Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Villan For Life on August 24, 2021, 10:53:43 PM
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We’ve a few already out on loan which is good to see and it should see their careers develop to our advantage.
From what we’ve seen tonight, both in the starting XI and the bench, who should we keep around the first team and who do we send out on loan?
For me Jason Philogene-Bidace and Carney Chukumeka look to be special players and should be in the first team squad with Cam Archer in the mix. Caleb Chukumeka needs a loan to a championship club so he’s getting experience at a higher level than Northampton and that Hourihane looks like a good solid pro!
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Don't forget Aaron Ramsey.
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Won the FA Youth cup in style..A totally different team,though 3 or 4 of the Youth Cup winners still under 18,beat Norwich u18 10-0. Chuk Jr and JPB have made their PL debuts.Ramsey sr looked really good v the Toon.And tonight Archer was truly legiondary.
The list of talented youngsters is extraordinary.
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A lot's been mentioned of the 3 most obvious young lads so I'll mention that Aaron Ramsey and I liked what I saw of Lindley too.
By the end of the game it seemed to be all kids and Barrow were on the floor by that point. The full-time whistle was a mercy for them.
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A lot's been mentioned of the 3 most obvious young lads so I'll mention that Aaron Ramsey and I liked what I saw of Lindley too.
By the end of the game it seemed to be all kids and Barrow were on the floor by that point. The full-time whistle was a mercy for them.
Aaron Ramsey has a touch of class about him.
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Ramsey reminds me of Joe what's-his-name. Always wants the ball, controls it instantly, and moves gracefully over the turf.
Oh, and he scores and makes shedloads of goals!
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Ramsey reminds me of Joe what's-his-name. Always wants the ball, controls it instantly, and moves gracefully over the turf.
I was thinking that but I didn’t want to post it.
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That blond haired kid that came on for Guilbert looked handy. Composed on the ball and his passing looked very tidy.
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Re: Lindley - didn’t everyone watch the Yoof v Liverpool cup tie?
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Re: Lindley - didn’t everyone watch the Yoof v Liverpool cup tie?
yes I like Lindley, excellent passer of the ball.
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Ramsey reminds me of Joe what's-his-name. Always wants the ball, controls it instantly, and moves gracefully over the turf.
I was thinking that but I didn’t want to post it.
I get Mason Greenwood vibes. Lethal shot and technically very comfortable.
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Hopefully we can get a relatively easy draw in the next round so they can get another run out. Oldham, Rochdale, Arsenal, someone like that would do nicely.
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A lot's been mentioned of the 3 most obvious young lads so I'll mention that Aaron Ramsey and I liked what I saw of Lindley too.
By the end of the game it seemed to be all kids and Barrow were on the floor by that point. The full-time whistle was a mercy for them.
Aaron Ramsey has a touch of class about him.
I'd go as far as to say that Aaron Ramsey will become the best of a very, very talented bunch of youth players. The lad has got tremendous vision with fantastic control and turn of pace.
I cannot wait to see more of this lad in the future.
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Several things stood out and impressed me last night with the youngsters:
They all looked technically competent, good first touch and weight of pass.
They all showed good temperament - Barrow tried to install them either physicality, but they stood up to it well and didn't get drawn into any silly argy-bargy.
They interchanged positions and showed a good understanding of their roles and positions.
Towards the end when Barrow were flagging, they still had great pace and poise- testament to the physical conditioning work being done with all the teams at Bodymoor
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If the football gods gave us these kids as compensation for losing he who shall not be named, I think we did very well out of the deal. It's going to be an exciting season seeing them develop, both the ones at the club and those on loan.
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Hopefully we can get a relatively easy draw in the next round so they can get another run out. Oldham, Rochdale, Arsenal, someone like that would do nicely.
Chuckle
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If the football gods gave us these kids as compensation for losing he who shall not be named, I think we did very well out of the deal. It's going to be an exciting season seeing them develop, both the ones at the club and those on loan.
I was thinking much the same. Having one break through is good, having nearly a full team of them is something else. Our very own class of ‘92 by 2022, wouldn’t that be something?
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If the football gods gave us these kids as compensation for losing he who shall not be named, I think we did very well out of the deal. It's going to be an exciting season seeing them develop, both the ones at the club and those on loan.
I was thinking much the same. Having one break through is good, having nearly a full team of them is something else. Our very own class of ‘92 by 2022, wouldn’t that be something?
Yeah. Seeing Archer, JPB, & Chucky Jr last night - there's a bright future ahead. I know they're not quite Premier League ready just yet, and I know it was "only" Barrow, ... but the way that those 3 (and AEG) ripped them to shreds was incredible.
Really hope we get someone from League 1 in the next round to see how they perform against players at that level. My gut instinct is that they'll still look a cut above.
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I reckon they'd beat most a league higher too.
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If the football gods gave us these kids as compensation for losing he who shall not be named, I think we did very well out of the deal. It's going to be an exciting season seeing them develop, both the ones at the club and those on loan.
I was thinking much the same. Having one break through is good, having nearly a full team of them is something else. Our very own class of ‘92 by 2022, wouldn’t that be something?
Said it before, but I think West Ham's Class of about 99 was arguably better than Manure.
Rio Ferdinand, Carrick, Joe Cole, Lampard, Defoe and others like Bywater and Bullard all came through at about that time
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The nice thing about last night was how seamlessly everything fitted together. Again it was "only" Barrow, but our recent history is littered with defeat in the early rounds of cups to "only" teams. We didn't just scrape through either, we absolutely wiped the floor with them. It suggests that in Chuk, JPB and Archer, we have three youngsters at least who should be in and around the first team this season. Compare that to recent years where our great hope was Hepburn-Murphy, who is now (I believe) plying his trade in the Cypriot league.
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Agree with the general sentiment here. There’s nothing better as a fan than the excitement of home-grown talent emerging, watching them go from smashing it at youth level, to 10 minutes here and there, to becoming regular starters for the first team.
That’s why, to me, Jacob Ramsey’s performance against Newcastle was so exciting - we’d seen hints last year, but Saturday was the first time for me he’d put it all together into a really composed 90 minute premier league centre mid performance.
Of the newer crop, I’m no massive expert and it’s really hard to judge, but it looks like JPB, Carney, and on the basis of last night only for me, Archer, all have enough about them to possibly make it for us - which would be amazing. There’s a few others too - Kessler for example looks really promising.
I’m personally not that optimistic about Brad Young or Louie Barry as long term first team prospects for us.
Would love to be proved wrong on these two.
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Just think of the kids who aren't even being discussed because they're out on loan...Kesler, Barry, Young and Raikhy.
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Hepburn-Murphy is, unfortunately, the perfect example of why we probably need to temper our enthusiasm with this generation. I'm as guilty as anyone for getting over-excited by their potential, but RHM played for England at every youth level up to U20, was pretty much a goal a game in our youth set-up, made his premier league debut at 16, and seemed to have the world at his feet - but then completely stalled when he hit 20.
I keep telling myself that having one player from that youth cup winning team become a sold first-team player for us would be brilliant. Two would be incredible, three or more is practically unheard of. I'm sure most of them will have a career in football, but it would be like a lightning strike to see a proper handful as the core of our first team in five years time.
But lightning does indeed strike every now and again, and who wouldn't like to be sat here in twenty years time watching a documentary about the 'Class of 2021' and the unprecedented era of success they brought to Aston Villa?
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It would be unrealistic to expect every one of them to make it big. Two or three seems entirely possible, though. Maybe even more.
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Hepburn-Murphy is, unfortunately, the perfect example of why we probably need to temper our enthusiasm with this generation. I'm as guilty as anyone for getting over-excited by their potential, but RHM played for England at every youth level up to U20, was pretty much a goal a game in our youth set-up, made his premier league debut at 16, and seemed to have the world at his feet - but then completely stalled when he hit 20.
I keep telling myself that having one player from that youth cup winning team become a sold first-team player for us would be brilliant. Two would be incredible, three or more is practically unheard of. I'm sure most of them will have a career in football, but it would be like a lightning strike to see a proper handful as the core of our first team in five years time.
But lightning does indeed strike every now and again, and who wouldn't like to be sat here in twenty years time watching a documentary about the 'Class of 2021' and the unprecedented era of success they brought to Aston Villa?
This does feel a bit different now. Whereas we had the likes of RHM and O'Hare doing well in this reserves, this time we seem to have a coherent plan of going around and hoovering up the very best youngsters from all around the country. JPB for example, just looks like he expects to make it at this level. Not in a spoiled kid, over confident sort of way, just that he believes in himself and is made to play in the Premier League.
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How good these kids are for their ages is why i wouldn't be against only having a 'senior' group of about 20 players and is why I like that we have 9 subs now. It means you can have 4-5 experienced options on the bench but still have room for a few youngsters. If some of the senior players are very versatile it just makes things easier still.
Aside from that I think having such a talented group alongside a very youthful first team will go a long way in helping more of them make a fist of breaking through. They will be around players who are still on the way up and pushing each other to make it, hopefully.
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This does feel a bit different now. Whereas we had the likes of RHM and O'Hare doing well in this reserves, this time we seem to have a coherent plan of going around and hoovering up the very best youngsters from all around the country. JPB for example, just looks like he expects to make it at this level. Not in a spoiled kid, over confident sort of way, just that he believes in himself and is made to play in the Premier League.
The big difference might be that now we have a cohort, each member of which should hopefully keep each other's feet firmly on the ground. Furthermore, there are recent examples (JG and JR) of players being given the chance to play regularly in the first team.
The prospect of a group coming through into the first team is genuinely exciting in a way that hasn't been the case since the Moores, Ridgewell, Whittingham and Davis came through; and before that Little, Gidman, McDonald and Hunt.
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The nice thing about last night was how seamlessly everything fitted together. Again it was "only" Barrow, but our recent history is littered with defeat in the early rounds of cups to "only" teams. We didn't just scrape through either, we absolutely wiped the floor with them. It suggests that in Chuk, JPB and Archer, we have three youngsters at least who should be in and around the first team this season. Compare that to recent years where our great hope was Hepburn-Murphy, who is now (I believe) plying his trade in the Cypriot league.
It was seamless the way they slotted in, impressive and a big credit to the entire system at Villa, everyone knew their lines, nobody fluffed.
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Happy to see all the young lads now have upper body strength. Against a physical Barrow side they didn't allow themselves to be bullied. Only young Lindley looked like he needed a feed. Compare that to the past when too many youngsters making the step up weren't physically ready, we're certainly on the right path in preparing them to succeed.
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If the football gods gave us these kids as compensation for losing he who shall not be named, I think we did very well out of the deal. It's going to be an exciting season seeing them develop, both the ones at the club and those on loan.
I was thinking much the same. Having one break through is good, having nearly a full team of them is something else. Our very own class of ‘92 by 2022, wouldn’t that be something?
Said it before, but I think West Ham's Class of about 99 was arguably better than Manure.
Rio Ferdinand, Carrick, Joe Cole, Lampard, Defoe and others like Bywater and Bullard all came through at about that time
And from the recent era,Chelsea.,whose youth policy I think we are trying to copy..get the best young kids available.
Their recent England internationals,Reece James,Tomori,Chalobah,Hudson Odoi,Tammy,Solanke, Loftus-Cheek and the marvellous Mason Mount.The development of some of those was possibly hindered by Southgate giving England debuts too early in their careers and a huge first team squad limiting chances.
Like some of those above,full backs Livramento and Lamptey have moved on for sizeable fees.
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There’s an East London boys’ club called Senrab FC which has produced so many top class players it’s unbelievable. Including 4 Villa players, past and present
Edit- just checked and it’s 5 Villa players. JLloyd, Ugo, Terry, Curbishley, Konsa
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This, from a couple of years back, shows that south London is a bit of a hot spot too.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/oct/12/why-future-england-squads-will-have-heavy-south-london-accent
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It looks like NSWE may be trying to make Birmingham a hot spot for young talent too with a second academy near the city centre.
We do seem to have a similar strategy as Chelsea at youth level but not with the seniors, which means more kids getting their opportunity, which then only makes recruitment more appealing to the more talented kids where we're competing against others. We've already signed some of the most sort after kids because they could see a pathway to to the senior team.
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Understand #AVFC will not be renewing contracts for Brad Young, Arjan Raikhy, Hayden Lindley & Declan Frith. (Gregg Evans)
I'm surprised about Raikhy, I thought he'd have some sell on value at least.
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Understand #AVFC will not be renewing contracts for Brad Young, Arjan Raikhy, Hayden Lindley & Declan Frith. (Gregg Evans)
I'm surprised about Raikhy, I thought he'd have some sell on value at least.
I have never seen anything in him that suggests he was worth keeping. Young too. Nothing more than a straight line pace merchant...
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Understand #AVFC will not be renewing contracts for Brad Young, Arjan Raikhy, Hayden Lindley & Declan Frith. (Gregg Evans)
I'm surprised about Raikhy, I thought he'd have some sell on value at least.
I have never seen anything in him that suggests he was worth keeping. Young too. Nothing more than a straight line pace merchant...
They'll get contracts with lower level teams where they can try and live up to their potential on a smaller stage. If they were never going to have a chance of making it they'd have gone long before now. This way they can be snapped up for free.
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Understand #AVFC will not be renewing contracts for Brad Young, Arjan Raikhy, Hayden Lindley & Declan Frith. (Gregg Evans)
I'm surprised about Raikhy, I thought he'd have some sell on value at least.
Not overly surprised, three of them have had loans with little impact…sure they’ll all be trialling elsewhere over next couple of months as they need mens football not age group now
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Understand #AVFC will not be renewing contracts for Brad Young, Arjan Raikhy, Hayden Lindley & Declan Frith. (Gregg Evans)
I'm surprised about Raikhy, I thought he'd have some sell on value at least.
I have never seen anything in him that suggests he was worth keeping. Young too. Nothing more than a straight line pace merchant...
He looked excellent in the FA Youth cup final, probably our best player but then i saw him at the start of this season against Albion in an U21 game (i think it was) and he looked like he'd gone a long way backwards. (Raikhy)
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The brother of Chuckyourtoysoutofthepram I see is at Crawley Town who are 2nd from bottom in League Two and was subbed off at half time last weekend. He'll be gone at the end of the season I reckon.
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The brother of Chuckyourtoysoutofthepram I see is at Crawley Town who are 2nd from bottom in League Two and was subbed off at half time last weekend. He'll be gone at the end of the season I reckon.
He's never really showed much, has he?
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The brother of Chuckyourtoysoutofthepram I see is at Crawley Town who are 2nd from bottom in League Two and was subbed off at half time last weekend. He'll be gone at the end of the season I reckon.
He's never really showed much, has he?
This is his second loan, and he's not scored a first-team goal yet. I believe the Crawley loan was with an option to buy? Which would indicate what we thought of him.
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The brother of Chuckyourtoysoutofthepram I see is at Crawley Town who are 2nd from bottom in League Two and was subbed off at half time last weekend. He'll be gone at the end of the season I reckon.
He's never really showed much, has he?
This is his second loan, and he's not scored a first-team goal yet. I believe the Crawley loan was with an option to buy? Which would indicate what we thought of him.
He was only signed in an attempt to keep his brother sweet ( that went well). Crawley fans think he’s shite, which sums this whole saga up.
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It’s a shit business.
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I wonder what will happen with Finn Azaz.
Done really well at Plymouth, but will be 23 shortly after the season starts.
I know he's not really 'from' our youth btw, we nicked him from Sandwell.
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It’s a shit business.
Yup - I imagine having to release 18,19,20 year olds and shatter their dreams is just about the worst job in football. I don't suppose knowing on day one that you're going to be releasing most of them from every age group makes it any easier. The kids being released obviously have it WAY worse. I just hope that having had a few years in the Villa academy will be enough to get them a lower league contract so they can at least stay in the game professionally and build from there.
Two of my classmates from school did their YTS at Villa after leaving school (they were in Ricci Scimeca's year, yes I'm that old). They were both released at 18, and both played some lower league football for a couple of years, but neither were still playing professionally by their mid-twenties. I believe one of them stayed in the game as a coach, but not entirely sure.
I think these days these kids get a LOT more support than back then, but it's still brutal.
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They're all 20yrs old.
Haven't really pushed on since the Youth Cup.
From their perspective, better to get released and try and build their careers elsewhere.
We need to move players out to make space for the next age group to move up.
In truth if we get one player a season making it through to the first team squad we'd be doing well.
How many do the Greedy6 bring through?
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How many do the Greedy6 bring through?
Oddly, Chelsea do very well.
For all this, shows how when a club sells a home grown product even for 4 or 5m, it's a big success for their academy.
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It’s a shit business.
Yup - I imagine having to release 18,19,20 year olds and shatter their dreams is just about the worst job in football.
Some mates of mine played with a bloke about 25 years ago called Peter Curran. He was playing for a west London team called the Polytechnic whilst working down here but had come through the ranks at Aberdeen under Ferguson. Ferguson deLivered the news he was being released and he resented him thereafter.
I thought it was decent of Ferguson to take it on himself to deliver the news to those being released rather than leaving it to the academy staff. He did at least have the pleasure of scoring a great goal from outside the box that was on a 100 best ever goals video in the SPL though - more than most of us will ever achieve.
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It's much better than it used to be - Dave Conn wrote a few years ago about how a team of Manchester United kids (this might have been pre-Academy days) were playing against another club in training. Normal no-one would be watching these matches but at this one there were a couple of dozen very keen spectators. It gradually dawned on the lads that they were all being released and the spectators were other clubs' scouts.
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It’s a shit business.
Yup - I imagine having to release 18,19,20 year olds and shatter their dreams is just about the worst job in football.
Some mates of mine played with a bloke about 25 years ago called Peter Curran. He was playing for a west London team called the Polytechnic whilst working down here but had come through the ranks at Aberdeen under Ferguson. Ferguson deLivered the news he was being released and he resented him thereafter.
I thought it was decent of Ferguson to take it on himself to deliver the news to those being released rather than leaving it to the academy staff. He did at least have the pleasure of scoring a great goal from outside the box that was on a 100 best ever goals video in the SPL though - more than most of us will ever achieve.
Polytechnic rings a bell. Are they based in Acton/Ealing?
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Always feel for the released lads. Wish them all the best.
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Last I know this was accurate up to late last year (think it was the day of the 85th year anniversary I read it), but pretty sure the run is still going. Manchester United have had a home grown players in every first team match squad going back to 1937, over 4,000 consecutive games.
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How many do the Greedy6 bring through?
Oddly, Chelsea do very well.
For all this, shows how when a club sells a home grown product even for 4 or 5m, it's a big success for their academy.
No idea of exact dates but you have to go back years, possibly decades, to find a Man U team without a homegrown player.
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How many do the Greedy6 bring through?
Oddly, Chelsea do very well.
For all this, shows how when a club sells a home grown product even for 4 or 5m, it's a big success for their academy.
No idea of exact dates but you have to go back years, possibly decades, to find a Man U team without a homegrown player.
Just a wild guess but i'll go for 1937...
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It’s a shit business.
Yup - I imagine having to release 18,19,20 year olds and shatter their dreams is just about the worst job in football.
Some mates of mine played with a bloke about 25 years ago called Peter Curran. He was playing for a west London team called the Polytechnic whilst working down here but had come through the ranks at Aberdeen under Ferguson. Ferguson deLivered the news he was being released and he resented him thereafter.
I thought it was decent of Ferguson to take it on himself to deliver the news to those being released rather than leaving it to the academy staff. He did at least have the pleasure of scoring a great goal from outside the box that was on a 100 best ever goals video in the SPL though - more than most of us will ever achieve.
Polytechnic rings a bell. Are they based in Acton/Ealing?
In Chiswick, Paddy, not far from the train station. It was a good club with 9 teams plus veterans, as well as hockey and rugby teams. I played there for a couple of seasons when I wasn’t at Villa games.
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Saracens pay for each of their youth players to do a degree. Some sort of safety net should be provided by all clubs.
I’ve long thought that the club should partner with umpteen schools/academies across the midlands, hoovering up the best talent, whilst investing heavily in their education and brain washing them about the Villa brand. I don’t work in education so I have no idea whether this would be viable/legal.
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It’s a shit business.
Yup - I imagine having to release 18,19,20 year olds and shatter their dreams is just about the worst job in football.
Some mates of mine played with a bloke about 25 years ago called Peter Curran. He was playing for a west London team called the Polytechnic whilst working down here but had come through the ranks at Aberdeen under Ferguson. Ferguson deLivered the news he was being released and he resented him thereafter.
I thought it was decent of Ferguson to take it on himself to deliver the news to those being released rather than leaving it to the academy staff. He did at least have the pleasure of scoring a great goal from outside the box that was on a 100 best ever goals video in the SPL though - more than most of us will ever achieve.
Polytechnic rings a bell. Are they based in Acton/Ealing?
In Chiswick, Paddy, not far from the train station. It was a good club with 9 teams plus veterans, as well as hockey and rugby teams. I played there for a couple of seasons when I wasn’t at Villa games.
I played against them many times Pat.
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How many do the Greedy6 bring through?
Oddly, Chelsea do very well.
For all this, shows how when a club sells a home grown product even for 4 or 5m, it's a big success for their academy.
No idea of exact dates but you have to go back years, possibly decades, to find a Man U team without a homegrown player.
Just a wild guess but i'll go for 1937...
From the internet:
“ When Manchester United take on Everton on 15 December, it will be the 4000th senior match in succession in which at least one youth graduate is represented in the Reds’ first-team or matchday squad. This extraordinary record stretches back over nine decades to before the Second World War.”
So yeah, you’re probably about right.
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I know, I said it in the post above yours :P
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I know, I said it in the post above yours :P
🤬
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Saracens pay for each of their youth players to do a degree. Some sort of safety net should be provided by all clubs.
I’ve long thought that the club should partner with umpteen schools/academies across the midlands, hoovering up the best talent, whilst investing heavily in their education and brain washing them about the Villa brand. I don’t work in education so I have no idea whether this would be viable/legal.
I worked at Villa as a kitchen porter for a bit before I went to uni. There was a lad there who had better a level results than me. He'd said he wanted to go to uni, but the financial reality of it was that his family needed the wage he was getting KP'ing too much.
I dunno, it just seems maybe if Villa are really going after making the most out of having an inner city academy, it'd be worth giving the lads (& girls) who were enrolled there a bit of a safety net like Dante's described.
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Saracens pay for each of their youth players to do a degree. Some sort of safety net should be provided by all clubs.
I’ve long thought that the club should partner with umpteen schools/academies across the midlands, hoovering up the best talent, whilst investing heavily in their education and brain washing them about the Villa brand. I don’t work in education so I have no idea whether this would be viable/legal.
I worked at Villa as a kitchen porter for a bit before I went to uni. There was a lad there who had better a level results than me. He'd said he wanted to go to uni, but the financial reality of it was that his family needed the wage he was getting KP'ing too much.
I dunno, it just seems maybe if Villa are really going after making the most out of having an inner city academy, it'd be worth giving the lads (& girls) who were enrolled there a bit of a safety net like Dante's described.
I’m surprised there’s nothing regarding education in place already. I actually thought all academies provided something for the young players. If not then it would be a fantastic thing to do.
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It’s a shit business.
Yup - I imagine having to release 18,19,20 year olds and shatter their dreams is just about the worst job in football.
Some mates of mine played with a bloke about 25 years ago called Peter Curran. He was playing for a west London team called the Polytechnic whilst working down here but had come through the ranks at Aberdeen under Ferguson. Ferguson deLivered the news he was being released and he resented him thereafter.
I thought it was decent of Ferguson to take it on himself to deliver the news to those being released rather than leaving it to the academy staff. He did at least have the pleasure of scoring a great goal from outside the box that was on a 100 best ever goals video in the SPL though - more than most of us will ever achieve.
Polytechnic rings a bell. Are they based in Acton/Ealing?
In Chiswick, Paddy, not far from the train station. It was a good club with 9 teams plus veterans, as well as hockey and rugby teams. I played there for a couple of seasons when I wasn’t at Villa games.
I played against them many times Pat.
Which team did you play for - we may have crossed paths?
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There are swathes of the country where scouts just don't bother to come. My colleagues, most of whom have lads who have played in various football levels, have said they've barely seen scouts at games in Worcestershire, Herefordshire and Gloucestershire. The place I work at, funnily enough, turned out Nathan Baker, but despite that (limited) success, only West Brom have been back to run some informal training sessions.
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It’s a shit business.
Yup - I imagine having to release 18,19,20 year olds and shatter their dreams is just about the worst job in football.
Some mates of mine played with a bloke about 25 years ago called Peter Curran. He was playing for a west London team called the Polytechnic whilst working down here but had come through the ranks at Aberdeen under Ferguson. Ferguson deLivered the news he was being released and he resented him thereafter.
I thought it was decent of Ferguson to take it on himself to deliver the news to those being released rather than leaving it to the academy staff. He did at least have the pleasure of scoring a great goal from outside the box that was on a 100 best ever goals video in the SPL though - more than most of us will ever achieve.
Polytechnic rings a bell. Are they based in Acton/Ealing?
In Chiswick, Paddy, not far from the train station. It was a good club with 9 teams plus veterans, as well as hockey and rugby teams. I played there for a couple of seasons when I wasn’t at Villa games.
Ah, deepest, darkest Chiswick down by the train station. I once woke up in a house near there after a party, on being told I was in Chiswick, I thought 'great. I know Chiswick.' Turned out I only knew the High Road and Turnham Green. I walked across a lot of road bridges before I spotted an E3 bus!
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The problem with the idea of the clubs providing higher education like rugby and cricket clubs is that a huge amount of youngsters are dropped a lot earlier in football with major cut-offs at 15/16 and 18, because of how the academy system is setup.
I do think more needs to be done though. This is where the idea of academisation should be used, have the club setup with it's own 'school', preferably with links to local schools and businesses to give the kids a safety net.
In the 18+ part of the academy I'd then push the kids towards specific football related qualifications like physiotherapy, data analysis, coaching badges, etc. It keeps things football focused but opens options for kids that don't make the step up.
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The brother of Chuckyourtoysoutofthepram I see is at Crawley Town who are 2nd from bottom in League Two and was subbed off at half time last weekend. He'll be gone at the end of the season I reckon.
He's never really showed much, has he?
He's an arsehole who thinks he is above that level. His attitude was questioned at Livingston too... Didn't want to put the work in. The sooner we get rid of the Chuckwemeka entourage, the better. Should never have been brought into the club in the first place.
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Understand #AVFC will not be renewing contracts for Brad Young, Arjan Raikhy, Hayden Lindley & Declan Frith. (Gregg Evans)
I'm surprised about Raikhy, I thought he'd have some sell on value at least.
I have never seen anything in him that suggests he was worth keeping. Young too. Nothing more than a straight line pace merchant...
He looked excellent in the FA Youth cup final, probably our best player but then i saw him at the start of this season against Albion in an U21 game (i think it was) and he looked like he'd gone a long way backwards. (Raikhy)
When I saw him on loan at Stockport I think it was in the National League, he looked completely lost. The FA Youth Cup Final was good from him, but youth football & mens football are worlds apart...
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I was talking to the guy who cuts my hair, he was on Villa's books as youth team player and he was telling me that the pressure on the young lads is immense
He said that at 7 years of age he was given a diet sheet from the club
He mentioned that a friend of his who is at Wolves (currently on loan to a Division 1 side) is on £12,500 per week lives in a £750k house and is only 21 (i don't think he has ever played in the Wolves 1st team) - total madness.
It must be tough for the young lads when you are told that you are no longer wanted
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It’s a shit business.
Yup - I imagine having to release 18,19,20 year olds and shatter their dreams is just about the worst job in football.
Some mates of mine played with a bloke about 25 years ago called Peter Curran. He was playing for a west London team called the Polytechnic whilst working down here but had come through the ranks at Aberdeen under Ferguson. Ferguson deLivered the news he was being released and he resented him thereafter.
I thought it was decent of Ferguson to take it on himself to deliver the news to those being released rather than leaving it to the academy staff. He did at least have the pleasure of scoring a great goal from outside the box that was on a 100 best ever goals video in the SPL though - more than most of us will ever achieve.
Polytechnic rings a bell. Are they based in Acton/Ealing?
In Chiswick, Paddy, not far from the train station. It was a good club with 9 teams plus veterans, as well as hockey and rugby teams. I played there for a couple of seasons when I wasn’t at Villa games.
I played against them many times Pat.
Ha! Me too! I played for a team based at the Civil Service Sports ground just across the road for about five years (I think it's owned by a school now?)
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Saracens pay for each of their youth players to do a degree. Some sort of safety net should be provided by all clubs.
That's not exactly true, it does look like they take academy kids' welfare quite seriously though:
"All senior academy players are expected to undertake some form of career development alongside their rugby in order to best prepare them for the transition into a second career and life after rugby. This can be anything from an undergraduate degree, a trade course or a formal work placement."
I'd argue that it's more important to do so in rugby though, as there are far fewer clubs where lads can earn a living from the game, compared to football.
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The problem with the idea of the clubs providing higher education like rugby and cricket clubs is that a huge amount of youngsters are dropped a lot earlier in football with major cut-offs at 15/16 and 18, because of how the academy system is setup.
I do think more needs to be done though. This is where the idea of academisation should be used, have the club setup with it's own 'school', preferably with links to local schools and businesses to give the kids a safety net.
In the 18+ part of the academy I'd then push the kids towards specific football related qualifications like physiotherapy, data analysis, coaching badges, etc. It keeps things football focused but opens options for kids that don't make the step up.
Now this I can help with...
Education-wise, all schools with kids in the academy building u9-u16 will be contacted a minimum of twice a year (Prem League rule). Most clubs will touch base termly or every halfterm. Clubs record and track progress of the kids and offer support where they can; progress, attendance, behaviour etc. Most clubs offer school release (u12-u16) for a dayor half day a week; schools/parents agree to this and schoolboy progress is monitored. Comp Education sessions are obligatory during those days whereby clubs will pay for teachers to come in a support the indepedent learning. Clubs ask for reports and data to be shared with them.
At Year 10 and 11 (GCSEs) the Prem League track the schoolboys progress verse target grade. The Prem League operate under Ofsted so clubs under their education umbrella could be visited. Each club has a Education Support Manager (usually an ex-Headteacher) who monitors the data and meetings are held to discuss P8, traget grades, intervention etc for each u15/16. If a kid is in bother an offer of support or removing of school release may take place.
The u21 and first year pros are a funny bunch...they can access funding through PFA for certificated courses (up to 50% up to £7500 I think) but 99% choose not to pursue anything. Most think they've 'made it' and all say something like...'I just want to focus on my first year...see me next pre-season'. The Prem League are really pushing for clubs to offer a post-18 pathway.
On the point of the brutality of the system. All schoolboys and parents are made aware of the 0.5% chance or whatever it is chance of being a pro footballer after the age of 25. A number of parents act as if 13 year old Timmy is the next Harry Kane, I've heard comments like 'he's our golden ticket'...the lad is 14.
Another thing is the desperation. Released lads will go anywhere to trial and gain a contract...they are embarrassed at being released. They've spent two to ten years in a club tracksuit being lauded by all and suddenly they a re a civilian again. It gets worse the older they get.
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I should add that at u18 scholar level (VI Form), boys are offered BTECs and A levels, dependant on academic prowess.
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Understand #AVFC will not be renewing contracts for Brad Young, Arjan Raikhy, Hayden Lindley & Declan Frith. (Gregg Evans)
I'm surprised about Raikhy, I thought he'd have some sell on value at least.
I have never seen anything in him that suggests he was worth keeping. Young too. Nothing more than a straight line pace merchant...
They'll get contracts with lower level teams where they can try and live up to their potential on a smaller stage. If they were never going to have a chance of making it they'd have gone long before now. This way they can be snapped up for free.
Always thought Young and Raikhy looked pretty good, and should be picked up by a decent league one/two team.
You can usually tell when a youth player is going to make it.
I remember watching a few youth games involving Grealish and Gary Gardener, they were streets ahead of the rest.
We know about JG, but I think GG would have been brilliant had it not been for the two bad injuries
Rooney is another example, albeit not one of ours, you just knew he would go all the way.
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My wife's nephew was at Blackburn academy, and when that didn't work out, he was picked up by Wigan afterwards. Unfortunately, he's so dim he makes Grealish look like a university professor, and all he was interested in at that age was going out and getting pissed, and having the more than the occasional fight. There's no academic programme in the world that would have helped him, he's just far too stupid.
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How many do the Greedy6 bring through?
Oddly, Chelsea do very well.
For all this, shows how when a club sells a home grown product even for 4 or 5m, it's a big success for their academy.
No idea of exact dates but you have to go back years, possibly decades, to find a Man U team without a homegrown player.
They didn't seem to have one in last nights team?
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Now this I can help with...
Education-wise, all schools with kids in the academy building u9-u16 will be contacted a minimum of twice a year (Prem League rule). Most clubs will touch base termly or every halfterm. Clubs record and track progress of the kids and offer support where they can; progress, attendance, behaviour etc. Most clubs offer school release (u12-u16) for a dayor half day a week; schools/parents agree to this and schoolboy progress is monitored. Comp Education sessions are obligatory during those days whereby clubs will pay for teachers to come in a support the indepedent learning. Clubs ask for reports and data to be shared with them.
At Year 10 and 11 (GCSEs) the Prem League track the schoolboys progress verse target grade. The Prem League operate under Ofsted so clubs under their education umbrella could be visited. Each club has a Education Support Manager (usually an ex-Headteacher) who monitors the data and meetings are held to discuss P8, traget grades, intervention etc for each u15/16. If a kid is in bother an offer of support or removing of school release may take place.
The u21 and first year pros are a funny bunch...they can access funding through PFA for certificated courses (up to 50% up to £7500 I think) but 99% choose not to pursue anything. Most think they've 'made it' and all say something like...'I just want to focus on my first year...see me next pre-season'. The Prem League are really pushing for clubs to offer a post-18 pathway.
On the point of the brutality of the system. All schoolboys and parents are made aware of the 0.5% chance or whatever it is chance of being a pro footballer after the age of 25. A number of parents act as if 13 year old Timmy is the next Harry Kane, I've heard comments like 'he's our golden ticket'...the lad is 14.
Another thing is the desperation. Released lads will go anywhere to trial and gain a contract...they are embarrassed at being released. They've spent two to ten years in a club tracksuit being lauded by all and suddenly they a re a civilian again. It gets worse the older they get.
This all makes sense and, as I tried to cover but failed the bold bit highlights where the real 'problem' is. I'm not sure how you solve that but it's definitely a problem that needs to be addressed, as is the 'golden ticket' idea. One of the biggest problems with the money in football is this.
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Understand #AVFC will not be renewing contracts for Brad Young, Arjan Raikhy, Hayden Lindley & Declan Frith. (Gregg Evans)
I'm surprised about Raikhy, I thought he'd have some sell on value at least.
I have never seen anything in him that suggests he was worth keeping. Young too. Nothing more than a straight line pace merchant...
They'll get contracts with lower level teams where they can try and live up to their potential on a smaller stage. If they were never going to have a chance of making it they'd have gone long before now. This way they can be snapped up for free.
Always thought Young and Raikhy looked pretty good, and should be picked up by a decent league one/two team.
You can usually tell when a youth player is going to make it.
I remember watching a few youth games involving Grealish and Gary Gardener, they were streets ahead of the rest.
We know about JG, but I think GG would have been brilliant had it not been for the two bad injuries
Rooney is another example, albeit not one of ours, you just knew he would go all the way.
They are usually the ones who have a bit of physicality to them at a younger age. Rooney was a bit of a physical beast at 16. I remember watching Gardner score a perfect hat-trick in a youth cup game at Villa Park one year. He was unplayable. Its a real shame the injuries ruined him & he ended up at Small Heath...
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Understand #AVFC will not be renewing contracts for Brad Young, Arjan Raikhy, Hayden Lindley & Declan Frith. (Gregg Evans)
I'm surprised about Raikhy, I thought he'd have some sell on value at least.
I have never seen anything in him that suggests he was worth keeping. Young too. Nothing more than a straight line pace merchant...
They'll get contracts with lower level teams where they can try and live up to their potential on a smaller stage. If they were never going to have a chance of making it they'd have gone long before now. This way they can be snapped up for free.
Always thought Young and Raikhy looked pretty good, and should be picked up by a decent league one/two team.
You can usually tell when a youth player is going to make it.
I remember watching a few youth games involving Grealish and Gary Gardener, they were streets ahead of the rest.
We know about JG, but I think GG would have been brilliant had it not been for the two bad injuries
Rooney is another example, albeit not one of ours, you just knew he would go all the way.
Rooney's a bit of an outlier, he was a once in a generation talent. That FA Youth Cup final was effectively a team versus one player.
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Rotters, that's a great insight. Thank you for sharing with us.
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No problem JD, I'm happy to try an answer any other academy based questions.
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No idea of exact dates but you have to go back years, possibly decades, to find a Man U team without a homegrown player.
They didn't seem to have one in last nights team?
It's matchday squad. Iqbal 19, and been there since 2012 and was on the bench.
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My wife's nephew was at Blackburn academy, and when that didn't work out, he was picked up by Wigan afterwards. Unfortunately, he's so dim he makes Grealish look like a university professor, and all he was interested in at that age was going out and getting pissed, and having the more than the occasional fight. There's no academic programme in the world that would have helped him, he's just far too stupid.
A university friend of mine, who was a very good footballer, had trials for England schoolboys.
In his group was Paul Ince.
He said he thought he was a decent player, and had always been the best player in any team he'd played in at every age until then, but remembers seeing Ince and realising how much better the top players are, and how incredibly difficult it would be to forge a career - if you had talent, that was just the start of it, it would also require an immense amount of application and work.
Also, they need massive mental fortitude, to be able to handle knocks and set backs. I always have respect for players who start off at top flight clubs as kids, but then find themselves booted down to league 2 and having to prove themselves all over again, before finally making it.
I guess that's the thing about top quality footballers - huge amounts of self belief, and they need to have it when they're teenagers / in their 20s, so at a young age.
I'm in my 50s with a lifetime of experience, and managed to go largely to pieces at a career set back last year. No idea how these kids manage it.
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One thing in life nobody teaches you is mental toughness, or to put it another way, self-belief. There's also no set way to achieve it. I've been writing over a decade now, and all it took was a bit of vague criticism a couple of years ago to destroy my faith in my own ability. I can only assume the pros that make it learn to not look back at either any triumph or any disaster.
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I'm in my 50s with a lifetime of experience, and managed to go largely to pieces at a career set back last year. No idea how these kids manage it.
Two things. A lot of them have the supreme confidence that a lot of fairly daft people seem to have. Secondly, even a couple of years on £20K a week is going to give you a nice safety net for the leaner times.
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I'm in my 50s with a lifetime of experience, and managed to go largely to pieces at a career set back last year. No idea how these kids manage it.
Two things. A lot of them have the supreme confidence that a lot of fairly daft people seem to have. Secondly, even a couple of years on £20K a week is going to give you a nice safety net for the leaner times.
That first is depressingly accurate and even more depressingly common.
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A friend of a friend of my wife's has a teenage son currently at Hearts. We, along with a few other PL clubs, are making eyes at him. He was in Brum last week for a lunch with Emery, apparently. I don't know his name though, and Leeds are the favourites to get him.
Not much of a story that, now I read it back!
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He had lunch with Unai and will reject him? What a prick.
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A friend of a friend of my wife's has a teenage son currently at Hearts. We, along with a few other PL clubs, are making eyes at him. He was in Brum last week for a lunch with Emery, apparently. I don't know his name though, and Leeds are the favourites to get him.
Not much of a story that, now I read it back!
James Wilson?
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/james-wilson-set-snub-hearts-29604729
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Sounds about right (although I've never known or heard his name).
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It’s a shit business.
Yup - I imagine having to release 18,19,20 year olds and shatter their dreams is just about the worst job in football.
Some mates of mine played with a bloke about 25 years ago called Peter Curran. He was playing for a west London team called the Polytechnic whilst working down here but had come through the ranks at Aberdeen under Ferguson. Ferguson deLivered the news he was being released and he resented him thereafter.
I thought it was decent of Ferguson to take it on himself to deliver the news to those being released rather than leaving it to the academy staff. He did at least have the pleasure of scoring a great goal from outside the box that was on a 100 best ever goals video in the SPL though - more than most of us will ever achieve.
Polytechnic rings a bell. Are they based in Acton/Ealing?
In Chiswick, Paddy, not far from the train station. It was a good club with 9 teams plus veterans, as well as hockey and rugby teams. I played there for a couple of seasons when I wasn’t at Villa games.
I played against them many times Pat.
Ha! Me too! I played for a team based at the Civil Service Sports ground just across the road for about five years (I think it's owned by a school now?)
The Civil Service just along from Dukes Meadows was a decent ground and often used for finals. I’ve watched a couple there but sadly never played myself