Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Legion on August 01, 2019, 06:21:47 PM
-
For 2019-20 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48965849)
-
Crikey I've gone decades believing that whichever team won the toss had the choice of kicking-off or picking ends already, and now they do!
-
Mixed bag. Some sensible changes but the new handball rule will cause chaos. There is no way it will be applied consistently. What counts as a penalty when it's a Villa defender will be a world different from what counts as a penalty when it's a Man U defender at Old Trafford.
Not keen on the uncontested drop ball being given to the goalkeeper when the attacking team had reached the penalty area. Why not just give it to the attacking team on the edge of the box? Hopefully referees will have the common sense to wait till the ball has gone out of play if someone has reached the area, wherever possible.
-
Crikey I've gone decades believing that whichever team won the toss had the choice of kicking-off or picking ends already, and now they do!
I thought that, too.
-
I have always believed the toss was to choose ends nothing more. The toss losers get to kick off.
-
No. Always the choice of ends for the winners of the toss and the losers get to kick-off. Funny isn't it the little bits and pieces that go unnoticed?
I don't know if it's been changed but, clubs' were also obliged to supply linesmans' flags. We all had our own so it never in my experience raised its head. I do recall going into a club's officials dressing room and seeing flags in there but it's the only one time.
-
Does anyone still have the halfway line flags? I don't think I've ever seen them at a game but I'm sure they used to exist.
-
Does anyone still have the halfway line flags? I don't think I've ever seen them at a game but I'm sure they used to exist.
They did, would you believe they used to have them at the Sty, I remember seeing them there.
-
They probably had "more flags than the Villa" listed in their honours.
-
VAR 😞
-
Mixed bag. Some sensible changes but the new handball rule will cause chaos. There is no way it will be applied consistently. What counts as a penalty when it's a Villa defender will be a world different from what counts as a penalty when it's a Man U defender at Old Trafford.
Yep. Things that will apply at knackered old trafford in their favour but not anywhere else:
- the arm or hand is close to their body and "has not made their body unnaturally bigger"
- a player is falling and the ball touches their hand or arm when it is between their body and the ground to support the body - but not extended to make the body bigger
-
All down to interpretation.
-
All down to interpretation.
Ever thus, but now, VAR...
-
Sterilising the sport.
-
“The rules, the rules, do not apply”
-
For 2019-20 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48965849)
It all seems relatively simple and sensible.
I look forward to seeing the first sending off of a player who has taken his shirt off to celebrate a goal which has been disallowed.
I was also hoping that promotion and relegation had been scrapped now Villa were back where they belong.
-
They should have changed the subs quantity too. As many as you like. What's the point of having to pick a squad of 25 if you can't use them?
-
"The other change to penalties means an attacker can take a penalty if he needed treatment (as long as the treatment is quick)."
Why didn't Barry take the penalty?
-
This one seems a bit daft:
Also if the offence was going to be a red card for denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity, but the opposition take a quick free-kick, then the player will only be booked because the other team are considered to have restarted their attack.
Surely if an offence was deemed to be a red card then it still should be a red card.
-
All good for me bar a couple of niggles.
Firstly, the goal kick has already been exploited by a player flicking the ball up for the keeper to catch and then kick out of his arms. This needs to be stopped. Secondly, there will be occasions where a genuine drop ball would need to be contested. There should be an allowance for this.
The one rule/agreement I'd like to see is for all teams to accept that it's the ref's decision to stop play when a player is down. It's coming far too frequent for teams to kick the ball out when a player has the slightest knock. A lot of the times this is a ploy because they are boxed in and having the ball thrown back so they can start again is a better option. Obviously it is also a tactic for teams looking to time waste as well.
-
Mixed bag. Some sensible changes but the new handball rule will cause chaos. There is no way it will be applied consistently. What counts as a penalty when it's a Villa defender will be a world different from what counts as a penalty when it's a Man U defender at Old Trafford.
Not keen on the uncontested drop ball being given to the goalkeeper when the attacking team had reached the penalty area. Why not just give it to the attacking team on the edge of the box? Hopefully referees will have the common sense to wait till the ball has gone out of play if someone has reached the area, wherever possible.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/49057675
Look at the last paragraph of the above link. Why is it different for Man Utd and Liverpool??? Are they trying to gain an advantage already. Crafty feckers. They should be forced to install a large screen in their stadium so that all supporters can get a viewing of a VAR decision that overturns the referees original decision.
-
The most stupid one for me, and the one I think will need to be re-thought out soonest, is the penalty rule for the goalkeeper having to keep one foot on the line and not be in front of it when the penalty is taken. Not a problem on its own, but when combined with VAR to make absolutely sure it will make it incredibly hard to defend a penalty.
If you think about it, when a goalkeeper is watching the player run up they will judge when he is about to strike the ball and move to save it. The brain does this automatically based on the movement of the player's foot in relation to the ball ( same way it automatically calculates how a ball will bounce before it hits the ground ). If the goalkeeper is a split second out and moves and the opposition doesn't score, VAR will kick in and it will be re-taken. If the goalkeeper waits until the ball has definitely been kicked then it will almost certainly be a goal.
The combination of the new rule with VAR will make it much harder to defend penalties and will see a significant increase in conversion.
-
The most stupid one for me, and the one I think will need to be re-thought out soonest, is the penalty rule for the goalkeeper having to keep one foot on the line and not be in front of it when the penalty is taken. Not a problem on its own, but when combined with VAR to make absolutely sure it will make it incredibly hard to defend a penalty.
If you think about it, when a goalkeeper is watching the player run up they will judge when he is about to strike the ball and move to save it. The brain does this automatically based on the movement of the player's foot in relation to the ball ( same way it automatically calculates how a ball will bounce before it hits the ground ). If the goalkeeper is a split second out and moves and the opposition doesn't score, VAR will kick in and it will be re-taken. If the goalkeeper waits until the ball has definitely been kicked then it will almost certainly be a goal.
The combination of the new rule with VAR will make it much harder to defend penalties and will see a significant increase in conversion.
So? It's a penalty, it's meant to be hard to defend! 12 yards out, 1 person to beat, nearly 200ft² of goal to aim for. There's no excuse for missing. Only one in about six doesn't get scored. It's not that long ago that keepers weren't allowed to move at all, they should count their blessings.
-
I agree. A penalty is awarded for foul play. It should be in favour of the team it's awarded to. It's certainly not supposed to result in a 50/50, 60/40 situation.
-
The most stupid one for me, and the one I think will need to be re-thought out soonest, is the penalty rule for the goalkeeper having to keep one foot on the line and not be in front of it when the penalty is taken. Not a problem on its own, but when combined with VAR to make absolutely sure it will make it incredibly hard to defend a penalty.
If you think about it, when a goalkeeper is watching the player run up they will judge when he is about to strike the ball and move to save it. The brain does this automatically based on the movement of the player's foot in relation to the ball ( same way it automatically calculates how a ball will bounce before it hits the ground ). If the goalkeeper is a split second out and moves and the opposition doesn't score, VAR will kick in and it will be re-taken. If the goalkeeper waits until the ball has definitely been kicked then it will almost certainly be a goal.
The combination of the new rule with VAR will make it much harder to defend penalties and will see a significant increase in conversion.
So? It's a penalty, it's meant to be hard to defend! 12 yards out, 1 person to beat, nearly 200ft² of goal to aim for. There's no excuse for missing. Only one in about six doesn't get scored. It's not that long ago that keepers weren't allowed to move at all, they should count their blessings.
But it already is in the attacking teams favour, because last season approximately 81% of all penalties awarded were scored. This will increase that rate even further.
What you are saying is that if a defending team fouls a player on the very edge of the box furthest away from the goal, then they have denied the attacking team an 80% chance of scoring?
I don't know what teams you watch, but I really do hope every time Villa get the ball in the opposition box we have an 80% chance of getting a goal. ;D
-
I agree. A penalty is awarded for foul play. It should be in favour of the team it's awarded to. It's certainly not supposed to result in a 50/50, 60/40 situation.
Sorry, I don't agree. I think there are instances where a foul has prevented a certain goal ( such as hand ball of the line ), but I do not believe the majority of fouls in the box prevented an 81% scoring chance for the attacker.
-
By that extension they should scrap direct free kicks, because their award virtually never comes from the involvement of a clear goal scoring opportunity.
I'm strongly against the inclusion of VAR, but if we've got to suffer it, I don't see why cheating goalkeepers should evade its intrusion.
-
Lol it’s not cheating, it’s impossible for the goalkeeper to be able to predict exactly when the ball will be played and move at the same time. They can have every intention of not moving till the moment it is played and still not be accurate enough for VAR.
Same as it’s impossible for the linesman to be looking at both the defensive line’s position versus the attackers and the exact moment a ball is played to judge off-side ( except on the odd occasion where everything lines up in a small enough area in his line of site ).
-
But they can move. They can move sideways all they like, and only need the merest of contact with only one foot with the line for it to be legit. What more do they want, charge it down when the ref blows?
-
But they can move. They can move sideways all they like, and only need the merest of contact with only one foot with the line for it to be legit. What more do they want, charge it down when the ref blows?
Yes, that is exactly the case I have been arguing! ::)
-
Re your second paragraph. Yes, it is nigh on impossible to watch both the defensive line and the oncoming wide player especially as the linesman in all probability will be running backwards, a point that shouldn't go unnoticed that running backwards isn't natural; if it was we would have reversable feet.
My point is, that football is not solely officiated with the eyes but with the ears also. By which I mean that as a linesman in the scenario described you size up the situation and concentrate on the likely outcome: is the ball about to be crossed? or is the wide player about to be tackled? In the first instance just concentrate on the cross going in and look for a possible offside, listen for the sound of the foot making contact with the ball and base any offside decision on that.
In the second instance just watch for any foul tackle that may occur. I'll just add that before anyone offers the speed of sound as a difference of opinion, football is not an exact science and once we get into the realms of the minutiae of it, then it's time to consign it's sorry arse to the bin. Just my opinion of course.
-
Re your second paragraph. Yes, it is nigh on impossible to watch both the defensive line and the oncoming wide player especially as the linesman in all probability will be running backwards, a point that shouldn't go unnoticed that running backwards isn't natural; if it was we would have reversable feet.
My point is, that football is not solely officiated with the eyes but with the ears also. By which I mean that as a linesman in the scenario described you size up the situation and concentrate on the likely outcome: is the ball about to be crossed? or is the wide player about to be tackled? In the first instance just concentrate on the cross going in and look for a possible offside, listen for the sound of the foot making contact with the ball and base any offside decision on that.
In the second instance just watch for any foul tackle that may occur. I'll just add that before anyone offers the speed of sound as a difference of opinion, football is not an exact science and once we get into the realms of the minutiae of it, then it's time to consign it's sorry arse to the bin. Just my opinion of course.
Exactly, there is the human element to it and you have to accept there are times when even doing the best they can, humans don't get it exactly right all the time. So it's harsh to punish a goalkeeper and their team for not being able to do something to the accuracy that VAR can now detect and use against them, just as it's harsh to blame a linesman for not being able to detect offside to the accuracy that VAR and tv replays can.
-
That's a very heated discussion for something they've already said VAR won't be used for...
-
That's a very heated discussion for something they've already said VAR won't be used for...
Not a heated discussion at all, I was just explaining just how you operate as a linesman if you want to be a success at it and do your very best to minimise mistakes. Having been there and done it I know just how difficult it can be.
-
All good for me bar a couple of niggles.
Firstly, the goal kick has already been exploited by a player flicking the ball up for the keeper to catch and then kick out of his arms. This needs to be stopped. Secondly, there will be occasions where a genuine drop ball would need to be contested. There should be an allowance for this.
The one rule/agreement I'd like to see is for all teams to accept that it's the ref's decision to stop play when a player is down. It's coming far too frequent for teams to kick the ball out when a player has the slightest knock. A lot of the times this is a ploy because they are boxed in and having the ball thrown back so they can start again is a better option. Obviously it is also a tactic for teams looking to time waste as well.
Isn't that the backpass law rather than the goalkick? I thought there'd been contingency written into that since its inception that outlawed contrived "legal" backpasses, e.g. flicking it up for yourself to head or chest it back, or lying on the floor to head it.
Just checked before posting, it's a bookable offence
uses a deliberate trick to pass the ball (including from a free kick) to the goalkeeper with the head, chest, knee etc. to circumvent the Law, whether or not the goalkeeper touches the ball with the hands