Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: olaftab on March 05, 2021, 11:39:08 AM

Title: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: olaftab on March 05, 2021, 11:39:08 AM
We are about to complete a full season of football at elite level without fans and wall to wall TV coverage of all Premier League games and most Championship matches. There is no drop in broadcast income and with more matches available there is more money coming in from media. In return broadcast media are happy for this unrestricted access and TV audiences are  growing and there is no impact on overseas income for them. Crowd noise is giving the fake impression of fans being there. For TV and armchair fans here and around the world there are no negatives as far as I can see. The media are  making lip service comments like "Can't wait to have crowds back" but do they really care?
This is not a debate about impact of fans in the ground on results, home and away advantage etc this is purely about can we just carry on  with Television only?
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: aj2k77 on March 05, 2021, 11:42:05 AM
I find it a shit spectacle and almost pointless without fans to be honest. As decent a season as we are having it's lessened by the fact no one is there to take part in it so it isn't as important to me.
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: Martin Carruthers on March 05, 2021, 11:45:19 AM
Can't think of a single match I've watched all the way through not involving us without a crowd.
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: LeeB on March 05, 2021, 11:47:36 AM
Can't think of a single match I've watched all the way through not involving us without a crowd.

Same here.
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: OCD on March 05, 2021, 11:49:23 AM
Generally teams are doing poorer in home games and better in away games, some teams affected more than others. Packed stadiums and the atmospheres they create add an extra challenge...whether players are able to deal with the additional pressure, whether that be fans getting on the backs of their own players or making it a hostile environment for visiting teams.

I'm glad football has been able to continue without crowds but I'll be glad when crowds are let back in, even for games that I'm not there in person.
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: Brend'Watkins on March 05, 2021, 11:56:43 AM
I don't think so.  Football on the TV in the UK at least is currently well received.  I watch a lot of it as there isn't much else to do in our current plight.  As soon as life gets back to something like normal I will be back to going to VP, some away games and down the pub for the others I can't get to. My TV watching of other games will be limited as other interests take over.

Daily football matches is a welcome distraction and has been  for the last 12 months.  I'm not certain another 12 months of the same would be as popular.
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 05, 2021, 12:04:18 PM
I don't mind the no crowd matches, except when it is on a channel that doesn't allow you to turn the shit pretend crowd noise off. I like hearing all the moaning and swearing.
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: cannock villa on March 05, 2021, 12:18:42 PM
The longer this is going on the more i'm finding watching the Villa is like a TV show now. This will be the first season in over 35 years i haven't gone to Villa Park to watch a live match and reality is becoming blurred. I look forward to a match now like i look forward to the next episode of Line of Duty
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: Brend'Watkins on March 05, 2021, 12:33:15 PM
I don't mind the no crowd matches, except when it is on a channel that doesn't allow you to turn the shit pretend crowd noise off. I like hearing all the moaning and swearing.

Ha! Don't forget the number of commentator apologies, that's quite amusing too.  I'm actually surprised there's not more of it picked up.
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: OCD on March 05, 2021, 01:03:11 PM
I don't mind the no crowd matches, except when it is on a channel that doesn't allow you to turn the shit pretend crowd noise off. I like hearing all the moaning and swearing.

Ha! Don't forget the number of commentator apologies, that's quite amusing too.  I'm actually surprised there's not more of it picked up.

The commentator apologies are annoying. Just do a warning before the match starts and leave it at that. If they've really got that much of a problem, make the viewer put in an access code at the start of the game.
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: SoccerHQ on March 05, 2021, 01:12:28 PM
It's good we've had an enjoyable season so far (imagine if this all happened anytime between 2010-16 period) but I find the live match watching or listening experience really boring without crowds.

Just watching endless streams of players shouting rattling around empty stands and I've given up listening to matches on radio given WM for instance in last few months have had to do commentary on our away games in the Mailbox so it's what it is, commentating off a tv screen in silence.

I hate it and can't wait for August when at least a decent % of ground can be full again and add some life to games. Been looking at a few of the after match celebrations on YT in last few days after some of our wins last season at VP and it all just feels so hollow at the moment.

Can't wait for these moments again:



Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: dave.woodhall on March 05, 2021, 01:12:37 PM
The apologies in boxing are the funniest. You're watching two men battering each other towards unconsciousness but you'll be offended by a bit of swearing?
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: paul_e on March 05, 2021, 01:18:51 PM
This is slightly anecdotal, and is definitely a tangent from the opening post, but looking around on various fan forums and social media I think it's pretty clear that being at the games is hugely important to a lot of people. For me that shows the 'no televised games at 3pm on on a Saturday' thing is a bit out of date, the experience of going to games is just so much more than just watching the match to so many people. I know part of argument is that people will stay home/pub to watch their 'big' team instead of going to watch a small local team but I'd love to see what the evidence for that is.

More on topic I agree with CD that watching without any crowd noise is far better than the fake stuff which is just horrible.
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: Lsvilla on March 05, 2021, 01:26:51 PM
I don't mind the no crowd matches, except when it is on a channel that doesn't allow you to turn the shit pretend crowd noise off. I like hearing all the moaning and swearing.

Ha! Don't forget the number of commentator apologies, that's quite amusing too.  I'm actually surprised there's not more of it picked up.

The commentator apologies are annoying. Just do a warning before the match starts and leave it at that. If they've really got that much of a problem, make the viewer put in an access code at the start of the game.
The apologies make me laugh. If they were sat in our lounge watching some of our games they’d soon realise apologising for the odd word picked up by the pitch mics is not really necessary.
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: exigo on March 05, 2021, 01:31:42 PM
My missus can't wait for the day when I'm back at games every weekend, home and away, rather than yelling obscenities into a screen at home. So, to answer the question, yes fans in grounds is necessary, if only for marriages up and down the country.
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: Baldy on March 05, 2021, 01:36:40 PM
I miss the 'zoom ins' on a nice bit of totty. Especially if the match is crap.  :)
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: LeeB on March 05, 2021, 01:57:29 PM
I fucking hate watching it with the family around me, I struggle very much be be 'nice, patient, understanding Dad' when I'm trying to watch the match.
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: Mister E on March 05, 2021, 02:24:50 PM
Watching such wall-to-wall football on TV with the surreality of there not being crowds has exposed the poor product that football is. Watching the best team this season - Citeh - passing the ball across the back 5 endlessly is not really entertainment, even if they do eventually create a goal from the possession they have. Seeing SheffU build a wall that Villa could not climb was not particularly entertaining.
Football has always been about the community, identity and controversy of allegiance; to one's team. It's always been the opportunity to disagree about the turns the games take, the dodgy decisions, the unexpected results, the injuries and the surprises of player-performance.
It's always been the reason to meet up with mates and fellow-fans; and - yes! - the inevitability of being fleeced by Woodhall before the game.
Even for those who do not attend the games live, the TV product is massively diminished by the absence of fans in the ground: the expressions, the surging noise of a supportive home-crowd, pre- and post-match interviews with people scurrying to or from the ground. The crowd sings songs, takes the piss, provides humour and holds refs and officials to account.
Being at the ground allows me to be unfettered, unconstrained by the usual social norms - which is not to say I become something I'm not; simply that -  like at a pantomime - I can allow my emotions a different sort of release.

If Sky, BT et al think they have captured the essence of the 'product', they are deluded and plain wrong.
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: andyh on March 05, 2021, 02:29:58 PM
I fucking hate watching it with the family around me, I struggle very much be be 'nice, patient, understanding Dad' when I'm trying to watch the match.
I’m exactly the same.
I fucking hate watching it with the family around me, I struggle very much be be 'nice, patient, understanding Dad' when I'm trying to watch the match.
I’m the same, I’d much rather watch on my own.
My missus hates me using the c word, and as I have no self control whatsoever, there’s my justification for locking myself away in another room to watch the Villa.
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: LeeB on March 05, 2021, 02:42:59 PM
I fucking hate watching it with the family around me, I struggle very much be be 'nice, patient, understanding Dad' when I'm trying to watch the match.
I’m exactly the same.
I fucking hate watching it with the family around me, I struggle very much be be 'nice, patient, understanding Dad' when I'm trying to watch the match.
I’m the same, I’d much rather watch on my own.
My missus hates me using the c word, and as I have no self control whatsoever, there’s my justification for locking myself away in another room to watch the Villa.

My kids steadfastly refuse to take any interest in football, and thus decide it time to play up every time I actually take control of the TV for once.
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: Flamingo Lane on March 05, 2021, 02:49:19 PM
I've noticed that BT commentators aren't as fussed as Sky are when it comes to apologising for the swearing.
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: VILLA MOLE on March 05, 2021, 02:58:47 PM
I fucking hate watching it with the family around me, I struggle very much be be 'nice, patient, understanding Dad' when I'm trying to watch the match.
I’m exactly the same.
I fucking hate watching it with the family around me, I struggle very much be be 'nice, patient, understanding Dad' when I'm trying to watch the match.
I’m the same, I’d much rather watch on my own.
My missus hates me using the c word, and as I have no self control whatsoever, there’s my justification for locking myself away in another room to watch the Villa.

My kids steadfastly refuse to take any interest in football, and thus decide it time to play up every time I actually take control of the TV for once.


This year I have become a  very angry and perpetual swearing machine  watching us .  The better we become the worse I behave 😳
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: VILLA MOLE on March 05, 2021, 02:59:49 PM
And why do people want to ask you questions when they are on. ,  duck off please
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: Drummond on March 05, 2021, 03:23:03 PM
More on topic I agree with CD that watching without any crowd noise is far better than the fake stuff which is just horrible.

Yep, the fake noise kills me inside. It's relentless, there just aren't the natural breaks and ebbs and flows you'd get in a real match and the 'reaction' sounds when something happens are worse than a computer game as they happen too late with either too much, or not enough, emphasis. It's shite.

I also hate it in those situations where you'd have a match on in the background and listening to the crowds helped you determine if it was worth looking up; pointless now.
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: Brend'Watkins on March 05, 2021, 03:25:24 PM
I fucking hate watching it with the family around me, I struggle very much be be 'nice, patient, understanding Dad' when I'm trying to watch the match.
I’m exactly the same.
I fucking hate watching it with the family around me, I struggle very much be be 'nice, patient, understanding Dad' when I'm trying to watch the match.
I’m the same, I’d much rather watch on my own.
My missus hates me using the c word, and as I have no self control whatsoever, there’s my justification for locking myself away in another room to watch the Villa.

My kids steadfastly refuse to take any interest in football, and thus decide it time to play up every time I actually take control of the TV for once.


This year I have become a  very angry and perpetual swearing machine  watching us .  The better we become the worse I behave 😳

Same here.  I really try and usually last about 20 minutes of absorbing the odd shit misplaced pass.  Then I get pushed over the edge by our inability to cross a ball over the first defender and it all comes out.  It's at this point I get the advice about the health of my heart and every time it's "if it makes you get into this state why watch it?" She's right on that one mind but it won't change anything.  I have reverted to watching it alone in the front room where I thought I would be able to express myself freely without being interrupted. It turns out not to be the case as I get visited and reminded that we have neighbours. I'm sure the neighbours know that Var is bollocks and the ref' is a biased cheating cnut and that McGinn will deserve the kick up the arse I'm going to administer for the next misplaced pass he makes.. I don't bother telling her this.
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: Drummond on March 05, 2021, 03:26:44 PM
I fucking hate watching it with the family around me, I struggle very much be be 'nice, patient, understanding Dad' when I'm trying to watch the match.
I’m exactly the same.
I fucking hate watching it with the family around me, I struggle very much be be 'nice, patient, understanding Dad' when I'm trying to watch the match.
I’m the same, I’d much rather watch on my own.
My missus hates me using the c word, and as I have no self control whatsoever, there’s my justification for locking myself away in another room to watch the Villa.

Thirded, my 6 year old is starting to be interested in football but he asks stupid questions when I'm trying to concentrate. Is that Grealish's free-kick, on repeat. Has he taken it yet? Which team is the one in yellow on? Why is it nil-nil still?
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: CT on March 05, 2021, 03:47:22 PM
It’s awful watching games with no crowds. Its crap, no matter how good the game is. It’s awful not being there full stop.

I’ve heard a few sound bites over the past few months suggesting fans maybe aren’t missed as much as some players would make out.

I’ve heard a couple of musicians this week saying they will probably carry on making a living but without touring anymore. Worrying for me as football and gigs are everything.
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: Kevin Dawson on March 05, 2021, 04:34:07 PM
It’s awful watching games with no crowds. Its crap, no matter how good the game is. It’s awful not being there full stop.

I’ve heard a few sound bites over the past few months suggesting fans maybe aren’t missed as much as some players would make out.

I’ve heard a couple of musicians this week saying they will probably carry on making a living but without touring anymore. Worrying for me as football and gigs are everything.


Oh I agree......my mental state has suffered significantly without my Villa Park fix....I miss the camaraderie, the friends, the idiots, the annoying people, everything.....
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: ChicagoLion on March 05, 2021, 05:09:18 PM
What do you mean by necessary?
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: Jon Crofts on March 05, 2021, 05:10:00 PM
I tend to swich the TV off at 85 minutes so I can beat the rush to the kettle to make tea.
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: Ian. on March 05, 2021, 05:15:52 PM
I’ve enjoyed watching football through this lockdown. I’ve been furloughed and home schooling so it’s been a welcome distraction. Normally I’d only ever watch a Villa match and nothing else would ever interest me at all. I hate the fake crowd but as I’ve watched all the matches illegally I have had no choice so just turn it down.

Football needs crowds though, it’s not the same at all. I’d really feel sorry for any attending supporter who gives up their time and money though as I really think VAR and the rule changes we’ve had would spoil it even more than it does while at home.

As regards the TV companies, they don’t really care much for the crowds, I think they quite like having matches at all times of the day and all the games played at different times.
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: West Derby Villan on March 05, 2021, 05:25:20 PM
Hope that when fans can get back into the stadiums and there is a return to “real atmosphere” a “no commentator or pundit” button can be added to matches shown on TV, some of the drivel that these so called experts go on about really boils my piss
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: Allan C on March 05, 2021, 05:52:26 PM
Nothing will ever beat being down Villa Park but I have to admit I’ve enjoyed the crowdless televised games. Like many others I prefer the fake crowd noise off and like listening to the players particularly Mings. I guess the real point is how the players feel playing in their equivalent of Perry Barr park on a Sunday morning. To be honest I haven't noticed them playing any worse without us being there
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: olaftab on March 05, 2021, 05:54:46 PM
What do you mean by necessary?
To survive, to be viable, to be an attractive product for TV.
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: Ads on March 05, 2021, 06:11:52 PM
Watching football on TV is absolutely shite. Crowdless games are total wank.
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on March 05, 2021, 06:13:51 PM
I miss the 'zoom ins' on a nice bit of totty. Especially if the match is crap.  :)

 Sweden v Brazil in a world cup group game where they both qualify for the knockout stage if its a draw.
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: CT on March 05, 2021, 06:15:38 PM
I haven’t even thought of that!

Starting tomorrow, I’ll get everyone else in the house to leave ten minutes before half time and come back in the room about five minutes into the second half.
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: Drummond on March 05, 2021, 06:16:37 PM
As someone who can't get to as many games as I'd like, this has been as good an opportunity as I've had to watch every match. There can't be many people who've watched every game home and away live. It's good to actually see matches as they happen, but shit regarding atmosphere. Plus, although I didn't get to a lot of games, I miss it. Nothing like a good sing-song and a couple of beers at a match too.
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: West Derby Villan on March 05, 2021, 06:17:36 PM
I haven’t even thought of that!

Starting tomorrow, I’ll get everyone else in the house to leave ten minutes before half time and come back in the room about five minutes into the second half.

But they must walk in front of the screen for it to be an authentic match day experience
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: exigo on March 05, 2021, 06:30:57 PM
Hope that when fans can get back into the stadiums and there is a return to “real atmosphere” a “no commentator or pundit” button can be added to matches shown on TV, some of the drivel that these so called experts go on about really boils my piss

I will be smashing down the gates to Villa Park very soon if I have to listen to any more Glenn F***ing Hoddle.
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 05, 2021, 06:49:11 PM
I don't mind the no crowd matches, except when it is on a channel that doesn't allow you to turn the shit pretend crowd noise off. I like hearing all the moaning and swearing.

Ha! Don't forget the number of commentator apologies, that's quite amusing too.  I'm actually surprised there's not more of it picked up.

The commentator apologies are annoying. Just do a warning before the match starts and leave it at that. If they've really got that much of a problem, make the viewer put in an access code at the start of the game.

Good idea, but make the code "CUNT".
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: CT on March 05, 2021, 06:51:19 PM
I don't mind the no crowd matches, except when it is on a channel that doesn't allow you to turn the shit pretend crowd noise off. I like hearing all the moaning and swearing.

Ha! Don't forget the number of commentator apologies, that's quite amusing too.  I'm actually surprised there's not more of it picked up.

The commentator apologies are annoying. Just do a warning before the match starts and leave it at that. If they've really got that much of a problem, make the viewer put in an access code at the start of the game.

Good idea, but make the code "CUNT".

Our apologies if you’ve read any industrial language there.
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on March 05, 2021, 06:53:55 PM
I don't mind the no crowd matches, except when it is on a channel that doesn't allow you to turn the shit pretend crowd noise off. I like hearing all the moaning and swearing.

Ha! Don't forget the number of commentator apologies, that's quite amusing too.  I'm actually surprised there's not more of it picked up.

The commentator apologies are annoying. Just do a warning before the match starts and leave it at that. If they've really got that much of a problem, make the viewer put in an access code at the start of the game.

Good idea, but make the code "CUNT".

Our apologies if you’ve read any industrial language there.

'Army language' my mother used to call it.
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: Bad English on March 06, 2021, 07:50:09 AM
I tend to swich the TV off at 85 minutes so I can beat the rush to the kettle to make tea.
Ah yes, 'beating the graphics'. Avoiding all the tedious computer-aided post-match 'analysis'.
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: Meanwood Villa on March 06, 2021, 08:37:50 AM
Matches without crowds only exist because of the unique circumstances we find ourselves in. As soon as crowds are allowed back the clubs will welcome them and people will go. Possible consequences from this situation are more televised games including at 3 on Saturday, individual clubs bidding for TV rights (which would be a disaster),  maybe playing games overseas might gain some traction (although this is a long shot I think)

In terms of me personally, the way I watch football has completely changed. In a "normal" season I would attend around 10 matches, watch us at the pub when we were on TV  (maybe another 10) and for the remainder, 3 pm Saturday kick offs for example, I'd happily follow it online or watching final score or the like. Post lockdown I have watched every single match barring a couple. I can't wait until I go back to a match in person for so many reasons but will I miss the regular TV appointment with the team I get at the moment?
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: algy on March 06, 2021, 09:47:47 AM
Matches without crowds only exist because of the unique circumstances we find ourselves in. As soon as crowds are allowed back the clubs will welcome them and people will go. Possible consequences from this situation are more televised games including at 3 on Saturday, individual clubs bidding for TV rights (which would be a disaster),  maybe playing games overseas might gain some traction (although this is a long shot I think)

In terms of me personally, the way I watch football has completely changed. In a "normal" season I would attend around 10 matches, watch us at the pub when we were on TV  (maybe another 10) and for the remainder, 3 pm Saturday kick offs for example, I'd happily follow it online or watching final score or the like. Post lockdown I have watched every single match barring a couple. I can't wait until I go back to a match in person for so many reasons but will I miss the regular TV appointment with the team I get at the moment?
Yeah, my thoughts exactly. Tho I think 3pm Saturday will be off limits once fans return to protect the lower leagues a bit.

I'm similar though. Living up in North Wales now I can't get to B6 as often as I used to. It's been nice being able to watch as many games as I have on telly. It's no substitute for being there ... but it is nice being able to watch it, have a bit of a chat with my dad whilst the game's going on, teach my kids right (Villa) from wrong (not Villa), ...
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: eamonn on March 06, 2021, 10:51:51 AM
Wow, CD breached the word censor/filter somehow
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 06, 2021, 11:04:46 AM
Grass!
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: RamboandBruno on March 06, 2021, 11:06:31 AM
It’s interesting all the comments in this thread are coming from our point of view as supporters. The TV companies, premier league and the money men, I’m not sure give as much as shite about fans being there as they make out. The football being on the TV constantly has kept me going, something to look forwards to, has driven my wife mad though. But it has also opened the Pandora’s box a bit to a new way of broadcasting football. I know loads of people watch the games illegally, I’ve ended up slowly but surely subscribing to everything, BT sport, Amazon prime etc. It will be interesting how much of these subscriptions fall away or stay constant when fans are allowed back in. The way games are on all the time now, will be hard to let go for the broadcasters and you only have to look at the results coming in at 4.45pm now on a Saturday  (traditionally a time I love on a Saturday) to see how the fragmentation of premier league games has escalated in lockdown, there’s what maybe two games now on Saturday at 3pm. I’m not sure the fans being back will change this and it’s a couple of steps removed from games being played at silly o’clock to meet the demands on say the far east market on different time zones.
I think the money men running the premier league will unfortunately be coming to the conclusion they don’t need us in the ground as much as we need to be in the ground. I suppose there is the factor of the prime assets, the players, who surely hate playing in empty stadiums.
Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: Pete3206 on March 06, 2021, 03:00:23 PM
I've watched one match not involving Villa or England and that was Newcastle Wolves last week. I was bored shitless.

Football is nothing without fans.



Title: Re: Are fans in grounds necessary for elite football?
Post by: cdbearsfan on March 06, 2021, 03:10:50 PM
I'm sure there have probably been plenty of great games without fans and plenty of shit ones with fans present. Especially if Steve Bruce is managing one of the teams.
SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal