Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Hookeysmith on March 21, 2021, 09:35:14 PM
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Trez- awful at almost everything he does
Mcginn- lacks pace, guile and makes so many poor decisions - not good enough
Barclay- clearly been told we are not buying hence the 25% effort
Luiz - folk on here were raving about him but i never saw it then and see it less now
El Ghazi- unless he scores he is anonymous
Traore - bit like AEG unless contibutes with goals can also be a liability - but would persevere
Davis - all to be said has been said. We would be more threatening brining on wardrobe
We simply need better than these
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Very harsh on McGinn , yes he needs more quality around him , but you can’t fault his work rate and ability to pick a pass.
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I actually saw a lot in Davis tonight. I’ve been his biggest critic but I think your statement is harsh.
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McGinn? Seriously?
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El Trezore - woeful
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McGinn? Seriously?
1 goal in 50 odd games now.
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Davis = to even talk about him as an asset speaks volumes.
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Can we have a thread like this next time we win a game just for balance ? I know it's gonna happen someday as Morrissey and then Bowie once said. To bring it back to the Villa, there's a few buggers on here who saw them both live at the NEC after another fine Villa performance from the 95/96 vintage*
*Well, the day before. A 1-0 win at The Dell, Super Tommy Johnson. A better Trezeguet.
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This is more of players we should move on. Heaton, Kalinic,Elmo,Taylor,Trez,Troare, Davis and Barkley. I don’t think getting rid of Luiz is a good idea I think we need to play him in games where we can and Nakamba in others. Playing a team like spurs with runners for me was very much a Nakamba game.
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I think Kalinic has already departed.
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Permanent?
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Can we have a thread like this next time we win a game just for balance?
"Players that are just too good for us"?
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This is more of players we should move on. Heaton, Kalinic,Elmo,Taylor,Trez,Troare, Davis and Barkley. I don’t think getting rid of Luiz is a good idea I think we need to play him in games where we can and Nakamba in others. Playing a team like spurs with runners for me was very much a Nakamba game.
Can he take a free kick like Conor?
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Including McGinn and Luis in this list is just daft.
El Ghazi and Traore are typical wingers - they'll have just as many bad games as good.
The other 3 aren't good enough.
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The winger problem is obvious. Luiz and McGinn have proven their quality before.
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Sanson ?
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Including McGinn and Luis in this list is just daft.
El Ghazi and Traore are typical wingers - they'll have just as many bad games as good.
The other 3 aren't good enough.
El Ghazi has way, way more bad games than good. McGinn either just isn't good enough, or he's out of form (for a long time) through being played out of position. We needed players like McGinn and Luiz to step up with Jack being out, but both have been crap.
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Given that we know our wingers are inconsistent as we saw last year, not strengthening our options was a mistake.
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Given that we know our wingers are inconsistent as we saw last year, not strengthening our options was a mistake.
Traore.
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We were saying earlier on in the season that these players were good and we were heading for the top eight!! I think it’s a range of issues and we are easier to play against in the second half of the season. There is lots more work to be done, we need players who can shift into a different gear and to be able to play more flexibly and dare I say a manager who has the ability to be able to change the game with substitutions and quick, proactive decision-making.
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Traore is a show pony who has a few tricks but consistently underperforms. He’s also an absolute liability around his own penalty area. Trezeguet shouldn’t be playing in this league.
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Sanson ?
Really wouldn’t surprise me if he left. Possibly a loan to buy deal somewhere.
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Give over.
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We've had nearly three years of El Ghazi, and two of Trez, and I think that's all the evidence we need that neither are good enough. Our recent record in buying wide players has been awful.
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Davis never has been and never will be.
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I rate El Ghazi, goals this season a bonus.
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McGinn? Seriously?
1 goal in 50 odd games now.
That's what happens when you play him out of position as a defensive midfielder.
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Sanson ?
Obviously needs time, but to be brutally honest, first impressions have not been great unfortunately. Will hopefully improve as he adjusts to the league.
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McGinn was our most hard working player tonight, he shouldn’t be on this list. Luiz hasnt turned up since Xmas, but has been our outstanding performer in some periods of last season and earlier this season and again shouldn’t be on this list.
If you’d run this list this time last year, my guess is Targett and Konsa would of been on it.
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Cash, has been shocking since his return.
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McGinn was our most hard working player tonight, he shouldn’t be on this list. Luiz hasnt turned up since Xmas, but has been our outstanding performer in some periods of last season and earlier this season and again shouldn’t be on this list.
If you’d run this list this time last year, my guess is Targett and Konsa would of been on it.
Yep.
Do think going forward McGinn's place will be vulnerable but don't see it for next season.
We know our issues, just have to go big or scout very well on a productive winger and get in another top class forward to help out Jack.
As frustrating as this season is turning out to be, we were playing some good stuff not so long ago and we know the defence can generally be relied upon now so the starting points are there but we need way more match winning quality in final third than we have.
Didn't like Trez starting at all and he played exactly like he's played for most of last two months. He helped keep us up and played alright start of the season so we've got decent use out of him but one of those we need to move on in the summer to create more space for a top level right sided player from somewhere.
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We need a top, top quality winger, centre forward and a creative midfielder. All 3 need to be of the highest quality we can possibly get for a club in our position, maybe even better if Purslow can do the right sales pitch.
Bin off Taylor, Trez, AEG, Davis, Hourihane and Elmo. Might bring in $35 million. Bring back Guillbert from loan and promote more squad time to some of our youth players that we hear raps about.
I'm comfortable keeping the rest.
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If we randomly signed Giroud and Riyad Mahrez this summer we'd be top 6 no problem, perhaps even top 4 if our backline posts similar stats next season.
When I think of the type of proven winners in this league in positions we're a little short those names spring to mind and not impossible both will be available in the summer.
Just don't think we're anywhere near that level yet to attract those types until we actually start doing it whenever.
Even then Everton have multiple CL winning manager in charge and signed lots of top level players over last two years and they still probably won't even finish top 6 so even then it's not certain.
We need to at least attempt to try getting in at least one high standard attacking player while Jack remains here though otherwise it's yet another in long line of what ifs from last 20 years.
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The entire midfield.
There's no way any of them should be automatic starters next season. McGinn, brilliant in the championship, has he done it in the Premier League? Not consistently for me. Luiz is invisible. Traore hugely more miss than hit. Trezeguet a hardworking, thick, donkey. El Ghazi shoots a lot but runs very hot and cold.
Sell Trezeguet, improve on the other 4 and try to have them as squad players rather than starters if we are to move to top 6-8.
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AEG
Sanson
Barkley
Taylor
Elmo
Traore
Trez
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I really think Sanson needs time to adjust to a new league before making any sort of call. He's come into a team that's not clicking totally cold. A bit like Luiz last year he'll be a lot better next season for the run out this year and seeing where he needs to improve, get stronger, fitter etc.
I also think Traore will be the one to keep out of him, AEG and Trez.
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Here we go again, a player playing a start for a handful of times is written off. Do we not ever learn?
Sanson is a good player let’s let hims settle in first.
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For me - we need to look at the subs, just not good enough
At the end of this season every position in the team needs to be looked to see who we can bring in that is better than we currently have, and we have to get rid of quite a few
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McGinn was our most hard working player tonight, he shouldn’t be on this list. Luiz hasnt turned up since Xmas, but has been our outstanding performer in some periods of last season and earlier this season and again shouldn’t be on this list.
If you’d run this list this time last year, my guess is Targett and Konsa would of been on it.
Targett certainly would have been. I think most of us were on the fence with Konsa.
Sanson hasn't had the greatest of starts but seeing his name on this thread is a bit mad.
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Bowery isn't good enough for us.
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Neither is Bacuna.
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Christ, this is embarrassing.
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No way would Konsa have been on the list. He started last year as understudy to Mings and Engels, but then after the covid restart was probably our best player, as he has been this season.
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Regarding Sanson, it's early days and we definatley shouldnt be writing him off (although the usual impatient among us no doubt will and already have) but I'm trying to work out what type of midfider he is. Is he defensive, attacking? He seems to be a mix of both.
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AEG, Trez, Engles, Davis , Elmo, Taylor, Connor should be certainties to go either because they are out of contract or not good enough or a mix of both.
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Regarding Sanson, it's early days and we definatley shouldnt be writing him off (although the usual impatient among us no doubt will and already have) but I'm trying to work out what type of midfider he is. Is he defensive, attacking? He seems to be a mix of both.
I hope to God I'm wrong, and I'm not one to write players off without a chance, but there's a part of me that just feels he's going to one of those players that looks tidy enough without actually offering anything.
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Trez - all fart and no shit. Sell
Traore - plays well when can be arsed which is pretty much never but stuck with for a while as no one will want so will have to be in the squad
Hause - definitely keep as was very impressive when he was in team at Xmas. Distribution crap but best header in the squad
Sansom - far too early to make any sort of judgement
McGinn - plays well if allowed to play to his strengths, has a good football brain. Keep
El ghazi - if we get another winger, sell
Barkley - back to Chelsea you pop
Davis - sell, nowhere near Prem standard
Elmo - thanks and ta ta
Taylor - thanks and ta ta
Luiz - reckon he had his head turned in Jan and mind still not right. Shown how good he is so keep.
Lot of work required in summer, esp if Jack departs. Need to target 60 points next season with the money already spent and no doubt will be spent.
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Regarding Sanson, it's early days and we definatley shouldnt be writing him off (although the usual impatient among us no doubt will and already have) but I'm trying to work out what type of midfider he is. Is he defensive, attacking? He seems to be a mix of both.
I hope to God I'm wrong, and I'm not one to write players off without a chance, but there's a part of me that just feels he's going to one of those players that looks tidy enough without actually offering anything.
Like Clampy says, it's not immediately apparent what sort of player he is, so it's hard to judge him. The midfield three just isn't working though, whichever combination is picked.
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None of the midfield 3 are particularly good at anything. None are quick or strong or have a great shot or great timing hitting the box. McGinn has a decent pass on him and decent energy levels. Luiz I struggle to see the excitement with him to be honest. Sanson it's too early to judge, he'll be better after a pre season.
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Trez - all fart and no shit. Sell
Traore - plays well when can be arsed which is pretty much never but stuck with for a while as no one will want so will have to be in the squad
Hause - definitely keep as was very impressive when he was in team at Xmas. Distribution crap but best header in the squad
Sansom - far too early to make any sort of judgement
McGinn - plays well if allowed to play to his strengths, has a good football brain. Keep
El ghazi - if we get another winger, sell
Barkley - back to Chelsea you pop
Davis - sell, nowhere near Prem standard
Elmo - thanks and ta ta
Taylor - thanks and ta ta
Luiz - reckon he had his head turned in Jan and mind still not right. Shown how good he is so keep.
Lot of work required in summer, esp if Jack departs. Need to target 60 points next season with the money already spent and no doubt will be spent.
Pretty much agree with that Phil
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None of the midfield 3 are particularly good at anything. None are quick or strong or have a great shot or great timing hitting the box. McGinn has a decent pass on him and decent energy levels. Luiz I struggle to see the excitement with him to be honest. Sanson it's too early to judge, he'll be better after a pre season.
Luiz and McGinn do have great shots on them though, it's just that for whatever reason they're not doing it any more.
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Maybe because they're never anywhere near the opponents area (especially in Luiz's case). I'm really not sold on Luiz being a defensive screen at all.
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Maybe because they're never anywhere near the opponents area (especially in Luiz's case). I'm really not sold on Luiz being a defensive screen at all.
But he was excellent in that role after the restart last season. That form is a distant memory now unfortunately. He was a joke yesterday.
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In general, over the course of 18 months he's been more miss than hit. I don't think he was bought with the intent on being the main defensive midfielder but Nakamba was so weak on the ball and too much of a liability that that's what he's ended up being. I don't think he's suited to it long term.
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Davis = to even talk about him as an asset speaks volumes.
There was a nice piece of play from him near the end of the game where he drove forward in middle of park past a couple of players and got a pass away that makes me think there is something there - he is clearly not an out and out goalscorer at this level
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Davis = to even talk about him as an asset speaks volumes.
There was a nice piece of play from him near the end of the game where he drove forward in middle of park past a couple of players and got a pass away that makes me think there is something there - he is clearly not an out and out goalscorer at this level
He also set up the best chance of the game by winning a physical challenge with a defender.
He is much maligned but if it stops Traore Trez El Ghazi spending more time on the pitch I am all for it.
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AEG, Trez, Engles, Davis , Elmo, Taylor, Connor should be certainties to go either because they are out of contract or not good enough or a mix of both.
Heaton will go too I expect and obviously Barkley.
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Regarding Sanson, it's early days and we definatley shouldnt be writing him off (although the usual impatient among us no doubt will and already have) but I'm trying to work out what type of midfider he is. Is he defensive, attacking? He seems to be a mix of both.
He's an 8 really who chips in with 4-5 goals a season. Surprised me last night we had a three in there and he was highest pressing midfielder in there,, would've thought that would be McGinn's role.
Hard to see long run how midfield works with McGinn and Sanson, will have to be either as it's too samey. McGinn with 1 goal in what 40 league games now is a bit of a sobering stat.
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Regarding Sanson, it's early days and we definatley shouldnt be writing him off (although the usual impatient among us no doubt will and already have) but I'm trying to work out what type of midfider he is. Is he defensive, attacking? He seems to be a mix of both.
He's an 8 really who chips in with 4-5 goals a season. Surprised me last night we had a three in there and he was highest pressing midfielder in there,, would've thought that would be McGinn's role.
Hard to see long run how midfield works with McGinn and Sanson, will have to be either as it's too samey. McGinn with 1 goal in what 40 league games now is a bit of a sobering stat.
1 goal in 48 for McGinn.
1 goal in 54 for Luiz
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Obvious ones ...
Heaton
Engels - is he still here?
Taylor
Elmo
Trezeguet
Decisions to be made ...
Luiz/Nakamba - sell one of them and keep the other as back up depending on who's comes in as new first choice central midfielder
Barkley - back to Chelsea, unless he's a freebie - which is very unlikely
Traore/El Ghazi - can't help but think there's something in El Ghazi, but don't need both
Davis - if we're not going to give him a chance in the next few games then no point in keeping him
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I shall rephrase the heading
The only players i am suggesting to dump are:
Trez - no aspect of the game is he even average at other than running
Barclay - I dont think he will ever be the player we hoped he would be - just really glad we have not spent too much in actually buying him.
Davis - never a CF as long as he has a hole up his arse
The others:
Luiz / McGinn / AEG / Traore have to be bench at best as we need much better quality in first team.
Players like (as a representative)
Deli Ali - mobile, box to box , scores goals - great mates with Jack
Tammy Abraham - think he would be a perfect foil for Ollie / Wes
Bring back Marc Albrighton - top crosser of the ball
Christian Erikson - seemingly unhappy at Inter
would really compliment this team
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Douglas Luiz not good enough? You’re having a laugh.
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Regarding Sanson, it's early days and we definatley shouldnt be writing him off (although the usual impatient among us no doubt will and already have) but I'm trying to work out what type of midfider he is. Is he defensive, attacking? He seems to be a mix of both.
He's an 8 really who chips in with 4-5 goals a season. Surprised me last night we had a three in there and he was highest pressing midfielder in there,, would've thought that would be McGinn's role.
Hard to see long run how midfield works with McGinn and Sanson, will have to be either as it's too samey. McGinn with 1 goal in what 40 league games now is a bit of a sobering stat.
1 goal in 48 for McGinn.
1 goal in 54 for Luiz
Luiz as DM can be execused. He scored a couple early on when we played him further forward.
Wow that's really bad from McGinn. He has uses in a deeper role but maybe I've just got it still in my head him regularly scoring for us in the championship and even when we came up I think he scored 3 in his first 6 prem games.
If we play 3 centrally he really should be that late runner into the box so surprised we didn't do it last night.
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I would play Davis till the end of the season and judge his future then. Watkins coming off the left, and Jack at 10.
Davis will at least help us keep the ball higher up the pitch and add some physicality. Watkins needs help and Jack needs more freedom than being neutralised on the left.
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Marc Albrighton is 32 this year, that would seem a suggestion just based on bringing an old Villa player back for the sake of nostalgia.
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Obvious ones ...
Traore/El Ghazi - can't help but think there's something in El Ghazi, but don't need both
Never judge a book by its cover. El Ghazi may look the part but there it ends. Last night was classic El Ghazi, comes on for the remaining 30+ minutes, in his first minute has a shot into the side netting and thereafter disappears other than giving the ball away. With him in the side it's generally like playing with 10 men.
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I would hope we’re in for a better player than Albrighton this summer. If we’re really serious those days have gone. Might have been good last summer or the one before but not now.
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People writing off Sanson already is bonkers as well.
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Love Marc and always have but sadly he has too many miles on the clock now.
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Regarding Sanson, it's early days and we definatley shouldnt be writing him off (although the usual impatient among us no doubt will and already have) but I'm trying to work out what type of midfider he is. Is he defensive, attacking? He seems to be a mix of both.
I hope to God I'm wrong, and I'm not one to write players off without a chance, but there's a part of me that just feels he's going to one of those players that looks tidy enough without actually offering anything.
Like Clampy says, it's not immediately apparent what sort of player he is, so it's hard to judge him. The midfield three just isn't working though, whichever combination is picked.
The French Gary Gardner as someone said to me. Too early for me.
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It’s probably quicker to list the players that are good enough. But we’ve managed to do ok this season, we just need to be able to rely on more players next season.
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I think folk are being a bit harsh on Dougie ... he's 22, being played in a more defensive role than he's suited to, and in an out-of-form side.
For me, there's 4 players who are really obvious that need to be replaced:
- Elmo (contract up)
- Taylor (contract up)
- Hourihane (out on loan, not likely to get back in the squad)
- Barkley (loan ends, not done enough to justify price tag)
Then 2 more who are borderline in that group:
- Engels (not played for whatever reason)
- Guilbert (out on loan, might be alright as 2nd choice RB next season)
And 3 who aren't in that group, but decisions have to be made about:
- Trez/El Ghazi. We need to replace at least one of them in the summer. My preference would be to keep El Ghazi, but if we get a good offer for him, I'd sell him and keep Trez. Whoever we keep, it's more a stay of execution for 12 months than anything.
- Davis. Either play him, or let him get on with his career.
For me, that's 6 or 7 players out (Elmo, Taylor, Conor, Barkley, Engels, Trez or El Ghazi, maybe Keinan) which is about the biggest lot of changes I'd be happy with for one summer ... any more and the squad will feel too unstable. That leaves us with Trez/El Ghazi, maybe Keinan, Freddy G, Marv & Hause as player to replace in summer 2022. Plus probably Tom Heaton at that stage.
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Christian Ericksen?! On such a high salary that they couldn't give him away.
Albrighton may be 32 but he's still able to put a cross perfectly on a centre-forward's head cf. Iheanacho's second and Leicester's third against ManUre yesterday. Not sure I've ever seen Trezeguet do that.
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Here we go again, a player playing a start for a handful of times is written off. Do we not ever learn?
Sanson is a good player let’s let hims settle in first.
Yes I agree with this. My guess is the Sanson was bought with next season in mind as part of the rebuilding. Any foreign player coming into the PL takes time to get up to speed
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I think for me it's just Trez and El Ghazi that need upgrading. Traoré could still become more consistent, I think, but the other two just haven't got what it takes.
Apart from that, the squad depth just needs beefing up a bit.
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For me this summer the outs need to be:
Trez, El Ghazi, Taylor, Elmo, Davis
However the future of El Ghazi needs to be decided in relation to whether Jack is playing on the left or in the middle moving forwards. If Jacks playing on the left in a 433 then I'm ok with El Ghazi as back up, flaky though he is.
If Dean is insistent on the 433 moving forwards then he needs top quality on the right side to complement Jack with Bert as back up, and another forward to complement Wes/Ollie.
The biggest problem is Midfield. We don't have an out and out strong defensive midfielder (a 6 in modern parlance) as nakamba isn't good enough to be a regular starter. We then have a mish mash of central midfielders in McGinn, Luiz, Sanson, Ramsey who you would say are not "top notch" to be regulars in a top 6 outfit and Barkley as a recognised no10 who isn't even ours.
For next season I'd want to see the squad looking like (xxxx is new signing)
GK - Martinez (Heaton, Steer)
RB - Cash (Guilbert)
LCB - Konsa (Engels)
RCB - Mings (Hause)
LB - Targett (xxxx)
DCM - xxxx (Nakamba)
CM - Luiz, McGinn, Ramsey
ACM - xxxx (Sanson)
LW - Grealish (El Ghazi)
RW - xxxx (Traore)
CF - Wesley, Watkins, xxxx
That's a 25 man squad with up and coming youth prospects to be utilised without being declared in the squad (?).
Key for me in that, absolute top quality >£40m each for DCM, ACM and RW but that will depend on FFP.
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The squad doesnt just need 'beefing up a bit' - it needs investment to buy high quality players in key positions, especially if we going to keep jack.
If we don't then we have 'go again' as somebody once said and rebuild the whole lot.
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None of our midfield (bar Jack obvs) seem to have it in them to beat a man and thereby create the space behind. This, as well as a striker which we also massively need, have to be the priorities in my opinion.
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All these players are better than last seasons "not good enough crop", it's a work in progress, we know we want better to be better !
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McGinn? Seriously?
1 goal in 50 odd games now.
And very few assists in that time as well.
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the number 1 priority is Defensive Midfield because we don't really have one
It would then allow more freedom for Luiz and SJM.
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None of our midfield (bar Jack obvs) seem to have it in them to beat a man and thereby create the space behind. This, as well as a striker which we also massively need, have to be the priorities in my opinion.
I think that's the crux of our problems recently, earlier in the season we had players beating their men (fnarr) all over the pitch, it's how you crack games open in this league.
It's completely ground to a halt now and we look totally predictable.
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Easier to pick players that are up to the job!
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The question is, good enough for what? Almost all of them are well good enough for the division - it's just about whether we think they're good enough for our realistic aims. In this regard, this season, they're somewhat victims of their own successes.
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Is Mcginn untouchable then?
He is not good enough to be a regular in a top 6 prem team so not good enough for us if thats where we want to be.
Take off the SJM , championship glasses and his prem performances have been average at best and usually poor.
Sorry but opinions and all that.
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His best performances were when he was playing further forward, as opposed to playing alongside Luiz. That said, take him out the side for a few games and he'd be missed.
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I'd like to see McGinn in the team with Luiz and Nakamba
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It would be nice to be able to see what Wesley is capable of during the remainder of the season, but even if we could I would hope we still go out and try and buy a top goal scorer.
Also a creative midfielder or winger to ease the burden, or compliment Jack. A really decent defensive midfielder would be great too.
We need real quality and not just squad fillers to progress from a mid table team.
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the number 1 priority is Defensive Midfield because we don't really have one
It would then allow more freedom for Luiz and SJM.
Doug's going through a poor run currently but he was quite end of last season and up to January this season. Surely some of the credit for our excellent defensive record must go to DM aswell and he's played the vast majority of the season there.
Probably does show how quickly we've come we're not debating whether a stick on Brazil regular is good enough for us now!
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the number 1 priority is Defensive Midfield because we don't really have one
It would then allow more freedom for Luiz and SJM.
Doug's going through a poor run currently but he was quite end of last season and up to January this season. Surely some of the credit for our excellent defensive record must go to DM aswell and he's played the vast majority of the season there.
Probably does show how quickly we've come we're not debating whether a stick on Brazil regular is good enough for us now!
He is not a natural in that position though. We are sacrificing him and SJM because we don’t have a DFM.
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We do and he is Marvellous
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Luiz is a good player. And when on form can do a job at defensive midfield.
He’s pretty decent on the ball so moving him forward to impact the game in the attacking areas would be an improvement if we can get a more natural DM in.
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We do and he is Marvellous
He is the nearest we have but Smith is not convinced.
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Because Nakamba can't pass a ball. Get a proper DM in and let McGinn and Luiz play in more progressive positions.
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Because Nakamba can't pass a ball. Get a proper DM in and let McGinn and Luiz play in more progressive positions.
exactly
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Because Nakamba can't pass a ball. Get a proper DM in and let McGinn and Luiz play in more progressive positions.
exactly
Seconded
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We need a Hojberg in that position. I thought he ran the midfield for them on Sunday.
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Christian Erikson - seemingly unhappy at Inter
Not any more. He's become one of the first names on their team sheet and will probably end up winning the league with them. He's also on over £200k a week. There's no chance of him coming here unfortunately.
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We need a Hojberg in that position. I thought he ran the midfield for them on Sunday.
I mentioned it in the match thread midway through the second half - he was brilliant for them. Not glamorous, but did a really solid job of breaking things up and not giving our midfield time to string three passes together. Would love someone like him in the side.
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We need a Hojberg in that position. I thought he ran the midfield for them on Sunday.
he's been doing that for most of the season for them. A very understated and effective player.