were thoight realistic, I think we were more sensible than the market is.
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Clearly agenda to get English speaking or premier league experience players who can settle in
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He and we played shite plenty of times over the last couple of years. Let's move on with a group of players that offer hope rather than the fear that they'll fuck off at the drop of a release clause.
The thread is a review of the summer transfer window and him leaving has been the single biggest event in that window for us. I just hope it hasn't put the notion out there amongst our own players and in the wider footballing sphere that we are a push over again and teams can simply pick off our best talent while we offer little resistance.
I think we are going to have to be patient over the next month or so until we can hopefully get everyone fit and firing.
We are definitely not a pushover anymore. As explained by Purslow they inserted a 100million pound clause in you know who's contract that they really didn't expect to be triggered.There's not a lot else you can do if club's have that much wealth. PSG turned down 189 million for Mbappe even though they know he will join Real Madrid on a free transfer at the end of the season. That's just obscene all round.
Agree that there is very little that can be done when a clause like that exists, but even so, it probably now looks from the outside that our players can be picked off without too many complications. That may not be the case of course, but as we've seen previously with the likes of Barry, Milner, Young etc. it only takes one to leave for others to have their heads turned as well.
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You just know going forward that any new contract for the likes of Ollie the agent and/or player with say "I'll have a release clause in that".
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Agree that there is very little that can be done when a clause like that exists, but even so, it probably now looks from the outside that our players can be picked off without too many complications. That may not be the case of course, but as we've seen previously with the likes of Barry, Milner, Young etc. it only takes one to leave for others to have their heads turned as well.
I think a lot depends on the owner’s intentions, and also results. Once O’Neill had left, results went downhill and it was cleat that Lerner didn’t have the interest or funds any more to carry on as he had before. One by one the players you mentioned left for pastures new as they could see what was happening. I really hope history doesn’t repeat itself. The owners are miles wealthier than Lerner was, so that shouldn’t be a problem. I just hope they’re still as invested as they were, as the lack of another signing or two to really push on this season is a bit of a concern.
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The Ings move seemed very opportunist that's all wel and good as he's quality however what happend to the precise planning and strategy of clearly identification of players to bring in.
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I'm completely certain there's a plan behind buying Ings. It might not be a plan everyone likes, but there'll definitely be one.
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The Ings move seemed very opportunist that's all wel and good as he's quality however what happend to the precise planning and strategy of clearly identification of players to bring in.
The fact that we didn't know about it, doesn't mean it was "opportunist". I think it would be a mistake to equate, "we didn't hear about it" with "the club only decided on him at the last minute".
It was common knowledge he was going into the last year on his contract, and since early summer he'd been spoken about as a possible option for Spurs, or whoever missed out on Kane. The fact that we snuck in under the radar doesn't mean we weren't also interested from the very beginning, it just means we managed to keep it quiet, or that the media didn't see us a serious option for him. He could well have been top of our wanted list for that type of player.
It could equally be that we only decided to bid for Ings once Joe said he wanted to go, but we're only speculating either way.
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The consensus on how transfers work at the Villa these days seems to be that we have a system where Lange, assisted by scouts and suggestions from Smith is given a remit for the type of players Smith requires. He then compiles a shortlist of 'getable' players that fit the profile and budget for us to select from. It also seems that Smith gets to pick, and gets a veto on any he does not fancy.
Pure conjecture this, but given the noises from the various ITK types (yeah I know) what I suspect may have happened is this. Smith identified that we required a RW (selected Buendia), a CB (selected Tuanzebe), and a CM (selected JWP) and an AMC (selected Smith Rowe). We got two of them.
Jack then left and priorities changed. I think we then needed another winger, and a centre forwards (In came Bailey and Ings) but still were looking at a couple of midfielders with JWP and Cantwell being Smiths top targets.
What I think then happened is that Smith has stuck to his guns and rejected the alternatives to his top picks, insisting on 'proven premier league' like JWP but our budget has been around tha £25m a player mark and we would not pay the £40m+ quoted by Southampton and Norwich. I suspect we had other alternatives in the list identified by Lange, but Smith has stuck his neck and said he would rather not have them if he can't get his first choices.
If that is the case then the onus is on him to make it work, or it will no doubt cost him his job. I simply do not believe our owners did not make around £50m available for a couple more players, as all the noise around JWP, ESR and Cantwell had us offering £25m each for them. I think we could have got good players from elsewhere for that kind of money, but not the 'proven Premier League' ones the manager wanted.
For me the best value signing this window has been the one most likely to from Lange - Bailey. Buendia is a good player but we paid a lot of money to get him. Ditto Ings. I would have liked us to have gone and recruited at least one more 'Lange' signing. It does feel like Smith is becoming a bit like MON in this respect.
This seems plausible - he does seem a touch stubborn at times. Think this season is make or break for him.
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Not really sure what wouldn’t be to like about buying Ings. We had no real striking depth beyond Ollie and we now have two proven top flight goal scorers.
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I think the owners might be saving the, ahem, war chest for January. That gives them some flexibility to get players that will suit Dean or the new manager if he hasn’t made a good start by about November. To clarify and avoid further ‘how can you know that’ remarks, this is just an opinion, the expression of which I believed to be the point of the thread.
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To be fair, EVERY full season has been make or break for him. Keep us up or he'll be gone, consolidate and no risk of relegation or he'll be gone, now we're at 'challenging for Europe or he'll be gone'. We compete in a result-oriented industry, and there will definitely be pressure, but I don't believe that's anything new. I would imagine every single premier league manager knows he could be out of a job in 15 games if things go badly.
My only hope is that hovering around the same place we were last season won't mean he's under too much pressure. If he falls below that, then fair enough. But I think given the loss of Joe, and the new faces, if we're in mid-table come January - having shown at times that we're capable of much better - then I'd be reasonably comfortable. I absolutely want us challenging for the top 6, but I'm not going to immediately blame Dean if we're not, given the summer we've had.
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I think the owners might be saving the, ahem, war chest for January. That gives them some flexibility to get players that will suit Dean or the new manager if he hasn’t made a good start by about November. To clarify and avoid further ‘how can you know that’ remarks, this is just an opinion, the expression of which I believed to be the point of the thread.
I'd like to think so. I would love to know what impact the Joe sale has had on our FFP position? I'm not sure how much of this is likely to be public, and how much comes down to creative accounting, but I imagine it has put us in a pretty good position to land a really big signing if one becomes available?
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Maybe we thought that Covid had depressed the market to an extent where those figures were thoight realistic, I think we were more sensible than the market is.
I wasn't that excited about any of them as potential signings but the JWP bid was hilariously low-ball. 40m at least in the market and considering what we bought Ings for with no contract left. Cantwell, 2 years of his contract left, has to be at least what we paid for Buendia with the British premium. Smith Rowe was about the most realistic bid for, imo an unproven youngster - 30m tops for me.
Could well be we were willing to negotiate and then the ratboy money arrived and everything went up by 20m. I could understand them pulling out in those circumstances.
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Clearly agenda to get English speaking or premier league experience players who can settle in
We already knew that, there were plenty of reports stating that Premier League Experience was the top priority - https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/aston-villa/2021/06/03/dean-smith-aston-villa-have-strategic-plan-to-challenge-premier-league-elite/ (https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/aston-villa/2021/06/03/dean-smith-aston-villa-have-strategic-plan-to-challenge-premier-league-elite/)
When seeking the signings who can help them take the next step, Smith and the club’s recruitment team talk of first finding the “sweet spot” of British players with prior Premier League experience, so as to lessen any adaptation risk. After that, the focus shifts to those who have played in Europe’s top five leagues.
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Robbie Earles likes it
quite happy myself thou a CDM would have been the icing .
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We get told every year that January is a crap time to try and do any business, so I really don’t believe that’s what they’re doing.
Greasy’s sale has given us £100m boost straight to profit, so FFP worries should be a thing of the past.
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The Ings move seemed very opportunist that's all wel and good as he's quality however what happend to the precise planning and strategy of clearly identification of players to bring in.
The fact that we didn't know about it, doesn't mean it was "opportunist". I think it would be a mistake to equate, "we didn't hear about it" with "the club only decided on him at the last minute".
It was common knowledge he was going into the last year on his contract, and since early summer he'd been spoken about as a possible option for Spurs, or whoever missed out on Kane. The fact that we snuck in under the radar doesn't mean we weren't also interested from the very beginning, it just means we managed to keep it quiet, or that the media didn't see us a serious option for him. He could well have been top of our wanted list for that type of player.
It could equally be that we only decided to bid for Ings once Joe said he wanted to go, but we're only speculating either way.
Ings has said himself that it was all done in two days. Villa tried desperately to delay Grealish announcements unitil it was done. It was almost certainly an opportunistic deal, partly to take the edge off losing Grealish. That's not to say it's not a good deal, but I'm convinced it was reactionary and partly damage limitation.
We all knew we were light up front, but getting a 29 y/o England striker was an odd move in our circumstances, particulaly if it forces a change of shape to a system Smith has never shown any inclination to play.
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Surely we can’t be happy with our midfield options but I’m not going to say that out loud until tomorrow.
Surely we can’t be happy with our midfield options
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In all seriousness, we did some very good business earlier in the window so we didn't have to panic on deadline day. Surely we all prefer that? I do, like everyone else, think we are short at DMF but it has to be the right one and not just 'beast' from anywhere.
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The Ings move seemed very opportunist that's all wel and good as he's quality however what happend to the precise planning and strategy of clearly identification of players to bring in.
The fact that we didn't know about it, doesn't mean it was "opportunist". I think it would be a mistake to equate, "we didn't hear about it" with "the club only decided on him at the last minute".
It was common knowledge he was going into the last year on his contract, and since early summer he'd been spoken about as a possible option for Spurs, or whoever missed out on Kane. The fact that we snuck in under the radar doesn't mean we weren't also interested from the very beginning, it just means we managed to keep it quiet, or that the media didn't see us a serious option for him. He could well have been top of our wanted list for that type of player.
It could equally be that we only decided to bid for Ings once Joe said he wanted to go, but we're only speculating either way.
Ings has said himself that it was all done in two days. Villa tried desperately to delay Grealish announcements unitil it was done. It was almost certainly an opportunistic deal, partly to take the edge off losing Grealish. That's not to say it's not a good deal, but I'm convinced it was reactionary and partly damage limitation.
We all knew we were light up front, but getting a 29 y/o England striker was an odd move in our circumstances, particulaly if it forces a change of shape to a system Smith has never shown any inclination to play.
I'm not denying it was done quickly, I mean more that it's unlikely we only decided to put Ings on our 'wanted list' at the very last minute. I would imagine he was on our list of players we wanted if Joe went from early on in the summer. The fact that we executed the deal quickly once Joe decided he was off, isn't necessarily evidence that we only decided we wanted Danny Ings at the last minute. I have no doubt Danny Ings probably only heard about our interest a day or two before the deal was done, but I suspect he was on our list LONG before that. I could be wrong, obviously, but it just doesn't seem like the way we do things these days.
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To be fair, EVERY full season has been make or break for him. Keep us up or he'll be gone, consolidate and no risk of relegation or he'll be gone, now we're at 'challenging for Europe or he'll be gone'. We compete in a result-oriented industry, and there will definitely be pressure, but I don't believe that's anything new. I would imagine every single premier league manager knows he could be out of a job in 15 games if things go badly.
My only hope is that hovering around the same place we were last season won't mean he's under too much pressure. If he falls below that, then fair enough. But I think given the loss of Joe, and the new faces, if we're in mid-table come January - having shown at times that we're capable of much better - then I'd be reasonably comfortable. I absolutely want us challenging for the top 6, but I'm not going to immediately blame Dean if we're not, given the summer we've had.
Good point - what I mean by make or break is showing he can adapt to post JG world and find a new way that consitently works and gets us safe to midtable. I would be happy with 12 now given all thats happened. I think we have our work cut out to do that. I really hope we do, I really want Smith to be here for years to come - but its feels like there is no excuses for bad runs as it looks like there was cash there and he seems to be instremental in not spending it. (clearly most of this is guess work mainly based on what vinnie said)
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In all seriousness, we did some very good business earlier in the window so we didn't have to panic on deadline day. Surely we all prefer that? I do, like everyone else, think we are short at DMF but it has to be the right one and not just 'beast' from anywhere.
Yes, Bailey, Buendia and Ings are very exciting signings. Young & Tuanzebe very practical signings. I'm happy with all that business.
I just think we could have been more ambitious and don't accept there isn't a DM or 10 out there that we couldn't have secured with the c £30-£40m budget we seemed to have available.
Hopefully Luiz, Ramsey and Sanson will all step up and make it a non point, but my sense is we've blown an opportunity to kick on.
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We're going to have to see how everyone does when they're back. I'm just a bit worried that the style we've been increasingly going towards will reach somewhat self-parodic levels, with absolutely zero interest in keeping the ball, and that this might hold us back and mean draws and defeats in games we should win.
On the other hand, after an extremely aimless start to the season it could be just what we need, to pick a style and really go for it. I hope so at least.
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I just believe that Grealish leaving threw all the plans for this season out the window. We all expected had he stayed we would be challenging top six. We are now back in consolidation again, now Dean doesn't have wonder boy anymore it will be interesting.
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I like Gregg Evans but he can't half be a bit of an idiot sometimes:
'There’s the prospect of Ings, a £25 million arrival, and Ollie Watkins up front. The thought of both Bailey, signed for £30 million, and Traore coming off the wings is exciting. Buendia, the £33 million record signing, is also ready to step up a few more gears after his goal at the weekend.'
Well, ok, but what formation is that?
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We're going to have to see how everyone does when they're back. I'm just a bit worried that the style we've been increasingly going towards will reach somewhat self-parodic levels, with absolutely zero interest in keeping the ball, and that this might hold us back and mean draws and defeats in games we should win.
On the other hand, after an extremely aimless start to the season it could be just what we need, to pick a style and really go for it. I hope so at least.
To be totally honest, if we had got a quality DM in during the window, I think we would be in decent enough shape if / when everyone is fit.
I agree with your concerns about style of play, as Danny Ings may not be suited to play in a team built to play with Ollie Watkins as the focal point, given that they are very different players.
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The overall squad has improved with the signings coming in & the development of some of the U23's. We've lost the diamond in the team but we were too reliant on him anyway. Let's make judgement after 10-12 matches.
But watching the progress our U18's & U23's are showing gives me more confidence in our future than any signings. We have a whole bunch of players coming through.
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Not concerned about fitting people in, we need a solid bench if we wish to compete, so that fine. We need to rest & rotate and play different formations for different opposition. But I do think we would have benefited from a CDM as others have mentioned and I think this alone could be the difference for up to 5 positions in the league.
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I like Gregg Evans but he can't half be a bit of an idiot sometimes:
'There’s the prospect of Ings, a £25 million arrival, and Ollie Watkins up front. The thought of both Bailey, signed for £30 million, and Traore coming off the wings is exciting. Buendia, the £33 million record signing, is also ready to step up a few more gears after his goal at the weekend.'
Well, ok, but what formation is that?
Kevin Keegan style Xmas tree....Man United seem in the same boat, very light on midfielders hence Fred is somehow their first choice number 6
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We're going to have to see how everyone does when they're back. I'm just a bit worried that the style we've been increasingly going towards will reach somewhat self-parodic levels, with absolutely zero interest in keeping the ball, and that this might hold us back and mean draws and defeats in games we should win.
On the other hand, after an extremely aimless start to the season it could be just what we need, to pick a style and really go for it. I hope so at least.
To be totally honest, if we had got a quality DM in during the window, I think we would be in decent enough shape if / when everyone is fit.
I agree with your concerns about style of play, as Danny Ings may not be suited to play in a team built to play with Ollie Watkins as the focal point, given that they are very different players.
So I'm actually quite content with Ings' role, he generally played as the more withdrawn striker behind a runner at Southampton, so it makes sense. I'm more worried that this focus on verticality, directness etc will make us one-dimensional.
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The overall squad has improved with the signings coming in & the development of some of the U23's. We've lost the diamond in the team but we were too reliant on him anyway. Let's make judgement after 10-12 matches.
But watching the progress our U18's & U23's are showing gives me more confidence in our future than any signings. We have a whole bunch of players coming through.
I think watching the style of play at lower levels gives a hint of what we want to do at premier league level. It's harder to nail it in the seniors because the quality and fitness of the opposition is so high but I think there are clear hints of how we want to be focusing on transitioning from defence to attack and moving the ball quickly into space where we can hurt teams. It's exactly what we did to Liverpool last year so we know it can work, we just need to get everyone fit and settled.
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The overall squad has improved with the signings coming in & the development of some of the U23's. We've lost the diamond in the team but we were too reliant on him anyway. Let's make judgement after 10-12 matches.
But watching the progress our U18's & U23's are showing gives me more confidence in our future than any signings. We have a whole bunch of players coming through.
I think watching the style of play at lower levels gives a hint of what we want to do at premier league level. It's harder to nail it in the seniors because the quality and fitness of the opposition is so high but I think there are clear hints of how we want to be focusing on transitioning from defence to attack and moving the ball quickly into space where we can hurt teams. It's exactly what we did to Liverpool last year so we know it can work, we just need to get everyone fit and settled.
do you think our defenders are up to moving the ball quickly enough for that to work? The only one that seems able to pick a pass quickly is Target.
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Kevin Keegan style Xmas tree....Man United seem in the same boat, very light on midfielders hence Fred is somehow their first choice number 6
Are you saying we're light on midfielders? - Luiz, McGinn, Sanson, Ramsey Major, Buendia. And: Carney C, Nakamba, Young.
I don't think we lack for midfielders: we just have a DMF missing.
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We're going to have to see how everyone does when they're back. I'm just a bit worried that the style we've been increasingly going towards will reach somewhat self-parodic levels, with absolutely zero interest in keeping the ball, and that this might hold us back and mean draws and defeats in games we should win.
On the other hand, after an extremely aimless start to the season it could be just what we need, to pick a style and really go for it. I hope so at least.
To be totally honest, if we had got a quality DM in during the window, I think we would be in decent enough shape if / when everyone is fit.
I agree with your concerns about style of play, as Danny Ings may not be suited to play in a team built to play with Ollie Watkins as the focal point, given that they are very different players.
So I'm actually quite content with Ings' role, he generally played as the more withdrawn striker behind a runner at Southampton, so it makes sense. I'm more worried that this focus on verticality, directness etc will make us one-dimensional.
Will be interesting to see how they are paired together when both are fit. My concern would be expecting Ings to fit into the formation we played last season, which relied on Watkins doing a lot of hold up play and chasing balls in the channels at times. Not sure he would be suited to that.
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Kevin Keegan style Xmas tree....Man United seem in the same boat, very light on midfielders hence Fred is somehow their first choice number 6
Are you saying we're light on midfielders? - Luiz, McGinn, Sanson, Ramsey Major, Buendia. And: Carney C, Nakamba, Young.
I don't think we lack for midfielders: we just have a DMF missing.
That's essentially the point he's making isn't it? Utd have loads of midfielders, just no good DMs.
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Kevin Keegan style Xmas tree....Man United seem in the same boat, very light on midfielders hence Fred is somehow their first choice number 6
Are you saying we're light on midfielders? - Luiz, McGinn, Sanson, Ramsey Major, Buendia. And: Carney C, Nakamba, Young.
I don't think we lack for midfielders: we just have a DMF missing.
None of those with the possible exception of Luiz are true CMs capable of playing in a two at a decent level. We needed that one proper midfielder to knit it all together.
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We're going to have to see how everyone does when they're back. I'm just a bit worried that the style we've been increasingly going towards will reach somewhat self-parodic levels, with absolutely zero interest in keeping the ball, and that this might hold us back and mean draws and defeats in games we should win.
On the other hand, after an extremely aimless start to the season it could be just what we need, to pick a style and really go for it. I hope so at least.
To be totally honest, if we had got a quality DM in during the window, I think we would be in decent enough shape if / when everyone is fit.
I agree with your concerns about style of play, as Danny Ings may not be suited to play in a team built to play with Ollie Watkins as the focal point, given that they are very different players.
So I'm actually quite content with Ings' role, he generally played as the more withdrawn striker behind a runner at Southampton, so it makes sense. I'm more worried that this focus on verticality, directness etc will make us one-dimensional.
Will be interesting to see how they are paired together when both are fit. My concern would be expecting Ings to fit into the formation we played last season, which relied on Watkins doing a lot of hold up play and chasing balls in the channels at times. Not sure he would be suited to that.
I think the formation for much of last season, with Barkley at 10, will be tweaked to become something more like a 4-4-2 with split strikers, and the wide midfielders playing more narrow. Ings comes in for Barkley in this system.
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We're going to have to see how everyone does when they're back. I'm just a bit worried that the style we've been increasingly going towards will reach somewhat self-parodic levels, with absolutely zero interest in keeping the ball, and that this might hold us back and mean draws and defeats in games we should win.
On the other hand, after an extremely aimless start to the season it could be just what we need, to pick a style and really go for it. I hope so at least.
To be totally honest, if we had got a quality DM in during the window, I think we would be in decent enough shape if / when everyone is fit.
I agree with your concerns about style of play, as Danny Ings may not be suited to play in a team built to play with Ollie Watkins as the focal point, given that they are very different players.
So I'm actually quite content with Ings' role, he generally played as the more withdrawn striker behind a runner at Southampton, so it makes sense. I'm more worried that this focus on verticality, directness etc will make us one-dimensional.
Will be interesting to see how they are paired together when both are fit. My concern would be expecting Ings to fit into the formation we played last season, which relied on Watkins doing a lot of hold up play and chasing balls in the channels at times. Not sure he would be suited to that.
I think the formation for much of last season, with Barkley at 10, will be tweaked to become something more like a 4-4-2 with split strikers, and the wide midfielders playing more narrow. Ings comes in for Barkley in this system.
If we go that way there will be good players on the bench. If we go 433 there will be good players on the bench. I think that's the real difference this year, with our 'best' 11 out last season there weren't many players outside looking in with a strong case to start, this season we have 3-4 of them when everyone is fit. I think it's easy to try to mess with the team to try to fit Bailey, Ings, Watkins, Buendia and Traore in but then you look at the midfield and have Luiz, McGinn and Sanson to fit in and in defence Young probably doesn't start in the 'best XI' for many but has a lot of quality. That's not even considering the youngsters who are improving quickly.
I think we 're going to have to be much more flexible if we want to keep the squad happy and I hope Smith is ready for that.
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My view is that we'll have a best 11 with 'first change' options of viable quality (Traoré, Sanson, Ramsey, Young etc). If the overall strategy clicks, then that's all great. If it doesn't, that'll be a bigger problem.
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We're going to have to see how everyone does when they're back. I'm just a bit worried that the style we've been increasingly going towards will reach somewhat self-parodic levels, with absolutely zero interest in keeping the ball, and that this might hold us back and mean draws and defeats in games we should win.
On the other hand, after an extremely aimless start to the season it could be just what we need, to pick a style and really go for it. I hope so at least.
To be totally honest, if we had got a quality DM in during the window, I think we would be in decent enough shape if / when everyone is fit.
I agree with your concerns about style of play, as Danny Ings may not be suited to play in a team built to play with Ollie Watkins as the focal point, given that they are very different players.
So I'm actually quite content with Ings' role, he generally played as the more withdrawn striker behind a runner at Southampton, so it makes sense. I'm more worried that this focus on verticality, directness etc will make us one-dimensional.
Will be interesting to see how they are paired together when both are fit. My concern would be expecting Ings to fit into the formation we played last season, which relied on Watkins doing a lot of hold up play and chasing balls in the channels at times. Not sure he would be suited to that.
I think the formation for much of last season, with Barkley at 10, will be tweaked to become something more like a 4-4-2 with split strikers, and the wide midfielders playing more narrow. Ings comes in for Barkley in this system.
Agree Monty, though I do think that if we are going to play that formation with Ings in that role, then we are going to be exposed in central midfield.
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Overall I’m expecting us to look pretty decent once we have our best players back and they’re given time to gel but we might need to ride out a few growing pains in the meantime.
Aside from the well trodden midfield debate I’m surprised we didn’t get another senior keeper, especially given we’ve been bitten there before but I guess there’s plenty unattached if needs be. Window was always going to be soured by you know who leaving and I must admit, I expected us to go big on one more addition, but overall we’ve done good business. Main thing now is to get our best players back to fitness.
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Overall I’m expecting us to look pretty decent once we have our best players back and they’re given time to gel but we might need to ride out a few growing pains in the meantime.
Aside from the well trodden midfield debate I’m surprised we didn’t get another senior keeper, especially given we’ve been bitten there before but I guess there’s plenty unattached if needs be. Window was always going to be soured by you know who leaving and I must admit, I expected us to go big on one more addition, but overall we’ve done good business. Main thing now is to get our best players back to fitness.
The keeper situation is fine, I think. Steer has plenty of first-team experience (only this week I re-watched the highlights of the play-off semi-final at West Brom and he made a couple of world-class saves, plus the penalty saves, I'd imagine a couple of years working with Heaton and Emi have improved him also), and to get down as far as third-choice goalkeeper we'd have to be pretty unlucky, injury/suspension wise. In any case Sinisalo has some reasonable experience now up in Scotland - definitely not enough to pushing for first-team appearances, but certainly enough to be 3rd choice. I'd imagine if we did have to cope with an injury to Emi AND Jed for any period of time, we'd be appealing to the premier league for special dispensation to bring another one in anyway?
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The Sky 6 are all going to look a bit frightening on paper.
Good job it's not played on paper. They can be matched on effort and the hope that Deano is about to become some sort of master tactician.
I would imagine Leicester have taken Arsenals place.
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GK - As long as Martinez stays fit fine, if he doesn't we're in the shit. Overall weaker than last season but to be expected with Heaton not likely to stick around on the bench. Still, an experienced pro on loan for 12 months might have been good.
DF - Same back four as last season was always going to be fine but we needed more back up. Offloaded 3 defenders and sent another on loan who was also out last season. Those defenders weren't great but only bought 2 back in, one won't last forever and the other is an injury nightmare waiting to happen (and on loan). Both good players but when Tuenzebe inevitably gets injured we're going to look very light on numbers again. If by some miracle he doesn't i'd say slight improvement for defensive options.
MID - Same old 3 of McGinn, Luiz and Nakamba from the 1st season plus the injury plagued and unconvincing Sanson as the departing on loan Hourahane's replacement. Add 2 kids as back up and options, one of which is only 17 and not a lot has changed there and this was the area desperate for improvement.
FOR - Wesley, Grealish and the on-loan Barkley plus the long term injured Trez replaced by Ings, Bailey, Philogene-Baidace and Buendia. If they all perform then i think this will be an improvement for sure. Time will tell. Just not being reliant one one player will be refreshing though.
Overall, i think time will tell but at the moment i'd predict the best we'll do is finish the same as last season and that is only if we keep the key players fit.
6/10
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I can't recall Steer letting us down in the past. I know he has had injury problems but if he can show the same kind of form that he did during the playoff charge then he is more than a capable deputy. To be honest I can't understand why a decent championship side hasn't picked him up already. Heaton was a very expensive reserve.
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Overall I’m expecting us to look pretty decent once we have our best players back and they’re given time to gel but we might need to ride out a few growing pains in the meantime.
Aside from the well trodden midfield debate I’m surprised we didn’t get another senior keeper, especially given we’ve been bitten there before but I guess there’s plenty unattached if needs be. Window was always going to be soured by you know who leaving and I must admit, I expected us to go big on one more addition, but overall we’ve done good business. Main thing now is to get our best players back to fitness.
The keeper situation is fine, I think. Steer has plenty of first-team experience (only this week I re-watched the highlights of the play-off semi-final at West Brom and he made a couple of world-class saves, plus the penalty saves, I'd imagine a couple of years working with Heaton and Emi have improved him also), and to get down as far as third-choice goalkeeper we'd have to be pretty unlucky, injury/suspension wise. In any case Sinisalo has some reasonable experience now up in Scotland - definitely not enough to pushing for first-team appearances, but certainly enough to be 3rd choice. I'd imagine if we did have to cope with an injury to Emi AND Jed for any period of time, we'd be appealing to the premier league for special dispensation to bring another one in anyway?
I think you're right. The club haven't listed Sinisalo on the squad pages, presumably as they view him as being an Academy player. I expect we'll see him on the bench for cup games and if Martinez gets injured.
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All i read is we need a midfield destroyer
So assuming we have money as no object who is the one magical player that would be the key to what everyone is clamouring for
Phillips from Leeds
Kante from Chelsea
Matic from Red filth
I would be interested in who others feel should be "the "player as there cannot be many that fit the bill who we could get and who would be an instant 1st team hit
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Hypothetically of course - assuming we're talking long term it woud be Philips for me, without a doubt.
He has the rare ability to play as a lone DM with outstanding distribution, but he is also easily good enough to play in a 2 or 3 as a more box to box player. An outstanding talent and I really wish we'd broken the bank for him in 2019. It was close by all accounts.
I'd also take Rice as an ideal player for the role we need.
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Bissouma?
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All i read is we need a midfield destroyer
So assuming we have money as no object who is the one magical player that would be the key to what everyone is clamouring for
Phillips from Leeds
Kante from Chelsea
Matic from Red filth
I would be interested in who others feel should be "the "player as there cannot be many that fit the bill who we could get and who would be an instant 1st team hit
Rice - first choice; Phillips - second choice. Neither are gettable.
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I dont think we are getting europe with this squad to be honest.
This squad won't even make the top 10.
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I dont think we are getting europe with this squad to be honest.
This squad won't even make the top 10.
Might not, but it’s too early to write us off. Assuming Man C, Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs, Leicester, West Ham and Everton are all likely to, means Arsenal, us, Leeds, Brighton, maybe Brentford / Southampton are fighting for 2 places.
Not nailed on or anything, but surely we’ve got a decent chance?
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I dont think we are getting europe with this squad to be honest.
This squad won't even make the top 10.
Might not, but it’s too early to write us off. Assuming Man C, Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs, Leicester, West Ham and Everton are all likely to, means Arsenal, us, Leeds, Brighton, maybe Brentford / Southampton are fighting for 2 places.
Not nailed on or anything, but surely we’ve got a decent chance?
I think you're right but the problem is that, at the end of last season, we expected to be overtaking at least one of Spurs, Leicester, West ham and Everton and putting some space between us and Leeds, Brighton and Southampton with Brentford not even being considered as a rival. So in that regard, and whether or not that was ever realistic, the 'hopefully top ten' is a bit of a downwards management of expectations.
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I dont think we are getting europe with this squad to be honest.
This squad won't even make the top 10.
Might not, but it’s too early to write us off. Assuming Man C, Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs, Leicester, West Ham and Everton are all likely to, means Arsenal, us, Leeds, Brighton, maybe Brentford / Southampton are fighting for 2 places.
Not nailed on or anything, but surely we’ve got a decent chance?
I think you're right but the problem is that, at the end of last season, we expected to be overtaking at least one of Spurs, Leicester, West ham and Everton and putting some space between us and Leeds, Brighton and Southampton with Brentford not even being considered as a rival. So in that regard, and whether or not that was ever realistic, the 'hopefully top ten' is a bit of a downwards management of expectations.
We probably would have done if Grealish wasn’t injured for 10 games or whatever it was
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I dont think we are getting europe with this squad to be honest.
This squad won't even make the top 10.
Might not, but it’s too early to write us off. Assuming Man C, Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs, Leicester, West Ham and Everton are all likely to, means Arsenal, us, Leeds, Brighton, maybe Brentford / Southampton are fighting for 2 places.
Not nailed on or anything, but surely we’ve got a decent chance?
I think you're right but the problem is that, at the end of last season, we expected to be overtaking at least one of Spurs, Leicester, West ham and Everton and putting some space between us and Leeds, Brighton and Southampton with Brentford not even being considered as a rival. So in that regard, and whether or not that was ever realistic, the 'hopefully top ten' is a bit of a downwards management of expectations.
We probably would have done if Grealish wasn’t injured for 10 games or whatever it was
I probably worded that badly. I meant, at the end of the last match we thought... blah blah
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I dont think we are getting europe with this squad to be honest.
This squad won't even make the top 10.
Might not, but it’s too early to write us off. Assuming Man C, Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs, Leicester, West Ham and Everton are all likely to, means Arsenal, us, Leeds, Brighton, maybe Brentford / Southampton are fighting for 2 places.
Not nailed on or anything, but surely we’ve got a decent chance?
I think you're right but the problem is that, at the end of last season, we expected to be overtaking at least one of Spurs, Leicester, West ham and Everton and putting some space between us and Leeds, Brighton and Southampton with Brentford not even being considered as a rival. So in that regard, and whether or not that was ever realistic, the 'hopefully top ten' is a bit of a downwards management of expectations.
We probably would have done if Grealish wasn’t injured for 10 games or whatever it was
how many do you expect us to overtake now?
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I dont think we are getting europe with this squad to be honest.
This squad won't even make the top 10.
Might not, but it’s too early to write us off. Assuming Man C, Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs, Leicester, West Ham and Everton are all likely to, means Arsenal, us, Leeds, Brighton, maybe Brentford / Southampton are fighting for 2 places.
Not nailed on or anything, but surely we’ve got a decent chance?
I think you're right but the problem is that, at the end of last season, we expected to be overtaking at least one of Spurs, Leicester, West ham and Everton and putting some space between us and Leeds, Brighton and Southampton with Brentford not even being considered as a rival. So in that regard, and whether or not that was ever realistic, the 'hopefully top ten' is a bit of a downwards management of expectations.
We probably would have done if Grealish wasn’t injured for 10 games or whatever it was
I think his comeback game at Spurs was a real what could have been moment. Grealish played very well, for a player that wasn't remotely fit particularly. But the influence he had on our other players was huge. Watkins, Traore and McGinn in particular were transformed the same day. Also his presence could spook opposition players creating space for others, the likes of Hojberg and Winks that day were terrified of him. I always thought any debate on Grealish focused solely on his goals and assists only scratched the surface of his influence on the team.
That's going to take some time to change unfortunately and will require patience with management and players.
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The transformation was scary. Went from a team of strangers to taking the games to the opposition without fear. Even when he went off at Spurs you could almost see the level drop around him.
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I dont think we are getting europe with this squad to be honest.
This squad won't even make the top 10.
Might not, but it’s too early to write us off. Assuming Man C, Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs, Leicester, West Ham and Everton are all likely to, means Arsenal, us, Leeds, Brighton, maybe Brentford / Southampton are fighting for 2 places.
Not nailed on or anything, but surely we’ve got a decent chance?
I think you're right but the problem is that, at the end of last season, we expected to be overtaking at least one of Spurs, Leicester, West ham and Everton and putting some space between us and Leeds, Brighton and Southampton with Brentford not even being considered as a rival. So in that regard, and whether or not that was ever realistic, the 'hopefully top ten' is a bit of a downwards management of expectations.
We probably would have done if Grealish wasn’t injured for 10 games or whatever it was
how many do you expect us to overtake now?
I think we can hope to stay above Brighton and Brentford, despite the huge resources they have. Hopefully Southampton too. I don’t see us finishing ahead of Leicester, West Ham, Leeds, Arsenal or Everton unless they underperform over the season. Obviously, Arsenal are making a spirited effort to do so. Everton might struggle. I thought this would be the year that the wheels came off at Spurs but it looks rosy there. Wolves weren’t mentioned in the original post and they should be in the middling group if Brentford are. I think we’ll avoid a relegation odds thread and have a brief European places thread at some point which will quietly tail off after a few weeks.
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I like Gregg Evans but he can't half be a bit of an idiot sometimes:
'There’s the prospect of Ings, a £25 million arrival, and Ollie Watkins up front. The thought of both Bailey, signed for £30 million, and Traore coming off the wings is exciting. Buendia, the £33 million record signing, is also ready to step up a few more gears after his goal at the weekend.'
Well, ok, but what formation is that?
the Kevin Keegan of 1995
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You can’t replace the quality of Grealish by signing other players (no matter what guff they try to sell us about signing 3 players with his attributes), so the aim has to be to improve the team and squad that was available when he was out injured. There’s no question that we have done that, but only time will tell if we become a better team without the over reliance on him…as it stands, I don’t think we’ve done enough in this transfer market when we had the perfect opportunity to do so.
While I agree you can't replace the departed individual, I do not agree with the assumption that 3 players in the team, at the same time, cannot be better than how we where with Joe.
For a start, there would be 3 players all in different positions, all being attended by at least 1 opposing player & therefore stretching the opposing team across a larger area than when they where marking Joe in clusters.
We are yet to see it, but I'm hopeful these additions will create more passing & scoring chances.
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I think time will tell how good this transfer window's been. But my take ...
The Good
- In Bailey & Buendia, we have two players who can go straight in to the first team & improve it
- We've added Young & Tuanzebe - that's improved the quality of the 'squad' players at next to no cost
- We now have a pair of strikers (Ings & Watkins) who wouldn't look out of place at a club with ambitions of European football.
- We've signed a load of promising youngsters.
- Ramsey Sr has developed in to a first team player. JBP potentially could do the same over the course of the season. That's without counting players like Chucky Jr, Archer, ... who are maybe a bit further off, but no less exciting.
- After a worrying August, the coaching staff feels 'upgraded'.
The bad
- We've lost Guilbert & Elmo, and let Kesler go out on loan. I'm not sure we have a good option for backup right back which doesn't feel like we'd be playing someone outside their natural position
- Quisling. Talked about to death now.
- Nakamba is our only proper defensive midfielder, and he's quite limited in what he can do
- We're weaker in terms of keepers, after Martinez at least.
- Nothing, or next to nothing, recouped for Hourihane or Guilbert. Made a loss on Engels & Samatta.
The ugly
- We've spent quite a bit - must be near enough £100m once you factor Sanson in
- FFP-wise, we must be good for a few seasons now
- Missing out first on ESR, then JWP - it feels like we've been reluctant to push the boat out, and that feels like a missed opportunity
I'd put it down as a 7/10 window. It's not the unmitigated disaster that some are saying, but it feels more like "one small step" than it does "a giant leap".
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I think time will tell how good this transfer window's been. But my take .
The ugly
- We've spent quite a bit - must be near enough £100m once you factor Sanson in
- FFP-wise, we must be good for a few seasons
I was reading what simon jordan said about ffp and he sais as grealish didnt cost us another as was a youth player thats 100m profit on the balance sheet (regardless of other transfers) he said villa are in a very healthy position in terms of ffp for a goid 5 years.
I do wonder if thats why we are signing all these exciting youngsters for cheap. If they go on to be stars and we sell one for 35m lets say down the line. Thats 35m profit for ffp[/list]
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- Missing out first on ESR, then JWP - it feels like we've been reluctant to push the boat out, and that feels like a missed opportunity
i don't think ESR was ever a serious proposition and villa's interest was being used by his agents as a stick to beat arsenal with.
JWP on the other hand, was gettable. the guy wants to play for england, and there are existing england squad players at our club. it would have cost a lot of money to get him though and we would have needed to break our transfer record again. the irony of it all, is that ings coming to us probably freed up the wage budget for saints to offer JWP a deal he couldn't refuse!
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I dont think we are getting europe with this squad to be honest.
This squad won't even make the top 10.
Might not, but it’s too early to write us off. Assuming Man C, Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs, Leicester, West Ham and Everton are all likely to, means Arsenal, us, Leeds, Brighton, maybe Brentford / Southampton are fighting for 2 places.
Not nailed on or anything, but surely we’ve got a decent chance?
I think you're right but the problem is that, at the end of last season, we expected to be overtaking at least one of Spurs, Leicester, West ham and Everton and putting some space between us and Leeds, Brighton and Southampton with Brentford not even being considered as a rival. So in that regard, and whether or not that was ever realistic, the 'hopefully top ten' is a bit of a downwards management of expectations.
We probably would have done if Grealish wasn’t injured for 10 games or whatever it was
how many do you expect us to overtake now?
All of em
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I think with Grealish here, there was an urgent need to get Champions League football in order to keep him. This was always a tall order given our recent history. Without him, it seems like the emphasis on youth development has taken on bigger significance that it already had. It seems that we're prepared to take on a more steady approach with recognition that it's going to take longer.
Tbh though, it's not a good thing to be an ok side with one outstanding player and we've seen what happens when that's the case. Much better to be a very good overall side that's not overly reliant on one individual.
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I think with Grealish here, there was an urgent need to get Champions League football in order to keep him. This was always a tall order given our recent history. Without him, it seems like the emphasis on youth development has taken on bigger significance that it already had. It seems that we're prepared to take on a more steady approach with recognition that it's going to take longer.
Tbh though, it's not a good thing to be an ok side with one outstanding player and we've seen what happens when that's the case. Much better to be a very good overall side that's not overly reliant on one individual.
And maybe that’s the mindshift we all have to make, galling though it is to lose a generational talent, Football is a team game.
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I'm happy with the business we have done the squad looks good.
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well it will, hopefully, when we actually see some of them play.