Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Toronto Villa on December 29, 2018, 04:59:45 PM
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We didn’t deserve to win that at all. Way too sloppy throughout the game. Very disjointed and careless. Arguably the worst performance under Dean Smith. He desperately needs help in getting some players in.
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We are not quite right ........just yet. With this defence 1-1 away is ok.
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Aaaaaaarrrggh and fucking Norwich. This seasons Fulham. Bastards.
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Players looked knackered. Can't think why.
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1 defeat in 10 but also only 2 wins in 7. Play-offs at best now.
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Long way to got yet people. We are in touch with top 6.
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surprised be didn't rotate the wingers today with 3 games in 6 days and 2 more next week.
very Bruce esque
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Bolasie and El ghazi showed nothing today, Abraham was MOM at both ends, Nyland is either great or a mistake waiting to happen, McGinn looked knackered, Bree was ok
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Pretty much every game we look capable of rattling in at least 3 or 4, and also look capable of conceding 3 or 4. Frustrating.
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Opportunity lost. Terrible result when others have gone our way.
Too many average at best players in this squad, and we’re very much an average team without Jack.
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Aaaaaaarrrggh and fucking Norwich. This seasons Fulham. Bastards.
Floodlight failure at Norwich, still 10 to go.
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Staggered at some of the comments to be honest. Not the result we wanted but a lot of people throwing in the towel despite there being 21 games of the season to go. Granted 2nd spot seems a way away, but who knows what could happen, and given the start we had, I’d snap you hand off for 6th right now which I think is very achievable.
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Playoffs will be a struggle I think. We're not gaining ground and keep chucking points away.
What has happened to the goals?
What has happened Grealish?
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Derby equalise. 3-3.
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Such a shame our run of form came to an end with Jacks injury. That’s a poor result for a team with our aspirations, particularly on the back Swansea and Leeds.
Notwithstanding the injuries we still have players other clubs can only dream of and should be doing better. Hope we’ve got decent funds for Jan.
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Seemed lucky today. Tho could have snatched it at the end
That midfield three just doesn't work. Especially when they're knackered
Am surprised Smith hasn't picked more adventurous formations at times. Think we're crying out to move to 4231. Maybe he's too worried about the defence
Next game is put elphick at cb and bree at rb. Plus bjarnason, adomah must start surely?
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The concern was how we completely lost shape as the game went on.
We make too many basic errors, Whelan was the only midfielder functioning.
Hourihane anonymous again.
Nylon can make world class saves, has a great throw and then flaps and panics.
Full backs continue to be a major problem.
A slog but I think we can still make the play offs.
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Derby score
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all very Bruce like the last 3 games
no imagination just send the same team out and hope for the best
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Didn't look on it till Whelan was hooked. Too slow and backward.
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Diasppointing considering PNE fans were laughing at their own line up and how poor their bench was.
I've just seen BB's open goal Miss as well.....😫
Must beat QPR now next year.
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all very Bruce like the last 3 games
no imagination just send the same team out and hope for the best
Would be 0 points under Bruce
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We are clearly struggling without Grealish. A win against qpr and we would have had a decent Christmas spell bar the Leeds game where we should have got a draw minimum
We need to find out where Grealish is urgently and when he is back?
Can’t also understand why Kodj seems to be out in the cold all of sudden. Will he start next game otherwise don’t get why he doesn’t come on in the game if players were struggling?
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disappointing as we could have won - as we could have won on several other occasions throughout the season - but to go into the New Year only three points outside the top six given all the shit that has gone on since Wembley isn't too discouraging. a few judicious acquisitions in January and we could make the play offs.
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We are not quite right ........just yet. With this defence 1-1 away is ok.
The lack of creativity up front concerns me more right now. Other than lumping the ball into the box for Tammy, what else do they do? Piss poor.
Overall, we seemed to prefer to move the ball around rather than bring it forward. It was as if Dean Smith told them to save their energy and let the ball do the work, so they all stood around like statues. The other fault in the plan was we can't string a couple of passes together. Piss poor all over the pitch today. Players look knackered, thank god we don't have another game until next year.
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Kodjia should be on. He can win you a game. Strange decision.
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As long as Smith can strengthen the defence and Grealish makes a return sharpish once fit (unless he goes elsewhere in January), play-offs it will be.
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3-4 Derby!!!
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Poor, disjointed performance against an average team who've got so many players out they had to bring a 16 year old Academy kid on near the end. They probably feel they should nave won having hit the woodwork a couple of times, and we actually should have nicked it with the Thor miss. So a point is probably a fair but disappointing result.
Still think we'll make the playoffs as long as Deano sorts the defence out in January. Obviously Jack is a huge miss and nothing creative comes through the middle without him. If he's likely to be out longer term we should look at a replacement - maybe the rumours around Sawyers will come to fruition, but FFP and higher priority positions may rule that out.
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unless he's caught Bruceitis Dean will have to shake things up for QPR
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Not good enough at the moment. The defence is still sloppy, and we’ve become pretty disjointed in attack. Dean, change things up a bit please we’ve essentially played the last 3 games with basically the same line up and we haven’t looked great.
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unless he's caught Bruceitis Dean will have to shake things up for QPR
He has not shown a lot of enthusiasm for doing this.
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will not raise my expectations for the QPR game
Slipped on that banana before
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Just got back to my car.
Disappointing performance. Too lethargic for much of the game. A wasted opportunity as other than the first few minutes, up until they equalised Preston were poor. We still had enough half chances to have won it - which a month ago we probably would have done.
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unless he's caught Bruceitis Dean will have to shake things up for QPR
He has not shown a lot of enthusiasm for doing this.
no, of the many things I like about Smith this is the one thing that disappoints me the most
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3-4 Derby!!!
That was coming for spawny bastards.
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all very Bruce like the last 3 games
no imagination just send the same team out and hope for the best
Rather than Bruceball, that style of play just seems to be what the Villa always end up defaulting to, no matter who the manager is. To paraphrase Nietzsche, "if you gaze long into the Villa, the Villa also gazes into you". Rather than our managers shaping the club's style of play, the club ends up shaping the manager's.
Roll on HS2 and bulldozing Bodymore!
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Match highlights (https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/11594233/preston-1-1-aston-villa)
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Such a shame our run of form came to an end with Jacks injury. That’s a poor result for a team with our aspirations, particularly on the back Swansea and Leeds.
Notwithstanding the injuries we still have players other clubs can only dream of and should be doing better. Hope we’ve got decent funds for Jan.
We also have a lot of players who wouldn’t make the first 11 in the other champs teams
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Playoffs will be a struggle I think. We're not gaining ground and keep chucking points away.
What has happened to the goals?
What has happened Grealish?
Fully agree now 5 pts behind 6th spot---the gap is beginning to grow--we reall need to start turning the draws into wins if we are to make a serious threat to the top 6----when will Grealish be back? he really is sorely missed---some of the players will be on burn out unless a bit of rotation is introduced with the rapid flow of games.
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Match highlights (https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/11594233/preston-1-1-aston-villa)
Wow! BB missing that open goal is a shocker!
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I said on the transfer thread that we should try and sign Jarrod Bowen from Hull. 10 goals now for Hull including 2 today to beat Leeds.
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My point about Bruce was that Dean doesn't rotate enough for me - like Bruce before him and MON way before that
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Should have made subs earlier.
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What a miss. Should have gone with his left
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Poor today again. I felt we made it harder with selection and how slow we move the ball.
Thor isn't as good technically as either Hourihane or Whelan, and he's returning to fitness, but I felt he suits the system and helps transition the ball far quicker into the wide areas. It was only when he came on that El Gahzi got into the game.
McGinn and Thor missed sitters and the referee failed to send Johnson off, who naturally squares for the equaliser.
Positives
Unbeaten despite not playing well.
Negatives
Poor performance.
Whelan is too slow and it's no surprise since he's come into the side we've looked absolutely turgid as he cannot press and cannot move the ball on.
Hourihane in an advanced position is just as much a part of the problem.
Sitters missed, two of them.
The high ball. Preston are as big a bunch of hoof merchants as you'll find, but first half it caught Chester out (for a change) and second half it's all they did.
We didn't rotate. Bolasie and Hutton were very poor. El Ghazi put a beauty of a ball for McGinn but didn't really see more until the last 10 minutes.
That transition wide is too slow. Whelan is the culprit. He must be dropped for Thor.
Too many draws of late, but that's 4 poor performances on the bounce now and Smith has to ackowldge that you cannot play a high line, high press, quick transition game with a dinosaur like Whelan.
A point gained on the top 2, but we've really lost ground on the top 6. Reinforcements needed asap.
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The main mitigation is that so many other leading sides struggled today. I can only assume fatigue
But that does rather suggest we should have freshened it up
Not optimistic about Qpr game. We're just not playing very well at the moment
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Poor today again. I felt we made it harder with selection and how slow we move the ball.
Thor isn't as good technically as either Hourihane or Whelan, and he's returning to fitness, but I felt he suits the system and helps transition the ball far quicker into the wide areas. It was only when he came on that El Gahzi got into the game.
McGinn and Thor missed sitters and the referee failed to send Johnson off, who naturally squares for the equaliser.
Positives
Unbeaten despite not playing well.
Negatives
Poor performance.
Whelan is too slow and it's no surprise since he's come into the wide we've looked absolutely turgid as he cannot press and cannot move the ball on.
Hourihane in an advanced position is just as much a part of the problem.
Sitters missed, two of them.
The high ball. Preston are as big a bunch of good merchants as you'll find, but first half it caught Chester out (for a change) and second half it's all they did.
We didn't rotate. Bolasie and Hutton were very poor. El Ghazi put a beauty of a ball for McGinn but didn't really see more until the last 10 minutes.
That transition wide is too slow. Whelan is the culprit. He must be dropped for Thor.
Too many draws of late, but that's 4 poor performances on the bounce now and Smith has to ackowldge that you cannot play a high line, high press, quick transition game with a dinosaur like Whelan.
A point gained on the top 2, but we've really lost ground on the top 6. Reinforcements needed asap.
Thor not as good technically than Whelan?
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The amount of 0-0s tells you how many knackered players there were.
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Why is anyone surprised? For years this has been Aston Villa. We don’t sack the bloke that failed with the best squad in the league early enough. For the second time in three seasons we waste a quarter of the season as a result. Meaning constant self imposed pressure by not being able to afford an off day like today. Result fcukin no progress for the third season in a row. He’s had ten games and only lost once but we are still five points off 6th. The play offs are not going to be at all easy to get into.
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No he's not. Whelan can find a pass, it's just it takes about 5 minutes for the pass to happen.
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haha fuck off Norwich but it fucked us also as we are 5 points back of the playoffs.
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I’m not confident we’re even going to make the play offs. As usual, our ‘easy run of games’ gets off to a shit start. Smith’s honeymoon period is drawing to a close.
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Winnable games eh?
Don't you just love em?
Plenty of games to go but as mentioned above the gap to 6th has started to open up - disappointing not to be beating teams who are so depleted like Preston today
Play offs?? Gonna be tough
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Well our "easy run" has returned 4 points. So it's not that poor a start.
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No he's not. Whelan can find a pass, it's just it takes about 5 minutes for the pass to happen.
Christ
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5 points is nothing in this division. Especially when you look at the next 6 games. We should be aiming for 14 points. It’ll put us in the top 6 with 45 points to play for. Far from over. We are always one game from disaster on here.
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What is the point you're trying to make?
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First choice defence isn't up to much and our strength in depth all over the park isn't that good either. Which considering the money we've spent is disappointing.
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If Preston was so depleted why did Smith not take the opportunity to freshen it up?
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What a miss. Should have gone with his left
That is one of my pet hates, players not daring to use their weaker foot and thus getting into a wrong body shape to control their connection with the ball. From that distance it was a criminal miss. Bolasie was similarly guilty last week v Leeds.
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3 right backs and a right footed centre half who cannot play on the left. We all.know defensively we're not good enough but I'm loathed to flog any of them too much as it's self evident that they're poor and it's not necessarily their fault. It's Wor Bruce.
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You would think we'd lost the last two from some of the comments here
I agree with Ads analysis above. Whelan deep AND hourihane further fwds is a real double whammy compared to how we were playing
No coincidence our wingers have looked so much more blung. The transition is too laboured
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Yes. The blame lies firmly and squarely with Bruce.
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What a miss. Should have gone with his left
That is one of my pet hates, players not daring to use their weaker foot and thus getting into a wrong body shape to control their connection with the ball. From that distance it was a criminal miss. Bolasie was similarly guilty last week v Leeds.
The only way to get comfortable with the other foot is to keep using it, if only they had time to practice.
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We are going to have to have a monumental last 21 games. Two points a game gets you to 79 points. Is that enough?
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Oh and no one is going to convince me that Whelan is the answer to Jack’s absence.
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No he's not. Whelan can find a pass, it's just it takes about 5 minutes for the pass to happen.
I think Refs should stop play for a little while when grandad has the ball.
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Criminal not to win that given the other results and PNE missing pretty much all their best players.
Boring game when you look at what happened elsewhere.
Need to win our next 3 or whatever but have to be honest results like today and Leeds show we're not good enough for top 2 despite the recent improvement.
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Grandad we love you
Grandad we do
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Oh and no one is going to convince me that Whelan is the answer to Jack’s absence.
OK other than hairstyle I don’t see the difference.
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Oh and no one is going to convince me that Whelan is the answer to Jack’s absence.
Seems to have his fans . Unfortunately.
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Whelan and Hourihane shackle our wide players. With no Grealish to feed to drift between the lines, we suffocate ourselves with our main line of attack.
Quick.transition is key. Whelan, he'll never give you that.
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Things I’ve learnt from the last few games Hutton can’t link properly with bolasie, one game doesn’t make a swallow Nyland, Breen not strong enough and Deano is yet to fully appreciate kodja
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We need fresh blood in the squad. Fuck Whelan off. We really need to win these sorts of games if we want promotion.
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Hes a ‘good lad’ in training though.
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Barney instead of Whelan and we win.
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DS Post-match interview https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1079072569846886400
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"We" decide from day one that players aren't good enough and attack them. Nyland, Birkir, Amavi, veretout etc. They do read social media! They will get hurt, no matter what they earn. We should fucking stop this
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I can see what Whelans does even if it is slow, I have no idea what Hourihane does other than the odd goal.
Playing the 2 of them is the problem.
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Oh and no one is going to convince me that Whelan is the answer to Jack’s absence.
Exactly. Without Grealish we are struggling as even when he is below par he occupies at least two players. Where has the away form from Derby and Middlesbrough's gone to?!
I was right behind the misses by McGinn and Bjarnason and they were sitters, but we didn't deserve any better than a draw.
We are susceptible to diagonal balls and today it was route one that we struggled with.
I don't get Kodjia being left out behind Bolasie and El Ghazi and Nyland made one brilliant save but nearly cost us twice yet again.
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I am a big fan of Thor and think Nyland is a liability.
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Hes a ‘good lad’ in training though.
So is Micah.
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"We" decide from day one that players aren't good enough and attack them. Nyland, Birkir, Amavi, veretout etc. They do read social media! They will get hurt, no matter what they earn. We should fucking stop this
If they spent more time training instead of reading H&V they probably wouldn't be so shit.
:P ;)
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"We" decide from day one that players aren't good enough and attack them. Nyland, Birkir, Amavi, veretout etc. They do read social media! They will get hurt, no matter what they earn. We should fucking stop this
This is professional football and the players mentioned have / are not good enough
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Match highlights (https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/11594233/preston-1-1-aston-villa)
Some miss by BB at the end.
McGinn was abysmal for their goal. Ball watching for a simple give and go pass. He is a liability without the ball too.
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"We" decide from day one that players aren't good enough and attack them. Nyland, Birkir, Amavi, veretout etc. They do read social media! They will get hurt, no matter what they earn. We should fucking stop this
If they spent more time training instead of reading H&V they probably wouldn't be so shit.
:P ;)
This justifies giving them shit
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why the fuck does DS think whelan can play 3 games in a week
freshen it up ffs
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Reading that some of our lot were booing at the end.
I'd like to think that isn't true!
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Match highlights (https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/11594233/preston-1-1-aston-villa)
Some miss by BB at the end.
McGinn was abysmal for their goal. Ball watching for a simple give and go pass. He is a liability without the ball too.
I disagree strongly,I think that he normally is an excellent tackler.If we don't win,we tend to criticise too many of our players.Much was made of Preston's injury problems but we were missing again defenders and midfielders and we have come another point closer to the top 2.
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Reading that some of our lot were booing at the end.
I'd like to think that isn't true!
A few tuts, a few sighs, and a bit of grumbling would have done.It was fairly shit mind.
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The top 2?
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I don’t know if it coincides with Jack being out, but we do seem to have lost our swagger. We do not look like we are going to steamroller teams any more.
To me, we look laboured and tired, and at the back we just look totally disjointed and unorganised, every attack looks like we could concede.
From being vulnerable at centre half, we now look extremely dodgy through both full back positions.
For every good thing Nyland does (and he does many) he also drops too many clangers.
We need freshening up. We need the new goalie to come in and instil some confidence in those in front of him.
Fortunately, we are at the time of the season where we can freshen things up and we are still in touching distance of the playoffs.
It’s going to be a nervy few months.
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Match highlights (https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/11594233/preston-1-1-aston-villa)
Some miss by BB at the end.
McGinn was abysmal for their goal. Ball watching for a simple give and go pass. He is a liability without the ball too.
I disagree strongly,I think that he normally is an excellent tackler.If we don't win,we tend to criticise too many of our players.Much was made of Preston's injury problems but we were missing again defenders and midfielders and we have come another point closer to the top 2.
To the top 2 maybe, but we are now 5 points off the play off's when we were only 3 behind this morning. Another poor goal to give away and we seemed to really struggle with the long ball too. We need, urgently, a centre back and a central midfielder.
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I might be wrong, but I think we've just lost the record for games played in the top flight to Everton, bastard if true. Can PWS confirm?
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Match highlights (https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/11594233/preston-1-1-aston-villa)
Some miss by BB at the end.
McGinn was abysmal for their goal. Ball watching for a simple give and go pass. He is a liability without the ball too.
I disagree strongly,I think that he normally is an excellent tackler.If we don't win,we tend to criticise too many of our players.Much was made of Preston's injury problems but we were missing again defenders and midfielders and we have come another point closer to the top 2.
To the top 2 maybe, but we are now 5 points off the play off's when we were only 3 behind this morning. Another poor goal to give away and we seemed to really struggle with the long ball too. We need, urgently, a centre back and a central midfielder.
What about full backs?
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The negativity on here is awful.
We didn't play at all well today but arguably our best (most creative) player is out injured, we have lost a solid CB, we did not lose, we picked up a point on the top two (who both lost), we have a new quality keeper in the wings, and the transfer window opens next week when finally Dean will get the help he clearly needs. We all knew the squad was not good enough thanks to SB - but if you had offered me 22 points and a new management team, 13 games ago after the original Preston debacle at VP (along with great wins at Derby, Boro, and at home to Small Heath), I would have snapped your hand off. We are 5 points off 6th and 9 off of 3rd and todays results at Leeds, Norwich, Baggies and Millwall just show that everything is still up for grabs.
Compared to 3 months ago, or 6 months ago, we are on the up and in a far better place and one poor result doesn't change that.
In Deano we need to trust. Lets get behind this lot - we can (and will) do it.
VTID
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What a miss. Should have gone with his left
That is one of my pet hates, players not daring to use their weaker foot and thus getting into a wrong body shape to control their connection with the ball. From that distance it was a criminal miss. Bolasie was similarly guilty last week v Leeds.
BB spends more time on his hair than his left foot
Seriously it’s criminal he can’t score from there because he can’t use his ‘wrong’ foot
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The negativity on here is awful.
We didn't play at all well today but arguably our best (most creative) player is out injured, we have lost a solid CB, we did not lose, we picked up a point on the top two (who both lost), we have a new quality keeper in the wings, and the transfer window opens next week when finally Dean will get the help he clearly needs. We all knew the squad was not good enough thanks to SB - but if you had offered me 22 points and a new management team, 13 games ago after the original Preston debacle at VP (along with great wins at Derby, Boro, and at home to Small Heath), I would have snapped your hand off. We are 5 points off 6th and 9 off of 3rd and todays results at Leeds, Norwich, Baggies and Millwall just show that everything is still up for grabs.
Compared to 3 months ago, or 6 months ago, we are on the up and in a far better place and one poor result doesn't change that.
In Deano we need to trust. Lets get behind this lot - we can (and will) do it.
VTID
Yep.
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The negativity on here is awful.
We didn't play at all well today but arguably our best (most creative) player is out injured, we have lost a solid CB, we did not lose, we picked up a point on the top two (who both lost), we have a new quality keeper in the wings, and the transfer window opens next week when finally Dean will get the help he clearly needs. We all knew the squad was not good enough thanks to SB - but if you had offered me 22 points and a new management team, 13 games ago after the original Preston debacle at VP (along with great wins at Derby, Boro, and at home to Small Heath), I would have snapped your hand off. We are 5 points off 6th and 9 off of 3rd and todays results at Leeds, Norwich, Baggies and Millwall just show that everything is still up for grabs.
Compared to 3 months ago, or 6 months ago, we are on the up and in a far better place and one poor result doesn't change that.
In Deano we need to trust. Lets get behind this lot - we can (and will) do it.
VTID
I don’t think anybody isn’t supportive of Dean, but it doesn’t mean you can’t be critical. Fully acknowledge the injury issue and legacy of poor squad building have hindered him, but it doesn’t alter the fact he’s also made some mistakes in the last few games.
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Match highlights (https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/11594233/preston-1-1-aston-villa)
Some miss by BB at the end.
McGinn was abysmal for their goal. Ball watching for a simple give and go pass. He is a liability without the ball too.
I disagree strongly,I think that he normally is an excellent tackler.If we don't win,we tend to criticise too many of our players.Much was made of Preston's injury problems but we were missing again defenders and midfielders and we have come another point closer to the top 2.
To the top 2 maybe, but we are now 5 points off the play off's when we were only 3 behind this morning. Another poor goal to give away and we seemed to really struggle with the long ball too. We need, urgently, a centre back and a central midfielder.
What about full backs?
Obviously, but unlikely to all get done in one window. We can make do with our current full backs, crap though they are if we want promotion. We have sorted the keeper but now need to strengthen the spine of the side.
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DS Post-match interview https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1079072569846886400
A very fair assessment from Deano.
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The negativity on here is awful.
We didn't play at all well today but arguably our best (most creative) player is out injured, we have lost a solid CB, we did not lose, we picked up a point on the top two (who both lost), we have a new quality keeper in the wings, and the transfer window opens next week when finally Dean will get the help he clearly needs. We all knew the squad was not good enough thanks to SB - but if you had offered me 22 points and a new management team, 13 games ago after the original Preston debacle at VP (along with great wins at Derby, Boro, and at home to Small Heath), I would have snapped your hand off. We are 5 points off 6th and 9 off of 3rd and todays results at Leeds, Norwich, Baggies and Millwall just show that everything is still up for grabs.
Compared to 3 months ago, or 6 months ago, we are on the up and in a far better place and one poor result doesn't change that.
In Deano we need to trust. Lets get behind this lot - we can (and will) do it.
VTID
This ^^^^
UTV
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I might be wrong, but I think we've just lost the record for games played in the top flight to Everton, bastard if true. Can PWS confirm?
Pretty sure they've held the record for a long time. I think they've only spent 4 seasons out of the top flight in the history of league football.
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Just got back.
The critical difference in the recent games - and today really typified it - and early DS games is that we are not moving the ball quickly enough - Hourihane, Hutton and Bolasie were criminally slow today to shift the ball. Some of it is lack of movement around them; some of it is because they don't get their head up and see the early pass; some of it is they seem to like having 4-5 touches before considering a pass. There were several occasions today where the early ball to Abraham or McGinn would have created danger for the PNE defence.
We were poor and - as with Brucieball - easy to defend against.
Disappointing.
I'm hoping that we will bring in some new players in January to play a quicker, slicker and more incisive game.
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On the train back from Preston, and we were poor. Passing & movement was painful. Forget the top 2, hope for the playoffs.
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Just watched the highlights. Nyland when he dropped the cross. Wtf was that? Abrahams screwing at El Ghazi for not passing it to him for a great chance. Rightly so. Barneys miss. Absolute shocker. Let's just take a point and move on. And let's not forget that this is still Bruce's imbalanced shitfest of a defense. Deano will get it sorted. I'm convinced of that.
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With regard to the Grealish excuse, of the 21 Championship games he has played, we have failed to win in 13 of them.
The problems run a lot deeper than some would like to acknowledge.
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I don't see how posting honestly about a under par performance that you have just watched
pointing out what you see are the strengths and weakness of the side and how you think we should move forward is always seen as being negative
while I'm on the negative theme,
if there is not one single player in the youth/academy/outer squad who isn't good enough to replace just one of the following Whelan, BB, Hourahane, Taylor, Elmo, Hutton, Hogan,Lansbury Nyland when they play poorly or are tired
we might as well close the entire youth academy down, because although they seem to get good results and we rave about them from time to time, it just isn't working
or Smith isn't brave enough, take your pick
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With regard to the Grealish excuse, of the 21 Championship games he has played, we have failed to win in 13 of them.
The problems run a lot deeper than some would like to acknowledge.
In fairness he hasn't reach the heights he personally did last season (and even then he was only a match winner from January).
However I'm amazed anyone can't see we are so painfully slow at moving the ball to our wide players when he dosen't play and that obviously restricts our ability to murder teams like we did at Derby and Boro when we had excellent wide play which set up the goals.
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With a few additions this league is far from over....4 points from two away games with a patched up squad and injuries isn't exactly a disaster.
The next 5 games are big for us....whilst we play teams outside the top 6/8, many of the others play each other...whilst we have QPR, Wigan, Hull , Ipswich & Reading (3 at home) the others include..
Derby v Boro
Forest v Leeds
Leeds v Derby
Blose v Boro
Baggies v Norwich
Norwich v Blose
Stoke v Leeds
Norwich v Sheff Utd
Blose v Forest
Baggies v Boro
Leeds v Norwich
Plenty of twists yet...keep the faith.. !!
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Happy enough with a point if not the performance. 5 points off the play-offs at the years end is on course considering the mess Smith inherited and his limited options to change things till now. Now lets hope he has some room to manouvre in the transfer market because with the injuries this side has gone about as far as it can atm.
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Match highlights (https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/11594233/preston-1-1-aston-villa)
Some miss by BB at the end.
McGinn was abysmal for their goal. Ball watching for a simple give and go pass. He is a liability without the ball too.
Bizarre statement.Can you give anymore examples apart from the one incident in todays game why Mcginn is a liability without the ball?I'm struggling to think of any.I rather think the opposite, that of our midfielders he is the one that is most effective without the ball.
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Maybe being a booking away from a 2 game ban and us having no fully fit CM to replace him had an effect on him today.
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The negativity on here is awful.
We didn't play at all well today but arguably our best (most creative) player is out injured, we have lost a solid CB, we did not lose, we picked up a point on the top two (who both lost), we have a new quality keeper in the wings, and the transfer window opens next week when finally Dean will get the help he clearly needs. We all knew the squad was not good enough thanks to SB - but if you had offered me 22 points and a new management team, 13 games ago after the original Preston debacle at VP (along with great wins at Derby, Boro, and at home to Small Heath), I would have snapped your hand off. We are 5 points off 6th and 9 off of 3rd and todays results at Leeds, Norwich, Baggies and Millwall just show that everything is still up for grabs.
Compared to 3 months ago, or 6 months ago, we are on the up and in a far better place and one poor result doesn't change that.
In Deano we need to trust. Lets get behind this lot - we can (and will) do it.
VTID
Totally agree
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Maybe being a booking away from a 2 game ban and us having no fully fit CM to replace him had an effect on him today.
Can see him being booked on Tuesday and missing cup game as one of them (unless it just counts for league games?).
In any case he will be missed particularly with Grealish still fair bit off a return.
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Until the January trade is over Smith is operating with the Bruce squad, add to that he is missing his two best form players with little defensive cover. What has been shown I believe in the last few games is the need to get cover for Grealish. The fact that Whelan is getting the amount of game time that he is points to our weakness in midfield. There are a number of players that we need to move on and we have to give Smith time to get it right.
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In think in DS's best run we were largely overcoming the obvious defensive shortcomings/shiteness with some brilliant attacking play. The latter has gone off the boil a bit, for various reasons - Jack's injury, possibly fatigue and possibly playing at a slower tempo, maybe due to Whelan playing. We also have to remember that since the Albion game, we've lost to injury our only "proper" left back, one of only two proper centre backs, Grealish, and, I understand, O'Hare and Lansbury, either of whom might possibly have come in for Jack. Smith really doesn't have much to choose from in either defence or midfield, not to mention the list of comedy keepers Bruce left us a leaving gift. I don't think Jedinak would add much. Maybe Doyle-Hayes could be worth a shout but other than that he's a bit stymied. I think we have to give Smith a chance to bring a few in or back from loan in the window and then I think we'll get back on track. I'm still fairly confident of at least the play-offs.
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The negativity on here is awful.
We didn't play at all well today but arguably our best (most creative) player is out injured, we have lost a solid CB, we did not lose, we picked up a point on the top two (who both lost), we have a new quality keeper in the wings, and the transfer window opens next week when finally Dean will get the help he clearly needs. We all knew the squad was not good enough thanks to SB - but if you had offered me 22 points and a new management team, 13 games ago after the original Preston debacle at VP (along with great wins at Derby, Boro, and at home to Small Heath), I would have snapped your hand off. We are 5 points off 6th and 9 off of 3rd and todays results at Leeds, Norwich, Baggies and Millwall just show that everything is still up for grabs.
Compared to 3 months ago, or 6 months ago, we are on the up and in a far better place and one poor result doesn't change that.
In Deano we need to trust. Lets get behind this lot - we can (and will) do it.
VTID
Exactly
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Match highlights (https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/11594233/preston-1-1-aston-villa)
Some miss by BB at the end.
McGinn was abysmal for their goal. Ball watching for a simple give and go pass. He is a liability without the ball too.
Bizarre statement.Can you give anymore examples apart from the one incident in todays game why Mcginn is a liability without the ball?I'm struggling to think of any.I rather think the opposite, that of our midfielders he is the one that is most effective without the ball.
Joe Allen's goal v Stoke comes to mind in recent weeks
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Match highlights (https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/11594233/preston-1-1-aston-villa)
Some miss by BB at the end.
McGinn was abysmal for their goal. Ball watching for a simple give and go pass. He is a liability without the ball too.
Bizarre statement.Can you give anymore examples apart from the one incident in todays game why Mcginn is a liability without the ball?I'm struggling to think of any.I rather think the opposite, that of our midfielders he is the one that is most effective without the ball.
In fairness to Johnny Mac , Hutton offered the sum total of fuck all in cover
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How did fans of Derby and boro feel after we pumped them at home? Did they give up on the play offs? By comparison this really isn't a crisis
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surprised be didn't rotate the wingers today with 3 games in 6 days and 2 more next week.
very Bruce esque
Surely we need a stronger 11 v qpr than pne, so yes I don’t understand not resting some today
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If Preston was so depleted why did Smith not take the opportunity to freshen it up?
Very disappointing, Adamoah, Kodjia, Bjarnsson all could or should have started if nothing else but to freshen up the team.
2 points dropped but performance levels have dropped a lot since Grealish's injury.
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Why is anyone surprised? For years this has been Aston Villa. We don’t sack the bloke that failed with the best squad in the league early enough. For the second time in three seasons we waste a quarter of the season as a result. Meaning constant self imposed pressure by not being able to afford an off day like today. Result fcukin no progress for the third season in a row. He’s had ten games and only lost once but we are still five points off 6th. The play offs are not going to be at all easy to get into.
....or get out of
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Match highlights (https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/11594233/preston-1-1-aston-villa)
Some miss by BB at the end.
McGinn was abysmal for their goal. Ball watching for a simple give and go pass. He is a liability without the ball too.
Bizarre statement.Can you give anymore examples apart from the one incident in todays game why Mcginn is a liability without the ball?I'm struggling to think of any.I rather think the opposite, that of our midfielders he is the one that is most effective without the ball.
McGinn was being targeted by Preston midfield - ref refused to make their players retreat at our free kicks - and lost his bottle when he should have given Johnson a second yellow.
5 mins later Johnson crosses ball for their goal. It was bound to happen he would do something to change the game.
They kept trying high balls down the centre - which caused a few problems - but I thought Bree did a great job defending them.
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Match highlights (https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/11594233/preston-1-1-aston-villa)
Some miss by BB at the end.
McGinn was abysmal for their goal. Ball watching for a simple give and go pass. He is a liability without the ball too.
Bizarre statement.Can you give anymore examples apart from the one incident in todays game why Mcginn is a liability without the ball?I'm struggling to think of any.I rather think the opposite, that of our midfielders he is the one that is most effective without the ball.
Joe Allen's goal v Stoke comes to mind in recent weeks
I blame our defence for their inability to clear their lines for that goal rather than McGinn maybe he can be criticized for getting wrong side of Allen, but at this level Allen is a very good player.Agree to disagree over Mcginn he is excellent with and without the ball.
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How did fans of Derby and boro feel after we pumped them at home? Did they give up on the play offs? By comparison this really isn't a crisis
The huge difference there is of course that they were in the play off positions, and still are. We're not, and after the recent less than stellar results, they're getting further away.
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How did fans of Derby and boro feel after we pumped them at home? Did they give up on the play offs? By comparison this really isn't a crisis
The huge difference there is of course that they were in the play off positions, and still are. We're not, and after the recent less than stellar results, they're getting further away.
2 bad results till a Risso 'Smith Out' thread I reckon ;)
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The negativity on here is awful.
We didn't play at all well today but arguably our best (most creative) player is out injured, we have lost a solid CB, we did not lose, we picked up a point on the top two (who both lost), we have a new quality keeper in the wings, and the transfer window opens next week when finally Dean will get the help he clearly needs. We all knew the squad was not good enough thanks to SB - but if you had offered me 22 points and a new management team, 13 games ago after the original Preston debacle at VP (along with great wins at Derby, Boro, and at home to Small Heath), I would have snapped your hand off. We are 5 points off 6th and 9 off of 3rd and todays results at Leeds, Norwich, Baggies and Millwall just show that everything is still up for grabs.
Compared to 3 months ago, or 6 months ago, we are on the up and in a far better place and one poor result doesn't change that.
In Deano we need to trust. Lets get behind this lot - we can (and will) do it.
VTID
Yep.
Ditto
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I don't think the top six will remain the top six. But that doesn't mean we will be part of it. A lot depends on who will bring in next month.
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There is quite a large gap between us and the top 3,I think the Baggies will finish above Norwich but it can be bridged.
There are several reasons to be optimistic.One is our fixture list,apart from Leeds,we have played all the top 6 away and they have to come to VP.Second is that we have important players to comeback from injury and reinforcements to come in.I think that the best is yet to come from our team.
Finally,there will be points dropped by the top 6 when they play us , one another or when they play in form teams,as Leeds,Albion's and Norwich 's home results today demonstrate.
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How did fans of Derby and boro feel after we pumped them at home? Did they give up on the play offs? By comparison this really isn't a crisis
The huge difference there is of course that they were in the play off positions, and still are. We're not, and after the recent less than stellar results, they're getting further away.
2 bad results till a Risso 'Smith Out' thread I reckon ;)
Risso has a strong opinion, which i don't always agree with (unless watches) - and in this case we look for scape goats. But today we just were crap - don't blame individuals
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There will be loads of twists and turns
I don't think the top two is set in stone at all
Basically nobody is that good. Especially defensively - apart from boro
This is a sticky spell for us performance and injury wise. We've still only lost once. Too many draws of course. But I do think we'll regroup and push again. We've shown that we can take on anyone in this league and have a massive goal threat
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How did fans of Derby and boro feel after we pumped them at home? Did they give up on the play offs? By comparison this really isn't a crisis
The huge difference there is of course that they were in the play off positions, and still are. We're not, and after the recent less than stellar results, they're getting further away.
Boro are playing terribly atm, just had the luck of Ipswich at home today and Reading away last week. In any case we match up so well against them they'd be a good play off opponent once again.
We will have these fixtures soon enough but of course need to make them count and we obviously didn't today which is disappointing.
Would still be shocked if we're not in top 6 by start of February. Something will have gone very wrong then.
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It's all chickens of course, but I would love to stuff the bitters at Wembley.
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Our sticky spell involves not losing very many. Worse happens at sea.
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It's all chickens of course, but I would love to stuff the bitters at Wembley.
Beat them at home and we can let someone else have that pleasure.
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It's all chickens of course, but I would love to stuff the bitters at Wembley.
so would I. I think that game was the turning point with the handball and injury to Jack. it's knocked us off course
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It's all chickens of course, but I would love to stuff the bitters at Wembley.
so would I. I think that game was the turning point with the handball and injury to Jack. it's knocked us off course
Yep. The bitter stripey c***s
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How did fans of Derby and boro feel after we pumped them at home? Did they give up on the play offs? By comparison this really isn't a crisis
The huge difference there is of course that they were in the play off positions, and still are. We're not, and after the recent less than stellar results, they're getting further away.
Boro are playing terribly atm, just had the luck of Ipswich at home today and Reading away last week. In any case we match up so well against them they'd be a good play off opponent once again.
We will have these fixtures soon enough but of course need to make them count and we obviously didn't today which is disappointing.
Would still be shocked if we're not in top 6 by start of February. Something will have gone very wrong then.
We only match any one with Grealish in the team I’m afraid, unless Dean finds an alternative
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"We" decide from day one that players aren't good enough and attack them. Nyland, Birkir, Amavi, veretout etc. They do read social media! They will get hurt, no matter what they earn. We should fucking stop this
Well said. That has to be post of the year on this site.
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I also thought the turning point was Daniel Johnsons two heavy fouls in the space in 5 mins on McGinn right in front of the ref should have been two yellows.
Im happy with the point considering preston hit the bar and the post
But we could of nicked it with the chances in injury time.
any champ manager with any tactical nous will have noticed the way to unlock the villa defence is a long ball over the top of chester.
I thought the best players today were Whelan and Bree.
Garzi and Bolasie struggled to get into the game. Nothing sticking up front with Abraham.
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Poor today against a team ravaged by injuries. Lucky to get anything but then should have won if Bjarnason puts that sitter away. No excuse for missing that and he went with his wrong foot.
Massive two points dropped and we simply can't afford results like that if we want to finish in the play offs, never mind the top two.
Too many shite players still knocking about at the club like Nyland, Elmo, Hutton, Whelan. Not good enough.
Class following numbers wise but piss poor atmosphere for such a big following.
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Disappointing but considering how poor we were, I'm just glad we got a point out of it. That was the only plus from today to be honest.
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"We" decide from day one that players aren't good enough and attack them. Nyland, Birkir, Amavi, veretout etc. They do read social media! They will get hurt, no matter what they earn. We should fucking stop this
Well said. That has to be post of the year on this site.
Hardly.
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Just back.
Overall happy with a point, we conspired to provide yet more individual fuck ups that gifted them chances.
Nyland was a mess of contradictions, superb distribution and you will not see a better save all season from their forward in the first half. But his indiciciveness causes utter panic around him.
They just booted the ball over the top and chased it, we stood up to it fairly well but lack height and physicality at CB. Bree did very well, far better than I’d hoped.
In midfield we simply didn’t move the ball quick enough, I thought Whelan held our shape well and did a lot of unseen yards to be available for the pass. CH and McGinn didn’t and that caused us problems.
Wingers were all poor until Barney came on and gave us fresh impetuous to move the ball, then El Ghazi looked a real threat.
Overall a pretty average performance without the zip of early DS teams.
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It can't be underestimated the loss of Tuanzebe and Neil Taylor. Two players who gave a much better balance to the defence. Instead we have three rb's (thanks Steve) which has unbalanced our formation. Not forgetting the loss of Jack. Some players need a break.
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And my MOM, Elmo
Assured in defence and a threat moving forward.
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And my MOM, Elmo
Assured in defence and a threat moving forward.
Okay.... then!!!
I think I would have given it to Bree, who has acquitted himself better than I expected playing as a makeshift CH and looked assured today.
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"We" decide from day one that players aren't good enough and attack them. Nyland, Birkir, Amavi, veretout etc. They do read social media! They will get hurt, no matter what they earn. We should fucking stop this
Well said. That has to be post of the year on this site.
Hardly.
Indeed, much as I like Edvard, that was a right load of old bollocks!
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And my MOM, Elmo
Assured in defence and a threat moving forward.
;D
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And my MOM, Elmo
Assured in defence and a threat moving forward.
And a goal
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Why did Smithy start the same 11 when we have attacking players who could come in
I starting to get frustrated with Mcginn not putting the ball in net from realtive ease position in several games now.
The left side needed support of Albert Adomah and not Bolasie.
And Smithy will never change the one central striker up front policy when we have 3 on bench.
Yes unbalanced squad but needs Must.
Another thing what on Earth is JT doing ?
How is he not escaping some fair flack regarding defensive frailty if to be believed he's part of defense coach
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McGinn is a funny player, when the ball is near to him he looks a player, but for me he doesn’t influence the game enough, with Jack out he should be stepping up and bossing games, he has the talent, but he doesn’t. He’s too reactive. He doesn’t look to get on the ball enough.
There is much more to come from him and we need it.
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Why did Smithy start the same 11 when we have attacking players who could come in
I starting to get frustrated with Mcginn not putting the ball in net from realtive ease position in several games now.
The left side needed support of Albert Adomah and not Bolasie.
And Smithy will never change the one central striker up front policy when we have 3 on bench.
Yes unbalanced squad but needs Must.
Another thing what on Earth is JT doing ?
How is he not escaping some fair flack regarding defensive frailty if to be believed he's part of defense coach
I think it would be fairer to judge JT when we don't have to field three right-backs in the defence. The problem, as most would agree, stems from the idiot Bruce's decisions at the end of August. Taylor and Tuanzebe being injured is a massive blow.
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The midfield is failing to impose which in turn causes problems in defence , make shift or otherwise .
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The midfield is failing to impose which in turn causes problems in defence , make shift or otherwise .
I think the problem is Hourihane.
Does not do enough, his corners and crossing was awful today.
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Why did Smithy start the same 11 when we have attacking players who could come in
I starting to get frustrated with Mcginn not putting the ball in net from realtive ease position in several games now.
The left side needed support of Albert Adomah and not Bolasie.
And Smithy will never change the one central striker up front policy when we have 3 on bench.
Yes unbalanced squad but needs Must.
Another thing what on Earth is JT doing ?
How is he not escaping some fair flack regarding defensive frailty if to be believed he's part of defense coach
I think it would be fairer to judge JT when we don't have to field three right-backs in the defence. The problem, as most would agree, stems from the idiot Bruce's decisions at the end of August. Taylor and Tuanzebe being injured is a massive blow.
Oh yes fair point which I am aware of but I think needed reminding after being a bit annoyed!
The villa are on to a good thing and can't expect a 6+ goals beating of teams even though I was expecting such
The football in general has been great and it's so much more positive generally .
I need to get perspective but just after the great results as such villa didn't capitalise.
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Re Birkir's miss, I wonder if he was put off by the close attendance of Tammy behind him and he shanked the shot hurriedly. Would have been better off leaving it to the in-form striker.
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That miss from BB is criminal. I don’t care whether it was his weaker foot or not..... for a professional player to not have scored that is beyond a joke.
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Without Grealish, we lack someone with the intelligence or composure to slow the game down. The space that he created for the other attacking threats was also crucial.
We really do need him back asap
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Without Grealish, we lack someone with the intelligence or composure to slow the game down. The space that he created for the other attacking threats was also crucial.
We really do need him back asap
Agreed. Limited info from either Deano or the club about the likely length of his time out, which concerns me.
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Without Grealish, we lack someone with the intelligence or composure to slow the game down. The space that he created for the other attacking threats was also crucial.
We really do need him back asap
If we are truthful, when Grealish hasn't played in the past year or so, we have looked a pretty average Championship side. With the players we have had at our disposal that really should not have been the case, but it unfortunately has been.
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I don't see how posting honestly about a under par performance that you have just watched
pointing out what you see are the strengths and weakness of the side and how you think we should move forward is always seen as being negative
while I'm on the negative theme,
if there is not one single player in the youth/academy/outer squad who isn't good enough to replace just one of the following Whelan, BB, Hourahane, Taylor, Elmo, Hutton, Hogan,Lansbury Nyland when they play poorly or are tired
we might as well close the entire youth academy down, because although they seem to get good results and we rave about them from time to time, it just isn't working
or Smith isn't brave enough, take your pick
I agree and don’t get the “he can only work with what Bruce left him” argument.
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"We" decide from day one that players aren't good enough and attack them. Nyland, Birkir, Amavi, veretout etc. They do read social media! They will get hurt, no matter what they earn. We should fucking stop this
If they spent more time training instead of reading H&V they probably wouldn't be so shit.
:P ;)
This justifies giving them shit
Yes because Nyland was on page 14 of Match thread when they scored.
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I too dislike the "get rid" culture but modern football especially in the intensity of the Championship with international calls and cup games creates the need for players to perform consistently. There is no time to allow players to play themselves into form. That is not good but it is the way it is. The same applies to managers. I think Smith is very much the right man for the job but he is bound to be put under pressure and correctly criticized when time slips away and games do not yield the points they should.
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Amazed DS didn't rotate from the off. Very poor general performance and we got lucky with a point. Our back 5 were all over the place from the 1st to the last minute. Hopefully a new keeper will help settle things down at the back. We are an ordinary team without Jack and unless he comes back quickly it is the playoffs at best.
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Amazed DS didn't rotate from the off. Very poor general performance and we got lucky with a point. Our back 5 were all over the place from the 1st to the last minute. Hopefully a new keeper will help settle things down at the back. We are an ordinary team without Jack and unless he comes back quickly it is the playoffs at best.
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Did only see the highlights. BB's chance was a sitter but also with Tammy at his back maybe more difficult? I prefer to start BB off Whelan though. Or get a look in too the youth. Elmo at RB is dreadfull, he is all over but nowhere. Lucky with a draw but if you win those matches we go up.
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Whoops, what I meant to say was automatic promotion is extremely unlikely. We would need 50+ points from remaining 21 games. Could only drop about 10 points. This unbalanced squad can’t do it this time around.
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I don't see how posting honestly about a under par performance that you have just watched
pointing out what you see are the strengths and weakness of the side and how you think we should move forward is always seen as being negative
while I'm on the negative theme,
if there is not one single player in the youth/academy/outer squad who isn't good enough to replace just one of the following Whelan, BB, Hourahane, Taylor, Elmo, Hutton, Hogan,Lansbury Nyland when they play poorly or are tired
we might as well close the entire youth academy down, because although they seem to get good results and we rave about them from time to time, it just isn't working
or Smith isn't brave enough, take your pick
I agree and don’t get the “he can only work with what Bruce left him” argument.
You don't get that he can only work with what Bruce left him? What's not to get about that?
Anyways the situation is about to be changed in January.
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It would be great to rotate the squad, but I think some people are missing the point that we have no defenders, due to injury and loans. We also really only had BB to bring in, again due to Lansbury, Jedinak and Grealish (a whole midfield) being out, or just coming back from injury. Our options at the current time as so very limited. Coupled with the fact that our keeper and defence are very poor, midfield energy is being sapped and our forwards are really inconsistent. Smith has a lot of work to do but at least a) has players coming back and b) the transfer window opens in two days. He needs time but it would be a miracle of biblical proportions for us to go up this season, given the crap he's been left with.
Build the side around Kalinic, Grealish, Chester, McGinn going forward, when fit and available.
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Whoops, what I meant to say was automatic promotion is extremely unlikely. We would need 50+ points from remaining 21 games. Could only drop about 10 points. This unbalanced squad can’t do it this time around.
This makes sense. Play offs are the the most likely scenario for promotion but even if we did that what next? The squad rebuild needs to be massive once the loanees go back. Could it be done in time for the start of the season in May? It's a monumental ask of Dean & co. I think the club hierarchy are aware of this hence Christian Purslow playing down our promotion prospects this time round. If we do manage to get promoted the club will deal with it. If we don't Deano gets a proper go at it next season. All we the fans can do is support them through thick and thin and wait to see how things unfold.
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I completely understand why some folk where fuming after yesterday's result: and after watching the short highlights I felt similarly. With the advantage of hindsight (and not having travelled to Deepdale & spent a small fortune to witness the match), I'm pretty sure I'd have felt rather differently had BB not fluffed that absolute sitter at the death! I think that the vast majority of us realise that there's gonna be a further number of very poor performances to come before Deano has properly addressed the problems that Bruce & others have left him with, so I sincerely hope that he's afforded the time necessary to mount a sustained challenge for promotion. Whether we get into the play offs this season or not, my gut-feeling is that we now have the right Manager to get the job done.
Keep the faith everyone & UTV.
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I don't see how posting honestly about a under par performance that you have just watched
pointing out what you see are the strengths and weakness of the side and how you think we should move forward is always seen as being negative
while I'm on the negative theme,
if there is not one single player in the youth/academy/outer squad who isn't good enough to replace just one of the following Whelan, BB, Hourahane, Taylor, Elmo, Hutton, Hogan,Lansbury Nyland when they play poorly or are tired
we might as well close the entire youth academy down, because although they seem to get good results and we rave about them from time to time, it just isn't working
or Smith isn't brave enough, take your pick
I agree and don’t get the “he can only work with what Bruce left him” argument.
You don't get that he can only work with what Bruce left him? What's not to get about that?
Anyways the situation is about to be changed in January.
I don’t get that you didn’t read the post above from John that I was responding to. What about trying the youngsters? Smith is here to start a new era and not rely on “tried and not trusted” methods.
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I don't see how posting honestly about a under par performance that you have just watched
pointing out what you see are the strengths and weakness of the side and how you think we should move forward is always seen as being negative
while I'm on the negative theme,
if there is not one single player in the youth/academy/outer squad who isn't good enough to replace just one of the following Whelan, BB, Hourahane, Taylor, Elmo, Hutton, Hogan,Lansbury Nyland when they play poorly or are tired
we might as well close the entire youth academy down, because although they seem to get good results and we rave about them from time to time, it just isn't working
or Smith isn't brave enough, take your pick
I agree and don’t get the “he can only work with what Bruce left him” argument.
You don't get that he can only work with what Bruce left him? What's not to get about that?
Anyways the situation is about to be changed in January.
I don’t get that you didn’t read the post above from John that I was responding to. What about trying the youngsters? Smith is here to start a new era and not rely on “tried and not trusted” methods.
Spot on mate.
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Yes it's an unbalanced squad but it's hardly a weak squad.
Also a head coach should be able to get this lot going which Smith and coaching team did, after a few games, and now it's slipping
Jack Grealish is a big miss but it's the whole squad that should be performing better
Some said there was a less reliance on Grealish but him being out has caused issues in keeping the ball
The midfield again yesterday didn't dominate or impose themeselves
Hourihane was like this under Bruce and he still like that under Smith.
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It was a mistake to play the first eleven and Smith should also give youngsters a game .
Preston did it, Leeds did it.
Norwich are doing it .
Derby too
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Skillz you'll now this in a flash - who is out of contract in the summer/and or loan? I bet there'd loads including U23 players?
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Which youngsters?
Bree is just 21 and is in the team, Revan is on the bench.
Clark, Suliman, Lyden & Green are/have been on loan, O'Hare injured, Doyle-Hayes ill, Hepburn-Murphy presumably injured (not sure on that one but it'd be a rarity if not).
Posters who have watched the U21s have said Bedeau is nowhere near ready.
Genuine question. Which youngster that is fit and ready should he have thrown in?
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I don't see how posting honestly about a under par performance that you have just watched
pointing out what you see are the strengths and weakness of the side and how you think we should move forward is always seen as being negative
while I'm on the negative theme,
if there is not one single player in the youth/academy/outer squad who isn't good enough to replace just one of the following Whelan, BB, Hourahane, Taylor, Elmo, Hutton, Hogan,Lansbury Nyland when they play poorly or are tired
we might as well close the entire youth academy down, because although they seem to get good results and we rave about them from time to time, it just isn't working
or Smith isn't brave enough, take your pick
I agree and don’t get the “he can only work with what Bruce left him” argument.
You don't get that he can only work with what Bruce left him? What's not to get about that?
Anyways the situation is about to be changed in January.
I don’t get that you didn’t read the post above from John that I was responding to. What about trying the youngsters? Smith is here to start a new era and not rely on “tried and not trusted” methods.
Nothing wrong with giving the youngsters a go but are they good enough or ready for it. That's Smith's call and he obviously doesn't think they are.
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Which youngsters?
Bree is just 21 and is in the team, Revan is on the bench.
Clark, Suliman, Lyden & Green are/have been on loan, O'Hare injured, Doyle-Hayes ill, Hepburn-Murphy presumably injured (not sure on that one but it'd be a rarity if not).
Posters who have watched the U21s have said Bedeau is nowhere near ready.
Genuine question. Which youngster that is fit and ready should he have thrown in?
You took my words away. With O'Hare injured and us not having problems up top, the two obvious ones can't play.
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That’s true. I’ve been a mild critic of us not playing more kids but looking at that it’s jot like he’s got mant if any real options. It’s amazing the position he finds himself in.
I still go back to my thoughts that not going up this season isn’t altogether a bad thing. With the teams likely to go up and come down, a full pre season and 2 windows for Smith, surely makes us very strong favourites for automatic next season.
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Which youngsters?
Bree is just 21 and is in the team, Revan is on the bench.
Clark, Suliman, Lyden & Green are/have been on loan, O'Hare injured, Doyle-Hayes ill, Hepburn-Murphy presumably injured (not sure on that one but it'd be a rarity if not).
Posters who have watched the U21s have said Bedeau is nowhere near ready.
Genuine question. Which youngster that is fit and ready should he have thrown in?
You took my words away. With O'Hare injured and us not having problems up top, the two obvious ones can't play.
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Yep. It was a major frustration for me under Bruce that he never went for the youth unless forced to by circumstances, but atm the clamour to play them seems to be based on desperation rather than any real belief in them. In an idea world, the youth players should be part of your set-up at the start of the season if they're deemed ready. For example if Bruce had left us any sort of centre halves at the start of the season you could have had chester, a.n.other, elphick, youth player, instead of chester, and erm jedinak with Tuanzebe at right back! Now we'd be asking some kid to find his feet in a defence where all of them formwise are a bit "iffy". I'd like to see maybe Suliman given a shot in the first team squad if we had chester, a.n.other, Tuanzebe (when available) and elphick to choose from so he can be eased in, but not to be dropped in the deep end where he's likely to get very little help from his colleagues. That's if Smith deems him good enough, and you have to say, he's gonna be 21 in January and if he doesn't start making a few appearance soon, i doubt he ever will.
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Which youngsters?
Bree is just 21 and is in the team, Revan is on the bench.
Clark, Suliman, Lyden & Green are/have been on loan, O'Hare injured, Doyle-Hayes ill, Hepburn-Murphy presumably injured (not sure on that one but it'd be a rarity if not).
Posters who have watched the U21s have said Bedeau is nowhere near ready.
Genuine question. Which youngster that is fit and ready should he have thrown in?
You took my words away. With O'Hare injured and us not having problems up top, the two obvious ones can't play.
Thirded. It's bizarre to have a dig at the manager for not playing players who simply aren't available for one reason or another.
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Skillz you'll now this in a flash - who is out of contract in the summer/and or loan? I bet there'd loads including U23 players?
Check the transfer thread. I posted the contracts situation for the next two seasons.
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I live in Preston, so usually sit in the family stand for this one with my little boy. He enjoys it and gets to support both sides (his mums family are all PNE fans).
I was looking forwards to seeing the progress under Smith, but have to say we didn't look as good as we did at the same fixture last year under Bruce, so a tad disappointed especially as all the PNE fans I know were expecting a hiding.
That said we had enough chances in the last 15 minutes to have won it. Barney did more in his 15 minutes than Whelan did all game and made a difference, would like to see hime start the next game.
Chester and Bree were dreadful, I really do not think Bree will ever be good enough and would like us to get rid. Elmo and Hutton did ok, El Ghazi was awful, Bolasie was awful, Hourihane was anonymous. McGin and Abraham at least put a shift in.
Special mention for Nyland - terrible. He actually slipped over three times! Sooner the new GK comes in the better.
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Judging on that game no progress
But thats probably the worst we've played under Smith
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Worryingly the same was said after Stoke and Leeds.
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Things can only get better...
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Skillz you'll now this in a flash - who is out of contract in the summer/and or loan? I bet there'd loads including U23 players?
Albert Adomah & Hutton (year's extension options I think?)
Gk Steer & Bunn (think has a rolling contract option)
Defenders
Micah Richards,
Tommy Elphick
Ritchie De Laet
Midfielders
Mile Jedinak who is 34
Glenn Whelan who is 35
Youngster
Jordan Lyden,
Easah Suliman,
Mitch Clark,
Harry McKirdy,
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Things can only get better...
They absolutely will. If not by the end of this season then most certainly next.
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Things are a lot better than a few months ago.
We are struggling a bit at the moment down to injuries and fatigue.
I also think Smith has made a few errors of judgement but no where near the abject failure of the Bruce tenure.
This division is a real slog and momentum is everything.
We need to get that going again.
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Spot on Chigago.
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Until the January trade is over Smith is operating with the Bruce squad, add to that he is missing his two best form players with little defensive cover. What has been shown I believe in the last few games is the need to get cover for Grealish. The fact that Whelan is getting the amount of game time that he is points to our weakness in midfield. There are a number of players that we need to move on and we have to give Smith time to get it right.
Yes. Exactly this. This is still Bruce’s squad and clearly several of them are not capable playing the way Smith wants them to. Surely everyone must see this.
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We've hit a bit of a wall recently, down to the reasons Chicago rightly stated. Things look a bit worse because we really hit the heights with the performances at Derby, Boro and WBA, but when things settle down in the new year, they'll return.