Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: montague on February 04, 2021, 10:32:46 AM
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Sorry for a glass half empty question but if you discount our flying first 4 games, since then we have played 16 won 6 lost 8 with a GD of +1. A points ratio of 1.25 gets you about 13th/14th in the league. We have improved massively of course and play some really good football at times but in reality to talk of Europe seems premature as we still lose too many games and are probably a mid table side at best.
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We are good against opposition who give us the space to play in an open game.
We are average against any physical, hard working opposition who close us down.
This league is 'horses for courses' and we do not have enough horses in the stable at the moment but we are definitely working on it. :)
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Yeah, I mean it's probably a fair-ish assessment. I think we're more upper-mid-table than lower, but whatever - we're now a mid table Premier League side. That doesn't bother me, to be honest. It represents good progress over the past 24 months that we've gone from being a mid table Championship side to one who holds their own with established Premier League teams.
That some folk are saying that Ross Barkley isn't good enough for us is a measure of how far we've come.
I'd also say - look at the teams above us. Manc City, Manc United, Leicester, Liverpool, West Ham, Everton, Spurs, and Chelsea. Those are the only sides in the country that are better than us right now. They're for the most part all well-established top flight clubs, the only exceptions being Leicester City & West Ham. Leicester have been incredibly well managed on & off the pitch for a few years and are deservedly in the position they've earnt for themselves, and West Ham ... well, I think they were unlucky to finish as low as they did last season, and this season is making up for it with a better-than-expected league position.
Basically - I think we're a mid table team, and a bit of a work in progress at the moment. The thing is, I think we have a handful of players (our entire back 5, plus Douglas, Grealish, maybe Watkins, maybe Bertie) who are capable of taking us much higher. We're in a good position right now.
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Sorry for a glass half empty question but if you discount our flying first 4 games, since then we have played 16 won 6 lost 8 with a GD of +1. A points ratio of 1.25 gets you about 13th/14th in the league. We have improved massively of course and play some really good football at times but in reality to talk of Europe seems premature as we still lose too many games and are probably a mid table side at best.
Yeah and if you discount all the games we'd won we'd be bottom.
A win is a win, the order of it doesn't matter.
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I think we should have more points but we look mid table to me.
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We have the inconsistency of mid-table and I love it. I have'nt thought about relegation once since July.
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What I will say is that I only get disappointed at worst when we lose games with this team. There have been Villa sides over the years that I think have lost on effort which has enraged me. I like this team and can never accuse them of not trying. I always feel we are in games as well. Last night 0-2 down with 10 to go I still fancied us which is something I like about this Villa team.
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Probably “fancied us” is a bit strong more felt we were in it.
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Both Dyche and Moyes learned from their first game against us; both tightened up their tactics to hold us at arms-length and exploited our weaknesses (in their second game, Burnley used their set-piece strength to good effect; Wet Spam caught us on the break and found Emi on a bad day).
We need to be more flexible and get more options in the squad to be able to adapt our play - more horses, as Baldy says above.
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It's a good question.
I think we're good and the metrics support it as we've been one of the top 6 defences all season and our goalscoring is about 7th I think.
And in terms of individual players Jack, Martinez and perhaps Luiz are all top 6 in their respective positions.
So why aren't we top 6? Well we've been neck and neck with Everton all season who are 6th. They win, we lose and suddenly they seem miles ahead of us but reality is it's only 4 points and I think we can reduce that gap back down to 3 given who we're both playing at the weekend.
A few teams around us have also still played two more games which also impacts things and I think we do still have a habit of after losing a game not always recovering quickly. After Leeds won in October we then lost 3 of our next 4 and similar seems to be happening now but then loads of other clubs around us had that sort of run. Think we're also not as strong at tweaking things as games go on so we lose games we migh'tve got something out of with an earlier change or two as Burnley did v us once they went 1-2 down last week.
Generally more interesting is the stat they showed last night that this abnormal season with more away wins than home ones halfway through which is generally inflating most teams points totals in top half.
After 22 games last season Sheffield United had 32 points from 22 games.....and were 6th. We've got that points total from two fewer games yet are barely in the top half.
By most metrics we'd be 6th but BCD makes this an odd sort of season. We're doing o.k, just hope we don't have a massive slump which ruins all the good work as we should be finishing 10th at least.
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We can and probably will finish 9th or 8th.
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We can and probably will finish 9th or 8th.
Cant believe I am doing this but, ...............I agree with Ads 9th or 8th is realistic
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We can and probably will finish 9th or 8th.
I think that's most realistic and would be a very good season given where we were at start of July 2020 when even staying up seemed remote prospect.
Nothing wrong with thinking we can still do a little better though. It's like at the start of each MON season most predicting we'd finish between 5th-7th and then opportunity opens up to finish top 4 and we can't quite take it and then being disappointed.
I'm sure we'll sign some more good players in the summer but my hunch is next season the top 6 won't be as close as it is now as generally the top sides get their s*** together after lacklustre season and bounce back strongly so this is odd and unique season and opportunity to do something we haven't for a long while.
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We're a decent team, vastly improved from last year and capable of playing some very attractive football and beating anybody on our day. But we're still hugely reliant on one player and our squad really is paper thin.
You see people posting about how we're better / should expect to beat or finish above the likes of Everton and Arsenal, but the reality is that whilst these types of teams can have off games, spells or even seasons they are just miles ahead of us in terms of suad development.
Just look at the benches of the likes of Chelsea, Spurs, Everton, Arsenal, Leicester and even West Ham and the difference is stark. We're probably 5 signings away from having a truly competitive squad.
So my answer is we're pretty good, very good at times but we've still got a very long way to go. I'm excited by the future.
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Shit apparently - read that last night.
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Shit apparently - read that last night.
Well we were shit last night tbf.
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We can and probably will finish 9th or 8th.
I think that's most realistic and would be a very good season given where we were at start of July 2020 when even staying up seemed remote prospect.
Nothing wrong with thinking we can still do a little better though. It's like at the start of each MON season most predicting we'd finish between 5th-7th and then opportunity opens up to finish top 4 and we can't quite take it and then being disappointed.
I'm sure we'll sign some more good players in the summer but my hunch is next season the top 6 won't be as close as it is now as generally the top sides get their s*** together after lacklustre season and bounce back strongly so this is odd and unique season and opportunity to do something we haven't for a long while.
It would be. A shame COVID struck when it did as I think we'd have beat Liverpool in the cup.
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We've got a 1st XI that can give anyone a game and on its day can be top 6 but otherwise comfortable top 10..
We've got a Match day 18 that is approaching mid table standard (8-11).
We've got a mid-lower table (11-14) 25 man squad.
We're light upfront and have a slightly "soft" midfield, I'm less concerned about the defence and keepers.
Considering when we got promoted we had a bottom 6 XI, matchday 18 and squad, the progress is astonishing.
To improve we need to make better use of Grealish, in my view he's easily restricted if we keep him as an attacking left midfielder, sign a world class striker £40-£50m worth and upgrade El Ghazi, Trez and Traore over the next 3 summer windows, and make some tough decisions on our midfield structure, in my view McGinn would be a squad player if we want to progress. I'm on the fence on Barkley, not sure he's quite got the work ethic Smith requires.
This isn't a kneejerk reaction to last night just some thoughts from the first half of the season.
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We've got a 1st XI that can give anyone a game and on its day can be top 6 but otherwise comfortable top 10..
We've got a Match day 18 that is approaching mid table standard (8-11).
We've got a mid-lower table (11-14) 25 man squad.
We're light upfront and have a slightly "soft" midfield, I'm less concerned about the defence and keepers.
Considering when we got promoted we had a bottom 6 XI, matchday 18 and squad, the progress is astonishing.
To improve we need to make better use of Grealish, in my view he's easily restricted if we keep him as an attacking left midfielder, sign a world class striker £40-£50m worth and upgrade El Ghazi, Trez and Traore over the next 3 summer windows, and make some tough decisions on our midfield structure, in my view McGinn would be a squad player if we want to progress. I'm on the fence on Barkley, not sure he's quite got the work ethic Smith requires.
This isn't a kneejerk reaction to last night just some thoughts from the first half of the season.
3 summer windows ? Well we have needed to replace Jack by then, can not see him hanging around that long.
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We've got a 1st XI that can give anyone a game and on its day can be top 6 but otherwise comfortable top 10..
We've got a Match day 18 that is approaching mid table standard (8-11).
We've got a mid-lower table (11-14) 25 man squad.
We're light upfront and have a slightly "soft" midfield, I'm less concerned about the defence and keepers.
Considering when we got promoted we had a bottom 6 XI, matchday 18 and squad, the progress is astonishing.
To improve we need to make better use of Grealish, in my view he's easily restricted if we keep him as an attacking left midfielder, sign a world class striker £40-£50m worth and upgrade El Ghazi, Trez and Traore over the next 3 summer windows, and make some tough decisions on our midfield structure, in my view McGinn would be a squad player if we want to progress. I'm on the fence on Barkley, not sure he's quite got the work ethic Smith requires.
This isn't a kneejerk reaction to last night just some thoughts from the first half of the season.
3 summer windows ? Well we have needed to replace Jack by then, can not see him hanging around that long.
Bearing in mind those are squad players I'd say replacing gradually and utilising our funds for the major striking and central midfield purchases would be a sensible approach. In my view if we haven't cracked top 6/Europe by summer 2022 then Jack will leave at that point.
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We are a good team compared to last season I think we will only get better.
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We have made good progress but the team that almost got relegated last season has nothing suddenly morphed into Bayern Munich despite some quality additions. Finishing 10th would be very good.
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Mid-table at the moment is the honest assessment, but with the potential to be much better on our day.
In many ways I feel like our position currently is similar to the one we were in during Big Ron's first season in charge. We are capable of beating anyone at our best, and by and large are competitive with everyone, but we are subject to having the odd stinker. Some of this is because the players are still getting used to one another, and some is because we probably still don't have the strength in depth we need beyond the first 11.
The good thing is, though, that we no longer need to be filling the squad with 5 or 6 players each window. I'm quite excited for the summer now because we have the opportunity to bring in the 2 or 3 top class players we need to see us challenging. Under Ron, when Saunders or Atkinson got injured or went off the boil we had Dwight Yorke to bring in. We also had players like Ugo, Neil Cox, Tony Daley and Steve Froggatt in the squad (at a time when you only had 3 subs) to keep the players on their toes.
That is the challenge for us now, to have genuine contenders for first team status to be on the bench and keep everyone on their toes. Hopefully Sanson and Ramsey being there will give Barkley and McGinn a bit of a kick up the backside (which is needed based on last night), and then higher quality on the bench is needed at centre-half, full back and up front. Do that and we could be proper contenders next season.
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Solid mid table team, capable of beating anyone on our day with good football. Capable of getting beaten by anyone too and a bit of a soft touch physically let's be honest. It's certainly a big improvement but given the money we spent in comparison to most other teams, that's where I expected we would be aiming.
Need to get a bit more street wise on the pitch and sideline in terms of reacting to things that might go against us. Conceding first for example. Still think our midfield setup is a bit naive at times and the form of Luiz/McGinn isn't where it needs to be consistently. Another worry is the reliance on Jack, if he is blotted out we really don't have anyone else capable of stepping up.
A very bad night last night so important we get a good performance v Arsenal to set us up for the more genteel one game per week until season end.
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I think we’re an exciting team who I enjoy watching (last night excepted!). We just need to learn to adapt a bit better, that’s both tactically and also in the use of our personnel. I think at this time we’re probably between 7th-10th in the division.
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I think we’re an exciting team who I enjoy watching (last night excepted!). We just need to learn to adapt a bit better, that’s both tactically and also in the use of our personnel. I think at this time we’re probably between 7th-10th in the division.
Yes, pretty much my take. We've got a grip on the 'how' side of things, we've got to master the 'when's side, and that includes the players on the pitch and the management.
And that's not a criticism in any way, it's just part of the process, it takes time and to get from where we were to where we are now is worthy only of praise.