Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Chipsticks on September 26, 2019, 01:34:22 PM
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This is a big game and I think we'll do the business.
For me, I'd like to see Targett at LB, Hourihane at CDM, and Jota on the wing for this - think they'll all be important in breaking a well-organised team down.
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We have to win. HAVE to. Burnley are a good side, but that's the thing about the top division, there tend to be done good sides in this. Drawing with either Burnley or West Ham at home is fine so long as you beat the other one.
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3-0 Villa.
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Must win and we will win. UTV
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Tough game indeed, win 2-1.
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Conor and Targett to come in
keep Marvelous
leave DS to sort the rest
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I can see us winning this 2-0.
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Conor and Targett to come in
keep Marvelous
Who would you drop to accommodate Conor? Unless we change the formation, there's no way McGinn or Jack are getting benched.
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3-1 to the kit-donators.
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Need to get a win here.
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A very tough game. I heard a Burnley player saying after the victory over Norwich last week that they were looking forward to this run of games as they thought they could pick up points. I expect a draw.
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My impression of Burnley is of a team who don't score many but don't concede many. After checking their stats this season I was right. Played 6 won 2 drawn 2 lost 2 scoring only eight goals but conceding only 7. They are a side who I usually fancy might get something from their home games but I don't usually fancy them to get much from their away games. Let's hope I am right.
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It’s a hard one, Burnley will be looking to get something but at the same time organised and wary of us. Should be an interesting game.
Whether or not we feel this should be a fixture we should win, the results so far have made it into a very important game that we could well do with winning. Villa Park sold out and the pressure will be on.
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Any sort of win will do.
2-1 CYVB.
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1-0 to us. Trezeguet.
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We have to win this and get as many points from our next four games. Bring back Conor, go with four in midfield and a winger, probably Trez and really go at them.
3-1 Villa - Jack, Wez, Conor
HEATON
GUILBERT
TAYLOR
ENGELS
MINGS
LUIZ
CONOR
JACK
SJM
TREZER
WEZER
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D 1-1.
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2-1 Villa. Like to see Targett at LB, need a more attacking option than Taylor.
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I’d quite enjoy a clean-sheet, especially after Sunday.
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No hard luck stories this weekend.
2-0 win. Early goal and then near the end to seal things, similar to Everton.
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Burnley are a gnarled, strong, Premier League outfit but they do have Matt Lowton and Ashley Westwood constituting one fifth of their team so
1-1. Lowton og and Westwood floaty corner for them.
However Christ we have more quality than them and we're at home and we need the win so 2-1 us.
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We never lose to Burnley so we are going to thrash them 2-1.
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Burnley are a gnarled, strong, Premier League outfit but they do have Matt Lowton and Ashley Westwood constituting one fifth of their team so
1-1. Lowton og and Westwood floaty corner for them.
However Christ we have more quality than them and we're at home and we need the win so 2-1 us.
I’m always surprised when I am reminded that those two are still going.
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They scored from a Westwood corner at the weekend.
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Belief has been mentioned a few times since Sunday and I think it'll play a big part this weekend. If we go in off the back of a good midweek result and believe we can win we will. If we fall behind or get drawn level and lack belief in that moment we wont.
This could prove a pivotal game in our season this one. 2-2.
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No game is a must win in September. Be nice to win though...2-1.
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Can't go to this one, so have sold my seats.
Expect a thumping 3-0 win.
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a clean sheet please Villa...
UTV
The Doc
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They scored from a Westwood corner at the weekend.
"Pointy, floaty....goal...Burnley"
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Conor and Targett to come in
keep Marvelous
Who would you drop to accommodate Conor? Unless we change the formation, there's no way McGinn or Jack are getting benched.
one of the wingers
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Just play him and don't drop anyone, it's not like officials or VAR know the rules.
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Surely Jack wide will happen at some point. We saw for Wesley's goal against Arsenal that Jack is at his best and most useful getting on the ball in dangerous areas. He's trying to be Xavi, Iniesta and Zidane all in one right now and it's not working.
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We never lose to Burnley so we are going to thrash them 2-1.
They did us at Villa Park in out last meeting. Depressing day after a depressing humiliation at Southampton and before the even more depressing FA Cup final . Dark days indeed.
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Both Woods and Barnes are big bastards, we're going to have to be awake at the back for 90+ minutes. I wouldn't start Jota, he's too one-paced; Trez is our man for that side of the pitch. SJG behind Big Wes and a midfield of SJM, Trez, Marv and Luiz. Conor off the bench for SJM at some point. Targett and Taylor are much of a muchness, so stick with Taylor.
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We never lose to Burnley so we are going to thrash them 2-1.
They did us at Villa Park in out last meeting. Depressing day after a depressing humiliation at Southampton and before the even more depressing FA Cup final . Dark days indeed.
I recall them singing 'Arsenal will murder you', it was just before the end of the season (and the cup final)
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We never lose to Burnley so we are going to thrash them 2-1.
They did us at Villa Park in out last meeting. Depressing day after a depressing humiliation at Southampton and before the even more depressing FA Cup final . Dark days indeed.
I recall them singing 'Arsenal will murder you', it was just before the end of the season (and the cup final)
Well we fucking showed them didn’t we?
Got to get a win here, it makes sense to target winnable games and this is one of them. I think we will as well. 3.0
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I'd swap Hourihane in for El Ghazi.
Heaton
Guilbert Engels Mings Taylor
Marvelous/Luiz (can't decide who)
McGinn Grealish
Trezeguet Hourihane
Wesley
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Surely Jack wide will happen at some point. We saw for Wesley's goal against Arsenal that Jack is at his best and most useful getting on the ball in dangerous areas. He's trying to be Xavi, Iniesta and Zidane all in one right now and it's not working.
I just can’t see it happening. It would take Jack out of his best position, in my opinion, and given our wingers generally play quite wide will almost certainly see him have considerably less of the ball - which is not a tactic I would particular like to see us employ.
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Ref will again play a major role - they probably see the criticism as Villa attacking them, and they will make us pay.
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Surely Jack wide will happen at some point. We saw for Wesley's goal against Arsenal that Jack is at his best and most useful getting on the ball in dangerous areas. He's trying to be Xavi, Iniesta and Zidane all in one right now and it's not working.
I just can’t see it happening. It would take Jack out of his best position, in my opinion, and given our wingers generally play quite wide will almost certainly see him have considerably less of the ball - which is not a tactic I would particular like to see us employ.
What's he doing with it though? He sees a lot of the ball right now and he looks indecisive as if he has too many options and not enough time. He will adjust to the pace of the league again but in that position it takes time, and in the meanwhile he could be extremely effective as a sort of roaming inside left. If it was a good enough learning curve for Iniesta it's good enough for Jack.
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What's the name of the referee that's going to fuck us over this week then?
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Nearly 30% don't think we will beat Burnley, at home!?
Can I ask those 30%, who the hell do you think we will beat at home?
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Nearly 30% don't think we will beat Burnley, at home!?
Can I ask those 30%, who the hell do you think we will beat at home?
Er...is voting for a Villa win obligatory? A sign of your True Faith?
If that's your view of the result then I truly hope you are right!!
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Nearly 30% don't think we will beat Burnley, at home!?
Can I ask those 30%, who the hell do you think we will beat at home?
Well, that's the question isn't it?
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Surely Jack wide will happen at some point. We saw for Wesley's goal against Arsenal that Jack is at his best and most useful getting on the ball in dangerous areas. He's trying to be Xavi, Iniesta and Zidane all in one right now and it's not working.
I just can’t see it happening. It would take Jack out of his best position, in my opinion, and given our wingers generally play quite wide will almost certainly see him have considerably less of the ball - which is not a tactic I would particular like to see us employ.
What's he doing with it though? He sees a lot of the ball right now and he looks indecisive as if he has too many options and not enough time. He will adjust to the pace of the league again but in that position it takes time, and in the meanwhile he could be extremely effective as a sort of roaming inside left. If it was a good enough learning curve for Iniesta it's good enough for Jack.
I actually think he has improved in the last few games. Certainly in terms of using the ball better and chance creation (was involved in three good chances against West Ham - Wesley’s, Guilbert’s and his own and then his assist and the chance that Trezeguet should have scored against Arsenal).
I understand the logic where players get moved wider to try and give them more time and space on the ball, but I just don’t think Jack needs that at this stage. Also, I am not sure that taking him from that central position and replacing him with, presumably, Hourihane would be of benefit to the team.
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I would have both Luiz and Nakamba in the side, with Luiz as something between a 6 and an 8 (football jargon is dumb - why is something between a 6 and an 8 not a 7?). It's fair enough to want him central - I definitely feel that's where he'll end up playing - but I just think that at the moment we need his incision more than we need his learning on the job playmaking. If you look at his touch maps he spends most of his time inside left anyway, this would just be a way to formalise that role for him.
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Me too. Both good players with good engines.
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Yeah, I can see that and it’s a valid point. I certainly wouldn’t be too disappointed if it did happen. However, personally I just haven’t seen enough of Luiz to suggest that him playing further forward (or equally, as a few have mentioned, Hourihane slotting in there) would be a preferable option to Jack central and then El Ghazi/Jota wide - particularly in a game like Saturday where you would hope we would be on the front foot and looking to break them down.
I feel Grealish has shown enough the last two league games that he getting through the ‘learning on the job’ phase and is having a bigger impact on games and would be personally be happy for him to continue there.
As an aside, were Jack to play in an inside left position, I certainly think it would pretty much necessitate Targett playing over Taylor.
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I would have both Luiz and Nakamba in the side, with Luiz as something between a 6 and an 8 (football jargon is dumb - why is something between a 6 and an 8 not a 7?). It's fair enough to want him central - I definitely feel that's where he'll end up playing - but I just think that at the moment we need his incision more than we need his learning on the job playmaking. If you look at his touch maps he spends most of his time inside left anyway, this would just be a way to formalise that role for him.
Absolutely my thoughts too.
And a 7 is a winger! Surely you should all know that!
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I would have both Luiz and Nakamba in the side, with Luiz as something between a 6 and an 8 (football jargon is dumb - why is something between a 6 and an 8 not a 7?). It's fair enough to want him central - I definitely feel that's where he'll end up playing - but I just think that at the moment we need his incision more than we need his learning on the job playmaking. If you look at his touch maps he spends most of his time inside left anyway, this would just be a way to formalise that role for him.
Absolutely my thoughts too.
And a 7 is a winger! Surely you should all know that!
That's what I mean, why is a 7 not a box to box midfielder, between a 6 and an 8? It makes no sense.
As to the Targett/Taylor debate, I agree it makes more sense going forward to play Targett, but as long as Taylor does the right things positionally we can still keep the pitch big with him looking to overlap, even if we don't actually use him and his horror crossing too much.
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Surely Jack wide will happen at some point.
The player himself doesn't want it.
There was an interview with him recently where -apart from an injury of some description - he put his indifferent form in our relegation year down to playing out of position.
That's not to say he can't pull wide and do the full-back over and over again if it's getting us joy in a particular match. But starting wide and staying there for the majority of the game would blunt his effectiveness.
Jack gets the ball in the centre of the park: the opposition get nervous and three to four bodies appear around him.
Jack gets the ball out wide: the opposition get nervous and three to four bodies appear around him.
We can do more damage with the gaps in the centre of the park.
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We'll score early, then shit ourselves for the remainder of the match.
1-0 win
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Jack's not a winger but I think he could play inside left. It would get him into more advanced positions and attack that space much like he did for the goals at Crewe and Arsenal
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Similar to the Bournemouth game. Many think we’ll brush them aside.
More PL calamity I fear.
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Burnely and their 442 with Ashley Westwood in their midfield. Hmmmm.
I'd go with the following;
Heaton
Targett
Mings
Engels
Freddie
Nkamba
McGinn
Grealish
Trezuguet
Wesley
El Ghazi
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Bench could be important tomorrow, given that it is fairly likely that the game will be quite tight.
Presuming Smith sticks with the same line up, I would hope for Targett over Elmohamady and maybe worth trying to find space for Kodjia.
Interesting, given his goal threat, that Smith hasn’t brought Connor on in either home game that we were needing a goal. Easy to say with hindsight but certainly his finishing around the box might have been useful in both games against teams sitting deep.
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Gutted. Was missing the game tomorrow due to going to a gig that's been booked for months.
Now the gig has been cancelled by the band at the last minute and I've sold my ST's for tomorrow!!
No football. No gig.
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2-0 Villa win, in the bag.
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I have a few minutes ago received my match day guide email from avfc.co.uk, informing me that the match kicks off tomorrow at 8pm. WTF?
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Lots of permutations around for starting 11 but I hope 3 or 4 that started Wednesday will start.
Heaton
Targett Engels Mings FRED
I think wingers and Wes have not lived up to expectations so I’d like to see how we could fit Connor, luiz, marvellous, SJM and jack all in....they’ve all got a case to start I think so fit them in along with Keinan.
I’m not really sure of formation but I think it we be great from an attacking sense
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Interesting listening to their manager, the guy who eats boxes of cigarettes, say after their win against Norwich last week that they had targeted Norwich playing out from the back and worked hard on a high press. Expect they will try similar tomorrow so we'd better not dick around at the back.
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Has there been even the slightest hint that DS will change either the system or the position of Jack or SJM?
No. Didn’t think so.
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Has there been even the slightest hint that DS will change either the system or the position of Jack or SJM?
No. Didn’t think so.
I hope he doesn't. Not because I don't think we wouldn't be better if he did, but because I'm convinced that he believes it will work, and that if he deviates from his philosophy he'll not be the head coach he believes himself to be. I don't think he wants his wingers with chalk on their boots, and I doubt very much that he wants McGinn and Grealish too far from our centre-forward. But until we "gel", until our fullbacks become more prominent, until we get tighter narrower, we'll be very much a work in progress.
That said, more progression tomorrow. 3-0 us, Mings amongst them.
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I would have both Luiz and Nakamba in the side, with Luiz as something between a 6 and an 8 (football jargon is dumb - why is something between a 6 and an 8 not a 7?). It's fair enough to want him central - I definitely feel that's where he'll end up playing - but I just think that at the moment we need his incision more than we need his learning on the job playmaking. If you look at his touch maps he spends most of his time inside left anyway, this would just be a way to formalise that role for him.
Agree with this Monty, but think having two deeper lying midfielders probably depends on how the opposition set up. I agree about Grealish playing in a more advanced role on the left side, but think we would have to play Targett to get on the outside in the space Grealish created for it to be really effective.
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I don't normally bother with other teams' forums but I just had a look at some Burnley one and fuck me do they think a lot of themselves.
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I don't normally bother with other teams' forums but I just had a look at some Burnley one and fuck me do they think a lot of themselves.
Apparently according to them we’ve got ‘temperamental support’. I thought we’d got super John McGinn?
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I don't normally bother with other teams' forums but I just had a look at some Burnley one and fuck me do they think a lot of themselves.
Apparently according to them we’ve got ‘temperamental support’. I thought we’d got super John McGinn?
I always find this funny when you get teams who spend a few seasons in the Premier League and suddenly think they're 'established'. They're not established, they're the next Bolton, Wigan, Portsmouth, Blues, Stoke, Ipswich, Swansea, etc. etc.
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Come on the Villa boys! 2 clean sheets in the last 2 home games. Let's make it 3 out of 3 and if we take our chances the 3 points will be ours! UTV!
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I don't normally bother with other teams' forums but I just had a look at some Burnley one and fuck me do they think a lot of themselves.
Which ones Dave?
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I suppose a few seasons in mid table in the premier league does make you "established" - so were we, and it didn't stop us being really shite and all that. I have to say i have no time for Burnley fans at all (or the whole Burnley, Nelson Colne town but thats another story!). They have no class at all - i once went there with a mate for the last game of the season, he is a Plymouth fan, they won and relegated Plymouth, then invaded the pitch and came over to the away end in droves trying to incite a riot. Lancashire plod did sweet fa to stop them. One of the most unpleasant games I've been to.
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They play two up front (well, they did last week) so whether we change our shape or have a plan in place for it, we'll have to see. It's another game we should win but I'm going for a draw. Tresequet to get off the mark and McGinn with another one.
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I think so too Clampy. They won't be too adventurous and will sit back and try to play on the break. That's why it's important we start quick and try and get an early goal to open up the game.
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Burnley to win 1 - 0! Superb Grealish free kick disallowed because an Aston Villa player looked as though he might try and stand within 10 yards of the defensive wall. Burnley winner a ricochet of the refs arse and into the net of Chris Woods arm. Given because not seen by the ref and VAR elect not to over rule the on field decision. Am I feeling cynical? Maybe just a tad
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I don't normally bother with other teams' forums but I just had a look at some Burnley one and fuck me do they think a lot of themselves.
Which ones Dave?
http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42133
As sd..etc said, there's a few clubs like that who come up, spend a couple of seasons in the Premier League then make out they're our equals.
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Having a brief flick through their site, I'd forgotten Rodriguez plays for them.
Confident lot aren't they.
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Got nothing against Burnley. A decent little club with a very pleasant kit. I hope they have a good day out and get a bit of shopping done at the Bullring.
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SSN man said "a worrying trend for Villa they have lost 3 games after taking the lead this season" ??
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SSN man said "a worrying trend for Villa they have lost 3 games after taking the lead this season" ??
Yes pretty sure it’s twice we’ve done that.
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I like the way we all just assume he isn't from Gallifrey.
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Has there been even the slightest hint that DS will change either the system or the position of Jack or SJM?
No. Didn’t think so.
I hope he doesn't. Not because I don't think we wouldn't be better if he did, but because I'm convinced that he believes it will work, and that if he deviates from his philosophy he'll not be the head coach he believes himself to be. I don't think he wants his wingers with chalk on their boots, and I doubt very much that he wants McGinn and Grealish too far from our centre-forward. But until we "gel", until our fullbacks become more prominent, until we get tighter narrower, we'll be very much a work in progress.
That said, more progression tomorrow. 3-0 us, Mings amongst them.
Head coaches are supposed to have more than one philosophy. The midfield set up clearly is not working from a defensive or attacking perspective. Persisting with it and expecting different results equates to Einstein's definition of insanity.
He simply needs to change or could well find himself out of a job.
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Has there been even the slightest hint that DS will change either the system or the position of Jack or SJM?
No. Didn’t think so.
I hope he doesn't. Not because I don't think we wouldn't be better if he did, but because I'm convinced that he believes it will work, and that if he deviates from his philosophy he'll not be the head coach he believes himself to be. I don't think he wants his wingers with chalk on their boots, and I doubt very much that he wants McGinn and Grealish too far from our centre-forward. But until we "gel", until our fullbacks become more prominent, until we get tighter narrower, we'll be very much a work in progress.
That said, more progression tomorrow. 3-0 us, Mings amongst them.
Head coaches are supposed to have more than one philosophy. The midfield set up clearly is not working from a defensive or attacking perspective. Persisting with it and expecting different results equates to Einstein's definition of insanity.
He simply needs to change or could well find himself out of a job.
Chucking everything in the bin the first time it doesn't work is just as mad.
At the minute I see us as being balanced on the edge. We could go a little bit one way and end up getting smashed every week, or we could go a little bit the other way and find us getting results and staying up. It's a knife edge and tweaking to try and get that positive result is probably the better option than starting again from scratch and hoping it has the same effect.
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Yes, it does feel like today is a big one. Lose and that knife edge gets much sharper.
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Our performances this season show we aren't a million miles away from finishing mid table. Just keep the faith and please Villa just win today.
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Has there been even the slightest hint that DS will change either the system or the position of Jack or SJM?
No. Didn’t think so.
I hope he doesn't. Not because I don't think we wouldn't be better if he did, but because I'm convinced that he believes it will work, and that if he deviates from his philosophy he'll not be the head coach he believes himself to be. I don't think he wants his wingers with chalk on their boots, and I doubt very much that he wants McGinn and Grealish too far from our centre-forward. But until we "gel", until our fullbacks become more prominent, until we get tighter narrower, we'll be very much a work in progress.
That said, more progression tomorrow. 3-0 us, Mings amongst them.
Head coaches are supposed to have more than one philosophy. The midfield set up clearly is not working from a defensive or attacking perspective. Persisting with it and expecting different results equates to Einstein's definition of insanity.
He simply needs to change or could well find himself out of a job.
Chucking everything in the bin the first time it doesn't work is just as mad.
At the minute I see us as being balanced on the edge. We could go a little bit one way and end up getting smashed every week, or we could go a little bit the other way and find us getting results and staying up. It's a knife edge and tweaking to try and get that positive result is probably the better option than starting again from scratch and hoping it has the same effect.
Four points from 6 games suggests it's more than being on a knife edge. Today is huge, need a huge response from management and players to throwing away three points last weekend.
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We almost all (to a man) praised the club for getting its business done early this summer, presumably? because we realised integrating this many players into a new side and a new league would take a bit of time.
That being said a convincing win (or any win actually) today would be a real tonic.
I didn't have quite as much disdain as some for Westwood, but I do hope today he has one of those games where he stands pointing whilst McGinn or Grealish break past him.