Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: SoccerHQ on August 10, 2019, 07:50:28 PM
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Not heard or read Dean's post match reaction but interested in who of the absent players today were injured or just overlooked.
Seems odd after being regulars in pre season neither Guliber or Targett started, Freddie travelled apparently although of course he could've had a knock.
Given we didn't send Davis on loan I find it odd he didn't make bench today ahead of Lansbury. Bit of a baffling one and considering he is decent holding on the ball that was a sub we needed to make for last half hour.
Obviously also need to get the two DMs up to match speed.
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Surprised Lansbury was on the bench ahead of Marvelous.
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I honestly think he preferred the full backs defensive experience must have been a reaction to Norwich.
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Agree about Davis, he was the obvious replacement as Kodija was just awful.
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Guilbert was just not picked according to Smith:
https://audioboom.com/posts/7338793-dean-smith-on-defeat-at-tottenham (https://audioboom.com/posts/7338793-dean-smith-on-defeat-at-tottenham)
Slightly concerning that he thinks not conceding many goals in the Championship run in is in anyway a reasonable basis for picking a team away at Spurs.
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Guilbert was just not picked according to Smith:
https://audioboom.com/posts/7338793-dean-smith-on-defeat-at-tottenham
Very slightly concerning that he thinks not conceding many goals in the Championship run in is in anyway a reasonable basis for picking a team away at Spurs.
Very concerning or slightly concerning? if Guilbert wasn't up to speed and ready what would be the point of throwing him in?
You've heard the cliches hundreds of times of settled teams, partnerships on the pitch, building understanding etc. Perhaps there's something in that, perhaps throwing three new defenders into a game away at Spurs was a recipe for a 5-1 instead of a 3-1.
Given how they defended for 60 minutes I think the decision was vindicated however concerning you think his justification was. That game was lost because of our front six, not our back five.
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Guilbert was just not picked according to Smith:
https://audioboom.com/posts/7338793-dean-smith-on-defeat-at-tottenham
Very slightly concerning that he thinks not conceding many goals in the Championship run in is in anyway a reasonable basis for picking a team away at Spurs.
Very concerning or slightly concerning? if Guilbert wasn't up to speed and ready what would be the point of throwing him in?
You've heard the cliches hundreds of times of settled teams, partnerships on the pitch, building understanding etc. Perhaps there's something in that, perhaps throwing three new defenders into a game away at Spurs was a recipe for a 5-1 instead of a 3-1.
Given how they defended for 60 minutes I think the decision was vindicated however concerning you think his justification was. That game was lost because of our front six, not our back five.
No but Taylor and Elmo are not good going forward they offer nothing in attacking or overlapping or
even passing out of defence so using other defenders who might be better in those areas could have given us more bite going forward
it's all right defending but retaining the ball as a team to take a bit of pressure of at times is also important and those pair struggle footballing wise
I just don't rate either as premier league players
if they are still are two first choice full backs in 10 games time or even sooner well have major problems imo
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I don't expect either fullback yesterday to be first choice come the end of the season but my eyebrow wasn't at a Roger Moore angle when they were selected yesterday.
Swings and roundabouts possibly but unless the ball was held up better by our forwards and not given away cheaply by our midfield three yesterday those overlapping runs were not going to happen.
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I don't expect either fullback yesterday to be first choice come the end of the season but my eyebrow wasn't at a Roger Moore angle when they weren't selected yesterday.
Swings and roundabouts possibly but unless the ball was held up better by our forwards and not given away cheaply by our midfield three yesterday those overlapping runs were not going to happen.
to be honest I was gobsmacked it fair took the wind out of my sails
I know they both ‘did a job’ but they are what they are and I thought we were moving on to a better level now
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Neither Taylor or Elmo did badly at all yesterday.
Still think it should only be injury that gets either of them into the team though.
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I think that the fullbacks were picked to contain Spuds, although I also think maybe that Elmo played in support of Trezeguet's debut.
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No but Taylor and Elmo are not good going forward they offer nothing in attacking or overlapping or
even passing out of defence
What a nonsense. especially regarding Elmo. He gets forward and creates very well for a bloke of his age. You forgot last season already?
As for Taylor, i'm 100% sure he played yesterday because of his defensive discipline and he played very well IMHO
If we'd started with Targett and Gibert yesterday and they'd defended like they did against Leipzig we'd have been murdered. You can't have bombing on full backs against a team like Tottenham.
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I think that the fullbacks were picked to contain Spuds, although I also think maybe that Elmo played in support of Trezeguet's debut.
Agree
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I think that the fullbacks were picked to contain Spuds, although I also think maybe that Elmo played in support of Trezeguet's debut.
I’m sure that’s exactly what it was. It was obvious that Spurs at home would push as back for long periods and it so we needed to retain our defensive shape. With fullbacks getting picked off further up the pitch I doubt we would have stayed in the game for so long.
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Yesterday we needed fullbacks that are good at defending and that have positional awareness.
If either Mings or Engels had a bad game yesterday, we could’ve had ten put past us.
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Yesterday we needed fullbacks that are good at defending and that have positional awareness.
If either Mings or Engels had a bad game yesterday, we could’ve had ten put past us.
Yes I suspect Dean thinks Freddie is for VP games
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Slightly concerning that he thinks not conceding many goals in the Championship run in is in anyway a reasonable basis for picking a team away at Spurs.
If that logic is to stand up to scrutiny then Steer should also have started over Heaton.
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Guilbert was just not picked according to Smith:
https://audioboom.com/posts/7338793-dean-smith-on-defeat-at-tottenham
Very slightly concerning that he thinks not conceding many goals in the Championship run in is in anyway a reasonable basis for picking a team away at Spurs.
Very concerning or slightly concerning? if Guilbert wasn't up to speed and ready what would be the point of throwing him in?
You've heard the cliches hundreds of times of settled teams, partnerships on the pitch, building understanding etc. Perhaps there's something in that, perhaps throwing three new defenders into a game away at Spurs was a recipe for a 5-1 instead of a 3-1.
Given how they defended for 60 minutes I think the decision was vindicated however concerning you think his justification was. That game was lost because of our front six, not our back five.
No but Taylor and Elmo are not good going forward they offer nothing in attacking or overlapping or
even passing out of defence so using other defenders who might be better in those areas could have given us more bite going forward
it's all right defending but retaining the ball as a team to take a bit of pressure of at times is also important and those pair struggle footballing wise
I just don't rate either as premier league players
if they are still are two first choice full backs in 10 games time or even sooner well have major problems imo
I'm not Elmo's biggest fan, but tbh he is better going forward than he is defending. I don't get how you could say he offers nothing going forward. Let's take our previous competitive match, didn't he put the ball in for the opening goal?
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Elmo is a solid championship full back, Taylor isn't even that let's be honest. I'm all for new players having to earn the jersey but this selection decision reeked of conservatism in a Steve Bruce type of way. Same on the bench with Lansbury and Kodjia ahead of Marvellous and Davis.
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I was surprised Gilbert and Targett weren't starting after pre-season. Having thought about it I felt that Smith might have looked at it and wanted to present a more settled, less-changed side for the opener, and not immediately replacing two of those he retained and making them feel dumped when we were facing a team we were expected to lose to anyway.
Had they played out their skins then fantastic, if they didn't then they can't argue about being replaced for the much more winnable game against Bournemouth. Also, had we made the two extra changes and lost then it could have been all in the media about how our team hasn't gelled and we are going to be this season's Fulham.
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Elmo is a solid championship full back, Taylor isn't even that let's be honest. I'm all for new players having to earn the jersey but this selection decision reeked of conservatism in a Steve Bruce type of way. Same on the bench with Lansbury and Kodjia ahead of Marvellous and Davis.
Nobody has seen Marvelous yet and we know he went on strike and didn't have a pre-season, let's leave it to the coaching staff to judge how ready he is to be chucked in.
Regarding Davis, he's a similar player to Wesley, big and strong and hold-it-up. If that approach was working, then he wouldn't take Wesley off for Davis, and if it wasn't working he'd want a different type of player in Kodjia in order to try something else.
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No but Taylor and Elmo are not good going forward they offer nothing in attacking or overlapping or
even passing out of defence
What a nonsense. especially regarding Elmo. He gets forward and creates very well for a bloke of his age. You forgot last season already?
As for Taylor, i'm 100% sure he played yesterday because of his defensive discipline and he played very well IMHO
If we'd started with Targett and Gibert yesterday and they'd defended like they did against Leipzig we'd have been murdered. You can't have bombing on full backs against a team like Tottenham.
Your quite entitled to your opinion on them I just disagree
you think they are good enough for this league and I don’t that’s it in a nutshell really
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Taylor did well yesterday but Targett will be in soon enough I’m sure.
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Taylor did well yesterday but Targett will be in soon enough I’m sure.
hope not according to Baltimore if we play Target we Gona get murdered
don’t know why we bought him, maybe back up player
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I hope Targett doesn't play for a while as it will mean Taylor has continued to play well, as he did yesterday.
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I hope Targett doesn't play for a while as it will mean Taylor has continued to play well, as he did yesterday.
I’m not saying he doesn’t have games where he ‘does a job’ or ‘doesn’t let the side down’
Never the less my heart sinks every time he’s named in the starting line up
can’t help it, he’s not good enough for us in the premier league imo
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Same with Elmo and Hourahane I hope they are all replaced in the starting line up by Christmas
they are not the level we need for this league even though they are all capable of a decent performance at times
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Surprised that Taylor was picked but not shocked. More surprised Jota didn't start.
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Same with Elmo and Hourahane I hope they are all replaced in the starting line up by Christmas
I think you'll get your wish. I just wont be surprised if the new players are phased in gradually. Results will of course play a large part in how quickly that happens.
With Hourihane do you think he isn't good enough for that defensive midfield position or just not good enough full stop?
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Elmo is a solid championship full back, Taylor isn't even that let's be honest. I'm all for new players having to earn the jersey but this selection decision reeked of conservatism in a Steve Bruce type of way. Same on the bench with Lansbury and Kodjia ahead of Marvellous and Davis.
Nobody has seen Marvelous yet and we know he went on strike and didn't have a pre-season, let's leave it to the coaching staff to judge how ready he is to be chucked in.
Regarding Davis, he's a similar player to Wesley, big and strong and hold-it-up. If that approach was working, then he wouldn't take Wesley off for Davis, and if it wasn't working he'd want a different type of player in Kodjia in order to try something else.
The problem was that we did not hold the ball up front, the situation got even worse when Kodija came on. As it is Davis strongest attribute, we would have been much better off with him coming on. Unfortunately he wasn’t even on the bench.
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Same with Elmo and Hourahane I hope they are all replaced in the starting line up by Christmas
I think you'll get your wish. I just wont be surprised if the new players are phased in gradually. Results will of course play a large part in how quickly that happens.
With Hourihane do you think he isn't good enough for that defensive midfield position or just not good enough full stop?
i daren't say
iv'e just seen him track down some bloke on twitter who posted something negative about him 5 years ago so i'm a bit scared of him now
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Elmo is a solid championship full back, Taylor isn't even that let's be honest. I'm all for new players having to earn the jersey but this selection decision reeked of conservatism in a Steve Bruce type of way. Same on the bench with Lansbury and Kodjia ahead of Marvellous and Davis.
Nobody has seen Marvelous yet and we know he went on strike and didn't have a pre-season, let's leave it to the coaching staff to judge how ready he is to be chucked in.
Regarding Davis, he's a similar player to Wesley, big and strong and hold-it-up. If that approach was working, then he wouldn't take Wesley off for Davis, and if it wasn't working he'd want a different type of player in Kodjia in order to try something else.
The problem was that we did not hold the ball up front, the situation got even worse when Kodija came on. As it is Davis strongest attribute, we would have been much better off with him coming on. Unfortunately he wasn’t even on the bench.
Why? Wesley was trying to hold the ball up, the problem was we were sitting so deep he was doing it right off our own box, so it wasn't effective. Davis would have been similar.
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I was very surprised Taylor was picked but less so Elmo, particularly given the added bonus of his relationship with Trezuget.
But to be fair I thought they both did ok, Taylor in particular made a lot of telling challenges. I would have liked to see them both get forward more but Spurs pushed us back relentlessly and I suspect they were asked to play fairly conservatively by the coaching ream.
I also think Smith may well have been reacting sub-conciously to the media and the 'Fulham' thing. It felt a bit like a statement to me - 'look there's 7 players who stareted the play oiff final' Maybe bollocks, but it crossed my mind.
Either way, I hope to see Guilbert and Targett playing sooner rathe rthan later.
I think in the context of the game where we were defending our position, it would have been much better to bring on Davis. But I can understand why Kodjia was on the bench - if you need someone to change a gamne or pull a rabit out the hat (which was a far more likley scenerio than defending a lead at Tottenham) he would have been much more likley to do so.
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Elmo is a solid championship full back, Taylor isn't even that let's be honest. I'm all for new players having to earn the jersey but this selection decision reeked of conservatism in a Steve Bruce type of way. Same on the bench with Lansbury and Kodjia ahead of Marvellous and Davis.
Nobody has seen Marvelous yet and we know he went on strike and didn't have a pre-season, let's leave it to the coaching staff to judge how ready he is to be chucked in.
Regarding Davis, he's a similar player to Wesley, big and strong and hold-it-up. If that approach was working, then he wouldn't take Wesley off for Davis, and if it wasn't working he'd want a different type of player in Kodjia in order to try something else.
except Davis is stronger and better at it.
The problem was that we did not hold the ball up front, the situation got even worse when Kodija came on. As it is Davis strongest attribute, we would have been much better off with him coming on. Unfortunately he wasn’t even on the bench.
Why? Wesley was trying to hold the ball up, the problem was we were sitting so deep he was doing it right off our own box, so it wasn't effective. Davis would have been similar.
And we got worse when we had no one even trying to hold it up when he went off which just caused even more pressure.
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I’d have taken Hourihane and Elmo off at halftime. We’d survived heavy pressure but it was going to get worse.
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Elmo is a solid championship full back, Taylor isn't even that let's be honest. I'm all for new players having to earn the jersey but this selection decision reeked of conservatism in a Steve Bruce type of way. Same on the bench with Lansbury and Kodjia ahead of Marvellous and Davis.
Nobody has seen Marvelous yet and we know he went on strike and didn't have a pre-season, let's leave it to the coaching staff to judge how ready he is to be chucked in.
Regarding Davis, he's a similar player to Wesley, big and strong and hold-it-up. If that approach was working, then he wouldn't take Wesley off for Davis, and if it wasn't working he'd want a different type of player in Kodjia in order to try something else.
except Davis is stronger and better at it.
The problem was that we did not hold the ball up front, the situation got even worse when Kodija came on. As it is Davis strongest attribute, we would have been much better off with him coming on. Unfortunately he wasn’t even on the bench.
Why? Wesley was trying to hold the ball up, the problem was we were sitting so deep he was doing it right off our own box, so it wasn't effective. Davis would have been similar.
And we got worse when we had no one even trying to hold it up when he went off which just caused even more pressure.
So, maybe the answer was to not take him off? He was already doing the job! Smith took a gamble that a bit more pace might allow us to catch them on the break and give them something to think about before committing forward. It didn't work, but can see why he tried it.
When something isn't working, changing the person doing it rather than what you're doing is unlikely to make a difference I'm afraid.
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Yesterday we needed fullbacks that are good at defending and that have positional awareness.
If either Mings or Engels had a bad game yesterday, we could’ve had ten put past us.
Yes I suspect Dean thinks Freddie is for VP games
Matt Targett will start v Bournemouth I reckon. Not sure on Gulibert as Trez was quite good on Saturday and it will obviously help him having a teammate he knows very well playing right behind him.
Maybe option if we're winning is to bring on Freddie and move AEM to right midfield for last 20 minutes
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Same with Elmo and Hourahane I hope they are all replaced in the starting line up by Christmas
I think you'll get your wish. I just wont be surprised if the new players are phased in gradually. Results will of course play a large part in how quickly that happens.
With Hourihane do you think he isn't good enough for that defensive midfield position or just not good enough full stop?
i daren't say
iv'e just seen him track down some bloke on twitter who posted something negative about him 5 years ago so i'm a bit scared of him now
My daughter showed that to me yesterday, and as it said: the man must have an elephantine memory to remember it from five years ago. Whatever people may think of Hourihane as a footballer his inner strength of character is, to me, unquestionable and very much instrumental to where he finds himself today.
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Elmo is a solid championship full back, Taylor isn't even that let's be honest. I'm all for new players having to earn the jersey but this selection decision reeked of conservatism in a Steve Bruce type of way. Same on the bench with Lansbury and Kodjia ahead of Marvellous and Davis.
Nobody has seen Marvelous yet and we know he went on strike and didn't have a pre-season, let's leave it to the coaching staff to judge how ready he is to be chucked in.
Regarding Davis, he's a similar player to Wesley, big and strong and hold-it-up. If that approach was working, then he wouldn't take Wesley off for Davis, and if it wasn't working he'd want a different type of player in Kodjia in order to try something else.
except Davis is stronger and better at it.
The problem was that we did not hold the ball up front, the situation got even worse when Kodija came on. As it is Davis strongest attribute, we would have been much better off with him coming on. Unfortunately he wasn’t even on the bench.
Why? Wesley was trying to hold the ball up, the problem was we were sitting so deep he was doing it right off our own box, so it wasn't effective. Davis would have been similar.
And we got worse when we had no one even trying to hold it up when he went off which just caused even more pressure.
So, maybe the answer was to not take him off? He was already doing the job! Smith took a gamble that a bit more pace might allow us to catch them on the break and give them something to think about before committing forward. It didn't work, but can see why he tried it.
When something isn't working, changing the person doing it rather than what you're doing is unlikely to make a difference I'm afraid.
Unless the person does it better of course.
I give up.
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However good or bad Wes was going to be, it was obvious he found the pace of the game a massive step up to what he played in Belgium.
Was never going to last 90 minutes so would've thought bringing on Davis would've been obvious thought in pre match debate between DS and coaching staff.
Seems odd to exlude him when you have 6 outfield sub options and many teams name 3 strikers on the bench nowadays.
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Smith probably thought Kodija offered something different to Wesley, a plan B if you like. However, with hindsight, I think Davis would have been a better option because Wesley wasn't holding the ball up all that well and that is one of Davis's particular strengths, so he may have been a lot more effective at it.
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Smith probably thought Kodija offered something different to Wesley, a plan B if you like. However, with hindsight, I think Davis would have been a better option because Wesley wasn't holding the ball up all that well and that is one of Davis's particular strengths, so he may have been a lot more effective at it.
Given the pressure we were under I'd perhaps have replaced Wes with anoth midfielder - it would have made us a little more robust and psossibly helped us on the break.
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Lansbury?
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Smith probably thought Kodija offered something different to Wesley, a plan B if you like. However, with hindsight, I think Davis would have been a better option because Wesley wasn't holding the ball up all that well and that is one of Davis's particular strengths, so he may have been a lot more effective at it.
exactly.
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We were under the cosh, and throwing on Jota and Kodjia almost made it like playing with nine men, so little did the pair of them offer. Still, easy to say in hindsight, and I don't think we'll play many teams as dominant as that at home, other than Liverpool and Man City. I really do hope Luiz and Marvelous come to the fore soon, because we really do lack physicality everywhere except in defence.
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Yesterday we needed fullbacks that are good at defending and that have positional awareness.
If either Mings or Engels had a bad game yesterday, we could’ve had ten put past us.
Yes I suspect Dean thinks Freddie is for VP games
Matt Targett will start v Bournemouth I reckon. Not sure on Gulibert as Trez was quite good on Saturday and it will obviously help him having a teammate he knows very well playing right behind him.
Maybe option if we're winning is to bring on Freddie and move AEM to right midfield for last 20 minutes
he’l pick exactly the same line up i reckon
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I don't see any reason why Targett would start ahead of Taylor when Taylor was one of our better players on Saturday. Only change I think we will see is Dougtanian in for Hot Lips. Even then, I wouldn't be amazed if all eleven are the same as against Tottenham.
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Targett would offer a lot more going forward. Horses for courses and all that. I do think it'd be very harsh on Guilbert to be left out again considering how much he impressed me in pre-season.
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Apparently Targett is much better going forward so that's why I'd start him. In home games against winnable opposition we do need better than Taylor just checking and passing backwards or sideways whenever he sees the penalty area.
Would be fine with AEM, he can get forward and cross as he showed on the play off final of course.
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I don't see any reason why Targett would start ahead of Taylor when Taylor was one of our better players on Saturday. Only change I think we will see is Dougtanian in for Hot Lips. Even then, I wouldn't be amazed if all eleven are the same as against Tottenham.
you see this thinking is the problem i have,
Elphick, Hutton, Albert, Whelan if we had kept them and played any of them on Saturday they might well have had a good game
they were all capable of putting in a decent performance from time to time
people like you would be saying yes they had a good game keep them in
but they are championship standard players now,
when are we going to realise that you not going to move forward by keep playing Elmo and Taylor who in the bigger wider picture of where we are hopefully trying to go are not anywhere near good enough to hold down first team positions
we don't know if Target and Guilbert are Premier league quality although Target had obviously played there before
but do know that the likes of Taylor isn't, add to that Elmo and Connor
good back up maybe when needed
it might sound harsh but we are premier league now,
if we keep playing championship standard players when we hopefully have proper upgrades not even making the bench we will find ourselves in trouble and only have ourselves to blame
Smith needs to be braver sometimes, he's spent 133 million to compete in this league lets start using them
i think he will go with the same team on against Bournmouth which might be good enough to win but we need to bed players down before Everton or we will be falling behind
i was frustrated and deflated with his line up against spuds, i knew exactly how it would go when i saw it,
all the hope for a good start evapourated,
maybe we would have still lost no matter who we played but come on i thought this bloke gave it a go wherever he went
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I don't see any reason why Targett would start ahead of Taylor when Taylor was one of our better players on Saturday. Only change I think we will see is Dougtanian in for Hot Lips. Even then, I wouldn't be amazed if all eleven are the same as against Tottenham.
we don't know if Target and Guilbert are Premier league quality although Target had obviously played there before
but do know that the likes of Taylor isn't, add to that Elmo and Connor
good back up maybe when needed
Woah! you're brave watch out he'll hunt you down on twitter ;D