Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Steve67 on February 21, 2021, 04:13:38 PM
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Really poor first half. Better second half.
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We just didn’t look up for it even after we scored. Leicester looked comfortable throughout. We only looked decent after the subs. I’d have Ramsay, Sanson and Marvellous starting next week. It’s not as if we looked great before today. We haven’t
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Silly Smith stubbornly selecting Barkley instead of Nakamba lost us the game.
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You'd think they'd be keen to prove that they're not a one-man team.
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A painful first half performance cost us the game, huge gaps appeared between the defence and midfield and was so evident the shape of the team should have been changed sooner. Targett was excellent but to be honest Leicester were the best team and the majority of fans before the game expected them to win. Would like to see Ramsey and Sanson start in midfield for the next game because the McGinn and Barkley pairing isn’t working very well at the moment.
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Meh. They were mostly excellent, we were mostly below par.
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Meh. They were mostly excellent, we were mostly below par.
I didn't think Leicester were anything like their best today to be honest
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Leicester clearly tired and were there for the taking second half but Smith made the changes too late again.
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Definitely Ramsey and Sanson to start next week.
I’d drop Ross and McGinn.
Also I think times up for AEG and Trez. I play the kids instead.
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I can't understand what Smith thought was going to happen in the 15-20 minutes between the time he should have used his subs and the time when he actually did. Barkley really shouldn't start again.
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Ollie has to get some support for all the knock downs he gets if we are to progress.
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First half was a disgrace. Second half was marginally better.
The midfield trio are a problem at the moment, they have no energy or drive. We can’t keep picking the same midfield if it’s not doing the job.
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Leicester looked tired and beatable last half an hour - shame we gave them a 2 goal start and waited too long to change things.
We're not going down, we're not getting top 4 with a lack of squad depth. Time to give the likes of Ramsey and Sanson a run, they can't be any worse than Barkley, and McGinn and Luiz have been below par for a while too. It will still have been a good season.
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I think we showed a fair bit of fight last hour. Hopefully this is enough to see us pick up points in some of the upcoming games without Jack.
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Expected a cricket score when they scored the second, so was genuinely pleased that we didn’t capitulate and made a fight of it.
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We have 1 formation, 1 way of playing and 1 genius, when it works its fantastic to watch, when teams nulify one or both then we are a drag with no idea how to change it.
Both goals were naff to conceed, Maddison given the freedom of Villa Park for the first, our DM's were miles away from him, McGinn on the left wing and I dont know were Dougie was.
Trezeguet, I've seen nothing from the moment he first kicked a ball for us to suggest he's anywhere near this level, an absolute mule.
Ramsey and Sanson have to be starting going forwards.
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I would say that Nakamba should feel a bit miffed. The last twice he has played he has been tidy at least and very solid at best. Just what the midfield needs at the moment.
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Leicester clearly tired and were there for the taking second half but Smith made the changes too late again.
This 100%.
Deano cost us 3 points today. :(
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https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/12224997/madisson-barnes-shine-as-foxes-beat-villa
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Leicester clearly tired and were there for the taking second half but Smith made the changes too late again.
This 100%.
Deano cost us 3 points today. :(
Is he stubborn or just not astute enough ?
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Negatives
The first half. So passive, so much space. Was that Grealish not being there meaning we lacked confidence? I'm not sure. That was a continuation of Brighton, only Brighton are terrible and Leicester are very good.
Felt Konsa positional wise was a bit suspect at times.
Elmo was as poor as everybody feared. Both centre halves need to get out quicker to Maddison, but why is Elmo stood off Barnes? Why doesn't he close him, allowing him two touches to find Maddison? Why doesn't he react after the shot? Ball watching and if Cash plays, that doesn't happen.
Their second goal shouldn't have stood, as it was a foul throw, the foot is raised off the ground.
Barkely is an absolute passenger. Off the ball, he leaves gaps, doesn't close and ambles.
El Ghazi, a Championship player.
Positives
It was nowhere near as bad as I and others prophesied. 2nd half was much better, as we competed at least.
Mings kept Vardy quiet. Targett got further up the pitch a lot more 2nd half and we looked more useful. Not creative enough, but felt we stopped them having any real chances of note 2nd period.
Ramsey and Sanson were infinitely more dynamic. Felt sorry for McGinn having to be a 1 man press. But those pair offered legs and effort, which are bare requirements, but looked miles ahead of what they replaced.
Think its time for us to go with a flatter 2 in midfield, with Dougie anchoring behind a pair. Sansom in for me and Ramsey has to be knocking at the door too.
Not good enough, plenty to work on. Wonder if that was a bit Southampton 2nd half?
Taken it pretty well, as Leicester are a very good side and to be honest, we are where we will likely finish, which would be an excellent season.
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That was poor, very poor. Would be a real shame if the good work in the first half of the season was wasted.
Dean has to be ruthless in his selection now. Absolutely no Barkley.
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That's about as good as I expected.
The quality & options other than the starting 11 isn't good enough. We'll add those options over the summer & ensure there's pressure on everyone to keep the shirt. There's hopefully a raft of young energetic players coming through also.
We need to see the bigger picture. We've come a long way over 2 years. In 2-3 years we'll be competing at the top table, we just need to be patient.
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DS needs to learn to rotate more. Nakamba has given more protection to the defence in the last couple of games he's played. Sanson should've started and maybe Ramsey. Change it!
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Maybe Marvellous would have plugged the whole in midfield that Leicester just kept running through in the first half. Second half was better. We were more positive. Even with Jack though, they would have been better than us. I thought Barkley did okay today and had a right to be miffed when taken off.
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Barkley HAS to be dropped. I wouldn’t even bench him next game after that performance and response to being subbed...
Doug, Sanson and McGinn for me next game. But Dean really needs to take the shackles off McGinn.... he is NOT an anchoring midfielder.
Played well after 75mins after hooking Ross - Sanson or Ramsay need to be starting in place of him for the foreseeable.
If we get Hause or Engels back fit, also push Konsa out to RB until Cash is back. Love Elmo, but his time is up.
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Wrong team choice cost us today.
You saw that spark that Ramsey and Sanson added when the came on.
Trez is (still) like watching a territorial chicken running around.
With the right team selection and rotation, we could have won that today.
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I think it shows, despite how far we have come in such a short time, just how far we still have to go to compete at the top end of this league. Leicester are proof that it can be done however.
During our three year absence, teams such as these have taken massive strides forward and we are making up for probably 10 years of neglect, poor management and poor recruitment.
I’m still confident the future is much brighter.
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That second half showed us something, its a straw and I'm clutching it. Our biggest problem is the midfield three, lacking in drive and ambition and precision, Barkley was poor and a passenger again and McGinn and Luiz sloppy and wasteful. Dean needs to drop 1, 2 or all 3 of them for the next game as well. We all feared what would happen to Elmo and we weren't disappointed, he got better as the game progressed but Leicester were out of sight by then. Thought Bert showed some lovely touches once he got in the game. Watkins his usual self, Mings utterly superb and had Vardy in his back pocket. El Ghazi, meh as ever. Think Dean is a bit passive at the moment with his game plans and subs, he needs to up the ante. The ridiculous thing is Rogers tactical masterclass seemed to involve parking the bus for the last half an hour and gift us a point we didn't deserve. We're getting closer to this lot, 4-1 last season at home and utterly outclassed, 2-1 this season and felt we were marginally better in terms of our performance.
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Without Jack we've still got four or five very good players in Martinez, Mings, Konsa, Targett and Watkins. The rest are all either out of form, out of position or both. Then there's Barkley, who is all of the following - overrated, unfit, not trying and by far the worst of all, a massive sulking man baby.
McGinn is not a defensive midfieder in a million years, and Elmo isn't a Premier League quality right back. The three wide players in Traore, El Ghazi and Trezeguet are all infuriating to watch. Graft and hard work from Trez but no skill or end product. Sublime moments from Traore but an absolute defensive liability, and El Ghazi is a goal scoring machine 10% of the time, but a hopeless pub player for the other 90%.
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My ratings
Martinez 7
Elmo 6.5
Konsa 6
Mings 6.5
Targett 7
Douglas 5.5
McGinn 6
Barkley 5.5
Traore 7
Watkins 7
Subs
Trezeguet 6
Ramsey 7. Energy
Sanson 6
First half 5/10. Sluggish, on and off the ball conceded 2 goals.
Second half 6.5/10 Early promise with goal and better than 1st half
Could have a point in game and wouldn't have been a wrong result given improved effort.
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I really think we could have got something from that game if we’d put the right starting eleven out or made the right subs at the right time. The midfield is really poor at the moment. Dean MUST get this right, starting in the next game. Oh and just send Barkley back now, he isn’t what we need!!
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Midfield has floundered since 2nd half at Burnley. Very surprised and disappointed that a minimum 2 out of the Marv / Sanson/ Ramsey trio didn’t start today.
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There's no doubt we are into our traditional, annual rut now. One of the things that happens here was evident today, whereby whenever we get the ball, the team just stand and watch the player in possession instead of making runs, moving into space etc.
Another thing, is that McGinn, Trez and Barkley all look less than 100% fit still. They're running through treacle at the moment.
The way Dean described Jack's injury ("we're optimistic it's not a long term.one") has me worried he's going to be out for a while. If Barkely can't play on the left of the three, then we should try Watkins there and Davis in the Heskey role.
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No surprise or complaints with the result, a poor team selection ensured that. The good news is we do have credible alternatives to replace the passengers that this side have been carrying since the beginning of January.
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Leicester looked tired and beatable last half an hour - shame we gave them a 2 goal start and waited too long to change things.
We're not going down, we're not getting top 4 with a lack of squad depth. Time to give the likes of Ramsey and Sanson a run, they can't be any worse than Barkley, and McGinn and Luiz have been below par for a while too. It will still have been a good season.
Agreed on all of this.
When we scored, I could understand a period of consolidation, but we played without enough tempo thereafter and the 3 midfielders have not been performing well since we resumed from the Covid break.
Also, yet again Smith never tries a different formation. Substitutions are always just players exchanged into the same positions.
Surely there could be some tactical adaptations so the team can try something different.
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I thought it could be 5 or 6 with the way they started the game and after they went to 2-0 up, so strangely although I hate it when we lose, don’t feel that deflated. Other than Man City, that first half performance by them, despite our deficiencies, is the best performance against us all season, they totally bossed it from the first minute.
Second half we got the early goal, but for the next 15 minutes still lacked energy and urgency, this only changed when Sanson and Ramsey came on. Because they did the basics, like run around and worked hard, they helped carry us 10 yards up the pitch and we possibly could of snatched an unlikely draw out of it.
There is now no justification for starting Barkley next game, and with the pressing game Leeds play, he will be a liability. there are two options, the first which I think Smith will go for as he can keep his preferred shape, is McGinn in the Barkley role and Sanson alongside Dougie. With Trez in for Ghazi, just for his work rate alone. Alternatively and I’d doubt he’ll do this, put Ramsey in the Barkley role, McGinn on the right and Sanson alongside Dougie.
Bit deflated but not the end of the world. If he goes for option one, at least we know Ramsey can come in if McGinns not performing.
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Midfield has floundered since 2nd half at Burnley. Very surprised and disappointed that a minimum 2 out of the Marv / Sanson/ Ramsey trio didn’t start today.
I agree with this but we can't let Burnley's life sucking game plan define our season. We're better than that.
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Stupid decision to let Freddie go out on loan! Is he really worse than Elmo?
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My ratings
Martinez 7
Elmo 6.5
Konsa 6
Mings 6.5
Targett 7
Douglas 5.5
McGinn 6
Barkley 5.5
Traore 7
Watkins 7
Subs
Trezeguet 6
Ramsey 7. Energy
Sanson 6
First half 5/10. Sluggish, on and off the ball conceded 2 goals.
Second half 6.5/10 Early promise with goal and better than 1st half
Could have a point in game and wouldn't have been a wrong result given improved effort.
Martínez has been great this season, but you've been generous today...and with the marks for the midfield.
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Team selection handed Leicester the game.
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Martinez 4, Elmo 4, Konsa 5, Mings 7, Targett 7, Luiz 4, McGinn 6, Barkley 1, Traore 5, Watkins 6, AEG 5. Subs AEG 5, Ramsey 6, Sanson 6. Smith 3
Dreadful display, even after an early goal in the second half we never really looked like getting an equaliser against a visibly tiring Leicester. We are in a real rut performance wise for weeks now. So much wrong with the team selection (Traore and Barkley starting left us wide open to their counter press as many of us said pre-game).
Smith has failed to manage his "big name" players, Luiz dropped for one game but has been woeful since getting back in. Agreed on all the comments re Barkley, a complete disgrace but one Smith has enabled. Traore, a goal and a nice touch or two but a complete liability out of possession. Elmo sadly miles out of his depth. Keeper poor, Konsa torn a new one by Vardy's movement. Thought McGinn and Mings stepped it up in the second half, both Ramsey and Sanson looked lively late on.
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We did well to only lose by one. A couple of shockers there by Barkley and mcginn
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Very generous rating for Barkley.
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I think with a few windows we can be as good as Leicester and with a Vardy shaped hole about to appear up front for them in the next 18 months, surpass them
I do think Sanson will start against Leeds and that we'll go with something different. Nakamba, Ramsey and Sanson would all probably improve us.
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It was always going to be difficult missing Cash on the right and Grealish on the left. Needed to have started more defensively with the changes. We managed to gift them two goals before we got going. Why do we always look better when Barkley is taken off ? Ramsey and Samson get to balls he just looks at and both close down much better. Then the rest seem more comfortable.
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Stupid decision to let Freddie go out on loan! Is he really worse than Elmo?
No, and he plays similar to Cash. Its one that I cant get my head around.
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I think with a few windows we can be as good as Leicester and with a Vardy shaped hole about to appear up front for them in the next 18 months, surpass them
I do think Sanson will start against Leeds and that we'll go with something different. Nakamba, Ramsey and Sanson would all probably improve us.
I'd agree with that Ads, the gap in quality is narrowing. I just can't see Smith changing all 3 midfielders in one go though they are living on borrowed time.
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Luiz and Barkley have to be dropped against Leeds - their form is so bad, it's beyond comical. The midfield looked so much better without them. It's clear as day that Ramsey and Sanson need to be starters.
Trezeguet for me is one of the most ineffective substitutions in the league, he does everything wrong most of time. I can't think of a single league game he's changed coming on from the bench. He's okay at combating the opposition attack on the right and nothing more.
El Ghazi is a complete waste of space. He needs to be told to find a new club in the summer and when some of us have lost no sleep whatsoever at the possibility of losing him we then should be giving Leipzig a call for his replacement, Lookman.
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I think with a few windows we can be as good as Leicester and with a Vardy shaped hole about to appear up front for them in the next 18 months, surpass them
I do think Sanson will start against Leeds and that we'll go with something different. Nakamba, Ramsey and Sanson would all probably improve us.
I'd agree with that Ads, the gap in quality is narrowing. I just can't see Smith changing all 3 midfielders in one go though they are living on borrowed time.
No neither can I. But I think McGinn worked very hard today and was let down badly by others. Gaps appeared because he would press and others didn't, which made him look poor unfairly.
If Dougie screens, fine, but let's have a pair of runners competing off the ball and on it at 100mph and closing. We cannot have those gaps. Would love to find a role for Ramsey too, but I dont want a diamond against Leeds and expose Elmo.
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My ratings
Martinez 7
Elmo 6.5
Konsa 6
Mings 6.5
Targett 7
Douglas 5.5
McGinn 6
Barkley 5.5
Traore 7
Watkins 7
Subs
Trezeguet 6
Ramsey 7. Energy
Sanson 6
First half 5/10. Sluggish, on and off the ball conceded 2 goals.
Second half 6.5/10 Early promise with goal and better than 1st half
Could have a point in game and wouldn't have been a wrong result given improved effort.
I joked pre-kick off we were only starting with nine players but from the above it was actually 10.
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A disappointing but predictable result. Ist half poor. I had no idea where Barkley was playing. Maddison is the player that Barkley can only ever dream to be. He was totally ineffective but tbf so were Luiz and McGinn. When Jack plays the opposition put 2 players on him. Maddison had the freedom of the park. There is no cohesion between our midfield 3 and there is too much of a gap between our defence and the midfield which Leicester took advantage of. Nakamba would have done a job in there today. I saw an improvement in the 1st 20 mins of the 2nd half (I had to leave watching the game at that stage) but you can't give Leicester a 2 goal start. Schmeichel was a cnut when Traore scored. Targett and Ollie were the best of our players today.
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I think with a few windows we can be as good as Leicester and with a Vardy shaped hole about to appear up front for them in the next 18 months, surpass them
I do think Sanson will start against Leeds and that we'll go with something different. Nakamba, Ramsey and Sanson would all probably improve us.
I'd agree with that Ads, the gap in quality is narrowing. I just can't see Smith changing all 3 midfielders in one go though they are living on borrowed time.
No neither can I. But I think McGinn worked very hard today and was let down badly by others. Gaps appeared because he would press and others didn't, which made him look poor unfairly.
If Dougie screens, fine, but let's have a pair of runners competing off the ball and on it at 100mph and closing. We cannot have those gaps. Would love to find a role for Ramsey too, but I dont want a diamond against Leeds and expose Elmo.
Yep if we thought Barnes was a handful against Elmo today though he did get more of a grip of him as he got up to match speed its the same next week with Harrison who gave Cash a torrid time at VP. He's got to do something with this midfield shape, its just not working currently.
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It was a performance from last season when we nearly went down
I know we can take comfort and say well we’re eighth not going down plenty of points
Look how far we’ve come etc
But we should always be about where we’re going not where we’ve come from
If we want to get into the top six we have to make better choices and not just keep saying oh well we’re doing better than we thought we would
I’ve said a million times on here we’re the biggest club in the Midlands by Miles and the Second richest in the premiership
Going into the form of a bottom half prem team when we lose our best player isn’t good enough anymore
I don’t want to settle for mediocre or average I want us to push on
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I try to look at positives rather than blame Barkley for everything. It’s been a great season so far and we’re still 8th, yes 8th. We’re not going down. I think Ramsey Is going to be a fabulous player for us next season and maybe the way Smith is using him at the moment will benefit him next year. Sanson too looks great but is possibly not yet up to PL pace, again a purchase for next season. The management team will bring in quality for next season to improve the squad which at the moment is not up to PL standards. Leicester are quality but we’re getting there
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First half was laughably bad, second half was better but earlier substitutions could have grabbed us a point, or more. Barkley should never play for Villa again, a complete lack of respect when he came off, Smith needs to make an example of him. Trez isnt prem quality, El Mohamedy long past his best and letting Guilbert go on loan a massive mistake. Get Hause fit and push Konza to right back. Midfield needs a massive shake up, Ramsey looks ready to perform at the top and we not going down, get him in. Disappointing but not unexpected as last few weeks have seen poor levels creeping back in. Anyway, time for Erdingers and XTC.
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My ratings
Martinez 7
Elmo 6.5
Konsa 6
Mings 6.5
Targett 7
Douglas 5.5
McGinn 6
Barkley 5.5
Traore 7
Watkins 7
Subs
Trezeguet 6
Ramsey 7. Energy
Sanson 6
First half 5/10. Sluggish, on and off the ball conceded 2 goals.
Second half 6.5/10 Early promise with goal and better than 1st half
Could have a point in game and wouldn't have been a wrong result given improved effort.
I joked pre-kick off we were only starting with nine players but from the above it was actually 10.
Oh my AEG . Just a 6 today maybe even 5.5.as he was subbed Felt hard lines he was taken off would taken any of midfield 3 off instead as first change. Or even Davis on and Watkins wide left.
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We'll need much more energy in the team against Leeds. Sanson & Ramsey in for Barkley & El Ghazi.
We need not worry about Man City coming in for Luis. But he needs some support around him....
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We'll need much more energy in the team against Leeds. Sanson & Ramsey in for Barkley & El Ghazi.
We need not worry about Man City coming in for Luis. But he needs some support around him....
Agree, John. In defence of Dougie he did play most of the game on a yellow.
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I can't agree with that. While I absolutely think a club like ours ought to be competing in the top 6, you have to have regard for context. A top half finish would be an excellent return. We will invest and we will go again.
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I try to look at positives rather than blame Barkley for everything. It’s been a great season so far and we’re still 8th, yes 8th. We’re not going down. I think Ramsey Is going to be a fabulous player for us next season and maybe the way Smith is using him at the moment will benefit him next year. Sanson too looks great but is possibly not yet up to PL pace, again a purchase for next season. The management team will bring in quality for next season to improve the squad which at the moment is not up to PL standards. Leicester are quality but we’re getting there
Yeah, I see Sanson as essentially a signing for next season - he'll just be comfortably bedded in. Likewise Ramsey I see as a player who is being integrated in to the side without putting undue pressure on him.
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I can't agree with that. While I absolutely think a club like ours ought to be competing in the top 6, you have to have regard for context. A top half finish would be an excellent return. We will invest and we will go again.
I can't agree with that. While I absolutely think a club like ours ought to be competing in the top 6, you have to have regard for context. A top half finish would be an excellent return. We will invest and we will go again.
Yep agreed. We’ve made a big step forward this season, but we’re not going to go from scraping survival to established top 6 just like that. We still need to strengthen the squad and Dean needs to show he can use that squad.
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they are second and probably deserve to be.
9 away wins
We are better than we imagined we would be, but the goals are not as prolific as they were.
Jack is an undoubtable miss when out.
To move on we need some creative midfielders and more forward options.
I would give Barkley his train fare back to London, ambles around , either breaks up / slows up play or loses possession.
Then throws his toys out when subbed
Ramsey and Marvellous to start next week
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When he played against Liverpool he was forceful and powerfully going forward and we do not see that nearly enough to justify playing him. If he was like that all the time he’s some player.
At the moment it’s like starting the game with ten men.
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Stupid decision to let Freddie go out on loan! Is he really worse than Elmo?
No, and he plays similar to Cash. Its one that I cant get my head around.
And for the most part was decent last season
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It was a performance from last season when we nearly went down
I know we can take comfort and say well we’re eighth not going down plenty of points
Look how far we’ve come etc
But we should always be about where we’re going not where we’ve come from
If we want to get into the top six we have to make better choices and not just keep saying oh well we’re doing better than we thought we would
I’ve said a million times on here we’re the biggest club in the Midlands by Miles and the Second richest in the premiership
Going into the form of a bottom half prem team when we lose our best player isn’t good enough anymore
I don’t want to settle for mediocre or average I want us to push on
Agree with this.
It's a bottom half mentality to just think we're hardly capable of winning any games if Jack is out. Reminds me of Palace who plod along and then lose game after game after game whenever Zaha is injured. They'll finish 14-16th this season. We're much better than that.
In fairness I didn't expect much today as Leicester are a top team nowadays who have signed superbly over last three years and still have a few of their title winners around to add experience so perfect mix and one of our most difficult games all season.
Next few weeks we play Newcastle, Wolves and Sheffield United so it's not some impossible fixture list without Jack so I don't think we should just accept us completely falling off in form like in previous seasons.
We do actually have some decent players in final third now so we just need to remodel the midfield a bit into more hardworking and solid unit and I reckon we'll be o.k.
Not on this site but seen a few elsewhere say they'd be happy finishing 14th ffs. Maybe in September.
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Silly Smith stubbornly selecting Barkley instead of Nakamba lost us the game.
NaKamba either plays instead of Luiz or not at all In my view
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For some reason Barkley is not the player he was at the start of the season. Pure speculation but I do wonder whether following the Sanson signing he has geen told he will not be signed in the summer? Whatever the reason he should not be starting at the moment.
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For some reason Barkley is not the player he was at the start of the season. Pure speculation but I do wonder whether following the Sanson signing he has geen told he will not be signed in the summer? Whatever the reason he should not be starting at the moment.
Maybe not told he won’t be signed but has come to the same conclusion
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Other than the crazy shot at the end I thought McGinn played ok today particularly after Barkley had gone off and Ramsay and Sanson were doing the running
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I can't agree with that. While I absolutely think a club like ours ought to be competing in the top 6, you have to have regard for context. A top half finish would be an excellent return. We will invest and we will go again.
Absolutely this. We shouldn’t get too high when we win or down when we lose. Two years ago we were struggling in the championship about to go on a ridiculous run for promotion, and here we are, two years later, disappointed not to be in the top 7 of the premier league. Let’s see where we are in May but we’ve come on leaps and bounds. Owners will spend again and it’ll be time to move on the likes of El Ghazi, Trezeguet, El Mohamady, Taylor and , Nakamba potentially, and bring in some real quality that, when we lose some key players, can slot in and perform as well.
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We didn’t get Southamptoned. It looked like we might. A 2-1 loss vs Leicester in the end after a very poor start is a decent result even though we lost.
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For some reason Barkley is not the player he was at the start of the season. Pure speculation but I do wonder whether following the
Sanson signing he has geen told he will not be signed in the summer? Whatever the reason he should not be starting at the moment.
He just isn't that good.
He's a slightly above average player on a good day.
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Not read through comments so will probably be rehashing previous opinions but after half hour I fully expected to be on the end of 5 or 6 so was pleased that we made a game of it.
Thought McGinn, Mings & Targett all had very decent games & Watkins as ever was a willing runner. Sanson & Ramsey added plenty of effort when they came on.
I’m not sure without Jack we are good enough yet to start playing 433 against one of the best sides in the league because the wingers were passengers until literally the moment Traore scored. Add this to Barkley being a 3rd passenger it was difficult to see us getting anything out of the game.
Barkley is a big concern, now we are not in the 2 games a week cycle I’m not sure he has the excuse that he is returning from injury - for me today he was playing walking football with no fire in the belly & should have been hooked at half time. For a player on loan because he wasn’t getting football at his parent club he doesn’t appear to have the desire ram it down Chelsea’s throat & show them that he deserves a chance to go back & get in the side. With Jack being out he had the chance to grab the limelight & be the star, first audition in the role was an epic failure. He certainly shouldn’t start next week, particularly as it is a side whose
chief attribute is running but hopefully he realises that he has to up his game substantially & does so for rest of season.
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For some reason Barkley is not the player he was at the start of the season. Pure speculation but I do wonder whether following the Sanson signing he has geen told he will not be signed in the summer? Whatever the reason he should not be starting at the moment.
Maybe so but you’d think he’d still do his best to make Chelsea think he could be part of their plans or to impress a potential buyer. He’s doing neither atm. For a hefty loan fee I want more and can only think that it contains a must play clause.
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First half we just looked sorry for ourselves because of the absence of Jack. Barkley was the only one who didn’t...he just looked his usual self, slow and uninvolved. 2nd half saw an improvement when the subs came on. They should have had the whole 45 mins. Good to see Traore scoring again and to see a return of the shank.
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We are not making the best out of the squad we have got. We almost threw the match today with that line up.
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We are not making the best out of the squad we have got. We almost threw the match today with that line up.
what line-up do you think wouldn't have thrown that match?
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We are not making the best out of the squad we have got. We almost threw the match today with that line up.
what line-up do you think wouldn't have thrown that match?
There were plenty of alternatives on the pre match thread which did not involve playing Barkley but did include Ramsey and Sanson.
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First-half crap, second-half less crap.
Barkley's recent performances have been absolute garbage and he's now managed to augment that with a questionable attitude. It's time for him to sit on the bench.
SJM trys but it's not been good enough from him either lately. Start Ramsey and Sanson.
Luiz is the other question mark, but I think he has done enough to stay in the first XI for now.
Konsa is experiencing a dip in form, hope he turns it around quickly.
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Disappointed bad first half better second I managed to chuck my phone at the wall in the first half now that's going to cost me.
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Ross is starting to piss me off. Can deal with poor performances occasionally but the attitude doesnt seem quite right. Perhaps he thinks he is better than he actually is. Time for a look in the mirror Ross and a reality check.
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Ross is starting to piss me off. Can deal with poor performances occasionally but the attitude doesnt seem quite right. Perhaps he thinks he is better than he actually is. Time for a look in the mirror Ross and a reality check.
The thing is I see a better player in both Ramsey and Sanson.
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We're back to having one half-decent half of football and one terrible one and giving up too many shots. Leicester noticeably tired second half , if we were still in touch we could have got a result but yet again we start a game at 5 miles per hour and let the opposition get all over us. Smith needs to tweak the formation and starting line up, it's not good enough going week in week out the same way. XPG are way down.
It's looking like Grealish will be out for a month or so and the season will peter out. A good start but failed to push on, not flexible enough.
I think ultimately, to progress back in to the upper echelons we will need a more astute manager. That's for another season.
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Perhaps we just avoid players called Ross from now on.
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In a post-match report on Pravda, Dean Smith is quoted as saying “You have to earn the right to play sometimes".
Why the fuck did he pick Barkley today then?
Supplementary question: Will DS be dropping Barkley who has earned the right to watch the game from the Upper Trinity, if not his own living-room?
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We are not making the best out of the squad we have got. We almost threw the match today with that line up.
The midfield has looked slow and laboured in the past few games and there should have been changes today. We looked far more energetic in there when Barkley and Luiz went off and there siurely now have to be changes for the next game.
We are still short of quality in some areas of the squad and thoght that showed today.
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I am not watching any sports channels on TV as I do not want to see Rodgers face.
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Disappointed bad first half better second I managed to chuck my phone at the wall in the first half now that's going to cost me.
Wow...this means we were really really shit.
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Perhaps we just avoid players called Ross from now on.
Lol 😂 Great idea !!!
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We’ve done really well this season. Whatever happens between now and May, we know we’ve made tons of progress and have a platform for further success next season. We also know that today’s opponents are on a fantastic run of games, particularly away from home.
For me, today’s game was lost in Smith’s selection: I argued beforehand for a less open set-up, one where we fielded 4 MF, with Traore and Watkins upfront running the lines. I believe that – had we done so – we’d not have been so loose early on in the game.
Looking at the Guardian website stats, we matched Leicester pretty much in all aspects other than shots on target; but we failed to defend effectively and individual errors led to our defeat. Our ball retention was awful first half and we did not do the basics very well at all.
Barkley is not a great player, and Elmo lacks the sharpness to deal with rising stars like Barnes. AEG continues to be frustrating – he clearly has talent but his contribution to a game is too low for this league. Trez was shown up when he came on. I don’t want to appear too critical but I also think Luiz is deteriorating as the season progresses.
The positives: Targett has developed into an excellent player – his cross for Traore was sublime. Mings played well today, and I thought McGinn did alright after a slow start. Ramsey brought real energy and simplicity into our game and Morgan looks very tidy.
I would love to see Ramsey starting ahead of Barkley – frankly, he deserves to – and I’d be interested in resting Luiz in favour of Sanson; but I suspect Nakamba is seen as the like-for-like with Luiz.
The big challenge to Smith is to find variety on our play and to be more attuned to the particular needs of each individual game.
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Triple swap of Sanson, Ramsey and Trezeguet for the next game. Luiz, El Ghazi and Barkley out.
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Disappointed bad first half better second I managed to chuck my phone at the wall in the first half now that's going to cost me.
Before mobiles it was a case of walk in the house at 6pm on saturday and kick the cat. Billy McNeill nearly got reported to the RSPCA
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First half midfield and attack did look unsure and didnt get going cause they their leader wasnt there. Second half they did show they could play and be Aston Villa without Grealish - that was good to see.
Leicester are a good team at the momnet.
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I'm still seething after that performance today, with players and management. It was a great opportunity to address some recent poor performances against a team who had played in Europe on Thursday. Missing Jack so the perfect time for some of the under performing players to step out of his shadow. Big show of faith shown by Smith in the likes of Barkley and Luiz.
But all the old failings were there, right from the team selection, to the same laziness in midfield, the timing of the substitutions, the same lazy like for like change, more petulance from Barkley, never really turning the screw on Leicester until late on.
We are in danger of falling away badly I feel based on recent performances and the absence of our one true quality player.
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I'm still seething after that performance today, with players and management. It was a great opportunity to address some recent poor performances against a team who had played in Europe on Thursday. Missing Jack so the perfect time for some of the under performing players to step out of his shadow. Big show of faith shown by Smith in the likes of Barkley and Luiz.
But all the old failings were there, right from the team selection, to the same laziness in midfield, the timing of the substitutions, the same lazy like for like change, more petulance from Barkley, never really turning the screw on Leicester until late on.
We are in danger of falling away badly I feel based on recent performances and the absence of our one true quality player.
We’ve done really well this season. Whatever happens between now and May, we know we’ve made tons of progress and have a platform for further success next season. We also know that today’s opponents are on a fantastic run of games, particularly away from home.
It's not all bad.
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I really don't want Barkley near the team again. He doesn't need a boot up the bottom, he needs kicking back to Chelsea - where he will never play. He's shocking. Such a poor attitude says to other players that it's ok to not bother.
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After Drinkwater we should have been more cautious what we take off Chelsea.
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But Barkley was great in his first few games. I wonder if he has been told we can't afford to buy him, so he's no longer playing for a move.
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Then he shouldn't be starting.
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I think it’s more likely he’s struggled to get back to full fitness after his injury.
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I think he looked good first couple of matches. Since then, plus injury, he has done nothing.
The petulance is to show Dean that he is not happy so needs to be picked for the next match.
When we play Leeds, I think Dean ought to send him to play Sheffield. I doubt he would catch on, not the brightest thing out there. Plus, tell Chelsea, if they pay us £40 million just to keep him here, we may give it some consideration.
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I'm still seething after that performance today, with players and management. It was a great opportunity to address some recent poor performances against a team who had played in Europe on Thursday. Missing Jack so the perfect time for some of the under performing players to step out of his shadow. Big show of faith shown by Smith in the likes of Barkley and Luiz.
But all the old failings were there, right from the team selection, to the same laziness in midfield, the timing of the substitutions, the same lazy like for like change, more petulance from Barkley, never really turning the screw on Leicester until late on.
We are in danger of falling away badly I feel based on recent performances and the absence of our one true quality player.
We’ve done really well this season. Whatever happens between now and May, we know we’ve made tons of progress and have a platform for further success next season. We also know that today’s opponents are on a fantastic run of games, particularly away from home.
It's not all bad.
This was always going to happen.
Expectations have been raised with the sides performances and there will be a backlash if levels aren't maintained.
But we've made impressive progress and the summer will see big squad improvements so I'm staying positive even though we've dipped a bit.
We went i to todays game without two of our star performers and with the squad we've got it was always going to be a tough game.
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For some reason Barkley is not the player he was at the start of the season. Pure speculation but I do wonder whether following the Sanson signing he has geen told he will not be signed in the summer? Whatever the reason he should not be starting at the moment.
why would you tell a loan player he’s not being signed permanently at this stage of the season? Doesn’t make sense to me. He does need dropping though. Aside from his header a few games back, he’s done little to warrant selection and you can’t chuck hissy fits when you’re hooked if you’re not performing. Smith sort of covered a bit for him when he kicked the drinks bottles recently, but unless as some have suggested there is a contract clause that he plays if fit ( I don’t think there is), he needs to be sidelined for a few matches.
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He was out for 8 weeks not 8 months....surely should be back to fitness after half a dozen games & 2 weeks of only 1 game a week....if we are sticking to 433 then Barkley should only play as part of the front 3, doesn’t work hard enough to be in the midfield 3 for me
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First-half crap, second-half less crap.
Barkley's recent performances have been absolute garbage and he's now managed to augment that with a questionable attitude. It's time for him to sit on the bench.
SJM trys but it's not been good enough from him either lately. Start Ramsey and Sanson.
Luiz is the other question mark, but I think he has done enough to stay in the first XI for now.
Konsa is experiencing a dip in form, hope he turns it around quickly.
im not suggesting any discord between the 2 players, but aside from the Liverpool match, Barkley’s presence seems to nullify McGinns threat, to a degree. It brings to mind England trying to shoehorn lampard and Gerard into the side. Seems to me it’s one or the other with that pair.
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It’s a shame the way the whole Barkley signing seems to be turning out. I think our best performances this season have been Liverpool, Arsenal away and Leicester away. Barkleys performances in those games, were integral to the wider dynamic attacking display of the team, along with Grealish he carried the attack to the opposition.
I think he has struggled for fitness, that has impacted on his form and the combination of these factors seems to have in turn impacted on his mentality.
Unfortunately, we can’t carry him and he needs taking out of the team and then seeing if there is a reaction when he comes on as sub.
Luiz is also out of form a touch. However, as much as I like Nakambas efforts, he’s being judged as doing well when he’s come in, in comparison I feel to the car crashes of last year. He was tidy against Burnley and anonymous in the 2nd half against Arsenal. I think we have to judge Luiz in a changed midfield that retains the ball better and presses better without Barkley in it.
On Grealish, any team in this league, other than maybe Man City, would miss their best player. Leicester without Vardy, Spurs without Kane, Man U without Rashford maybe in comparison. We are going to miss Jack, this doesn’t mean we haven’t got quality in the team. The spine of Martinez, mings and Watkins is strong. Targett and Traore have quality and I feel McGinn is working really hard but needs more support. I don’t think Smith will change to dramatically, so it’ll be either Ramsey or Sanson in for Barkley and Trez in for Ghazi.
Finally, we don’t know the seasons going to disappear down the pan and I think the manager and most of the players need the benefit of the doubt after the season we’ve had so far.
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Sick of being a nursery for semi fit players.
If he ain't fully fit,don't pick him.
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It’s a shame the way the whole Barkley signing seems to be turning out. I think our best performances this season have been Liverpool, Arsenal away and Leicester away. Barkleys performances in those games, were integral to the wider dynamic attacking display of the team, along with Grealish he carried the attack to the opposition.
I think he has struggled for fitness, that has impacted on his form and the combination of these factors seems to have in turn impacted on his mentality.
Unfortunately, we can’t carry him and he needs taking out of the team and then seeing if there is a reaction when he comes on as sub.
Luiz is also out of form a touch. However, as much as I like Nakambas efforts, he’s being judged as doing well when he’s come in, in comparison I feel to the car crashes of last year. He was tidy against Burnley and anonymous in the 2nd half against Arsenal. I think we have to judge Luiz in a changed midfield that retains the ball better and presses better without Barkley in it.
On Grealish, any team in this league, other than maybe Man City, would miss their best player. Leicester without Vardy, Spurs without Kane, Man U without Rashford maybe in comparison. We are going to miss Jack, this doesn’t mean we haven’t got quality in the team. The spine of Martinez, mings and Watkins is strong. Targett and Traore have quality and I feel McGinn is working really hard but needs more support. I don’t think Smith will change to dramatically, so it’ll be either Ramsey or Sanson in for Barkley and Trez in for Ghazi.
Finally, we don’t know the seasons going to disappear down the pan and I think the manager and most of the players need the benefit of the doubt after the season we’ve had so far.
id include the palace game in that too. We were fantastic in that one.
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Next game will tell us a lot about DS, surely he cannot pick Barkley again after that performance. We have players that are plainly not good enough like Trez and El Gahzi, we know Barkley is capable but for some reason not willing to put the effort in. Ramsey deserves a run out, lets see how he goes after ninety minutes.
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Next game will tell us a lot about DS, surely he cannot pick Barkley again after that performance. We have players that are plainly not good enough like Trez and El Gahzi, we know Barkley is capable but for some reason not willing to put the effort in. Ramsey deserves a run out, lets see how he goes after ninety minutes.
Sanson is probably the first choice to come into midfield for me. He looks lively, makes good runs and presses well. We need that against Leeds.
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Grealish being injured at the same time as Cash means we lose a threat on both sides of the pitch and we don’t yet have the squad depth to deal with that when playing the better teams.
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Grealish being injured at the same time as Cash means we lose a threat on both sides of the pitch and we don’t yet have the squad depth to deal with that when playing the better teams.
We didn't have to let Guilbert go. Elmo was dreadful today, absolutely hopeless.
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We were unlucky that Cash got injured having missed one game all season, the week after Guilbert was allowed to go out. Most of us didn't think he was someone that would be missed.
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Next game will tell us a lot about DS, surely he cannot pick Barkley again after that performance. We have players that are plainly not good enough like Trez and El Gahzi, we know Barkley is capable but for some reason not willing to put the effort in. Ramsey deserves a run out, lets see how he goes after ninety minutes.
Sanson is probably the first choice to come into midfield for me. He looks lively, makes good runs and presses well. We need that against Leeds.
I think he could play next to Nakamba v Leeds in a deeper role. Has two good feet and can turn quickly with the ball. Luiz was hopeless again today. Ramsey further forward for me.
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Expectations have been raised because we have been fucking brilliant right up to the West Ham game
Even in the games we have lost Man United, Man City, West ham 1st game etc we have still been a joy to watch
West Ham were the first team to out play us and since then we haven’t been the same
Unfortunately when we have hit these bad runs of form in the past Smith has come up short in knowing what to do about it
I’m not interested in where we were two years ago I am more bothered about where we are going to be in two years time
The opportunity is now
The talk of well we are improved from last year is okay but it’s defeatist
The future is very much dependent on Grealish for us at the moment
We need to give him a platform and that platform needs to be higher than a mid-table team even if that is is an improvement
We are at the crossroads
Are we just going to be satisfied with doing better than last year or are we going to believe in Ourselves like we did at the start of the season and play with no fear and attack the opposition
We know we can do it because we have
If Smith doesn’t get it right soon we will be kicking ourselves in a couple of years time and looking back saying that was when we had the opportunity and we screwed it up the same way we did a number of times with the Doug Ellis
I would have taken A mid-table place at the start of the season
But not now my expectations have been raised by the team by the performances I’ve seen by the players
i’m not willing to settle for second best now I want the best
I want us to be going for Europa football it’s the best way of hanging onto Grealish
And it’s where a club the size of ours with the financial backing we have and one of the best players in the country on our books should be aiming for imo
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Expectations have been raised because we have been fucking brilliant right up to the West Ham game
Even in the games we have lost Man United, Man City, West ham 1st game etc we have still been a joy to watch
West Ham were the first team to out play us and since then we haven’t been the same
Unfortunately when we have hit these bad runs of form in the past Smith has come up short in knowing what to do about it
I’m not interested in where we were two years ago I am more bothered about where we are going to be in two years time
The opportunity is now
The talk of well we are improved from last year is okay but it’s defeatist
The future is very much dependent on Grealish for us at the moment
We need to give him a platform and that platform needs to be higher than a mid-table team even if that is is an improvement
We are at the crossroads
Are we just going to be satisfied with doing better than last year or are we going to believe in Ourselves like we did at the start of the season and play with no fear and attack the opposition
We know we can do it because we have
If Smith doesn’t get it right soon we will be kicking ourselves in a couple of years time and looking back saying that was when we had the opportunity and we screwed it up the same way we did a number of times with the Doug Ellis
I would have taken A mid-table place at the start of the season
But not now my expectations have been raised by the team by the performances I’ve seen by the players
i’m not willing to settle for second best now I want the best
I want us to be going for Europa football it’s the best way of hanging onto Grealish
And it’s where a club the size of ours with the financial backing we have and one of the best players in the country on our books should be aiming for imo
Well said
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I think we all want what John E wants but I think we have to be a bit more patient. Even with mega rich owners it takes time to build a squad capable of sustaining a season long challenge on the top 4 places. We still have a lot of players on our bench who aren't good enough for that level even as backup. We need wide players that are better than Trezeguet and more consistent than AEG. We need better back ups at full back on both sides. We probably need another striker and a centre back. I reckon we'll get most of those next summer if not all of them.
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Expectations have been raised because we have been fucking brilliant right up to the West Ham game
Even in the games we have lost Man United, Man City, West ham 1st game etc we have still been a joy to watch
West Ham were the first team to out play us and since then we haven’t been the same
Unfortunately when we have hit these bad runs of form in the past Smith has come up short in knowing what to do about it
I’m not interested in where we were two years ago I am more bothered about where we are going to be in two years time
The opportunity is now
The talk of well we are improved from last year is okay but it’s defeatist
The future is very much dependent on Grealish for us at the moment
We need to give him a platform and that platform needs to be higher than a mid-table team even if that is is an improvement
We are at the crossroads
Are we just going to be satisfied with doing better than last year or are we going to believe in Ourselves like we did at the start of the season and play with no fear and attack the opposition
We know we can do it because we have
If Smith doesn’t get it right soon we will be kicking ourselves in a couple of years time and looking back saying that was when we had the opportunity and we screwed it up the same way we did a number of times with the Doug Ellis
I would have taken A mid-table place at the start of the season
But not now my expectations have been raised by the team by the performances I’ve seen by the players
i’m not willing to settle for second best now I want the best
I want us to be going for Europa football it’s the best way of hanging onto Grealish
And it’s where a club the size of ours with the financial backing we have and one of the best players in the country on our books should be aiming for imo
Well said.
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I'm not sure how it's done in terms of who is picked or tactical changes but we need to stop teams driving a coach and horses through the middle. The opposition pick up the ball near halfway and have been able to play straight to the edge of the box without challenge. And this is happening with disturbing frequency because we keep losing it up front Mr Barkley.
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Expectations have been raised because we have been fucking brilliant right up to the West Ham game
Even in the games we have lost Man United, Man City, West ham 1st game etc we have still been a joy to watch
West Ham were the first team to out play us and since then we haven’t been the same
Unfortunately when we have hit these bad runs of form in the past Smith has come up short in knowing what to do about it
I’m not interested in where we were two years ago I am more bothered about where we are going to be in two years time
The opportunity is now
The talk of well we are improved from last year is okay but it’s defeatist
The future is very much dependent on Grealish for us at the moment
We need to give him a platform and that platform needs to be higher than a mid-table team even if that is is an improvement
We are at the crossroads
Are we just going to be satisfied with doing better than last year or are we going to believe in Ourselves like we did at the start of the season and play with no fear and attack the opposition
We know we can do it because we have
If Smith doesn’t get it right soon we will be kicking ourselves in a couple of years time and looking back saying that was when we had the opportunity and we screwed it up the same way we did a number of times with the Doug Ellis
I would have taken A mid-table place at the start of the season
But not now my expectations have been raised by the team by the performances I’ve seen by the players
i’m not willing to settle for second best now I want the best
I want us to be going for Europa football it’s the best way of hanging onto Grealish
And it’s where a club the size of ours with the financial backing we have and one of the best players in the country on our books should be aiming for imo
You are bang on John but at this stage
We don’t have the squad for it. At the start of the season when they were all fit and fresh we looked good. The problem was always going to be what happened when they got tired and injuries occurred. Add COVID into that and a ridiculously high amount of games in such a short period you have the recent performances. With the exception of Ramsey and Sanson, possibly Nakamba, the quality isn’t there to replace the first team regulars. That will take time but it’s coming
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This defeat was pretty disappointing, a good Leicester side who would have had problems lasting the 90 mins following their European adventures. I think the inability to hold up the ball in forward positions isn’t giving the team time to move forward and create pressure, it might be an idea to replace Barkley with luiz or McGinn and also play Ramsey on the right with marvellous playing dm. I think it’s a good idea giving Morgan some time to get up to speed. Are we betting Jack will be back before Wesley don’t yeh just love Deans mind games, oh and can we get Fred back please.
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Leeds were the first team to out play us
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Leeds didn't outplay us until we went behind. The match was fairly even up to then, and on chances we could and possibly should have been two ahead by the time they scored.
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time to shake up team selection and formation. nothing to lose, go on Dean!
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https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/12224997/madisson-barnes-shine-as-foxes-beat-villa
That's the first chance I've had to watch the goals. Very disappointed with both of their goals. Both goals were poor from our perspective. And what was their keeper having a go about when Bertie scored? He did nothing wrong there.
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See Deano and me have the same eyesight for foul throws.
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Leeds didn't outplay us until we went behind. The match was fairly even up to then, and on chances we could and possibly should have been two ahead by the time they scored.
I agree with that
Leeds were the better side on the night and scored 3 outstanding goals
but I never felt they completely outplayed us like West Ham and Brighton did
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Expectations have been raised because we have been fucking brilliant right up to the West Ham game
Even in the games we have lost Man United, Man City, West ham 1st game etc we have still been a joy to watch
West Ham were the first team to out play us and since then we haven’t been the same
Unfortunately when we have hit these bad runs of form in the past Smith has come up short in knowing what to do about it
I’m not interested in where we were two years ago I am more bothered about where we are going to be in two years time
The opportunity is now
The talk of well we are improved from last year is okay but it’s defeatist
The future is very much dependent on Grealish for us at the moment
We need to give him a platform and that platform needs to be higher than a mid-table team even if that is is an improvement
We are at the crossroads
Are we just going to be satisfied with doing better than last year or are we going to believe in Ourselves like we did at the start of the season and play with no fear and attack the opposition
We know we can do it because we have
If Smith doesn’t get it right soon we will be kicking ourselves in a couple of years time and looking back saying that was when we had the opportunity and we screwed it up the same way we did a number of times with the Doug Ellis
I would have taken A mid-table place at the start of the season
But not now my expectations have been raised by the team by the performances I’ve seen by the players
i’m not willing to settle for second best now I want the best
I want us to be going for Europa football it’s the best way of hanging onto Grealish
And it’s where a club the size of ours with the financial backing we have and one of the best players in the country on our books should be aiming for imo
You are bang on John but at this stage
We don’t have the squad for it. At the start of the season when they were all fit and fresh we looked good. The problem was always going to be what happened when they got tired and injuries occurred. Add COVID into that and a ridiculously high amount of games in such a short period you have the recent performances. With the exception of Ramsey and Sanson, possibly Nakamba, the quality isn’t there to replace the first team regulars. That will take time but it’s coming
True
but the further you go up the league the finer the decisions you have to get right
when your best fit right back has joined the French foreign legion and your relying on a player who’s contract has every chance of not being renewed at the end of the season because he’s not up to the job, they are the decisions that you get away with in the championship and if you just want to avoid relegation but not if you want to compete for a Europa spot
the line ups and tactics have to be spot on
you can’t let a game drift on for an hour being outplayed then make like for like changes and hope it will some how come good
the Manager the coaches and the players have to learn, and learn quickly that the finer things are now important things that can have big outcomes
This is the difference between surviving or challenging
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Expectations have been raised because we have been fucking brilliant right up to the West Ham game
Even in the games we have lost Man United, Man City, West ham 1st game etc we have still been a joy to watch
West Ham were the first team to out play us and since then we haven’t been the same
Unfortunately when we have hit these bad runs of form in the past Smith has come up short in knowing what to do about it
I’m not interested in where we were two years ago I am more bothered about where we are going to be in two years time
The opportunity is now
The talk of well we are improved from last year is okay but it’s defeatist
The future is very much dependent on Grealish for us at the moment
We need to give him a platform and that platform needs to be higher than a mid-table team even if that is is an improvement
We are at the crossroads
Are we just going to be satisfied with doing better than last year or are we going to believe in Ourselves like we did at the start of the season and play with no fear and attack the opposition
We know we can do it because we have
If Smith doesn’t get it right soon we will be kicking ourselves in a couple of years time and looking back saying that was when we had the opportunity and we screwed it up the same way we did a number of times with the Doug Ellis
I would have taken A mid-table place at the start of the season
But not now my expectations have been raised by the team by the performances I’ve seen by the players
i’m not willing to settle for second best now I want the best
I want us to be going for Europa football it’s the best way of hanging onto Grealish
And it’s where a club the size of ours with the financial backing we have and one of the best players in the country on our books should be aiming for imo
You are bang on John but at this stage
We don’t have the squad for it. At the start of the season when they were all fit and fresh we looked good. The problem was always going to be what happened when they got tired and injuries occurred. Add COVID into that and a ridiculously high amount of games in such a short period you have the recent performances. With the exception of Ramsey and Sanson, possibly Nakamba, the quality isn’t there to replace the first team regulars. That will take time but it’s coming
True
but the further you go up the league the finer the decisions you have to get right
when your best fit right back has joined the French foreign legion and your relying on a player who’s contract has every chance of not being renewed at the end of the season because he’s not up to the job, they are the decisions that you get away with in the championship and if you just want to avoid relegation but not if you want to compete for a Europa spot
the line ups and tactics have to be spot on
you can’t let a game drift on for an hour being outplayed then make like for like changes and hope it will some how come good
the Manager the coaches and the players have to learn, and learn quickly that the finer things are now important things that can have big outcomes
This is the difference between surviving or challenging
This is fair comment. Everyone agrees that we are progressing but to go further still we need to be more savvy with team selection and in-game management.
Brendan Rodgers seems to be pretty switched on as do the likes of Guardiola and Tuchel but these are the top level.
Hopefully we're heading in the right direction.
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Weirdly we beat Leicester in xG yesterday. Not sure how!
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Guilbert is our best right back? I know players get better when they aren't playing but to say he's better than Cash is ridiculous.
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Maybe Gilbert had his nose put out when we signed Cash, and asked for a transfer. Elmo is a capable player and a model professional. No one knows the full story but perhaps our management didn’t want an unhappy player around the squad.
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https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/12224997/madisson-barnes-shine-as-foxes-beat-villa
That's the first chance I've had to watch the goals. Very disappointed with both of their goals. Both goals were poor from our perspective. And what was their keeper having a go about when Bertie scored? He did nothing wrong there.
Sums it up for me. I also thought Schmeichel was deliberately leaning on Traore for way longer and more heavily than necessary trying to get a reaction out of him (presumably so he could go down like he'd been hit by Mike Tyson). W@nker!
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Guilbert is our best right back? I know players get better when they aren't playing but to say he's better than Cash is ridiculous.
I think he was saying he was our best fit right back, as Cash isn't fit atm.
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Match was over after 25 mins, after that Leicester didn't need to get out of 2nd gear. Improvement in the 2nd half, but after our goal we created virtually nothing until Mings' effort in the last minute. How Barkley was allowed to stay on for 76 mins, I'll never know, with Jack out this was his big chance to up his game, he failed miserably.
So far minutes on the pitch for Sanson have been West Ham 10, Arsenal 12, Brighton 14 and Leicester 9, when are you going to give the bloke a chance Dean.
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Maybe Gilbert had his nose put out when we signed Cash, and asked for a transfer. Elmo is a capable player and a model professional. No one knows the full story but perhaps our management didn’t want an unhappy player around the squad.
Elmo isn't a decent Premier League standard player any more, he was abysmal against Leicester, after a shocker of a cameo against Brighton. I confidently predict that Leeds will go after our right hand side like a kid in a sweet shop.
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Guilbert is our best right back? I know players get better when they aren't playing but to say he's better than Cash is ridiculous.
I think he was saying he was our best fit right back, as Cash isn't fit atm.
Correct
That’s why I put the word fit in there
Cash is our best right back but is currently injured
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Missed that.
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Sick of Barkley starting , absolute shite . Lost the ball when we was attacking , gave a poor pass away , we never got the ball back they scored. He is not making John McGinn look super neither , its not working together.
No idea why Morgan did not start , we need something fresh with a spark in there . In fact Nakamba, JJ and Morgan Id have starting next game..
Elmo , Trez and El Ghazi aint much neither . Fuck Barkley off and replace with Buendia .
Im surrounded by Leicester fans , the girlfriend is a leicester fan , so wasnt a good day for me and frustrated by DS slow changes , he always takes so long.
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Maybe Gilbert had his nose put out when we signed Cash, and asked for a transfer. Elmo is a capable player and a model professional. No one knows the full story but perhaps our management didn’t want an unhappy player around the squad.
Elmo isn't a decent Premier League standard player any more, he was abysmal against Leicester, after a shocker of a cameo against Brighton. I confidently predict that Leeds will go after our right hand side like a kid in a sweet shop.
I think it's all about the future. They want Guilbert playing games but he's not good enough to usurp Cash. Elmo is at the end of his deal so the plan was probably to keep him as a deputy on the bench with Cash being consistent and young enough to stay fit.
Next season, Elmo will be gone and Guilbert will be back, unless of course they promote Kesler and let Guilbert go completely. I think the timing was unfortunate.
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I think it's all about the future. They want Guilbert playing games but he's not good enough to usurp Cash. Elmo is at the end of his deal so the plan was probably to keep him as a deputy on the bench with Cash being consistent and young enough to stay fit.
Next season, Elmo will be gone and Guilbert will be back, unless of course they promote Kesler and let Guilbert go completely. I think the timing was unfortunate.
I think you're right, but manager's live and die by their decisions, and right now it's looking a bad one. Of all the replacements for the current first team, he was one of the better ones (compared to having to bring in the likes of Taylor, Davis or Engels) but now we're stuck with Elmo for the next few weeks.
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It's a bit of sod's law too. I'm sure had we loaned out or sold Taylor we'd have lost Targett. Cash has been sold and the embodiment of fitness all season and literally a couple of weeks after we let Guilbert go on loan he gets hurt. I mean what are the odds? I see why we kept Elmo because of his experience and versatility but it is now absolutely clear that he won't be here next seaon along with Engels and Taylor. We need better and players that can step in and the level doesn't drop off so dramatically.
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I love Elmo, some of our decent memories from the last few years have included him. The cross for the Leicester semi winner, the cross for the El Ghazi play-off opener. Unfortunately for all his effort he is a bit shite and shouldn't be anywhere near a squad looking for the top half of the division. Next season he won't be. We've had that much rebuilding to do in 2 years that there are still holes. I can't explain the decision to loan out Gilbert though, I'm no big fan of his but Elmo is out of contract in the summer and at the end of his career.
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Maybe we should just give Kesler a Premier League debut.
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I also just have good things to say about Elmo. Composed, smart, positional sense, seems a person that carry himself well as you say on here. Might not be the fastest anymore but gives what he have for the team.
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Maybe Gilbert had his nose put out when we signed Cash, and asked for a transfer. Elmo is a capable player and a model professional. No one knows the full story but perhaps our management didn’t want an unhappy player around the squad.
Elmo isn't a decent Premier League standard player any more, he was abysmal against Leicester, after a shocker of a cameo against Brighton. I confidently predict that Leeds will go after our right hand side like a kid in a sweet shop.
I think it's all about the future. They want Guilbert playing games but he's not good enough to usurp Cash. Elmo is at the end of his deal so the plan was probably to keep him as a deputy on the bench with Cash being consistent and young enough to stay fit.
Next season, Elmo will be gone and Guilbert will be back, unless of course they promote Kesler and let Guilbert go completely. I think the timing was unfortunate.
Its puzzling a lot of us on here why Guilbert started the season as third choice behind Elmo to start with. Elmo has been a great pro for us but has never been good enough for this level with the likes of Sunderland and Hull. With his contract running out, if anything we should have been letting Elmo go with our best wishes and giving Guilbert a bit of game time now and again.
We had this problem back in MON's time too. Favourites played week in and week out until they burn out Feb/Mar time. Backup players coming in and unsurprisingly not impressing with very little game time under their belt all season. MON used it as a vehicle to go back looking for more money.
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I doubt Guilbert will make some sort of Hutton style return. He was probably allowed to leave on loan because he was told he has no future here.
If Elmo stinks the place out it looks like a bad decision, but Guilbert had his fair share of bad days too. His first instinct to charge forward sometimes gets him into trouble and he is right up there with McGinn for collecting yellows.
Saying that though, I'd still liked to have seen more of him than we did.
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Not sure if im adding much to the debate but over 24 hours later i still fee lthe need to vent.
I hadnt picked up on it before but not only does Barclay not create, apart from problems, he does hamper McGinn as well.
Alex Scott called him out on the post match piece and got it spot on (as did all of us as usual). Of all the "performances" hes put in since arriving thats been the worst - no creativity, no effort and no tracking. Hourihane used to be the player id lambast the most but at least he did something occasionally - if you offered a swap now id agree in a heartbeat.
If we start with the same team who finished the game (assuming Jack is injured for Leeds) I wouldnt be unhappy. We looked quicker and suddenly played 10 yds further up the pitch. Yes Leicester could maybe have gone up another hear but we look dangerous for the first time in ages.
Keep it the same and have the youngsters on the bench again for some fresh legs with 15 to go.
We can but dream.
UTV
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I also just have good things to say about Elmo. Composed, smart, positional sense, seems a person that carry himself well as you say on here. Might not be the fastest anymore but gives what he have for the team.
His positional sense was atrocious on Saturday. All over the place, not helped at all by the fact he hasn't got the legs to recover any more.
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I also just have good things to say about Elmo. Composed, smart, positional sense, seems a person that carry himself well as you say on here. Might not be the fastest anymore but gives what he have for the team.
His positional sense was atrocious on Saturday. All over the place, not helped at all by the fact he hasn't got the legs to recover any more.
every one knew he was going to be exposed, so it was hardly a surprise that he was all over the place. he had no cover against an inform quick winger in Barnes.
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By the way my unbeaten run has come to an end so I’m handing over the pre match thread baton to Footy.
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I have respect for what Elmo has done for us. He's not the best but by no means the worst we've had.
He clearly wouldn't be a first pick, but if he is Cash's replacement, that is down to Smith and we can't blame ElMo too much. Also Traore is not effective at providing cover which also adds even more weight to Cash's form.
I also don't see why Smith would be getting Guilbert back next season.
When the league recommenced last season, Smith always favoured ElMo over Guilbert which suggests Smith doesn't rate Guilbert highly enough anyway.
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Expectations have been raised because we have been fucking brilliant right up to the West Ham game
Even in the games we have lost Man United, Man City, West ham 1st game etc we have still been a joy to watch
West Ham were the first team to out play us and since then we haven’t been the same
Unfortunately when we have hit these bad runs of form in the past Smith has come up short in knowing what to do about it
I’m not interested in where we were two years ago I am more bothered about where we are going to be in two years time
The opportunity is now
The talk of well we are improved from last year is okay but it’s defeatist
The future is very much dependent on Grealish for us at the moment
We need to give him a platform and that platform needs to be higher than a mid-table team even if that is is an improvement
We are at the crossroads
Are we just going to be satisfied with doing better than last year or are we going to believe in Ourselves like we did at the start of the season and play with no fear and attack the opposition
We know we can do it because we have
If Smith doesn’t get it right soon we will be kicking ourselves in a couple of years time and looking back saying that was when we had the opportunity and we screwed it up the same way we did a number of times with the Doug Ellis
I would have taken A mid-table place at the start of the season
But not now my expectations have been raised by the team by the performances I’ve seen by the players
i’m not willing to settle for second best now I want the best
I want us to be going for Europa football it’s the best way of hanging onto Grealish
And it’s where a club the size of ours with the financial backing we have and one of the best players in the country on our books should be aiming for imo
I agree about looking forwards and wanting more from this team, especially after the style and swagger in which we’ve played at times.
However, the problem with not wanting to look at the past, is you can say things like smiths come up short when we’ve gone through other bad runs. After Xmas in the promotion season we were on a terrible run of form, but came through it to win ten in a row and went up. Last year we were dead, but came back after lockdown and against all the odds stayed up. Not all down to smith, some luck involved, but he would of also been integral to these up turns in form. My point is, we’ve had a really good season and whatever happens in the next couple of games, Smiths history at the club, indicates he will turn around this mini slump.
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We haven't got a strong enough squad to get into the European places and our better players are starting to look a bit fatigued and out of sorts. We'll pick up a few good results along the way and I reckon we'll finish about where we are now, as long as we don't suffer more injuries and suspensions.
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We haven't got a strong enough squad to get into the European places and our better players are starting to look a bit fatigued and out of sorts. We'll pick up a few good results along the way and I reckon we'll finish about where we are now, as long as we don't suffer more injuries and suspensions.
Which I will be delighted with
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Expectations have been raised because we have been fucking brilliant right up to the West Ham game
Even in the games we have lost Man United, Man City, West ham 1st game etc we have still been a joy to watch
West Ham were the first team to out play us and since then we haven’t been the same
Unfortunately when we have hit these bad runs of form in the past Smith has come up short in knowing what to do about it
I’m not interested in where we were two years ago I am more bothered about where we are going to be in two years time
The opportunity is now
The talk of well we are improved from last year is okay but it’s defeatist
The future is very much dependent on Grealish for us at the moment
We need to give him a platform and that platform needs to be higher than a mid-table team even if that is is an improvement
We are at the crossroads
Are we just going to be satisfied with doing better than last year or are we going to believe in Ourselves like we did at the start of the season and play with no fear and attack the opposition
We know we can do it because we have
If Smith doesn’t get it right soon we will be kicking ourselves in a couple of years time and looking back saying that was when we had the opportunity and we screwed it up the same way we did a number of times with the Doug Ellis
I would have taken A mid-table place at the start of the season
But not now my expectations have been raised by the team by the performances I’ve seen by the players
i’m not willing to settle for second best now I want the best
I want us to be going for Europa football it’s the best way of hanging onto Grealish
And it’s where a club the size of ours with the financial backing we have and one of the best players in the country on our books should be aiming for imo
You are bang on John but at this stage
We don’t have the squad for it. At the start of the season when they were all fit and fresh we looked good. The problem was always going to be what happened when they got tired and injuries occurred. Add COVID into that and a ridiculously high amount of games in such a short period you have the recent performances. With the exception of Ramsey and Sanson, possibly Nakamba, the quality isn’t there to replace the first team regulars. That will take time but it’s coming
True
but the further you go up the league the finer the decisions you have to get right
when your best fit right back has joined the French foreign legion and your relying on a player who’s contract has every chance of not being renewed at the end of the season because he’s not up to the job, they are the decisions that you get away with in the championship and if you just want to avoid relegation but not if you want to compete for a Europa spot
the line ups and tactics have to be spot on
you can’t let a game drift on for an hour being outplayed then make like for like changes and hope it will some how come good
the Manager the coaches and the players have to learn, and learn quickly that the finer things are now important things that can have big outcomes
This is the difference between surviving or challenging
This is fair comment. Everyone agrees that we are progressing but to go further still we need to be more savvy with team selection and in-game management.
Brendan Rodgers seems to be pretty switched on as do the likes of Guardiola and Tuchel but these are the top level.
Hopefully we're heading in the right direction.
You both make great points, and in hindsight releasing Guilbert where the only other alternative was Elmo was worrying. However it backs up my point about a weak squad. Neither of them are anywhere near as good as Cash. The three managers mentioned have been plying their trade at the highest level for years and learning and hopefully Smith will join them at the summit. But currently his hands are tied by a lack of quality in the deeper squad
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Guilbert is our best right back? I know players get better when they aren't playing but to say he's better than Cash is ridiculous.
I think someone said our best ‘fit’ right back. And I agree. Cash is way better, but he’s injured. If Guilbert was available I’d have picked him, no doubt at all about that one.
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Maybe it was thought better to give him some game time or lower the wage bill for the rest of the season!
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I think when they signed Guilbert he was probably seen as the replacement for Elmo. I liked him a lot from what I saw of him. But they probably just saw signing Cash as a no- brainer. He’s quality and we’ll miss him when he’s out injured. I do think we fkd up a bit letting Guilbert go out on loan. Circumstances though probably. I do hope the loan spell improves Guilbert and he comes back improved for next season.
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This might go against the grain to some but next season
SJM should not be a first team regular but more a squad player
Simply not good enough for the level we want to aspire to
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Excuse me as I have not read the entire post match comment but upon reflection did anyone else not see this as not so bad a second half performance. I mean not up to our usual standards this season of course but that outside of first half which I scored at 5.5 Villa were better in the second period and perhaps the better team in what was quite a straightforward win for Leicester.
But the thing I saw was that Leicester were not much fair either and it was maybe a case of 2 halfs with Villa better and of course I think with Grealish would have won but the game itself would not have been unjust to have taken a point.
I think Villa are on the right track here and what was pleasing wasn't a heavy defeat after 2-0 down 24 minutes
I think Villa were OK by and large second half for sure.
Be interesting what line up will be made in Leeds and four days later vs Sheffield Utd.
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Leicester had just played a full game in Europe though with a lot of the same starting line up so I’m guessing they eased up or tired in the 2nd half.
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Wherever we finish in the league this season, Deano is going to have to learn to rotate his squad which means sometimes picking less than the best team for matches. Thereby keeping all the squad involved and avoiding situations where the likes of Guilbert and Hoorahan ask to go on loan to get game time.
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Leicester had just played a full game in Europe though with a lot of the same starting line up so I’m guessing they eased up or tired in the 2nd half.
That was another really annoying aspect. We've had two games in a row with whole weeks in between, but we still played them both like every player had just run the London marathon.
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Wherever we finish in the league this season, Deano is going to have to learn to rotate his squad which means sometimes picking less than the best team for matches. Thereby keeping all the squad involved and avoiding situations where the likes of Guilbert and Hoorahan ask to go on loan to get game time.
Agreed, they are two decent enough players anyway so it wasn't going to weaken us hugely giving them minutes earlier in the season. Both Cash and Barkley were appalling in the Leeds and Southampton games for example. I think Elmo was eventually brought on for Cash in one of those games. It would have kept those two involved by giving them minutes. Hourihane I thought played quite well in his three starts. That West Ham away game was one of the last games we completely controlled midfield.
For whatever reason, Smith clearly doesn't rate either of them. Ramsey and Sanson have pushed Hourihane firmly out of the reckoning and if you are third choice behind Elmo, then your time is up too. But Smith needs to wise up from his MON esque approach on player fatigue, rotation and substitutes.
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West ham have been pretty good at rotating key players.
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Leicester had just played a full game in Europe though with a lot of the same starting line up so I’m guessing they eased up or tired in the 2nd half.
That was another really annoying aspect. We've had two games in a row with whole weeks in between, but we still played them both like every player had just run the London marathon.
I always think of the Boat Race and the contrast between the 2 Crews, one is jubilant and look like they could row it again, the other is slumped head down breathing out their arse.
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One of the few highlights of the day was listening to Alan Hutton on the radio before the game.
After that, things went downhill...