Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: PeterWithesShin on November 28, 2018, 09:41:04 PM
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Wow.
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Are you not entertained?
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Great game.
No hope at all of promotion with that defence and keeper.
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That...was fucking mince.
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Utterly utterly bonkers.
Going forwards wow. At the back oh dear and Nyland is wank.
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Gibbering heck.
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That was, interesting. But fucking hell, we won't go up without some serious changes at the back
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Entertaining to say the least. If we had a decent GK and a semblance of a back 4 we'd be fine. Thanks, fist-face.
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Fucking insane.
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Grrrrrr. We are, by some distance, the best attacking team in this league. Tonight also shows why we need a new keeper and and at least one centre half
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Well you can't concede 5 at home and expect to win. An absolutely shocking defensive display tonight, good job we can score for fun, but there are limits to that.
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Very positive going forward, desperately poor at the back. Chester really is poor at left centre back, and Conor needs to do his fucking job in the centre.
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As a one off it was fucking ace, football is meant to be entertaining. The defence and keeper were an utter shambles though.
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Did Deakin miss a chance at the end?
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I blame Bruce for that shit defence he’s inherited. Our only option is to outscore the opposition but even 5 is not enough!
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Grrrrrr. We are, by some distance, the best attacking team in this league. Tonight also shows why we need a new keeper and and at least one centre half
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Letting that slip at the end against 10 men was very poor.
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Great game but fuck me January can’t come quick enough
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Keeping and defence were unacceptable tonight.
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Our 6th goal should never have been disallowed lol
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I said in the match thread - Forest's attacks were route one bollocks, and we let 3 in like that, pretty much. The attack are doing their job, but the defenders should be ashamed of themselves.
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The keeper and defence is a disgrace,how can you expect to do well with them clowns. Middlesbrough will tear us to shreds
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Where on earth do you start with that?
Sensational from abraham, McGinn, Bolasie,
Very good from el ghazi, Hutton, tuanzebe and Taylor
Hourihane provided all the defensive midfielder protection of a traffic cone
Chester cost us another goal
Nyland faced five shots and conceded five goals. The last two goals were his fault
I think our offside goal was onside
We've got to sort this defence out though. We've been very lucky of late and we can't keep riding our luck like that
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Bloody entertaining that but my god some terrible defending and awful keeping.
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At 5 - 4 and 10 mins to go against 10 men we started pissing about and they equalize.
Fucking fuming, that game was for the taking and 2 critical points lost.
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Never in doubt. :D
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The defence is utter bollocks and I have defended Nyland plenty on here. No more. That 5th goal was just horrendous defending. He needs to be binned and we need 3 defenders to come in.
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That should shut the noses up, with their idea that they would have won had they gone 2-0 up!
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El Ghazi was good.
Conor needs to provide much more cover and Chester needs to get a grip.
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Absolutely insane game. Brilliant going forward and should have scored 2 or 3 more. Awful defensively, and to concede when they were down to 10 men is unforgivable.
No chance of going up unless some serious work is done on defence and GK in January. Hopefully not too far off top 2 by that point.
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How did we not win that, and more to the point, how did we not lose that.
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Not really sure what to make of that, poor decision making at times, great going forward, wank at the back but entertaining throughout.
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So much to be positive about but so much work to be done and most of that cannot start until Jan.
But we wanted entertainment and we're getting it.
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we only got ourselves to blame for that last goal
against 10 men passing it back fucking about and basically inviting them on to us which was rediculous when you have a man extra
the game is there for the taking but we blew it
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That's entertainment....but it's not goalkeeping.
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We were just so easy to play through
Yes the defence is shit. But the midfield really as offering zero protection.
I got absolutely sick of watching people just waltz past hourihane
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Nyland will rightly get stick but what was in front of him was no better.
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I know we didn't win, but I'm kind of into this new Villa.
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We badly need Bjarni back to actually do the covering work in midfield. Their fifth stemmed from Conor not doing his job.
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Just looked at the stats, Forest only had 5 shots on target.......
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Brilliant and worrying.
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Fuck it, give me a 5-5 over hoping to nick it 1-0 every day of the week. There is not a single side in this league that wants to face us going forwards, i'm convinced we'll stick 7 or 8 past someone this season.
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Embarrassing to be honest. A comedy game showing up every weakness we have in all its glory especially that absolute fucking liability Nyland. Get rid fucking sharpish and take the piss with a bid for Johnstone on Jan 1.
Abraham and Grabban are a class apart from the rest of this league, the rest of our shower of shit can fuck right off especially that invisible twat Hourihane.
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Where on earth do you start with that?
Sensational from abraham, McGinn, Bolasie,
Very good from el ghazi, Hutton, tuanzebe and Taylor
Hourihane provided all the defensive midfielder protection of a traffic cone
Chester cost us another goal
Nyland faced five shots and conceded five goals. The last two goals were his fault
I think our offside goal was onside
We've got to sort this defence out though. We've been very lucky of late and we can't keep riding our luck like that
You must have been unbearable to live with when Potato was manager if that’s how you react after a really good game where we’ve scored 5 goals.
Enjoy the entertainment and forget about the negatives for a bit. You might find you like it.
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Oh and Bruce, you massive ****** leaving us with this defence for 4 months. Twat.
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Nine goals in the space of four days
Work in progress.
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Well we wanted to be entertained! Seems we have that.
Seriously can’t complain. We already know we have shortcomings in defence, and the best way to deal with that is attack, which we did.
Great game - typically I was too ill to go! (& I am virtually never ill!)
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I’m going to be positive here, 26 shots at goal at home, we are definitely on the right track and Dean is the man. The bottom line is that you can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear with the appalling defensive players he’s inherited, especially the goalkeeper who should never wear a Villa shirt again, but I can’t help thinking Jedi I’m front of them might just get us through to January
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Couldn't enjoy a minute of that. Everytime we did do something positive we were deflated again pretty quickly. On top second half but they score long range stunner and our keeper fucked up for last one. We just weren't fated to win tonight and I feel like I did after the Preston game. Lethal going forward but lacking cover at the back. Oh well at least we didn't lose.
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That's entertainment....but it's not goalkeeping.
Yeah, like lights going out and a kick in the balls.
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Seriously, if people can't enjoy a game like that i'm staggered.
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Why oh why did we stop playing at 5-4 up as if the game was done and dusted??
Sam attitude almost cost us against Blues
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So much to be positive about but so much work to be done and most of that cannot start until Jan.
But we wanted entertainment and we're getting it.
I spoke to my old man this afternoon and suggested he watch the Villa/Forest game on the red button on SKY. He grumpily replied "I can't be doing with all this red button crap". I will remind him of that decision tomorrow.
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I used to be a regular on here, but haven’t now for a while because, to be honest, the comments on here are laughable.
We’ve just seen a match finish 5-5 and was really entertaining. Rather than discuss the fantastic attacking play, the majority focus on everything negative. Just enjoy the good things for a change and stop whinging and moaning - things aren’t that bad!
Not that anyone cares, but I think this will be my last visit to this site. 👋
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Just looked at the stats, Forest only had 5 shots on target.......
Don’t take any notice of that - the stats I saw said we had only 4 on target on Sunday & even I could count more than 4.
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I used to be a regular on here, but haven’t now for a while because, to be honest, the comments on here are laughable.
We’ve just seen a match finish 5-5 and was really entertaining. Rather than discuss the fantastic attacking play, the majority focus on everything negative. Just enjoy the good things for a change and stop whinging and moaning - things aren’t that bad!
Not that anyone cares, but I think this will be my last visit to this site. 👋
I hear you. It was similar Sunday.
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Many of us have spent years saying how fucking boring we are, especially under Bruce, 16 goals in 2 games at VP and they still don't enjoy it. Bloody hell.
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Embarrassing to be honest. A comedy game showing up every weakness we have in all its glory especially that absolute fucking liability Nyland. Get rid fucking sharpish and take the piss with a bid for Johnstone on Jan 1.
Abraham and Grabban are a class apart from the rest of this league, the rest of our shower of shit can fuck right off especially that invisible twat Hourihane.
A bit harsh. Can't we pursuade JT to get his kit on for a few games?
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Seriously, if people can't enjoy a game like that i'm staggered.
Agree with that!
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Also how on earth was there only 5 minutes injury time? That was a fucking joke. Should have been at least 7. Add to that the ref blowing up bang on the 5 minutes despite their GK timewasting for about a minute.
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Dean Smith " You can only piss with the cock that you've got", We'll be going up this season, no sweat!
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we only got ourselves to blame for that last goal
against 10 men passing it back fucking about and basically inviting them on to us which was rediculous when you have a man extra
the game is there for the taking but we blew it
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Keeping the ball against ten men when you're winning is fine
It was being so open to a simple ball and the keeper basically being transparent that was the problem
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I used to be a regular on here, but haven’t now for a while because, to be honest, the comments on here are laughable.
We’ve just seen a match finish 5-5 and was really entertaining. Rather than discuss the fantastic attacking play, the majority focus on everything negative. Just enjoy the good things for a change and stop whinging and moaning - things aren’t that bad!
Not that anyone cares, but I think this will be my last visit to this site. 👋
I’m not sure there’s mutual exclusivity here. It was entertaining, with some great attacking play, but it was also horrific from a defensive side. Opinions on both sides are equally valid
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Points dropped. Due to dreadful defending.
Great attacking.
9 points off Norwich and 8 off Leeds still.
With the run of death coming up. And that defence. We will likely concede many more goals.
Bruce has fucked us. Its looking like it will be play offs I think.
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This made me loff
https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1067898048544686080
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You should try the match thread!
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Game had 5-5 written all over it.
Where was Hutton when we needed him to close it out with a 6-4 ? McCafu my arse, said we should have brought Heskey on 2nd half.
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Oh and Bruce, you massive c*** leaving us with this defence for 4 months. Twat.
This. Plus he trailed that fucking keeper for FOUR years!
Anyway, that game was mesmerising, way too many contrasting emotions for a Wednesday night. Stunning, stunning game.
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I know we didn't win, but I'm kind of into this new Villa.
I'm both furious, and in total agreement with this sentiment.
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Don’t get me wrong I enjoyed it, but then I looked at it seriously, you know with the view that if we don’t get promoted this season we really are truly fucked thanks to the decisions of Steve Bruce and co who’ve left us with a comedy defence and a hologram for a goalkeeper.
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I used to be a regular on here, but haven’t now for a while because, to be honest, the comments on here are laughable.
We’ve just seen a match finish 5-5 and was really entertaining. Rather than discuss the fantastic attacking play, the majority focus on everything negative. Just enjoy the good things for a change and stop whinging and moaning - things aren’t that bad!
Not that anyone cares, but I think this will be my last visit to this site. 👋
See you then.
And Gana can be bettered. By any half decent player with a bit of drive.
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Recall Steer from Charlton?
Get JT to persuade Cahill to join us from Chelski?
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Embarrassing to be honest. A comedy game showing up every weakness we have in all its glory especially that absolute fucking liability Nyland. Get rid fucking sharpish and take the piss with a bid for Johnstone on Jan 1.
Abraham and Grabban are a class apart from the rest of this league, the rest of our shower of shit can fuck right off especially that invisible twat Hourihane.
You need to cheer up Jon. Our other 10 players a shower of shit? jeez.
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I know we didn't win, but I'm kind of into this new Villa.
Quite. That had to be preferable to holding on to a nil-nil scoreline!
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Any chance Terry can be named on the weekend?
I'm being half serious.
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Seriously, if people can't enjoy a game like that i'm staggered.
You can enjoy the game but still be angry about us throwing it away at the end.
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Also how on earth was there only 5 minutes injury time? That was a fucking joke. Should have been at least 7. Add to that the ref blowing up bang on the 5 minutes despite their GK timewasting for about a minute.
4 goals, a sending off, a punch up, at least 3 subs, and 2 disallowed goals - one which was actaully in the stoppage time.
It wasn’t one of those days where we wouldn’t have scored til we played til midnight either, especially having 2 disallowed in the last few minutes of the game, but the problem was, a few more minutes could have made it 6-5 either way!
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Reminded me of the 3-3 draw v Preston. Another circus of a game. Very disappointing that we couldn't see it out being a goal and man up with 20 mins to go. Grabban had a great chance just before he scored their equaliser, when Hourihane fell over and ball over the top left Grabban one on one.
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Any chance Terry can be named on the weekend?
I'm being half serious.
I'm assuming to play in goal?
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Smith doesn’t do draws.... unless they’re 5-5.
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Seriously, if people can't enjoy a game like that i'm staggered.
You can enjoy the game but still be angry about us throwing it away at the end.
I was annoyed we didn't win but fuck it, I remember what we were serving up less than 2 months ago with Steve "it's hard to play against 10 men" Bruce in charge so would rather enjoy a game that you rarely ever see.
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Seriously, if people can't enjoy a game like that i'm staggered.
You can enjoy the game but still be angry about us throwing it away at the end.
I was annoyed we didn't win but fuck it, I remember what we were serving up less than 2 months ago with Steve "it's hard to play against 10 men" Bruce in charge so would rather enjoy a game that you rarely ever see.
That's certainly true
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Utterly bonkers but throughly enjoyable. He maybe should have brought on Whelan for Hourihane at half time to tighten us up at bit. It's going to be a mad season.
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Also how on earth was there only 5 minutes injury time? That was a fucking joke. Should have been at least 7. Add to that the ref blowing up bang on the 5 minutes despite their GK timewasting for about a minute.
4 goals, a sending off, a punch up, at least 3 subs, and 2 disallowed goals - one which was actaully in the stoppage time.
It wasn’t one of those days where we wouldn’t have scored til we played til midnight either, especially having 2 disallowed in the last few minutes of the game, but the problem was, a few more minutes could have made it 6-5 either way!
The fracas after the red card was probably 5 minutes on its own. Alan Hutton was on on the verge of delivering a Glasgow kiss to one of their players.
I presume he will miss the Boro game now.
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You'd have to be 60 to remember a Villa scoreline like this, just enjoy that football is entertaining again.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtHt1CwWoAIDucO.jpg)
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What was issue with the elmohamedys /Abraham goal !
Only seen it once why not allowed?!
I also was insensed by the midfield of Hourihane and McGinn.
Mcginn seemed to be walk about and Hourihane has no idea how to move after a pass and was really poor as deep lying midfield .
He was only one in there as mcginn seemed to be too far forward and Hourihane was exposed in middle.
Was annoying as was crying out for Whelan for a balance in middle and a shield.
I certainly don't see those 2 in the middle against boro.
Tammy Abrahams could have had a double hat trick and well played for endeavors of team in attacking intent.
Really should have held on at 5-4 !!
Entertaining fair! what a thriller at the villa.
Some good quality and actually deserved to win that !
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Seriously, if people can't enjoy a game like that i'm staggered.
You can enjoy the game but still be angry about us throwing it away at the end.
I was annoyed we didn't win but fuck it, I remember what we were serving up less than 2 months ago with Steve "it's hard to play against 10 men" Bruce in charge so would rather enjoy a game that you rarely ever see.
This
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Looking back at the goals, even the last one, it's a bit harsh on the keeper.
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What was issue with the elmohamedys /Abraham goal !
Only seen it once why not allowed?!
I also was insensed by the midfield of Hourihane and McGinn.
Mcginn seemed to be walk about and Hourihane has no idea how to move after a pass and was really poor as deep lying midfield .
He was only one in there as mcginn seemed to be too far forward and Hourihane was exposed in middle.
Was annoying as was crying out for Whelan for a balance in middle and a shield.
I certainly don't see those 2 in the middle against boro.
Tammy Abrahams could have had a double hat trick and well played for endeavors of team in attacking intent.
Really should have held on at 5-4 !!
Entertaining fair! what a thriller at the villa.
Some good quality and actually deserved to win that !
I think they Gave Abraham as offisde after Elmo shot, it's the only thing I can think of but I'm not sure it's the right call because it was hard to tell if he was ahead of the ball, pretty tight one I reckon.
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I blame Bruce for not buying another centre half.
I blame Chester for being atrocious all season.
I blame Hourihane for being utterly mince off the ball and offering no protection.
They had 5 fucking shots and scored 5 goals. Utterly ridiculous defending.
Mind you they play with effectively 6 at the back and could have conceded 7 or 8. Sometimes a fever grips a game and the madness spreads.
Stay in touch till January and we'll go.up automatically if we recruit well. The fire power is bonkers. Sadly the defending balances that.
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Just seen the last goal again and yes appalling defending and goalkeeping. Dean said as much in his after match interview so no doubt he will sort it
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https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/competitions/championship/11566355/aston-villa-5-5-nottingham-forest
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Well I personally love us under Smith. Fucking great entertainment.
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Dean Smith post-match https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1067904689692426246
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Thoroughly enjoyable game packed full of end-to-end madness. I'm still scratching my head on how you can get beat so easily at your near post like that but overall a point a piece is a fair result.
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And if anyone would have given me 7 points from Derby away, Blues, then Forest at home I’d have taken.
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I blame Bruce for not buying another centre half.
I blame Chester for being atrocious all season.
I blame Hourihane for being utterly mince off the ball and offering no protection.
They had 5 fucking shots and scored 5 goals. Utterly ridiculous defending.
Mind you they play with effectively 6 at the back and could have conceded 7 or 8. Sometimes a fever grips a game and the madness spreads.
Stay in touch till January and we'll go.up automatically if we recruit well. The fire power is bonkers. Sadly the defending balances that.
Last paragraph sums it up very well.
Easy pickings for spread betting on total goals scored for the last few games but the market makers will surely wise up now.
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Have I missed anything?
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Will need to see the goals again before I judge especially the last one , looks bad keeping at near post but sure if took a nick of AT
Chester dodgy again costing a goal but the CM was hopeless at protecting the defence all game Forrest ran through with the ball and no one covered back or even gave away strategic fouls. Houriane is the weak link ( though McGinn wasn't great and didn't look fit ) as the deepest of the CM he has to cover the defence better and he doesn't.
Great to watch but 2 important points dropped , certainly we can score but if we concede like we have been doing we won't get to the playoffs
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After our years of circling relegation, and 2 seasons watching Steve Bruce, you've got to enjoy that.
I did, we live and learn, on to the next game.
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Nine goals in the space of four days
Work in progress.
Yup.
Plenty of spills and thrills as we progress too. Good times!
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What was issue with the elmohamedys /Abraham goal !
Only seen it once why not allowed?!
I also was insensed by the midfield of Hourihane and McGinn.
Mcginn seemed to be walk about and Hourihane has no idea how to move after a pass and was really poor as deep lying midfield .
He was only one in there as mcginn seemed to be too far forward and Hourihane was exposed in middle.
Was annoying as was crying out for Whelan for a balance in middle and a shield.
I certainly don't see those 2 in the middle against boro.
Tammy Abrahams could have had a double hat trick and well played for endeavors of team in attacking intent.
Really should have held on at 5-4 !!
Entertaining fair! what a thriller at the villa.
Some good quality and actually deserved to win that !
I think they Gave Abraham as offisde after Elmo shot, it's the only thing I can think of but I'm not sure it's the right call because it was hard to tell if he was ahead of the ball, pretty tight one I reckon.
I saw Elmo shouting across to Abraham as if to say it was in if he hadn't touched it but Tammy didn't look offside.
I don't know how I feel if the handball by el ghazi was allowed
Cheers Paul!
Entertaining but frustrating!
Hopeful for the next match.
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Watching it back, Tammy scored with his 2 with his head, one with his right foot, and one with his right bollock.
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First time I've ever seen someone celebrate having a football slammed right at their bollocks.
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What was issue with the elmohamedys /Abraham goal !
Only seen it once why not allowed?!
I also was insensed by the midfield of Hourihane and McGinn.
Mcginn seemed to be walk about and Hourihane has no idea how to move after a pass and was really poor as deep lying midfield .
He was only one in there as mcginn seemed to be too far forward and Hourihane was exposed in middle.
Was annoying as was crying out for Whelan for a balance in middle and a shield.
I certainly don't see those 2 in the middle against boro.
Tammy Abrahams could have had a double hat trick and well played for endeavors of team in attacking intent.
Really should have held on at 5-4 !!
Entertaining fair! what a thriller at the villa.
Some good quality and actually deserved to win that !
I think they Gave Abraham as offisde after Elmo shot, it's the only thing I can think of but I'm not sure it's the right call because it was hard to tell if he was ahead of the ball, pretty tight one I reckon.
I saw Elmo shouting across to Abraham as if to say it was in if he hadn't touched it but Tammy didn't look offside.
I don't know how I feel if the handball by el ghazi was allowed
Cheers Paul!
Entertaining but frustrating!
Hopeful for the next match.
Watching the sky highlights from above he was half a yard off, would be interesting to see what would've happened if he'd not gone for it becase I don't think the defender would've got his foot round to clear it so Elmo is probably right if he did tell him to leave it.
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And actually to keep coming back 0-2, 2-3, 3-4 was unreal and desreves the biggest credit.
To swing that match in our favor after early 2 goals in 6 minutes was remarkable and despite only a point and also being 5-4 up against 10 men it was a credible effort .
Certainly attacking intent is there.
I don't think Forest defending was all that yet sky commentator was going on about villas defence .
We certainly exposed them as forest had been solid so I think that can be applauded.
They beat boro 2-0 away so we showed we can come back
Up the villa!
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Looking back at the goals, even the last one, it's a bit harsh on the keeper.
Not at all. I watched it from upper north. The 4th (i think) was straight at him with no deflection and he had a clear view. Made no attempt at a save. The 5th he got beat at the near post. They had 5 shots on target and he never saved any of them. There's no room for sentiment in football. Well if you want to be successful there isn't. He is absolutely useless. No reflection on Deano but we all know we need a massive overhaul at the back. Starting with a new keeper or two.
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Looking back at the goals, even the last one, it's a bit harsh on the keeper.
Not at all. I watched it from upper north. The 4th (i think) was straight at him with no deflection and he had a clear view. Made no attempt at a save. The 5th he got beat at the near post. They had 5 shots on target and he never saved any of them. There's no room for sentiment in football. Well if you want to be successful there isn't. He is absolutely useless. No reflection on Deano but wall know we need a massive overhaul at the back. Starting with a new keeper or two.
If you see the replay from behind the goal the 4th looks like a mistake by the keeper.
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Forest had only conceded 1 in 6 gales before tonight. Play 4 with a two compressed in front and we ripped them apart at will.
If only going the other way...
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Well, I’m finding it difficult to be overly positive about that.
Yes, we created the chances to get back into it, but to finally get our noses in front and then throw it away against 10 men was poor.
Just after it went 5-4 we then started with the tippy tappy ‘ole’ football, but unfortunately we are no fucking good at it. Why we didn’t try and kill them off is beyond me.
I have defended Nyland up until tonight and thought he was finally finding his feet.
No more. He was shit for their last goal and is far too much of a liability.
Quite pissed off tonight.
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Looking back at the goals, even the last one, it's a bit harsh on the keeper.
Not at all. I watched it from upper north. The 4th (i think) was straight at him with no deflection and he had a clear view. Made no attempt at a save. The 5th he got beat at the near post. They had 5 shots on target and he never saved any of them. There's no room for sentiment in football. Well if you want to be successful there isn't. He is absolutely useless. No reflection on Deano but wall know we need a massive overhaul at the back. Starting with a new keeper or two.
Nothing he could do about the first 3 but I agree, 4th and 5th were really poor. What's really frustrating is that we were superb going forward, if we can fix that balance without sacrificing too much intent we'll have a fantastic 2nd half to the season. I'd also say that we won't come up against many sides with a front 4 with that much pace and that's what did for us.
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Forest had only conceded 1 in 6 gales before tonight. Play 4 with a two compressed in front and we ripped them apart at will.
If only going the other way...
As you said, it became one of those mental games where the terrible defending is infectious. Football equivalent of a batting collapse.
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Just seen the goals on Sky, could only fault Nyland for the last goal, but what a match. I don't think anyone's mentioned[in this thread] El Ghazi's goal, a cracker probably the best of our 5. Maybe he's our new super sub.
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Reactions from the match
0-1 shit
0-2 we’re gonna get tanked
1-2 yeah
2-2 we’re gonna win this
2-3 f**k
3-3 sweet mother of god
3-4 double f**k
4-4 come on ffs
5-4 yeeeeaaaah
5-5 speechless
6-5 screams, then cries
5-5 what just happened
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A bloke traveled over from San Antonio to watch his first ever Villa game. Imagine this being your first game!
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I don't think anyone's mentioned [in this thread] El Ghazi's goal, a cracker probably the best of our 5.
That first touch was a thing of beauty.
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Nyland had no chance for the first 3, the 4th he started to go the wrong way so was wrong footed and the 5th was deflected. He should still have probably done better for the last two but the biggest issue for me was the ease they went through the midfield and defence so often.
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Nyland had no chance for the first 3, the 4th he started to go the wrong way so was wrong footed and the 5th was deflected. He should still have probably done better for the last two but the biggest issue for me was the ease they went through the midfield and defence so often.
Agreed, it was far too easy for them. I was terrified whenever we lost the ball, they sliced through us with barely a challenge.
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Playing with no bite in midfield in front of that defence and keeper you’re asking to concede a few. But then, Whelan looked like a waste of a shirt the other day. Hard to draw any conclusions from all that.
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Forest looked like they'd score every time they ran at us.
Yes the defence was poor (Nyland is terrible and Chester looks an accident waiting to happen if late) but Hourihane repeatedly watched their midfielders run past him.
We desperately need to fix this in January.
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Looking at the disallowed goal (on the video) near the end. If Tammy had not touched it it might still have crossed the line and counted.
Abraham also missed a chance to make it 4-3 just before half time.
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Oh and their number 10 looked useful.
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Looking back on Goals the fact we never got anyone close to Lolly all game was our downfall..,2nd goal Houriane is attracted to ball and lets the runner in behind to score.As bad as defence was ( and GK) Houriane or anyone in that position has to do better
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Hard to know who'll be happier with that. Score two goals and lose your advantage within about ten minutes, but come back twice to draw, or have a player score four after an amazing turnaround. Both defences equally shite and had obviously caught the same virus. On another day that game's settled with a deflected shot through a crowd of players in a drab 1-0, so I'm not going to draw too many conclusions from it.
Nyland though. Man alive.
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I will say that Neil Taylor is getting better and more confident. Infact, today was probably one of his best games.
However, I fail to see what Hourihane brings to the party. For me he is far too lightweight. Yes, the odd free kick is a blinder, but we should expect far, far more from a central midfielder.
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I know we didn't win, but I'm kind of into this new Villa.
And me.
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Well I did predict a draw but I was thinking more 1-1 or 2-2. That was just bonkers, with diabolical defending especially on our part. Smith needs to find a dominant CB pdq in January to go straight in in place of Chester who was poor again tonight, and a proper goal keeper. But 16 goals in 2 home games in the space of 4 days - are we not entertained?!
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After being 2-0 down after just 6 minutes, one would and should be happy to take a draw. Bitterly disappointing thought to have gone 5-4 up and then blow it. We are learning about this side all the time. What we learn tonight is that Hourihane is no defensive midfielder, McGinn is great going forward but is absent defensively (tin hat firmly on head), same as Grealish. We lack any real physicality in front of the defence and I think Smith will sacrifice that to play good football, which we certainly do. One of the issues with the way we play is that McGinn doesn't drop in next to Hourihane, instead, he plays in front of him and the opposition go around the sides. Forest exploited that early on until we adjusted. We need an upgrade of Jedinak for central midfield come January. Cracking game, magic going forward but dreadful defensively.
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Nyland had no chance for the first 3, the 4th he started to go the wrong way so was wrong footed and the 5th was deflected. He should still have probably done better for the last two but the biggest issue for me was the ease they went through the midfield and defence so often.
Couldn’t make the game tonight as had a family commitment, so have only just seen the goals on TV. Might have looked different at the match, but from the TV it looked like the 5th was hit pretty hard at close range, Tuanzebe was blocking his view and it took a deflection. Not really sure what happened with the 4th one, but not sure how much he could have done with the 5th. All that said, I still don’t really rate him.
From the TV, there looked to be a a lot of room between our defence and midfield where our defensive midfielder should have been.
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TBH I'm not that bothered we didn't win tonight. I guess as you get older and see so many dire games season in season out you enjoy the classics when they do randomly pop up.
It was simply a great game from start to finish and one we just weren't destined to win for whatever reason. It happens.
Even the most negative fan on here or elsewhere can see we're on the right path now to the play offs and the football we're playing is a total breath of fresh air compared to past two years. Finally seeing what a good league the championship is.
Have to also say Forest impressed me a lot with how they played. Got a real mix of flair, experience and obviously a goalscorer in Grabban. I didn't even realise they signed Yacob, he's a good player at this level.
They're getting stronger as season goes on so can see them outlasting the likes of Derby and Sheffield United and joining us in the play offs.
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Wow! 1 point for either team having played out a 5-5 like that doesnt seem enough. Being 2 down after 6 minutes I'd have taken a draw, yet that's a game we could and should have won. Delighted to be watching the attacking intent of a Dean Smith team especially when compared with the dirge of bruceball. Unfortunately the shadow of bruce hangs over the club at least till January because of the shambles of a defence/goalkeeping position that he has left behind. We are certainly capable of shipping goals (3 at home to preston, 4 away at sheff utd) so a defensive collapse like tonights should come as no surprise to Villa fans. Smith knows this and I feel he will address the issues in January. Until then he will try to set us up to score more than we will inevitably concede. December should be an interesting month. If Smith can keep us competitive and then use the transfer window well, we may still be in with a shout of promotion one way or the other. UTV
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I enjoyed that enormously...words I haven’t uttered since the Liverpool FA cup semi final.
Not a great result, but very entertaining and a sign of times ahead. Dean will sort this out, we’ve finally got a manager that is doing a proper job, not just picking up a paypacket.
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Not to be negative but we're going nowhere with that defence and keeper. The keeper isn't a kid, he should be near his prime but he's shit. Needs addressing in January.
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I think hourihane was quite good on the ball
But defensively he really offered zero. And against a £13m no 10 that meant they just waltzed through us
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Yes, a win would have been fantastic, but 2 down after 7 mins and I feared the worst. A crazy draw in the end, and prob a fair result, and it highlights the good and downright bad of the team, more than a win would and the team will be better for it.
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Seriously, if people can't enjoy a game like that i'm staggered.
I’m a misery guts. But that was fun. Can’t complain. Just need to shore the defence and we’ll piss this league.
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Looking at the disallowed goal (on the video) near the end. If Tammy had not touched it it might still have crossed the line and counted.
Abraham also missed a chance to make it 4-3 just before half time.
Tammy will be one of those at the end of the season who'd have scored 25 goals and we'll be moaning he should've scored 40. He has that Darren Bent knack of being in the right place in the six yard box.
From just seeing the highlights on Quest I too though the initial shot might've been going in so frustrating he helped it in but he had scored 4 so guess we was just too keen.
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Looking back at the goals, even the last one, it's a bit harsh on the keeper.
Not at all. I watched it from upper north. The 4th (i think) was straight at him with no deflection and he had a clear view. Made no attempt at a save. The 5th he got beat at the near post. They had 5 shots on target and he never saved any of them. There's no room for sentiment in football. Well if you want to be successful there isn't. He is absolutely useless. No reflection on Deano but wall know we need a massive overhaul at the back. Starting with a new keeper or two.
If you see the replay from behind the goal the 4th looks like a mistake by the keeper.
From where I was sitting in the Trinity Road, the 4th looked very bad and how Grabban scored the 5th then only Tuanzebe and Nyland know. The defence or keeper was culpable on all of their goals.
Nyland didn't make one save all night! He flings himself theatrically for shots that are going well wide yet can't move when the ball comes near him.
I'd have probably taken a draw after 6 minutes. Exhilarating going forward but scary at the back.
I was really surprised Smith didn't change it at half time as Hourihane can't play as a shield for the defence and they really need shielding. Get Elmo back at RB and Hutton at LB at least for now.
16 goals in two consecutive home games... strangely not the first time. I remember 16 in 95 (Wimbledon 7-1 followed by Leicester 4-4).
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I think Taylor is playing well. Don't agree he's the problem at all
The problems are the keeper, Chester, hourihane in holding midfield and just generally being so incredibly open at times
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Looking back at the goals, even the last one, it's a bit harsh on the keeper.
Not at all. I watched it from upper north. The 4th (i think) was straight at him with no deflection and he had a clear view. Made no attempt at a save. The 5th he got beat at the near post. They had 5 shots on target and he never saved any of them. There's no room for sentiment in football. Well if you want to be successful there isn't. He is absolutely useless. No reflection on Deano but wall know we need a massive overhaul at the back. Starting with a new keeper or two.
If you see the replay from behind the goal the 4th looks like a mistake by the keeper.
Definitely. I don't see how anyone can draw any other conclusion. A shot from 30 yards straight at your keeper should be dealt with. I haven't had the benefit of seeing the replay but as I said earlier I was in the upper north and in direct line with that shot. It looked a howler to me.
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I didn't know whether to cheer or boo them at HT. Where do you start, with a game like that?
I'm in line with it & I was convinced that Grabban was offside for the first goal. Chester looks half the player, but there's no protection in front & even less behind him. He's not comfortable with the ball. Nyland at fault for the last goal.
But going forward we look great & should have won that game despite our intention to fuck it up.
With any luck we'll be in touch in January & Dean will bring in the players we need.
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Looking back on Goals the fact we never got anyone close to Lolly all game was our downfall..,2nd goal Houriane is attracted to ball and lets the runner in behind to score.As bad as defence was ( and GK) Houriane or anyone in that position has to do better
blame game
1st - Hourihane dives into a tackle in midfield that ends up tripping Chester, but Tuanzebe is beyond belief poor dragged to the ball leaving Grabban in miles of space for a tap in
2nd - Hourihane fails to stay with the runner but again watch Tuanzebe, same error again dragged out of position with Grabban's decoy run, doesnt spot danger behind him until too late,
3rd - No pressure on pass in midfield, Hutton failed to spot runner too late but again Tuanzebe was too far out of position. Between Hutton and Tuanzebe they still should have been able to block that run and/or shot.
4th - Hourihane diabolical, didnt get tight on the shooter and seemed to turn away from the shot. Not sure on keeper either for that one but didnt see a replay from behind goal
5th - Grealish offers token resistance in midfield, good run from Grabban which Tuanzebe tracked well, he simply has to block the shot, Nyland cant be beaten at his near post regardless
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Post-match on WM (https://audioboom.com/posts/7101562-listen-dean-smith-reacts-to-villa-s-5-5-draw-against-nottingham-forest-avfc-utv)
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Just back and all I can say is, fucking hell! That last goal, I was right in line with it and for a so-called international goalkeeper to be beaten like that is just unbelievable. Was he watching the ball at all? We are a very good Championship team and until that defence gets sorted that's what we will remain. I'd have taken the draw after six minutes. The wait goes on for me to see us win at home, not happened for me since we beat Bolton 5-1.
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Apparently this is the first ever 5-5 at VP.
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I think hourihane was quite good on the ball
But defensively he really offered zero. And against a £13m no 10 that meant they just waltzed through us
Thought Whelan did well when he came on, passing was good. Can see him starting on Saturday (hopefully to tempt Pulis into a January bid!)
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Way too critical on tuanzebe
For the first three goals he was left hugely exposed by others. It's hard to defend well when you're that exposed, right throuhh the middle of the side
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Tammy post-match OS https://twitter.com/AVFCOfficial/status/1067918912900206592
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Some very simple made tonight. We can’t keep starting games we have in the last two. If we are serious about the top 2 spots, then this needs sorting very quickly. Wonder what JT was thinking
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We will 100% finish in top 6 and beat West Brom in the play off final. Fact.
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It was a pleasure to be at Villa Park tonight. One of those crazy nights that will live in memory for ever and we will talk about for years to come. Let's forget the defensive issues and just think about how wonderful we are going forward. Love it.
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Way too critical on tuanzebe
For the first three goals he was left hugely exposed by others. It's hard to defend well when you're that exposed, right throuhh the middle of the side
He has no idea where the danger is for all three goals. body position is horrible so doesnt see run coming behind him until too late, first three goals were all scored from the right centre back position. decent holding midfielder might be able to bail him out but there are basic flaws there.
thankfully Smith brought in a proven defensive coach with him, oh wait....
none of our defenders are helped by a thoroughly unbalanced midfield three of Hourihane, McGinn and Grealish.
But the Blues found it very easy to play against our midfield with Whelan in there next to Hourihane and we possibly conceded the same amount of chances.
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Equalled the most goals I’ve seen in a game at Villa Park and that game was as bonkers as this one. Can’t really complain after watching a 5-5 it’s better that the turgid rubbish served up by Bruce. We can’t defend like this with the games coming up we'll get beat comfortably. Just hope we can keep in touch until Jan then sort out that bloody defence.
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I want to get out of this fucking poxy division so forgive me if I am not singing in delight at giving their 10 men a draw with minutes to go.
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Terrible defending. The legacy of Bruce with no defensive cover. No central defenders on the bench to call on at all. Bruce screwed the defence and letting Jed Steer go on loan was equally crazy! We must try and get Cahill back and Heaton in goal come January!
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There’s a school of thought Paul Heaton would be a better option than the total clown we have
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Whereas all of us that found the game entertaining want to stay in division 2 forever. Some choose to take the positives out of watching a once in the history of VP game, never mind a once in a lifetime game. If the next 20 games see us concede 5 each time I doubt anyone will be enjoying it as much.
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There’s a school of thought Paul Heaton would be a better option than the total clown we have
If we bring him in it will take A Little Time.
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Equalled the most goals I’ve seen in a game at Villa Park and that game was as bonkers as this one. Can’t really complain after watching a 5-5 it’s better that the turgid rubbish served up by Bruce. We can’t defend like this with the games coming up we'll get beat comfortably. Just hope we can keep in touch until Jan then sort out that bloody defence.
Yeah I think that's the name of the game now. Our awesome attacking prowess at this level should see us in touch with the top by January. Teams have realised that attacking our ropey defence and powder puff keeper will reap rewards. I trust our new backroom team to address the situation in due course. I make us even money for promotion this season now. But the future is definitely bright for us.
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I want to get out of this fucking poxy division so forgive me if I am not singing in delight at giving their 10 men a draw with minutes to go.
The previous manager will see to that by hardly beating any of the bottom 8.
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Equalled the most goals I’ve seen in a game at Villa Park and that game was as bonkers as this one. Can’t really complain after watching a 5-5 it’s better that the turgid rubbish served up by Bruce. We can’t defend like this with the games coming up we'll get beat comfortably. Just hope we can keep in touch until Jan then sort out that bloody defence.
Yeah I think that's the name of the game now. Our awesome attacking prowess at this level should see us in touch with the top by January. Teams have realised that attacking our ropey defence and powder puff keeper will reap rewards. I trust our new backroom team to address the situation in due course. I make us even money for promotion this season now. But the future is definitely bright for us.
Even money?? No ta mate I’ll take my business to William Hill
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Many of us have spent years saying how fucking boring we are, especially under Bruce, 16 goals in 2 games at VP and they still don't enjoy it. Bloody hell.
While there’s loads to gripe about if this represents the steps forward we’ve taken in such a short period of time under Smith then I cannot wait to see what he can do with a window or two under his belt.
What has been really challenging is that when it comes to closing down games he cannot call on BB or Jedinak and insured needs to bring on Whelan who’s useless. More importantly it now be clear to him who is replaceable. The defenders are playing themselves out of a starting role. Even AT, while Nyland is at fault for the last goal, our CB has to be stronger than that. He is the best of a very poor defence which says it all.
The game was riveting at one end, dire at the other, but you have to excited by the trajectory of the club not 2 months of Bruce had bored us all to near death.
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I thought Whelan was o.k when he came on, passing was good and won his tackles.
Our game management at 5-4 just wasn't good enough. Instantly dropped off, starting conceding silly free kicks and just let Forest pass the ball around which given what they'd created before wasn't a good idea.
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Shame the Norwich and QPR results weren't reversed which would have had us scoring 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 in that order under Dean. Time to hit Pulis for 6.
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Whereas all of us that found the game entertaining want to stay in division 2 forever. Some choose to take the positives out of watching a once in the history of VP game, never mind a once in a lifetime game. If the next 20 games see us concede 5 each time I doubt anyone will be enjoying it as much.
For what it's worth, my post was based on the "that's entertainment" comment of the the post which I quoted, based on the excellent pop tune by beat combo "The Jam".
When SGT came back to VP for his second stint, he said that he would rather lose a game by trying to win it rather than playing for a draw, and I agreed with him.
Following the events of the summer and Steve Bruce's reaction to them, plus the appointment of Dean Smith, we have taken this philosophy to an entirely different level.
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A bloke traveled over from San Antonio to watch his first ever Villa game. Imagine this being your first game!
I imagine you'd want to see the next one! I can't wait! UTV
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Whelan can't play twice a week and Hourihane simply isn't a defensive midfielder, Bruce left the club with dire problems at the back and Smith doesn't have many options until January.
Not seen the replay yet but it seems when we went in front the defence started tapping it around like they did against the unwashed, we should have learnt the lesson we don't have the skill level at the back to do that.
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I thought Whelan was o.k when he came on, passing was good and won his tackles.
Our game management at 5-4 just wasn't good enough. Instantly dropped off, starting conceding silly free kicks and just let Forest pass the ball around which given what they'd created before wasn't a good idea.
My enjoyment stopped when we started dicking around at 5 -4 against 10 men.
That is not the manager that is poor decisions by some of the players.
We need to stop that attitude, it was reminiscent of the Man Ure Van Horseface game.
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I have been saying for weeks that Terry should be encouraged to put his boots on. Axel wouldn't have to work so hard on his own. Is this Spanish keeper any good? Obviously not.
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I have been saying for weeks that Terry should be encouraged to put his boots on. Axel wouldn't have to work so hard on his own. Is this Spanish keeper any good? Obviously not.
He’s Portuguese and no, he’s worse.
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Whelan can't play twice a week and Hourihane simply isn't a defensive midfielder, Bruce left the club with dire problems at the back and Smith doesn't have many options until January.
Not seen the replay yet but it seems when we went in front the defence started tapping it around like they did against the unwashed, we should have learnt the lesson we don't have the skill level at the back to do that.
Worse than that, they were at sea and we had some attacks with options to go forwards and decided on passing backwards and sideways. This encouraged them to press.
We lost possession and inevitably they scored.
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Actually the only surprise and disappointment for me is we were waiting to put AEM on, Forest scored and we still decided to do that subbed. Would've put Hogan on at that point considering we were just hitting crosses at that point.
Guess DS just dosen't think he can recapture his Brentford form when looking at him on the training pitch.
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Some very simple made tonight. We can’t keep starting games we have in the last two. If we are serious about the top 2 spots, then this needs sorting very quickly. Wonder what JT was thinking
I'll have what your having
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Forest impressed me. Going forwards at least. They look dangerous on the break.
Defensively they look shite mind. Which they're not, in the slightest. Which is pleasing for us.
Whelan to start the weekend and Hourihane to drop out.
Forest fans seem to think we're frightening going forwards and will potentially go up automatically.
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Have to say I was also a little surprised by how "low" the attendance was especially after Sunday.
32k for midweek is still pretty good but Forest sold out their allocation so was pretty much the same home attendance for the Bolton game.
Thought it would be 34-35k.
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When was the last time we saw 10 goals at Villa Park?
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Alright Quinto...oh?!
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When was the last time we saw 10 goals at Villa Park?
1993. The whole year. /baddumtish
6-4 v Blackburn is the serious answer.
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As former European Cup winners, Villa and Forest may not be the respective forces they once were, but they put on a show tonight!
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When was the last time we saw 10 goals at Villa Park?
6-4 in the second leg semi against Blackburn in 2010
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I have been pissed off the whole way back. But thinking on it, it was just daft. Like we just wind milled each other in the boxing ring for 12 rounds knocking 7 bells out of each other, but getting up for more.
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10 goals, another 2 disallowed and a red card. I'll wager none of us will ever see a game like that again at VP.
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Hopefully the last time Hourihane pretends to be a defensive midfielder.
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More entertainment in one game than Bruce produced in two years. I'm enjoying watching us again despite the flaky defence. Not sure Nyland deserves all the stick he's getting. Ok he was very poor on the 5th and came out a bit morris dancer for the third but had little chance with the others. Hourihane failed to shadow his man on the first two and Hutton on the third. See also Blues second goal on Sunday. We need BB back pronto for that holding position.
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Maybe we're just two really good sides.
We're not great defensively, we need a keeper and centre half and BB at the base of midfield. But we're not normally that bad.
First time I've seen them, but with their compressed holding players in that low bloc and their stats; they're usually very good defensively. Yet we could have had 7 or 8 without hyperbole.
So maybe we are just the bees knees going forwards and they're top banana away from home on the break.
If we can keep the gap as it is and buy two early January...With this fire power top 6 is a certainty. Play Offs? Less certain.
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More entertainment in one game than Bruce produced in two years. holding position.
I'm thinking of the 5-1 victory over Bristol City and the 4-1 win over Wolves and concluding that's a bit harsh.
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Fuck it, give me a 5-5 over hoping to nick it 1-0 every day of the week. There is not a single side in this league that wants to face us going forwards, i'm convinced we'll stick 7 or 8 past someone this season.
Yeah but with our keeper and defence they'll also stick 7 or 8 past us
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I used to be a regular on here, but haven’t now for a while because, to be honest, the comments on here are laughable.
We’ve just seen a match finish 5-5 and was really entertaining. Rather than discuss the fantastic attacking play, the majority focus on everything negative. Just enjoy the good things for a change and stop whinging and moaning - things aren’t that bad!
Not that anyone cares, but I think this will be my last visit to this site. 👋
I get what you are saying and yes I did find it fun, but on the flip side the people that are complaining have a really good reason to. Drawing 5:5 every game will not get us the where we want / need to be.
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Sure they will Stuart, sure they will.
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More entertainment in one game than Bruce produced in two years. I'm enjoying watching us again despite the flaky defence. Not sure Nyland deserves all the stick he's getting. Ok he was very poor on the 5th and came out a bit morris dancer for the third but had little chance with the others. Hourihane failed to shadow his man on the first two and Hutton on the third. See also Blues second goal on Sunday. We need BB back pronto for that holding position.
He should have saved the 4th goal aswell. He didn't even move but a good keeper saves that.
The 5th goal is criminal from him. The only place Grabban could have scored is where the ball went.
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Just back. What a bonkers game!
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Sure they will Stuart, sure they will.
Like to expand on why you think they won't, just watch tonights game back. When at 5:4 you just knew if they had 1 more shot on target it'd be 5:5 and guess what they did and it was.
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No because you appearing is like Steve Bruce being manager.
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In the interest of fairness regarding the ex boss he did give us John mcginnn , Bolasie , 4 goal Tammy Abrahams and El Ghazi . Granted he left us with pea poor defensive options but he brought us some attacking quality top end.
Let's not forget we scored in every match under the ex manager and the Preston match was a similar chaotic , dramatic display of a football match.
I think moaning about defenders and unbalanced squad is justified but it's also more than reasonable and factually accurate to know old manager brought in entertaining players with attacking impetus.
Anyway I no fan of last manager and enjoy this football however there was a open ness in midfield that needed addressing and the desperation in trying to get the 6th and winner gave reminders of the pushing for goals under bruce in the final minutes
There was even a case today to play Tuanzebe as the dm and put Hutton at centre with Elmo full back or at least as the game wore on.
Ideally we have a cente half , DM, left back and GK at Xmas .
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It's what makes Bruce this season even more bizarre, he brought in quality attack minded players and yet as an ex defender and a conservative manager he woefully neglected the defence.
Difference is we were open and going for it all game whereas under Bruce his negative stuff would often leave us needing a late goal so he'd chuck on a load of attackers and hope.
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if you play Hourihane and McGinn in a midfield two then eventually someone is going to work out neither of them can tackle. We’ve got away with it by working hard to track back but for their effectiveness going forward, neither Kodjia or Balsie provide the support the two in the middle need. Unless we do something about that, it doesn’t matter who plays centre half when the full backs decide to play as out and out wingers.
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We’ve got an exciting but unbalanced side which we’ve seen in good and bad flashes throughout the season but tonight we had it all under a microscope for 90 minutes. The defensive issues aren’t purely down to the back four - they’re clearly not confident in the chaotic keeper they’ve got behind them plus tonight especially, they’re not getting anywhere near enough protection. Think it’s either Hourihane or McGinn, not both - if you’re going to play what looks like a front four with Grealish we need a more solid base.
If we can just stay in touch at the top with a couple of smart additions in January we’ll definitely be ‘there or thereabouts’
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if you play Hourihane and McGinn in a midfield two then eventually someone is going to work out neither of them can tackle. We’ve got away with it by working hard to track back but for their effectiveness going forward, neither Kodjia or Balsie provide the support the two in the middle need. Unless we do something about that, it doesn’t matter who plays centre half when the full backs decide to play as out and out wingers.
It's not really a midfield two. It's hourihane sitting with McGinn and grealish as two 8s
I agree there's not enough protection. But I think this is how Smith plays. Brentford played woods or mceachran there. Hardly defensive midfielders.
The only way to make it work is to have tigerish closing down all over the pitch. But I think that will take time to get right, and isbprobbaly easier on a small pitch like Brentford's
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Question is can we still be in touch at the top after December's tough run of fixtures? The injury list is growing and Jack is on a tightrope with 4 bookings.
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What an entertaining game ... should have won, could have lost and at 2-0 down I would have taken a drawn every day of the week.
Having said that i think it’s pretty clear that the frailties lie defensively with the central midfield and that overloads the defence.
Hourine has had two really poor games in my opinion. His tracking back (or lack of it) cost us a goal on Sunday, and last night he went awol defensively. This leads to the opposition getting at us and into good positions.
Nyland definitely at fault for the fifth (and possibly the fourth) but the Forest attack should have been cut out long before Axel deflected it past Nyland. The failure of a holding midfielder, any midfielder, to cut out simple runs cost us the three points.
However, the entertainment isn’t ending at kick off nowadays as it did so frequently under previous regimes ... long may that continue.
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Fucking hell!
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Well we're scoring more and more goals so I don't see why not.
If we're not playing Adomah then we need Whelan or BB when fit as there is zero protection for the midfield.
Hourihane is desperately poor.
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Brilliant game - long may it continue, the game should of continued until it was decided by next goal the winner!
Abraham - got 4 - could of had 6
It is an understatement to state that the defence needs working on (the 4 of them were all over the place) - Nyland should be dropped for the next game - although I don't blame him for any of the goals last night, he just needs dropping for his own good.
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I'd have preferred a 1-1, as it would have showed the recent relative improvement defensively was continuing. Clearly it isn't and the warning signs were there on Sunday. Fantastic entertainment , but not the way to get out of the division. December is going to define our season. If we are in touching distance of the top six then a few defensive additions should see us into the play off positions at least. I would have played Elmo right and Hutton left last night but Chester/Nyland are so awful at the moment I don't suppose it would have mattered all that much.
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Now I’ve slept on it and I’m able to consider it dispassionately, last night’s result is showing how far we have come under Dean Smith.
Under a lot of our recent managers we’d have been dead and buried after going 2-0 down so early on. That we didn’t give up and kept at it and never gave up is heartening. Yes we need reinforcements in January but Smith is having a massive impact.
If we tighten up at the back and continue to score goals for fun then teams will genuinely fear us.
Out of interest when was the last time we scored 12 goals in 3 games?
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2008.
We put 4 on Bolton, 6 on Derby and 5 on Small Heath. We were lucky in the last one of course.
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2008.
We put 4 on Bolton, 6 on Derby and 5 on Small Heath. We were lucky in the last one of course.
I hope it’s not another 10 years until we do it again. Somehow with this attack I doubt it!
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I didn't go last night due to moving house on Monday and too much to go through! Absolutely gutted!!
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Nyland at fault for the 4th and 5th goals. The long range shot from Lolley for 4th was in the air a long time, yet he seemed transfixed and didn't move at all. The 5th he simply didn't cover the near post correctly, just needed to be a foot over to his left - the ball wouldn't have got through at that angle. He's hopeless and costing us big time. I think Villa have conceded more goals at home (17) than any other team in this League. That is a shocking statistic.
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No the 4th was a joke the amount of time he had to move and shoot.
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Second in the division on goals for, joint nineteenth on goals conceded, says it all really. Thanks Steve.
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Question is can we still be in touch at the top after December's tough run of fixtures? The injury list is growing and Jack is on a tightrope with 4 bookings.
Last night was the deadline for 5 bookings = suspension so Jack survived but Hutton got a fifth and misses Saturday. I think it’s now 10 by the end of Feb for a ban but stand to be corrected on that if someone knows better - couldn’t find the detail on the EFL site
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One of those games we’ll be talking about for years. I’d have preferred a tight 1-0 though.
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No the 4th was a joke the amount of time he had to move and shoot.
True but what was also a joke was Nylands effort or lack of it. Yes Lolley hit it sweet but it was 30 yards out and Nyland had a clear view of it the whole way. It hit the net slightly to the left of the centre of the goal. It was a nice height for the keeper yet he made absolutely no attempt to stop it. He might as well been one of those metal framed keepers they use at the training ground. I'm confused as to why there is even a debate about this. It was a howler from the keeper in my view.
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If we're apportioning blame for goals ,and Nyland is bearing the brunt,then Axel surely is in question for their fifth.
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The Baggies game could turn out the same way.
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Lolley looks a very good player
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2-0 down after 6 minutes to draw 5-5; bewildering game of football! I read on Twitter (I know) that this was the first ever 5-5 draw at Villa Park.
Hourihane annoyed me. He doesn't do enough defensively. Skied a shot on the edge of the box in the second half - (I thought this was his forté?), a few misplaced passes and just general wetness.
Bolasie will probably improve as he gets fitter. I felt despite winning the penalty and getting at least one assist he was a bit inconsistent. Quite a few crosses overhit. Heavy touch on a few occasions. Looking forward to when he's up to speed, as he'll be a monster.
I loved El Ghazi's goal. Instead of just desperately throwing it into the box, we played it more intelligently and picked him out.
Thoroughly enjoying the Dean Smith Revolution. We play to score goals and win games. I can't wait to see how we improve the squad in the upcoming transfer window. Lots of reasons to be very hopeful.
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If we're apportioning blame for goals ,and Nyland is bearing the brunt,then Axel surely is in question for their fifth.
Having now seen the replays it's clear that something has gone wrong with Chester. At fault for 2. Axel shouldn't have let their player get a shot on goal for their 5th and I now think it's harsh to blame the keeper for that one as the deflection off Axel done him. But them having 5 shots on target and not one was stopped is pretty damming evidence imo.
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In fairness to Axel on the fifth, he only let the guy get a shot at the near post at not across the goal. Keeper should never be beaten at his near post. One of those freak results, the fact we should have beaten an inform team after being two down says how far we've come in 6 weeks or so.
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The Baggies game could turn out the same way.
I said this aswell. Two best attacks in the league and two of the worst defences, could easily be a 3-3 or 4-4.
You can get away with playing McGinn and Hourihane at home against poor sides but against anyone decent who break on you then you're asking for trouble. There's zero protection for a poor back four and a goalkeeper who's scared of the ball. Defensive midfielder, centre half and keeper needed in January.
Hourihane is great from set pieces but does nothing in open play. The game passes him by and he offers nothing going forward and can't tackle.
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Hourihane has to play where the manager puts him I would suppose he realises he can't tackle.
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When you turn it around to go 5-4 up with them down to 10 men, you expect to go on and win it. Still, 3 games in to this 6 game tricky period we have 7 from 9 points.
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I’ll bet that Villa fan who came over from Texas with his missus had a blast
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Having slept on it, my conclusions haven't changed. Chester can't play left centre back. He's got no problem passing with his right foot but can only stand on his left. He is low on confidence and because of this and his starting position is unsure and hesitant when he has the ball.
Thought Nyland was improving before tonight but at a loss to understand his statuesque attempt for the fourth and even accepting a deflection, he should of had his near post covered.
Thought SJM was not upto his usual high standard, but probably not 100% fit.
Hourihane is not a defensive midfielder by any stretch of the imagination.
Tammy is awesome, I fully expect him to be our first player to score 20 in a season since Peter Withe. ( suggest he starts wearing a cup in future!)
At two nil down I would have taken a draw but I have walked away from the match feeling that we could and should have won. Thanks Dean Smith, for that, he has brought entertainment and goals back to Villa Park and long may it continue.
Hopefully if he can get the players he would like in January, we can look forward to a very exciting, entertaining and eventful 2019
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Lolley, who ran the game for them, is he the huge Villa fan who used to post on villatalk? I wish he had stayed following the game on their matxh thread instead.
Imagine how we'd feel if FootySkillz was destroying us for Chelsea in the Champs League semi-final in a few years (higher level of footy to match the higher level of forum, obvs).
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How many other 5-5 games have we been involved in? Spurs in 1966. Any others? Also 4 goals in a game? Platt, Stainrod?
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What a mad night and I think it is fruitless trying to make any sense of it. Due to traffic problems I was slightly late and got to the turnstiles just as their second went in then within five minutes of taking my seat it was all square. I am going to take the positives in that after years of travelling down there for night games for little in the way of entertainment we got a game that everyone will be talking about for years. Players falling flat on their backs at the end of a standard league game is a rare sight.
Yes, we were probably too open, that can be worked on, but the attacking talent in this team is a joy to behold. We have now scored 3, 4 and 5 in successive games.
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Midweek attendances are always lower and we know Blues is always a bigger attendance than most. However, there were other factors at play last night.
The cross city line was out of action which left a lot of people with limited transport options. The cross city line is already a nightmare after a night game, so there would also have been loads who could have got there somehow, but would have worried about being stuck for ages afterwards.
Personally, I have the lurgy from hell and would have missed the Blues game on Sunday if it hadn’t been that particular game. I had no voice whatsoever on Monday and have suffered more for it! Last night, in yesterday’s weather, it would have been stupid for me to go & I usually never miss a game. I don’t know if the wider impact was particularly significant, but I do know a lot of people have had this bug.
On one hand watching at home I was really sorry to have missed being there, but on the other, I could barely breathe during that madness at times in the warmth of my living room - so being there probably would have killed me!
(Sorry - was supposed to quote SHQ as that was what I was responding to)
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6 games against boro then, guaranteed.
I’m feeling vaguely positive as well. We scored when behind 4 times. How many times did we take the lead after conceding first under Bruce?
Attacking talent is all well and good but we had that under Bruce and still folded like a cheap tent every time we conceded. The belief in the team is palpable since Smith came in and last night confirms that.
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Were we playing a 0-0-10 formation last night?
In all seriousness a new GK is a must in January!
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when you see every player from both teams drop to the ground at the final whistle you know you have witnessed a cracker .
yes I'm a little gutted we didn't hang on and If Tammy had not have touched the ball I am sure that ball was going into the net to make it 6-5 but boy oh boy I am loving the Smith revolution .
we need BB back soon for DM and January a couple of additions in the right places but we will be going up.
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We will 100% finish in top 6 and beat West Brom in the play off final. Fact.
Yeah. No returnies.
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No because you appearing is like Steve Bruce being manager.
You say no because you can't, Nyland didn't save a single shot last night, that's bad but what is worse is its not the 1st time that's happened to him.
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That's one of those games where you have to just shrug your shoulders and accept it. They happen occasionally though not for us for a long time.
It was enthralling stuff. great attack, poor defence from both sides but an absolute will to win. It's what makes football so much fun.
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I thought Joe Lolley was excellent. Good luck to that kid and hopefully he will be playing for ys soon.
And yes Grabbon also was good.
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What a bizarre game? I wouldn't have missed it for the World even though it was more like basketball! I knew Karanka would come for the draw though :D
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Crazy game last night it was like playing football after school throw jumpers down for goalpost rush back goalie and play until we are told it's time to come in and the game last night resembled those days.
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the difference now is even when we went 2 down after 2 minutes i still thought we could win
that would not have been the case at any time over the last 8 years
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Regarding goals seen at VP, unfortunately didn't see the 11-1 demolition of Charlton in 59, but did see the 8-3 win over Leicester in 62. Bobby Thomson got 3, Derek Dougan 2 and amazingly Gordon Banks was in goal for Leicester.
Regarding history has any Villa player scored a faster hat trick than Tammys in 25 minutes?
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we only got ourselves to blame for that last goal
against 10 men passing it back fucking about and basically inviting them on to us which was rediculous when you have a man extra
the game is there for the taking but we blew it
Absolutely, the majority of our players are not good enough to do neat possession across the back to kill a game off. They started on Sunday and got caught out for the Nose's 2nd goal and I called it last night as soon as it started. When you are as bad as we are at the back, the best form of defence is attack..especially against 10 men.
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When you watch the match highlights or the goal package, look at Hourihane’s ‘challenge’ on Lolley as he hits their 4th.
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When you watch the match highlights or the goal package, look at Hourihane’s ‘challenge’ on Lolley as he hits their 4th.
Hourihane was poor last night generally.
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Didn't he take Chester out for their first as well? Thought he had a very poor game all round
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Perspective is required here: this is the same squad of players that Bruce couldn't get a tune out of and although it is frustrating not to actually win the game the momentum is still with us and it is a breath of fresh air, long may it continue (not defensively of course)! UTV
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When you watch the match highlights or the goal package, look at Hourihane’s ‘challenge’ on Lolley as he hits their 4th.
Hourihane was poor last night generally.
I thought he was ok with his link play and keeping the ball moving but defensively he had a shocker.
Forest were good, they moved the ball quickly and accurately and consistently exposed gaps. They regularly hit long diagonals to the wide man where they tended to overload so fullbacks were turning and facing 2 men. We have to learn from that.
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Didn't he take Chester out for their first as well? Thought he had a very poor game all round
Mcginn I think
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the difference now is even when we went 2 down after 2 minutes i still thought we could win
that would not have been the case at any time over the last 8 years
But we did against West Brom:)
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Absolutely amazing and I’m out of the country again and missed it it’s been said on here already but we really need quality in there if we are to progress to where we want to be and stay there. Having said that I’m so optimistic about the future now and I’m sure we’re on the right track at last
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And I thought it was brilliant the way our fans applauded Grabban when he came off.
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Marks from me after sleeping on it overnight.
Nyland - 3 - not going to repeat what’s been said already, goals 4 and 5 where was he?
Hutton - 5 thought Cash gave him the runaround on occasion and he was partly at fault for the 2nd, kept up the energy in the 2nd half, stupid booking.
Tuanzebe - 5 - some good stuff some really poor stuff particularly letting Grabban get the shot off for the 5th.
Chester - 3 - appalling, seems uncomfortable playing left side, distribution is rubbish and continually gets muscled out of situations. Could he be sacrificed in January?
Taylor - 5 the best of our defenders last night which isn’t saying much but he supported the attack well and his crossing was quite good. That said Lolley got quite a few runs on him which led to goals. Which leads nicely to....
Hourihane - 2 - abysmal. Playing defensive midfield he’s supposed to screen his back 4 and set the tempo of the play. He did neither. There no 10 and Cash/Lolley had the freedom of the park whenever the picked the ball up and ran at the back 4.
McGinn - 6 - obviously not fit but did some good stuff here and there.
Grealish - 7 - nothing sparkling but he’s maturing before our eyes and he’s always a threat and attracting attention away from others.
Bolasie - 7 - good first start and some excellent delivery from wide.
Kodjia - 6 - quiet but contributed
Abraham - 9 MotM - 4 goals could have had 6 and absolutely superb all night.
El Ghazi - 7 - good cameo, was a threat, created and scored a lovely goal.
Whelan - 7 - looked positive and kept the ball moving for the time he was on.
Elmo - 6 - did what was needed at the end of the game
Smith - 7 - attacking wise very good, but he’ll know defence needs work and reinforcements.
All in all a quite amazing night and despite the disappointment in throwing away a win against 10 men plenty to be positive about.
Onwards.....
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When you watch the match highlights or the goal package, look at Hourihane’s ‘challenge’ on Lolley as he hits their 4th.
Hourihane was poor last night generally.
I thought he was ok with his link play and keeping the ball moving but defensively he had a shocker.
Forest were good, they moved the ball quickly and accurately and consistently exposed gaps. They regularly hit long diagonals to the wide man where they tended to overload so fullbacks were turning and facing 2 men. We have to learn from that.
It was all about the speed of their breaks, Hourihane has no recovery pace so if he gets on the wrong side most players will get away from him and the way we play means it's going to happen. Last night they quite clearly targeted that area. Bjarnason to bring on instead of Whelan would've helped massively.
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No because you appearing is like Steve Bruce being manager.
You say no because you can't, Nyland didn't save a single shot last night, that's bad but what is worse is its not the 1st time that's happened to him.
I say no because I'm not fickle.
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I thought Joe Lolley was excellent. Good luck to that kid and hopefully he will be playing for ys soon.
And yes Grabbon also was good.
It's a mystery how Grabban has not played consistently at a higher level. Outstanding player in our division.
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The one thing i keep thinking is, during the last few years i enjoyed the Liverpool Semi Final and the Wolves game, cant remember much more than that. Smith has been here 2 months and I have loved the Derby game, Blues game and this game. That's already more enjoyable Villa games than anyone else has managed in years.
Loving the new Villa.
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The one thing i keep thinking is, during Bruce's time at the club i enjoyed the Liverpool Semi Final and the Wolves game, cant remember much more than that. Smith has been here 2 months and loved the Derby game, Blues game and this game. Thats already more enjoyable Villa games than Bruce managed in years.
Loving the new Villa.
Sherwood was manager for the Liverpool semi. But I take your point. I'd add Blues last season as another enjoyable Bruce game.
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The one thing i keep thinking is, during Bruce's time at the club i enjoyed the Liverpool Semi Final and the Wolves game, cant remember much more than that. Smith has been here 2 months and loved the Derby game, Blues game and this game. Thats already more enjoyable Villa games than Bruce managed in years.
Loving the new Villa.
Sherwood was manager for the Liverpool semi. But I take your point. I'd add Blues last season as another enjoyable Bruce game.
In just over 100 games, under the last regime, entertaining performances and results were few and far between.
Entertaining draws this season were 2-2 at home to Brentford , 3-3 to Preston in the fateful match
Also the 3-2 win against wigan at home with a last minute winner.
The verve of style in attack and football performance was only shown in a few matches of his 100 or so games with a positive result.
The 4-2 away at sheffield Wednesday
The 4-2 Hourihane hat trick home Norwich
5-0 win v Bristol City
4-1 win wolves
There were a few other memorable victories and decent results in a different way too. Effective and efficient.
The performance against Middlesboro away first leg. 1-0
The away win at Sheffield United 1-0 snoddy last gasp win .
And the 2-0 win over Blues at home.
In 2016 Bruce first away match , his second match in charge we won 2-1 win away at Reading with a last min pen.
(1st victory in 11 matches and a first away from home since August 2015!)
And when Brucey came in he was unbeaten for first 7 matches . Memories in a different era.
Under Smith though it's already memorable , fresh and far more accepting and what is needed with the players we have.
I don't really like to compare the two as they are very different approaches.
Rarely did we see the open , expansive football now it just seems part of the natural game.
And of course it's enjoyable!
I'll always be grateful to Bruce in his efforts but he should have moved on end of last season .
I don't really think so much of past and how Bruce would have done things unless it's discussed on here. Or really what it was like as we were similarly grateful to Bruce in steadying the ship and nearly getting us over the line.
Like players at Villa it's time to move on.
And I ,like so many , are far more pleased to have smith in and I have an optimism that haven't felt for a long time .
It's mainly in the met expectation that we are an attacking forward thinking team, visibly seen trying to win football matches , keeping possession .
It's a lot more pleasing having this footballing identity !
Up the villa
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2-0 down after 6 minutes to draw 5-5; bewildering game of football! I read on Twitter (I know) that this was the first ever 5-5 draw at Villa Park.
I'm pretty sure that there havent been too many 5-5 draws anywhere ::)
I seem to remember that there was one game, maybe 10-15 years ago at Villa against Stoke (I think) that it was 2-2 after 11mins and it stayed like that. That one could have been another crazy game.
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2-0 down after 6 minutes to draw 5-5; bewildering game of football! I read on Twitter (I know) that this was the first ever 5-5 draw at Villa Park.
I'm pretty sure that there havent been too many 5-5 draws anywhere ::)
I seem to remember that there was one game, maybe 10-15 years ago at Villa against Stoke (I think) that it was 2-2 after 11mins and it stayed like that. That one could have been another crazy game.
Bolton
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Last night made me think of the Kevin Keegan era at Newcastle, similar strengths and weaknesses! I think Dean will sort the defence out though, we just might have to ride the wave until the January window.
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Other teams will look at us and start to think oh dear how are we going to stop them rather than us thinking about us stopping them
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Just a quick point about Nyland. He tried to stop 3 of Forests 5 with his feet. Why doesnt he try using his hands ?
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2-0 down after 6 minutes to draw 5-5; bewildering game of football! I read on Twitter (I know) that this was the first ever 5-5 draw at Villa Park.
I'm pretty sure that there havent been too many 5-5 draws anywhere ::)
I seem to remember that there was one game, maybe 10-15 years ago at Villa against Stoke (I think) that it was 2-2 after 11mins and it stayed like that. That one could have been another crazy game.
Bolton
Bristol City drew 5-5 with Hull last season and John McGinn played in a 5-5 against Rangers last season.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46385157 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46385157)
I remember the 4-4 v Leicester in 95 (throwing a 4-1 lead away?) and the 4-4 at Chelsea on Boxing day 2007
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2-0 down after 6 minutes to draw 5-5; bewildering game of football! I read on Twitter (I know) that this was the first ever 5-5 draw at Villa Park.
I'm pretty sure that there havent been too many 5-5 draws anywhere ::)
I seem to remember that there was one game, maybe 10-15 years ago at Villa against Stoke (I think) that it was 2-2 after 11mins and it stayed like that. That one could have been another crazy game.
Bolton
Bristol City drew 5-5 with Hull last season and John McGinn played in a 5-5 against Rangers last season.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46385157 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46385157)
I remember the 4-4 v Leicester in 95 (throwing a 4-1 lead away?) and the 4-4 at Chelsea on Boxing day 2007
And the more recent 4-4 with Spurs, again after being miles ahead, and Marlon Fucking Harewood ballsing it up.
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2-0 down after 6 minutes to draw 5-5; bewildering game of football! I read on Twitter (I know) that this was the first ever 5-5 draw at Villa Park.
I'm pretty sure that there havent been too many 5-5 draws anywhere ::)
I seem to remember that there was one game, maybe 10-15 years ago at Villa against Stoke (I think) that it was 2-2 after 11mins and it stayed like that. That one could have been another crazy game.
Bolton
Bristol City drew 5-5 with Hull last season and John McGinn played in a 5-5 against Rangers last season.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46385157 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46385157)
I remember the 4-4 v Leicester in 95 (throwing a 4-1 lead away?) and the 4-4 at Chelsea on Boxing day 2007
We drew 4-4 at Spurs aswell under MON, 4-1 up with about 20 minutes left. We were singing Happy Birthday to you at 4-1 as it was their 125th? anniversary.
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We once lost 5-7 up at Newcastle. Been a few games that have been 6-3 (won and lost) plus 7-3 as well as heavy wins and defeats. Obviously also the 6-4 v Blackburn and the famous 4-6 v Man Utd in the cup. Found another 4-6 this time at home to Derby.
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1930/1931 we had no games that had less than 2 goals scored in them. And finished the season with these league results. 1-4, 5-2, 2-5, 4-6, 2-2, 2-2, 4-3, 4-3. 1-3, 2-0, 3-3, 7-0, 0-2, 5-5, 3-1, 1-1, 8-1, 6-1, 4-0, 4-2, 2-0, 5-1, 1-1, 4-1, 0-5, 4-3, 4-0, 2-0, 4-2, 0-3.
And earlier in the season we had 6-1, 6-1, 4-3, 4-2 wins.
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Have I missed much - on the piss in Fuerteventura
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Didn't he take Chester out for their first as well? Thought he had a very poor game all round
Mcginn I think
Hourihane "tackled" Chester leaving a gaping hole in the defence for the first. He also bottled an attempt to close down Lolley for their 4th. Not his best game.
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No because you appearing is like Steve Bruce being manager.
You say no because you can't, Nyland didn't save a single shot last night, that's bad but what is worse is its not the 1st time that's happened to him.
I say no because I'm not fickle.
Nah you know, we all know Nyland is the worst keeper we've ever had, Sheffield United 0 saves and last night 0 saves and games in between peppered with errors. As I said you say no because you can't
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Extended highlights (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxMpy5D3Oo8)
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Didn't he take Chester out for their first as well? Thought he had a very poor game all round
Mcginn I think
Hourihane "tackled" Chester leaving a gaping hole in the defence for the first. He also bottled an attempt to close down Lolley for their 4th. Not his best game.
Hourihane had a truly dreadful match, he was awful, the game passed him by.
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Didn't he take Chester out for their first as well? Thought he had a very poor game all round
Mcginn I think
Hourihane "tackled" Chester leaving a gaping hole in the defence for the first. He also bottled an attempt to close down Lolley for their 4th. Not his best game.
Hourihane had a truly dreadful match, he was awful, the game passed him by.
Hourihane for me is one of those players who will come up with a special moment every so often
a long range shot, a great free kick goal, a decent cross
but his general football play is not good enough, he just simply isn’t consistent enough he just relies on highlights every few games which in fairness do change games and earn points but overall we need a player who offers a lot more in open play
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He was at fault for first 2 goals . He needlessly challenged and took out chester which left the massive space .
Watch him number 14 not go with the player Lolley waltzed past Taylor
Check the highlights and you can clearly see the run carvalho makes and horihane starts by his side then carvalho just zooms off.
Shocking exposed for lack of pace.
His all round positional play was awful and he goes hiding like there is a national hide and sneek tournament to be won .
He was hardly making himself available as an option and he keeps it's so basic and simple .
I rather have Whelan there as he does the job .
Doesn't take any responsibility and the the way he throws his hands out for the ball rather than screaming for it is infuriating because mostly the play is ahead of him and he's not a great option .
Clearly players don't see him so why he has arms outstretched when they are looking forward is beyond sense.
For me he's frustrating in as much as he has some talent but doesn't move around enough after passing and when chester Tuanzebe Taylor and Hutton were in possession.
Man needs to step up . The last manager said this a few times and I feel Hourihane doesn't dominate the ball, the midfield and the match.
He has a good left foot though despite his wayward attempt when we went looking for 6th
I think Smith having watched that will look to develop him and hopefully he can learn his role and move around into space .
Far far too ineffective both on and off the ball
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An obvious point is that Hourihane is not a defensive midfielder.
I agree with the comments above about not influencing games enough. He reminds me of Hitz - a great shot and scores good goals but rarely has a sustained influence on games
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And I thought it was brilliant the way our fans applauded Grabban when he came off.
And the fact that he also went up to the Holte at the end and applauded himself and then hugged all the Villa boys that were still around the area. There was a lot of respect shown by both sets of players at the end there. They played themselves to a standstill and were out on their feet by the end. That's how it should be.
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Sure they will Stuart, sure they will.
Like to expand on why you think they won't, just watch tonights game back. When at 5:4 you just knew if they had 1 more shot on target it'd be 5:5 and guess what they did and it was.
Forest are a very good team and they just exploited the acres of space we gave them 30 yards from goal very well.
Give that space to likes of Bolton and Rotherham and they simply can't as we saw in the recent games.
It was just a freak one off game, we've shown plenty of times recently that we can outscore many teams at this level no problem.
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An obvious point is that Hourihane is not a defensive midfielder.
I agree with the comments above about not influencing games enough. He reminds me of Hitz - a great shot and scores good goals but rarely has a sustained influence on games
He was box to box at Barnsley but McGinn is just better at that role. Think it's just a case of Dean wants the midfield more on a front foot so will play all the midfielders with that instinct from the start.
Think if Bjarni was fit he'd have played the DM role last night. Hourihane will go back to being a squad player after January I think.
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I wonder if Smith will try and use one of our youth in the role that Woods had at Brentford eventually, the Irish lad comes to mind.
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I wonder if Smith will try and use one of our youth in the role that Woods had at Brentford eventually, the Irish lad comes to mind.
I think so, Doyle-Hayes was on the bench last night and I suspect would've been given 25-30 minutes if the game hadn't been so mad (O'Hare as well). I think both of them will get game time over the next month or so (especially during the christmas games) I think Jack Clarke might get a chance as well because he's another who has been moved away from the U23 squad in the last few weeks.
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2-0 down after 6 minutes to draw 5-5; bewildering game of football! I read on Twitter (I know) that this was the first ever 5-5 draw at Villa Park.
I'm pretty sure that there havent been too many 5-5 draws anywhere ::)
I seem to remember that there was one game, maybe 10-15 years ago at Villa against Stoke (I think) that it was 2-2 after 11mins and it stayed like that. That one could have been another crazy game.
Bolton
Bristol City drew 5-5 with Hull last season and John McGinn played in a 5-5 against Rangers last season.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46385157 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46385157)
I remember the 4-4 v Leicester in 95 (throwing a 4-1 lead away?) and the 4-4 at Chelsea on Boxing day 2007
We drew 4-4 at Spurs aswell under MON, 4-1 up with about 20 minutes left. We were singing Happy Birthday to you at 4-1 as it was their 125th? anniversary.
Well I said 5-5 draw not 4-4s ::) . And the bbc have done a piece about 5-5 draws,
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46385157
so they seem to be more common than 1-1s its seems :P
And thanks for correcting my memory about the Bolton 2-2 game :D
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The one thing i keep thinking is, during Bruce's time at the club i enjoyed the Liverpool Semi Final and the Wolves game, cant remember much more than that. Smith has been here 2 months and loved the Derby game, Blues game and this game. Thats already more enjoyable Villa games than Bruce managed in years.
Loving the new Villa.
Sherwood was manager for the Liverpool semi. But I take your point. I'd add Blues last season as another enjoyable Bruce game.
In just over 100 games, under the last regime, entertaining performances and results were few and far between.
Entertaining draws this season were 2-2 at home to Brentford , 3-3 to Preston in the fateful match
Also the 3-2 win against wigan at home with a last minute winner.
The verve of style in attack and football performance was only shown in a few matches of his 100 or so games with a positive result.
The 4-2 away at sheffield Wednesday
The 4-2 Hourihane hat trick home Norwich
5-0 win v Bristol City
4-1 win wolves
There were a few other memorable victories and decent results in a different way too. Effective and efficient.
The performance against Middlesboro away first leg. 1-0
The away win at Sheffield United 1-0 snoddy last gasp win .
And the 2-0 win over Blues at home.
In 2016 Bruce first away match , his second match in charge we won 2-1 win away at Reading with a last min pen.
(1st victory in 11 matches and a first away from home since August 2015!)
And when Brucey came in he was unbeaten for first 7 matches . Memories in a different era.
Under Smith though it's already memorable , fresh and far more accepting and what is needed with the players we have.
I don't really like to compare the two as they are very different approaches.
Rarely did we see the open , expansive football now it just seems part of the natural game.
And of course it's enjoyable!
I'll always be grateful to Bruce in his efforts but he should have moved on end of last season .
I don't really think so much of past and how Bruce would have done things unless it's discussed on here. Or really what it was like as we were similarly grateful to Bruce in steadying the ship and nearly getting us over the line.
Like players at Villa it's time to move on.
And I ,like so many , are far more pleased to have smith in and I have an optimism that haven't felt for a long time .
It's mainly in the met expectation that we are an attacking forward thinking team, visibly seen trying to win football matches , keeping possession .
It's a lot more pleasing having this footballing identity !
Up the villa
Good post Footy
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1930/1931 we had no games that had less than 2 goals scored in them. And finished the season with these league results. 1-4, 5-2, 2-5, 4-6, 2-2, 2-2, 4-3, 4-3. 1-3, 2-0, 3-3, 7-0, 0-2, 5-5, 3-1, 1-1, 8-1, 6-1, 4-0, 4-2, 2-0, 5-1, 1-1, 4-1, 0-5, 4-3, 4-0, 2-0, 4-2, 0-3.
And earlier in the season we had 6-1, 6-1, 4-3, 4-2 wins.
hope we bloody won the league with those results.
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Finished second behind Arsenal, but we set the record for most league goals in a top flight season in this country.
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After this memorable game, we walked down behind the Witton Lane Stand just as the Forest fans were coming out, belting out some anti-Derby songs, (they play each other soon and I'm guessing the game will be well worth seeing).
There was no suggestion of trouble, though segregation was minimal. We were making our way by the North Stand gates when this Forest fan said to his mate that the Villa support, "was pathetic. They only made a noise when their team scored."
So that'll be most of the match, then.
I wouldn't mind, but if you've ever been up to the Shitty Ground, you'll know it would make a great prospective World HQ for the Noise Abatement Society.
I passed this info on in a loud voice, but I don't think he heard me.
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After this memorable game, we walked down behind the Witton Lane Stand just as the Forest fans were coming out, belting out some anti-Derby songs, (they play each other soon and I'm guessing the game will be well worth seeing).
There was no suggestion of trouble, though segregation was minimal. We were making our way by the North Stand gates when this Forest fan said to his mate that the Villa support, "was pathetic. They only made a noise when their team scored."
So that'll be most of the match, then.
I wouldn't mind, but if you've ever been up to the Shitty Ground, you'll know it would make a great prospective World HQ for the Noise Abatement Society.
I passed this info on in a loud voice, but I don't think he heard me.
We had a couple of strange away supports during that week. Apparently we celebrate for too long when we score against B’Lose as well. What’s that supposed to mean?
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After this memorable game, we walked down behind the Witton Lane Stand just as the Forest fans were coming out, belting out some anti-Derby songs, (they play each other soon and I'm guessing the game will be well worth seeing).
There was no suggestion of trouble, though segregation was minimal. We were making our way by the North Stand gates when this Forest fan said to his mate that the Villa support, "was pathetic. They only made a noise when their team scored."
So that'll be most of the match, then.
I wouldn't mind, but if you've ever been up to the Shitty Ground, you'll know it would make a great prospective World HQ for the Noise Abatement Society.
I passed this info on in a loud voice, but I don't think he heard me.
We had a couple of strange away supports during that week. Apparently we celebrate for too long when we score against B’Lose as well. What’s that supposed to mean?
That's a bit rich given that the Noses are still celebrating goals they scored against us fifteen years ago.