Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: kippaxvilla2 on November 10, 2020, 09:08:32 AM
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There’s been a lot of debate about whether or not the lack of crowds benefits some teams more than others. Obviously because we have started well it is down in some quarters to the lack of our demanding crowd weighing heavily on the players. That’s one argument. The other one is that we have frankly just bought better players this summer whilst others have settled in.
However, I’m thinking maybe in some respects the lack of crowd is having a positive effect on some of our players in helping them settle in.
Take Ollie Watkins. Huge price tag for a championship player. Had our crowd been present and he had missed a couple early on would the weight of expectation started to tell? We’ve seen it happen before with new striker signings (see JPA and one or two others). It’s all hypothetical of course. But if the lack of crowd has given him freedom to hit the ground running then this can only be a good thing for when they are finally allowed to return. I think he is the real deal anyway but this must be great for his confidence for when he has to perform in front of 40k at VP.
Also these bizarre VAR decisions I’m wondering if half of them would be given in a hostile crowd environment.
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I think it's 50/50.
Whereas Liverpool pulling a goal back may have made the crowd nervous and that in turn would've affected the players, pulling two back against Saints may have galvanized the fans and pulled the team over the line.
It's a slur often thrown at us that we are quick to get on the players backs but I actually think that it true of most fans and conversely a full Villa Park, under the lights in foul winter weather with the team up against it is hard to match.
I do believe that all players are feeling a new found freedom playing without the weight of expectation of a live crowd hence the unpredictable results and glut of goals. If it helps our team gel then at least some good will come out of a pretty miserable time.
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It's clearly having some effect, and not just us. There's been 245 goals scored, and 'away' is currently winning 130-115 (or should that be 115-130?). And the 7 lowest scorers at home occupy the 7 bottom places of the actual table. Burnley haven't scored yet!
Somewhere it possibly has helped us is out wide. Players who'd normally be within earshot of the words of individual fans have not had to endure a constant barrage from people who think they're doing their job wrong. It's hard to tell with Cash as he's not played in front of a Villa crowd yet, but I think Targett seems less fretful, in both his body language and his play.
Trez is the one where I think it's made a massive difference. He's been freed from having to try to please spectators who still want him to be like Morley, and instead allowed to develop unharassed into the latter-day Bremner we're all a bit (rightly) fanboying over at the moment.
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I think the Villa crowd has been amazing the last few seasons though. To be honest, relegation did us good in that respect. Even when we were getting hammered and making stupid mistakes last season the crowd were very good. And we’re definitely noisier these days.
Think our crowd would have definitely helped against Leeds.
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Last season the crowd were fantastic. I can not recall any time when the crowd seriously got at any player despite a litany of errors. Dougs howler to put Bournmouth 2 up was glossed over by the Holte, and the attitude carried on through the season
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When things are not going well on the pitch and I look at the 'match thread' the vitriol spouted by some of our posters beggars belief.
Is it fair to assume that the match threads are a true representation and a fair reflection of our supporters in the ground? I don't know, now live a few thousand miles away and have not seen a live game for years.
If the assumption is correct, I am not surprised our team is playing better and expressing themselves more behind closed gates. No one jumping down their throat if a fancy flick or trick goes wrong.
Yes, all clubs have a bunch of moaners/whiners but I fear Villa have a few more than most.
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I'd bet every match thread for every club in the country is the same as ours. Fuck knows why even our own fans buy into the DOL bullshit.
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Our away support is fabulously supportive. And yet that's where we've won all our games without conceding. At home, where they would generally be more pressure is where we lost. So perhaps it doesn't make a difference...
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It could be that we are just better this season more than fans having anything significantly to do with it. I’m not suggesting it hasn’t had bearing on all sports but professionals adjust quickly. Our players are confident and that confidence comes from winning and performing at a high level.
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One thing that struck me on Sunday night is that we've got a striker banging in the goals who doesn't have a chant. In a normal world, we'd all be singing his name, making him feel 10 foot tall on the pitch. Hard to think that the newer players especially wouldn't benefit from our support in the flesh.
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I think players are playing with more freedom - with the atmosphere of a training ground, rather than a full stadium. It would be interesting to hear what they are saying about the difference. Clearly something is having an effect on games.
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Poor Wesley. But the time he's back so will the crowds.
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Any stats on whether away teams are performing better than normal. That'd be an indicator
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Any stats on whether away teams are performing better than normal. That'd be an indicator
Doubt there's many many seasons in recent memory when likes of Man. United and Spurs have won all their away games so far but 0 and 1 home win between them. Our away form is better than at VP despite playing more home games aswell.
What's our record for away wins in top flight? Can remember us getting to 10 away wins in one of the MON seasons so could well surpass that this season.
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Any stats on whether away teams are performing better than normal. That'd be an indicator
Yes they are - this was covered on SSN yesterday. So far this season it’s something like 31% of PL games being home wins and 46% being away wins, which is almost an exact reversal of the usual, long term trend.
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Teams are definitely performing better away from home including us due to lack of home fans. So it's better results away and mixed at home. We are a candidate example of that.
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The more worrying thing for me is that everyone is getting comfortable with playing in empty stadiums. Players, officials and staff have adopted to the new normal. Television money is coming in and most neutral fans in UK and around the world will pay and watch a game on TV and not be bothered about lack of fans in the stadia. If we are not careful football could go the way of cricket which has been played mostly in empty stadia around the world and has become totally dependant on TV revenue.
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I'd thought of broaching this subject a while back but was put off by the thought of the possible hostile reception it might receive from some more regular contributors.
My own opinion is that the crowd free games at the end of last season may well have been instrumental in us staying up! It provided a less pressured workplace for some players to do their job, and probably gave them the confidence to play with more freedom rather than opting for the "safe" ball that gets less criticism from some of the crowd.
Put yourself in their position. Imagine yourself at work being told you're a waste of space, useless, and not fit to wear the shirt by a ranting stranger on the sidelines.
One of the things that used to anoy me at matches in the 90's was the number of "fans" who within minutes of kickoff started to vocalise their disapproval of their own personal "hated" Villa player. Anxiously waiting for his first mistake so they could release the torrent of anger and abuse within them for the rest of the game. It made me wonder how some players could even function, their confidence must have been non existent.
Confidence is everything. It really is. Look at us currently. We have many of the same players this season playing I expect with freedom and confidence, having good or even great games when last season they were apparently shit and useless according to some. Perhaps they're playing better now because they're not being told they're shit and useless by some of their own supporters. Opposition supporters abuse they can shrug it off, it'd probably inspire them! But your own supporters, hell no, I don't think so.
Spectators do make a difference. It can be positive or negative to our team. Why do we slag off opposition players on the field? Because we hope it puts them off their game I suppose. If so, doesn't that beg the question why do some Villa fans do it to our players?
When we can finally go back to Villa Park I say this. Be positive, not negative to our players. Lift them up and inspire them, don't drag them down and make them fear getting the ball. Don't be anti-Villa, and tell those who are to give it a rest. That way Villa Park will become a fortress.
Utv.
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I'd thought of broaching this subject a while back but was put off by the thought of the possible hostile reception it might receive from some more regular contributors.
My own opinion is that the crowd free games at the end of last season may well have been instrumental in us staying up! It provided a less pressured workplace for some players to do their job, and probably gave them the confidence to play with more freedom rather than opting for the "safe" ball that gets less criticism from some of the crowd.
Put yourself in their position. Imagine yourself at work being told you're a waste of space, useless, and not fit to wear the shirt by a ranting stranger on the sidelines.
One of the things that used to anoy me at matches in the 90's was the number of "fans" who within minutes of kickoff started to vocalise their disapproval of their own personal "hated" Villa player. Anxiously waiting for his first mistake so they could release the torrent of anger and abuse within them for the rest of the game. It made me wonder how some players could even function, their confidence must have been non existent.
Confidence is everything. It really is. Look at us currently. We have many of the same players this season playing I expect with freedom and confidence, having good or even great games when last season they were apparently shit and useless according to some. Perhaps they're playing better now because they're not being told they're shit and useless by some of their own supporters. Opposition supporters abuse they can shrug it off, it'd probably inspire them! But your own supporters, hell no, I don't think so.
Spectators do make a difference. It can be positive or negative to our team. Why do we slag off opposition players on the field? Because we hope it puts them off their game I suppose. If so, doesn't that beg the question why do some Villa fans do it to our players?
When we can finally go back to Villa Park I say this. Be positive, not negative to our players. Lift them up and inspire them, don't drag them down and make them fear getting the ball. Don't be anti-Villa, and tell those who are to give it a rest. That way Villa Park will become a fortress.
Utv.
Agreed 100% Mr Lion. Confidence is everything and players do have ears. A few fans might need to be muzzled. :)
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The simple fact is we've got a much better team now, allied with a year's experience in the Premier League. I don't imagine there's a single professional player out there who prefers playing in an empty stadium.
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I don't disagree that we've more experience now and have some better players, but several in the current first team were given an incredible amount of stick last season, some of it personal. I seriously doubt that THEY are missing the criticism and abuse they got last season. They'll miss the atmosphere of course but that's a different thing entirely. The lads need encouragement from supporters to win their personal battle not criticism virtually from the whistle. All I'm saying is that if a fan doesn't support the individual lads that make up the team during a game they're not really supporting the team are they? I'm not singling anyone out here, I'm just saying there's an opportunity here to change an attitude when supporters go back. A discussion to be had about what support really is. I'm confident the lads would reward the unbridled support.
Utv.
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Empty grounds also means that the players can hear each other and instructions from coaches etc. That has to help communication and organisation during matches.
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I’ve got no doubt that the lack of crowds are helping us and hindering the likes of Utd, City and Arsenal. I think our players just look more relaxed and the ‘big’ clubs are getting less of the marginal decisions which the officials are expected to give them most weeks. That’s just my perception from what I’ve seen. I’m in no way having a pop at our fans. We’ve all seen it though, a few setbacks, misplaced pass here and there and you get the ‘ohhhhhs’ and the nervousness of the fans translates to the players at VP. Well it used to anyway. On the other hand, someone else made the point that we’ve made some good signings and look a lot better side this year and that’s also probably, definitely a factor too. Probably a bit of both things. Whatever, we’re flying this season and long may it go on!
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Empty grounds also means that the players can hear each other and instructions from coaches etc. That has to help communication and organisation during matches.
Yeah, agree with this totally. Being able to hear eachother/the coaching team will have a huge effect, particularly for clubs whose players haven't played together for as long since the need for near-telepathic communication evaporates.
Also suspect there's maybe a little less pressure on players, which would be a big boost for players low on confidence.
Finally, we've had a squad that's been together for alnost 18 months now, rather than having been cobbled together (through necessity) that summer.
Obviously I'd rather we didn't have a global pandemic, but a very small silver lining is that it's suited us (Villa), and we've taken advantage of that very effectively.
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I’ve got no doubt that the lack of crowds are helping us and hindering the likes of Utd, City and Arsenal. I think our players just look more relaxed and the ‘big’ clubs are getting less of the marginal decisions which the officials are expected to give them most weeks. That’s just my perception from what I’ve seen.
I agree, whilst VAR may not be perfect in trying to make it perfect, it also contributes to the removal of the element of home advantage that a baying crowd gives.
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The thing is, if we do continue our great form and finish in a high position in the league, there are those who will say that we only managed it because there were no crowds at the games. Same as when we won the league in 1981 so many people said it was only because Ipswich lost on the last day of the season.
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I don’t buy into this empty ground is helping us. Don’t we all dream of pulling on the shirt and running onto the pitch with the atmosphere from the crowd? I actually feel sorry for the new signings and not witness the joy of a packed Villa Park. Aren’t we just better now?
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I don’t buy into this empty ground is helping us. Don’t we all dream of pulling on the shirt and running onto the pitch with the atmosphere from the crowd? I actually feel sorry for the new signings and not witness the joy of a packed Villa Park. Aren’t we just better now?
Yep. Load of bollocks to blame the fans.
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The thing is, if we do continue our great form and finish in a high position in the league, there are those who will say that we only managed it because there were no crowds at the games. Same as when we won the league in 1981 so many people said it was only because Ipswich lost on the last day of the season.
You can go back for ever...should we have won 1957 FA Cup without Ray Wood getting injured by THAT shoulder charge.
Would we have won 66 World Cup if it weren't for that Russian linesman.
Fcuk em all!!!
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I don’t buy into this empty ground is helping us. Don’t we all dream of pulling on the shirt and running onto the pitch with the atmosphere from the crowd? I actually feel sorry for the new signings and not witness the joy of a packed Villa Park. Aren’t we just better now?
Yep. Load of bollocks to blame the fans.
So you're suggesting that fans don't make a difference at games?
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I don’t buy into this empty ground is helping us. Don’t we all dream of pulling on the shirt and running onto the pitch with the atmosphere from the crowd? I actually feel sorry for the new signings and not witness the joy of a packed Villa Park. Aren’t we just better now?
Yep. Load of bollocks to blame the fans.
So you're suggesting that fans don't make a difference at games?
I'm not suggesting we're better now because there is no fans, I'm suggesting we're better because we are just that, we are much better now than last season. I would hazard a guess so is Risso.
That's the point I was making anyway.
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If having fans there makes a positive or negative difference, then surely not having them there has an impact?
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Yes not have fans makes a positive or negative difference ;)
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Basically we're not needed so don't dare pretend that we are. Time we changed allegiance to another brand, Unilever and Kelloggs look kinda fun.
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Fans there - kick them up the arse or roar them on as the circumstances dictate.
Fans not there - players relax, less intense and lose focus and lose the game or relax so much they play their completely natural game and perform so much better by their ability shining through.
I work in credit not psychology though.
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I would love to be there watching us live right now - we have waited for this turn around for a lot of shit years and to be denied seeing it now is criminal
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I would love to be there watching us live right now - we have waited for this turn around for a lot of shit years and to be denied seeing it now is criminal
Same. I’m missing it hugely. I expect we’ll win the FA Cup this year too.
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I would love to be there watching us live right now - we have waited for this turn around for a lot of shit years and to be denied seeing it now is criminal
Same. I’m missing it hugely. I expect we’ll win the FA Cup this year too.
That would be unbearable
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I would love to be there watching us live right now - we have waited for this turn around for a lot of shit years and to be denied seeing it now is criminal
Same. I’m missing it hugely. I expect we’ll win the FA Cup this year too.
That would be unbearable
Aye. I'd still take it though, first trophy and all that. Presuming we don't end top ;)
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It's an interesting point that this season has seen more high scoring games than I can ever remember. At the same time the empty grounds, if they benefit any players, should be positive from a defensive point of view as they allow for far easier communication. Have defenders lost the ability to talk and organise as they used to?
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Maybe without a crowd, games just take on more of a training ground session to them so they relax more. Whereas a crowd perhaps heightens player's sense of responsibility?
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Our home support has been fantastic since we were relegated although I accept we can be the world’s best or the world’s Worst as the mood takes us. I certainly think an away trip to any of the previously deemed ‘tough’ fixtures such as Liverpool, Man Utd , Leeds etc are now just 11 v 11 on the pitch.
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Are other leagues (La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga, ..) also seeing a notable increase in high scoring games?
Genuine question, I don't pay that much attention to competitions that Villa aren't in (well, maybe have a passing knowledge of whichever divisions Wrexham & Inverness are playing in at the time).