Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: kippaxvilla2 on October 30, 2019, 10:01:03 PM

Title: The Crowd.
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 30, 2019, 10:01:03 PM
I wanted to go tonight.  But was advised it was sold out.  According to the beeb there was less than 35k there.  Where is the sense not giving the season ticket holders a deadline and therefore reselling.  Also I hear today that despite the sold out signs up for Saturday tickets are still available. 
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: London Villan on October 30, 2019, 10:02:27 PM
Not sure how the maths worked unless they have to declare the real attendance? Lots of missing regulars by us.
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on October 30, 2019, 10:03:07 PM
Although there were some empty seats, it was staggering to hear the crowd announcement. Shades of Doug.
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 30, 2019, 10:05:09 PM
As ST holders were free entry any that didn't turn up won't be counted, unlike league games. This will be to do with having to split gate money. As far as I know even though the tickets were free for ST the club has to pay out on them.

Is my guess.
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on October 30, 2019, 10:06:04 PM
As ST holders were free entry any that didn't turn up won't be counted, unlike league games. This will be to do with having to split gate money. As far as I know even though the tickets were free for ST the club has to pay out on them.

Is my guess.
I know,but even so.....
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 30, 2019, 10:08:49 PM
I wanted to go tonight.  But was advised it was sold out.  According to the beeb there was less than 35k there.  Where is the sense not giving the season ticket holders a deadline and therefore reselling.  Also I hear today that despite the sold out signs up for Saturday tickets are still available. 

It was sold out in the sense that the club sold all the tickets they knew they could sell without issue.

All season ticket holders got the match free. Until people actually get in the ground, there is no knowing how many of those will turn up so all they can do is sell capacity minus number of ST holders minus away fans (much larger allocation than normal).

The reason tickets occasionally come up for sale for home league matches which are declared sold out is because, once the match sells out, the club gives ST holders the chance to sell their tickets for them.

I don't see the controversy in any of the above. Free CC ticket is obviously part of the deal to make ST purchases more appealing. What's wrong with that?
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: Ads on October 30, 2019, 10:08:56 PM
No way was there only 35k on there. Bizarre.
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: eamonn on October 30, 2019, 10:14:04 PM
So how many were in the ground?
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on October 30, 2019, 10:18:01 PM
So how many were in the ground?
39,000
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: Flin5tone on October 30, 2019, 10:20:49 PM
no way on earth were there only 34k there
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 30, 2019, 10:21:44 PM
So how many were in the ground?
39,000

Surely there were at least 30,000 Wolves fans there?
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: The Edge on October 30, 2019, 10:24:37 PM
According to the official stats there were 7,000 empty seats in Villa Park tonight. There was an audible WTF? when they announced the crowd. I can't remember the game but it was the same last season when they announced exactly 37,000. The ghost of Deadly still looms over us!
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: London Villan on October 30, 2019, 10:27:29 PM
Didnt this happen in the cup last year too?
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: olaftab on October 30, 2019, 10:29:38 PM
As ST holders were free entry any that didn't turn up won't be counted, unlike league games. This will be to do with having to split gate money. As far as I know even though the tickets were free for ST the club has to pay out on them.

Is my guess.
Yes looking across from Trinity Witton Lane was half empty as season ticket holders opted not to be there. So if we’re not counted in 34K is about right.
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 30, 2019, 10:30:14 PM
I seriously doubt that the club are fiddling figures of a few thousand £10 seats.
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: luke95 on October 30, 2019, 10:33:53 PM
According to the official stats there were 7,000 empty seats in Villa Park tonight. There was an audible WTF? when they announced the crowd. I can't remember the game but it was the same last season when they announced exactly 37,000. The ghost of Deadly still looms over us!
Very noticable there many empty seats in the Doug Ellis.
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on October 30, 2019, 10:33:53 PM
I wanted to go tonight.  But was advised it was sold out.  According to the beeb there was less than 35k there.  Where is the sense not giving the season ticket holders a deadline and therefore reselling.  Also I hear today that despite the sold out signs up for Saturday tickets are still available. 

It was sold out in the sense that the club sold all the tickets they knew they could sell without issue.

All season ticket holders got the match free. Until people actually get in the ground, there is no knowing how many of those will turn up so all they can do is sell capacity minus number of ST holders minus away fans (much larger allocation than normal).

The reason tickets occasionally come up for sale for home league matches which are declared sold out is because, once the match sells out, the club gives ST holders the chance to sell their tickets for them.

I don't see the controversy in any of the above. Free CC ticket is obviously part of the deal to make ST purchases more appealing. What's wrong with that?

Im not a season ticket holder and have every respect for those that are.  But even though the tickets were free to ST holders couldn’t they set a deadline for them to claim their seats?  Then resell any not claimed? Or genuinely am I missing something?
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: saunders_heroes on October 30, 2019, 10:34:15 PM
8k empty seats? Not a chance. There were empty seats on both sides of the lower north and a block of about 50 in the upper north but other than that the place was packed out.
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: Villafirst on October 30, 2019, 10:37:35 PM
No way you would get 8k more in the ground. 34k ? Sounds dodgy for whatever reason??
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: Ad@m on October 30, 2019, 10:39:46 PM
8k empty seats? Not a chance. There were empty seats on both sides of the lower north and a block of about 50 in the upper north but other than that the place was packed out.

This. I'd estimate 2 or 3 thousand empty seats tops. Where they got 34,000 from is an absolute mystery.
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: shirley_villan on October 30, 2019, 10:40:21 PM
They also quoted the Swanses FA Cup game in Jan as being circa 30k which was blatantly wrong. Not sure how they work it out..
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: saunders_heroes on October 30, 2019, 10:40:30 PM
8k empty seats? Not a chance. There were empty seats on both sides of the lower north and a block of about 50 in the upper north but other than that the place was packed out.

This. I'd estimate 2 or 3 thousand empty seats tops. Where they got 34,000 from is an absolute mystery.

Tax fiddle!
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 30, 2019, 10:44:47 PM
Assuming Wolves sold their full allocation there would still have been around 1800 empty seats in the North.
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: AVH87 on October 30, 2019, 10:47:21 PM
I don't think 35k was far off.

Like PWS said the North was segregated there's 2k, Doug Ellis had 2k empties at a guess, a few hundred scattered across the Holte, couldn't see the Trinity as was sat in it, but that takes you down to 37-38k straight away and then there's probably a few people who paid a tenner and then went away for half term so didn't go in the end.
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: Legion on October 30, 2019, 10:49:29 PM
Didnt this happen in the cup last year too?

It did. Swansea, I think.
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on October 30, 2019, 10:50:19 PM
As ST holders were free entry any that didn't turn up won't be counted, unlike league games. This will be to do with having to split gate money. As far as I know even though the tickets were free for ST the club has to pay out on them.

Is my guess.
Yes looking across from Trinity Witton Lane was half empty as season ticket holders opted not to be there. So if we’re not counted in 34K is about right.
Half empty? ¾  full more like
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: olaftab on October 30, 2019, 10:55:28 PM
Assuming Wolves sold their full allocation there would still have been around 1800 empty seats in the North.
As Wolves had both upper and lower tier I didn't understand why the first 3 rows of seats in the upper were closed off?
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: QuintonVilla on October 30, 2019, 10:57:49 PM
As I said on here the other day, the fact the club didn't give season ticket holders a date to claim their seat by and then put the remainder on sale was utterly bizarre. As predicted it resulted in thousands of empty seats when other fans would have filled them and resulted in returned tickets yesterday that most didn't even know about and was too late notice.
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on October 30, 2019, 11:10:15 PM
So how many were in the ground?
39,000 40,110

FTFY
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: aldridgeboy on October 30, 2019, 11:16:38 PM
I wanted to go tonight.  But was advised it was sold out.  According to the beeb there was less than 35k there.  Where is the sense not giving the season ticket holders a deadline and therefore reselling.  Also I hear today that despite the sold out signs up for Saturday tickets are still available. 

It was sold out in the sense that the club sold all the tickets they knew they could sell without issue.

All season ticket holders got the match free. Until people actually get in the ground, there is no knowing how many of those will turn up so all they can do is sell capacity minus number of ST holders minus away fans (much larger allocation than normal).

The reason tickets occasionally come up for sale for home league matches which are declared sold out is because, once the match sells out, the club gives ST holders the chance to sell their tickets for them.

I don't see the controversy in any of the above. Free CC ticket is obviously part of the deal to make ST purchases more appealing. What's wrong with that?

Im not a season ticket holder and have every respect for those that are.  But even though the tickets were free to ST holders couldn’t they set a deadline for them to claim their seats?  Then resell any not claimed? Or genuinely am I missing something?

I guess they could. And maybe should with a local game like tonight. But if no Money is involved, there’s nothing to stop ST holders claiming the ticket( either on line or in person) and just not turning up on the night. Like some did tonight?

Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: DB on October 30, 2019, 11:59:02 PM
From the back of the Trinity there were a few empty seats dotted in the Witton, but no way they figure was under 35k, even with reduced seats for the North (segregation etc.).
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: Risso on October 31, 2019, 12:23:09 AM
From the back of the Trinity there were a few empty seats dotted in the Witton, but no way they figure was under 35k, even with reduced seats for the North (segregation etc.).

35K seemed about right to me.  There were lots of empty seats in the Witton, and the corner bit between the Trinity and the Holte wasn't used at all.  Didn't look like the Dingles brought their full allocation.
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 31, 2019, 01:06:59 AM
They had a 5300 allocation and the North holds over 7k so there was always going to be loads of empty seats in there
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: chrisw1 on October 31, 2019, 08:57:08 AM
From the back of the Trinity there were a few empty seats dotted in the Witton, but no way they figure was under 35k, even with reduced seats for the North (segregation etc.).

35K seemed about right to me.  There were lots of empty seats in the Witton, and the corner bit between the Trinity and the Holte wasn't used at all.  Didn't look like the Dingles brought their full allocation.
Agreed, loads of empty seats dotted around.  Not at all surprised it was £35k.  The club should learn, a free ticket is great, but get season ticket holders to register for it.  At a tenner a pop I'm sure they could have sold a lot of those empty places.
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: UK Redsox on October 31, 2019, 09:07:09 AM

Im not a season ticket holder and have every respect for those that are.  But even though the tickets were free to ST holders couldn’t they set a deadline for them to claim their seats?  Then resell any not claimed? Or genuinely am I missing something?

That's what many of us said at the time. This was a daft way of handling tickets.

With cheaper prices and it being half-term for many kids, this would have been an ideal opportunity to bring in fans who can't get tickets for league games.
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 31, 2019, 09:27:19 AM
From the back of the Trinity there were a few empty seats dotted in the Witton, but no way they figure was under 35k, even with reduced seats for the North (segregation etc.).

35K seemed about right to me.  There were lots of empty seats in the Witton, and the corner bit between the Trinity and the Holte wasn't used at all.  Didn't look like the Dingles brought their full allocation.
Agreed, loads of empty seats dotted around.  Not at all surprised it was £35k.  The club should learn, a free ticket is great, but get season ticket holders to register for it.  At a tenner a pop I'm sure they could have sold a lot of those empty places.

I don't think any were sold on general sale, were they? With the way tickets for league games are going in no time, it would have presented an opportunity for at least a couple of thousand to get a toenail on the booking history ladder, and more importantly perhaps a chance for some to watch the Villa just once this season.

But it's done now. A lesson learned, hopefully.
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: exigo on October 31, 2019, 09:55:28 AM
There were loads of empty seats dotted about in L3, and you could see plenty elsewhere.

The difference last night is that those seats, mostly STHs not reselling, won't be counted as the 'attendance' is actually seats sold. For a league game, if you don't turn up as a STH you get counted, as you paid. Last night, you wouldn't be.
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: DB on October 31, 2019, 11:25:35 AM
From the back of the Trinity there were a few empty seats dotted in the Witton, but no way they figure was under 35k, even with reduced seats for the North (segregation etc.).

35K seemed about right to me.  There were lots of empty seats in the Witton, and the corner bit between the Trinity and the Holte wasn't used at all.  Didn't look like the Dingles brought their full allocation.
Agreed, loads of empty seats dotted around.  Not at all surprised it was £35k.  The club should learn, a free ticket is great, but get season ticket holders to register for it.  At a tenner a pop I'm sure they could have sold a lot of those empty places.

I know, but over 6k down???
Maybe take the Arsenal approach an go on seats sold / reserved rather than how many actually turned up. They get 60k no matter how many empty seats you see on tv. Haha
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 31, 2019, 11:28:05 AM
From the back of the Trinity there were a few empty seats dotted in the Witton, but no way they figure was under 35k, even with reduced seats for the North (segregation etc.).

35K seemed about right to me.  There were lots of empty seats in the Witton, and the corner bit between the Trinity and the Holte wasn't used at all.  Didn't look like the Dingles brought their full allocation.
Agreed, loads of empty seats dotted around.  Not at all surprised it was £35k.  The club should learn, a free ticket is great, but get season ticket holders to register for it.  At a tenner a pop I'm sure they could have sold a lot of those empty places.

I know, but over 6k down???
Maybe take the Arsenal approach an go on seats sold / reserved rather than how many actually turned up. They get 60k no matter how many empty seats you see on tv. Haha

For the 8,326th (approx) time - Premier League rules state that the published attendance is tickets sold. That applies to all clubs. 
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: Risso on October 31, 2019, 11:28:49 AM
Both the top and the bottom of the Witton only looked ⅔ full, so with the 1,700 missing in the North, there'd only need to be a thousand less in the Trinity and Holte End and there's your 5-6K easily.
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: Nev on October 31, 2019, 01:43:22 PM
It was noticeable that there wasn't a seat to be had in the normal away section of the Witton Lane, with no ST holders to not turn up it was packed and everyone in their were having a ball by the looks of things.

I also noticed the corporate section in the Upper North being empty, I assume that there is no access from the normal concourse so Wolves fans couldn't sit there. Putting rivalry to one side it was a shame such a premium view went unused.
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: ktvillan on October 31, 2019, 01:47:21 PM
If there were 7-8k empty seats in the ground last night I'm a one legged dutchman called Sharon.
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: DB on October 31, 2019, 03:09:16 PM
From the back of the Trinity there were a few empty seats dotted in the Witton, but no way they figure was under 35k, even with reduced seats for the North (segregation etc.).

35K seemed about right to me.  There were lots of empty seats in the Witton, and the corner bit between the Trinity and the Holte wasn't used at all.  Didn't look like the Dingles brought their full allocation.
Agreed, loads of empty seats dotted around.  Not at all surprised it was £35k.  The club should learn, a free ticket is great, but get season ticket holders to register for it.  At a tenner a pop I'm sure they could have sold a lot of those empty places.

I know, but over 6k down???
Maybe take the Arsenal approach an go on seats sold / reserved rather than how many actually turned up. They get 60k no matter how many empty seats you see on tv. Haha


For the 8,326th (approx) time - Premier League rules state that the published attendance is tickets sold. That applies to all clubs. 

Yeah ok, but this was the EFL, just to be pedantic
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: Border villan on October 31, 2019, 04:19:19 PM
For the 8,326th (approx) time - Premier League rules state that the published attendance is tickets sold. That applies to all clubs.
[/quote]
The above is a quote from Dave W.

But the season ticket holders were “given” their tickets, not sold them so the listed attendance still makes no sense.
In addition this competition is not run by the Premier League so its rules do not apply.
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 31, 2019, 04:25:29 PM
It does when the club has to pay for them as gate money is split for cup matches. And Dave was replying to someone asking about Arsenal announcing 60k crowds when it's obvious there's a lot less in the ground which has happened a fair few times for their league games.
Title: Re: The Crowd.
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 31, 2019, 04:39:25 PM
Assuming it was £10 a ticket anywhere in the ground, for every ST holder that turned up last night the club will have to pay Wolves £4.50 and £1.00 to the prize fund.
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