Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: mike on November 02, 2019, 10:40:20 PM
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I’m after some perspective here. I try to take my 8 year old to the family area but it sells out pretty quickly. We sat in the Upper Trinity today and the bloke behind my lad was screaming ‘fucking’ this, that and the other (when we were winning). Eventually, I turned round and pointed to my lad and looked at him. The conversation went like this
It’s football
Yes and he’s 8.
Don’t bring him, it’s football.
But you don’t have to do that.
It’s football, don’t bring him.
You don’t HAVE to do that, have some respect.
It’s football.
You don’t HAVE to do that.
So now, my lad doesn’t want to go to Villa Park again.
Is he a wuss or was that bloke out of order.
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My children come with me. They know not to repeat anything they hear. They know the bad words anyway - they hear them at school (and in the car but less said about that the better).
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I think it depends on the area of the ground.
In The Holte or Lower North - don’t take kids if you are not prepared to explain some colourful language.
In the Family area you have the right to expect no bad language.
The upper Trinity is one of those areas where I’d expect that people may ‘forget themselves’ at times but you probably wouldn’t expect a constant flow of swearing right through the game. I think this is the middle ground that anyone taking a child to a football match needs to deal with. We love it because if the high emotion, and that is how some people will respond.
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I think it depends on the area of the ground.
In The Holte or Lower North - don’t take kids if you are not prepared to explain some colourful language.
In the Family area you have the right to expect no bad language.
The upper Trinity is one of those areas where I’d expect that people may ‘forget themselves’ at times but you probably wouldn’t expect a constant flow of swearing right through the game. I think this is the middle ground that anyone taking a child to a football match needs to deal with. We love it because if the high emotion, and that is how some people will respond.
I agree, I just think he should have said, ‘soz mate’ and tried not to swear again, rather than, ‘tough don’t bring him.’
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You should've twatted him and said "sorry mate". That would be proper parenting,your kids would love it.
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He’s not a wuss and that bloke is bang out of order.
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Tough one isn’t it. I also take my 8 year old and I always hear something I wish I hadn’t. Last time against Brighton it was an extended chat about how big their winger’s dick must be (what is it with football fans and other men’s dicks?). There were some uncomfortable discussions about anti Irish comments aimed at the Bristol keeper last season too. It does put me off, but I guess I accept it as an uncomfortable but unavoidable part of the experience. Probably shouldn’t be that way.
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Double post
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The bloke is a complete idiot. But I try to avoid conflict when with my children as they do not like it at all. I also try to avoid swearing at the football because it really isn't necessary. It's a difficult one, which is why we had the conversation about swearing before I went for the first time.
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My dad first took me to watch the Villa the day after my 6th birthday (Swindon away in 1988...), by the time I was 9 or 10 we had a season ticket in the North Stand and went to half a dozen or so away games a season.
Didn't hear much swearing in the North Stand. The few times we did (more than the odd accidental slip), my dad had a word with them and most of the time that was that.
Obviously you hear more colourful language at away games but to be honest it didn't bother me or (I assume) my dad. I'd heard all the words before at school and knew not to use them. Same applies for the odd times (usually cup games) we went in the Holte End.
As for the pillock behind you, he was out of order. You do get 'em. I'd not let one idiot colour the experience. In the wider scheme of things they're rare. Your lad saw you telling him he was out of order, which is for me the most important thing, certainly more important than the outcome. In a few weeks time he'll remember you speaking up, not what the other bloke was doing.
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Can’t fault you on the specific incident as described. Your lad is not a “wus” (it doesn’t matter if he is by the way) and the bloke should have moderated his language, or made a simple “sorry mate, got carried away, try not to swear too much”.
My lad went first when he was six, we got him a season ticket when he was 10, endured the Holte lower at some of the worst of times performance-wise (relegation and Steve Bruce) and loved it from day one. The folk around us did moderate their language a little initially, but also made a joke of it.
He’s seen his dad lose his temper with, the team, opposition and fellow fans verbally and knows there are boundaries. I find racism and homophobia far more offensive than any language someone can scream.
However as a fan most do moderate language when youngsters are around them.
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Reminds me of going to my first games as a youngster, where my Dad told me that I might hear some rude words that it was very important not to repeat at home or at school.
Being Villa mad and loving the atmosphere, I wanted to sing everything so things so, hilariously, he took it upon himself to rework many villa chants to make them more palatable, favourites included:
"Sit on the city"
"My old man said be a city fan and I said no way Jose"
And "If you support the blues you're a bluenose person"
Like a few others in thus thread, it is a tricky one because a lot of blokes do seem to use football as a catharsis to scream and shout and take out their annoyance at life for 90 minutes. Gratuitous use of foul language really winds me up in that sense as it just makes the speaker sound thick.
On the other hand, the culture of football is such that some choice language is to be expected. I may or may not enjoy shouting a little bit of abuse at rival fans and players from time to time.
I actually think the broader point you make is an interesting one.... Why don't the club look to expand the "family area" seeing as it sells out so quickly.
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Took my eldest two to the Wolves game. There’s always going to be some swearing kids will hear, eg the “fuck VAR” yesterday, but I wouldn’t expect an adult to do it consistently in front of kids. I wouldn’t do it in front of somebody else’s.
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I'd possibly if you can try and get tickets in the family area and see how it goes but you'd expect the bloke to at least apologise and make an effort to keep the swearing to a minimum.
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That bloke sounds unbearable, Mike.
I hope your lad is back at Villa Park with you soon.
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There was a drunk lady who appeared behind us 2nd half. Directly behind my four year old and leaving forward C-bombing left right and centre.
I'm a swearer at the football, but if I can go two hours without uttering one in front of children, it shouldn't be beyond the wit of somebody in close proximity to mind their language a bit.
You know by 9 or 10 they know all the words anyway, but its courtesy.
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This is an interesting thread. I’m realising what we’ve seen so far maybe isn’t as representative as I thought/grudgingly accepted. Maybe we’ve just been unlucky enough to sit next to dick heads. What I’ve heard hasn’t been the odd lapse, it’s been constant foul mouthed chuntering. At her first game we were sat near a woman with a little 5-6 year old lad. I thought there might be a bit of parental solidarity until I heard her tell him to ‘get your fuckin arse here’!
I haven’t called anyone out, tempting as it was, because it felt like that would be worse for her but I was 50/50 and I think you’re damned either way. Fair pay for speaking up Mike.
It’s a great idea about expanding the family area. It’s been night on impossible to get seats there so far. You’d think they’d tie something in with cubs membership. Presumably they are looking at the demographics of the higher attendanceS and it would seem an obvious win for boosting gates if they aren’t putting off the likes of mike and his lad, which is actually pretty shameful.
In the meantime any tips on where is safest excluding family area? We’ve been in every area except the holte as that seemed the obvious place to avoid but I haven’t noticed a big difference. She does like to be lower to the pitch which I’m now thinking is the issue.
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The most cringeworthy chants that I hear coming off the terraces are the 'your support is f***** s***' and the 'you're f***** s***' ones. What is that makes 10,000 or so grown men want to 'sing' this? What is the point of it?
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With the Holte End selling out for every game the more noisy element will be dotted around in the two side stands, I believe there should be room for both those and kids. Maybe extend the family zone?
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It seems to be younger fans by and large, probably the kind of guys who are obsessed with Konsa’s penis. Personally I think anyone who knowingly drops a c bomb near a kid knows they are being shitty and is at major risk of getting lamped, and fully deserving it.
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It's just having resepect and adopting to your surroundings, it's a society issue. I sit in the Holte End and will sing and swear and stand up.If I'm in the Trinity I'll sit there and enjoy the game and applaud / jump up when we score.
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I really do hate the attitude of "It's football so I can do what I like" - usually from people who are the first to complain when they get treated badly.
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Football is someone`a identity, that can mean swearing, aggression and masculinity.
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I am sorry but when you sit in a ground where on occasions it seems like the whole ground sings "fuck the Albion" and similar songs containing the F word aimed towards the opposition fans, players , managers and now days VAR there is no family zone left. Children have sharp ears and they pick all that up.
However someone sitting behind your kid calling the ref a c*** is totally unacceptable.
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Football is someone`a identity, that can mean swearing, aggression and masculinity.
Welcome to the forum. Do you still work at IMI? ;)
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Football is someone`a identity, that can mean swearing, aggression and masculinity.
Funny you mention identity, is this your third in 24 hours or am I mistaken?
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I really do hate the attitude of "It's football so I can do what I like" - usually from people who are the first to complain when they get treated badly.
Spot on. People with kids at games accept they have to use a bit of discretion about where they sit and some tolerance about the behaviour of other fans given the environment they are in. It’s not too much to ask for some consideration the other way round.
Also I don’t see what’s masculine about singing songs about Konsa’s knob or shouting obscenities at someone going about their job, and I’m not especially woke.
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We all get emotional at football matches but if someone asks you to mind your language in front of their kid and you respond like that then you're just an arsehole.
I hope your boy can be persuaded to go back soon, Mike. He is absolutely not a wuss and you've every right to be angry.
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Tough one this, there’s no avoiding F###s, Wan@@r, sh&t and b@ll&$k..
It’s being yelled from everywhere (I sit with my kids in the family zone) , so to an extent you have to accept it. Or choose not to bring the kids.
Footballs always been a very sweary environment. Hope you lad is OK, my two are now of the age where they know more swear words than I do.
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Mike, it's possible that part of your boy being upset was that he saw you were upset. I wouldn't mind betting that he'll soon be asking you when the next game is. From my experience yesterday it might be worth you trying the Upper North Stand as another option next time if you can't get in the family area.
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The guy was bang out of order. I think if you didn't mind being up in the upper Trinity you'd be less likely to encounter the more rabid specimens.
This is also in no part a criticism but maybe take into account the choice of fixture. I'm a fairly shrug my shoulders type of guy, but when Newton Heath rock up I'm generally incensed from the first decision that goes against us up until the final whistle.
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I sit upper Holte so accept there's going to be swearing, noise and a bit of aggression. I've not said anything to try and stop people swearing, but yesterday was a bit beyond the pale.
Fortunately my son didn't ask what she was saying, so I didn't have to invent something, much like the reason we sing "buck" the Albion.
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The thread title needs to be changed to 'Taking Kids To Games'.
'Taking Kids' suggests we are swapping tips on how to abduct minors. ;)
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Thanks for all those comments. I’m not naive enough to expect there to be no swearing at a match, I just thought this bloke would tone it down when asked politely. As Dave Woodhall says, you don’t earn the right to be a twat when you buy a match ticket. For some perspective on my delicateness, I always sat at in the Holte End before I went with my children because I loved the atmosphere. My dad also took me to matches in the early 70s when things were a lot worse.
The family area gets full very quickly, even though they’ve expanded it. Partly, it’s because it’s so cheap. I suppose it’s difficult for the club encouraging youngsters (the next generation) whilst balancing the cash from ticket sales. I’d still buy them if they were the same price as elsewhere but maybe a lot of kids would miss out if their parents can’t afford it.
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It’s a difficult situation to be in. I sit in the lower north with my lad and the language is choice to say the least but I sort of expect it. He knows not to sing the various rude words in the songs and tells me off of i do.
He was though absolutely gutted yesterday after the match and said to me “Dad can I a swear”. I told him that for once he could. His choice was “Fuck you Liverpool”. That’ll be his one and only time but it did crack me up.
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Started taking my eldest when he was 3 or 4. Pre kids i'd only ever sat in the Holte but since then been all over the ground. Hes 8 now and we sit in the Lower Doug (he likes sitting on the hoarding where the players train pre match). Swearing seems a bit pot luck. My worst game was in the Trinity where there were four drunk blokes effing and jeffing all match. He understands the swearing its the aggression that wrong foots him a bit sometimes. We had a season in the Upper North and it wasn't too bad but it was first Championship season I think so everyone was numb rather than angry for a lot of it.
Hope you take him again and have a different experience.
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My dad took me to my first match when i was 10. I said to him "dad can i call the ref a wanker?" He replied "no son that's swearing" so i said "what about if i just think he's a wanker?" He thought about it and said "well son i can't stop you thinking things" So i replied "ok then dad.I think the referees a wanker"
#some thing maybe made up for comedic effect#
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Started taking my eldest when he was 3 or 4. Pre kids i'd only ever sat in the Holte but since then been all over the ground. Hes 8 now and we sit in the Lower Doug (he likes sitting on the hoarding where the players train pre match). Swearing seems a bit pot luck. My worst game was in the Trinity where there were four drunk blokes effing and jeffing all match. He understands the swearing its the aggression that wrong foots him a bit sometimes. We had a season in the Upper North and it wasn't too bad but it was first Championship season I think so everyone was numb rather than angry for a lot of it.
Hope you take him again and have a different experience.
You’re right in that it’s the aggression as well as the language. We went to the Ipswich match last season, again in the Upper Trinity, and some old blokes whinged, wined and moaned all match, shouting (well deserved) abuse at the players without actually swearing and that cheesed him off. But that, I have to accept is what people do at matches.
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Maybe we should make the Holte End over 16s only and have a real nosiy boisterous stand and then have a dedicated family stand with a strict policy of parents and kids only? Make it more friendly for families.
Our crowds have been fantastic and we need to retain these numbers for the future. It's refreshing to see every game sell out, if demand continues and we stay up we can increase capacity and have more space for people to sit where they feel more comfortable
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Slightly off topic but me and my 9 year old lad went to Leipzig in pre-season, and were sat outside a bar in the town when 'that' Konsa chant was being belted out. My lad questioned me (he likes to learn the new chants), so rather than try to explain it I said they're singing about his car as its really big.
Fast forward to Saturday morning and I took him to VP early to get a few autographs/selfies with the players as they arrived. All was fine until Konsa drove in and parked up, then as he approached us and obliged with a selfie, my nipper said with all the childhood innocence you'd expect "I thought your car would be a bit bigger than that", Konsa just looked slightly bemused for a second before smiling and saying "enjoy the game"...
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I would say masculine conditions are very beneficial for youngsters at football.
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Particularly for the girls.
They just need to understand the rambling, gambling working class man from North Birmingham and his culture.
And if they don't, they should grow a pair.
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Particularly for the girls.
They just need to understand the rambling, gambling working class man from North Birmingham and his culture.
And if they don't, they should grow a pair.
and aggressiveness.