Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Toronto Villa on February 13, 2021, 09:50:35 PM
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Absolute shit. Thank fuck for Emi 10/10. Everyone else between 3 and 5
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The moment there is any slight pressure of achievement they fold like a stack of cards. Could have gone 7th win 2 games in hand.
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Well, that’s a point I suppose.
It wasn’t pretty - or easy to watch. But it’s a point.
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Thank Christ that's over.
Martinez great. The defence fine. Everyone else pretty pointless.
Hope Cash isn't out for too long based on AEM's showing.
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Best 20 million we’ve ever spent
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Total shit.
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Worst performance of the season, apart from Emi - which is basically why we lost against WHam and drew here.
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Martinez was great tonight
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YAY! A point from an utterly shit performance. Thank fuck for Martinez.
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Not pretty at all. Very lucky to get a point. Our midfield has certainly lost its edge and fluidity.
It’s just not right at all.
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Poor, but didn't lose. Listening to BT we held on - that is NOT true. They were uninspired, but slightly better. Crap game.
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That was a tough watch. Only real positive was when we played like that before lockdown we would concede a bag full, now we're hard as nails back there.
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Yes we were terrible. We are far too reliant on Jack. The rest of the midfield is virtually non existent. It's time for a few others to step up and shoulder some responsibility.
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What an absolute stinker. Very much a point gained. Needs to be 1000% to get anything against Leicester on Sunday
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Luiz and McGinn showed absolutely nothing.
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The BBC have it as Brighton 0-0 Emiliano Martinez
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Not a single half chane, worst performance of season for me. We looked fucked for some reason.
Martinez 9/10.
Defence 7/8
Everybody else 3
Grealish shouldve been at 10 after 50 mins.
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Gracias Emiliano.
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Poorest I've seen us in ages, not even a good period during the game.
Emi won us a point.
The only others who played anywhere near their usual level were Targett, Mings and Cash.
The rest, including Jack, couldn't pass or control for shit and were giving it away for fun.
A point is a bonus.
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They are the form team (other than ManCity) and we nullified each other. They were better but rarely threatened.
It's another point.
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Martinez brilliant, defence solid, everything else not so good.
Point gained
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Dross display.
Positives -
- got a point
- Emi - beyond words
- Ezri and Ty were great.
Oh and Morgan did well.
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Awful, but we got point thanks to Martinez. Our midfielders were way off tonight but Brighton did well in not giving us any space.
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Woah we were so bad. Easily our worst footballing display since March 2020.
Just take a point but if ever a game spelt out to the manager we need to refresh our midfield at times and SJM and Barkley shouldn't be undroppable it's that match.
Martinez motm by a mile. Pretty much all of our outfield players couldn't pass water tonight.
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Happy we took a point from that poor performance, wouldn’t be surprised if Marvellous replaces Dougie again for the next game, Barkley didn’t offer anything and every time we play Brighton our midfield get dominated. One positive is we go above Spurs in the league.
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Is it actually possible to call a point, a smash and grab? Well I’ll call it that.
Emi, take a bow. Deserves better than that.
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Point gained v inform team.
Other than that well we need to get the midfield back who created time and options for Jack earlier in the season.
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Four points off the European places with games in hand ;)
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McGinn is a lovely bloke, and a good player, but he needs some time out of the team.
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But that is all we do - give it to Jack. And now other teams have sussed us out we cannot change. Dean needs to get his thinking hat on and work on it. Plus some changes might change the mentality a bit, I think there are some in the team who think they are guaranteed a place.
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The one that got away...from Brighton!
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Out of jail thanks to Emi. We’re lucky to have him.
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Considering Brighton tried to sign Martinez in the summer and he picked us over them, they're probably double-gutted with how he played tonight.
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Some great defensive performances tonight. Got away with one so a decent point.
Got to say though this site turns into Small Heath Alliance, Molineux mix or any other site after a bad performance.
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A good point on the road and not worth getting too over reactionary about it. Clean sheet away from home, draw the away games and win at home and we’ll be top 8 which would represent an unreal turnaround.
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Far too much respect given to Brighton who warmed to the idea.
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Played a lot better than that and lost. Happy with the point, not the performance.
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Hopefully Matty Cash has just a small strain that clears up and not done his hamstring.
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No real surprise. Burnley 2nd half seems to have shredded our confidence attacking wise. Reasons why, I don’t know.
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Might be time to give Ramsey, Sanson and Nakamba a bit more game time. They couldn't be any worse than our midfield were tonight.
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Some great defensive performances tonight. Got away with one so a decent point.
Got to say though this site turns into Small Heath Alliance, Molineux mix or any other site after a bad performance.
Yep. It does.
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Traore, Barkley and Grealish did the sum total of nothing. McGinn woeful and Trezeguet ran round like a headless chicken when he came on. Emi stand out player, but honourable mention to Luiz, who put a shift in.
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That was gash. Didn't want to know at times, couldn't get in the game and woefully inadequate. thank god for martinez, Mings and Konsa. Sloppy passing, lack of an edge and did we win a second ball all night? Take the point, move on.
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They are the form team (other than ManCity) and we nullified each other. They were better but rarely threatened.
It's another point.
Mate, if they rarely threatened, Martinez wouldn’t have needed to be the reincarnation of Dino Zoff 1982
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Anyone else think we’ll be last on MOTD tonight?
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Rubbish really. Flat and don't even think we had a shot? Reminded me of McLeishs time. In saying that, another clean sheet and our back 5 were very organized. Mings motm for me, another very good game for him. Martinez made some saves but all were comfortable enough. Brighton had no threat up top really. Sanson showed a few nice touches.
A number of players are starting based on reputation only. Not just Barkley who was rubbish again. McGinn was at best trundling, Luiz offered very little bar fouls, Traore anonymous again. Far too much direct ball to Watkins up against three centre backs. We have been doing that far too much in recent games.
Trez was shite when he came on too, tries hard but such an average player.
Martinez 7, Cash 6 (Elmo 5), Konsa 7, Mings 8, Targett 7, Luiz 5, McGinn 5, Traore 4 (Trez 5), Barkley 4 (Sanson 6), Grealish 5, Watkins 5
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Very good point against a very lively Brighton side, fair play to them they were incredibly energetic in denying us any space at all.
Sound defensive organisation and limited them to very few clear cut chances which was great to see as going forward we were non existent. Just looked knackered and clueless.
I’m taking the positive that we got a point in poor form.
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Painful to watch. Martinez was brilliant and the back 4 just about did enough. Everyone in front of them was so so poor tonight, although in fairness to Watkins, to say he was living off scraps would be generous to our midfield.
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We don't do draws. In most other situations that performance merits a defeat. Constantly gave the ball back to them. Thankfully we have such confidence in keeping teams outbthese days.
A bit worrying that we haven't fully clicked probably since Boxing Day at home to Palace. Jack and Ollie need more help in the final third.
And I'm not sure why Sanson got booked as McGinn committed two fouls in that piece of action. At least Morgan looks like he can get into the box and do a Hourihane (similar physique to Conor too - hopefully an improvement off the ball).
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Leicester next. We play like that again we are taking a good beating. It’s as simple as that.
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Anyone else think we’ll be last on MOTD tonight?
Wouldn't surprise me if we were not shown.
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Just watching Martinez's interview.
He's a winner.
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Aston Villa goalkeeper Emiliano Martinez tells Sky Sports: "Not really (pleased with a point), we came here to win and be in the top seven with two games in hand. We were sloppy in the first half and could not create the chances in the second.
"That is my job and the back four, to keep a clean sheet. It is one of those games where we had to put our bodies on the line but we were really off today.
"It was so cold, I thought I had a good game because I made a save early on and I am delighted to keep everyone out today.
"I just want to repay the trust of the manager, goalkeeper coach and club. I am glad I settled in really quickly but credit to my team-mates who are doing a really good job.
"We are looking to Europe, that is why I am frustrated today. We were not in the game since the first minute and Brighton deserved to win."
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Minus points: they are looking burnt out and running out of ideas. Teams have worked out how to stop Jack.
Plus points:We have a world class keeper who's earned us a point which has moved us up to 8th.
If the players can regain their early season mojo we can go even higher.
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Painful to watch. Martinez was brilliant and the back 4 just about did enough. Everyone in front of them was so so poor tonight, although in fairness to Watkins, to say he was living off scraps would be generous to our midfield.
SKY went straight from our game to the boxing and the first words I heard from the commentator was
"Martinez is looking dominant tonight".
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What do you expect with Barkley giving the ball away consistently and offering absolutely nothing without the ball.
The obvious move was to get Barkley off move Jack and get Trez on earlier.
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That wasn’t much fun, disappointed in them and not often I’ve said that this season.
Upsides - Martinez brilliance and we still grabbed a point while having an off day.
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Another clean sheet thanks to Emi and the back 4 who kept us in it.
How many chances did we create?
In truth, a point we didn't deserve, but we'll take it.
Too many players below par, some are beginning to be repeat offenders.
Need to find a way of playing that can take account of Jack being heavily marked.
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That was the performance of a team on 35 points with two games to go. Very worrying.
Eh?
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DS needs to rotate more. Even with a weeks rest effectively we weren't at it. Martinez outstanding!
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Fuck.
I was really and genuinely looking forward to us playing in Europe next season.
Had all sorts of thoughts of us all travelling away and singing load and proud somewhere. (If restrictions allowed)
Dean n Co. Please sort the midfield out and make it happen.
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Refreshingly honest interview from Martinez there.
Brighton had 26 shots. If we had lost 3-0 we couldn't have argued.
Too many of our forward players contributed absolutely nothing.
Dean has to pick on performance not reputations.
McGinn was poor.Traore and Barkley... Sorry, don't merit their place remotely at the moment.
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That was the performance of a team on 35 points with two games to go. Very worrying.
Eh?
I assume he means a team on 35 points struggling to get out of the bottom 3 with a couple of games left, and not a team on 35 points chasing Europe with almost half a season left.
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We lacked ideas tonight and we never seem to do well against three centre backs. Their midfield even smothered our counter attacks and Ollie Watkins was very isolated because we couldn’t get Barkley (who was completely anonymous) close enough to him. That said last season an individual error would have cost us the point.
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Defence was ok, keeper was outstanding. The rest were turd.
Lucky to get away with that.
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The good news is we've gone above Spurs.
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We were very poor there's no denying that but that was one of the most pathetic refereeing performances I've seen in years, horribly inconsistent.
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Have to take a massive positive, though, play pretty terribly, still don't lose.
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Martinet is absolutely fantastic. Calling out the rubbish from the outfield players - barring the back 4 tbf
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I'm glad Martinez is disappointed with that result. He did his bit. If the team were as on it as him we would have won.
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Have to take a massive positive, though, play pretty terribly, still don't lose.
Could be worse. Could be Brighton playing "well" and still being that shit.
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The midfield two just couldn’t hack that today.
I wonder if we need to go back to a 3 in midfield for some games.
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They are the form team (other than ManCity) and we nullified each other. They were better but rarely threatened.
It's another point.
Mate, if they rarely threatened, Martinez wouldn’t have needed to be the reincarnation of Dino Zoff 1982
Nah, there were a couple of decent saves but all saves you'd expect him to make.
Proper attitude from him.
I think for the next game Sanson needs to start. I'd also be tempted to start Davis and play Watkins wide. That way, we won't be reliant on Grealish to hold it up and create.
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That was the performance of a team on 35 points with two games to go. Very worrying.
Eh?
I assume he means a team on 35 points struggling to get out of the bottom 3 with a couple of games left, and not a team on 35 points chasing Europe with almost half a season left.
Thanks TV.
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Emi Martinez after half a season is arguably the best keeper we’ve ever had. He’s genuinely that good.
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We just never started & were a yard behind in everything. Changes made from the bench were just a change of players & not the system. We just never got the ball into the last third all night. We need to be able to change the system if it's not working.
We'll need a big improvement next week.
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Fuck.
I was really and genuinely looking forward to us playing in Europe next season.
Had all sorts of thoughts of us all travelling away and singing load and proud somewhere. (If restrictions allowed)
Dean n Co. Please sort the midfield out and make it happen.
We could still do it, but we won’t be travelling anywhere.
Magnificent from Emi tonight and just hope Matty Cash hasn’t done that hamstring. Really wish we hadn’t let Freddie Guilbert go.
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The goalkeeper is alright I suppose.
We look really well balanced and threatening with El Ghazi and Traore out wide and Jack in behind Watkins. Sides struggle to make plans for him when he has more licence to roam. I can understand why it would be a difficult decision to leave Barkley out and as poor as he was tonight, he was no worse than some others, but tangible evidence suggests we were playing better when he was injured.
Teams are also starting to make plans for us now. We earned their respect. Now the players and management need to work out a way escaping those plans. Collectively, they seem like the sort who will relish the challenge.
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Centre midfield changes next week could be an idea. I’d give Nakamba and Sansom a run.
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To play that shit and get a point is a positive.
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Rubbish really. Flat and don't even think we had a shot? Reminded me of McLeishs time. In saying that, another clean sheet and our back 5 were very organized. Mings motm for me, another very good game for him. Martinez made some saves but all were comfortable enough. Brighton had no threat up top really. Sanson showed a few nice touches.
A number of players are starting based on reputation only. Not just Barkley who was rubbish again. McGinn was at best trundling, Luiz offered very little bar fouls, Traore anonymous again. Far too much direct ball to Watkins up against three centre backs. We have been doing that far too much in recent games.
Trez was shite when he came on too, tries hard but such an average player.
Martinez 7, Cash 6 (Elmo 5), Konsa 7, Mings 8, Targett 7, Luiz 5, McGinn 5, Traore 4 (Trez 5), Barkley 4 (Sanson 6), Grealish 5, Watkins 5
Some of Martinez saves were brilliant. Top corner deflections the lot. That was a top class performance from a top class keeper. A World class keeper. I'm amazed that you're playing down Emi's performance which you're entitled to do but I completely disagree with your assessment of his performance tonight.
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We were robbed of that penalty in the home game, so luck has evened out tonight.
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https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/12217533/free-highlights-sensational-martinez-denies-brighton
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But that is all we do - give it to Jack. And now other teams have sussed us out we cannot change. Dean needs to get his thinking hat on and work on it. Plus some changes might change the mentality a bit, I think there are some in the team who think they are guaranteed a place.
But that’s just it - when we play well it’s not just a case of “give it to Jack”.
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We should all stop, breath, take stock and remember that 12 months ago Bournemouth had just done the double over us, we then lost to Spurs and we we were 17th in the league.
We’re 7th and have been, in the main, excellent
Let’s stop the over reactionary nonsense about a point away from home
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Honest assesment from Dean tonight, said not even bang average and kept giving away to many unforced errors.
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They are the form team (other than ManCity) and we nullified each other. They were better but rarely threatened.
It's another point.
Rarely threatened ? They had 26 shots with 9 on target. I'd hate to see us play a team that did threaten.
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We should all stop, breath, take stock and remember that 12 months ago Bournemouth had just done the double over us, we then lost to Spurs and we we were 17th in the league.
We’re 7th and have been, in the main, excellent
Let’s stop the over reactionary nonsense about a point away from home
8th.
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We should all stop, breath, take stock and remember that 12 months ago Bournemouth had just done the double over us, we then lost to Spurs and we we were 17th in the league.
We’re 7th and have been, in the main, excellent
Let’s stop the over reactionary nonsense about a point away from home
Ok we’re 8th
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Off the pace but we get another clean sheet against an inform side. Unusually sloppy at times but that's the way it goes sometimes. A couple have been off the pace recently and could do with a rest. I really like Bossouma for them, cracking player.
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We should all stop, breath, take stock and remember that 12 months ago Bournemouth had just done the double over us, we then lost to Spurs and we we were 17th in the league.
We’re 7th and have been, in the main, excellent
Let’s stop the over reactionary nonsense about a point away from home
8th.
Noted
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They are the form team (other than ManCity) and we nullified each other. They were better but rarely threatened.
It's another point.
Rarely threatened ? They had 26 shots with 9 on target. I'd hate to see us play a team that did threaten.
We've got Leicester next.
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The big concern is that three out of the last four games, we have conceded more than 20 shots. We were out-creating the opposition consistently pre Covid but now there are concerning signs at both ends. There is no reason to panic, we have come a long way and I am sure we can regroup and improve again but we may have to lower our expectations for this season a smidge.
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Apart from the MacAllister header, they never looked like scoring, regardless of possession or territory. We defended solidly. Everything else...mind blowingly poor.
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The big concern is that three out of the last four games, we have conceded more than 20 shots. We were out-creating the opposition consistently pre Covid but now there are concerning signs at both ends. There is no reason to panic, we have come a long way and I am sure we can regroup and improve again but we may have to lower our expectations for this season a smidge.
My expectation was not being involved in a relegation battle. I think we've exceeded that.
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They are the form team (other than ManCity) and we nullified each other. They were better but rarely threatened.
It's another point.
Rarely threatened ? They had 26 shots with 9 on target. I'd hate to see us play a team that did threaten.
We've got Leicester next.
Who travel to Prague midweek, we win that, mark my words
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We had absolutely nothing in the centre of the park tonight to stem or break up Brighton.
Once Brighton had the ball from their defence they pushed on and split us down the middle or on the flanks.
Anybody on here know why recently our midfield has gone to ratshit ?
Or why we have started to pull back and defend deep?
Certainly Doug is not the player he was 7 game ago.
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Glad of the point and clean sheet in the end. Emi amazing and whole back 4 did their jobs (Mings the pick of the defenders). I think Luiz and McGinn worked hard in front of them, but had no outlet in front of them except Ollie. Barkley and Traore were poor with Jack just marginally better (he seemed to have trouble even trapping the ball to-night).
Ref poor in the 1st half. Dunk needed to be carded after his assault on Ollie. Jack got booked for touching the defender's arm, yet the same defender got no booking for coming through the back of Jack not long after.
In games like this Jack needs to take a free role and as captain needs to be pro-active in encouraging this.
Onto the next game in what is a good season. UTV!
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Apart from the MacAllister header, they never looked like scoring, regardless of possession or territory. We defended solidly. Everything else...mind blowingly poor.
Have to disagree. If we had been Brighton tonight we would have said we should have won that hands down.
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The 20 shots point is true - and I think it stems from the midfield. We need to compete much better - we’ve got slack and sloppy in the midfield of late.
The defence and Emi are brill though.
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I’m glad Dean said it like we saw it. He has the ability now to change it up for Leicester. Sanson did more in a cameo than Barkey did all game. Time to make that change. I worry now though at RB we will have Elmo for a decent period of time. That’s a big step down from Matty Cash.
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The big concern is that three out of the last four games, we have conceded more than 20 shots. We were out-creating the opposition consistently pre Covid but now there are concerning signs at both ends. There is no reason to panic, we have come a long way and I am sure we can regroup and improve again but we may have to lower our expectations for this season a smidge.
My expectation was not being involved in a relegation battle. I think we've exceeded that.
So was mine but like most, Europe has started to look like a realistic possibility and I have been happy to believe. It is a strong league though with no mugs outside the bottom 3. When performance levels dip, it gets very tricky. Luckily, we have a proper backbone now with a back five who collectively take offence at the prospect of conceding.
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Some of our problems tonight, especially in the first half, came from Brighton pressing us all over the pitch, but a lot of our players just failed to react and that includes Grealish who was strolling around at times not looking particularly up for it. Brighton were the much better side 1st half.
In the 2nd half I thought they were better than us, whilst not being that good themselves to be honest, just a poor half of football.
If a team are harassing you all over the pitch, players need to react. The defence all did their job, I thought luiz worked hard actually, Ollie ran around a lot, but everyone else, no energy or willingness to grab the game by the scruff of the neck. We’re also hitting and hoping far to much.
I said last week that Barclay probably needs to be judged after a few weeks training in between games, but was poor tonight and I would start Sanson against Leicester, he looked lively. Traore is a much better player than Trez. But may need Trezs mad headless energy to support Elmo next week, if Cash is out. Two changes are probably enough, but the coaches need to work on maximising the space when teams double up on jack.
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Martinez 8.5 Man of The match
Cash 7
Konsa 5 5
Mings 7.5
Targett 6
Luiz 5
McGinn 5.5
Barkley 5.5
Grealish 5.5
Traore 5
Watkins 7
Subs
Elmore 6
Trezeguet 6
Sanson 6
6.5/10.Anyway put that behind us and bring on Leicester next week
Can play and perform better
As it was a weaker showing. One of those performances from last season though half mark extra for getting a point in a dull attacking effort
Haven't bothered to pen observations for marks on players today after having to suffer that match but Mings, excellent covering blocks and leading the defence to clean sheet. Cash solid till injury and mighty Emi wonderful keeping. Won us the points. Those 3 were our only decent performers tonight as was Watkins who was staved of service
Targett and Konsa showed last season form and thw other 3 had to help them out.
Any of the rest could have been subbed today without complaints including Jack who miscontrolled the ball several times ,and was booked. We had Barkley doing same. And the midfield loose on the ball but Traroe was the worst of the offenders.
Douglas Luiz could have had 2 yellows for repeated fouls and thus sent off.
Up the Villa
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We had absolutely nothing in the centre of the park tonight to stem or break up Brighton.
Once Brighton had the ball from their defence they pushed on and split us down the middle or on the flanks.
Anybody on here know why recently our midfield has gone to ratshit ?
Or why we have started to pull back and defend deep?
Certainly Doug is not the player he was 7 game ago.
Is our defensive line a bit deeper since the Burnley game I wonder? Our midfield has been poor since the second half of that game.
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Douglas Luiz could have had his 2 yellows for repeated fouls and thus sent off.
Don't be silly, he conceded 3 fouls, the same amount as Bissouma, McAllister and Veltman (none of whom were booked). The only other players with 3 fouls were Grealish and Watkins, 1 of whom was also booked. This is a big part of the inconsistency that pissed me off.
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For me we just lacked intensity, a result of tiredness. That should improve as we now don’t play so many games in quick succession
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Sort out your shonky wobbly-arsed controlling of the ball and passing you bunch of ******.
Then all will be beautiful again.
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Quite an unpleasant watch. Constantly giving the ball away. Hoofing, attempted Hollywood passes. We need to get back to our passing game.. teams have worked out Jack and out two on him. We should take advantage of that with other players stepping up. Still we got a difficult point away from home and another clean sheet..
We need to keep our feet on the ground. Have we improved over last year. ?...A very big yes. We are still early in the owners project. We probably need to keep our expectations under control.
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Only saw 2nd half. Brighton way the better team- think we created only a couple of half chances, whilst they were all over us. Defence looked pretty solid though, but a bit worrying Martinez had to make 9 saves. A couple could’ve gone in if we had a poorer GK.
I think Sanson should probably start ahead of Barkley and Trez for Traore if Cash is out. Didn’t even realise McGinn was playing until the camera focused on him late on. But then I’m watching on a phone and the players look like blurry dots most of the time!
Ah well, the recent cycle would’ve suggested a L today. So at least we broke that and came away with a point after not a very good performance.
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No doubting our defensive play and resilience compared to last seasons horrors, but the Burnley game seems to have badly affected our confidence attacking wise. Even the wins against Arsenal and Southampton were very fortunate as were largely outplayed in both. I don't think- save for the first half against Burnley- we've played well since Boxing Day. Bruce would have been ripped apart had tonight's performance happened on his watch.
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No doubting our defensive play and resilience compared to last seasons horrors, but the Burnley game seems to have badly affected our confidence attacking wise. Even the wins against Arsenal and Southampton were very fortunate as were largely outplayed in both. I don't think- save for the first half against Burnley- we've played well since Boxing Day. Bruce would have been ripped apart had tonight's performance happened on his watch.
Quite rightly as well, but a lot of performances like that happened in Bruce's tenure. Hardly comparable to Smith this season.
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Douglas Luiz could have had his 2 yellows for repeated fouls and thus sent off.
Don't be silly, he conceded 3 fouls, the same amount as Bissouma, McAllister and Veltman (none of whom were booked). The only other players with 3 fouls were Grealish and Watkins, 1 of whom was also booked. This is a big part of the inconsistency that pissed me off.
Its just how I saw it I saw him give away fouls that were in dangerous positions and he was booked in part because of his previous fouls that to me were both caution worthy.
If you booked players for the first 2 games would regularly finish as 8 or 9 aside, 1 was him easing the player out and the one he got booked for was shoulder-to-shoulder having just watched one of their players do the same thing to Cash unpunished. If you honestly think he's lucky to not have had 2 yellow cards then I can only assume you've forgotten it's a contact sport. Oh and 3 fouls by Bissouma were all at least as bad, the one on Sanson was, in my opinion, the worst challenge in the game and the ref debated even giving us a free kick for it.
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With Matty Cash likely to be out for a few games, daft to let Guilbert go out on loan!
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Martinez 8.5 Man of The match
Cash 7
Konsa 5 5
Mings 7.5
Targett 6
Luiz 5
McGinn 5.5
Barkley 5.5
Grealish 5.5
Traore 5
Watkins 7
Subs
Elmore 6
Trezeguet 6
Sanson 6
6.5/10.Anyway put that behind us and bring on Leicester next week
Can play and perform better
As it was a weaker showing. One of those performances from last season though half mark extra for getting a point in a dull attacking effort
Haven't bothered to pen observations for marks on players today after having to suffer that match but Mings, excellent covering blocks and leading the defence to clean sheet. Cash solid till injury and mighty Emi wonderful keeping. Won us the points. Those 3 were our only decent performers tonight as was Watkins who was staved of service
Targett and Konsa showed last season form and thw other 3 had to help them out.
Any of the rest could have been subbed today without complaints including Jack who miscontrolled the ball several times ,and was booked. We had Barkley doing same. And the midfield loose on the ball but Traroe was the worst of the offenders.
Douglas Luiz could have had 2 yellows for repeated fouls and thus sent off.
Up the Villa
8.5 for Emi - what does he need to do for 9+!
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I hope we haven't got some stupid clause in the Barkley loan that means he has to play.
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With Matty Cash likely to be out for a few games, daft to let Guilbert go out on loan!
How did you expect them to predict that Matty Cash was going to be out for a few games two weeks later? It's not like we haven't any back-up. AEH is perfectly ok for a week or two if need be.
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I hope we haven't got some stupid clause in the Barkley loan that means he has to play.
The Schmeichel factor?
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I think the turning point was West Ham at home. They came with a game plan to close out our midfield threat and take away the threat posed by Jack. They doubled up on him and niggled the life out of him and wore him down. Against Arsenal they didn't use such a plan as they rely on their own ability rather than concentrating on stopping their opponents but they weren't good enough on the day.So that's where we're at now. Top teams play us their own way lesser clubs like Brighton and West Ham plan to stop us and then pick us off. It's now over to our coaching staff to find ways to out manoeuvre our respective opponents.
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I think the turning point was West Ham at home. They came with a game plan to close out our midfield threat and take away the threat posed by Jack. They doubled up on him and niggled the life out of him and wore him down. Against Arsenal they didn't use such a plan as they rely on their own ability rather than concentrating on stopping their opponents but they weren't good enough on the day.So that's where we're at now. Top teams play us their own way lesser clubs like Brighton and West Ham plan to stop us and then pick us off. It's now over to our coaching staff to find ways to out manoeuvre our respective opponents.
This is where we need Barkley and Traore to step up. Neither of them got involved enough today when it was pretty clear that they had lined up to have 2-3 players around Jack whenever he got the ball. There should've bene planty of space but they just didn't do enough to find it.
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McGinn and Doug haven’t been tight for about the last 7 games.
Barkley on his return apart from his fab head winning goal - let’s be honest has been dreadful. Love to see his pass completion record.
We have the defending and keeper to thank for.
Jack who I think is the best thing since sliced bread - hasn’t been nowhere near his best - for a long time.
DS and CS need to get their thinking caps on.
Because - I believe we still have the talent and drive to get into Europe.
Just need to adapt quicker than the other teams in the last 16 games.
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Tough one, I think we need to be a bit braver and sacrifice Jack a bit, keep him very high and wide left and get players closer to him to switch the ball to take advantage of gaps elsewhere. We need to be a bit braver in pushing players up, we didn’t do that tonight, they set the tempo.
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Another thing from tonight that bugged me was the amount of times Byrne who plays in defence on the left of a three got forward and became a threat to us. For me that's a result of playing with a lone striker. We need to get on the training ground and sort a few things out. I still believe in the team and the management. It's been a brilliant season so far and I can't wait to get in the ground and cheer em on.
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I think our 'Expected Goals' tonight could be one of the lowest ever figures recorded..
The midfield players lacked any energy or urgency and we constantly gave the ball away unnecessarily when under no pressure.
Martínez was excellent and I thought Mings and Targett did well, but mostly it was like watching a performance from last season.
Barkley may have scored the winner at Southampton but he's been way off it since he came back, and McGinn and Luiz are well below par too.
Grealish was anonymous tonight, but I'm tiring of Smith's tactic of playing him wide left. We were more effective in December when Barkley was out and we played two inverted wingers.
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In the context of the season I'm delighted with a point. The performance wasn't good but sometimes that's what happens.
Keep enjoying the ride, there will be better, there will be worse, but there won't be a struggle and that in itself is a triumph.
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Grealish was anonymous tonight, but I'm tiring of Smith's tactic of playing him wide left. We were more effective in December when Barkley was out and we played two inverted wingers.
The midfield is really struggling and we haven’t looked fluid for a while. Maybe since that first half against Burnley. You do make a great point, we did look far more balanced in December.
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I think our 'Expected Goals' tonight could be one of the lowest ever figures recorded..
The midfield players lacked any energy or urgency and we constantly gave the ball away unnecessarily when under no pressure.
Martínez was excellent and I thought Mings and Targett did well, but mostly it was like watching a performance from last season.
Barkley may have scored the winner at Southampton but he's been way off it since he came back, and McGinn and Luiz are well below par too.
Grealish was anonymous tonight, but I'm tiring of Smith's tactic of playing him wide left. We were more effective in December when Barkley was out and we played two inverted wingers.
I agree with your point about Jack. He seemed to be walking quite a bit tonight and at times didn't look like he was too happy with the role he's playing.
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I think the turning point was West Ham at home. They came with a game plan to close out our midfield threat and take away the threat posed by Jack. They doubled up on him and niggled the life out of him and wore him down. Against Arsenal they didn't use such a plan as they rely on their own ability rather than concentrating on stopping their opponents but they weren't good enough on the day.So that's where we're at now. Top teams play us their own way lesser clubs like Brighton and West Ham plan to stop us and then pick us off. It's now over to our coaching staff to find ways to out manoeuvre our respective opponents.
Last 15-20 mins that game, Jack moved inside and caused a lot of problems. We need him playing a lot closer to Watkins. Leicesters two full backs today were average at best with Ricardo out of position on the left. Wouldn't be surprised to see Rodgers switch to a back three against us if Fofana is back to try and keep Jack quiet again.
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I think Jack starting from the left is best for the team, we do seem slow to change things when it’s not working though, maybe because the bench isn’t strong enough
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We've been pretty poor since the Burnley first half for me, 4 and a half games where we haven't looked cohesive at all moving forwards. Mcginn, Luiz and Barkley aren't working at the moment, something has to give. Credit for keeping shape defensively and toughing out a point but overall poor again.
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I think Jack starting from the left is best for the team, we do seem slow to change things when it’s not working though, maybe because the bench isn’t strong enough
That's one criticism of Smith. He very rarely changes the formation or changes tactics. A substitution is usually made on a like-for-like basis.
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They are the form team (other than ManCity) and we nullified each other. They were better but rarely threatened.
It's another point.
Rarely threatened ? They had 26 shots with 9 on target. I'd hate to see us play a team that did threaten.
I honestly never felt like they would score.
We looked far less likely of course. Perhaps Martinez has given me that much confidence.
Barkley tried all sorts and nothing came off. McGinn has been trying a lot of fancy passes that haven't worked too. That combination needs to change.
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I think Smith's teams are well known for hitting a sticky patch mid season. If this is ours then I'm so be it. We're still picking up points without hitting the heights we've become accustomed to. Looking forward to them getting back on track and a season finale to remember. I haven't felt so optimistic in many years so a couple of under par performances aren't going to spoil all the good work that's been done up to now.
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Maybe Sansom and Grealish moved in to the middle and Trezeguet out wide.
McGinn Sansom
Grealish
Traore Trez
Watkins
I haven't been impressed with Luiz for much of this season and Barkley has gone massively off the boil since his return from injury. Trez, if over his covid was offering us massive work rate when we looked a better team earlier in the season.
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A point from playing badly is an improvement of sorts I suppose, and it's another clean sheet thanks to the brilliant Martinez. Another game though following West Ham, where we had no answer whatsoever to Jack being marked out of the game. Barkley continues to do absolutely nothing of note. Not alone there of course, but he won't having his move made permanent at this rate, he's been below par for weeks now, and the excuses are wearing thin.
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Good point,poor attacking performance we won a lot of possession, but constantly gave it back with either poor control ,our lack of players in free space. Brighton pressed well and Veltman did a great job man marking Jack, our response to this was disappointing, I don’t think we moved the ball to The right enough to counter act this. overall getting points from this type of performance is very positive
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8.5 for Emi - what does he need to do for 9+!
Score the winner up the other end in Footy-Vill's eyes.
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I think the turning point was West Ham at home. They came with a game plan to close out our midfield threat and take away the threat posed by Jack. They doubled up on him and niggled the life out of him and wore him down. Against Arsenal they didn't use such a plan as they rely on their own ability rather than concentrating on stopping their opponents but they weren't good enough on the day.So that's where we're at now. Top teams play us their own way lesser clubs like Brighton and West Ham plan to stop us and then pick us off. It's now over to our coaching staff to find ways to out manoeuvre our respective opponents.
Exactly my thoughts. Was thinking of posting something similar.
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I like Barkley, the player who played brilliantly in his first three or four games, that player took the pressure off Grealish and was a standout. The player i am seeing now is a shadow of that and has been for many games, DS needs to bite the bullet and play him off the bench at best.
We have made the least changes to the starting eleven that any other club and it is starting to show, the attacking drive has faded, mainly i believe because the midfield performances have dropped away forcing the attack to drop deeper. Still time to get ti right again.
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That's two poor performances in three games now, and we seem to be slipping back into last season's bad habit of letting teams have 20+ shots a game, which we can't keep doing. This season's bad habit is following up a good performance and a win with a below average one. Disappointing after a week's training with no midweek game.
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I like Barkley, the player who played brilliantly in his first three or four games, that player took the pressure off Grealish and was a standout. The player i am seeing now is a shadow of that and has been for many games, DS needs to bite the bullet and play him off the bench at best.
We have made the least changes to the starting eleven that any other club and it is starting to show, the attacking drive has faded, mainly i believe because the midfield performances have dropped away forcing the attack to drop deeper. Still time to get ti right again.
Agree. Thought we lacked energy tonight and looked tired. Thought the midfield three were particularly poor, lacked sharpens and gave the ball away far too many times. Even Grealish has looked jaded the last couple of games.
Thought we defended pretty well tonight and Martinez was excellent. Thought the starting full-backs did OK, but Elmohamady was woeful when he came on (in the week he was a pointless answer on Pointless as well!!).
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The ability to adapt quickly is “massive”- with a team with decent/good players - now what’s the PL is all about. It doesn’t stand still. It’s now week to week.
The teams with 2 good/and 2/3 very good players will be top 8.
We have 2 good players/ 2 very good players and one world class player.
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That's two poor performances in three games now, and we seem to be slipping back into last season's bad habit of letting teams have 20+ shots a game, which we can't keep doing. This season's bad habit is following up a good performance and a win with a below average one. Disappointing after a week's training with no midweek game.
True Risso
But Dean’s teams tend to go on winning streaks about this time of this season.
“Which would be nice”
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We for the most part looked like the team that played midweek in the cup and got beat in the last minute. The lack of any energy and movement was startling. A lot of sloppiness too in midfield emphasised to a point in case you might not agree by that easy unchallenged pass Luiz made on the left which went out for a throw. It’s no surprise that Brighton dominated when you have two of ours who were more of a hindrance than anything else. Traore and Barkley should both be dropped for the next game. Ramsey and Sanson to start.
Our keeper won us a point aided by some good defending. So, something positive to take from the game. Hope we can get back firing next week.
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Quite an unpleasant watch. Constantly giving the ball away. Hoofing, attempted Hollywood passes. We need to get back to our passing game.. teams have worked out Jack and out two on him. We should take advantage of that with other players stepping up. Still we got a difficult point away from home and another clean sheet..
We need to keep our feet on the ground. Have we improved over last year. ?...A very big yes. We are still early in the owners project. We probably need to keep our expectations under control.
Agree with all except the last point. When you spend the kind of money we have, you are within your right to expect more. I'm delighted Dean thinks likewise. If we'd had the same opportunities Brighton had, I'd be gutted we hadn't scored 3 or 4.
I'm putting tonight down to we're still knackered but we were piss poor.
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Emi is beginning to look world-class, hope we can keep him long-term, 9/10.
Thought Targett and Mings were decent (7/10), everyone else was a poor 5/10 except Barkley who is lucky to get -5/10.
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hope we aren't going to regret letting Fred out on loan.
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I thought Emi’s save at the end from Wellbeck was astonishing.
It was right in front of Emi, low down, and he was still able to react, get down and push it round the post.
Incredible.
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We’ve played better and got nothing in other games. A bonus clean sheet when we deserved next to nothing.
We struggled with the basics. Lack of movement. Struggled to string passes together. We really looked off the pace. Let’s hope it was a one off. Probably one of the worst games we’ve played in 12 months
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Barkley, Grealish and Traore all had quiet games.
If a team is going to double up on Grealish you need to have your other attacking players offering something and we didn’t. This was a bit like like season, stop Grealish and you stop any threat we have.
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A good point; shit viewing, apart from our keeper.
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On reflection I now know how Burnley felt after they left Villa Park earlier in the season.
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On numerous occasions our forward press was pathetic.
Grealish, Traore, Watkins and Barkley got in a position to press Brighton's defenders but apart from Watkins never actually put a challenge in. Too many token gestures and not enough fight.
As a result, one or two simple Brighton passes and our top four was bypassed and our midfield exposed. Contrast that to the Brighton forwards, they were at our heels all match and worked ten times harder.
Our forwards backtracking also leaves a lot to be desired.
No wonder it was a 'backs to the wall' performance and we have our defenders and keeper to thank for a lucky point. ;)
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On numerous occasions our forward press was pathetic.
Grealish, Traore, Watkins and Barkley got in a position to press Brighton's defenders but apart from Watkins never actually put a challenge in. Too many token gestures and not enough fight.
As a result, one or two simple Brighton passes and our top four was bypassed and our midfield exposed. Contrast that to the Brighton forwards, they were at our heels all match and worked ten times harder.
Our forwards backtracking also leaves a lot to be desired.
No wonder it was a 'backs to the wall' performance and we have our defenders and keeper to thank for a lucky point. ;)
This is a good point. Watkins as always ran his socks of, but the other 3 were lacklustre, even in the first half, the amount of times Grealish was walking around and Barclay and Traore but real lame efforts in to challenge for the ball, was very frustrating.
I don’t think Smith will make wholesale changes to the team for the Leicester game, and I don’t think we have the squad to make 3 or 4 changes, especially against one of the best teams in the league.
Saying that, Trez whilst not having a lot of quality just did the basics like run around and put the Brighton defence and midfield under a bit of pressure and Sanson did the same. They have to both come in for me for Traore and Barclay, for next week at least.
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Better to sleep on it than comment in the moment, as I find watching it on the TV so much more frustrating than being at the game.
Positives
Back 5 solid. Brighton never really looked like scoring beyond the MacAllister header. Martinez made some good stops, but nothing a top 3 keeper shouldn't be making.
Mings was a constant organising presence and played well.
Sansom looked bright when he came on. Good touch and energy, thought he got really hacked down by a very physical and snide opposition. He'd be starting for me against Leicester.
Negatives
Position of the midfield. I've started with this as there are a few interlinked issues, but the first is Luiz and McGinn are way too deep. There's huge gaps to transition out wide and to Watkins, it causes us to go long and we are not a big side.
Ball retention, that's linked to the above, but last night was just wow. I thought Luiz summed it up late on by knocking a ball out of play under no pressure, 10 yards from Targett. But then Konsa booted a free kick straight to them.
McGinn was perhaps the most guilty; 3 clearances in a matter of minutes straight to them. Barkely was atrocious and seemed to forget the colours we play in.
Isolating Jack. Teams are going to try and stop us and we need to say OK, double up with your clogging wing backs, we're going to push Jack into a false 9 and let him float. You chase him round the pitch and let McGinn pull wider to cover space.
The lack of ball retention and deep midfield saw us denied any territory and the full backs suffered by not getting forward, negating one of our outlets.
Cash being injured is a huge blow as my God, Elmo is nowhere near Premier League level, never mind top 8.
A wretched performance, the worst of the season, but we got a point. If you're not going to win, don't lose. We were fortunate to play such a poor side, as quite frankly Brighton are utterly woeful in the final 3rd, otherwise we'd be hammered by anybody half way decent last night.
I would go back to the drawing board slightly against Leicester and tweak that midfield. McGinn and Barkely should 100% not start. Dougie did enough off the ball to retain his place and he has a week to recalibrate his radar.
Leicester looked very poor at full back yesterday, the right back in particular. Sansom and Ramsey to come in as 8s in front of Dougie sitting to actually press and put some time into them. Think Leicester will go with a diamond and with Jack floating more inside, I think we ought to be more competitive.
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Really awful performance, one of the worst in ages with the exception of the keeper. What is pleasing though is the habit of playing like that and not losing. Going the right way still and we’ll keep improving
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I’m sorry to say it but we haven’t been as good since Barkley was bought straight back into the team. But what we also seem incapable of working out is that when Jack is marked by two players it should create space for the likes of Barkley and McGinn. However we are still lumping it to Jack in the hope something will happen.
I also think Nakamba is very unlucky. It does seem some players are undroppable.
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Really awful performance, one of the worst in ages with the exception of the keeper. What is pleasing though is the habit of playing like that and not losing. Going the right way still and we’ll keep improving
You can include Mings, Konsa, Targett and Cash with Martinez. We have to take some of the positives.
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We've been poor for 5 games by and large but still taken 7 points, which is a positive. Ads pointed out about the long ball, their centre backs won 11 headers against Watkins 4. Our centre backs won 2 headers and their forwards 0. 15 ariel duels in their final third compared to 2 in ours. We should not be playing the high ball 7 times more often than Brighton with a smaller side. Very poor.
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Thw two worst performances of the season have come in the last three games. If we don't improve against Leicester they'll bury us. I don't think Vardy will fail to score if we give up 20 odd chances to them.
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Isolating Jack. Teams are going to try and stop us and we need to say OK, double up with your clogging wing backs, we're going to push Jack into a false 9 and let him float. You chase him round the pitch and let McGinn pull wider to cover space.
This is where Smith really frustrates me. It was clear after an hour that it was not working and we needed to make a change. We were more likely to lose the game than win it and better sides make changes to influence the game.
Any change to get Jack more central and closer to Watkins would have made us more of a threat and helped us keep the ball better.
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Better to sleep on it than comment in the moment, as I find watching it on the TV so much more frustrating than being at the game.
.... we ought to be more competitive.
I too decided not to comment on here last night.
I pretty much agree with everything you've said (apart from the spelling of Sanson). I particularly thought that the whole defensive set-up was too deep - Luiz and McGinn needed to come forward 10-12 meters. Furthermore, JG needs to offer a moving target for opponents: if they are doubling up on him on the left, take a more floating role and push the starting no.10 wider to maintain the width.
I thought we'd draw before the match, so I'm okay with the result; but it was a painful viewing.
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I like Barkley, the player who played brilliantly in his first three or four games, that player took the pressure off Grealish and was a standout. The player i am seeing now is a shadow of that and has been for many games, DS needs to bite the bullet and play him off the bench at best.
We have made the least changes to the starting eleven that any other club and it is starting to show, the attacking drive has faded, mainly i believe because the midfield performances have dropped away forcing the attack to drop deeper. Still time to get ti right again.
only saw half of this match, but pretty much agree on what you’ve said
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I thought Emi’s save at the end from Wellbeck was astonishing.
It was right in front of Emi, low down, and he was still able to react, get down and push it round the post.
Incredible.
completely agree with that Andyh- that looked nailed on to go in. Goalmouth flurry and you’re thinking ‘oh fk’ but he kept it out with his knee I think. Any other keeper and we’d have lost, maybe 2 or 3 nil from what I saw.
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Agree with everything Ads said. The root of all our problems lies in that midfield, the shape and balance isn’t right and it’s easily nullified. The management brains trust needs to work it out. That said the levels of effort from Grealish, Barkley and Traore were woeful.
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Putting last night into context. Five years ago today we were being battered 6-0 at home to Liverpool. With Joleon tweeting his new car straight after.
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I don't really understand why we couldn't change shape. Or why it took an injury before we made our first substitution. Maybe sticking to what we knew got us a point, but it was a lousy performance.
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Really awful performance, one of the worst in ages with the exception of the keeper. What is pleasing though is the habit of playing like that and not losing. Going the right way still and we’ll keep improving
You can include Mings, Konsa, Targett and Cash with Martinez. We have to take some of the positives.
Yes absolutely right but then I’ve never doubted the defence particularly Mings as good a defence as anywhere in the PL
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Better to sleep on it than comment in the moment, as I find watching it on the TV so much more frustrating than being at the game.
.... we ought to be more competitive.
I too decided not to comment on here last night.
I pretty much agree with everything you've said (apart from the spelling of Sanson). I particularly thought that the whole defensive set-up was too deep - Luiz and McGinn needed to come forward 10-12 meters. Furthermore, JG needs to offer a moving target for opponents: if they are doubling up on him on the left, take a more floating role and push the starting no.10 wider to maintain the width.
I thought we'd draw before the match, so I'm okay with the result; but it was a painful viewing.
my phone was auto-correcting it to Sansom last night.
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I like Ads idea of Jack as a false 9 but I would have Ollie and Traore as wide forwards with McGinn and Sanson as 8s either side of Dougie.The brief being quick short passing.
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Not too much to say other than what everyone else has already said, it was pretty awful.
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Dreadful performance, the good news we have along with Ederson and Pope the best keeper in the league, he was superb and gave a very honest after match interview, basically saying we were rubbish. Back 4 were also very good and it's great to see Mings back to best, and that's the end of the good news.
It's time Dean made some changes, Barkley clearly needs to be dropped, I would start with Sanson next match, to give him just 15 minutes yesterday was a nonsense. Jack has been ineffective on the wing, needs to be moved to a more central role, a position I have always thought is he's best.
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Agree with Ads
Barkley, McGinn, Luiz and Traore have been poor for some while. Drop 3 of them and bring in 3 of Ramsay, Samson, Trez and Marvellous (who I really don’t rate but did ok against Arsenal). Need to get JG free to roam and not stuck out of the left wing
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I'd consider putting Jack back in the middle and AEG on the left wing. I know he was terrible against West Ham, but before Barkley came back in he was on fire.
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I’d definitely put Jack in the hole...
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I partially blame Smith for Barkley and the midfield issues, hes playing far too forward which sometimes leaves a massive gap behind for the opposition to dominate our 2.
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with Barkley in the team and Jack and Traore playing quite high up, it's practically a 4-2-4 - it's leaving McGinn and Luiz with too much to do.
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It's in the Club's DNA to go on really long losing runs, sometimes you can see them coming, sometimes they are inexplicable.
We are actually in one now, but the magic of this season, sheer force of will, Martinez and the defence, or something else, has pulled off draws and wins where other Villa teams would have collapsed by now. So that's my positive from this, and I hope we suddenly spring back into life next week.
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Its a mystery where the free flowing, fluid football in that first half at Burnley has gone. Covid maybe having a bigger influence than we thought. It was like a training game last night. Poor from the kick-off to final whistle. Shape needed changing. It is amazing that 4 experienced coaches couldn't see that. Just another body with more energy in the middle could have won us the game.
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I dont think Bert has been that poor recently , he had a good game against Arsenal Barkley is the problem , why Bert gets taken off instead of Barkley when he looked like Bert was getting more of the ball second half and didnt lose it as much as Barkley . Should have been Morgan for Barkley at HT and not Trez for Bert .
Morgan has to start next game for Barkley , I might be tempted to play JJ for SJM but cant see DS dropping both Barkley and SJM.
anyway very poor performance , its great to have a class goalie who looks like a proper leader too.
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Who's JJ?
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Its a mystery where the free flowing, fluid football in that first half at Burnley has gone. Covid maybe having a bigger influence than we thought. It was like a training game last night. Poor from the kick-off to final whistle. Shape needed changing. It is amazing that 4 experienced coaches couldn't see that. Just another body with more energy in the middle could have won us the game.
Burnley stood off us a mile in that first half and we destroyed them (everywhere bar the score sheet). We haven't been great since then really, midfield particularly but Watkins and Grealish still have carried a threat going forward. Neither of them did last night unfortunately. I think we are struggling against three centre backs like West Ham and Brighton did. It gets Grealish involved in a game of cat and mouse with the opposition wing back and has Watkins up against three CBs.
We definitely need something different against Leicester . Despite the scoreline, Leicester were very average yesterday. Both full backs can definitely be got at. Very dangerous on the counter obviously.
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We've struggled against teams that don't give us time on the ball. In addition last night everyone forward of the back 5 struggled to do even the basics.
When it's not working & we make changes, it's never a change to the shape. Additionally those on the bench don't actually offer any improvement.
Last night I thought Davies up front, with Watkins on the left & Grealish as the No10 would have meant we got the ball forward & it may have stuck. Meaning we could get into their final third.
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Who's JJ?
Maybe he was thinking of Abrahams forgetting he's back at Chelski.
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Who's JJ?
Jacob Ramsey.
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Who's JJ?
Julian Joachim.
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It really doesn't help me in my dotage. Whenever anyone uses 'JG' for Grealish, my first fleeting thought is normally, 'What's John Gregory got to do with this?'
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What's clear now is there's work to do on the training ground. What was working so well was epitomised in the first half against Burnley. Basically I think we've been sussed. West Ham showed how to wreck our attacking game plan and the rest will now follow suit. I've been a fan of Barkley but he definitely needs benching now. Could be Sanson's chance as he looked a lot more mobile than Ross and I'd like to see him start against Leicester. Make no mistake if we approach the Leicester game the same as last night they will beat us and Vardy would be the difference. The coaching staff need to show their worth now to preserve what we have achieved so far. The team needs a boost and a fresh impetus with a bit of squad rotation. Last night was lethargic and we had to dig deep to get a point. I was shocked by how many of our players seemed to struggle with the basics like controlling the ball and that includes Jack. Overall though it's still been a surprisingly good season with some top class performances and we're definitely heading in the right direction.
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Who's JJ?
JJ Watt of the Houston Texans. He’s available and the defensive midfielder we’ve all been craving.
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Great display by Emi but this was a bore draw.
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Don’t usually like to comment on tactics because usually so much hinges on player performance and then things slip into place.
It’s an interesting point about when we come up against 5 at the back and it’s effect on nullifying Jacks influence. I would like to see a plan B when this happens. Should that include giving Jack a free role but ensuring Targett still gets support down that side of the pitch?
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Who's JJ?
Jeff Jarrett
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What's clear now is there's work to do on the training ground. What was working so well was epitomised in the first half against Burnley. Basically I think we've been sussed. West Ham showed how to wreck our attacking game plan and the rest will now follow suit. I've been a fan of Barkley but he definitely needs benching now. Could be Sanson's chance as he looked a lot more mobile than Ross and I'd like to see him start against Leicester. Make no mistake if we approach the Leicester game the same as last night they will beat us and Vardy would be the difference. The coaching staff need to show their worth now to preserve what we have achieved so far. The team needs a boost and a fresh impetus with a bit of squad rotation. Last night was lethargic and we had to dig deep to get a point. I was shocked by how many of our players seemed to struggle with the basics like controlling the ball and that includes Jack. Overall though it's still been a surprisingly good season with some top class performances and we're definitely heading in the right direction.
I think you're right. Our 'Plan A' is very good when it works, but right now it isn't, and we don't seem to have a Plan B when Grealish gets marked out of a game. Smith also doesn't appear to have the tactical nouse to make changes that alter the course of game when things are going badly. Barkley isn't playing well, and the McGinn/Luiz partnership isn't working. We could either move Jack more centrally and start with Traore and Trez out wide, or play Sanson next to Luiz and move McGinn further forward. or even vice versa. Need to do something though.
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It was ever thus .......a "should win game " that takes us to the " next level" and we fail to take the opportunity ....extremely frustrating
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What's clear now is there's work to do on the training ground. What was working so well was epitomised in the first half against Burnley. Basically I think we've been sussed. West Ham showed how to wreck our attacking game plan and the rest will now follow suit. I've been a fan of Barkley but he definitely needs benching now. Could be Sanson's chance as he looked a lot more mobile than Ross and I'd like to see him start against Leicester. Make no mistake if we approach the Leicester game the same as last night they will beat us and Vardy would be the difference. The coaching staff need to show their worth now to preserve what we have achieved so far. The team needs a boost and a fresh impetus with a bit of squad rotation. Last night was lethargic and we had to dig deep to get a point. I was shocked by how many of our players seemed to struggle with the basics like controlling the ball and that includes Jack. Overall though it's still been a surprisingly good season with some top class performances and we're definitely heading in the right direction.
I think you're right. Our 'Plan A' is very good when it works, but right now it isn't, and we don't seem to have a Plan B when Grealish gets marked out of a game. Smith also doesn't appear to have the tactical nouse to make changes that alter the course of game when things are going badly. Barkley isn't playing well, and the McGinn/Luiz partnership isn't working. We could either move Jack more centrally and start with Traore and Trez out wide, or play Sanson next to Luiz and move McGinn further forward. or even vice versa. Need to do something though.
Brendan Roger's interview after the Leicester v Liverpool game was interesting. He said "we had a plan to change our shape during the second half and it worked" Not knocking Dean and his team but it strikes me that's something we don't seem to have. We have a game plan at the start of the match but when that's not working we don't seem able to alter it. All we do is like for like substitutions and hope for an improvement. In game management is something that needs improvement for sure.
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I am not sure it was tactical failings that did for us last night. I think we just had too many poor individual performances. Apart from Martinez did anyone else in the team put in a particularly good performance?
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Dean said pre-match he first of all wanted us to be hard to beat and that was accomplished. That said we never looked like creating anything further up the pitch. Gone are the days of Targett regularly pushing forward or overlapping, he's obviously been instructed to remain back. On the other side Matty usually has his hands full but neither are adding to our attacking game.
Plenty to do this coming week at BH.
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I am not sure it was tactical failings that did for us last night. I think we just had too many poor individual performances. Apart from Martinez did anyone else in the team put in a particularly good performance?
Tactics deployed by other team nullified our better players making them look poor. We have to keep evolving in order to win matches.
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I am not sure it was tactical failings that did for us last night. I think we just had too many poor individual performances. Apart from Martinez did anyone else in the team put in a particularly good performance?
I agree with that. So many poor performances all around the side.
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Who's JJ?
Bass player in the stranglers
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By my reckoning we haven't conceded a goal in a Saturday game since the home defeat to Brighton almost 3 months ago. So it's a shame we're playing Leicester on Sunday.
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As frustrating as it may be we have come a very long way in 12 months. Instead of looking down we are looking up and I can live with that having put up with shit for so many years. Small steps eventually turn into big strides
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That’s quite true CCR, we have made superb progress since last season.
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We're safe - We've made a monumental shift as a football club since June, so I'm not going to hammer them for one or two bad performances. If you'd have said we were going to be disappointed about not pushing into European places after 20 odd games, I'd have snapped your hand off!
Martinez gets the plaudits for last night, but I think Mings has been much improved the last few games - Cutting out the occasional brain farts, getting into great covering positions and just pumping it into Row Z when not 100% sure he can bring it down and pass it - Long may it continue!
The worrying thing for me is that Dean really needs to figure out a way of playing when opposing teams take Jack out of the game. West Ham and now Brighton have both done a number on him in recent games and we look toothless as a result.
Barkley needs dropping - Early promise has fizzled away, doesn't look fit, or even a worthy addition in the summer. I'd bring Sanson in against Leicester, with both him and McGinn patrolling the midfield with Luiz protecting the back four.
Losing Cash is a worry. Love Elmo, but would feel much more confident with the way more mobile Guilbert in there.
Bad day at the office - Lets put it right against Leicester.
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It’s easy to get despondent but the bottom line is that we have made huge leaps forward this season and, if we simply average the same points per game through end of the season, we will likely finish around 6th which, aside the real dreamers, is way better than we could have hoped.
These last few games also show how far we still have to go to rise further - we are not yet IMO anywhere near a top 4 side because we need more strength in depth, we need at least one more serious playmaker to take some of the load off of Jack (big summer investment needed), and we need to find the consistency that top sides display through a season. We have shown we can mix it with the big boys but not yet consistently.
Bad day at the office yet we still came away with a point (another sign of progress) and in Emi, the back 4, Jack, Doug, and Ollie I’d argue we have the spine we need (they will get better). McGinn has been spotty for some time now, Ross flatters to deceive, Morgan we need to see more of, and the rest are all IMO squad players.
3 or 4 big additions and I don’t think we are far off at all.
Very very exciting times. UTV
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A point, away from home, with another clean sheet.
Performance aside that's not a bad return is it?
It's a positive that we're all feeling so disappointed.
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Who's JJ?
Bass player in the stranglers
I went to see the Stranglers at the O2 Academy before lockdown with Dr feelgood In support
They were brilliant
I’m really missing live events football, gigs, pubs whatever
Can’t wait till its all over
Sorry for the downer I’ve drunk a bottle of wine plus
And feeling sorry for myself with the World being in such a shit state at the Mo
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If this is our bad patch, then 10 points from 5 games is pretty good. We seldom get anything when we're poor, something we've let opposition get away with for years.
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If this is our bad patch, then 10 points from 5 games is pretty good. We seldom get anything when we're poor, something we've let opposition get away with for years.
I was thinking the same thing but didnt want to say it! But yeah, hopefully this is our bad patch. If it is, we've come on by leaps and bounds as the 2 seasons previous would've seen us get nothing at all.
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By my reckoning we haven't conceded a goal in a Saturday game since the home defeat to Brighton almost 3 months ago. So it's a shame we're playing Leicester on Sunday.
Actually it's good as I have a firm belief that law of averages says that we will in the next Saturday game.
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Edit. Fucked up my message
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I still cant get my head around how poor we were yesterday, we haven't been great over the last few weeks tbf but we are picking up points when not at our best.
Off the top of my head Southampton, Westham, Arsenal and Brighton all had close too or over 20 shots on our goal, thats back to last seasons form, thankfully we have the best GK in the League.
World.
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I have not watched every full game as I don't have all the sports channels - but Saturday is the worst attacking performance I have seen from us this season
Thankfully the defence and especially our goalkeeper got us a draw
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Who's JJ?
Jacob
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If this is our bad patch, then 10 points from 5 games is pretty good. We seldom get anything when we're poor, something we've let opposition get away with for years.
It's 7 points from 5 games (Burnley, Southampton, West Ham, Arsenal & Brighton)
In those 5 games I'd say we've played well for 1 half (Burnley). The points haul is by no means disasterous, but we have ridden our luck and have to be thankful for some great keeping and 2 (in my opinion) very lucky VAR decisions against Southampton (I know we've been on the end of similar, but that doesn't mask the form point)
So yes, compared to last season we are doing brilliantly and have a lot to be thankful for. But in terms of form we are really struggling and if we can't find a solution it would be a shame if the promise we have shown fizzles out. If we finish around 10th-12th, from where we've come from that would be great. But it will feel like an opportunity missed, particulary the sharks circling around Jack.
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If this is our bad patch, then 10 points from 5 games is pretty good. We seldom get anything when we're poor, something we've let opposition get away with for years.
It's 7 points from 5 games (Burnley, Southampton, West Ham, Arsenal & Brighton)
In those 5 games I'd say we've played well for 1 half (Burnley). The points haul is by no means disasterous, but we have ridden our luck and have to be thankful for some great keeping and 2 (in my opinion) very lucky VAR decisions against Southampton (I know we've been on the end of similar, but that doesn't mask the form point)
So yes, compared to last season we are doing brilliantly and have a lot to be thankful for. But in terms of form we are really struggling and if we can't find a solution it would be a shame if the promise we have shown fizzles out. If we finish around 10th-12th, from where we've come from that would be great. But it will feel like an opportunity missed, particulary the sharks circling around Jack.
good points, our form has been poor and the stats show this. We can not rely on a defence constantly getting us out of jail if we are allowing 20 attempts on goal every game, eventualy we will concede as we did West Ham and Burnley.
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We will do very well to maintain our form we showed in the first half of the season over the second half of the season. Most sides will have a good half of the season and less so with the other half of the season. Whether we can or can't maintain that form will be a really good indicator of where we are in our recovery.
As for our form, it's not as if we're alone there. You only have to look at Tottenham and Everton for other contenders for the European spots to see others who are struggling for form. Then consider the size of Tottenham's squad and how much both have been able to invest into their squads in recent years. They're doing no better than us with far more time and money spent in improving themselves.
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For what it's worth, I thought we were poor.
McGinn and Barkley need benching, but I doubt it will happen.
Just my opinion of course.
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I wonder if some teams have now got us sussed- double up and Jack and you nullify the attacking threat. If that is the case its more reason to be a little disappointed with Barkley as he should be feeding on the extra space around him. Also I wonder if the CoVid break served to take the edge of our play as the performances have generally been behind those pre isolation break.
This is where Dean Smith could pull off a tactical master stroke by changing formation, potentially giving Jack a freedom to roam across and behind the forward line, pushing John McGinn further forward, swapping Barkley for Sanson to take McGinns place in central/defensive midfield, starting with Trez and using Traore as impact sub if needed. Whilst there are advantages in having a settled side/formation perhaps taking the risk and being flexible would give the Villa the upper hand in games to come.
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I wonder if some teams have now got us sussed- double up and Jack and you nullify the attacking threat. If that is the case its more reason to be a little disappointed with Barkley as he should be feeding on the extra space around him. Also I wonder if the CoVid break served to take the edge of our play as the performances have generally been behind those pre isolation break.
This is where Dean Smith could pull off a tactical master stroke by changing formation, potentially giving Jack a freedom to roam across and behind the forward line, pushing John McGinn further forward, swapping Barkley for Sanson to take McGinns place in central/defensive midfield, starting with Trez and using Traore as impact sub if needed. Whilst there are advantages in having a settled side/formation perhaps taking the risk and being flexible would give the Villa the upper hand in games to come.
He definitely needs to work something out if this going to be the tactic to double up on Jack, as it seems to be very effective in stopping him so far.
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Just don't understand why folk persist with the view that we 'got lucky with VAR' against the Saints. In fact, the ref (Mason FFS!) got two marginal decisions perfectly correct as was confirmed by the review system.
It's when the VAR system gets it horribly wrong (see W Ham away) when people should complain.
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Oh and Man City, of course!