Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Toronto Villa on December 23, 2018, 03:28:01 PM
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No amount of attacking and goals can counter how utterly bollocks we are at the back. Nyland, Elmo, Chester, Hutton you can all fuck off
And Steve Bruce you’re a fucking dickhead for leaving us in this position. You wanker.
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This pox of a league for another year, then.
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I’m off to get (very very) drunk.
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Elmo is a fucking liability.
Right pissed off with that.
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Defence is consistently fucking disgraceful. We concede 2/3 goals every fucking week, pathetic.
Elmo is appalling, but Chester is fucking hopeless as a leader.
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This pox of a league for another year, then.
That’s an absolute cert
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So much work still to do to get out of this division. We've not only got to find the right players, but also acquire them and bed them in before the defence is sorted. No idea how long that will take.
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The ghost of Steve Bruce will haunt villa park for sometime to come.
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I expect that's the autos gone. Would have been a big ask anyway.
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Without Grealish our midfield is mid-table Championshit. Defence has too many clangers in them and we're erratic going forward.
When the graphic went up for most injury time goals scored and it said we are level with Norwich I had a bad feeling about all the late ones we've conceded too.
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Well that puts to bed any notion that we can get automatic promotion.
Let Dean sort out the defence and smash this division... next season.
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We may make the play-offs, but that's the absolute best we can hope for. When this shambles of a defence was the best we could put out thanks to that spud headed wanker then it shows what a total mess we are at the back. Last 4 home games, 12 conceded.
6th consecutive game we've scored at least twice, and we've won 2 of them.
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We’re just a bit of a novelty joke team, an experiment in combining the best attack and worst defence in the league. Turns out it doesn’t get you promoted.
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What a load of shit, the whole defence needs changing and that still might not be enough
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Outplayed all over the pitch. Add to that the players will be completely knackered for Swansea. Gutted.
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Horrific from Elmo and not for the first time
I also had that all 3 subs were hopeless when they came on meanwhile Leeds bring on an 18 year old who scores for them and causes constant problems.
Defence was shit but when likes of BB can't even pass in a straight line you are always inviting pressure also I have to question Smith a little by not doing something to counter the constant threat down there right hand side
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VCTM jnr is celebrating his 18th birthday this weekend - thanks Villa for doing what you do so well and fucking up an otherwise great weekend - promotion ? No fucking chance
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Deserved absolutely nothing from the game and got nothing.
Final score flatters us. Leeds should have had 6 or 7 today. Defensively we are an utter disgrace, any decent team will rip us apart and we will not be anywhere near going up this year unless there is a MASSIVE rebuild of the defensive unit in January.
Even then we are probably too far back now.
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You’re not going to get promoted, auto or not, if you concede at least 2 goals every fucking week.
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So shit second half. Nobody comes away with any credit.
Leeds are 'mince' my arse. Slightly better than we are. We miss Grealish, hugely.
Fullback's are shit.
Fuming. Drunk. Fuck off
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I think that Smiths use of subs was out of the Bruce playbook.
Some shocking decision making.
Nyland you are allowed to come off your line for corners.
Kodija, you are allowed to track back.
Bolasie, god gave you a left foot.
Hutton it’s not your fault but you are passed your sell by date.
Elmo see Hutton.
And Hogan totally pointless.
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Smith's in-game tactics as shite as Bruce's today.
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Dean Smith even if he wanted to adopt a more defensive approach has just no options to work with. He’s having to use that useles cock Whelan because BB and Jedinak have both been out. He’s lost Grealish who took pressure off the back four by bringing it out and drawing players to him and soaking up time and pressure. And McGinn can’t do it all. The keeper is a fucking shitting puppy with no command of his penalty box or of the players around him. And our experienced defenders are just bollocks.
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Both fullbacks constantly showed their wingers onto their stronger foot.
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Gifted them 3 goals, but apart from patches they run the game, dominated midfield, exposed our weak full backs, centre backs not much better. Lots of work to do in the January transfer window.
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Dean Smith has to take some responsibility for not changing the system at half time. Yes we were 2-0 up but we were already being ripped to shreds and had been incredibly lucky not to concede numerous times.
He should have changed it at HT
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Smith's in-game tactics as shite as Bruce's today.
What options did he have exactly? Not saying he couldn’t have done other things but when your experienced defenders make astonishingly poor decisions then what does it matter what tactics you employ?
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sickening. the amount of points we've dropped this year is incredible
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2-0 up and we never looked comfortable.
I really hope Leeds fuck it up because their fans are worse than the noses.
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Keeper has no command of his box, but in fairness part of that is the utter pathetic efforts from the defence. Jansson should never have won that header for their second.
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I only really saw the first half and the last ten minutes but this seemed a fair result based on that. Dean Smith has improved us hugely going forwards and in terms of entertainment, but there’s not been another improvement defensively yet. Play offs it is then.
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Keeper has no command of his box, but in fairness part of that is the utter pathetic efforts from the defence. Jansson should never have won that header for their second.
Chester gets beaten in the air way too much. At 5ft 11 he just isn’t big enough to mark bigger, stronger attacking players or defenders attacking the ball.
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Leeds must be on amphetamines like the Nazi troops in WW2.
Our defence is shit thanks to that lazy, fat, fucker Bruce.
Great game for the neutral.
Fucking North Wind up the vitals and shafted by that odious bunch of turd fondlers.
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Smith's in-game tactics as shite as Bruce's today.
What options did he have exactly? Not saying he couldn’t have done other things but when your experienced defenders make astonishingly poor decisions then what does it matter what tactics you employ?
A start is not bringing Hogan on.
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Never mind the defence bolasie stabding there second half just letting the Leeds player past aka Amavi against wolves. You either want to play for the villa or you don’t
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Play offs it is then.
Zero % chance of playoffs unless this defence is dramatically improved.
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I thought the Hogan substitution was a strange one. His only attribute is that he is a goal poacher, (allegedly). At the time we were not creating anything. What we needed was pace up front to turn them round at the back and a bit of strength to hold it up. He gave us neither? Surely Davis would have been a better shout?
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Regardless of the mistakes made, credit should go to Leeds. Terrific way of playing football.
Was kodja sub tactical? That change surprised me.
Automatic promotion is looking increasingly remote, but I’m confident we will get playoffs.
We are absolutely not out of this at all yet
Nick
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2-0 up at home after 20 minutes. Doesn't matter who the previous manager was, you've got to win those.
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Imagine how sick players like Abraham and McGinn must feel. They work their balls off all over the pitch for nothing.
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We are 5 points of playoffs. Leeds will win this league. Not ready to cave in
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Smith's in-game tactics as shite as Bruce's today.
What options did he have exactly? Not saying he couldn’t have done other things but when your experienced defenders make astonishingly poor decisions then what does it matter what tactics you employ?
A start is not bringing Hogan on.
Davis would have been a better option, least he's a unit and can hold the ball up.
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Play offs it is then.
Zero % chance of playoffs unless this defence is dramatically improved.
We’ll finish midtable
I really hope FFP is sorted
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Smith's in-game tactics as shite as Bruce's today.
What options did he have exactly? Not saying he couldn’t have done other things but when your experienced defenders make astonishingly poor decisions then what does it matter what tactics you employ?
A start is not bringing Hogan on.
I have to say, that's twice Scott has had around ten minutes to bust a gut and get involved, and twice he's trotted around and done nothing.
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I think the fact everyone was saying we need a third shows how weak the defensive side of our game is. Some players aren’t fit enough either,
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Powder puff
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Smith's in-game tactics as shite as Bruce's today.
What options did he have exactly? Not saying he couldn’t have done other things but when your experienced defenders make astonishingly poor decisions then what does it matter what tactics you employ?
A start is not bringing Hogan on.
Would it have stopped Elmo giving the ball away on the half way line and then not tracking his player back who then went and scored?
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Regardless of the mistakes made, credit should go to Leeds. Terrific way of playing football.
Was kodja sub tactical? That change surprised me.
Automatic promotion is looking increasingly remote, but I’m confident we will get playoffs.
We are absolutely not out of this at all yet
Nick
Kodjia was not tracking back and the first goal was in part down to that.
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I’m not sure fitness is an issue, imo. We just played a bloody good team today. Key moment was that kodja chance just after half time
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Two new full backs needed in Jan as well as a commanding CB, probably 2, and the new keeper. At fault for all three goals today. Hutton constantly concedes space and chances to the opposition, and Elmo has now gifted three goals in two games. That last one was some of the most atrocious sub-schoolboy defending I've ever seen. Leeds also looked fitter than we did, we looked the more tired at the end.
The defence is Bruce's fault though. If I have a complaint against Smith it's that he seems reluctant to give some of the younger lads a go.
Probably can't get the autos now but I still think the play-offs are very achievable if we can get three good defenders in as well as the keeper.
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Very disappointing. Leeds seemed physically and mentally stronger than us all over the pitch. Let’s not be over dramatic though, we were missing two of our most effective players this season.
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Our defence struggle to do the basics right. You can coach them all you like but if they can't do the basics and switch off then you are fucked.
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We've collectively bottled it since giving that saft equaliser away to the Olbiyun.
We still have goals in us, but 2-0 up today and still didn't look certain to win.
They got their first and the game was only going one way. Bruce deserves plenty of pelters for playing chicken and leaving the centre half issue until the last few minutes of the transfer window.
But the volume of goals conceded points to a lack of organisation at the back, even with the shit hand dealt.
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Smith's in-game tactics as shite as Bruce's today.
What options did he have exactly? Not saying he couldn’t have done other things but when your experienced defenders make astonishingly poor decisions then what does it matter what tactics you employ?
A start is not bringing Hogan on.
Would it have stopped Elmo giving the ball away on the half way line and then not tracking his player back who then went and scored?
Hogan’s only contribution was to give the ball away that led to thier winner.
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Team, who every plays can not defend and it was the one reservation I had about appointing Smith is that his Brentford side where never good in defence either.
Yes it's a makeshift defence but Leeds had players out injured too , they lost their first choice LB 5 mins before kick off its just general poor play.The goal came from a ball from our left side it was an issue the entire 2nd half we just never dealt with it.
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So frustrating. Especially elmo
Think its play offs at best. He's got to sort that defence though. Cab you imagine if we did go up? We'd make Fulham look water tight
Have to say I though that in spells Leeds were absolutely sensational though. Wasn't expecting them to be that good.
Think they deserved to win. But we could have had more goals
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Regardless of the mistakes made, credit should go to Leeds. Terrific way of playing football.
Was kodja sub tactical? That change surprised me.
Automatic promotion is looking increasingly remote, but I’m confident we will get playoffs.
We are absolutely not out of this at all yet
Agreed. Fortunately we won't have to play Leeds every week. They deserve massive credit especially with all the injuries they have. Apart from sorting out the defence, we need to improve the midfield who got overrun today. Like you I couldn't understand Kodja going off when Bolasie appears to be a one trick pony. He's still not convinced me he's the real deal.
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Regardless of the mistakes made, credit should go to Leeds. Terrific way of playing football.
Was kodja sub tactical? That change surprised me.
Kodjia was not tracking back and the first goal was in part down to that.
I’d have kept him on, he was giving their 40 a right time. First goal was more due to shit defending by Elmohamedy
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Our back five line up as follows;
Donovan, Minogue, Dennis, Hindle, Daphne.
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Smith's in-game tactics as shite as Bruce's today.
What options did he have exactly? Not saying he couldn’t have done other things but when your experienced defenders make astonishingly poor decisions then what does it matter what tactics you employ?
A start is not bringing Hogan on.
Would it have stopped Elmo giving the ball away on the half way line and then not tracking his player back who then went and scored?
Hogan’s only contribution was to give the ball away that led to thier winner.
I think he gave it away every time he touched it. Which he does a lot
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We are mentally weak in defence. As soon as they scored our heads dropped. It’s not just that Leeds looked physically stronger most of that starts in the head and the belief you have in yourself. It’s exactly how all of us felt on here and I’m sure in the stadium at 2-0. We just knew it wouldn’t last that way and soon as they scored we all knew Leeds would score again. That’s exactly how the players feel now any time the opponents attack. It’s very reminiscent of Lambert when every opposition attack felt like another goal.
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Well given the absentees & that line-up, I was more shocked that we went 2-up than seeing us throwing the game away. Our so-called defence were as shite as they are - and need to be overhauled urgently; and we're half the side without JG. The play off's are still vaguely possible at a push: although mid-table obscurity probably beckons.
Merry Fecking Christmas.
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Nothing we didnt know already, potentially full of goals but toxic at the back. Doesn't make it any easier to take though. Amount of games we've lost like this over the years makes me want to cry. Smith can turn it but we need new defence. Second half of season can be a successful one but losing a game like they before Xmas is a sickener. Leeds were good though and mentally strong.
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On the plus side, whelan, nyland, hourihane mcginn, abraham and Kodjia all played well
Tho I agree with the above. Without jack we do lack technical skills in midfield
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Gutted. It could have been very different, not sure why we didn't kick on but a lot of players looked tired. I still think we can make the autos-but it really is a long shot now.
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I expected a skudding with that defence but I think we played ok at times, we are hamstrung by the squad. That will get better. It's only Christmas. Let's see where we are in May shall we?
Happy Christmas.
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It was shit. Our defence is abysmal.
However, going forward we looked good. A couple of signings and defensively we'll be ok. First defeat in 7.
Cahill and Terry?
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We lack technical skills in midfield and basic game management.
Which -combined with Jason Donovan in goal- ain't a winning combination.
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Any decent Villa team that I have known over the last 25 years has been built upon a rock solid defense, if we had a trademark I think it would be a really tight and tough central defense. Sadly lacking now though.
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On the plus side, whelan, nyland, hourihane mcginn, abraham and Kodjia all played well
Tho I agree with the above. Without jack we do lack technical skills in midfield
Nyland.?
Rooted to the line too often.
The corner they scored from was inside the 6 yard box.
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What a load of shite. That fucking defence, utter bollocks. And bringing Bjarnason and Hogan on? Hope he never does that again. Pair of non-footballer twats. Raffle winners to play for a day.
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We’d be wining these games with a barely competent defence let alone a rock solid one. When you are winning 2-0 and still pinning teams back it’s not very much to ask to do a shift at the back when momentum shifts the other way.
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We never seem to do it when we've got a full house. Agree with poster above- very poor/non existent game management.
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Very disappointing. Disturbingly, every season in the championship we seem to have been playing for the next transfer window. A consistent lack of long term planning has nobbled us, we’ll just have to hope that we get players in fast and they hit the ground running. Again.
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Hutton, Elmo, Whelan and Hourihane. Utter, utter shite.
Positives
None.
Negatives
Out played and battered senseless at home by an injury ravaged side, live in front of the nation in the 2nd division.
Smith. Utter inept. What part of 90 minutes of being bossed by Joe Allan made him think Connor "I'm not really here" Hourihane was capable of doing anything to stop Leeds and their movement.
The full backs; shocking. Hutton, while I appreciate he's on the wrong side, he is shocking.
Elmo. Never wear a Villa shirt again. Fucking chronic. Molested by an 18 year old.
To let Clark run fucking embarrassing. The header for the winner. Fuck off. Utterly fucking shit.
Whelan. You're too slow on the ball and too slow off the ball. They ran between the lines all day long. And you, Whelan, you pedestrian twat, are fucking past it against sides who can move the ball.
Kodjia-why the fuck was he taken off? He was keeping their full back occupied and he never crossed the half way line.
Utterly shocking display.
Automatics gone. We have Bruce to thank for that as the ridiculous imbalance of the squad is being laid bare.
We've also had to have a counsel of perfection given how woeful we were under Bruce.
Leeds deserved that, but we opened the door for them.
Play Offs are the only hope. That depends on a left footed centre half. Get fucking Chester on the right side. Get that keeper gone and get a pair of full backs.
Big ask. Thanks Bruce, you c***. And fuck off Smith for that shite today and all the other c***s on the pitch. Happy Christmas you fucking shower.
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I don't like Dean's griping. They were better than us throughout, don't blame the official because had they done their job properly, Whelan's blatant handball gets punished too.
Dean can only coach the players he has and he cannot make those players take the right decision. Quite what the fuck Elmo was doing with that header at the end was schoolboy poor. Chester, Bree and Hutton were poor as well. Our midfielder has huge holes in it and McGinn cannot do it all on his own.
Kodjia, El Ghazi, Hourihane, Elmo, Whelan and BB are so very inconsistent that we seem to take two steps forward and one step back. The defence needs fresh blood and we are absolutely desperate for a quality, mobile central defensive midfielder. We were done by the better side today and that's hard to take as it's to a horrible slag side. Lots of injuries to cope with but even with them back in, we are NOT at the top table yet in terms of quality. We CAN still make the play off's but we need at least three or four more players to come in.
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On the plus side, whelan, nyland, hourihane mcginn, abraham and Kodjia all played well
Tho I agree with the above. Without jack we do lack technical skills in midfield
Nyland.?
Rooted to the line too often.
The corner they scored from was inside the 6 yard box.
Are you kidding? Jesus - blame where blame should be. Keeper was not at fault today, could have won us the game with that throw where hogan somehow stopped running
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We never seem to do it when we've got a full house. Agree with poster above- very poor/non existent game management.
What’s the attendance got to do with it? If we had 36000 today would it have stopped our defenders making stupid errors?
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I don't like Dean's griping. They were better than us throughout, don't blame the official because had they done their job properly, Whelan's blatant handball gets punished too.
Dean can only coach the players he has and he cannot make those players take the right decision. Quite what the fuck Elmo was doing with that header at the end was schoolboy poor. Chester, Bree and Hutton were poor as well. Our midfielder has huge holes in it and McGinn cannot do it all on his own.
Kodjia, El Ghazi, Hourihane, Elmo, Whelan and BB are so very inconsistent that we seem to take two steps forward and one step back. The defence needs fresh blood and we are absolutely desperate for a quality, mobile central defensive midfielder. We were done by the better side today and that's hard to take as it's to a horrible slag side. Lots of injuries to cope with but even with them back in, we are NOT at the top table yet in terms of quality. We CAN still make the play off's but we need at least three or four more players to come in.
Elmo's header might as well been a leeds player setting up his own player
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Apparently now 17 points lost, from a leading position, dreadful. Their winner, came from us having them trapped in their corner, a shocker from Elmo gave them a gift, whole defence were terrible today. Nearly everytime, it seemed, when we went forward, we gave the ball away. Leeds clearly the better team, they've got some very talented youngsters in their team.
Play offs at best 50 - 50.
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What a load of shite. That fucking defence, utter bollocks. And bringing Bjarnason and Hogan on? Hope he never does that again. Pair of non-footballer twats. Raffle winners to play for a day.
I was ok with bringing Batney on if it as to add to get some extra legs in midfield, but he kept the same system and we were getting exposed so it made no difference.
Hogan is just a complete waste of a sub, particularly under those circumstances, awful decision.
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Hutton, Elmo, Whelan and Hourihane. Utter, utter shite.
Positives
None.
Negatives
Out played and battered senseless at home by an injury ravaged side, live in front of the nation in the 2nd division.
Smith. Utter inept. What part of 90 minutes of being bossed by Joe Allan made him think Connor "I'm not really here" Hourihane was capable of doing anything to stop Leeds and their movement.
The full backs; shocking. Hutton, while I appreciate he's on the wrong side, he is shocking.
Elmo. Never wear a Villa shirt again. Fucking chronic. Molested by an 18 year old.
To let Clark run fucking embarrassing. The header for the winner. Fuck off. Utterly fucking shit.
Whelan. You're too slow on the ball and too slow off the ball. They ran between the lines all day long. And you, Whelan, you pedestrian twat, are fucking past it against sides who can move the ball.
Kodjia-why the fuck was he taken off? He was keeping their full back occupied and he never crossed the half way line.
Utterly shocking display.
Automatics gone. We have Bruce to thank for that as the ridiculous imbalance of the squad is being laid bare.
We've also had to have a counsel of perfection given how woeful we were under Bruce.
Leeds deserved that, but we opened the door for them.
Play Offs are the only hope. That depends on a left footed centre half. Get fucking Chester on the right side. Get that keeper gone and get a pair of full backs.
Big ask. Thanks Bruce, you c***. And fuck off Smith for that shite today and all the other c***s on the pitch. Happy Christmas you fucking shower.
Positives....the arsehole Bruce is no longer here in body.
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On the plus side, whelan, nyland, hourihane mcginn, abraham and Kodjia all played well
Tho I agree with the above. Without jack we do lack technical skills in midfield
Nyland.?
Rooted to the line too often.
The corner they scored from was inside the 6 yard box.
Are you kidding? Jesus - blame where blame should be. Keeper was not at fault today, could have won us the game with that throw where hogan somehow stopped running
I am a bit old fashioned regarding goalkeepers, corners and the 6 yard box.
It’s basics.
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I don't like Dean's griping. They were better than us throughout, don't blame the official because had they done their job properly, Whelan's blatant handball gets punished too.
Dean can only coach the players he has and he cannot make those players take the right decision. Quite what the fuck Elmo was doing with that header at the end was schoolboy poor. Chester, Bree and Hutton were poor as well. Our midfielder has huge holes in it and McGinn cannot do it all on his own.
Kodjia, El Ghazi, Hourihane, Elmo, Whelan and BB are so very inconsistent that we seem to take two steps forward and one step back. The defence needs fresh blood and we are absolutely desperate for a quality, mobile central defensive midfielder. We were done by the better side today and that's hard to take as it's to a horrible slag side. Lots of injuries to cope with but even with them back in, we are NOT at the top table yet in terms of quality. We CAN still make the play off's but we need at least three or four more players to come in.
Elmo's header might as well been a leeds player setting up his own player
Maybe Nyland did not shout.
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We never seem to do it when we've got a full house. Agree with poster above- very poor/non existent game management.
Our record in games with over 40K since we were relegated is W5 D1 L1 plus a draw in the play-offs.
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Blame Smith or Terry for the second. Why the fuck was Hutton and not Abraham marking their only threat in the air. That wasn't the keepers fault.
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Blame Smith or Terry for the second. Why the fuck was Hutton and not Abraham marking their only threat in the air. That wasn't the keepers fault.
Isn’t that the captain’s responsibility on the pitch though? And Hutton had been marking Jansson and got away with two decent penalty shouts.
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The whole team was culpable for the poor defending, particularly in the second half. Elmo, Hutton and Chester managed to take the shitness to a whole new level though, but neither winger provided much cover either. Too many times we gave the ball away very cheaply and invited Dirty Leeds to run at us. Many of our better players ran out of steam towards the end, not surprising given how much chasing we were doing and Leeds' superior fitness.
Was surprised he brought Hogan on instead of Albert and I do wish he would have given O'Hare some time in Jack's spot.
The January window is of crucial importance and hopefully we get it right this time.
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Blame Smith or Terry for the second. Why the fuck was Hutton and not Abraham marking their only threat in the air. That wasn't the keepers fault.
Isn’t that the captain’s responsibility on the pitch though? And Hutton had been marking Jansson and got away with two decent penalty shouts.
No, it's the person whose organised them's job. I.e. the manager.
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We never seem to do it when we've got a full house. Agree with poster above- very poor/non existent game management.
What’s the attendance got to do with it? If we had 36000 today would it have stopped our defenders making stupid errors?
Did you read the post ?
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just home having left early as you could see there was only going to be one winner once they had equalized. What hurts most is that after two and a half years in this division we are not one inch further forward to getting out of it. We threw games away under RDL, Bruce and now Smith. TBH I wouldn't do more than shore things up a bit a the back in January as I don't think we will make the play offs now. With so many players going back from loans and/or out of contract in the summer leave major surgery until then.
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Elmo for first goal is as bad as he was for Stoke Pen , just can't handle someone running at him the attempt to win the ball was so piss poor as well the only thing that little foot out was likely to do was give away another pen.
Leeds where fitter than us but that comes from a solid Pre season with a new boss , I understand why they did it but keeping Bruce on in Summer continues to haunt us ..the only thing I give him credit for it is John McGinn who at times was a 1 man mf closing them down untill he tired.Houriane still flatters with his goals the rest of his game is so average
Talk of new players is one thing but Leeds are top with holes being plugged with kids how do we not have anyone from the youth that can step up !! Could a kid of the under 23's play worse at full back than Elmo
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I don't like Dean's griping. They were better than us throughout, don't blame the official because had they done their job properly, Whelan's blatant handball gets punished too.
He does say they were the better side and we didn't deserve to be 2 up at HT. As you say though, his saying the officials were poor is right, but saved us from conceding 2 pens.
Here is his OS interview for anyone that hasn't heard it
https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1076871360872353792
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We never seem to do it when we've got a full house. Agree with poster above- very poor/non existent game management.
What’s the attendance got to do with it? If we had 36000 today would it have stopped our defenders making stupid errors?
Did you read the post ?
Apart from we do tend to do it with a full house.
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From 2-0 up that felt like we were playing Man United, not Leeds United.
Today we saw the standard of a top 2 team and after the good first half hour we fell painfully short.
Reasons? Big one is without Grealish we simply are too slow getting the ball out to our wide players and it's no good having Bolaise and El Ghazi/Kodjia out there if we can't get them the ball. They become passengers in the team then.
Leeds were so quick transitioning the play from central midfield out wide and well that 12 year old kid Clarke and Allioski had field days one v one against AEM (easily his worst game for us) and Hutton.
McGinn was out MOTM I thought but he can't press for 90 minutes as he needs help from others. I thought Whelan was decent aswell. Apart from goals and odd good free kick Hourihane offers little in general play and going forward he should just be a squad player.
Hopefully this dosen't knock us back too much. It was a reality check for top 2, not play offs as Boro, Derby, Forest and possibly Norwich are more on our level tbh.
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Blame Smith or Terry for the second. Why the fuck was Hutton and not Abraham marking their only threat in the air. That wasn't the keepers fault.
Isn’t that the captain’s responsibility on the pitch though? And Hutton had been marking Jansson and got away with two decent penalty shouts.
No, it's the person whose organised them's job. I.e. the manager.
The plan by the manager was to set up Hutton to defend Jansson and it was a calamity waiting to happen. And he should have had a penalty. Maybe it should have been Abraham instead but you have to trust your best CB versus theirs. That’s a player issue.
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we could play without a keeper - or a defence for that matter - and not really notice it.
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I don't like Dean's griping. They were better than us throughout, don't blame the official because had they done their job properly, Whelan's blatant handball gets punished too.
Dean can only coach the players he has and he cannot make those players take the right decision. Quite what the fuck Elmo was doing with that header at the end was schoolboy poor. Chester, Bree and Hutton were poor as well. Our midfielder has huge holes in it and McGinn cannot do it all on his own.
Kodjia, El Ghazi, Hourihane, Elmo, Whelan and BB are so very inconsistent that we seem to take two steps forward and one step back. The defence needs fresh blood and we are absolutely desperate for a quality, mobile central defensive midfielder. We were done by the better side today and that's hard to take as it's to a horrible slag side. Lots of injuries to cope with but even with them back in, we are NOT at the top table yet in terms of quality. We CAN still make the play off's but we need at least three or four more players to come in.
Elmo's header might as well been a leeds player setting up his own player
Maybe Nyland did not shout.
Are you seriously blaming Nyland for that goal? Utterly ridiculous if you are.
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I haven’t read the tread yet so don’t know what the general consensus is but my take on it is that we are down to earth with a crash and a massive dose of reality.
Leeds were far better than from the off. Their tempo, their pressing, the movement, everything was better than us.
I have never been so nervous at 2-0 up, and that can’t be right.
If we are being honest, Nyland prevented that from being 6 or 7, he conceded 3 and was still outstanding. Their keeper barely made a save in the second half.
As for individuals, well, there is far too much to comment on.
Individual errors at bad times, bad choices and decision making at others.
Special mention though for Elmo who was particularly shite, as was El Ghazi.
And then there is the enigma that is Hourihane. A decent left foot on him but one of the most lightweight midfielders around, his inability to tackle, for a midfielder, is pretty fucking spectacular.
We have a huge squad but ar3miles away from Leeds.
I think we just might have to endure another season in this league. It will another 2 transfer windows at least until Deano can get a team that can play and challenge like Leeds did today.
Sad.
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Blame Smith or Terry for the second. Why the fuck was Hutton and not Abraham marking their only threat in the air. That wasn't the keepers fault.
Isn’t that the captain’s responsibility on the pitch though? And Hutton had been marking Jansson and got away with two decent penalty shouts.
No, it's the person whose organised them's job. I.e. the manager.
The plan by the manager was to set up Hutton to defend Jansson and it was a calamity waiting to happen. And he should have had a penalty. Maybe it should have been Abraham instead but you have to trust your best CB versus theirs. That’s a player issue.
TBF second goal was just a brilliant corner I thought. Brilliantly whipped in to six yard box and Jansson must've been 8ft in the air when he powered it into the corner.
It's the sort of corner where you wonder why teams bother with the floater to the back post nonsense we seem to like as to me curl in enough of them towards the six yard box and someone will get on the end of it.
First goal was far worse. Just leaving our FB one v one against their tricky wide players and we had enough of those warnings in the first half.
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I don't like Dean's griping. They were better than us throughout, don't blame the official because had they done their job properly, Whelan's blatant handball gets punished too.
Dean can only coach the players he has and he cannot make those players take the right decision. Quite what the fuck Elmo was doing with that header at the end was schoolboy poor. Chester, Bree and Hutton were poor as well. Our midfielder has huge holes in it and McGinn cannot do it all on his own.
Kodjia, El Ghazi, Hourihane, Elmo, Whelan and BB are so very inconsistent that we seem to take two steps forward and one step back. The defence needs fresh blood and we are absolutely desperate for a quality, mobile central defensive midfielder. We were done by the better side today and that's hard to take as it's to a horrible slag side. Lots of injuries to cope with but even with them back in, we are NOT at the top table yet in terms of quality. We CAN still make the play off's but we need at least three or four more players to come in.
Elmo's header might as well been a leeds player setting up his own player
Maybe Nyland did not shout.
Are you seriously blaming Nyland for that goal? Utterly ridiculous if you are.
No, I am trying to work out why Elmo inexplicably headed it.
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I don't like Dean's griping. They were better than us throughout, don't blame the official because had they done their job properly, Whelan's blatant handball gets punished too.
Dean can only coach the players he has and he cannot make those players take the right decision. Quite what the fuck Elmo was doing with that header at the end was schoolboy poor. Chester, Bree and Hutton were poor as well. Our midfielder has huge holes in it and McGinn cannot do it all on his own.
Kodjia, El Ghazi, Hourihane, Elmo, Whelan and BB are so very inconsistent that we seem to take two steps forward and one step back. The defence needs fresh blood and we are absolutely desperate for a quality, mobile central defensive midfielder. We were done by the better side today and that's hard to take as it's to a horrible slag side. Lots of injuries to cope with but even with them back in, we are NOT at the top table yet in terms of quality. We CAN still make the play off's but we need at least three or four more players to come in.
Elmo's header might as well been a leeds player setting up his own player
Maybe Nyland did not shout.
Are you seriously blaming Nyland for that goal? Utterly ridiculous if you are.
No, I am trying to work out why Elmo inexplicably headed it.
Probably tiredness and just plain decision making mate. He could have let it go, or headed behind. Had he been their centre forward, it would have been the greatest 'set up' seen today. Just a really bad error.
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Yeah I thought their corner goal was just a really good goal
Nyland not at all at fault today played well
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I thought the Hogan substitution was a strange one. His only attribute is that he is a goal poacher, (allegedly). At the time we were not creating anything. What we needed was pace up front to turn them round at the back and a bit of strength to hold it up. He gave us neither? Surely Davis would have been a better shout?
Davis not played in a year so way short of match fitness. Personally at that point I'd have just put Jedinak on and closed out the 2-2 as a point in the circumstances is better than what happened in the 94th minute.
Mad to think aswell in the 94th minute Leeds had a throw in right by the Holte end corner flag and 30 seconds later it was in our net. Shows how quick their transition was on counter attack compared to us.
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Apparently now 17 points lost, from a leading position, dreadful. .......
Sorry but these kind of stats are just utter, utter bollox.
The points aren’t won or lost until the game is over.
It’s just more fucking Sky wank.
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I thought we were crap in the second half.
The goalie, Hutton, Elmohamady, hourihane, Whelan....it is boring to repeat these names. We won't go up with these players in the team. I'm sick of saying it.
Play the youngsters. Most successful teams do. Leeds do, and did today. They're better thanus. They are all over the park.
I really enjoyed the first half, hated the second. Bed time, and a Christmas holiday is in order.
We'll be back and I fully expect us to win on Boxing Day.
Up the Villa, all.
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Christmas can fuck off already. Four games, ten days. Really can't be arsed with the stress of it.
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I don't like Dean's griping. They were better than us throughout, don't blame the official because had they done their job properly, Whelan's blatant handball gets punished too.
Dean can only coach the players he has and he cannot make those players take the right decision. Quite what the fuck Elmo was doing with that header at the end was schoolboy poor. Chester, Bree and Hutton were poor as well. Our midfielder has huge holes in it and McGinn cannot do it all on his own.
Kodjia, El Ghazi, Hourihane, Elmo, Whelan and BB are so very inconsistent that we seem to take two steps forward and one step back. The defence needs fresh blood and we are absolutely desperate for a quality, mobile central defensive midfielder. We were done by the better side today and that's hard to take as it's to a horrible slag side. Lots of injuries to cope with but even with them back in, we are NOT at the top table yet in terms of quality. We CAN still make the play off's but we need at least three or four more players to come in.
What decisions did DS query out of interest?
Have to say apart from Allioski being booked 50 minutes after he should've been I'm struggling to think of any other decision that the ref should've given us. I agree at 2-2 he missed clear handball from the corner.
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To be fair I think we should be giving Leeds more credit. Look a very good team and how many of their players could anyone have named before the start of the season? The key word is TEAM. We have to give Dean and the management time to build the same. He has turned a group of players into a very good attacking team. It isn't his defence and he is addressing the issues - no.1 a keeper with more to follow.
The 3rd goal was always going to be key. We had a couple of decent chances at the start of the second half and looked as if we wanted it more than they did. They got it and the pendulum swung in their favour.
Their winner was ridiculous, a minute earlier they were time-wasting in their own half and happy to take the draw.
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Christmas can fuck off already. Four games, ten days. Really can't be arsed with the stress of it.
Good news is none of the next three are anywhere near as good as Leeds. Only problem is today has taken a fair amount out of us. McGinn must've run miles today with the effort he put in.
Have to DS did disappoint me with his in game management. We had plenty of warning signs from Leeds in the first half, Kilch hitting it straight at Nyland when he should've scored, Hernandez curling a FK a yard wide and Allioski hitting one just wide of the post.
At 2-0 up we needed a far ,more narrow formation and actually have players infront of our FBs. Hogan coming on for last 10 was certainly an odd one.
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I haven’t read the tread yet so don’t know what the general consensus is but my take on it is that we are down to earth with a crash and a massive dose of reality.
Leeds were far better than from the off. Their tempo, their pressing, the movement, everything was better than us.
I have never been so nervous at 2-0 up, and that can’t be right.
If we are being honest, Nyland prevented that from being 6 or 7, he conceded 3 and was still outstanding. Their keeper barely made a save in the second half.
As for individuals, well, there is far too much to comment on.
Individual errors at bad times, bad choices and decision making at others.
Special mention though for Elmo who was particularly shite, as was El Ghazi.
And then there is the enigma that is Hourihane. A decent left foot on him but one of the most lightweight midfielders around, his inability to tackle, for a midfielder, is pretty fucking spectacular.
We have a huge squad but ar3miles away from Leeds.
I think we just might have to endure another season in this league. It will another 2 transfer windows at least until Deano can get a team that can play and challenge like Leeds did today.
Sad.
Probably the best analysis I've seen so far. At 2-0 I also never thought we'd keep a clean sheet and if it went to 2-1 we'd get nervous and retreat and that's exactly what happened.
This match reminded me of Wolves away from last season and even the first half of the play off final. When we play opposition who can play quick 1-2s in midfield so many of our players get bypassed (I'm looking at you Hourihane) and so our liability defence is under pressure from opposition far quicker than they should be.
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we should of taken the point at 2-2 instead we were rushing to take goal kicks throw ins etc.
Leeds wanted to play at a higher tempo. we looked like we were too knackered in the 2nd half to do that so should of just taken the point.
The subs didn't make any impact when Kodjia went off we had nothing up front.
I don't think leeds will win the league I predict they will fall away.
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We are always shit at Christmas so I don’t expect Boxing Day to be a cakewalk that is for sure. Tuanzebe out for several weeks isn’t going to help.
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I don't think leeds will win the league I predict they will fall away.
Unfortunately I think that's the sort of result that can galvanise a side. It could be their Leicester moment.
We're good that way.
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we should of taken the point at 2-2 instead we were rushing to take goal kicks throw ins etc.
Leeds wanted to play at a higher tempo. we looked like we were too knackered in the 2nd half to do that so should of just taken the point.
The subs didn't make any impact when Kodjia went off we had nothing up front.
I don't think leeds will win the league I predict they will fall away.
Think we just got caught thinking it was a total must win for top 2. I agree take the point and hope Norwich hit a 1 win in 6 spell in next two months.
Leeds will go up imo. They haven't even got their full team out (no Bamford and Barry Douglas in their 11) yet have now won 6/6 after a dodgy patch which is exactly what you need to do for top 2.
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We are simply conceding far too many goals to finish anywhere other than mid table this season I am afraid. Need a new defence between now and end of August.
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when Whelan and Horahaine are half of your midfield you are always going to struggle
the defence is what it is we know it’s shit but we only have two midfielders that are any good and one of them was injured today and we will always struggle as long as that is the case especially against top 6 type teams
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A gut wrenching defeat and has probably just about ended any realistic hope that was left of automatic promotion. We just look so nervy and fragile at the back and patterns are emerging of the same mistakes being made by the same players. I don't agree that we were totally outplayed today, as apart from a 20 minute period in the second half, I thought the game was pretty even. During that 20 minute period though, I thought it was noticeable that Leeds really upped the tempo, totally overran us in midfield and got the ball wide quickly. Their two wingers were both on their 'wrong' side, yet Hutton and Elmohamady continually allowed them the time and space to cut inside, which they did well.
Like someone else mentioned, the substitutes made very little impact when they came on. I can't see the point of shunting Abraham out wide and bringing on Hogan, and think Davis would be a better bet coming on in those situations.
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Leeds played well but we gave them a huge helping hand with the defending. It's now Elmo's turn to be a liability.
We didn't cut out the diagonal balls all day and they were able to receive the ball at leisure and double up with the full backs.
I was really hoping that by now, Smith and Terry would've managed to tighten up the defence even allowing for no new players.
We've conceded 22 at home, by far the worst in the league and having to continually score 3 or 4 to win is just not tenable.
I actually thought we looked the more likely winners in the last 10 minutes but the substitutions were really poor. El Ghazy and Hogan are just no good for ball retention and they both conceded possession ridiculously easily.
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We have got through a tough run of games and this is the first defeat, without our best player, so it's not all doom and gloom. With a couple of reinforcements and some favourable fixtures I think we'll be in the play off mix. At least we are a banker on the both teams to score bet.
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Probably first game since Dean came in that he's worth criticism.
Thought his in game management was poor and just hearing him now saying he was worried at half time? So was I but I don't have the power to change tactics/personnel. We just played the same way which left our full backs majorly exposed and we know what happened with that.
Disappointing as I watched Brentford away to Leeds in what was DS last game there and they were excellent and outplayed Leeds so guess it shows what different styles of squad are capable of.
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He needs to build his own team.
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I knew we'd get beat the minute I heard Hourihane and Whelan were starting. Neither should start another game for us or Elmo.
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He needs to build his own team.
Well we've seen other managers build their own teams and they've turned out to be much worse than what was inherited!
I can certainly see why we want Sawyers, certainly need a reliable stand in for games Grealish misses.
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He needs to build his own team.
Both on and off the pitch. It is going to take time and he needs to be given that.
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We are simply conceding far too many goals to finish anywhere other than mid table this season I am afraid. Need a new defence between now and end of August.
Only 6 less than WBA....
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I knew we'd get beat the minute I heard Hourihane and Whelan were starting. Neither should start another game for us or Elmo.
He needs them until he has his own players to bring in. I reckon he'd have brought the kids in by now if he felt they would be doing any better. I think he needs at least two windows, as does Jesus Pitarch. Clear the rot, let Bruce sign the shit when he gets the Owls gig.
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Blame Smith or Terry for the second. Why the fuck was Hutton and not Abraham marking their only threat in the air. That wasn't the keepers fault.
No as usual Nyland gets blamed, but it’s blatantly the defence’s lack of a plan and ineptitude that cost us today. Chester, Hutton and Elmo we’re particularly dreadful.
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Just found out we lost 2-3 after leaving at 90+2 to sell H&V. No wonder I barely sold any more.
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Blame Smith or Terry for the second. Why the fuck was Hutton and not Abraham marking their only threat in the air. That wasn't the keepers fault.
No as usual Nyland gets blamed, but it’s blatantly the defence’s lack of a plan and ineptitude that cost us today. Chester, Hutton and Elmo we’re particularly dreadful.
No chance whatsoever Nyland could've come and claimed that corner.
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Yep I thought Nyland saved us several times. How many times did the fucking defence just back off and let them play? I think a fit Thor helps that midfield, he’s much much better than Whelan.
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I knew we'd get beat the minute I heard Hourihane and Whelan were starting. Neither should start another game for us or Elmo.
I thought Whelan was our best player.
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I knew we'd get beat the minute I heard Hourihane and Whelan were starting. Neither should start another game for us or Elmo.
I thought Whelan was our best player.
McGinn for me. Whelan did have a good game though.
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Blame Smith or Terry for the second. Why the fuck was Hutton and not Abraham marking their only threat in the air. That wasn't the keepers fault.
No as usual Nyland gets blamed, but it’s blatantly the defence’s lack of a plan and ineptitude that cost us today. Chester, Hutton and Elmo we’re particularly dreadful.
No chance whatsoever Nyland could've come and claimed that corner.
He looked flatfooted when the header went in.
Which is sometimes unavoidable if the delivery and finish is good enough. But it has happened way too often with him.
There were bigger culprits for all three goals today. But what a good keeper gives you - as well as being reliable- is saving those chances that sometimes look unsaveable. Johnstone did that quite a lot last season, as well as having a decent all-round presence. Those type of moments are worth their weight in gold come the season's end.
I'm not a keeper, so I'm not speaking from any level of experience at all. But the dive or save is usually the final part of the act. The footwork and getting yourself in the right position in the first instance is usually key. But Nyland has looked ropey with that - as he has with all other facets of being a keeper, in fairness.
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We were outclassed in midfield and given Hourihane and Whelan's lack of legs that wasn't a surprise. Bielsa out managed Smith today. We have a long way to go.
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I don't think leeds will win the league I predict they will fall away.
Unfortunately I think that's the sort of result that can galvanise a side. It could be their Leicester moment.
We're good that way.
Today was their 6th win in a row, not sure they need much galvanising. The bastards.
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Coming to the biggest club in the division and winning from being 2-0 down (and looking more likely to concede a third in the early stages of the second half) will be one of the results they'll point to if they go up.
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I don't like Dean's griping. They were better than us throughout, don't blame the official because had they done their job properly, Whelan's blatant handball gets punished too.
Dean can only coach the players he has and he cannot make those players take the right decision. Quite what the fuck Elmo was doing with that header at the end was schoolboy poor. Chester, Bree and Hutton were poor as well. Our midfielder has huge holes in it and McGinn cannot do it all on his own.
Kodjia, El Ghazi, Hourihane, Elmo, Whelan and BB are so very inconsistent that we seem to take two steps forward and one step back. The defence needs fresh blood and we are absolutely desperate for a quality, mobile central defensive midfielder. We were done by the better side today and that's hard to take as it's to a horrible slag side. Lots of injuries to cope with but even with them back in, we are NOT at the top table yet in terms of quality. We CAN still make the play off's but we need at least three or four more players to come in.
What decisions did DS query out of interest?
Said that Kodj would have lobbed the goalie in the first minute but he was fouled and the ref played on.
Also said that Leeds fouled a lot "tactically", once we got in behind them and the ref didn't book them enough.
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I used to bang on about it on the “Bruce Out” thread but the longer he remained in charge, the longer it would be to recover from him and here we are. Smith must be allowed to build his own squad and it’s not just the defence that needs overhauling. I think it’ll be three windows needed to get rid of the rubbish and bring in the quality required to not only reach the Premier League but remain there. But I think we’re hesding in the right direction
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I don't like Dean's griping. They were better than us throughout, don't blame the official because had they done their job properly, Whelan's blatant handball gets punished too.
Dean can only coach the players he has and he cannot make those players take the right decision. Quite what the fuck Elmo was doing with that header at the end was schoolboy poor. Chester, Bree and Hutton were poor as well. Our midfielder has huge holes in it and McGinn cannot do it all on his own.
Kodjia, El Ghazi, Hourihane, Elmo, Whelan and BB are so very inconsistent that we seem to take two steps forward and one step back. The defence needs fresh blood and we are absolutely desperate for a quality, mobile central defensive midfielder. We were done by the better side today and that's hard to take as it's to a horrible slag side. Lots of injuries to cope with but even with them back in, we are NOT at the top table yet in terms of quality. We CAN still make the play off's but we need at least three or four more players to come in.
What decisions did DS query out of interest?
Said that Kodj would have lobbed the goalie in the first minute but he was fouled and the ref played on.
Also said that Leeds fouled a lot "tactically", once we got in behind them and the ref didn't book them enough.
Well we scored two goals after that so not a major decision.
Certainly Allioski was someone who somehow escaped a booking in first half (laughable dive in the first half in the box) but again not something that affects a game.
He did blame the ref a lot in interviews at Walsall but that was usually in games when the team had been poor so I just assume it's a tactic of shifting the focus and he'll deal with stuff in house.
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Best team won, but boy don't we make it easy for teams to score. Our defence needs a lot of work, and Steve Bruce needs to make Elmo and Hogan his first two signings at Wednesday. Merry Christmas all!
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Just found out we lost 2-3 after leaving at 90+2 to sell H&V. No wonder I barely sold any more.
I left at 2-2 to beat the traffic 😁
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new fullbacks please ... and a CD .. we aint the same without JG and I just wish Kodja would look up and pass ( like the second goal ) m frustrates the hell out of me . BB couldnt pass the ball , hogan stopped running for a chance on goal and after witnessing some amazing trickery by bolaise , he cant pass the ball in the box with Villa players waiting for a tap in.
saying that ..
Leeds were much better .
nice christmas present Villa
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Needs must, we absolutely have to recall Tommy Elphick on Jan 1.
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I thought the midfield three all played well in their own right
But I also agree that we need more technical players to play how Smith wants. Grealish is proving how good he is at the moment. He'd have made a huge difference today
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We were outclassed in midfield and given Hourihane and Whelan's lack of legs that wasn't a surprise. Bielsa out managed Smith today. We have a long way to go.
Yep. Smith is clearly a great manager and a massive upgrade on Bruce, but that was poor game management today.
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https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/competitions/championship/11590318/aston-villa-2-3-leeds
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We've played a tough run of fixtures since deano came in and were battering teams till grealish got injured. Once he's back and we start playing some of the dross we’ll start winning again. Even with our slapstick defence. Leeds look a different level at the moment but we’ve shown we can beat the teams just below that. With some defensive reinforcements and an average experienced keeper I am more than confident we can finish in the play offs.
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I’ve gone on about the negatives today, for obvious reasons, but thought SJM, Kodj and Tammy were excellent today.
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We'll need 2 CB's come January. Really unlucky to lose Jack and Axel for arguably the most important game this season. Had they played, we certainly wouldn't have list today.
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https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/competitions/championship/11590412/bolasies-filthy-nutmeg
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The good news is we don't have to play Leeds every week. I thought they were excellent. My Lambo-ism of the day.
We had an off-day, coupled with a few key players out and a couple of players who we're getting tired of, starting. Hourihane and Whelan are too blunt and we were not prepared to adventure. We never got to grips with their midfield and didn't impose ourselves enough. Hourihane's goal was well taken. Perhaps their keeper should have done better, but Kodjia did so well to set that up.
Our defence is poor. We never really found a way to cope with their wingers in particular. Elmohamady. I wish I knew what he was thinking for their third. That said we still had chances. Better decision making, more ruthlessness and who knows.
Still, one loss in eight? We had been playing exceptionally and there's definitely more of that to come. All is not lost, even if the automatics might be. If we sneak into the playoff positions we would be a serious force I believe. I always thought if we only played better football, I can take losses and I stand by that. We will win more than we lose I think. So even though we were schooled a bit today, overall I'm still very hopeful and positive about this season and the direction we're finally going in.
Up the Villa!
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Our full backs drive me insane. Not only are they prone to the more than occasional fuck up, they are never close to their man and just let them ping the ball in with ease...Stop it coming in and that's half the job done.
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Have to say i thought Leeds were the better team from the off.
They played some lovely football and never looked panicked on the ball when in a tight space unlike ourselves. We all said at half time it didn't feel like we were winning 2-0. If we'd have taken one of the chances at the start of the second half and gone three up we 'might' have won it. But i still feel Leeds would have scored a couple
Lost to a better side. No great shame there.
Bolsaie will continue to get a round of fucks off me for that pathetic flick thing he tried in the second when he could've just smashed it across goal. The absolute tit.
Roll on Boxing Day
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Still think we will make the play-offs as long as Smith can strengthen the defence in January.
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Not surprised by the result really. As it stands we're not good enough for promotion. The new 'keeper is a start. Hopefully there's more to come.
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Our full backs drive me insane. Not only are they prone to the more than occasional fuck up, they are never close to their man and just let them ping the ball in with ease...Stop it coming in and that's half the job done.
Hutton especially is the worst at that. He gave their right side all the time and space in the world today. He's never where you'd hope a full back should be. I'm absolutely sick of him being torn a new one by averagely skilled wingers. We need an entire new defence.
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Hutton still being a first choice full back says it all.
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I hate to say this - Leeds were very good for much of the game.
My main gripe about the game today was our lack of respect for possession of the ball - we gave the ball away so cheaply at times. And, to a team like Leeds they were able to make much better use of it.
Apart from the fact that Potatohead left us with a shite defence - which really showed today - our problems ar ein midfiled. Hourihane and Whelan lack pace, energy and commitment. I'd prefer to have seen Doyle-Hayes involved in midfield because we lacked the energy to compete; I'd also have considered O'Hare for the Grealish role.
When I talk about energy, I mean the sort demonstrated by Abraham and McGinn: they showed what is required to get out of this league. And, a dynamic midfield can cover the fullbacks when they get caught out of position, as Hutton seems to do frequently.
Bree did fine, actually: we were undone by a clever opposition and poor covering.
I've now got to go back to all the texts received from fans of dirty Leeds ...
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Our full backs drive me insane. Not only are they prone to the more than occasional fuck up, they are never close to their man and just let them ping the ball in with ease...Stop it coming in and that's half the job done.
Hutton especially is the worst at that. He gave their right side all the time and space in the world today. He's never where you'd hope a full back should be. I'm absolutely sick of him being torn a new one by averagely skilled wingers. We need an entire new defence.
We don't tend to rely on the two wingers to get back to cover, therefore, the three central midfielders need to cover across the pitch together. Whelan is no longer capable of doing that and Hourihane is powder puff.
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Our full backs drive me insane. Not only are they prone to the more than occasional fuck up, they are never close to their man and just let them ping the ball in with ease...Stop it coming in and that's half the job done.
Hutton especially is the worst at that. He gave their right side all the time and space in the world today. He's never where you'd hope a full back should be. I'm absolutely sick of him being torn a new one by averagely skilled wingers. We need an entire new defence.
We don't tend to rely on the two wingers to get back to cover, therefore, the three central midfielders need to cover across the pitch together. Whelan is no longer capable of doing that and Hourihane is powder puff.
I didn't actually realise until ten minutes ago Adomah was on the bench today. Guess he was lacking match fitness but he'd have been a better sub than El Ghazi at 2-2 as he's the one winger we have at the club who is fine at tracking back and helping the FB and boy was that needed in the second half.
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Blame Smith or Terry for the second. Why the fuck was Hutton and not Abraham marking their only threat in the air. That wasn't the keepers fault.
No as usual Nyland gets blamed, but it’s blatantly the defence’s lack of a plan and ineptitude that cost us today. Chester, Hutton and Elmo we’re particularly dreadful.
No it’s not lack of plan it’s crap players all three of them.
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Poor performance by Smith today. The room given by our full backs down both flanks was a glaring, match long fuck up. The Leeds wide players must have thought they had died and gone to heaven on the wide open spaces of Villa Park. The substitutions in their timing and effectiveness were pure Steve Bruce. The person who scouted Hogan should be tarred and feathered. As my son said Hogan does not play the ball, it bounces off him.
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Have to say best team won. Hate to say it but Leeds are the best side I've seen this season and think they'll go up as champions. Seeing the line up before the game I said I'd be happy with a point, and even when we went 2 up I still thought they'd score at least one and get back at us. Losing in extra time was a pisser, especially as Elmo gifted them the goal. Love the entertainment value since Deano came in, but until he sorts out/completely replaces that defence we'll struggle to get to the play-offs let alone go up automatically (which IMO is beyond reach now).
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Hutton still being a first choice full back says it all.
Elmo being anywhere near the First XI says a lot too.
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Whelan being our midfield playmaker says the same.
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Our full backs drive me insane. Not only are they prone to the more than occasional fuck up, they are never close to their man and just let them ping the ball in with ease...Stop it coming in and that's half the job done.
Hutton especially is the worst at that. He gave their right side all the time and space in the world today. He's never where you'd hope a full back should be. I'm absolutely sick of him being torn a new one by averagely skilled wingers. We need an entire new defence.
We don't tend to rely on the two wingers to get back to cover, therefore, the three central midfielders need to cover across the pitch together. Whelan is no longer capable of doing that and Hourihane is powder puff.
Exactly this ,Whelan did do some ok covering back but he just doesn't have the legs to cope with a team playing like Leeds.That said BB when he came on was awful but likely from a good period out and us rushing him back onto bench due to others being out.
Leeds play alot like Wolves they keep the ball well in tight spaces but are always looking for the crossfield balls into space.We lacked the energy in mf to win the ball and when we did have the ball we failed to keep the ball well enough to have them working hard to get it back.
In terms of game management Smith decided to stick with what he had and go for the 3rd goal and to be fair the first 10 mins of second half we did look as if we could put the game to bed.Once they got the goal though we struggled and always looked in danger.Under Bruce we would have come out in 2nd half and just sat back and IMO we would of got the same outcome it just would have come early that injury time.
We fundamentally don't have the players to tough out holding onto leads we lack pace and strength in midfield to win the ball back , the full backs are dodgy and CB has no one who dominates in the air to clear arial attacks
Where I am envious of Leeds and Norwich is they are leading the league not because they went and brought players but because they have good coaching.We apparently have a good youth development at the club but evidently no one good enough to come in and play at this level unlike Leeds who had 2 kids playing today one of which scored !!
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Play off teams are often under prepared for the following season as they cannot team build until well into June. Perhaps anotIiher season in the Championship where Dean can move on many of our underperformers and bring in players who can flourish in his system will be a better long term bet.
Also the result today was a fair reflection of the game.
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Hutton still being a first choice full back says it all.
Elmo being anywhere near the First XI says a lot too.
He has his limits but was generally fine last season.
Terrible last few games. If we actually had some CBs fit I wouldn't be against playing Bree at full back and seeing how he does but guess he'll have to stay at CB up to January which isn't great.
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We won't know if the kids are good enough if we never give them a chance. You'll never convince me that O'Hare would be as monumentally useless as Hogan though.
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I thought the midfield three all played well in their own right
But I also agree that we need more technical players to play how Smith wants. Grealish is proving how good he is at the moment. He'd have made a huge difference today
If the rumours are true then we are without Jack for a good while yet. We have to find a way to win without him (and it’s probably good practice for next season).
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The problems with the squad are there for all to see. As the distance between Bruce's exit lengthens i'm still no clearer what happened last summer. Just a huge fuck-up in transfer strategy? Did he think he'd get another season out of the likes of Whelan? Some sort of breakdown? Still none the wiser.
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Play off teams are often under prepared for the following season as they cannot team build until well into June. Perhaps anotIiher season in the Championship where Dean can move on many of our underperformers and bring in players who can flourish in his system will be a better long term bet.
Also the result today was a fair reflection of the game.
Starting a season well would do wonders for us. Cardiff last season started with 5 straight wins as did Leeds this season. Gives you an immediate points bugger.
All three seasons down here we've had poor starts and had to play catch up and no matter the league that's not an easy thing to do. We saw this last season even when we had that 7 game winning run.
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Play off teams are often under prepared for the following season as they cannot team build until well into June. Perhaps anotIiher season in the Championship where Dean can move on many of our underperformers and bring in players who can flourish in his system will be a better long term bet.
Also the result today was a fair reflection of the game.
Starting a season well would do wonders for us. Cardiff last season started with 5 straight wins as did Leeds this season. Gives you an immediate points bugger.
I'm not sure another pain in the arse is what we need.
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From a mate on Twitter: "Anyone know what time Birmingham City's civic reception and parade through the city takes place tomorrow because they are above Villa at Christmas?"
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Play off teams are often under prepared for the following season as they cannot team build until well into June. Perhaps anotIiher season in the Championship where Dean can move on many of our underperformers and bring in players who can flourish in his system will be a better long term bet.
Also the result today was a fair reflection of the game.
I understand what you are saying, but if in May we are at Wembley beating Forest 5-4 in the play off final with 5 minutes to go I may beg to differ.
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We won't know if the kids are good enough if we never give them a chance. You'll never convince me that O'Hare would be as monumentally useless as Hogan though.
The kids thing is pissing me off right now. We have a very good academy and kids that deserve a chance. Leeds brought on an 18 year old at HT and his goal changed the entire game. Why we keep persisting with the likes of Whelan and others is baffling. Throw them in and make them the future.
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Play off teams are often under prepared for the following season as they cannot team build until well into June. Perhaps anotIiher season in the Championship where Dean can move on many of our underperformers and bring in players who can flourish in his system will be a better long term bet.
Also the result today was a fair reflection of the game.
I understand what you are saying, but if in May we are at Wembley beating Forest 5-4 in the play off final with 5 minutes to go I may beg to differ.
nah. Albion please. that ****** lepkowski is on twitter calling our fans idiots for the Ron Saunders display
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We won't know if the kids are good enough if we never give them a chance. You'll never convince me that O'Hare would be as monumentally useless as Hogan though.
The kids thing is pissing me off right now. We have a very good academy and kids that deserve a chance. Leeds brought on an 18 year old at HT and his goal changed the entire game. Why we keep persisting with the likes of Whelan and others is baffling. Throw them in and make them the future.
Ironically i think if Smith brings in some players next month, the kids may start to get more of a run. I'm not sure its a great idea to bring young players into a situation where we're so flakey defensively.
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Hutton still being a first choice full back says it all.
Elmo being anywhere near the First XI says a lot too.
Yes, yes and er yes.
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Seems to be a lot of scapegoating going on, the usual suspects Nyland, Whelan, Hourahane etc. getting stick that I think is ill deserved. I thought they were all ok. I think criticism of Smith is also a bit OTT he can't help the shite defence he inherited and the fact AT is injured. Leeds played well today but I thought we did too at times at least. The loss was largely down to piss poor defending by one player in particular, Elmo. No manager can legislate for one experienced player having two brain farts like that, but who do we replace him with? As for those saying we won't make the play-offs, jesus get a grip. We've lost one game in a very difficult 6 game run with a threadbare defence, have a chance to strengthen in January and a much easier run of games coming up. I think we'll comfortably make the play-offs.
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Got back just now.
Daughter’s first game today, by massive coincidence my very first game was v Leeds years ago.
Groans around when Whelen was announced on the team sheet.
McGinn was absolutely superb but can’t carry the whole midfield all the time.
Time and again Hutton was bypassed like a dog running past a letterbox, absolutely shite.
They are good but we were 2-0 up and a bit more clinical and it’s 4-0 going into the break.
Before the match I thought this was a must win as the top 4 are pulling clear week after week. Gutted to lose that so at this point in time top 2 looks gone.
Adomah should have come on instead of Hogan.
Some beautiful play for our 2 goals.
Elmo-Chester-bree-Hutton axis is laughable, major surgery.
El Ghazi couldn’t get into the game.
Abrahams was good.
(Sigh)
Feel upset and angry going into Christmas.
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Upset and angry sums up my feelings too.
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We won't know if the kids are good enough if we never give them a chance. You'll never convince me that O'Hare would be as monumentally useless as Hogan though.
The kids thing is pissing me off right now. We have a very good academy and kids that deserve a chance. Leeds brought on an 18 year old at HT and his goal changed the entire game. Why we keep persisting with the likes of Whelan and others is baffling. Throw them in and make them the future.
We’ve all seen plastered over the media the last couple of weeks as to why so few of our young talents haven’t made the transition to the first team. Relentless bullying and demeaning treatment of the kids isn’t the best way to build their confidence.
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Seems to be a lot of scapegoating going on, the usual suspects Nyland, Whelan, Hourahane etc. getting stick that I think is ill deserved. I thought they were all ok. I think criticism of Smith is also a bit OTT he can't help the shite defence he inherited and the fact AT is injured. Leeds played well today but I thought we did too at times at least. The loss was largely down to piss poor defending by one player in particular, Elmo. No manager can legislate for one experienced player having two brain farts like that, but who do we replace him with? As for those saying we won't make the play-offs, jesus get a grip. We've lost one game in a very difficult 6 game run with a threadbare defence, have a chance to strengthen in January and a much easier run of games coming up. I think we'll comfortably make the play-offs.
I'm perfectly satisfied with Smith so far. As you say he's been dealt a shitty hand. Not sure about the play-offs. I think making it is possible atm. Going up via it, i'm not so sure. If he's got the money to do something in January then i see no reason why we won't be in it injuries permitting, but you only have to look at the defence options in the middle atm. You'd want 4 decent centre halves ideally. At the moment we have chester...........
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Play off teams are often under prepared for the following season as they cannot team build until well into June. Perhaps anotIiher season in the Championship where Dean can move on many of our underperformers and bring in players who can flourish in his system will be a better long term bet.
Also the result today was a fair reflection of the game.
I understand what you are saying, but if in May we are at Wembley beating Forest 5-4 in the play off final with 5 minutes to go I may beg to differ.
nah. Albion please. that c*** lepkowski is on twitter calling our fans idiots for the Ron Saunders display
Didn't know there was going to be a tribute for that. I actually did look at my phone to check he hadn't passed away when I saw it tbh.
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We won't know if the kids are good enough if we never give them a chance. You'll never convince me that O'Hare would be as monumentally useless as Hogan though.
The kids thing is pissing me off right now. We have a very good academy and kids that deserve a chance. Leeds brought on an 18 year old at HT and his goal changed the entire game. Why we keep persisting with the likes of Whelan and others is baffling. Throw them in and make them the future.
We’ve all seen plastered over the media the last couple of weeks as to why so few of our young talents haven’t made the transition to the first team. Relentless bullying and demeaning treatment of the kids isn’t the best way to build their confidence.
They need loans. Green came in and looked decent initally but then got injured and then looked way off the pace when he played a few games start of the season.
Anyway him playing regularly at top of table Pompey will be far more beneficial than the odd bench cameo here.
O'Hare should be loaned out to league 1 in January like he should've been last season. Remember this did Grealish the world of good when he went to Notts County.
Same for Rushian Hepburn-Murphy if I didn't dream he existed.
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Today was disappointing but nothing will ever top the infamous 15-0 over xmas 2012. That genuinely did ruin xmas for me that year and I normally don't go OTT about these things.
After play off final I was over it in two days.
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Play off teams are often under prepared for the following season as they cannot team build until well into June. Perhaps anotIiher season in the Championship where Dean can move on many of our underperformers and bring in players who can flourish in his system will be a better long term bet.
Also the result today was a fair reflection of the game.
I understand what you are saying, but if in May we are at Wembley beating Forest 5-4 in the play off final with 5 minutes to go I may beg to differ.
nah. Albion please. that c*** lepkowski is on twitter calling our fans idiots for the Ron Saunders display
Didn't know there was going to be a tribute for that. I actually did look at my phone to check he hadn't passed away when I saw it tbh.
And I did, I didn't have a clue about it.
As for the game, as daft as it sounds, maybe we went two goals up too early. We then had 70 mins to see the game out and under Smith and his philosophy, that sometimes is going to be a problem. The defence was a tad depleted yes but we let in 5 at home against Forest as well. Today is one we need to learn from if we're going to go up.
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One of the really sick making things about the last 2 seasons is the apparent absence of decent kids who can do a job for us in the championship. Disgraceful really when you think of our size and the history of the academy.
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There’s having a philosophy and then there’s being naive. It would be mad to criticise Smith at this stage given the hand he’s playing. But I’d be surprised if he wasn’t thinking 2 goals up against the best team in the league with a makeshift defence we could have tried to lock that down.
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Who'd be a manager, when I saw the team sheet thought we would struggle but for the first half hour we got the better of their defence but they are a very good championship side and once their midfield got control we struggled. No blame on Nyland today thought he did okay but as others have said both our fullbacks gave their wingers far to much space to operate in. Smith will know where we need to strengthen and hopefully we will get a few in. Although we were knackered in the last fifteen minutes we still attacked and took the game to them isn't that what we wanted from our manager.
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One of the really sick making things about the last 2 seasons is the apparent absence of decent kids who can do a job for us in the championship. Disgraceful really when you think of our size and the history of the academy.
Dean Smith evidently doesnt rate the current crop too highly given the lack of game time afforded to them,.
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There’s having a philosophy and then there’s being naive. It would be mad to criticise Smith at this stage given the hand he’s playing. But I’d be surprised if he wasn’t thinking 2 goals up against the best team in the league with a makeshift defence we could have tried to lock that down.
I'm not suggesting lock it down as such but as refreshing as it is to see us try to win the game, sometimes it may be worth taking the point. For example, I didn't see the point in bringing Hogan on. Davis may have been a better bet to win us a few free kicks. Maybe I'm being a tad harsh on Smith though because he's been a breath of fresh air overall.
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It was all my fault, I was just commenting how Elmo was playing quite well and Leeds hadn’t got any change out of him when he was skinned alive for the first goal. Sorry everybody.
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You are absolutely right about bringing on Davis. He creates problems for an opposition defence, Hogan threatens nothing. Smith had a bad day today. He will learn from it.
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There’s having a philosophy and then there’s being naive. It would be mad to criticise Smith at this stage given the hand he’s playing. But I’d be surprised if he wasn’t thinking 2 goals up against the best team in the league with a makeshift defence we could have tried to lock that down.
to be honest, even with last seasons defence and keeper, I think we would struggle to keep out goals.
Big problem for me is in midfield, workrate and also mobility a huge issue with nearly all our options. Mobility can only fixed with recruitment but Smith has failed to rectify some bone idle laziness in some of our players.
McGinn for all his talent, doesnt do anywhere near enough without the ball for me. Hourihane, fine goal and assist again today, but without the ball is a passenger. Whelan is a solid professional but isnt mobile enough to cover all in front of him. Kodjia, Bolasie and El Ghazi out wide are getting away with providing little or no cover out wide, remember Snodgrass and Admoah last season in comparison. We simply cant afford that yet it continues to be tolerated by Smith.
Leeds first goal today, cracking goal but firstly, Elmo has no support. Then he shows him inside stupidly, Bree didnt know what to do. Cracking finish. Second goal, Hutton obliterated in the air. Really should have backed Jansson to score in the air today. Third goal, Elmo got himself into a fine covering position, heading it out for corner was the safe option or else back to keeper, suspect he got caught in two minds and did neither. Ridiculous header to edge of box. Decent finish by Roofe though its one Id have fancied Johnstone to have saved as wasnt hit with outstanding pace.
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It was a Bruce style performance, is this the first time under Smith when we have not tried to play out from the back.?
Smith does deserve criticism, we are 2 nil up at home and get to half time and the problems with them getting at our full backs was there for all to see.
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Is there not a wall at Bodymoor Heath that Hourainne can kick a ball at and learn to use this right foot? Not much to ask for for a professional footballer on £££ each week. After he masters that perhaps he can learn to tackle.
Hutton.... for all the Cafu shite the fans chant he is utterly shite. All the first half he got away with hugging his marker in the box to avoid them scoring. Not the second half.
El alwhatshit........ 5 points lost due to him. In the last two games. Where would I play him? I wouldn't.
Leeds went toe to toe with us in the second half and they found our week link. Shite full backs.
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Hutton still being a first choice full back says it all.
Elmo being anywhere near the First XI says a lot too.
He has now given the opposition three goals in two games, pretty impressive!
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Their first goal reminded me of Huttons against the Blues, Elmo just backed off him, and Bree never went close enough. An upgrade on either of those two, and we stop that goal.
Their third was teed up on a plate for Roofe to hit. A poor defensive header by Elmo.
I expect us to add a couple of decent defenders and kick on in January.
Dean Smith knows it too.
We were beaten by the better team, it just feels harder to take after being 2-0 up.
Still I'm glad we were still going for the 3 points at the end rather than settling for the draw.
In Dean we trust.
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I was pretty miffed at the end but the best team definitely won. A few stand out points:
Our defenc is weak but we don’t give our full backs enough protection. Bolassie and Kodjia aren’t wide players of the workaholic variety.
Leeds did their homework and stopped us playing from the back. Our goal kicks were invariably won by their defenders.
All through the game Abraham, one of our tallest players, was marking the near post at corners. Completely wrong IMHO, particularly with a players as good in the air as Jansen ( 2 goals in 3 games at Villa Park now?).
Each of our substitutions made us progressively weaker. All 3of them played poorly.
Abysmal finishing - Kodjia hitting over the bar and then Bolassie making some pathetic flick attempt in the box just after half time when we were still leading 2-0. A third goal would have made a big difference.
We had them penned in the corner 5 minutes into injury time and two errors and 15 seconds later we conceded a soppy goal. Poor game management.
I actually thought Whelan played well but Hourihane offers little unless he is scoring goals ( a slightly strange criticism, I know). Our midfield lacks dynamism, is one paced and we suffered today.
Leeds are the best team I have seen this season. Their use of the whole pitch, pace and forward movement off the ball were beyond anything i have seen so far.
Play offs are possible but at the moment we are a poor imitation of a Kevin Keegan team.
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Very bloody angry, automatic places have gone. Dean, his coaches & the players need to learn to see out games, to many points have been dropped from good positions. Today’s 2nd half was bloody stupid!!
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I love Smith
but the only thing I have a problem with is his insistence on playing the Bruce old stagers all the time, he has taken no risks at all with any of the younger players not even for a second
Leeds played us with a lot younger side today, and outclassed us
I don’t know if we have anyone good enough but we will never know as long as he keeps on with Whelan, BB, Hourahain, Taylor, Elmo, etc and Lansbury and Hogan are not the answer either
they aren’t good enough he needs to shake things up a bit
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The most important quality a manager can have is self examination. He must be able to identify his mistakes and the courage to correct them. The game today was a season changing pivotal game. Dean Smith came up short and so did a lot of the players. I believe he is an intelligent, honest man who will take on board lessons from today's bitter defeat.
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Back to the old Villa in the second half. So frustrating. We are trying to shake off almost a decade of uncertainty and complete lack of confidence, it won't change in three months. Get that new goalie in for QPR onwards, Tommy back, and that left back geezer he wants, we'll be a different proposition.
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Leeds looked miles ahead of us. So much pace and width in their team and were easily the best team we've played this season. They will go up easily.
On the other hand, we're going nowhere with that defence. Absolute shite
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Leeds looked miles ahead of us. So much pace and width in their team and were easily the best team we've played this season. They will go up easily.
On the other hand, we're going nowhere with that defence. Absolute shite
Thank you to Steve Bruce for that.
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Sorry, I read the first page or so and now this.
Mutual feeling of outrage and shared regret with those who were there today.
Stunned when I heard 2-0 had been comprehensively lost and turned into 3-2.
Can’t we buy somebody in the transfer window?
Or more than one?
It’s what the transfer window is for and Deano could introduce a player or two that he actually likes.
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Not going to comment on the game as most of it has already been said. Just wanted to add: What is the point of Scott Hogan?
Has been absolutely useless. Comes on for the last 10 and runs around a bit, usually nowhere near the ball. A 12 year old can do that.
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Agree about Hogan he has been given a few chances coming on late and delivered nothing. Adomah would have given us more defensive cover as I noticed on a few occasions the wingers were not covering hard enough, that's where I think we really missed Grealish and his ability to run and cover all game hope he's back soon.
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And exactly what do people expect from Hogan when he played about 30 mins this season?
He is nowhere near match fit and the only way you get that is by playing games.
We need to consider where the front 3 (permed from) Kodjia, Bolasie, adomah and Tammy, is set in stone, or whether we need to freshen things up and use the squad and with the number of games coming thick and fast, maybe that’s an option?
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I think Nyland has improved in the last couple of matches since finding out he is about to lose his place.
A back line of Taylor, Elphick (where is he now), Terry (if he could be persuaded to put his boots back on) and Bree (in his correct position) couldn't have done any worse than that. Whelan is no Jedimak. When he's back the pressure on the defence will improve.
Keep the faith. Look forward to beating Albion at Wembley in May.
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I think we need to remember that Smith is using Bruce's squad.
He's trying his style with players he didn't choose, and they are coming up short and will be replaced. See the goalkeeper as evidence of action.
Chester is having a very bad season, I don't think he he can play Smith's style, his passing is very poor. Tuanzebe was missed today, Bree wasn't match fit and given his lack of appearance on even the subs bench for a while showed he's not ready. Full backs aren't good enough without better players around them. I think that with a decent pair of commanding centre backs the full backs would do ok.
Midfield is ok but nothing more; going forward it's great but defensively it's just not good enough and with the players behind it that's a disaster (I was going to say waiting to happen but it doesn't seem to wait).
Should have done better.
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I'd just like to add, judging by my retweets and likes from Leeds fans this evening, that any and all misfortune they have will be taken with good humour, grace and forbearance, because that's apparently what was expected of Villa fans today. So, y'know, hope they don't bottle it again or anything.
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I'd just like to add, judging by my retweets and likes from Leeds fans this evening, that any and all misfortune they have will be taken with good humour, grace and forbearance, because that's apparently what was expected of Villa fans today. So, y'know, hope they don't bottle it again or anything.
Leeds can fuck off.
And their pondlife, throwback fans.
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Bree wasn't match fit and given his lack of appearance on even the subs bench for a while showed he's not ready. Full backs aren't good enough without better players around them.
Bree coming here has been a complete waste of time. He's never been given a run in the side and when he plays, its normally as a last minute change, or out of position. It's not as if we've even loaned him out to get some game time.
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We were shit. They were good. Kodjia, Elmo, Hutton and El Ghazi were mince. My turncoat nephew roared Villa on all game and then decided he was still a Leeds fan in injury time.
As much as I'd rather sever all three of my testicles than spend any time with them, I thought the Leeds fans made a lot of noise. Having said that, and I hope I'm wrong, but did I hear them singing in support of Tommy Robinson at one point (after we sang for Tammy Abraham)? If so they can obviously fuck back off to the sea.
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Those puzzled by Smith's lack of using the young players - he has inherited a bloated senior squad, all on big money for this level and has been told/decided to give them all a crack of the whip where possible (ie everyone except Micah). We may not see the kids given a run until he has sifted through those he wants to discard of the senior crop.
Bolassie's "effort" that went embarrassingly wide - he clearly had little confidence in his left foot to use it which is pretty disappointing at this level.
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It is a worrying concept that we might be back in the for want of a better word politics of squad use. The notion being that we have paid and are paying a lot of money for players so we have to showcase them with game time to enhance their resale value. If that is happening it should not be, because all the club focus should be on building upward momentum not wheeling and dealing. Cheque book bashing strategy is straight out of the Steve Bruce playbook and has got us where we are today.
Having slept on it, yesterday's disaster is just as painful now as it was yesterday afternoon. Too many old demons rose up again that I thought the arrival of Dean Smith would blow away. That Leeds game I fear will go down as season defining. In years to come it will be the Villa game at Christmas on a foul day in front of a full house when we threw away a two goal lead and the 2018/19 season.
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We were shit. They were good. Kodjia, Elmo, Hutton and El Ghazi were mince. My turncoat nephew roared Villa on all game and then decided he was still a Leeds fan in injury time.
As much as I'd rather sever all three of my testicles than spend any time with them, I thought the Leeds fans made a lot of noise. Having said that, and I hope I'm wrong, but did I hear them singing in support of Tommy Robinson at one point (after we sang for Tammy Abraham)? If so they can obviously fuck back off to the sea.
Kodjia was excellent.
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Kodjia was our best player.
What on earth was going through Smith's head when he took him off I have no idea. Not only was he excellent going forwards, but he stopped their full back crossing the half way line
When he went off they doubled up on Elmo, who you could replace with anybody out of the crowd and not see any drop in defensive ability.
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One thing that worries me about Dean Smith is that his teams seem to concede a awful lot of stoppage time goals Off hand i can think of Villa and Leeds both scoring very late on this season against his Brentford team and of course the Albion and Leeds in the last few games against Villa .I was praying for the referee to blow his whistle as i just knew if anyone was going to score it was Leeds .When you have the likes of Elmo,Hutton and Taylor as your full backs your always likely to concede
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Kodjia also does a lot of effective work in our penalty area from corners and set pieces.
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We were shit. They were good. Kodjia, Elmo, Hutton and El Ghazi were mince. My turncoat nephew roared Villa on all game and then decided he was still a Leeds fan in injury time.
As much as I'd rather sever all three of my testicles than spend any time with them, I thought the Leeds fans made a lot of noise. Having said that, and I hope I'm wrong, but did I hear them singing in support of Tommy Robinson at one point (after we sang for Tammy Abraham)? If so they can obviously fuck back off to the sea.
Kodjia was excellent.
Kodjia made the goal for Hourihane, had their left back on toast and helped out a poor Elmo defensively first half. Admittedly he faded a little in the second half but he was better than El Gazi when he came on.
Where we lost the game (imho) was the fact that they switched Alioski out wide and had Hernandez and forshaw running the game. Those two dominated late on and played the ball wide to attack our increasingly vulnerable full backs. Smith put on BB to counter the problem on the right (no accounting for the complete fuck up by Elmo) and it looked as though it was going to be a draw.
Having said all that the lack of trust between Elmo and his keeper was clear in the first half when Elmo kicked the ball almost out of Nylands hands in a bit of a scramble in the box.
Two tough games against two decent sides (Stoke and the Dirty Leeds) but we will strengthen and improve. Thank you Mr Bruce for your lack of forward thinking and possibly condemning us to another bloody year in this league.
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Despite us going two ahead I thought they were the better side by some distance with no’s 10, 7 and 47 being particularly impressive. We struggled for energy in midfield and they always had forward passing options whereas we relied on a bit of brilliance which became rarer and rarer. Strangely I thought our best period was the start of the second half before they scored.
The makeshift back four looked exactly that, all three goals were perfectly preventable, Elmos defensive performance was unforgivable for a player of his experience, Brees more understandable given the lack of faith shown in him beforehand.
A few doubts about Dean as well, we needed more energy in midfield and all three of his subs looked unprepared. Kodja and Bollassie had run out of steam and weren’t tracking back and the obvious sub was Adomah, if he wasn’t fit enough for 20 mins then he shouldn’t have been on the bench. We just looked far too open against their mobility
Much too do in the transfer window, we need new defenders and freshening up in midfield.
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There's only going to be so much we can do this transfer window. If we leave it with a better keeper and more credible options in defence I'll be OK
Think it will be next summer before we can sort the midfield - exchanging jedinak and whelan for more mobile technical types - plus we'll have to get new players in for the loanees leaving
There'll be lots to do
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We're a shambles at the back and we all know it. Thanks Bruce you fucking moron. A huge cull of players is required if we can find any takers for them. Hutton, Taylor, Elmo, Whelan, Barney, Hogan, Jedinak and that's just for starters. Every substitution weakened us to the point where we were there for the taking. And so it was to be. For the second time in 2 weeks Elmo gifts the opposition a goal at a vital time. It's not all doom and gloom though. Our attacking prowess is as good as any in this league. I don't think I've ever seen so many glum faces leaving Villa Park. Merry fucking Christmas Mr Bruce.
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Pray for a left back and a left sided centre half as soon as possible in January. Then Chester can switch and I think will improve (won't be hard will it) and Hutton can go back to being a mediocre right back rather than a dire left back.
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Our wingers didn't really double up and cover the full backs. Adomah is very good at that. Their wingers had far too much space to exploit. Last season Snodgrass covered his full back brilliantly.
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Well after a bit of reflection you have to say fair play to Leeds, much the better team.
Positives for us
Tammy - another goal and good effort
SJM - constant non stop work and trying to do the work of three men as Whelan and Hourihane went missing.
Kodjia - looked a threat but tired quickly, was he ill?
Negatives for us
The whole defence - Nyland as jittery as ever, Chester lacking leadership, Bree little boy lost, Hutton meh, Elmo an utter disgrace (3 goals over the last 2 games his fault.)
Whelan/Hourihane - passive, lacked energy and drive and didn’t work as a unit.
Bolasie - tricks aside what did he do.
Dean Smith - out thought by Bielsa today and didn’t seem to have a tactical answer to the problem posed. Their press forces us to go long which meant we never got our passing game going.
We desperately need a left sided centre back and left back early in January. Thanks Steve you potato headed moron.
Oh and I hesitate to say it but are we a one man team, there was a massive Jack shaped hole in that midfield today. No tempo or consistency to our play.
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The only players who played yesterday that I would certainly keep are SJM and Chester - and for the latter, only if he is played in his rightful position. I might be tempted to keep Kodjia but the more I see, the more apparent it is how much of what pace he had, has been reduced by those injuries. As a consequence, I also think he's carrying too much weight. Bree might be ok as a squad player at right back.
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As we are discussing the relative merits of the coaching staff, you have to say that the expected defensive organisational improvements expected when John Terry returned, simply haven’t happened. I’m really not sure about that semi Zonal defensive on corners where Chester stands alone on the six yard line and allows big players to attack the ball.
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Two thing about defending corners. Nobody on both posts and we dont have players attacking the ball. The new keeper might change this.
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We're a shambles at the back and we all know it. Thanks Bruce you fucking moron. A huge cull of players is required if we can find any takers for them. Hutton, Taylor, Elmo, Whelan, Barney, Hogan, Jedinak and that's just for starters. Every substitution weakened us to the point where we were there for the taking. And so it was to be. For the second time in 2 weeks Elmo gifts the opposition a goal at a vital time. It's not all doom and gloom though. Our attacking prowess is as good as any in this league. I don't think I've ever seen so many glum faces leaving Villa Park. Merry fucking Christmas Mr Bruce.
So many posts on this thread that I agree with but the above sums it up nicely for me.
Absolutely gutted.
Merry Christmas all
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Elmo simply can’t allow the lad so much time and space to come inside but once he had, Bree (I think) has to close the space down. My girls team would have shown more aggression and commitment.
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It is a worrying concept that we might be back in the for want of a better word politics of squad use. The notion being that we have paid and are paying a lot of money for players so we have to showcase them with game time to enhance their resale value. If that is happening it should not be, because all the club focus should be on building upward momentum not wheeling and dealing. Cheque book bashing strategy is straight out of the Steve Bruce playbook and has got us where we are today.
Having slept on it, yesterday's disaster is just as painful now as it was yesterday afternoon. Too many old demons rose up again that I thought the arrival of Dean Smith would blow away. That Leeds game I fear will go down as season defining. In years to come it will be the Villa game at Christmas on a foul day in front of a full house when we threw away a two goal lead and the 2018/19 season.
I think that's a bit harsh Brian. It's a major rebuilding job and no one game is going to rule us in/out of promotion at the moment. With the best will in the world this side is not the same one that got to the Play-off final, and i can only speak personally but when we ran out for the 1st game of this season i wasn't looking at our squad and thinking "now there's a team a shoe-in for promotion". With the loans clicking last season i think problems with the team were rather papered over to an extent, and with snodgrass, terry, Johnstone and Gabban all gone that's a third of that team missing. Add Grealish and Tuanzabe injured and we currently have 3 players who played a major part last season. I think we just have to hold our nerve at the moment and given the right signings re-assess where we are in February. I see no reason given re-inforcements we can't grab a play-off place, and if we don't then i'd still have Smith ahead of schedule. And if we did go-up, the fact remains come the end of another play-off final, Smith would still be looking at having to replace or sign at least another 9 first team players on loan or out of contract. If that isn't damming indictment to the mess Bruce left us in, I don't know what is.
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But for Elmo's cock up it would've been a decent point in the circumstances. Against the best side seen at Villa Park this season, without our most important attacking and ball retaining midfielder, a rookie CB and a makeshift one. Smith made poor subs but we were competitive at times and played our part in a game where I was fearful that we would be steamrollered. The nature of defeat was hard to take but I believe in Dean's philosophy, he needs better players and has already started that process.
I can't give up already, plenty of football to play.
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We're a shambles at the back and we all know it. Thanks Bruce you fucking moron. A huge cull of players is required if we can find any takers for them. Hutton, Taylor, Elmo, Whelan, Barney, Hogan, Jedinak and that's just for starters. Every substitution weakened us to the point where we were there for the taking. And so it was to be. For the second time in 2 weeks Elmo gifts the opposition a goal at a vital time. It's not all doom and gloom though. Our attacking prowess is as good as any in this league. I don't think I've ever seen so many glum faces leaving Villa Park. Merry fucking Christmas Mr Bruce.
So many posts on this thread that I agree with but the above sums it up nicely for me.
Absolutely gutted.
Merry Christmas all
I agree too. We look great going forward but awful at the back. You could see the the defence had no confidence in the keeper. Chester's distribution was awful too. Thank God only 1 more game with Nyland.
As for Leeds, much better than us? I didn't see anything that showed that. Not as good as Wolves last season. Their defence looked poor at times, we created enough chances. They are much better than anything we have played on the tricky run of games.
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As we are discussing the relative merits of the coaching staff, you have to say that the expected defensive organisational improvements expected when John Terry returned, simply haven’t happened. I’m really not sure about that semi Zonal defensive on corners where Chester stands alone on the six yard line and allows big players to attack the ball.
It's a good point on Terry
The thing is, he spent his whole career playing in a Chelsea side with a low block, and a great defensive midfilder in front of him
I wonder how expert he is at coaching defending in a side that plays the complete opposite way
Either way nothing explains why elmo didn't just stick that fucking cross behind
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Despite us going two ahead I thought they were the better side by some distance with no’s 10, 7 and 47 being particularly impressive. We struggled for energy in midfield and they always had forward passing options whereas we relied on a bit of brilliance which became rarer and rarer. Strangely I thought our best period was the start of the second half before they scored.
The makeshift back four looked exactly that, all three goals were perfectly preventable, Elmos defensive performance was unforgivable for a player of his experience, Brees more understandable given the lack of faith shown in him beforehand.
A few doubts about Dean as well, we needed more energy in midfield and all three of his subs looked unprepared. Kodja and Bollassie had run out of steam and weren’t tracking back and the obvious sub was Adomah, if he wasn’t fit enough for 20 mins then he shouldn’t have been on the bench. We just looked far too open against their mobility
Much too do in the transfer window, we need new defenders and freshening up in midfield.
Have to say I was a bit disappointed (even if it was a throw away comment) in Deano's pop at Leeds overcelebrating the winner. When you've come from two down to win away in the last minute, your hardly gonna trot slowly back to the middle to restart the game.
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It is a worrying concept that we might be back in the for want of a better word politics of squad use. The notion being that we have paid and are paying a lot of money for players so we have to showcase them with game time to enhance their resale value. If that is happening it should not be, because all the club focus should be on building upward momentum not wheeling and dealing. Cheque book bashing strategy is straight out of the Steve Bruce playbook and has got us where we are today.
Having slept on it, yesterday's disaster is just as painful now as it was yesterday afternoon. Too many old demons rose up again that I thought the arrival of Dean Smith would blow away. That Leeds game I fear will go down as season defining. In years to come it will be the Villa game at Christmas on a foul day in front of a full house when we threw away a two goal lead and the 2018/19 season.
Really?! It's all a bit unneccesarily doom and gloom, we've got 23 games still to play and if we carry on as we have been under Smith then we'll make the top 6 (that's just a simple points projection). I know it's gutting but if we win our next three - which is entirely possible - we'll probably be in the play-offs going into the New Year. UTV
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...although I always time extra time properly, & they celebrated for 1.47, but only 1minute was added on.
When 5 minutes were announced I felt the crowd didn’t know whether to be pleased or alarmed, but there was certainly no major groans & questioning, as if we were ‘hanging on’. At full time the game could have had any result, and I think we have to remember that we were totally in that game despite Leeds being the best side we’ve seen here by some distance and us having some critical injuries down the spine of the team.
It’s a bad result because we were 2 up and because of the way other results have gone, but I still feel that we are moving in a positive direction.
Usually, in recent times, when we mess up in front of a full house it’s in a way that means those extra fans won’t be back for a while, but with the entertainment value yesterday - many of those will be more regular visitors.
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I agree amfy as disappointing as yesterday was theres a lot of very melodramatic hogwash on here. Everyone can see where we have improved since Smith came in and where we are still deficient.
It might not be until next season that we see the full force of the new Villa though. Leeds were just too good for us tactically if nothing else and sometimes you have to say fair enough.
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Disappointed obviously about yesterday's game, not least because I didn't give us much hope with a bruce inspired back 5, but Deano didn't have much choice. Typical Villa we go 2 up raising hopes but typical Villa we lose to a 95th minute goal. Scapegoating individual players is pointless and counter productive. I'm convinced if we still had bruce we would be fighting relegation. The way he deliberately and calculatingly left our defence is nothing short of disgraceful and unprofessional. His negligence in this cannot be justified by his pathetic mouthpiece alex. Contrastingly the professional Smith has gone about his business very well keeping us in touch with the playoffs, knowing that his repost to bruce will come in the transfer window. Dean knows what he's got to do and I wouldn't be surprised to see at least 4 defenders come in (a first choice lb and possibly a back up lb depending on taylor's injury. A first choice left cb and a back up left cb and possibly a first choice rb) Chester needs to resume his right cb position with axel no better than his back up. Elmo needs to go and perhaps bree needs to be loaned out with hutton back up to a new rb. I would have said rdl could have filled this role but some dickhead loaned him out to australia. Taking the positives from the way Dean has transferred us as an attacking force is what I'm doing this morning, whilst hoping my patience re defensive positions will be rewarded come January. UTV and merry christmas!
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I hadn't realised that our game against Swansea is on the telly. We are still a massive draw but I think we have to change our 'divine right' attitude as I think this is why it hasn't worked out for some of our players at Villa. The clubs who have been promoted are been better TEAMS than we are at the moment. We have some fantastic quality but we are way too individual to get promoted at the moment. Leeds showed us that yesterday. A good, young, hard working side who outplayed us, much as I hate to say it. I was surprised rather than expectant when we went 2-0 up, I breathed a sigh of relief when the board went up at half time and it was only one minute added on. Smith HAS improved us but needs more consistency from the players and also needs one or two replacements.
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Leeds were the best team we have played by a country mile. They were happy for a point in injury time but got lucky with some dreadful decision making by Elmo. It will be really interesting to see the re shaped defence under Deano. The GK situation is already hopefully! sorted. Two defenders minimum and then a push into the top 6. Onwards to Swansea on Boxing Day. At least the bridge is now free which saves some money on the trip to Wales.
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I hadn't realised that our game against Swansea is on the telly. We are still a massive draw but I think we have to change our 'divine right' attitude as I think this is why it hasn't worked out for some of our players at Villa. The clubs who have been promoted are been better TEAMS than we are at the moment. We have some fantastic quality but we are way too individual to get promoted at the moment. Leeds showed us that yesterday. A good, young, hard working side who outplayed us, much as I hate to say it. I was surprised rather than expectant when we went 2-0 up, I breathed a sigh of relief when the board went up at half time and it was only one minute added on. Smith HAS improved us but needs more consistency from the players and also needs one or two replacements.
The Boxing Day game is on telly?
What channel, I can’t find it.
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I hadn't realised that our game against Swansea is on the telly. We are still a massive draw but I think we have to change our 'divine right' attitude as I think this is why it hasn't worked out for some of our players at Villa. The clubs who have been promoted are been better TEAMS than we are at the moment. We have some fantastic quality but we are way too individual to get promoted at the moment. Leeds showed us that yesterday. A good, young, hard working side who outplayed us, much as I hate to say it. I was surprised rather than expectant when we went 2-0 up, I breathed a sigh of relief when the board went up at half time and it was only one minute added on. Smith HAS improved us but needs more consistency from the players and also needs one or two replacements.
The Boxing Day game is on telly?
What channel, I can’t find it.
I am watching SSN now and waiting for it to come back around on the right hand side of the screen. It was defo on there, whether the red button jobby or actually on properly, I'm not sure.
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its on the Red button
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It was all my fault, I was just commenting how Elmo was playing quite well and Leeds hadn’t got any change out of him when he was skinned alive for the first goal. Sorry everybody.
You bar steward. Having done this dreadful deed you better make sure you send me an even more expensive gift than you normally do tomorrow😡
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We were shit. They were good. Kodjia, Elmo, Hutton and El Ghazi were mince. My turncoat nephew roared Villa on all game and then decided he was still a Leeds fan in injury time.
As much as I'd rather sever all three of my testicles than spend any time with them, I thought the Leeds fans made a lot of noise. Having said that, and I hope I'm wrong, but did I hear them singing in support of Tommy Robinson at one point (after we sang for Tammy Abraham)? If so they can obviously fuck back off to the sea.
I was amazed at how subdued the Leeds support was - until they scored. This from an upper Holte perspective. They sang in the first minute then nothing until the 56th when they got a goal back. After that they made good noise.
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Two thing about defending corners. Nobody on both posts and we dont have players attacking the ball. The new keeper might change this.
I said that yesterday for their first corner. Abraham marking the near post just feels wrong to me. Have him mark and compete v one of their tall players.
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I disagree with people criticising Smith for being a bad loser. I'm a fucking terribly bad loser and given he's one of us, it will hurt more.
Show me a good loser and I'll show you the real loser.
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Disappointed losing especially after being 2-0 up but defensive mistakes cost us and Leeds were very good second half we must put that right on boxing day and get back on track.
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Disappointed losing especially after being 2-0 up but defensive mistakes cost us and Leeds were very good second half we must put that right on boxing day and get back on track.
Indeed.
Thankfully I've calmed down after yesterday's defensive calamities, so I'm hopeful of a positive reaction against The Jacks. As infuriating as the disparity between our attack & defence is, I'm grateful for DS for at the very least providing a brand of football that doesn't drain the life out of all n sundry. Given time and a few transfer windows, I have every confidence that he'll build the kind of squad that will implement his footballing philosophy.
So UTV & a Happy Crimbo to one & all
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Never felt comfortable with that one even when we were 2 up. Leeds were very good to be fair, I've thought all season that they would run out of steam but having seen them in the flesh I think they're the real deal.
Coming through this tricky set of fixtures with just the 1 defeat though, and if it wasn't for two injury time goals we'd be in the play off places.
Going forward into an 'easier' set of fixtures now so hopefully this is were we make up ground on those above us.
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I said in the match thread I felt sick. I knew, as we probably all did, that Leeds were going ot get back into it.
They were wasting time near their own corner flag then went up the field and scored a fucking gift.
Our defence just can't do what's expected of them and as there isn't a proper leader organising them, they fall apart. Terry would have kept their shape, as, I believe Collins would have. Chester just isn't a leader out there.
We missed Grealish keeping the ball and calming it a little. It's another lesson, and with some signings we'll be ok, for Play-Offs certainly and whilst Auto-Promotion is getting a little further, it's not impossible as we're only half way through.
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don’t think we would have lost if Grealish had played
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Never felt comfortable with that one even when we were 2 up. Leeds were very good to be fair, I've thought all season that they would run out of steam but having seen them in the flesh I think they're the real deal.
Coming through this tricky set of fixtures with just the 1 defeat though, and if it wasn't for two injury time goals we'd be in the play off places.
Going forward into an 'easier' set of fixtures now so hopefully this is were we make up ground on those above us.
Yeah it was a bit like a boxing match where one of the boxers puts the opponent down a couple of times in the early rounds, but never really looks in control and looks like they could be put down themselves at any point.
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I haven’t read all the posts but having played most of my (albeit very low level) football in defence our back 4 get little or no protection from the midfield. Yes they should do the basics better but they’re often outnumbered while one of the midfielders either waves a foot at the opposition (yes I’m looking at you Hourihane you show pony) or watches as the run past (Kodak, Bolasi, El Ghazi).
What happened to tracking back or stoping runs, that’s our real issue
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It is a worrying concept that we might be back in the for want of a better word politics of squad use. The notion being that we have paid and are paying a lot of money for players so we have to showcase them with game time to enhance their resale value. If that is happening it should not be, because all the club focus should be on building upward momentum not wheeling and dealing. Cheque book bashing strategy is straight out of the Steve Bruce playbook and has got us where we are today.
Having slept on it, yesterday's disaster is just as painful now as it was yesterday afternoon. Too many old demons rose up again that I thought the arrival of Dean Smith would blow away. That Leeds game I fear will go down as season defining. In years to come it will be the Villa game at Christmas on a foul day in front of a full house when we threw away a two goal lead and the 2018/19 season.
I think that's a bit harsh Brian. It's a major rebuilding job and no one game is going to rule us in/out of promotion at the moment. With the best will in the world this side is not the same one that got to the Play-off final, and i can only speak personally but when we ran out for the 1st game of this season i wasn't looking at our squad and thinking "now there's a team a shoe-in for promotion". With the loans clicking last season i think problems with the team were rather papered over to an extent, and with snodgrass, terry, Johnstone and Gabban all gone that's a third of that team missing. Add Grealish and Tuanzabe injured and we currently have 3 players who played a major part last season. I think we just have to hold our nerve at the moment and given the right signings re-assess where we are in February. I see no reason given re-inforcements we can't grab a play-off place, and if we don't then i'd still have Smith ahead of schedule. And if we did go-up, the fact remains come the end of another play-off final, Smith would still be looking at having to replace or sign at least another 9 first team players on loan or out of contract. If that isn't damming indictment to the mess Bruce left us in, I don't know what is.
Excellent post in which I mostly agree. I’m not a fan of loan signings though because the heart will enevitably get ripped out of the team if they perform well
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Like previous posters I have calmed down now. Leeds were the best team we have played this season and even when we were two nil up we weren't comfortable. The goals we conceded were shocking from our defensive point of view. Thought Kodjia played well and was surprised when he got subbed. The defence is poor but our midfield, apart from SJM cannot tackle and when we do have possession give the ball away too easily. Still too angry to talk about Elmo. Obviously we miss Jack but we do have players who could step up and cause similar havoc to opposing defences.
After saying that I am thoroughly enjoying our football under Dean Smith. He has done an extraordinary job with the players at his disposal and I fully expect us do reach the playoffs at least, after strengthening in the January window.
The future is bright but Rome wasn't built in a day, patience is the key, in Dean Smith I trust. UTV
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I haven’t read all the posts but having played most of my (albeit very low level) football in defence our back 4 get little or no protection from the midfield. Yes they should do the basics better but they’re often outnumbered while one of the midfielders either waves a foot at the opposition (yes I’m looking at you Hourihane you show pony) or watches as the run past (Kodak, Bolasi, El Ghazi).
What happened to tracking back or stoping runs, that’s our real issue
Am I correct in believing that the 2 wide forwards are responsible for tracking back?
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I haven’t read all the posts but having played most of my (albeit very low level) football in defence our back 4 get little or no protection from the midfield. Yes they should do the basics better but they’re often outnumbered while one of the midfielders either waves a foot at the opposition (yes I’m looking at you Hourihane you show pony) or watches as the run past (Kodak, Bolasi, El Ghazi).
What happened to tracking back or stoping runs, that’s our real issue
Am I correct in believing that the 2 wide forwards are responsible for tracking back?
Yes. It worked very well last season with Snoddy and Albert but then we were generally set up to defend deeper and had a more negative mindset by you know who.
Bolaise is excellent in the opposition half but yes tracking back at full pace isn't one of his strengths. Kodjia a little better.
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I haven’t read all the posts but having played most of my (albeit very low level) football in defence our back 4 get little or no protection from the midfield. Yes they should do the basics better but they’re often outnumbered while one of the midfielders either waves a foot at the opposition (yes I’m looking at you Hourihane you show pony) or watches as the run past (Kodak, Bolasi, El Ghazi).
What happened to tracking back or stoping runs, that’s our real issue
Am I correct in believing that the 2 wide forwards are responsible for tracking back?
There should be more tracking back and the defence looked more solid with Albert playing for that reason. But let's be honest, our full backs are god-awful, massively prone to errors and lapses of concentration, as was shown again yesterday. See also Hutton's pathetic attempt to stop Albion's first goal, Elmo's pen against Stoke, and a fair few other goals.
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we should of taken the point at 2-2 instead we were rushing to take goal kicks throw ins etc.
Leeds wanted to play at a higher tempo. we looked like we were too knackered in the 2nd half to do that so should of just taken the point.
The subs didn't make any impact when Kodjia went off we had nothing up front.
I don't think leeds will win the league I predict they will fall away.
Think we just got caught thinking it was a total must win for top 2. I agree take the point and hope Norwich hit a 1 win in 6 spell in next two months.
Leeds will go up imo. They haven't even got their full team out (no Bamford and Barry Douglas in their 11) yet have now won 6/6 after a dodgy patch which is exactly what you need to do for top 2.
Sorry I know I’m writing this a day after the major disappointment of losing in the way we did. I think a sense of Perspective might be required. It was going to be a toughie against Leeds with a full squad to pick from based on our defensive frailties, to have no Grealish & Axel as well made it daunting ( sorry please don’t compare
Bamford and Douglas to those two ) There’s still 69 points to play for FFS so whilst I accept it’s a tough ask for top two I don’t see ten Brazil’s circa 1970 above us .
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I disagree with people criticising Smith for being a bad loser. I'm a fucking terribly bad loser and given he's one of us, it will hurt more.
Show me a good loser and I'll show you the real loser.
I'm with you on that.
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Yep. Zonal works if you have someone like Laurson and a few kindred spirits. Otherwise they wank out sooner rather than later. The new GK could make a big difference if he whacks a few interlopers early doors and shows them what they will get if they take diabolical liberties.
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Leeds are fucking shit!
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Leeds are fucking shit!
Amen.
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Unfortunately our defence, especially Elmohamady, were shitter.
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Leeds are fucking shit!
Cracked open the Bailey's ?
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The result is irrelevant.
The point made stands firm.
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It's all perception. I think they're a proper club who had a fantastic period and went on their uppers with a massive fan base.
Bit like us.
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I think they're a poxy club that benefitted from a talented man who was also a cheating bastard.
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I think they're a poxy club that benefitted from a talented man who was also a cheating bastard.
Don Revie ?
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I think they're a poxy club that benefitted from a talented man who was also a cheating bastard.
Don Revie ?
Yep.
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Correct.
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We were shit. They were good. Kodjia, Elmo, Hutton and El Ghazi were mince. My turncoat nephew roared Villa on all game and then decided he was still a Leeds fan in injury time.
As much as I'd rather sever all three of my testicles than spend any time with them, I thought the Leeds fans made a lot of noise. Having said that, and I hope I'm wrong, but did I hear them singing in support of Tommy Robinson at one point (after we sang for Tammy Abraham)? If so they can obviously fuck back off to the sea.
I was amazed at how subdued the Leeds support was - until they scored. This from an upper Holte perspective. They sang in the first minute then nothing until the 56th when they got a goal back. After that they made good noise.
I was in the upper Trinity (for the first time in a very long time) and I thought they were as noisy as I can remember an away side being since probably the last time I can remember being in the Trinity!
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I think they're a poxy club that benefitted from a talented man who was also a cheating bastard.
Genuinely why was he a cheating b?
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It's all perception. I think they're a proper club who had a fantastic period and went on their uppers with a massive fan base.
Bit like us.
They are nothing like us.
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We were shit. They were good. Kodjia, Elmo, Hutton and El Ghazi were mince. My turncoat nephew roared Villa on all game and then decided he was still a Leeds fan in injury time.
As much as I'd rather sever all three of my testicles than spend any time with them, I thought the Leeds fans made a lot of noise. Having said that, and I hope I'm wrong, but did I hear them singing in support of Tommy Robinson at one point (after we sang for Tammy Abraham)? If so they can obviously fuck back off to the sea.
I was amazed at how subdued the Leeds support was - until they scored. This from an upper Holte perspective. They sang in the first minute then nothing until the 56th when they got a goal back. After that they made good noise.
I was in the upper Trinity (for the first time in a very long time) and I thought they were as noisy as I can remember an away side being since probably the last time I can remember being in the Trinity!
Stoke were very noisy last week too.
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I know one thing for certain, our ground capacity will need to be increased if and when we get promotion - 41,411 is amazing - 40,000 plus is becoming more the norm. I'm sure our mega rich owners realise this. Imagine the demand in the PL! The ground needs to be increased (if possible) to 52,000 at least.
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We average just over 30k. We need to be going much higher before expanding the ground is a good idea
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Leeds are a 2nd division club. Won barely anything bar a purple patch. And pretend they've won the European Cup.
Fuck off Leeds.
And Merry Christmas you filthy animals.
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lovely to see the spirit of Christmas is alive and well with that one.
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We average just over 30k. We need to be going much higher before expanding the ground is a good idea
I said when and if we get in the Premier League first. Demand will exceed 42k
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I know one thing for certain, our ground capacity will need to be increased if and when we get promotion - 41,411 is amazing - 40,000 plus is becoming more the norm. I'm sure our mega rich owners realise this. Imagine the demand in the PL! The ground needs to be increased (if possible) to 52,000 at least.
That's the long term plan of the new owners but for now rebuilding the squad has to take priority. I'm all in favour of rebuilding the North Stand once the squad is strengthened as it's looking pretty shoddy and outdated. But I'd do it in a way that it could be expanded when the time is right.
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we should of taken the point at 2-2 instead we were rushing to take goal kicks throw ins etc.
Leeds wanted to play at a higher tempo. we looked like we were too knackered in the 2nd half to do that so should of just taken the point.
The subs didn't make any impact when Kodjia went off we had nothing up front.
I don't think leeds will win the league I predict they will fall away.
Think we just got caught thinking it was a total must win for top 2. I agree take the point and hope Norwich hit a 1 win in 6 spell in next two months.
Leeds will go up imo. They haven't even got their full team out (no Bamford and Barry Douglas in their 11) yet have now won 6/6 after a dodgy patch which is exactly what you need to do for top 2.
Sorry I know I’m writing this a day after the major disappointment of losing in the way we did. I think a sense of Perspective might be required. It was going to be a toughie against Leeds with a full squad to pick from based on our defensive frailties, to have no Grealish & Axel as well made it daunting ( sorry please don’t compare
Bamford and Douglas to those two ) There’s still 69 points to play for FFS so whilst I accept it’s a tough ask for top two I don’t see ten Brazil’s circa 1970 above us .
With the injuries it feels like last season. We had won 7 in a row and then lost momemntum when Jack and Adomah got injured against SHA. I'd be more confident of getting closer to top 2 if Grealish return was imminent but seems like he's a fair few weeks away from playing.
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I still have more confidence in the entire senior team of the club to both purchase, dispose of and develop what we’ve got . Glass half full here , but yes I’d obviously wind the clock back two weeks to the Boro, Derby and Albion performances.
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Was just watching again the highlights of the World Cup game Japan vs Belgium. It reminded me so much of our game yesterday vs Leeds and certainly the misery of how it all ended.
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There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Bielsa is using some undetectable form of amphetamine on his players. Or maybe roids. Mad staring eyes, manically munching on power bars and charging around like demented dervishes. Also Alioski has an asymetrical haircut, a sure sign of febrile fuckwittery. Hutton should have chinned the twat when he was fucking around at that throw in.
I reckon they spiked Elmo's half time drink as well with some class of barbiturate. The dopey wassock.