Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: dave.woodhall on January 05, 2020, 03:12:55 PM

Title: Not Pressed-up and going nowhere
Post by: dave.woodhall on January 05, 2020, 03:12:55 PM
www.thebirminghampress.com

Read it and weep.
Title: Re: Not Pressed-up and going nowhere
Post by: Legion on January 05, 2020, 03:21:12 PM
Duly wept.
Title: Re: Not Pressed-up and going nowhere
Post by: Nev on January 05, 2020, 03:24:51 PM
I used to rage against the way the FA Cup was going but I can't find the anger anymore. Perhaps it's my age, cynicism or a combination of both but I've all but given up. Our owners will value staying in the PL above the cup and from a financial point of view I can't really argue. I do hope we give it a go on Wednesday though, anything else will increase my cynicism 10 fold.
Title: Re: Not Pressed-up and going nowhere
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on January 05, 2020, 03:35:13 PM
Quote
Half a dozen players, properly coached (I know…) and our future would be a lot more promising

It's something we can dream of, as is winning the trophy. To those of us that still see it as the Holy Grail I'm prepared to wait until we have a team that not only reach the final but actually win it which is partly why I wasn't bothered by the result yesterday. Probably the first time ever for a FA Cup game. That and I'm still shellshocked from 2015.
Title: Re: Not Pressed-up and going nowhere
Post by: TopDeck113 on January 05, 2020, 03:38:33 PM
I'm with you, Nev.  The F.A. had arguably the greatest football competition in the world, with a history, traditions and values ingrained into the nations's psyche.  It then preceded to kill it through first its complicity in creating the money monster that is the Premier League and then a further thousand other cuts at the behest of the bigger clubs for whom a tricky tie at Tranmere or a second replay at neutral Nottingham is too much bother.   
Title: Re: Not Pressed-up and going nowhere
Post by: SaddVillan on January 05, 2020, 03:54:06 PM
For a certain generation  of fans, it's the final piece in the jigsaw. The one that completes the collection.

 When we were growing up it was the pre-eminent cup competition, and nothing else compared for romance, history, tradition and glory

Would I take winning the FA Cup and relegation in the same season?

In a heartbeat.

Others may think differently.
Title: Re: Not Pressed-up and going nowhere
Post by: dave.woodhall on January 05, 2020, 04:26:51 PM
For a certain generation  of fans, it's the final piece in the jigsaw. The one that completes the collection.

 When we were growing up it was the pre-eminent cup competition, and nothing else compared for romance, history, tradition and glory

Would I take winning the FA Cup and relegation in the same season?

In a heartbeat.

Others may think differently.

So would I. But realistically,  except in exceptional circumstances, if you aren't good enough nowadays to be at least mid-table in the Premier League you won't be good enough to win the cup.
Title: Re: Not Pressed-up and going nowhere
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 05, 2020, 04:37:38 PM
Summed up my feelings about Villa and the FA Cup perfectly.
Title: Re: Not Pressed-up and going nowhere
Post by: itmustbe_it is! on January 05, 2020, 04:40:34 PM
4-4-3 and we still lost  :)
Title: Re: Not Pressed-up and going nowhere
Post by: mike on January 05, 2020, 07:39:54 PM
On the council estate I grew up on, there was not a person out on FA Cup Final day, irrespective of who was playing. I can reluctantly accept that relegation would be so catastrophic to the club that we have to prioritise, but why teams that are safe don't give it respect is beyond me.
Title: Re: Not Pressed-up and going nowhere
Post by: VILLA MOLE on January 05, 2020, 07:56:41 PM
On the council estate I grew up on, there was not a person out on FA Cup Final day, irrespective of who was playing. I can reluctantly accept that relegation would be so catastrophic to the club that we have to prioritise, but why teams that are safe don't give it respect is beyond me.




Yes I remember back in the day watching from about 12pm. With tv cameras on the coaches , celeb fans on Saint and greavsey flicking from bbc to itv and back . Actually walking to the tv and turning over the box
Title: Re: Not Pressed-up and going nowhere
Post by: TopDeck113 on January 05, 2020, 08:09:32 PM
Kids, if you want a flavour of what the Cup once was, get on that there YouTube and look up "Meanwhile Back In Sunderland".   Filmed around the town on the day of the 1973 final, in terms of social history and an understanding of how football in general and the F.A. Cup in particular could galvanize and unite a community, I think it's one of the greatest football-related documentaries of all time.
Title: Re: Not Pressed-up and going nowhere
Post by: dave.woodhall on January 05, 2020, 08:43:08 PM
On the council estate I grew up on, there was not a person out on FA Cup Final day, irrespective of who was playing. I can reluctantly accept that relegation would be so catastrophic to the club that we have to prioritise, but why teams that are safe don't give it respect is beyond me.

This is what I don't understand. There are teams who haven't won a trophy in decades, won't go down or finish in the top four, yet they still put their reserves out in the FA CUp.
Title: Re: Not Pressed-up and going nowhere
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on January 05, 2020, 08:44:56 PM
On the council estate I grew up on, there was not a person out on FA Cup Final day, irrespective of who was playing. I can reluctantly accept that relegation would be so catastrophic to the club that we have to prioritise, but why teams that are safe don't give it respect is beyond me.




Yes I remember back in the day watching from about 12pm. With tv cameras on the coaches , celeb fans on Saint and greavsey flicking from bbc to itv and back . Actually walking to the tv and turning over the box

Don't forget It's a Cup Final Knockout.


Title: Re: Not Pressed-up and going nowhere
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 05, 2020, 08:51:10 PM
FA Cup final day was massive back when I was a kid, although that's probably in part due to it being a rare chance to watch a live game on telly.

It's weird to think that there's now a generation that would find it hard to believe that FA Cup games were once massive, pretty much regardless of who the away team were the cup games were nearly always well above the league average attendances.
Title: Re: Not Pressed-up and going nowhere
Post by: dave.woodhall on January 05, 2020, 08:54:41 PM
FA Cup final day was massive back when I was a kid, although that's probably in part due to it being a rare chance to watch a live game on telly.

It's weird to think that there's now a generation that would find it hard to believe that FA Cup games were once massive, pretty much regardless of who the away team were the cup games were nearly always well above the league average attendances.

Like when we got 43,000 for a cup replay against a team from division three and a month later 15,000 for a league game.
Title: Re: Not Pressed-up and going nowhere
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on January 05, 2020, 09:10:55 PM
The first FA Cup games I saw at Villa Park were 1967/68, both against sides in our division.
R3 Millwall ( 34,703 in the cup, 14,886 in the league )   
R4 Rotherham (33,442 in the cup, 13,673 in the league )
Title: Re: Not Pressed-up and going nowhere
Post by: darren woolley on January 06, 2020, 09:31:13 AM
Great read Dave I also love FA Cup third round day it's a shame that the Premier League and Champions League is all everybody cares about apart from Wigan who won it I bet they wouldn't swop that win over Man City for Premier League status.
Title: Re: Not Pressed-up and going nowhere
Post by: chrisw1 on January 06, 2020, 12:00:42 PM
On the council estate I grew up on, there was not a person out on FA Cup Final day, irrespective of who was playing. I can reluctantly accept that relegation would be so catastrophic to the club that we have to prioritise, but why teams that are safe don't give it respect is beyond me.

This is what I don't understand. There are teams who haven't won a trophy in decades, won't go down or finish in the top four, yet they still put their reserves out in the FA CUp.
This is where I am.  I am probably a bit less misty eyed about the FA cup than some.  I'd love to win it but am hard nosed enough to realise the medium term future of the club would be better served by avoiding relegation.  But for established PL clubs with deeper squads and in no danger, I can't understand why they aren't busting a gut to win a pot.  Fair play to Wolves who are fighting on all fronts with a small squad, but still put out a strong team.
Title: Re: Not Pressed-up and going nowhere
Post by: Ad@m on January 06, 2020, 12:23:21 PM
4-4-3 and we still lost  :)

To be fair, we always struggle with the extra man!
Title: Re: Not Pressed-up and going nowhere
Post by: Hookeysmith on January 06, 2020, 12:55:51 PM
Relegation or FA cup win?

FA cup everyday

Maybe that's selfish as one of the older fans we have seen the lot but that is the holy grail to me.

We should be grateful that at least we made the final twice in the last 20 years (albeit abject surrender when we did) there are teams that have never had a sniff in their entire lifetime.

When the FA sanctioned the biggest club at the time to skip a year from their own top trophy for promotional and financial gains then you knew the cup was doomed. The only way back is for it to be seeded and weighted in favour of the bigger teams as the thought of leaving the draw to chance (the thing that make the cup for me) is abhorrent to them in case they draw another Prem team

Title: Re: Not Pressed-up and going nowhere
Post by: cdbearsfan on January 06, 2020, 12:58:02 PM
Relegation or FA cup win?

It's a toughie. Having thought about it, though, I reckon I would rather win the FA Cup than get relegated.
Title: Re: Not Pressed-up and going nowhere
Post by: Chris Smith on January 06, 2020, 01:31:07 PM
I think our chances of winning the FA Cup are better if we stay in the Premier League. Given that the odds are against us having the squad to do it this year then I would argue that trying to make sure we stay up gives more chance of doing it at some point in the future.
Title: Re: Not Pressed-up and going nowhere
Post by: chrisw1 on January 06, 2020, 02:00:55 PM
I think our chances of winning the FA Cup are better if we stay in the Premier League. Given that the odds are against us having the squad to do it this year then I would argue that trying to make sure we stay up gives more chance of doing it at some point in the future.
Exactly.  Given the money in modern football and FFP, relegation is a disaster.  Stay up, consolidate, retain some of our best players and then we can fight on all fronts.
Title: Re: Not Pressed-up and going nowhere
Post by: nordenvillain on January 06, 2020, 02:23:24 PM
I think our chances of winning the FA Cup are better if we stay in the Premier League. Given that the odds are against us having the squad to do it this year then I would argue that trying to make sure we stay up gives more chance of doing it at some point in the future.
Exactly.  Given the money in modern football and FFP, relegation is a disaster.  Stay up, consolidate, retain some of our best players and then we can fight on all fronts.
This and I can remember us winning it in 57 ! We have to do all possible to avoid relegation that would lead to us losing all of our best players.
Title: Re: Not Pressed-up and going nowhere
Post by: in exile on January 06, 2020, 03:05:48 PM
I'd much rather stay in the Premier League than win the FA Cup
Title: Re: Not Pressed-up and going nowhere
Post by: Rico on January 06, 2020, 03:26:41 PM
Does anyone remember when we played Watford at Villa park in 83 (I think). There was well over 40,000. Pretty sure it was 3rd round. The FA cup back then was pure magic. Shame what's happened to it now, but I agree for now with some of the other posters that our best chance of actually winning the cup is to avoid relegation and kick on from there.
Title: Re: Not Pressed-up and going nowhere
Post by: cdbearsfan on January 06, 2020, 03:40:50 PM
It was the Fifth Round. A photo from the match was on the Subbuteo set I had as a youth.

Here... (https://www.google.com/search?q=subbuteo+set+villa+watford&client=ms-android-samsung-ss&prmd=sinv&sxsrf=ACYBGNRdRvlJgACjLBAe3RWOROlJNZi2_Q:1578324875211&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjAu5uspu_mAhW_URUIHREQAecQ_AUoAnoECA0QAg&biw=360&bih=620#imgrc=SgEjVlMBvPiHrM)

I always thought the image was of them scoring, but they're actually putting it just wide as shown from about four minutes in on the video below (from the Barnes free kick).

Highlights of the match...



Title: Re: Not Pressed-up and going nowhere
Post by: Drummond on January 06, 2020, 04:56:30 PM
www.thebirminghampress.com

Read it and weep.

I can't be arsed.  ;)


I agree with it Mr W. It's so frustrating, that what was the greatest cup competition of them all is reduced to what we see now. Clubs can't be arsed, so the fans can't be. So the TV companies can't be, so the clubs can't be. Which just means the spiral continues until they don't bother with it any more.

I refuse to watch any of it now we're out. I just hope all the remaining 'big clubs' get drawn against each other repeatedly and let other clubs have some fun.
Title: Re: Not Pressed-up and going nowhere
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on January 06, 2020, 05:05:55 PM
Bollocks to the FA Cup - I can't wait for us to survive this season so that I can have "17th in the league, 2019/20" tattooed across my tits.
Title: Re: Not Pressed-up and going nowhere
Post by: Drummond on January 06, 2020, 05:09:02 PM
Bollocks to the FA Cup - I can't wait for us to survive this season so that I can have "17th in the league, 2019/20" tattooed across my tits.

Dirty Glory Hunter.
Title: Re: Not Pressed-up and going nowhere
Post by: frankmosswasmyuncle on January 06, 2020, 05:38:34 PM
Another perfect summing up of proceedings and the situation, Mr Woodhall!
I wept on Saturday going home on the tube, and have no tears left!!!
Title: Re: Not Pressed-up and going nowhere
Post by: Whiney MacWhineface on January 06, 2020, 06:15:47 PM
And 53,000 turning up to VP on a school night (including a 14 year-old me) to see Forest play Swindon in a 5th round second replay in '67.
Title: Re: Not Pressed-up and going nowhere
Post by: ROBBO on January 06, 2020, 07:54:21 PM
I reminded myself of what it used to be by looking back at the 57 final and that spectacular first goal of Peter Mac, I was a thirteen year old watching my idols on the tele and could not believe the size of the crowd and wished I could have been there. Sad to say it means so little these days we should let it die gracefully as for me if we were to be relegated I may not be around to see Villa get promoted again.
Title: Re: Not Pressed-up and going nowhere
Post by: ez on January 06, 2020, 08:46:03 PM
Relegation or FA cup win?

It's a toughie. Having thought about it, though, I reckon I would rather win the FA Cup than get relegated.

Actually, relegation or fa cup win is not a difficult choice at all. Staying up or fa cup win? Now that's a toughie  ;)
Title: Re: Not Pressed-up and going nowhere
Post by: Rigadon on January 06, 2020, 09:04:42 PM
I understand why people lament the demise of the FA Cup.  It really was a massive deal in my childhood.  Cup Final day was a big thing everywhere despite who was playing.  As others have said, a lot of that was down to the fact that it was pretty much the only live domestic game you saw on the telly back then.  That said, Villa need to stay up this season or face a very uncertain future.  Let's stay up, build again and then go for it.
Title: Re: Not Pressed-up and going nowhere
Post by: Charlie8182 on January 06, 2020, 09:19:01 PM
Kids, if you want a flavour of what the Cup once was, get on that there YouTube and look up "Meanwhile Back In Sunderland".   Filmed around the town on the day of the 1973 final, in terms of social history and an understanding of how football in general and the F.A. Cup in particular could galvanize and unite a community, I think it's one of the greatest football-related documentaries of all time.

Wow that’s must see footage in 4 parts (on YouTube).  I can remember the FA cup final being like this in the 70s & 80s although sadly not with Villa involved at the time.
Title: Re: Not Pressed-up and going nowhere
Post by: russon on January 07, 2020, 08:13:04 AM
It was the Fifth Round. A photo from the match was on the Subbuteo set I had as a youth.

Here... (https://www.google.com/search?q=subbuteo+set+villa+watford&client=ms-android-samsung-ss&prmd=sinv&sxsrf=ACYBGNRdRvlJgACjLBAe3RWOROlJNZi2_Q:1578324875211&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjAu5uspu_mAhW_URUIHREQAecQ_AUoAnoECA0QAg&biw=360&bih=620#imgrc=SgEjVlMBvPiHrM)

I always thought the image was of them scoring, but they're actually putting it just wide as shown from about four minutes in on the video below (from the Barnes free kick).

Highlights of the match...





Watford warm up in front of the Holte?! I don’t remember the away teams doing that, was that a one off or a regular thing?
SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal