Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: cdbearsfan on April 21, 2021, 10:13:40 PM
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That was pretty wank.
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Meh.
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I would be bored senseless if I was a city fan.
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Did we have a shot 2nd half?
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The first 30 seconds were ace.
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We've lost our way. Lost our mojo. Lost our captain. We've lost the bloody plot. Topped of with some mental decision making from Matty Cash.
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on the beach , going through the motions and other cliches. oh and not good enough
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Only chance we had went with Cash sending off. Barkley needs to be sent back to one of the Big 6
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I would bored senseless if I was a city fan.
Imagine being a Villa fan
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First few minutes were good, the rest utter garbage (again).
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I would bored senseless if I was a city fan.
Imagine being a Villa fan
It's great being a Villa fan.
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Dire against 10. Cash is a good player, but he needs to cut out the rash decisions.
I love Douglas but he has been really poor of late.
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The season is really fizzling out.
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I would bored senseless if I was a city fan.
Yep, I couldn’t watch that every week, even if they are top of the league. I suppose against some of the better teams it might be a bit of a contest, but against 60% of the teams they play it must be the same relentlessly patient gradually pulling teams out of shape bollocks.
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I thought we had a decent chance of getting something out of the game at the start of the second half, then Cash got sent off.
City are a bloody good team to be honest and Foden was a threat all night.
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Sadly you can't play like that and expect to get anything against these *******. I really hope Cash learns from today.
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leeds beat this lot with 10 men because they compete. i hate leeds but they always compete, we certainly didn’t
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Since boxing day, we have played the most pedestrian football possible. Unfortunately its turgid, slow, route 1 stuff week after week. We are boring again, no spark, no imagination, no pace, no zip, no movement.
Its night and day from the first half of the season.
After 2 tricky results for them they needed a nice respectful team to play. They couldn't of handpicked their opponents any better.
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Any chance of us cancelling our remaining games. Except for the Crystal Palace one as that’s the one I’m really pinning my hopes on for a draw or maybe even a win. Remind me, that’s when we score more goals than the other team? Been so long, I’ve forgotten.
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I think our performance on Boxing Day was the last stand out one.
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All I see when I look up Cash's stats is a whole bunch of yellow cards for mostly stupid challenges and not a lot else.
I'm going to pray everyday that City take Luiz off our hands in a few months time for £30m. He is fucking shit.
We can buy Yves Bissouma with that and still have a little change left.
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Shite.
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Who?
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I thought we had a decent chance of getting something out of the game at the start of the second half, then Cash got sent off.
City are a bloody good team to be honest and Foden was a threat all night.
It's true that they're a great team but listening to Redknap and Bent eulogising about them just pisses me off. They're bankrolled by a fucking country. I think most teams would be half decent when someone buys you a billion quids worth of players.
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No surprise. Nice of the TV companies to completely forget about the last 24 hours, for their manager to act appallingly without censure and for our manager to still have faith in Barkley.
A night best forgotten.
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We can’t keep saying we’ve had a good season.
We had a fantastic first half of it, but for months it’s been average or garbage.
We need quality signings who start in the first XI for next season, and the quality will determine whether our better players stay put.
I know City are worlds apart, but so many below par performances meant we had no chance.
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The trouble is it felt like the Villa players were eulogising over them, during the game.
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They were awesome. They very rarely make mistakes. Thank-you Stones for fucking u and making a game of it, but the gulf in class was huge. We actually did well to keep that to 1-2.
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Legion, £30 may be nearer the mark for Luiz. Can’t believe he’s anywhere near the Brazil national team.
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leeds beat this lot with 10 men because they compete. i hate leeds but they always compete, we certainly didn’t
Leeds under Bielsa are much more likely to kick on next season than we are under Smith. I hope I am wrong but I am really disappointed with the way things have fizzled out.
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Legion, £30 may be nearer the mark for Luiz. Can’t believe he’s anywhere near the Brazil national team.
He needs to get his previous hairstyle restored.
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Any chance of us cancelling our remaining games. Except for the Crystal Palace one as that’s the one I’m really pinning my hopes on for a draw or maybe even a win. Remind me, that’s when we score more goals than the other team? Been so long, I’ve forgotten.
Our last home game against Fulham? Mind you, we were muck in that til the Tazmanian/Egyptian Devil, Trezeguet, came on for a 20 minute whirlwind.
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Get real, there wasn't a city player on the pitch that wouldn't walk into the Villa side, we have no player that would get into their side. If we buy right in the summer things may be different next season.
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Wasn't expecting anything different but if we are going to realise our ambitions of competing for European places any time soon then we cannot continue with midfielders who cannot retain possession and wingers who are peripheral week after week.
Dean and the coaches have got to reassess this because we are going backwards. Tactics, formation, personnel. All needs to be looked at.
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leeds beat this lot with 10 men because they compete. i hate leeds but they always compete, we certainly didn’t
Leeds under Bielsa are much more likely to kick on next season than we are under Smith. I hope I am wrong but I am really disappointed with the way things have fizzled out.
Similar to Sheffield United?
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A night best forgotten.
Near on 4 months best forgotten.
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They were awesome. They very rarely make mistakes. Thank-you Stones for fucking u and making a game of it, but the gulf in class was huge. We actually did well to keep that to 1-2.
A billion quid will do that for you.
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Didn't really get near them. Felt Nakamba was poor against Liverpool and no better today. Didn't press well and didn't keep the ball well.
The later is a problem that's been quite consistent of late, just retaining and moving the ball on hasn't been right.
Two poor goals to give away, Nakamba switches off and Martinez gets nowhere near the ball.
Felt we did well defensively by and large though to deny them too many opportunities, although they always look a menace. The first 20 odd minutes I've not seen a side move the ball so quick.
Foden looks a proper scally, but he is just fantastic. He gave Cash so many problems, caused Konsa problems (no mean feat) and we had no real answer as he slipped the lines.
Cash sending off was so stupid and really put a spanner in the works second half. Front two starved of possession and service.
We didn't lay a glove on them really.
I hate this game, the only game I hate more is the one at their place.
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Get real, there wasn't a city player on the pitch that wouldn't walk into the Villa side, we have no player that would get into their side. If we buy right in the summer things may be different next season.
Grealish would.
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leeds beat this lot with 10 men because they compete. i hate leeds but they always compete, we certainly didn’t
Leeds under Bielsa are much more likely to kick on next season than we are under Smith. I hope I am wrong but I am really disappointed with the way things have fizzled out.
What Bielsa has achieved with the players he has is ridiculous
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leeds beat this lot with 10 men because they compete. i hate leeds but they always compete, we certainly didn’t
Leeds under Bielsa are much more likely to kick on next season than we are under Smith. I hope I am wrong but I am really disappointed with the way things have fizzled out.
That’s a good comparison. I agree with you
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Get real, there wasn't a city player on the pitch that wouldn't walk into the Villa side, we have no player that would get into their side. If we buy right in the summer things may be different next season.
I don’t think the complaints are about tonight. It’s pretty much every game since NYD that the performances have been dire. We look clueless.
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leeds beat this lot with 10 men because they compete. i hate leeds but they always compete, we certainly didn’t
Leeds under Bielsa are much more likely to kick on next season than we are under Smith. I hope I am wrong but I am really disappointed with the way things have fizzled out.
That’s a good comparison. I agree with you
Me too. Wouldn't be surprised to see Spuds sniffing around him to replace Mourinho.
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They're about two points ahead of us having scarcely had a player miss five minutes all season. We have a player better than any in the league that don't play for Man City and he's missed months. Even talking into account that our form was already in decline, we would be at least ten points clear of Leeds if Grealish had stayed fit.
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Get real, there wasn't a city player on the pitch that wouldn't walk into the Villa side, we have no player that would get into their side. If we buy right in the summer things may be different next season.
Neither would any of Leeds' team yet they beat them last week with 10 men (on the counter attack, and with a bit of luck, admittedly). But I've always thought the "Which of our players would the big clubs want?" question reductive. It's a team game where clubs finesse the best system of playing. Harnessed correctly, it becomes greater than the sum of its parts. That's the job of every manager and to do it consistently. Dean is still struggling with the latter part.
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Since taking over in 2016 Guardiola has spent £832m on 36 players.
That might help explain the gulf between the 2 sides.
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Not embarrassing to lose to the quality they have by only one goal.
We have a good defence.
We are not a million miles away being competitive at the top table.
Need a few upgrades in the middle and the wing.
And of course Jack back.
I’m positive. Dean actually brought Davis on.
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on the beach ........
Since January though.
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I thought we had a decent chance of getting something out of the game at the start of the second half, then Cash got sent off.
City are a bloody good team to be honest and Foden was a threat all night.
That's the way I saw it. 11 v 11 and 10 v 10, we were thoroughly outclassed. I didn't see any lack of effort just a lack of quality. Their keeper is better on the ball than any of our midfielders. We had a chance 11 v 10 until Cash intervened. A reminder if one was needed that we urgently need quality added in the summer
Martinez 6 - some great saves but made a poor decision for second goal
Cash 3 - killed any chance of us getting back in the game. Has been rubbish for weeks and destroyed all game by Foden
Konsa 8 - very good as per usual
Mings 9 - I'm not a big fan but fair play to him tonight, outstanding
Targett 5 - tough enough night, expected more from him with the ball
Nakamba 3 - didn't track Foden for first goal and simply miles out of his depth for the second game in a row
Luiz 5 - terrible first half but improved after break. Not helped by a poor midfield set up
McGinn 7 - excellent goal but naturally faded after break. Breathing out his ass last 15 mins, fitness has to improve
Traore 3 - standard performance as of late, useless
Watkins 5 - great assist but a struggle afterwards
Ramsey 4 - the easy call to take him off over a couple of others but struggled it's fair to say..habit of turning his back defending a shot needs changing
Davis 4 - not his fault really but didn't get a kick. Barks 4 - kept ball ok but this experiment should have ended weeks ago
AEG 5 - game was over as a contest by his introduction
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leeds beat this lot with 10 men because they compete. i hate leeds but they always compete, we certainly didn’t
Leeds under Bielsa are much more likely to kick on next season than we are under Smith. I hope I am wrong but I am really disappointed with the way things have fizzled out.
That’s a good comparison. I agree with you
Ha! I'm sure even Dean would piss himself laughing being compared to Bielsa. Bielsa is on another planet and has been for decades.
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It’s not today’s performance that will impact on Smiths position it’s months of aimless football and crap decision making.
Bielsa is on a different planet in footballing terms.
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With £351m wage bill.
He's spent £400m on defenders, including a quarter of a billion on full backs.
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All I see when I look up Cash's stats is a whole bunch of yellow cards for mostly stupid challenges and not a lot else.
I'm going to pray everyday that City take Luiz off our hands in a few months time for £30m. He is fucking shit.
We can buy Yves Bissouma with that and still have a little change left.
I love that your quoting yourself!! Nothing like confidence in your own opinion when slating players.
Could of been anything first half, stones sending off gave us a chance and Smith taking a gamble with the early sub. But cash losing his head put an end to all that. They just passed us to death after that, all very dull in second half.
Difficult to judge individual performances against the best team in the league, with sendings off thrown in, but I thought as a positive Mings and Konsa were very good tonight, otherwise hmmm.
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I think we were happy to take the 2-1 in the last 30 minutes. We work nowhere near hard enough to close down. City are a great team but it’s just been a theme for the last 4 months - pedestrian in possession and can’t put more than 3 passes together unless they’re in our own half, and no energy without it.
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not sure we learnt anything new tonight.
There is a chasm between us in individual skills, and their coaching, the ability to keep possession, run into space and play the ball.
But they did not appear overnight, a truly great local product in Foden playing alongside some of the best players in the world. And coached by one of the most innovative, inspiring managers.
We have the great local product, a good back 4 a honest local manager and a good developing talent in Watkins, to move on (or even stand still) we need some good midfield /attacking alternatives in the summer.
But that is not news to anyone on here and I hope not at VP either
Can we just let Barkley go home now, he is stealing a place on the bench from a youngster
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With £351m wage bill.
He's spent £400m on defenders, including a quarter of a billion on full backs.
Like a souped-up Martin O'Neill replacing our backline from one season to the next!
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What’s happened to Nakamba?
He looks like he has put on a couple of stone and lost all his zip and nippiness.
Our midfield needs a serious upgrade for next season, starting with Bissouma from Brighton.
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leeds beat this lot with 10 men because they compete. i hate leeds but they always compete, we certainly didn’t
Leeds under Bielsa are much more likely to kick on next season than we are under Smith. I hope I am wrong but I am really disappointed with the way things have fizzled out.
That’s a good comparison. I agree with you
Ha! I'm sure even Dean would piss himself laughing being compared to Bielsa. Bielsa is on another planet and has been for decades.
Bielsa’s track record is a bit of a myth. It’s not great. But he has done a great job at Leeds. No way did they look like there were on the beach on Monday night against Liverpool
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They're about two points ahead of us having scarcely had a player miss five minutes all season. We have a player better than any in the league that don't play for Man City and he's missed months. Even talking into account that our form was already in decline, we would be at least ten points clear of Leeds if Grealish had stayed fit.
Our decline started with Jack in the team. Our problem is we only know how to play one way and that's with wingers, oh and we don't have a winger.
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Cack
If I were a Tesco carrier bag, I'd be confident of taking all the points on Sunday.
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Regarding the Cash sending off, yes, it was stupid by him but what annoyed me more was that we had a few opportunities to get crosses in down the left prior to going back with the ball as we did most of the night and then out to Cash. Our midfield is not going to take us further up the league next season. All of them are poor passers and lack awareness. We need much better.
I can’t help but feel our lot seemed content with only losing 2-1. We need to cut that mentality out.
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https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/12283277/stones-sees-red-but-city-fight-back
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I'm watching the post mortem on Sky. All they've done is talk City for the last 30 minutes! Talk about fucking bias!
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I'm watching the post mortem on Sky. All they've done is talk City for the last 30 minutes! Talk about fucking bias!
Shock!!
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Each to their own but I'd rather watch a Mrs Brown's Boys special with an all-U2 soundtrack than spend half an hour watching people talking about a match we've lost.
Though, I suppose I'm doing the same thing here, to be fair.
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Cash sent off again? Didn’t watch.
Good player, but we need decent back up for him for his suspensions.
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leeds beat this lot with 10 men because they compete. i hate leeds but they always compete, we certainly didn’t
Leeds under Bielsa are much more likely to kick on next season than we are under Smith. I hope I am wrong but I am really disappointed with the way things have fizzled out.
Bielsa as a coach (and maybe it's an unfair comparison with Smith anyway given the gulf in experience) has a defined way of playing. Clear strategy and a coherent approach. We have Jack Grealish. We don't have a plan b or c. It's been that way for a number of years. Until he comes back we will continue to play Burnley style football.
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The season is petering out, and although I expected us to lose, the performance reflected that theme. Better than last season, but still a big disappointment after the first half of the season.
We don't have the same level of players as they do, but it shouldn't stop us from being more energetic or passing the ball wastefully even when not under pressure.
Given our really poor record of performances against 10 men, I'm dubious that we would have got something from the game once they went down to 10. However Cash's mad few minutes ensured that we wouldn't. Foden was running rings round him, but the second yellow was just completely senseless.
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I'm watching the post mortem on Sky. All they've done is talk City for the last 30 minutes! Talk about fucking bias!
Talking about one of football pariahs. Never forget. Obviously sky do.
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What an utterly stupid challenge from Cash for the red card. Unbelievable.
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I'm watching the post mortem on Sky. All they've done is talk City for the last 30 minutes! Talk about fucking bias!
Not much to say about us other than we looked awful and devoid of ideas, and for the first time tonight, application. Why bother with that when you can eulogise about Foden
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I'm watching the post mortem on Sky. All they've done is talk City for the last 30 minutes! Talk about fucking bias!
Shock!!
Yeah, I don't disagree, but that's the way they've been for years.
The number of times we've been level at half time against Man City/Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea (whoever) and they've gone to an ad break with a comment like "can Utd/City/Liverpool/Chelsea finish the job? Join us for the second half..."
Erm, what job? The job of playing against another team, who could still feasibly win?
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City obviously have better players but that is not the whole reason.
You watch their movement off the ball to play the passes.
Every team could learn from this.
Liverpool last year won the league because they played a high tempo, pressing at every tackle and their forward line just jelled and their defence was solid. It hadn’t happened for them this year.
So City took up the baton again.
Foden is a great player.
Wouldn’t swap him though for Jack for all the tea in China.
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It’s really sad that what was a superb start to the season is ending like this. We should have finished comfortably in the top half and that is now very much in doubt. It’s more than just Jack missing. We just seem a little lost as a team and coaching staff. And it’s not about today. It’s about the sides not called Man City that we have failed to beat in recent months. We’ve not looked like winning any of them really.
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leeds beat this lot with 10 men because they compete. i hate leeds but they always compete, we certainly didn’t
Leeds under Bielsa are much more likely to kick on next season than we are under Smith. I hope I am wrong but I am really disappointed with the way things have fizzled out.
Bielsa as a coach (and maybe it's an unfair comparison with Smith anyway given the gulf in experience) has a defined way of playing. Clear strategy and a coherent approach. We have Jack Grealish. We don't have a plan b or c. It's been that way for a number of years. Until he comes back we will continue to play Burnley style football.
Burnley took 4 points off us!
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What an utterly stupid challenge from Cash for the red card. Unbelievable.
He always dives in. when he gets the ball it looks good, but when he doesn’t....
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I think the one thing that stands out compared to say Leeds who I think are at our level is our total inability to even compete and show desire. Its been that way for weeks. Any gulf In class in the opposition doesn't stop you doing that,and in my opinion that's a serious problem that stems from the manager. I cannot see our owners keep providing 70 to 100 million each year without European football being forthcoming. I fear for Dean if we don't qualify next season
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Great first 20 seconds, then it rapidly went downhill after that. Only good news was we weren't hammered, thanks again to Konsa and Mings and apart from their 2nd goal Martinez.
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It’s really sad that what was a superb start to the season is ending like this. We should have finished comfortably in the top half and that is now very much in doubt. It’s more than just Jack missing. We just seem a little lost as a team and coaching staff. And it’s not about today. It’s about the sides not called Man City that we have failed to beat in recent months. We’ve not looked like winning any of them really.
It's a real Villa trait in last 20 years for seasons to just fizzle out from promising positions after 20-25 games. The infamous collapse under MON and a couple of seasons under Gregory when we lost form completely from Feb onwards.
Be interesting what we do next January if we have another strong first 3-4 months start.
As much as covid is being blamed on the other page we need to remember most of our 11 have played the most minutes in their positions in probably the whole league as likes of McGinn and Watkins never get subbed if they're on the pitch so that's going to have an impact in final few months as other teams are simply fresher with rotation.
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The season up to January was good. Jan onwards has been relegation form.
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I have been one our harshest critics on here for many years but losing to City by one goal when they are trying to seal the title is no great shame.
One goal.
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I have been one our harshest critics on here for many years but losing to City by one goal when they are trying to seal the title is no great shame.
One goal.
It's not the one goal loss to City by itself though, it's the 16 points from the last 16 games, which is exactly the same return West Brom have got in that time.
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Wasn't expecting anything different but if we are going to realise our ambitions of competing for European places any time soon then we cannot continue with midfielders who cannot retain possession and wingers who are peripheral week after week.
Dean and the coaches have got to reassess this because we are going backwards. Tactics, formation, personnel. All needs to be looked at.
Bang on mate
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The way City pass and keep the ball is the benchmark to aspire for, quite remarkable at times.
As for us, we’ll not get many better chances to get something from them but the senseless red card ended that hope. We look flat and as much as we all hoped it wouldn’t, season is fizzling out. Shame.
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I have been one our harshest critics on here for many years but losing to City by one goal when they are trying to seal the title is no great shame.
One goal.
It's not the one goal loss to City by itself though, it's the 16 points from the last 16 games, which is exactly the same return West Brom have got in that time.
If we're keeping pace with Fat, Crooked Sam we must be doing something right!
I would like to see us buck our ideas up, but our remaining fixtures look tricky, to say the least. I still trust that we'll recruit well in the summer, but if we don't get to 55 points it'll have been a disappointing second half to the season for me.
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I don't think the one goal defeat really tells the story. We were outclassed, and gave the performance of a team that just wanted to avoid being humiliated. Lesser teams than us have put up a far greater fight against them than we did this evening. I don't think any of us expected a win, but would have hoped their goalkeeper might see the ball without using binoculars at some point in the last 89 minutes.
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55? Not sure we'll get to 45! ;)
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55? Not sure we'll get to 45! ;)
🥱
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55? Not sure we'll get to 45! ;)
See, you're being too positive again 😉
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55? Not sure we'll get to 45! ;)
🥱
He's joking.
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I'm watching the post mortem on Sky. All they've done is talk City for the last 30 minutes! Talk about fucking bias!
Talking about one of football pariahs. Never forget. Obviously sky do.
Agree, Sky carry on as normal. All forgotten already. Hope they get docked 10 points! But I doubt it.
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They should but they won't.
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I don't think the one goal defeat really tells the story. We were outclassed, and gave the performance of a team that just wanted to avoid being humiliated. Lesser teams than us have put up a far greater fight against them than we did this evening. I don't think any of us expected a win, but would have hoped their goalkeeper might see the ball without using binoculars at some point in the last 89 minutes.
Absolutely. We just look so slow and lethargic, particularly in midfield. We looked like we might make a game of it when we had the man advantage, but that went out the window with Cash's moment of madness and it reverted to an elongated Man City keep ball session.
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I don't think the one goal defeat really tells the story. We were outclassed, and gave the performance of a team that just wanted to avoid being humiliated. Lesser teams than us have put up a far greater fight against them than we did this evening. I don't think any of us expected a win, but would have hoped their goalkeeper might see the ball without using binoculars at some point in the last 89 minutes.
Yep that’s it. It’s also a common occurrence in performances since early January. We look like a team going through the motions, there’s no zip, creativity or energy. It started before Jack’s injury.
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Not sure what the shock is.
We've gained 4 points all season from losing positions.
From a team that's been top half for vast majority of season that's a very poor statistic imo and we've had Grealish on the pitch for many of those games aswell.
Generally in last two months we've been competitive in games when we're level but generally have no idea or belief to get anything once we go behind. Fulham was honourable exception but Spurs was more a case. O.k at 0-0 and barely do anything in attack until it got to 0-2 and we had some shots in last 10 minutes.
We've probably have had a spell of pressure 11 v 10 at some stage in second half but again the team just mentally accepted defeat as soon as it got back to 10 v 10.
If we ever want to be a top 6 team again in near future it's a skill we're going to have to learn sooner or later. The teams under MON were always good for getting draws and wins in games we were losing so that squad had the ability, this one simply dosen't.
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Lost 2 1 to a team who stroked it around and where seldom tackled only shadowed,they’ve got great ability to retain possession but we helped them a lot. I got impression we never thought we could win this game, which is a shame for us fans and team morale.
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leeds beat this lot with 10 men because they compete. i hate leeds but they always compete, we certainly didn’t
Leeds under Bielsa are much more likely to kick on next season than we are under Smith. I hope I am wrong but I am really disappointed with the way things have fizzled out.
Bielsa as a coach (and maybe it's an unfair comparison with Smith anyway given the gulf in experience) has a defined way of playing. Clear strategy and a coherent approach. We have Jack Grealish. We don't have a plan b or c. It's been that way for a number of years. Until he comes back we will continue to play Burnley style football.
We had Jack Grealish when Dean Smith's Brentford used to make us look like mugs every time they played us. In the rain. With no roof above the fans. Yes, he's not Bielsa, but then again, nobody else is either. Dean Smith doesn't have the players - particularly when the best of them are out injured, suspended or just plain fucking stupid - to finish much higher than we are right now.
A bit like Bielsa's Leeds.
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On Foden, I've never been really convinced. I clearly hadn't been watching closely enough. He looks like a staggering player.
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On Foden, I've never been really convinced. I clearly hadn't been watching closely enough. He looks like a staggering player.
He is getting better with every game.
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I thought we did okay for large parts of the game, however what disappointed me was the amount of times in the 2nd half their goal keeper had the ball and we just let him pass it to a defender on the edge of his box and we did not pressure them, into a mistake or the keeper being forced to kick the ball up the pitch
If Southgate does not have Foden in his starting 11 for the Euros he must need his eyes / brain looking at - the guy is fantastic
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I thought we defended reasonably well but we didn't seem to have enough belief or quality to grab an equaliser. We always seemed concerned with what they were going to do, which in a way was understandble because they were great at times in that first half.
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We are nowhere near good enough with the ball
It looked like a proper men against boys
I’m not particularly bothered about losing to Man City they are a class side
I was more interested in what sort of football we could play against them
The answer is not a lot
If we think we are a couple of players away from top six we need to think again
We are kidding ourselves if we think we have a decent side when there’s not a player on the pitch with the confidence to retain and pass the ball
considering We are supposed to be playing with no relegation or European hopes pressure now It was a pretty pathetic and spineless show
And you can make excuses about how good the opposition are all you want but the way we give the ball away relentlessly like rabbits in headlights is a complete joke
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That was a shambles of a display. Embarrassing just how poor our possession play was. Also out of possession we were just very very lucky. Man city didn’t even need to get out of bed to beat us..
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We are nowhere near good enough with the ball
It looked like a proper men against boys
I’m not particularly bothered about losing to Man City they are a class side
I was more interested in what sort of football we could play against them
The answer is not a lot
If we think we are a couple of players away from top six we need to think again
We are kidding ourselves if we think we have a decent side when there’s not a player on the pitch with the confidence to retain and pass the ball
considering We are supposed to be playing with no relegation or European hopes pressure now It was a pretty pathetic and spineless show
And you can make excuses about how good the opposition are all you want but the way we give the ball away relentlessly like rabbits in headlights is a complete joke
Agreed and this isn’t just a one off last night. It’s been going on throughout 2021
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On Foden, I've never been really convinced. I clearly hadn't been watching closely enough. He looks like a staggering player.
He is getting better with every game.
Got to say him and Bellingham look brilliant talents. Hopefully he'll play a big part in England's future along with Jack.
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The midfield is the issue, with us - we lack an enforcer with physical presence to hold it together and dictate the play, and our passing is far from good enough. Teams are finding it too easy to cut through us and even when we get it back, too many passes are wasted and we’re back under pressure. I’d like to see two real quality midfielders come in this summer.
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I didn't watch the match, so can't comment on performance. Obviously disappointed by the result and in Cash who by all accounts was rash and brought the sending off on himself.
A numerical advantage against a scab team has to be used. Cash getting sent off shows a weakness in his game and ultimately let the Villa team and fans down.
Still at least Cash has ensured he won't be lining up against the bitters on Sunday.
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The midfield is the issue, with us - we lack an enforcer with physical presence to hold it together and dictate the play, and our passing is far from good enough. Teams are finding it too easy to cut through us and even when we get it back, too many passes are wasted and we’re back under pressure. I’d like to see two real quality midfielders come in this summer.
This has been a clear theme since January.
We give the ball away with frightening ease - McGinn was particularly guilty last night (not for the first time). And, we lack drive through the middle of the park. However, we are still a work-in-progress and I reminded myself last night that Citeh have spend £1.2bn on players: we have spent about a fifth of that.
We need a really good summer of considered player-acquisition.
Question: is the team's apparent lethargy a result of Smith's management style? And, has this group of players accepted that we are a one-man team?
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The midfield is the issue, with us - we lack an enforcer with physical presence to hold it together and dictate the play, and our passing is far from good enough. Teams are finding it too easy to cut through us and even when we get it back, too many passes are wasted and we’re back under pressure. I’d like to see two real quality midfielders come in this summer.
Enforce all you like but If you give the ball straight back to the opposition there’s no point
We need better footballers not bigger Physical ones
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The midfield is the issue, with us - we lack an enforcer with physical presence to hold it together and dictate the play, and our passing is far from good enough. Teams are finding it too easy to cut through us and even when we get it back, too many passes are wasted and we’re back under pressure. I’d like to see two real quality midfielders come in this summer.
Enforce all you like but If you give the ball straight back to the opposition there’s no point
We need better footballers not bigger Physical ones
Totally agree, amazes me how people can watch us get bossed by a Guardiola team and conclude that the issue is which midfield would win at arm wrestling. A lot of the time, what people perceive as 'strength' or 'presence' is actually quick reactions and sure-footed technique.
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Man City are an excellent side and Foden is a fantastic player, but I still felt with 11 against 10 we could nick something. Cash being sent off changed all that and we were not able to get hold of the ball at all and when we did Barkley in particular gave it straight back them.
Our midfield and wide players are just not good enough at this level and we need to spend big in the summer if we want to get to the next level.
A 1-2 score line is no disgrace but in reality we were extremely poor apart from the first 22 seconds.
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I agree with the above - we need brains not brawn - a player who doesn’t panic when in possession, looks up and creates space for themselves and others. We have that in Jack but without him nobody else is capable of it. We need 2 central midfielders (upgrades), at least one winger and a striker in the summer.
Another thing - City playing the percentage game for 90+ minutes is dull and boring despite the talent they have, not sure I’d be able to watch that every week!
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The midfield is the issue, with us - we lack an enforcer with physical presence to hold it together and dictate the play, and our passing is far from good enough. Teams are finding it too easy to cut through us and even when we get it back, too many passes are wasted and we’re back under pressure. I’d like to see two real quality midfielders come in this summer.
Enforce all you like but If you give the ball straight back to the opposition there’s no point
We need better footballers not bigger Physical ones
Totally agree, amazes me how people can watch us get bossed by a Guardiola team and conclude that the issue is which midfield would win at arm wrestling. A lot of the time, what people perceive as 'strength' or 'presence' is actually quick reactions and sure-footed technique.
john e and Monty spot on!
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I agree with the above - we need brains not brawn - a player who doesn’t panic when in possession, looks up and creates space for themselves and others. We have that in Jack but without him nobody else is capable of it. We need 2 central midfielders (upgrades), at least one winger and a striker in the summer.
Another thing - City playing the percentage game for 90+ minutes is dull and boring despite the talent they have, not sure I’d be able to watch that every week!
They're a much better footballing team than we are. I'd much rather watch passing and movement than Nakamba shinning ball after ball to opposition midfielders.
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If we ever want to be a top 6 team again in near future it's a skill we're going to have to learn sooner or later. The teams under MON were always good for getting draws and wins in games we were losing so that squad had the ability, this one simply dosen't.
A couple of months ago, when things looked better than they currently do, I posted that we get beat too often under Dean and the response was that draws are no good and our approach results in more wins. I was a bit taken aback at the time as there aren't many teams who turn their noses up at a point from a tough game or where you've been behind.
Before and after relegation we saw how hard it is to shift a losing habit and the damage it did to us. It took us a full season in the championship to break the losing mentality built up over 4 or 5 years.
Dean's next task is to make us harder to beat- turn 3 or 4 losses into draws and we'd still be sitting 9th rather than 11th behind newly promoted Leeds and a bad Arsenal team.
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I agree with the above - we need brains not brawn - a player who doesn’t panic when in possession, looks up and creates space for themselves and others. We have that in Jack but without him nobody else is capable of it. We need 2 central midfielders (upgrades), at least one winger and a striker in the summer.
Another thing - City playing the percentage game for 90+ minutes is dull and boring despite the talent they have, not sure I’d be able to watch that every week!
They're a much better footballing team than we are. I'd much rather watch passing and movement than Nakamba shinning ball after ball to opposition midfielders.
Thought City were brilliant last night. They could have gone down to 8 or 9 players and still beaten us at their ease. Konsa and Mings saved us from an absolute hiding.
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That's the first time we've dropped points from a winning position at Villa Park this season.
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Yeah, it's a bit harsh to call-out our inability to come from behind to win points. We often score the first goal ourselves so there's less opportunities to make a comeback.
Burnley, Liverpool and Citeh are the three games we've lost from a winning position but I think that's one of the best records in terms of keeping leads. The Burnley one was a bit of a fluke and Liverpool needed a last minute "worldy" after we had had the best of the second half against them.
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I agree with the above - we need brains not brawn - a player who doesn’t panic when in possession, looks up and creates space for themselves and others. We have that in Jack but without him nobody else is capable of it. We need 2 central midfielders (upgrades), at least one winger and a striker in the summer.
Another thing - City playing the percentage game for 90+ minutes is dull and boring despite the talent they have, not sure I’d be able to watch that every week!
They're a much better footballing team than we are. I'd much rather watch passing and movement than Nakamba shinning ball after ball to opposition midfielders.
Thought City were brilliant last night. They could have gone down to 8 or 9 players and still beaten us at their ease. Konsa and Mings saved us from an absolute hiding.
I disagree with a lot of comments on here that City were brilliant last night.
They were okay and mainly because we just let them do what they want.Personally I don't like the Football Man City play because its dull to watch and the tempo is very slow but that's just a personal opinion, It works its just not my thing.
I'm not overly obsessed with giving the ball away either its just the areas you give the ball away and then what you do to get it back. Any team will out pass us if we let them and there seems no desire from anyone in midfield chopping on the bit to harass the opposition. It cant be difficult to have Nakamba run his socks off closing down with back up from the team and then just give a simple pass to the nearest player.
We need brains and Brawn and at the moment we don't have either.
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City were fantastic last night. They battered us. The passing and movement was incredible.
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I was a bit disappointed with Douglas Luiz's performance last night. I thought he might be really up for it.
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He was dire, one of the worst on the night. It's his job to keep things ticking over, retaining possession and passing the ball, but he couldn't manage even simple 10 yard passes. I'd say on current form there isn't a hope in hell of Man City wanting him back, and it then just remains to be seen whether anybody is prepared to pay a bigger premium than us to be able to buy him from Man City.
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He commits a lot of soft fouls.
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I was a bit disappointed with Douglas Luiz's performance last night. I thought he might be really up for it.
He needs to work out what player he wants to be. If that's a 6 he needs to commit to the dirty work. If it's an 8 he needs to just be better in the opposition's half. If it's a 37 then we should all go home.
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Douglas was so weak on challengers. I like him , hes only young but was so weak in the tackle. Midfield needs a proper overhaul. Not good enough.
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He was dire, one of the worst on the night. It's his job to keep things ticking over, retaining possession and passing the ball, but he couldn't manage even simple 10 yard passes. I'd say on current form there isn't a hope in hell of Man City wanting him back, and it then just remains to be seen whether anybody is prepared to pay a bigger premium than us to be able to buy him from Man City.
That is not correct, he was constantly making himself available to get the ball, and yes lost the ball a few times, like the whole team, but did mange to get space from a very good pressing Man City - McGinn wasn't good, Nakamba was never available to receive the ball - so you obviously didn't watch the same game as I did.
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They're better than us. Surprise, surprise. They've spent the GDP of a small country.
Sure, they'll lose games to the likes of Leeds occasionally, but they are going to win the league by miles, so they have obviously turned over far better teams than them this season. We're just one of many. Their business model is based on spending so much money that they effectively remove any element of risk.
Which is why part of me wishes they actually would fuck off and play in a different competition. Because that might as well already be the case.
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Another predictablegroundhog day against City. TBH our form since that Covid outbreak has been relegation-like ; big summer ahead forthe owners.
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When they had the ball there was always two or three waiting to receive when we had it there was zero leading to us constantly turning the ball over.
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When they had the ball there was always two or three waiting to receive when we had it there was zero leading to us constantly turning the ball over.
We turned the ball over because our passing was generally shit. Yes, due in part to poor movement and team-mates not offering themselves; but mainly because people tried passes that were not simple or just badly executed.
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He was dire, one of the worst on the night. It's his job to keep things ticking over, retaining possession and passing the ball, but he couldn't manage even simple 10 yard passes. I'd say on current form there isn't a hope in hell of Man City wanting him back, and it then just remains to be seen whether anybody is prepared to pay a bigger premium than us to be able to buy him from Man City.
He's our player?
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He was dire, one of the worst on the night. It's his job to keep things ticking over, retaining possession and passing the ball, but he couldn't manage even simple 10 yard passes. I'd say on current form there isn't a hope in hell of Man City wanting him back, and it then just remains to be seen whether anybody is prepared to pay a bigger premium than us to be able to buy him from Man City.
He's our player?
At the moment he is. But Man City can buy him back for £30m or whatever the figure is. Therefore if somebody decides they want him for say, £50m, then Man City exercise their buy back right, and sell him for £50m, and pocket the difference.
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When they had the ball there was always two or three waiting to receive when we had it there was zero leading to us constantly turning the ball over.
We turned the ball over because our passing was generally shit. Yes, due in part to poor movement and team-mates not offering themselves; but mainly because people tried passes that were not simple or just badly executed.
And excellent pressing from Man City (they played really well)
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He was dire, one of the worst on the night. It's his job to keep things ticking over, retaining possession and passing the ball, but he couldn't manage even simple 10 yard passes. I'd say on current form there isn't a hope in hell of Man City wanting him back, and it then just remains to be seen whether anybody is prepared to pay a bigger premium than us to be able to buy him from Man City.
He's our player?
At the moment he is. But Man City can buy him back for £30m or whatever the figure is. Therefore if somebody decides they want him for say, £50m, then Man City exercise their buy back right, and sell him for £50m, and pocket the difference.
I would say based on his performances this is no longer a concern.
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Douglas Luiz has had a massive drop off in form since the Covid break, weak in the tackle, his pass rangefinder is to cock and he isn't as athletic as he was earlier in the season (fatigue?). Compare him to Rodri playing a similar role and its like night and day. That said he was ok last night as it was Nakamba who looked utterly out of his depth and the others were continually having to fill gaps he was leaving or recover when he pressed at the wrong time. We seemed to try a very compact and central midfield block last night which left massive gaps outwide leaving our full backs massively exposed and continually facing 2 on 1 overloads.
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He was dire, one of the worst on the night. It's his job to keep things ticking over, retaining possession and passing the ball, but he couldn't manage even simple 10 yard passes. I'd say on current form there isn't a hope in hell of Man City wanting him back, and it then just remains to be seen whether anybody is prepared to pay a bigger premium than us to be able to buy him from Man City.
He's our player?
At the moment he is. But Man City can buy him back for £30m or whatever the figure is. Therefore if somebody decides they want him for say, £50m, then Man City exercise their buy back right, and sell him for £50m, and pocket the difference.
It's not going to happen.
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Douglas Luiz has had a massive drop off in form since the Covid break, weak in the tackle, his pass rangefinder is to cock and he isn't as athletic as he was earlier in the season (fatigue?). Compare him to Rodri playing a similar role and its like night and day. That said he was ok last night as it was Nakamba who looked utterly out of his depth and the others were continually having to fill gaps he was leaving or recover when he pressed at the wrong time. We seemed to try a very compact and central midfield block last night which left massive gaps outwide leaving our full backs massively exposed and continually facing 2 on 1 overloads.
Has Nakamba put on a bit of weight or beefed up? He looked very ponderous last night. The sight of him ambling while Foden zipped to the dead ball line in the second half was embarrassing.
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He was dire, one of the worst on the night. It's his job to keep things ticking over, retaining possession and passing the ball, but he couldn't manage even simple 10 yard passes. I'd say on current form there isn't a hope in hell of Man City wanting him back, and it then just remains to be seen whether anybody is prepared to pay a bigger premium than us to be able to buy him from Man City.
He's our player?
At the moment he is. But Man City can buy him back for £30m or whatever the figure is. Therefore if somebody decides they want him for say, £50m, then Man City exercise their buy back right, and sell him for £50m, and pocket the difference.
It's not going to happen.
I expect not, but it is a possibility.
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leeds beat this lot with 10 men because they compete. i hate leeds but they always compete, we certainly didn’t
Leeds under Bielsa are much more likely to kick on next season than we are under Smith. I hope I am wrong but I am really disappointed with the way things have fizzled out.
Bielsa as a coach (and maybe it's an unfair comparison with Smith anyway given the gulf in experience) has a defined way of playing. Clear strategy and a coherent approach. We have Jack Grealish. We don't have a plan b or c. It's been that way for a number of years. Until he comes back we will continue to play Burnley style football.
We had Jack Grealish when Dean Smith's Brentford used to make us look like mugs every time they played us. In the rain. With no roof above the fans. Yes, he's not Bielsa, but then again, nobody else is either. Dean Smith doesn't have the players - particularly when the best of them are out injured, suspended or just plain fucking stupid - to finish much higher than we are right now.
A bit like Bielsa's Leeds.
Absolutely 100% this. They’ve reached their limit but surely that was their purpose in our rebuild??
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More chance of Man City buying me than Luiz. He's doesn't have the attributes to play deep, for me. Passing range is very average, no real speed, no physical presence and seems to disappear a lot. Not a great engine, not a good tackler.
What is it he does again?
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Men v Boys outclassed in almost all positions on the night and how good is Folan.
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He was dire, one of the worst on the night. It's his job to keep things ticking over, retaining possession and passing the ball, but he couldn't manage even simple 10 yard passes. I'd say on current form there isn't a hope in hell of Man City wanting him back, and it then just remains to be seen whether anybody is prepared to pay a bigger premium than us to be able to buy him from Man City.
He's our player?
At the moment he is. But Man City can buy him back for £30m or whatever the figure is. Therefore if somebody decides they want him for say, £50m, then Man City exercise their buy back right, and sell him for £50m, and pocket the difference.
Technically they can't do that, at least not straight away, as you can't make two transfers in a season without special dispensation. Though there are ways around it, like a loan to buy for instance.
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More chance of Man City buying me than Luiz. He's doesn't have the attributes to play deep, for me. Passing range is very average, no real speed, no physical presence and seems to disappear a lot. Not a great engine, not a good tackler.
What is it he does again?
It’s odd as earlier in the season and the tail of last - he was awesome. What happened?
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Technically they can't do that, at least not straight away, as you can't make two transfers in a season without special dispensation. Though there are ways around it, like a loan to buy for instance.
Are you sure? FIFA rules say player can be registered for a maximum of three clubs in a season but play for two. The Luiz situation would comfortably fit within that set of rules.
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The comparison between how the two managers reacted to the red cards was interesting, albeit only based on what I could see from the TV footage.
Guardiola put his head in his hands when Stones caught Ramsey, then ranted and raved outside of his technical area when the card was given. I don’t think Smith reacted at all.
Guardiola then charged down the touch line when Cash caught Foden, whilst Smith just conferred with his coaching team.
I also don’t understand why the pundits on MOTD were suggesting that the Stones red card was harsh. Of the two challenges, it was this one that had endangered the opponent. Cash was stupid, but players don’t get injured from that type of challenge. Whereas Ramsey could have had ligament damage.
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Pep made himself look an absolute weapons grade tit after Stones walked.
Exactly the same as the Leeds red at the weekend, only Ramsey had his foot off the ground so Stones was even more reckless.
The Cash sending off was so obvious and dumb, why would you remonstrate.
Stones is consistently our biggest threat when we play them. Utter shite.
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Not embarrassing to lose to the quality they have by only one goal.
We have a good defence.
We are not a million miles away being competitive at the top table.
Need a few upgrades in the middle and the wing.
And of course Jack back.
I’m positive. Dean actually brought Davis on.
Not having a go at this post or poster, I agree with most of this.
But I honestly don't get the Davis thing. I like him as one of our own, but he barely touched the ball let alone changed the game.
None of our substitutions made us better, in fact the opposite, and that's not Dean's fault, our lack of depth is a massive problem. Keinan and AEG aren't good enough but this year we don't have anyone else (Louie Barry anyone?) . Hoping that next year we have some viable options to compete for positions so that the bench looks a threat.
This year we've improved the first XI. We need to improve the squad as a whole this summer, so that our big hope off the bench isn't a guy whose main attribute is heart and who doesn't, honestly, ever look like he has a goal in him.
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Disappointed but given where we were last season who here wouldn’t snap your hand off for mid table obscurity?
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I agree it is good to be mid table, compared to last season’s struggles but with the strange results that most teams have had this season we could have finished the season in the top 6
Next season I don’t think the owners will be happy with a mid table finish
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Technically they can't do that, at least not straight away, as you can't make two transfers in a season without special dispensation. Though there are ways around it, like a loan to buy for instance.
Are you sure? FIFA rules say player can be registered for a maximum of three clubs in a season but play for two. The Luiz situation would comfortably fit within that set of rules.
Oh okay, was probably talking shite then.
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Leeds rely very heavily on their wingers to spring a lot of their attacks, but in Harrison and Raphinha they have players who carry a consistent threat and are constantly looking to take on the full-backs they're up against. Trez, El Ghazi and Traore aren't able to beat their man (and often don't try) and if our full-backs don't overlap (or can't get up the pitch quick enough to support) then we look so blunt in attack. So many times in recent games I've seen Martinez claim the ball, look for someone to start a quick counter, and then not bother. None of the wide players - Jack aside - show for the ball in those situations (or I guess it's not part of the tactics).
With Jack fit and playing and a winger of high quality on the other side Villa offer much more attacking threat. Then we need a proper defensive midfielder who can also distribute the ball, a PROPER number 10 (not zombie Ross Barkley or tries-hard-bless-him John McGinn) such as Buendia, or Pereira from West Brom and then Dougie and McGinn can fight it out for the 8 position.
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Leeds rely very heavily on their wingers to spring a lot of their attacks, but in Harrison and Raphinha they have players who carry a consistent threat and are constantly looking to take on the full-backs they're up against. Trez, El Ghazi and Traore aren't able to beat their man (and often don't try) and if our full-backs don't overlap (or can't get up the pitch quick enough to support) then we look so blunt in attack. So many times in recent games I've seen Martinez claim the ball, look for someone to start a quick counter, and then not bother. None of the wide players - Jack aside - show for the ball in those situations (or I guess it's not part of the tactics).
With Jack fit and playing and a winger of high quality on the other side Villa offer much more attacking threat. Then we need a proper defensive midfielder who can also distribute the ball, a PROPER number 10 (not zombie Ross Barkley or tries-hard-bless-him John McGinn) such as Buendia, or Pereira from West Brom and then Dougie and McGinn can fight it out for the 8 position.
Great post. I said something the other day about how Martinez doesn't launch quick attacks any more, we just don't have anybody showing for the ball, so he resorts to long punts up field, which we mostly don't retain possession from.
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Buendia or Pereira wouldn't be good enough to break the top 6/8.
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Buendia or Pereira wouldn't be good enough to break the top 6/8.
Not on their own, no. As part of a strategy of upgrading 3-4 players, perhaps.
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Buendia or Pereira wouldn't be good enough to break the top 6/8.
Possibly not, but I think they fit our transfer model (both relatively young at 24, potential for higher resale value if we develop them further) and if they are playing with the likes of Grealish and Watkins their key numbers would shoot up as well, I think. Pereira has got 8 goals and 5 assists in his first season in the Premier League in a team that's struggled for most of it. Like I say, if he were playing with a higher calibre of player, there's every chance he could do even better.
I just don't see us signing a 40-50 million attacking midfielder yet - although I'd be happily proved wrong! - so I reckon players in the 15-30 mil bracket are what we are looking at.
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The comparison between how the two managers reacted to the red cards was interesting, albeit only based on what I could see from the TV footage.
Guardiola put his head in his hands when Stones caught Ramsey, then ranted and raved outside of his technical area when the card was given. I don’t think Smith reacted at all.
Guardiola then charged down the touch line when Cash caught Foden, whilst Smith just conferred with his coaching team.
I also don’t understand why the pundits on MOTD were suggesting that the Stones red card was harsh. Of the two challenges, it was this one that had endangered the opponent. Cash was stupid, but players don’t get injured from that type of challenge. Whereas Ramsey could have had ligament damage.
If Mings had taken out Foden in the same way Stones took out Ramsey I'm sure Guardiola would have a change of heart.
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Strange title for the thread, though I suppose when you are taking on one of the best teams on the planet, with more or less their best 11 out, and playing with an injury-hit side yourself, restricting them to three shots on target strikes me as quite an achievement. See last season for the comparison.
Hope Deano gives Cash a bollocking and three quarters for the sending-off, as that effectively cost us the game.