Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: kippaxvilla2 on March 21, 2021, 09:32:25 PM
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Garbage for the most part.
I’m sure the owners are dead chuffed with a massive extra six points for another £75m outlay
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Dreadful. Our so called wide players should be done for false advertising.
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Midfield 3 is too easy to play against, and the 2 wingers seem to be miles away from Watkins.
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We managed to get worse as the game went on, if we are going to improve next season we need better players in midfield, the only player that played well tonight was Konsa.
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The one thing that boiled my piss more than anything was the inane long balls up the channels to Ollie. Time after time after time.
Stupid tactics.
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Zero threat going forward combined with giving up stupid goals will only end up one way. Trez looked like a competition winner, again.
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First 14 games - 1.85 ppg - top 6 form
Last 13 games - 1.06 ppg - near relegation form
The slide in form, and inability to reverse it is a huge worry. He needs to start to turn it around else the pressure will start to build for sure
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Garbage for the most part.
I’m sure the owners are dead chuffed with a massive extra six points for another £75m outlay
Er...the season hasn’t finished yet.
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Six consecutive defeats at home to this lot. That is embarrassing.
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We were abject after a reasonable start and apart from the last 10-15 minutes so were Spurs.
We are not going to get relegated and we're not getting into Europe so let's try some of the kids for the rest of the season. Let's try a new system. Let's give some imagination about how we set up.
Trezeguet, Luiz, Traore have shown that they aren't good enough. Let's try something else.
Dean needs to show that he can rethink things. We've got 2 weeks before Fulham.
No excuses for continuing with this turgid, dismal nonsense that we've been serving up.
Some fresh thinking would be a boost in itself.
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Yes this season has been an improvement but the last half a dozen games have been abysmal. Dean picks the same system and same players when its clearly not working. Why not put Davis on at Half time and push Ollie a little wider and do something different? It clearly ain't working and as for Trez why the hell does he keep picking him ? Works hard but zero quality. McGinn has been playing further forward and has contributed nothing in the attacking third, if we want to push into the top 6 then he is a squad player.
If we do not keep a clean sheet at the moment we are not getting anything out of the the game. As for the Penalty, what a joke the ball has actually gone out of play and Kane has made sure he gets the contact and not even a peep from VAR to review it. Dean is a disgrace of a referee.
No complaints about the result and they did not even have to get out of third gear.
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Garbage for the most part.
I’m sure the owners are dead chuffed with a massive extra six points for another £75m outlay
We still have 10 games to go?
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Another frustrating but very predictable watch & outcome when the line ups were announced.
Sorry but we have progressed from last season, but we could have kicked on, we had the opportunity to kick on in the January window, we all knew Olly needed support ...
It never came, Jack got injured.... the rest is history.
Even Villa loving Paul Merson summed it up.... embarrassing to be honest!!
Plus I don’t understand why hasn’t more been made of the penalty award? - the ball was out!!! End off
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Zero threat going forward combined with giving up stupid goals will only end up one way. Trez looked like a competition winner, again.
Doesn’t he just? He runs around a bit giving fouls away and falling over.
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Brace yourselves
posts of ‘short memories’ and ‘ look where we were two years ago‘ incoming
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Spurs were very poor until we handed them two goals. They took the piss out of us thereafter. I thought pre game we were crying out for a change of formation but Deano went with the same 433 with the same predictable results. Another hopeless performance and we really need this international break.
Martinez 4 - poor clearance led to first
Cash 2 - a rating to match his number, at fault for both goals, not the first time he has made an idiotic challenge like Kane mugged him for
Konsa 6 - struggled with Vinicus physicality but one of the few to get a pass
Mings 5 - lots of shouting but not much else.
Targett 8 - our best by a long way
Luiz 3 - disgrace tonight, jumping out of tackles and putting teammates in trouble
McGinn 7 - lost the ball a lot but one of the very few who kept going all night
Trez 3 - not a prem player but any stretch of the imagination
Traore 3 - has ability but that only gets you so far. Too soft physically and mentally and needs a spell on bench
Sanson 4 - pace of the game too much for him again, improved a bit after half time but physically needs a hard pre season in him
Watkins 5 - little or no service but his running around a lot has become very predictable, not a threat at any time
AEG 5 (starts well but flounces after first tackle), Barkley 4 (doesn't run), Davis 5 (made Barkley chance with a nice turn but miles out of his depth)
Smith 3 - terrible run of form that we show no signs of turning around
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Garbage for the most part.
I’m sure the owners are dead chuffed with a massive extra six points for another £75m outlay
We still have 10 games to go?
The owners probably are pleased anyway. How much do you get per year for being in the PL? £150m? And the value of the club will only have gone up. We are progressing.
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It’s not so much the results that bother me as we aren’t losing every week but the performances are. The swagger has gone, the mistakes are creeping back in and the midfield/wingers aren’t impacting on the game which leaves Watkins chasing breadcrumbs. I think we made it very easy for them tonight which is very very disappointing. They looked dangerous even when Sky were trying to convince us we were causing them problems early on. At 1-0 down I honestly thought the game was already gone. Any team would miss Jack but the rest of that midfield are not stepping up and taking games by the scruff of the neck. The wingers are wishy washy and Luiz and McGinn are both off form.
Enough said about Barkley, that ship has sailed.
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Felt we were pretty decent for the most part. Just not the crucial part, the final third.
Delivery so-so, Watkins isolated and just a bit blunt across the line.
The wingers are really out of form, but Trez for me just isn't good enough. I was surprised to see a change of shape, but I've been advocating a diamond and think we'd be no worse off from trying it.
We've not been as fluid post COVID, even with Jack, as we were before. There are a couple of reasons, but a big one is what Neville touched on; the pool of quality isn't there to change things dramatically.
We are certainly reliant on Jack, absolutely. But Tottenham look entirely reliant on Kane.
The difference tonight, was we made two bad mistakes. Martinez clearance and we're out of shape and Kane and Moura link. Then Kane buys a cheap penalty and suddenly Spurs have some confidence and the game is dead.
In a real funk of form now, particularly up top. It seems unlikely that Davis, Trez or the way Barkely has fallen away, are going to be answers. Traore and El Ghazi nowhere near consistent enough.
Luiz has gone off the boil too, but that's the lot of a young player I suspect. A world beater earlier in the season with panic that Man City are swooping, to some very indifferent form now.
I have to say too that I think there's a real dramatic overreaction and a compulsion to catastrophise things on here at times.
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Quite simply we lack quality in midfield and have no depth to the squad. Traore, Trez, McGinn, AEG, even Sanson and Luiz will not be good enough for us to progress. I always thought Sanson and Ramsey were for next season, hopefully Luiz can recover his early form but the rest need replacing. It was so obvious tonight. It’s not that we played badly, just lack quality
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How much of a contrast is this to the first half of the season? I got into a lovely little mindset of sitting down to watch us knowing that we would entertain and expecting us to score. It has taken a couple of months for that to be replaced by the expectation of turgid, disjointed tripe coming forward.
Our final ball is infuriating at the moment. How can top level footballers who spend their working days on the training field fail to beat the first man so often? We are also doing what we did last year and just tossing hopeful crosses in rather than trying to work an opening.
Big work needed over the next 2 weeks. We are heading for a 14th to 15th place finish at this rate. Chuffing irritating.
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https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/12253223/vinicius-and-kane-give-spurs-the-points
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The Newcastle fans are up in arms over Bruce at the moment, but lets be honest - we're no better than them at the moment.
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Davis starts the next match for me. He was the only player who actually looked interested.
If Trezeguet, AEG, Traore and Luiz never played for us again I wouldn't lose any sleep whatsoever.
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Konsa was great.
I thought Mings, Targett and Mcginn had mostly good games. Of the subs AEG and Davis had some positive moments. Otherwise it was poor from everyone, but harsh on Martinez maybe but he’s set himself high standards and his pass led to the first goal.
Of particular concern is the lack of form from any of our wide players and Luiz’s and Barkleys form. All the players we need to step up while jacks been out have stepped back instead.
It’s not making excuses, but we might have had a bit more luck in the later stages if one or two Spurs players had picked up deserved yellow cards for repeated fouling.
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Toothless and quite boring, that. We need two more Watkinses, one to play either side of Watkins.
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Meh. We were majorly undone by Cash in particular definitively not match sharp and Moura did him for the first and then his brainless challenge on Kane for the second. Martinez poor clearance for the first.
Scores on the doors
Martinez - 6 mark off for the clearance for the first goal but other than that ok.
Cash - 4 not match sharp and it showed
Konsa - 7 reasonably solid
Mings - 7 reasonably solid
targett - 7 solid and got forwards well
Luiz - 4 really really poor and chronically out of form, utter lack of physicality and presence
McGinn - 6 its getting better but still not anywhere near what we know he can be
Sanson - 5 - drifted in and out, some nice touches but as he's admitted he's been surprised by the intensity and physicality
Trezeguet - 3 Blues
Traore - 3 rubbish
Watkins - 6 runs around like a dog with two dicks but the service he gets is dreadful
Barkley - 5 meh
El Ghazi - 4 even more meh
Davis - 6.5 actually caused some issues and also gave the ball away numerous times
Smith - 5 he really needs to do something to stop the rot, his insistence on sticking with 433 with inadequate wingers shows a lack of tactical thinking that frustrates like hell. A diamond, 442, 352 anything to just make the other team have to think.
Game was lost in our midfield and wide attackers, there just isn't the quality there to compete despite Spurs back 4 being absolute gash.
Onwards.....
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We were utter shite in their third but it was pretty even in the rest of the pitch. Differences were Kane, one of the best players in the world, and Moura who is of the level you’d hope we’d be looking to recruit in the next phase.
Big disappointment for me was them winning so many 50/50 challenges, they seemed to play for with more motivation than us.
We really needed to score in that first 20 mins when we were well on top, but didn’t get a shot on target.
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Quite simply we lack quality in midfield and have no depth to the squad. Traore, Trez, McGinn, AEG, even Sanson and Luiz will not be good enough for us to progress. I always thought Sanson and Ramsey were for next season, hopefully Luiz can recover his early form but the rest need replacing. It was so obvious tonight. It’s not that we played badly, just lack quality
Agreed, when I saw the line up, I just thought our midfield is very weak, esp the wide players. Needs improvement.
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Spurs were shite, yet somehow we still managed to lose comfortably. Too many players either out of form, overtired or simply not good enough, and Dean needs a plan B .
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This is a Dean Smith team without Grealish, its happened multiple times before. Boring, slow, predictable, lethargic.
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When our plan B is Keinan Davis we are up shit street.
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Felt we were pretty decent for the most part. Just not the crucial part, the final third.
Delivery so-so, Watkins isolated and just a bit blunt across the line.
The wingers are really out of form, but Trez for me just isn't good enough. I was surprised to see a change of shape, but I've been advocating a diamond and think we'd be no worse off from trying it.
We've not been as fluid post COVID, even with Jack, as we were before. There are a couple of reasons, but a big one is what Neville touched on; the pool of quality isn't there to change things dramatically.
We are certainly reliant on Jack, absolutely. But Tottenham look entirely reliant on Kane.
The difference tonight, was we made two bad mistakes. Martinez clearance and we're out of shape and Kane and Moura link. Then Kane buys a cheap penalty and suddenly Spurs have some confidence and the game is dead.
In a real funk of form now, particularly up top. It seems unlikely that Davis, Trez or the way Barkely has fallen away, are going to be answers. Traore and El Ghazi nowhere near consistent enough.
Luiz has gone off the boil too, but that's the lot of a young player I suspect. A world beater earlier in the season with panic that Man City are swooping, to some very indifferent form now.
I have to say too that I think there's a real dramatic overreaction and a compulsion to catastrophise things on here at times.
I agree about the wingers and Luiz and the reliance on Grealish.
I don't agree we were decent though. No shot in the first half when Spurs were finding their feet and we had no fight or spirit once we went two down.
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Not as good as we'd hoped. We'll have a great player back next up.
The difference was that they had more quality around the pitch.
We need more quality in the squad. Another £100m on the front line will help...
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The plan B is Davies, we looked to have made a mistake on not bringing in more attacking options and so it’s proved.
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1 point from losing positions all season. The referee could have blown the full time whistle after 29 minutes.
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The Newcastle fans are up in arms over Bruce at the moment, but lets be honest - we're no better than them at the moment.
No. Sorry to disagree but that is totally wrong. We are vastly better then Newcastle
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I cannot fathom how they finished the fitter and stronger it was them that played 120 minutes on Thursday not us.
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Work to be done in the summer. That was another tepid performance and we’ve no answer. Says everything about our quality to push on.
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Once Martinez gave them the goal it was all over.
What does Samson actually bring to the team, nothing as far as I can see.
Same formation, same like for like and subs same results.
We have won 4 in 25 without Jack which tells you we would be relegated without him.
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The Newcastle fans are up in arms over Bruce at the moment, but lets be honest - we're no better than them at the moment.
No. Sorry to disagree but that is totally wrong. We are vastly better then Newcastle
Without Grealish were not.
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The way I see it is that management and players think they have done the job for this season and, are thinking of somewhere exotic to go for their holibobs. Big chance missed in January in getting another striker in. I agree with others that we do not have the players for 4-3-3 which looks at times to be more of a 4-5-1. We ain’t going to score many playing as we are just now.
I’m grateful we had such a good start to the season as can’t see us getting more than another 6 points with the play/lack of passion we are doing just now. I used to love putting us down for a win, against any opponent but, sadly have gone for losses in the last 6 matches and, the lads have unfortunately proved me right a good majority of the time. The defeat against the Blades seems to have been the last straw for most of our players. For half of this season I honestly thought the mighty Villa were going for top 6 but, now looking to finish about 12th.
Shame really.
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The Newcastle fans are up in arms over Bruce at the moment, but lets be honest - we're no better than them at the moment.
No. Sorry to disagree but that is totally wrong. We are vastly better then Newcastle
without Grealish?
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Really disappointed every time there's a sniff of top 6 we get a nose bleed. I know after all the dark years we should be happy with mid table mediocrity but we need a European spot to keep Grealish happy. I looked at the spurs team sheet and thought these are poor, and for much of the first half it seemed that way.
Konsa outstanding all game.
Cash and McGinn were playing well in the first half.
Just seem to have a big problem with the troublesome number 8 jersey no one seemsbe able to play that role. Morgan Sansom was very poor tonight even during our best spells in the first half. I think he will come good like Target and luiz after he's had 40 games under his belt, however Id rather these guys learned their trade somewhere else and came to Villa the finished article
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I cannot fathom how they finished the fitter and stronger it was them that played 120 minutes on Thursday not us.
Made7 changes and had a point to prove. We look to be coasting our way to May.
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The Newcastle fans are up in arms over Bruce at the moment, but lets be honest - we're no better than them at the moment.
No. Sorry to disagree but that is totally wrong. We are vastly better then Newcastle
without Grealish?
Without Grealish Martinez and Konsa we’d still be better.
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The Newcastle fans are up in arms over Bruce at the moment, but lets be honest - we're no better than them at the moment.
No. Sorry to disagree but that is totally wrong. We are vastly better then Newcastle
Again - at this moment, I don't think we are. We were lucky to take point off them last week, which to me answers the question
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The Newcastle fans are up in arms over Bruce at the moment, but lets be honest - we're no better than them at the moment.
No. Sorry to disagree but that is totally wrong. We are vastly better then Newcastle
Without Grealish were not.
Still wrong with or without Jack
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The Newcastle fans are up in arms over Bruce at the moment, but lets be honest - we're no better than them at the moment.
No. Sorry to disagree but that is totally wrong. We are vastly better then Newcastle
without Grealish?
Without Grealish Martinez and Konsa we’d still be better.
our points without suggest that is not the case.it’s relegation form
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Might be harsh but Cash could have done better in the challenge for Emi’s clearance for the first goal and the second was just brainless.
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The Newcastle fans are up in arms over Bruce at the moment, but lets be honest - we're no better than them at the moment.
No. Sorry to disagree but that is totally wrong. We are vastly better then Newcastle
without Grealish?
Without Grealish Martinez and Konsa we’d still be better.
our points without suggest that is not the case.
Defensively yes. Going forward without Jack? Debatable
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The Newcastle fans are up in arms over Bruce at the moment, but lets be honest - we're no better than them at the moment.
No. Sorry to disagree but that is totally wrong. We are vastly better then Newcastle
Without Grealish were not.
Still wrong with or without Jack
You thought we were better than them last week then? Interesting.
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In my opinion, Hourihane is a better player than half of what we have to choose from.
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Both 2 very poor teams at present. Whom we deem to be poorer is largely inconsequential.
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I cannot fathom how they finished the fitter and stronger it was them that played 120 minutes on Thursday not us.
Made7 changes and had a point to prove. We look to be coasting our way to May.
Which is a real shame considering this could make or break some of their euro hopes
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The Newcastle fans are up in arms over Bruce at the moment, but lets be honest - we're no better than them at the moment.
No. Sorry to disagree but that is totally wrong. We are vastly better then Newcastle
You do realise that when you say we are vastly better than Newcastle even without Grealish
Your pointing your finger straight at Smith
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I'm struggling to see how the second one was not at least referred to VAR.
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We need a couple of big attacking signings this summer. We just don't have enough quality in the final third.
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In my opinion, Hourihane is a better player than half of what we have to choose from.
He isn’t. He really isn’t
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The Newcastle fans are up in arms over Bruce at the moment, but lets be honest - we're no better than them at the moment.
No. Sorry to disagree but that is totally wrong. We are vastly better then Newcastle
without Grealish?
Without Grealish Martinez and Konsa we’d still be better.
our points without suggest that is not the case.it’s relegation form
It’s actually not. The quoted 1.06 gets you 40 points. No way you get relegated with 40 points this or most seasons.
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I'm struggling to see how the second one was not at least referred to VAR.
Clear foul for me.
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I thought we started well, without creating anything, but the game largely felt gone after they scored. Second half was fairly deflating in terms of lack of creativity more than anything else.
I wouldn’t start Trez again this season, he just hasn’t got the ability, El Ghazi has some ability but not enough for me and Traore is hit and miss and doesn’t do enough. Most of our problems at the moment stem from this. We just don’t look enough of threat, Targett and Cash are willing runners on the flanks, but the wingers are static half the time and overlaps aren’t happening, leading to lots of hopeful lumps into the box and Watkins being very isolated.
McGinn I thought played well and talk of him being replaced on here are wrong for me. The problem is he’s doing the job of two as Luiz is miles of the pace at the minute, so McGinn is trying to cover too much ground. Sanson tried hard, but didn’t effective the game too much.
Grealish will make a difference obviously, but we need more than this, might be worth throwing Davis in and Ollie in the wing for a couple of games and then seeing what Wes can do in a few weeks.
I also don’t see the point of relegation form talk when we’re not going to get relegated, it doesn’t really serve any purpose.
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The plan B is Davies, we looked to have made a mistake on not bringing in more attacking options and so it’s proved.
He deserves more than the 5-10 minutes he gets when the game is already lost though. I don’t know if he will ever be good enough, but he is strong with a good touch and he’d help us keep the ball. I think Watkins would benefit from linking in from wide - he looks worn out from chasing lost causes.
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We've now scored just one goal in over 7 hours and that was an own goal.
In the last 4 games we've played two of the worst teams in the division and two teams who were really out of sorts, and we've eked out a meagre 2 points.
We have improved greatly at the back, but if we concede the first goal, that's it.
Neither the manager nor the players have stepped up in Jack's absence, as our creativity is negligible.
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Why does our midfield look like it is running in treacle as opposition players (and tortoises) speed past them ?
Luiz needs to drop to the bench again. Play Nakamba in front of the defence and push McGinn and Sanson/Ramsey higher up the pitch.
Barkley can go back to Chelsea now, he offers absolutely nothing.
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The bottom line is that the wingers are all terrible. You buy a 30 million pound striker and then put out these players who offer absolutely no service to get him the ball. It is dreadful to watch. Until we get better wing play and some kind of solidity and creativity in the midfield (absent Jack), it just will not happen for us. Dire. Dreadful. Disgraceful.
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The bottom line is that the wingers are all terrible. You buy a 30 million pound striker and then put out these players who offer absolutely no service to get him the ball. It is dreadful to watch. Until we get better wing play and some kind of solidity and creativity in the midfield (absent Jack), it just will not happen for us. Dire. Dreadful. Disgraceful.
Dismal. Dean.
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Might be harsh but Cash could have done better in the challenge for Emi’s clearance for the first goal and the second was just brainless.
I don’t think it’s harsh. This isn’t knee jerk he’s concerned me defensively all season. Southampton home and away, united away Leeds at home all instantly spring to mind. You can tell he’s a winger converted to full back. In my opinion it’s a double whammy as not only is her at best equal to Guilbert but potential stopped us from investing in the much needed striker which would have give us additional options as well being able to rest Ollie. But he’s a fans favourite.
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I watched Guilbert today and he looked lost. I couldn't quite work out the shape of Strasbourg to be honest as he wasn't playing like a full back would for us.
Cash is excellent, an absolute warrior and he can deliver a ball. Bought Kane's nonsense tonight, but so do many.
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In my opinion, Hourihane is a better player than half of what we have to choose from.
I like Conor but he is not better than those who were on the pitch tonight I am afraid.
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In my opinion, Hourihane is a better player than half of what we have to choose from.
I like Conor but he is not better than those who were on the pitch tonight I am afraid.
Apart from having a goal in him.
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I watched Guilbert today and he looked lost. I couldn't quite work out the shape of Strasbourg to be honest as he wasn't playing like a full back would for us.
Cash is excellent, an absolute warrior and he can deliver a ball. Bought Kane's nonsense tonight, but so do many.
Seems to be the general opinion but it’s different to what I’ve seen. I seem to remember him getting destroyed in the first half v Liverpool as well and I pretty certain there was a decent shout for a penalty v Palace at 1-0 which VAR reviewed and didn’t give. I am not convinced.
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I get the work in progress, I get the ongoing improvement
But I also can not see us starting next season like we started this one.
Which means we need more consistency over the season, there were probably only 6 players out there tonight who should be considered as automatic starters next season
I hope we have some players lined up. I would furlough who ever brought in Trarore, and I think I have worked out why Chelsea let him go.
what do we have to lose by starting Davis ( I can not believe I am saying that) along Watkins.
At the moment Watkins is smothered out, has crap service and never looks like scoring, for all his commendable effort.
Barkley should not even be on the bench, no part in our future
\we did do something different tonight, we attacked the Witton in the second half.
that did not work to well either
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We were just lacking quality and confidence at the moment. We need much better from wide and there has to be a link between midfield and attack. At the moment there’s no cohesion.
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Our crossing from open play and set pieces was naff.
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Frankly I am struggling to come up with any excuses for tonight. It was abject.
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Spend £10 million on a set piece coach rather than a striker.
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I watched Guilbert today and he looked lost. I couldn't quite work out the shape of Strasbourg to be honest as he wasn't playing like a full back would for us.
Cash is excellent, an absolute warrior and he can deliver a ball. Bought Kane's nonsense tonight, but so do many.
How many assists does Cash have this season? He's decent with the ball but no more than that.
He's an average defender who is far too happy to go to ground at every opportunity. Good defenders go to ground only as a last resort, like Konsa. England talk is so far wide of the mark.
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Cash is an excellent player who has made mistakes in his first season here, he’ll surely get better
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2 assists.
He's a good defender. Very aggressive and competitive.
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Cash is not the problem.
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Cash is not the problem.
Especially when owned by billionaires.
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Our crossing from open play and set pieces was naff.
Crossing? We still struggle to take a throw-in. That said, I thought we were the better team until they scored, playing some of the best football we've played in recent months, not saying much I know but it was a noticeable and welcomed improvement. We pressed well, got in their faces and moved the ball relatively quickly. Thereafter we just unraveled until the last 20 minutes where Spurs were just taking the piss, they knew we had no fight in us.
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Spend £10 million on a set piece coach rather than a striker.
It’ll be worth every penny if we can consistently beat the first man from a corner
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I'm struggling to see how the second one was not at least referred to VAR.
I only saw it live but didn’t the challenge actually occur off the pitch?
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Id sooner have Guilbert and have put the extra and signed a Callum Wilson than have what Cash offers.
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I'm struggling to see how the second one was not at least referred to VAR.
I only saw it live but didn’t the challenge actually occur off the pitch?
It was just on the pitch and was a stonewall penalty im afraid. Just piss poor defending really.
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Id sooner have Guilbert and have put the extra and signed a Callum Wilson than have what Cash offers.
Blimey we 're tough markers sometimes. Cash was poor tonight but he's been one of our best players this season.
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We've now scored just one goal in over 7 hours and that was an own goal.
In the last 4 games we've played two of the worst teams in the division and two teams who were really out of sorts, and we've eked out a meagre 2 points.
We have improved greatly at the back, but if we concede the first goal, that's it.
Neither the manager nor the players have stepped up in Jack's absence, as our creativity is negligible.
One goal in seven hours is horrendous 😂
Bloody hell.
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2 assists.
He's a good defender. Very aggressive and competitive.
Doesn't say much for his delivery, does it? He attacks a lot but delivers little.
Great, he is competitive. By diving in nearly every time on an opponent. Gives away countless free kicks, two penalties (and should have been a third at Soton), six yellows. His throw ins really piss me off too...
He is wildly overrated on here, if Elmo had performed like Cash did tonight the abuse he would have got would be off the charts.
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The Newcastle fans are up in arms over Bruce at the moment, but lets be honest - we're no better than them at the moment.
No. Sorry to disagree but that is totally wrong. We are vastly better then Newcastle
Without Grealish were not.
Still wrong with or without Jack
You thought we were better than them last week then? Interesting.
Which isn’t the point. You say they are better then us. That’s wrong they are not. We didn’t play well against them last week agreed but it doesn’t make them a better team
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2 assists.
He's a good defender. Very aggressive and competitive.
Doesn't say much for his delivery, does it? He attacks a lot but delivers little.
Great, he is competitive. By diving in nearly every time on an opponent. Gives away countless free kicks, two penalties (and should have been a third at Soton), six yellows. His throw ins really piss me off too...
He is wildly overrated on here, if Elmo had performed like Cash did tonight the abuse he would have got would be off the charts.
You think everybody is shit and cowardly though.
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2 assists.
He's a good defender. Very aggressive and competitive.
Doesn't say much for his delivery, does it? He attacks a lot but delivers little.
Great, he is competitive. By diving in nearly every time on an opponent. Gives away countless free kicks, two penalties (and should have been a third at Soton), six yellows. His throw ins really piss me off too...
He is wildly overrated on here, if Elmo had performed like Cash did tonight the abuse he would have got would be off the charts.
You think everybody is shit and cowardly though.
Go easy on the bed time Bovril, petal
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We have a Premiership defence and the rest is Championship standard. The skill level from midfield onwards is terrible. Davis for all the crap he takes on here did more in his little cameo than most of the others did all day, thats not to say he is the answer because he's not but at least he looked interested.
We are nor gettingt relegated so i would much rather play a couple of youngsters til the end of the season, the likes of Trez, El Ghazi and Triore just boil my piss, clearly they are just not good enough but they still get trotted out each week.
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The Newcastle fans are up in arms over Bruce at the moment, but lets be honest - we're no better than them at the moment.
No. Sorry to disagree but that is totally wrong. We are vastly better then Newcastle
Without Grealish were not.
Still wrong with or without Jack
You thought we were better than them last week then? Interesting.
Which isn’t the point. You say they are better then us. That’s wrong they are not. We didn’t play well against them last week agreed but it doesn’t make them a better team
The real point in this ridiculous argument is last week we played poorly based on the standards we've set ourselves this season.
They played abouyt as well as they can do. And yet we were one routine clearence away from winning a dreadful game of football.
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2 assists.
He's a good defender. Very aggressive and competitive.
Doesn't say much for his delivery, does it? He attacks a lot but delivers little.
Great, he is competitive. By diving in nearly every time on an opponent. Gives away countless free kicks, two penalties (and should have been a third at Soton), six yellows. His throw ins really piss me off too...
He is wildly overrated on here, if Elmo had performed like Cash did tonight the abuse he would have got would be off the charts.
You think everybody is shit and cowardly though.
Go easy on the bed time Bovril, petal
Less of that please.
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That pen was bullshit and wouldn't have been given if it wasn't Kane.
Leaving that aside, another abject display. We are terrible going forward. Not sure what has changed from creating chance after chance before Christmas to now where we barely create anything. It can't just be Jack because we were poor before he got injured too. Hopefully his return galvanises us. We need something, season petering out badly.
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Id sooner have Guilbert and have put the extra and signed a Callum Wilson than have what Cash offers.
Blimey we 're tough markers sometimes. Cash was poor tonight but he's been one of our best players this season.
I put in my post before that it isn’t a knee jerk reaction to tonight, he genuinely concerns me having him at right back and most times I see the opposition targeting him. I think we missed a trick, having a Wilson up front would have allowed for resting Ollie, a tie up top or Ollie on the wing and moving Jack as a 10. Instead we got a right back that in my opinion it’s even doubtful if he’s better. We will never know anyway.
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A poor showing against a poor spuds team.
I was worried when I saw who the ref was and he lived up to his low expectations. He gave Villa very little throughout and in real time (I haven't watched it back since) I didn't think that was a pen.
Martinez was loose with his clearance for the 1st goal. Cash struggled in his 1st game back.
Trez and Traore were both ineffective. Bert has good feet when he can remember which is right and left. He cannot challenge for the ball in the air as he has no heading ability.
McGinn marking kane at corners...serious?
I'm not worried what Grealish might be thinking of the team in his absence. I am worried that Grealish in 2 of the last 3 seasons has spent lengthy periods of time injured and out of the team (the enforced covid break last season might also have spared him having a lengthy time out with injury). Going forwards we can ill afford to have this occur again.
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2 assists.
He's a good defender. Very aggressive and competitive.
Doesn't say much for his delivery, does it? He attacks a lot but delivers little.
Great, he is competitive. By diving in nearly every time on an opponent. Gives away countless free kicks, two penalties (and should have been a third at Soton), six yellows. His throw ins really piss me off too...
He is wildly overrated on here, if Elmo had performed like Cash did tonight the abuse he would have got would be off the charts.
You think everybody is shit and cowardly though.
Go easy on the bed time Bovril, petal
Cash has the 10th highest assist record for a defender. Seems pretty reasonable. If he lands a cross on Watkins head that goes in against Fulham he will become joint 6th.
He makes a raft of blocks, is defensively sound, highly aggressive and part of the reason we've improved defensively.
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The Newcastle fans are up in arms over Bruce at the moment, but lets be honest - we're no better than them at the moment.
No. Sorry to disagree but that is totally wrong. We are vastly better then Newcastle
Without Grealish were not.
Still wrong with or without Jack
You thought we were better than them last week then? Interesting.
Which isn’t the point. You say they are better then us.
Nobody said that.
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The Newcastle fans are up in arms over Bruce at the moment, but lets be honest - we're no better than them at the moment.
No. Sorry to disagree but that is totally wrong. We are vastly better then Newcastle
You do realise that when you say we are vastly better than Newcastle even without Grealish
Your pointing your finger straight at Smith
How?? I think Smith is doing a good job but we are still rebuilding. Nobody can deny surely that we are much better than last season and theres great improvement?? We still lack quality in the squad as a whole but the foundation is there. Newcastle are in decline with a dinosaur in charge. Even with our need for quality we’re still better
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Cash is the best thing since Mark Delaney, only better looking.
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It’s not difficult to explain really, Jack is possibly the best creative player in the league and anyone would miss him, the wingers have always been inconsistent, McGinn has been misused and Barkley hopelessly out of form. So we’ve created fewer chances.
I just feel this slump was inevitable given the strength of the squad.
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2 assists.
He's a good defender. Very aggressive and competitive.
Doesn't say much for his delivery, does it? He attacks a lot but delivers little.
Great, he is competitive. By diving in nearly every time on an opponent. Gives away countless free kicks, two penalties (and should have been a third at Soton), six yellows. His throw ins really piss me off too...
He is wildly overrated on here, if Elmo had performed like Cash did tonight the abuse he would have got would be off the charts.
You think everybody is shit and cowardly though.
Go easy on the bed time Bovril, petal
Cash has the 10th highest assist record for a defender. Seems pretty reasonable. If he lands a cross on Watkins head that goes in against Fulham he will become joint 6th.
He makes a raft of blocks, is defensively sound, highly aggressive and part of the reason we've improved defensively.
When he was injured we kept 2 clean sheets and really should have been a third against Newcastle. Defensively didn’t even notice he was out.
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It’s not difficult to explain really, Jack is possibly the best creative player in the league and anyone would miss him, the wingers have always been inconsistent, McGinn has been misused and Barkley hopelessly out of form. So we’ve created fewer chances.
I just feel this slump was inevitable given the strength of the squad.
Agreed.
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Being better than Newcastle isn't much of a recommendation is it? The fact is, for the last half of this season so far we're going along at a little bit better than relegation form, and with the games we've got coming up (Liverpool and City are two of the next three) we could well have played the last two thirds of the season at less than a point a game.
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Further improvement under Deano is a fact.
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Left me very flat, that one. I’m not angry I’m just disappointed.
International break probably coming at the right time, we need to hit reset.
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Being better than Newcastle isn't much of a recommendation is it? The fact is, for the last half of this season so far we're going along at a little bit better than relegation form, and with the games we've got coming up (Liverpool and City are two of the next three) we could well have played the last two thirds of the season at less than a point a game.
and without Jack we are less than a point a game.
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Really wanted to turn those fuckers over, but felt the result was inevitable.
I know we're nowhere near the team that got relegated, but that's the first game I've seen in a long while where I saw the starting eleven and knew we'd get nothing from it.
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Really wanted to turn those fuckers over, but felt the result was inevitable.
I know we're nowhere near the team that got relegated, but that's the first game I've seen in a long while where I saw the starting eleven and knew we'd get nothing from it.
It was also the first time I’ve watched us fall behind and never really felt we could get back in it.
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Left me very flat, that one. I’m not angry I’m just disappointed.
International break probably coming at the right time, we need to hit reset.
Agreed, felt like last season. Let's regroup during the break, get Jack back and hopefully a winning return against Fulham.
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Really wanted to turn those fuckers over, but felt the result was inevitable.
I know we're nowhere near the team that got relegated, but that's the first game I've seen in a long while where I saw the starting eleven and knew we'd get nothing from it.
It was also the first time I’ve watched us fall behind and never really felt we could get back in it.
I feel like that every time we concede first. Our powers of recovery are laughably bad.
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I watched Guilbert today and he looked lost. I couldn't quite work out the shape of Strasbourg to be honest as he wasn't playing like a full back would for us.
Cash is excellent, an absolute warrior and he can deliver a ball. Bought Kane's nonsense tonight, but so do many.
Seems to be the general opinion but it’s different to what I’ve seen. I seem to remember him getting destroyed in the first half v Liverpool as well and I pretty certain there was a decent shout for a penalty v Palace at 1-0 which VAR reviewed and didn’t give. I am not convinced.
I suggest that you re-watch the Liverpool game then. Yes, time and again Roberson was attacking Cash down their left wing but at no time did he, or Liverpool, get the better of him!
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Smith really needs to learn to change it up when Jack is out. That tried and trusted formation works because of Grealish - Without him in there, it's blunt.
On current form - I'd try 442 with a midfield diamond of:
Sanson
McGinn Ramsay
Nakamba
We've been abysmal recently, so what have we got to lose? Davis actually looked alright when he came on I thought, and as we have ZERO presence up front, the extra strength could certainly help Ollie out?
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I watched Guilbert today and he looked lost. I couldn't quite work out the shape of Strasbourg to be honest as he wasn't playing like a full back would for us.
Cash is excellent, an absolute warrior and he can deliver a ball. Bought Kane's nonsense tonight, but so do many.
Seems to be the general opinion but it’s different to what I’ve seen. I seem to remember him getting destroyed in the first half v Liverpool as well and I pretty certain there was a decent shout for a penalty v Palace at 1-0 which VAR reviewed and didn’t give. I am not convinced.
I suggest that you re-watch the Liverpool game then. Yes, time and again Roberson was attacking Cash down their left wing but at no time did he, or Liverpool, get the better of him!
I don’t need to. I remember how good he made Jota look in that first half. He certainly hasn’t looked that good since!
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I watched Guilbert today and he looked lost. I couldn't quite work out the shape of Strasbourg to be honest as he wasn't playing like a full back would for us.
Cash is excellent, an absolute warrior and he can deliver a ball. Bought Kane's nonsense tonight, but so do many.
Seems to be the general opinion but it’s different to what I’ve seen. I seem to remember him getting destroyed in the first half v Liverpool as well and I pretty certain there was a decent shout for a penalty v Palace at 1-0 which VAR reviewed and didn’t give. I am not convinced.
I suggest that you re-watch the Liverpool game then. Yes, time and again Roberson was attacking Cash down their left wing but at no time did he, or Liverpool, get the better of him!
I don’t need to. I remember how good he made Jota look in that first half. He certainly hasn’t looked that good since!
Harsh, very harsh. We get it; you clearly don't rate Cash.
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I watched Guilbert today and he looked lost. I couldn't quite work out the shape of Strasbourg to be honest as he wasn't playing like a full back would for us.
Cash is excellent, an absolute warrior and he can deliver a ball. Bought Kane's nonsense tonight, but so do many.
Seems to be the general opinion but it’s different to what I’ve seen. I seem to remember him getting destroyed in the first half v Liverpool as well and I pretty certain there was a decent shout for a penalty v Palace at 1-0 which VAR reviewed and didn’t give. I am not convinced.
I suggest that you re-watch the Liverpool game then. Yes, time and again Roberson was attacking Cash down their left wing but at no time did he, or Liverpool, get the better of him!
I don’t need to. I remember how good he made Jota look in that first half. He certainly hasn’t looked that good since!
Harsh, very harsh. We get it; you clearly don't rate Cash.
At first I thought it was settling in, then I thought I just didn’t see what added value he brought (as previously stated I’d sooner have put the £12 million to a another striking option) and now I just don’t see him being £9 million better than Guilbert.
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Toothless and quite boring, that. We need two more Watkinses, one to play either side of Watkins.
i only saw 2nd half. It was like watching championship dross. Smith needs to fkn sort em out. Jack coming back will help, but without him we’re absolutely clueless
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2 assists.
He's a good defender. Very aggressive and competitive.
Doesn't say much for his delivery, does it? He attacks a lot but delivers little.
Great, he is competitive. By diving in nearly every time on an opponent. Gives away countless free kicks, two penalties (and should have been a third at Soton), six yellows. His throw ins really piss me off too...
He is wildly overrated on here, if Elmo had performed like Cash did tonight the abuse he would have got would be off the charts.
You think everybody is shit and cowardly though.
Go easy on the bed time Bovril, petal
Cash has the 10th highest assist record for a defender. Seems pretty reasonable. If he lands a cross on Watkins head that goes in against Fulham he will become joint 6th.
He makes a raft of blocks, is defensively sound, highly aggressive and part of the reason we've improved defensively.
When he was injured we kept 2 clean sheets and really should have been a third against Newcastle. Defensively didn’t even notice he was out.
I think this is inaccurate, we did notice he was out. As much as I like Elmo and what he has done for the club, Elmo was culpable for soft goals against Leicester and Sheff Utd and hasn’t got the legs to get forwards in the way Cash can.
Cash is also a better player than Guilbert.
We have the second/third best defence in the league, it seems a bit bizarre to single out one of that unit, all 4 of them and the keeper have superb this season, even in this current slump in form. The problems we have at the moment are varied and largely related to midfield and in particular the wide attacking areas, in that context to single out an individual who is part of the best defense we have had in over a decade, is strange.
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Can we not change the fucking formation at least for one game to see what happens? Instead of just shuffling El Ghazi, Sanson and Trezeguet (who needs to be sold in the summer) around. Luiz aswell, fucking hell, worrying about Man City coming in for him? Don't make me laugh, he doesn't do anything.
Going forwards we look as predictable as Smith's game plan.
It's been very, very poor for 2 months now and throwing the same thing out on the pitch over and over again isn't working. Yes we will get a bit of a bounce when Grealish eventually comes back but the manager has to be much more proactive about changing bad runs when things have gone flat.
The midfield this summer needs a royal kick up the arse. Luiz, McGinn, Trezeguet, Traore and El Ghazi. None are safe such has been their deterioration as the season has gone on.
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I don’t think it helps that the midfield three is set up wrong. It could be that Sanson is getting up to speed, but we appear to have two players who in the main hold - Douglas (who’s out of form) and SJM (who loses a lot of his game in that role). If you’re going to do that then you need a really creative link player playing in front of them. We don’t have that, perhaps a fit and firing Barkley would be it. But at the moment it means the midfield looks horribly ineffective, which undermines the attack. It’s no coincidence that Traore looked much better earlier in the season, because he had players to link up with from the midfield. Now he tries to beat one man too many because our play is so siloed.
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I think we should ditch the wingers, play Luiz further forward and play Davis until ,Wesley is ready put McGinn behind them, and play marvellous and Elmo as dms it’s different and just might work.
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Imagine how good this season could have been if we hadn’t got the beach towels out in January.
I suppose, this is more like the form we should be expecting for a squad of around 8 good players.
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Can we not change the fucking formation at least for one game to see what happens? Instead of just shuffling El Ghazi, Sanson and Trezeguet (who needs to be sold in the summer) around. Luiz aswell, fucking hell, worrying about Man City coming in for him? Don't make me laugh, he doesn't do anything.
Going forwards we look as predictable as Smith's game plan.
It's been very, very poor for 2 months now and throwing the same thing out on the pitch over and over again isn't working. Yes we will get a bit of a bounce when Grealish eventually comes back but the manager has to be much more proactive about changing bad runs when things have gone flat.
The midfield this summer needs a royal kick up the arse. Luiz, McGinn, Trezeguet, Traore and El Ghazi. None are safe such has been their deterioration as the season has gone on.
I was crying out for this last night. 55 minutes and we hadn’t had a shot, on or off target against a side in poor form who’d just been thrashed in Europe with a long trip back.
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Leicester looked superb playing 3 at the back against man utd. Dean Smith needs to consider this formation change as a plan b. We have the players to play that system, and Traore/Al Ghazi can't be no worse down the middle with Watkins than out wide.
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Trying a 5-3-2 with Targett and Cash as flying wing backs could work.
Middle 2 of Nakamba and Luiz with either SJM or Sanson at the head of a midfield triangle.
Davis and Watkins up top, worth a try against Fulham at least
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We’re very toothless in the final third and have been for ages, however Kane cheated us big time yesterday. That’s taking the piss in the stakes of cheating, he lost the ball and took advantage of Cash diving in. Konsa throws his body in the line all game long, how long will it be before a striker throws himself over him?
It may not have changed the game as we’re was terrible but still the game is very wrong to allow that to happen. Even after rewatching it in VAR they came up with the same decision.
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God help us next season.
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Some of us really go from one extreme to the other.
We play well for a few weeks and we’re going to qualify for Europe. We go on a bad run of form and next season we will struggle and heading for relegation.
Maybe at the moment we’re a mid table squad having a bad run of form and have a world class player missing. We’re still re-building from a decade of dross. We’re going to invest again this summer and add quality and depth, we know that’s a given.
We’ve still only be paying small amounts per player when you compare it to the top half of the table. We’ve been hindered by FFP as well so that’s been a noose for the re-building.
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We have the nucleus of a very good team, with limited options we do not have a very good squad.
Upgraded recruitment in the summer, provided we are allowed to spend on what we need, should improve both the starting eleven and the squad options for next season.
Work in progress with huge improvement from last season, I am hoping to see more improvement next season.
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We could not beat a side with their reserve defence and most of the team had played 48 hours before and lost after extra time and then travelled home from abroad.
We should have beaten them easily but we just looked so lethargic (i think a few are either thinking about their holidays or the Euros)
If anyone thinks Conor is the answer (watch Cardiff's goal on Saturday) he was lucky he did not give away a penalty from the corner and then had no desire to win the 2nd ball from which they scored their goal! the bit I watched Bacuna (yes that one) bossed the midfield.
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Some of us really go from one extreme to the other.
We play well for a few weeks and we’re going to qualify for Europe. We go on a bad run of form and next season we will struggle and heading for relegation.
Maybe at the moment we’re a mid table squad having a bad run of form and have a world class player missing. We’re still re-building from a decade of dross. We’re going to invest again this summer and add quality and depth, we know that’s a given.
We’ve still only be paying small amounts per player when you compare it to the top half of the table. We’ve been hindered by FFP as well so that’s been a noose for the re-building.
Spot on
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Some of us really go from one extreme to the other.
We play well for a few weeks and we’re going to qualify for Europe. We go on a bad run of form and next season we will struggle and heading for relegation.
Maybe at the moment we’re a mid table squad having a bad run of form and have a world class player missing. We’re still re-building from a decade of dross. We’re going to invest again this summer and add quality and depth, we know that’s a given.
We’ve still only be paying small amounts per player when you compare it to the top half of the table. We’ve been hindered by FFP as well so that’s been a noose for the re-building.
Spot on
Yep.
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Some of us really go from one extreme to the other.
We play well for a few weeks and we’re going to qualify for Europe. We go on a bad run of form and next season we will struggle and heading for relegation.
Maybe at the moment we’re a mid table squad having a bad run of form and have a world class player missing. We’re still re-building from a decade of dross. We’re going to invest again this summer and add quality and depth, we know that’s a given.
We’ve still only be paying small amounts per player when you compare it to the top half of the table. We’ve been hindered by FFP as well so that’s been a noose for the re-building.
Spot on
Yep.
Agree totally.
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Great points, well made Ian.
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Well said Ian. A welcome bit of well thought through common sense I thought.
Yeah, it was disapointing again and very predictable. You could have named the subs before they were made for example. We just didn't look like scoring and without Jack., that's something Smith needs to address in the close season. Let's hope the break has come at the right time for us to regroup and hopefully go on a good run when we get back.
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I think a lot of the negative stuff on here is down to frustration with a manager that has no plan B.
Most of us WANT Dean Smith to succeed (in fact, ALL of us must surely?!), but those of us who criticise him get beaten with the 'When are you going to stop with the *Grealish got us promoted*' stick.
The fact is, would we even be in the Premier League now, had it not been for Jack's form in that run in? In the two seasons since, Dean Smith, despite spending the national debt of a small country on new players, STILL has no answer to fielding a competitive side that doesn't include Jack Grealish. The stats don't lie and the buck stops with him.
He persists with a totally out of form Douglas Luis, he's played John McGinn out of position most of the season and his form has majorly suffered as a result, he sticks with dysfunctional wingers who couldn't cross the road, thinking that replacing Jack with one of Trez, AEG or Traore will reap the same results?!
Its blatant that those tactics and formation do not suit this squad when Jack isn't playing. What is he waiting for.... Trez to be blessed with Jack's magic boots?!
Ollie will be next. The poor kid has run himself into the ground this season and needs help. 442 or 352 is the answer without Jack surely??
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Some of us really go from one extreme to the other.
We play well for a few weeks and we’re going to qualify for Europe. We go on a bad run of form and next season we will struggle and heading for relegation.
Maybe at the moment we’re a mid table squad having a bad run of form and have a world class player missing. We’re still re-building from a decade of dross. We’re going to invest again this summer and add quality and depth, we know that’s a given.
We’ve still only be paying small amounts per player when you compare it to the top half of the table. We’ve been hindered by FFP as well so that’s been a noose for the re-building.
The team has gone from one extreme to the other so what do you expect? From battering Liverpool and Arsenal to losing to Sheffield United and drawing with Newcastle. The first half of the season was European qualification form, but more lately it's getting uncomfortably close to relegation form. Obviously we've got enough points that relegation isn't a concern, but given how much money we've spent, to not have a wide attacking player capable of more than 1 good game in 5 is a bit of a concern.
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Brilliant post Ian. Bravo sir.
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most of our midfield eeds replacing, especially our wide options in AEG and Trez. I would play Bert as a back up to Watkins and move Davis out on loan. Whatever happens next this season has been a great improvement on last - safe I would have thought with 11 to play. Onwards and upwards in the summer, but the rebuilding might mean Jack going.
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We were promoted as the fifth best team in the Championaship.
We were gifted a psychological break from an awful first season by the pandemic hiatus.
Dean Smith, an inexperienced manager, has done well this season.
Staying up is sll that matters this time round.
Thie pandemic season is a a freak, expect more surprises next season
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Our current form, over the last 8-10 games, including a few with Grealish playing, is relegation form. Even the games we've won, Southampton, Arsenal and Leeds, we've won by sneaking an early goal then managing to defend it. We've drawn with relegation strugglers Brighton and Newcastle, and a misfiring Wolves, and lost to an awful Sheffield Utd, and the worst Spurs team I can remember in years. They didn't win it last night, we handed it to them. The last time I remember us playing any convincing creative football was at Burnley and we still managed to chuck that away.
5 goals in our last nine games against some of the worst teams in the league. It's staggering how we've gone from a team creating chances for fun to one that can't manage a shot on target until well into the second half. We're guilty of appalling decision making and lack of composure in the final third. I've lost count of the number of times where someone will try to shoot through a crowd of defenders throwing themselves across the path to goal, where it is inevitably blocked, when a little dummy would take the defenders out of the game and leave a clear shot, or else there are teammates left wide open to whom a little side pass would see them have a free shot. Last night Barkley did exactly that again - four Spurs defenders threw themselves in front of him to block, Watkins and another Villa player left wide open to Barkley's left, but instead of slipping a sideway pass he blasts it at the first defender. Brainless. The number of times we've hit crosses straight into the first defender is laughable.
Teams have worked out that we're pretty good if allowed to run in behind a high defensive line, but if they sit deep we are fairly clueless trying to break down packed defences. Smith needs to change things to deal with that.
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Some of us really go from one extreme to the other.
We play well for a few weeks and we’re going to qualify for Europe. We go on a bad run of form and next season we will struggle and heading for relegation.
Maybe at the moment we’re a mid table squad having a bad run of form and have a world class player missing. We’re still re-building from a decade of dross. We’re going to invest again this summer and add quality and depth, we know that’s a given.
We’ve still only be paying small amounts per player when you compare it to the top half of the table. We’ve been hindered by FFP as well so that’s been a noose for the re-building.
The team has gone from one extreme to the other so what do you expect? From battering Liverpool and Arsenal to losing to Sheffield United and drawing with Newcastle. The first half of the season was European qualification form, but more lately it's getting uncomfortably close to relegation form. Obviously we've got enough points that relegation isn't a concern, but given how much money we've spent, to not have a wide attacking player capable of more than 1 good game in 5 is a bit of a concern.
In the grand scheme of things many of the players we have bought have been for peanuts. They have served a purpose which was to try and get a foothold in this division but let’s face it players with a value of 15-20 million downwards are not normally Champion league players anymore. We’ve had to re-build an entire squad and it’s slowly getting there. Over a course of the season we are where we are and it’s in need of improvement to get to the next step. Hopefully the owners are on board with this progress back up the league.
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The same players showed they were capable of playing some great stuff first half of the season, yet now they look clueless. Some of that has to be down to the coaching and management. Then again it can happen to the best of them, as Liverpool have been proving.
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I think a lot of the negative stuff on here is down to frustration with a manager that has no plan B.
Most of us WANT Dean Smith to succeed (in fact, ALL of us must surely?!), but those of us who criticise him get beaten with the 'When are you going to stop with the *Grealish got us promoted*' stick.
The fact is, would we even be in the Premier League now, had it not been for Jack's form in that run in? In the two seasons since, Dean Smith, despite spending the national debt of a small country on new players, STILL has no answer to fielding a competitive side that doesn't include Jack Grealish. The stats don't lie and the buck stops with him.
He persists with a totally out of form Douglas Luis, he's played John McGinn out of position most of the season and his form has majorly suffered as a result, he sticks with dysfunctional wingers who couldn't cross the road, thinking that replacing Jack with one of Trez, AEG or Traore will reap the same results?!
Its blatant that those tactics and formation do not suit this squad when Jack isn't playing. What is he waiting for.... Trez to be blessed with Jack's magic boots?!
Ollie will be next. The poor kid has run himself into the ground this season and needs help. 442 or 352 is the answer without Jack surely??
Great points Nil.
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I think a lot of the negative stuff on here is down to frustration with a manager that has no plan B.
Most of us WANT Dean Smith to succeed (in fact, ALL of us must surely?!), but those of us who criticise him get beaten with the 'When are you going to stop with the *Grealish got us promoted*' stick.
The fact is, would we even be in the Premier League now, had it not been for Jack's form in that run in? In the two seasons since, Dean Smith, despite spending the national debt of a small country on new players, STILL has no answer to fielding a competitive side that doesn't include Jack Grealish. The stats don't lie and the buck stops with him.
He persists with a totally out of form Douglas Luis, he's played John McGinn out of position most of the season and his form has majorly suffered as a result, he sticks with dysfunctional wingers who couldn't cross the road, thinking that replacing Jack with one of Trez, AEG or Traore will reap the same results?!
Its blatant that those tactics and formation do not suit this squad when Jack isn't playing. What is he waiting for.... Trez to be blessed with Jack's magic boots?!
Ollie will be next. The poor kid has run himself into the ground this season and needs help. 442 or 352 is the answer without Jack surely??
agree with most of this. The formation isn’t working. Watkins is a keen worker, but he can’t be expected to do it all on his own up front. I’ve thought for a while they need to change it up. I know Davis isn’t rated in here and you could probably understand why with his lack of goals ever. But he might be the support that Watkins needs to get himself scoring. The lad runs himself ragged for the team, but has just looked really isolated of late.
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I think now is a perfect time to build for next season. It would be nice to secure a Euro slot but I think we need another season anyway for that, not that I would miss the ropey league at all-it does attract players with ambition.
We should be blooding more youngsters and trying some different tactics ahead of the break.
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Some of us really go from one extreme to the other.
We play well for a few weeks and we’re going to qualify for Europe. We go on a bad run of form and next season we will struggle and heading for relegation.
Maybe at the moment we’re a mid table squad having a bad run of form and have a world class player missing. We’re still re-building from a decade of dross. We’re going to invest again this summer and add quality and depth, we know that’s a given.
We’ve still only be paying small amounts per player when you compare it to the top half of the table. We’ve been hindered by FFP as well so that’s been a noose for the re-building.
The team has gone from one extreme to the other so what do you expect? From battering Liverpool and Arsenal to losing to Sheffield United and drawing with Newcastle. The first half of the season was European qualification form, but more lately it's getting uncomfortably close to relegation form. Obviously we've got enough points that relegation isn't a concern, but given how much money we've spent, to not have a wide attacking player capable of more than 1 good game in 5 is a bit of a concern.
In the grand scheme of things many of the players we have bought have been for peanuts. They have served a purpose which was to try and get a foothold in this division but let’s face it players with a value of 15-20 million downwards are not normally Champion league players anymore. We’ve had to re-build an entire squad and it’s slowly getting there. Over a course of the season we are where we are and it’s in need of improvement to get to the next step. Hopefully the owners are on board with this progress back up the league.
Another spot on post, I’ve tried to post as much but you’ve done it perfectly
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I think now is a perfect time to build for next season. It would be nice to secure a Euro slot but I think we need another season anyway for that, not that I would miss the ropey league at all-it does attract players with ambition.
We should be blooding more youngsters and trying some different tactics ahead of the break.
Not sure that's really going to help much. Most of the kids will need a season out on loan somewhere, so while a few minutes here and there would be nice, I don't think it's going to make a big difference to either them or us. If anything, with how difficult our run in is, it could wreck their confidence if we get stuffed every week.
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We’ve chucked inexperienced players in before. It never usually works and sometimes almost breaks them. We do need to try something a bit different though.
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After a reasonable start, yet another unacceptable performance, against a Spurs side there for the taking. On present form there's probably only Sheff Utd, Albion and Newcastle worse than us. Traore is a player, with so talent, yet can't think of too many Villa players that have had me screaming at the tele more than him, with his cock ups.
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Haven't read all of this thread but have to say that the thing that really stood out for me last night was how much of a physical difference there appeared to be between the two sides. Spurs players all seemed to be bigger, taller, stronger and fitter than the Villa players.
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Another poor showing apart from in defense. I didn't expect much else until the game started. We looked okay for the first 15 mins, if we'd kept that up who knows? We allowed them back into the game and with their better players all lifted by their first goal there was no way we were getting back into it. In truth, Spurs could have played worse and would still have beaten us. Without Jack there is no flair or creativity.
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Haven't read all of this thread but have to say that the thing that really stood out for me last night was how much of a physical difference there appeared to be between the two sides. Spurs players all seemed to be bigger, taller, stronger and fitter than the Villa players.
That's what you get when you have a squad with an estimated value of £680m against one worth an estimated £380m. (numbers from Transfermarkt).
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Haven't read all of this thread but have to say that the thing that really stood out for me last night was how much of a physical difference there appeared to be between the two sides. Spurs players all seemed to be bigger, taller, stronger and fitter than the Villa players.
That's what you get when you have a squad with an estimated value of £680m against one worth an estimated £380m. (numbers from Transfermarkt).
Ehhhhhhhh? What on earth has their value got to with how big they are?!
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Haven't read all of this thread but have to say that the thing that really stood out for me last night was how much of a physical difference there appeared to be between the two sides. Spurs players all seemed to be bigger, taller, stronger and fitter than the Villa players.
That's what you get when you have a squad with an estimated value of £680m against one worth an estimated £380m. (numbers from Transfermarkt).
Ehhhhhhhh? What on earth has their value got to with how big they are?!
Bigger, taller, stronger, fitter was the original post. Not just size, but overall physicality. When you take those criteria, you generally get a better quality of player. It's why the little kids don't get a look in.
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Geoff Horsfield was big and strong and physical. He used to be a hod carrier.
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We’ve chucked inexperienced players in before. It never usually works and sometimes almost breaks them. We do need to try something a bit different though.
Think Louie Barry is fit again so he's one we should be giving some sub minutes to in last few weeks of the season just to get him used to prem speed. Never know he took the Liverpool goal well against experienced defence and keeper so could be a legitimate squad option for us next season.
Others need to be loaned out.
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Really wanted to turn those fuckers over, but felt the result was inevitable.
I know we're nowhere near the team that got relegated, but that's the first game I've seen in a long while where I saw the starting eleven and knew we'd get nothing from it.
It was also the first time I’ve watched us fall behind and never really felt we could get back in it.
Really? We have 1 point from games we have fallen behind in this season. I don't expect us to get anything when we concede the 1st goal.
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We’ve chucked inexperienced players in before. It never usually works and sometimes almost breaks them. We do need to try something a bit different though.
Think Louie Barry is fit again so he's one we should be giving some sub minutes to in last few weeks of the season just to get him used to prem speed. Never know he took the Liverpool goal well against experienced defence and keeper so could be a legitimate squad option for us next season.
Others need to be loaned out.
I read somewhere that we've put him on a muscle building programme for next season.
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I think we can justifiably expect a big reaction against Fulham. Jack back and Ollie capped.
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Haven't read all of this thread but have to say that the thing that really stood out for me last night was how much of a physical difference there appeared to be between the two sides. Spurs players all seemed to be bigger, taller, stronger and fitter than the Villa players.
Mourinho is well known for favouring physically taller/bigger players in his team building. I don't think that makes too much difference except maybe set pieces, which didn't really matter, as we couldn't beat the first man with the crossed ball anyway,
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The midfield has neither physicality or strength or speed. It's the major weak point of the team, it will be the positions we improve on in the Summer you can guarantee it.
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Haven't read all of this thread but have to say that the thing that really stood out for me last night was how much of a physical difference there appeared to be between the two sides. Spurs players all seemed to be bigger, taller, stronger and fitter than the Villa players.
That's what you get when you have a squad with an estimated value of £680m against one worth an estimated £380m. (numbers from Transfermarkt).
Ehhhhhhhh? What on earth has their value got to with how big they are?!
Bigger, taller, stronger, fitter was the original post. Not just size, but overall physicality. When you take those criteria, you generally get a better quality of player. It's why the little kids don't get a look in.
That just dosn't stand up to any scrutiny at all. Sheffield United are a team of strong cloggers, they're bottom of the league. Leeds are an extremely fit and physical side, and their squad cost bugger all. Man City are full of smaller more skilful players and they cost £1bn+. Ollie Watkins is much smaller than Davis but is now worth £50m+ probably while you couldn't give Davis away.
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Haven't read all of this thread but have to say that the thing that really stood out for me last night was how much of a physical difference there appeared to be between the two sides. Spurs players all seemed to be bigger, taller, stronger and fitter than the Villa players.
That's what you get when you have a squad with an estimated value of £680m against one worth an estimated £380m. (numbers from Transfermarkt).
Ehhhhhhhh? What on earth has their value got to with how big they are?!
Bigger, taller, stronger, fitter was the original post. Not just size, but overall physicality. When you take those criteria, you generally get a better quality of player. It's why the little kids don't get a look in.
That just dosn't stand up to any scrutiny at all. Sheffield United are a team of strong cloggers, they're bottom of the league. Leeds are an extremely fit and physical side, and their squad cost bugger all. Man City are full of smaller more skilful players and they cost £1bn+. Ollie Watkins is much smaller than Davis but is now worth £50m+ probably while you couldn't give Davis away.
Read this article (https://www.sporttechie.com/liverpool-epl-champions-athlete-training-fitness)
It discusses Liverpool's athletes, the weights room and emphasis on athletes that can play football rather than footballers that can become athletes.
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Davis did more in 10 minutes than Watkins in 90 last night. The poor bustard gets nothing but grief, has started about two games in the PL and does his best with the limited time he gets.
We need better (and Ollie is clearly a better player) but it strikes me as bizarre to slag him off for his cameo last night. He made a chance out of nothing with a clever bit of body movement and he came short to win the ball and get us moving forward a couple of times.
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I think he gets slagged off because he is a ''forward'' who hasn't scored a league goal for 3 and a half years and 2 in 58. The mother of all Heskeys.
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I think he gets slagged off because he is a ''forward'' who hasn't scored a league goal for 3 and a half years and 2 in 58. The mother of all Heskeys.
Vast majority of those are 5-10 minute substitute appearances. He shows glimpses that make me reluctant to just write him off which is why giving him a run of games to the end of the season makes sense to me.
We’ve not been in this mid-table position for a fair while and given the club have given him a contract to 2024, Smith should give him a chance.
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I've always liked him, he's never in a million years a goal scorer but he makes the ball stick, if we are to persist with this god forsaken wacking it up to the forwards then he's our best option because at the moment as soon as we wack it long its coming straight back at us. Play Ollie in the 10 or as a second striker and keep him up with Davis because at the moment we have a £30m striker that we are not supplying.
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Davis can’t do a fat lot in 10 minutes. Looked like it was Craig Shakespeare who persuaded Dean to put him on from what I saw on the TV.
Either play him for a few games and see what happens or get rid of him, as it’s not doing him or us any good sticking him on for a few minutes every now and again.
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Davis did more in 10 minutes than Watkins in 90 last night. The poor bustard gets nothing but grief, has started about two games in the PL and does his best with the limited time he gets.
We need better (and Ollie is clearly a better player) but it strikes me as bizarre to slag him off for his cameo last night. He made a chance out of nothing with a clever bit of body movement and he came short to win the ball and get us moving forward a couple of times.
Totally agree. Anything’s currently better than our 3 so called wingers who somehow get regular game time
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Really wanted to turn those fuckers over, but felt the result was inevitable.
I know we're nowhere near the team that got relegated, but that's the first game I've seen in a long while where I saw the starting eleven and knew we'd get nothing from it.
It was also the first time I’ve watched us fall behind and never really felt we could get back in it.
Really? We have 1 point from games we have fallen behind in this season. I don't expect us to get anything when we concede the 1st goal.
Really. I always thought we were threat to teams in particular the first half of the season. Last night and has been the case for the last few weeks I just didn’t feel we had it in us.
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Davis did more in 10 minutes than Watkins in 90 last night. The poor bustard gets nothing but grief, has started about two games in the PL and does his best with the limited time he gets.
We need better (and Ollie is clearly a better player) but it strikes me as bizarre to slag him off for his cameo last night. He made a chance out of nothing with a clever bit of body movement and he came short to win the ball and get us moving forward a couple of times.
I agree with this Eamonn. The end of last season when him or Samatta were expected to lead the he didn’t look he could cut it, but that was the mother of pressure cooker football environments.
Whilst we’re struggling give the kid a chance and put Ollie out wide, that combination simply cannot do any worse than the Trez, el Ghazi, Traore combo at the moment.
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There is no doubt Watkins is a much better player but if i Were to ask who you would say is better at holding and protecting the ball i would say Davis every time.
We havn't sold him because obviously the manager sees something in him, i agree, switch the formation let them play together, god knows Watkins could do with the help.
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Davis can’t do a fat lot in 10 minutes. Looked like it was Craig Shakespeare who persuaded Dean to put him on from what I saw on the TV.
Either play him for a few games and see what happens or get rid of him, as it’s not doing him or us any good sticking him on for a few minutes every now and again.
Big problem though is he dosen't even come on half the time when we need a goal. The Leeds and Southampton defeats at start of the season he was unused sub in both and even though he's featured more recently he's still usually the last sub we make after the usual swopping wide players e.g. we don't put him on say after 55th minutes which would've been interesting yesterday at 0-1.
I'd love DS to be asked a serious question about him in one of the pressers about our use of him in last two years e.g. why do we never put him out on loan to give him regular starts and give him more confidence and why do we just keep him around and not bother getting in a decent back up striker window after window. It's all a bit odd.
Just feels now like him hanging around is just stopping us doing much upfront, is he really contracted until 2024?
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With Jack back, I really would urge DS to think about changing to 2 up front. Davis may not be the answer as a goal scorer but, my feeling is that Watkins could play off him to get the goals as, Davis does have the strength to hold off defenders, thereby creating space and room for Ollie. I’d also be looking for DS to give Nakamba a run in the team. Let’s face it, the goals have dried up and he now has time to sort out a different formation. Other teams now seem to have sussed our weaknesses, ie the wingers who generally can’t cross a ball so, a re-think is needed. Had you told me I would be saying this, particularly about Davis & Nakamba a couple of months ago, I would have definitely said no but, needs must and, we can’t just keep doing what we are doing. If you think about it, if we as fans, know exactly what the like for like substitutions are going to be, you can bet your bottom dollar that the opposing managers know the same.
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Davis has never been given a fair chance to establish himself. How many full games has he ever played? Or full halves even? Or any spells of more than 15 minutes? The guy has some ability and strength to keep the ball at the sharp end and I'm another who thinks Ollie might benefit from playing off him. We could do a lot worse and we have been doing worse - like persisting with the utterly pointless and dreadful Trezeguet who has played far more and offered what, one assist all season? Or AEG and Traore who are clearly very inconsistent to say the least. Give Davis a run while there is nothing to lose and we'll find out once and for all if he's got what it takes. It can't be any worse than what we've endured the last 8-10 games.
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There’s some logic to that. But I’m 99.9% certain that Davis isn’t good enough.
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Neither is Trez. Let's mix it up, we're safe in midtable.
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I think he gets slagged off because he is a ''forward'' who hasn't scored a league goal for 3 and a half years and 2 in 58. The mother of all Heskeys.
Vast majority of those are 5-10 minute substitute appearances. He shows glimpses that make me reluctant to just write him off which is why giving him a run of games to the end of the season makes sense to me.
We’ve not been in this mid-table position for a fair while and given the club have given him a contract to 2024, Smith should give him a chance.
He still hasn't scored for 3 and a half years in the league. Whatever spin you put on it, that's an abysmal record.
Having said that I'm all for trying him up front with Jack and Watkins playing off him. Anything to break the cycle of fucking Trezeguet/El Ghazi/Traore.
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I think he gets slagged off because he is a ''forward'' who hasn't scored a league goal for 3 and a half years and 2 in 58. The mother of all Heskeys.
Vast majority of those are 5-10 minute substitute appearances. He shows glimpses that make me reluctant to just write him off which is why giving him a run of games to the end of the season makes sense to me.
We’ve not been in this mid-table position for a fair while and given the club have given him a contract to 2024, Smith should give him a chance.
He still hasn't scored for 3 and a half years in the league. Whatever spin you put on it, that's an abysmal record.
Having said that I'm all for trying him up front with Jack and Watkins playing off him. Anything to break the cycle of fucking Trezeguet/El Ghazi/Traore.
Too right
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He still hasn't scored for 3 and a half years in the league. Whatever spin you put on it, that's an abysmal record.
It'd be interesting to know how many equivalent games all his minutes over that period amount to. It wouldn't surprise me if it's 10 or less. Plenty of forwards go on scoreless runs of 10 or so games even when playing all the time so they are "up to speed". Ollie had a lengthy non-scoring spell this season. I still think he's never been given a proper chance to prove himself and there's no better opportunity to correct that than now.
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He still hasn't scored for 3 and a half years in the league. Whatever spin you put on it, that's an abysmal record.
It'd be interesting to know how many equivalent games all his minutes over that period amount to. It wouldn't surprise me if it's 10 or less. Plenty of forwards go on scoreless runs of 10 or so games even when playing all the time so they are "up to speed". Ollie had a lengthy non-scoring spell this season. I still think he's never been given a proper chance to prove himself and there's no better opportunity to correct that than now.
I thought last year when he started the League Cup game against Wolves he was close to getting a run, Wes had been struggling and he'd looked good whenever he'd come on, but then he picked up an injury again. I think that's been half the problem, getting injured at the wrong times, he's been unlucky in that sense.
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He still hasn't scored for 3 and a half years in the league. Whatever spin you put on it, that's an abysmal record.
It'd be interesting to know how many equivalent games all his minutes over that period amount to. It wouldn't surprise me if it's 10 or less. Plenty of forwards go on scoreless runs of 10 or so games even when playing all the time so they are "up to speed". Ollie had a lengthy non-scoring spell this season. I still think he's never been given a proper chance to prove himself and there's no better opportunity to correct that than now.
He's played 2212 minutes for us in league games. The equivalent of 24 1/2 games.
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He still hasn't scored for 3 and a half years in the league. Whatever spin you put on it, that's an abysmal record.
It'd be interesting to know how many equivalent games all his minutes over that period amount to. It wouldn't surprise me if it's 10 or less. Plenty of forwards go on scoreless runs of 10 or so games even when playing all the time so they are "up to speed". Ollie had a lengthy non-scoring spell this season. I still think he's never been given a proper chance to prove himself and there's no better opportunity to correct that than now.
He's played 2212 minutes for us in league games. The equivalent of 24 1/2 games.
Plenty of better players have relatively similar poor records, Werner at Chelsea, must be close?
I don’t think Davis is the answer for next season or long term, but last year all the pressure was on him to lead the line to help keep us up. If Smith puts him in now with Grealish on one side and Watkins on the other, he’s surrounded with quality and no real pressure in terms of us being mid table.
As hard as he works, I can’t bear the idea of watching Trez flap around again this season, running down blind alleys then giving away a foul.
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He still hasn't scored for 3 and a half years in the league. Whatever spin you put on it, that's an abysmal record.
It'd be interesting to know how many equivalent games all his minutes over that period amount to. It wouldn't surprise me if it's 10 or less. Plenty of forwards go on scoreless runs of 10 or so games even when playing all the time so they are "up to speed". Ollie had a lengthy non-scoring spell this season. I still think he's never been given a proper chance to prove himself and there's no better opportunity to correct that than now.
He's played 2212 minutes for us in league games. The equivalent of 24 1/2 games.
I'm not saying Keinan is ever going to be a regular first-team player for us, I've not seen enough to have any confidence he will, but that 24-and-a-half games stat is a bit misleading. He played a LOT in the first half of the 2017/18 season before we signed Grabban in the January. I'd bet well over half of those minutes were in that period alone. When he was only 19.
Take the first half of the 2017/18 season out of the equation, and I'd be surprised if his minutes came to more than a dozen games in the last three years. Probably less than half a dozen games in the premier league with the majority of his appearances being less than 10 mins.
To see if he's ever going to cut it at a high level, he absolutely needs to go out on loan and play. He needs 10-15 games on the bounce, lets see him with some match fitness and regular starts - then let's see how he gets on. I'd love that to be in the Championship where I think he'd do a good job for someone.
I believe he signed a new contract last season, so he's here for a while, so let's try and develop him, and worst case get a couple of million from a Championship side.
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The reason he's never gone on loan is very likely to do with the fact that we've never had enough cover up front. He's probably spent most of his time here as no lower than third choice.
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The reason he's never gone on loan is very likely to do with the fact that we've never had enough cover up front. He's probably spent most of his time here as no lower than third choice.
I guess the issue is that he is firmly third choice as well.
I'd like him to get a run now, with no fans in the ground to get on his back if it doesn't go his way, and we'll have a far better idea if he can do it or not. He deserves a chance.
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Sorry but fans or no fans KD will never be PL ability.
If we are going to experiment I would sooner see Louie Barry get game time or if Wes is fit enough.
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If you told me the sky was blue I'd go outside and check.
Give him a run, he'll take the weight off Ollie's shoulders and allow to focus more on getting behind again.
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Ollie has been called up for England and has zero pressure on him in the remaining games, I’m positive as I am the sky can also be grey, that Ollie wants no rest.
I would sooner Stick Mings up top than KD, he’s a better finisher.
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Agree with Smithy, he needs a good run of 10-15 games minimum either with us or on loan before anyone can really say he's going to cut it or not.
To write him of on the basis of bit parts in fits and starts over a 3-4 year period is premature, even if it does amount to the equivalent of 24 games. It's still not much to go on, and it was mostly in small chunks of 10-15 minutes where any striker would struggle to influence a game, let alone score. Championship level might be the best place for that but since he's here and he's basically current second choice striker, and we've not much to lose, I don't see why he couldn't be given a run with Ollie going a bit wider or playing off him.
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As soon as Wes is match fit it’s ta ta Keinan.
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Keinan's movement and strength, with one or two little tricks makes him a player I've always liked, and someone that better players can work off.
As most on here can agree that Bert/Anwar/Trez are a combination of brilliant but infuriatingly inconsistent/hard-working/wimpish & crap, it would seem now is the time to bring KD in.
Should it prove to be a disaster (and recent standards up front haven't been great, have they?) there's always Wes coming in as an option when he's ready.
Oh, and I watched the youth team on Weds -they were superb, but Barry was one of the poorer performers.
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I thought Barry was decent midweek.
I agree about the Wes comments.