Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Chris Smith on July 18, 2020, 10:37:26 AM
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Regardless of the league we were in arrangements for next season are going to be a long way from normal. A couple of quotes from an article in the Guardian this morning set out current thinking. Thought it would be useful to have a thread just on arrangements away from the general discussion.
This month discussions were held regarding the return of fans to all grounds next season as part of “stage five” of the return of professional sport, with the closing of toilets at half-time, filling one in every three seats and a ban on away support among the ideas proposed.
Sports minister, Nigel Huddleston.
“I recognise not every sport, team or club has the benefit of huge commercial revenue and it is often their dedicated fans that are the lifeblood which helps keep them going. By working closely with sports and medical experts, these pilots will help ensure the safe return of fans to stadia.
Although it will remain some time before venues are full to capacity, this is a major step in the right direction for the resumption of live spectator sport across the country.”
This clearly has implications for us, a third of seats is under 15k available so how does that work when season ticket numbers this season are double that?
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Where do they propose people go for a piss?
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Maybe they will offer season tickets on the basis of how long you have held your ST, ie 15+ seasons 1st, then 10+ etc.
I hope they don’t shut the loos at half time, I will be in big trouble 😆
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Still waiting for my refund from this season.
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There will be long lasting ramifications from this.
Even when things return to a degree of normality, plenty of fans - especially those who were regulars before the lockdown - might find that they've found a more productive/ less stressful way to spend a Saturday or Sunday and quite enjoy the new normal sans Villa torture.
Also, whilst most top flight clubs could probably -as things stand - cope with a hit to the gate receipts due to the various TV deals, for clubs lower down the footballing pyramid they are the lifeblood.
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Regardless of the league we were in arrangements for next season are going to be a long way from normal. A couple of quotes from an article in the Guardian this morning set out current thinking. Thought it would be useful to have a thread just on arrangements away from the general discussion.
This month discussions were held regarding the return of fans to all grounds next season as part of “stage five” of the return of professional sport, with the closing of toilets at half-time, filling one in every three seats and a ban on away support among the ideas proposed.
Sports minister, Nigel Huddleston.
“I recognise not every sport, team or club has the benefit of huge commercial revenue and it is often their dedicated fans that are the lifeblood which helps keep them going. By working closely with sports and medical experts, these pilots will help ensure the safe return of fans to stadia.
Although it will remain some time before venues are full to capacity, this is a major step in the right direction for the resumption of live spectator sport across the country.”
This clearly has implications for us, a third of seats is under 15k available so how does that work when season ticket numbers this season are double that?
I would think that demand will drop off from the last two seasons, as there will be much less excitement about a second stint in the Championship compared to a first season back in the Premier League. But a much bigger factor will be potential unemployment and the ending of furlough payments, which will hit a lot of people from the autumn you would think, plus the general nervousness around coronavirus in general.
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Yet more half cocked thinking from this Government - policy on the hoof without any rational thinking behind it - who on earth comes up with a suggestion to shut toilets at half time without a reasonable and workable alternative? Perhaps the rugby supporting twats will suggest pissing into a bottle or hip flask :(
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Where do they propose people go for a piss?
Buy some waterproof trousers. It will be like the seventies with people pissing up each other like they have been stung by a jellyfish. ;) I am probably approaching the adult diapers stage of life anyway.
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I suppose the fairest way would be those who’ve had ST’s the longest get first pick.
I’ve had one on and off for years but only for the last 3 years in a row at present so I will probably miss out. I did opt for the voucher/credit option which I wanted to put towards the next ST but that’s not looking toI likely with those proposals until grounds are full again.
God knows how people will get by if the loos are shut at half time, I couldn’t.
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You have to remember that the Government will change direction every week jus like they have been doing for the last 4 months. No one has an idea how this will pan out if allowed.
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Maybe they will offer season tickets on the basis of how long you have held your ST, ie 15+ seasons 1st, then 10+ etc.
I hope they don’t shut the loos at half time, I will be in big trouble 😆
Problem with that is they risk losing fans who can’t get tickets on a permanent basis. As for the loos if they don’t sell drinks and the pubs around stay closed it might not be such an issue.
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I suppose the fairest way would be those who’ve had ST’s the longest get first pick.
You mean push old people in first? ;)
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There will be long lasting ramifications from this.
Even when things return to a degree of normality, plenty of fans - especially those who were regulars before the lockdown - might find that they've found a more productive/ less stressful way to spend a Saturday or Sunday and quite enjoy the new normal sans Villa torture.
Also, whilst most top flight clubs could probably -as things stand - cope with a hit to the gate receipts due to the various TV deals, for clubs lower down the footballing pyramid they are the lifeblood.
I think there is something in this.
I think there may be a significant number of people who go to home games out of habit as much as anything. I know a couple of blokes who moan about going but they still go because it’s what they have done for decades.
Now watching every game on the box has ‘broken the seal’ so to speak and I think there is every possibility they won’t renew. Not going is not as painful as they thought.
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Maybe they will offer season tickets on the basis of how long you have held your ST, ie 15+ seasons 1st, then 10+ etc.
I hope they don’t shut the loos at half time, I will be in big trouble 😆
Problem with that is they risk losing fans who can’t get tickets on a permanent basis. As for the loos if they don’t sell drinks and the pubs around stay closed it might not be such an issue.
But that doesn't take into consideration people with health issues Chris - such as diabetics or people with urinary problems - the withdrawal of facilities may contravene the Equality Act and the provision of toilets for those with disabilities
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Yeah, it's a stupid idea IMO, and would just lead to a rush of everyone going on 40 minutes, which defeats the whole object.
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I didn’t choose the season ticket refund option but to put what’s left over on me and my STs towards next seasons, season ticket, so will be interesting to see how they sort that out, if there’s to be reduced seating? I’ve been going down longer than the kids as well, if a longevity plan is put in place does that mean I get one and they dont?
None of it seems workable in a way that would be fair?
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If we are allowed, say, 15,000 fans, that isn't far off half of our season ticket holders. Even though I'd benefit personally if they based it on longevity, I would rather they allowed all season ticket holders to attend roughly half the games than than have half of the season ticket holders get to attend all the games, if you see what I mean. That seems fairer.
Maybe sell the tickets in blocks of four matches and ask fans to rank in order of preference which ones they would most like to attend. If, as is quite likely, too many people have one particular game as first preference, have the tickets awarded randomly. For those that are unlucky and don't get their first preference, try to give them priority so they at least get their second preference.
You could also have it so you are linked with your family/friends on the database and apply for tickets together like you do for away games. So either you all get a ticket, or none of you do. Preventing the scenario you set out above. They will have to have something in place like this anyway because, obviously, young children can't be going to the game on their own.
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Where do they propose people go for a piss?
How about in the opposition dugout
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Reward loyalty and suffering. Longevity counts.
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You'd just be punishing children for not being born early enough, it isn't good to alienate the next generation. There is no entirely fair way to do it, but having all fans able to attend some games seems a lot fairer than allowing some fans to attend them all while others attend none.
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Will they be banning singing and chanting? Choirs can't meet currently.
Mandatory masks?
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Cant be many with nigh on 30 years continuous service home and away. You can accommodate those of us who fit that criteria and those that are younger or more infrequent in their support.
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I suppose they could accommodate the two thousand or so that do all the aways. That still leaves plenty to be allocated on my preference system so that nobody is shut out entirely.
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I think this will create an uptick in folks selling tickets on way above face value.
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Maybe they will offer season tickets on the basis of how long you have held your ST, ie 15+ seasons 1st, then 10+ etc.
I hope they don’t shut the loos at half time, I will be in big trouble 😆
Problem with that is they risk losing fans who can’t get tickets on a permanent basis. As for the loos if they don’t sell drinks and the pubs around stay closed it might not be such an issue.
But that doesn't take into consideration people with health issues Chris - such as diabetics or people with urinary problems - the withdrawal of facilities may contravene the Equality Act and the provision of toilets for those with disabilities
Good point, personally I think the whole thing is fraught with danger but if they are determined to do it, and I can understand why they are, there is much more to consider than just blocking off seats.
From a personal perspective I’m not sure how appealing a game with reduced capacity, everyone in masks, no away fans and little of the social side would be. I just hope that when, eventually, things return to normal we are able to retain our current seats.
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As I see it, they have a key issue to address, and that is to educate a proportion of fans that the sinks are for washing hands, not pissing in. It could be pivotal.
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I think this will create an uptick in folks selling tickets on way above face value.
With only 14k at a game they'd probably be able to check some form of ID matches the name on the ticket.
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Pretty sensible recommendations but let's be honest I wouldn't be bothered about what division we're in next season if majority of it is going to be played to reduced capacities, away fans banned etc. It takes lots out of what a full football season should be about, highs and lows of following the Villa around the country.
Finishing this season was always needs must so BCD is easier to adapt to.
It's interesting when you think of our our ground and how congested it gets in the upper tiers of the North, Trinity Witton and even Holte End when we sell out as has been the norm for last 12 months. I can see North Stand remaining closed as it would remain cramped even with just a third allowed to sit there in the concourses.
Big problem is how do the 15k all get to and in the ground. Seen talk turnstiles might open at 12pm for 3pm games next season but what would anyone do for two and a half hours if you're not allowed on the concourses? Perhaps Villa Ladies could play at half 12 which would be a great way of attracting wider interest now they're in the WSL.
Hitting winter will also be a problem. Get the feeling we'll be back to square one. Having 42k in VP seems years away.
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Where do they propose people go for a piss?
Bring a bucket like Bielsa does to park his arse on.
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Where do they propose people go for a piss?
Bring a bucket like Bielsa does to park his arse on.
When you need a piss you have to put your hand up like you did back in school and wait for a steward to let you go for one.
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To be fair, I don't think the government are really worrying about the likes of the Villa with this.
As per the original quote, this is aimed at the clubs who don't have large chunks of commercial revenue. Those same clubs probably have a huge amount of capacity versus their average crowds, so this allows them to open up and get some much needed income.
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There must be thousands of match goers that will not go until it is safe.
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True, plus you will have natural wastage of some fans not renewing if we drop a league. I'd imagine even more games than before will be televised and can see a few being 6pm midweek kick offs, all factors which will put people off.
Still, despite that, I'd be surprised if any game had less than a 25,000 demand for tickets and be equally surprised if we are able to have more than 15,000 attendees, so something will have to give.
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If the decision was taken to close the toilets then this would certainly have a negative effect on the attendance.
A few years ago both Leeds and Villa had the huge misfortune to have a large numbers of their games moved to daft times due to TV coverage. With Leeds bring promoted there will be a considerable number of TV slots to fill and we could well fall foul of being the main team to fill the daft kick off times - which will impact on attendances.
All conjecture of course but even the football world post covid will have to change.
Would it be sensible for instance if 10,000 folks from Cov travel to St Blandrews for home games.
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They'll only have to worry about that many Coventry fans making the trip once, next season.
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Perhaps Villa Ladies could play at half 12 which would be a great way of attracting wider interest now they're in the WSL..
Just thinking about it, if you were to hold WSL games at VP immediately before 'away' games, then show the away match on the big screens - season ticket holders could still go to the same number of matches as they would before (50% home, 50% away/ladies). And the women's team would likely have pretty impressive attendance figures.
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Still waiting for my refund from this season.
Same here.
Don't get me started on the toilets being closed!
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Would seem rather strange to close toilets with all the advice surrounding the washing of hands being vital to staving off the virus?
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someone's taking the piss.
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Would seem rather strange to close toilets with all the advice surrounding the washing of hands being vital to staving off the virus?
I'm guessing the idea is to spread the number of people needing the loo out over the 90 minutes of football rather than have everyone rushing to the loo during half time.
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Cant be many with nigh on 30 years continuous service home and away. You can accommodate those of us who fit that criteria and those that are younger or more infrequent in their support.
I hope so. Apart from going infrequently when I was away at uni (frustratingly the mid 90s when we had a bloody good team) I’ve either had a season ticket or otherwise gone to most home matches and a few away games since the early 80s. My kids are 10 and 13 and have been going to most matches since the first year bk in the championship and season. Ticket holders for last two seasons. As we all know the villa bug gets you as a kid, and it would be a shame if those links start to get broken.
Then again, half empty villa park, not much atmosphere and shite football, sounds very much like the late 80s!!
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As said the PL teams ( and newly relegated with parachute payments ) may be ok for next season but with little or no fans the Championship and leagues below are going to struggle to get through the season IMO.
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One suggestion being mooted is that tickets have a time on them when you are allowed into the ground. If you are not there at that particular time then you do not get in. Also to leave the ground sections would be allowed to leave when told so that there is no congregation of fans at the exits.
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It all sounds shit. Just have the season behind closed doors and wait for a vaccine.
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It does sound shite unfortunately. The one of the unique things about English football, due mainly to the relatively small size of the country, is the mass of travelling away fans, you just don’t get that in say Spain. It makes the atmosphere a lot of the time, at least the banter between fans. Also if we do end up back in the championship, one of the few plus points was being able to get away tickets relatively easily and our mass away support definitely played a part in our promotion last time. Good days out as well. I understand the need for clubs that are going to struggle financially to get some fans back, just all sounds like sanitized naffness. Maybe we’ll get used to it.
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It all sounds shit. Just have the season behind closed doors and wait for a vaccine.
The problem is that might put some smaller clubs, such as Crewe, Burton or Small Heath, out of business. Obviously that wouldn’t be all bad news but for the ongoing strength of the game having 4 divisions is important.
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It all sounds shit. Just have the season behind closed doors and wait for a vaccine.
The problem is that might put some smaller clubs, such as Crewe, Burton or Small Heath, out of business. Obviously that wouldn’t be all bad news but for the ongoing strength of the game having 4 divisions is important.
Exactly. I did hear the owner at Cheltenham talking before the play offs, so a few weeks ago now, and he said they could only go another one to two months without any income before they’d be in trouble. They’re pretty tightly run too, so I can’t imagine what it will be like for the ones that aren’t.
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if they can't allow unfettered access to stadiums by October then they never will. Life has to start to return to normal and i say that as someone left shell shocked by the number of people who have died from Covid since March.
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Imagine the social distancing in the Aston Social before the game...
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if they can't allow unfettered access to stadiums by October then they never will. Life has to start to return to normal and i say that as someone left shell shocked by the number of people who have died from Covid since March.
Without a vaccine isn’t that the sort of move which risks overwhelming the NHS over the winter?
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Imagine the social distancing in the Aston Social before the game...
Rename it the Aston Antisocial.
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if they can't allow unfettered access to stadiums by October then they never will. Life has to start to return to normal and i say that as someone left shell shocked by the number of people who have died from Covid since March.
Yes we need to return to a normal - but I think it could be done by a staggered approach under reviews - big bang will end up literally like a big bang
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"Project Restart" has proved that football no longer gives a monkeys about having fans at games!
Sadly,clubs will go to the wall but the powers that be really don't care about those clubs either!
Life has to return to normal whether people are scared or not. Life cannot continue like this!
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Keep the top level of the game closed for the season, it can survive with TV money.
Open up the grounds at the lower levels with necessary safety measures in place. Most clubs at lower levels only fill a fraction of the stadium.
With this being the only football being available to go and watch they could even finish up getting bigger attendances.
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Imagine the social distancing in the Aston Social before the game...
I doubt even Covid 19 could survive the heat generated by the Social.
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"Project Restart" has proved that football no longer gives a monkeys about having fans at games!
Sadly,clubs will go to the wall but the powers that be really don't care about those clubs either!
Life has to return to normal whether people are scared or not. Life cannot continue like this!
No it hasn't. It was about finishing the season for TV money and finishing the competitions. However flawed the games have been, I still think most people will agree it was fairer than points per game or voiding the season. It hasn't been anwhere near the disaster many predicted and as far as I'm aware it hasn't cost any lives.
But if anything, the restart has shown just how much the game needs the fans and the PL, TV companies and clubs will be desperate to get the fans back just as soon as they can.
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Keep the top level of the game closed for the season, it can survive with TV money.
Open up the grounds at the lower levels with necessary safety measures in place. Most clubs at lower levels only fill a fraction of the stadium.
With this being the only football being available to go and watch they could even finish up getting bigger attendances.
Why is it better to keep the top level games closed than allowing a third of fans in if it's safe to do so? Yes the experience will be pretty crap, but there will be plenty of people who would like to go so why not?
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Where do they propose people go for a piss?
Bring a bucket like Bielsa does to park his arse on.
Love it LOL
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for context, japan have been letting up to 5,000 fans into each j-league game since 2 weeks ago, and are due to go to half capacity from the 1st august.
the stadiums are between 15k and 72k capacity.